June 13, 2025 • 17 mins
For decades, classified Nazi documents have remained buried in government archives, hidden from the public eye. In this gripping episode, we unearth the most chilling and shocking Nazi files—records of secret experiments, unreported operations, and disturbing plans that were never meant to see daylight. How much of this was erased from the official history books, and why? Join us as we explore newly declassified intelligence, chilling testimonies, and the enduring legacy of a regime that tried to rewrite history from the shadows.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
All right, let's dive into something that, well, it feels
a bit like unlocking histories hidden files today, and beyond infographics,
we're getting into a really fascinating stack of material, stuff
that's only become fully accessible relatively recently. We're talking records
from the Nazi era and maybe even more importantly, what
happened after the war. Yeah, it's this complex web intelligence
(00:33):
secrets and some really surprising post war activities revealed in
these pages.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Exactly. We've been exploring millions and millions of pages, mostly
US Army, intelligence and CIA records, stuff that just wasn't
completely available until the last few years, really building on
earlier efforts. They definitely shed new light on wartime events,
but I agree, maybe the more compelling part is what
they tell us about the post war fate of certain
figures and the choices, often really difficult choice intelligence agencies
(01:01):
were making as the Cold War started heating up. So
we're really going to look at some of the most
well striking insights these documents offer, pushing us firmly beyond infographics,
like you said, towards the more nuanced reality.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
And the thing is, what makes this stuff so valuable
is that it's often raw intelligence, right, interrogation transcripts, internal memos,
stuff that wasn't filtered for public consumption back then. It
gives you this unique, sometimes kind of messy, but very
real look at history as it was unfolding for the
people on the ground.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Right, I mean think about it. For decades, millions of
these records were just locked away. It took things like
the nineteen ninety eight Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act and
places like the National Archives working hard to really pry
them open. And a huge chunk, especially from the Army's
Investigative Records Repository, the URR, that only came out after
(01:53):
the initial releases.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, and it wasn't like flipping a switch, was it.
You had technical hurdles, old microfilm, weird optical discs.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Oh. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Plus the agencies themselves kind of changed how they interpreted disclosure.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Over time, exactly, more liberal interpretations developed. So it really
took until well into the twenty first century for thousands
and thousands of these pages to actually see the light
of day.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
What did they actually reveal? What's the new evidence?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well, it's on so many fronts, war crimes obviously, the
search for war criminals, how they were provocuted or not,
how they escaped, and maybe the most disturbing part, instances
where Allied agencies actually protected or even used some of
these individuals, you know, because of Cold.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
War priorities using former Nazis.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yes, it doesn't paint one simple picture, but when you
layer this new information onto what we already knew, it
adds critical, sometimes pretty shocking pieces to the puzzle.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Okay, So digging into these pages, who are some of
the key figures that pop up? Do we get new
glimpses or confirmation of old mysteries?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
You get scattered bits like confirmation from Trottele Young Hitler
secretary about details of the final days in the Buk
bunker or Martin Borman's death. Then there are figures who
just remain elusive, like Gestapo chief Heinrich Muller never found
and these records, well, they add more fuel to those
post war rumors about him working for the Soviets or
the West or disappearing completely.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Right, the Mueller mystery continues. But one thread that really
stands out I thought was Adolf Eichman, you know, central
to the Holocaust. What did these records add to his story?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
They show incredibly early intelligence tying him directly to the
camps to slave labor. The US Army Counter Intelligence Corps,
the CIIC, they recognized his significance very early on. We're
talking nineteen forty.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Six, nineteen forty six, that early Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Records show they were actually requesting his apprehension back then,
so they.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Knew he was a major player that early yeah. And
yet he wasn't caught for what another decade and.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
A half exactly, despite renewed efforts, interrogations confirming he was alive,
he just managed to evade detection for years. The records
even mentioned him living under a pseudonym, you know, Otto
Hennen or the Chicken.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Farmer, the chicken Farmer, right.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
But what's really striking are US records from nineteen fifty two.
