We're back: Jobs, Life & The Path Forward

In this episode, Parth & Abdul return to the podcast to discuss their latest life updates: Parth working in a sell-side role at a bank, with Abdul working in a buy-side position with a fund manager, both based in Sydney.

They dive deeper into their respective roles, give advice for students looking to break into the industry, and discuss the plan moving forward.

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Welcome back to the Investors Thery podcast, where we helped the work smarter and
harder by providing weekly market updates andanxiety. So before we get started and
dive into anything, I think Ilike to start off with a little apology
because I believe I have not beenon this podcast for a few months now,
and I'll let Abdul say hey hispeace in a little later, but

(00:26):
just in my defense although it's notjustified. The reason why this podcast has
been quite stale and there have notbeen a lot of new uploads lately is
because I moved from Melbourne to Sydney. I graduated university and I got a
job in a self side institution inSydney, and Abdul, do you just

(00:49):
want to tell them why you havenot been online as well? So if
you guys noticed I was uploading,I was kind of picking up the load
while a part moved to Sydney andso me I was back home in the
UAE planning to study and then Ikind of fell on the same trap.
I also moved to Sydney, uhbut started working in a in in in

(01:11):
the Byside and I started just overa month ago. So yeah, so
since then, kind of you know, we haven't been uploading at all,
but me and parts have been youknow, keeping in communit like, you
know, keeping in touch, andwe do you know, that's what we're
recording now, Like we do havehopes that to really bring us back in

(01:33):
in in strong fashion too. Butof course, yeah, like this episode,
before we get into you know,the rhythm and back to how we
used to upload, we might bethought it was you know, good,
just let you guys know what we'redoing, where we get where we're getting
up to and and kind of yeah, just it's a catch up just right.

(01:53):
Yes, both Bill and I arenow based in Sydney. I've been
working in a bank for the lastsix months or so. So I think
i'll talk a little bit about whatI do or what I what I understand
I'm supposed to do because I'm stillpart of the grad program and aill will
sort of act as a interviewer tokind of better understand and hopefully better help

(02:16):
you guys understand. I still don'tunderstand what part. So I'll be learning
with you guys, So I'll beasking you questions. Yeah, and then
we'll switch roles and do the samefor so Yeah, I'll start my official
role as a graduate analyst on theequities execution desk for Asia Pacific in a

(02:38):
bank. So what my role entailedessentially is, let's think of a client,
right, client A, they wantto buy a ten million shares or
ten million dollars worth of shares ofApple. Now, in my role,
it would not be Apple because I'mtreating Asian equities, but let's just use

(03:01):
Apple for the sake of an example. If they want to buy Apple,
they will come to us or cometo me as a trader and say,
hey, can you buy ken?You buy ten million dollars with a shas
in Apple for us, and Iwill say sure, and then I will
go into the market and execute thattrade. And so why the execution trader?

(03:22):
Now, there's a lot of nuanceto that role. Obviously, it's
not as straightforward as it sounds.There's a lot of algorithms involved in terms
of the different styles of execution.Working in a bank also has a lot
of compliance and regulatory overhead that youneed to comply with. So if you're
buying a set in stock, youcan't materially impact the price of that stock

(03:45):
in the market, or you know, you might be liable, or you
might be putting the bank in aposition of risk. There's a lot of
other nuance that's involved in the role, but yeah, the basic gist of
it is it's a client facing role, as I think role is in the
cell side or in a bank,and you're essentially trying to help your client

(04:08):
execute to the best of your abilities. Right, Okay, my first yeah
jumped at me because you know whenwe when I see you during the day
and you don't want to go grablunch, you're not allowed to grab lunch
until the other trader was back onthe desk, Right, Can you explain
why that is? Why is it? Why does somebody have to man the

(04:31):
desk at all? Like, whydoes there have to be someone at all
times? Yeah? I mean that'sa great question. Right, Because when
I was doing my internship, whichwas not in trading by the way,
My internship was an investment banking,then I could have like an hour long
lunch and it didn't really matter becauseI knew I'd be in the office till
three a m. And there wasno point in having a shorter lunch.
But if I could have a longerlunch, but in this case, I

(04:55):
need to be on desk at alltimes pretty much unless there's someone else there
to cover me. And that's becausethe markets are open at a certain time
of the day. So I'm anexecutator in equities and let's use Australia and
Market as an example. The marketopens at ten am and shuts that four
ten pm. So during those hoursis when we make money, right,

(05:19):
is when we make our commissions fromtrading. And it's a client comes to
us during those hours, we needto be there on desk to respond to
them within seconds. And when Isay within seconds, I mean within literal
seconds. What are the the complications? If you are late, then they'll

(05:39):
go to a different broker, right, they'll go to a different bank because
what we offer, do they dothey post an order? And is it
so do they come to you firstand then kind of go to the next
broker if you don't reply, oris it they post an order and the
quickest broker takes the job. It'sa lot of things, right, So
for example, say they'll send usan order, because we don't have to

(06:00):
manually accept every order. The ownerswill just go through our algook stack and
go into the market. Automatically alot of the times, okay, and
them that we just have to watch. The part of the role is to
babic babies in those algorithm make surethey're doing what they're supposed to be doing.
And I mean that's for the lastfew months, just understanding what the
algos are supposed to be doing inthe first place, so I can babysit

(06:21):
them, okay. And what thecomplication comes is because there's so many markets
in Asia right there Australia, there'sHong Kong, there's Japan, there's India,
and there's Taiwan, there's China.A lot of these markets don't operate
the same way. They're very different. There's different rules. So for example,
if we use Australia, it's apretty vanilla market. It's straightforward.

