Tales of the Titanic: Beneath Icy Waters | Paranoid American

Tales of The Titanic: Beneath Icy Waters with Thomas Gorence AKA Paranoid American.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:37):
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(01:40):
and also this might be my last show for a
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(02:01):
a while or any new videos, please just bear with
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(02:24):
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be posting on the channel members only page. But with that,

(02:45):
don we have with us today. Thomas He is a
USA f VET with ten years of animation work at
Disney Original Music, featured in TV and movies, collaborations with
Wu Tang and publishing comics under the name Paranoid American
since twenty twelve. Paranoid American. Welcome to the show, and

(03:06):
my friend, how's it going by?

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Bye bye man, Happy fabulous freaking Friday.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Dude, this feels good. I'm having a really good day
to day.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Bro. I'm glad to hear it, man, And it sounds
like we're setting you off with a good little bang
for you to move on to your next project.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, dude, it's like whenever you're I don't know, I
don't know how you work, but like I am not
the best multitasker, Like whenever I'm on like focus, like
I gotta be dialed in, Like I can't have other
things like going on, Like I gotta be dialed in,
and making a movie requires like your full attention.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, I mean, I'll foreg meals and phone calls and
just social interaction and even to the point where it's
probably unhealthy, but sometimes like I just like to completely
get into the zone in the outside world just doesn't
exist unless a pipe bursts and then I get snapped
back into reality. But otherwise I don't hear anything outside

(04:07):
my own little bubble. I don't see anything, none of that,
you know.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, that's exactly how I was when I was making
a clockwork shining dude, Like whenever I walked outside for
the first time in like two months, I was like,
what is this sun? I didn't know anything that was
going on, and you pay attention to any of it.
It was just like wake up, work on the movie.
So you go to sleep, go to sleep, dream about
the movie, wake up, immediately start working on the movie.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
So there's something called maybe this isn't the right name
for it, but I think it's called Tetris brain. And
it was when the Tetris game first came out and
people were just playing it NonStop, and it would start
to change the way that you would look at the world,
where you look at the world as if they're Tetris
blocks that you're just constantly trying to rearrange. And this

(04:54):
also happened back when I was like a full time
software developer, just coded NonStop all during the day, go
to sleep, code in my dreams, and I would get
that same version of Tetris brain where I'd wake up
in the morning and think, you know, like stand up
dot true or you know, move dot to bed or

(05:15):
something like that. Like all of my thoughts would be
in the context of trying to code. And that also
happens if I'm working on a comic script or if
I'm editing videos for two weeks straight. All of a sudden,
I'm going around through life and it's like, oh, just
truncate this car out of the way, or I'll just
like mix this down something like a baby's crying. I'll
just like, in my mind, I'm setting that fader down

(05:38):
a little bit. You know. It's hard to snap out
of one reality into the next.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
It is, dude, And editors don't get enough credit. Bro, Like,
oh my god, Bro, if you if you like these
TikTok editors, they're like, oh, I spent like two hours
on one TikTok video. I'm like, Bro, that ain't nothing. Bro,
that ain't nothing. But speaking of like video games and
like Tetris, do you remember this old conspiracy theory that

(06:07):
revolved around the CIA and like an Arcade missionus.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, the p O L Y B I U S.
As far as I know, I love the lore behind it,
but as far as I can tell, it was never
a real thing. It was sort of like one of
these urban legend plants. I want to believe it more
than anything that the CIA developed some kind of a
video game that would put you immediately into a trance.

(06:36):
It was almost like an mk ultra arcade machine that
I think was rumored to be around the seventies and
eighties or so, and there have been some faithful reproductions
of Plevious machines. And then people take a picture of
it in an old, you know, storage facility and be like,
I got I found it. I found a real copy

(06:56):
of the Polyvious arcade machine, guys. But uh, I guess
I'm just too much of a skeptic to believe even
in the premise itself, although I love it.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
I mean, it sounds like something that, let's see how
you would do. But I'm with you, I don't know
if it actually existed. But that's one of the first ones,
like a really long time ago in like the mid
He was like two thousand and seven or two thousand
and eight on like old old YouTube. That was like
one of the big conspiracies back in the day was

(07:28):
the Plebeius arcade machine that they would put in And
I can't remember exactly what did people say that they
experienced after they played the game, like hallucinations or like
what did they say that they experienced. I'd have to
brush up on it again.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, I have to brush up too. I think it
was a more mild version of The Ring where it
would it would somehow curse you in a certain way,
or you'd get sucked into the game and you would
not eat or sleep. I mean, basically, like editing a documentary.
He would just turn into an editor for a few
weeks and people freak out and it's like, guys, this
is just normal video editing. And I don't know if

(08:06):
if you're familiar with Darren Brown, he's a mentalist. He
calls himself a mentalist. He's in the UK, and he
had this one show that I can't remember the name
of it off the top of my head, but he
had kind of like a reality show where he would
go and hypnotize people on the street. And one of
the episodes was about hypnotizing this guy that went to

(08:27):
go and play a zombie video game. I assume it
was kind of like House of the Dead, that classic
Sega shooter. We're going through the haunted house and killing zombies,
and that this mentalist Darren Brown tricks a guy into
thinking that the zombies are real, and when he goes
to play this video game, he goes into a trance
and then they scoot him into this completely fabricated, very

(08:50):
real arcade level that they you know, put in like
an abandoned warehouse, and they bring him back to and
he's actually there with like these zombies coming up, and
he thinks he's in a video game. And I always
figure that that was like a polybious inspired feet. I
don't know if you've ever seen it before. If not,
I highly recommend it.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
I know that there's a Black Mirror episode just like
that where they do some kind of implant on the
people and then they have them go into this haunted
house or whatever, and then they started start like hallucinating.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
All kinds of good money for that.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
And then there's another one too that's like on Netflix
as well, that has Chris Hemsworth. I think in it
where they install like the substance in their back or
whatever where it makes them like feel different emotions or whatever.
I don't know, I don't remember the name of it
was like spider or something.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
I know you're talking about Spider Web or yeah, and
they were basically testing different levels of these emotional drugs
to see which ones will make you happy and sad.
And yeah, I mean, just for the record, I absolutely
think that this CIA does this, and I think that
they probably did try a polebous machine. I just think

(10:05):
that the effects ascribed to it are too good to
be true, too interesting to be true.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. And then you
get the copy counters and the people that will just
create actually create it like you were mentioning before, like
they created the Shazam thing from the Mendela.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Effects, Right, yeah, it's real. They'll take something that wasn't
real that turns new Mandela effect, and then they'll make
it real, which is I think is genius. It's kind
of like a genius marketing because it's already got a
campaign going. And if people are already running a campaign
for a product that doesn't exist, then obviously someone's going
to come in and just like make that thing exist.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, I would agree. So, speaking of conspiracy theories and stuff,
You've done a lot of research and a lot of
work into the Titanic, and this is one of the
more interesting, you know, theories that I think ever it's
it's been highly debated for a really long time. You

(11:09):
know what happened with the Titanic. I mean, we know
about the bankers stuff. You know that all the bankers
that opposed the Federal Reserve went down coincidentally with the Titanic, Right,
we know about that. Then there's the theory that it's
not the Titanic, and then there's the other theory that

(11:32):
nothing sank. You know, it just keeps getting wilder and
wilder as it goes on, just like it does with everything.
So what's your hypothesis on the Titanic.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
I don't know if I'm ready to make a call
as to what happened, but I usually I try to
think about it in different terms. Who are the players
and let's just to oversimplify it, Let's say there's just
a player. Let's just say the players, JP Morgan, who
represents all the interest. But he literally was the guy
that owned the line and built his own private deck

(12:07):
in the back of it and everything. So JP Morgan
is a huge name in this. And I guess the
most typical conspiracy theory was that there was this sister
ship called the Olympic, and that the Olympic got into
a wreck and it wasn't properly insured, so they kind
of did a do over. They took the Olympic, dressed

(12:27):
it up to look like the Titanic, and then sank
it so they could finally get the insurance money on it. It's
oversimplified version, but I think that that's realistic. I would say,
have there ever been instances where a business magnate sort
of insured something and then intentionally destroyed it just to
claim on the money. Of course it happens all the time.

