Arrested Development in NSW

  New South Wales have a player and coach development problem.

Despite the Blues having far more resources available them, Queensland have been the dominant football state in the 21st century when measuring it by the ultimate test of strength; Origin.  

The way juniors and junior coaches are selected and managed creates robotic players and many limited and one-dimensional coaches.  

If it wasn’t for the Penrith development system, James Tedesco and the Trbojevic family, it’s hard to imagine where the Blues would be since the year 2001.  

Also, get a pen and paper or your phone notes ready - this episode is jam-packed with coaching content!   

Level up your coaching game with Episode 137 of the Rugby League Coach Podcast!     Hosted by Lee Addison, owner of rugbyleaguecoach.com.au and author of Rugby League Coach - new book OUT NOW!

➡️Lee has coached at NRL clubs, World Cups, Elite High Schools and so much more in a 26-year career

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-rugby-league-coach-podcast--5572032/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Hello, and welcome to the Rugby League Coach Podcast, Episode one,
one hundred and thirty seven and we're in season three
of it. My name is Leon Leona. My name definitely
isn't leoner. My name is Lee Addison. I'm very much
a male, very much a heterosexual male. I don't call
myself leoner at weekends, and I am the owner of

(01:15):
Rugby League Coach dot com dot au and author of
Rugby League Coach thirteen game Changing Conversations to transform your coaching.
And if you are one of those people who likes
to call yourself a different name at weekends and dressing
different gendered clothes or whatever you may do, you are
still very welcome on this podcast and thank you for
joining us. Not linked at all. Don't be scared to

(01:39):
make mistakes. To make mistakes is to learn. To learn
is to grow. Just laugh it off. And the key
thing is to focus on your next action. So many
of you out there dwell on things that have happened
in the past. Don't focus on your next action. Learn
from what's happened in the past. Focus on your next action,

(02:00):
and that is what matters. Even I made a mistake
at the start of this podcast calling myself a different name.
I just moved on and focused on my next action.
I even cut myself a little bit shaving before the podcast,
and I may need to dab it with a tissue
occasionally during this podcast too, but it's all about your
next action. I want to address this narrative around the

(02:26):
sport that we are not producing halfbacks in the game.
And I have said this numerous times in various formats,
and I think I will say this to my dying day.
We are not producing halfbacks because we are looking for

(02:49):
the wrong thing. We are looking for something that doesn't
exist anymore. So. In the early nineteen ninety is the
game changed from five meters or yards separation between attack
and defense or play the ball and defense, to double
that to ten meters. That is a huge shift. Imagine

(03:15):
any other sport where you doubled the length of something
that you play within. Imagine a snooker table was twice
as long. Imagine the cricket wicket was twice as long.
How that would impact bowling. Imagine a tennis court was
twice the length. How that would impact serves and returns, etc.

(03:39):
And rallied. That is the biggest change that this sport
has undergone in the last forty years and we just
brush over it as if this didn't change the game.
And there's other reasons that go into it too, So

(04:00):
for example, we have tried to overly structure our juniors
with junior coaching, particularly in places like Sydney and some
parts of England in particular, and it seems to be
creeping in parts of Queensland now. We want them to
be robotic rather than to play what they see. We
also have rules in mod football in Australia where that

(04:24):
a dummy half has to touch the ball and invariably
passes the ball on. So we produce halfs some thirteen
onwards who just habitually ask for the ball and just
pass it on and don't know why they are doing
that and what they're trying to achieve. So that's the system.

(04:46):
And then our media agenda focuses on the next Peter Sterling,
the next Alfie Langer. They're already calling Tom dead and
the next Alfi Langer, even though he's very different and
he's playing a very different game. And then of course
we've got the six again rule and why that rule
filters down into the community game I'll never know. I

(05:09):
will never ever know. That should be something kept for
the elite game. In my opinion, coaches, your most important
job is picking your team. Now you've heard the phrase
get the right people on the bus. Well, you're not
driving the bus, but if you were, you would be
the driver. You'd be in charge of that bus, and

(05:33):
you need to pick the right team. So, out of
all the coaches you do the jobs you do, coaches,
there's another mistake. I've moved on next action. All the
jobs you do, coaches, picking your team is the most
important job. How much time do you spend thinking about
that each week? Does it pick itself when you lose?

(05:59):
Do you change things automatically or do you give them
two or three games. I'm not today going to give
you any tips on how to pick your team and
what to do. I'd love you to come back with
some questions about that. Admin at Rugby League Coach dot
com dot au the email and at Rugby League Coach
on socials come back with some questions if you want
me to take a deeper dive into those things and
be specific in your questions. But the whole point of

(06:20):
this on this podcast is to tell you that picking
your team is a really important job, and it's probably
the most important job because if you get the right
team on the field in the right places, that's two
thirds of your job done. Talking of somebody who may

(06:40):
not have picked the correct team, I want to apologize
that there was no deeper analysis video on our YouTube
channel this last week of the New South Wales performance
in game three. My explanation for that is that number one,
I am busier than a one armed bricklayer. Right. Two,

(07:10):
I'm still getting traction on my game too, analysis where
a lot of it was very similar, So I've decided
just not to do it. And I'm sorry if you
were sat there waiting for one when I say I'm
still getting traction, I'm still getting some of the crazy
Facebook comments and you can tell them in a good
mood lately, I'm not responding to them and getting upset

(07:33):
by them or anything like that. We are going to
do some more deeper analysis though, and it's going to
be a grade football wherever it may be in the world,
and I'm going to give out three coaching tips a
week for free to any team out there. Okay, so

