June 23, 2022 • 45 mins
L.S.D. L.S.D. L.S.D.
We all want L.S.D. (chanted the CIA in the 1950's)
Also prostitutes and torture.
We all want L.S.D. (chanted the CIA in the 1950's)
Also prostitutes and torture.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm a screamer the Alphabet Boys cast. I'm your host.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Ben Malik, adjusting his chair.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Adjusting my chair for inflation, and joined again by the
ever beautiful, ever responsive. I don't know why I said, I.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Was about to say response responsive.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
It's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I think you're like pausing really long to find adjectives
to describe me, and it's a little alarming.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
It wasn't that long. It's fine.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
We live in a happy marriage. We promise.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
We are actually very very happily married.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
So happy. We both have sinus infections just a little bit.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
But you know what, it's we're doing important work and
if we don't get this information to the public seventy
two years late, then what are we even doing. So
we're fighting through it for you, and we don't have
any well money to not do this.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
So yeah, I would like to note, in rebellion of
our upbringing, we're doing the Antichrist work.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yes. Also, we didn't say your name, it's Laura. Yeah.
Is so I did a dramatic reading last time and
it went over real well. And by went over real well,
I mean that.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
We got a lot of compliments on it. We did
yelled at you over it.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
You did, and you said I did a good job.
So now I'm making Laura do the dramatic reading to
open this episode, to really put the pressure on her.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I want it noted that I've had to read this
three times now because someone, the director over there, did
it like my notes.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It wasn't your notes. You just used a word that
wasn't the right word that I wrote down, and I
got real, real insecure about it. Yeah you did all right.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Fourth time's the charm. Dramatic reading.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Oh, we're making this su We're showing the sausage over here,
sausage making. We're showing how the sausage is made. New podcast,
new podcast, idea, show me your sausage.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
No, no, I don't have tender anymore for a reason.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Okay, okay, we're happily married, really, guys.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Dramatic reading. A chemist in his lab. Nothing special about
the lab, just a normal lab. Think of your high
school chemistry class. Glass speakers, bunsen burners, and a man
in a white lab coat, sitting in a high counter,
carefully notating his results of the day. No smell, no color,
he writes in his notes, carefully kept in his brown
(02:59):
leather on journal. He sighs. No helpful reaction from the
test subjects beyond a perceived heightened sense of nerves. He
taps his pen against the paper, a bad habit he
picked up in finishing school. He was always admonished for
having such messy notes. Looking up at the clock, he
sees it's time to head home. Good, he thinks to himself,
I was beginning to feel the walls closing in on
(03:21):
me today. Packing away his notes into his satchel, he
heads outside. It's wore a very nice day. His work
on finding a blood product stimulant could wait for a
clear head tomorrow. After all, he was working through an
extremely complex compound full of perplexing molecules that seemed to
come to nothing when synthesized individually. Perhaps we will not
(03:42):
find anything of use in the mold air got After all,
he had already produced twenty five distinct molecules from the compound,
the last in that line. He had just finished making
notes on lysergic acid Diethelamide twenty five had looked so
promising when grapped on paper, but had no meta perceived
effects on his lab mice. Tomorrow will bring a better day,
(04:04):
No reason to get frustrated. Five years of frustration and
disappointment later, the chemist holds his head in his hands,
rubbing his eyes with the heel of his palms. Sitting back,
he pulls out one of his older leather bound notebooks
and thumbs through it. Looking back on these early tests
so much promise, he thought I must have missed something.
He reaches one of his favorites, bysergic acid dimdimid twenty five.
(04:28):
He stops looking at its structure. He knew that it
must interact somehow with the brain. It was too like
many of the other chemicals found in the body to
not find once more. I will try you. Maybe the
fault is mine. He carefully goes through the motions of
isolating the molecule from the air got compound. As he
was measuring out the final dosage to store for the
testing the next day, he spilled a bit on his hand,
(04:50):
not thinking much of it. It was a non reactive
chemical after all. He finished his tasks and made a
few notes on procedure in his notebooks, and headed out
to bicycle home. He began to feel odd when he
made it home. He felt out of sorts, but not
in a bad way. I must be overtired, he thought
as he sat back on his couch, and the first
acid trip in history started in earnest colors. He had
(05:12):
never dreamed of repeating geometric patterns that he could manipulate
and control with his thought. He could see the radio
waves coming into his receiver three days later, and he
made up his mind he would dose himself with the
tiny amount of LSD to see what the effects would be.
He needed to confirm that it was the chemical and
not his mind. Breaking down, he measures out two hundred
and fifty microgram dose. He drank the clear liquid and waited.
(05:36):
This was the beginning of the most horror and ecstasy
filled afternoon of his life. He felt sick, his heart racing,
and unable to focus. He decides he needs to go home.
Stopping by his aid's desk, he asks for them to
call the doctor to meet him at his home, that
he had ingested a chemical and it was not reacting well. Somehow,
this slight, unassuming man bicycled home while entering a powerful
(05:59):
LSD ex experience, because, unknown to him, two hundred and
fifty micrograms is about ten times a dosage that would
send a full grown man into a trip that would
span an entire hippie jam band festival. Thinking he had
induced irreversible psychosis, he entered his home covered in sweat,
breathing heavily, and once again seeing patterns and colors he
(06:19):
could not seem to control. The doctor arrived as the
chemist was peeking on his trip. The doctor reassured him
everything looked normal to him, blood pressure normal, no fever.
The only physiological symptom he had was his pupils were
dilated wide open. When he heard these simple reassuring words,
it washed away all the worry and anxiety. Like a
fever breaking. He felt light, so light he realized he
(06:41):
was outside of his body, his corporal form laying on
the couch, his spirit hovering over it. He looked at
his body. Am I dead? If I am, it's quite pleasant.
His ego death was short lived. He re entered his body,
and a great calm descended over him, a feeling that
everything would be okay, the post psychedel like bliss of
ego death. You found me, he muttered under his breath.
(07:03):
The doctor, having no idea what had just happened, looked puzzled.
Oh no, not you. The chemical found me. The chemist said,
Hoffman had found one of the most powerful psychedelic chemicals
known to man. LSD had been discovered, and it was
set to change the world, one CIA agent at a time. Yeah,
finally fucking did it. Yeah, yeah, Jesus Christ, who one take?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
By the way, guys, that was all one want to try.
So that was a little bit just kind of background
of how LSD was discovered. Because most compounds that we
are useful to us a scientist licked or spilled on himself.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
It reminds me of a story from high school actually,
and it was like I didn't personally experience nor did
my teacher personally experience this, but she, like a teacher
down the hall, experienced this a couple years prior to
when I was there. And essentially, like this kid was
fiddling with something in class and she thought he was
passing notes, so she took up the notes, not knowing
(08:11):
that the entire paper was dosed with LSD and like
began tripping balls while teaching.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Algebra, which would be awesome.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
And like was thinking she was having a stroke and
did not know, and like the students had to go
get the administration for help. And of course this was
all hush hush, but like, I feel like algebra is
one of the.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Worst ways to trip ball, especially if you've never tripped
anything before, like disease.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
I see the equation's balancing.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
I don't, yeah, like I can't do algebra sober on
adderall So I don't want to know what it's like
just to get accidentally dosed with LSD. Also, that sounds
like an email chain that I would have gotten in
two thousand and.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Four of like the dangers of passing notes.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
And last not only like and there was that when
she came out from the grocery store there was a
piece of paper taped on her back windshield, and when
she got out and touched it, it was drugged with LSD.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Not gonna lie that actually did happen, not the LSD part,
but like, there was a piece of paper taped on
my windshield and I totally waited like three miles and
pulled over in a CBS parking lot. It was a
parking ticket, but.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I had to be sure back when you got those
good physical parking tickets. So Hoffman is like convinced this
is the future of medicine. Of course, I mean in
a lot, like for fifteen years. It was heavily studied
in the scientific community and had showed a lot of promise.
But we're going to see why it never went anywhere.