(12:49):
It's like the most common form of insurance fraud. So
then you think, is they're an incentive? Well, yeah, because
the Olympic was not insured, so now there's a financial
incentive to do it. What are the other incentives? Well,
one is that he could take out all the opposition
to the Federal Reserve. Another one that doesn't get brought
up nearly as much as it should is that JP

(13:12):
Morgan used to be the financier of Nikola Tesla, and
then he ended up withdrawing all of his funds after
a few different events where Tesla was caught trying to
make like free energy, and I can only imagine the
conversations like you're you want to give away what now?
So he jp Morgan takes all the funding away from

(13:32):
Tesla and gives it to his rival Marconi, among others,
And on the Titanic was also John Jacob Astor, who
was Tesla's only remaining financier and also coincidentally one of
those guys that was in opposition to the Federal reserve
that that actually could have made it difficult. So now

(13:53):
you've got this triple incentive as to why you might
want to take out this one guy on this boat,
and instead of just having a single person assassinated, if
you can turn this entire tragedy and use this as
a smoke screen. Okay, maybe that's a little overboard pun
intended a little bit, maybe, like why would you sink

(14:13):
this entire big boat and this huge production of it
being on fire and then sinking in the middle of
the night amongst all these icebergs. Well, if you do
want to start a federal reserve, you know what else
you need is you need a whole bunch of money
to back that thing, And at this point the only
reliable money you could back something with would have been gold.

(14:36):
So another one of the theories is that the Titanic
sank because they were smelting gold near the hull, which
compromised the integrity of the hull of the ship. And
then when they brought it into these freezing waters, it
was to counteract the fact that these engine rooms were
just burning and smelting gold NonStop for days and days,

(14:57):
and the excuse about the life being gone. One of
the excuses is, oh, it was it was just hubris.
It was that they figured this ship will never sank,
we don't even need these escape boats. Or maybe the
escape boats were used to get all of the smelted
gold off the ship and over on the shore. So

(15:18):
one of the most outlandish but most interesting theories on
the Titanic is that it sank because they were using
it to melt down cars and bedposts and all sorts
of mundane objects that were made out of actual gold
and then painted to look like they were normal, and
they were using this to then fund the Federal Reserve.

(15:39):
So making a judgment call on how it happened and
why it happened all this, I think it makes more
sense to just line up, what are all the incentives?
Are there more than a few? Yes? Okay, who could
have been in charge and pulled these strings. JP Morgan, Yes,
would he have? I think so so. I mean all

(16:00):
of the the formulas kind of there right, the recipe
and all the ingredients are laid out. So now it's
just like did he did he bake the cake or not?

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Well, I wouldn't put it put it past them to
eliminate a bunch of people just to eliminate one. I
mean that makes a lot of sense. I think we've
seen that several times over, so do you. Because the
rumor is is that something was wrong with the Titanic.
The Titanic couldn't actually get out there, so then they
just switched the holts of the Titanic and the Olympia

(16:34):
was it. It was the Olympia, right, or the Olympic
Olympic to the Olympic, and that's what went out there,
and then it hit an iceberg. But have we had
any other ships ever hit an iceberg in sinc since
the Titanic?

Speaker 2 (16:53):
I mean, the Titanic is a little bit of one
of those nine to eleven instances where it's it's a
historic one event when just the perfect storm happens and
just like nine to eleven, all of the important people
just happened to get a call days before that had
them change their plans and just ever so conveniently seemed

(17:15):
to work out very well for anyone that was pro
Federal Reserve, and if you were anti Federal Reserve and
on the boat, just you know, again the perfect storm.
That was the biggest stroke of luck for all those
early proponents. And not to mention too that the astor
and some of the other people that died on the

(17:36):
Titanic were also members of this Jucko Island Hunt Club,
which was also something that Morgan was a part of,
and they already that this is where the Federal Reserve
got planned from as well. So the Jucko Island Hunt
Club is another one of these very strong leads if
you're interested in Titanic conspiracies. It's a thread that I

(17:57):
think is hard to dismiss entirely.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, it's just kind of suspicious, like no other ship
has ever hit an iceberg out there, and no other
ship has ever seen by hitting an iceberg, Like what's
really going on?

Speaker 2 (18:12):
Well, there's also a theory of could the ship have
even hit an iceberg and that have happened Some of
the other theories about the Titanic is that it was
rammed by another boat, that it was intentionally pierced in
the hull and it sank, and not not you know,
not on accident because of an iceberg, because it was
meticulously planned and strategically planned to hit it in the

(18:35):
weak spot in which that engine room I'm just going
to make up a number. I think it was engine
room eleven was on fire for like three or four
days straight and that was the specific place in which
the hole had been weakened, and then just hit it
in the right spot and then blame it on an iceberg,
because if you wanted to sink the ship for insurance purposes,

(18:57):
it's I mean, it seems unlis likely that you would
just leave it up to chance that you hit an
iceberg at the right spot and at the right time
that does everything you needed to do, versus if you
really were making this an insurance scam, making sure that
it sank and not leaving it up the chance.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
It seems weird that. I mean, the Titanic was like hell,
it was like an unsinkable ship, right And I think
like way back in the day when I first learned
about the Titanic or heard of the Titanic. I was like, okay,
well maybe they were just out there kind of like
playing games like this is an unsinkable ship. It doesn't matter.
We're going to full fledged hit this freaking iceberg. And

(19:39):
then it's just and you know, the captain was like,
it's unsinkable. Nothing could sink the ship, and I'll prove
it right now by hitting this gigantic iceberg, you know
what I mean. That would be something that would be
really funny if it was true. But you know, like
people play games like all the time, you know it
could have been. But it's definitely definitely like a tentacle

(19:59):
type thing, and it's not happening just for one reason.
There's multiple reasons, like you've just laid out.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Another wild one too, is that there was a book
that was written in like eighteen ninety eight called Futility
with the subtitle was called Wreck of the Titan and
it was about a huge ship that was too big
to fail called the Titan in which pretty much the
exact same scenario plays out. And this is roughly fifteen

(20:30):
years or so before the Titanic actually sets out. So
it always is interesting to me when these huge historical
tragedies happen, and then you realize, oh, there was a
book about this exact thing happening, Beat for beat that
had come out five or ten years earlier. There's I mean,
this is an example you can bring up on a

(20:52):
lot of Oklahoma City is another example of this one.
Nine to eleven's another example, this one where fictional works
spell out exactly actly what ends up happening in real life.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, there's several of those, and Kubrick is known for
that as well. I mean, he had a Catcher in
the Rye in The Shining a year before both the
attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan and the the full fledged
assassination of John Lennon, where Catcher in the Rye was

(21:25):
on the scene, Like, how did he know that Catcher
in the Rye was going to be used in both
of those assassinations. And then especially with like you know,
art mimicking reality with uh Lolita and Sue Lyon. I mean,
the same thing that that movie was about was actually

(21:46):
happening to Sue Lyon in real life behind the scenes
with Kubrick's producer, like it's just insanity. And then and
then also with the you know, the Shining as well.
I mean what he was doing to the asked and
the crew of the Shining Michelley Duval's kind of what
played out the rest of her life.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
There's so many other I mean, we could start getting
into like the occult ties too. If you're bringing up Kubrick,
that's usually implied. And I think the same thing happened
here with the Titanic because JP Morgan. First of all,
there were multiple boats involved with the Titanic wreck, and
they were all owned by JP Morgan except for one,

(22:31):
which was the Kooner Carpathia. That was the only one
that wasn't under his control. But at the time of
the Titanic sinking, JP Morgan owned the White Star, he
owned Dominion, Mississippi, Leyland American, one called the Red Star,
and then one called Furnace with the which was it

(22:52):
included this carbo vessel called the Rappin Hook, and the
rabin Hook is the one that is supposed to have
been the one that rammed it. If you go down
this rabbit hole of intentionally sinking the Titanic and not
accidentally hitting something for the cult sort of like going
off on a limb. The first thing that was reported
right before the Titanic ends up sinking was and it

(23:15):
wasn't an iceberg, it was a quote black mass. So
I can't get out of my head that this was
literally a mass sacrificial ritual, a black mass, and that
it was this white star. It was on a white
star line. So this is like the falling Star mass

(23:36):
ritual also known as a black mass, caused by JP
Morgan on behalf of I don't know, maybe the Jesuits.
I mean, it depends on how far you want to
follow those threads. But it might not also just be
this very clinical I need to take out the opposition
for money and political reasons. I'd never discount the fact