(07:57):
I've got access to some videos and I'll be picking
teams and I'll be tagging them in on socials and
giving your coach three tips to improve that team or
three tips to beat an opposition. And I'm going to

(08:18):
start at the lower end of certain comps and trying
to improve those, and then I'm going to go to
the higher end of some comps and try and find
some weaknesses that other teams can maybe exploit. I'm to
have some fun with it. So if you want me
to chase something up, please get in touch. You can
contact me admin at Rugby League Coach dot com dot
au at Rugby League Coach on socials such as Facebook

(08:41):
and Instagram, where I encourage you to message me on there.
I'm on TikTok, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on x at
RL Coach on the net. Everything else is at Rugby
League Coach, and where these videos will be in full
is on YouTube, which is the Rugby League Coach YouTube channel.
I'm looking after you coaches lately because the other thing

(09:02):
that's going to be happening and you will get the
first drop of this in a week and a half's time,
is our Coach Stories on the Rugby League Coach podcast.
I have interviewed a coach who has had more clubs
than Tiger Woods in England professionally and also has been
an England school's assistant coach and whatnot. I've interviewed them.

(09:25):
I've also interviewed an under seven's coach in North Brisbane.
I'm interviewing an A grade coach. I'm going to be
interviewing an international women's coach, an ex NRL player. I'm
going to be interviewing so many people. I also have
three old coach stories available that were only ever put
on YouTube, that are put into podcast formatt and take

(09:46):
any date references out. That is with Rowan Smith, the
current North Devil's coach, who's Brian Smith's son who was
the lead Rhinosed coach in recent years, as well his
uncle Tony Smith, who's been a very successful coach in
the UK many clubs, but also the England and Great
Britain coach. I've got an interview with him, and I

(10:08):
also have an interview with Richard Agar, the New Zealand
Warriors assistant coach and former Leeds Rhinos head coach as well.
They have got those historically and I'm going to put
them into podcast format at different times now in terms
of when Coach Stories will come out. If it's a
short interview, we'll be tagged on to the end of
each of the Rugby League Coach podcasts on a Monday.

(10:30):
If it's a longer one, it'll go into podcast format
and I am encouraging you to listen to the Coach
Stories podcast on the alternative weeks from the Ashes Rugby
League podcast. So for those who don't know, every Monday morning,
the Rugby League Coach Podcast comes out five am Sydney

(10:53):
time and Brisbane time. Later in that day, the Zero
Tackle lu to Carry podcast comes out and I'm on
there invariablue with Jamie Soward Phoenix, Trinidad is the host
and Darren Parking is a analyst. We sometimes have other
people such as Scott Pride, the editor of zero tackle

(11:15):
dot Com and also Tom from Retro Rugby League, so
various people on there. Isaac has been on there Isaac
kiss Her as well. So that's the Loose Carry podcast
from Zero Tackle that tends to come out Monday afternoon's
evenings Australia time, and then every other Wednesday is the

(11:41):
Ash's Rugby League podcast with myself and journalist John Davidson.
Of course, that features all the news about the forthcoming
ASHES series. And remember Rugby League Coach is doing a tour.
And remember I have secured a legendary Kangaro whose player
I'm going to give you another clue here now they

(12:04):
are going to be the ambassador of the tour and
travel with us. The player, so the clue so far
played on at least one of the trips Australia took,
but more than one between nineteen eighty six and nineteen
ninety four. The next clue is he was one of

(12:32):
the first names on the team sheet. I think I've
already given that clue. Yeah, another clue I'm giving now
exclusively to you the Rugby League Coach podcast listeners. He's
won premierships too, and yes plural, So we have a

(12:53):
legend coming with us. I am also going to be
interviewing another legend who's not coming on the tour, but
another legend from Kangaroo's past as well on that ASHES
podcast in the weeks to come. You may have noticed
as soon as Origin was over some of the news
came out about the ASHES series. Who will play for

(13:15):
Australia at the end. I'm going to talk about today
it looks like Kevin Walters might be the coach, so
I've got something in for the end of today's podcast
of my opinions on that. But look, every week you're
going to have at least three hours worth of podcasts
to listen to. None of these podcasts earn us money

(13:37):
necessarily a very negligible amount of advertising. It's not like
I'm Joe Rogan. So if you are prepared and happy,
and if you enjoy the free content that you get
on the podcast, social media channels and whatnot, can I
please ask you to consider buying me a beer and

(13:59):
don't or you don't have to meet me for that beer.
But I am keen to meet as many of you
as I can for a beer. I want you to
go to https forward slash forward slash cough dot double
forward slash Rugby League Coach. It's actually a website called
buy Me a Coffee. I've changed it to buy me

(14:19):
a beer and thank you to so much for people
who've bought me a beer. And I think that's perfect
for people who listen to all these podcasts don't necessarily
have the budget to go on Rugby League Coach Dot
com totau, which is my membership based website for content
or any other of the programs to do, such as

(14:40):
the coach Mentor program and whatnot. And even on the
coach Mentor program, there's so many offers right now that
you should take up. If you're interested, please get in touch.
But if you can just contribute a little bit of something,
that will be great, because I'm making a big effort
to put more and more free content out there for
people to benefit from. So if you and spare a

(15:01):
few dollars, a few pounds, whatever it is your currency,
cough dot double lea forward slash rugby league coach, or
get in touch and say Lee, how can I buy
you a beer? And I'll send you a link. Thank
you so much. Now, next week's podcast is going to
be about the state of the game. A couple of
years ago, when I had fallen out rugby league, I
decided I was going to do some farewell podcasts on

(15:24):
a few issues. Well, two years on, I want to
do a podcast that covers these issues, but it's definitely
not a farewell and I've already started to post on
socials on Instagram and Facebook. This time for your comments
on the following issues in no particular order. Female development

(15:48):
in the game. Are we looking after the girls? Should
there be more done? The international game? Are we looking
after those people? Do we need more done? The RISE
program that's Australia specific. What do you think of the
RISE program? What needs to change? What's good? Junior competitions
not being competitive until age thirteen in Australia. What do

(16:11):
you think of that? How would you like to change that?
Kids not tackling until they are eight years old or
seven later in their seventh year. What do you think
of that? Agents? What do you think of those NRL
expansion What are your views on that? Development fees for juniors,
that's transferring, appeals processes and the transfer system for juniors.