(09:42):
Really because unfortunately the CIA, doctor Gottlieb and George White
were coming and not just inside prostitutes.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Are outside prostitutes.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Right on around in. It really didn't matter, but for
Hoffman's miracle drug, they needed it, which meant the easiest
way to ensure only that they had it was to
make it illegal and then buy all of it. And
a quick rehash of why mk ultra was started and
allowed pretty much complete immunity to do anything they could
(10:13):
think of to try to form a repeatable and consistent
process of mind control, brainwashing, and in general just getting
to play evil scientists.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I think you mean they couldn't regulate the drug.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yes, they wanted to make sure no one else could
get it because they were convinced.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
So no, I'm being sarcastic. Oh like what they tell
all your autism showing and it's cute.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Autistic.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Oh yeah, you hate it when I do that a lot.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Well, I'm not like diagnosed autistic. I just have a
lot of the symptoms.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
It's expensive getting diagnosed. Yes, anyways, anyways, No, what I
mean is like they had to tell the public they
couldn't regulate it, which is why it was legal. Ah,
there we go, there we go.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
That was that was a bridge too far for me,
A deep dive. Yeah. So the reason that they justify
this is there were POWs coming back from both World
War two and the war in Korea changed. There were
taped confessions of gis admitting to war crimes that they
never committed, and them denouncing the United States and its
(11:24):
role in the war in those countries just as agents,
Just as any agents caught by the USSR would come
back completely broken and changed men. It also seemed that
American gis were much more susceptible to whatever the enemy
was doing to them. The rate of breaking by American
POWs was higher than Great Britain, the French, and much
(11:47):
much higher than the Germans or Russians. The Koreans and
Japanese and Vietnamese. They didn't break. They just usually killed themselves.
If they were taken prisoner, they just didn't say anything.
They they were not those of ones that broke. I
won't go into much detail why this is just suffice
(12:07):
to say that Americans are from birth trained to be
hyper independent and to think of their own self interests
above a collectives, and that translates into them breaking.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Faster, but yet wanting to be part of a collective
is entitlement.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yes, well that's communism and apparently makes that are soldiers.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Or they can regulate their usage of soldiers.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Right, And it's all like if you look back into
World War two, like the reason Japanese soldiers killed themselves
in mass numbers and the Japanese civilians killed themselves is
their religion was Shintoism, which was essentially the worship of
their Japanese nests like the emperor was to be served
(12:54):
with your entirely.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Worship of their collective sense of self.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yes, the worship of Japanese nationalism. Yes, pretty much like
the state above all, and that kind of came. We
won't go into that. That's way more history than anyone
wants to hear. But to those in command at the time,
they decided that it was fucking impossible and the only
(13:19):
way US troops were breaking so fast was because they
were being drugged and brainwashed not to remember it then
being reprogrammed. While the brainwashing part was true, there were
no drugs involved. Just get a good old social isolation
and torture.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Okay, So were they brainwashing them to have like were
they brainwashing them to erase what happened, but then saying
they were brainwashed to be like, oh, that didn't really happen,
so like the because that feels really convoluted.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
So the brainwashing was essentially like the idea of brainwashing,
which has a bunch of different meanings. But what the
talking about it here is they want to reduce a
person to having no memories like blank slate, right, yeah,
and then programming in what they want and then allowing
(14:15):
some of the programming to come back from their former lives.
And so that's kind of what mk Ultra was about,
was finding out how they could do this.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
So it's like when you have to wipe my computer
hard drive because I kill it with SIMS, and then
I try to bring SIMS back in a lighter form. Yeah, yeah,
it's like it's like or you're just reinstalling like my
basic softwares that died in the process of being destroyed
by SIMS.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Right, we're wiping everything off your operating system, like we
don't want you to forget how to talk and eat
and take a piss or whatever. But we want you
to forget. We want you to be so in the moment,
if I ask you who the president is, you're like,
I don't know, but this table is smooth. Like that's
the goal, and then you kind of put in the
programming you want and then let them come out of
(15:03):
the psychosis. Because the idea is, if we give you
the drug or we put you in social isolation, we
are going to cause mental illness and we're going to
open your brain up to like be vulnerable, to imperson it,
to be impressed upon. It was a whole like miscongruency
of scientific theories that were never proven.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Actually actually actually it's not that it was never proven.
I do have a little anecdotal bit about that.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah, so from.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
What I remember from Abnormal Psychology, they actually referenced that
process to understanding amnesia in patients who had gone through
severe PTSD and like, don't look at me, like I'm like,
you're about to get there. No, no, you did the eyebrow.
But that's how they figured out that like when amnesia happened,
(16:00):
that it's not like induced by someone else, but like
induced by PTSD, your mental illness or whatever. That it's
the brain's coping mechanism of survival. Like if we just
don't remember anything, we can keep on living. Yeah, and
that is what spawned my idea or my theory that
the brain is actually an alien entity trying to perfect
(16:22):
its host.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
I mean, we got lots of different things inside of
us telling us what to do, and we don't even
know it. And they do kind of do that a
little bit of where they like induce PTSD. That's later,
that's other MK ultra stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
We're just no, I just mean like psychologists after this
like reference to this process. Yeah, maybe that's what's happening.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Interesting, Yeah, because that wasn't until like the fourth or
fifth DM whatever it's called.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
No, it happened. It was they started figuring out in
the eighties, the eighties. Yeah, so that would be DSM three.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
DSM three, Okay, back on to track.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
We stayed on track.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
It was a very valuable anecdote. So anyway, that didn't
stop the US from completely believing in a drug that
could wipe a person clean. Plus, there was a rumor
that the USSR had bought a bunch of LSD from
Sendos which was the company that Hoffman was working for
producing the drug and was actively using it to break
the enemies of the USSR. Now, it couldn't be that
(17:20):
Sendos needed a reason to have a bunch of this drug,
you know, to sell it to somebody, and heard that
the CIA was looking for a drug that could do this,
and then they started a rumor saying they were going
to sell a bunch of or the USSR was trying
to buy a bunch of it from them. Couldn't be that.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
It was that, you know, speaking of buying things to
influence our mental state. I think there's probably some goods
and services that would also like to do that.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
But that's capitalism, and capitalism is always good. It doesn't
affect me at all.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
It's the Lord's worth.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
It only makes me so happy. Enjoy these ads and
services you got eyes, Oh those ads, girthy long ads.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
I want everyone to know. That's like a level four
compared to like reality.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Oh man, I can scream along with the rest of them.
I'm a screamer. So anyway, Hoffman was still working for
Sandals and they're the only manufacturer of LSD at the time,
and they do eventually tell the us like, Okay, we
(18:38):
haven't sold any LSC to the USSR. Yeah, And they
also kind of doubted that, like it was being used
in interrogations because just the way Haffman describe it, you
take it, it's great, and then you feel better about
your life. So it kind of has an anti anxiety effect,
which would probably not be great when you're trying to interrogate.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
So, I mean, I've always felt I can't say i've
always felt because I want to be the interrogator during
the zombie apocalypse. But sometimes when you give the carrot
instead of the step, people are more likely to think
you have more integrity and you know, be a little
bit more open with their words.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, not to jump ahead too much, but like the
CI figured out, like I don't know in the eighties
or nineties, if you just like tell the agents like, hey,
we'll give you an ass ton of money and a
new identity and no one will ever find you. Usually
they're like, oh cool, money talks. Yeah, here's all my information.
(19:43):
Get my kids out. Anyway. Also, the whole like ego
death thing probably not great for integrity interrogating people.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, it would be it
totally would be because like then you're no longer attached
to this dimension, so who the fuck cares what happens?
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I could see that, stee. But there's also the like,
would you like, my spirit is absent my body right now,
I don't care what you do.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
To it, Like that is ego death, Like it's the
death of the physical. So yeah, so you would be like.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I mean that is
not what they found. It didn't really work.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Shows how much acid I've done.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
I was. There is a point at which I say
that I've never done acid, and I don't really understand
why you would it. See, Okay, for me, it's like
ten hours of hallucinating seems way too much. And maybe
it's my capitalist upbringing, but it's cooler. Cousin DMT always
(20:41):
seemed better because you do it and like fifteen minutes
you go up, you talk to the fabric of space
and time, you come back down and you're ready to
go to work. Like it just seems more efficient to me.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
See as our local schizophrenic, I would say ten I've
I've experienced days days of hallucinating of various forms and
all I can say, is your brain gets tired of it,
Like there's a there's a little voice inside your head
that's like, okay, pull it together, Laura, Like you know this,
you know, you know this isn't real. You've been without
(21:14):
this before. But then there's the other part of your
brain that's like, I don't know, sounds like someone's singing
in my kitchen. Maybe I should go harmonize with them.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, I could, I could. I could say it. I
felt that well drunk, Like there's definitely been times when
I'm just like, I'm really tired of being drunk. I
would like to not be drunk anymore.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I've seen you reach that point I just lay down.
You've also seen me reach that hallucinatory point I have.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
It was scary. So, but the CIA had heard there's
a powerful new hallucinogen out there, and they needed it
like a diabetic needs cake, which is both by a
lot and also it was going to be real bad
for them. So Sandos agreed to sell them an undisclosed
but undoubtedly massive amount of LSD. And this is how
(22:00):
that drug ends up all over CIA headquarters and training grounds,
and it kind of becomes commonplace for agents to dose
each other and try to interrogate them each other.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
That is like a hallucinogenic circle jerk. Right.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
All was like an envision remember the old the old cartoon.
