June 18, 2026 • 28 mins
Don and Tom take on one of investors’ biggest blind spots: focusing on tiny costs while ignoring the factors that have a far greater impact on long-term wealth. Using a recent Jason Zweig article as a springboard, they explain how taxes can reduce stock market returns far more than the difference between low-cost fund expense ratios. The discussion covers tax-efficient investing, asset location, ETFs versus mutual funds, dividend taxation, capital gains, and why investors should pay more attention to portfolio design than chasing the lowest possible expense ratio. They also dissect a highly tax-inefficient YieldMax fund tied to MicroStrategy and Bitcoin, illustrating how taxes and poor fund structure can devastate returns. Listener questions cover Morningstar’s acquisition of CRSP indexes and whether it threatens Vanguard investors, plus whether a retiree working part-time can contribute earned income to a Roth IRA.
0:05 Big-picture investing versus obsessing over tiny details
0:39 Why fund expense ratios matter less than most investors think
2:06 Jason Zweig’s research on taxes reducing long-term market returns
3:20 How taxes often outweigh fund expense differences
4:06 Qualified dividends versus ordinary income taxation
5:03 Why investors should pay attention to after-tax returns
5:40 YieldMax funds and the hidden cost of tax inefficiency
7:19 The dangers of exotic income-focused ETFs
7:48 Why ETFs can be more tax-efficient than mutual funds
9:15 Tax knowledge as a critical investing skill
10:30 Asset location: where stocks and bonds belong
11:20 The YieldMax MicroStrategy fund and Bitcoin losses
11:58 The truly important parts of financial planning
13:15 Listener question from Longmont, Colorado
14:17 Morningstar, CRSP indexes, and Vanguard concerns
16:00 Why market-cap indexes are unlikely to be manipulated
17:16 Morningstar ratings and conflicts of interest discussion
17:58 Thoughts on the military-industrial complex
19:23 UFL football, soccer, and sports tangents
20:47 Listener question about Roth IRA contributions from part-time work
21:30 Filing thresholds and earned income requirements for Roth IRAs
23:21 Listener questions, voice submissions, and website tools
24:08 AI voices and synthetic Don McDonald
25:59 Romper Room memories and closing banter
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_02 (00:05):
You're gonna do a really great financial future.
Tom and Don are talking realmoney.
SPEAKER_00 (00:12):
Big picture.
Big picture.
I need you to listen carefully.
Big picture.
Focus on the big picture.
We have minds that go off in aton of different directions that
are always moving faster thanthe world around us.
We're overthinking things, weget caught up in the minutiae.
(00:35):
Let me give you an example.
Vanguard funds, less than onetenth of one percent.
Cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap,cheap.
Avantis funds, less thanthree-tenths of one percent.
Dimensional funds, less thanthree-tenths of one percent.
You guys freak out at thedifference.
Well, we want to talk aboutthings that are much more
(00:57):
impactful to your portfolio thatyou don't think about as much on
this edition of the Talking RealMoney Podcast.
Hello, everyone.
Don McDonald here in Florida,Tom over there in the Seattle
Metro area, the greater PugetSound area, to try to make this
whole process of managing moneya lot more understandable.
(01:17):
And uh this was a great articlefrom our friend Jason Zwag a few
weeks back, uh talking about thebig picture, really, the things
we focus on.
We get all freaked out aboutexpense ratios when today,
unless you're buying some stupidETF or active fund, you're
paying very little in fees andexpenses, and there are bigger
(01:41):
fish to fry.
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
Yeah, your partner uh in Washington called the
federal government.
This is a shocking number,frankly.
Um, I think this is a hundredyears of data, right?
1926 through the end of 2025.
Isn't that a hundred years ofthe year?
SPEAKER_00 (01:55):
That is a hundred years of data, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (01:57):
According to Jason, the U.S., the total U.S.
stock market returned anannualized average of 10 and a
half percent.
That's a lot of money to make.
I mean, darn that compound.
But you knew there was a buttcoming after tax.
According to a new study, thatreturn drops to 7%.
(02:19):
Wow.
Um, but since the 1980s, he saysfederal tax rates have fallen.
Yes, that's true.
But taxes still hacked awaybetween one and a half and
almost two percent of themarket's 10% annual performance,
more than one-sixth of the totalreturn.
SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
Now hold on to a minute.
I want to hold at this pointright here, because remember, we
get a lot of calls from peoplegoing, well, why do I want those
Avantis or dimensional fundswhen they cost me three times as
much as four times as much asVanguard?
We're talking about pennies onthe dollar when we're talking
about expense ratios anymore.
Here we're talking about dimeson the dollar.
(02:55):
There's a big, huge difference,and we're ignoring some of these
tax benefits.
And Avantis or a dimensional,they also tend to manage a
little bit to reduce taxesbecause they keep things in
their portfolio longer than alot of other portfolios.
And you could end up with asmaller tax liability just using
(03:16):
ETFs.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
And the turnover is lower because they're not tied
to an index.
Just think, for example, comingup soon, any index that you're
in, they're going to be adding alarge space outfit of some kind
called SpaceX.
Um, that means somebody goesout, that means taxes are paid,
et cetera.
But most of this comes fromtaxes on dividends and periodic
(03:42):
capital gains within that indexfund as membership has changed.
Now, I always forget the rate ondividends is what?
It's not regular income tax.
SPEAKER_00 (03:51):
It it depends on whether they're qualified
dividends.
Uh, but the rate on dividends isgenerally the same as your
income rate.
SPEAKER_01 (04:02):
Okay.
Your regular income tax rate.
By the way, this does notaccount for state or local taxes
when you have clients who livein New York and it gets it,
can't believe that.
But um capital gains are taxed.
SPEAKER_00 (04:18):
Like capital gains.
Okay.
Uh and dividends from uh not alldividends are qualified.
If you if you're getting adividend from a REIT, uh a
limited partnership, uh moneymarket funds, those kinds of
things, those are not qualified.
If they're coming from a stock,they're qualified, so they get
that lower treatment.
(04:39):
But remember, with capital gainsalso might come if you're a
high-income investor, the thenet investment income tax of 3.8
tacked on.
SPEAKER_01 (04:51):
In addition to the long-term rate of 15 and the
short-term rate of twenty.
So you could be paying us up mup up to twenty-five percent,
pretty close to it, for thoseshort-term capital gains.
SPEAKER_00 (05:03):
So and and qualified dividends are taxed at zero,
fifteen, and then when yourincome is over six hundred
thousand jointly, then those aretaxed at twenty.
SPEAKER_01 (05:14):
Yeah.
Then you really start paying alot.
So and and remember, what we'retalking about here is if you
owned a fund where they'repicking stocks or you're picking
your own stocks, then you couldbe paying a lot more in taxes.
But this is for the cheaperversion.
I you know, here's the from1996, he says through the end of
(05:34):
last year, U.S.
stock market return, and I hateto throw too many numbers here,
9.9% pre-tax, but less than 8.3%after tax.
And again, big difference.
Big, big, big difference.
This is something actually topay attention to.
Well, and he makes a good point,by the way, because generally
people select funds what?
Based on return.
Then they look at expenses andthey really don't think about
(05:56):
taxes.
