Shannon Sharpe Vs Tony Evans Debate

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, friend, Henry Flowers here Powerful Living Outreach Ministry. You
can find us at Powerful Living twenty two dot or
go ahead and check us out. I'm glad to be
here with you today as we move from where we
are to living a life that we love. And I
am company a company today by the One, the Only,

(00:25):
the Man, the myth, the legend, the man with the
hat to the back. Willie Bill. What's up, Willy Bill?

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah? How's it going doing? Good?

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Brother? Give us some information. Tell us who you are
and where people can reach you.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah. I'm at be thirteen productions. You can find me
on Facebook and YouTube. I have somewhat of my own
podcasts as well. I haven't done it in a minute
because I'm trying to restructure and I need better equipment.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
So yeah, his podcast, all right, yeah, mine, But it's
all right.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
That is from the political landscape more so political slash
religious moral moral landscape, biblical moral can't landscape.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
All of that is good because we're going to be
getting into all of that as we take the next phase.
Because my job will A Bill, as you know we've
talked about this in depth, is I want to get
people to think, you know, Moses went into Egypt and said,
let my people go. Man. Listen, Nowadays we need to
scream to people, let my people think. Yeah, just especially

(01:36):
as believers, but people in general. Man, we just believe
stuff easy because because PASSI said it, or somebody that
you like and then done some great things in life
in the past. They say stuff now and you give
them the credit based on what they did in the past,
and you just believe that too. No, man, I'm tired
of people being cheap ole. I want people to use

(01:58):
this noddle up here to chop up the Word of God.
See what it says, uncover what it doesn't say. We're
gonna be calling out people who claim to be teachers
of the Gospel, will call them out on their stuff.
We'll definitely talk about some politics and religious other other

(02:19):
people's religions and faiths and beliefs. I want this to
be a platform where.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
We have.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
This this this arena of debate where we can come
in and have some comparative thoughts, to be able to
contrast and help people to hear another perspective, this idea
of a journey of exploration politics, religion, life, philosophies. We

(02:54):
jump into some sports we're gonna be doing all this stuff,
but I'm gonna be coming letting well it be no mistake,
thank y'all. I'm going to be coming from a faith
based Protestant Christian minister perspective saying Jesus is Lord, and
this is why I believe it, and I want people
to be able to come in and chime in. What
you got to say about all that.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Well, I think, well, first of all, I think people
what I call fat brain, So they got fat on
the brain. So anything they hear, they're easy to believe
it because they don't have They don't want to do research.
They don't want to dig deep because they fear they
might find find what they what would not support their

(03:45):
emotional attachment to They.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Might discover what they don't want to believe.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Right, So they don't care to do that. As a
matter of fact, if you even attempt to try to
get them to do it, they'll get angry and don't
want to talk to you no more, because then, yeah,
they don't care to challenge their own beliefs. And when
we've gotten into that position, we failed as a society.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with you. So for me,
we're gonna be tackling different subjects and today we jumping
right on in this one and we're gonna discuss today.
So folks, if y'all don't know, uh, you know, something
happened two months ago and Willie Bill and I had
a personal discussion about it and we just chose not

(04:32):
to air it because it just didn't It didn't show
up for me as something that I really really wanted
to jump on, although you and I had a good
discussion about it. But brother, something happened last night with
Shannon Sharp and it just brought this whole thing back

(04:54):
around with Tony Evans, and we're gonna talk about it today.
We take in the next phase and podcasting. Right here,
I'm sitting aside all that powerful living stuff. Hey, we
we jumping in right here and we're gonna take the
next phase and we're talking about Shannon Sharp Voses versus
Tony Evans. That's right, all right, So if you don't

(05:15):
know by now, Shannon Sharp is a contributor to He's
an ESPN talking head, former Hall of Famer tight end
for the Denver Broncos, also played for the Baltimore Ravens.
He's on the Stephen a Smith show. He's out of
got his own podcast called The Nighthap Nightcap and also

(05:36):
Club Shay Shape. So you know Instagram, see what had
happened was on Instagram all of a sudden, Uh, there
was an Instagram live from mister Shannon Sharp's phone and uh,

(05:58):
let's just say he was engaged in some activities with
one that he called Michelle. And there was no video,
but there was a good lengthy portion of audio, and
it was it was obvious that you know, they was

(06:18):
making the double back monster. You know, they they they was,
there was, there was, there was there was becoming one
flesh and and and it was it was something that
he says that was unplanned, unscripted. And so let me
give you a few seconds of his thoughts on his

(06:41):
podcast called Nightcap with o Cho Senko. I'll just give
you a few minutes so you can hear in his
own words.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
And I'm very disappointed in myself, not for the act.
I think there are millions of billions of people, uh
of considering age that engage in activity, but but to
have your most intimate detail on the audio to be heard,
I'm disappointed to myself. I let a lot of people

(07:09):
down my kids. I reached out to them. I called them,
I called my sister, my friends. Obviously my friends reached
out but got this was not staged.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Came in.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
I threw my phone on the bed, gauged it an
activity I did not know.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
I g Live.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
I've never been on IG Live.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
I've never turned ig live on, so I don't know
how it works. And so.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
Be quiet, Willie Bill. Let this man explain. Man, he
is pouring out his heart to the nation. See this
is why I can't stand this man, y'all. This man,
so irreference, This man is having a heart to heart
with the world. Now we don't listen. You're gonna really
enjoy this comparison and how this comparison to Tony Evans
and me and Willi Bill getting into this. But right

(07:57):
now I need you to be respectful. Respectful man, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
Sudden, my other phone is going on and people are
calling me FaceTime that I've never talked to a day
of my life on FaceTime.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
And it didn't I'm like, why are y'all calling me FaceTime?