(16:35):
Wherever you live, what do you think of that? General
administration of the sport, whether it's NRL, QRL, New South
Wales Rugby League, RFL in England wherever it may be,
New Zealand Rugby League, Brisbane Rugby League's Sydney District Rugby League,
wherever it may be. What do you think of the
administration of the sport? Player development pathways? What do you

(16:57):
think of those coach education and development pathways? What do
you think of those and crowd behavior at junior games.
Please get in touch on the socials at Rugby League
Coach on Facebook and Instagram. There are posts pertaining to this.
If you comment on those, they could be included in
next week's podcast. But if you haven't seen them, or
if you can't wait, please just message me on those

(17:19):
social media channels or email me admin at Rugby League
Coach dot com dot au. And some other issues where
I would like you to think about the future of
the game, coach, education and pathways. Any of these issues
can focus on what you have going on in your area,

(17:43):
or the bigger professional game or the worldwide game, whatever
you want them to focus on. State of the Game
podcast and that will be released on Monday, the twenty
eighth of July. I got an email or a message
from somebody from the Beer Wi Bulldogs now Berwire Bulldogs
and the Sunshine. Coach is a club that I did
some work app not so long ago, so very fond

(18:04):
of the place, and I did a post earlier in
the week encouraging people out there to reach out if
they're doing it tough in any way, shape or form.
I'm genuinely concerned about the things have read and the
things have heard about people committing suicide because of cost
of living, pressures, perceived relationship issues, whatever it may be.

(18:29):
So I did a post midweek last week just saying
you must know that you can reach out. You know
I talked to you, So why don't you talk to me? Okay,
just reach out? Please admin at Rugby League Coach dot
com to tear you at Rugby League Coach because on socials,
because once you press that exit button, guys, you can't
take that one back. And it just seems that too

(18:53):
many people think that's their only option and it isn't
just pick up the phone. And if you don't pick
up the phone to me, pick it up to somebody
else that you trust, because that can be the difference.
I got a message from the Beerwar Bulldogs and I
will keep the person's name out of this, but he
said the post about reaching out really got me. In

(19:16):
the past two weeks at the club, we've had our
president in a coma and one of our coach's wives
killed tragically in an accident in Bali. The ripple effect
through the club at the moment is absolutely massive. Trying
to deal with some of the parents and kids who
have just heard the news about the coach's wife and

(19:37):
their teammates' mum has been really hard. I just wanted
to say it's nice to know that there are people
out there in the footed world that are there to
listen to people if they need it. That look. My
message to beiwar is I'm so sorry. It's so so
sorry to the people and the families involved. I am
so so sorry. But this is where rugby comes into

(20:00):
its own. This is where clubs come into their own.
I would encourage everybody in the Berwild Bulldogs who has
been affected by this to seek all the help that
they can do. Not be scared to speak out, do
not be worried to speak out. But also doesn't this
put into perspective any of the petty issues that come

(20:23):
up in clubland at times. And I'm not talking about
Berwi Bulldub talking about any club. Look, just look after
yourselves and look after each other and remember to reach
out if you need some help. I also do an
article on zero tackle dot com and last week on
Friday I did one about the new South Wales Development System,

(20:48):
so stay tuned for that. The end of this podcast,
I'm going to go through that in detail. What should
we talk about now? Okay, this week, five years ago,
for the first time in my life, I heard the

(21:09):
name of a legendary coach. Now bear in mind, I'm
somebody that if there's anything on rugby league coaching, I'm
all over it, okay, And I have been for a
quarter of a century, right, And I'd never heard of
this guy until five years ago. And I am from

(21:29):
the same country as him, Roy Francis. And you know,
like we always think that Jack Gibson was the original
super coach. He thought of things that nobody else thought
of and led the way with so many things. It

(21:50):
turns out Roy Francis could have been the head of him.
I've always been proud of my own studies and I
was a bit upset with my self. I didn't know
about this, But to be fair, I think because he
was a black guy, some of his history has been
swept under the carpet because it was in the fifties

(22:11):
and onwards as well, when we weren't quite as evolved.
I think when it came when it came to dealing
with people from different backgrounds, Francis was coach of Top
Sides in both England and Australia between nineteen fifty five
and nineteen seventy seven, So that's twenty two years that
he coached and it seems to have been scrubbed from

(22:33):
the history books. Many who have done research on him,
and those who asked the right questions have found that
he was considered twenty years ahead of his time. He
introduced things like film of matches to give players a
game review, brought in Jim training, and many of the

(22:53):
players and other coaches in the sport thought he was
off his head. He was a disciplinarian, also a great
man manager, famous for embracing families of players and giving
them transport to games, and he was thought to be
one of the first to do those kind of things.
So this is a guy that coached in the what

(23:15):
is now the NRL in Australia as well as England. Apparently,
when he wanted his team to spread the ball, he
sat down in the dugouts with a towel spread across
his knees with his legs slightly apart, and then when
he wanted them to play tight, he would close his legs.

