July 23, 2026 • 63 mins
🎙️ FAFO Podcast | Jodie Cowles | Faith, Publishing, Living Abroad & the Power of StoryWhat happens when faith leads you across the world—and ultimately into a life of writing, publishing, and helping others share their stories?In this episode of the FAFO Podcast, we sit down with author, publisher, and entrepreneur Jodie Cowles for an inspiring conversation about faith, purpose, adventure, and the transformative power of storytelling. Having lived and worked abroad, Jodie shares how experiencing different cultures shaped her worldview, strengthened her faith, and influenced both her personal journey and her writing.We also dive into the world of publishing, discussing what it takes to bring a book from an idea to reality, the challenges aspiring authors face, and why everyone's story deserves to be told. Whether you're an author, entrepreneur, person of faith, or simply someone looking for encouragement to pursue your calling, this conversation is filled with wisdom, inspiration, and practical advice.🔥 In This Episodeâś… Living and working abroad and the lessons learned from different cultures âś… How faith has guided Jodie's personal and professional journey âś… Becoming an author and helping others become published âś… Behind the scenes of the publishing industry âś… Why storytelling has the power to change lives âś… Overcoming fear and stepping into your purpose âś… Encouragement for aspiring writers and entrepreneursđź‘Ť If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to Like, Subscribe, and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode!đź’¬ Question of the Day: If you could write a book about one chapter of your life, what would it be?#FAFOPodcast #JodieCowles #Author #Publisher #Faith #ChristianAuthor #WritingCommunity #BookPublishing #Storytelling #LivingAbroad #Entrepreneur #Podcast #Inspiration #Purpose #Books #Authors #FactsTruthNoBS
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
So have a chang again. Jusy boots on the wood,
Let the whiskey, Pat, This is fave. Holler it loud.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome back, guys once again to the FAFO podcast. And boy,
you know, this is one of my favorite things to do,
interview fellow authors. Why because I learned so much and
it's nice to meet people who are so much more
talented in the writing escape than I am. Now, let's
just face it, it's not too difficult to look at
the mirror and see the truth. But that's how you improve,
and that's how you improve. You got to be able
(00:47):
to do those things. And my next guest, when I
booked this one, I know I wanted to talk to
you because she has such a fascinating story and I
can't wait to dive into it a little bit because.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
You know, I hate flying. I haven't been out of
the cotton in the US.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Well, our next guest has not had that issue, and
this is going to be a lot of fun to
jump into.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
So you've heard me say this a billion times. Everyone
has a.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Story, but not everyone has the courage to tell it.
Today's guest has built a career helping others overcoming challenges
and discovering what real success looks like, whether your passionate
business leadership, personal growth, or making a difference this conversation, it's.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Packed with lessons anyone can use.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
And let me explain to you when we get into
talking about exactly how she's learning those lessons and where
her travels are taken her, You're going to be every
bit as fascinating.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
As I have.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
So, without further ado, please welcome my guest today, Jody calls. Jody,
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Thank you very much, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Oh, I've been looking forward to this one. I've been
looking forward to it because your story is interesting. I
mean when I was reading your profile and it says
you spent half your life living overseas and elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
How did all of that come about?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Well, I blame it all on my parents, as we
usually do. They My mom was in the military and
she was an army nurse, and so they took me
to Germany when I was about four months old. So
I blamed them for my wandering, wandering life after that,
but it was about half of my adult life's kind
of how I did the math, So I graduated from
(02:26):
college and jetted off to South Korea to teach English,
and then I came back and worked corporate and all
of that for ten or fifteen years, and then I
went back overseas and we've now been home four years.
But yeah, I worked for an NGO for a lot
of years, and I did a lot of a lot
(02:46):
of traveling and living in different countries. And then my
husband and I got married and lived in Turkey for
eight years. So yeah, I've been in a few different countries.
But it's all my parents' fault.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
That's usually how it starts, in to how it starts.
But I love the fact that you've been in so
many places. And as I said in my opening UH
monologue that I am I'm an habitual scaredy cat when
it comes to flying. So I have as But what
is that like when you're when you're living in another
country and even coming back and then going back and
(03:20):
living out of country again and doing that.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Especially in a country like Turkey, how how is that?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I I always struggle to answer that it was great.
It was great. The people are lovely, They're warm and hospitable.
They could not have been kinder in welcoming us and
having patients with our learning of the language and our
crazy different cultures, because there's you're always doing things differently,
(03:48):
and you know, some cultures, for instance, I lived in
Spain for a while and they're a much colder They
were much harder in you know, like a harder countenance
and not super welcoming. So I always compare the Turks
(04:09):
to the Spaniards, and they they both have have benefits
and and and challenges. But I found the Turks very
warm and welcoming. But we also lived through the almost coup,
and we lived through COVID over there, and we adopted
our daughter in Turkey, and it was it was supposed
to be a year turned into four war. So I
have a complicated history with Turkey that you know, just
(04:33):
you get living life, you get a little bit of
complicated history. But in general Turkey is amazing, and in
general living I would say living abroad in various circumstances
really widened my view of the world and I think
made me more more interested in in bridge building and
(04:58):
peacemaking and let's have so let's just have a conversation.
We don't have to like snipe at each other from
our different you know, what's the word you know when
we soapboxes. Sorry, we don't need to snipe at each other, like,
let's just have a conversation. And I think you get
that when you spend a little bit more time outside
(05:18):
of like you okay, you don't have to go, you
don't have to leave the United States. Just go to
a different neighborhood with a little bit different subculture and
in fight somebody to coffee or a beer or whatever
that's different from you, and have a conversation across the table.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
And that's so it's so very true. I mean, especially
with the war in now. And that's just not politically,
but the way that the world is, like everybody has
to be right, they have to be the knowledge point,
they have to be the ones. And then the way
media is across the board. From whatever view you look
at that at, I mean, you're being fair what you
should believe in instead of talking to people and finding
(05:55):
out what life really is. I think the world cut
with a great example of that coming here and everybody's
going to have such an amazing country.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
What do you people complaining about?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
And it really does open your eyes to how the
rest of the world sees us. But then you go
to these other countries and you are able to see
their world from a place you didn't know of until
you get there, and you end up with a beautiful
blessing coming out of Turkey when it's all said and
downe anyway, So when you when you're talking to people
about that, is it hard to really get that viewpoint
(06:28):
across and get them to see that, you know, the
world is so different than what you really believe on
a day to day basis.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
I think it is hard, but it's a you know,
it's a one on one conversation and you see and
you try to see where people are and you try
to meet them where you are. I think I learned
that as well, like you, Like you just said, we're
in a particular time of history and culture where everybody
wants to be exactly right and they want to like,
we want to share what we believe about every topic,
(06:58):
and we want you to agree. You know, you got
to agree with me on every topic or we can't
even have dinner together, you know. And I think, I mean,
I think you and I can probably find seventeen things
that we agree with. Why don't we talk about those things?
Why do we have to go to the exact thing
that we actually have deeply held beliefs that are not
(07:19):
in common, and it's okay to not say that. We
don't have to say every you know what I mean.
So I think it's a man, it's an interesting cultural
moment where we're so intent on finding the places of
division when there are so many points where we're just
human beings and most of us are trying our best.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Oh yeah, And if you didn't know anybody's a certain
point of view on certain things, you would be amazed
at how many people you actually just would get along
with normally if it wasn't for hot butt issues or
any of that stuff. So I agree with you, and
think of all the relationships you miss by living your
life that lens instead of just going Now, we have differences,
(08:03):
that's fine. You're gonna have yours, I'm gonna have mine,
but let's talk about some of the stuff with your
joy and build an actual relationship where it's acquaintances, friends
or whatever, or just as human beings.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
And let's do that.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So I love that answer, and I love that point
of view because it mirrors exactly my own. Uh, and
it's so funny in my writing, like I stay in
my writing. I write picture though.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
And I stay away from a lot of stuff, so
I write a.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Lot of picture I actually don't pull a lot of
my personal viewpoints into my writing.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
How do you manage that?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
It's not it's not easy. I just I'm making a
voice saying you know what I'm gonna do. I mean,
there are certain things like feeling wise, sure, but when
it comes to like politics or even religion, things I
am passionate about privately, I don't put that in my
writing because I'm not trying to alienate anybody. I want
to create worlds where you can get away from that
(08:59):
stuff and enjoy what it is you're going to be in.
And yet sometimes I'll find myself slipping into it and
go hold on, buddy, buddy, Now, how do you approach writing?
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Because I am interested how that works.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I think it's fascinating what you just said. I'm exactly
the opposite. So I've written five fiction books that are out,
and I've got two more in the works. But the
last book that I just put out was a memoir,
and so my first nonfiction, and that's what I've been
talking to people about lately. But I have always written
(09:32):
I prefer fiction because I think you can talk about
things that maybe we have a hard time talking about,
and you give people language, and you give them, you know,
just like a good movie, a good book, you can
you can almost inhabit. You can you can invite your
reader in and they inhabit the world with you. And
(09:54):
you have you have beautiful stories that touch the heart,
and you have, you know, conversation that maybe give you
language to have a conversation with somebody in your life.
So my fiction is super super personal, and it's usually
something I'm wrestling with. So I wrote a book called
(10:17):
Some Wandered in the Desert, which was about an international
aid worker getting kidnapped in North Africa, because I was
an international aid worker in North Africa worried about getting kidnapped.
So I like wrote this whole thing, kind of thinking
through what would I hopefully do or not do in
that scenario, and wrote I wrote when we were our
(10:38):
seventh year of eight years in Turkey, it was very difficult.
The adoption process was lingering way longer than it should have.
We couldn't leave all of these things. So I decided
to write a comedy. I'd never written a comedy before.
And I wrote a comedy about an international teacher coming
to live in is Stumble, which is not what I did,
(11:00):
but I was able to pour a lot of my
experience into it, and I was able to remember the
things that I loved about Turkey and the really I
mean hilarious things that happen when you live in a
different culture. And so I think writing for me is
a very therapeutic process. And it's me trying to work
(11:21):
out some question that I have or some crisis that
I had, you know, and I'm trying to reach across
to my reader in the same way, like let's have
a conversation across the table. It's just mostly me talking,
but you know, I mean, it's that same style.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, No, I get to know that I understand that
I wrote said I wasn't even to talk about this.
But so I wrote this book, The Suicide of Mind,
which is actually a memoir in a biography, written from
a totally fictional point of view because I can't write
straight nonfiction. It's just not going to happen. But it
is the same thing where you're pouring everything of you
(11:58):
into it. And so I do find that that is true,
and I do find myself doing that. If I write
about alien it's because that I like aliens.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Let's go. So when you're writing, what is your process like?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Because I did I checked out your website and I
saw the most of them, Like, these will be interesting
reads right here, So I'm probably gonna have to get
a couple of them, for sure, I know of.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I hope you will. Don't forget to write a review.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
That's the hardest thing in the world to get.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
It's like our continual please my friends, please, my okay,
my process? So, uh it is I have. I have
no process. I like I fit it in. I feel
you know, it's kind of a funny cliche, but a
creative burden, right, I've heard that term before, but I
think that's right. I feel a weight when I need
(12:51):
to write, and so I and and it kind of
it ebbs and flows. And I've been writing. My first
book came out twenty twenty twenty years ago approximately, and
so I've been writing in different stages, different processes. The
last book I wrote, the memoir, which was wow, its
(13:15):
own kind of excruciating. So I don't recommend it, but
I wrote it every morning for a year at five am.
I got up and worked on it for an hour,
hour and a half and I just gutted it out
and cried and then went on with my days. So
memoirs are a particular, particular kind of difficult. But I
(13:37):
have written, like I've written from eight to midnight for
six months, you know, I or I do I do.
My husband has given me the blessing of like a
weekend away, so I go to a hotel for three
days and I just write in a few you know.
So I'm very much most of the time, I'm all
(14:00):
in and then nothing for six months and then all in.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
And actually that's that is interesting though, And that's why
that's why I asked that question, because it's it's so
different for every writer.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
It seems like that whatever someone says, well, how do you,
how do you? How do you write? How much?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
How do I learn to write? Tell me how you write?