(23:56):
that maybe also there's some Phoenician Carthaginyan magic at play
as well.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
What did the survivors of the Titanic say happened? Because
how many people survived Titanic? It was quite a few, right,
A bunch of them got off on life ROMs. Correct.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah, In fact, a large number of people could have
survived if there had just been more of a plan
and less frantic running around and causing mistakes like that.
There wasn't a reason that it needed to have mass
casualties other than just poor planning.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, it kind of seems like I mean, but in
like a scenario like that, Bro, everyone's gonna get everyone's
gonna get a little crazy, They're gonna get a little wild.
Have you looked into the Philadelphia Experiment not the shift Gears.
I definitely want to talk more about the Titanic.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
I mean definitely, this one's come up. I've seen I
don't remember what the movie was, but there was a
movie that actually shows the guys getting fused into the
side of the boat. And also, this one comes up
a lot in the Project Monarch stuff, especially like the
Montauk series with the Preston B. Nichols and Peter Moon

(25:16):
I think a few different of those names, but that
one also heavily relies on a lot of the claims
made by the Philadelphia Experiment. And just to restate to
make sure that I'm up on this, this is where
the military or someone had technology that could phase a
physical object and everyone on it, like a big battle cruiser,
and all the crew out of existence or out of

(25:38):
our timeline, and then back into our timeline, and that
when the ship reappeared, it was like, I don't know,
a couple millimeters off, or it was like a couple
inches off from where it was supposed to be, which
resulted in people being fused into the ship because I
guess someone didn't carry the one. I don't really, I
don't really exactly understand how it happened, but that what happened, right,

(26:03):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
That's the rumor. That's the rumor of what happened. But
like you mentioned, it's kind of based off of a movie.
It's a based off of a movie called The Philadelphia Experiment.
Before Preston Nichols ever came out and started talking about
all the mon Talk project and basically just ripping off
the movie The Philadelphia Experiment for his entire space adventure

(26:26):
nonsense garbage.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
My understanding too, is that the original movie of Philadelphia
Experiment was based on them trying to create some sort
of anti radar technology and that successfully, if you were
just watching it on a radar, you'd see the little
blip not be there, and then the next time around
it would be there again, and maybe if that little

(26:49):
blip had just shifted ever so slightly so then it
became theorized like, oh what if in order to evade
the radar technology. It actually phased out of exist and
then phased back into existence, and that's what caused this
like fusion premise, But it could be as boring and
as simple as they were just testing out some sort

(27:11):
of radar avoiding technology and this was sort of a
legend born out of that.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah, this movie came out in nineteen eighty four, the
Philadelphia Experiment, and then Presston Nichols was like mid nineties.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
And then Tom Hanks gets aids at the end too, right.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
Oh, he has to every movie that he's in. Yeah,
the whole thing is basically just a rip off of
this movie. So someone just watched this movie and then
wrapped it into their story.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
I feel like it's the origin story for a lot
of conspiracy and sci fi paranormal stories, as someone saw
a TV show or a movie and they were like,
that really happened. Here's my story.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yep, that's literally the basis of I would say ninety
percent of this stuff.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Well, and it just turns into like a feedback chamber,
right because Philadelphia Experiment then inspires the Montauk Chronicles. The
Montak Chronicles then inspires say like Stranger Things Stranger Things
then is going to end up getting a lot of
new people into the fold that have never heard of

(28:31):
Montauk Chronicles or about the Philadelphia experiment, even though it's
just the same story being repeated and sort of throwing
a little Dungeons and Dragons, throwing a licensed Lego set
and some Happy Meal toys and it's just the same
thing over and over again.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yeah. How many people since Stranger Things has come out
and have claimed that they were the real life eleven.
I think at least like three people.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
I might have interviewed more than one.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
I was a real life eleven, I promise, and I
swear yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
I get it though, because there was this very real
phenomenon that when I was a younger kid, man, I
swear to you, my parents went and brought me to
see like three Ninjas, and I was a ninja for
the next three days.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
There is no bro, I love three Ninjas.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Bro, I nothing will say. At that point, things are
getting knocked over. I'm trying to get into fights with people.
I think I can do backflips that like you transport,
especially as a kid in a cinema, because the amount
of time you go and see a two hour movie. Right,
That two hours in relation to your waking life as

(29:41):
a seven year old is a substantial amount of your lifetime.
It represents like an entire percentage point almost. So as
soon as you see a ninja movie, you become a
ninja for about a week or until you get grounded.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Bro. I was a power ranger for like freaking five years.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
Bro. It's dangerous. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
I was beating up pillows. I was like throwing freaking
grocery bags up in the air so many times I
can hit the grocery bag before it fell to the ground.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
Bro, And then it's just a short step before you're
doing Naruto runs at Area fifty one. It's all sort
of the same larp.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Also, I was a wrestler. I was a pro wrestler
for a couple of years as well.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
That one is kind of living on the edge, right
where you have an actual life that teeters on what's
real and what's fake. And the entire skill is being
able to not break one side or the other.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, Bro, I mean when when were kids. I mean,
but that doesn't take away from you know, people that
may have actually experienced things whenever they were a kid.
I mean, there have you ever heard of the Indian
Lakes Project.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
I don't think so. No, what's the Indian Lakes Project?

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Well, it's pretty mu like this blog that was started
in the early two thousands where supposedly this guy's uncle
found an old metal box when he was hiking in
around Indian Lakes, New York, and he put it on
the shelf. He didn't open it up, and when he
passed away, his nephew found the box and he opened

(31:19):
it and supposedly had pictures in it and film reels
and classified documents of this project that was in upstate
New York called the Indian Lakes like Indian Lakes, New York,
that had to do with like experimentation on children, and

(31:39):
it was supposedly ran by the military, and it was
a military base that used to be in the area,
and a few of the photos and the pictures were
posted and some of the other contents of the box
this guy apparently had, but he never really showed the

(32:00):
full documents. There was also a film reeal in it
as well. And I don't really know what to think
about it. It's a really interesting, weird mystery and the
guy just kind of all of a sudden stopped posting,
and he'd also But the thing about it too is
he was like posting like stock images that he took

(32:21):
and a bunch of fake stuff. But I don't know,
it was really interesting and some of it was no
one had ever they couldn't find the photos or where
the photos came from. And then he also apparently found
an abandoned underground base there as well, and he took

(32:44):
photos and he like diagrammed it all out, and like
there was these cots and stuff down there in this space.
And this was like in the early two thousands too,
So this wasn't like something new or when photoshop or
AI was is a type of thing that not sing
that it can't be done. I'm sure it could have
been done in there early two thousands. I mean pretty

(33:07):
sure the military and the government had all this stuff
that were just now getting around, you know.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah, like that specific instance, did that happen? Was it
called the Indian Lakes Project and all that? Maybe maybe not,
It would be hard to tell right the first time
I'm hearing about the specific one. But if the premise
was just that there were top secret projects experimenting on kids,

(33:33):
we already got plenty examples of those on the books.
So if that's the part that makes it unbelievable or
you know, like like noteworthy, so many other examples that
would back up and say, yeah, they probably were. Like three,
off the top of my head, there were three sub
projects under mk Ultra. There was a sub project one

(33:54):
OZ three, which was the CIA putting kids in summer camps.
There was subproject one twelve that were they were doing
vocational studies on children. And then there was a sub
project one seventeen called Cultural Influences on Children, and this
was basically them running like a mini un with kids

(34:15):
from all over the world, and it was these ones
were very tamed. These ones were pretty much the CIA
grooming future agents or future assets that were positioned all
over the world, right, which is kind of that the
CIA's bread and butter is to have international intelligence operatives
just feeding them information, but to imply that the CIA

(34:37):
was maybe testing and experimenting on kids or involving them
unwittingly in underground operations like Get in Line. There's so
there's an endless number of examples of that.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Yeah, one O three subproject one O three UH was
the Children's International Summer village where they had all the
kids and they brought them all together to be a
summer camp, and then they were studying them to see
how they would communicate with each other and how that
they could basically groom them to be a part of

(35:09):
like these like ambassador things. And it was like all
of like mixed race of of kids.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, like boy Scouts meets the UN but the CIA
is driving the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah, yeah, and uh, but what was interesting about the
Indian Lakes project was that no one could find out
any information on it. And you're you're probably right, it
probably wasn't called that it was. It might have been
something different. But it was like the if the base