(23:36):
How could, against all odds he got his teams to
numerous finals and took Hole FC to the championship in
fifty six and fifty eight. How John cart Right, the
current coach, would love to have such success. And on
John cart Right, he's a very good coach and he's
been very unlucky with his career. He doesn't seem to

(23:57):
have the same good luck charms of some others. Let's
say that. Back to Francis and then went to Leeds
and won the Challenge Cup in the Yorkshire Cup and
then came over to North Sydney Bears and took them
from the bottom of the ladder to some mid table
stability in no time at all. I bet Mal would
love to take the Bears to some mid table stability,

(24:20):
mid ladder stability when the Perth Bears joined the camp
in a couple of years. Francis returned back to England
and won a premiership with Leeds in nineteen seventy five.
He died age seventeen, nineteen eighty nine, a coaching career
spanning two decades in the top two competitions with trophies

(24:42):
and final appearances.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
Glow.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
What a record, What a man and what a coach.
I think the equivalent you know let's forget background and
skin color for a moment. The equivalent would be somebody
like I was going to say Sean Wayne or Brien,
but I think their massive success only came up one
club really, so who else has been successful at two

(25:05):
clubs in England? Maybe Tony Smith and then coming over
to Australia and doing well within an RL side. That
would be the equivalent, I think, forgive me if I've
got that wrong. Maybe maybe Paulman, Brian McDermott. Maybe Newcastle

(25:28):
Knights are likely to get rid of Adam O'Brien at
some point, aren't they. And then Blake Green has been
touted as the next coach, and this is despite him
being the attack coach at the club and they having
the worst attack in the whole competition statistically and even

(25:49):
if you look at it. So of course, the narrative
starts from the various camps. Adam O'Brien says he's the
attack coach. I'm just I just oversee it. Blake Green's
camp says things like and Blake Green's camp apparently is

(26:11):
led by an agent who I will not repeat his
name on here, only because I don't want to add
to the narrative. The agent has been great to me
and I've got a good relationship with him, but he's
absolutely pillared in the media, and I wonder if that's
because some of that is because of his background too,
But his agent is the leader of that narrative, issume

(26:34):
or the leader of the camp sorry, And they're obviously
trying to say, well, they're just doing what Adam O'Brien
asked him to do. So that made me think about
what I do. And I'm a big fan of instead
of attack and defense coaches with my assistants, I want
a left side on the right side, or a left,
a middle and a right side, because, unlike the NFL,

(26:58):
attack and defense in Beliger intertwined, one impacts on the other.
If you're attacking and all of a sudden you lose
the ball, as a team, you have to change. You
have to transition into a defensive pattern, and the attacking
person that you're often next to in attack is also

(27:19):
next to you in defense or may need to take
a slightly different position. And if there's no coordination between
those transitional elements, then I don't understand. I don't understand
what teams are trying to achieve with an attack and
defense coach. So I'm a big believer in left, middle
and right or left and right with assistance rather than

(27:43):
attack coach and defense coach, because they're not mutually exclusive
of each other. The best way of defending is to
hold the ball in the first place. So that's an
interesting side note. Told you had a lot to get
through today. Last week we talked about analyzing opponents little bit,
what about analyzing ourselves? So when I have video review

(28:05):
available of my team, I tend to do a really
detailed video edit, and I have a series of categories
that I break the game into, and some of them
include exit sets, good ball sets, or what you might
know in the media as red zone sets, carries, and
meters gained, and they're broken into several subcategories. And I'll

(28:27):
tell you those subcategories. They would be go forward passes
completed to get to that carry. So if it's a
plus one, so I pass from dumby half to a
first receiver he gives it to someone, then that would
be categorized differently. Also, average meters gained in exit and

(28:54):
how many completed sets in good ball in the red
zone area, etc. So there are some of the subcategories
team defense, So how does the tab look in general?
Collision and rout control broken into several subcategories. So the
big ones for me are contact line. So the contact
line is the point the attack makes the defense. I
hope we've got your pen and paper with you. Again,

(29:17):
when the attacker meekes a defender, the collision, if you like,
that is the contact line. Okay, So I write down
or not. I tag whether we've won that contact line
or lost that contact line. If it's neutral, I classic
as a win, and then whether we won the rouck,

(29:40):
because even if you win the contact line, you might
not win the ruck. You might just get off them
and lose the ruck. Now, the other thing that I
forgot to mention was I'm big on shoulder contact in defense.
So I go number one, did they tackle with the
shoulder top of the shoulder? Number two, did they win
the contact line? Number three did they control the rug?

(30:02):
So there's three points to that defensive ruck, back to attack,
and then we've obviously got the completion rate, and then
back to defense. We've got the penalty count. And on
the back of that, I might look at field position gifts.
So if your team, for example, only ever concedes a
try when they give a penalty to the opposition or

(30:22):
drop ball somewhere on the field that isn't an advantage
to you. Then if you can in your team, in
your coaching eradicate errors and giving away penalties, you're going
to go a big way forward as a team, and

(30:43):
you are very likely to win more games than you loose.
And if you can get your defense so good that
you only can see points when you can see penalties
or when you give away too much possession in the
wrong places, then you can completely turn your games around
by focusing on reversing those things. And that's why analyzing

(31:05):
is so important. Editing gives me a picture of the game,
and those statistics often give me an even better picture
when I work out what I've seen and what the
statistics tell me, and then when it comes to presenting
it to the players. I mean, I might spend ten
hours analyzing a game, I'll spend twenty hours, might spend two,

(31:25):
But the narrative I give to the players is the
important thing. Might give them five or ten minutes worth
of footage. In other words, what do I want them
to know? So even though I might do days worth
of study. There's only certain things I need them to
know and there's certain things I want them to focus on.