So I don't know how, Like there's I can't tell
you that. I can tell you what my process is
how I do it.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
That may not be your thing.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
I mean, because like I had to learn how to outline,
and I made outlines because it took me fourteen years
to write my first book, and I tuck a little
over half way and I.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Didn't know where to go.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, and I just for fourteen years all I did
was rewrite, rewrite, rewrite the.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
First half of my book.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
And then a lovely lady who worked here, she's the
most She's the mother of Guyhoe was the theater here.
She said, when are you gonna finish your book? Because
I put out a Novelli say if anybody was interested
fourteen years ago. She's always on me when you're gonna pinch.
So I'm like, you need to sit down and do
that before you know. She doesn't have the ability to
ever read this things she keeps me interested about. So
(15:02):
I'm like, well, I don't know how to do it
because I have I have writer's block. I can't get that,
and I outlined it. I'm like, I'm just gonna do
the stupid things. I hate outlining, and oh my god,
outlining is my favorite thing in the world to do
because after I outlined it, I had the book done
in two months. And I have learned that that is
now my process because now I can't stop writing, which
(15:22):
I love because that's all I've ever wanted to do.
You know, I would give up everything else in my
life quickly if I could just write full time.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
How where is what is your true passion in life?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
What a great question, you know. I think storytelling is
a passion that has run through my life. And I'm
a faith person, and I think in storytelling and in faith,
(16:05):
you're you're you're trying to walk people toward healing. And
I think that is probably that's off the cuff. How
I would answer you. That's I want people to examine
their lives and heal and recover. I had some I
had some childhood trauma, and so I and it took
(16:28):
me a long time to process grief and heal and recover.
And so I find that process so rewarding. I found
it rewarding personally, and I find it rewarding any any
small bit that I can play in helping others do that.
(16:51):
So that's my answer. I don't know how good it is.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
No, I love that, I mean because it is true,
like I have a little Jesus As always right here
by computer with me, and it's just a good reminder
from me who I've just now walked back into my
faith Like it's been a it's been a lifelong journey,
but it's just recently in the last few years, as
we're like, you know what, dude, You've seen too much,
(17:17):
you experienced too much, you felt too much. We need
to we need to focus on our energy and who
we are, who I am, and really do it. It's
been so rewarding. But it's funny when you say it,
because it's a lot of people are afraid to approach
life from that viewpoint and certainly to talk about it
and to want to help bothers. Like I love helping
(17:38):
other people. I would rather do that than I would
anything else. And there's a way that I could ever
do it. I just I'm a guy they called to
and I drop everything and I go. And yet oftentimes
you'll see if people do the opposite who.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
You just helped.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
And that's fine because I don't do it to be rewarded,
and it doesn't sound like you do either. How important
was that journey in faith for you as your life?
Speaker 1 (18:03):
As we can get older in life.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Well, okay, so when I turned fifty and I started
this book, so I think that's a you know, I
don't consider myself old, but I have lived some life,
and I think the process of examining your life. It
is so incredibly valuable and that's how I found it
(18:26):
for me looking back, spending it, you know, I mean,
you don't nobody, you don't have to publish it, but
just take and you don't have to take a year,
but even taking an evening or a weekend or just
and think about your life, where you've come from, and
the things that marked you and the things that made
you and the people who you know helped along the way.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
And the.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Very simple truth that I've known for a while is
that I would be dead if Jesus hadn't come and
rescued me. That is my story. And I had I
had trauma and abuse and addiction, and I was on
my way to the grave, and he came and he
got me. That's my story and that's what changed for me.
So I you know, looking at my looking at my
(19:15):
life in a in the in the longer picture, and
just trying to you know, trying to sift it and
pull the I think our culture is so you know,
we want comfort so much, and we don't we don't
want to do the hard thing a lot of time.
I mean me too, I hate the hard thing. I
would much rather eat bonbonds than read a book, but
(19:38):
you know, taking a minute to look at the hard
things and and and and what what you want to
do differently, you know, like looking at how your parents
raised you and how you want to raise your children
different is something we all kind of naturally do. And
we changed that. We changed some things, right, but we don't.
(20:00):
We don't always change the big patterns that are threads
through our lives. So I don't know, I think it's
valuable for everybody.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I think I think it is too, and it's you know,
it's fun. We were I was having this conversation with
a buddy of mine the other night. We were talking
about Eith and different things like that. And believe me,
I'm no saint at all, Even to this day at
fifty six, I'm not a saint. But I think that's
the whole point, is to recognize where your faults lie
and you're always trying to be better. I don't like,
(20:32):
I don't hold anything as somebody who they were twenty
years ago is who they are now, because who knows
what that journey was like for them and what kind
of growth did they go through. I tell you, one
of my best friends of all the time, I hated
you when you were younger, Like, if you walked out
from me to the car, I probably run over you
because you were that kind of person.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Like this, but what a lovely.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Human being has grown into you, and so that speaks
I think that speaks exactly right to what you're talking
about and how important it is, especially right now. I
think we've seen a resurgence of faith, and I know
that a lot of that is under attack, but yet
you've also seen a lot of people more and more speaking.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Out about it. You know.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
I watched Ella Langley the other night when she won
her award for her for choosing Texas, and I was like,
and she mentions God and her faith and stuff. I'm like,
there you go, because that was taboo for the longest time.
So I am happy to see us kind of getting
back to some of that. So what drives you every day?
Speaker 1 (21:33):
What really drives Jody?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Every day when you wake up and it's a new day,
who knows what today brings?
Speaker 1 (21:40):
What drives you?
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I think that after what I would call the worst
season of my life, you know, when I recognized for myself,
when I recognized that I actually do believe that God
is in control, I actually do if he has assignments
for us. So I think what drives me is I
(22:06):
wake up and I try to see what his assignment
is for me for the day, and I try to
I'm an introvert who is easily overstimulated and doesn't I'm
sorry to have to admit, but this is an authentic podcast.
You said, I don't love meeting new people very often,
(22:28):
and then I get into a conversation and it's really fun.
But in general, you know, I don't want to go
to a new party and meet new people. But so
for me, trying to just be present and see if
I can help whoever God brings across my path. And
I work with a lot of writers, and I have
(22:49):
a team that I work with, and I'm trying to
be helpful to my husband and my daughter and my parents.
We live in a multi generational family, so there's a
lot of talking and when I run out of words
pretty fast. So this is an interesting season of my life.
After living overseas for so many years with very few,
(23:14):
you know, zero or very few family members, now I
have a tremendous amount of community in my face, and
it's wonderful. But that's what I'm doing is I get
up and I try to see how I can be
helpful and not totally focused on me, which totally focused
on me is my preference and you know, sort of
(23:38):
my proclivity. So it's a it's always let's raise our
gaze to what's going on in front of us.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Well, I love that, and I think that's good.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I love to talk about being an introvert because that
was the first twenty five years of my life, was
being introverted, being scared. I wouldn't I was a comp
person who wouldn't talk in public, like I was scared
of mind with shadow.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
It's that.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Then becoming a wrestler kind of switched that literally overnight,
like it just it's a weird thing. But even now,
though even after I've done that and I've done theater
and all these things, I still find myself with that
younger version of me in the background at times, like
I'm the same I don't care to go to parties
and just being mingling stuff. I'm like, I think because
(24:24):
I don't worry about judgment anymore, but I know it's
still there.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
And then instead of just being able to go up
and have a conversation which.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Is why a lot of doing this because this is
easier to do and I know that I don't have
to worry about it. I can just focus on the person
I'm trying to get to know and talk to. Yeah,
that introverted this is It's a crazy thing to overcome,
but can also be a very powerful tool in our
especially in our writing, and if you're a writer, it
actually works out really well for being a writer because
(24:52):
you are often isolated. I love the three day weekend away.
I don't know if my girlfriend will go for that,
but I may have to try to run it.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
You can try it, try it.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
So what's the next the horizon for you have in mind?
Or I do?
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Yeah, So I wrote the one about the kidnapping that
was a couple of books ago, and I wrote the
sequel to it while we were in Turkey, but because
of our adoption situation, I wasn't putting anything out into
the world. So I have that one ready to go,
and I have the third one in that series about
(25:30):
half written. So I also write poetry, so I'm getting
you know, I'm putting a poetry book out here, hopefully
in the next year. I've got a kid's bilingual series
that helping helping parents raise their bilingual children, just giving
different resources. So I wrote the first one for my
daughter because she left Turkey at almost four, and I
(25:54):
know she's not going to remember it, like I don't
remember Germany at all. We left when I was three,
three and a half. So I wrote a children's book
for her and got a Turkish illustrator to illustrate out
of our pictures from Istanbul and and then this serious
joy's world started from there. So I'm kind of a
I have a lot of irons in the fire, a
(26:15):
lot of creative, creative ideas.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
That's good though, that's good though I'm not up hearing
that because I feel like sometimes I'm the only one
who does that, and when I talk to other authors,
it seems to be often the case that that's true, especially.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Like what you said. You you found your process. That's cool.
You found what works for you, and you can I
mean really, the only barriers are your girlfriend wants to
see you and and you know how you have to
pay rent or whatever. You know, Like I would be
writing full time too, in a in a cabin and
like you know, the woods if I could. Well, yeah,
(26:55):
but once you find your process, once you find what works,
and you you figure you go through the process. Because
I think the first book is the challenge of most people.
You know, most people. I mean a lot of people
have a great idea and they started and they get
ten pages in or even one hundred pages in, and
then they stopped for fourteen years or you know, it
took me five years to do my first book. And
(27:18):
but once you find it's your it lights you up
inside and it's a it's like a full body fulfillment,
mind and body fulfillment. To put that out there, man,
you just want to keep going.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
I think I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
So I have a this is a this is a
strange question, maybe or because it's probably it may be
just me here. But when you when your first book
came out and people who know you realize you've written
a book, what is their response?
Speaker 1 (27:47):
What was that like you remember any of that?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Like you were you in contact with a lot of
these people, did they know how what was that experience
like for you? Well?
Speaker 3 (27:56):
That was, like I said, twenty years ago, when there
wasn't Amazon, it wasn't even Amazon, no KDP, no self publishing. Yeah,
so it was a it was a completely different experience
from you know, putting a book out last month, when
you know, everywhere you turn around, somebody's putting out a book,
which is wonderful. Don't get me wrong, it's wonderful, but
(28:19):
it's a different cultural moment. I remember the you know,
my parents through a party and and all their friends came.
It was just it was I felt so supported, and
you know, I my grandma sent me flowers and a
note that I still have I still have on my
on my bookcase over here, you know. So it was
(28:40):
a big deal. And then I I worked with a
book launch coach this time, and I realized, oh, all
of his strategies work for first time others. It don't
really work when you're putting out your sixth book and
your friends are like great, but you know, yes, well
buy this one too.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yeah, man, that is so funny to that.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
I tell I used to have a small independent publishing company,
and we did. I did that for about five years
until I just got so annoyed that I was like,
this is not gonna work. And the reason being is
because I realized real quick that authors believe that in
this day and age, especially the new authors believe that
once I write a book, it's gonna become a best
seller and I don't have to do anything. I'm like,
(29:27):
and I tell each one, I'm like, look, when you
publish it, you still have all the work to do.
That's where the work begins. The joys you're writing part,
but it becomes your job after that to promoted. And
only had two authors out of thirty ever promote their stuff,
and lo and behold, shockingly, they've actually sold lots of
(29:48):
copies of the stuff, and it is amazing to me
that it's it's hard, it's a hard journey. But I
love hearing that story because I've only had two PAMs
members support me in my writing, my mom and my son.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Now I've got friends who are like, dude, I'm all
in and I'm surprised they know how to read, but
then they're surprised I know how to write. So it's
it really works well both ways. So you know, it's
one of those type of deals. What is what is
the most joy you do get out of writing? What
is your favorite part of the process?
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Creation? Yeah, coming up with a story, I just and
I get I get ideas. I'm sure you do too.
From all of life, and I'm interested in a lot
of different kind of I haven't written anything in the
same genre yet, I mean, minor all over the place.
