June 22, 2026 • 25 mins
Tom welcomes back advisor Roxy Butner for a wide-ranging discussion that begins with practical financial advice for new graduates and quickly expands into questions from listeners about student loans, emergency funds, retirement savings, portfolio construction, mortgages in retirement, and the coming frenzy around a potential SpaceX IPO. Along the way, they explore the tradeoffs between debt repayment and investing, the role of small-cap value tilts in diversified portfolios, why taxes matter when funding a major purchase from an IRA, and how investors should think about highly publicized investment opportunities.
0:05 – Roxy Butner returns to the show by popular demand as Tom welcomes her back for a summer discussion of listener questions and financial topics.
0:57 – Graduation season prompts a conversation about money advice for new graduates and young adults starting their financial lives.
1:23 – Tom references recommendations from financial journalist Jill Schlesinger, including the importance of tracking spending before creating any financial plan.
2:05 – Why understanding cash flow is the foundation of every financial decision, from debt repayment to investing.
2:31 – The surprising statistic that roughly 60% of college graduates leave school with student loan debt and why understanding loan terms matters.
3:30 – Roxy explains how graduates should evaluate student loan repayment versus investing based on cash flow and interest rates.
4:11 – Building an emergency fund and why high-yield savings accounts remain a preferred location for short-term reserves.
4:23 – Retirement savings for young workers, including the importance of capturing employer matches and establishing savings habits early.
5:39 – Why freezing your credit can be a simple and effective defense against identity theft and fraud.
6:43 – Listener question from Del Rio, Texas: Is AVGE enough small-cap value exposure for investors who follow factor-based investing principles?
7:38 – Comparing AVGE’s built-in factor tilts with the heavier small-cap value allocations often recommended by Paul Merriman.
8:32 – The long-term historical outperformance of U.S. small-cap value stocks and the tradeoff of accepting greater volatility.
9:33 – Why Avantis intentionally chooses moderate factor tilts rather than aggressive small-cap allocations.
10:25 – Roxy discusses risk-adjusted returns and the dangers of assuming that higher expected returns automatically justify larger allocations.
11:37 – The appeal of simplicity and why a one-fund portfolio like AVGE can help investors avoid behavioral mistakes.
12:31 – Listener question from Kansas City: Should retirees withdraw $1 million from an IRA to pay cash for a new home or take a mortgage?
13:00 – A retired couple with a $4.2 million net worth faces a decision between a large IRA withdrawal and a mortgage at roughly 6.3%.
14:14 – Why a massive IRA withdrawal could trigger substantial taxes and reduce portfolio flexibility.
14:41 – Tom explains the difference between evaluating cash flow needs and preserving overall net worth.
16:03 – The importance of maintaining liquidity in retirement and avoiding excessive concentration of wealth in a personal residence.
16:41 – Roxy proposes a compromise strategy: take the mortgage now and gradually make larger payments using carefully managed annual IRA withdrawals.
18:05 – A brief discussion about lake homes, neighboring properties, and the appeal of having family nearby.
18:42 – Tom asks Roxy about investor excitement surrounding a possible SpaceX IPO and whether investors should participate.
19:32 – Why investors may already gain exposure through index funds and retirement plans without purchasing shares directly.
20:38 – IPO investing as speculation, the role of familiarity bias, and why investors should be cautious about concentrated bets.
21:57 – How major IPOs eventually enter market indexes and become part of broadly diversified portfolios.
22:02 – Summer plans, weddings, Seattle sunshine, and a lighter closing conversation.
23:19 – How listeners can submit questions or schedule a free portfolio review through TalkingRealMoney.com.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:05):
You're gonna do a really great financial future.
Tom and Don are talking realmoney.
SPEAKER_00 (00:12):
Hi, welcome to Talking Real Money.
I'm Tom Cock.
You know, some of you write usand ask for a return of Roxy.
So, you know, popular demand, Ihave to accede to your wishes
because really, at the end ofthe day, it's all about you, not
about me.
So today, your your wish is ourcommand.
Roxy Butner, one of ouradvisors, joining us today.
(00:33):
We're going to talk about somequestions, some other topics
that have come up, but I willjust say it is good to see you.
SPEAKER_02 (00:39):
Good to see you on this beautiful sunny day.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
Yes, Seattle is uh looking glorious today with the
greens and the blues andwhatever that object up in the
sky is, which is a littleintimidating, but um try to work
around it.
And as we head into, well, we'reby the time this airs, we'll be
well into summer.
So I hope you all enjoy yoursummer too.
So we're gonna take somequestions here in a couple
minutes.
I'm also gonna uh ask Roxy aboutone that she did not get a
(01:03):
chance to prepare for.
But before we even do that, itis graduation season.
Yeah, I got one of those in myhouse, sadly.
Daughter's headed off to collegenext year, not too excited about
that.
But trying to be a, you know, bea good sport about the whole
thing.
But it does bring to mind adviceto young people.
And by the way, I think havingread these a couple of times,
this is advice for everybody.
(01:25):
But uh money moves for newgraduates, whether they be for
the most part, this would becollege graduates, right?
Because uh if people if you'reheading off to college, it's not
quite as apt.
But some ideas here, some thingsto think about and maybe share
with those in your life that aregraduating or just transitioning
from one sort of spot toanother.
(01:45):
This is from an art uh JillSchlesinger, who whose work we
greatly respect, Jill on Money.
I think she does a great job.
And she gave a couple tips.
I like these.
I thought I'd bring them up, butmaybe pop them here on Roxy too.
She would see what she says.
But uh number one, which I findfascinating, is pay attention to
spending.
Determine how much money isavailable to accelerate debt
(02:07):
payoff and what you can start tosave and invest.
In other words, well, firstbefore you do any of that, you
gotta know how much you'respending, right?
I mean, that's the that seems tobe that comes up in a lot of
adult conversations too.
SPEAKER_02 (02:18):
Yeah.
Being intentional about whereyour money's going and not just
kind of hiding from your bankaccount like we hear a lot of
people talk about.
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
Yeah, that happens a lot.
But this is a one that's moredisturbing.
And by the way, until you knowthat, you can't really have any
financial planning at allbecause you gotta figure that
out first.
But this one is disturbing.
It's sad for me to read that 60%of the class of 2026 will
graduate from college with astudent loan.
That seems high, but maybe it'snot.
Well, the recommendation here isif you're one of many who
(02:47):
borrowed from Uncle Sam, startby logging into studentaid.gov
and determine the amount ofmoney you owe, the interest
rates associated with the loan,and the payment terms.
I also didn't know that you gotsix months until after you
graduate to do.
Do you have any advice forpeople that uh have borrowed
money to get an education?
SPEAKER_02 (03:05):
Yeah, I mean, this conversation comes up all the
time with all sorts of debt,actually.
Aggressive payoff or investearly, and it really is, it
comes down to your cash flow.
So before getting into studentloan debt, first you want to
look at average salary price,average salaries for what you're
going to be earning straight outof college if you land a job
straight out of college, becausethat should help decipher how
(03:27):
much you should take on forstudent loans, first of all.