(35:43):
ever did really exist, then it was just completely wiped
off the map. Like they just completely destroyed the base
and like erased everything from it. And you know, apparently
this box that this guy has that no longer posts
on anything he hasn't been active in like twenty years,
over twenty years, had the remnants and photos and proof

(36:07):
of this program and this military base actually existing. So
I don't know, I thought it was really interesting.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
There's a little there's a little spin of like a
Preston Nichols thing on that too, because that's some of
the claims made about Campiro or somewhat similar, that they
had an underground base, that they were stocking it with children,
and that when the military wrapped up that project, that
they basically took all the evidence with them, even though

(36:38):
people later on, decades later were breaking in the Campiro
and finding all these this old equipment and going inside
the actual radar tower and all this. So sometimes there
it could be a mixture, right, like something was happening there,
but we'll never really know exactly what it was.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah, one of them big old mysteries, good old mystery
box for us there. But yeah, they have been they've
been doing that kind of stuff for a really long time.
It's just this one was like it was early two thousand.
It's really weird. And some of the stock photos could
be explained away now because people have been I mean

(37:20):
that that was like the year of like two thousand
is whenever that blog spot blog posts first started, so
some of those photos could have became stock photos in
the years since, and they might not have been stock photios.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
Well, this is before anyone lied on the internet early
two thousands, no one like it was pretty much all
truth back then.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
Maybe maybe I'm sure there.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
Was no one would have lied on the Internet in
the early two thousands. Man, we were too innocent and fragile.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
You get all MySpace days, dude, my Space for days.
So doesn't you of this connect to like the Satanic
panic stuff? Like, since we're on this topic of like
kids and experimentation on kids, how does this wrap into

(38:19):
the Satanic panic days?

Speaker 2 (38:24):
I think the easiest connection, at least in my mind,
is just secret societies and intelligence agencies. And if you
were to say Satanism, which is a very wide net
to cast, right, because there's so many versions of what
you might consider Satanism. But even under that huge umbrella,

(38:46):
these smaller groups they do tend to follow if not
a secret society structure, it's a mystery school structure. And
once you can get someone to admit like, Okay, I'm
not in a secret society, but I am in a
as I mystery school, and it's like potato potato a
little bit, because mystery schools kind of were the prototype
for secret societies before there was a necessity to focus

(39:11):
on the secrecy aspect of that. So Satanism and a
lot of the variations of that they are ripe for
infiltration by intelligence agents because A it's a group that
prides itself on being able to keep secrets. And if
you're keeping secrets, it means that you have some sort
of information it might be helpful. Who knows to the

(39:33):
outside world it doesn't have access to it. So creating
a secret society or joining a coven or any of these,
it's almost just like going fishing to be infiltrated by
filling the blank FBI, atf CIA, you know what I mean, NSA,
But they become magnets for these things. And you can

(39:53):
find this going all the way back all the occultiest writers,
all those spy novel writers, like they were deep into
both worlds. They were into military intelligence and into occultism.
Some of the claims that Alistair Crowley was like an
MI five six guy, that Fleming was deeply involved in
both a cult and in military intelligence, and they had

(40:15):
like these inside connections. So I think that whenever you've
got a group, say even the Jecko Island Hunt Club,
which is not far removed from say the Skull and
Bones at Yale, which they themselves take part in activities
even outwardly that could be construed as satanist. I mean,
it depends again on how wide you're willing to allow

(40:39):
that word to have a definition. But if you were
to walk into an initiation ritual in the tomb, and
you've got a naked future president, you know, doing things
with his naked body inside of a coffin as everyone
stands around and records it, I could forgive someone for saying,
like I think that that was a Satanic ritual. So

(40:59):
here we've got very direct connection with occultism and satanism
and military intelligence and basically any sort of massive scale,
planned false flag trauma based attack that could be harvested
for all sorts of political reasons.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
Rob oz as here, I was in Red Cross Youth.
It was like a un style organization.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
I got a fun fact on Red Cross that the
Red Cross's first domestic tragedy that they tended to was
the Jonestown flood or the Johns Town flood, not Jonestown
Johnstown flood and the Johnstown flood rusty on the details here,
but I believe it was the Carnegie was working on

(41:48):
some sort of a refinery and they had this whole
Johnstown that was kind of in the way, and they
were complaining about the runoff from the steel mill and
all these things that were going on, and they end
up plugging a dam and then letting it burst and
it completely floods this entire Johnstown area, which works out
great for the factory owners because now they don't have

(42:09):
this pesky town complaining about all their runoff. And the
Red Cross was the that was like their first domestic mission.
And again, depending on how conspiratory you want to be,
but that very well could have been a planned like
a planned failed event, that that was a natural disaster
that was caused on purpose by corporate industry in order

(42:32):
to just clear out the land so that they could
expand without you know, unbridled, without any anyone complaining or
getting in their way. So the Red Cross might have
very early on immediately been part of the system and
just a complete syop.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
I remember that, wasn't that that was a slave town,
wasn't it? Or was it a that got flooded by
the dam.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
I know that it was a town. It was not
an affluent town.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
Because there's a few of them that are like that
around the United States where they just completely flooded it
they busted a damn and then just completely flooded the
entire study. And I think that one of them was
because they thought that a African American man raped a

(43:26):
young white woman and then they just came in and
cleared them all out of the town and then flooded
their town. Don't quote me on which one that one was,
but I remember watching a documentary about it, and then
scuba divers like go down there all the time and
bring up these like like relics of this old town.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Just fun American history, that's all it is.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
Yeah, that's uh, it's like okay, well, I mean California.
The center of California used to be a giant lake. Dude,
huge lake just in the center of California, and then
they drained that lake and now it's like all land.

(44:22):
It says that they drained it for the farmers or whatever,
but like pretty much all of northern California used to
be a giant lake.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
Well in the state of Florida and New York City,
right they were both just swamp land until they drained
it and decided that this is where they're going to
put the headquarters.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Posting it up dune that a mud flood, Bro.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
I mean, is there an intent of building on top
of an area that you know, if it if it
goes untended, that it'll just naturally seccee back into nature.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
Mud flood, Dude, That's what it is.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Where are you at on mud flood?

Speaker 1 (45:08):
It's a mud flood, Bron.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
Well, I know you can say it because there's there's
at least two kinds of mud flood. There's the laser
melting land mud flood, and then there's just sort of
a you know, a diluvian story mud flood where instead
of just water wiping the earth, it's mud that kind
of hits the reset button.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
I'm not sure on the mud flood stuff or the
mud flood theories, but I do believe that there have
been buildings that have been built on top of other buildings.
I mean, you can just look at Russia and you
can see layers upon layers of buildings built on top
of other buildings, and the people that are on those
buildings don't even know that there's twelve stories of buildings

(45:54):
underneath them.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Any temple that the Vatican never put up.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
Yeah, or like I mean, you can go to San Francisco, Bro,
and you can see like I mean, I wouldn't recommend
going to San Francisco, uh, but if you did, you
can kind of look around and be like this, some
of the buildings seem super freaking old, like really old, bro. Like,

(46:20):
the architecture is like insane. And I do think that
there's some trickery and some stuff going on with the
World's Fairs as well. I think that that had to
be there's something more going on there. And then when
you look at like the Great Fires, like it's weird,
bro Like, so many fires like broke out in the

(46:41):
eighteen hundreds into the nineteen hundreds, just like eradicating everything.
Like huge fires just all break out like simultaneously and
just like burn everything, and then it's just rebuilt in
like two years. That's what the Chicago World's Fair was about,
was bringing people back to Chicago because of the fires.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
Cool because the cow kicked over the Lantin.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
And they wanted to bring everyone into the Chicago bring
everyone back to Chicago when they rebuild it in like
two years, I'm like, you're telling me that you rebuild
this entire city after it was decimated by a giant
fire in like two years. They give me a break, dude.
I mean, how long does it take to build a building? Now, Dude,

(47:30):
it takes like five, six, sometimes ten years. There'll be
in construction for freaking ever. Bro, building a whole city
in freaking two years.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Come on, well, I mean again, this is also when
I think you could send your like fourteen year olds
off to work on the building as well. Though, so
we got we got more red tape too. It's it's
kind of goes both ways.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
And then it's like, where did all these people come from?
Where did all the kids come from? And you're telling
me everybody that traveled to the World Fair in Chicago
and all these fairs that we had over here, we
had like three really big ones, one in Chicago, won
in uh New York, another one in California, and there
was like babies there, Bro, there was like just babies