And right now I read I don't know if you've
(30:49):
seen the movie Hail Mary.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Oh my god, so good.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
I read it. I read it three or four years ago.
Whenever I read it when it first came Mountains. I
really like Andy Wear. The book is, of course phenomenal.
The move anyway, So I was rereading it a couple
of weeks ago because it's been a few years, and
and he mentioned a science fact, as he does, and
I was so taken with it that I'm like creating
(31:18):
a whole new science fiction story around this one fact,
and that I love it, like I love this part.
And then when you very first start to build it out,
I'm not. I love hearing that you're an outlined person.
I am not. I I just kind of people always
(31:38):
laugh at me, like my characters never do what I
want him to. I say, you're going to do this,
and they go, you know, But I love that part
of creating. And then and then these ideas come out
of nowhere, and then oh, that would be such a
great twist. And how can I get there? And then
(31:59):
you know, it's a lot of work, as you know,
but I think that would be my favorite part. What
is your favorite part?
Speaker 1 (32:05):
It's a creation?
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah, can I can I create this story that I'm
going to love and want to read myself even though
I wrote it, but that I know that this is
what interests.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Me in life.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
This is like how I like watching my movies or
reading my books, because every book I write almost has
a twist it like I don't want the if the
reader ever just truly sees it coming, like they could
guess and go.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
I thought it might go this way, but I wasn't sure.
That's fine.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
It was like, dude, I noticed a knuisence page too,
that this is where we were going with this whole
thing right there. You know, that's disheartening a little bit
to me. And I never want my audience to feel that.
I want them, first of all, I want them to
be so taken with the journey that they're not even
thinking about it at the time until we get it.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
And I don't know, I'd like, I don't know how
good of a writer I am. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
If I'm just so bad I should never pick up
or type another key, or if I'm really good and
I should keep on doing it, because I don't trust
anybody who tells me I could. I just don't. I
just don't believe it. I don't have that faith. I
just know what I enjoy it. I don't want to
stop doing.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure it's more of the second than
the first, but I know that feeling very well.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
I don't know, because it's always the tone of surprise
when they read something.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Right, It's like you wrote this like, wait a minute, yeah, the.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
English language a little bit. Yep, don't let the face.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
No.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I think it's just that when people know you and
in all your whatever I mean, and then and then
because we all talk off the cuff like we do
with our arms and our you know, sidetracks and our
and when you have time to write it and edit
it and fix it exactly the way you want. I mean,
(33:47):
we could all do that if we took the time.
And you know, anyway, I I know, I know what
you're talking about. I've heard that as well.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Oh wow, okay, but it's funny.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Never take offense to it.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I might jokes about it, because that's just my personality.
I just don't take life seriously. And I've been told
by several exts that's a terrible trait to have. But
I'm like, well, I'm not unhappy.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
I don't know what to say, but I do find
uh when we're when we're out here writing it to
me and I know this is this is probably self
self serving, but I love being in being a part
of the author world and being part of the of
a writer's world because most people, as many books are
(34:34):
being published out there, still it's such a small, tidran
group of people that don't do this because writing is hard.
I mean, it's not easy. How do you feel about
being part of that community.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
I love it, I really love it. I love talking
to other writers. I especially love first time authors. We
you left the independent author space, independent publishing space. I'm
still in the independent publishing space. So I worked with
new authors all the time. And I love when it's
(35:11):
their first book because they have poured their heart and
passion into it and they have you know, they've taken
their shot, and they want to do a good job,
and they want to make it better, and we help
them make it better, you know, And I find a
lot of joy in that because I think you mentioned
(35:34):
earlier you know what your your what, your what, your
particular background is, your particular story. If I'm just meeting you,
I have no idea where your story is. I have
no idea where you come from. I'm looking at you
and I'm judging you for you know, like we all do.
You know, I'm making some assumptions about you, and I
think I think story is the most important thing we
(35:54):
have and and telling it to each other. You don't
have to write a book about it, but if you
do and someone gives you the honor of picking it
up and giving you five or six or ten hours
of their life to read about your story, I mean,
it's a beautiful thing and it man, it helps us,
(36:17):
It helps us be better humans to give somebody the
respect and the honor of listening to their story.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I agree with storytelling is the oldest art form. Literally,
the oldest art form on this planet is storytelling. I mean,
life has been based around it. And it does make
me feel when I see somebody has read my book
or they give me a feedback. And whenever you can
ring a review out of somebody it's great, but it
does make you feel good that they spent time and
(36:47):
their money. But more important to me, it's the time,
the investment in what you're creating and what you're writing.
When you're met with people and they meet you and
I don't know how many book signings you've done, when
you're at one of these and they and they tell
you that stuff. How hard is it for you take
a compliment? And I ask the stories, But I'm curious.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
I would say I am better at taking a compliment
now at fifty two than I have ever been in life.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
It has not been an easy thing. I'm trying to
think there is somebody who said to me except the
Bauquet years ago, and I, uh, I think of that.
I because this is you know, I think we devalue
(37:42):
our own efforts. I mean, I think that's a human trait.
And and you, especially in writing your own story, whether
it's your personal story or whether it's a story that
you've made up and poured your blood and sweat and
tears into it, so personal and so vulnerable that you
(38:03):
don't trust to yourself and you have and you struggle
to trust your friends you know, or your family who say,
oh this is great, Well you love me, you know,
so I have gotten I mean, there's a reason nobody's
ever heard of me. I have not sold very many books,
and that's just that's just life. But this last book,
(38:25):
I'm getting a little bit more feedback than I ever have.
And I had somebody like recognize me off of my
author picture. It's never happened to me before. And it
was really, I'm it was, I'm not gonna lie. It
was awesome. Hey, I think I recognized you. Did you
write blah blah blah?
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Yes I did.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
I mean I was stutter stutter stutter. But but that
that person telling me that they really were impacted by
the book I took. I accepted that bookay, I mean, wow,
it was not somebody I'm blood related to.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
That does matter. That matters a whole lot.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
My girlfriend and she was like, she was telling me,
She's like, well, I wrote you a good review. I said,
I know, and you always tell me how proud you me,
and I appreciate all of that.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
I'm not saying I do not, I.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Said, but the difference is that you know me, you
live with me, you love me, so you're hardly gonna
bash me. All right, that's not something that's probably going
to happen. Whether you do that consciously or subconscious or not,
it's not gonna happen. I said, So, I value a
stranger's opinion more because they have nothing to gain. There's
(39:42):
no ulterior motive, there's nothing, it's just then in the raw,
true feelings. If I get a review from somebody that hey,
it started off a little slow, but I really enjoyed
it by the time I got here, I've been looking
for a new author, which is a review I just got.
I'm like, this is my go to I'm like, oh,
that's awesome. I'm like that melts the heart of little
bit way to go.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
But that's what I write is I'm like that that
that feeling that they spent five hundred and something pages
to read this novel and go, I enjoyed my time
with this book.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
It's so good.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
It's so gratifying.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
So do you still so, I know she were talking
about working with independent authors, You still do that? Is
that part of a business that you have or what
is that?
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Yeah? I co founded an independent publishing company called Blue
Hat Publishing, and we're yeah, yeah, we're we are just
coming up on three years. We've had about one hundred
authors that we've helped. We haven't published that many, but
we're you know, we have that many in progress. And
it is so fun. It's a completely new season of life,
(40:52):
completely different than anything else I've ever done.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
You know.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
When we came home from Turkey, I had been in
that stint overseas for fifteen years, I think fourteen fifteen
years something like that. Completely different skill set. You know,
I'm thinking, what kind of a job am I going
to get? I didn't even know what to apply for.
I've been out of the workforce, you know. And it
turns out, man, cross cultural communication, cross cultural living really
(41:20):
sets you up with some skills that are that are
you know, transferable. It's just it was hard for me
to figure it out at the beginning. So so yeah,
now we're at three years and we're just growing because
so many people want to write, so many people want
to put their story out there. It's a cultural moment,
(41:42):
you know, And I always tell them, like, it is
a great time to be a writer. All you need
is time or money. And that did not used to
be the case. I mean when I started and further
back it was not the case. But there's no gatekeepers anymore.
There is certainly the you know, New York mechanism, but
(42:06):
you can go around them now and you can put
out a beautiful book. You can put out a book
that looks like it came from New York with just
a certain amount of time or a certain amount of money.
Phenomenal and it's just wonderful. And then there's you know,
so many scammers in our space. So we don't advertise
(42:32):
at all. We have a bursting business because of referral.
Like we just we don't take any royalties, Like we're
three authors who built a company that we won't wish
we had had. So we walk you through the million things,
but we don't take your royalties, we don't take your rights.
We're a services company. We this is our price, there's
(42:55):
no surprises, and then we will walk you through the
process and you get a beautiful book at the end.
And I mean, there are so few competitors working with integrity,
I would say in the space.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah, yeah, I've been looking for a PR company because
I really want to go all out with black Ridge,
because it's my new one. I just dropped it and
I was like, I know that I'm going that's what
I'm going to do, all the right pr stuff, but
oh my god, the amount of isis how I call
the stammers out there who just come in and like
(43:32):
can help you, and it's only going to cause blah
blah blah. I'm like, I already know I have to
pay money for my book. That's not what I'm looking for.
I'm looking for somebody who can tell me, Hey, this
is where we need to head. You need to head here.
I need somebody who can point me in those directions.
I'm like, y'all are just trying to take my money.
I can do that, al.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
I mean, and you know, you have a lot of information,
you have a lot of you know, you've gone through
a lot of the process. Most of our authors, our
first time authors, no experience, and they're lost and they
they I mean I get emails from our authors regularly. Hey,
so and so reached out and they said blah blah blah,
And I said, no, no, no, no scam, you know,
(44:15):
and we I hate that as well. I just want to, like,
let's just work with integrity with each other. I mean,
that's another not to I'm just to tell you what's
out there. Like a friend of mine runs a business
publishing company, and she and one of her right hand
gal and I were complaining at a retreat about just
(44:39):
what you said, Like, Okay, I would like to promote
my book. I have a budget, but what am I
supposed to do? And all of our authors and both
of our companies are getting scammed left and right, and
they're getting like, if you'll only pay fifteen hundred dollars
for this, and they don't know that this means nothing.
So we put together at a little pr company and
(45:01):
we're like, you know, square boxesn't simple. Here are six
things that we know work. It mayor you know, it
may or may not result in it's never going to
result in the New York Times, but it may result in,
you know, actual sales, and it may result in whatever.
But it's just it's so frustrating to sit in our
(45:22):
chairs and to watch people get scammed who are just trying.
They're just trying to take a swing right with something
so valuable and vulnerable. And obviously justice is an issue for.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Me because because there's so many of these people getting
away with taking advantage of them, and they're out there
I have one. The other day when I was talking
about it's why you said fifty hundred dollars because what
he quoted me and I told my girlfriends, she said,
across my studio probably, I said, I said, what are
you doing?
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Because you're granted?
Speaker 2 (45:52):
I said, well, I got this guy here who's trying
to sell me that his his PR firm is legit.
I said, he's about to offer me fifteen hundred dollars.
That's all I need to pay him. And then he
wants to schedule a call. He said, what are you
gonna do? I said, oh, I'm gonna let him schedule
the call. So, of course he did not already done
on my research. I already knew they were a scammer group.
(46:15):
And then when he I finally answered a couple of
days later, after I just made HI, kept calling and
kept calling and kept calling because he was ready, because
he just knew I was ready by And it's because
I had let him on that way.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
I'm not gonna lie about it.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
I don't feel guilty either, And so he I said,
you know what, I just don't have the money.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
I'm so sorry. I don't have a benefactor anymore. He bailt.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
I mean, I lied, but it's she's like, you just
lie to that man. I'm like, well, he's trying to
scam me. I don't feel guilty. I'm like, if I
lie to you, it's hard me to live with myself.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
But this guy not a problem with.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
It because he has done scammed probably one hundred other
people and their whole company has and that's on the
low side of it. So I wreck I commend you
guys for what y'all are doing there. I think that's
beautiful because because it is hard, it's one of the
reasons we kind of said, you know what, we're gonna
shut this down. And Doc, who was one of my
(47:10):
best friends, is a doctor and I publish all his stuff.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Still.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
I just published this new book and we talk about that.