Um but once you're after youknow graduated and you're
working, it's a really matter oflooking at your cash flow and
the income that you have and theinterest rates on those loans to
decide whether you should beaggressively paying them off or
investing a little bit whilemaking the minimum payments,
that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00 (03:45):
Aaron Ross Powell And the whole program of not
having to pay them back that wasCOVID, that's all gone, right?
And everybody's had to startthat all up again.
SPEAKER_02 (03:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:52):
Those those little caveats that allowed people to
put this off for later.
Uh yeah, so not easy.
But brings me to number three.
Um setting up an emergencyreserve fund.
Now she recommends anywhere fromsix to twelve months of
expenses.
12 months would be a lot.
But um you should be doing that.
And then once they have thatmoney, where do they put it?
High yield savings count.
(04:13):
Okay, which are pretty easy tofind, right?
I mean, you can go to Bankrateor you could go to she mentioned
depositaccounts.com.
I don't know them, but Bankratehas all kinds of information
there.
So that is well up my list.
And then she says, contribute toa retirement account.
Now, she says, even if you havestudent loans, create the habit
of saving for retirement.
(04:34):
If your plan, if your job ratheroffers a retirement plan, an
employer-sponsored plan,contribute at least up to the
match if there is one.
Now, she doesn't say if there'snot one, should you be if you
have to pay people back, shouldyou be saving as well?
What's your advice on that one?
SPEAKER_02 (04:50):
I really think you have to look at the interest
rates of those loans.
If they're less than 5%, I thinkyou should be putting a small
amount towards your retirementaccounts.
The Roth particularly would begreat.
SPEAKER_00 (05:01):
Aaron Powell Yeah, lower income, Roth, great,
because you're going to get allthat tax-free savings.
You don't necessarily need thetax break today.
So but that's a balancing act.
So I'd like the advice, at leastgetting the free money.
If you're not getting the matchof any kind, it's trickier for
me, but uh but but it's worthconsidering.
And you and she's right.
Getting in the habit of saving,saving early, putting it away,
(05:23):
building that up for a longtime.
We know the number oneoverlooked aspect of investing
is uh is interest on interest,right?
Growth and growth cancompounding interest is huge.
Then she says, guard againstfraud, freeze and manage your
credit.
Um I don't know how many peopledo this.
I think I asked recently at ameeting, and people are like,
nope, I don't do that.
(05:43):
But it's I think.
I recently did.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (05:46):
Because my parents went through identity fraud.
And then all of a sudden I waslike, wow, why don't I freeze my
credit?
I'm not using it.
So I it seems unusual to giveadvice like this to graduates,
but why not?
It's easy to unfreeze if you goand apply for a loan, so might
as well do it.
SPEAKER_00 (06:01):
So you do it, and then if you excuse me, if you
have to borrow money, you canunfreeze it, et cetera, et
cetera.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, we're in the summermonths.
I think unfreezing thing makessense anyway.
So there you go.
All right.
Your questions are always at thecenter of our planning for the
show of discussion and uh tryingto figure out what to talk about
because these are uh topics thatyou want to know.
(06:21):
So and it's easy, by the way, toask us a question.
You can ask one on Don's show.
You got the ones recorded.
You can um type one in.
You just go totalkingrealmoney.com,
talkingrealmoney.com, and clickon ask a question.
Sometimes I may call you oremail you actually and say, do
you want to discuss it and havea live call about it?
But fine, we're happy just toanswer them as they are.
(06:43):
We'll get plenty of them and uhkeep them coming.
Roxy is going to take up a fewof those right now.
SPEAKER_02 (06:50):
Okay, the first one here is from Jeff in Del Rio,
Texas.
And the subject is is AVGEenough small cap value?
Hi, Tom and Don.
I wrote you a few months backabout liquidating$200,000 in
about 20 individual stocks whenI left Edward Jones.
I'm happy to report that besides$25,000, I put in SGOV, which is
(07:13):
a iShares zero to three monthtreasury ETS.
SPEAKER_00 (07:16):
Very short-term sort of cash type of investment, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (07:19):
For future taxes.
The rest has been investedsolely in AVGE at Schwab.
SPEAKER_00 (07:24):
Which is the Avantis Global Equity Fund.
One fund owns the whole world.
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (07:30):
As a big Paul Merriman fan as well and
believing in the factors, myquestion is if AVGE has a large
enough um wrong page here, smallcap value tilt to be effective.
Paul recommends 50% in smallcaps in most of his portfolios.
I know AVGV is another option,but don't want to avoid large
(07:54):
cap growth altogether.
For reference, my Roth IRA is40% total US, 30% total
international, and 30% small capvalue in AVUV.
And I don't even and I don'tknow if even that is enough
small cap value.
Am I just splitting hairs atthis point?
(08:14):
I wanted AVGE for itssimplicity, so adding AVUV or
AVDV kind of derails thepurpose.
Thanks for everything and all ofyour education.
SPEAKER_00 (08:24):
Yeah, this is this comes up.
Um a couple things to thinkabout here.
First of all, and I know Paulwell, as you know, he's a
friend, colleague, and a formerpartner.
So and I I know all the thingshe talks about.
And the number one, I think he,if he died tomorrow, he wants to
make sure the whole world knowsabout U.S.
small cap value and the powerthat it has, because as an asset
(08:45):
class, for about a hundredyears, it's made almost four
percent more per year than largecap growth.
Okay, that's a very importantreason to own it.
But it's a riskier asset class,it's a more volatile asset
class, and like any asset class,it can have long periods of
underperformance.
In fact, it tends to sort ofhave these little spurts, goes,
and then it sits there for along time.
(09:06):
And if you just were in largecap growth uh for the decade
before the last couple of years,you would have been done far
better than having all thatsmall cap value.
But here's something I want youto think about.
The folks at Avantis, these arepeople that uh have an academic
basing, right?
That's where they came from,that's their orientation.
Many of them used to work atDimensional, which is another
very fine firm, and they'vespent a lot of time trying to
(09:30):
put together the best portfoliothey think that is back tested
as well as it can be, that'sgoing to give you the best
return.
And in their opinion, the amountof AVUV, which is what they have
in A V G E, right, theunderlying asset class they own
is through that fund.
They believe those percentagesare correct.
(09:51):
I if Paul recommends 50%, Godbless him.
I think that's great.
That's higher than we would do.
And by the way, um I think we'remostly small cap value because
small cap growth does not havethe outperformance.
I personally, if it was my Roth,I'd just put an A V G E, take a
aspirin, and call me in themorning.
I think you'd be fine with that.
(10:11):
But what's your take on allthis?
SPEAKER_02 (10:12):
Yeah, I agree.
And this, because of our historywith Paul Merriman, it does come
up when we talk to folks, to behonest.
Um and it makes sense kind oflogically.
You you think let's just do alittle bit in everything and
kind of equal weight it, right?