They basically indicate that, yeah, if they found him, they'd
pass on the information, but they wouldn't take an active
role in apprehending him.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Wow, so hands off by fifty two.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Seems like it, And the documents show all these conflicting
rumors about where he might be. It highlights the sheer
confusion around his escape before you know, the Israelis famously
captured him later on.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
That detail about the US not taking an active role
in fifty two. That's pretty telling, isn't it About shifting priorities.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
It really is. It hints that things were already changing.
And speaking of surprising priorities, this material reveals something really
eye opening about how US intelligence handled former Gestapo officers
right after the war.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Okay, yeah, this is one of the parts that absolutely
stopped me in my tracks when I was reading through this.
We think of them hunting these guys down, but something
else started happening. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Initially sure they were seen as security threats, but surprisingly
quickly a CiCe they started actively using them for intelligence.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Using Gestapo officers, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
As sources on everything from you know, emerging German right
wing movements to ironically communist organizations.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
So they went from wanted men to assets Intelligen's assets.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
In quite a few cases. Yes, Take a guy named
Franz Mildner, former Gestapo officer in Linz. The records show
him actively misleading US authorities about his past. He even
falsely claimed he'd like left fifteen thousand Jews in Vienna untouched,
just made.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
It up, but the records contradicted this.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
There was other evidence, oh damningly so evidence from his
own associates and even from Rudel Huss, you know, the
commandant of Auschwitz. During his Nuremberg testimony, Huss placed Mildner
at Auschwitz, said he was showing interest in the gas
chambers while deporting Jews from Catawais this wasn't some low
level guy. He was involved in mass murder.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Okay, So what happened to him? Did the Allies prosecute him?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Well, the British and the Danes were interested in extraditing him,
questioning him for serious primes, But the CIC records indicated
he escaped US custody in August nineteen forty six.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
He escaped or was let go.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
The record says escaped, although confusingly, another source says he
was held until forty nine. Either way, he wasn't handed
over for prosecution despite clear international interest.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
That raises serious coognaes. Doesn't it about US priorities? Maybe
leniency or just chaos.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
It definitely does, or maybe just chaotic record keeping back then.
But the documents detail other specific instances that really underline
this pattern.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Like Ougen Fisher and Anton Mahler. I remember those.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Names exactly, former Gestapo counter sabotage experts. They went through
denosification proceedings that allied process to try and hold former
Nazis accountable.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Right remove them from influence.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
But after those proceedings both became CIC informants. They were
seen as valuable for their contacts, their experience, even while
being flagged as security risks.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
A walking contradiction, and the detail about Maler is well,
it's extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
It really is.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
So.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Fisher and Mahler fled Munich because they were about to
be sentenced in West Germany based on those denotification findings.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Okay, so they're fugitives from German justice.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
But the CIC records contain a handwritten note from a
special agent. It says Mahler went back to work for
the CIC just days after his disappearance was noted.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Wait, he fled sentencing and immediately went back onto the
US payroll.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
That's what the record suggests. I mean, it got so
blatant that skeptical West German police actually started surveilling the
local CIC headquarters.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
They suspected the US was hiding him.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
They suspected the US was secretly employing these guys who
were supposed to be facing justice. It just starkly illustrates
these complex, often contradictory actions taken in the early Cold War.