Speaker 3 (08:11):
And after a while, Jamie French, who's been my longtime
marketing guy, he finally got through to him and he said, uh, Shatton,
you're on IG live. I'm like, doing what you know, Like,
what about on IG live or I ain't no IG live.
But he says, uh, they can hear. I like, I'm like,
so now o choe, you know, I say, ask for patients.

(08:34):
He said they can hear. And now I'm starting to
get agitated again because you called me and said I'm
on IG live when I know I didn't click myself
on IG live. And he said they can hear me.
I said, hear me doing?

Speaker 2 (08:44):
What say? It sounds like you were having sex?

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Man?

Speaker 2 (08:50):
My heart sank, it dropped. Yeah, whatever, what you know.
I just think sometimes mystery is good, right And in
this case, he should have just said nothing to.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Me, I that you can go with that man, whatever, man, go.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
Ahead, go ahead. I just think he this sounds planned
and stage to me. I mean, it's on the heels
of him being branded gay, it's on the heels of
him losing support for a show, is on the heels
of him call himself, not answering his critics. And I

(09:35):
thought the best he had the hand, He had the
best hand as long as he didn't respond, as far
as I'm concerned, But the fact that he gets on
to make this if he's not on Instagram live, how
the hell? How the hell right?

Speaker 1 (09:49):
I just don't get it.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
And and that's all I say. It's just a convenient.
Uh what's that word. It's a convenient, a convenient mistake.
I guess it's a word that people use, a convenience something.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
But I know what you mean.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
But it's more than it is reality.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
That's hey, hey, let me tell you something. I know.
I know what it is convenient. What it is convenient
is them checks that he getting from ESPN. I bet
you from from being on the ESPN's uh Steve An'
Smith show. I bet them checks is convenient. So when
you on something that represents Walt Disney and you are
their ambassador, man, you better get out in front of

(10:34):
that and issue your apology. Take your little week suspension
to go on if you want them checks to come in,
because he signed a nice little contract. Now come on.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Now. Now, I don't know he need a PR. He
needs PR. That's all I can say. He needs good PR.
That man, I got PR bad, he got bad PR.
And it they're not They're ill advising him. Because this
sounds to me and I'm sure, like millions of people

(11:03):
that it sounds stage and it sounds fake. I just
don't buy none of it.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Well, in eighteen hours, he's already got four hundred thousand
views plus and climbing shortly to five hundred thousand views.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
People knows it. They don't mean they agree.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
That's just well, I get there, you know, just you know,
just like I know, on this platform, it's about views,
brother and them checks coming in, right.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
But sometimes it's not just about that, you know, because
those same people just like to watch a tragic. They
love to watch the tragic. Put a fight on your
podcast and see how many views you get.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
Oh, it's going down, okay, all right, let me hear
what he is a guy say, let me finish so
we can get into this. I'm about to take you down.
Everybody listening and watch me take this brother down. You see,
he always just being disrespectful towards people watching it. Listen.
Let me the rest of.

Speaker 3 (11:57):
This obviously, uh, I run and run my accounts. But Jordan,
being the good Samary, the good soldier that he is,
Jordan the one that cut it off because hell, I
didn't even know it was home. Jordan cut it off.
Jordan put the message up and then after I called
my agent.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
I called my agent the agent.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
What man, he explained it. Why are you laughing at
this man?

Speaker 2 (12:23):
So he was having sex with Michelle and Jordan cut
the video right, So I mean where was Jordan, like,
was he watching it? Was he observed? I mean, really,
I just can't go ahead. I can't. I can't.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
He's probably he's probably one of his pr people got
access to one of his accounts. But he issued his apology.
He you know, has finishes up his show. I didn't.
I didn't watch the entire show. But for me, this
is interesting because we're gonna have this debate again for
this audience y'all, because me and Willie Bill went around

(12:55):
and round about this Tony Evans situation. Now, if y'all
don't know, Pastor Tony Evans was the pastor of a
church in Texas, uh for about fifty years. And Tony
Evans comes.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
On board.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
And he says, I'm resigning. Now, for me, it's like, okay,
well you've been there for a minute, bro, Like you
could have just resigned and walked on off into the
sunset and nobody would have thought anything but he came
on board and said, hey, listen, I'm resigning through advice

(13:40):
from from from advice of the elders and blah blah blah,
I'm resigning. And then he says this, He says, I
committed a sin wherein I didn't use quote unquote godly judgment.
That's a quote from him. And he said a few

(14:02):
words after that, and basically he left it at that
and they've resigned, and that was about two months ago.
Now for me, listen, you already know me. My ministry
is about people being transparent and sharing these things because
you never know how you might change someone else's life

(14:26):
when you have a sin in your life and you
are willing to share these things with people. Because we
have empowerment sessions on Sundays at ten thirty eight ten
thirty am Eastern Standard time, and you can find us
on YouTube as well. But you can also click on
the description below and you'll see the link there if
you want to join us Powerful Living Ministries on Sundays

(14:47):
at ten thirty am Eastern time. We share our stuff.
So for me, it was like, share your stuff. Why
don't you share your stuff? And why are you telling
us being cold and cryptic. You could have just walked
off into the sunset and then and leave him a
whole bunch of questions.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
What were you?

Speaker 1 (15:06):
What were your thoughts on that? Willie Bill, go ahead
and jump in. Tony Evans fan, I'm a fan.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Of his too.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
I just I'm also a fan of doing right. I'm
also a fan of doing right. Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
I'm not a fan of Tony Evans. I'm just a
fan of decency. I'm a fan of people being able
to handle things in a way where it does not
bring shane to the gospel. And I think, in my assessment,

(15:40):
that's what Tony Evans did. He's flawed, He's a human. However,
he protected the gospel.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
Explain that, because people want to know exactly what you
mean when you say, how did he protect the gospel?