(06:43):
There's no lot sizes, there's noodd lots, there's no short selling rules,
so everything's pretty straightforward. But ifyou go to Hong Kong, for
example, Hong Kong has a lotof sizes, which means you can't just
buy a single share of the company, you must buy one hundred for example.
Okay. Hong Kong also has anuptick rule, which means if you're

(07:03):
short selling a stock, you can'tjust short sell the stock if the price
is going down. You can onlyshort sell it if the price sticks up,
and known as the uptick rule.Right, So there's a lot of
different nuances. And that's just acouple of examples of Hong Kong, and
that just varies across all these differentAsian markets. So it gets a little

(07:24):
complicated. But the reason why Ineed to be on desk is because if
I'm not on desk and if somethingbreaks, we could lose a lot of
money if our algos function, ifour augos malfunction and it is our fault,
then we need to make up thatP and L difference for the client
essentially. And can you tell mebecause so obviously like what is procedure if

(07:47):
Algo is broken? What do youdo? Do you who do you report
it to? How quick does itget fixed? And in your few months,
hasn't Algo broken or has you knoweverything been saying smoothly, I mean
i'll go. I would say,i'll goes have not broken. But you
know that we do have tech issues. I think every every every firm in

(08:07):
every industry has tech issues. Sothere are times where tech goes down for
whatever reason. You know, ourserver connection is lost because of whoever was
providing that server connection had an issuewith the restart or something. And in
those cases, the best thing wedo is we tell all our clients to
trade away, which means you goto trade with someone else for the time
being. Okay, makes sense,and that you're losing money, right,

(08:31):
you're actively using money, but atthe same time you're kind of maintaining that
relationship because you're being honest and tellingthem that if you trade with us right
now, you probably won't get anybills in the market. That makes sense.
So and yeah, so the peoplelistening you trade on the Bloomberg Turmo

(08:52):
is that right? So do youexecute trades on there or do you have
your own platform for your firm?Uh? So Bloomberg terminal is more for
people, that is sure. Soyeah, I mean Bloomberg. I think

(09:13):
everyone knows or has heard of Bloombergthe news website, right, and that's
a part of it. But whatthe Bloomberg terminal is is it's used by
all banks and all people in markets, anyone in banking. It's it's used
to an extent. And what itdoes is it essentially allows you to connect
with anyone in the industry. Soif if anyone has a Bloomberg terminal,

(09:35):
you can talk to them directly.There's no you know, there's no issues
that you can just ping them directly. And all people in markets use the
terminal to chat. It's it hasreal time market data for all markets across
the world, for all stocks.Now you do have to pay for this
data, so the company does payfor that. Yeah. I think the
cost is that a company must paytwenty five thousand US dollars per user for

(10:03):
each terminal. So if you haveten traders on the floor, that's a
quarter million dollars just for the terminals. And then there's market data on top
of that. And there's also abunch of other software that you must use.
So we have like two or threedifferent execution platforms that we connect through
m HM and yeah, so thetech does get you know, the tech

(10:24):
that does add up, and Iassume the costs add up to which I'm
not too familiar with the costs tothat that sense. That's interesting. Yeah,
So just are you enjoying the role? Oh yeah, no, it's
really fun. It's really it feelslike an interview. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, I just people like likeexecution trade because like, yeah, just

(10:48):
just for for Yeah, it's avalid question because I mean people can like,
what do you okay when so isexecution traded to me? Right?
Without that the explanation that you justgave, my first impression would be,
you know, something that's literally justexecuting trades, and that could maybe get

(11:09):
tedious right just from from you know, at a first glance, and maybe
do you see variety in your dayto day work? Is it the same
thing every day or you Yeah,is there any variety to your work when
through Yeah, that's a very fairassumption, right because I when I when

(11:33):
I had not worked in the rolebefore and I was coming in, that's
what I thought the role was goingto be. Yeah, And it's not
just that it's a part of therole. There's a lot of different kinds
of execution trading. So there's lowtouch, there's high touch, and there's
PT or program trading, and allthose are different, right, So low
touch is more so what I explained, which is the client center the orders

(11:56):
It goes to your algos and you'rejust kind of babysit the algos. So
you don't even have to and onlyreally accept those orders they just go through.
And then there's high touch, whichis you kind of have to handhold
the client through the entire process.So say if you're the client and you're
like, hey, what's happening inthis in this stock today? You know
what's happening with the company, andthen you kind of tell them your thoughts

(12:16):
on the company blah blah blah.You walk them through it, and that
is more time consuming, but thatrequires you to have more knowledge about the
market and the company. And thenthere's program trading, which is a bit
more I prefer to call it portfoliotrading because it makes more sense in my

(12:37):
head. But it's essentially you tradinga basket of stocks instead of individual stocks.
So a client will be, youknow, sending you a basket of
stocks and say, hey, Iwant to trade this basket. These are
the instructions to trade the basket.And sometimes there'll be a bit more lenient
with the instruction, so they'll giveyou the discretion on how you should trade
it. Sometimes they'll give you verystrict instructions. But the thing I like

(13:00):
about both high touch and program tradingcompared to low touch is you as the
trader, as the execution trader,have a lot more discretion. So most
of the time, so a clientwill be like, hey, I want
this done and do it whatever youwant. You know, just execute it.
Get me the fails by the endof the day, and at that
point you didn't have to play aroundwith it. Yeah you have some liberty.

(13:20):
Yeah that's cool. Yeah, youhave some liberty, and you're actually
trading the market. You can seewhat sort of impact you're having on the
market. Ideally not much, Iguess, and I guess like you also
get to get a lot of exposureto market, to the markets, right,
Yeah, you get a lot ofexperience, right because you kind of
have to make a prediction intra dayof where you think the market is going
to go, trade according to that. Now, obviously you can't you can't.

(13:41):
You can't make so many assumptions becauseyou can be too far away from
what the client expects. But ifyou can give them a better price in
what the market was that day,then you know, that's a that's a
big win. That's interesting. Andthen again, because you're in a graduate
program. What's interesting. You toldme you're the only graduate only in your

(14:01):
team, right, you're the onlygraduate team. I am the only grade
in my team. Yeah yeah,And how big is are grad coport?
If if you know THATSS bank acrossacross the across the bank in Sydney,
yeah, oh in Sydney, it'sonly three grads totaled, three guys in
Sydney, yeah, right, acrossthe bank globally effect two hundred. Yeah.