You know, the immediate strategic need for intel seemed to
just overwrite accountability for past atrocities in way too many cases.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
And this theme former Nazis trying to regroup, finding influence
and how intelligent agencies dealt with them. That shows up
in politics too, right, not just intelligence.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Gathered absolutely these newly available files exposed significant details about
post war right wing political movements in Germany in Austria
and how Allied intelligence monitored them and sometimes yeah, interacted
with them in surprising ways.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
So was the Bruderschaft in Germany Brotherhood.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yes, this was a secret group late forties early fifties
made up of former high ranking officials officers, and their
vision was well, it was pretty wild. They imagined a
United Europe, maybe neutral, maybe even allied with the USSR,
independent of the.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
US WOW, and the CIC was watching them.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Thousands of pages of surveillance detailed in these files. It
revealed their internal fights, but also some really disturbing links.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
And one of the leaders his past was particularly chilling.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Alfred frankop Gris SS colonel. Records show he witnessed atrocities
like the Warsaw Ghetto uprising and apparently even marveled at
Auschwitz's efficiency iciency horrifying, and the documents show him apparently
flirting with contacts in East Germany with the Soviets, which
understandably made others in his group very uncomfortable given his
Communist leanings. The whole thing eventually fell apart amidst infighting.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
And then in Austria there was Despin the Spider.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Right, another association of former Nazis. They were pushing for
political rehabilitation, a Pan German agenda, and what's incredible is
that these records show it was actually formed inside a
US detention.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Camp, inside a US camp holding thousands.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Of Nazis, yeah, holding about twelve thousand. This group then
linked up with a political party, the vdu It was
explicitly created to capture the former Nazi vote because large
numbers had been amnestied in nineteen forty eight.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
So straight from US to attention to forming political parties
aimed at x Nazis.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Ses essentially yes, and the documents show the CIC was
actively monitoring the vdu its leaders, but interestingly they also
funded an anti VDU press campaign.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
They funded an anti VDU campaign.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, coordinated it with the World Jewish Congress, apparently while
very carefully keeping their own role completely hidden. It's another
example of Allied intelligence actively and often convertly, trying to
shape that post war political landscape, trying to counter extremist resurgence.
Even if the methods were let's say, complex.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
It's fascinating complex stuff. And look, if you're finding these
insights into the hidden corners of post war history as
eye opening as we are, please do consider giving Beyond
Infographics a five star rating wherever you get your podcasts.
It really helps other people discover these deep dives.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, thanks for that. Now, moving to perhaps the most
extensive and frankly pretty troubling revelations in this material, it
concerns the relationships Allied intelligence developed with certain Ukrainian nationalist organizations,
particularly factions of the OUN right.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
These records are incredibly detailed, aren't they covering interactions over.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Decades, thousands and thousands of pages.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
And they don't exactly shy away from confirming the OUN's
very violent history, not at all.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
They document the radical stance, you know, favoring an ethnically
homogeneous Ukraine, the history of violence, including assassinating a Polish minister.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Before the war, and the accounts from the war itself. Yeah,
contained these documents, they're deeply disturbing.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yes, they include accounts from OUNB leaders like Yaroslav Spetsko
expressing support for the quote destruction of Jews and wanting
to bring quote German methods of exterminating jury to Ukraine.
There are accounts detailing Bandera guerrillas killing thousands of Jews,
hacking polls to pieces. One diary entry we saw describe
(11:39):
Bandarist's viewing finding a Jew as a prize catch and
literally slashing them to pieces. It's brutal material to read,
just horrific.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
And despite that history, figures like step On Bandera and
Michael Livitt, they became key figures in the Ukrainian displaced
persons camps after the war. Yeah, and Allied intelligence actively
sought them.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Out, precisely because as their strong anti Soviet stance made
them potentially valuable assets in the emerging Cold War. Even
with that background, Even with that background, yeah, Now, the
records do show the US, especially the CIA and State Department,
had serious reservations about working with Bandera himself. They saw
him as politically outdated, unreliable, noted he was a convicted assassin.
So ultimately, the US largely decided against active collaborations, sometimes
(12:22):
just keeping an agent nearby to watch him.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
But British Intelligence six they didn't share those reservations.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
No, the records show I six went ahead. They collaborated
with Bendera, funded and trained his agents for operations inside Ukraine,
even disregarding US objections.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Okay, so the Brits worked with Bandera. Who did the
US focus on them?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
They focused on the friniak Lebed group. They were viewed
as maybe more moderate or at least having better connections
to the anti Soviet underground inside Ukraine.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
And what did the CIA's own files say about Libed
their handler notes?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
The notes are incredibly blunt and describe him as a
cunning character. They explicitly mention his quote relations with the
Gestapo in Gestapo training. They label him a very ruthless operator.