(31:45):
I can do this service for you with your teams.
Many people have reached out lately for their teams to
be analyzed or their sons or daughters to be analyzed,
So please just reach out admin at Rugby League Coach
dot com dot au at Rugby League Coach on socials.
And then when it comes to that narrative, I will

(32:06):
decide what clips I want to show the team collectively
and then also any that I might want to show
a player individually. And over the years, I've developed a
detailed set of key performance indicators that when my teams
reach them always result in victory, and if we miss some,

(32:28):
it sometimes means defeat. So that's the detail that I
would say a significant level that you probably need to
get into if you're serious about your coaching. If you're

(32:49):
just coaching in Sorry I shouldn't have said the word just,
but if you're coaching the community game, some of your
players won't be able to take that much information, so
you need to be really careful about overloading them. But
I will say this, if you are a coach, and
you've got game tapes. Depending on what else is going
on in your life, you will need caffeine because there'll

(33:09):
be some long analyzing and editing ours. If your team
is shipping points, I suggest you repair it by starting
with the following steps. One can ay all your players
actually tackle, or b you have some weak defenders. So

(33:31):
quite often we select teams based on attack and we
forget that they can't defend. There's a lot of NRO
players like that, very talented and RO players, two very
good attacking and RO players, but they can't defend. But

(33:52):
I guess in many cases the attack outweighs of defense. Two.
If the answer was so, if all your players in
your team can actually tackle, then your defensive system is
at fault. So if you're happy all your players can
tackle but you're leaking points, it's your system that's a problem.

(34:15):
If the answer to question number one was B you
have some weak defenders, you need to come up with
a system that either disguises some of their weaknesses or
drop them from the team and find somebody else. And
that's a big conunder him for so many coaches at

(34:35):
all sorts of levels. I always say earlier in the season.
You should put a defensive side out there in the
middle of the year when you're clicking into a bit
of gear, of a gear back yourself to score some points,

(34:58):
put better attackers on and then maybe towards the finals
and in the finals you need to tighten the screws
on the defense. Canber Raiders are a classic example of
that in the NRL. They they seem to have twenty
minutes in each game where they let the opponents back in,
but they score more points than them a lot. But

(35:18):
Ricky will have to tighten the nuts and bolts up
in defense if they're going to win the title. So
they're going to win the minor premiership I think in
the NRL, but they're going to have to tighten the
nuts and bolts in defense. And more often than not,
anybody that needs to fix the defense has to go
through these steps. Number one, get your spacings right. If

(35:43):
you stand wider in defense, if your players are standing wider,
they're more allowless to go through you unless you've got
a perfect up and in system. And if I'm talking
gobbledegoops here up and in what does that mean? Get
in touch? But if they're going through you either have

(36:04):
some weak defenders or your spacings are poor. Number two,
have a look at individual tackle techniques. So some people
can tackle, but their tackle can result in quick play
the balls that can result in tries being scored. So,
for example, Brad Schneider in the NRL is being targeted

(36:26):
a lot the Penrith reserve half and against Paramatta a
week or so ago, they attacked him with a quick
play the ball. Sorry, they attacked him with the carry
that led to a really quick play the ball because
Schneider got knocked backwards and they scored on the next play.
So Brad Schneider made a tackle, but his tackle wasn't effective.

(36:50):
It wasn't an effective tackle. Thirdly, you need to look
at rot control techniques and you've got to make them
as consistent as possible. Many teams I have seen and
work with coaches the inconsistency of their root control techniques
is the key thing. So they might kill a roock
for two tackles within a set, but what about the

(37:11):
other four and then what about the other sets. This
isn't a sometimes thing we've got to do. We've got
to do it all the time if we want to
be successful, and if you haven't ticked those boxes, then
you stand at risk of getting rolled over in rucks.
And then when that happens, your defense panics, and then

(37:32):
well you can guess the rest. You can control a
game with your defense. And again, the more you listen
to me, the more you see my analysis on YouTube
and whatnot, you'll learn how I think teams can attack

(37:52):
with their defense and control a game with their defense.
I'm having a swigging me water. Still no water sponsor.
I was discussing this with Ben at one of the
clubs I was at this week. Ben's a former president
of Pine Rivers in Brisbane and I was doing some
work there and he was talking about the water sponsor,

(38:14):
and I said, what I'm going to do. I'm going
to start drinking beer or eating pies on this podcast,
saying how shit they are, and getting other people to
send me beer and sponsor the podcast. So probably the
best way. I don't think water. I don't think there's
a massive demand for water. Water is water, isn't it? Really?

(38:36):
On the State of the Game podcast discussion earlier, I
mentioned agents as a possible topic, and in Danny Widler's
column today, as I record which is someday the twentieth
of July. For the Monday, the twenty first of July
release of this podcast, Danny Widler detailed a snap quiz

(38:59):
that Andre had for the agents that were trying to
interview Klee and Pongo when he was younger. So I'm
going to read this out as it appeared in Danny
Widler's column, and then I'm going to tell you that
this is over the top, but there are some good
questions in there too. The questions were as follows. How

(39:23):
many was the first? There was sixteen? Oh, sorry, seventeen
at eighteen just from the dad eighteen questions right. Number one,
Klen holds a national title and has made two national
teams in the past three years. What sport and teams?
And what year did he make these? Well, I didn't
know it was a general knowledge quiz. Number two, how

(39:46):
long has Calen's been playing rugby league? Again, if that
information isn't readily available in the news, how isn't it
a perspective agent meant to know? This? Be fair to them.
Not all of them are animals who need to be
whipped into shape or tested. Number three, what's Klen's nickname? Well,
I don't think the agent went to school with him