(14:24):
Well that's big. Wow. Allright, maybe let's shift to what
I do. So, yeah,what do you do? Man? Right?
So? So no, so Iwork in my side. It's a
fund manager and a trustee group,i'd say, and my role so I'm
a corporate trust graduate, right,And so again I'm pretty new to this

(14:48):
rule, only only a month anda half in and only really have started
to really get real responsibility this lastweek, two weeks, two weeks ago,
right, So because in the firstweeks, you know, it's pretty
slow getting all your tech sorted,all the access and you know that takes
a bit of time and then sometraining and whatnot. Only the last two

(15:11):
weeks I've been getting some responsibility.And then obviously he's learning about the company
what they do, and it's myunderstanding. So there's there's there's different divisions
at this company I work at,right, so I'm in corporate trust and
basically, you know, it's it'sa very integral part and you know institutional
investing, so we really work withinstitutions, right, and corporate trust our

(15:37):
companies, the trustee. Right.It involves in managing you know, the
fiduciary responsibilities in regards to like youknow a lot of final financial transactions regarding
you know, bond securities and otheryou know, financial products, and so
corporate trust is big, it's reallybig. What I'm doing is is I'm

(16:00):
more in the securitization process. Imean the more in the securitization realm within
corporate trust. And so securitization forthe listeners is just a process of it's
a purse of transforming you know,illiquated financial assets like all the loans,

(16:21):
so they have you know, mortgageback loans or even have other asset back
loans, credit cards, and youkind of package them into securities some things
that you can actually like investment vehicles, right, and these are sold to
investors. So banks like you know, banks like you guys part you guys
banks and even non bank lenders too. That offer loans to you know,

(16:45):
retail and also institutional investors package theseloans into tradeable securities and that process is
caused securitization, right, and theseare then sold to investors. It provides
the quinity to the UH, tothe rision, to the originator of the
assets, and where we come intoplays like kind of the middle man.
We kind of we kind of takethese securities and kind of manage that on

(17:11):
the behalf of the lender, right, So that that's that's that's the world
I'm in at the moment, andsecuritization is big, right. So as
as a securitization analyst, I'm ananalyst yet I'm a graduate. But the
natural progression so like for me,what I expect I think my role to

(17:33):
to to evolve into would be towell, I'll tell you what I do
today, but what I expect myrole to evolve into in the year in
my graduate program is to eventually kindof there's various responsibilities right throughout the life
cycle of the securitization transaction. First, you know, the due diligence of

(17:53):
the underlying assets because you know,you have to know what type of loans
that are. You know, thatback these these these securities, you know,
the the risk profile these loans,the maturity dates and whatnot. You're
also got to look at historical performancemetrics and macro economic macro economic indicators because

(18:15):
you know, with loans you haveto be look at interest rates. You
know, that's a big thing.So really looking into macro economic indicators.
Deal structuring too, I think,you know, packaging these loans, kind
of really finding an optimal structure forthe securitization transaction to meet I mean the
needs of both the issuer, sothe non bank lenders, the banks,

(18:37):
and also the investors. And thennot to what I do is you know,
there's a lot of again with securityTHI you know, if you look
back at the GFC, right,a big part of the GFC was you
know, you know, you knowthese loans that were being given out,
you know, they were very riskyloans, right, and a lot of

(18:59):
banks we're using the securitization model wherethey were packaging these really high risky loans
kind of you know, putting themin a bundle, framing it to you
know, look pretty and everything,and then selling these off to investors and
then kind of passing on that riskfrom the banks to investors, right,
so they were selling all the shittyloans to investors without really reporting the the

(19:25):
you know, the the underlying assets, the underlying well under the loans and
the loans structure, the cash flows, the profiles of the of the lenders
themselves. So obviously since then there'sbeen a lot of compliance checks, and
especially here Australia, a lot ofthese securitization deals have to be reported to

(19:47):
the RBA. Right So right nowI'm I'm pretty much working right from the
bottom and I'm in the compliance I'mdoing the compliance part of the securitization process,
and so my role is really atthe most the last two weeks,
especially what I'm doing right now,I'm really working closely with UH the r
b A, and I'm kind ofreporting theseanization deals to the r b A.

(20:08):
So I'm reporting the you know,the all the loans that back these
security these securities, all the youknow, the cash flows, the timing
it comes in. So this rolereally well, I really have to take
a lot of data. So Iget a lot of data coming in and
a lot of these banks and nonlenders, we work with a lot of

(20:30):
clients all these you know, banksand non lenders, they kind of send
us, I'll crap ton of information, right that really that's that that that
that that's about there about their theirtheir their their securities that they're selling to
investors. We didn't have to kindof comprehend all that kind of you know,
separate that you know, cash flow, loans, cash flow files,

(20:52):
loan files, and security files.And then also it's another one cash flow
yeah, cash cash throw, casualloan, security and transaction to the four
files. And then what then Iwhen what I do is then I have
to report them in a timely mannerbecause like every day there's there's new there's
like you know, tens tens ofsecurity deals that that I have to report

(21:15):
to the RBA that have a deadlineby five pm. And I have to
take in all this data, kindof format it in a way that RBA
accepts and and report that. Sothat's what I'm doing now, just more
of the compliance area, just workingclose to the rb A team again,
just in this for two weeks now, and naturally I'm in the securitization team,

(21:40):
and then naturally I'll be more involvedin the process in the secuitization process,
but that's been what I do tomy best of my understanding. I
hope I didn't mess anything up there, but yeah, that's pretty much what
I do. There are any questions, the best I can. Yeah,
thanks for that. That was actuallya much more comprehensive explanation that I expected,

(22:03):
and definitely learned something about corporate trustsI didn't now, But I mean,
I don't know your experience about inthe in the one month you've been
there so far, because I rememberwhen I first joined my role, I
hand on heart can tell you Icouldn't. I was would not be able
to tell people what my role wasfor the first month because you never ever

(22:23):
feel like the factors involved in mycase, because we were waiting for a
team member to join. But yeah, the first month is usually just getting
your accounts set up, going throughthose mandatory compliance trainings, getting your accounts
and text that I'm having meetings withall the team members domestically internationally. So
how do you find the role?Found the role so far in your first

(22:45):
month, because you know, youobviously come from a very crypto background.
Definitely, Yeah, so my firstmonth, Uh, I'm I love the
people I work with, I'll saythat first and for most people I work
with are great and for the firstmonth, because I had a lot of
time in my hands, I hadand I got to meet the whole team.
I got to meet the whole securitizationteam. And what I explained today

(23:08):
is what they explained to me prettymuch in the first week. They pretty
much told me, this is whatwe do in our team, and you're
the graduates, so you're doing theyou know, the kind of boring work
at the moment, and this isstuff that you know, I guess as
a grad you have to do.And the guys that were explaining it to
me were once in my shoes,you know, they were once grads and

(23:29):
they were doing what I was doing. So so how to find the grad
program. It's great because unlike you, our grad cohort is pretty big.
So we have I think twelve twelvegrads in Sydney. Okay, so but
four times the size of yours.And and I guess we do we do.
It's cool because we're all learning atthe same at not the same pace.

