June 17, 2022 • 58 mins
George H. White failed his way into the most diabolical govermental experiment run on US citisens ever. MKUltra and specifically project Midnight Climax.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
For those that don't know, I'm squinting at him.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, I don't know why I'm.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Because I know your potential.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
That's why I'm pursuing my potential. Oh my gosh, are
you I don't know? Welcome to the Alphabet Boys podcast.
My name is Ben Malick.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Don't say your full name.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I always people gotta know. They're gonna know.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
They can look me up, look me up on Twitter,
tweet me. I'm on there at least once a week.
That's just way too much.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
So they're like seven times a day.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I should be. So this episode of The Alphabet Boys,
we're going to stay with the CIA. In what turned
out to be probably the next year of episodes, we're
going to start going over the wonderful world of Project
(01:05):
mk Ultra, also known as Project Artichoke, also known as
like fifty other subprojects. But today we are starting with
Operation Midnight Climax.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
The way that you were like watching me for my
reaction for that one.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, Like, I actually.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Don't know about Midnight Climax. Midnight Climax, which sounds like
a thing I would like to participate in.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
It is by far the best named operation of all time.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
I mean compared to Operation Artichoke, Like, yeah, that was
just like some dude, probably British.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I'm thinking British.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
H not art to Choke.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
It's something weird.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Caperclip was definitely British.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
That was the name. Yeah, I mean, which we'll talk
about the OSS two, which was the CIA for the
World War two, and or we had a CIA.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Can I just say, I'm so happy that you introduced
yourself and not me.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well, you're always here. I figured you would introduce yourself.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Well, when you keep talking, I can't introduce myself.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I'm a talker. So this is my lovely co host.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, I'm married to this dude.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yes, And they also have a name.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
You can call me Laura.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Oh, we can call her Laura. Don't call me late
for Dinna. So we're going to start this one off
after a good four minutes of meandering on a little
bit of a dramatic reading, and here we go. In
(02:48):
the early nineteen fifties, there was a man. He is
sitting in a New York City apartment. A THHC soaked
cigarette burns between his lips. The smoke from the ember
on the end of the unfiltered GI Choker journeyed up
to the ceiling, already full of smoke. Around him lay
roughly one hundred thousand dollars worth of the latest and
(03:08):
spycraft gadgets, massive audio recorders that could record continuously for
twenty four hours straight without having to change the magnetic
reels that stored the voice records of the man's subjects.
The man sits and watches through a two way mirror
as a pair of CIA hired prostitutes render a very
high priced service to a local banking magnate. The THHC
(03:32):
is starting to make the man drowsy. He realized he
smoked more than he thought. He has mumbled under his
breath shit, sitting straight up and checking his watch one am,
another five hours before he could get any sleep. He
looked through his options. Coffee. No, coffee had lost all
of its waking power on him during the war while
(03:53):
he was in Turkey. Alcohol. No, that wouldn't do it
for tonight. It would just make him more sleepy. So
it came down to two options. A dose of go pills,
a derivative of methanphetamine, or and much more fun in
his view, a double dose of pure LSD. He smiles,
picks up the dropper of clear liquid and measured out
(04:15):
his doses, sat back and got ready for his own
private show. Or else Can I get paid to do this?
He smiles and thinks, looking back at his personal peep show.
The ladies knew what to do. They were two of
the best that he had access to. They knew what
to do to the banker, and he was already and
he had already drunk his dose of LSD when the
(04:38):
ladies had first brought him into the observation apartment. They
are really working him over tonight, he thought, while he
watched the banker, now masked, gagged and handcuffed to the headboard,
was showing the first signs of the LSD kicking in.
He had no idea what was going on. No one
had told him he was taking LSD. As a matter
of fact, in the early nineteen fifth no one would
(05:01):
know what LSD was if you told them, you gave
it to them. The women went to work on the
banker in ernest, driving him towards orgasm, then asking impersonal
questions and keeping him from climaxing until he would answer
their questions. Just another Friday night, the man thought, settling
back into his chair and starting the video camera so
he could review this session again and again and again.
(05:27):
The voyeur of our story is named George H. White,
a CIA agent that had failed his way up the
federal ladder of rink until he was a lead agent
on the project we are going to be talking about today,
Midnight Climax, which is one of the many, many projects
which fall under the umbrella of the massive Project MK Ultra,
(05:48):
which was a mind control and behavior control experiment conducted
for roughly fifteen years during the CIA from nineteen roughly
fifty until nineteen sixty five.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I really missed my opportunity there, right. Did you write that?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:08):
This is what I mean when I say you're a
really good fucking writer, like Jesus Christ. Why do you
not listen to me? I mean, you know you fucking
wrote that.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, I knocked it out last night.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
I thought it was Benjamin. I'm the one trying to
be an author and you're over here just diddling away.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Well, you know, I was just trying to get in
the head of George.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Well you did.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Who's a horrible sycophant. I don't throw this word around
a lot, but he's quite perverted. And not in a
like this.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Should also be called way not midnight climax, but midnight edging.
He well, everybody climate, So, how do you fail your
way up the CIA ladder to be able to take
LSD and watch people have sex?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Oh? Are gonna discuss that?
Speaker 1 (07:02):
But I would. I would feel like that's a pretty
decent promotion. Not failing your way.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Oh no, he totally failed his way up. He got. Well,
we'll go over that now because that's my next little
area of slides.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
For those that don't know, I'm squinting at him, Well,
I don't know why I'm because I know your potential.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
That's why I'm pursuing my potential. Oh my gosh, are
you I don't know. Supposedly, that's what my professors keep
telling me. So. George H. Whye born six twenty two,
nineteen oh seven in Los Angeles, California, Well, actually just
South Los Angeles. And we all know what that means.
(07:46):
He's a fucking cancer Gemini cusp and there's nothing worse
in life.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
His birthday's coming up next week weeks from today.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Maybe we could release the final episode on his birthday,
just out of memorial.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
That is ambitious, but Oh, he's very ambitious.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
The early life of Colonel George H. White is a
pretty big empty space. He never really talked about it,
which is odd because he seemed to talk about everything,
and he also just lied about everything he ever did,
which is one of the weird portions of his life.
Is very hard to tell what he was doing. What
(08:26):
we do know is that he attended Oregon State College
from nineteen twenty four to nineteen twenty six, and he
got a two year degree in journalism and got hired
by a small San Francisco newspaper as a beat writer.
There's also stories about this time that he worked for
the Red Cross for a short period of time, but
it's very convoluted and the sources that I could find
(08:48):
that were actually reputable.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Is this the dude you're trying to get like the
diaries for.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yes, I'm trying. Hey, I know you're listening. Stanford Special
Collections Library. I have ten boxes of this man's diary
with pictures of people that he was not related to
in it, that was all donated by his wife in
like nineteen seven.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Heure's probably from a two way mirror, apparently.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Probably I think they were for the like some of
the prostitutes, I mean his him and his second wife
for swingers, and a bunch of other stuff too, But
we'll get there. So, yeah, give me, give me, gim me,
give me, give me, gimme. Works for a small San
Francisco newspaper as a beat writer, which he was horrible at.
So he got fired from that job, and then gets
(09:32):
hired at a smaller paper that's kind of tabloidy. But
he also doesn't last long there either. So he decided
that he wanted to go on to you know, the
normal fallback of any journalist, uh, to apply for the FBI.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
They didn't really have like podcasting back then, right, It.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Wasn't like, well, I'm not a I can't journal any more.
I guess a podcast.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
He didn't have Twitter, No, so what's the next best thing,
the FBI?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Right, let's go be an FBI agent. He had no
relevant experience for it. Most of them don't, and he
got rejected immediately.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Most of them do.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
And so at this point the person that interviewed him
and put him through his tests and everything, which we
don't have the name of, and I wish I did,
because I love how he described his application. Quote he
possessed none of the qualities that the Federal Investigation Agency
looks for in an agent to execute their missions. Well,
(10:41):
essentially saying you're short, you're fat, and you are dumb,
and we don't want you to be in here. You
can't sit with us exactly. However, through his CD connections
from being a tabloid writer, as they do, he did
get a job as a as a border patrol agent.
(11:01):
Oh god, now much like, now.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Which border are we talking about? Oh he lives in
southern California, so it's not Canada.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
No good.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
That was a horrible Canadian accent.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, So once again, there's not a
lot about his time in the US Border Patrol. But
we can just assume that as now he would be
a huge racist cunt, because you have to be one too.
I mean, he was later in life, so it kind
of matches.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
This really makes me wonder what they would have said
about me if I had actually applied to Secret Service.
Not like me being a racist cunt.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
You'd be in Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
But like when I was like looking at being a
honey pot in my early ty because I had nothing
better to do.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I just remember the story of your sister who had
just had your nephew at the time, who was like
one was was he?
Speaker 1 (11:59):
He was not even one? And she was like, do
you want me just to tell him you're dead and
his aunt is dead? Is that what she wants? That's
what's gonna happen. If you go in this secret service.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
And it's like, was it Secret Service or CIA?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
It was Secret Service? Oh well, I was gonna apply.
Well I was my starting point was applying to Secret
Service because I had connections.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Oh yeah, that's true. And I mean, to be honest,
like you'd probably be working a desk job for the
majority of the time you're there.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
I don't know. I'm racially ambiguous enough that they could
have stuck me in many countries.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
You're very pretty, and you are very racially ambiguous. But
it would be a while before they would have to like,
you don't go home, you have no home.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
I mean, they'd have to make me a honeypot pretty quick,
because like my clock was ticking soon as I hit
twenty six. I'm pretty sure that would have been the cutoff.