One note flatly stated neither party, Bendera or Libed is
Lily White.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Wow, Lily, why is putting it mildly given what we
just heard?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Exactly? Yet this very ruthless operator with acknowledged Gestapo ties
became a significant US asset for decades in Cold War
operations against the Soviets, and.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
The consequences of that compromise. They became really star years later,
didn't they.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Oh? Yes, Fast forward to the nineteen eighties, the Department
of Justice starts investigating Lebed because of his wartime activities,
and what happens. The CIA reportedly shielded him. They denied
any Nazi connection, portrayed him as a freedom fighter.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Even though their own files contradicted that completely.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
The declassified files make it crystal clear this denial contradicted
the intelligence the CIA itself had held on his background
for decades. They did it to protect their intelligence program
avoid upsetting the Ukrainian emigrate community. He was never deported,
lived freely in the US until he died. It's just
a powerful, deeply uncomfortable illustration of how Cold War priorities
(14:09):
led to protecting individuals with horrific wartime records.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
It really is. And you know, going beyond infographics isn't
just about digging through these paper trails, is it. Other
recent efforts have used technology finding secrets that have been
literally hidden since the war.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Ended, absolutely underwater standing tech has been huge. It's uncovered
significant wrecks directly tied to Nazi secrets and key wartime events,
like in Norway's Late Tin they found the hydro ferry
sunk in nineteen forty.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Four, the heavy water Fair.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Exactly records from the time, plus samples from barrels they
recovered confirm its secret cargo heavy water critical for the
Nazi atomic bomb program.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
And didn't post war German scientists actually claim that losing
that shipment was basically what stopped their reactor efforts.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
They did claim that yes, made it a decisive moment.
Another dramatic discovery was off Western Australia, the res of
the German raider Cormoran and the Australian warship HMAS Sydney.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Right, that was a huge mystery for a long time.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
And using the Cormoran captain's own account plus these incredibly
detailed scans, you can basically reconstruct the battle. Now.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
So what do they find? How did it happen?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
It shows the Cormoran brilliantly disguised as just a harmless
merchant ship, but it was packed with concealed high tech
weapons hydraulic anti aircraft guns that popped up hidden torpedo tubes,
the works. It lured HMAS Sydney in really close, a
perfect trap. Then it unleached this surprising firepower devastating effect,
(15:38):
sank the cruiser. Almost everyone on the Sydney was lost.
The Cormoran itself was mortally wounded in the fight and
sank later. Just a masterclass in deception and a terrible tragedy.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
And they even found that unfinished German aircraft carrier.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Didn't they The graft Zeppelin Yeah in the Baltic Sea,
scuttled by the Germans, then the Soviets captured it, used
it as a target ship. The scans actually show the
damage from their weapons testing.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Wow. And the stealth you boat.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
U four eighty found in the English Channel, often called
the first stealth.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Submarine because of that coating exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
The scans revealed its secret. This rubber coating designed to
absorb sonar make it basically invisible to detection methods of
the time. Yet despite that cutting edge tech, it was
ultimately sunk by a secret Allied minefield. It didn't know
it was there.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Wow. So okay, pulling back and looking at all of this,
I mean, from the millions of pages of these documents
revealing the tangled web of post war intelligence. The alliance is,
the compromises, to the actual physical secrets being uncovered underwater
with new tech. It truly does take us beyond infographics,
doesn't it. It reveals layer after layer of this incredibly complex,
(16:46):
often really uncomfortable history that we're still piecing together.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Absolutely, these materials they just challenge the simple narratives we
might have learned. They show how that urgent pursuit of
intelligence of national security right after the war, how it
led to significant and yeah, often morally troubling alliances and
compromises using individuals with deeply disturbing pass Providing these unfiltered accounts,
it adds crucial, sometimes very difficult detail to how we
(17:09):
understand that pivotal era.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
And it just underscores how historical truths can stay hidden
for decades, yeah right, waiting for declassification, waiting for technology,
or just waiting for the right researcher to connect the dots.