(23:52):
We're all doing different things, right. So again, the company I
work AT's pretty a lot of youknow, a lot of different teams you
can imagine. And I'm the onlyad in the securitization team. We haven't
ed in, like you know,in in wealth management, we have a
grad that's doing sales. Some gradis doing I can't tell you, but

(24:14):
there's a lot of grads. Youcan imagine there's one grad at your team.
So twelve grads, twelve diferent teams. And every time we get to
catch up, I get to learna bit more about what they do,
right, And it kind of justI get to learn through exposure. And
I kind of really like that,and so I really appreciate the grad cohord.

(24:36):
My team's awesome and and the workspretty interesting. I mean right now,
the work is it's awesome working withclients already know, working with clients
like helping them report to the RBAand working close with the RB itself is
pretty interesting and stuff you know I'mworking with, Yeah, there's a bank
couster, so that's pretty cool initself. And coming back from coming from
a crypto background where a lot ofthe people that I worked with in crypto,

(25:03):
how can I say that a lotof people work in crypto kind of
they didn't really come from a traditionalfinance background, and a lot of people
you know, are self employed.A lot of people you know kind of
it maybe came from like a techbackground too. I think a lot of
people I worked with came from atech background mainly, right. And again,

(25:23):
the way they they do, theway they carry themselves, the way
they communicate is different to people atwork. Right. It's a different environment
too. Cryptos very fast paced.And again there's it's there's no weekends on
crypto, right, so people pingyou on. And also the time difference.
It's twenty four cent market here.I hate the pleasure when it's you

(25:45):
know, five pm. I walkoff and that's it, and I can
switch off to work, right andI can do whatever I want to.
But a crypto, there's no sleepingin crypto. You know, you can
imagine, right, you know,that's like this, You're always, yeah,
you're always You're always plugged in,You're always working, and it's it's
I appreciate the difference, you know, it just takes some time to adjust.

(26:08):
And also the crypto ethos. Imean, I think that the people
are also pretty cool crypto, I'llbe honest, the the you know,
the cultish vibes working with you know, some projects, it's pretty fun,
I think with some some communities gettinginvolved there. Coming to the more you

(26:29):
know traditional I completely agree. Imean I've had the privilege of also,
you know, having experience in acrypto firm as well as in a traditional
financial world institution, both at mycurrent role and my internship previously, and
there's a lot of differences. Butwhat I've seen recently is there's also starting

(26:52):
to be a little bit of overlap, right, which comes from the kind
of people you work with, right, Because regardless of the industry, think
about it in a way of ifyou go into crypto and you know you've
done quite well, you will probablya high achiever, you know, in

(27:14):
life and most things in life.And similarly, breaking into high finance is
not an easy task, especially outof UNI, and a lot of the
people you're surrounded with are people thatyou know, show up to work because
they're there to get shit done andthey and they get that ship done in
the in the ten hours they're ondesk. That is, Yeah, like

(27:34):
minded people you know you thurroughound yourselfwith, Yeah, exactly. A lot
of the conversations I have at workare you know, are related to finance
or related to markets. Sometimes Italk to them about crypto, which is
fun because I don't expect to havethose conversations at what would I do?
Yeah, And they're happy to talkabout it because it's still part of our

(27:56):
job to know about all all markets. Does include trip, it does.
It's a it's a big markets,the three chill market, right, it
deserves the attention. And yeah,me too. Like I've I've been able
to talk about crypto to some ofthe portfolio managers at my company and they
seem pretty pretty accepting. You know, it's a we don't have a crypto

(28:19):
desk at the moment, we don'tdon't think anytos yeah, and we don't
offer crypto. Yeah, we don'tadvise people to to buy crypto and it's
not in our investment philosophy. ButI think they're there there, there's there's
the appetite is demandford and I thinka lot of portfolio managers are kind of

(28:40):
I hope pretty uh pretty you know, open to to start offering the these
uh these assets, you know,the these crypto Yeah, but moving away
from crypto because I know we doquite a bit yeah deep on our first

(29:00):
episode back. But one thing youmentioned was that you get you know,
you get into work, you finishwork at five five thirty, then you
can do whatever you want. Andobviously our work hours are slightly different.
But yeah, I agree because whathas helped what, you know, having
a schedule does help. Having somethingto do every single day. Yeah,

(29:23):
helps a lot. With mental Idon't want to say mental health, but
just mental clarity. Mental health isreal, mental health, say mental health.
Yeah, okay, mental health hasreally helped mental health. Yeah,
just knowing that, you know,you have to get up at this point,
no matter what how to show upto your desk. You got to
support the team. And what Ifound that helped me achieve that is my

(29:48):
physical health, which I've started tofocus a lot on over the last six
months. Congression something, you know, good progress something. Yeah, thanks
man, I appreciate that a lot. And uh yeah, I mean what
what helped me a lot is goingto the gym. I started. I
mean I've always been going on andoff the gym. It's always been a

(30:10):
it's always been like I will allbe on for six months and I'll be
really good, you know, dropa lot of weight, gain a lot
of muscle, eat a lot ofprotein and then point Yeah, you plateau
for a bit and then you justgo back to your old habits. Yeah,
but I think this time, thistime, it is different, as
we like to say in the industry, Yeah, this time is different,

(30:33):
but it is different. This time. It is different for sure, because
I also picked up running from Januarylast year. And I hate running,
I'll tell you that, but Ithink it gives you a different kind of
satisfaction after you finish a run,a kind of satisfaction you don't get from
the gym. And I still doboth, right, I probably go to

(30:55):
the gym about four to five timesa week and try to run at least
once a week, idea twice aweek. And I've been doing that for
the last four months now or thelast three months now, and it's been
going pretty well for me healthwise.I feel great, feel better about you
know, just going through the day. Yeah. Yeah, I get your
thoughts on moving the same direction.Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think