I said, I'm only going to publish for people who
I know are serious right now because I got so
frustrated before. And my other buddy who I published for,
is like, you need to get back into it. I'm like,
I want to, but I enjoy writing so much. I said,
maybe when I slowed down a little bit, I'll I'll
(47:34):
get back into that and kind of do it.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
But I don't know, I.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Love what y'all are doing and I'm glad and anyway
that I can support that in your company, you just
let me know because I'm all for that.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
I think that's great.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
Well send us anybody who has more money than time.
I mean, that's the you know, you know what I mean.
I mean we are like that's what We're a paid
for services company, but we're I'm really proud of what
we're doing. And I'm really really irritated at some of
the companies that are popping up and people are paying
(48:06):
six eight thousand dollars for AI editing and AI covers
and if you know, if you know anything, it's no,
it's nobody's fault for wanting to get their book out.
But if you know anything, you know what they're doing
and you can recognize it, you know, I just yeah,
burning passion.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
And that's really the problem too, is that, like I
use AI all the time as a tool, but you
can't use AI as you and you know in perfect
reading that and or perpetuating that as who you are,
because it's not it's easy to see.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Like I did that Black Reach book cover on AI.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
Guy taught me how to write problem like I never
knew how to use it, and I was like, well,
I need to learn because I don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
I can't draw, and I don't know any artists.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
All my friends are actually stupid, I guess, or don't
talented learn just musicians. So I don't wan to do
he said, Look, I said, but I don't want anything JANKI.
He said, let me teach you how to use a tool.
He said, if you will look at it as a tool,
you're fine. He said, Now, I can't promise you to
do anything else. I said, well, I've already seen the
(49:18):
other side of it. That doesn't That doesn't help me.
I said, but I need a tool to help me.
He said, well, this is what you do, and so
we and I learned how to use it. But the
problem is that so many people will go, hey, I
need a copy of this. Can you do this right here?
But put my name on it and be done with it.
So I think that's the devil side of it. And
(49:41):
they'll build whole companies because those courses that teach you
that if you don't really want to have to work
another day in your life and you don't have to
do all the work, I'm like, yeah, but when you
read it and you look at it's the same thing.
You're like, you tell, this is a this is a
mechanical software that did this. This is not or digital
so where it is is not a real person. So
(50:03):
when when you're talking to these authors about that, how
do you combat that in their head?
Speaker 3 (50:08):
Well, one thing we've done is we've drawn a really
hard line with human creativity and the words. Yea, so
the words we don't let Ai touch, the words we
don't let Ai write, we don't let Ai edit, we
don't A lot of our authors are coming in like you,
with a mocked up cover. They said, I want it
(50:30):
to be something like this. I don't know if you know,
you can't copyright that. You can't copyright anything, you can't
trademark anything. So it's a you know, there's some things
about AI that with the legislation that is falling behind anyway.
So we create the cover the you know, the old
fashioned way, based on the design that you that you
(50:52):
like with you know, we'll give you some professional advice
on why this is tweaking this and that. So we
have a we have a really hard line on the
words and the output, the product. We could even we
could even at this point design a really good book
in AI, but we're unwilling to feed our author's intellectual
(51:13):
property into AI, do you know what I mean? So
that's what we've heard. Yeah, so we've drawn that line.
But I'm I'm I'm the COO, I run the back end,
I do royalties. I do you know, I'm using AI
like the Dickens for that. And you know, I just
made us an author portal, and I've made us an
(51:34):
admin dashboard and things that, you know, connect to our
Shopify store and let the author know what they what
their sales are, you know, all of that kind of thing.
I think, let's go. We do not want to be
the wholesome body. But I and we as a company
value the human spark in a story. And AI can write,
(51:59):
and it's writing better and better, but it cannot It
does not have the spark of human creativity. It cannot.
It can iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate, copy, copy, copy, but
it cannot create. And I think, in my opinion, we're
going to get to ninety percent AI slop and top
(52:20):
ten percent human creativity cream. And there are there's a
lot of people who are okay with that, and that's fine,
but I this is what I want to read, and
this is what I want to write, and there's enough
of us. I think that, you know, human writing will prevail.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
I think so too, because you can just tell it
when you're reading it, because it sounds robotic, it sounds
just like, first of all, nobody talks that way.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
It just doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Yeah, and the descriptors are usually off, and there's so
many problems with it. But you do find a lot
of people I had he shall not be named, came
up to me with a fiction book and said, hey,
I wrote this and can you can you look at
it edit for me.
Speaker 1 (53:06):
I'm like, yeah, sure, no problem, I'll open it up.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
I was like, dude, first of all, this is I'm like,
how much chat GPT did you use for this one?
Because it sounds like all of it? Yeah, I mean,
that's just that's the idea. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no no, no, that's not the idea.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
If you're going to write, right, yeah, I'm.
Speaker 3 (53:29):
Like, it's okay. You don't have to write.
Speaker 2 (53:32):
If you're going to write, But if you're going to write, write,
and if you don't, then that's fine. You want somebody
to help you write a story like I don't mind ghostwriting.
What let's let's be clear as to what you're doing,
because you try to put that out and then they're
gonna lap.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
That and go, what in the world is this? Because
it came across and.
Speaker 3 (53:52):
There's a lot of I don't know if you've found
this to be true, but we have found there's so
much misinformation and misunderstanding on what I I does and
what it doesn't. And we've had several authors write their
book and then right before they send it to us,
their friend says, hey, just throw it into chat GBT
and it'll smooth it out and you know, edit it
(54:12):
for you, and it it rewrites it. It doesn't like, you know,
change three words that were typos. It rewrites it and
it smooths it out, and so it sounds exactly like AI.
So I think there's just you know, I mean, what
a fun time to be alive. Another giant transition and
let's you know, the rules are behind but we can
(54:35):
make our own rules and figure out ethically what we
value and move forward that way.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
Yeah, And I think you really have to and you
do have to make that call.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
So I'm glad y'all did because I'll think it leans
those authors will be so much more proud of their
work at the end of the day, knowing that this
is something I do versus h I'll let a machine
run and I'll put my name on it, and here
we go.
Speaker 3 (55:01):
Yeah, I just I mean, as I said, I use
AI now every day. Like I am robustly trying to
build some things. But I just am uncomfortable with, you know,
putting your story together and letting a robot, you know, write.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
It because it's not you. I mean, you can and
you can give itameters and that's great. I mean because
I will use it a lot for my outlines if
I need to, Like, I will feed my outline then
and go all right, here we are, this is my outline,
here's my first ten What am I looking at? And
I use it for tool. But it does zero of
my writing.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
That's got to be me.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
It comes across I, it doesn't me and my buddy,
my doctor friend, didn't experiment on that. I'm gonna write
the first chapter of something, and I'm gonna give it
the same stuff, all the basics and see what happens.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
I was like looking at this you see the different lifeless.
Speaker 3 (56:02):
Lifeless, lifeless and not and and again no spark like no,
no giant plot change in chapter twenty seven because that
would be inventive exactly.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
We can't have that, I mean, but that's something some
of it.
Speaker 3 (56:22):
Well what are you? What are you working on now?
Speaker 2 (56:26):
I have Oh my god, I'm I did a stupid thing.
I was like stupid. So I wrote a book called
Bodie Bagsley and the Curse of Pumpkin soone because I
love as a child, I love the whimsical nature of
Halloween and that artwork that came out then when we
were young, because we're about the same age, but you know,
the whimsical view of it back then in the car.
(56:48):
I love that. I've always did my I love that view.
So I wanted something that said, hey, I want to
attach that and I want to attack my stories from
that point of view. I want to create that world.
And then I love JK and how she created Harry
Potter was such a vibrant view and like it breathed
and everything was great, and you didn't she didn't try
to just compress it into a small, little katy story.
(57:11):
I mean, every creature and thing in there, and even
the inanimate objects had a life to them. And that's
what I wanted. And so when I did that, I
was like, but I don't want to be Harry Potter too.
That's not what I want to be here. I want
to be body is a different world. And so I
had the idea, like, I would like that that world
influenced our actual beliefs here in our real world. So
(57:33):
what this thing existed right beside us? And so I
wrote the first book and it was good.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
It was pretty good.
Speaker 2 (57:39):
People loved it, the ones who read it, the few
who read it, and uh, but I wanted to be
a whole series. And so I'm writing book two now.
But I got two chapters in and said, you know what, buddy,
we need a creature. We need a compendium of the
world so I'll know how to keep stuff straight. Well
that turned into a three month journey of writing a
five hundred page compendium for only two books so far
(58:01):
out of a five book series. But up to the
end of the companium and I started outlining the book
now as I see it, based on the world I created.
Because as you creating a compendium, all these new ideas
come flooding in because you got to flesh the world out.
And so the whole basis of the second book changed,
and I'm so happy it did, because I'm six chapters in.
(58:24):
This book is already massive, and it will probably be
the longest thing I've written.
Speaker 1 (58:29):
I mean, and that's fine. I don't mind it.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
But if they work a passion and love, and that's
what I'm taking my out the absolute time. I heard
one time that you should strive to write about six
pages a day is a great good momentum. If you
can get six pages, what could you do? And after
I get done with my outlines and stuff, my writing
goes up to at least ten plus because I'm just
(58:53):
locked in. I can't stop writing once I start. It
is a drug, and so that's what I work, and
that's my goal. So I'm hopefully I have this great
five book series that if only twenty seven people read,
or twenty seven people.
Speaker 1 (59:08):
Got to enjoy this world.
Speaker 3 (59:10):
That's awesome, kid for telling me about it. That is
really my word. That's a big project.
Speaker 2 (59:17):
It is, but and that's something I would never have
done before and thought of doing. Well, that's not true,
I thought of doing it, but I never thought I
could do it, and I've become so assured of who
I am. Now that's like, okay, buddy, we can do this.
I talk to myself all the time and I hear,
what did you say? I'm just still talking to myself.
(59:41):
That's that sort of thing. But well, they'll say, do
you ever talk to yourself while you're righty?
Speaker 3 (59:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (59:48):
I do. Thank god, I'm not going crazy, And I thought, no,
you're not.
Speaker 3 (59:52):
No, it's a creative tech.
Speaker 1 (59:54):
It is, it really is. Oh my god, we've been
here almost an hour.
Speaker 3 (59:59):
Oh yeah, thanks, lovely, lovely conversation. I just loved it.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
I love having you on here. I will go take
a look at your at your company. By the way,
And uh, you know, I get asked all the time
for people, how do I do you publish you more like,
I don't.
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
I only do that for select people, and I don't
even advertise. I just stay help out, but I will
send them your way.
Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
That'd be awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Thank you, because I love what you're doing with blue Hat.
Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
I think that's awesome and I think people these people
need good, honest people who are going to help them
with the right direction.
Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
Yeah, yeah, we're having a good time. We're having a
good time, and I mean, you know, doing things the
right way is its own reward.
Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
It is I sleep better. But thank you so much
for doing this today, Jody. It's so good getting to
know you. You're You've been wonderful and thank you silly show
talking about this.
Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
I enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
I've loved it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
Thanks for them anytime. If you ever want to come back,
I would always love to have you back. So y'all
got something going on and I will tell you this too.
And we're still on the air and it's still recording,
so I can't walk this back, and I'm not gonna
edit it out.
Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
But if you ever have.
Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
Anything you need promoted or advertised or anything like that
you want me to do on my pocket, you just
let me know. Seeing that play it during the things
and ain't hurting my opinions. I don't mind helping out anyway.
I can so do that.
Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Please, Thank you, Thank you so very much, thanks for
coming today. Okay, all right, how are we going you too?
Woo folks. Wow, that was a long one, but a
great one.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
You tell how passionate I am about talking to other
authors and seeing what they've got to I mean their
experience and talking about Jody's experience right there. Can you
imagine living in other countries doing that, have New Spain, Turkey,
back to America and then all that life has in between,
and then member to write that down and share that
with the world and none only that beginning a blessing
(01:01:59):
for a dollar and all of it. It's amazing the
place's life will take you if you let it, I mean,
don't be afraid of it. Go do it. That's the
whole point of life. You got one shot that you
know of. If you gotta dream, go for it.
Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Do it.
Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
And planning writing a book, you need to hit Jody
up and blue hat and let's go get somebody who's
willing to help you and do it the right way.
You have been listening to the FAFO podcast Facts, Truth,
don't Yes, Let's have a go.
Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
On four half a tang again. Josey boots on the wood,
Let the whiskey pat.
Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
This is fay for holler it a loud tugging around
with fiction, get the facts drawn, getting triggers.
Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
Just the cost of the crowd. We're toxic, tut of
the lies.
Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
Truth with proud this is pay for no smooth talk,
no wow, you brought your stories, We brought the real now.
Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Round your mouth. Thedn't read the.
Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
South down fucking around and find out burn it down.
Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
Mm hmmm
So have a chang again. Jusy boots on the wood,
Let the whiskey, Pat, This is fave. Holler it loud.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome back, guys once again to the FAFO podcast. And boy,
you know, this is one of my favorite things to do,
interview fellow authors. Why because I learned so much and
it's nice to meet people who are so much more
talented in the writing escape than I am. Now, let's
just face it, it's not too difficult to look at
the mirror and see the truth. But that's how you improve,
and that's how you improve. You got to be able
(00:47):
to do those things. And my next guest, when I
booked this one, I know I wanted to talk to
you because she has such a fascinating story and I
can't wait to dive into it a little bit because.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
You know, I hate flying. I haven't been out of
the cotton in the US.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Well, our next guest has not had that issue, and
this is going to be a lot of fun to
jump into.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
So you've heard me say this a billion times. Everyone
has a.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Story, but not everyone has the courage to tell it.
Today's guest has built a career helping others overcoming challenges
and discovering what real success looks like, whether your passionate
business leadership, personal growth, or making a difference this conversation, it's.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Packed with lessons anyone can use.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
And let me explain to you when we get into
talking about exactly how she's learning those lessons and where
her travels are taken her, You're going to be every
bit as fascinating.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
As I have.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
So, without further ado, please welcome my guest today, Jody calls. Jody,
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Thank you very much, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Oh, I've been looking forward to this one. I've been
looking forward to it because your story is interesting. I
mean when I was reading your profile and it says
you spent half your life living overseas and elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
How did all of that come about?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Well, I blame it all on my parents, as we
usually do. They My mom was in the military and
she was an army nurse, and so they took me
to Germany when I was about four months old. So
I blamed them for my wandering, wandering life after that,
but it was about half of my adult life's kind
of how I did the math, So I graduated from
(02:26):
college and jetted off to South Korea to teach English,
and then I came back and worked corporate and all
of that for ten or fifteen years, and then I
went back overseas and we've now been home four years.
But yeah, I worked for an NGO for a lot
of years, and I did a lot of a lot
(02:46):
of traveling and living in different countries. And then my
husband and I got married and lived in Turkey for
eight years. So yeah, I've been in a few different countries.
But it's all my parents' fault.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
That's usually how it starts, in to how it starts.
But I love the fact that you've been in so
many places. And as I said in my opening UH
monologue that I am I'm an habitual scaredy cat when
it comes to flying. So I have as But what
is that like when you're when you're living in another
country and even coming back and then going back and
(03:20):
living out of country again and doing that.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Especially in a country like Turkey, how how is that?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I I always struggle to answer that it was great.
It was great. The people are lovely, They're warm and hospitable.
They could not have been kinder in welcoming us and
having patients with our learning of the language and our
crazy different cultures, because there's you're always doing things differently,
(03:48):
and you know, some cultures, for instance, I lived in
Spain for a while and they're a much colder They
were much harder in you know, like a harder countenance
and not super welcoming. So I always compare the Turks
(04:09):
to the Spaniards, and they they both have have benefits
and and and challenges. But I found the Turks very
warm and welcoming. But we also lived through the almost coup,
and we lived through COVID over there, and we adopted
our daughter in Turkey, and it was it was supposed
to be a year turned into four war. So I
have a complicated history with Turkey that you know, just
(04:33):
you get living life, you get a little bit of
complicated history. But in general Turkey is amazing, and in
general living I would say living abroad in various circumstances
really widened my view of the world and I think
made me more more interested in in bridge building and
(04:58):
peacemaking and let's have so let's just have a conversation.
We don't have to like snipe at each other from
our different you know, what's the word you know when
we soapboxes. Sorry, we don't need to snipe at each other, like,
let's just have a conversation. And I think you get
that when you spend a little bit more time outside
(05:18):
of like you okay, you don't have to go, you
don't have to leave the United States. Just go to
a different neighborhood with a little bit different subculture and
in fight somebody to coffee or a beer or whatever
that's different from you, and have a conversation across the table.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
And that's so it's so very true. I mean, especially
with the war in now. And that's just not politically,
but the way that the world is, like everybody has
to be right, they have to be the knowledge point,
they have to be the ones. And then the way
media is across the board. From whatever view you look
at that at, I mean, you're being fair what you
should believe in instead of talking to people and finding
(05:55):
out what life really is. I think the world cut
with a great example of that coming here and everybody's
going to have such an amazing country.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
What do you people complaining about?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
And it really does open your eyes to how the
rest of the world sees us. But then you go
to these other countries and you are able to see
their world from a place you didn't know of until
you get there, and you end up with a beautiful
blessing coming out of Turkey when it's all said and
downe anyway, So when you when you're talking to people
about that, is it hard to really get that viewpoint
(06:28):
across and get them to see that, you know, the
world is so different than what you really believe on
a day to day basis.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
I think it is hard, but it's a you know,
it's a one on one conversation and you see and
you try to see where people are and you try
to meet them where you are. I think I learned
that as well, like you, Like you just said, we're
in a particular time of history and culture where everybody
wants to be exactly right and they want to like,
we want to share what we believe about every topic,
(06:58):
and we want you to agree. You know, you got
to agree with me on every topic or we can't
even have dinner together, you know. And I think, I mean,
I think you and I can probably find seventeen things
that we agree with. Why don't we talk about those things?
Why do we have to go to the exact thing
that we actually have deeply held beliefs that are not
(07:19):
in common, and it's okay to not say that. We
don't have to say every you know what I mean.
So I think it's a man, it's an interesting cultural
moment where we're so intent on finding the places of
division when there are so many points where we're just
human beings and most of us are trying our best.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Oh yeah, And if you didn't know anybody's a certain
point of view on certain things, you would be amazed
at how many people you actually just would get along
with normally if it wasn't for hot butt issues or
any of that stuff. So I agree with you, and
think of all the relationships you miss by living your
life that lens instead of just going Now, we have differences,
(08:03):
that's fine. You're gonna have yours, I'm gonna have mine,
but let's talk about some of the stuff with your
joy and build an actual relationship where it's acquaintances, friends
or whatever, or just as human beings.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
And let's do that.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So I love that answer, and I love that point
of view because it mirrors exactly my own. Uh, and
it's so funny in my writing, like I stay in
my writing. I write picture though.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
And I stay away from a lot of stuff, so
I write a.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Lot of picture I actually don't pull a lot of
my personal viewpoints into my writing.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
How do you manage that?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
It's not it's not easy. I just I'm making a
voice saying you know what I'm gonna do. I mean,
there are certain things like feeling wise, sure, but when
it comes to like politics or even religion, things I
am passionate about privately, I don't put that in my
writing because I'm not trying to alienate anybody. I want
to create worlds where you can get away from that
(08:59):
stuff and enjoy what it is you're going to be in.
And yet sometimes I'll find myself slipping into it and
go hold on, buddy, buddy, Now, how do you approach writing?
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Because I am interested how that works.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I think it's fascinating what you just said. I'm exactly
the opposite. So I've written five fiction books that are out,
and I've got two more in the works. But the
last book that I just put out was a memoir,
and so my first nonfiction, and that's what I've been
talking to people about lately. But I have always written
(09:32):
I prefer fiction because I think you can talk about
things that maybe we have a hard time talking about,
and you give people language, and you give them, you know,
just like a good movie, a good book, you can
you can almost inhabit. You can you can invite your
reader in and they inhabit the world with you. And
(09:54):
you have you have beautiful stories that touch the heart,
and you have, you know, conversation that maybe give you
language to have a conversation with somebody in your life.
So my fiction is super super personal, and it's usually
something I'm wrestling with. So I wrote a book called
(10:17):
Some Wandered in the Desert, which was about an international
aid worker getting kidnapped in North Africa, because I was
an international aid worker in North Africa worried about getting kidnapped.
So I like wrote this whole thing, kind of thinking
through what would I hopefully do or not do in
that scenario, and wrote I wrote when we were our
(10:38):
seventh year of eight years in Turkey, it was very difficult.
The adoption process was lingering way longer than it should have.
We couldn't leave all of these things. So I decided
to write a comedy. I'd never written a comedy before.
And I wrote a comedy about an international teacher coming
to live in is Stumble, which is not what I did,
(11:00):
but I was able to pour a lot of my
experience into it, and I was able to remember the
things that I loved about Turkey and the really I
mean hilarious things that happen when you live in a
different culture. And so I think writing for me is
a very therapeutic process. And it's me trying to work
(11:21):
out some question that I have or some crisis that
I had, you know, and I'm trying to reach across
to my reader in the same way, like let's have
a conversation across the table. It's just mostly me talking,
but you know, I mean, it's that same style.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, No, I get to know that I understand that
I wrote said I wasn't even to talk about this.
But so I wrote this book, The Suicide of Mind,
which is actually a memoir in a biography, written from
a totally fictional point of view because I can't write
straight nonfiction. It's just not going to happen. But it
is the same thing where you're pouring everything of you
(11:58):
into it. And so I do find that that is true,
and I do find myself doing that. If I write
about alien it's because that I like aliens.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Let's go. So when you're writing, what is your process like?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Because I did I checked out your website and I
saw the most of them, Like, these will be interesting
reads right here, So I'm probably gonna have to get
a couple of them, for sure, I know of.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I hope you will. Don't forget to write a review.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
That's the hardest thing in the world to get.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
It's like our continual please my friends, please, my okay,
my process? So, uh it is I have. I have
no process. I like I fit it in. I feel
you know, it's kind of a funny cliche, but a
creative burden, right, I've heard that term before, but I
think that's right. I feel a weight when I need
(12:51):
to write, and so I and and it kind of
it ebbs and flows. And I've been writing. My first
book came out twenty twenty twenty years ago approximately, and
so I've been writing in different stages, different processes. The
last book I wrote, the memoir, which was wow, its
(13:15):
own kind of excruciating. So I don't recommend it, but
I wrote it every morning for a year at five am.
I got up and worked on it for an hour,
hour and a half and I just gutted it out
and cried and then went on with my days. So
memoirs are a particular, particular kind of difficult. But I
(13:37):
have written, like I've written from eight to midnight for
six months, you know, I or I do I do.
My husband has given me the blessing of like a
weekend away, so I go to a hotel for three
days and I just write in a few you know.
So I'm very much most of the time, I'm all
(14:00):
in and then nothing for six months and then all in.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
And actually that's that is interesting though, And that's why
that's why I asked that question, because it's it's so
different for every writer.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
It seems like that whatever someone says, well, how do you,
how do you? How do you write? How much?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
How do I learn to write? Tell me how you write?
So I don't know how, Like there's I can't tell
you that. I can tell you what my process is
how I do it.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
That may not be your thing.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
I mean, because like I had to learn how to outline,
and I made outlines because it took me fourteen years
to write my first book, and I tuck a little
over half way and I.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Didn't know where to go.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, and I just for fourteen years all I did
was rewrite, rewrite, rewrite the.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
First half of my book.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
And then a lovely lady who worked here, she's the
most She's the mother of Guyhoe was the theater here.
She said, when are you gonna finish your book? Because
I put out a Novelli say if anybody was interested
fourteen years ago. She's always on me when you're gonna pinch.