(40:07):
or grew up new Number four What what foot does
Kaln favor to kick with in football? Well, I will
guess an agent should possibly know that. Yeah, but an
agent as well. Their skill is negotiating in contracts and
market value analysis and things not necessarily football, so be

(40:29):
careful if you're dealing with agents. Number five Five attributes
that you see in Kalen as an athlete? Six, five
attributes you see in Kalen as a person. Seven? What
league club is Kalen currently playing for? Well, right now
it's Newcastle Knights, but when this was being circulated or

(40:53):
delivered there will be some junior clubs somewhere wunting. Eight
What NRO club does Kaleen have an agreement with? I'd
expect an agent and all that. I'd expect agents and
all the last question two nine what school is Caitlen
currently attending? And where did he attend before that? But

(41:14):
then there's some ridiculous ones too. Number ten What is
Caitlyn's brother's name? What is Caitlyn's birthdate? Where was Caylen born?
State in town? These are like general knowledge questions. Kaitlyn
pongker quiz Thirteen what is Caylen's favored stepping for? Fourteen?
Having met Calen, what do you think his priority is
at the moment as a fifteen year old? Fifteen? Knowing

(41:37):
you have observed Kaln in a rugby league environment, what
are your thoughts of Calen playing rugby union because of
his schooling commitments? Sixteen? Are you an accredited manager? Answer
should be yes for an then our own manager. Seventeen
How can you guide Calen sourcing an apprenticeship or university
after Calen finish his school, especially if Calen is taken
on by a club after school eg through to end

(41:59):
of Holgan club. I think that's a great question from Andre.
I think there's some good questions in it, don't get
me wrong, but some of them are just a bit
designed to catch out agents, I think. And then last
question was list in a ladder form the best club
first and so on, which you think provides the best
opportunities for a young footballer moving forward. Unbelievable And then

(42:22):
apparently Klen chimes in with his own questions one what
position do you see me playing in the future? Two?
How long have you been managing? For? Three? Where are
you based? Four? Did you play football? If so, who,
for how long? What position? Five? How did you get
into management? Six? What sports do you manage? Seven? Why
do you manage? A? Two? Are some of the players

(42:43):
you manage? And in what sports? Nine? When have you
first noticed me? Where? Ten? Why do you want me?
I actually think Klen's questions were brilliant. They're fair too,
and then it's over to mum a dean apparently Number
one what do you see in my son? Fair question? Two?
What is your philosophy on being the player agent? Great question? Three?
What is your philosophy of a player under your management?

(43:06):
Great question? Four? How will you help my son with
rugby league? Great question? Five? What is your role as
a manager? If you're an agent? Would you want to
Bloody Cale and Bonger? Some of those oold great questions?
And I think that was useful for those because I

(43:27):
sometimes get questions about how you should deal with agents,
and I think at least they were doing their due diligence.
I've done a couple of coach meetings and work with
coaches three four times this week, atch loads this week
catch away more than three, So some questions that have

(43:49):
popped up Coaching unders and overs was a question, and
somebody argued that it is hard to do that with juniors,
and I responded with, just give them fifty percent less
things to think about. Get them to run unders lines,
get them to go straight or run unders lines. And
I talked about how that manipulates a defense, how that
ties a defense up or puts a defender on the

(44:12):
inside shoulder, two, how it can put a defender off balance.
Three an over's line really should only be run in
a very simple game plan by nine a seven or
a six who was trying to bring an attacker underneath
a fellow attacker underneath them, like as a drop off,
or to drag defenders across, or somebody fast who wants

(44:35):
to beat someone. So I think just teach unders. Sorry.
Another question was relating to confidence in defense, and I
talked about getting a player in the team that struggles
to tackle to stand one meter away from somebody who's
bigger than them and get their technique right, and do
it walking pace, and then increase it to full speed.

(45:00):
Thing because under a monitored environment, obviously, because the attacker
won't be able to generate that much momentum from one
meter and then you gradually go to two meters and
then three meters and this might take weeks. That's how
you help players with confidence in defense. You help them
by getting their technique right. And the other counterintuitive thing

(45:21):
is players tend to buckle and brace for impact by
going a little bit slower sometimes if they're scared of
going into a collision. You actually have to do the
exact opposite. If you want to succeed, you need to
go in with everything that you've got. Another question related

(45:46):
to the importance of the ways to correct, So coaching
for me is correction. And one of the tactics I use,
and I'll briefly go through this right now, is if,
for example, tackle technique, Okay, so I like to tackle

(46:10):
shoulder contact, top of the shoulder, an S shaped body,
so bent legs, et cetera, feet close, and studs in
the ground. So I will literally give feedback with a group.
I will fix their shoulders going in the right place first,
so I'll attack that first. Then I will add when
I'm happy with that they're putting their shoulders in, I'll

(46:30):
then concentrate on the feet so I've gone to the
other end of the body. And then I'll fix the
body after so the correction has gone one at a
time rather than giving them all the points at the
same time. And I find good teachers can organize that
feedback and organize the correction. Poor teachers just throw loads

(46:51):
of information and the participant is like, what the hell
did that person just say? Okay? But coaching is correction.
Another thing that came up was into using interchanges.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
And.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
It's such a fine balance in that. So I know
coaches that son as a player makes an error, they
want to take them off and they need to change them.
I know coaches that will take a player off even
though they're going great. I know coaches that feel that
they need to give everybody a game, etc. Get in

(47:29):
touch and ask me about your team. What you think
you should do admin at Rugby League coach dot com,
but tay you or socials at Rugby League Coach with
a message. Look, put it this way as a prop.
If you're going really well and you're running over people
and you're smashing people in defense, even if your time
should be up in an eighty minute game, if you've