(31:21):
I'm I'm going to the gym moreoften. I was going to the gym
before I started working, but Ithink with work it kind of helps you
structure your data. Like you said, you have to get up at you
know, seven, go to work, come back, but five six and
then you know, you know youhave to sleep by a certain time.
You know, you can't like Uni, you know, like we could stay

(31:44):
up till four in the morning andnot have any consequence, right, Like
he was horrible. Like we coulddo that all week and it would be
okay, right, but you knowwe can't do that now, and we
know we have to sleep by twelve, and that gives us, you know
that with five hours to to youknow, pump some exercise in and pretty
much and and and yes, Iguess it's that structure. So I've been

(32:07):
going to the gym too. Ihaven't picked up running. I don't think
I will either. I also haterunning, sore props to you. I
don't think I can start running.I'll be honest, But I just to
go to the gym. I justsome weightlifting. But we do have two
different goals. So I'm trying togain some weight. You don't know how
to try to lose the right,so cutting, you're cutting. So for
me, I'm I'm kind of Ikind of embrace this lazy uh like no,

(32:30):
but I'm embrace sitting, you know, down for ten hours on my
on my desk because I'm gonna betrying to you know, lose and do
much cardio. So I embraced that. I come home, I go to
the gym. I don't even doany cardio in the gym, I'll be
honest. I don't jump on thetread will I might do a slow walk
for five ten minutes, but nothing, nothing too intense, but definitely does

(32:53):
help me get better sleep. I'mmore focused throughout the day. And it's
something to look forward to when Icome home, because you know, life,
it's sad, it's a little boring. You know. In Sydney,
we both moved to the Sydney there'sso many people we know out here,
and yeah, it just gives mesomething to look forward to when I come
home because I come home. Uh, you know, in Uni, we

(33:15):
lived in university building, right,so all our friends are in the building.
There's people can bump into, right, you can always be busy with
you know, like, but hereyou come home to nobody, right,
so it's like go home to thegym. So like you go home to
the gym, you come back,you sleep, and then you go back
to work. And it's just acycle. It's just It's a routine,

(33:37):
right, make it sound a littlesad, sounds depressing, but honestly I
love it. I don't think I'llgo back to UNI life. I'll be
honest. This is Union life waspretty well. It was. I remember
days at like six am, yesas I could. Yes, there was
nothing else right classes when people thatany time, I literally twenty four hours

(34:00):
a day. And because everyone elsewas on the same type of vibe as
well, Right, everyone else wassleeping at six yees because there would always
be someone who was awake. Someonewas always awake, right, it looks
like you always have company, right, true? But again city, Yeah,
let's talk about Sydney and Melbourne,because I remember we had this conversation.
The environment is very different. Youfeel right like this is. But

(34:22):
I also think it's because of themindset change that we have exactly you moved
to Sydney, right, But Ialso think the mince has changed, for
sure. But I also think Ithink Melbourne enables a lot of things that
I was. I was when wewhen I came back from the gym with

(34:43):
you that one weekend that's Saturday,right, I had to go back to
the city to get back to myhouse and it was around nine to thirty
pm. I was in the middleof the CBD and I promisely it was
quiet, right, Like I don'tthink Sydney is a it's not a it's
not it's a working city, youknow, whereas Melbourne. If I'm in

(35:04):
Melbourne Saturday night, nine thirty pm, Oh it's busy, It's very busy.
Lyney is quiet. You know,it's quiet, And that's just I
think. I think the environment isa working city. I don't think it
enables you to do certain things.So one I think is, yes,
the minds changed, like everyone hereis very focused. But two it's not
it's not accessible. I think thesethese you know going out, you know,

(35:28):
the culture of you know, youknow, going to restaurants at night.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thinkthat's more of a Melbourne thing.
I think Melbourne is a more inLiverpool city. I think this is a
working city. I agree with thatsentiment. How have you adjusted that?
And do you think do you misssome parts in Melbourne? Uh? Do
you do you prefer it here?Like it's it's it's a trade off,

(35:52):
right, like you more focused here, but do you have less of the
recreational activities, whereas in Melbourne itis it is a massive it off.
But I think I think I'm currentlyat this stage in my life happy to
be in Sydney over Melbourne, becauseif I had the exact same role in
Melvin, I think I would beless productive overall as a person, and

(36:15):
I think I would also be lesshappy because I would have more room for
distraction. Right, So if yourjob offered you to transfer to Melbourne,
I would say no, would youflee? Would it be easy? Would
it be an easy answer? Idon't think If the choice was in Melbourne
and Sydney, I would say noyoutwo Sydney. Yes, But if it

(36:37):
was a choice between Sydney and adifferent countries, then that would depend on
the country. But at that pointwe're talking on you and that's just hypothetically
yeah, because yeah, see forme, I picked Sydney. But it
wouldn't be as easy as a choiceas it's free because I think, again,

(36:58):
yeah, you do you have alot of distraction into Melbourne. I
yeah, i'd be very you know, I wouldn't be as productive, but
but it's as different because I dohave some family Melbourne. That's why it's
a little different for me. So, but at the same time, I
know I'm better off here, soI would pick Sydney too, but it

(37:22):
would be a hard it would bea hard decision. I think that's fair.
Yeah, I mean that is fair. I think I would. I
mean it would be nicer to closethe family obviously, but but to me,
Melbourne is an hour away, Like, it's not that you know,
if you do want to go back, it's not too difficult too for a
week. Yeah, I mean I'vebeen to Melbourne once since I moved to
Sydney. I think you've been toMelbourne one since moved to Sydney as well.