Um but like Tom said, Avantis isnot only looking at returns, but
they are looking at therisk-adjusted return.
And that's a big factor herewhen you overweight so heavily
(10:34):
in small cap.
Uh it's the conversation ofshould we mirror the market with
some tilts to these factors, orshould we do an equal weighting
approach?
And uh we would argue that ifyou do an equal weighting
approach, it's sort of anargument that markets aren't as
efficient as you know, evidenceshows us that they are.
Um, because you're basicallysaying that the markets are
(10:55):
mispricing small and mid-cap,and so it's a little bit more of
a bet um as opposed to followingthe market.
So for all the reasons youmentioned, I totally agree.
I think I would stick with theyou know 20% or so that Avantis
puts of small cap value in theAVGE fund and not overcomplicate
things.
SPEAKER_00 (11:14):
Yeah, and I'm I have a chat with Paul coming up here
soon on a podcast.
So I will ask him about his uhwhy he has I didn't realize it's
50% in small.
That's yeah, that's asignificant amount.
And again, I I trust Avantis todo the right thing.
I think they're you make a verygood point.
It's not just how much you makethat counts, it's how much you
get to keep, right?
Because a risk-adjusted returnhas a lot to do with that.
(11:36):
But I will take that up.
I would take the one fund.
I I love what you said aboutsimplicity.
We know oftentimes when peopleget into these things and with
more than one fund and therebalancing gets to be tough and
it's counterintuitive.
And uh I'll give you an examplethis year where emerging markets
were up 35% last year, they'reup another 25% this year.
Do you want to be selling that?
(11:57):
I mean, oh, you want to run notreally because it's you want to
let those winners run.
So it's very difficult.
So, yeah, I trust their work andI like the aspect of making it
easy.
The portfolio is set, themoney's growing, and my take
would be in the in A V GE, overthe long haul, you can expect a
return probably better than justa regular global index fund,
(12:20):
again, because you're tiltingmore to small and to value.
But great question, and thankyou for listening to the show.
SPEAKER_02 (12:26):
Okay, all right.
What else we got here?
What else we have here?
This is from an anonymouslistener in Kansas City,
Missouri.
Subject is mortgage versuswithdrawal from IRA for a new
home.
The question is my husband and Iare 59 and 62 respectively,
(12:46):
retired and living full-time atour lake home.
I want to build a second homenext door to my son and
grandsons who live three hoursaway.
My net worth is roughly 4.2million, with 3 million of that
in my IRA.
My advisor is recommendinggetting a$700,000 mortgage
rather than withdrawing from ourIRA due to the immediate and
(13:09):
significant tax implications oftaking the money out all in one
year.
In addition, they caution wecould be losing the opportunity
to earn higher returns than thecurrent mortgage rates.
And when our advisor runs ourprobability of success for our
retirement plan, it comes outthe same probability if we take
a million dollar lump sum out ofthe IRA in order to net$700,000
(13:30):
for the mortgage or for thepayout, yep, or if we get a
mortgage.
In either scenario, we should beable to cover all our living
expenses and still have money tovacation, et cetera, and not run
out of money until our 90s.
Even though average returns overthe long run have historically
outpaced the current 6.3%mortgage rates, it seems to me
(13:51):
like we would be making amistake to get a mortgage rather
than pay cash.
What is your recommendation?
SPEAKER_00 (13:55):
Wow, that's a that's a tough one.
By the way, I'm going to correctyou mildly on your last
assumption here about the 6.3%mortgage rates and average
return.
Average investor return issomewhere between 5 and 6%.
So while the market has returnedsubstantially more than that,
the average investor has notmade that for a variety of
reasons.
Costs, trading, uh making baddecisions at the wrong time,
(14:18):
that kind of thing.
So I would never count on, well,I know I'm going to make more
than the 6.3.
By the way, it could go into adecade where it makes less,
right?
We've had pretty good run forstocks here for some time.
But at the end of the day, whatyou're talking about is taking a
million dollars out of thatqualified account.
And you're right, about a thirdof that, or maybe 30%, is going
to be handed right out to thegovernment.
(14:40):
Um rather than borrowing it.
I mean, here's the way I wouldlook at it.
You're looking at two differentthings.
To me, it's cash flow and thennet worth as a separate issue.
The cash flow, if you could payit, I'd rather see you borrow
the money at the 6%, pay thatmortgage over time.
And by the way, you couldalways, this is not irrevocable,
(15:02):
it's not binary, you can makethat change anywhere along the
way, and not pay that hugeamount in taxes and have all
that money locked up in thehome.
This is something we try to talkabout in retirement to people.
Having a paid-off home at onelevel feels great because
emotionally it's like, well,that's all paid for it.
I got nothing there, not nopayment, et cetera.
(15:23):
The downside of that is now, inyour case, a third of the money
that you had set aside in aqualified account is now tied up
in that home and you can't getaccess to it to do the
vacations, to take care ofyourself or whatever health care
things come up as you get older.
So in this case, I think Iprobably would be in favor of
(15:44):
keeping the liquidity, notpaying the big tax bill.
Sometimes, by the way, I worryadvisors tell you don't take the
money out of the account becausethey're going to get paid less
money if they have less moneythey're managing for you.
So sometimes there's an aspectof self-interest that concerns
me.
But in this case, I think I gotto go along with the advisor and
tell you to borrow that money,build the home, which is a
wonderful thing, by the way.
Um I live in a lake home too, soI just on a beautiful day like
(16:07):
it is today, I just I want toleave the office and go see the
money.
SPEAKER_02 (16:09):
How would your daughter feel if you build a
house right next to her futurehouse?
SPEAKER_00 (16:13):
I don't think she'd be any either of them would be
very excited about that.
But in this case, I think, yeah,I think I I would agree with him
that I would I would uh from acash flow standpoint, I think I
would borrow the money and uhand uh and do it that way rather
than taking out a milliondollars from my IRA.
What's your take?
SPEAKER_02 (16:30):
Aaron Powell I agree with that.
Yeah, I mean everything youmentioned, you know, he'll be in
the higher tax bracket over 30,probably into the 35 percent of
the five years.
SPEAKER_00 (16:38):
Yeah, that's the other one that's gonna be steep.
SPEAKER_02 (16:40):
Um so you're paying more in taxes, you're reducing
your liquidity.
That's the number one, it reallyis, because you just don't know
what comes up, and you don'tknow if all of those what-ifs
are even factored into your youmentioned you did the Monte
Carlo and you went through theplan, which is great, but have
you factored in long-term careand higher expenses and all of
that stuff?
The worst thing you'd want tohave is all your equity in your
(17:03):
home, and then you get to apoint where, God forbid, you
need to take a reverse mortgageor something like that to pay
for your long-term care.
I guess you could sell thehouse, but my suggestion would
be to maybe come to a compromiseand say, I understand, you know,
this emotionally, you don't wantto have debt, you don't want to
have a mortgage, nobody likes tohave that in retirement.