(48:15):
in freaking incubators. Where did all these babies come from?
And whose babies were they? And whose mothers just let
these babies be on display? And why were people walking
around acting like this is the first time that they
had ever seen a baby? And then not only that,
like all the people that are coming over from England

(48:36):
on boats, all of them made it. There wasn't one
not one ship hit an iceberg, did not one ship
h I and everyone made it bro miraculously.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
It's it's funny how safe we are before someone decides
they want to build a central bank. As soon as
someone thinks of it, all of a sudden, there's like
thousands of death. It just kind of happens. It's part.
It's part of the sacrifice in order to get the
central bank.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
If we're being real here, I think that the world's
fair if they weren't something more than what people think
that they are, and they weren't just some kind of
you know, let's get everybody in the world. Let's get
all the entire population in the United States. Let's cram
them in here. We don't have a place for them
to stay. Where they going to be? Where all these horses?
Where's all the horse shit? You know, how did they
build all this stuff? Take all that out of the window, Okay,

(49:37):
erase all that. I do believe that it was a
a programming thing, because everything that happened during the World's
Fairs is the types of things that we like. There
was a lot of things that was introduced there. A
consensus was introduced at the World's Fair. You would get

(49:57):
these tickets where you would write your name down, your
birth date and like you would get like a pass
or whatever. It was like a consensus they were trying
to keep track of everybody that was there, and then
you would, you know, pay your money and then you
get like these tickets. It's the first time this type
of thing was ever introduced, right, and a lot of
it was it was called a World's Fair passport was

(50:21):
what it was called. And then they and then they
had like side show attractions like they would do like
reenactments like all this kind. They had freak shows and
like all this stuff and people had never seen this before.
And that's leaving out the other really crazy stuff that
was apparently there as well, like moving sidewalks and freaking

(50:43):
electric cars and that's all reported to have been there,
but no one really knows. And like electricity, you know,
and like all this stuff bro that no one had
ever seen before ever. And then it just looks like
Rome was built in downtown Chicago in two years. It
is giant freaking stadiums in these It's it's wild. But

(51:09):
all of that aside, it was definitely like a like
a type of programming for the types of things that
we like take for granted.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
Now, I thing also it could act as prototypes for
the whole fifteen minute city idea where once you get
into this small little area, guess what, through technology, every
single desire or need you have can be fulfilled in
walking distance. And that even the creation of these plaster

(51:45):
of Paris or not whatever, like old world style, but
just having them set up to show people that came
from far and wide of like, hey, look, if you
lived here, you'd be home by now. You wouldn't have
to leave this this small little area. Because whenever someone
describes the original purpose of these earlier world fairs, all
I can think of is Epcot or Walt Disney World,

(52:07):
you know, or Disneyland.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Yeah, that's what it seems like. It seems like they
built a gigantic Disneyland and then I had, like all
these people come and show up for it.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
Well, I see this too, kind of the way that
old cathedrals will be described that if you lived in
an area where you probably weren't even gonna move more
than fifty miles away from where you're born, you're gonna
die somewhere close to that, And that the most extravagant
experience a lot of people had was just going to

(52:41):
church on some major days, because you go into church
and you see the stained glass and you smell all
these new smells of frankincense and myrhr, and you hear
these acoustics, You see these well you know, masoned sort
of stones and textures. You walk into these big cathedrals

(53:02):
and you're just blasted on all of your senses, you know,
like it basically transports you to a completely different reality
and now you're so much more impressionable. So anything that
you receive in this heightened state of sensory overload, it
kind of cuts through all the extra barriers and logic
gateways that it normally has to go through. And I

(53:24):
think that these world fairs kind of did something similar,
but to the secular mind, where you didn't have to
believe that you just entered some you know, sanctity of
like a holy area, and that the the stained glass
windows and the murr and all this was a spiritual experience,
but you would get the exact same outcome where you're like,
oh my god, I'm surrounded by all this amazing technology.

(53:46):
I can't believe how far we are? What's that a television?
You know? Is that a horse over there? How do
they make this entire city in the last you know,
two years or whatever. I think that that also is
the same way of shocking your senses, so that any
new information they present just becomes the new standard for
you and you don't question it, because how could you

(54:08):
question anything when you're just surrounded by so many things
that are blowing your mind.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
That's a really good explanation. Have any of your original
music that's been on TV and music, I mean and
movies ever went double murr done.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
No, I've never never got the nice like platinum you know,
record or anything. Usually, my claims the fame are the
songs that got stolen by a bigger artists and then
they went on to get a lot more recognition from them.
I think my most famous one is I had a
whole bunch of music that was placed on Adult Swim

(54:49):
in the early two thousands, like between the Little Bumpers
and one of the guys that I was collaborating with
way back then, this is like two thousand and three
or two thousand and four was Flying Lotus, and he
went on to do like the Tron soundtrack, and he's
got like Grammys and stuff. But I had one song
that played before. I think it was in an Awkwartine

(55:12):
Hunger Force, and the sample someone like sampled my entire beat,
and then that ended up getting lifted by Currency, and
then Currency played it and it became like a huge
hit for him. So I don't get any royalties from it,
but I definitely like, I feel like at least that
many people have heard that song, and I've got so

(55:33):
many more. For part of the reason why, once I
got into the music industry, I kind of hated every
part of it, even though I felt like I had
reached the pinnacle of what I wanted, and then I realized, oh,
this is not what I wanted at all.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
That's wild, dude. That's like they don't want the little
person getting any other credits, so they just steal your
shit and then make it seem like that it's their own,
and then.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
It's so easy.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
They're like they approved people, they approved people to be
able to do it, and you're not the approved person,
so therefore you have to take the back burner seat.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
Correct. Yeah, And if you don't have a legal team
on your behalf, then there's really no reason even fighting it,
and that's sort of status quo, man. I mean, yeah,
every part of the music industry, once you see how
the sausage gets made is just to me, it was
incredibly unappealing. It was the opposite of what And I

(56:31):
mean this was early. This was me as soon as
I got out of the military. I was, I don't know,
twenty one, twenty two, and I was like, I just
want to work in recording studios. So I was still
kind of wet behind the ears. Had just gotten out
into the real world because I went from you know,
living with my parents in high school to living with
my parents in the military, but my new parents being

(56:54):
Uncle Sam and you know everyone else that controlled my life.
So once I got out of that and had true
for him for the first time, I was kind of
like a babe into the new world. And yeah, started
working in a recording studio, started getting music placed, and
then slowly realized that it wasn't the fantasy that I
had built up in my head over the first you know,
two decades in my life.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
Yeah, why would they want to build up somebody that
is completely unknown and give them all the money whenever
they can just take what you're doing and they get
all the money.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
And I didn't have like a dad that knew someone
that you could, you know, sort of finagle me into
credits on an album in order to get access to
someone else that I knew or was related to. It's
kind of how it works. It's just like a Game
of Thrones music edition.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
Oh wait, so your dad wasn't the head of the Pentagon.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
Right, it would have helped. Yeah, if dad had been
in military intelligence, I might have broken into the music industry.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
Quicker, bro, What a shame, dude, what a shame. But
that seems to be the way that it works with
every kind of industry. It doesn't matter if you're an inventor,
you're a musician. If you're like bottom down on the
totem bowl, then you're gonna kind of get screwed at

(58:12):
every angle.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
Right, even if you have some kind of ingenuity and
create something new, it's so easy for patents to be
stolen or misappropriated. And I mean the history books are
filled with this. Not to get all left wing and
liberal or anything, but like the whole Howard Zen's People's
History of the United States. I don't think that's all

(58:35):
made up and all just psyops like that. I think
that there are a decent amount of vignettes in that collection.
So I don't know if you're familiar with this book,
it was kind of like if you were forced to
read Noam Chomsky, you probably were also forced to read
this Howard Zen book. But it basically just counts all

(58:55):
of the unsung heroes, all the people that almost made
it and that were robbed the last second, which I
think constitutes a more accurate representation of American history. And
it's not just always the Robert Barons and them writing,
you know, the history written by the victors. There are
so many examples where history is created by not the victors,

(59:18):
but their stories don't necessarily always get made into Netflix movies.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
Yeah, there's this guy named Max Martin, and he has
been reported to be like the number one most successful
songwriter in the past like twenty years. He's like apparently
written like every big hit, I want it that way,
maybe one more time, It's my life, a lot of

