Marriage Counselor & Sex Therapist Dr LIz

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, guys, it's Pete for Beef Anxiety here. Welcome in
today's episode. I appreciate all being here so much. Let's
talk about a few things real quick. The pe for
so Anxiety Team anxiety Facebook group. Are you a part
of it?

Speaker 2 (00:12):
You're not?

Speaker 1 (00:13):
What are you waiting for? The links out here in
the description now below, or go to Facebook and search
pe for so anxiety, then look for the team Anxiety
team page and joining today. Why on you can join
the help it'll be great, Like right now, hurry up,
stop it doing paucess video, go do around. But anyways,
let's also talk about the pe for Anxiety YouTube page.
You guys, if you're here right now, you're probably following
it most likely. If not, head on over there subscribe

(00:35):
fu shure I don't like in comment on the videos
and let me know because all that suff really helps, guys,
I really appreciate it and help me break the stigma
that mental health is talked about enough. But anyways, guys,
let's get in today's episode. I'll be all have a
great one. Thank you so much again, and as always say,
don't ask your day is ask how your mental health
is today?

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Guys, welcome to an exciety episode of Pete for Anxiety.
My guest today is a marriage therapist, sex therapist, and
a fellow podcast She's trained in working with couples and
the impact of trauma, including combat, sexual trauma, relationship violence,
and PTSD. Please welcome in the host of the Communication
and connect podcasts from Military Relationships, The One the Only Liz.

(01:13):
How you doing, Liz, Hi.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
I'm doing great. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
I'm so glad you hear this. Wy did you give
for me a little bit more down about yourself and
then we'll get into our conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah, happy too. So I think it's always nice to
let people know that I'm a military spouse and my
husband is in the Navy. He's actually currently deployed right now.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
For us.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
Thank you. I I come from a dual military family,
and I know one of the things that we were
talking about briefly was sort of what led me to
marriage counseling, and really I think it was my own
parents' relationships. So military life had a as it does

(01:59):
for every military couple, had a huge impact on their relationship,
and that really set me down a whole path of
trying to figure out, like what is it. What's the
science behind relationships that make relationships work? The last a
long time. So now now I still practice, and I

(02:23):
work mostly with couples, and I also have a training
clinic in Virginia. We have offices in Virginia Beach, Virginia
and in Fairfax where we train therapists on working with
couples using a very specific modality called emotionally focused therapy. So,

(02:44):
and most of our clients are military and vettering couples,
so it's really quite exciting that we're growing.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
That's awesome though, I mean especially the military ones, you know,
because a lot of times when people get to play,
such as your husband, it's rough on that spouse. Man,
she's stuck hereed handling these things, doesn't know something goes on. Obviously,
she's just start panicking because she doesn't know what's going on.
She just knows what she's hearing, you know, and then
she's waiting for communication and things like that. So it's
got to be stressful though with him there, you know,

(03:12):
and then you know hearing these things are happening somewhere
near where he's at, and you're just like, well, man,
is he okay? You know? And then you don't hear
anything right away, you know, it's got to be stressful.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, yes, I mean I try not to get too
into the news.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah because of that. Yeah, yeah, I get that completely though.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah. Of course other people will will still, you know,
send me messages on Facebook or text me and they're like, oh,
to do is your husband okay? And but I think,
thankfully my husband is. I'm not too worried. He's not
going to be like in a in the front lines
of a combat situation that would be way more stressful.

(03:52):
I know so many military spouses who have more of
a situation like that based off of their their partner's job.
But it's I think the thing that impacts spouses a
lot is actually the depression, like the loneliness and that

(04:14):
is there. It's they call it military spouse deployment depression
because it's so common for military spouses to feel depressed
and have more anxiety symptoms too. But really the depression
hits many spouses during the deployment period.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
So let's let's talk about that a little bit. So
in that situation, what are some things they can do,
you know, like what kind of things could you know, say,
somebody may be dealing with these things that hasn't seen
somebody you know can maybe maybe you can throw them
a little couple tips, like, hey, listen, these are some
things you should try and do because I know it's
it's hard, you know, and all that kind of stuff,
but you know, we got you here right now. This
is your area that's time to shine form, you know.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, well there are there's a full range of like
of many sort of skills and things that you can
do to help with depression. Of course, I would always
recommend that somebody go to therapy, getting connected with other
military spouses who are going through the same thing, whether

(05:16):
that's a support group, a therapy group, or people who
are connected to like the like the squadron that your
spouse is associated with. Having other people that are going
through the same thing is always very helpful. Having things

(05:39):
to look forward to, so planning trips to go see
friends or family, or to go to a concert, or
to go you know, go do whatever, some sort of
fun thing to look forward to. Having those planned sporadically
throughout the months that your partner has gone those help

(06:01):
getting into a routine. Of course, exercise like uh, it
has always been shown to be like, across many types
of situations where you might experience depression, exercises is consistently
something that helps regulate mood, so things like be really helpful.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah, I mean that could make sense though. I mean,
you know, exercise always helps everybody, and you get up,
kind of get moving, you know, keep your mind busy.
You know, well you do a podcast, so you know,
like doing something like that too, you know, it keeps
you busy, just keep you kind of going and things
like that too.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
The busyness helps.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, oh I bet it does. Yeah, especially especially running
a podcast. You know what it's like for you know,
trying to run your own on your side and everything
like that and things of that too. So you know
that that was where I'm lee my next question too,
it's like your podcast, So when did you start it exactly?
I'm really curious. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:55):
I started my podcast, the Communicate and Connect podcast in
twenty twenty. It was a COVID project actually, so it
was like, you know, everyone was home. I was working
less because at the very beginning I had most of
my clients were in person, and we all thought, you know,