It was always they were always shorts on Nickelodeon's Spy
Versus Spy. Yes, that's all I see, except they're just
dosing each other with LSD and then tripping. There were
many accounts of like fingernis. There are various accounts of
agents being the like being the person being interrogated in
(22:38):
the room and being like starting to get the acid
trip and be like fuck, okay, here we go, and
then watching as their interrogator, who has also been drugged
without their knowledge, being like, shit, we're both drug Like
I thought, well, this is six hours wasted.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
You know what, I need to peel an orange and
you are the orange.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Right, I'm gonna find it. So when this didn't really work,
they decided it needed to start to be random. So
imagine it's nineteen fifty four. You're a brand new CIA
agent sitting in your lunch room.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
There's no ethics in studying and research.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Eating a sandwich and drinking your milk like a good boy.
Suddenly you don't feel right, you got dosed again. Your
sandwich looks at you and tells you m You say back,
I bet it's in my milk this time. You finish
your milk and go to your office to ride this
one out. It has gotten so bad that you have
a little couch in there just for riding out trips.
Your secretary sees your dilated pupils as you walk in
(23:37):
size and says, should I let your wife know? You're
working late? Again? Yeah? Yeah, this feels like an all nighter.
You go into your office, close and lock the door.
You're not feeling like being questioned well high again. You
lay on your couch and you turn on your radio
to help keep you grounded, and you just lean into it.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Can I just say that secretaries are the real MVP
of like everything? Absolutely, Like, I guess do I need
to call your wife again? Like just the same shit,
different day. I can now see why my grandmother wanted
to be a secretary, like she had the personality for it. Yeah,
and they are the real, the real MVPs of every
(24:17):
single situation.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Oh yeah, they're keeping everything together while these dudes just
run around and dose each other with drugs.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
I would also like to let Jonathan, my FBI agent,
know that, I, of course would not ever do drugs
or DMT or I don't know how I would know
how DMT would react or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
I mean, we totally watched to have a nice trip.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah, that's how I got all of that information about talking.
Yeah to ethereal, there's.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Enough documentaries out there about it.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, I don't I don't know how to make it anyway.
George White was approached by his old friend gott Lieb
after the war and invited him to work with him
at the newly CIA. This was George's wet dream come true.
What fun he gets to play secret agent while his
second wife sets up their home in California. To put
it out there, this home was a drug and swinger central,
(25:13):
literally a trap house for CIA agents or anybody that
came through. It was very normal to get dosed with
LSD for the Orgies without your consent.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Do you think they like intentionally had random things around
the house to like kind of promote the trip, like
to see if they'd respond to like certain pictures and shit.
There are kind of like how Carrie Fisher describes her home,
but a little bit more subtle.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yes, So there is a lot of accounts of George
White's personal life in his home because a lot of
times those were FBI agents that got invited because he
just was he didn't care.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
And nothing about this man has said otherwise.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
No, he's never had a He has never had a
what do you call it? A consequence in his life
for doing anything? So why not drug FBI agents that
you bring to your house so you can fuck them?
But you but his it is explained that the front
part of his house is very normal looking, but when
(26:18):
you went into the back of the house, which there
was only one door to get into, it was essentially
just erotic art and a pillow pit and an indoor pool, which,
by the.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Way, sounds about to say goals also on a freaking like.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I mean, I don't think he makes a lot of money.
I don't know what agents were making back then, but
he was stealing a lot of money from the CIA.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
So there's yeah, you drag them up, you take their money.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yes, it's mostly just well I'm actually going to get
to that in a minute. But his new job would
take him away from Californi and his Swinger Central and
to New York City. Two apartments in New York City
to be exact, both connected by a doorway. Gottlieb was
frustrated by the results from his normal agents using LSD,
(27:13):
and so he decided that this needed to be done
on every type of person, randomly when they were least
expecting it.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Can I just say this dude likes stores.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
He loves stores. They're the way.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
One door, one door. But here hear me out, hear
me out, one door.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
This is a man that shot his initials into the
crown molding of his apartment.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I mean, you got to do something.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
And then it became a habit where he would just
do it at wherever he was, Like at the restaurant,
pull out your silence nine mil and start tapping your initials.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I'm getting some real deep OCD vibes here, maybe some ADHD.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
The man was not None of these people were not
in a psychosis. Now he wanted to do it over
a wider range so he could get a more statist,
stickly pure sample to show how great this new drug
was and his system of breaking people, and a lot
of it had to do if you wanted to speed
up the breaking process of somebody, because like you can
(28:13):
break someone if you have enough time. Oh yeah, everyone
breaks eventually. Oh yeah, but he won aid unless your job,
unless you were a Shinto Japanese person, those people didn't
break for the most part. You give someone, you give
an experienced agent six months, you'll break somebody, which is
how the Germans and the Russians did it. Like the
Russians got all of their information on how to break
(28:36):
people from the German scientists and the people that they
brought over after World War Two.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Breaking people on the backs of giants exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
And the Americans got a lot of their stuff from
the Japanese the Ohn Goodness Operation or Unit seven oh two,
which was the experimental medic medical unit in Japan. And
by experimenting in medical I mean they tried to they
tried to genetically engineer flees to only give Korean people
(29:07):
the plague or train them.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
That sounds like a weird dream I've.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Had, and then drop clea bombs of.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah, yeah, this totally falls in line with like some
weird ass stream I'd have.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah. And they would also do stuff like freeze like
this is without any anesthesia or anything, like freeze someone's
arm and then try to unfreeze it and see what happens,
or just you know, break it off. Sounds about right
and be like, oh, that's interesting, Like they were just
it was horrific experimentation and they all got off by
(29:42):
the way, of course did they ended up actually one
of them, the lead guy in it, I believe, worked
at like Harvard for years. We'll do some episodes on
that one day. So he wants to be able to
wipe the memory of subjects, reprogram them to do tasks
they weren't even knowing they were doing. It's pretty much
(30:04):
the Mancherian candidate. So he turns to his friend George White,
who he already knew was morally wide open to drugging
people without their consent. But George wants complete control over
the operation, and he wants it to be separate from
MK Ultra because that's the only way he can keep
it separate and under his.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Control, separate and more equal yees.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
And he wanted to only report to doctor Gottlieb, and
doctor gottlie was like, yeah, sure, cool, whatever, I want
to drug people, you want to drug people. Let's drug people.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Twins E's twins E. Could we just become best friends? Oh?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
My god, there's so much room in these apartments for activities.
My god, so that the apartments just gonna briefly give
you a word salad, a delicious word salad about these apartments.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Toss that vocabulary.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Oh, so George decides that he is going to It's okay,
it's the fifties. Who would be like, okay, it's not
weird for this person to be bringing women in here
at all hours of the night, all the time to
a normal person. Artists. Oh god, so George poses as
(31:22):
an artist from the world.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Why you harp on my bohemian people?
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yep, love is love.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Here's a monisty.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
And so he's posing as a successful artist. And he
essentially had a trap apartment built filled with the latest
and modern amenities, including a console television and a high
fi surround a high fi sound system.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
I really want to know who his whole materior designer was.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Oh, I have a name, but I wasn't going to
say his name. But this is how we know.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Does he like design all of his homes?
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Yes, okay, it's like he brings the guy out who
designed his home.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
This is this is his trap supplier, right, he's the
guy he trusts, because if you're going to yeah, if
you're gonna.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Have this, isn't inconspicuous designs at all.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Right, It's not like I have two hundred and fifty
thousand dollars in CIA black money to pay this person,
which he does. And he wanted the space of the
trap apartment to be very feminine in feeling so very
mod very safe, very sent wi motherly. Even so, he
(32:34):
puts a bunch of erotic art on the walls, and
he has them as originals, like he has artists paint
original erotic art to his taste.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
These artists are like, oh my god, I'm finally making
it right.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
It probably got drugged, it's.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Shut into a river, or they thought they were given
LSD and then made the paintings.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, it's entirely true. Now I can't blame him at
this point. If I had two hundred fifty K in
nineteen fifty three and was like, make a trap house,
I would get some ironic hard.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
I like, a you'd finally get your little conversation pit
that you've been wanting forever.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
I fucking would with the weird nineteen fifties fireplace right
in the middle of it.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
That mid century caused cosmic feel Yes.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
So speaking of mid century cosmic feels, if you've been
feeling not cosmic and not mid century, maybe you should
try buying items, items that will be given up for
on these ads. Also, for some reason, a local country
radio station has been advertising on our shit ninety.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Four and oh oh the ball really.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yes, it's still on the fucking air, of course it is.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
It won't go. It's the radio cockroach. It's not going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
They found me. I hate country music and they're fucking
advertising on my channel.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I like you the bull.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
It's okay, I am, unless you're playing Dolly part and
it's not country and I don't like it. So enjoy
some ads. Don't listen to country music. I'm completely satisfied
with those commercials.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Would you get some dopamine.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
All the way inside.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
The button routin give me armed?