(59:45):
Taylor Swift's shake it Off, though she reports to write
all of her songs. He won GRAMMYO the year I.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Was told this was a pro Taylor Swift podcast. Don't
go pulling the rug out from under me.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Now, Well, you can't make a claim that you write
all of your songs when you don't write all of
your songs. Like if some if one person wrote one
of your songs and you can't say and you let's
say someone wrote one of them and you wrote the
other ten that's on the album. You can't say that
you wrote all the songs.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
I mean you can say it, Yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Mean you could say it, but it's not going to
be accurate. But that's what we're about here on Raised
by Giants is accuracy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Bro. Maybe, I mean I think that there's also an
argument to be made that lying is just another rhetorical device,
and any rhetorical device, even if it's a logical fallacy
like a lie would be, doesn't mean that it's invalid
in being used to sway public opinion. Right, Like if

(01:00:54):
I attack you with an ad hominem fallacy, but I
know that the audience listening to us will fall for
that ad hominem and they will no longer give credit
to anything that you say, then it's completely valid for
me to use that ad hominem in the exact same way.
That if I know my audience will believe a lie

(01:01:15):
and it'll win win them over to my side of
the argument, then there's no reason not to lie. So
why not say I write all my songs if you
know that you're sick of fan fan base is going
to one hundred percent believe you and almost fight to
the death anyone that tries to contradict that. Right, that's just.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
Not the type of person that I would be. You know, like,
I don't see any honor, no honor in that my
personal opinion.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
You know, well, you're not also not the number one,
you know songwriter that writes all of their own songs
and travels the world. But she doesn't, right, I don't know.
But the history is written by the victors, right, and
I feel like she's a victor in this case.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
What the I mean? Yeah, she definitely is. She has
a very very loyal fan base, broom.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Well, and it's it's like an attainable thing. I think
she represents mediocrity in a way that everyone can relate to. Right,
She doesn't necessarily represent this impossible to attain personality or
skill set or any of that. It kind of represents
the true false American dream of anyone can be president.

(01:02:42):
You know that's it's kind of like the musical version
of that. And I gotta I have a whole tangent
on Taylor's Swift. By the way, that not joking. I
believe that there's a possibility that Taylor Swift is a
DARPA funded project. And part of the reason that I
say this is because when I first joined the military

(01:03:03):
in two thousand and one, I remember going to the
BX on base and this is in Texas, and I
believe it. At this point, Taylor Swift was in Tennessee
and in Nashville, and she was trying to rise through
the ranks. Basically from Nashville and all the way out
in San Antonio, Texas. Her albums were in all the

(01:03:24):
px's on the end caps when you went to go
and check out and buy all your stuff. And this
is when she was I think still like fifteen or something.
These were hand printed CDRs that were kind of like
hand shrink wrapped and stuff. This was not a professional
release that came directly from BMG or any of the
other typical outlets. And I even remember thinking at that time,

(01:03:47):
who is this like fifteen year old and how do
they have their album releases in a freaking military px
where there's no other albums anywhere on here. Like, someone's
got to have a strong connection to even be able
to have distribution in such a weird spot on these
end caps. And this is before anyone really knew who
she was, and then come to find out years later

(01:04:09):
she becomes this this huge thing, And it wasn't that
big of a surprise to me because I just remember thinking,
even as she's getting big, like, oh, this is that
girl that had that crazy distribution deal that had her
music placed in all military bases all across the domestic
United States. And I mean, I've never heard that kind
of strategy before, where it's like, hey, we've got this

(01:04:29):
new artist, we're gonna do something different. We're gonna make
sure that every military base has access to this artist music,
not even in like the music sections, like you know,
on the way to check out, next to the cigarettes
and the bubblegum. We're just gonna have this little girl's album.
So I firmly believe that there is a military connection

(01:04:50):
to Taylor Swift that just hasn't been fully revealed yet.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
I would agree with that. Max Martin most successful Scots
songwriter in the last twenty years. Just turn on the
top forty radio and you will hear one of his songs,
Bake It Off, a song recorded by Taylor Swift. Okay,
so he wrote bake it Off. Okay, Taylor, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
I don't want to. I believe Taylor. I am. We're
team Taylor here.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
No, but somebody else was. I think that was a
popular Well, it wasn't popular, but that's something that people
were saying around. I think it was whenever she came
out in like an endorse Biden or whatever, and then
like there was like a bunch of news people. There's
been a lot of like plays to like try and
take down Taylor Swift, but it like never works, dude,

(01:05:49):
never works. She's like a she's a machine. But what
also is interesting, I think she was really young whenever
she did her first album, she made have been one
of the only child stars that really turned out okay
and didn't go down like a huge drug induced thing

(01:06:14):
and then die of some overdose. I mean, we see
how like Justin Bieber is acting right now. He he
might he might be the next one to go to
be honest, but a lot of them like, well, I
guess Justin Timberlake. I think Justin timerly counts. He was
in the Disney he was in the Mickey Mouse Club

(01:06:35):
along with Benney Spears. But we see how Benney Spears
turned out, We've seen how Aaron Carter turned out, like
a lot of these child stars, like this's just too
much for them to handle and they just end up
like imploding upon themselves. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Uh, there's another really interesting lead here too, because you
tell how Max Martin and Max Martin is Swedish. And
the reason why that's relevant is because before the nineteen nineties,
during the nineteen seventies and the nineteen eighties, it was
another like single or I think there was like a
team of these two Swedish songwriters that wrote pretty much

(01:07:12):
all of the top hits. It was oh what the
hell was his name? Benny Anderson and Bjorn something, and
they were the ones that did Waterloo Dancing, Queen Mama Mia,
take a Chance on Me Knowing Me a lot of
like the abba hits. They would actually write the song,
knew that it was going to be a hit, and

(01:07:33):
would just hire a random group to either sing it
or to just lip sync it. Because this they already
knew how it needed to sound in order for it
to be super successful. And I would still love to
know what the hell's in the water in Sweden in
which they're pumping out these songwriters. They are dominating the
charts worldwide for three or four decades straight.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Now, well, see what I think it is is that
it's like what you were talking about with the music, right.
So what they do is they listen to a lot
of low level maybe semi like C and D people
of any industry, right, and then they take whatever it

(01:08:20):
is that they are doing, they take it to their producers,
their people, and then they be like, this is the
this is the vibe that we're going for, this is
the art that we're going for, this is what we
kind of want you to replicate. And then they do
it and then it's huge and it's like what I've

(01:08:40):
talked about like several times with the things that I
make on my channel, like my short videos, like they're
really freaking good, and I have had some really successful ones.
I just had one on Facebook that hit over a
million views. It's the biggest port video that I've ever done,
and it was completely out of nowhere. Right, So that

(01:09:01):
is really nice, But almost everyone that I've made would
be huge like that. If it was somebody popular that
was posting that, there would be unbelievably big, right, it
would be huge. I mean freaking pulling in millions of
views with every single short video that they do that

(01:09:25):
they would put out if it was you know, my content.
And I feel like that that is there and that's
not me but putting myself on a high horse. I
just know that the guy I put a lot of
work into it and a lot of effort, you sound
effects and fucking music and like all kinds of shit
in it, and uh, it doesn't get the attention that

(01:09:47):
it should except that one they got over a million views.
But I think that that's what's going on, is that
they'll take they'll see something that they like from someone
that's really low level. They'll they'll take that to their
people and be like, hey, duplicate this. I mean it
kind of off topic, but this is kind of what
happened with Pokemon and the Pokemon TCG pocket. I play

(01:10:11):
Pokemon TCG pocket and they have like their own artists
that make the art work on the card, right, and
Pokemon seeing artwork that they wanted one of their artists
to duplicate. They went to them and they were like, okay,
make this look like make your art look like this art.