But you could take the mortgageand then maybe strategically
(17:27):
each year fill up the 24%bracket and make some extra
payments.
SPEAKER_00 (17:31):
I like that.
So what you're saying is uhevery year look at how much
money you could still take outand not bust the bracket, stay
in the 24, take that out, paythe mortgage down, because then
you're the you're you're sort ofsolving for the issue that you
said earlier about not being indebt.
That's good.
I like that.
SPEAKER_02 (17:46):
It's a bit of a compromise.
You might pay it off a littlebit earlier and um allows you to
not pay the 35, 32 percentbracket.
SPEAKER_00 (17:54):
Very, very uh very creative of you.
That's good.
So uh we wish you well.
How exciting to build something.
Well, as you said, maybe in mylife it might be exciting.
There's there's a house nextdoor where they just on the lake
I live in, about half of thepeople live there full time.
It's a very small number.
So the people on both sides ofus are basically never there.
So recently, the one house,there was all this cleaning, all
(18:16):
this commotion next door, and Ithought, ah, they must be
getting ready to sell it.
And then I start thinking likethis, these folks like, should I
buy that and put my you know, mykids have a place?
Oh, nah, they all live 20minutes away, so they don't
really need that.
SPEAKER_02 (18:29):
They're coming back for the summer, huh?
SPEAKER_00 (18:30):
Yeah, exactly.
So it turned out it wasn't forsale.
So anyway, good for you.
I think that's a great idea.
We got uh one more we cansqueeze in here?
No?
SPEAKER_02 (18:37):
I think we would don't have another one.
SPEAKER_00 (18:39):
Okay, so I got a question for you.
Um because this comes up andit's coming up fairly
frequently, although by the timethis airs, it may be uh past
due.
But the SpaceX IPO, amongothers, which is going to be I I
believe the largest, it's gonnabe if it hasn't already been
about$75 billion, the valuationof the company somewhere between
(19:00):
one and a half and two trilliondollars.
So people get I knew people getworked up about this a long time
ago.
I said this is gonna be a bigdeal.
And SpaceX, in an unusual move,is making the shares directly at
IPO available to the public.
Now I don't know how that works.
But we've already had peoplecalling us, clients, others
saying, hey, how do I get in onthis really hot IPO?
And how do they get in on thisreally hot IPO, Roxy?
SPEAKER_02 (19:23):
Well, I just listened to something actually
about this the other day, andthey were saying, you know,
people are all up in a frenzyabout this, and everybody wants
in.
Um they did change, if correctme if I'm wrong, recently there
were some changes to 401regulations before this IPO
comes out, which actually willmean that it'll allow this new
IPO to become a part of themutual funds in the 401k.
SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
Oh, they they they are going to be joining indexes
very quickly.
Yeah.
Yes, that's true.
SPEAKER_02 (19:51):
So you may not need to physically go and do
anything.
You might actually already getexposure pretty quickly.
Um but I did have a client whowants to be a part of this.
And I mean, buying anyindividual stock, uh it's it's
placing a bet.
Also, it's like definitelyfamiliarity bias, right?
We all are familiar with thenews and it's all over the
(20:12):
internet.
Um that those alone are notgreat reasons to go out and buy
anything.
SPEAKER_00 (20:17):
Dimensional studies have found that IPOs
underperform for the first year.
So there's there's a lot ofexamples of a first day pop, and
then the pop goes a weasel afterthat, right?
So those are good reasons.
Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
SPEAKER_02 (20:29):
So I mean uh if a client came to me and said, I
want in on this, I would say,let's look at how much is
reasonable to take, a smallportion of your portfolio, and
I'd hand it over to them, tellthem to go open up a play
account.
SPEAKER_00 (20:42):
Like a that's the right word, too, because that's
what you're doing.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_02 (20:46):
Yeah.
And go ahead and and takeadvantage of it if you want, you
know, but not over uh weightyourself towards something like
that.
It's an interesting company.
I mean, people don't realizeit's made up of what is it,
Starlink, which I think has donereally well.
SPEAKER_00 (21:00):
That's the thick only place I think they make
money.
The space trips and the rest ofit are really not productive,
but the idea of providinginternet to people all over the
world has worked.
SPEAKER_02 (21:07):
Aaron Powell And now most recently the XAI, which I
guess is their kind of movementtowards AI, and that has had a
massive loss in 2025, I thinkover five billion dollars or
something.
So um it'll be interesting tosee what plays out.
I think people are more making abet on maybe Elon and the kind
of the hype that goes around it,like with any major IPO.
SPEAKER_00 (21:29):
Yeah, I think you make a very good point, is the
fact that uh this stock will bein if you're an index investor,
you're gonna own it anywaypretty soon.
They're gonna move it into thesemajor indexes.
We won't, because the companiesthat we work with specifically
do not invest in IPOs, I thinkfor at least a year.
So we won't have exposure tothis for a long time.
But again, uh regular uh VT orVT SACs or those are going to be
(21:54):
adding them, the S P 500, ofcourse, because it will be, I
think, the sixth or seventhlargest company in the index
right off the bat with thatmarket capitalization.
So good advice, Roxy.
As always, great advice.
You got any fun plans for thesummer you can share with our
listeners?
People want to know what you'redoing.
SPEAKER_02 (22:10):
My best friend is getting married 4th of July.
SPEAKER_00 (22:12):
Well, that's exciting.
SPEAKER_02 (22:14):
And we also have a coworker who's giving birth
potentially has a due date on4th of July.
SPEAKER_00 (22:18):
So I didn't know that was the 4th of July.
Wow.
Independence day, no longerindependent.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (22:22):
So that's so just some, you know, wedding plans.
We just went on a littlebachelorette trip in Miami,
which was awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (22:28):
We saw the Insta, yeah, of course.
Checking all the pictures out.
SPEAKER_02 (22:31):
So besides that, um, you know, just lots of weddings
and stuff like that.
Good for you.
Enjoying the summer in Seattle.
SPEAKER_00 (22:37):
Well, summer in Seattle, that's the this is our
time to shine.
So somebody, somebody ourheadquarters in Connecticut just
asked me the other day ifthey're if I was excited.
I said, summer is this isSeattle's and my place on the
lake and all that stuff, I thisis this is this is the moment.
So you can't.
Don't rub it in, Tom.
Don't rub it in.
I'm rubbing it in every moment Iget.
I'm gonna let it go.
Hey, you got questions?
(22:58):
We'll we'll drag Roxy back onhere again in the next few
weeks, so go totalkingrealmoney.com, click on
ask a question.
If you want some help fromsomebody like Roxy, or
specifically, just go there andsay Meet an advisor.
It's right on the website, anduh.
We'll also answer some of yourquestions, give you a little
review of your overallsituation.
We do that free, and uh uh we'reglad to help any way we can.
(23:21):
Roxy, thanks again for takingtime.
I know you're busy.
SPEAKER_02 (23:23):
My pleasure.
SPEAKER_00 (23:24):
It's always great to talk to you.