That's how people end up owningthings like the and please don't
buy this, the yield max MSTRoption income strategy, which
sounds amazing because We'vetalked about these funds before.
SPEAKER_00 (06:10):
These are covered call writing kind of funds.
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
February 2024 through the end of 2025, so just
shy of two years, they reportedan annualized average return of
forty-one percent uh waitpre-tax.
Then they buried on page 12 ofthe prospectus, which I'm sure
you all read very carefully, theannualized return for the same
period after taxes, 16.3%.
(06:36):
Uncle Sammy reports earn morethan the fund's investors, which
is really shocking.
SPEAKER_00 (06:42):
That's a huge difference.
And and but it's because it's avery tax inefficient fund.
That that that's the reality, isthat you know, funds like this,
and that's another reason wedon't like them.
Not only are they expensive, andI'm just curious how expensive
this is, in addition to itsincredibly high tax rate, which
(07:02):
is above 50 percent.
SPEAKER_01 (07:04):
Yes, it is.
That's worth paying attention.
But they don't care about that.
They're just trying to make thewrong money.
There you go.
So you're paying the one tothem, then you're paying Uncle
Sam all that.
I mean, it just this is this isuh crazy.
So um, but uh to go back to yoursituation, we know you don't use
funds like this, right?
Well, some of you do, becausethey you call me and you say I'm
(07:27):
in this XYZ fund, and whatshould I do?
And you know my advice is gonnabe get rid of it.
Um but back to where and and bythe way, this is all of these
short-term trading funds, exoticfunds that have high expense
ratios and are horribly taxinefficient, they don't care
about tax, they're not payingattention to taxes at all.
(07:47):
Um and and but let's just youyou made a really good point at
the beginning, Don, and that isbig picture.
Let's talk about the big picturerather than diving into the
smaller things.
First of all, you mentionedexchange traded funds.
In your taxable account, if youcan use ETFs, it makes a ton of
sense.
Because of the capital gains,the way that they're built, the
(08:10):
way they're operated, yourcapital gains sure are going to
be pretty small in any ETFversus a mutual fund where there
could be quite large.
Um, and this is a really justbig picture item.
So if you can move to ETFs inthose taxable accounts, that's a
pretty smart move because thatthat's gonna save you right
(08:30):
there substantially in capitalgains taxes.
SPEAKER_00 (08:34):
Exactly.
And these can be, I mean,really, the the these can make a
big difference.
So you want to tax manage yourportfolio.
Again, you don't want to getobsessed with taxes, but I think
we've gotten too obsessed withfees sometimes, and we have too,
uh, to some extent, ignoring thereal danger and damage done by
(08:56):
taxable income and taxablereturns if your accounts are not
in the right, or if your uhassets are not in the right
accounts.
SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
Yeah, which brings me to number two, knowing the
laws around taxation, the howmuch you're paying on dividends,
how much you're paying oncapital gains, and how much
you're paying for regularincome.
Um you need to know those thingsbecause that's going to help you
build the right portfolio.
It's going to help you withdrawmoney correctly, all of those
things.
The tax sort of treatment ofanything is an incredibly
(09:28):
important part of portfoliodesign and management that
really doesn't get the attentionit deserves.
Because I think people justdon't like to talk about taxes
until they're paying more thanthey think they should.
So that's another one for me.
Um, and then there's in additionto the ETFs and a taxable
account, there's some other, yousaid it, big picture things, and
yes, this seems very obvious,but to most people they don't
(09:49):
think about it much.
And that is, for example,stocks, well, stocks really
should be more in that taxableaccount, right?
If you got to own fixed income,that should be really in your
IRA and 401k because the theinterest that gets paid there
just gets reinvested and you'renot paying tax on it all the
time the way you might be in ataxable account.
So some pretty basic things.
(10:11):
And then really, Jason, whathe's trying to tell you is don't
buy this junk.
Don't buy this stuff that's uhthat may feel great until you
get to the bottom line, you findout that the government's taking
out more than you made in theactual fund.
It's shocking.
SPEAKER_00 (10:26):
I found out why the Yield Max MSTR option strategy
ETF is such a bad one tax-wise.
I I I actually figured out whatthey do.
What do they do?
I'm not familiar with this ETF.
But you're gonna you're gonna beshocked.
SPEAKER_01 (10:45):
Stand by May is Junior, yes.
SPEAKER_00 (10:48):
Yeah, um I I didn't realize I didn't MSTR is not an
abbreviation for I didn't knowwhat that was.
It's uh uh strategy.
MicroStrategy.
The stock.
SPEAKER_01 (11:00):
Oh, our good friends at MicroStrategy, of course,
trading.
SPEAKER_00 (11:03):
The Michael Saylor stock.
So uh in addition to that numberthat Jason Zweig quoted on the
41 percent getting down to what16?
Yes, sixteen.
Well now the total returnbecause of the downturn in
Bitcoin.
Oh no.
Yeah Not only did you get taxdistributed along the way, but
(11:26):
your portfolio uh for the lastyear is down forty plus percent.
SPEAKER_01 (11:32):
Wow.
That's taking a lot of things.
SPEAKER_00 (11:33):
So you got a forty plus percent loss and you had
all those taxable gains.
And that's just insult heapedupon injury.
SPEAKER_01 (11:44):
Yeah.
And this is what when you buy,you know, silly ideas, when you
buy things like this that makeit look like you're gonna make
easy money, you can pay a realprice.
And that clearly that's what'shappened here, right?
SPEAKER_00 (11:56):
Yep.
And here's the thing the moralof our story is focus, focus,
focus on the big stuff.
And there are big things.
The plan, big thing.
Your portfolio allocation, bigthing.
Rebalancing, big thing.
Portfolio location, big thing.
Income planning, big thing.
(12:18):
Tax planning, big thing.
Ignore the little things.
You'll be a lot happier becauseour brains do not have time for
all of those things.
Despite the fact that they arebig brains.
SPEAKER_01 (12:30):
No, they are big brains.
SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
They're not that big.
SPEAKER_01 (12:32):
I tell you what we do have time for.
Your questions.
And you've been so prolific herethe last few days, so thank you
for that.
Because, you know, I likekilling a tree as much as well.
SPEAKER_00 (12:42):
And we still have to we still have to stock up on a
few conversations between youand our lovely listeners, but
we're working on that becauseyou've sent in more questions.
So we'll have some of thosecoming up very soon.
But for now, these questionscame in at talkingreal money.com
on the ask a question buttonthat's there, and you typed them
in Tom Killed a Tree just foryou.
How about that?
This is your memorial treekilling.
SPEAKER_01 (13:03):
Well, you know, it's 'tis the season, and uh
some of those trees are gettingpretty big.
So it's time they take them downa notch or maybe two notch.
SPEAKER_00 (13:10):
They always get big in the Pacific Northwest.
SPEAKER_01 (13:12):
God, they're massive.
Uh from Longmont, Colorado.
Do you know Longmont?
SPEAKER_00 (13:18):
Yeah, it's up uh northern Colorado.
Okay.
Uh Dave writes us and north ofDenver.
SPEAKER_01 (13:24):
Yeah.
First thing he says, yes, Don,Colorado misses you.