Speaker 2 (15:53):
Let's say Sandy's Shop was a minister, right, and and
let's this was his way of explaining away what happened.
Right not. I can't even use the channel shop. I

(16:13):
would have to use Eddie Law. Right. So Edievelong fought
and fought and fought the allegations, fought it fought, it fought,
it brought shame to the gospel, to the point where
people started leaving the churches and droves. It was his
allegations of inappropriate relationships with young men in the church.
So for that reason, he brought shame to the gospel.

(16:38):
And he had no bones about denying it. And because
when you deny, you bring more attention to it, right,
because people now want to know, like is he lying?
What's the truth? You know what I mean? So for me,
Tony Evans did what I thought was appropriate. He owned

(16:58):
his mistake, and he walked away.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
And and but but go into detail though about this
bringing shame to the gospel, Like give me, give me
some layman's terms language on that. What does that mean
bringing shame?

Speaker 4 (17:12):
So Tony Evans, Well, Tony Evans, he thought to not
to make a spectacle of this, because once you do,
that bring shame to the gospel.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
If that, if that makes sense?

Speaker 1 (17:26):
So you said, I mean, now you're saying what people
would leave the faith because he stepped down, or people
who might be seekers and thinking about being Jesus Eve
or being a Christian, they might not come because of
what he did.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
Know I'm saying that's been that's been over the last
ten years, maybe more. That's been the model. Most people,
the most pastors, have fallen into sin. And now it's
to the point where people have walked away from the Gospels,

(18:01):
you know, which is an adverse effect of what God
called people to minister for. So instead of them bringing
people to Christ, they're pushing him away. And Tony Evans
thought not to do that, and I thought that was
I thought that was very very credible and very very
noble of him. He stepped away, he stepped down, he

(18:22):
announced it. No one, you know, no one knew. Uh.
He stepped up and called himself out and stepped down.
And I think that's very noble. I think it's honorable
and it doesn't bring shame to the gospel. Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
Okay, Well, here's why you're wrong on that. My thoughts
on that this, I don't know how noble it is
two do something in secret, because because because obviously his
his sin was not something that everybody could see, right

(18:56):
when something that was live on broadcast, Right, he didn't
say something blasphemous front the pulpit, so obviously he did
something in secret. So my idea is the idea that
you would do something in secret you've committed a sin.
Now you've been leading people for years. You're God's man.
Tony Evans has a world wide ministry bro and has

(19:19):
had it for a long time. He put himself out there.
He's putting himself up as the standard. Follow me as
I follow Christ is what the scriptures say, right, So
this idea that you have this thing that you've done
in secret and you want to resign because of it

(19:42):
and just give a little bit of a detail, not
much of a detail. Would you just say, hey, listen,
I sin against God and you just write godly judgment
and then you resign. And for me, I just don't
know how noble that is. When somebody who's in the
world now comes back behind you and they said wide

(20:04):
open in front of everybody, and they come in and
own it.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
You see.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
This is that the children of the world are sometimes
wiser than the children of life. I don't see that
because it's like, what are you protecting? If? If this
is a uh, if this is an idea where it's
supposed to be Christ first and the Gospel is first, well,
part of the Gospel is about forgiveness. So what is
it that you've done that can't be forgiven? It was

(20:31):
obviously something that caused you didn't have to sit down
because he said, I ain't resign on my own. It's
not what he said. He said under advisement of the elders, right,
he decided to resign, And so that means that they
agreed or they imposed that what he did was rose
to the level of him needing to resign. So maybe

(20:53):
it's for a time or whatever. If he comes back,
that's fine. So I don't I just don't know how
noble that is. But for me, it's like, tell your stuff,
Like you've been out front in front of everybody for
all these years, and you've been to face and we
follow you as you follow Christ. Tell your stuff. Why
are you trying to hide it out? Why you're trying
to keep secret?

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Now?

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Why is it that what you did is something that
needs to be kept secret so we can protect you.
I thought that once you, especially when you stand up
on that platform, I thought you died to yourself and
you forget about your reputation and your stuff and and
all this kind of stuff. So that's what's there for me.

(21:37):
I don't know if it's noble or not. It just
don't feel noble for me. It just feels like he
missed an opportunity to show the world what confession looks like.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
And I think the antithesis of that, I think that
Tony Evans did okay. So in this new world we
live in, there's a global platform. For that reason, people

(22:10):
think the poll pit is global and that's why where
you come in. So you think that because he fell
in sin, he's got to go to the global platform
like anyone else and have to lay it out. That's
not necessarily what I think, based on scripture, I think

(22:33):
is necessary. I think that Tony Evans reached out to
his parishioners. He you know, told them, mainly the elders
what went on. The elders, that he went under elder
advisement and he shall come or submitted to church discipline.

(22:55):
There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. He doesn't have to
go to the global platform and say, hey, by the way,
I flept with him, you know what I mean. So
to me, I just I don't think that serves nobody.
I don't think that people today have the what I
call media minds, and they have to know everything. I mean,
they have to know and me, I'm the type of

(23:17):
person where I think mystery is good as long as
the people that I'm not. Like I said, I'm not
a fan of Tony Emans. I am a fan of
his his his ability to deliver the word of God.
I am a fan of that. But the CD details

(23:39):
of what he did behind the scene, to me is
just not something I care to know. As long as
he confessed that he fell into sin, and he confessed
that he's under church discipline, that's all I need to know.
That's all I need to know. The CD details is
between him, his wife, and his parishioners. Other than that,

(24:00):
I don't mean, I don't see the need. Like with
Shannon Sharp, I don't see why he had to come
and address this, why why he had the trump of
this fakes as far as I'm concerned, and I have
no evidence of this at all, but I think he
dropped of this fake scenario in order to prove he
not gay because he banged Michelle. Like, you know what,

(24:22):
I mean, what the hell is you know? I just
think some things are left should be left to the imagination,
and I think Sharp is an example. Because I'm telling
you the fallout this was just eighteen hours old. But
I promise you to fall out. It was gonna be
far worse if he had just kept his mouth closed.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Well, I think the difference between Shannon Sharp one big
difference in I don't think he really had the opportunity
to keep his mouth closed because it's been has got
put out on the front street like on line.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
But still he doesn't me. I just think he owes
nobody nothing but a wonderful show. I think today what
the problem is we have accepted what society and government
has told us because government has become god, so they
tell us we have to when when we mess up,
we have to apologize, you know. I just think that

(25:13):
if Shannon Sharp was not married and he was having
a tryst and it happened to get on the phone,
he don't want nobody, no explanation. What do he owe you? Well, okay,
hold on, what he did is not it's not indicative
of his profession. He that was a private moment. It

(25:38):
got on, it got out, so what move on.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
It's it's human Okay, Okay, let me give you the
so what so for Shannon Sharp, he works for ESPN
and whose parent company is you know who? You know who?