(07:15):
this is gonna be a couple of weeks, you know,
and so everybody was canceling sessions until we could come
back in person, and then when that didn't happen, we
switched to online. But during that period, I was like,
what do I do with my time? I guess I'll
start a podcast, And so it's been going for several

(07:39):
years now, which is kind of exciting, and we really
do focus it. It has a lot of information about
general relationship topics and things that could help couples in general,
but we do try to focus it for military and
veteran couples and addressing some of the unique, the unique

(08:00):
aspects of what they're experiencing.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah speak speaking of couples. You know, I know A
big one I noticed a lot of couples is they
don't know how to communicate. Why is that? Yeah, Like
you know what I'm saying, Like, like when they do
have a conversation, though, it's like, like the best way
to describe is like it feels like you're getting like
when you start having those honest conversations as your partner,
it feels like a lot of times people just want

(08:25):
to go to attack each other. But that's not the point.
The point is that you're having to have an honest
conversation about where you both are at, you know, and
stop me if I'm wrong somewhere there. But that's what
it feels like a lot of them go for like
they're getting ready to go for the throat man. They're
going to war at this point. It is. It shouldn't
be like that. You're you're not asking for the other
person to bring you down. You're just trying to understand
what their their thoughts are on their side of the table,

(08:47):
you know, and sometimes you all may not link up,
and that makes sense, you know, it happens. It's okay
to me because I've been through it myself. I've had
an honest conversation my wife. It was not fun, but
I mean it had to happen, like you know what
I mean. It's sometimes you just got to have them
and understand at the end of the day, what you're
looking for is you're just you're looking to better understand
where each other's at on each side of me, not
sit there and attack each other. A may that right

(09:08):
on that one.

Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yes, And some of it is like communication skills that
were just never learned. Many people grow up like so
many couples that come into couples counseling with me, I'll
ask them like, well, how did your parents fight? You know,
what did you see about and learn from the relationships

(09:32):
around you about how to navigate conflict, how to negotiate
and come to a compromise together, how to repair after
a conflict. And so many of them tell me I
never saw any of it, like their parents did it privately,
or they didn't do it at all, they just stayed silent.
So it's just sometimes these sorts of skills just didn't

(09:56):
get learned or modeled for them from other people. But
I think the the thing that I like to focus
more on than just skills is that when it's my partner,
because they're so important to me, they trigger difficult emotional

(10:16):
places and old emotional wounds that I have, And that
just comes with loving someone. There's no way to prevent it.
There's nothing wrong with anybody that that happens.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
It is.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Maybe supposed to happen because the person matters.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
So for example, like I was, I'm thinking about a
conversation recently around like oh, you forgot to pick up
the milk. This this is the topic, and it's like, oh,
it's milk. Why are we fighting about milk, right, but
you know, Partner one comes home, Partner two is like, oh,

(10:59):
did you get the milk? Partner one says, oh, gosh,
here I failed. I don't want my partner to see
me as failing. And then there's a little defensiveness like, no,
I forgot it. And then the other partner says inside themselves, well,
you know, why did you forget? Like I only asked

(11:20):
you one thing, Like I did all of this stuff
at the house. You couldn't just get milk, you know,
like you must not care. I'm not even on your
mind to remember something that I'm asking for.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
And then it's that little thing a triggers It's like
the milk, you know. It's just like y'all start arguing
about things and it's like is it really worth it?
At that point it's like no, but I could see
where I could. I could see that though. You're like,
you're doing all these things, but all I asked you
is one thing. It is kind of like what's that
movie called The Breakup where Vince Bond and Jenniffany Samera.
They're talking about the lemons that she's so he's not

(11:55):
really seeing the point of the conversation goes, I got
your lemons. She goes, yeah, you got three. I needed
twelve of them there for us to people the centerpiece.
And he's just like, okay, yeah, yeah, whatever, you know
what I mean, Like, that's what I get the first time.
Thinking when you say that, the whole milk thing, I'm
just like, oh, okay, here we go. We're fighting. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
No, I love that that clip. I will often show
that clip to couples because it's such a good a
good visual of like what happens to all of us.
That it's not about the lemons, it's not about the milk.
Will while that is the thing that starts starts at all, right,

(12:31):
it's actually about do you care for me? Do you
have my back? Do you accept me for who I am?
Am I valued as a person? Here, am I scene
for what I contribute in my positive good qualities. There's
all of this other h important things that we all

(12:54):
need in relationships. We all need to be loved, we
all need to be seen for who we are, these
aspects when those are in doubt from something as small
as lemons or milk, that is what really gets triggering
for people in relationships and how to then switch the

(13:16):
conversation from milk or lemons to being a conversation of
you know, hey, I'm getting a little triggered right here.
I really need to know that you see how much
I do actually contribute to this relationship, or I'm getting
a bit triggered here. I need to know that you

(13:37):
do think about me, that when I say I need something,
that that is a priority to you, that I'm not
just the last thing on your list. So and that's
where couples really struggle because that's such a vulnerable thing
to say.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah. I get that though, too, because like when my
wife asked me to do something, she'll may come and
sometimes that I tend to take on too much, Like
I'll say I'll do this, I'll do that to this
and that, and then I don't get them. And then
she comes back over and goes, well, you said you're
going to take care of this, you know. And it's
just that little thing that just drives you us because
it's like she's just jabbing at you, but she's not wrong.
You said you're going to take care of these things,

(14:12):
so you need to take care of them to stop trying,
you know. And that's the problem I try to help her,
you know, because a lot of times, you know, she's
tired when she gets home work, and I'm usually you know,
I work nice, so I work opposite as she does.
So I'm home usually during the day when I'm doing
like my recordings this show, and then after that I
have all that time to do other stuff. So I
tried to get things done around there because I know
she appreciates it. She doesn't have to tell me, but