SPEAKER_00 (13:28):
Oh, that was kind of I miss you guys too.
SPEAKER_01 (13:31):
Yeah.
The snow, the cold, the changeof weather.
I was getting amazed whenDenver's like winter, though.
70 what 70 degrees one day andthen the next day it's like 20
below.
I was like, come on, really?
Anyway.
SPEAKER_00 (13:41):
Yeah, but the Broncos are going to be getting
a domed stadium soon, so itwon't matter.
SPEAKER_01 (13:45):
Wait, they still have a team there?
Come on.
SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
Um there was one uh power ranking that came out
recently that had them ratednumber one.
I think it was CBS, had themrated number one in the NFL.
SPEAKER_01 (13:58):
I thought the number one team in the NFL was a
certain local bunch of theTrevor Burrus.
SPEAKER_00 (14:02):
They had the Broncos rated ahead of the Seahawks.
SPEAKER_01 (14:04):
Rated, but not actually when it comes to
playing the game.
SPEAKER_00 (14:07):
We don't know because we there's a new season
in the fall.
SPEAKER_01 (14:10):
There's always a new season.
Um okay, Dave, to your question.
Springs Eternal.
Dave writes, hi Tom.
I had a question that reallydoesn't have much to do with
daily investing.
Just wondering about maintainingindependence with indexes
tracked and the companies thatfollow them.
Morningstar, as you know,acquired the CRSP brand indices
(14:33):
and will now be rebranded asMorningstar.
Vanguard has also recentlystarted a closer relationship to
Morningstar as all or most ofattract indexes were CRSP.
I did look into that.
Morningstar added it to, hasbeen added to 13 of the index
funds of around$3.2 billion.
So not a huge amount, but butit's it is significant.
(14:54):
And then he kind of goes intosome other uh non-sequitur?
I think I think you could say hesays, as President Eisenhower
once warned, beware of themilitary-industrial complex.
Now, okay, but he says, shouldthis be applied to large
industrial side companiesglomming into each other as
interlocking business interests?
(15:15):
Beware of the driftingvanguards, beware of the
drifting vanguard moral compass.
Will this affect their funds?
Will will ultimately performover time if Morningstar starts
tinkering with the index makeup,or all is this just more noise,
noise, moise, moise, moise,noise, noise, noise, noise.
SPEAKER_00 (15:33):
Noise, noise, overthinking, thinking,
thinking, thinking,overthinking, overthinking in
Colorado.
SPEAKER_01 (15:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:39):
Overthinking a lot.
Okay, one, uh an index prettymuch is an index, unless it's
particularly these kind ofindexes that are based on market
capitalization.
They are purely market capindexes.
They're not they're not like theS P 500, where there's a bit of
a decision process or the Dowwhere it's 100% people picking
them.
(15:59):
Uh these are the SP, as wepointed out.
That's why I say the SP can be alittle manipulated.
These indexes, I mean, couldthey?
I guess if they totally changethe nature of the indexes, but
anybody who was going to usethem in academic research, and
these really are popular withacademics, Fama and French use
the CRISPR resources.
(16:20):
These are these are normalbecause they are consistent.
And Morningstar is unlikely tomess with something that
consistent.
Plus, there's just not muchmoney in licensing fees for an
index like that.
It's not a big money maker.
Uh and here's the other thing.
The only if Morningstar andVanguard, for example, let's
(16:40):
just say they merged, which theyhaven't.
We they haven't.
They're just having sort of anadvertising kind of sponsorship
relationship because Morningstarhas to make money.
Yep.
Okay?
They gotta make money.
Everybody has to make money.
It's called capitalism.
Even in other systems, funny,people still need to make money
and they want to do it.
(17:01):
Uh the only thing Morningstarreally could do that would be
even slightly suspicious wouldbe to give Vanguard a higher
star rating.
SPEAKER_01 (17:12):
I was waiting for that.
Yes, of course.
But but let's assume they do.
SPEAKER_00 (17:16):
We don't believe in paying any attention to their
star ratings.
And neither should you, by theway.
Uh-uh.
So I think this is theproverbial tempest in a teapot.
Again, back to our big brains.
They like to think up things.
And this this goes to our ourcrazy need for some of us, many
(17:37):
of us, to default to conspiracytheories and suspicion and
skepticism, all of and meincluded.
I I'm a skeptic.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
You're not a conspiracy guy,though.
No, I'm not a conspiracyindustrial.
I'm an Occam's razor guy.
SPEAKER_01 (17:52):
Where are you on the military industrial complex just
so we clean up everything?
That's a real thing.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (17:59):
It exists, and it's it it often, I believe, looks to
profit from war.
Sure.
It's a military industrialcomplex.
Right.
They only do well when you'reblowing their stuff up.
SPEAKER_01 (18:11):
And if you don't believe me, go back and look at
uh where we are with the Navy,for example, 200 years ago.
Quite a different situationthere in terms of What Navy?
SPEAKER_00 (18:20):
It's like three ships.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (18:22):
The size, the money spent, and everything.
And then look at it today.
I'm watching a series on theNavy, which I'm really enjoying.
Ah, that's Tom, history?
I know.
Surprise.
Hard to believe.
Really surprising.
By the way, if you're into suchthings right now, it's a good
time to watch all the football,not just the current games being
played in the World Cup, but allthe sp they're rolling back out
(18:43):
all of the documentaries aboutuh football over the last ten
years.
SPEAKER_00 (18:49):
The only thing I can think of that's more boring than
watching a football match akasoccer, is watching a
documentary about footballmatches.
You thought it was bad, now thisis really bad.
I can't even imagine.
And this is why this is Andhere's an example of why these
men love to play a sport whereyou never score.
SPEAKER_01 (19:10):
By the way, somebody wrote me one of the questions
said, keep the war stuff coming,Tom.
I like it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:15):
So You know what I discovered the other day?
I went with some friends to ahappy hour at a uh place STK.
There's one in Bellevue.
Uh and uh we were at the bar andthey had a TV on.
It was a Saturday, and there's afootball game.
SPEAKER_01 (19:30):
Yeah.
Football.
Like football.
Like American football.
SPEAKER_00 (19:33):
Like American football.
And I look up and it it's it'ssomebody uh from Birmingham and
Houston, and I'm going,Birmingham, huh?
Didn't know that.
And then I realized it was theUFL, which I didn't even Yeah,
they're back.
I I did not even realize Orlandohas a team.
There you go.
(19:54):
I live here, I didn't know wehad a team.
I see Orlando's in the playoffs,and I went, Oh, I maybe I should
go see the playoff game.
Then I looked, and this is whereit ties back into what you're
talking about, because they'renot real popular, kind of like
soccer, they play in the Orlandosoccer, the Orlando City soccer
field.
SPEAKER_01 (20:13):
Which is a nice facility.
SPEAKER_00 (20:14):
But it's small.
It's like, you know, it's likean 18,000 seat stadium.
So they play there.
Well, they're in the playoffsfor the UFL.
Nobody planned for this, and theOrlando City team is playing at
those dates.
That's gonna be tricky becauseOrlando play their UFL game
(20:35):
there.
They're going to Ohio.
Well, that's very close, as youknow, to Orlando.