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Disney?

Speaker 1 (25:56):
There you go, So when you work for Disney because
their mantra is, you know, we for the kids and
all this kind of stuff. Oh you're gonna you're gonna own.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
That Disney that a pedophiles had twenty pedophiles on that.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, the problem. You can call it what you want to.
I'm just saying I think that's the major reason why
he owned it and jumped on it and issued his apology.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
And having sex with a woman.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Really well, listen, this is who they are, and you
know all of the CD details about what goes on
in their company with these people is a whole nother subject.
But you know he's still getting them checks from ESPN. Brother,
you're gonna get in front of this and own it.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
This is my thing. Shannon Shop has his own platform.
He broke the Internet. If I was him, I would
say bye by the Disney and by by the ESPN.
I would not only will I have a platform now
where I sit people down, Because if Shannon Shop worked
for Disney, I'm sure he pulls a level of spectators

(27:02):
to Disney's East ESPN. I would create my own sports show.
I would get all these guys together and I would
have them on my show and do my own thing.
And say I don't have to say a damn thing.
If you're gonna fire me, fire me, But I'm done right.
I just think we cow tell too much as black
people to the status quote and whenever they tell us

(27:25):
to dance, we dance to their tune when the reality
is they're making money off of our backs and they've
been doing it since slavery and nothing's changed. So for
me with that, and I do go. I digress. However,
I think that I think that it's incumbent upon us
at some point that have the balls to stand up
and step out on our own, even if it costs us,

(27:48):
because in the long run, I promise you Shannon Sharp
would do better as an independent than he does under
an ESPN, because I promise you a lot of those
people chime in, they chime in for Shannon Sharp.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
All right, you go ahead. Now let's say it. You
didn't say it with your chest. Now, Now let's let's
let's get to the scriptures, because I'm gonna give you
an opportunity to just share your foundation at least one scripture,
an idea of biblical idea. Now for all of our listeners,
this is what we believe. We believe it read words win.
That's a real simple term. That means, as believers in

(28:22):
Jesus Christ, our foundation and the standard is the Bible.
God's word has the last words, and we bow down
to the word of God. And so when we're talking
about Shannon Sharp, absolutely so, when we're talking about Shannon Sharp,
this is not a man who confesses that he is
a Bible believing Christians. So we not holding him up
to that standard. I thought it was a good comparison

(28:44):
for somebody who committed a sin, so to speak, and
he came up and owned his stuff, as opposed to
somebody who's a believer in Jesus Christ and representative of
believe that Jesus Christ has been preaching for years and
he comes up and doesn't deliver his stuff. He just says,
I I messed up, y'all, forgive me. I got to
sit down for a minute. So for me, there's this

(29:07):
need for the Bible to show up in what I believe.
When I'm saying, hey, listen, bro, conduce your fault. Say
it out loud and now I don't need CD details,
but tell us what you did. I think that portion
would bring healing and restoration for people, because I find
that in the Body of Christ, especially for preachers. You

(29:29):
know they talk about Megachurch, Pastor Evans and all, you know,
just Megachurch this extra title. See, we started lifting people up,
and we start thinking that they're more than what they
actually are. And especially you start adding letters to people's names,
you know, the D and the W, Man of God.

(29:50):
You know how we do man. You know how we
do man. And you start giving people more authority than
they deserve, right, and they start getting their hands closer
in your life, more than they deserve. Did you know
that you can sue? This is for my listeners. Now,
there is a clause in legal realms called undue influence,

(30:13):
and a preacher can be sued. A civil lawsuit can
be filed for undue influence because the law knows how
these pastors can have weight in your life, authority that's undue,
and that if they use that authority to manipulate you
into doing something that harms you, you can sue the behinds.

(30:35):
That kind of thing is created upon the backs of
people who stand up on those pulpits and begin to
have an horror and a sense about themselves that make
them think that the hiring the alitude. The scripture says
something different, and it says, right here, confess your faults
one to another, so that you may be healed. Look
it up, confess your faults one to another so that

(30:56):
you may be healed. So how is it that Tony
Evans has committed a fault or a flaw enough that
he needs to step down after fifty years of ministry,
all these people looking up to him. But you got
no confession. That's not a confession to say, hey, I
messed up. No, say it with your chest, say what

(31:17):
you did? See the details? Okay, you ain't gonna tell
nobody's name, especially if there was a victim. You ain't
got to reveal no victim's name. Obviously, Shannon Sharp didn't
reveal who he was with. And you know, obviously some
people get trying to find out, Well, we know the
names Michelle because it was in the audio. He can't
hide that part. But you ain't gonna be able to
figure out who that was. Neither do I want to know,

(31:38):
And I don't care. I'm impressed that compared to somebody
who's a worldly person, as compared to a believer and
a leader in the body he's willing to confess his
stuff and own it. And Tony Evans don't want to
do what the scriptures say, confess your faults one to another.
He want to just say, hey, y'all, my bad, I
got to go. I'll see y'all later. Your thoughts.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Okay, So let's read that scripture in totalery. Okay, because
I always tell my friends when they when they come
to me with scripture, they always come half cocked because
they read a portion of it, or they read a
section and then they go off. They make a theology
off of right, and the reality is, let's listen to
what it actually says. It says it should be common