(14:34):
I know it'll make her feel better when she comes home,
so she'll be able to ask relax because she doesn't
like to relax. She's very stubborn when it comes to
that kind of thing. So if not, she'll try to
do all these other things, you know, And and when
you finally figure out the master key to how to
do the way they want it to done, then you're
just like, oh, yeah, here we go. There's a big victory,
which you know that's hard enough in itself, you know,
because she's she's very eighty, she's very very what is it,

(14:57):
I'm trying to think of what she's very uh, very
strict when it comes to her cleaning procedures. If you
don't do certain things, you know, she'll just I've been
trying to teach you these things. I'm like, yeah, no,
I'm hardheaded, so I don't learn it. So but when
you finally get it, then it's like, all right, now
I know exactly what you mean. And she's like, well
that's what I'm trying to say the whole time. Yeah,
I know. Thanks, we're you know, we think at a

(15:18):
different level on things. I gotcha, thanks, you know what
I mean. It's just yeah, it makes me laugh though,
I mean because it's it's like we I think that's
our strongest things that we tend to communicate on everything though,
And it's weird because I wasn't used to that though,
Like when my Axe and I all the time. She's
a very big narcissist. She'd like she gaslight me and
things like that too, you know. But it was the thing,

(15:38):
the key thing that her was always keep me in
a state of constant panic because that way she could
control the situation. And I'm not thinking clear, so she
keep me constantly agitated about things, you know. And then
I wasn't sleeping much. I was alcohol was involved, and yeah,
it gets you know, it gets crazy from there, obviously,
you know what I'm saying, and that's it just breaks down.

Speaker 3 (15:59):
Like and I think what what you're kind of alluding
to a little bit in what you're saying is how
it can spiral and get worse and worse and worse
and worse. And this is really why it's so important
for couples to be learning these skills in the very beginning,
like while they're dating. Premarital couples counseling, like in those

(16:22):
first few years of marriage, because that is the time
that we all are building our habits in relationships and
once like there, there's some research that indicates that couples
don't come to couples counseling until there's been six years

(16:44):
of problems in the relationship. And at that point, if
you have six years of relationship problems there, you're usually
coming in in a crisis like are we breaking up?
Are we divorcing? Is there any hope here? And then
we have to do six years of negative interactions between
the two of you, you know. So when couples can

(17:07):
have a proactive approach, really be intentional in trying to
learn skills at the very beginning, then that can really
help them be more successful and prevent some of the
like really vicious spirals that can happen.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah. But now my question that is why wait they
wait six years? I don't get it. Is it just
because people are that afraid to go to therapy because
they think that's the endlb all. I mean, I don't
I don't know why you would wait so long, you
know what I mean, Like, if you start having a
lot of problems after like a year, I would think, Okay,
maybe we need to figure out what the issue is.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
Yeah, that is a great question. I don't know that
I have an answer to that. I think that it's
common for one person in the relationship to want to
go to counseling and the other person to not. And
usually the person who doesn't want to go is can
learned about being blamed, you know, being being blamed as
the problem, and that should not happen in couples counseling.

(18:10):
I'll say, like, if you are with a couple's counselor
and one person is like being ganged up on and
seen as the problem for all of the relationship stuff,
like ninety nine point nine percent, that is not the case.
It's just that we're stuck in this negative communication loop
where we're unintentionally emotionally triggering each other. And that is

(18:36):
something that we the two people together are doing, and
the two people together can find a way out of.
But it is very scary to go in and feel like,
oh gosh, my partner is probably going to blame me.
Is the therapist going to blame me? Is anyone going
to see my side of it?

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (18:59):
So that something I always talk to people about is
like it should feel like the therapist is pretty neutral
between the two of you that they're working on behalf
of the relationship and not either not one partner over
the other.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah. Yeah, it makes sense. So I could see that
though you go in there and a lot of times,
I bet it's the males on their side, the ones
always like, oh, we don't need to talk about these
problems or whatever, you know, because every time you see
all these movies, you know, that's always what they portray.
Its always the dad's like, yeah, we don't need to
talk about these problems or whatever, you know. And you
the one I think of the most is what is
that one? I have a time I can't think of

(19:39):
a male come back to me. But you know, it's
like it's always how it's always portrased that male is
always the one that doesn't want to talk about the problems.
Every time he's just like, yeah, you know, no, you know,
but you could feel the tension in the room, like
you know, and things like that to you. And my
parents they fought all the time, like my dad and
momus screaming out about the craziest shit possible, you know.
Sometimes it was about sex itself, and I'm just like,

(19:59):
I don't want to these are my parents. I don't
want to hear y'all talking your personal business from behind
closed doors, like come on now, you know. And then
when they split up, then it was the whole okay
one badgering the other one kind of thing, and it
was just like, you know, we don't need to do that.
There's no need for that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yes, that goes back to the relationship modeling, right like,
if if they didn't have parents who did everything behind
closed doors, that what you're talking about is also the
other thing that's really common is that they would see
a lot of fighting and never a way to do
it constructively or in a way that repaired things. I've

(20:43):
had a lot of people say, you know, I never
nobody ever said sorry, yeah, like it was always you know,
my way is the right way, and nobody could ever apologize.
And so then either people end up growing up thinking like, oh,
this is the norm, this is how, this is how

(21:03):
you handle conflict, and even if we're horrible to each other,
it'll just be fine the next day, you know, And
then they get in relationships and they're like, oh, my
partner isn't just okay with that the next day, right, you.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Know, Or you get that toxic relationship going because they
think that's what they thought relationships should be like, and
then when they get into an actual that isn't then
it's like, oh, hold on, wait a minute, this isn't
something new. I don't know what this is. Man, I
like this too much. This guy's treating me nice. When
when's it? You know? That always that constant thought of
doubt and he'll be like, you know what I mean,
that's the constant thing that will constantly happen. Though too