SPEAKER_01 (20:40):
Ohio, Orlando.
SPEAKER_00 (20:41):
It's actually a summer game.
They probably stand a betterchance in Ohio.
SPEAKER_01 (20:45):
That's a good point.
SPEAKER_00 (20:47):
Can't imagine playing.
Oh man.
It's probably gonna be 95-95 aswe call it.
95 degrees, 95% relativehumidity.
SPEAKER_01 (20:55):
All right.
Anyway, you got anotherquestion?
Military yes, militaryindustrial crowd.
Another one from um Augusta,Kansas.
Chris says, I'm retired, butworking four to twelve hours a
week at$17 an hour as a favor.
It's a favor to me, too, saysChris, but because it's getting
me out of the house.
They're paying Kansas taxes, butopt out of federal.
(21:17):
They gave me the impression I'mnot making enough for federal
taxes.
Can I still put these smallchecks into my Roth IRA?
Yes.
Yeah.
By the way, looked it up.
Do you know how much you have tomake to have to file a tax
return?
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
It's more than the the the five to ten thousand
he's making.
SPEAKER_01 (21:35):
Yeah.
Married, thirty one thousandfive hundred.
Single, if you're over sixtyfive, seventeen thousand seven
hundred fifty.
If you're under sixty five, youyoung crazy kids, fifteen
thousand seven hundred andfifty.
SPEAKER_00 (21:47):
So even if no it doesn't matter.
No matter what age, at that atseventeen dollars for a part
time job, you don't pay anytaxes.
SPEAKER_01 (21:58):
So they're doing it right, but that you can't
SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
That is income and you can definitely Now I I
hopefully they're taking outSocial Security and Medicare,
because those are stillrequired.
Yes, they are.
At any income level.
That's right.
Even if you're collecting SocialSecurity.
That's right.
Guess what?
You're doing both.
How about you?
I'm going, I'm pay I'm taking itin and I'm paying it out.
(22:22):
Very confusing.
SPEAKER_01 (22:24):
But you're getting that check every month.
Is it monthly?
How often do you get your money?
SPEAKER_00 (22:28):
What are you?
I'm putting it out there.
I'm kidding.
SPEAKER_01 (22:33):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:34):
I was hoping for you.
Every month on the thirdWednesday.
unknown (22:37):
All right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:37):
So I'll come by.
By the way, it's not a check.
It's just magic money thatappears at your bank.
Love those magic things.
You got another question thatcame in and talked about real
money?
SPEAKER_01 (22:49):
That's all.
Anything else?
Two taste treats and one.
Yeah, keep them coming.
Questions for Don, you can voicethem.
Questions for me, you can typethem.
SPEAKER_00 (22:57):
And on the new website, it's so much easier.
You just go to the lowerright-hand corner and there's a
microphone button.
Push it.
Record your question.
Push it.
Then you can listen back and go,yeah, okay, I sounded stupid.
I'll do it again.
But if you think the qualityisn't good, don't worry about
that.
If you listen, you go, it wasterrible quality.
Don't worry, Don has a magic,magic machine that uh turns it
(23:22):
into really high quality audio.
SPEAKER_01 (23:25):
Where were you in the early part of my broadcast
career?
I could have really used that.
SPEAKER_00 (23:28):
I'm telling you No, not I I did find Although I had
some actualities when I was anews guy that could have stood
for a little of that.
You know, I was an early uhdigital edge.
SPEAKER_01 (23:38):
Actuality is let's that that's a little bit of uh
jargon.
SPEAKER_00 (23:41):
You mean an actuality is a uh uh uh an
insert in the news.
SPEAKER_01 (23:47):
It's like a voice from someone else.
SPEAKER_00 (23:49):
Someone else, where you you got an interview with
somebody and you add their voicein.
That's an actuality.
It means it actually happened,as opposed to the newscaster who
is a figment of yourimagination.
I don't know that, but okay.
I'll go with it.
We're we're imaginary.
We could be with AI, we could beimaginary.
We could be totally fake.
That's probably coming, so don'tdon't don't imagine.
(24:11):
Not many would know thedifference.
As a matter of fact, wait,before we go, let me just give
you Don McDonald announcingwhere you can go to uh meet with
an advisor via my AI voice.
Okay, so here's the deal.
If you would like one of our100% fiduciary advisors to help
(24:32):
you understand your portfoliobetter or see if you're on track
for a comfortable retirement,you can meet with one of them
for free for nothing just bygoing to talkingrealmoney.com
and clicking on the button thatsays meet an advisor.
You'll get help, but here's whatyou won't get a bill, any kind
of obligation, or high pressuresales pitch.
(24:52):
None of those things.
What you are getting right nowis a very fake me, but derived
from the real me, so it kind ofsounds like me, but it kind of
misses some of the I don't know,inflection stuff, I'm guessing.
We'll find out as soon as it'sdone.
So anyway, go totalkingrealmoney.com, click on
that button that says Meet anAdvisor.
(25:14):
That's meet an advisor,talkingrealmoney.com, and I'm
now done.
Or at least my robot's done.
Okay, that wasn't as good asactual me.
SPEAKER_01 (25:24):
I know the inflexion.
I don't think it has quite thesame ring to it, but okay.
SPEAKER_00 (25:27):
No, no, no, no.
It's missing the the it's youcan tell it's definitely missing
the emotional The intonation isjust not there for me.
Look at you with the big word.
Spell it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:40):
I think that's a pretty easy one.
SPEAKER_00 (25:42):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (25:42):
Intoning.
Doesn't mean you're smart, asone teacher told me once.
SPEAKER_00 (25:49):
You could be a bumblebee.
SPEAKER_01 (25:50):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (25:51):
Or ant bee.
Or a doobie.
Oh, that you know what that'sfrom?
Do a be a doobie, not a don'tbe.
What's that from?
I do.
You don't know the show that'sfrom?
No.
The show called Romper Room.
SPEAKER_01 (26:07):
Yeah, I remember Romper Room the show, of course.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:09):
It was you doob.
SPEAKER_01 (26:10):
So they were handing out doobies to all these kids?
Doobies?
I don't remember that part.
I tuned in the wrong day orsomething.
So too bad.
SPEAKER_00 (26:19):
It was it was uh yeah, early enablers.
All right.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you for being here fortalking real money.
I'm Don.
This is me.
And that guy over there, that'sTom.
And uh five days a week or so,we're talking real money.
SPEAKER_02 (26:35):
The opinions and views expressed on this podcast
were current on the daterecorded.
Opinions, estimates, forecasts,and statements of financial
market trends that are based oncurrent market conditions
constitute our judgment and oursubjects change without notice,
including any forward-lookingestimates or statements which
are based on certainexpectations and assumptions.
SPEAKER_03 (26:49):
Although information and opinions given have been
obtained from or based onsources believed to be reliable,
no warranty or representation ismade as to their correctness,
completeness, or accuracy.
SPEAKER_02 (26:58):
Information presented on the podcast is not
personalized investment advicefrom Oppello Wealth.
The views and strategiesdescribed may not be suitable
for everyone.
This podcast does not identifyall the risks, direct or
indirect, or otherconsiderations which might be
material to you when enteringany financial transaction.