(32:25):
practice for Christians to confess our sins to each other. Well,
I'm sorry, back up, it says Christian. Shit. Wait a minute, hold.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
On, come on, that's sounding good. Go ahead, say.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
I'm ready because when I said Christian, I knew it
was it was not from scripture, because the Bible doesn't
say that. You don't hear that, But okay, confessor falts
one to another and pray one for another.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Oh, I didn't give the check in verse. Hold on
for our listeners.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
A check James five sixteen and when it's confess.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
What translation are you.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Reading kjb Okay, it says confession faults one to another,
pray for one another, that ye may be healed. The effectual,
fervent prayer of the righteous avail of much right. So
is the global platform where there are people who may

(33:19):
not be in your best interest or operating your best interest,
the platform that the Bible was talking about, or what
what are the is the Bible talking about the parishioners,
Like I said earlier, in the church, he went to
the elders, he confessed his sins, the elders advised him,
he went under elder advisement, and he sat down. And

(33:39):
I think that satisfied the requirement based on the word
of God. It's not the world stage that he has
to go confess because it says and we could tell
by the terminology and what at first And if I
keep reading, I probably probably would be check it out.
I'm finish, go ahead, right, but let me read it again.
It says confessional faults one to another. So you're saying

(34:02):
that that the Bible was saying and tell the world
or you are you thinking that that if the Bible
was talking about the people and under your voice or
your the people in your church confession sends one to another.
These are believers that the Lord is talking about. He's
not talking about no everybody and anybody, because I just
think that God, I just don't think everything is for

(34:24):
everybody to know. Right. So God says, confess your faults
one to another, pray for one another. So you're saying,
he's telling us unsaved people to pray for Tony Evans
and him to confess to the unsaved people so that
they can pray for him. When the God doesn't get
the prayers, come on now and he says that ye

(34:44):
may be healed. The effectual, fervent prayer of the righteous
avail of much. So he's what Tony Evans did. Based
on what I'm reading here, he did the right thing.
He went to the elders, who are the fervent prayers,
the righteous, the righteous prayers. He went to the eld
the elders, he went under elder advisement, and he sat down. Now,

(35:06):
as far as I'm concerned, he satisfied the biblical requirement.
And then right, but he satisfied the biblical requirement. And
I think he's noble because he's human and we all
have suffered from what's called the human condition, where we
have both natures, no matter where we saved or unsaved,
we have both natures. And the fact of the matter

(35:28):
is that Tony Evans is not above reproach and he
has as far as I am concerned, and from what
I understand in the Bible, he satisfied that requirement based
on the word of God, and I don't see that
he owes nobody nothing else. And for him not disclosing,
he protected the gospel.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
See, this is where I'm gonna get you. I'm gonna
get you right here. This is where I'm about to
get you so good right now. So this idea that
he it was good enough just to confess to his church,
his parishioners or the elders. And we still don't know

(36:09):
if he actually told the parishioners what he did. We
can take him at his word that he spoke to
the elders and told the elders what he did, because
that's what he said, right. But here's see, here's where
he messed up. And here's where you messed up. They

(36:32):
messed up when they recorded this bad Boy and put
it out, because that could have been an in house
thing where they handled it in house. But nope, the
cameras were running, the microphones were running. They put that
thing out on the internet. They allowed it to go

(36:53):
out to the whole world. If you're gonna do that,
then let everybody know tell your stuff, why you're telling
half the stuff and why you see this full idea
of it's about control for me, And it just reeks
of control because that could have been handled in house
and nobody would have had to know nothing other than
what's going on in his church. Turn the cameras off.

(37:14):
Why you got the cameras on? You've been had the
cameras on, which would allow your growth of your ministry worldwide.
Oh now you wanna do some secret stuff. Oh, when
it comes to you, you messed up, and now you
got to step down. Now you want to control the
narrative and not say everything. You've been saying everything to
everybody else. And you just said this and you got

(37:35):
the cameras rolling. How come the cameras had to be rolling.
If the camera's rolling, let your tongue roll and tell it.
Now what you say to that Willie Bill?

Speaker 2 (37:43):
You know, I just I think again, the Bible is
very The mind of God is very explicit and very
telling through inference. And when he says the prayers of
the righteous avail of much, he's talking about a particular
audience that you should confess to, and that is the

(38:06):
righteous the rights. And I firmly believe that Tony Evans
satisfied the requirement. But the fact that he went on
the world stage, to me, says more about his his
contrition than it does about his ability to hide it.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Because that's that thing that you just added about just
to know the people that ain't in that scripture that
you read, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
What's that? No, I'm saying that he says the prayers
are the vices avail of much, and and again the
inference is the people that he would confess to are righteous,
and that's not everybody. So my thing is, I believe
that Tony Evans satisfied the requirement. I pray for the brother.

(38:53):
I pray that the Lord restores him because we need him.
And as far as I'm concerned, whatever happened or whatever
went down, that's between him and the Lord, and him
and his elders and his parishioners, And as far as
I'm concerned, I don't need to see details, because immediately
what I did is started praying for him because we
need them. And and I had just said, uh, of

(39:16):
my best friend Ron Ron Beatty. I told Ron, I said,
I said, you know, we only have a few left
to the Mohegans. That's Jeremiah, pastor, Jeremiah, doctor, Jeremiah Zach
not Jack's Jeremiah's last name, David, Jeremiah, David Jeremiah, Derevid, Jeremiah,

(39:39):
Tony Evans. It's about four four four others left that
I know of that are sound. All the rest of
the preachers has succumbed to the culture wars, and for
that they don't talk about the things in which which