It really makes you wonder what other critical insights are
still locked away in archives somewhere, or waiting to be
discovered in completely unexpected places like the bottom of a lake.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Absolutely, it's a powerful reminder isn't it that history is
rarely a straight line, and the shadows of the past,
they can extend in surprising and sometimes very unsettling directions
for a very very long time.
All right, let's dive into something that, well, it feels
a bit like unlocking histories hidden files today, and beyond infographics,
we're getting into a really fascinating stack of material, stuff
that's only become fully accessible relatively recently. We're talking records
from the Nazi era and maybe even more importantly, what
happened after the war. Yeah, it's this complex web intelligence
(00:33):
secrets and some really surprising post war activities revealed in
these pages.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Exactly. We've been exploring millions and millions of pages, mostly
US Army, intelligence and CIA records, stuff that just wasn't
completely available until the last few years, really building on
earlier efforts. They definitely shed new light on wartime events,
but I agree, maybe the more compelling part is what
they tell us about the post war fate of certain
figures and the choices, often really difficult choice intelligence agencies
(01:01):
were making as the Cold War started heating up. So
we're really going to look at some of the most
well striking insights these documents offer, pushing us firmly beyond infographics,
like you said, towards the more nuanced reality.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
And the thing is, what makes this stuff so valuable
is that it's often raw intelligence, right, interrogation transcripts, internal memos,
stuff that wasn't filtered for public consumption back then. It
gives you this unique, sometimes kind of messy, but very
real look at history as it was unfolding for the
people on the ground.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Right, I mean think about it. For decades, millions of
these records were just locked away. It took things like
the nineteen ninety eight Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act and
places like the National Archives working hard to really pry
them open. And a huge chunk, especially from the Army's
Investigative Records Repository, the URR, that only came out after
(01:53):
the initial releases.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, and it wasn't like flipping a switch, was it.
You had technical hurdles, old microfilm, weird optical discs.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Oh. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Plus the agencies themselves kind of changed how they interpreted disclosure.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Over time, exactly, more liberal interpretations developed. So it really
took until well into the twenty first century for thousands
and thousands of these pages to actually see the light
of day.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
What did they actually reveal? What's the new evidence?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well, it's on so many fronts, war crimes obviously, the
search for war criminals, how they were provocuted or not,
how they escaped, and maybe the most disturbing part, instances
where Allied agencies actually protected or even used some of
these individuals, you know, because of Cold.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
War priorities using former Nazis.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yes, it doesn't paint one simple picture, but when you
layer this new information onto what we already knew, it
adds critical, sometimes pretty shocking pieces to the puzzle.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Okay, So digging into these pages, who are some of
the key figures that pop up? Do we get new
glimpses or confirmation of old mysteries?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
You get scattered bits like confirmation from Trottele Young Hitler
secretary about details of the final days in the Buk
bunker or Martin Borman's death. Then there are figures who
just remain elusive, like Gestapo chief Heinrich Muller never found
and these records, well, they add more fuel to those
post war rumors about him working for the Soviets or
the West or disappearing completely.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Right, the Mueller mystery continues. But one thread that really
stands out I thought was Adolf Eichman, you know, central
to the Holocaust. What did these records add to his story?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
They show incredibly early intelligence tying him directly to the
camps to slave labor. The US Army Counter Intelligence Corps,
the CIIC, they recognized his significance very early on. We're
talking nineteen forty.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Six, nineteen forty six, that early Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Records show they were actually requesting his apprehension back then,
so they.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Knew he was a major player that early yeah. And
yet he wasn't caught for what another decade and.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
A half exactly, despite renewed efforts, interrogations confirming he was alive,
he just managed to evade detection for years. The records
even mentioned him living under a pseudonym, you know, Otto
Hennen or the Chicken.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Farmer, the chicken Farmer, right.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
But what's really striking are US records from nineteen fifty two.
They basically indicate that, yeah, if they found him, they'd
pass on the information, but they wouldn't take an active
role in apprehending him.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Wow, so hands off by fifty two.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Seems like it, And the documents show all these conflicting
rumors about where he might be. It highlights the sheer
confusion around his escape before you know, the Israelis famously
captured him later on.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
That detail about the US not taking an active role
in fifty two. That's pretty telling, isn't it About shifting priorities.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
It really is. It hints that things were already changing.