Past performance does notguarantee feature results, and
profitable results cannot beguaranteed.
We hope you realize that theinformation provided on Talking
Real Money is for informational,educational, and hopefully
(27:20):
enjoyable purposes only.
The podcast is not trying to getyou to buy or sell any financial
products or securities.
Instead, the program is providedas a public service by Appello
Wealth, a fee-only registeredinvestment advisor.
SPEAKER_03 (27:31):
See Appello Vote, ADB, to any other website for
information regardingAppellate's fees and services.
SPEAKER_02 (27:36):
Apellet Capital, LLC, DBA Apello Wealth, is an
investment advisory firmregistered with the Securities
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The firm only transacts businessin the states where it is
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Registration with the SEC or anyState Securities Authority does
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Apello does not provide tax orlegal advice, and nothing either
stated or implied here should beinferred as providing such
(27:57):
advice.
Thanks for listening, and pleasevisit talkingrealmoney.com for
more information and importantdisclosure related to
performance of any specificindex or fund quoted in this
podcast.
You're gonna do a really great financial future.
Tom and Don are talking realmoney.
SPEAKER_00 (00:12):
Big picture.
Big picture.
I need you to listen carefully.
Big picture.
Focus on the big picture.
We have minds that go off in aton of different directions that
are always moving faster thanthe world around us.
We're overthinking things, weget caught up in the minutiae.
(00:35):
Let me give you an example.
Vanguard funds, less than onetenth of one percent.
Cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap,cheap.
Avantis funds, less thanthree-tenths of one percent.
Dimensional funds, less thanthree-tenths of one percent.
You guys freak out at thedifference.
Well, we want to talk aboutthings that are much more
(00:57):
impactful to your portfolio thatyou don't think about as much on
this edition of the Talking RealMoney Podcast.
Hello, everyone.
Don McDonald here in Florida,Tom over there in the Seattle
Metro area, the greater PugetSound area, to try to make this
whole process of managing moneya lot more understandable.
(01:17):
And uh this was a great articlefrom our friend Jason Zwag a few
weeks back, uh talking about thebig picture, really, the things
we focus on.
We get all freaked out aboutexpense ratios when today,
unless you're buying some stupidETF or active fund, you're
paying very little in fees andexpenses, and there are bigger
(01:41):
fish to fry.
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
Yeah, your partner uh in Washington called the
federal government.
This is a shocking number,frankly.
Um, I think this is a hundredyears of data, right?
1926 through the end of 2025.
Isn't that a hundred years ofthe year?
SPEAKER_00 (01:55):
That is a hundred years of data, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (01:57):
According to Jason, the U.S., the total U.S.
stock market returned anannualized average of 10 and a
half percent.
That's a lot of money to make.
I mean, darn that compound.
But you knew there was a buttcoming after tax.
According to a new study, thatreturn drops to 7%.
(02:19):
Wow.
Um, but since the 1980s, he saysfederal tax rates have fallen.
Yes, that's true.
But taxes still hacked awaybetween one and a half and
almost two percent of themarket's 10% annual performance,
more than one-sixth of the totalreturn.
SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
Now hold on to a minute.
I want to hold at this pointright here, because remember, we
get a lot of calls from peoplegoing, well, why do I want those
Avantis or dimensional fundswhen they cost me three times as
much as four times as much asVanguard?
We're talking about pennies onthe dollar when we're talking
about expense ratios anymore.
Here we're talking about dimeson the dollar.
(02:55):
There's a big, huge difference,and we're ignoring some of these
tax benefits.
And Avantis or a dimensional,they also tend to manage a
little bit to reduce taxesbecause they keep things in
their portfolio longer than alot of other portfolios.
And you could end up with asmaller tax liability just using
(03:16):
ETFs.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
And the turnover is lower because they're not tied
to an index.
Just think, for example, comingup soon, any index that you're
in, they're going to be adding alarge space outfit of some kind
called SpaceX.
Um, that means somebody goesout, that means taxes are paid,
et cetera.
But most of this comes fromtaxes on dividends and periodic
(03:42):
capital gains within that indexfund as membership has changed.
Now, I always forget the rate ondividends is what?
It's not regular income tax.
SPEAKER_00 (03:51):
It it depends on whether they're qualified
dividends.
Uh, but the rate on dividends isgenerally the same as your
income rate.
SPEAKER_01 (04:02):
Okay.
Your regular income tax rate.
By the way, this does notaccount for state or local taxes
when you have clients who livein New York and it gets it,
can't believe that.
But um capital gains are taxed.
SPEAKER_00 (04:18):
Like capital gains.
Okay.
Uh and dividends from uh not alldividends are qualified.
If you if you're getting adividend from a REIT, uh a
limited partnership, uh moneymarket funds, those kinds of
things, those are not qualified.
If they're coming from a stock,they're qualified, so they get
that lower treatment.
(04:39):
But remember, with capital gainsalso might come if you're a
high-income investor, the thenet investment income tax of 3.8
tacked on.
SPEAKER_01 (04:51):
In addition to the long-term rate of 15 and the
short-term rate of twenty.
So you could be paying us up mup up to twenty-five percent,
pretty close to it, for thoseshort-term capital gains.
SPEAKER_00 (05:03):
So and and qualified dividends are taxed at zero,
fifteen, and then when yourincome is over six hundred
thousand jointly, then those aretaxed at twenty.
SPEAKER_01 (05:14):
Yeah.
Then you really start paying alot.
So and and remember, what we'retalking about here is if you
owned a fund where they'repicking stocks or you're picking
your own stocks, then you couldbe paying a lot more in taxes.
But this is for the cheaperversion.
I you know, here's the from1996, he says through the end of
(05:34):
last year, U.S.
stock market return, and I hateto throw too many numbers here,
9.9% pre-tax, but less than 8.3%after tax.
And again, big difference.
Big, big, big difference.
This is something actually topay attention to.
Well, and he makes a good point,by the way, because generally
people select funds what?
Based on return.
Then they look at expenses andthey really don't think about
(05:56):
taxes.
That's how people end up owningthings like the and please don't
buy this, the yield max MSTRoption income strategy, which
sounds amazing because We'vetalked about these funds before.
SPEAKER_00 (06:10):
These are covered call writing kind of funds.
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
February 2024 through the end of 2025, so just
shy of two years, they reportedan annualized average return of
forty-one percent uh waitpre-tax.
Then they buried on page 12 ofthe prospectus, which I'm sure
you all read very carefully, theannualized return for the same
period after taxes, 16.3%.
(06:36):
Uncle Sammy reports earn morethan the fund's investors, which
is really shocking.
SPEAKER_00 (06:42):
That's a huge difference.
And and but it's because it's avery tax inefficient fund.
That that that's the reality, isthat you know, funds like this,
and that's another reason wedon't like them.
Not only are they expensive, andI'm just curious how expensive
this is, in addition to itsincredibly high tax rate, which
(07:02):
is above 50 percent.
SPEAKER_01 (07:04):
Yes, it is.
That's worth paying attention.
But they don't care about that.
They're just trying to make thewrong money.
There you go.
So you're paying the one tothem, then you're paying Uncle
Sam all that.