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Oh Amazon, you delicious fairy. Also, just to let you
guys know, we have ingested not LSD, but my personal
favorite drug, afron.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
We had to take some nasal spray.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah, some of us get through. Some of us were
a little snotty, and by some of us, I mean
both of us.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
You're not the one holding a towel in your lap
to blow your nose.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
I still don't understand your towel and blowing.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
I love it. It's comforting. It's so comforting.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
I don't question it. I just don't underst stand.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
It's fine. It's part of our weird mysteries of our marriage.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
It's very true. So through his connections to the CDCD
Dirty Underground, George got introduced to a pimp that had
a trustworthy cadre of high priced prostitutes that could do
what needed doing. The only problem the CIA only issues
payment in checks. That's for accounting reasons.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
As a bookkeeper, right, that makes me laugh, And the
prostitutes are fairly adverse to getting paid in checks that
say the federal government. I wonder why that could be.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Right, So White and Gottlieb get fifty thousand dollars worth
of one hundred dollars checks, all made out to cash,
with the reasons being noted as civilian relations. George decided
to keep them at his house in the city and
he would just go to his bank and cash one
out when he needed it.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Civilian relations.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Billion.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I feel like every time I've had to work customer
service that's how my check should have been made out right,
Avilion relationship.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
What did you do? I just dealt with life which
have people in it. And for the time, the payment
of one hundred dollars cash per night per girl on
top of what they got from the Johns was considered
pretty good. Like, that's not bad, it's legitimate work.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, they should be paid accordingly.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
I'm not justifying by the way the then prostitutes being
used in a illicit fashion.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
The uh, independent sex work is where it's at. Independent
consensual sex work is where it's at.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yes, it is one percent. Like, if you want to
do this for a living, I one hundred percent support you.
You do you if look, we're all selling our bodies
out here, I would suck dicks for one hundred bucks
a day.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Two just saying you're worth more than that.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
I mean that's just one dick per day. If it's
lots of dicks, we got a we're gonna I'll give you.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
I'll give you a payment scale A.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yes, I'm sure you could work that out.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
I absolutely could.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
And like what payment systems are best exactly now. Money
was not the only thing that George and Gottlied used
to control the prostitutes. George had a habit of skimming
the local police department's heroin locker out of its evidence locker,
because you know who keeps track of that?
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Why not?
Speaker 1 (37:21):
And he would get the prostitutes hooked on heroin so
that he controlled the supply of and it kept them
quiet and compliant. Not all of them got hooked on it.
As a matter of fact, from what I can tell,
most of them did not partake in the heroin. It
was more I think that George wanted to do heroin,
and so that was the excuse to get a lot
(37:44):
of heroin. Was all just use this on the prostitutes.
Also myself, I like.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
How in order to check out the heroin he had
to be like no, no, no, no, no, I'm drugging prostitutes.
Oh okay, that's fine, yeah, just sign right here.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
But if it's like I need to experiment with this
on myself, they're like mmmmmm, I don't know about that.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
And it's really telling. I think that there's lots of
evidence both in FBI files, his personal files, which I
still haven't gotten all of his personal files from Stanford,
but they did respond to me and ask for a
list of what I wanted, sent it back. I am
(38:27):
currently weighted with baited breast in direct penis for them
to send me those scans.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
So everyone, everyone, brace yourself for the fangirling that will
happen when he gets a hold of documents.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
I will screech like a pinched baby in happiness. But
a pinched baby wouldn't be happy. What would I scream like?
What's a happy scream? What screams like a.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Wu girl at a bar who just got her fourth
shot of tequila?
Speaker 1 (38:54):
It's very true.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I've only seen you.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
That's right under girl being invited to dance on the bar.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
You don't get invited, you just do it.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
How many shots of tequila does it take before you're
on the bar?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (39:10):
God?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Like one?
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I mean now, yeah, But back in the day when
it was one, just one?
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yeah, No, I was ready.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
You were just jumping on the bar.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Yeah. I had bruises all over my knees from crawling
on that thing. I mean, there were so many pictures
of me doing it, like fuck everything I was up
on the bar. I had to get kicked off one time,
and only because they were doing the wobble, and only
the waitresses got to do the wobble on the bar.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Oh okay, I thought, you mean like in the club
that was in the club. But because no, I mean
like no one can do the wobble but the waitresses
in the club.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
No, in the club was fine on the bar, it
was waitress only when the wobble came on, and I
was like, bitch, I do it better than all of you.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Now, what about the song in the club. Could you
do the wobble to in the club in the club
or was that only the waitresses that could do the
dance to in the club?
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Only the waitresses? Ask Jake, he was the DJ, Like,
it's very true. He can give you the whole lowdown.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
I do like how we drop very specific names and
knowledge that no one else knows. And even if you,
like lived where we live, you wouldn't know.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
But you'll be as excited as I was when I
got up on that bar. Okay, there we go. Especially
when the spotlight would hit me and like people were
taking pictures. Sometimes they'd throw money at me. That was fun,
so light and I didn't even have to get naked.
I threw money at me.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
We could monetize this.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Yeah, it's called being a stripper. We could monitor I'm
too old to be a stripper. My knees will not
hold up.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
I'll be a stripper.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Your knees especially won't hold up my knees.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Is the shoulders that really lack in that aspect, because
you got a hoist.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
I mean, if we go too far down this road,
we're going to get dosed with LSD.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
I was gonna say, in the fifties, they would have
already found us and been like male prostitutes. Why, boy,
how did Jimmy? I didn't even know men liked men,
all women liked men. Hell, if I just listened to
what my parents said, I should have killed each other
long ago. That was the prostitutes.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Interesting ramble there. Back to the heroin.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Back to heroin, and in a very weird way, the
CIA never uses heroin because they don't want to get
people addicted to the drugs.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Yet right yet, that would come later.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
That was more crack cocaine. That was way later, and
that was just to you know, siphon money so they
could send it to Anyway, We're going down the Iran
Contra rabbit hole here and go ahead.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
I was gonna say, I just going to start making
lists during the podcast of future episodes based on tangents.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
We got a lot of those. There was a lot
of bullshit that because there.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Was a lot of bullshit still is.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
It's just not classified yet. So the scene is set,
drugs are acquired, pimps paid, the prostitutees drugged up, and
George White is finally doing what he has wanted to
do his whole life. Masturbate truly the American dream of
sitting in an adjacent room while innocent people are drugged
with LSD and fucked to see what they will divulge. Now,
(42:33):
this is not the end of our story, but it
is the end of this episode. So you got some
uh some plugies. You want to plug my.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Plugabules, Yes, plug away. My little beacons thing is probably
the best, which is beacons dot ai forward slash him
bane h G N B A N E circle you.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
I want to spell circle for people.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
See I are c L E circle. That's where you
can find all my witchy shit. And if you want
to follow me as an author on Twitter, I don't
post anything except weird random prompts. But maybe I'll divulge
that another time. I don't know. I haven't decided.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
Yet, what's your Twitter handle?
Speaker 2 (43:19):
It's not that I just don't know if I like
my pen name yet, and I don't want to confuse people.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Okay, now we're all confused exactly.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Now you know what it's like to live in my brain.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
So you're also very, very famous.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
On I am not famous on TikTok. I've lost six
followers this week.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Well that doesn't mean you're not famous. Imagine how many
followers other famous people have lost this week.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I'm not famous on TikTok. I just have a very
engaging audience.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Look, we all are trying.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
And it's on my becons if you want to see it,
it's on my begons profile.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Okay, I mean we're all trying to be John Green
on TikTok.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
See my blog on there. You can see where I'm
putting up my tarot shop up there. Yes, I do
taro readings because I'm a fucking witch. So there there's
my pluggables. Happy.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
I have a tippy talk, but it's not good, so
I'm not putting it out there.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Oh cop Bell, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I'm not famous on TikTok. You can find me on
Twitter at three feet no slip or you can just
search my name Benjamin Malick. I put it out there
because I'm not smart. I will post all the updates,
and I don't post sources because no one's asked me to.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
You're very smart, and you have like five yards in
your birth chart means you're gonna change the world. Oh,
in five different ways. There's at least Mandy.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Here's one. Maybe there's five of you out there. I'm
going to change and I'll find you.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Just have the confidence of a white man who starts
a podcast to change the world.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
It is me. Well, I didn't do this to change
the world. I did it because no one else would
listen to me except for the void and me and you.