And speaking of surprising priorities, this material reveals something really
eye opening about how US intelligence handled former Gestapo officers
right after the war.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Okay, yeah, this is one of the parts that absolutely
stopped me in my tracks when I was reading through this.
We think of them hunting these guys down, but something
else started happening. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Initially sure they were seen as security threats, but surprisingly
quickly a CiCe they started actively using them for intelligence.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Using Gestapo officers, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
As sources on everything from you know, emerging German right
wing movements to ironically communist organizations.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
So they went from wanted men to assets Intelligen's assets.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
In quite a few cases. Yes, Take a guy named
Franz Mildner, former Gestapo officer in Linz. The records show
him actively misleading US authorities about his past. He even
falsely claimed he'd like left fifteen thousand Jews in Vienna untouched,
just made.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
It up, but the records contradicted this.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
There was other evidence, oh damningly so evidence from his
own associates and even from Rudel Huss, you know, the
commandant of Auschwitz. During his Nuremberg testimony, Huss placed Mildner
at Auschwitz, said he was showing interest in the gas
chambers while deporting Jews from Catawais this wasn't some low
level guy. He was involved in mass murder.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Okay, So what happened to him? Did the Allies prosecute him?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Well, the British and the Danes were interested in extraditing him,
questioning him for serious primes, But the CIC records indicated
he escaped US custody in August nineteen forty six.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
He escaped or was let go.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
The record says escaped, although confusingly, another source says he
was held until forty nine. Either way, he wasn't handed
over for prosecution despite clear international interest.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
That raises serious coognaes. Doesn't it about US priorities? Maybe
leniency or just chaos.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
It definitely does, or maybe just chaotic record keeping back then.
But the documents detail other specific instances that really underline
this pattern.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Like Ougen Fisher and Anton Mahler. I remember those.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Names exactly, former Gestapo counter sabotage experts. They went through
denosification proceedings that allied process to try and hold former
Nazis accountable.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Right remove them from influence.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
But after those proceedings both became CIC informants. They were
seen as valuable for their contacts, their experience, even while
being flagged as security risks.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
A walking contradiction, and the detail about Maler is well,
it's extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
It really is.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
So.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Fisher and Mahler fled Munich because they were about to
be sentenced in West Germany based on those denotification findings.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Okay, so they're fugitives from German justice.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
But the CIC records contain a handwritten note from a
special agent. It says Mahler went back to work for
the CIC just days after his disappearance was noted.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Wait, he fled sentencing and immediately went back onto the
US payroll.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
That's what the record suggests. I mean, it got so
blatant that skeptical West German police actually started surveilling the
local CIC headquarters.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
They suspected the US was hiding him.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
They suspected the US was secretly employing these guys who
were supposed to be facing justice. It just starkly illustrates
these complex, often contradictory actions taken in the early Cold War.