Like nope, she's too old.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
I mean, I don't mean that's.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
When my joints started failing.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Anyways, you you continue to look ten years younger than
you are.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
My joints are ten years older than I, if not more.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Think of the think of the healthcare you could have
gotten in that foreign country. Probably you'd probably be you know,
your joints have probably all worked.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Oh God, what would have happened if I was a
honeypot and then they discovered I had schizophrenia? That probably
would have Oh that would have been a story there.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
There would have just put you in the LSD, just
dumped you in the tank, been like, oh no, you
suffered a psychotic break and got thrown off the top
of a ten story psychiatric word with three bullet holes
in your chest. But it was suicide. We're going to
get to that one.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
There's there's an alternate reality of me that lived that life.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Oh, no, doubt it. You would be a good secret
agent as long as everyone told you you were following
the right rules.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
But I also can't keep a secret.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
That is an issue. I mean, there's a place for
you in the CIA.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Tell me about this place.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
That place is the We need someone to relay information
that they think is a secret to the enemy. But
feel bad enough genuinely bad enough by telling them that
they believe them.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yet I would have been ballerd interrogation.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
You would have We all disassociate in our own ways.
Yours is inflicting pain on other people. So after not
getting the FBI position in nineteen thirty four, he joined
up with the Border Patrol, thinking it would be a
great stepping stone to his dream job of being an
FBI agent. It wasn't. The FBI doesn't really recruit Border
(14:49):
Patrol agents because they are usually the guys that get
rejected from the FBI. It's kind of what. It's the
bottom of the shitty racist ladder. After a year of
being in the desert being a racist cunt, George decided
that being this hot was not for him long term.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
So it's a dry heat.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
It's a heat. I get the distinct feeling that he
sat in an office somewhere with a fan blowing on
him because he's not an athletic human like. He is
described as five seven two and thirty pounds and only
intimidating when sitting down, So the second he stood up,
(15:30):
he just like somehow his body turned into an amorphous blob.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Something tells me he quit because he didn't get promoted
to having a fan, possibly.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Like he didn't rate a fan in the nineteen thirties.
His next move was being able to transfer to the
position of Special Agent of the Bureau of Narcotics. Now
this is where he really starts to shine.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
So the BNA, I don't know if that's what they
called it, bo In bo in.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Bond, Bureau of Narcotics. So, and this is where he
kind of starts to get introduced to the world of drugs. Drugs.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
They all said it was going to be in high school,
but really it's the government.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
It really, man, it's so much the government, Like we
wouldn't have LSD. There was one source for LSD in
the fifties and it was the Swedish guy that vented
it because he's like, yeah, I'm not showing this to anybody,
and then the well, we'll get to it. See how
he bought a bunch of it anyhow. So George White,
(16:42):
now a fully fledged member of the narcotics community once again,
has a lot of connections to really CDs people and
he decides, well, probably the best thing for me to
do is to go undercover, because you know, nothing says
I'm an under I'm not an under I'm not a
(17:03):
narcotics agent, like being a rotund, short dude that's very,
very white whose last name is white. But he does.
He actually gets in with a Chinese syndicate who's smuggling
primarily heroin and opium.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
I was about to say, like left hard left there, okay.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Right, But they love him, They absolutely dorm because he
has no fucking morals. He's just like, I don't I'm
just here to like they know he works for the
Bureau of Narcotics, Like you can't not know, and so
he essentially is on the take from them. And it's
(17:44):
not explicitly like in a lot of his the stories
about him, but if you read the reports that the
FBI kept gathering on him because they're like this fuck,
or what's he even doing?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Like when the FBI doesn't know what you're doing?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Right to some shit? Right, So this is not a
huge like event in his life. But the reason I
bring it up, I mean, it's it's pretty impressive, Number one,
I got to put it out there. The dude like
was impressively a moral Like he didn't care. There was
no point at which he was like this is probably
(18:23):
in general bad for people. He was just focused on
is this good for me? Well, I can do lots
of heroin, so it's probably good for me. So that's
just kind of how he worked around his life. You
know what it's time for? And who also is amoral
and is really only looking out for themselves?
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Capitalism?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Capitalism. Let's listen to some ads.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
And funded by the FBI.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Probably hello, Jonathan, my FBI agent. That one's for you.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Not always of making the world reluctantly go round.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
And I.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Because very slow and painful death.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Speeding up though?
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Is it? Is it? You know? So?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Anyway, the reason I bring up all of this. You
know him in the Chinese mafia is because he has
the best best name in the Chinese mafia. His cover
name is Moshi Pickles Moshi or Mushy Moshi. Oh I
(19:42):
s h e Pickles Mosh Pickles.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Okay, I have no Maybe he was hung like a gurkin.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I don't have any details on his penis one of
the reasons I want his journals. I need to know
dick size and quality. Quality Yeah, well, I mean does
not mean quality you can have what.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
About this dude says he has a good quality anything?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Nothing at all at all, because it's like he's just
he's just a horrible person. Like his entire career path
is that I could fuck with them.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Like in my personal experience, the like worst of the
worst had also the worst quality in bed. It's true,
like there was no balance, there was no like, well,
at least they're good at No.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
No, it's just all bad all the time.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, Like anyone who's that selfish definitely doesn't know how
to treat me other than like I'm a cheat coat
on Xbox.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Where's the D? Where's the D or the C?
Speaker 1 (20:52):
It would be the C.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
It would be the C.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
They knew where the D was and it was not
going anywhere near the b.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Oh Okay, So back into his life as a narcotics agent,
and this is where he kind of starts to make
a name for himself because i mean, come on, He
does kind of infiltrate the Chinese mafia, which is pretty cool,
but it's the biggest thing that he gets at this
point is a lot once again CD connections to the
(21:26):
drug world, right, and so he is trying to build
a case against a member of the Italian mob that's
moving in from the East Coast into the West Coast
and obviously the Chinese mafia doesn't want that.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Oh god, what if it's my family.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
There is no names attached because or to the to
the gangsters that I'm about to talk about, Like, I
don't have any names for him.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
But possibly, I mean I can probably can to probably.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Could the story because he actually has a couple of
friends in the Italian mom who are actually pretty pretty
high up like West Coast guys. And he keeps he's
talking to a British special agent that he's somehow talked to,
(22:23):
and they're like and then because the British have an
actual intelligence service, the America doesn't really at this stot.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
We're talking about like the I six, this is pre m.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I six, okay, but it is the British.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
I knew that what the six was.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
I'm not really you know what, I know nothing about British.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
I only know what killing Eve. That's how I know
about it.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I just like, I think this is more like Scotland
Yard time period, like.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Everyone has a secret British agent that they could be
in with.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Oh yeah, like someone else.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Even the cigarette man had one, which is for what
are you ever reason? When you opened this? I was like,
he's talking about the cigarette men from Mexico.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Well, he definitely doesn't shoot Kennedy because he's a real
bad shot. So they're talking about like, man, wouldn't it
be great to have a truth serum. This is in
once Again nineteen thirty five because it's before he applies
(23:27):
to the FBI again and gets rejected again. But there
are charm well he never raised it to the FBI
spoiler alert, And so he's talking to the British guy
and he's like, well, you know, and this he doesn't
actually say this to the British man, but his thought
process is, well, I'm a narcotics agent. I know where
(23:50):
lots of narcotics are. I can just get narcotics and
test it on people. So you can see why he
is becoming a model citizen very early in his career,
before he's even being told to, you know, kidnap people
off the street and give them lsd s. Are you
thinking that way?
Speaker 1 (24:10):
I need to know which person called him a person
with a lot of integrity, because he sounds like the
person that gets called someone with a lot of integrity.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
We will get there, yep.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
See, because there's always someone there, yep.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
I mean the person that says he has lots of integrity,
in the next sentence talks about like, but we really
shouldn't put him in charge of anything that could kill someone,
and then immediately puts him in charge of Project Climax
or Project Midnight Climax. So what he realizes is he
(24:45):
needs to talk to some of the chemists down at
his good old narcotics buddies lab chemists, and he's like,
I want liquid THHC because I want to test it
on a gangster. Literally says that walks into a federal
building and tells them I need liquid THHC so I
(25:09):
can test it on somebody, and right, and like, think
about that, just like walking into your work and being
so like middle class white man American that you're like, man,
I know this is the federal government and this is
already an illegal drug. I need a vial of liquid
(25:30):
THHC so that I can drug people unknowingly. And they're like, yeah, sure,
go ahead. Here. I think he started off with a lot.
It was a large amount of liquid THHC. Now the
problem is he doesn't fucking know how much THHG to
give somebody. He doesn't know any anything about it and like,
(25:53):
no one has smoked liquid THHC before that he can
talk to. So he decides the best way to get
his gangster friend to open up is to dose his
cigarettes with liquid THHC, which becomes the go to way
(26:16):
to get THHC inside of somebody as quickly as possible.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
I'd really like to know the paper they were using,
to know that, like the cigarettes still lit after you
put liquid THHC in it.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
I you know, I think it was.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
I mean, this was before filters were like a real
popular thing.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, so I think what they would.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Do is kiuse my brain to be like, put it
in the filter. It's a sponge, right, But no, apparently not.
What they would do is they would he had hand
rolled cigarettes, and so he would put the THHC on
the tobacco and then roll them up.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
That's what I figured. But still, like the tobacco would
be damp, and so I'm.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Like, I think he would dry, Like I don't know
the entire process, but it worked.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
I'm just imagining someone.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Like, it's just a wet out.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
It's fine, it's taking.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Longer than I thought, just waving it, maybe toasted a little.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
They still won't give me a fucking fan. So he
doses them and I hoof, Now you might be thinking
I've been high, and maybe you haven't, but if you have,
you know that. Like, it's not a truth serum.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Like I'm all seen the nineties commercial of like don't
smoke pot with the dude flattened into.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
The cow, right, Like, it's not going to make you
like divulge your deepest market secrets. It's probably gonna make
you want to eat and lay down and go.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
To sleep and make you divulge your deepest market secrets food.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
It's very true, and so it's like it doesn't really
make any sense. But let me explain how much THCHC
he pumped into this poor man.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Oh dere.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
He dosed thirty cigarettes with roughly fifteen grams of liquid THC,
and the man smoked all of them over the course
of four hours.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
I need like an equivalency meter here.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
So a gram of pure thchc is like a whole cart.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
So he essentially smoked four hundred carts in four hours.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
No one gram? Uh one cart?