So I'm like, you need to sit down and do
that before you know. She doesn't have the ability to
ever read this things she keeps me interested about. So
(15:02):
I'm like, well, I don't know how to do it
because I have I have writer's block. I can't get that,
and I outlined it. I'm like, I'm just gonna do
the stupid things. I hate outlining, and oh my god,
outlining is my favorite thing in the world to do
because after I outlined it, I had the book done
in two months. And I have learned that that is
now my process because now I can't stop writing, which
(15:22):
I love because that's all I've ever wanted to do.
You know, I would give up everything else in my
life quickly if I could just write full time.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
How where is what is your true passion in life?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
What a great question, you know. I think storytelling is
a passion that has run through my life. And I'm
a faith person, and I think in storytelling and in faith,
(16:05):
you're you're you're trying to walk people toward healing. And
I think that is probably that's off the cuff. How
I would answer you. That's I want people to examine
their lives and heal and recover. I had some I
had some childhood trauma, and so I and it took
(16:28):
me a long time to process grief and heal and recover.
And so I find that process so rewarding. I found
it rewarding personally, and I find it rewarding any any
small bit that I can play in helping others do that.
(16:51):
So that's my answer. I don't know how good it is.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
No, I love that, I mean because it is true,
like I have a little Jesus As always right here
by computer with me, and it's just a good reminder
from me who I've just now walked back into my
faith Like it's been a it's been a lifelong journey,
but it's just recently in the last few years, as
we're like, you know what, dude, You've seen too much,
(17:17):
you experienced too much, you felt too much. We need
to we need to focus on our energy and who
we are, who I am, and really do it. It's
been so rewarding. But it's funny when you say it,
because it's a lot of people are afraid to approach
life from that viewpoint and certainly to talk about it
and to want to help bothers. Like I love helping
(17:38):
other people. I would rather do that than I would
anything else. And there's a way that I could ever
do it. I just I'm a guy they called to
and I drop everything and I go. And yet oftentimes
you'll see if people do the opposite who.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
You just helped.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
And that's fine because I don't do it to be rewarded,
and it doesn't sound like you do either. How important
was that journey in faith for you as your life?
Speaker 1 (18:03):
As we can get older in life.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Well, okay, so when I turned fifty and I started
this book, so I think that's a you know, I
don't consider myself old, but I have lived some life,
and I think the process of examining your life. It
is so incredibly valuable and that's how I found it
(18:26):
for me looking back, spending it, you know, I mean,
you don't nobody, you don't have to publish it, but
just take and you don't have to take a year,
but even taking an evening or a weekend or just
and think about your life, where you've come from, and
the things that marked you and the things that made
you and the people who you know helped along the way.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
And the.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Very simple truth that I've known for a while is
that I would be dead if Jesus hadn't come and
rescued me. That is my story. And I had I
had trauma and abuse and addiction, and I was on
my way to the grave, and he came and he
got me. That's my story and that's what changed for me.
So I you know, looking at my looking at my
(19:15):
life in a in the in the longer picture, and
just trying to you know, trying to sift it and
pull the I think our culture is so you know,
we want comfort so much, and we don't we don't
want to do the hard thing a lot of time.
I mean me too, I hate the hard thing. I
would much rather eat bonbonds than read a book, but
(19:38):
you know, taking a minute to look at the hard
things and and and and what what you want to
do differently, you know, like looking at how your parents
raised you and how you want to raise your children
different is something we all kind of naturally do. And
we changed that. We changed some things, right, but we don't.
(20:00):
We don't always change the big patterns that are threads
through our lives. So I don't know, I think it's
valuable for everybody.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I think I think it is too, and it's you know,
it's fun. We were I was having this conversation with
a buddy of mine the other night. We were talking
about Eith and different things like that. And believe me,
I'm no saint at all, Even to this day at
fifty six, I'm not a saint. But I think that's
the whole point, is to recognize where your faults lie
and you're always trying to be better. I don't like,
(20:32):
I don't hold anything as somebody who they were twenty
years ago is who they are now, because who knows
what that journey was like for them and what kind
of growth did they go through. I tell you, one
of my best friends of all the time, I hated
you when you were younger, Like, if you walked out
from me to the car, I probably run over you
because you were that kind of person.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Like this, but what a lovely.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Human being has grown into you, and so that speaks
I think that speaks exactly right to what you're talking
about and how important it is, especially right now. I
think we've seen a resurgence of faith, and I know
that a lot of that is under attack, but yet
you've also seen a lot of people more and more speaking.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Out about it. You know.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
I watched Ella Langley the other night when she won
her award for her for choosing Texas, and I was like,
and she mentions God and her faith and stuff. I'm like,
there you go, because that was taboo for the longest time.
So I am happy to see us kind of getting
back to some of that. So what drives you every day?
Speaker 1 (21:33):
What really drives Jody?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Every day when you wake up and it's a new day,
who knows what today brings?
Speaker 1 (21:40):
What drives you?
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I think that after what I would call the worst
season of my life, you know, when I recognized for myself,
when I recognized that I actually do believe that God
is in control, I actually do if he has assignments
for us. So I think what drives me is I
(22:06):
wake up and I try to see what his assignment
is for me for the day, and I try to
I'm an introvert who is easily overstimulated and doesn't I'm
sorry to have to admit, but this is an authentic podcast.
You said, I don't love meeting new people very often,
(22:28):
and then I get into a conversation and it's really fun.
But in general, you know, I don't want to go
to a new party and meet new people. But so
for me, trying to just be present and see if
I can help whoever God brings across my path. And
I work with a lot of writers, and I have
(22:49):
a team that I work with, and I'm trying to
be helpful to my husband and my daughter and my parents.
We live in a multi generational family, so there's a
lot of talking and when I run out of words
pretty fast. So this is an interesting season of my life.
After living overseas for so many years with very few,
(23:14):
you know, zero or very few family members, now I
have a tremendous amount of community in my face, and
it's wonderful. But that's what I'm doing is I get
up and I try to see how I can be
helpful and not totally focused on me, which totally focused
on me is my preference and you know, sort of
(23:38):
my proclivity. So it's a it's always let's raise our
gaze to what's going on in front of us.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Well, I love that, and I think that's good.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I love to talk about being an introvert because that
was the first twenty five years of my life, was
being introverted, being scared. I wouldn't I was a comp
person who wouldn't talk in public, like I was scared
of mind with shadow.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
It's that.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Then becoming a wrestler kind of switched that literally overnight,
like it just it's a weird thing. But even now,
though even after I've done that and I've done theater
and all these things, I still find myself with that
younger version of me in the background at times, like
I'm the same I don't care to go to parties
and just being mingling stuff. I'm like, I think because
(24:24):
I don't worry about judgment anymore, but I know it's
still there.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
And then instead of just being able to go up
and have a conversation which.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Is why a lot of doing this because this is
easier to do and I know that I don't have
to worry about it. I can just focus on the person
I'm trying to get to know and talk to. Yeah,
that introverted this is It's a crazy thing to overcome,
but can also be a very powerful tool in our
especially in our writing, and if you're a writer, it
actually works out really well for being a writer because
(24:52):
you are often isolated. I love the three day weekend away.
I don't know if my girlfriend will go for that,
but I may have to try to run it.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
You can try it, try it.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
So what's the next the horizon for you have in mind?
Or I do?
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Yeah, So I wrote the one about the kidnapping that
was a couple of books ago, and I wrote the
sequel to it while we were in Turkey, but because
of our adoption situation, I wasn't putting anything out into
the world. So I have that one ready to go,
and I have the third one in that series about
(25:30):
half written. So I also write poetry, so I'm getting
you know, I'm putting a poetry book out here, hopefully
in the next year. I've got a kid's bilingual series
that helping helping parents raise their bilingual children, just giving
different resources. So I wrote the first one for my
daughter because she left Turkey at almost four, and I
(25:54):
know she's not going to remember it, like I don't
remember Germany at all. We left when I was three,
three and a half. So I wrote a children's book
for her and got a Turkish illustrator to illustrate out
of our pictures from Istanbul and and then this serious
joy's world started from there. So I'm kind of a
I have a lot of irons in the fire, a
(26:15):
lot of creative, creative ideas.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
That's good though, that's good though I'm not up hearing
that because I feel like sometimes I'm the only one
who does that, and when I talk to other authors,
it seems to be often the case that that's true, especially.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Like what you said. You you found your process. That's cool.
You found what works for you, and you can I
mean really, the only barriers are your girlfriend wants to
see you and and you know how you have to
pay rent or whatever. You know, Like I would be
writing full time too, in a in a cabin and
like you know, the woods if I could. Well, yeah,
(26:55):
but once you find your process, once you find what works,
and you you figure you go through the process. Because
I think the first book is the challenge of most people.
You know, most people. I mean a lot of people
have a great idea and they started and they get
ten pages in or even one hundred pages in, and
then they stopped for fourteen years or you know, it
took me five years to do my first book. And
(27:18):
but once you find it's your it lights you up
inside and it's a it's like a full body fulfillment,
mind and body fulfillment. To put that out there, man,
you just want to keep going.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
I think I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
So I have a this is a this is a
strange question, maybe or because it's probably it may be
just me here. But when you when your first book
came out and people who know you realize you've written
a book, what is their response?
Speaker 1 (27:47):
What was that like you remember any of that?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Like you were you in contact with a lot of
these people, did they know how what was that experience
like for you? Well?
Speaker 3 (27:56):
That was, like I said, twenty years ago, when there
wasn't Amazon, it wasn't even Amazon, no KDP, no self publishing. Yeah,
so it was a it was a completely different experience
from you know, putting a book out last month, when
you know, everywhere you turn around, somebody's putting out a book,
which is wonderful. Don't get me wrong, it's wonderful, but
(28:19):
it's a different cultural moment. I remember the you know,
my parents through a party and and all their friends came.
It was just it was I felt so supported, and
you know, I my grandma sent me flowers and a
note that I still have I still have on my
on my bookcase over here, you know. So it was
(28:40):
a big deal. And then I I worked with a
book launch coach this time, and I realized, oh, all
of his strategies work for first time others. It don't
really work when you're putting out your sixth book and
your friends are like great, but you know, yes, well
buy this one too.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yeah, man, that is so funny to that.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
I tell I used to have a small independent publishing company,
and we did. I did that for about five years
until I just got so annoyed that I was like,
this is not gonna work. And the reason being is
because I realized real quick that authors believe that in
this day and age, especially the new authors believe that
once I write a book, it's gonna become a best
seller and I don't have to do anything. I'm like,
(29:27):
and I tell each one, I'm like, look, when you
publish it, you still have all the work to do.
That's where the work begins. The joys you're writing part,
but it becomes your job after that to promoted. And
only had two authors out of thirty ever promote their stuff,
and lo and behold, shockingly, they've actually sold lots of
(29:48):
copies of the stuff, and it is amazing to me
that it's it's hard, it's a hard journey. But I
love hearing that story because I've only had two PAMs
members support me in my writing, my mom and my son.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Now I've got friends who are like, dude, I'm all
in and I'm surprised they know how to read, but
then they're surprised I know how to write. So it's
it really works well both ways. So you know, it's
one of those type of deals. What is what is
the most joy you do get out of writing? What
is your favorite part of the process?
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Creation? Yeah, coming up with a story, I just and
I get I get ideas. I'm sure you do too.
From all of life, and I'm interested in a lot
of different kind of I haven't written anything in the
same genre yet, I mean, minor all over the place.
And right now I read I don't know if you've
(30:49):
seen the movie Hail Mary.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Oh my god, so good.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
I read it. I read it three or four years ago.
Whenever I read it when it first came Mountains. I
really like Andy Wear. The book is, of course phenomenal.
The move anyway, So I was rereading it a couple
of weeks ago because it's been a few years, and
and he mentioned a science fact, as he does, and
I was so taken with it that I'm like creating
(31:18):
a whole new science fiction story around this one fact,
and that I love it, like I love this part.
And then when you very first start to build it out,
I'm not. I love hearing that you're an outlined person.
I am not. I I just kind of people always
(31:38):
laugh at me, like my characters never do what I
want him to. I say, you're going to do this,
and they go, you know, But I love that part
of creating. And then and then these ideas come out
of nowhere, and then oh, that would be such a
great twist. And how can I get there? And then
(31:59):
you know, it's a lot of work, as you know,
but I think that would be my favorite part. What
is your favorite part?