I do make you listen to me about the void.
So until next time, don't eat grass.
I'm a screamer the Alphabet Boys cast. I'm your host.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Ben Malik, adjusting his chair.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Adjusting my chair for inflation, and joined again by the
ever beautiful, ever responsive. I don't know why I said, I.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Was about to say response responsive.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
It's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I think you're like pausing really long to find adjectives
to describe me, and it's a little alarming.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
It wasn't that long. It's fine.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
We live in a happy marriage. We promise.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
We are actually very very happily married.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
So happy. We both have sinus infections just a little bit.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
But you know what, it's we're doing important work and
if we don't get this information to the public seventy
two years late, then what are we even doing. So
we're fighting through it for you, and we don't have
any well money to not do this.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
So yeah, I would like to note, in rebellion of
our upbringing, we're doing the Antichrist work.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yes. Also, we didn't say your name, it's Laura. Yeah.
Is so I did a dramatic reading last time and
it went over real well. And by went over real well,
I mean that.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
We got a lot of compliments on it. We did
yelled at you over it.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
You did, and you said I did a good job.
So now I'm making Laura do the dramatic reading to
open this episode, to really put the pressure on her.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I want it noted that I've had to read this
three times now because someone, the director over there, did
it like my notes.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It wasn't your notes. You just used a word that
wasn't the right word that I wrote down, and I
got real, real insecure about it. Yeah you did all right.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Fourth time's the charm. Dramatic reading.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Oh, we're making this su We're showing the sausage over here,
sausage making. We're showing how the sausage is made. New podcast,
new podcast, idea, show me your sausage.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
No, no, I don't have tender anymore for a reason.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Okay, okay, we're happily married, really, guys.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Dramatic reading. A chemist in his lab. Nothing special about
the lab, just a normal lab. Think of your high
school chemistry class. Glass speakers, bunsen burners, and a man
in a white lab coat, sitting in a high counter,
carefully notating his results of the day. No smell, no color,
he writes in his notes, carefully kept in his brown
(02:59):
leather on journal. He sighs. No helpful reaction from the
test subjects beyond a perceived heightened sense of nerves. He
taps his pen against the paper, a bad habit he
picked up in finishing school. He was always admonished for
having such messy notes. Looking up at the clock, he
sees it's time to head home. Good, he thinks to himself,
I was beginning to feel the walls closing in on
(03:21):
me today. Packing away his notes into his satchel, he
heads outside. It's wore a very nice day. His work
on finding a blood product stimulant could wait for a
clear head tomorrow. After all, he was working through an
extremely complex compound full of perplexing molecules that seemed to
come to nothing when synthesized individually. Perhaps we will not
(03:42):
find anything of use in the mold air got After all,
he had already produced twenty five distinct molecules from the compound,
the last in that line. He had just finished making
notes on lysergic acid Diethelamide twenty five had looked so
promising when grapped on paper, but had no meta perceived
effects on his lab mice. Tomorrow will bring a better day,
(04:04):
No reason to get frustrated. Five years of frustration and
disappointment later, the chemist holds his head in his hands,
rubbing his eyes with the heel of his palms. Sitting back,
he pulls out one of his older leather bound notebooks
and thumbs through it. Looking back on these early tests
so much promise, he thought I must have missed something.
He reaches one of his favorites, bysergic acid dimdimid twenty five.
(04:28):
He stops looking at its structure. He knew that it
must interact somehow with the brain. It was too like
many of the other chemicals found in the body to
not find once more. I will try you. Maybe the
fault is mine. He carefully goes through the motions of
isolating the molecule from the air got compound. As he
was measuring out the final dosage to store for the
testing the next day, he spilled a bit on his hand,
(04:50):
not thinking much of it. It was a non reactive
chemical after all. He finished his tasks and made a
few notes on procedure in his notebooks, and headed out
to bicycle home. He began to feel odd when he
made it home. He felt out of sorts, but not
in a bad way. I must be overtired, he thought
as he sat back on his couch, and the first
acid trip in history started in earnest colors. He had
(05:12):
never dreamed of repeating geometric patterns that he could manipulate
and control with his thought. He could see the radio
waves coming into his receiver three days later, and he
made up his mind he would dose himself with the
tiny amount of LSD to see what the effects would be.
He needed to confirm that it was the chemical and
not his mind. Breaking down, he measures out two hundred
and fifty microgram dose. He drank the clear liquid and waited.
(05:36):
This was the beginning of the most horror and ecstasy
filled afternoon of his life. He felt sick, his heart racing,
and unable to focus. He decides he needs to go home.
Stopping by his aid's desk, he asks for them to
call the doctor to meet him at his home, that
he had ingested a chemical and it was not reacting well. Somehow,
this slight, unassuming man bicycled home while entering a powerful
(05:59):
LSD ex experience, because, unknown to him, two hundred and
fifty micrograms is about ten times a dosage that would
send a full grown man into a trip that would
span an entire hippie jam band festival. Thinking he had
induced irreversible psychosis, he entered his home covered in sweat,
breathing heavily, and once again seeing patterns and colors he
(06:19):
could not seem to control. The doctor arrived as the
chemist was peeking on his trip. The doctor reassured him
everything looked normal to him, blood pressure normal, no fever.
The only physiological symptom he had was his pupils were
dilated wide open. When he heard these simple reassuring words,
it washed away all the worry and anxiety. Like a
fever breaking. He felt light, so light he realized he
(06:41):
was outside of his body, his corporal form laying on
the couch, his spirit hovering over it. He looked at
his body. Am I dead? If I am, it's quite pleasant.
His ego death was short lived. He re entered his body,
and a great calm descended over him, a feeling that
everything would be okay, the post psychedel like bliss of
ego death. You found me, he muttered under his breath.
(07:03):
The doctor, having no idea what had just happened, looked puzzled.
Oh no, not you. The chemical found me. The chemist said,
Hoffman had found one of the most powerful psychedelic chemicals
known to man. LSD had been discovered, and it was
set to change the world, one CIA agent at a time. Yeah,
finally fucking did it. Yeah, yeah, Jesus Christ, who one take?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
By the way, guys, that was all one want to try.
So that was a little bit just kind of background
of how LSD was discovered. Because most compounds that we
are useful to us a scientist licked or spilled on himself.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
It reminds me of a story from high school actually,
and it was like I didn't personally experience nor did
my teacher personally experience this, but she, like a teacher
down the hall, experienced this a couple years prior to
when I was there. And essentially, like this kid was
fiddling with something in class and she thought he was
passing notes, so she took up the notes, not knowing
(08:11):
that the entire paper was dosed with LSD and like
began tripping balls while teaching.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Algebra, which would be awesome.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
And like was thinking she was having a stroke and
did not know, and like the students had to go
get the administration for help. And of course this was
all hush hush, but like, I feel like algebra is
one of the.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Worst ways to trip ball, especially if you've never tripped
anything before, like disease.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
I see the equation's balancing.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
I don't, yeah, like I can't do algebra sober on
adderall So I don't want to know what it's like
just to get accidentally dosed with LSD. Also, that sounds
like an email chain that I would have gotten in
two thousand and.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Four of like the dangers of passing notes.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
And last not only like and there was that when
she came out from the grocery store there was a
piece of paper taped on her back windshield, and when
she got out and touched it, it was drugged with LSD.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Not gonna lie that actually did happen, not the LSD part,
but like, there was a piece of paper taped on
my windshield and I totally waited like three miles and
pulled over in a CBS parking lot. It was a
parking ticket, but.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I had to be sure back when you got those
good physical parking tickets. So Hoffman is like convinced this
is the future of medicine. Of course, I mean in
a lot, like for fifteen years. It was heavily studied
in the scientific community and had showed a lot of promise.
But we're going to see why it never went anywhere.
(09:42):
Really because unfortunately the CIA, doctor Gottlieb and George White
were coming and not just inside prostitutes.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Are outside prostitutes.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Right on around in. It really didn't matter, but for
Hoffman's miracle drug, they needed it, which meant the easiest
way to ensure only that they had it was to
make it illegal and then buy all of it. And
a quick rehash of why mk ultra was started and
allowed pretty much complete immunity to do anything they could
(10:13):
think of to try to form a repeatable and consistent
process of mind control, brainwashing, and in general just getting
to play evil scientists.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I think you mean they couldn't regulate the drug.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yes, they wanted to make sure no one else could
get it because they were convinced.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
So no, I'm being sarcastic. Oh like what they tell
all your autism showing and it's cute.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Autistic.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Oh yeah, you hate it when I do that a lot.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Well, I'm not like diagnosed autistic. I just have a
lot of the symptoms.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
It's expensive getting diagnosed. Yes, anyways, anyways, No, what I
mean is like they had to tell the public they
couldn't regulate it, which is why it was legal. Ah,
there we go, there we go.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
That was that was a bridge too far for me,
A deep dive. Yeah. So the reason that they justify
this is there were POWs coming back from both World
War two and the war in Korea changed. There were
taped confessions of gis admitting to war crimes that they
never committed, and them denouncing the United States and its
(11:24):
role in the war in those countries just as agents,
Just as any agents caught by the USSR would come
back completely broken and changed men. It also seemed that
American gis were much more susceptible to whatever the enemy
was doing to them. The rate of breaking by American
POWs was higher than Great Britain, the French, and much
(11:47):
much higher than the Germans or Russians. The Koreans and
Japanese and Vietnamese. They didn't break. They just usually killed themselves.