It's always great to talk toyou, and you know we'll be
talking all the time, justaround here talking real money.
SPEAKER_01 (23:32):
The opinions and views expressed on this podcast
were current on the daterecorded.
Opinions, estimates, forecasts,and statements of financial
market trends that are based oncurrent market conditions
constitute our judgment and oursubjects change without notice,
including any forward-lookingestimates or statements which
are based on certainexpectations and assumptions.
Although information andopinions given have been
obtained from or based onsources believed to be reliable,
no warranty or representation ismade as to their correctness,
(23:52):
completeness, or accuracy.
Information presented on thepodcast is not personalized
investment advice from ApolloWell.
The views and strategiesdescribed may not be suitable
for everyone.
This podcast does not identifyall the risks, direct or
indirect or other considerationswhich might be material to you
when entering any financialtransaction.
Pass performance does notguarantee feature results, and
profitable results cannot beguaranteed.
We hope you realize that theinformation provided on Talking
(24:14):
Real Money is for informational,educational, and hopefully
enjoyable purposes only.
The podcast is not trying to getyou to buy or sell any financial
products or securities.
Instead, the program is providedas a public service by Appello
Wealth, a fee-only registeredinvestment advisor.
See Appello Wealth's ADB Part 2Aon our website for information
regarding Appello's fees andservices.
Apello Capital, LLC DBA ApelloWealth, is an investment
(24:35):
advisory firm registered withthe Securities and Exchange
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The firm only transacts businessin the states where it is
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Registration with the SEC or anystate securities authority does
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Apello does not provide tax orlegal advice, and nothing either
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Thanks for listening, and pleasevisit talkingrealmoney.com for
(24:57):
more information and importantdisclosure related to
performance of any specificindex or fund quoted in this
podcast.
You're gonna do a really great financial future.
Tom and Don are talking realmoney.
SPEAKER_00 (00:12):
Hi, welcome to Talking Real Money.
I'm Tom Cock.
You know, some of you write usand ask for a return of Roxy.
So, you know, popular demand, Ihave to accede to your wishes
because really, at the end ofthe day, it's all about you, not
about me.
So today, your your wish is ourcommand.
Roxy Butner, one of ouradvisors, joining us today.
(00:33):
We're going to talk about somequestions, some other topics
that have come up, but I willjust say it is good to see you.
SPEAKER_02 (00:39):
Good to see you on this beautiful sunny day.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
Yes, Seattle is uh looking glorious today with the
greens and the blues andwhatever that object up in the
sky is, which is a littleintimidating, but um try to work
around it.
And as we head into, well, we'reby the time this airs, we'll be
well into summer.
So I hope you all enjoy yoursummer too.
So we're gonna take somequestions here in a couple
minutes.
I'm also gonna uh ask Roxy aboutone that she did not get a
(01:03):
chance to prepare for.
But before we even do that, itis graduation season.
Yeah, I got one of those in myhouse, sadly.
Daughter's headed off to collegenext year, not too excited about
that.
But trying to be a, you know, bea good sport about the whole
thing.
But it does bring to mind adviceto young people.
And by the way, I think havingread these a couple of times,
this is advice for everybody.
(01:25):
But uh money moves for newgraduates, whether they be for
the most part, this would becollege graduates, right?
Because uh if people if you'reheading off to college, it's not
quite as apt.
But some ideas here, some thingsto think about and maybe share
with those in your life that aregraduating or just transitioning
from one sort of spot toanother.
(01:45):
This is from an art uh JillSchlesinger, who whose work we
greatly respect, Jill on Money.
I think she does a great job.
And she gave a couple tips.
I like these.
I thought I'd bring them up, butmaybe pop them here on Roxy too.
She would see what she says.
But uh number one, which I findfascinating, is pay attention to
spending.
Determine how much money isavailable to accelerate debt
(02:07):
payoff and what you can start tosave and invest.
In other words, well, firstbefore you do any of that, you
gotta know how much you'respending, right?
I mean, that's the that seems tobe that comes up in a lot of
adult conversations too.
SPEAKER_02 (02:18):
Yeah.
Being intentional about whereyour money's going and not just
kind of hiding from your bankaccount like we hear a lot of
people talk about.
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
Yeah, that happens a lot.
But this is a one that's moredisturbing.
And by the way, until you knowthat, you can't really have any
financial planning at allbecause you gotta figure that
out first.
But this one is disturbing.
It's sad for me to read that 60%of the class of 2026 will
graduate from college with astudent loan.
That seems high, but maybe it'snot.
Well, the recommendation here isif you're one of many who
(02:47):
borrowed from Uncle Sam, startby logging into studentaid.gov
and determine the amount ofmoney you owe, the interest
rates associated with the loan,and the payment terms.
I also didn't know that you gotsix months until after you
graduate to do.
Do you have any advice forpeople that uh have borrowed
money to get an education?
SPEAKER_02 (03:05):
Yeah, I mean, this conversation comes up all the
time with all sorts of debt,actually.
Aggressive payoff or investearly, and it really is, it
comes down to your cash flow.
So before getting into studentloan debt, first you want to
look at average salary price,average salaries for what you're
going to be earning straight outof college if you land a job
straight out of college, becausethat should help decipher how
(03:27):
much you should take on forstudent loans, first of all.
Um but once you're after youknow graduated and you're
working, it's a really matter oflooking at your cash flow and
the income that you have and theinterest rates on those loans to
decide whether you should beaggressively paying them off or
investing a little bit whilemaking the minimum payments,
that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00 (03:45):
Aaron Ross Powell And the whole program of not
having to pay them back that wasCOVID, that's all gone, right?
And everybody's had to startthat all up again.
SPEAKER_02 (03:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:52):
Those those little caveats that allowed people to
put this off for later.
Uh yeah, so not easy.
But brings me to number three.
Um setting up an emergencyreserve fund.
Now she recommends anywhere fromsix to twelve months of
expenses.
12 months would be a lot.
But um you should be doing that.
And then once they have thatmoney, where do they put it?
High yield savings count.
(04:13):
Okay, which are pretty easy tofind, right?
I mean, you can go to Bankrateor you could go to she mentioned
depositaccounts.com.
I don't know them, but Bankratehas all kinds of information
there.
So that is well up my list.
And then she says, contribute toa retirement account.
Now, she says, even if you havestudent loans, create the habit
of saving for retirement.
(04:34):
If your plan, if your job ratheroffers a retirement plan, an
employer-sponsored plan,contribute at least up to the
match if there is one.
Now, she doesn't say if there'snot one, should you be if you
have to pay people back, shouldyou be saving as well?
What's your advice on that one?
SPEAKER_02 (04:50):
I really think you have to look at the interest
rates of those loans.
If they're less than 5%, I thinkyou should be putting a small
amount towards your retirementaccounts.
The Roth particularly would begreat.
SPEAKER_00 (05:01):
Aaron Powell Yeah, lower income, Roth, great,
because you're going to get allthat tax-free savings.
You don't necessarily need thetax break today.