(21:37):
it's like you start freaking out like, okay, well she's
gonna hit the fan eventually. What's going to be the
trigger point that this person's going to do whatever toxic
behavior my exs used to do. Kind of thing, and
I think that was the hardest part for me though
after fifteen years, was like I had to realize that,
you know, my wife wasn't the same person, Like she
didn't do the same things my ex did. But it
was like she understood that though, which was great. But

(21:58):
some partners don't get that though. It's like, you know,
once you're yeah, you've gone through that for so long,
it's like, this is what you're used to and you know,
and she'll call me out on some of my stuff
I do to myself, you know, but it's like she
was so understanding though, like a lot of the stuff
that happened, and you know, and it's great, but not
everybody's fortunate to have that though, you know, and it's yeah,
it sucks for a lot of people. I'm sorry, but

(22:18):
I mean it does suck. It's really bad for a
lot of them because some people don't understand that. Like
when when they deal with that for so long, then
you get into a relationship where the actual persons actually
supportive what you do and it doesn't do the things
that they were doing. It it's strange to them because
they don't know how to respond to those behaviors.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yes, very common. You know, we're all like our our
nervous systems as humans like we are, you know, I
guess our programming is to look for patterns, Yeah, and
to see like what what is the pattern? What can
I learn to expect in terms of how people are

(22:54):
going to treat me? And then how can I prepare
myself to navigate how people will try me? And especially
if I was treated one way in my family growing
up and then that was repeated in my romantic relationships
or my friendships, It's like, really ingrained, this is how

(23:14):
I'm going to be treated, and so if I get
someone who doesn't treat me that way, it is very
hard to learn to navigate that. You're almost in like
a little bit of a hypervigilance on the lookout for,
like when's the shoe gonna drop? This can't possibly be
really well.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
I can tell you I'm one hundred percent I've had
that happen like that. It was like you're waiting for
time to go bad, or you like you're the cause
of the conflictuse You're like you're so used to having
to argue all the time about things, you know, and
it's just like they're not giving in the argument. So
then you're confused because you're like, well, I'm getting mad.
They're not getting mad too with me. This is it's
not normal. What the hell's going on here? You know?
And it's like I think that was the hardest part though.

(23:55):
It was like you, like I said, you had to
get to that point where you're like, this person doesn't
do the same thing. You have to keep telling yourself
that this isn't the same person as before, you know,
And like I said, luckily she was understanding because I
was just completely a mess after that whole thing went down,
you know, and I started stayed away from like dating
and anything like that for like five years at least
because I'm just like I'm just so messed up, you know,

(24:17):
in general. And it was just it was just hard,
you know, because like I couldn't accept the trust because
she cheated on me, So then the trust is gone.
So now I'm like freaking out, you know, everything else,
My anxiety goes heighten like that cat and the complete
stance like that. You know, I'm going like that every
time something happened, you know. So yes, so.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
Everything you're saying sounds normal to me, and the normal
ways that we then learn that we need to protect ourselves.
That for not necessarily that relationships are always physically unsafe.
That's like a whole nother sort of conversation, But are

(24:57):
are they emotionally safe? Can't am I emotionally safe in
this relationship to share my thoughts, my feelings, to be myself,
to be in like a relaxed state, or am I
walking on eggshells? And yeah, and it's hard to switch

(25:20):
out of eggshell mode with a new partner if I've
been kind of used to that for so long. But
also also for couples who are wanting to repair this
is also part of the challenge is like we're creating
something new, we might fall back into old habits and

(25:42):
catch ourselves and then try to learn the new ones again.
And we are also trying to shift our bodies in
our nervous systems from eggshell mode walking on eggshells, to
take small risks again to trust our partner and and

(26:03):
create that and that can take time, especially the more
damage has been done.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah, no though, I get that too, Jo, but really
quick though, for people that are getting in that situation,
do you have any advice for them? Like, hey, listen
if your partner's been through a lot, and you know
they have a rough history. What are some things you
would tell them, like, hey, listen, what are some things
they could they could need to understand right away when
they're getting into this because I know obviously one of

(26:32):
them is being really patient with them. Understand that this
person has been damaged, so they may have a lot
of outbursts and things like that, you know, because that,
you know, is there anything else? You know? Am I
missing something? I'm no one missing something here? You got?
You know, what do you what do you suggest for
someone you know, when getting into that situation, like they
know the person has a rough past? What do you

(26:53):
what do you suggest they do? How should they approach it?
You know? Is there things they need to be watching
out for because obviously this person's not said being treated right.
So this person that's coming in the partner, you know,
what should they know ahead of time?

Speaker 3 (27:08):
Yeah, I'm thinking like if sorry, I'm just I'm having
like five thoughts at once. So getting some education is
always going to be helpful. Like if if somebody has

(27:30):
a mental health diagnosis like yeah, or has PTSD from
their past relationship, like I would one be learning about
PTSD and the UH and how that is for an individual,
how that impacts couples, Like just some education is going
to go a long way. But the thing that I

(27:53):
would be wanting to talk to with the couple or
the individual would be normalizing that you're going to want
to react because you're going to be triggered too. You
both are going to get triggered and you're going to
want to react, and that our goal as an individual

(28:17):
in a relationship is to slow down, try to figure
out what is getting triggered in me, and can I
communicate that in a vulnerable way. And so if their
partner has had a lot of sort of relational trauma
in their past relationship and is lashing out when they

(28:39):
get triggered, one of the things that they could do
is they could instead of lashing out back or instead
of walking away saying like this is really hurting me
right now, Like when when you're talking to me like that,
I'm getting triggered. I don't like it, like being vulnerable themselves,

