April 9, 2025 • 25 mins
In this heartfelt episode, hosts Lisa and Gretchen unpack the importance of building community after surviving suicide loss or attempt. They share their personal stories and how finding — and creating — safe spaces for connection helped save their lives and transform their grief into healing.
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📝 Episode Summary
In a profoundly raw and moving conversation, Lisa and Gretchen dive into the stigma of suicide and the life-changing strength of finding — or building — community. They discuss their healing journeys, from the silence and shame of mental health struggles to the breakthroughs that come with vulnerability and shared space. Whether it's a support group, a therapy session, or a circle of close friends, this episode reminds us that we don’t have to walk through the most challenging moments alone.
💡 Lessons Learned
- Community is a lifeline: Having a group — even a small one — makes navigating grief and mental health more bearable.
- Vulnerability is powerful: Telling your story can unlock someone else’s pain and start their healing.
- There’s no “right” way to engage: Whether you speak up or listen, being part of a community matters.
- Help is always within reach: Therapy, crisis lines, and online support can meet you where you are — even from home.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[MUSIC]
(00:05):
The Survivors is brought to you by our friends at CalMori.
This podcast mentions suicide, mental illness,
grief and loss, and maybe triggering for some listeners.
So please take care of your well-being by
pausing or skipping any sections that feel uncomfortable to you.
And if you or someone you know is struggling,
please call 988 for supporting.
[MUSIC]
(00:25):
So this whole idea of creating a community,
like you and I are most excited about that part of what we get to do.
I mean, there's the part of getting on the podcast every week
and talking about everything that we need to talk about.
But then there's this other part that just comes naturally.
It's a byproduct of all this conversation.
And that's the community part.
(00:46):
And that's the part I am so excited about.
You and I both know the importance of having a community.
And I don't feel like there is necessarily a big survivor community.
What do you agree with that?
>> Yeah, 100% because so many people are still fearful of the stigma around suicide.
(01:07):
You know, nobody wants to talk about it.
It's always been that very hush, hush topic.
And that's why we're here because we do need to bring it out to the open.
And we need to reduce the stigma.
And we need to help change the world because nobody really knows
what's going on in somebody's head.
Nobody.
And being an attempt survivor, I for sure can say,
(01:28):
I didn't know what was going on.
But if I'd had a community or a resource,
I think things would have been a lot easier.
And I probably could have opened up a lot sooner.
>> Yeah. I mean, in your case, you had panic attacks.
You had stuff happening in your head and in your heart
that you just couldn't identify.
You didn't know.
You couldn't put words to it, right?
(01:48):
Is that pretty accurate?
>> Yeah. >> 100%.
I couldn't find my voice for right footing
because I didn't understand what was going on.
And that must have been terrifying for you.
I couldn't tell anybody because I didn't know what was going on.
And at the time I was 59 and a half, but my entire life,
I'd been told we don't talk about mental health.
And at that time, I didn't even know that's what it was.
(02:09):
I knew I was done.
I was done.
I couldn't take on one more thing or one more problem
because I wasn't dealing with my own stuff.
>> Yeah. And it's so much easier to deal with our own stuff
when we're not alone dealing with it.
When you've got someone, whether it's, you know,
a community comes in so many different forms.
When we think community, we think, or at least I think,
(02:31):
like big, global, massive community of people,
it doesn't necessarily have to be that.
Community can be a small group,
can be a virtual group, can be some kind of support group,
meeting group.
It can be just a community of your therapists or counselors
or family and friends.
It takes on so many different forms,
(02:53):
but once you have that outlet,
and you can take those thought loops
that are kind of replaying over and over in your own head
and you let them out, what that does,
the way that connects you to the world around you,
to the issues you're dealing with,
to the other people who are experiencing the same things,
that's the change agent.
(03:14):
That's the secret sauce, I think.
>> I think that community is so vital,
especially nowadays, we're also scattered.
And I think that my community is like my Friday night click,
that I have with my wife and our friend.
And to me, that's community.
Reaching out to my Instagram community,
reaching out to my LinkedIn community.
(03:36):
Every time I talk about my story,
I gain one new friend or I gain one new ally.
And having that makes it so much easier to talk about life stuff,
because therapists are great,
but if you also have one good close friend
that you can hear your shit out on,
sometimes that really helps because they know you,
(03:58):
the nice thing about a therapist is they're a third party,
and you don't get that angst from,
sometimes where you get from family and friends.
>> Yeah, well, they're unbiased.
They're so unbiased.
>> Right.
>> And non-judgmental, and they're holding space
for us in a different way,
completely different way than I think the people
who know us best will hold space,
(04:19):
because the people who know us best
are also the ones who we're gonna interject.
They're the ones who are gonna have opinions
or have perspectives, which in some ways is really good,
but in some ways maybe isn't so good
because you need that unbiased opinion.
And think of how beneficial it's been just in my own life.
Ever since I started opening up,
(04:39):
it's been 11 years now since I learned the truth
about my father's suicide.
And for anyone who's just tuning in,
G and I shared our stories in episodes two and three.
If you don't know our stories,
G is an attempt survivor,
and I'm a three time survivor of suicide loss.
I didn't know my dad died by suicide for 35 years.
And I didn't start sharing that truth right away.
(05:01):
It took years for me to even get to the point
where I told my kids or I told my extended family.
And it was a game changer for me
when I ultimately made that decision
to start sharing the truth.
And then it was like the whole world opened up.
And all of a sudden you hear,
"I had experience with that,
or I lost someone to suicide."
I mean, my story is a little bit unique
(05:21):
because of the secretive part of it,
but all of a sudden people come out of the woodwork
and they want to connect with you and they want to bond with you.