So but that's a balancing act.
So I'd like the advice, at leastgetting the free money.
If you're not getting the matchof any kind, it's trickier for
me, but uh but but it's worthconsidering.
And you and she's right.
Getting in the habit of saving,saving early, putting it away,
(05:23):
building that up for a longtime.
We know the number oneoverlooked aspect of investing
is uh is interest on interest,right?
Growth and growth cancompounding interest is huge.
Then she says, guard againstfraud, freeze and manage your
credit.
Um I don't know how many peopledo this.
I think I asked recently at ameeting, and people are like,
nope, I don't do that.
(05:43):
But it's I think.
I recently did.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (05:46):
Because my parents went through identity fraud.
And then all of a sudden I waslike, wow, why don't I freeze my
credit?
I'm not using it.
So I it seems unusual to giveadvice like this to graduates,
but why not?
It's easy to unfreeze if you goand apply for a loan, so might
as well do it.
SPEAKER_00 (06:01):
So you do it, and then if you excuse me, if you
have to borrow money, you canunfreeze it, et cetera, et
cetera.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, we're in the summermonths.
I think unfreezing thing makessense anyway.
So there you go.
All right.
Your questions are always at thecenter of our planning for the
show of discussion and uh tryingto figure out what to talk about
because these are uh topics thatyou want to know.
(06:21):
So and it's easy, by the way, toask us a question.
You can ask one on Don's show.
You got the ones recorded.
You can um type one in.
You just go totalkingrealmoney.com,
talkingrealmoney.com, and clickon ask a question.
Sometimes I may call you oremail you actually and say, do
you want to discuss it and havea live call about it?
But fine, we're happy just toanswer them as they are.
(06:43):
We'll get plenty of them and uhkeep them coming.
Roxy is going to take up a fewof those right now.
SPEAKER_02 (06:50):
Okay, the first one here is from Jeff in Del Rio,
Texas.
And the subject is is AVGEenough small cap value?
Hi, Tom and Don.
I wrote you a few months backabout liquidating$200,000 in
about 20 individual stocks whenI left Edward Jones.
I'm happy to report that besides$25,000, I put in SGOV, which is
(07:13):
a iShares zero to three monthtreasury ETS.
SPEAKER_00 (07:16):
Very short-term sort of cash type of investment, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (07:19):
For future taxes.
The rest has been investedsolely in AVGE at Schwab.
SPEAKER_00 (07:24):
Which is the Avantis Global Equity Fund.
One fund owns the whole world.
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (07:30):
As a big Paul Merriman fan as well and
believing in the factors, myquestion is if AVGE has a large
enough um wrong page here, smallcap value tilt to be effective.
Paul recommends 50% in smallcaps in most of his portfolios.
I know AVGV is another option,but don't want to avoid large
(07:54):
cap growth altogether.
For reference, my Roth IRA is40% total US, 30% total
international, and 30% small capvalue in AVUV.
And I don't even and I don'tknow if even that is enough
small cap value.
Am I just splitting hairs atthis point?
(08:14):
I wanted AVGE for itssimplicity, so adding AVUV or
AVDV kind of derails thepurpose.
Thanks for everything and all ofyour education.
SPEAKER_00 (08:24):
Yeah, this is this comes up.
Um a couple things to thinkabout here.
First of all, and I know Paulwell, as you know, he's a
friend, colleague, and a formerpartner.
So and I I know all the thingshe talks about.
And the number one, I think he,if he died tomorrow, he wants to
make sure the whole world knowsabout U.S.
small cap value and the powerthat it has, because as an asset
(08:45):
class, for about a hundredyears, it's made almost four
percent more per year than largecap growth.
Okay, that's a very importantreason to own it.
But it's a riskier asset class,it's a more volatile asset
class, and like any asset class,it can have long periods of
underperformance.
In fact, it tends to sort ofhave these little spurts, goes,
and then it sits there for along time.
(09:06):
And if you just were in largecap growth uh for the decade
before the last couple of years,you would have been done far
better than having all thatsmall cap value.
But here's something I want youto think about.
The folks at Avantis, these arepeople that uh have an academic
basing, right?
That's where they came from,that's their orientation.
Many of them used to work atDimensional, which is another
very fine firm, and they'vespent a lot of time trying to
(09:30):
put together the best portfoliothey think that is back tested
as well as it can be, that'sgoing to give you the best
return.
And in their opinion, the amountof AVUV, which is what they have
in A V G E, right, theunderlying asset class they own
is through that fund.
They believe those percentagesare correct.
(09:51):
I if Paul recommends 50%, Godbless him.
I think that's great.
That's higher than we would do.
And by the way, um I think we'remostly small cap value because
small cap growth does not havethe outperformance.
I personally, if it was my Roth,I'd just put an A V G E, take a
aspirin, and call me in themorning.
I think you'd be fine with that.
(10:11):
But what's your take on allthis?
SPEAKER_02 (10:12):
Yeah, I agree.
And this, because of our historywith Paul Merriman, it does come
up when we talk to folks, to behonest.
Um and it makes sense kind oflogically.
You you think let's just do alittle bit in everything and
kind of equal weight it, right?
Um but like Tom said, Avantis isnot only looking at returns, but
they are looking at therisk-adjusted return.
And that's a big factor herewhen you overweight so heavily
(10:34):
in small cap.
Uh it's the conversation ofshould we mirror the market with
some tilts to these factors, orshould we do an equal weighting
approach?
And uh we would argue that ifyou do an equal weighting
approach, it's sort of anargument that markets aren't as
efficient as you know, evidenceshows us that they are.
Um, because you're basicallysaying that the markets are
(10:55):
mispricing small and mid-cap,and so it's a little bit more of
a bet um as opposed to followingthe market.
So for all the reasons youmentioned, I totally agree.
I think I would stick with theyou know 20% or so that Avantis
puts of small cap value in theAVGE fund and not overcomplicate
things.
SPEAKER_00 (11:14):
Yeah, and I'm I have a chat with Paul coming up here
soon on a podcast.
So I will ask him about his uhwhy he has I didn't realize it's
50% in small.
That's yeah, that's asignificant amount.
And again, I I trust Avantis todo the right thing.
I think they're you make a verygood point.
It's not just how much you makethat counts, it's how much you
get to keep, right?
Because a risk-adjusted returnhas a lot to do with that.
(11:36):
But I will take that up.
I would take the one fund.
I I love what you said aboutsimplicity.
We know oftentimes when peopleget into these things and with
more than one fund and therebalancing gets to be tough and
it's counterintuitive.
And uh I'll give you an examplethis year where emerging markets
were up 35% last year, they'reup another 25% this year.
Do you want to be selling that?
(11:57):
I mean, oh, you want to run notreally because it's you want to
let those winners run.
So it's very difficult.
So, yeah, I trust their work andI like the aspect of making it
easy.
The portfolio is set, themoney's growing, and my take
would be in the in A V GE, overthe long haul, you can expect a
return probably better than justa regular global index fund,
(12:20):
again, because you're tiltingmore to small and to value.