(40:01):
would would would would hit somebody's demons. They try to
stay away from. They shy away from those topics when
God is very explicit. So I just believe that Tony
Evans is one of the last of the Mohegans, and
I pray to God restores him. I don't care what
he did. I don't care. We all live in what's
called the human condition, and we all have you know,

(40:23):
we all subject to the flesh, even though we may
be you know of God. However, I believe that Tony
Evans is a very sound minister, and I think we
need him and we don't. He would be better service
for us in action than in action, and sit with him.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
Okay, all right, I received that, and you can have that.
And you know I'm gonna just I'm gonna just say that, Yeah,
you stay wrong, I'm gonna show you. I'm gonna show
you because so here's what I'm gonna do. Now, this
is really important for believers when we talk about because listen,

(41:05):
you know, WILLI Bill are kind of going at it
jabbing and things like that. But just understand, I got
huge respect for this man, Willi Bill. This man discipled me.
When I said yes to Jesus, I connected with this
brother a short time later. This brother showed me how
to study the scriptures, showed me how to be a believer.
So just understand that I got love for this brother

(41:27):
right here. And so as we began to grow, we'll
bring on other guests and have people have differing opinions.
But just understand when I'm coming at this man that
you'll seeing here, Willie Bill, just understand I've got great
reference for this brother. Okay. Now that said, this platform

(41:51):
is for the forwarding of the gospel. Yes, but this
is an opportunity for us to think, cross examined, learn
how to question the question right.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
And those are the things that I didn't learn soon enough,
and I got messed up in some church, hurt and
all this other kind of fool interests because I didn't
learn how to question the question and I didn't know
enough about how to study it for myself. So those
are the things that we want to create here in
this next phase where we go from just believing what

(42:26):
somebody says because we like them, love them, or got
reverence for them, to the point where we get to
the point where we say red words win the words
of Christ. You're looking at your Bible, it's got the
red words of Christ. Those are designed to stand out
to us. This is the man. He's talking and when
he talks to everybody else ought to shut up. He

(42:48):
is the Word and John one to one. In the
beginning was the Word, and the word was with God,
and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh
and dwelt among us. The living Word of God became
flesh and dwelt among us. So when we say read
words win. Just understand that's what we're talking about. The

(43:10):
Word of God wins. So now here we go, I'm
coming back, Willie Bill all that sanctimonious stuff I just
said for me when it comes to Tony Evans and
telling your stuff, this idea of keeping it private and

(43:30):
not being disclosed, that that way of being is different
than what we see in scripture. Now you mentioned this,
its very important context to read the word. He says
confession faults one to another so that you.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
May be healed.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
Blah blah blah. Yes, it doesn't say the confess your
fault to everybody. But it don't say to not confess
your false to everybody. It don't say believers only. So
the thing is is that the scriptures. So here's my
context around why this idea keeping it in believers, keeping

(44:12):
in house so you don't bring shame to the scriptures.
Here's the thing. I'm gonna give you a question. This
is a rhetorical question, but I want you to answer
yes and no. It's real simple. It s ain't no
catch you question. I ain't politicing you right here. I
just want you to answer yes and no. Is the
Scripture is the Bible available to be read by any
and everybody.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
Of course.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Easy response. Right, of course answer to that as yes.
So therefore, if somebody who is a non believer picks
up the Bible, then they're exposing themselves to the word
of God. And you know what we find in the
Word of God, because we're talking about context here. You know,
when we find in the Word of God, Willie Bill,

(44:56):
we find people's stuff. You might be a posed to
people putting out their CD details, But brother, when you
open the Bible, we have ced details. We know who
sold Jesus to the Jews and for how much thirty

(45:20):
pieces of silver. We know that David was sitting there
looking across the hill at Bathsheba, and we know what
he did to his servant as his whiz lieutenant sent
him to the hottest part of the battle because he
wanted him to be killed so he could have his
wife Bathsheba. We have intimate details about Moses' life and

(45:40):
how angry he was, and he's a premeditated murder and
God still called this brother to priest, the gospel man.
We got intimate ced details about people who was told
by God to marry a prostitute. We got details about
somebody whose wife was defiled and he cut her up

(46:02):
and all these pieces and put this body part herebody
bro CD details. Now that's not what I want to
know about Evans. But I would love for Evans to
be more like Shannon Sharp. And I'm with you with
Shannon Sharps trying and it seems that it is really obvious. Right,

(46:24):
you got a fire started, so if you got started,
you might as well try to bring some marshmallows. Have
a marshmallow rose, to bring a pig rolls, right, if
people throw your lemons, and you might as well see
if you can make lemonade out of it. This stuff
thene got out. I'm with you on that part. And
I'm saying this Shannon Sharp Tony Evans comparison. I just

(46:47):
hated that the people of the world are willing to
own their stuff and Evans is not. And if you're
saying to me that biblically there's a there's a Biblically
there's a mandate that says keep your stuff in house
and don't tell your stuff the CD details, I would

(47:08):
say that goes against the entire context of the entire
scriptures because we have CD details about everybody's stuff, So
why is Evans different?

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Go ahead, Evans, did I think what you fail to
give him credit for is he did confess. He did confess,
he just didn't give.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
You details.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
Right. So, And secondly, to your point, you said that
we have the CD details in scripture. But I believe
that the scripture was given by God to show people
that no matter what you've done, God is able to
reach you. And God has decided to show that to man.