(01:10:34):
This is what we want. And then they screwed up,
and then they put the art that they sent to
their artists to do as the art that they did,
but it wasn't. It was some other amateur art, and
they almost got into a shit tonne of trouble doing
it because it was somebody else's art. On It's kind

(01:10:57):
of confusing and really off topic, but I think that
that's the way it's done. They'll look at some low
level people, some people on YouTube whatever, some low level
music people or whatever, and they hear something that they
really like, and instead of offering them a contract, instead
of here, here's a bit ton of money, I would
like to have your stuff, they just rip those people

(01:11:19):
off and then create their own thing that sounds very similar.
There's been many examples of this with bands over the years.
You know, other bands you claiming that they've like ripped
off their songs, like almost word for word too, and
like the titles of the songs and the titles of
the albums and like all that. So I believe that

(01:11:41):
it's very common, and I'm pretty sure that that's exactly
how it goes down.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
And this is pre AI, right, this is before you
had AI to contend with either the company finding some
low level person and now they could just feed it
to AI and say make something that sounds like this,
or for AI to be that low level person and
just say, churn out a million songs. Run this algorithm

(01:12:07):
that tells me the chance that this song is going
to be a hit song, and then give me the
ones at all rank over ninety five percent, and then
let's just try and focus on those ones. And as
a concrete example, one of the examples I remember from
that was the the rap group Dos Effects in the
nineties were really upset because Chris Cross came out, which

(01:12:29):
were these two like little kid rappers that kind of
took the exact same flow and cadence and style as
Dos Effects did, but they repurposed it and made this
like kid friendly music that could be you know, sold
to children, and it got really popular for a small
amount of time. And I think they tried to sue

(01:12:51):
and figure that out, but I mean, it gets it
gets dicey. It's really hard to copyright or trademark a
musical style the same way that would be to try
and copyright sort of an artistic style.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
Yeah, or like a particular word. Particular word is hard
copyright and secret space program, bro, No one else can
say a secret space.

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
Program copyright a color man. That's one of my favorite
ones is a company will just be like, we own
this version of yellow. This is our version of yellow,
and if you ever use it in a logo, we're
coming after you. And it's it has happened. There is
there is a legal precedent of a of a corporation
owning a specific shade of a certain color.

Speaker 1 (01:13:40):
That's wid let's get into a whole level of fuckery brown.
But that's how they screw you.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
Though.

Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
There is a big companies, the big corporations, I mean,
and we see it in real time. I mean, like
everything on like Shark Tank, Bro, you watch Shark Tank
back in the day, people with all their inventions, and
I'll buy that for two million dollars right now, let's
got a deal.

Speaker 2 (01:14:14):
I don't know how accurate this is, but Mark Cuban
came out and said that at net he's down, like
he's actually lost money on a totality of all the
different deals that he's made on Shark Tank.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Yeah. But see the thing is is that doesn't really matter.
That's just like on paper, on paper, he lost money,
but he really didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
Oh, because he's paid to even be there in the
first place. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
Yeah, they they throw that money around into different accounts
and then make it to wear the freaking irs owes
them money.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
Oh yeah, no. I mean my favorite example this one
too is the Demolition Man movie, which by all measures
did great, but the creative financial accounting made it just
the perfect black money pit where you could write off
any sort of profits you were making if you were
just associated with the Demolition Man movie.

Speaker 1 (01:15:13):
This is interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
Fluoride in Swedish water, I guess I believe that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
Probably not. I don't think a lot of other countries
have as much flora dated water as the United States does.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
Nope, can no, I just I had to look it
up confirm Sweden does not add fluoride to public drinking water.

Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
There we go, baby, we did it. We figured it out.

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
It takes both, right, Maybe it takes one region to
not have fluoride and write the music, and then it
takes the other region to consume fluoride in order to
like that music, right, like other non fluoride drinkers maybe
don't hear Dancing Queen the same way that fluoride drinkers do.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
Is I don't know, dude, I don't know. But the
I think that the DOJ blocked the fluoride thing because
RFK was trying to get it removed from all drinking
water in the United States, and the DOJ blocked it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
I mean. One of the another convenient notes is that
fluoride happens to be a byproduct of processing petroleum products
I believe, or some some sort of industrial runoff, and
not only do they no longer have to worry about
disposing of it in a safe way, they can make

(01:16:53):
money by just selling it to municipalities. So by by
banning fluoride presents too your issues. One is that that
revenue stream is now cut off from all these industries
that were used to making money off of that, and
they have to figure out how to safely dispose of
it since they can't just dump it into public water supplies.

(01:17:13):
So I could imagine there are a lot of say
like rusty wheels making you know, squeaking noises, that are
going to prevent anything from happening overnight.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
Trump's DOJ says the EPA will appeal landmark fluoride ruling
and decision to appel came from the Solicitor General the DOJ,
who reports Pam Bondy in the White House pop up.
In February, federal judge ruled against the EPA conducting the
water flooridaization at current levels pose an unreasonable risk at
children's health in ordering the EPA to address the issue.

(01:17:49):
So the DOJ is going to wrap this up for
probably years by appealing it, even if they don't win
the appeal.

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
I really do think the White House needs to release
the fluoride tapes.

Speaker 1 (01:18:06):
We need the fluoride list. Give us the fluoride list.
What do you think about that? Though?

Speaker 2 (01:18:20):
So I had a I mean, I've been a conspiracy
theorists since forever, since I was twelve or thirteen, probably
maybe even before that. I almost think I was conspiracy
theorists by default, just because I grew up with X
Files and Nowhere Man and you know, Men in Black.
It was kind of ingrained in our culture as we
were growing up. But I distinctly remember watching Doctor Strangelove.

(01:18:44):
And they were going off on how fluoride was being
put into the water supply by these commies. And I
was on board the first time that I heard that,
and I think I've always been on board with the
fluoride theories. And I had a job working at a
Kinko's in the late nineties early two thousands, so every
conspiracy theorist in town that had asign or that was

(01:19:06):
putting up flyers would come through there. And there was
this one group that was very anti fluoride that would
come in once a month and just get these boxes
and boxes of little fluoriyde pamphlets. And I mean I
had to sit there and copy thousands of these things.
So I read it over so many times, and yeah,
I mean I was convinced. I had a very biased

(01:19:28):
introduction to it. But I've always kind of understood fluoride
is one of these deep seated conspiratorial things that you're
either on board or not. And I've seen this might
be a weird analogy, but the one that's closed to
my mind to fluoride supporters and also id for voting support,

(01:19:51):
because they end up falling down the same justification. It's like, Okay,
maybe it's bad for us in the long run, or
maybe it's negligible, but it's for the poor. It's for
all the people that can't afford their own fluorides, so
they need to have the government issued fluoride and the
water supply, and that it's not meant to consume, it's

(01:20:12):
just meant that as you drink the public water, that
as the water brushes against your teeth on its weight
down your throat, that that's giving you enough to protect
your teeth from cavities. And that if we take that away,
then ultimately what's going to happen is all the poor
people and all their poor children are going to have
rotten teeth because now they're not drinking water out of

(01:20:34):
the water supply the same way that you would hear
a resistance to voter ID. Well, then poor people won't
be able to get their IDs, and that they have
no other way of recourse. And I just find both
of those justifications to be flaky at best, Like neither
of those are good enough to say. And here's why

(01:20:55):
we should kind of hold everyone else back because of
these particular reasons.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
Yeah, that argument is really ridiculous. Just brush your teeth,
bro it's pretty simple, like you wake up in the morning,
brush your teeth. When you're going to sleep, brush and
if it's.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
That much of a public health risk, the same way
that the Biden presidency was sending out free COVID testing kits,
if you just signed up on a website, how hard
would it be to just sign up on a website
and now the government will send you freaking fluoridated toothpaste
every month. It seems like that might actually be even

(01:21:36):
better than just straight up dumping it into the water supply,
other than we've already got maybe a scent like almost
a century's worth of infrastructure that's based on dumping it
into the water supply. So to undo that is actually
an incredible amount of work to reverse course on that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:56):
Yeah, And that's why it's been held up for probably years,
years and years. And I think that people have a
lot more problems than cavities if they can't brush their
teeth twice a day. When you say so, when you
say that, they got a lot more problems to worry
about if they can't brush their teeth.

Speaker 2 (01:22:18):
I mean halatosis among them. Yeah, I think they got
the silent killer.

Speaker 1 (01:22:28):
Way more problems than gingervitis going on with them. Yeah,
the uh, you know, the reversal on the floridation, the
no Epstein files.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
Where where you at on the fluoride calcifies the pineal
gland argument.