(29:02):
which is incredibly hard to do. It doesn't have to
be like you're making me feel worthless, like that might
be too vulnerable in a moment like.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
That, The communicate. Hey, listen, this this is triggering me,
Like just you know, hey, these are things that you
need to try and avoid these. This is the kind
of there's someone known like in the other person the intherside,
cause I deal with it myself right now, is that
you know, my wife will tell me those things. You'll
be like, hey, listen, this is this gonna this triggers
me a little bit, just you know, and I'm like, okay, cool,
We're done doing that one percent. If I didn't know, okay, cool,

(29:34):
I'm sorry. And I'm listening to what she's actively listening
to what she's saying. You know, that's I think that's
the key part of this. To listen to them. They're
going to communicate to you and tell you these things.
Hey listen, this is triggering to me. That doesn't mean
continue to do it, fellas you know, like, let's let's
be smart about this. Let's listen to what they're saying.
You know, your partner, male, female, whatever, whatever choice or

(29:54):
partner you have, just listen to them when they tell
you something like that, because I think that is the
biggest thing to you, because one, you'll earn their trust
into the they're telling you what's trigger man? I mean now,
I mean I'm falling right on the lines.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yeah. Yeah. And ideally, like couples are going to grow
in their ability to do this together, like both partners
to do this together, and that creates a sense of
safety in the relationship. Because if I just blow up
at your back, that tells you I'm not hearing you're
You're not safe, I'm going to lash out at you.

(30:30):
That doesn't create a sense of safety. If I just
completely don't say anything, don't acknowledge what you're saying, and
just walk into another room, that also doesn't create a
sense of safety. It creates a sense of like being ignored,
kind of neglected, abandoned. And and so sometimes when people
are also talking about boundary setting in relationship.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
Guys, I love it. I love boundaries, yes.

Speaker 3 (30:55):
But they need to be communicated boundaries because if I say,
like if I'm if in my own anger, like my
partner's lashing out at me, and in my own anger,
I say something like I'm not gonna let you treat
me like that, you know, and then I walk away
that there's no real.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
No boundary being set there. You're not really saifying what
it is.

Speaker 3 (31:22):
Yeah, so or if I just walk away, that's also
not being really communicated. And sorry, my dog lay on
my foot. Okay, yes, yeah, she she decided to get
very comfortable on me, and yeah, okay. But so it's

(31:47):
gonna be like a boundary that's coming from a place
of like like asserting asserting it, which is different than
not saying anything or asserting anything or becoming aggressive myself.
There's like this balance that's to be had in the middle.

(32:09):
So I could say something like this is really triggering me,
this is really hurting could you please stop stop shouting
like that's I can't understand what you're saying. Like if
we can't calm this down a little bit, I'm gonna
need to take a break until we can't be calmer.
That that is communicating and giving the person the choice too.

(32:33):
And it's also not about just on the topic of boundaries.
There there's a lot of like a boundary versus an ultimatum.
Ultimatums are about you have to do this or else.
A boundary is I'm going to do this. If my

(32:56):
boundaries are about my own needs as a as a
human in a in a relationship, this is how I'll
meet my needs, and I can ask you to meet them,
and then if you can't meet them, then I need
to meet them, versus about changing someone else's behavior. So
saying like you need to calm down, it's not going

(33:17):
to be I think almost universally, No, no partner takes
that well. You say you need to calm down, But
what you can say is like, I'm having a really
hard time following when they're when the volume is so loud.
I need it to be more quiet in order to

(33:37):
be able to to track what you're trying to tell me. Yeah,
and if we can't find a way to do that here,
then I'm going to need to wait until we can
do that. That's more about me than saying you need
to calm down.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
Yeah, no, I get that too. Or a lot of
times we'll do is if if I start getting hot,
I'll just like, yep, you need to go into the room,
take a deep breath, and come back and you know, clear,
get you get yourself refocused, because you know, even even
de escalating like that helps too. It's just like because
once you all start blowing up and shit just starts
getting said, and then you can't take back to as
you say, you know, and yeah, when you start getting mad,

(34:15):
you start throwing insults at each other and start saying
crazy stuff to each other, and then it's like, yeah,
y'all need to stop. Yeah, but listen, let's let's change
the topic a little bit. Okay, so as everyone can
see the second part of your name, says the sex therapist,
I am what got you into the taboo subject of that, because,
like we talked about before we hit record, was that

(34:37):
a lot of times people don't want to talk about
this area, which I think communication there too is really
good as well.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
Yes, absolutely so. Before becoming a marriage counselor, I worked
for the Department of Veterans Affairs as a trauma therapist
and I was one of two people who were trained
in trauma therapy, and because of the two of us,

(35:08):
I was only female. So I got most of the
sexual trauma.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
Cases, okay, okay.

Speaker 3 (35:14):
And so I have done a lot of work with
sexual trauma with people who have PTSD from sexual trauma
and work with a lot of couples who have PTSD
where one or both partners have PTSD. Oftentimes somebody has
sexual trauma in their background which impacts their their sex

(35:34):
life together and and also then when I did become
a marriage counselor, I mean, it's one of the you know,
it's one of the three kids, sex and money, you know,
like those those topics like if if I'm gonna be
a marriage counselor, that can really help the couples coming in,

(35:55):
I need to be able to help with those things
and the fair repair. You know, those are the things
that people need help with.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
So a fair repair. I think it's got to be
the most challenging one though, you think about it, because
the trust is broken there at that point, you know,
and then you've got to try and rebuild the trust,
like you know, in that constant fear in the back
of your head, especially people like neo anxiety. You know,
our thoughts racing, We're going, oh, when are they gonna
how we know they're gonna not do this again, you
know what I mean, it's gonna go so bad for
me that you know, it was like I could tell

(36:26):
you from my experience, it was like ever since then,
I just I couldn't trust her after that point. It's
just like I couldn't trust anything she said, even though
all the years I watched her lie. You know, that
was the one thing when she cheated. I would think
that was the trigger point for me. It's like, you know, yeah, no,
there's no coming back for me on that one.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
Common for many people. Yeah, any any type of big betrayal.
It's not always an affair. I think that's the most
commonly talked about thing that feels like a very large betrayal.
But I've had other couples say like, there was this
one time and you didn't stand up for me to