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Right? So fifteen carts, oh sorry, spread over okay, so
fifteen carts over okay?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, still massive.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
It was like four hundred carts like your lungs with
just k yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
You wouldn't even have like no, I mean, they'll find
out later what happens when you do that, But no
fifteen grams of liquid to see. Over the course of
four hours, the man should be his brain should have
melted out of his nose. So he got high as
a fucking kite, higher than giraffe pussy. And the gangster
(29:26):
had allegedly never done any drugs before, and he didn't
know that he was getting drugged.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
I'd be thinking I was having a brain aneurysm.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Exactly, And enough THHD went into this man to get
the entirety of burning man ripped like high. So he
just started talking about everything. There was nothing that the
man did not talk about. And so George White is like, look,
yes I did, right, I am I I Narcotics Agent
(30:00):
White have complete I've busted it wide open. We have
a truth serum.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Guys, we're gonna name it Moshi Pickles.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Right, this blend is Moshi Pickles. So about this time,
we're going to skip a couple of years because nothing
really interesting happens until World War two breaks out there.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
There is usually a dip after the eureka moment, you
just don't get as high as that for a while.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah, I mean, I mean he does continue continue to
drug people against their will.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Well, yeah, he's not going to stop. He's not like,
oh it worked, No, that this is like his new kink.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
And speaking of kinks, he does use it very regularly himself.
Of course, he does. All of the drugs that he
gives other people, he uses first. And in his words,
well you know, that's just that's what all any good
doctor would do, is to try the drugs first, he says,
while mainlining heroin.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
You opened the whole thing, this whole podcast with his
cigarette THHC Right, so THHC cigarette. Yeah that sounds better.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Sorry, the cigarettes. So at this point, he has gotten
rejected by the FBI twice, worked in the worst federal
law enforcement agency, and got bumped up to the second
worst but probably most corrupt agency, which is the narcotic
the Bureau of Narcotics.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
It's always the middle child.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
It's always the middle child around. When the war breaks out,
he it gets really weird because he somehow gets in
the OSS, which is the World War two equivalent of
the CIA, right, and he gets he goes to a
(32:03):
meeting in Canada with like he's just like a lackey there,
Like he's just there to fucking carry people's bags and
take notes.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Pretty much Canada, Canada.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
A lot of the stuff that America doesn't want to
talk about happened in Canada. A No one suspects they're
a great white North of being evil. This is Americans.
We're like, I have universal health care. How can they
be bad? It's not good.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
It's the middle child, right.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
And so while he's up there at this conference, they
have this, you know, meeting of all of the minds,
scientific minds of the time in espionage to talk about
a truth serum, which they're all looking for because you
just torturing people really doesn't work that good.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
All these great people with integrity aren't spilling the beans.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Right, they got them Integrity's damn it. Germans and so
the British were like, well, we've got some stuff we
use for knockout drugs, which is just like a derivative
of oh god, what's the I forgot to write it.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Shit is about rhypnal.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
No, it's not hypnol. Although we get to rhypnol eventually,
the stuff that you good lord, you aspirate it into
people's lungs like.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
It's it was nitrous oxide.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
No, it was like the biggest trope of the nineteen
nineties of getting kidnapped. Someone would come up with a
rag and put it over your mouth.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Oh my god, why nip and you breathe it in.
I'm like, cyanide, it's not sign right.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Oh my gosh, Wow, this is bad. Guys.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Maybe an AD will tell us.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Maybe an AD will tell us that's entirely possible. As
a matter of fact, let's see if these ads can
actually tell us this while my ADHD brain won't let
me move on from not being able to find this
little marker. Thanks Scott.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Form.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, no, every I kept seeing the scene from a spenter,
a pet detective where he's chasing down all of the
Dolphins football players and chloroforming them so he can.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Well that's a core memory that just came back right
to the front of my brain.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
And he like sprints down and catches the dude and
jumps on his back and like, oh, I just got
to sleep. Yes, yeah, that's that's exactly what I'm picturing here.
So the a derivative chloroform. They're like just like three
drops and a drink in there. They're out, but they're out.
You can't question.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Them when someone is incapacitated. They're not exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Vocal, right. It's just kind of like speaking as some.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
One who's been under anesthesia many times.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yes, been there.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Except rufi that one time someone tried to roofie me.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Well when you're when you're on antipsychotics, you can't get rufy.
So yeah, and so he was like, well, I've got
something way better than that. And he literally like whips
up a presentation in twenty four hours about how everything
he's done with THHC, which apparently the British had not
(35:31):
really been using because they were like, I don't know,
that's what the Indian smoke.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
We imagine if he had a power point like the
graphics he'd use. I wonder what Slyde transitions he would
use to be like, look the Wonders of THHC.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
He would do the spinny like the nineteen nineties, spinning
in from the background and spinning out.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
See. I feel like that would be his intro and
his exit. But the media, like the middle of the
graphics would be that weird like pixelated wood where like
pops up in little squares.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Ooh, that's a good one, like flies in flies out. Yeah. Yeah.
We go into this portion of his life where he
kind of makes he's starting to make some really high
up connections, and while he's at this conference, he meets
someone who is very important not only to the rest
(36:24):
of this story, but for all of m k Ultra
going forward.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
See this is where it's haunding. Like an X Files episode,
it always starts at a convention or conference where they
all gather. I mean, considering X Files is like based
on the CIA. But anyways, is.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
It the CIA? Are the are the agents? What are
they under or do they have a I mean, I know.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
They're in the FI, they're under the FBI, but like
they work with the CIA a lot. Yeah, I mean
they work with multiple divisions, but I mean that FBI
and CI are the ones that are like most commonly mentioned.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah, I mean, anyway, let's we'll go back to there.
So he meets doctor Sidney Gottlieb, who ends up heading
Project MK Ultra and Gottlieb h he sticks white sticks
in Gotlieb's mind because, in his words, he has the
(37:25):
look of a man who will do anything to not
do anything.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
I've had many bosses that look like that.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yeah, and so he's essentially like, Oh, this dude just
wants to fucking do Did.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
You call them white sticks the THC cigarettes?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
No?
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Oh, sounded like you said he stuck the white sticks
in his head, And I'm like, white say that's that'd
be a clever name for THHC cigarettes.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
He stuck the white sticks in his head. I don't
remember that portion of the podcast.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Okay, anyway, I've had an energy drink. I could be
hearing things.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Yeah, or he's gaslighting Oh, it never happened, or you're
gaslighting me and saying I said it and it never.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
I'll gaslight you over some cereal later.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Oh, gaslight me harder.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
That is not a joke against anyone who has been
gas lit. I have also been gaslated as a horrible
experience narcissists.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Really, no, no, no, no. Anyhow, during the OS, his
time in the OSS, after his time at the Conference
of Drug Terror, he kind of ends up being a
very weird war instinct, like he travels all over the
(38:47):
world during the war working on the opium trade and
the THHC like the cannabis trade out of Turkey and
modern day India and oh goodness, Calcutta to be precise.
(39:09):
As a matter of fact, there's a couple of interesting
stories about this. He did bust a couple of opium
rings during this time, one of which was located in Butte, Oklahoma,
which there's nothing in Butte. I don't know what was
doing opium in Butte, Oklahoma.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
It really weirds me out that I've heard of Butte,
Oklahoma before.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
I have two and I think it's because that's where
Jesse not Jesse Jackson, no, Billy the Kid. That is
where Billy the Kid supposedly buried his treasure or his
hoard was in Butte, Oklahoma.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
I'm pretty sure I know it from reading Jillian flynn novels.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
She sets a lot of her stuff in the Midwest.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
I don't know who Jillian Flynn is.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
She's a really great author.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
No, it's a dark and twisty shit.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Oh that's nice. Yeah, well you can just read history
for that.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
No, got Margaret out to summarize it for me.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
There you go, just listen to hankin John Green. They'll
tell you everything you really need to know. So anyway,
baut Oklahoma. It sounds like to me actually, because around
this time he was also recently divorced from his first wife.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
He got married, he did, I forgot to mention that,
but well, he said his wife donated a lot of
his diaries, So clearly he got married at some point.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Second wife donated a lot of his diaries. His first
wife left him after three years because of in her words,
mental anguish and physical deprivation. In other words, he didn't
fuck her.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
He had a soft gurkic.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
He did not want to make.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Sex with her, mushy girkin.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
It was a mush Maybe that's why his name is
Moshi Pickles. They were like, oh no, he can't get
it up, all right, white dude, your name's Moshi Pickles.
Now he is during World War two. He's traveling all
over the world, having all these weird interactions and making
all these weird contacts with the drug community. And he
(41:25):
is also while he's out there, he's looking for a
truth serum for the oss for doctor Gottlieb. Because doctor
Gottlieb can't go out into the world. He has to
stay in the United States. So we're back. Who So
(41:50):
it's World War two. We are following our anti hero,
the honorable mister Pool, honorable mister Poole, mister White, throughout
the Europe and into Calcutta, where he makes his biggest
(42:12):
bust of the entire war, where he chases down an
old man in the street, punches him, holds him down,
and shoots him in the head.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
That doesn't really sound like an anti hero. That just
sounds like an asshole.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
It was kind of lucky because it was a Japanese spy,
so he got a little lucky. Apparently he knew a
little bit of Japanese from his days in the Chinese mafia, which, yes,
it seems kind of racist, but apparently he figured, well,
(42:55):
they all kind of sound the same in his report,
is what he said, So he didn't gin yes, most pickles.