(47:50):
done twenty minutes and the coach is thinking, well, I
need to put another prop on. The worst thing you
can do is take that prop off while he's still
going well, leave him on until such a point where
he or she looks a little bit tired, and then
get them off quickly and change them. That's the kind
of thing we'll talk about with interchanges. Okay. I did

(48:13):
say to you earlier that I wrote an article on
zero tackle dot com. Please go and have a look,
and it was titled Arrested Development, and it's about the
fact that Queensland have been the dominant football state in
this century because origin obviously is the ultimate test of that,
isn't it so? Or Queensland and New South Wales are

(48:37):
the first team, the A grade of the whole state.
So every resource that goes into rugby league in Queensland
and New South Wales, and I'll use England as an
example here too, because they're trying to beat Australia in
the ashes, every resource in Queensland goes towards the Queensland
state side, every resource in New South Wales goes towards

(48:58):
the New South Wales side. Every resource in England should
go to the England side, and they're the therefore the
test of that. The measure is how they do. Since
two thousand and one, Queensland have won sixteen series in
New South Wales eight, so that's twice as many wins.

(49:18):
In the year two thousand, you may remember New South
Wales whitewashed Queensland that year and it was the year
that Brian Fletcher did the hand grenade celebration. In the
years prior to that, things were so tight between the states,
and they'd been a drawn series the year before in

(49:39):
nineteen ninety nine, so this was a real battle, and
then all of a sudden New South Wales looked like
it wouldn't lose for a long time. Things were tight
for three years after two thousand and one. There was
a second drawer in two thousand and two, and it
would be fair back then to ask where the next
Queensland wind was coming from, as the Blues won in three,

(50:01):
oh four and five and oh five is famous obviously
for the Joey John's performances in Game two and three,
so we were all talking about a new New South
Wales dynasty then. In that two thousand and five series, though,
Cameron Smith joined a team that already had Jonathan Thurston

(50:26):
Billy Slater on a wing rather than full back. And
that game was played on the sixth of julyne oh
five and the series score between New South Wales and
Queensland since that day is fifteen to Queensland New South
Wales five, so we are absolutely in the Queensland era.

(50:51):
In the twenty years since then, I hinted at this
earlier about the halfback scident, the New South Wales had
been in the constant search for the next Peter sterle In,
the next Joey, the next Mortimer, etc. Nathan Cleary, not
a bad footballer at all, good footballer, Premiership winner, gets
hammered when he's in a New South Wales journey at Jersey.

(51:13):
How much of this is because of the pressure that
we put on him. I include myself as well. I
have been hammering his performances lately. Don't forget the media
is very Sydney centric, so all the TV stations, the
newspapers and the radio stations down there on a constant
mission to find this new king of New South Wales

(51:37):
rugby league. Let me list some of the halves that
have played in that twenty years. Brett Finch, Craig Gower,
Jared Mull and Bretlamall with Peter Wallace, Mitchell Pierce, Trent Robinson,
Adam Reynolds. They even wanted Luke Brooks once they were
The media were trying to get Luke Brooks to be

(51:57):
the next King of News Wales. I worked in Sydney
for six years before I moved to Queensland to coach,
and when it comes to youth development, how juniors were

(52:18):
developed and are developed, I have had a ringside seat
and also taken part. I've been coaching those juniors. Sydney
very political, dogg eat dog every area I worked at. Oh,
that kid gets picked because of him, his daddy is

(52:38):
blah blah blah, all that kind of thing. So nepotism
favoritism rather than merrit. And this was a shock to
me because I came from David Waits and Chris Chapman's
national camp and regional camp system under Sport England where
you had to justify absolutely everything. Every selection had to

(52:59):
be on merrit. And again in Manly and in Penrith,
where I worked and had different parts of Sydney, same
accusations regard to coaching positions for the adults. In Penrith
it was twice as bad. It was even worse. I
remember selection meetings there for juniors and there was no evidence.

(53:21):
It was just yeah he's a good lad, Yeah he's good,
get him in. And the politics and favoritism in those
areas was shocking. And I've heard so much about those
in between Manly and Penrith two in Sydney, and I
experienced them in the school game too. The school game

(53:42):
is a very powerful circuit and it's very hard for
non teachers to coach in that system. So you have
your coaches in the junior rep system and ROL clubs,
and you have teachers who just stay in the teacher's system.
One of my older systems, Josh Bretherton, has just stayed
in the teaching system basically, never really been into clubland

(54:05):
that much at all, and he's spent time coaching. He's
been coaching for about twenty years and he was five
years my assistant, then he became the head coach and
now he's gone Queensland fifteen the Queensland eighteen school boys.
So he just stayed in the Queensland system schools and

(54:25):
there's no non teachers in those jobs. So the non
teachers tend to go for the junior rep jobs and
the junior development squads Sydney clubs and the Harold Matthews
and SG ball competitions in Sydney have played at big grounds,
you know. I've coached a lot at Brookie and Balmaine

(54:46):
and so many other places, you know, Penrith Stadium, so
many And with all this competition for coaching jobs down
there in Sydney, there's something of a dog eat dog
attitude and people slag each other off and try and
make up stories about each other and this, that and
the other. And even though the coaches have a clear divide,

(55:09):
you know, the teachers and the non teachers, the players
have to play in both. So some of them are
serving two or three masters, depending on if they play school,
club and Rep. And don't get me wrong, the powers
in that being in New South Wales have made every
attempt to minimize the impact on the kids. But the
problem is that some of these organizations are so powerful