(37:02):
your mom and I never got over that. There's any
time that there is a really big betrayal in the relationship,
that those are hard, that you can repair for them.
Most people who have some sort of large betrayal do
actually stay together and repair and you can be stronger

(37:25):
than you were before that. But that is painful, hard,
hard work to do.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, I would assume though, Like you know, sexual assault
definitely for a lot of the ladies that get assaulted.
You know men too, by the way, guys get we
get assaulted too, fellas a lot of times we don't
talk about it at all, but it does happen. I
think they would be clarify that too, that it does
happen to men. But that's got to be real rough
from though me and think about it, because like them
being intimate with another person, they've got to start having

(37:53):
those flashbacks and things like that. I could I could
only imagine the poor things, those poor ladies or gentlemen
to deal with, you know, just it could be just
something like we don't think of it that way, but
it's it's it's just traumatizing like that in general, you know,
just interactions in general.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
Yes, And one of the common, probably one of the
most common sexual challenges for couples is something called sexual
desire discrepancy, which is just like one person has a
higher sex drive than the other one. Yeah, and then
they have a little bit of conflict around around the

(38:29):
frequency of sex, usually because of the same thing we
were talking about earlier. What does it trigger in me
emotionally if I'm the one with a higher sex drive
and you don't want to have sex with me.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
I could speak on that for a little bit, because
I it was like that with me and my ex.
We were like that we had two different levels, but
it was it was always frustrating because you're like you're
always like trying to You're like, well, I'm trying to
sleep with you know what I mean. You're not making
your case where you're saying these following things. I'm trying
to sleep with you. You should be happy about that. Probably
not a great edda to tell them, Matt, obviously, but

(39:02):
you know it's like I get that, But at the
same time, you need to respect your partner, like you know,
like if she's not in the mood Fellas, you can't
force her to do something or they'll just do it
just to because no, no, no, no, you should never
accept that honestly fullas I'm telling you. And and Lizz
will probably backs this up. I'm not sure she She
could tell me a factor crame, but Fellas, if she
is not into it, then is not worth it. Don't

(39:23):
don't do that anything like cause then you just like
it breaks the trust a little bit because then she's like, well,
whatever he wants and he'll get it, you know, and
it's like, no, no, that's not how it should be
a two way road, like you should both agree that
this is something you both want in unison, you know.
And and if you don't feel that way, I'm I
don't tell you guys, and you're you're looking at this

(39:43):
from the wrong stancing because you're you're causing more harm
than good at that point. Okay, well you know you
you what is it? Whatever? Oh I have my knees
need to be met. Get get the fuck out of here.
Be honestly listen, man, you're married. You know this person's
here with you. You know, it's like you have to be
respect for the other party. You know. You know what
I'm saying. You stop me if I'm talking crazy here, But.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
I'm totally tracking with everything that you're saying. And it
can be it can be the female with the higher
sex drive too, so yeah, it can it can swap there.
There is this sort of stereotype in our society that
it's always always the men, but it can be the female.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
With blame. We can both agree with blame the internet
for that one, okay, because like all the online all
this other crazy shit. It's just like blah blah. It's
like it's the Internet irritation. And sometimes it's great and
other times it just pisses you off because the things. Yeah,
it's just like you're you're sending the wrong message to
these other younger generations of females and guys that we
should perceive everything as you know, these things and that thing,

(40:47):
oh this that you should tell them what you're gonna
get the fuck out of that? How this works? Like
this is like the like some of these things. You
watch these videos and you're just like, huh, what did
you just like get the hell out of here? Man?
Or what is it that take? Guy? God, I can't
stand that guy. He's so annoying, Like you know, you know,
just people like that are out there spreading these lives like
this is how you should treat your No, well, you

(41:09):
shouldn't do these things. This is the thing you shouldn't
be doing. God, Davin, don't pay attention to him.

Speaker 3 (41:14):
Yeah, maybe maybe ask your partner how they want you
to treat them. That's kind of what I.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
Again, communications the key here, Fellas. I'm shouting it out,
like is it not just the Fellas what I'm saying
for us guys, its communication is a killer. Man. I
think that's the hardest part of kids when it comes
to guys ourselves. You know, we don't talk about stuff,
you know, And I think that's just because that's how
we were programmed. But at the same time, there's some
ladies that believe that same thing too. You see a

(41:42):
lot of them posting these videos. Oh well, you know,
he's like the guy who's upset in the video. And
then she's said, man, well, why are you upset? Why
are you crying? Why you mad? No, stop, let's stop
posting this crap out here, because these kids are seeing
these things and now they're thinking that this is how
relationship should go. You know, you should there get mad
at one another because one of you all are upset
about something, you know, and especially as guys were like

(42:04):
always told, you know, be quiet or just be suck
it up, you know.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
Yeah, something that might be sensational on social media and
get all the nice little views of the videos is
not necessarily the same thing that would lead to health, right,
health in a relationship and a sense of safety and
security and connection.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah, you know. And then it's a whole the whole
jealousy things are coming into play. Well, you like this
girl's video, Like, there's so many stories you hear about that,
Like the other partner so defensive about something. Yeah, you know,
instead of I wonder asking what the deal is, it's
like what did you do to cause this problem? Now,
if you're flirtatious with other women, Okay, there's a problem there. Chief.
You shouldn't be doing that. First off, you know, if

(42:48):
you're you're in a relationship, I ever understand, like maybe
maybe you can understand this. I never understand why people
will cheat. It's like if you're not happy, Yeah, just
making a mutual agreement, like, hey, listen, this ain't working
out for us, I'm going to do something. I you know,
I'm having these feelings for other's something you know me
Just be honest amy that right? I mean that makes
no sense, Like why cheat on somebody? Yeah, because the

(43:09):
long term effects you don't know how that's going to
affect them.