He didn't really know Japanese. He could say a few
phrases in Chinese and was like, eh, it's all the same.
So he got of looked out there there's also a
(43:15):
really good chance that it was not a Japanese spy,
and he lied and it was just some old man
in Calcutta. Because a lot of the people that he
interviewed afterwards, were like, well, we never we didn't think
he was a spy. He was just the kind old
man that worked down the street. It's very crazy that
(43:35):
he's a spy once again, asshole, Yeah, tegrity so. And
throughout all this time he's still taking drugs actively most
assholes do to also yes, and also to try to
decide which one's going to be best for a truth serum.
(43:59):
At one point he decides that he wants to do
kind of a fun experiment, so he doses six OSS
officers and six soldiers while they're waiting in line to
get into the Belmont Hotel for a party. And apparently
it did not go well.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
I mean most of the time when you non consensually
dose people, it doesn't go well.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
He's also like he's got this obsession with giving people
massive amounts of THHC.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
I mean just well, yeah, he's got to see what
the maximum strength. Actually, this is probably the minimum strengths, right,
or just maximum sadistic strengths.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
He also got into mescaline for a while from distilling peyote.
That was harder for him to get because you had
to talk to Native Americans.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
It also is a longer process.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Yes, and you can't make as munchy. Well, you can
synthesize mescaline, but I don't know if they knew how.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
This was the fifties. They didn't have read.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
It yet, right, I can't just look up mescal and production.
One of the officers ended up taking a ton of
the Truth Sir home for some at home testing. This
did also not go well because he thought it was
a fun, cool party trick to spike his punch bowl
with THHC and then serve it to people unknowingly, and
(45:26):
a lot of people had weird, weird events happened to
them in the during World War Two because of this,
where they would go to this high up officers parties
and get drugged in the punch and they're probably also
drunk at the same time.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
So America great, it's so great.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
So great. After the war, he ends up being sent
right back to the Bureau of Narcotics after the OSS
because the OSS is dissolved post World War two, because
we were like, we don't we don't need a spy agency.
We're friends with everybody. And then.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
They ran out of drugs.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yeah, Cold War happened. We're in a recession guys, and
he ends up getting tangled up in two very odd
almost conspiracy theories at this time. One of them is
that he kind of set up a very famous movie
(46:37):
star at the time by essentially doing a no knock
raid on their mansion and finding with air quotes, a
completely clean and unused heroin pipe in their bathroom, not
saying that they weren't doing heroin. Maybe they could, maybe
(47:00):
they didn't. I don't know, but it seems real weird that,
like it just never fully worked out, and the guy
ended up getting released like two days later.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Who was the actor, It is not specified reacted.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
Yes, it was very redacted in all the FBI papers,
so of course it was. And maybe, hey, if I
can get a hold of his personal notes, it's probably
in there, come on, Stanford. So then the next thing
that he did was he got shipped out to help
(47:42):
with the Kethalver Committee to investigate organized crime in interstate commerce.
And there's a problem with this, well.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Oh now there's a problem. Has it been a problem
this whole time?
Speaker 2 (48:00):
He really has, But he is connected to all the
like that's how he gets his drugs, is the interstate
drug crime syndicates for the most part. And so in
the memo that went back with him after he got
(48:26):
deposed off of this board, he got sent back to
the Bureau of Narcotics with a note that mister White
displayed none of the characteristics of a competent narcotics agent
and he was being sent back for his quote, very
(48:50):
poor performance.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
This dude is just very poor performance all around.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Yeah, he's not he's not dead.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
In the government. In life, Yeah yeah, he I mean
not bad at drugging people. That seems to be his
strong suit that he should mention in job interviews.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
It's also like nineteen forty seven and like no one
knows about drugs like to the same extent like compared
to now. So it's like, if you're a gangster talking
to your hookup at the Bureau of Narcotics who you
are selling drugs to, you don't really think to be like,
I wonder if he's now dosing my cigarettes with THHC
(49:33):
so he can get me to talk, because in your mind,
it's like, why would he waste the THHC he's buying
from me.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
That is the level of paranoia that I like inherited
in my DNA. It's very true, you've seen my paranoia.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Oh yeah, it's the rules. Got to follow the rules.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
Not just the rules, okay, just the rules.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
So after these two, uh, just very obvious shows of corruption, Gottlieb,
the person who is running MK Ultra or is starting
to run MK Ultra because it really hasn't started yet,
gets in touch with him and is like, you, you're the
(50:17):
perfect amount of America and incompetent.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Well, that would just be America.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Right, There's so many things that fall under that title,
the perfect combination of America. And I don't give a fuck.
I get to do peyot once again.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
America.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
Yes, I'll do anything for America. So he gets invited
to join the CIA in nineteen fifty one.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
And his girkin got hard for the first time.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
He was definitely a girker, and he was essentially brought
in to help them test drugs because they were not
doing a great job of it. And he is going
to help Sydney Gottlieb revolutionize the world of kidnapping innocent
(51:11):
civilians off the street and locking them into secret safe
houses and drugging them until they give up all their deepest,
darkest secrets.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
Please tell me this is how we get to the
Gayway tapes.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
Well, I you know, I haven't connected them yet.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
Because I have a serious gurgan for the Gayway tapes.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
I am. I'm the Gateway tapes are going to happen,
but I feel like I have to do like since
I've started on MK Ultra, like I have to finish
MK Ultra. So it might be next year before we
get to the because Jesus, there is a lot of
(51:53):
shit about MK Ultra, like it's it's crazy, but because
like Sidney Gottlieb, the guy who runs it, when it
starts getting shut down, when they kind of start realizing,
like it doesn't matter how much LSD you give somebody
(52:13):
like spoilers, spoilers, Drugging people with LSD to the point
of psychosis doesn't get them to tell you where the
bombs are. It gets them to have psychosis. God, I
know what that's like, right, and so especially if you don't, they.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
Know it like bombs aren't real in psychosis. Guys like.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
To give a brief like description of what's going to
become involved in MK Ultra down the road. It's very
much like, oh, we just locked this person in a
room for seventy seven days with no stimulus, a single
light bulb on, and they are not allowed to talk,
see here, or do any thing. However, we have been
(53:02):
dosing them with LSD every day for those seventy seven days.
We're seeing progress. And by progress they mean that they
smoothed his frontal lobe. And that guy's crime was he
was at a club and got yoinked. You just got yoinked.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
Sometimes, yay for my paranoia. Yeah, more thing I get
to be afraid of.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
There's probably not any of that going on now. They
just probably experiment on illegal immag not illegal immigrants, people
trying to cross the border that get put into concentration
camps at the border, because oh, let's just put it
(53:59):
out there is going to be a lot of displaced
and disenfranchised people getting taken advantage of all over the world.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
Let me guess that's the part two I get to
look forward to.
Speaker 2 (54:14):
Well, that's like part two through ten. It doesn't get happier,
It gets funnier a lot of times. Because in the
next episode of Dragon ball Z, we're gonna talk a
lot about how LSD got injected into the culture of
(54:34):
the CIA and what that fucking did to them because
it changed every single person in there. Because spoilers, you'll
have to tune in next week on dragon ball Z.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
Not really dragon ball Z. We are not affiliated with them.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
No, that's owned by Akira Toriyama, So please support the
official release Showy Animation, Fuci TV and a Curatriama.
Speaker 1 (55:09):
I don't know what I'm gonna do with you.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
Oh, I know what you're gonna do with me.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
Ten years into this and I'm still like, Wow, I
just come up with weird shit, and I love you
for it.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Also, if you made it this far high, Levi, it's
nice to see. It's nice to that you're like the
one person listening to this podcast. Because I took like
two months off. Shit got weird. I mean it was
also just I started studying a different topic and I
(55:41):
kind of got sucked into MK Ultra and then I
got sucked into this and it was like.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
When does it stopt?
Speaker 2 (55:49):
At some point I have to stop writing and start
fucking putting out some material, and I just kept finding
more material and more and more and more. Did Laura
can attest There are just papers scattered around.
Speaker 1 (56:08):
I mean, there's always papers scattered around your office, So
it doesn't really look much different. But when you asked
if you could have a binder out of my little collection,
thanks to having a rising and moon virgo sign, I
have lots of binders.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:22):
So when you when you ask for that and the
semester was over, I knew something was up.
Speaker 2 (56:26):
Yeah, that was the other things I had finals and
that just mess fucks you up for weeks on end.
But anyway, we're gonna call this one an entire pod.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
And enj'y the cast of pod.
Speaker 2 (56:40):
Yes, you want to plug your plugables.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
God, I don't have any pluggables.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
Yes you do, Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (56:49):
All right, fine, if you want to find me and
all my weird twisted shit, go to my beacons dot
AI forward slash hnbane circle h G N B A
n E circle, and there you will find my alter
ego that talks a lot about.
Speaker 2 (57:03):
WITCHI shit got them curses.
Speaker 1 (57:07):
I have so many curses. I'm on a twin flame
rap right now.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
Yeah. And you also, you're just that curse person on TikTok.
Speaker 1 (57:17):
I am at that curse person.
Speaker 2 (57:19):
That's right, you're famous on TikTok.
Speaker 1 (57:21):
I'm not famous on TikTok.
Speaker 2 (57:22):
If you've had over a million views on any video.
You're famous on TikTok.
Speaker 1 (57:25):
That's only happened a couple times.
Speaker 2 (57:27):
Yeah, it's two million people.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
I was only added to one YouTube compilation list that
I know about, which was really weird.
Speaker 2 (57:34):
To find out that would be very odd. And I
am Ben Malick. This is the Alphabet Boys podcast. And
I don't know what to close out with here because
I would say it gets better, but it really doesn't.