But great question, and thankyou for listening to the show.
SPEAKER_02 (12:26):
Okay, all right.
What else we got here?
What else we have here?
This is from an anonymouslistener in Kansas City,
Missouri.
Subject is mortgage versuswithdrawal from IRA for a new
home.
The question is my husband and Iare 59 and 62 respectively,
(12:46):
retired and living full-time atour lake home.
I want to build a second homenext door to my son and
grandsons who live three hoursaway.
My net worth is roughly 4.2million, with 3 million of that
in my IRA.
My advisor is recommendinggetting a$700,000 mortgage
rather than withdrawing from ourIRA due to the immediate and
(13:09):
significant tax implications oftaking the money out all in one
year.
In addition, they caution wecould be losing the opportunity
to earn higher returns than thecurrent mortgage rates.
And when our advisor runs ourprobability of success for our
retirement plan, it comes outthe same probability if we take
a million dollar lump sum out ofthe IRA in order to net$700,000
(13:30):
for the mortgage or for thepayout, yep, or if we get a
mortgage.
In either scenario, we should beable to cover all our living
expenses and still have money tovacation, et cetera, and not run
out of money until our 90s.
Even though average returns overthe long run have historically
outpaced the current 6.3%mortgage rates, it seems to me
(13:51):
like we would be making amistake to get a mortgage rather
than pay cash.
What is your recommendation?
SPEAKER_00 (13:55):
Wow, that's a that's a tough one.
By the way, I'm going to correctyou mildly on your last
assumption here about the 6.3%mortgage rates and average
return.
Average investor return issomewhere between 5 and 6%.
So while the market has returnedsubstantially more than that,
the average investor has notmade that for a variety of
reasons.
Costs, trading, uh making baddecisions at the wrong time,
(14:18):
that kind of thing.
So I would never count on, well,I know I'm going to make more
than the 6.3.
By the way, it could go into adecade where it makes less,
right?
We've had pretty good run forstocks here for some time.
But at the end of the day, whatyou're talking about is taking a
million dollars out of thatqualified account.
And you're right, about a thirdof that, or maybe 30%, is going
to be handed right out to thegovernment.
(14:40):
Um rather than borrowing it.
I mean, here's the way I wouldlook at it.
You're looking at two differentthings.
To me, it's cash flow and thennet worth as a separate issue.
The cash flow, if you could payit, I'd rather see you borrow
the money at the 6%, pay thatmortgage over time.
And by the way, you couldalways, this is not irrevocable,
(15:02):
it's not binary, you can makethat change anywhere along the
way, and not pay that hugeamount in taxes and have all
that money locked up in thehome.
This is something we try to talkabout in retirement to people.
Having a paid-off home at onelevel feels great because
emotionally it's like, well,that's all paid for it.
I got nothing there, not nopayment, et cetera.
(15:23):
The downside of that is now, inyour case, a third of the money
that you had set aside in aqualified account is now tied up
in that home and you can't getaccess to it to do the
vacations, to take care ofyourself or whatever health care
things come up as you get older.
So in this case, I think Iprobably would be in favor of
(15:44):
keeping the liquidity, notpaying the big tax bill.
Sometimes, by the way, I worryadvisors tell you don't take the
money out of the account becausethey're going to get paid less
money if they have less moneythey're managing for you.
So sometimes there's an aspectof self-interest that concerns
me.
But in this case, I think I gotto go along with the advisor and
tell you to borrow that money,build the home, which is a
wonderful thing, by the way.
Um I live in a lake home too, soI just on a beautiful day like
(16:07):
it is today, I just I want toleave the office and go see the
money.
SPEAKER_02 (16:09):
How would your daughter feel if you build a
house right next to her futurehouse?
SPEAKER_00 (16:13):
I don't think she'd be any either of them would be
very excited about that.
But in this case, I think, yeah,I think I I would agree with him
that I would I would uh from acash flow standpoint, I think I
would borrow the money and uhand uh and do it that way rather
than taking out a milliondollars from my IRA.
What's your take?
SPEAKER_02 (16:30):
Aaron Powell I agree with that.
Yeah, I mean everything youmentioned, you know, he'll be in
the higher tax bracket over 30,probably into the 35 percent of
the five years.
SPEAKER_00 (16:38):
Yeah, that's the other one that's gonna be steep.
SPEAKER_02 (16:40):
Um so you're paying more in taxes, you're reducing
your liquidity.
That's the number one, it reallyis, because you just don't know
what comes up, and you don'tknow if all of those what-ifs
are even factored into your youmentioned you did the Monte
Carlo and you went through theplan, which is great, but have
you factored in long-term careand higher expenses and all of
that stuff?
The worst thing you'd want tohave is all your equity in your
(17:03):
home, and then you get to apoint where, God forbid, you
need to take a reverse mortgageor something like that to pay
for your long-term care.
I guess you could sell thehouse, but my suggestion would
be to maybe come to a compromiseand say, I understand, you know,
this emotionally, you don't wantto have debt, you don't want to
have a mortgage, nobody likes tohave that in retirement.
But you could take the mortgageand then maybe strategically
(17:27):
each year fill up the 24%bracket and make some extra
payments.
SPEAKER_00 (17:31):
I like that.
So what you're saying is uhevery year look at how much
money you could still take outand not bust the bracket, stay
in the 24, take that out, paythe mortgage down, because then
you're the you're you're sort ofsolving for the issue that you
said earlier about not being indebt.
That's good.
I like that.
SPEAKER_02 (17:46):
It's a bit of a compromise.
You might pay it off a littlebit earlier and um allows you to
not pay the 35, 32 percentbracket.
SPEAKER_00 (17:54):
Very, very uh very creative of you.
That's good.
So uh we wish you well.
How exciting to build something.
Well, as you said, maybe in mylife it might be exciting.
There's there's a house nextdoor where they just on the lake
I live in, about half of thepeople live there full time.
It's a very small number.
So the people on both sides ofus are basically never there.
So recently, the one house,there was all this cleaning, all
(18:16):
this commotion next door, and Ithought, ah, they must be
getting ready to sell it.
And then I start thinking likethis, these folks like, should I
buy that and put my you know, mykids have a place?
Oh, nah, they all live 20minutes away, so they don't
really need that.
SPEAKER_02 (18:29):
They're coming back for the summer, huh?
SPEAKER_00 (18:30):
Yeah, exactly.
So it turned out it wasn't forsale.
So anyway, good for you.
I think that's a great idea.
We got uh one more we cansqueeze in here?
No?
SPEAKER_02 (18:37):
I think we would don't have another one.
SPEAKER_00 (18:39):
Okay, so I got a question for you.
Um because this comes up andit's coming up fairly
frequently, although by the timethis airs, it may be uh past
due.
But the SpaceX IPO, amongothers, which is going to be I I
believe the largest, it's gonnabe if it hasn't already been
about$75 billion, the valuationof the company somewhere between
(19:00):
one and a half and two trilliondollars.