Speaker 3 (43:13):
Yeah, it really varies, there is. Uh So. Like one
of the early episodes that I did on my podcast
was the was around a research like an article that
talked about the seven different reasons people have affairs. And
I'm not I'm not going to remember them all off
the top of my head right now.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
But this is crap. That's not crap. That's not right. Okay,
you're sort of clubs.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
There, there are there are some people who have affairs
related to relationship problems and then they go out and
they try to get their relationship needs met in another
relationship without communicating and trying to work it through. But
there are also people who might use sex almost for

(44:03):
emotional regulation. And so when you see people who are
really struggling with porn use like where of course, some
of this has to do with the boundaries that couples
agree to in their relationship around porn or other sexual partners.
If they have a very closed relationship and they're like

(44:24):
they don't want porn, then but there are other couples
who feel fine about porn and porn use in their relationship.
So whenever it becomes problematic, which is defined by the couple,
or I've had clients who would have a series of

(44:47):
one night stands that is not about a relationship problem.
That is usually more about how sex has become a
tool for emotional regulation. So there can be all sorts
of reasons. I don't like the term sex addiction. There's

(45:11):
like some there's a bunch of debate. I think we
would probably call most people who are a sex certified
sex therapist anyway would probably say it's more like compulsive
sexual behaviors or something that then becomes like at a
problematic level. But working with that, it is something that

(45:35):
I like to do also, and it's a completely different
thing than working with like the more traditional I had
an affair that lasted, you know, where I fell in
I fell in love with this other partner and and
it was ongoing and there was this emotional attachment to them.
Those are very different sort of situations.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
Yeah, No, I get that completely. No. We did an
episode with somebody that was a what addiction about a
porn addiction specialist, that's what he was in, you know,
and he was telling us some really strange facts about things,
you know, and it was it was just interesting to understand, like,
you know, it's not what you think it is when
people say their addic. It's not like they're watching it
every single day. It's the behavior and mannerisms like they're

(46:19):
hiding it and they're shamed to talk about it, you know.
And and a lot of times that's the friction to
have too, because the partner's like, well, I don't agree
with you watching this, but they're going to watch it
in secrecy either way.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
Yes, Yeah, And that I mean that's also really relevant
to the sex topic in general, is that people have
so much shame around sex, around around wanting sex, around
not wanting sex, around the frequency that they want or
don't want sex, around what they like, around voicing what

(46:53):
they like or voicing what they feel is uncomfortable about.
There's so much shame and fear of rejection when it
comes to when it comes to sex that this is
also an area where those early years in a relationship
really matter, because how we navigate talking about sex then

(47:19):
sets the tone for is it emotionally safe? Yeah, for
me to voice how I think and feel about sex
as we move on in our relationship, and if we
build safety at the beginning, then it's easier to have
all these hard conversations. If we struggle, then it can

(47:44):
often continues to spiral.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Yeah, yeah, I get that though, you know, because that
that fear of rejection and it's like, well, oh, she's
not ever in the mood. It's like, yeah, but what
are you part of you playing in this conversation too,
Like you know, and it's not always then maybe it's
something you're doing. Have you ever thought about talking to them?
We're back to the conversation part now, you know, having
having a conversation with your other half and asking him, hey,
listen and just just talking about it, like, don't don't

(48:09):
make it sound like, you know, you're so bitter about it.
Maybe maybe you'd be curious, like hey, listen, like what
is it that's going wrong? You know, like what what
what can I do to you know, to get you
in the mood kind of you know, like those kinds
of conversations nobody wants to have. It's like everybody feels
like when you say sex, everybody's ears are shut off.
They're like, oh shit, ear muff time. Everybody you know,
like you ear muff, Like why why ear muff? Like

(48:31):
it's a normal conversation for two people to have. You know. Yeah,
I'm not saying go have it out with your neighbors.
Everybody's to have it, you know, sit around the table.
Like now, if you're open talking that conversation, okay, that's
that's your own personal bisits. But a lot of people
that just like to hear them just go instantly go, oh, well, no,
that's all you're worried about. It's just out there too,
you know, and it's like, oh, you guys kill me
with that thing. You know. It's because it's like they

(48:52):
don't communicate ityody gets so sensitive as soon as it
works sex and then it's like, well that's all you're
thinking about right now, you know, And it's like maybe
that's not it. Maybe they're just trying to communicate, like
we were talking about, you know, trying to communicate by
what it is their needs are. You know, hey, listen this,
you know things like that too. But let's let's be
honest here, though, guys be realistic. Don't be like, oh
I needed every single day. Really, come on now, man,

(49:15):
people are not We're not machines here, man, Like, like,
come on, you know, like I just don't. I don't
get it. Like some of these guys say, see the
goofy is shit possible. It's like you do. I'm like,
do you ever listen to yourselves? Do you guys really
listen to the ship you're saying sometimes, like just the
dumb stuff you say, it's just like you sound like adult.
You sound so stupid because you're saying these things because
you you got it from somewhere, you know, Andrew Tat

(49:37):
or whatever the hell's out there telling you that this
is how things should go. And it's like it's not Fellas, Yeah,
like we got to stop this ship this You're like,
you know, we got to have more open conversations about
these kind of things, you know, not make it so taboo.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
Yeah. One of the things that's coming to my mind
as you're talking about that is I remember hearing uh
a therapist say once that life is about having the
full menu. The like if I go to a restaurant,
I need a full menu, right. I can't just have

(50:11):
dessert all day every day. That's going to make me
sick and it's going to eventually lose its.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
Yeah. I think that's pretty good. Yeah, Okay, that makes sense. Yeah,
it's like an analogy. You think about the way the
way they're presenting it, it makes sense. Okay.