My dudes, it's Wednesday. Wait, now you have to say
(57:58):
it while I'm doing this.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
Your girket leads the way.
For those that don't know, I'm squinting at him.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, I don't know why I'm.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Because I know your potential.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
That's why I'm pursuing my potential. Oh my gosh, are
you I don't know? Welcome to the Alphabet Boys podcast.
My name is Ben Malick.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Don't say your full name.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I always people gotta know. They're gonna know.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
They can look me up, look me up on Twitter,
tweet me. I'm on there at least once a week.
That's just way too much.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
So they're like seven times a day.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I should be. So this episode of The Alphabet Boys,
we're going to stay with the CIA. In what turned
out to be probably the next year of episodes, we're
going to start going over the wonderful world of Project
(01:05):
mk Ultra, also known as Project Artichoke, also known as
like fifty other subprojects. But today we are starting with
Operation Midnight Climax.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
The way that you were like watching me for my
reaction for that one.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, Like, I actually.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Don't know about Midnight Climax. Midnight Climax, which sounds like
a thing I would like to participate in.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
It is by far the best named operation of all time.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
I mean compared to Operation Artichoke, Like, yeah, that was
just like some dude, probably British.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I'm thinking British.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
H not art to Choke.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
It's something weird.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Caperclip was definitely British.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
That was the name. Yeah, I mean, which we'll talk
about the OSS two, which was the CIA for the
World War two, and or we had a CIA.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Can I just say, I'm so happy that you introduced
yourself and not me.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well, you're always here. I figured you would introduce yourself.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Well, when you keep talking, I can't introduce myself.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I'm a talker. So this is my lovely co host.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, I'm married to this dude.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yes, And they also have a name.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
You can call me Laura.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Oh, we can call her Laura. Don't call me late
for Dinna. So we're going to start this one off
after a good four minutes of meandering on a little
bit of a dramatic reading, and here we go. In
(02:48):
the early nineteen fifties, there was a man. He is
sitting in a New York City apartment. A THHC soaked
cigarette burns between his lips. The smoke from the ember
on the end of the unfiltered GI Choker journeyed up
to the ceiling, already full of smoke. Around him lay
roughly one hundred thousand dollars worth of the latest and
(03:08):
spycraft gadgets, massive audio recorders that could record continuously for
twenty four hours straight without having to change the magnetic
reels that stored the voice records of the man's subjects.
The man sits and watches through a two way mirror
as a pair of CIA hired prostitutes render a very
high priced service to a local banking magnate. The THHC
(03:32):
is starting to make the man drowsy. He realized he
smoked more than he thought. He has mumbled under his
breath shit, sitting straight up and checking his watch one am,
another five hours before he could get any sleep. He
looked through his options. Coffee. No, coffee had lost all
of its waking power on him during the war while
(03:53):
he was in Turkey. Alcohol. No, that wouldn't do it
for tonight. It would just make him more sleepy. So
it came down to two options. A dose of go pills,
a derivative of methanphetamine, or and much more fun in
his view, a double dose of pure LSD. He smiles,
picks up the dropper of clear liquid and measured out
(04:15):
his doses, sat back and got ready for his own
private show. Or else Can I get paid to do this?
He smiles and thinks, looking back at his personal peep show.
The ladies knew what to do. They were two of
the best that he had access to. They knew what
to do to the banker, and he was already and
he had already drunk his dose of LSD when the
(04:38):
ladies had first brought him into the observation apartment. They
are really working him over tonight, he thought, while he
watched the banker, now masked, gagged and handcuffed to the headboard,
was showing the first signs of the LSD kicking in.
He had no idea what was going on. No one
had told him he was taking LSD. As a matter
of fact, in the early nineteen fifth no one would
(05:01):
know what LSD was if you told them, you gave
it to them. The women went to work on the
banker in ernest, driving him towards orgasm, then asking impersonal
questions and keeping him from climaxing until he would answer
their questions. Just another Friday night, the man thought, settling
back into his chair and starting the video camera so
he could review this session again and again and again.
(05:27):
The voyeur of our story is named George H. White,
a CIA agent that had failed his way up the
federal ladder of rink until he was a lead agent
on the project we are going to be talking about today,
Midnight Climax, which is one of the many, many projects
which fall under the umbrella of the massive Project MK Ultra,
(05:48):
which was a mind control and behavior control experiment conducted
for roughly fifteen years during the CIA from nineteen roughly
fifty until nineteen sixty five.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I really missed my opportunity there, right. Did you write that?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:08):
This is what I mean when I say you're a
really good fucking writer, like Jesus Christ. Why do you
not listen to me? I mean, you know you fucking
wrote that.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, I knocked it out last night.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
I thought it was Benjamin. I'm the one trying to
be an author and you're over here just diddling away.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Well, you know, I was just trying to get in
the head of George.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Well you did.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Who's a horrible sycophant. I don't throw this word around
a lot, but he's quite perverted. And not in a
like this.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Should also be called way not midnight climax, but midnight edging.
He well, everybody climate, So, how do you fail your
way up the CIA ladder to be able to take
LSD and watch people have sex?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Oh? Are gonna discuss that?
Speaker 1 (07:02):
But I would. I would feel like that's a pretty
decent promotion. Not failing your way.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Oh no, he totally failed his way up. He got. Well,
we'll go over that now because that's my next little
area of slides.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
For those that don't know, I'm squinting at him, Well,
I don't know why I'm because I know your potential.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
That's why I'm pursuing my potential. Oh my gosh, are
you I don't know. Supposedly, that's what my professors keep
telling me. So. George H. Whye born six twenty two,
nineteen oh seven in Los Angeles, California, Well, actually just
South Los Angeles. And we all know what that means.
(07:46):
He's a fucking cancer Gemini cusp and there's nothing worse
in life.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
His birthday's coming up next week weeks from today.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Maybe we could release the final episode on his birthday,
just out of memorial.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
That is ambitious, but Oh, he's very ambitious.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
The early life of Colonel George H. White is a
pretty big empty space. He never really talked about it,
which is odd because he seemed to talk about everything,
and he also just lied about everything he ever did,
which is one of the weird portions of his life.
Is very hard to tell what he was doing. What
(08:26):
we do know is that he attended Oregon State College
from nineteen twenty four to nineteen twenty six, and he
got a two year degree in journalism and got hired
by a small San Francisco newspaper as a beat writer.
There's also stories about this time that he worked for
the Red Cross for a short period of time, but
it's very convoluted and the sources that I could find
(08:48):
that were actually reputable.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Is this the dude you're trying to get like the
diaries for.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yes, I'm trying. Hey, I know you're listening. Stanford Special
Collections Library. I have ten boxes of this man's diary
with pictures of people that he was not related to
in it, that was all donated by his wife in
like nineteen seven.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Heure's probably from a two way mirror, apparently.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Probably I think they were for the like some of
the prostitutes, I mean his him and his second wife
for swingers, and a bunch of other stuff too, But
we'll get there. So, yeah, give me, give me, gim me,
give me, give me, gimme. Works for a small San
Francisco newspaper as a beat writer, which he was horrible at.
So he got fired from that job, and then gets
(09:32):
hired at a smaller paper that's kind of tabloidy. But
he also doesn't last long there either. So he decided
that he wanted to go on to you know, the
normal fallback of any journalist, uh, to apply for the FBI.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
They didn't really have like podcasting back then, right, It.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Wasn't like, well, I'm not a I can't journal any more.
I guess a podcast.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
He didn't have Twitter, No, so what's the next best thing,
the FBI?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Right, let's go be an FBI agent. He had no
relevant experience for it. Most of them don't, and he
got rejected immediately.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Most of them do.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
And so at this point the person that interviewed him
and put him through his tests and everything, which we
don't have the name of, and I wish I did,
because I love how he described his application. Quote he
possessed none of the qualities that the Federal Investigation Agency
looks for in an agent to execute their missions. Well,
(10:41):
essentially saying you're short, you're fat, and you are dumb,
and we don't want you to be in here. You
can't sit with us exactly. However, through his CD connections
from being a tabloid writer, as they do, he did
get a job as a as a border patrol agent.
(11:01):
Oh god, now much like, now.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Which border are we talking about? Oh he lives in
southern California, so it's not Canada.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
No good.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
That was a horrible Canadian accent.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, So once again, there's not a
lot about his time in the US Border Patrol. But
we can just assume that as now he would be
a huge racist cunt, because you have to be one too.
I mean, he was later in life, so it kind
of matches.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
This really makes me wonder what they would have said
about me if I had actually applied to Secret Service.
Not like me being a racist cunt.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
You'd be in Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
But like when I was like looking at being a
honey pot in my early ty because I had nothing
better to do.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I just remember the story of your sister who had
just had your nephew at the time, who was like
one was was he?
Speaker 1 (11:59):
He was not even one? And she was like, do
you want me just to tell him you're dead and
his aunt is dead? Is that what she wants? That's
what's gonna happen. If you go in this secret service.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
And it's like, was it Secret Service or CIA?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
It was Secret Service? Oh well, I was gonna apply.
Well I was my starting point was applying to Secret
Service because I had connections.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Oh yeah, that's true. And I mean, to be honest,
like you'd probably be working a desk job for the
majority of the time you're there.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
I don't know. I'm racially ambiguous enough that they could
have stuck me in many countries.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
You're very pretty, and you are very racially ambiguous. But
it would be a while before they would have to like,
you don't go home, you have no home.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
I mean, they'd have to make me a honeypot pretty quick,
because like my clock was ticking soon as I hit
twenty six. I'm pretty sure that would have been the cutoff.