(37:45):
I'm going back next week for free. You there, So it's it's
not. Yes, it's a lothard. You know, like you work
here and you know, when youwant to and you feel overwhelmed and burnt
out, you're able to go backand spend time with you know, your
friends and family. So it's notthat gloomy and depressing and Sydney. But

(38:07):
I do I do. I do. I do like it here. I
do like it here. Well.One thing I don't like is where I
live. I live so away fromyou I live. I think it is
your no I mean, so yourreal term told me there was a few
units in your building and kind ofghost to me. And then I was

(38:29):
there are still units available in myso I don't know what she was telling
me as we speak. Yeah,he completely ghosted me, and I was
kind of left homeless for a littlewhile, and then I was in the
airbnb and then kind of had topick. And this is also I'm in
now. I'm about an hour awayfrom you, an hour and half the
city. Yeah, no, no, no, I'm not forty minutes from

(38:50):
the city, but an hour anda half from you. And yeah,
I mean it's it's not too badgetting to work. There's an express train,
but thirty minutes. But I meanI'm so far away from everything.
I'm so far away from just alot of things, you know. And
I mean it's good. My gymis very close to me, like the
shopping center is close. But yes, I mean ideally because we both only

(39:14):
have six month leases and they bothexpire in September. Yes, then like
a week at we did try tomove in together. That's the one thing
we did try to work out aroundlike July August, it would be good
to start looking. Look, yeah, it is tough, but we have
not gonna lie. I thought Iwas getting paid well enough, but I

(39:37):
don't have any savings. Yes,Sydney is yeah, let's talk about that.
Sydney and Melbourne, like red pricesare ridiculous here. I remember when
I first moved I I came duringthe Tailswifs concert. My airbnb price was
kind of inflated. So but thenbut then, yeah, when I moved

(39:58):
out from my airbnb and try tofind a you know, a studio or
one bedroom, I'm paying similar pricesto and you are too, to finding
a studio that's in the heart ofMelbourne CBD. Right, Yeah, it's
wild. And we don't even livein the CBD. I live in an
hour from the city, live prettyclose to I pretty much do live in

(40:21):
the city. But I got verylucky with my prices. Yeah you did.
I was trying to get the sameprice too, but again your walt
kind of just ghost with me.So yeah, pretty annoying because again,
you're very close to the city forwork, that's about twenty minutes for bus,
right, very convenient, and liveright next to mall thirty seconds away

(40:43):
from thirty seconds it's very Yeah,it's a big mall to and you live
in a university area, right,so it's kind of it's five students.
Yeah, it's it's a pretty goodarea to be around at if you really
wanted to go out. Yeah,where I live, it's predominantly older people,
and so there's like, yeah,senior senior centers across the road.

(41:06):
There's not much youth around wholid andso yeah, and I go to work
and I see, you know,adults, and as I come back and
then I see grandparents surrounded with peopleolder people, yes, and then yeah,
so I do you definitely do needto look for a too better,
a lot sooner because it does takea while to find the house, So

(41:29):
we need to be proactive and lookearlier. And one thing too for you,
well we can talk about that offthe podcast. It's just but yeah,
Sydney is. But food price arepretty similar. Food prices, I
would say a universe like Yeah,at this point, I reached the stage
where I don't look at prices offood. If I want to kind of
fixed within my macros and buy it, you should start cooking. That's when

(41:54):
I should. I think this isa conversation we have of the podcast.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I mean Sydney live compared to
but notice talk about working life.Yeah, we didn't talk about working life
in your life. It's would yousay the adjustment is is hard? How
long did you take to you thinkmaybe get into a routine where you're like,

(42:14):
okay, I got the hang ofthis now, And it took me
about a week max. Because thething is I had done internships before,
so I kind of knew what toexpect going into it. Yeah, where
there was probably a bigger shift foryou because I don't think you had been
in office. No, I haven't, you know, I would say it

(42:35):
wasn't that big of adjustment for methough, Like you know, really i'd
never be moving into the grad program. This is this program here, Sorry,
but I'm moving to the program.I wasn't really staying up late much
obviously. Office culture was something thatI had to you know, learn on
the job. Like again, Ididn't have any funal experience, but I

(43:00):
was prepped well, I think,you know, I was reading online and
I was kind of you know,taught it. Got some little training on
that's office culture. I kind ofyou know, got used to. That
was my part of my biggest adjustment. I think that, But the routine
of waking up, I think forme it is like, Yeah, I
guess the first threeks so hard becauseyou know, you don't have a house,

(43:22):
try to find the gym I wantto go to, you know,
and things. But I think onceI, you know, found a permanent
house, things kind of fell fellfell into place. Yeah, I will
say the first month of me movingto Sandey was so rough. I hated
every day a bit. Yeah,I didn't have anyone to talk to.
I didn't have a place to livein for two weeks, so I was

(43:43):
moving hotels. I had to goto a trip to Hong Kong, which
was honestly, I belief because Icould meet a lot of the other grabs.
So that was a nice little breakfrom everything. But yeah, I
mean for the first month, untilI found a place and settled in,
I was mentally just not in ado you also think do you think men,
like, how can I put thislike working? Like if you look

(44:06):
at it's for me two months ago, I was a student technically, right,
I was enrolled as a student twomonths ago. Right now I'm employed.
But I really feel like a lotof I feel like I'm a different
person almost just in the span oftwo months, and I think a lot
of my priorities kind of changed.A lot of my like, you know,

(44:27):
I know what's more important to me. Do you have the same thing?
Do you think you're a different personnow that you're working versus as a
student. Do you think there's certainthings? Yeah, do you think a
different person? I don't think thathas changed. I think my focus on
those priorities changed, right, becauseI kind of got a perspective of I'm

(44:49):
in a position where my team ispredominantly made up of people that are at
least like fifteen to two years ofexperience in the industry and more, and
I'm the only grad right, soI'm talking. I'm surrounded by people that
are really, really well versed inthe industry, and that's great for me
because they happen to all be reallynice, which is I guess it's a
struggle lust and I can answer alot of dumb questions and that will almost

(45:12):
always answer them genuinely just because they'retrying to help me out and I'm part
of their team. Yeah, Sowhat, I think my priorities didn't change,
but they became more into focus becauseI kind of understand, like in
my head where I want to befive years on the line or ten years
on the line, not just inmy career, but also in my personal

(45:34):
goals right, and personal goals includesa lot of things that includes my health.
It also includes a few of thethings that I don't think are are
worth of discussing in this podcast infuture episodes, but also in my yeah,
but also in my career, likemaybe what role I want to be
pursuing in the next two or threeyears, which region I want to be
covering in the next two or threeyears. Do I want to stick with