So people get I knew people getworked up about this a long time
ago.
I said this is gonna be a bigdeal.
And SpaceX, in an unusual move,is making the shares directly at
IPO available to the public.
Now I don't know how that works.
But we've already had peoplecalling us, clients, others
saying, hey, how do I get in onthis really hot IPO?
And how do they get in on thisreally hot IPO, Roxy?
SPEAKER_02 (19:23):
Well, I just listened to something actually
about this the other day, andthey were saying, you know,
people are all up in a frenzyabout this, and everybody wants
in.
Um they did change, if correctme if I'm wrong, recently there
were some changes to 401regulations before this IPO
comes out, which actually willmean that it'll allow this new
IPO to become a part of themutual funds in the 401k.
SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
Oh, they they they are going to be joining indexes
very quickly.
Yeah.
Yes, that's true.
SPEAKER_02 (19:51):
So you may not need to physically go and do
anything.
You might actually already getexposure pretty quickly.
Um but I did have a client whowants to be a part of this.
And I mean, buying anyindividual stock, uh it's it's
placing a bet.
Also, it's like definitelyfamiliarity bias, right?
We all are familiar with thenews and it's all over the
(20:12):
internet.
Um that those alone are notgreat reasons to go out and buy
anything.
SPEAKER_00 (20:17):
Dimensional studies have found that IPOs
underperform for the first year.
So there's there's a lot ofexamples of a first day pop, and
then the pop goes a weasel afterthat, right?
So those are good reasons.
Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
SPEAKER_02 (20:29):
So I mean uh if a client came to me and said, I
want in on this, I would say,let's look at how much is
reasonable to take, a smallportion of your portfolio, and
I'd hand it over to them, tellthem to go open up a play
account.
SPEAKER_00 (20:42):
Like a that's the right word, too, because that's
what you're doing.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_02 (20:46):
Yeah.
And go ahead and and takeadvantage of it if you want, you
know, but not over uh weightyourself towards something like
that.
It's an interesting company.
I mean, people don't realizeit's made up of what is it,
Starlink, which I think has donereally well.
SPEAKER_00 (21:00):
That's the thick only place I think they make
money.
The space trips and the rest ofit are really not productive,
but the idea of providinginternet to people all over the
world has worked.
SPEAKER_02 (21:07):
Aaron Powell And now most recently the XAI, which I
guess is their kind of movementtowards AI, and that has had a
massive loss in 2025, I thinkover five billion dollars or
something.
So um it'll be interesting tosee what plays out.
I think people are more making abet on maybe Elon and the kind
of the hype that goes around it,like with any major IPO.
SPEAKER_00 (21:29):
Yeah, I think you make a very good point, is the
fact that uh this stock will bein if you're an index investor,
you're gonna own it anywaypretty soon.
They're gonna move it into thesemajor indexes.
We won't, because the companiesthat we work with specifically
do not invest in IPOs, I thinkfor at least a year.
So we won't have exposure tothis for a long time.
But again, uh regular uh VT orVT SACs or those are going to be
(21:54):
adding them, the S P 500, ofcourse, because it will be, I
think, the sixth or seventhlargest company in the index
right off the bat with thatmarket capitalization.
So good advice, Roxy.
As always, great advice.
You got any fun plans for thesummer you can share with our
listeners?
People want to know what you'redoing.
SPEAKER_02 (22:10):
My best friend is getting married 4th of July.
SPEAKER_00 (22:12):
Well, that's exciting.
SPEAKER_02 (22:14):
And we also have a coworker who's giving birth
potentially has a due date on4th of July.
SPEAKER_00 (22:18):
So I didn't know that was the 4th of July.
Wow.
Independence day, no longerindependent.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (22:22):
So that's so just some, you know, wedding plans.
We just went on a littlebachelorette trip in Miami,
which was awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (22:28):
We saw the Insta, yeah, of course.
Checking all the pictures out.
SPEAKER_02 (22:31):
So besides that, um, you know, just lots of weddings
and stuff like that.
Good for you.
Enjoying the summer in Seattle.
SPEAKER_00 (22:37):
Well, summer in Seattle, that's the this is our
time to shine.
So somebody, somebody ourheadquarters in Connecticut just
asked me the other day ifthey're if I was excited.
I said, summer is this isSeattle's and my place on the
lake and all that stuff, I thisis this is this is the moment.
So you can't.
Don't rub it in, Tom.
Don't rub it in.
I'm rubbing it in every moment Iget.
I'm gonna let it go.
Hey, you got questions?
(22:58):
We'll we'll drag Roxy back onhere again in the next few
weeks, so go totalkingrealmoney.com, click on
ask a question.
If you want some help fromsomebody like Roxy, or
specifically, just go there andsay Meet an advisor.
It's right on the website, anduh.
We'll also answer some of yourquestions, give you a little
review of your overallsituation.
We do that free, and uh uh we'reglad to help any way we can.
(23:21):
Roxy, thanks again for takingtime.
I know you're busy.
SPEAKER_02 (23:23):
My pleasure.
SPEAKER_00 (23:24):
It's always great to talk to you.
It's always great to talk toyou, and you know we'll be
talking all the time, justaround here talking real money.
SPEAKER_01 (23:32):
The opinions and views expressed on this podcast
were current on the daterecorded.
Opinions, estimates, forecasts,and statements of financial
market trends that are based oncurrent market conditions
constitute our judgment and oursubjects change without notice,
including any forward-lookingestimates or statements which
are based on certainexpectations and assumptions.
Although information andopinions given have been
obtained from or based onsources believed to be reliable,
no warranty or representation ismade as to their correctness,
(23:52):
completeness, or accuracy.
Information presented on thepodcast is not personalized
investment advice from ApolloWell.
The views and strategiesdescribed may not be suitable
for everyone.
This podcast does not identifyall the risks, direct or
indirect or other considerationswhich might be material to you
when entering any financialtransaction.
Pass performance does notguarantee feature results, and
profitable results cannot beguaranteed.
We hope you realize that theinformation provided on Talking
(24:14):
Real Money is for informational,educational, and hopefully
enjoyable purposes only.
The podcast is not trying to getyou to buy or sell any financial
products or securities.
Instead, the program is providedas a public service by Appello
Wealth, a fee-only registeredinvestment advisor.
See Appello Wealth's ADB Part 2Aon our website for information
regarding Appello's fees andservices.
Apello Capital, LLC DBA ApelloWealth, is an investment
(24:35):
advisory firm registered withthe Securities and Exchange
Commission.
The firm only transacts businessin the states where it is
properly registered or excludedor exempt from registration
requirements.
Registration with the SEC or anystate securities authority does
not imply a certain level ofskill or training.
Apello does not provide tax orlegal advice, and nothing either
stated or implied here should beinferred as providing such
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Thanks for listening, and pleasevisit talkingrealmoney.com for
(24:57):
more information and importantdisclosure related to
performance of any specificindex or fund quoted in this
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