Like nope, she's too old.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
I mean, I don't mean that's.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
When my joints started failing.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Anyways, you you continue to look ten years younger than
you are.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
My joints are ten years older than I, if not more.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Think of the think of the healthcare you could have
gotten in that foreign country. Probably you'd probably be you know,
your joints have probably all worked.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Oh God, what would have happened if I was a
honeypot and then they discovered I had schizophrenia? That probably
would have Oh that would have been a story there.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
There would have just put you in the LSD, just
dumped you in the tank, been like, oh no, you
suffered a psychotic break and got thrown off the top
of a ten story psychiatric word with three bullet holes
in your chest. But it was suicide. We're going to
get to that one.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
There's there's an alternate reality of me that lived that life.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Oh, no, doubt it. You would be a good secret
agent as long as everyone told you you were following
the right rules.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
But I also can't keep a secret.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
That is an issue. I mean, there's a place for
you in the CIA.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Tell me about this place.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
That place is the We need someone to relay information
that they think is a secret to the enemy. But
feel bad enough genuinely bad enough by telling them that
they believe them.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yet I would have been ballerd interrogation.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
You would have We all disassociate in our own ways.
Yours is inflicting pain on other people. So after not
getting the FBI position in nineteen thirty four, he joined
up with the Border Patrol, thinking it would be a
great stepping stone to his dream job of being an
FBI agent. It wasn't. The FBI doesn't really recruit Border
(14:49):
Patrol agents because they are usually the guys that get
rejected from the FBI. It's kind of what. It's the
bottom of the shitty racist ladder. After a year of
being in the desert being a racist cunt, George decided
that being this hot was not for him long term.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
So it's a dry heat.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
It's a heat. I get the distinct feeling that he
sat in an office somewhere with a fan blowing on
him because he's not an athletic human like. He is
described as five seven two and thirty pounds and only
intimidating when sitting down, So the second he stood up,
(15:30):
he just like somehow his body turned into an amorphous blob.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Something tells me he quit because he didn't get promoted
to having a fan, possibly.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Like he didn't rate a fan in the nineteen thirties.
His next move was being able to transfer to the
position of Special Agent of the Bureau of Narcotics. Now
this is where he really starts to shine.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
So the BNA, I don't know if that's what they
called it, bo In bo in.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Bond, Bureau of Narcotics. So, and this is where he
kind of starts to get introduced to the world of drugs. Drugs.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
They all said it was going to be in high school,
but really it's the government.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
It really, man, it's so much the government, Like we
wouldn't have LSD. There was one source for LSD in
the fifties and it was the Swedish guy that vented
it because he's like, yeah, I'm not showing this to anybody,
and then the well, we'll get to it. See how
he bought a bunch of it anyhow. So George White,
(16:42):
now a fully fledged member of the narcotics community once again,
has a lot of connections to really CDs people and
he decides, well, probably the best thing for me to
do is to go undercover, because you know, nothing says
I'm an under I'm not an under I'm not a
(17:03):
narcotics agent, like being a rotund, short dude that's very,
very white whose last name is white. But he does.
He actually gets in with a Chinese syndicate who's smuggling
primarily heroin and opium.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
I was about to say, like left hard left there, okay.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Right, But they love him, They absolutely dorm because he
has no fucking morals. He's just like, I don't I'm
just here to like they know he works for the
Bureau of Narcotics, Like you can't not know, and so
he essentially is on the take from them. And it's
(17:44):
not explicitly like in a lot of his the stories
about him, but if you read the reports that the
FBI kept gathering on him because they're like this fuck,
or what's he even doing?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Like when the FBI doesn't know what you're doing?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Right to some shit? Right, So this is not a
huge like event in his life. But the reason I
bring it up, I mean, it's it's pretty impressive, Number one,
I got to put it out there. The dude like
was impressively a moral Like he didn't care. There was
no point at which he was like this is probably
(18:23):
in general bad for people. He was just focused on
is this good for me? Well, I can do lots
of heroin, so it's probably good for me. So that's
just kind of how he worked around his life. You
know what it's time for? And who also is amoral
and is really only looking out for themselves?
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Capitalism?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Capitalism. Let's listen to some ads.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
And funded by the FBI.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Probably hello, Jonathan, my FBI agent. That one's for you.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Not always of making the world reluctantly go round.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
And I.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Because very slow and painful death.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Speeding up though?
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Is it? Is it? You know? So?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Anyway, the reason I bring up all of this. You
know him in the Chinese mafia is because he has
the best best name in the Chinese mafia. His cover
name is Moshi Pickles Moshi or Mushy Moshi. Oh I
(19:42):
s h e Pickles Mosh Pickles.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Okay, I have no Maybe he was hung like a gurkin.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I don't have any details on his penis one of
the reasons I want his journals. I need to know
dick size and quality. Quality Yeah, well, I mean does
not mean quality you can have what.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
About this dude says he has a good quality anything?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Nothing at all at all, because it's like he's just
he's just a horrible person. Like his entire career path
is that I could fuck with them.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Like in my personal experience, the like worst of the
worst had also the worst quality in bed. It's true,
like there was no balance, there was no like, well,
at least they're good at No.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
No, it's just all bad all the time.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, Like anyone who's that selfish definitely doesn't know how
to treat me other than like I'm a cheat coat
on Xbox.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Where's the D? Where's the D or the C?
Speaker 1 (20:52):
It would be the C.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
It would be the C.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
They knew where the D was and it was not
going anywhere near the b.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Oh Okay, So back into his life as a narcotics agent,
and this is where he kind of starts to make
a name for himself because i mean, come on, He
does kind of infiltrate the Chinese mafia, which is pretty cool,
but it's the biggest thing that he gets at this
point is a lot once again CD connections to the
(21:26):
drug world, right, and so he is trying to build
a case against a member of the Italian mob that's
moving in from the East Coast into the West Coast
and obviously the Chinese mafia doesn't want that.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Oh god, what if it's my family.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
There is no names attached because or to the to
the gangsters that I'm about to talk about, Like, I
don't have any names for him.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
But possibly, I mean I can probably can to probably.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Could the story because he actually has a couple of
friends in the Italian mom who are actually pretty pretty
high up like West Coast guys. And he keeps he's
talking to a British special agent that he's somehow talked to,
(22:23):
and they're like and then because the British have an
actual intelligence service, the America doesn't really at this stot.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
We're talking about like the I six, this is pre m.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I six, okay, but it is the British.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
I knew that what the six was.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
I'm not really you know what, I know nothing about British.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
I only know what killing Eve. That's how I know
about it.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I just like, I think this is more like Scotland
Yard time period, like.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Everyone has a secret British agent that they could be
in with.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Oh yeah, like someone else.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Even the cigarette man had one, which is for what
are you ever reason? When you opened this? I was like,
he's talking about the cigarette men from Mexico.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Well, he definitely doesn't shoot Kennedy because he's a real
bad shot. So they're talking about like, man, wouldn't it
be great to have a truth serum. This is in
once Again nineteen thirty five because it's before he applies
(23:27):
to the FBI again and gets rejected again. But there
are charm well he never raised it to the FBI
spoiler alert, And so he's talking to the British guy
and he's like, well, you know, and this he doesn't
actually say this to the British man, but his thought
process is, well, I'm a narcotics agent. I know where
(23:50):
lots of narcotics are. I can just get narcotics and
test it on people. So you can see why he
is becoming a model citizen very early in his career,
before he's even being told to, you know, kidnap people
off the street and give them lsd s. Are you
thinking that way?
Speaker 1 (24:10):
I need to know which person called him a person
with a lot of integrity, because he sounds like the
person that gets called someone with a lot of integrity.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
We will get there, yep.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
See, because there's always someone there, yep.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
I mean the person that says he has lots of integrity,
in the next sentence talks about like, but we really
shouldn't put him in charge of anything that could kill someone,
and then immediately puts him in charge of Project Climax
or Project Midnight Climax. So what he realizes is he
(24:45):
needs to talk to some of the chemists down at
his good old narcotics buddies lab chemists, and he's like,
I want liquid THHC because I want to test it
on a gangster. Literally says that walks into a federal
building and tells them I need liquid THHC so I
(25:09):
can test it on somebody, and right, and like, think
about that, just like walking into your work and being
so like middle class white man American that you're like, man,
I know this is the federal government and this is
already an illegal drug. I need a vial of liquid
(25:30):
THHC so that I can drug people unknowingly. And they're like, yeah, sure,
go ahead. Here. I think he started off with a lot.
It was a large amount of liquid THHC. Now the
problem is he doesn't fucking know how much THHG to
give somebody. He doesn't know any anything about it and like,
(25:53):
no one has smoked liquid THHC before that he can
talk to. So he decides the best way to get
his gangster friend to open up is to dose his
cigarettes with liquid THHC, which becomes the go to way
(26:16):
to get THHC inside of somebody as quickly as possible.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
I'd really like to know the paper they were using,
to know that, like the cigarettes still lit after you
put liquid THHC in it.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
I you know, I think it was.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
I mean, this was before filters were like a real
popular thing.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, so I think what they would.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Do is kiuse my brain to be like, put it
in the filter. It's a sponge, right, But no, apparently not.
What they would do is they would he had hand
rolled cigarettes, and so he would put the THHC on
the tobacco and then roll them up.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
That's what I figured. But still, like the tobacco would
be damp, and so I'm.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Like, I think he would dry, Like I don't know
the entire process, but it worked.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
I'm just imagining someone.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Like, it's just a wet out.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
It's fine, it's taking.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Longer than I thought, just waving it, maybe toasted a little.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
They still won't give me a fucking fan. So he
doses them and I hoof, Now you might be thinking
I've been high, and maybe you haven't, but if you have,
you know that. Like, it's not a truth serum.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Like I'm all seen the nineties commercial of like don't
smoke pot with the dude flattened into.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
The cow, right, Like, it's not going to make you
like divulge your deepest market secrets. It's probably gonna make
you want to eat and lay down and go.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
To sleep and make you divulge your deepest market secrets food.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
It's very true, and so it's like it doesn't really
make any sense. But let me explain how much THCHC
he pumped into this poor man.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Oh dere.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
He dosed thirty cigarettes with roughly fifteen grams of liquid THC,
and the man smoked all of them over the course
of four hours.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
I need like an equivalency meter here.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
So a gram of pure thchc is like a whole cart.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
So he essentially smoked four hundred carts in four hours.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
No one gram? Uh one cart?