You know, the immediate strategic need for intel seemed to
just overwrite accountability for past atrocities in way too many cases.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
And this theme former Nazis trying to regroup, finding influence
and how intelligent agencies dealt with them. That shows up
in politics too, right, not just intelligence.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Gathered absolutely these newly available files exposed significant details about
post war right wing political movements in Germany in Austria
and how Allied intelligence monitored them and sometimes yeah, interacted
with them in surprising ways.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
So was the Bruderschaft in Germany Brotherhood.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yes, this was a secret group late forties early fifties
made up of former high ranking officials officers, and their
vision was well, it was pretty wild. They imagined a
United Europe, maybe neutral, maybe even allied with the USSR,
independent of the.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
US WOW, and the CIC was watching them.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Thousands of pages of surveillance detailed in these files. It
revealed their internal fights, but also some really disturbing links.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
And one of the leaders his past was particularly chilling.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Alfred frankop Gris SS colonel. Records show he witnessed atrocities
like the Warsaw Ghetto uprising and apparently even marveled at
Auschwitz's efficiency iciency horrifying, and the documents show him apparently
flirting with contacts in East Germany with the Soviets, which
understandably made others in his group very uncomfortable given his
Communist leanings. The whole thing eventually fell apart amidst infighting.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
And then in Austria there was Despin the Spider.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Right, another association of former Nazis. They were pushing for
political rehabilitation, a Pan German agenda, and what's incredible is
that these records show it was actually formed inside a
US detention.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Camp, inside a US camp holding thousands.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Of Nazis, yeah, holding about twelve thousand. This group then
linked up with a political party, the vdu It was
explicitly created to capture the former Nazi vote because large
numbers had been amnestied in nineteen forty eight.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
So straight from US to attention to forming political parties
aimed at x Nazis.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Ses essentially yes, and the documents show the CIC was
actively monitoring the vdu its leaders, but interestingly they also
funded an anti VDU press campaign.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
They funded an anti VDU campaign.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, coordinated it with the World Jewish Congress, apparently while
very carefully keeping their own role completely hidden. It's another
example of Allied intelligence actively and often convertly, trying to
shape that post war political landscape, trying to counter extremist resurgence.
Even if the methods were let's say, complex.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
It's fascinating complex stuff. And look, if you're finding these
insights into the hidden corners of post war history as
eye opening as we are, please do consider giving Beyond
Infographics a five star rating wherever you get your podcasts.
It really helps other people discover these deep dives.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, thanks for that. Now, moving to perhaps the most
extensive and frankly pretty troubling revelations in this material, it
concerns the relationships Allied intelligence developed with certain Ukrainian nationalist organizations,
particularly factions of the OUN right.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
These records are incredibly detailed, aren't they covering interactions over.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Decades, thousands and thousands of pages.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
And they don't exactly shy away from confirming the OUN's
very violent history, not at all.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
They document the radical stance, you know, favoring an ethnically
homogeneous Ukraine, the history of violence, including assassinating a Polish minister.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Before the war, and the accounts from the war itself. Yeah,
contained these documents, they're deeply disturbing.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yes, they include accounts from OUNB leaders like Yaroslav Spetsko
expressing support for the quote destruction of Jews and wanting
to bring quote German methods of exterminating jury to Ukraine.
There are accounts detailing Bandera guerrillas killing thousands of Jews,
hacking polls to pieces. One diary entry we saw describe
(11:39):
Bandarist's viewing finding a Jew as a prize catch and
literally slashing them to pieces. It's brutal material to read,
just horrific.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
And despite that history, figures like step On Bandera and
Michael Livitt, they became key figures in the Ukrainian displaced
persons camps after the war. Yeah, and Allied intelligence actively
sought them.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Out, precisely because as their strong anti Soviet stance made
them potentially valuable assets in the emerging Cold War. Even
with that background, Even with that background, yeah, Now, the
records do show the US, especially the CIA and State Department,
had serious reservations about working with Bandera himself. They saw
him as politically outdated, unreliable, noted he was a convicted assassin.
So ultimately, the US largely decided against active collaborations, sometimes
(12:22):
just keeping an agent nearby to watch him.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
But British Intelligence six they didn't share those reservations.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
No, the records show I six went ahead. They collaborated
with Bendera, funded and trained his agents for operations inside Ukraine,
even disregarding US objections.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Okay, so the Brits worked with Bandera. Who did the
US focus on them?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
They focused on the friniak Lebed group. They were viewed
as maybe more moderate or at least having better connections
to the anti Soviet underground inside Ukraine.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
And what did the CIA's own files say about Libed
their handler notes?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
The notes are incredibly blunt and describe him as a
cunning character. They explicitly mention his quote relations with the
Gestapo in Gestapo training. They label him a very ruthless operator.