If they were taken prisoner, they just didn't say anything.
They they were not those of ones that broke. I
won't go into much detail why this is just suffice
(12:07):
to say that Americans are from birth trained to be
hyper independent and to think of their own self interests
above a collectives, and that translates into them breaking.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Faster, but yet wanting to be part of a collective
is entitlement.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yes, well that's communism and apparently makes that are soldiers.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Or they can regulate their usage of soldiers.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Right, And it's all like if you look back into
World War two, like the reason Japanese soldiers killed themselves
in mass numbers and the Japanese civilians killed themselves is
their religion was Shintoism, which was essentially the worship of
their Japanese nests like the emperor was to be served
(12:54):
with your entirely.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Worship of their collective sense of self.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yes, the worship of Japanese nationalism. Yes, pretty much like
the state above all, and that kind of came. We
won't go into that. That's way more history than anyone
wants to hear. But to those in command at the time,
they decided that it was fucking impossible and the only
(13:19):
way US troops were breaking so fast was because they
were being drugged and brainwashed not to remember it then
being reprogrammed. While the brainwashing part was true, there were
no drugs involved. Just get a good old social isolation
and torture.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Okay, So were they brainwashing them to have like were
they brainwashing them to erase what happened, but then saying
they were brainwashed to be like, oh, that didn't really happen,
so like the because that feels really convoluted.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
So the brainwashing was essentially like the idea of brainwashing,
which has a bunch of different meanings. But what the
talking about it here is they want to reduce a
person to having no memories like blank slate, right, yeah,
and then programming in what they want and then allowing
(14:15):
some of the programming to come back from their former lives.
And so that's kind of what mk Ultra was about,
was finding out how they could do this.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
So it's like when you have to wipe my computer
hard drive because I kill it with SIMS, and then
I try to bring SIMS back in a lighter form. Yeah, yeah,
it's like it's like or you're just reinstalling like my
basic softwares that died in the process of being destroyed
by SIMS.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Right, we're wiping everything off your operating system, like we
don't want you to forget how to talk and eat
and take a piss or whatever. But we want you
to forget. We want you to be so in the moment,
if I ask you who the president is, you're like,
I don't know, but this table is smooth. Like that's
the goal, and then you kind of put in the
programming you want and then let them come out of
(15:03):
the psychosis. Because the idea is, if we give you
the drug or we put you in social isolation, we
are going to cause mental illness and we're going to
open your brain up to like be vulnerable, to imperson it,
to be impressed upon. It was a whole like miscongruency
of scientific theories that were never proven.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Actually actually actually it's not that it was never proven.
I do have a little anecdotal bit about that.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah, so from.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
What I remember from Abnormal Psychology, they actually referenced that
process to understanding amnesia in patients who had gone through
severe PTSD and like, don't look at me, like I'm like,
you're about to get there. No, no, you did the eyebrow.
But that's how they figured out that like when amnesia happened,
(16:00):
that it's not like induced by someone else, but like
induced by PTSD, your mental illness or whatever. That it's
the brain's coping mechanism of survival. Like if we just
don't remember anything, we can keep on living. Yeah, and
that is what spawned my idea or my theory that
the brain is actually an alien entity trying to perfect
(16:22):
its host.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
I mean, we got lots of different things inside of
us telling us what to do, and we don't even
know it. And they do kind of do that a
little bit of where they like induce PTSD. That's later,
that's other MK ultra stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
We're just no, I just mean like psychologists after this
like reference to this process. Yeah, maybe that's what's happening.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Interesting, Yeah, because that wasn't until like the fourth or
fifth DM whatever it's called.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
No, it happened. It was they started figuring out in
the eighties, the eighties. Yeah, so that would be DSM three.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
DSM three, Okay, back on to track.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
We stayed on track.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
It was a very valuable anecdote. So anyway, that didn't
stop the US from completely believing in a drug that
could wipe a person clean. Plus, there was a rumor
that the USSR had bought a bunch of LSD from
Sendos which was the company that Hoffman was working for
producing the drug and was actively using it to break
the enemies of the USSR. Now, it couldn't be that
(17:20):
Sendos needed a reason to have a bunch of this drug,
you know, to sell it to somebody, and heard that
the CIA was looking for a drug that could do this,
and then they started a rumor saying they were going
to sell a bunch of or the USSR was trying
to buy a bunch of it from them. Couldn't be that.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
It was that, you know, speaking of buying things to
influence our mental state. I think there's probably some goods
and services that would also like to do that.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
But that's capitalism, and capitalism is always good. It doesn't
affect me at all.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
It's the Lord's worth.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
It only makes me so happy. Enjoy these ads and
services you got eyes, Oh those ads, girthy long ads.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
I want everyone to know. That's like a level four
compared to like reality.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Oh man, I can scream along with the rest of them.
I'm a screamer. So anyway, Hoffman was still working for
Sandals and they're the only manufacturer of LSD at the time,
and they do eventually tell the us like, Okay, we
(18:38):
haven't sold any LSC to the USSR. Yeah, And they
also kind of doubted that, like it was being used
in interrogations because just the way Haffman describe it, you
take it, it's great, and then you feel better about
your life. So it kind of has an anti anxiety effect,
which would probably not be great when you're trying to interrogate.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
So, I mean, I've always felt I can't say i've
always felt because I want to be the interrogator during
the zombie apocalypse. But sometimes when you give the carrot
instead of the step, people are more likely to think
you have more integrity and you know, be a little
bit more open with their words.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, not to jump ahead too much, but like the
CI figured out, like I don't know in the eighties
or nineties, if you just like tell the agents like, hey,
we'll give you an ass ton of money and a
new identity and no one will ever find you. Usually
they're like, oh cool, money talks. Yeah, here's all my information.
(19:43):
Get my kids out. Anyway. Also, the whole like ego
death thing probably not great for integrity interrogating people.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, it would be it
totally would be because like then you're no longer attached
to this dimension, so who the fuck cares what happens?
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I could see that, stee. But there's also the like,
would you like, my spirit is absent my body right now,
I don't care what you do.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
To it, Like that is ego death, Like it's the
death of the physical. So yeah, so you would be like.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I mean that is
not what they found. It didn't really work.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Shows how much acid I've done.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
I was. There is a point at which I say
that I've never done acid, and I don't really understand
why you would it. See, Okay, for me, it's like
ten hours of hallucinating seems way too much. And maybe
it's my capitalist upbringing, but it's cooler. Cousin DMT always
(20:41):
seemed better because you do it and like fifteen minutes
you go up, you talk to the fabric of space
and time, you come back down and you're ready to
go to work. Like it just seems more efficient to me.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
See as our local schizophrenic, I would say ten I've
I've experienced days days of hallucinating of various forms and
all I can say, is your brain gets tired of it,
Like there's a there's a little voice inside your head
that's like, okay, pull it together, Laura, Like you know this,
you know, you know this isn't real. You've been without
(21:14):
this before. But then there's the other part of your
brain that's like, I don't know, sounds like someone's singing
in my kitchen. Maybe I should go harmonize with them.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, I could, I could. I could say it. I
felt that well drunk, Like there's definitely been times when
I'm just like, I'm really tired of being drunk. I
would like to not be drunk anymore.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I've seen you reach that point I just lay down.
You've also seen me reach that hallucinatory point I have.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
It was scary. So, but the CIA had heard there's
a powerful new hallucinogen out there, and they needed it
like a diabetic needs cake, which is both by a
lot and also it was going to be real bad
for them. So Sandos agreed to sell them an undisclosed
but undoubtedly massive amount of LSD. And this is how
(22:00):
that drug ends up all over CIA headquarters and training grounds,
and it kind of becomes commonplace for agents to dose
each other and try to interrogate them each other.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
That is like a hallucinogenic circle jerk. Right.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
All was like an envision remember the old the old cartoon.