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Right? So fifteen carts, oh sorry, spread over okay, so
fifteen carts over okay?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, still massive.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
It was like four hundred carts like your lungs with
just k yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
You wouldn't even have like no, I mean, they'll find
out later what happens when you do that, But no
fifteen grams of liquid to see. Over the course of
four hours, the man should be his brain should have
melted out of his nose. So he got high as
a fucking kite, higher than giraffe pussy. And the gangster
(29:26):
had allegedly never done any drugs before, and he didn't
know that he was getting drugged.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
I'd be thinking I was having a brain aneurysm.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Exactly, And enough THHD went into this man to get
the entirety of burning man ripped like high. So he
just started talking about everything. There was nothing that the
man did not talk about. And so George White is like, look,
yes I did, right, I am I I Narcotics Agent
(30:00):
White have complete I've busted it wide open. We have
a truth serum.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Guys, we're gonna name it Moshi Pickles.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Right, this blend is Moshi Pickles. So about this time,
we're going to skip a couple of years because nothing
really interesting happens until World War two breaks out there.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
There is usually a dip after the eureka moment, you
just don't get as high as that for a while.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah, I mean, I mean he does continue continue to
drug people against their will.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Well, yeah, he's not going to stop. He's not like,
oh it worked, No, that this is like his new kink.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
And speaking of kinks, he does use it very regularly himself.
Of course, he does. All of the drugs that he
gives other people, he uses first. And in his words,
well you know, that's just that's what all any good
doctor would do, is to try the drugs first, he says,
while mainlining heroin.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
You opened the whole thing, this whole podcast with his
cigarette THHC Right, so THHC cigarette. Yeah that sounds better.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Sorry, the cigarettes. So at this point, he has gotten
rejected by the FBI twice, worked in the worst federal
law enforcement agency, and got bumped up to the second
worst but probably most corrupt agency, which is the narcotic
the Bureau of Narcotics.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
It's always the middle child.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
It's always the middle child around. When the war breaks out,
he it gets really weird because he somehow gets in
the OSS, which is the World War two equivalent of
the CIA, right, and he gets he goes to a
(32:03):
meeting in Canada with like he's just like a lackey there,
Like he's just there to fucking carry people's bags and
take notes.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Pretty much Canada, Canada.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
A lot of the stuff that America doesn't want to
talk about happened in Canada. A No one suspects they're
a great white North of being evil. This is Americans.
We're like, I have universal health care. How can they
be bad? It's not good.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
It's the middle child, right.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
And so while he's up there at this conference, they
have this, you know, meeting of all of the minds,
scientific minds of the time in espionage to talk about
a truth serum, which they're all looking for because you
just torturing people really doesn't work that good.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
All these great people with integrity aren't spilling the beans.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Right, they got them Integrity's damn it. Germans and so
the British were like, well, we've got some stuff we
use for knockout drugs, which is just like a derivative
of oh god, what's the I forgot to write it.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Shit is about rhypnal.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
No, it's not hypnol. Although we get to rhypnol eventually,
the stuff that you good lord, you aspirate it into
people's lungs like.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
It's it was nitrous oxide.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
No, it was like the biggest trope of the nineteen
nineties of getting kidnapped. Someone would come up with a
rag and put it over your mouth.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Oh my god, why nip and you breathe it in.
I'm like, cyanide, it's not sign right.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Oh my gosh, Wow, this is bad. Guys.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Maybe an AD will tell us.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Maybe an AD will tell us that's entirely possible. As
a matter of fact, let's see if these ads can
actually tell us this while my ADHD brain won't let
me move on from not being able to find this
little marker. Thanks Scott.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Form.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, no, every I kept seeing the scene from a spenter,
a pet detective where he's chasing down all of the
Dolphins football players and chloroforming them so he can.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Well that's a core memory that just came back right
to the front of my brain.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
And he like sprints down and catches the dude and
jumps on his back and like, oh, I just got
to sleep. Yes, yeah, that's that's exactly what I'm picturing here.
So the a derivative chloroform. They're like just like three
drops and a drink in there. They're out, but they're out.
You can't question.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Them when someone is incapacitated. They're not exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Vocal, right. It's just kind of like speaking as some.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
One who's been under anesthesia many times.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yes, been there.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Except rufi that one time someone tried to roofie me.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Well when you're when you're on antipsychotics, you can't get rufy.
So yeah, and so he was like, well, I've got
something way better than that. And he literally like whips
up a presentation in twenty four hours about how everything
he's done with THHC, which apparently the British had not
(35:31):
really been using because they were like, I don't know,
that's what the Indian smoke.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
We imagine if he had a power point like the
graphics he'd use. I wonder what Slyde transitions he would
use to be like, look the Wonders of THHC.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
He would do the spinny like the nineteen nineties, spinning
in from the background and spinning out.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
See. I feel like that would be his intro and
his exit. But the media, like the middle of the
graphics would be that weird like pixelated wood where like
pops up in little squares.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Ooh, that's a good one, like flies in flies out. Yeah. Yeah.
We go into this portion of his life where he
kind of makes he's starting to make some really high
up connections, and while he's at this conference, he meets
someone who is very important not only to the rest
(36:24):
of this story, but for all of m k Ultra
going forward.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
See this is where it's haunding. Like an X Files episode,
it always starts at a convention or conference where they
all gather. I mean, considering X Files is like based
on the CIA. But anyways, is.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
It the CIA? Are the are the agents? What are
they under or do they have a I mean, I know.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
They're in the FI, they're under the FBI, but like
they work with the CIA a lot. Yeah, I mean
they work with multiple divisions, but I mean that FBI
and CI are the ones that are like most commonly mentioned.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah, I mean, anyway, let's we'll go back to there.
So he meets doctor Sidney Gottlieb, who ends up heading
Project MK Ultra and Gottlieb h he sticks white sticks
in Gotlieb's mind because, in his words, he has the
(37:25):
look of a man who will do anything to not
do anything.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
I've had many bosses that look like that.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yeah, and so he's essentially like, Oh, this dude just
wants to fucking do Did.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
You call them white sticks the THC cigarettes?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
No?
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Oh, sounded like you said he stuck the white sticks
in his head, And I'm like, white say that's that'd
be a clever name for THHC cigarettes.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
He stuck the white sticks in his head. I don't
remember that portion of the podcast.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Okay, anyway, I've had an energy drink. I could be
hearing things.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Yeah, or he's gaslighting Oh, it never happened, or you're
gaslighting me and saying I said it and it never.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
I'll gaslight you over some cereal later.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Oh, gaslight me harder.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
That is not a joke against anyone who has been
gas lit. I have also been gaslated as a horrible
experience narcissists.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Really, no, no, no, no. Anyhow, during the OS, his
time in the OSS, after his time at the Conference
of Drug Terror, he kind of ends up being a
very weird war instinct, like he travels all over the
(38:47):
world during the war working on the opium trade and
the THHC like the cannabis trade out of Turkey and
modern day India and oh goodness, Calcutta to be precise.
(39:09):
As a matter of fact, there's a couple of interesting
stories about this. He did bust a couple of opium
rings during this time, one of which was located in Butte, Oklahoma,
which there's nothing in Butte. I don't know what was
doing opium in Butte, Oklahoma.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
It really weirds me out that I've heard of Butte,
Oklahoma before.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
I have two and I think it's because that's where
Jesse not Jesse Jackson, no, Billy the Kid. That is
where Billy the Kid supposedly buried his treasure or his
hoard was in Butte, Oklahoma.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
I'm pretty sure I know it from reading Jillian flynn novels.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
She sets a lot of her stuff in the Midwest.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
I don't know who Jillian Flynn is.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
She's a really great author.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
No, it's a dark and twisty shit.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Oh that's nice. Yeah, well you can just read history
for that.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
No, got Margaret out to summarize it for me.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
There you go, just listen to hankin John Green. They'll
tell you everything you really need to know. So anyway,
baut Oklahoma. It sounds like to me actually, because around
this time he was also recently divorced from his first wife.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
He got married, he did, I forgot to mention that,
but well, he said his wife donated a lot of
his diaries, So clearly he got married at some point.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Second wife donated a lot of his diaries. His first
wife left him after three years because of in her words,
mental anguish and physical deprivation. In other words, he didn't
fuck her.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
He had a soft gurkic.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
He did not want to make.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Sex with her, mushy girkin.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
It was a mush Maybe that's why his name is
Moshi Pickles. They were like, oh no, he can't get
it up, all right, white dude, your name's Moshi Pickles.
Now he is during World War two. He's traveling all
over the world, having all these weird interactions and making
all these weird contacts with the drug community. And he
(41:25):
is also while he's out there, he's looking for a
truth serum for the oss for doctor Gottlieb. Because doctor
Gottlieb can't go out into the world. He has to
stay in the United States. So we're back. Who So
(41:50):
it's World War two. We are following our anti hero,
the honorable mister Pool, honorable mister Poole, mister White, throughout
the Europe and into Calcutta, where he makes his biggest
(42:12):
bust of the entire war, where he chases down an
old man in the street, punches him, holds him down,
and shoots him in the head.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
That doesn't really sound like an anti hero. That just
sounds like an asshole.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
It was kind of lucky because it was a Japanese spy,
so he got a little lucky. Apparently he knew a
little bit of Japanese from his days in the Chinese mafia, which, yes,
it seems kind of racist, but apparently he figured, well,
(42:55):
they all kind of sound the same in his report,
is what he said, So he didn't gin yes, most pickles.