One note flatly stated neither party, Bendera or Libed is
Lily White.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Wow, Lily, why is putting it mildly given what we
just heard?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Exactly? Yet this very ruthless operator with acknowledged Gestapo ties
became a significant US asset for decades in Cold War
operations against the Soviets, and.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
The consequences of that compromise. They became really star years later,
didn't they.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Oh? Yes, Fast forward to the nineteen eighties, the Department
of Justice starts investigating Lebed because of his wartime activities,
and what happens. The CIA reportedly shielded him. They denied
any Nazi connection, portrayed him as a freedom fighter.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Even though their own files contradicted that completely.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
The declassified files make it crystal clear this denial contradicted
the intelligence the CIA itself had held on his background
for decades. They did it to protect their intelligence program
avoid upsetting the Ukrainian emigrate community. He was never deported,
lived freely in the US until he died. It's just
a powerful, deeply uncomfortable illustration of how Cold War priorities
(14:09):
led to protecting individuals with horrific wartime records.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
It really is. And you know, going beyond infographics isn't
just about digging through these paper trails, is it. Other
recent efforts have used technology finding secrets that have been
literally hidden since the war.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Ended, absolutely underwater standing tech has been huge. It's uncovered
significant wrecks directly tied to Nazi secrets and key wartime events,
like in Norway's Late Tin they found the hydro ferry
sunk in nineteen forty.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Four, the heavy water Fair.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Exactly records from the time, plus samples from barrels they
recovered confirm its secret cargo heavy water critical for the
Nazi atomic bomb program.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
And didn't post war German scientists actually claim that losing
that shipment was basically what stopped their reactor efforts.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
They did claim that yes, made it a decisive moment.
Another dramatic discovery was off Western Australia, the res of
the German raider Cormoran and the Australian warship HMAS Sydney.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Right, that was a huge mystery for a long time.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
And using the Cormoran captain's own account plus these incredibly
detailed scans, you can basically reconstruct the battle. Now.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
So what do they find? How did it happen?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
It shows the Cormoran brilliantly disguised as just a harmless
merchant ship, but it was packed with concealed high tech
weapons hydraulic anti aircraft guns that popped up hidden torpedo tubes,
the works. It lured HMAS Sydney in really close, a
perfect trap. Then it unleached this surprising firepower devastating effect,
(15:38):
sank the cruiser. Almost everyone on the Sydney was lost.
The Cormoran itself was mortally wounded in the fight and
sank later. Just a masterclass in deception and a terrible tragedy.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
And they even found that unfinished German aircraft carrier.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Didn't they The graft Zeppelin Yeah in the Baltic Sea,
scuttled by the Germans, then the Soviets captured it, used
it as a target ship. The scans actually show the
damage from their weapons testing.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Wow. And the stealth you boat.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
U four eighty found in the English Channel, often called
the first stealth.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Submarine because of that coating exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
The scans revealed its secret. This rubber coating designed to
absorb sonar make it basically invisible to detection methods of
the time. Yet despite that cutting edge tech, it was
ultimately sunk by a secret Allied minefield. It didn't know
it was there.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Wow. So okay, pulling back and looking at all of this,
I mean, from the millions of pages of these documents
revealing the tangled web of post war intelligence. The alliance is,
the compromises, to the actual physical secrets being uncovered underwater
with new tech. It truly does take us beyond infographics,
doesn't it. It reveals layer after layer of this incredibly complex,
(16:46):
often really uncomfortable history that we're still piecing together.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Absolutely, these materials they just challenge the simple narratives we
might have learned. They show how that urgent pursuit of
intelligence of national security right after the war, how it
led to significant and yeah, often morally troubling alliances and
compromises using individuals with deeply disturbing pass Providing these unfiltered accounts,
it adds crucial, sometimes very difficult detail to how we
(17:09):
understand that pivotal era.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
And it just underscores how historical truths can stay hidden
for decades, yeah right, waiting for declassification, waiting for technology,
or just waiting for the right researcher to connect the dots.
It really makes you wonder what other critical insights are
still locked away in archives somewhere, or waiting to be
discovered in completely unexpected places like the bottom of a lake.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Absolutely, it's a powerful reminder isn't it that history is
rarely a straight line, and the shadows of the past,
they can extend in surprising and sometimes very unsettling directions
for a very very long time.
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