It was always they were always shorts on Nickelodeon's Spy
Versus Spy. Yes, that's all I see, except they're just
dosing each other with LSD and then tripping. There were
many accounts of like fingernis. There are various accounts of
agents being the like being the person being interrogated in
(22:38):
the room and being like starting to get the acid
trip and be like fuck, okay, here we go, and
then watching as their interrogator, who has also been drugged
without their knowledge, being like, shit, we're both drug Like
I thought, well, this is six hours wasted.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
You know what, I need to peel an orange and
you are the orange.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Right, I'm gonna find it. So when this didn't really work,
they decided it needed to start to be random. So
imagine it's nineteen fifty four. You're a brand new CIA
agent sitting in your lunch room.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
There's no ethics in studying and research.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Eating a sandwich and drinking your milk like a good boy.
Suddenly you don't feel right, you got dosed again. Your
sandwich looks at you and tells you m You say back,
I bet it's in my milk this time. You finish
your milk and go to your office to ride this
one out. It has gotten so bad that you have
a little couch in there just for riding out trips.
Your secretary sees your dilated pupils as you walk in
(23:37):
size and says, should I let your wife know? You're
working late? Again? Yeah? Yeah, this feels like an all nighter.
You go into your office, close and lock the door.
You're not feeling like being questioned well high again. You
lay on your couch and you turn on your radio
to help keep you grounded, and you just lean into it.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Can I just say that secretaries are the real MVP
of like everything? Absolutely, Like, I guess do I need
to call your wife again? Like just the same shit,
different day. I can now see why my grandmother wanted
to be a secretary, like she had the personality for it. Yeah,
and they are the real, the real MVPs of every
(24:17):
single situation.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Oh yeah, they're keeping everything together while these dudes just
run around and dose each other with drugs.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
I would also like to let Jonathan, my FBI agent,
know that, I, of course would not ever do drugs
or DMT or I don't know how I would know
how DMT would react or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
I mean, we totally watched to have a nice trip.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah, that's how I got all of that information about talking.
Yeah to ethereal, there's.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Enough documentaries out there about it.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, I don't I don't know how to make it anyway.
George White was approached by his old friend gott Lieb
after the war and invited him to work with him
at the newly CIA. This was George's wet dream come true.
What fun he gets to play secret agent while his
second wife sets up their home in California. To put
it out there, this home was a drug and swinger central,
(25:13):
literally a trap house for CIA agents or anybody that
came through. It was very normal to get dosed with
LSD for the Orgies without your consent.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Do you think they like intentionally had random things around
the house to like kind of promote the trip, like
to see if they'd respond to like certain pictures and shit.
There are kind of like how Carrie Fisher describes her home,
but a little bit more subtle.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yes, So there is a lot of accounts of George
White's personal life in his home because a lot of
times those were FBI agents that got invited because he
just was he didn't care.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
And nothing about this man has said otherwise.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
No, he's never had a He has never had a
what do you call it? A consequence in his life
for doing anything? So why not drug FBI agents that
you bring to your house so you can fuck them?
But you but his it is explained that the front
part of his house is very normal looking, but when
(26:18):
you went into the back of the house, which there
was only one door to get into, it was essentially
just erotic art and a pillow pit and an indoor pool, which,
by the.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Way, sounds about to say goals also on a freaking like.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I mean, I don't think he makes a lot of money.
I don't know what agents were making back then, but
he was stealing a lot of money from the CIA.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
So there's yeah, you drag them up, you take their money.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yes, it's mostly just well I'm actually going to get
to that in a minute. But his new job would
take him away from Californi and his Swinger Central and
to New York City. Two apartments in New York City
to be exact, both connected by a doorway. Gottlieb was
frustrated by the results from his normal agents using LSD,
(27:13):
and so he decided that this needed to be done
on every type of person, randomly when they were least
expecting it.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Can I just say this dude likes stores.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
He loves stores. They're the way.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
One door, one door. But here hear me out, hear
me out, one door.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
This is a man that shot his initials into the
crown molding of his apartment.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I mean, you got to do something.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
And then it became a habit where he would just
do it at wherever he was, Like at the restaurant,
pull out your silence nine mil and start tapping your initials.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I'm getting some real deep OCD vibes here, maybe some ADHD.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
The man was not None of these people were not
in a psychosis. Now he wanted to do it over
a wider range so he could get a more statist,
stickly pure sample to show how great this new drug
was and his system of breaking people, and a lot
of it had to do if you wanted to speed
up the breaking process of somebody, because like you can
(28:13):
break someone if you have enough time. Oh yeah, everyone
breaks eventually. Oh yeah, but he won aid unless your job,
unless you were a Shinto Japanese person, those people didn't
break for the most part. You give someone, you give
an experienced agent six months, you'll break somebody, which is
how the Germans and the Russians did it. Like the
Russians got all of their information on how to break
(28:36):
people from the German scientists and the people that they
brought over after World War Two.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Breaking people on the backs of giants exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
And the Americans got a lot of their stuff from
the Japanese the Ohn Goodness Operation or Unit seven oh two,
which was the experimental medic medical unit in Japan. And
by experimenting in medical I mean they tried to they
tried to genetically engineer flees to only give Korean people
(29:07):
the plague or train them.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
That sounds like a weird dream I've.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Had, and then drop clea bombs of.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah, yeah, this totally falls in line with like some
weird ass stream I'd have.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah. And they would also do stuff like freeze like
this is without any anesthesia or anything, like freeze someone's
arm and then try to unfreeze it and see what happens,
or just you know, break it off. Sounds about right
and be like, oh, that's interesting, Like they were just
it was horrific experimentation and they all got off by
(29:42):
the way, of course did they ended up actually one
of them, the lead guy in it, I believe, worked
at like Harvard for years. We'll do some episodes on
that one day. So he wants to be able to
wipe the memory of subjects, reprogram them to do tasks
they weren't even knowing they were doing. It's pretty much
(30:04):
the Mancherian candidate. So he turns to his friend George White,
who he already knew was morally wide open to drugging
people without their consent. But George wants complete control over
the operation, and he wants it to be separate from
MK Ultra because that's the only way he can keep
it separate and under his.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Control, separate and more equal yees.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
And he wanted to only report to doctor Gottlieb, and
doctor gottlie was like, yeah, sure, cool, whatever, I want
to drug people, you want to drug people. Let's drug people.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Twins E's twins E. Could we just become best friends? Oh?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
My god, there's so much room in these apartments for activities.
My god, so that the apartments just gonna briefly give
you a word salad, a delicious word salad about these apartments.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Toss that vocabulary.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Oh, so George decides that he is going to It's okay,
it's the fifties. Who would be like, okay, it's not
weird for this person to be bringing women in here
at all hours of the night, all the time to
a normal person. Artists. Oh god, so George poses as
(31:22):
an artist from the world.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Why you harp on my bohemian people?
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yep, love is love.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Here's a monisty.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
And so he's posing as a successful artist. And he
essentially had a trap apartment built filled with the latest
and modern amenities, including a console television and a high
fi surround a high fi sound system.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
I really want to know who his whole materior designer was.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Oh, I have a name, but I wasn't going to
say his name. But this is how we know.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Does he like design all of his homes?
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Yes, okay, it's like he brings the guy out who
designed his home.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
This is this is his trap supplier, right, he's the
guy he trusts, because if you're going to yeah, if
you're gonna.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Have this, isn't inconspicuous designs at all.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Right, It's not like I have two hundred and fifty
thousand dollars in CIA black money to pay this person,
which he does. And he wanted the space of the
trap apartment to be very feminine in feeling so very
mod very safe, very sent wi motherly. Even so, he
(32:34):
puts a bunch of erotic art on the walls, and
he has them as originals, like he has artists paint
original erotic art to his taste.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
These artists are like, oh my god, I'm finally making
it right.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
It probably got drugged, it's.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Shut into a river, or they thought they were given
LSD and then made the paintings.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, it's entirely true. Now I can't blame him at
this point. If I had two hundred fifty K in
nineteen fifty three and was like, make a trap house,
I would get some ironic hard.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
I like, a you'd finally get your little conversation pit
that you've been wanting forever.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
I fucking would with the weird nineteen fifties fireplace right
in the middle of it.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
That mid century caused cosmic feel Yes.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
So speaking of mid century cosmic feels, if you've been
feeling not cosmic and not mid century, maybe you should
try buying items, items that will be given up for
on these ads. Also, for some reason, a local country
radio station has been advertising on our shit ninety.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Four and oh oh the ball really.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yes, it's still on the fucking air, of course it is.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
It won't go. It's the radio cockroach. It's not going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
They found me. I hate country music and they're fucking
advertising on my channel.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I like you the bull.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
It's okay, I am, unless you're playing Dolly part and
it's not country and I don't like it. So enjoy
some ads. Don't listen to country music. I'm completely satisfied
with those commercials.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Would you get some dopamine.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
All the way inside.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
The button routin give me armed?