Speaker 1 (32:05):
It's a creation?
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah, can I can I create this story that I'm
going to love and want to read myself even though
I wrote it, but that I know that this is
what interests.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Me in life.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
This is like how I like watching my movies or
reading my books, because every book I write almost has
a twist it like I don't want the if the
reader ever just truly sees it coming, like they could
guess and go.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
I thought it might go this way, but I wasn't sure.
That's fine.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
It was like, dude, I noticed a knuisence page too,
that this is where we were going with this whole
thing right there. You know, that's disheartening a little bit
to me. And I never want my audience to feel that.
I want them, first of all, I want them to
be so taken with the journey that they're not even
thinking about it at the time until we get it.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
And I don't know, I'd like, I don't know how
good of a writer I am. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
If I'm just so bad I should never pick up
or type another key, or if I'm really good and
I should keep on doing it, because I don't trust
anybody who tells me I could. I just don't. I
just don't believe it. I don't have that faith. I
just know what I enjoy it. I don't want to
stop doing.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure it's more of the second than
the first, but I know that feeling very well.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
I don't know, because it's always the tone of surprise
when they read something.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Right, It's like you wrote this like, wait a minute, yeah, the.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
English language a little bit. Yep, don't let the face.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
No.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I think it's just that when people know you and
in all your whatever I mean, and then and then
because we all talk off the cuff like we do
with our arms and our you know, sidetracks and our
and when you have time to write it and edit
it and fix it exactly the way you want. I mean,
(33:47):
we could all do that if we took the time.
And you know, anyway, I I know, I know what
you're talking about. I've heard that as well.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Oh wow, okay, but it's funny.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Never take offense to it.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I might jokes about it, because that's just my personality.
I just don't take life seriously. And I've been told
by several exts that's a terrible trait to have. But
I'm like, well, I'm not unhappy.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
I don't know what to say, but I do find
uh when we're when we're out here writing it to
me and I know this is this is probably self
self serving, but I love being in being a part
of the author world and being part of the of
a writer's world because most people, as many books are
(34:34):
being published out there, still it's such a small, tidran
group of people that don't do this because writing is hard.
I mean, it's not easy. How do you feel about
being part of that community.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
I love it, I really love it. I love talking
to other writers. I especially love first time authors. We
you left the independent author space, independent publishing space. I'm
still in the independent publishing space. So I worked with
new authors all the time. And I love when it's
(35:11):
their first book because they have poured their heart and
passion into it and they have you know, they've taken
their shot, and they want to do a good job,
and they want to make it better, and we help
them make it better, you know, And I find a
lot of joy in that because I think you mentioned
(35:34):
earlier you know what your your what, your what, your
particular background is, your particular story. If I'm just meeting you,
I have no idea where your story is. I have
no idea where you come from. I'm looking at you
and I'm judging you for you know, like we all do.
You know, I'm making some assumptions about you, and I
think I think story is the most important thing we
(35:54):
have and and telling it to each other. You don't
have to write a book about it, but if you
do and someone gives you the honor of picking it
up and giving you five or six or ten hours
of their life to read about your story, I mean,
it's a beautiful thing and it man, it helps us,
(36:17):
It helps us be better humans to give somebody the
respect and the honor of listening to their story.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I agree with storytelling is the oldest art form. Literally,
the oldest art form on this planet is storytelling. I mean,
life has been based around it. And it does make
me feel when I see somebody has read my book
or they give me a feedback. And whenever you can
ring a review out of somebody it's great, but it
does make you feel good that they spent time and
(36:47):
their money. But more important to me, it's the time,
the investment in what you're creating and what you're writing.
When you're met with people and they meet you and
I don't know how many book signings you've done, when
you're at one of these and they and they tell
you that stuff. How hard is it for you take
a compliment? And I ask the stories, But I'm curious.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
I would say I am better at taking a compliment
now at fifty two than I have ever been in life.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
It has not been an easy thing. I'm trying to
think there is somebody who said to me except the
Bauquet years ago, and I, uh, I think of that.
I because this is you know, I think we devalue
(37:42):
our own efforts. I mean, I think that's a human trait.
And and you, especially in writing your own story, whether
it's your personal story or whether it's a story that
you've made up and poured your blood and sweat and
tears into it, so personal and so vulnerable that you
(38:03):
don't trust to yourself and you have and you struggle
to trust your friends you know, or your family who say,
oh this is great, Well you love me, you know,
so I have gotten I mean, there's a reason nobody's
ever heard of me. I have not sold very many books,
and that's just that's just life. But this last book,
(38:25):
I'm getting a little bit more feedback than I ever have.
And I had somebody like recognize me off of my
author picture. It's never happened to me before. And it
was really, I'm it was, I'm not gonna lie. It
was awesome. Hey, I think I recognized you. Did you
write blah blah blah?
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Yes I did.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
I mean I was stutter stutter stutter. But but that
that person telling me that they really were impacted by
the book I took. I accepted that bookay, I mean, wow,
it was not somebody I'm blood related to.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
That does matter. That matters a whole lot.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
My girlfriend and she was like, she was telling me,
She's like, well, I wrote you a good review. I said,
I know, and you always tell me how proud you me,
and I appreciate all of that.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
I'm not saying I do not, I.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Said, but the difference is that you know me, you
live with me, you love me, so you're hardly gonna
bash me. All right, that's not something that's probably going
to happen. Whether you do that consciously or subconscious or not,
it's not gonna happen. I said, So, I value a
stranger's opinion more because they have nothing to gain. There's
(39:42):
no ulterior motive, there's nothing, it's just then in the raw,
true feelings. If I get a review from somebody that hey,
it started off a little slow, but I really enjoyed
it by the time I got here, I've been looking
for a new author, which is a review I just got.
I'm like, this is my go to I'm like, oh,
that's awesome. I'm like that melts the heart of little
bit way to go.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
But that's what I write is I'm like that that
that feeling that they spent five hundred and something pages
to read this novel and go, I enjoyed my time
with this book.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
It's so good.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
It's so gratifying.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
So do you still so, I know she were talking
about working with independent authors, You still do that? Is
that part of a business that you have or what
is that?
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Yeah? I co founded an independent publishing company called Blue
Hat Publishing, and we're yeah, yeah, we're we are just
coming up on three years. We've had about one hundred
authors that we've helped. We haven't published that many, but
we're you know, we have that many in progress. And
it is so fun. It's a completely new season of life,
(40:52):
completely different than anything else I've ever done.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
You know.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
When we came home from Turkey, I had been in
that stint overseas for fifteen years, I think fourteen fifteen
years something like that. Completely different skill set. You know,
I'm thinking, what kind of a job am I going
to get? I didn't even know what to apply for.
I've been out of the workforce, you know. And it
turns out, man, cross cultural communication, cross cultural living really
(41:20):
sets you up with some skills that are that are
you know, transferable. It's just it was hard for me
to figure it out at the beginning. So so yeah,
now we're at three years and we're just growing because
so many people want to write, so many people want
to put their story out there. It's a cultural moment,
(41:42):
you know, And I always tell them, like, it is
a great time to be a writer. All you need
is time or money. And that did not used to
be the case. I mean when I started and further
back it was not the case. But there's no gatekeepers anymore.
There is certainly the you know, New York mechanism, but
(42:06):
you can go around them now and you can put
out a beautiful book. You can put out a book
that looks like it came from New York with just
a certain amount of time or a certain amount of money.
Phenomenal and it's just wonderful. And then there's you know,
so many scammers in our space. So we don't advertise
(42:32):
at all. We have a bursting business because of referral.
Like we just we don't take any royalties, Like we're
three authors who built a company that we won't wish
we had had. So we walk you through the million things,
but we don't take your royalties, we don't take your rights.
We're a services company. We this is our price, there's
(42:55):
no surprises, and then we will walk you through the
process and you get a beautiful book at the end.
And I mean, there are so few competitors working with integrity,
I would say in the space.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah, yeah, I've been looking for a PR company because
I really want to go all out with black Ridge,
because it's my new one. I just dropped it and
I was like, I know that I'm going that's what
I'm going to do, all the right pr stuff, but
oh my god, the amount of isis how I call
the stammers out there who just come in and like
(43:32):
can help you, and it's only going to cause blah
blah blah. I'm like, I already know I have to
pay money for my book. That's not what I'm looking for.
I'm looking for somebody who can tell me, Hey, this
is where we need to head. You need to head here.
I need somebody who can point me in those directions.
I'm like, y'all are just trying to take my money.
I can do that, al.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
I mean, and you know, you have a lot of information,
you have a lot of you know, you've gone through
a lot of the process. Most of our authors, our
first time authors, no experience, and they're lost and they
they I mean I get emails from our authors regularly. Hey,
so and so reached out and they said blah blah blah,
And I said, no, no, no, no scam, you know,
(44:15):
and we I hate that as well. I just want to, like,
let's just work with integrity with each other. I mean,
that's another not to I'm just to tell you what's
out there. Like a friend of mine runs a business
publishing company, and she and one of her right hand
gal and I were complaining at a retreat about just
(44:39):
what you said, Like, Okay, I would like to promote
my book. I have a budget, but what am I
supposed to do? And all of our authors and both
of our companies are getting scammed left and right, and
they're getting like, if you'll only pay fifteen hundred dollars
for this, and they don't know that this means nothing.
So we put together at a little pr company and
(45:01):
we're like, you know, square boxesn't simple. Here are six
things that we know work. It mayor you know, it
may or may not result in it's never going to
result in the New York Times, but it may result in,
you know, actual sales, and it may result in whatever.
But it's just it's so frustrating to sit in our
(45:22):
chairs and to watch people get scammed who are just trying.
They're just trying to take a swing right with something
so valuable and vulnerable. And obviously justice is an issue for.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Me because because there's so many of these people getting
away with taking advantage of them, and they're out there
I have one. The other day when I was talking
about it's why you said fifty hundred dollars because what
he quoted me and I told my girlfriends, she said,
across my studio probably, I said, I said, what are
you doing?
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Because you're granted?
Speaker 2 (45:52):
I said, well, I got this guy here who's trying
to sell me that his his PR firm is legit.
I said, he's about to offer me fifteen hundred dollars.
That's all I need to pay him. And then he
wants to schedule a call. He said, what are you
gonna do? I said, oh, I'm gonna let him schedule
the call. So, of course he did not already done
on my research. I already knew they were a scammer group.
(46:15):
And then when he I finally answered a couple of
days later, after I just made HI, kept calling and
kept calling and kept calling because he was ready, because
he just knew I was ready by And it's because
I had let him on that way.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
I'm not gonna lie about it.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
I don't feel guilty either, And so he I said,
you know what, I just don't have the money.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
I'm so sorry. I don't have a benefactor anymore. He bailt.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
I mean, I lied, but it's she's like, you just
lie to that man. I'm like, well, he's trying to
scam me. I don't feel guilty. I'm like, if I
lie to you, it's hard me to live with myself.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
But this guy not a problem with.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
It because he has done scammed probably one hundred other
people and their whole company has and that's on the
low side of it. So I wreck I commend you
guys for what y'all are doing there. I think that's
beautiful because because it is hard, it's one of the
reasons we kind of said, you know what, we're gonna
shut this down. And Doc, who was one of my
(47:10):
best friends, is a doctor and I publish all his stuff.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Still.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
I just published this new book and we talk about that.
I said, I'm only going to publish for people who
I know are serious right now because I got so
frustrated before. And my other buddy who I published for,
is like, you need to get back into it. I'm like,
I want to, but I enjoy writing so much. I said,
maybe when I slowed down a little bit, I'll I'll
(47:34):
get back into that and kind of do it.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
But I don't know, I.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Love what y'all are doing and I'm glad and anyway
that I can support that in your company, you just
let me know because I'm all for that.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
I think that's great.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
Well send us anybody who has more money than time.
I mean, that's the you know, you know what I mean.
I mean we are like that's what We're a paid
for services company, but we're I'm really proud of what
we're doing. And I'm really really irritated at some of
the companies that are popping up and people are paying
(48:06):
six eight thousand dollars for AI editing and AI covers
and if you know, if you know anything, it's no,
it's nobody's fault for wanting to get their book out.