I mean, it just this is this isuh crazy.
So um, but uh to go back to yoursituation, we know you don't use
funds like this, right?
Well, some of you do, becausethey you call me and you say I'm
(07:27):
in this XYZ fund, and whatshould I do?
And you know my advice is gonnabe get rid of it.
Um but back to where and and bythe way, this is all of these
short-term trading funds, exoticfunds that have high expense
ratios and are horribly taxinefficient, they don't care
about tax, they're not payingattention to taxes at all.
(07:47):
Um and and but let's just youyou made a really good point at
the beginning, Don, and that isbig picture.
Let's talk about the big picturerather than diving into the
smaller things.
First of all, you mentionedexchange traded funds.
In your taxable account, if youcan use ETFs, it makes a ton of
sense.
Because of the capital gains,the way that they're built, the
(08:10):
way they're operated, yourcapital gains sure are going to
be pretty small in any ETFversus a mutual fund where there
could be quite large.
Um, and this is a really justbig picture item.
So if you can move to ETFs inthose taxable accounts, that's a
pretty smart move because thatthat's gonna save you right
(08:30):
there substantially in capitalgains taxes.
SPEAKER_00 (08:34):
Exactly.
And these can be, I mean,really, the the these can make a
big difference.
So you want to tax manage yourportfolio.
Again, you don't want to getobsessed with taxes, but I think
we've gotten too obsessed withfees sometimes, and we have too,
uh, to some extent, ignoring thereal danger and damage done by
(08:56):
taxable income and taxablereturns if your accounts are not
in the right, or if your uhassets are not in the right
accounts.
SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
Yeah, which brings me to number two, knowing the
laws around taxation, the howmuch you're paying on dividends,
how much you're paying oncapital gains, and how much
you're paying for regularincome.
Um you need to know those thingsbecause that's going to help you
build the right portfolio.
It's going to help you withdrawmoney correctly, all of those
things.
The tax sort of treatment ofanything is an incredibly
(09:28):
important part of portfoliodesign and management that
really doesn't get the attentionit deserves.
Because I think people justdon't like to talk about taxes
until they're paying more thanthey think they should.
So that's another one for me.
Um, and then there's in additionto the ETFs and a taxable
account, there's some other, yousaid it, big picture things, and
yes, this seems very obvious,but to most people they don't
(09:49):
think about it much.
And that is, for example,stocks, well, stocks really
should be more in that taxableaccount, right?
If you got to own fixed income,that should be really in your
IRA and 401k because the theinterest that gets paid there
just gets reinvested and you'renot paying tax on it all the
time the way you might be in ataxable account.
So some pretty basic things.
(10:11):
And then really, Jason, whathe's trying to tell you is don't
buy this junk.
Don't buy this stuff that's uhthat may feel great until you
get to the bottom line, you findout that the government's taking
out more than you made in theactual fund.
It's shocking.
SPEAKER_00 (10:26):
I found out why the Yield Max MSTR option strategy
ETF is such a bad one tax-wise.
I I I actually figured out whatthey do.
What do they do?
I'm not familiar with this ETF.
But you're gonna you're gonna beshocked.
SPEAKER_01 (10:45):
Stand by May is Junior, yes.
SPEAKER_00 (10:48):
Yeah, um I I didn't realize I didn't MSTR is not an
abbreviation for I didn't knowwhat that was.
It's uh uh strategy.
MicroStrategy.
The stock.
SPEAKER_01 (11:00):
Oh, our good friends at MicroStrategy, of course,
trading.
SPEAKER_00 (11:03):
The Michael Saylor stock.
So uh in addition to that numberthat Jason Zweig quoted on the
41 percent getting down to what16?
Yes, sixteen.
Well now the total returnbecause of the downturn in
Bitcoin.
Oh no.
Yeah Not only did you get taxdistributed along the way, but
(11:26):
your portfolio uh for the lastyear is down forty plus percent.
SPEAKER_01 (11:32):
Wow.
That's taking a lot of things.
SPEAKER_00 (11:33):
So you got a forty plus percent loss and you had
all those taxable gains.
And that's just insult heapedupon injury.
SPEAKER_01 (11:44):
Yeah.
And this is what when you buy,you know, silly ideas, when you
buy things like this that makeit look like you're gonna make
easy money, you can pay a realprice.
And that clearly that's what'shappened here, right?
SPEAKER_00 (11:56):
Yep.
And here's the thing the moralof our story is focus, focus,
focus on the big stuff.
And there are big things.
The plan, big thing.
Your portfolio allocation, bigthing.
Rebalancing, big thing.
Portfolio location, big thing.
Income planning, big thing.
(12:18):
Tax planning, big thing.
Ignore the little things.
You'll be a lot happier becauseour brains do not have time for
all of those things.
Despite the fact that they arebig brains.
SPEAKER_01 (12:30):
No, they are big brains.
SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
They're not that big.
SPEAKER_01 (12:32):
I tell you what we do have time for.
Your questions.
And you've been so prolific herethe last few days, so thank you
for that.
Because, you know, I likekilling a tree as much as well.
SPEAKER_00 (12:42):
And we still have to we still have to stock up on a
few conversations between youand our lovely listeners, but
we're working on that becauseyou've sent in more questions.
So we'll have some of thosecoming up very soon.
But for now, these questionscame in at talkingreal money.com
on the ask a question buttonthat's there, and you typed them
in Tom Killed a Tree just foryou.
How about that?
This is your memorial treekilling.
SPEAKER_01 (13:03):
Well, you know, it's 'tis the season, and uh
some of those trees are gettingpretty big.
So it's time they take them downa notch or maybe two notch.
SPEAKER_00 (13:10):
They always get big in the Pacific Northwest.
SPEAKER_01 (13:12):
God, they're massive.
Uh from Longmont, Colorado.
Do you know Longmont?
SPEAKER_00 (13:18):
Yeah, it's up uh northern Colorado.
Okay.
Uh Dave writes us and north ofDenver.
SPEAKER_01 (13:24):
Yeah.
First thing he says, yes, Don,Colorado misses you.
SPEAKER_00 (13:28):
Oh, that was kind of I miss you guys too.
SPEAKER_01 (13:31):
Yeah.
The snow, the cold, the changeof weather.
I was getting amazed whenDenver's like winter, though.
70 what 70 degrees one day andthen the next day it's like 20
below.
I was like, come on, really?
Anyway.
SPEAKER_00 (13:41):
Yeah, but the Broncos are going to be getting
a domed stadium soon, so itwon't matter.
SPEAKER_01 (13:45):
Wait, they still have a team there?
Come on.
SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
Um there was one uh power ranking that came out
recently that had them ratednumber one.
I think it was CBS, had themrated number one in the NFL.
SPEAKER_01 (13:58):
I thought the number one team in the NFL was a
certain local bunch of theTrevor Burrus.
SPEAKER_00 (14:02):
They had the Broncos rated ahead of the Seahawks.
SPEAKER_01 (14:04):
Rated, but not actually when it comes to
playing the game.
SPEAKER_00 (14:07):
We don't know because we there's a new season
in the fall.
SPEAKER_01 (14:10):
There's always a new season.
Um okay, Dave, to your question.