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Oh Amazon, you delicious fairy. Also, just to let you
guys know, we have ingested not LSD, but my personal
favorite drug, afron.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
We had to take some nasal spray.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah, some of us get through. Some of us were
a little snotty, and by some of us, I mean
both of us.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
You're not the one holding a towel in your lap
to blow your nose.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
I still don't understand your towel and blowing.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
I love it. It's comforting. It's so comforting.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
I don't question it. I just don't underst stand.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
It's fine. It's part of our weird mysteries of our marriage.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
It's very true. So through his connections to the CDCD
Dirty Underground, George got introduced to a pimp that had
a trustworthy cadre of high priced prostitutes that could do
what needed doing. The only problem the CIA only issues
payment in checks. That's for accounting reasons.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
As a bookkeeper, right, that makes me laugh, And the
prostitutes are fairly adverse to getting paid in checks that
say the federal government. I wonder why that could be.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Right, So White and Gottlieb get fifty thousand dollars worth
of one hundred dollars checks, all made out to cash,
with the reasons being noted as civilian relations. George decided
to keep them at his house in the city and
he would just go to his bank and cash one
out when he needed it.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Civilian relations.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Billion.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I feel like every time I've had to work customer
service that's how my check should have been made out right,
Avilion relationship.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
What did you do? I just dealt with life which
have people in it. And for the time, the payment
of one hundred dollars cash per night per girl on
top of what they got from the Johns was considered
pretty good. Like, that's not bad, it's legitimate work.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, they should be paid accordingly.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
I'm not justifying by the way the then prostitutes being
used in a illicit fashion.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
The uh, independent sex work is where it's at. Independent
consensual sex work is where it's at.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yes, it is one percent. Like, if you want to
do this for a living, I one hundred percent support you.
You do you if look, we're all selling our bodies
out here, I would suck dicks for one hundred bucks
a day.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Two just saying you're worth more than that.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
I mean that's just one dick per day. If it's
lots of dicks, we got a we're gonna I'll give you.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
I'll give you a payment scale A.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yes, I'm sure you could work that out.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
I absolutely could.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
And like what payment systems are best exactly now. Money
was not the only thing that George and Gottlied used
to control the prostitutes. George had a habit of skimming
the local police department's heroin locker out of its evidence locker,
because you know who keeps track of that?
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Why not?
Speaker 1 (37:21):
And he would get the prostitutes hooked on heroin so
that he controlled the supply of and it kept them
quiet and compliant. Not all of them got hooked on it.
As a matter of fact, from what I can tell,
most of them did not partake in the heroin. It
was more I think that George wanted to do heroin,
and so that was the excuse to get a lot
(37:44):
of heroin. Was all just use this on the prostitutes.
Also myself, I like.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
How in order to check out the heroin he had
to be like no, no, no, no, no, I'm drugging prostitutes.
Oh okay, that's fine, yeah, just sign right here.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
But if it's like I need to experiment with this
on myself, they're like mmmmmm, I don't know about that.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
And it's really telling. I think that there's lots of
evidence both in FBI files, his personal files, which I
still haven't gotten all of his personal files from Stanford,
but they did respond to me and ask for a
list of what I wanted, sent it back. I am
(38:27):
currently weighted with baited breast in direct penis for them
to send me those scans.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
So everyone, everyone, brace yourself for the fangirling that will
happen when he gets a hold of documents.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
I will screech like a pinched baby in happiness. But
a pinched baby wouldn't be happy. What would I scream like?
What's a happy scream? What screams like a.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Wu girl at a bar who just got her fourth
shot of tequila?
Speaker 1 (38:54):
It's very true.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I've only seen you.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
That's right under girl being invited to dance on the bar.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
You don't get invited, you just do it.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
How many shots of tequila does it take before you're
on the bar?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (39:10):
God?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Like one?
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I mean now, yeah, But back in the day when
it was one, just one?
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yeah, No, I was ready.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
You were just jumping on the bar.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Yeah. I had bruises all over my knees from crawling
on that thing. I mean, there were so many pictures
of me doing it, like fuck everything I was up
on the bar. I had to get kicked off one time,
and only because they were doing the wobble, and only
the waitresses got to do the wobble on the bar.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Oh okay, I thought, you mean like in the club
that was in the club. But because no, I mean
like no one can do the wobble but the waitresses
in the club.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
No, in the club was fine on the bar, it
was waitress only when the wobble came on, and I
was like, bitch, I do it better than all of you.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Now, what about the song in the club. Could you
do the wobble to in the club in the club
or was that only the waitresses that could do the
dance to in the club?
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Only the waitresses? Ask Jake, he was the DJ, Like,
it's very true. He can give you the whole lowdown.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
I do like how we drop very specific names and
knowledge that no one else knows. And even if you,
like lived where we live, you wouldn't know.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
But you'll be as excited as I was when I
got up on that bar. Okay, there we go. Especially
when the spotlight would hit me and like people were
taking pictures. Sometimes they'd throw money at me. That was fun,
so light and I didn't even have to get naked.
I threw money at me.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
We could monetize this.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Yeah, it's called being a stripper. We could monitor I'm
too old to be a stripper. My knees will not
hold up.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
I'll be a stripper.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Your knees especially won't hold up my knees.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Is the shoulders that really lack in that aspect, because
you got a hoist.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
I mean, if we go too far down this road,
we're going to get dosed with LSD.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
I was gonna say, in the fifties, they would have
already found us and been like male prostitutes. Why, boy,
how did Jimmy? I didn't even know men liked men,
all women liked men. Hell, if I just listened to
what my parents said, I should have killed each other
long ago. That was the prostitutes.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Interesting ramble there. Back to the heroin.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Back to heroin, and in a very weird way, the
CIA never uses heroin because they don't want to get
people addicted to the drugs.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Yet right yet, that would come later.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
That was more crack cocaine. That was way later, and
that was just to you know, siphon money so they
could send it to Anyway, We're going down the Iran
Contra rabbit hole here and go ahead.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
I was gonna say, I just going to start making
lists during the podcast of future episodes based on tangents.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
We got a lot of those. There was a lot
of bullshit that because there.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Was a lot of bullshit still is.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
It's just not classified yet. So the scene is set,
drugs are acquired, pimps paid, the prostitutees drugged up, and
George White is finally doing what he has wanted to
do his whole life. Masturbate truly the American dream of
sitting in an adjacent room while innocent people are drugged
with LSD and fucked to see what they will divulge. Now,
(42:33):
this is not the end of our story, but it
is the end of this episode. So you got some
uh some plugies. You want to plug my.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Plugabules, Yes, plug away. My little beacons thing is probably
the best, which is beacons dot ai forward slash him
bane h G N B A N E circle you.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
I want to spell circle for people.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
See I are c L E circle. That's where you
can find all my witchy shit. And if you want
to follow me as an author on Twitter, I don't
post anything except weird random prompts. But maybe I'll divulge
that another time. I don't know. I haven't decided.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
Yet, what's your Twitter handle?
Speaker 2 (43:19):
It's not that I just don't know if I like
my pen name yet, and I don't want to confuse people.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Okay, now we're all confused exactly.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Now you know what it's like to live in my brain.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
So you're also very, very famous.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
On I am not famous on TikTok. I've lost six
followers this week.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Well that doesn't mean you're not famous. Imagine how many
followers other famous people have lost this week.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I'm not famous on TikTok. I just have a very
engaging audience.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Look, we all are trying.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
And it's on my becons if you want to see it,
it's on my begons profile.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Okay, I mean we're all trying to be John Green
on TikTok.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
See my blog on there. You can see where I'm
putting up my tarot shop up there. Yes, I do
taro readings because I'm a fucking witch. So there there's
my pluggables. Happy.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
I have a tippy talk, but it's not good, so
I'm not putting it out there.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Oh cop Bell, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I'm not famous on TikTok. You can find me on
Twitter at three feet no slip or you can just
search my name Benjamin Malick. I put it out there
because I'm not smart. I will post all the updates,
and I don't post sources because no one's asked me to.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
You're very smart, and you have like five yards in
your birth chart means you're gonna change the world. Oh,
in five different ways. There's at least Mandy.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Here's one. Maybe there's five of you out there. I'm
going to change and I'll find you.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Just have the confidence of a white man who starts
a podcast to change the world.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
It is me. Well, I didn't do this to change
the world. I did it because no one else would
listen to me except for the void and me and you.
I do make you listen to me about the void.
So until next time, don't eat grass.
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