(47:59):
And it's not doesn't mean that Tony is supposed to
take up that banter and try to play God and
expose himself just to include himself among the saints. I
just why not? Why not? I'm glad to say I
don't think that's a requirement based on what I've read.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Go ahead, finish saying with your child, because I'm coming.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
I just don't believe. I just don't believe. I believe
what Tony was did was sufficient for me. I don't know,
but for me it was sufficient. And immediately I went
to prayer for this brother because we need him. We
need him, whether we want to admit it or not,
we need it.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yeah, I agree with you about that, and I definitely
I love Tony Ms. I actually had the pleasure of
meeting him in Washington in twenty sixteen. That was that
was that was cool. You know. I definitely went to
prayer for him, just like I pray for everybody else,
because you know, I'm with you. I don't want shoot man. Listen,

(49:02):
I don't want any one of us to bring shame
to the name of Christ. But also I think that
actually just the opposite, is that the same thing that
we think could bring shame. Brother, when you confess and
you tell that stuff and you just let people know. Hey, y'all,

(49:23):
this is what I did, and this is how I
messed up. I went down this slippery slope and I
thought I would be all right. I broke this boundary
in my life. This is what ended up happening. Friend,
don't be the way I was. Yes, I've been up
on this poolpit saying what I'm saying. I've been leading you.

(49:45):
Now let me lead you again as I resign and
step back for a while and go through my time
of healing. Let me lead you again down the road
of confession. Let me lead you down the road of saying.
This platform is greater than any one person, and so

(50:07):
this is what I did. I don't want you to
do like I did, and this is how I should
have operated. I'm encouraging you to do the same or
do better than I did, be better than I was.
So for me, that would have done huge glory to God,

(50:28):
and I think the Kingdom of God would have been
better off for it. Not that you want to do
things to avoid chatter, because people going to chatter anyway,
But look at how much chatter is being created because
he didn't say it. Yeah, he didn't say what it was.
And now you got all these people able to make
up their own ideas about what he did. Go ahead,
I say, you ready with your ratchet, you really got
your cock and ready to go, go ahead and shoot.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
I don't see that. I don't see that. There's no
attention drawn like it was to Eddy Long or to
krefflo Dollar or to Joel Olstein. Nothing.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
I don't mean, you don't see that. It's the same
person who didn't know what Shannon Sharp did today. What
kind of rock you're living? One to come home?

Speaker 2 (51:09):
Man? What I'm saying is I have not heard the
the rumblings that I've heard under I mean, everywhere you go,
you see. You saw Eddie Long everywhere you turn, you
saw Krefflo Dollar everyone, you saw Joel Olstein when he
slammed the dooring that woman during the storm. When it
was like you saw, you saw it everywhere. Right with Tony,

(51:31):
it was quiet and went away. I don't know anybody
who was even talking about it other than us, But the.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
Problem is still talking about it. I promise you that
it's church.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
I haven't. I haven't seen that. But what what I
can say is that if that's what you require, then
you should deliver it, you know, because I don't think.
I think Tony Evans did what description required and and
as even I would say, uh to to give more
credence to what you're saying at bare minimum. However, if

(52:06):
it ever happens to you, then that's your cross to bear.
You should come forth and be that person say hey,
I messed up. I did it because that's what God
put on your heart to do. But for Tony Evan,
I think it was sufficient. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Well, y'all listeners, y'all get to decide. I know y'all
going to decide that I'm right, but y'all listening the
questions and comments below, I really want this from y'all. Listen,
all of you listeners, bring your comments, bring your thoughts,
and let us know. We will respond and likely what

(52:41):
we'll do is will have more content responding to your questions.
And if you got other ideas, other things, topics that
you want to explore, you got questions about where we
get the Bible from, what separates Christianity from you know,
the five percenter Islam. Like we Hey, we're gonna chop

(53:02):
this stuff up because we want you guys to go
from where you are to being able to learn how
to think better. Not just you don't think at all,
but we want you to think better. Let our ideas
do battle in the arena of debate. That's what we're
here for. So let us know, and some of y'all,
don't everybody chime in, because I know all y'all won't think.

(53:23):
I want listen, y'all, give Billiston Willie Bilson credit, Let
him know how you fell, give him a patter on
the back. Honestly tell us what you thought. Who presented
the most convincing argument? Right, Billy?

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (53:37):
Because because I want people to be clear in this
you know, in this debate forum, a debate is not
necessarily one by who's right or wrong, but it changes
the heart of those based on who presents the most
convincing argument. So you take the preponderance of evidence that

(53:59):
we've presented to you today on this topic, and you
get to decide for yourself. And fortunately will a bill
you'll agree with this that this area of confessing your
faults and how much you do it and how many
details you give, this is not one of the what
we call the tenets of the faith, where if we
disagree on those, we disagree on our philosophy altogether and

(54:23):
it cannot stand. Won't you agree with that one?

Speaker 2 (54:27):
All right?

Speaker 1 (54:28):
So good, well, why don't you brother go ahead and
give us a quick thirty second prayer, give us the
Presbyterian prayer, the short one, and we're going to close out.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Yeah, you gotta thank you for your son, the Lord
Jesus Christ and giving sending him to die on as
for us and if other pray that you use this
platform to reach your people, because your people are dying

(54:58):
out there and there. Yeah, they're walking willfully down a
dark road and will argue you down if you try
to get them to turn around or bring light or love,
and they detest love, they detest the things of God,
and they cling to the things that tickle their ears.

(55:22):
And Father, I pray that you rise up of people
that would do your will and do your bidding in
these last days Lord, for we know that you know
the devil's time is is living and it's winding down,
and he knows it, so he's wrapping up. And Father,

(55:45):
I pray that you'd reach your people here in America
and abroad. And I just thank you for all things
that you've done to secure the relationship between God and man.
And I pray that we take advantage of your gift,

(56:05):
your free gift, which is literally free Jesus name. I pray.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
Amen and Amen. That's good, all right, wille Bill. Before
we sign off, where can our listeners reach you and
get more content from you?

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Again? Right now, I'm doing a Blog's be thirteen productions.
You can find that and even google it and find it.
Find the blog. It's on Gmail platform and also YouTube.
So I haven't done anything and lately because I've had
personal struggles and I've been trying to get through those.