(55:31):
they still run their own race and go against that sometimes.
And obviously the pressures on each so if you're a
junior rep coach at an NRL club, you have to
get some results or else you get sacks. Teachings a
little bit different, a bit more supportive I think, but

(55:54):
don't get me wrong. This some pressure if you don't win.
I took over a coach at Saint Gregory's who you know,
the jungle drums were beating about him that he didn't
know enough about rugby league. So there's pressure there too.
And when there's pressure on coaches, guess what. They squeeze
as much as they can out of their players to
get the results that will save them. That means coaches

(56:24):
tend to coach more with short term goals in mind. Okay,
so they don't look at long term development of players.
The amount of times I've seen junior rep systems where
the new coaching staff had no clue about what the
players had done the year before because the coach and
the staff had been sacked and there was no records left.
So can you imagine just from the athletic development of

(56:45):
a player the problems that can cause. And this collision
of philosophies has been a constant problem for people in
New South Wales, and of course when Queensland went eighth
straight in origin, that made him have a razor like

(57:09):
focus on fixing that. Despite having so many more playing
resources and actual resources available to them. There was a
thought that they were churning out too many robotic players,
and I think they still are, and there's a reduced
amount of instinctive skill because there's a playing journey full

(57:30):
of coaches that are career coaches that have short term focus.
Yet coming up to Queensland, I saw something different. When
you remember Jonathan Thurston play, he looked like a player
who gave the impression he was still just playing park football.
He wasn't too structured in so many ways. He probably

(57:50):
was structured, but not overly structured. Cooper Kronk was a
manufactured half, but it's easier to manufacture her half if
they've not got too much structure that's been coached into
them and made a habit previously, so he wasn't hamstrung
by too many previous bad habits. Up here in Queensland,

(58:16):
the junior Rep team teams exist. They basically came in
roughly the same time as I arrived the Cyril Connell
and Malmoninger competitions. But they still train less than what
used to happen in Sydney ten years ago. And there
is better communication between club and school and there's better collaboration.

(58:42):
It's not perfect by any stretch, or it's better. And
also I don't think the coaches are quite as dog
eat Dog. In fact, nowhere near as Dog eat Dog.
I think Queenslands are too laid back. Of course they're ambitious,
but it's just less dog eat Dog. The Langa Trophy,

(59:03):
which starts again this week in Southeast Queensland, is the
toughest under eighteens comp I have ever seen. I coached
in games in that competition that had ten an Ro
players come out of them, five Origin players just one game.
You know, that's the standard of it, and then occasionally sorry.

(59:28):
So so Southeast Queensland Langa Trophy is your Key Brewers,
your Palm Beaches, your Marsdens. And then I brought through
Mabel Park and Ipswich State High they were my programs.
And then you get the likes of Kerwin from up
north who sometimes beat everybody down South too. And to
give it another measure, Queensland schools have just won the

(59:52):
eighteens title as well the Australian title, so you could
probably argue it looks like Queensland are going to are
going to produce this schoolboy champion again based on that
because they've brought. They've produced most of the schoolboy champions

(01:00:12):
in the last ten years or longer schoolboy national title
champions eyes. So back to New South Wales. Imagine the
Treboyevic family didn't have two talented kids called Jake and Tom.
Imagine James Dedesco hadn't moved from the Tigers to the

(01:00:33):
Roosters because at the Tigers he was doing okay. At
the Roosters his career went to the next level. And
imagine Gus never went to the Penrith Panthers and putting
the development plans there. Now another thing about Queensland development
system and about their recording origin. People forget this. After

(01:00:56):
their eight straight series wins, Queensland won three of the
next four, so they actually won eleven of twelve eleven
one since two thousand and six. That's probably what should
be celebrated, celebrated just as much as the eighth straight.

(01:01:17):
Then gradually New South Wales started introducing the Penrith development
players and the Treboiviches and James Dedesco. Now, let me
give you a statistic on that that provides something like
where's the number forty three percent of the players that

(01:01:41):
were selected to the Travoivic Brothers, James Adesco and Penrith.
Development products account for forty three percent of the state
selections since twenty twenty one thirty four percent since twenty eighteen,
so one in three players or nearly half the players. Unbelievable,
isn't it. Where would New South Wales be without those?

(01:02:06):
And it's not just in terms of players that New
South Wales have a development problem. Where were all the
coaching options when they got Laurie Daily back for a
second time, and then before that they had a proper
coach called Michael Maguire who was actually a coach and
they won the series. Before that they had another celebrity coach.

(01:02:29):
To be fair to Brad Filer, though he did do
some apprenticeship in the New South Wales system with eighteens etc.
Sixteens and eighteens, But again, how was he developed is
a question I'd like to ask, And it's not many games,
is it. And then of course they have the rules
that you can't have a club coach in charge of

(01:02:51):
New South Wales. Yet Queensland didn't care about that when
they put Wayne Bennett in twenty twenty and won that series.
So the reality is now that there is once again
the best state for rugby league in Australia and in
this century they've dominated overall. It's twenty seven series to

(01:03:13):
fifteen since Origin was started. And for things to change,
something has to change and it shouldn't be happening because
of everything that New South Wales have got available to them.
They need to change everything about the system there and
put in a long term plan if it's not there.
I've not got time to talk about some of the
other things that I wanted to talk about, so I

(01:03:35):
will put them into another podcast in the coming weeks.
I love your work. Coaches, take care, Please get in
touch admin at Rugby League Coach dot com, betau or
at Rugby League Coach and Social or that can help
you in any way.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
All the best at PAS pass to tap peful not

(01:04:11):
prefer a perferences confect for persons and suspect