Speaker 1 (01:22:50):
I'm pretty sure that there's scientific proof that that it does.
The high amounts of floridation does something to your neural pathways.
Now I can't quote the actual study or the actual
scientific data, but I'm pretty sure that it exists. I mean,
fluoride has been around since at least World War Two,

(01:23:14):
that it was being put into the water supply. There
has to be studies by now, and that's what the
lawsuit was over, was that there's a sufficient amount of
studies showing that it screws with your brain and cognitive function. So,
I mean, I've had my water filtered for five years now,

(01:23:39):
five or six years, so I filter all of it.
It says that it takes out ninety nine percent of
the fluoride and then I remineralize it. Because that's another
really important thing that people need to take into consideration
as well. If you're filtering your water through any kind
of filtration system, whether that's a reverse osmosis, whether it's
a picture and I'm not talking about the ones that

(01:24:02):
you give from like Walmart or whatever whatever those things
are called, where it takes out like five percent of aluminum.
I mean like the really good ones that like take
out the aluminum, take out the floor ryde, take out
all that. Right, you got to remineralize your water. If
you don't remineralize it, then you're just essentially drinking nothing.

(01:24:25):
You're like drinking dead water.

Speaker 2 (01:24:28):
Well, that's why you got to supplement that with mountain
dew code red in order to get some of those
minerals that your water is not going to provide you.

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
I think Code Red Maui Burst and the new one,
the flood one. I think that'll.

Speaker 2 (01:24:44):
Mountain dew mud flood, tartarian tango or something. Bro.

Speaker 1 (01:24:52):
I'm pretty sure that me and my friend actually started
the whole mountain dew thing. We started it as a joke,
but like we didn't really talk about it. We me
and Ryan Gable did do a whole show on it
with the whole Maui thing, and a lot of people
got mad. But uh, like I don't know, like six

(01:25:12):
years ago, me and my friend were We're like, oh,
they're gonna hit you with that Mountain Dew co red
like just a random ship. And then all of a
sudden it becomes like this a real conspiracy that uh
Mountain Dew is And I think Donuts said that he

(01:25:33):
started it, but he didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
Donut did not start it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:38):
I started a Donut. I promised you. I'm just joking, Bron.
You can take the Mountain Dew stuff if you if
you feel like taking it, Bro, But we would we
would just joke around with each other. We'd be like, yeah,
we'd just make up random mountain Dew things, is like
a joke. And then we did it like all the time,
and I probably did it on a couple of shows,

(01:25:58):
and then like it became like a whole thing. And
then they now have like a Mountain Dew time clock
and like all this wow.

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
I mean, if I was working a Mountain Dew, I
would have the same PR company that handles the Denver
International Airport that they just lean into it where now
you have to buy this new twelve pack if you
want to survive the alien you know, uprising or put
like the new Mountain Dew project Blue Beam addition, like

(01:26:27):
only by consuming enough of this Blue Beam soda can
you make yourself safe because it'll probably have methylene blue
in it, and it'll turn your skin kind of blue,
so you're protected from the direct energy weapon. I feel
like they could lean into this more than they are already.

Speaker 1 (01:26:44):
Bro. They could Mountain Dew alien.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
Invasion with methylene blue added.

Speaker 1 (01:26:52):
Ah perfect, and then in two years we get Project
Blue Beam alien invasion and then everyone can make YouTube
videos about it. They told us, they told us, they
told us it was coming.

Speaker 2 (01:27:08):
All I hear is a very smart gorilla marketing campaign.
If you get the rest of the world talking about
how Mountain Dew is predicting tragedies, now you can turn
any tragedy into a free marketing campaign. That seems genius
to me.

Speaker 1 (01:27:24):
It does. I wonder who donut was responsible? Donut did it?
I'll can see it. Do you Donut Doughnut created it? Yeah?
I mean that seems like the easiest way to for
like word of mouth stuff, right, it's free marketing.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
Well, we'll know for sure if Mountain Dew comes out
with like a Donut Shop special edition flavor, it's all.

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
Over Mountain Dew Donut blast.

Speaker 2 (01:27:55):
Don't write it off. Man. That seems like something that
could happen in this timeline.

Speaker 1 (01:28:02):
I would love that, then, dont get sponsored by a
mountain dew.

Speaker 2 (01:28:10):
I think we honestly, we all should, man, I really
do believe that conspiracy theories and like this weird occult
schizo synchronicity that we're into is sort of the new
version of mythology where most people today seem like they're
too rational to believe in, you know, a new pantheon,

(01:28:30):
or maybe we just don't have enough capacity or time,
like I'm too busy to worry about developing an entirely
new pantheon and a new religion. And in my mind,
conspiracy theories are the closest thing that we have to mythology,
or it's where you've got these stories that seem so supernatural,
yet people spread them around as if they were a fact,

(01:28:53):
and that can base their entire lives and paranoia and
hopes and dreams based on straight and spiracy theories, the
same way that maybe a thousand or two thousand years
ago people did with their various pantheons of gods. We've
convinced ourselves that we're too smart for that. We only
believe in reality, but our versions of reality are often

(01:29:15):
so hyperbolized that they're basically at the same level as
you know, like a Greek pantheon.

Speaker 1 (01:29:23):
I feel like this is the way that religions were created.
Did what we're doing right now is how the religious
books and the religious texts were created. I mean, there's
so much proof that the Roman Empire just created the
entire new Tussa men bro just created Jesus based them
off of just like what we were talking about with

(01:29:45):
the music industry, right, it just took something that was
already pre existing, put their own spin on it, and
then wrote an entire book and then converted everyone into
this new religion.

Speaker 2 (01:29:56):
Yeah. Created might even be a pretty strong word for that.
Like with the Roman An Empire did with culture, It's
almost the equivalent of uploading a pdf to chat GPT
and saying, give me a summary and give me the
cliff notes of this. That's that's my mind. The Roman
Empire is like the cliff notes of much wider histories, and.

Speaker 1 (01:30:16):
The Bible is the greatest hits album of much order
must prove much earlier religions.

Speaker 2 (01:30:23):
Right, Yeah. The Bibles essentially is like now that's what
I call religion volume one, right.

Speaker 1 (01:30:31):
Yeah, Oh man, Aaron IID this has been a fun
chob brother. Appreciate you coming on. Can you let people
know where to find you? Where they can find your Uh?
The Illuminati. Illuminati comic came out, didn't it?

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):
It came out. There's so many easy ways to find
all this cool stuff. For example, you can go to
Illuminati coomic dot com. That'll bring you right to the
page on my website where you can grab yourself a copy.
We started talking about The Titanic. I'm working on a
comic of that. You can go to Titaniccomic dot com
and sign up for it. We talked about Kubrick Guess what.

(01:31:09):
You can go to Kubrickcomic dot com and sign up
to the newsletter in which I'll be announcing a pretty
ambitious little chick track style comic book that's all about
Stanley Kubrick, Comatria, Kabbala and the Golden Bough by Fraser
all in one. It's a very ambitious story. If you

(01:31:30):
like that, and I've got so much more, you can
also just go to Paranoid American dot com or search
for Paranoid American on Amazon, YouTube, Spotify, TikTok, Twitter, All
the places.

Speaker 1 (01:31:44):
Did you mention me and your new dubric stuff Brown.

Speaker 2 (01:31:47):
You're in there, man, because well, the Kubrick Comic's not
out yet, but it has a exhaustive list of all
of the Kubrick related documentaries, so you'll definitely get to
mention that. We'll probably even throw a little ad in
the back just to get more people watching your stuff,
and obviously all of Jay's first two documentaries as well.

Speaker 1 (01:32:10):
Thank you, bro, you're a real one, dude. Fist bump
through the freaking thing, that's what's up. I got your
YouTube link in the description, but I'll change it to
the website if you would like me to change it
to your website. That'll probably be better for people to
click on so they can get all of your work.
And if you subscribe to his channel, I think has

(01:32:30):
our episode came out.

Speaker 2 (01:32:31):
Yet, Well, if you go to my Patreon, you'll get
early access by about three or four weeks in the future.
Otherwise me and your episode will be on the Paranoid
American podcast next month, I believe.

Speaker 1 (01:32:48):
Well, if you're over there and sign up, you can
hear the pre version of mine and Paranoid's show that
we did a couple of weeks back. And thank you
guys for being here. Really appreciate it. Please be sure
to hit the thumbs up button. I'll help the channel
on the algorithm. Sure subscribe at the bell icon as
well for notifications. And if I don't see you on Monday,

(01:33:09):
you know where I'll be. I'll be moving and working
on the new documentary and we'll see you guys sometime
in the future. Thanks for being here, guys, really appreciate it.
Paranoia stayed with me brother