Springs Eternal.
Dave writes, hi Tom.
I had a question that reallydoesn't have much to do with
daily investing.
Just wondering about maintainingindependence with indexes
tracked and the companies thatfollow them.
Morningstar, as you know,acquired the CRSP brand indices
(14:33):
and will now be rebranded asMorningstar.
Vanguard has also recentlystarted a closer relationship to
Morningstar as all or most ofattract indexes were CRSP.
I did look into that.
Morningstar added it to, hasbeen added to 13 of the index
funds of around$3.2 billion.
So not a huge amount, but butit's it is significant.
(14:54):
And then he kind of goes intosome other uh non-sequitur?
I think I think you could say hesays, as President Eisenhower
once warned, beware of themilitary-industrial complex.
Now, okay, but he says, shouldthis be applied to large
industrial side companiesglomming into each other as
interlocking business interests?
(15:15):
Beware of the driftingvanguards, beware of the
drifting vanguard moral compass.
Will this affect their funds?
Will will ultimately performover time if Morningstar starts
tinkering with the index makeup,or all is this just more noise,
noise, moise, moise, moise,noise, noise, noise, noise.
SPEAKER_00 (15:33):
Noise, noise, overthinking, thinking,
thinking, thinking,overthinking, overthinking in
Colorado.
SPEAKER_01 (15:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:39):
Overthinking a lot.
Okay, one, uh an index prettymuch is an index, unless it's
particularly these kind ofindexes that are based on market
capitalization.
They are purely market capindexes.
They're not they're not like theS P 500, where there's a bit of
a decision process or the Dowwhere it's 100% people picking
them.
(15:59):
Uh these are the SP, as wepointed out.
That's why I say the SP can be alittle manipulated.
These indexes, I mean, couldthey?
I guess if they totally changethe nature of the indexes, but
anybody who was going to usethem in academic research, and
these really are popular withacademics, Fama and French use
the CRISPR resources.
(16:20):
These are these are normalbecause they are consistent.
And Morningstar is unlikely tomess with something that
consistent.
Plus, there's just not muchmoney in licensing fees for an
index like that.
It's not a big money maker.
Uh and here's the other thing.
The only if Morningstar andVanguard, for example, let's
(16:40):
just say they merged, which theyhaven't.
We they haven't.
They're just having sort of anadvertising kind of sponsorship
relationship because Morningstarhas to make money.
Yep.
Okay?
They gotta make money.
Everybody has to make money.
It's called capitalism.
Even in other systems, funny,people still need to make money
and they want to do it.
(17:01):
Uh the only thing Morningstarreally could do that would be
even slightly suspicious wouldbe to give Vanguard a higher
star rating.
SPEAKER_01 (17:12):
I was waiting for that.
Yes, of course.
But but let's assume they do.
SPEAKER_00 (17:16):
We don't believe in paying any attention to their
star ratings.
And neither should you, by theway.
Uh-uh.
So I think this is theproverbial tempest in a teapot.
Again, back to our big brains.
They like to think up things.
And this this goes to our ourcrazy need for some of us, many
(17:37):
of us, to default to conspiracytheories and suspicion and
skepticism, all of and meincluded.
I I'm a skeptic.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
You're not a conspiracy guy,though.
No, I'm not a conspiracyindustrial.
I'm an Occam's razor guy.
SPEAKER_01 (17:52):
Where are you on the military industrial complex just
so we clean up everything?
That's a real thing.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (17:59):
It exists, and it's it it often, I believe, looks to
profit from war.
Sure.
It's a military industrialcomplex.
Right.
They only do well when you'reblowing their stuff up.
SPEAKER_01 (18:11):
And if you don't believe me, go back and look at
uh where we are with the Navy,for example, 200 years ago.
Quite a different situationthere in terms of What Navy?
SPEAKER_00 (18:20):
It's like three ships.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (18:22):
The size, the money spent, and everything.
And then look at it today.
I'm watching a series on theNavy, which I'm really enjoying.
Ah, that's Tom, history?
I know.
Surprise.
Hard to believe.
Really surprising.
By the way, if you're into suchthings right now, it's a good
time to watch all the football,not just the current games being
played in the World Cup, but allthe sp they're rolling back out
(18:43):
all of the documentaries aboutuh football over the last ten
years.
SPEAKER_00 (18:49):
The only thing I can think of that's more boring than
watching a football match akasoccer, is watching a
documentary about footballmatches.
You thought it was bad, now thisis really bad.
I can't even imagine.
And this is why this is Andhere's an example of why these
men love to play a sport whereyou never score.
SPEAKER_01 (19:10):
By the way, somebody wrote me one of the questions
said, keep the war stuff coming,Tom.
I like it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:15):
So You know what I discovered the other day?
I went with some friends to ahappy hour at a uh place STK.
There's one in Bellevue.
Uh and uh we were at the bar andthey had a TV on.
It was a Saturday, and there's afootball game.
SPEAKER_01 (19:30):
Yeah.
Football.
Like football.
Like American football.
SPEAKER_00 (19:33):
Like American football.
And I look up and it it's it'ssomebody uh from Birmingham and
Houston, and I'm going,Birmingham, huh?
Didn't know that.
And then I realized it was theUFL, which I didn't even Yeah,
they're back.
I I did not even realize Orlandohas a team.
There you go.
(19:54):
I live here, I didn't know wehad a team.
I see Orlando's in the playoffs,and I went, Oh, I maybe I should
go see the playoff game.
Then I looked, and this is whereit ties back into what you're
talking about, because they'renot real popular, kind of like
soccer, they play in the Orlandosoccer, the Orlando City soccer
field.
SPEAKER_01 (20:13):
Which is a nice facility.
SPEAKER_00 (20:14):
But it's small.
It's like, you know, it's likean 18,000 seat stadium.
So they play there.
Well, they're in the playoffsfor the UFL.
Nobody planned for this, and theOrlando City team is playing at
those dates.
That's gonna be tricky becauseOrlando play their UFL game
(20:35):
there.
They're going to Ohio.
Well, that's very close, as youknow, to Orlando.
SPEAKER_01 (20:40):
Ohio, Orlando.
SPEAKER_00 (20:41):
It's actually a summer game.
They probably stand a betterchance in Ohio.
SPEAKER_01 (20:45):
That's a good point.
SPEAKER_00 (20:47):
Can't imagine playing.
Oh man.
It's probably gonna be 95-95 aswe call it.
95 degrees, 95% relativehumidity.
SPEAKER_01 (20:55):
All right.
Anyway, you got anotherquestion?
Military yes, militaryindustrial crowd.
Another one from um Augusta,Kansas.
Chris says, I'm retired, butworking four to twelve hours a
week at$17 an hour as a favor.
It's a favor to me, too, saysChris, but because it's getting
me out of the house.
They're paying Kansas taxes, butopt out of federal.
(21:17):
They gave me the impression I'mnot making enough for federal
taxes.
Can I still put these smallchecks into my Roth IRA?
Yes.
Yeah.
By the way, looked it up.
Do you know how much you have tomake to have to file a tax
return?
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
It's more than the the the five to ten thousand
he's making.
SPEAKER_01 (21:35):
Yeah.