He didn't really know Japanese. He could say a few
phrases in Chinese and was like, eh, it's all the same.
So he got of looked out there there's also a
(43:15):
really good chance that it was not a Japanese spy,
and he lied and it was just some old man
in Calcutta. Because a lot of the people that he
interviewed afterwards, were like, well, we never we didn't think
he was a spy. He was just the kind old
man that worked down the street. It's very crazy that
(43:35):
he's a spy once again, asshole, Yeah, tegrity so. And
throughout all this time he's still taking drugs actively most
assholes do to also yes, and also to try to
decide which one's going to be best for a truth serum.
(43:59):
At one point he decides that he wants to do
kind of a fun experiment, so he doses six OSS
officers and six soldiers while they're waiting in line to
get into the Belmont Hotel for a party. And apparently
it did not go well.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
I mean most of the time when you non consensually
dose people, it doesn't go well.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
He's also like he's got this obsession with giving people
massive amounts of THHC.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
I mean just well, yeah, he's got to see what
the maximum strength. Actually, this is probably the minimum strengths, right,
or just maximum sadistic strengths.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
He also got into mescaline for a while from distilling peyote.
That was harder for him to get because you had
to talk to Native Americans.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
It also is a longer process.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Yes, and you can't make as munchy. Well, you can
synthesize mescaline, but I don't know if they knew how.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
This was the fifties. They didn't have read.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
It yet, right, I can't just look up mescal and production.
One of the officers ended up taking a ton of
the Truth Sir home for some at home testing. This
did also not go well because he thought it was
a fun, cool party trick to spike his punch bowl
with THHC and then serve it to people unknowingly, and
(45:26):
a lot of people had weird, weird events happened to
them in the during World War Two because of this,
where they would go to this high up officers parties
and get drugged in the punch and they're probably also
drunk at the same time.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
So America great, it's so great.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
So great. After the war, he ends up being sent
right back to the Bureau of Narcotics after the OSS
because the OSS is dissolved post World War two, because
we were like, we don't we don't need a spy agency.
We're friends with everybody. And then.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
They ran out of drugs.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yeah, Cold War happened. We're in a recession guys, and
he ends up getting tangled up in two very odd
almost conspiracy theories at this time. One of them is
that he kind of set up a very famous movie
(46:37):
star at the time by essentially doing a no knock
raid on their mansion and finding with air quotes, a
completely clean and unused heroin pipe in their bathroom, not
saying that they weren't doing heroin. Maybe they could, maybe
(47:00):
they didn't. I don't know, but it seems real weird that,
like it just never fully worked out, and the guy
ended up getting released like two days later.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Who was the actor, It is not specified reacted.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
Yes, it was very redacted in all the FBI papers,
so of course it was. And maybe, hey, if I
can get a hold of his personal notes, it's probably
in there, come on, Stanford. So then the next thing
that he did was he got shipped out to help
(47:42):
with the Kethalver Committee to investigate organized crime in interstate commerce.
And there's a problem with this, well.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Oh now there's a problem. Has it been a problem
this whole time?
Speaker 2 (48:00):
He really has, But he is connected to all the
like that's how he gets his drugs, is the interstate
drug crime syndicates for the most part. And so in
the memo that went back with him after he got
(48:26):
deposed off of this board, he got sent back to
the Bureau of Narcotics with a note that mister White
displayed none of the characteristics of a competent narcotics agent
and he was being sent back for his quote, very
(48:50):
poor performance.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
This dude is just very poor performance all around.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Yeah, he's not he's not dead.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
In the government. In life, Yeah yeah, he I mean
not bad at drugging people. That seems to be his
strong suit that he should mention in job interviews.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
It's also like nineteen forty seven and like no one
knows about drugs like to the same extent like compared
to now. So it's like, if you're a gangster talking
to your hookup at the Bureau of Narcotics who you
are selling drugs to, you don't really think to be like,
I wonder if he's now dosing my cigarettes with THHC
(49:33):
so he can get me to talk, because in your mind,
it's like, why would he waste the THHC he's buying
from me.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
That is the level of paranoia that I like inherited
in my DNA. It's very true, you've seen my paranoia.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Oh yeah, it's the rules. Got to follow the rules.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
Not just the rules, okay, just the rules.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
So after these two, uh, just very obvious shows of corruption, Gottlieb,
the person who is running MK Ultra or is starting
to run MK Ultra because it really hasn't started yet,
gets in touch with him and is like, you, you're the
(50:17):
perfect amount of America and incompetent.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Well, that would just be America.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Right, There's so many things that fall under that title,
the perfect combination of America. And I don't give a fuck.
I get to do peyot once again.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
America.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
Yes, I'll do anything for America. So he gets invited
to join the CIA in nineteen fifty one.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
And his girkin got hard for the first time.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
He was definitely a girker, and he was essentially brought
in to help them test drugs because they were not
doing a great job of it. And he is going
to help Sydney Gottlieb revolutionize the world of kidnapping innocent
(51:11):
civilians off the street and locking them into secret safe
houses and drugging them until they give up all their deepest,
darkest secrets.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
Please tell me this is how we get to the
Gayway tapes.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
Well, I you know, I haven't connected them yet.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
Because I have a serious gurgan for the Gayway tapes.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
I am. I'm the Gateway tapes are going to happen,
but I feel like I have to do like since
I've started on MK Ultra, like I have to finish
MK Ultra. So it might be next year before we
get to the because Jesus, there is a lot of
(51:53):
shit about MK Ultra, like it's it's crazy, but because
like Sidney Gottlieb, the guy who runs it, when it
starts getting shut down, when they kind of start realizing,
like it doesn't matter how much LSD you give somebody
(52:13):
like spoilers, spoilers, Drugging people with LSD to the point
of psychosis doesn't get them to tell you where the
bombs are. It gets them to have psychosis. God, I
know what that's like, right, and so especially if you don't, they.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
Know it like bombs aren't real in psychosis. Guys like.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
To give a brief like description of what's going to
become involved in MK Ultra down the road. It's very
much like, oh, we just locked this person in a
room for seventy seven days with no stimulus, a single
light bulb on, and they are not allowed to talk,
see here, or do any thing. However, we have been
(53:02):
dosing them with LSD every day for those seventy seven days.
We're seeing progress. And by progress they mean that they
smoothed his frontal lobe. And that guy's crime was he
was at a club and got yoinked. You just got yoinked.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
Sometimes, yay for my paranoia. Yeah, more thing I get
to be afraid of.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
There's probably not any of that going on now. They
just probably experiment on illegal immag not illegal immigrants, people
trying to cross the border that get put into concentration
camps at the border, because oh, let's just put it
(53:59):
out there is going to be a lot of displaced
and disenfranchised people getting taken advantage of all over the world.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
Let me guess that's the part two I get to
look forward to.
Speaker 2 (54:14):
Well, that's like part two through ten. It doesn't get happier,
It gets funnier a lot of times. Because in the
next episode of Dragon ball Z, we're gonna talk a
lot about how LSD got injected into the culture of
(54:34):
the CIA and what that fucking did to them because
it changed every single person in there. Because spoilers, you'll
have to tune in next week on dragon ball Z.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
Not really dragon ball Z. We are not affiliated with them.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
No, that's owned by Akira Toriyama, So please support the
official release Showy Animation, Fuci TV and a Curatriama.
Speaker 1 (55:09):
I don't know what I'm gonna do with you.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
Oh, I know what you're gonna do with me.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
Ten years into this and I'm still like, Wow, I
just come up with weird shit, and I love you
for it.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Also, if you made it this far high, Levi, it's
nice to see. It's nice to that you're like the
one person listening to this podcast. Because I took like
two months off. Shit got weird. I mean it was
also just I started studying a different topic and I
(55:41):
kind of got sucked into MK Ultra and then I
got sucked into this and it was like.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
When does it stopt?
Speaker 2 (55:49):
At some point I have to stop writing and start
fucking putting out some material, and I just kept finding
more material and more and more and more. Did Laura
can attest There are just papers scattered around.
Speaker 1 (56:08):
I mean, there's always papers scattered around your office, So
it doesn't really look much different. But when you asked
if you could have a binder out of my little collection,
thanks to having a rising and moon virgo sign, I
have lots of binders.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:22):
So when you when you ask for that and the
semester was over, I knew something was up.
Speaker 2 (56:26):
Yeah, that was the other things I had finals and
that just mess fucks you up for weeks on end.
But anyway, we're gonna call this one an entire pod.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
And enj'y the cast of pod.
Speaker 2 (56:40):
Yes, you want to plug your plugables.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
God, I don't have any pluggables.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
Yes you do, Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (56:49):
All right, fine, if you want to find me and
all my weird twisted shit, go to my beacons dot
AI forward slash hnbane circle h G N B A
n E circle, and there you will find my alter
ego that talks a lot about.
Speaker 2 (57:03):
WITCHI shit got them curses.
Speaker 1 (57:07):
I have so many curses. I'm on a twin flame
rap right now.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
Yeah. And you also, you're just that curse person on TikTok.
Speaker 1 (57:17):
I am at that curse person.
Speaker 2 (57:19):
That's right, you're famous on TikTok.
Speaker 1 (57:21):
I'm not famous on TikTok.
Speaker 2 (57:22):
If you've had over a million views on any video.
You're famous on TikTok.
Speaker 1 (57:25):
That's only happened a couple times.
Speaker 2 (57:27):
Yeah, it's two million people.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
I was only added to one YouTube compilation list that
I know about, which was really weird.
Speaker 2 (57:34):
To find out that would be very odd. And I
am Ben Malick. This is the Alphabet Boys podcast. And
I don't know what to close out with here because
I would say it gets better, but it really doesn't.
My dudes, it's Wednesday. Wait, now you have to say
(57:58):
it while I'm doing this.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
Your girket leads the way.
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