Speaker 3 (50:26):
Yeah. And so sex is a way to feel really
close to my partner, and it is. I mean, there
are so many reasons people have sex. Of course, it's
a stress reliever, it helps people feel close to each other,
it can help people sleep like tho. So there's lots
of reasons to have sex. But for many of the

(50:52):
couples where they're struggling to feel emotionally close, often this
is a very fast way to try to try to
feel emotionally close and connected again. And what they don't
what they haven't developed is the rest of their menu
is how do we have different ways to feel close

(51:15):
that feel good and they can feel healthy and they're
different and we can have variety. And that is sometimes
where where couples can find other ways of being together
that are meaningful in addition to sex, and then that
can that often helps the person who is wanting sex

(51:42):
as that fast way to get close to their partner
because they have now found other ways to get to
that closeness. And it also helps the person who's like,
I can't have sex every single day, so have other
ways of feeling closest.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Well yep, okay, So we got a comment that came
in MEMI says, talk to each other, be interested in
each other, make sure everyone is continuing equally. People can
lose interest from disappointment, tiredness, and too much in a
comfort zone.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
Yeah. Well, I think they're really pointing to the importance
of communication, right that we have been talking about for
the comment. Yeah, and I think that's really important because
I'm thinking about another thing that I heard from doctors
John and Julie Gotman at a They are researchers that

(52:40):
do a bunch of research on couples, and they were saying, like,
sometimes I have needs to rest right and other times
I have needs to be active. Like just they weren't
talking in a sexual context. They were just saying, like,
you know some you know, one day I might home

(53:00):
and I need to relax and watch TV. Another day
I might be like, oh, I've got all of this energy,
I want to go on a walk, Let's go on
a bike ride, let's go you know, do something. That
there's variation in what we need, and I think the
comment was alluding to that we we can have different

(53:21):
needs at different times and how do we learn how
to communicate about those together.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Yeah, no, I agree, I agree. I think that that's
the thing is, you know, it's just I think me
and these points really really good there though, you know,
being you know a lot of times to be getting
that comfort zone and they don't think that something's wrong
or you know, all all of the other things that
you know, it's just yeah, I mean, it's you know,
that's that's why communication is great, though. Mean, that's why
you know, having a healthy communication with your partner at

(53:50):
the end of the day is really great because then
you both be on the same page. You know, someone
feels like the other one is not you know that
feelings they're not carrying their wait in some sort of
the relationship. You know, it's like, hey, listen, you know
it's okay to talk about these kind of things. You
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
Yes, yeah, you've got the two spectrums.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
The communication helps you navigate conflict right and and problem
solve and compromise and come back together to be on
the same page as a team. And then communication also
helps you communicate where I'm sorry, it does help you communicate,
but it helps you with connection, which is the the

(54:29):
ooey guey lovely feeling of relationships. It's the love part.
It helps us have the closeness that is the really
is the beautiful part that brings us together in the
first place.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
Exactly. So, Liz, we're at the part of the show.
I'm gonna ask you the all important question. If your
mental health had a song, what would that song be.
I've always get great, always get great responses from this one.
Trust me. This is one question.

Speaker 3 (55:01):
So you know, I've never thought about this. I am
going with what comes to my head. Let's see what
I am thinking. What's coming to my mind is our
our wedding song, which was Bloom by the Paper Kites,
and one of the the song lyrics is can I

(55:27):
be close to you? And I think that really summarizes
my view on relationships and relationship struggles and what we
all need to be thriving, which is to be close
to meaningful others.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Right, And that's that's awesome, jen As I'm sorry Liz,
as we get ready to close out this episode of
People Society, do you want to let really know where
they can find you? I know you have your podcast?
How often you Yeah?

Speaker 3 (56:00):
Once a month? We have one once a month, so
the first Monday of every month is when we have
new episodes. So that is uh, if you go to
Communicate Andconnect dot com, you'll slash podcasts is the direct
way to get to the podcasts. And if you were

(56:20):
if you were just trying to get a hold of
me or looking for like counseling or training in marriage
and family therapy, that is also there too at Communicate
and Connect dot com.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
There you go, guys, and you know where to find her.
Go check her out, Liz, know you saw her on
the show. I'm sure she'd appreciate, you know, hearing that
somebody's seeing her on this episode and Liz, I want
to thank you so much for coming today. I think
it was great. Sorry, I think the conversation need to
be had. I think it's you know, communication at the
end of the day is key in a lot of relationships.
I think it's what you're doing is great. I think

(56:52):
what you're doing for these military families is fantastic because
you know, it's hard. Like you said, you know, it's
it's hard you being at me, a spouse, yourself. You understand,
you know. So I think that's what really connects you
to a lot of people's kids. They're like, hey, listen,
you know she's going through this, you know. And I
think what you're doing is fantastic at the end of
the day. So I just want to say, hats off
to you. Hats off to your husband too. Tell me
we appreciate him doing what he's doing out there. He

(57:14):
may be doing the little things or whatever, it doesn't matter.
He's over there. He's spending time away from you and
the family. So it's totally understanding. So as I wrap
up this episode of Peter for Anxiety, guys, you know
where to find me. I'm Peter for Anxiety and X
all the way down to TikTok. I'm on Spotify all
the way down to the iHeartRadio and as always say,
it costs nothing, absolutely nothing to be kind to somebody.
One kind actor you could do because say Sam's life
or hell, you can make their day. I'm pete for

(57:34):
his anxiety, staying off saying hey, don't ask your days today,
say hey, how's your mental health today,

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Marriage Counselor & Sex Therapist Dr LIz

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

All Episodes

Marriage Counselor & Sex Therapist Dr LIz

Stuff You Should Know