(45:55):
only doing equities for the next twoor three or do I want to do
something else? And a lot ofthose thoughts come to your head and they
go. But I think it's helpedme realize that what I prioritized before was
correct, Like those priorities haven't changed, it's just become more focused, as
in, Okay, I want toachieve these by this time, and if

(46:17):
I don't, it's fine because I'monly twenty one, and yeah, it'll
be okay, it'll work. Itwill always work out, Yeah, will
always work out. And then Ialso want to think, so for me
going into a grad program. Ithink I think for me, like your
expectations, right you have so forpeople that are listening, you know people

(46:37):
you know people are listening, couldbe in there, you know, last
year of UNI looking into grad programs. What would so what would what would
you tell like an incoming grad orsomeone looking for a grad program if you
could, if you could, Imean you're only six months in, but
if you could do it again,would you do it differently? Would there's

(47:01):
actually cotant because advice to what toexpect coming into grad program. I mean,
just a few weeks ago, Ihad this graduate or not a graduate
like a fine or your student fromUNI mold message me on LinkedIn. I'm
just asking for application advice, right, Yeah. And she was a you

(47:22):
know, studying finance at UNI modefrom international student, just like myself.
And she wanted to do a rolein global markets and training. Yeah,
so she messaged me on LinkedIn.And I always told myself that if I
did manage to break into the industry, which you know is it's not fun
or easy to do as a grad, I will I would always try my

(47:43):
ad bess to help out other studentstrying to do the same and so I
hoped on a call with her,and I think the answers or the discussion
we had probably applies here quite wellto the question you asked. And my
advice would be, if I'm beingvery honest, is that it's a numbers
game. It's entirely a numbers game, and you've got to apply as a

(48:06):
student. You don't have loyalties toanyone. Yeah, so you just got
to apply to as many places aspossible, right Like I can obviously say
you should applied to the bank Iwork too, or you should say you
should have plied on the firm thatyou work at. Yeah, But as
a student, you got to spreadthose applications out and you got to keep
trying and just understand that sometimes ornot even sometimes nineteen nine periods of the

(48:30):
time you get rejected. And that'sokay, that's just a part of the
times. We used to we usedto wake up to reject like multiple regress
emails, right, like, it'sit's part of the it is a part
of the process. And I mean, I think we were not too lucky
in the market timing because obviously Ihad a job from Credit Twist and then

(48:51):
that went down. Yeah, becausethe market crash. But what that happened
because of that, what happened wasa lot of these credits as bankers flooded
the market and they were hired bya lot of the other existing banks,
and that left less room for usto go in as grads because obviously we're
not as valuable as the existing youknow, traders and bankers from Credit to
Us, which was a pretty goodbank to begin with. And so yeah,

(49:15):
I mean it does make it tough. I think what you gotta realize
is you got to just keep tryinglike till the last day, doesn't matter
what. Wake up and apply.And if you do have a role,
and if you do have the gradprogram secured at you know, a bank
or a Buyson institution, I thinkif it's a grad program, you probably

(49:36):
do have some internships back in andyou would have an idea of what to
expect. Yeah, but if youdon't, I out in. My best
advice if you're going into a rolein your first internship, with your first
full time role is to just bemindful of the things you say and always
be overly formal instead of being overlyinformal. I've been just playing safe for

(50:00):
the first couple of weeks. Ithink that's always broke out well. For
me. It can seem a littleannoying in your head that you're being so
nice and formal to everyone, buttrust me that people appreciate that way more
than you being informal as a gradwho has no idea what's going on.
One hundred percent. I would sayfor me, what I've learned through talking

(50:22):
to like, you know, thecurrent grad cored at my my firm,
is that, you know, whenthey kind of tell me what they do,
sounds very interesting. I've actually hadthe chance to the culture of my
firm's really open, you know,I can. We had the CEO come
talk to us on day one,right, so like we were able,
Like I'm able to reach out toyou know, executives maybe not executive sorry,

(50:45):
like maybe I'm about to feature outto like you know, gms.
Talk to them, you know whatthey do and what I've gathered right for
for any university students listening that maynot be in the finance field that might
come from a different background or orfinance, so there's the finance background moving

(51:05):
into something else. I really whatI've learned is that I really feel like
anybody can do any like any work, I think work, anyone can get
trained, you know, anyone canlearn how to run models, anyone can
how to use Excel. Right,But I really feel like the real genesis
to genius is having passion to whatyou're doing, you know, being actually

(51:29):
curious in what you're learning and whatyou're doing. I think sets you apart
as a candidate because again, anyonecan learn how to you know, like
I said, do a financial model. Anyone can get trained, you know,
but it's really the people that arecurious and creative that kind of really
generate the best out that I feel. Right, So, anything that you're

(51:49):
doing, I think, show actualand do things that you're passionate in because
then you, yeah, you'll performbetter because you're actually interested in the work
you're doing. And you also,yeah, if you're creative, you're gonna
output you know, better solutions andinnovate because that's you know a lot of
things. These firms and banks theywant people to come in and that's why

(52:10):
grads are so valuable. Right.We come in with new ideas and we
kind of challenge the status quo.Right, we come in, and that
that's the value they see in usthey want us to come and shake things
up. Not too much, ofcourse, you don't want to step up
anyone's toast, but you want tocome in and bring in some value,
and you want to come in andbring a different perspective. So if you're
curious and you're creative, you knowthat can go a long way for you,

(52:36):
and kind of really highlight that inyour applications and again numbers game as
well of course, and apply reallyand actually it is the season for grad
programs I think right now, sothis is kind of it's kind of works
out pretty well, right yeah,I think, But this is like around
the time where grad programs close,I think, right, so if we
I think they just closed last month? Oh have they? Okay, but

(52:59):
there's something that open I think.I mean, I think there's always rolls
open throughout the year for different positions, right, So if you really like
try to find something you can youcan definitely find some domestically in Australia as
well as internationally. Yeah, forinternational listeners, yeah, because they're open.
Yeah, we have a global audience, so yeah, for this is
yeah, but it's an exciting time. Grad prokles are awesome. They you

(53:21):
know. Again, assume no noexperience, just supply apply and yeah,
reach the company you're working at tooas well. You have to know what
they do because you will get askedthat. And yeah, I think another
tip would be if you do manageto get an interview with a company.
So that's obviously assuming you know you'reapplied and you've gone through the first screening