Married, thirty one thousandfive hundred.
Single, if you're over sixtyfive, seventeen thousand seven
hundred fifty.
If you're under sixty five, youyoung crazy kids, fifteen
thousand seven hundred andfifty.
SPEAKER_00 (21:47):
So even if no it doesn't matter.
No matter what age, at that atseventeen dollars for a part
time job, you don't pay anytaxes.
SPEAKER_01 (21:58):
So they're doing it right, but that you can't
SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
That is income and you can definitely Now I I
hopefully they're taking outSocial Security and Medicare,
because those are stillrequired.
Yes, they are.
At any income level.
That's right.
Even if you're collecting SocialSecurity.
That's right.
Guess what?
You're doing both.
How about you?
I'm going, I'm pay I'm taking itin and I'm paying it out.
(22:22):
Very confusing.
SPEAKER_01 (22:24):
But you're getting that check every month.
Is it monthly?
How often do you get your money?
SPEAKER_00 (22:28):
What are you?
I'm putting it out there.
I'm kidding.
SPEAKER_01 (22:33):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:34):
I was hoping for you.
Every month on the thirdWednesday.
unknown (22:37):
All right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:37):
So I'll come by.
By the way, it's not a check.
It's just magic money thatappears at your bank.
Love those magic things.
You got another question thatcame in and talked about real
money?
SPEAKER_01 (22:49):
That's all.
Anything else?
Two taste treats and one.
Yeah, keep them coming.
Questions for Don, you can voicethem.
Questions for me, you can typethem.
SPEAKER_00 (22:57):
And on the new website, it's so much easier.
You just go to the lowerright-hand corner and there's a
microphone button.
Push it.
Record your question.
Push it.
Then you can listen back and go,yeah, okay, I sounded stupid.
I'll do it again.
But if you think the qualityisn't good, don't worry about
that.
If you listen, you go, it wasterrible quality.
Don't worry, Don has a magic,magic machine that uh turns it
(23:22):
into really high quality audio.
SPEAKER_01 (23:25):
Where were you in the early part of my broadcast
career?
I could have really used that.
SPEAKER_00 (23:28):
I'm telling you No, not I I did find Although I had
some actualities when I was anews guy that could have stood
for a little of that.
You know, I was an early uhdigital edge.
SPEAKER_01 (23:38):
Actuality is let's that that's a little bit of uh
jargon.
SPEAKER_00 (23:41):
You mean an actuality is a uh uh uh an
insert in the news.
SPEAKER_01 (23:47):
It's like a voice from someone else.
SPEAKER_00 (23:49):
Someone else, where you you got an interview with
somebody and you add their voicein.
That's an actuality.
It means it actually happened,as opposed to the newscaster who
is a figment of yourimagination.
I don't know that, but okay.
I'll go with it.
We're we're imaginary.
We could be with AI, we could beimaginary.
We could be totally fake.
That's probably coming, so don'tdon't don't imagine.
(24:11):
Not many would know thedifference.
As a matter of fact, wait,before we go, let me just give
you Don McDonald announcingwhere you can go to uh meet with
an advisor via my AI voice.
Okay, so here's the deal.
If you would like one of our100% fiduciary advisors to help
(24:32):
you understand your portfoliobetter or see if you're on track
for a comfortable retirement,you can meet with one of them
for free for nothing just bygoing to talkingrealmoney.com
and clicking on the button thatsays meet an advisor.
You'll get help, but here's whatyou won't get a bill, any kind
of obligation, or high pressuresales pitch.
(24:52):
None of those things.
What you are getting right nowis a very fake me, but derived
from the real me, so it kind ofsounds like me, but it kind of
misses some of the I don't know,inflection stuff, I'm guessing.
We'll find out as soon as it'sdone.
So anyway, go totalkingrealmoney.com, click on
that button that says Meet anAdvisor.
(25:14):
That's meet an advisor,talkingrealmoney.com, and I'm
now done.
Or at least my robot's done.
Okay, that wasn't as good asactual me.
SPEAKER_01 (25:24):
I know the inflexion.
I don't think it has quite thesame ring to it, but okay.
SPEAKER_00 (25:27):
No, no, no, no.
It's missing the the it's youcan tell it's definitely missing
the emotional The intonation isjust not there for me.
Look at you with the big word.
Spell it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:40):
I think that's a pretty easy one.
SPEAKER_00 (25:42):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (25:42):
Intoning.
Doesn't mean you're smart, asone teacher told me once.
SPEAKER_00 (25:49):
You could be a bumblebee.
SPEAKER_01 (25:50):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (25:51):
Or ant bee.
Or a doobie.
Oh, that you know what that'sfrom?
Do a be a doobie, not a don'tbe.
What's that from?
I do.
You don't know the show that'sfrom?
No.
The show called Romper Room.
SPEAKER_01 (26:07):
Yeah, I remember Romper Room the show, of course.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:09):
It was you doob.
SPEAKER_01 (26:10):
So they were handing out doobies to all these kids?
Doobies?
I don't remember that part.
I tuned in the wrong day orsomething.
So too bad.
SPEAKER_00 (26:19):
It was it was uh yeah, early enablers.
All right.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you for being here fortalking real money.
I'm Don.
This is me.
And that guy over there, that'sTom.
And uh five days a week or so,we're talking real money.
SPEAKER_02 (26:35):
The opinions and views expressed on this podcast
were current on the daterecorded.
Opinions, estimates, forecasts,and statements of financial
market trends that are based oncurrent market conditions
constitute our judgment and oursubjects change without notice,
including any forward-lookingestimates or statements which
are based on certainexpectations and assumptions.
SPEAKER_03 (26:49):
Although information and opinions given have been
obtained from or based onsources believed to be reliable,
no warranty or representation ismade as to their correctness,
completeness, or accuracy.
SPEAKER_02 (26:58):
Information presented on the podcast is not
personalized investment advicefrom Oppello Wealth.
The views and strategiesdescribed may not be suitable
for everyone.
This podcast does not identifyall the risks, direct or
indirect, or otherconsiderations which might be
material to you when enteringany financial transaction.
Past performance does notguarantee feature results, and
profitable results cannot beguaranteed.
We hope you realize that theinformation provided on Talking
Real Money is for informational,educational, and hopefully
(27:20):
enjoyable purposes only.
The podcast is not trying to getyou to buy or sell any financial
products or securities.
Instead, the program is providedas a public service by Appello
Wealth, a fee-only registeredinvestment advisor.
SPEAKER_03 (27:31):
See Appello Vote, ADB, to any other website for
information regardingAppellate's fees and services.
SPEAKER_02 (27:36):
Apellet Capital, LLC, DBA Apello Wealth, is an
investment advisory firmregistered with the Securities
and Exchange Commission.
The firm only transacts businessin the states where it is
properly registered, or excludedor exempt from registration
requirement.
Registration with the SEC or anyState Securities Authority does
not imply a certain level ofskill or training.
Apello does not provide tax orlegal advice, and nothing either
stated or implied here should beinferred as providing such
(27:57):
advice.
Thanks for listening, and pleasevisit talkingrealmoney.com for
more information and importantdisclosure related to
performance of any specificindex or fund quoted in this
podcast.
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