But if you know anything, you know what they're doing
and you can recognize it, you know, I just yeah,
burning passion.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
And that's really the problem too, is that, like I
use AI all the time as a tool, but you
can't use AI as you and you know in perfect
reading that and or perpetuating that as who you are,
because it's not it's easy to see.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Like I did that Black Reach book cover on AI.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
Guy taught me how to write problem like I never
knew how to use it, and I was like, well,
I need to learn because I don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
I can't draw, and I don't know any artists.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
All my friends are actually stupid, I guess, or don't
talented learn just musicians. So I don't wan to do
he said, Look, I said, but I don't want anything JANKI.
He said, let me teach you how to use a tool.
He said, if you will look at it as a tool,
you're fine. He said, Now, I can't promise you to
do anything else. I said, well, I've already seen the
(49:18):
other side of it. That doesn't That doesn't help me.
I said, but I need a tool to help me.
He said, well, this is what you do, and so
we and I learned how to use it. But the
problem is that so many people will go, hey, I
need a copy of this. Can you do this right here?
But put my name on it and be done with it.
So I think that's the devil side of it. And
(49:41):
they'll build whole companies because those courses that teach you
that if you don't really want to have to work
another day in your life and you don't have to
do all the work, I'm like, yeah, but when you
read it and you look at it's the same thing.
You're like, you tell, this is a this is a
mechanical software that did this. This is not or digital
so where it is is not a real person. So
(50:03):
when when you're talking to these authors about that, how
do you combat that in their head?
Speaker 3 (50:08):
Well, one thing we've done is we've drawn a really
hard line with human creativity and the words. Yea, so
the words we don't let Ai touch, the words we
don't let Ai write, we don't let Ai edit, we
don't A lot of our authors are coming in like you,
with a mocked up cover. They said, I want it
(50:30):
to be something like this. I don't know if you know,
you can't copyright that. You can't copyright anything, you can't
trademark anything. So it's a you know, there's some things
about AI that with the legislation that is falling behind anyway.
So we create the cover the you know, the old
fashioned way, based on the design that you that you
(50:52):
like with you know, we'll give you some professional advice
on why this is tweaking this and that. So we
have a we have a really hard line on the
words and the output, the product. We could even we
could even at this point design a really good book
in AI, but we're unwilling to feed our author's intellectual
(51:13):
property into AI, do you know what I mean? So
that's what we've heard. Yeah, so we've drawn that line.
But I'm I'm I'm the COO, I run the back end,
I do royalties. I do you know, I'm using AI
like the Dickens for that. And you know, I just
made us an author portal, and I've made us an
(51:34):
admin dashboard and things that, you know, connect to our
Shopify store and let the author know what they what
their sales are, you know, all of that kind of thing.
I think, let's go. We do not want to be
the wholesome body. But I and we as a company
value the human spark in a story. And AI can write,
(51:59):
and it's writing better and better, but it cannot It
does not have the spark of human creativity. It cannot.
It can iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate, copy, copy, copy, but
it cannot create. And I think, in my opinion, we're
going to get to ninety percent AI slop and top
(52:20):
ten percent human creativity cream. And there are there's a
lot of people who are okay with that, and that's fine,
but I this is what I want to read, and
this is what I want to write, and there's enough
of us. I think that, you know, human writing will prevail.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
I think so too, because you can just tell it
when you're reading it, because it sounds robotic, it sounds
just like, first of all, nobody talks that way.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
It just doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Yeah, and the descriptors are usually off, and there's so
many problems with it. But you do find a lot
of people I had he shall not be named, came
up to me with a fiction book and said, hey,
I wrote this and can you can you look at
it edit for me.
Speaker 1 (53:06):
I'm like, yeah, sure, no problem, I'll open it up.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
I was like, dude, first of all, this is I'm like,
how much chat GPT did you use for this one?
Because it sounds like all of it? Yeah, I mean,
that's just that's the idea. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no no, no, that's not the idea.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
If you're going to write, right, yeah, I'm.
Speaker 3 (53:29):
Like, it's okay. You don't have to write.
Speaker 2 (53:32):
If you're going to write, But if you're going to write, write,
and if you don't, then that's fine. You want somebody
to help you write a story like I don't mind ghostwriting.
What let's let's be clear as to what you're doing,
because you try to put that out and then they're
gonna lap.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
That and go, what in the world is this? Because
it came across and.
Speaker 3 (53:52):
There's a lot of I don't know if you've found
this to be true, but we have found there's so
much misinformation and misunderstanding on what I I does and
what it doesn't. And we've had several authors write their
book and then right before they send it to us,
their friend says, hey, just throw it into chat GBT
and it'll smooth it out and you know, edit it
(54:12):
for you, and it it rewrites it. It doesn't like, you know,
change three words that were typos. It rewrites it and
it smooths it out, and so it sounds exactly like AI.
So I think there's just you know, I mean, what
a fun time to be alive. Another giant transition and
let's you know, the rules are behind but we can
(54:35):
make our own rules and figure out ethically what we
value and move forward that way.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
Yeah, And I think you really have to and you
do have to make that call.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
So I'm glad y'all did because I'll think it leans
those authors will be so much more proud of their
work at the end of the day, knowing that this
is something I do versus h I'll let a machine
run and I'll put my name on it, and here
we go.
Speaker 3 (55:01):
Yeah, I just I mean, as I said, I use
AI now every day. Like I am robustly trying to
build some things. But I just am uncomfortable with, you know,
putting your story together and letting a robot, you know, write.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
It because it's not you. I mean, you can and
you can give itameters and that's great. I mean because
I will use it a lot for my outlines if
I need to, Like, I will feed my outline then
and go all right, here we are, this is my outline,
here's my first ten What am I looking at? And
I use it for tool. But it does zero of
my writing.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
That's got to be me.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
It comes across I, it doesn't me and my buddy,
my doctor friend, didn't experiment on that. I'm gonna write
the first chapter of something, and I'm gonna give it
the same stuff, all the basics and see what happens.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
I was like looking at this you see the different lifeless.
Speaker 3 (56:02):
Lifeless, lifeless and not and and again no spark like no,
no giant plot change in chapter twenty seven because that
would be inventive exactly.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
We can't have that, I mean, but that's something some
of it.
Speaker 3 (56:22):
Well what are you? What are you working on now?
Speaker 2 (56:26):
I have Oh my god, I'm I did a stupid thing.
I was like stupid. So I wrote a book called
Bodie Bagsley and the Curse of Pumpkin soone because I
love as a child, I love the whimsical nature of
Halloween and that artwork that came out then when we
were young, because we're about the same age, but you know,
the whimsical view of it back then in the car.
(56:48):
I love that. I've always did my I love that view.
So I wanted something that said, hey, I want to
attach that and I want to attack my stories from
that point of view. I want to create that world.
And then I love JK and how she created Harry
Potter was such a vibrant view and like it breathed
and everything was great, and you didn't she didn't try
to just compress it into a small, little katy story.
(57:11):
I mean, every creature and thing in there, and even
the inanimate objects had a life to them. And that's
what I wanted. And so when I did that, I
was like, but I don't want to be Harry Potter too.
That's not what I want to be here. I want
to be body is a different world. And so I
had the idea, like, I would like that that world
influenced our actual beliefs here in our real world. So
(57:33):
what this thing existed right beside us? And so I
wrote the first book and it was good.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
It was pretty good.
Speaker 2 (57:39):
People loved it, the ones who read it, the few
who read it, and uh, but I wanted to be
a whole series. And so I'm writing book two now.
But I got two chapters in and said, you know what, buddy,
we need a creature. We need a compendium of the
world so I'll know how to keep stuff straight. Well
that turned into a three month journey of writing a
five hundred page compendium for only two books so far
(58:01):
out of a five book series. But up to the
end of the companium and I started outlining the book
now as I see it, based on the world I created.
Because as you creating a compendium, all these new ideas
come flooding in because you got to flesh the world out.
And so the whole basis of the second book changed,
and I'm so happy it did, because I'm six chapters in.
(58:24):
This book is already massive, and it will probably be
the longest thing I've written.
Speaker 1 (58:29):
I mean, and that's fine. I don't mind it.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
But if they work a passion and love, and that's
what I'm taking my out the absolute time. I heard
one time that you should strive to write about six
pages a day is a great good momentum. If you
can get six pages, what could you do? And after
I get done with my outlines and stuff, my writing
goes up to at least ten plus because I'm just
(58:53):
locked in. I can't stop writing once I start. It
is a drug, and so that's what I work, and
that's my goal. So I'm hopefully I have this great
five book series that if only twenty seven people read,
or twenty seven people.
Speaker 1 (59:08):
Got to enjoy this world.
Speaker 3 (59:10):
That's awesome, kid for telling me about it. That is
really my word. That's a big project.
Speaker 2 (59:17):
It is, but and that's something I would never have
done before and thought of doing. Well, that's not true,
I thought of doing it, but I never thought I
could do it, and I've become so assured of who
I am. Now that's like, okay, buddy, we can do this.
I talk to myself all the time and I hear,
what did you say? I'm just still talking to myself.
(59:41):
That's that sort of thing. But well, they'll say, do
you ever talk to yourself while you're righty?
Speaker 3 (59:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (59:48):
I do. Thank god, I'm not going crazy, And I thought, no,
you're not.
Speaker 3 (59:52):
No, it's a creative tech.
Speaker 1 (59:54):
It is, it really is. Oh my god, we've been
here almost an hour.
Speaker 3 (59:59):
Oh yeah, thanks, lovely, lovely conversation. I just loved it.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
I love having you on here. I will go take
a look at your at your company. By the way,
And uh, you know, I get asked all the time
for people, how do I do you publish you more like,
I don't.
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
I only do that for select people, and I don't
even advertise. I just stay help out, but I will
send them your way.
Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
That'd be awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Thank you, because I love what you're doing with blue Hat.
Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
I think that's awesome and I think people these people
need good, honest people who are going to help them
with the right direction.
Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
Yeah, yeah, we're having a good time. We're having a
good time, and I mean, you know, doing things the
right way is its own reward.
Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
It is I sleep better. But thank you so much
for doing this today, Jody. It's so good getting to
know you. You're You've been wonderful and thank you silly show
talking about this.
Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
I enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
I've loved it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
Thanks for them anytime. If you ever want to come back,
I would always love to have you back. So y'all
got something going on and I will tell you this too.
And we're still on the air and it's still recording,
so I can't walk this back, and I'm not gonna
edit it out.
Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
But if you ever have.
Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
Anything you need promoted or advertised or anything like that
you want me to do on my pocket, you just
let me know. Seeing that play it during the things
and ain't hurting my opinions. I don't mind helping out anyway.
I can so do that.
Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Please, Thank you, Thank you so very much, thanks for
coming today. Okay, all right, how are we going you too?
Woo folks. Wow, that was a long one, but a
great one.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
You tell how passionate I am about talking to other
authors and seeing what they've got to I mean their
experience and talking about Jody's experience right there. Can you
imagine living in other countries doing that, have New Spain, Turkey,
back to America and then all that life has in between,
and then member to write that down and share that
with the world and none only that beginning a blessing
(01:01:59):
for a dollar and all of it. It's amazing the
place's life will take you if you let it, I mean,
don't be afraid of it. Go do it. That's the
whole point of life. You got one shot that you
know of. If you gotta dream, go for it.
Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Do it.
Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
And planning writing a book, you need to hit Jody
up and blue hat and let's go get somebody who's
willing to help you and do it the right way.
You have been listening to the FAFO podcast Facts, Truth,
don't Yes, Let's have a go.
Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
On four half a tang again. Josey boots on the wood,
Let the whiskey pat.
Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
This is fay for holler it a loud tugging around
with fiction, get the facts drawn, getting triggers.
Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
Just the cost of the crowd. We're toxic, tut of
the lies.
Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
Truth with proud this is pay for no smooth talk,
no wow, you brought your stories, We brought the real now.
Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Round your mouth. Thedn't read the.
Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
South down fucking around and find out burn it down.
Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
Mm hmmm
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