(53:44):
process. Typically the bank or theinstitution will tell you who the interviewer will
be. Sometimes they do, sometimesthey don't. But regardless, you have
an idea. You know what thevision you apply to, you know what
region you applied to. So ifyou can try and find some juniors in
that team, so ideally only theanalysts through the graduate analysts in that team

(54:07):
and reach oother one linked they messagethem and say, hey, I have
an interview secured at your firm atthis and I would love to hop on
a quick five minute call just toyou know, get a better understanding of
what you do and learn more aboutyour role. Yes, and it might
not work because they might not reply. Don't take it personally right like the

(54:28):
person might just be busy or theymay not be using LinkedIn actively. But
if they do reply, you haven'tledge over other people that may be applying
for the same role in interviewing withthe same person. So it's about finding
any small age you can over thenext person. Because what I realized,
as you mentioned quite quite nicely,is it's not about the technical skills at

(54:51):
the very beginning as a junior,because the first the point of the grad
program is to put those technical skillsinto you. Right, they will training
why they're investing the time and themoney into you. But it's more so
about if they think you as theindividual have the willingness and ability to learn
quickly and adapt. And if youshow that you're interested in the role by

(55:13):
you know, reaching out through teammembers, it shows that you're interested.
And if you actually understand the conversationyou had with them, it shows that
you're able to learn quickly. Andthose are the skills that they kind of
look for, yeah, because they'relooking for the person really and so if
you and again like the part said, when you have reached out to someone

(55:37):
already working at that firm, youget a better insight into the company culture
too, right, and kind ofcan impress your interviewer that the person that's
interviewing you and you know, youhave some you know, inside better insight
to the other candidates that are playing. And it also shows proactiveness. It
shows that you know, you reallywant this job, you really are invested,

(56:00):
and you put time into reach outto people and they value that right
definitely. And I think the lasttip before we wrap up, yeah,
would be that just know what youapply for. Yeah, sorry about that,
but yeah, I know the rolethat you applied for. Because let's
let's use like my role as anexample. Right, if you're applying for

(56:21):
equities trade or position, you shouldknow what's happening in the equities markets the
last the week of when you're goingto that call of the day of,
for example, make sure you knowthat if you're interviewing at a publicly traded
company, know the share price ofthat company. It's pretty irrelevant, but
it just shows that you're interested inthe film. You should know any major

(56:44):
macro events that might be happening,so you know, oh my god,
I'm having to pick ups scury.But if the Federal Reserve is having is
hiking rates or is making an interestrate decision, what the market consensus is
around that a for an equities role, maybe have a stock pitch ready,
Okakay, I'm gonna let you takeover because yeah, you need some water.

(57:07):
Yeah, but I think yeah,part saying I actually know what you're
doing because they will see through you. You know they will. They will,
Yeah, they will. It alsojust it's it's a value to you
and adds. It's just it goesa long way. If you know what
you're talking about. It shows thatyou're actually again curious in the relevant field.

(57:28):
You are you know, passionate aboutthe Redman field and so and those
those are things that you know employersare looking for. So know what you're
applying for. Because I'll be honest, there's some some like again, when
you are applying a numbers game,there probably will be some draws that you
know, you don't know and youweren't maybe too familiar with. But then

(57:54):
kind of after you you know,shoot out a couple of hundred and maybe
get like you know, maybe youhear back from twenty ten, kind of
put more energy in the ones thatyou are more you know, more and
more leaning towards more because you'll geta better result, right, because you'll

(58:15):
be able to talk more naturally aboutthe the the role and it will come
out. It will come alive.People will see it will come alive.
We'll have it more. You know. Yeah, it's a great conversation with
the interviewer. But yeah, noknow what you're applying for is it's a
big one. It's really big one. Yeah, but I think part is

(58:37):
still struggling. So we'll before wewrap up, actually we want to talk
a bit about you know, thethe the the uploading structure for this podcast.
So again we're a bit busy.We're busy, you're sorry. Than
when we were you know, universitystudents, and we were we had access

(58:58):
to a recording room very you know, very easily, uh, and it
was pretty easy to record. Andso what we proposed was a Fortnite Fortnite
the upload, so you know,every two weeks and the next episode after
this this has a bit of acatch up what we do, and the
next episode will go back to youknow, our regular format where we talk

(59:22):
about maybe it might be a bitlonger because you know, we're covering two
weeks of news, right, sowe'll be covering what's what we know,
what happened the markets for the lasttwo weeks. Might have a little crypto
segment at the end and then mighthave you know, a chat as well.
You know, it's just it wouldbe a conversation, you know,
be like just like you know,old style. Right, So expect episodes

(59:44):
every two weeks, twenty third,you know, maybe longer because you know
we're doing you know, covering morecontent. But we're a satif you back,
you know, really it's uh,we missed this, especially me.
I was recording alone for quite sometime. It's nice to for you guys
to to hear you know, bothour voices again. So yeah, very

(01:00:06):
excited to be back. We willtry our best, and I don't want
to say we'll try our backs.We will. We will stick to our
bi weekly schedule and we should bepretty straightforward and slowly. If possible,
we will try and shift to avideo format. Yeah, as we move
forward, especially given the lower frequencyof Apple thing, it should be doable.

(01:00:28):
Yeah, we might be a fewmonths down the line. Once twenty
five hours away. Yeah, yes, it's be a lot of easier to
record. Yeah, we have someexciting things. I'm really hoping it can
come to life and we can showyou guys. We're very excited. So
yes, weeah, we are veryexcited. Working a lot of big things
with the podcast behind the scenes.Given our corporate motivations, we are yeah,

(01:00:55):
we are more or structured in ourapproach to go this podcast and we
look forward to sharing all the updateswith you and we'll go back to our
traditional formats the next episode. Awesome. That was a great catching up with
you part like you know, likewe do talk a lot, but it
was great catching up on the podcasttoo. I learned a little bit about

(01:01:16):
what you do more what you doand a but that was that was awesome.
That was great. Yeah. Likewise, so thanks everyone for tuning in
to the invest So is this podcastwhere we almost always help you smarter and
future about markets insights. But wehope you enjoyed this episode today and hope

(01:01:36):
we hope you tune into the nextone. Ye