(56:41):
And then also again the equipment I have and I
want to bring up a better or bigger platform, because I.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Thank you for that, for the transparent confession there, brother,
thank you.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Oh, I appreciate And so I want to be able
to bring up my own website versus a blog and
put my ideas out there again so that people can talk, because,
like I said, every time I open my mouth and
I'm in the crowd of black people, I think they
try to quickly, you know, tear down the joices out

(57:16):
the ceiling and make a cross to put me on it. Right, So,
because my ideas invoke their demons. So yeah, so yeah,
so I do wish that people would chime in and
be able to debate constructively and not destructively like we

(57:39):
just did. And good, oh good, yeah that's.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
It all right, good, well, thank you, brother. I appreciate you,
and you already know how much love I got for you, brother,
and that's never going to change. So Henry Flowers, Powerful Living.
You can check us out anywhere you find podcasts. Just
look up Powerful Living Henry Flowers, just like the Roads. Also,
you can contact to me directly if you want to
leave a text message, show ideas, questions. I'm here for

(58:05):
all of that. Five one, three, four, zero, four seven,
seven nine three. If you're in the Cincinnati area, will
be meeting in person soon. I'll let you know about that.
Other than that, you can chime in on our Zoom
meetings on Sundays at ten thirty am Eastern Standard time.
That is what we are doing and what we're gonna
keep doing. So for Willie Bill, this is Henry Flowers

(58:30):
signing off until next time. Y'all. We ain't going to
where we're coming back on WILLI Bill and I'm out.
Hello Frem. Thank you so much for being with us
in this podcast over the airwaves of YouTube or wherever
you find your podcast. Thank you so much for being
a part. Make sure to subscribe, turn on notifications, and

(58:53):
feel free to share this information with anyone who you
believe could use a little bit more power in their lives.
Speaking of power, be sure to join us on Sunday
mornings as we gather together in the Cincinnati area at
five six one six Wolfpen, Pleasant Hill Road in Milford, Ohio.

(59:16):
We will be in the upper room at General Dentistry.
Ten thirty am on Sunday mornings is when we gather together.
We have an empowerment session immediately after the broadcast. This
is where the true powerful living is put into practice.
If you want to come together and work on something

(59:39):
with me one on one coaching in a group setting,
then you want to be a part of the empowerment sessions.
I cannot tell you how many testimonies and how much
transformation has occurred as a result of these empowerment sessions.
You want to be here, the church being the church,

(01:00:01):
people coming in with their stuff, working on it with me,
using biblical principles and getting real transformation in real time,
so that we ourselves can be empowered. Then we can
be able to go and empower others. My friend, that
is what powerful living is. So you definitely want to

(01:00:21):
join us in the empowerment sessions in person, and also
you can join us live via zoom and the zoom
information is in the description box. Join us ten thirty
am every Sunday, Eastern Standard time. Look forward to seeing
you there. Many of you have been asking how you

(01:00:44):
can give and support powerful living ministries. I have a
few options for you. I often go and speak to
our young people who are just living in desperate times.
I'm not really sure if I would want to be
a young person living in these times with these societal
norms that are just bang banging, banging at the door

(01:01:08):
of their moral houses and they need help. So the
help that I deliver when I go and speak to
these young people are through powerful testimonial speeches, motivational speeches,
whatever you want to call it, but biblical principles and
same things I deliver in the empowerment sessions and in
the podcast is what I deliver when I speak to
colleges and high schools. Now, I often go and speak

(01:01:31):
about what I wrote in my book, which is titled
Bored to Death Five Steps to gear Up and be
about that life. This is a pulling together of personal stories,
things that I have lived through and how I went
from where I was living on the streets of Detroit,

(01:01:52):
and how I survived the streets of Detroit and created
a life that I love. When I had all of
the optacles in my way, I had the perfect recipe
to become a statistic How did I overcome? What did
I do well? Those questions are answered in my book
Bored to Death and Five Easy Steps. I share these

(01:02:15):
steps with young people and I get transformation, and I
see transformation. Their lives are empowered on a daily basis.
This is Powerful Living in action when I go and
speak to these young people. Now, how you can come
alongside is a couple of ways. You can obviously give
directly to this ministry if you want to reach out
to us Powerful Living twenty twenty two at gmail dot com.

(01:02:40):
You can reach out to us directly and just say, hey, Henry,
how can I support your ministry financially? Also you can
text us or call, but likely a text would be
better at five one three, four zero, four seven seven
nine three. Leave us a message and just tell us

(01:03:00):
I'd like to be involved financially. How can I support
your ministry and we'll give back to you there as well. Also,
you can contact us about purchasing copies of my book
so that when I go and speak to the young
people in high school, sometimes I'll do middle schools, but
most of the time it's high school and college and
those who are usually financially constrained and don't have the

(01:03:24):
opportunity to purchase my book. If you purchase my book,
every book that you purchase will be an opportunity for
me to put another one copy of my books in
the hands of our young people, and so they can
take home the message that I deliver in person and
they can be empowered and study and see what I

(01:03:44):
did to create a life that I love, and therefore
they'll be able to see themselves doing it as well.
That's powerful living, and my friend, that is powerful giving,
and I hope you will take us up on that opportunity.
If you have feedback and you'd like to suggest a shell, topic,

(01:04:07):
content ideas, if you have questions, if I said something
that you don't agree with, whatever it is, whatever kind
of feedback that you'd like to give, bring it. You
can email us Powerful Living twenty twenty two at gmail
dot com. You can call us at five Poine three
or Zeroport seven seventy nine three. However you get your

(01:04:33):
information to us, just understand I will respond to you directly.
I am open questions, concerns, show ideas, topics, anything you
have in reference to feedback. You let me know and
especially tell us how this ministry has powerfully impacted your life,
and I will likely share that on a live broadcast.

(01:04:57):
Thank you so much for being a part of this ministe.
I can't wait to see these empowerment sessions pop up
all over the country, all over the world, and all
over the lives of people. Powerful living is.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
There for you and me.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
Thank you, my friends, God bless you.