And all of a sudden you're learning
what other people are saying and doing
and where other people are seeking out support.
And for me, I don't know, that was like the button.
Once I flipped that switch,
(05:42):
everything started to change for me.
And I think the load that I was carrying in my own head
just somehow got a little bit lighter.
- That's really where community comes in
because it's a group of like individuals
that are going through the same thing.
And maybe they have different tips, different tricks
to help deal with that.
(06:03):
Really, I just gonna call it what it is
that's sitting our head, right?
- Yeah. - Yeah.
- Because sometimes our spouses
are significant others don't quite understand
what you're going through
because they haven't been there themselves.
But growing a community around people
that are either suicide attempt survivors
or suicide loss survivors, that's huge.
(06:27):
Because we share a common bond.
Like we got to the lowest part of our life.
And thankfully for me, I made the call to 988.
It's like I say over in a row,
it was like a row of hopes and things were gonna get better.
- Yeah.
But my hope is that by forming a community
of both suicide attempt survivors
(06:47):
and suicide loss survivors that we can help change
the world's view on this,
that we can feel more comfortable talking
about the word suicide, that we're okay.
It's life should happens.
- Yeah, even that kind of shit.
And this is some of the worst kind that there is,
which is why, like all the more reason
(07:09):
to seek out and find any, in some cases,
in our case, build community to be able to support it
because the issue that we talk about,
that you and I talk so much about,
this kind of loss is so, so unique.
And this is not an any way to minimize any kind of loss
that anyone has ever experienced in any other way,
losing someone to an illness or an accident
(07:31):
or however you've lost a person,
suicide is just a different animal.
And more people who can bond around that and relate to it,
and share opinions about it and lived experiences,
that's how you pick away at that stigma.
That's how you drill down into that center part
(07:52):
and you release that, the tabooness of it.
That's how you create an environment
where people can come in and share whatever perspective
they have on it and they can do it openly
and they can do it freely
and they can know that it's a safe environment.
And that's where my healing really started.
You know, healing is such a continuous journey,
(08:13):
doesn't end, just like grief doesn't end,
but once I connected with people around this,
it changed something in me, it changed something for me.
There's such power in that.
It's like you just wanna kind of grab everybody
and shake them and say, just share, just show up.
- Yeah, because every time we share our journey,
we unlock somebody else's prison.
(08:34):
- Yeah, right.
- And for me, like the very next day
after all the shit went down, I shared on social media.
I'm a true extrovert, so nobody knew,
absolutely nobody knew how depressed I was.
And he was during those first few days afterwards
that I really found my community.
Number one, as soon as I shared,
(08:55):
I had about 200 people reach out and thank me
because now they feel so terrified
and alone in their own journey.
But these were the people that stood me up
when I couldn't stand myself up.
And it still happens.
In November, when things got bad again,
at least this time I didn't keep it all locked up.
People knew where I stood.
And once again, my community surrounded me.
(09:17):
They uplifted me.
They kept me going.
And I think that's what we need to do for others out there
is let's help stand people up
because sometimes your feet just can't hold you up.
And that's where community comes in.
- Yeah, it's powerful.
It's a powerful image.
I mean, look, the bottom line of all of it
(09:38):
is that we're not supposed to do all of this alone.
And I don't just mean grieving alone.
I mean, life alone.
We're not here alone by design.
We're supposed to support each other.
Which should be a we not mean mentality,
especially where things like
grief and loss are concerned.
And in the case of suicide,
we need all the help we can get in this community
(09:58):
because it is so unbelievably isolating.
There are what, 83 million people a year
who are in this community that we're talking about.
We just need to collect them all.
We just need to reach them all to unify them all
so that people can support one another
(10:19):
because when we're left locked in our own heads,
if someone doesn't know what we're dealing with,
they can't help us.
How are they gonna help if they can't
know what the problem is and know what you're struggling with?
So the more often that we, you and I can get out here
and have these conversations,
the more people who can listen,
the more people who share shows like ours, episodes like this
(10:41):
and connect with other people,
that's how we affect change.
This is grassroots stuff.
This is what you and I are doing.
It's just grassroots change.
And that's how it happens.
It starts as a slow burn and then all of a sudden,
one becomes two, becomes five, becomes 50,
becomes a thousand, and then all of a sudden,
people start engaging differently around it.
People aren't so afraid anymore.
(11:02):
People can say the word freely.
Love the fact that we can come on here
and you and I can just say suicide,
like it's any other word.
Like we know it's not, but we need to somehow change
the meaning of the word in normal conversation.
- Take a step to your mental well-being with CalMari.
Trust it online therapy platform
(11:22):
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- And for me, community,
there's the ones that can cause out on our shit too.
- True.
- And there's so many times, like I'll just keep
something bottled up and you get with your community,
(11:46):
you get with your friends and they will call you out on it.
If they're a good friend, they're gonna call you out on your shit.
And that's basically what we're trying to do.
It's not call people out on their shit,
but get you to open up, get you to talk freely about this
because it's not a bad word.
There's a lot of bad connotations around it.
But the more we talk about it,
(12:06):
the more community we form.
- Right.
- Right, especially in this day and age,
there's just so many external factors going on right now.
And letting people know that they're not alone.
You're never alone in this world.
There are crisis lines, a caller, a text away.
And there's therapy out there.
There's groups, there's podcasts.
(12:26):
Anything to get out of your head.
For me sometimes, well, not sometimes.
Starting soon, I'm gonna be going back to the gym.
And I'm going to the gym in the winter because it's just hard.
But I go to the gym to just get my brain to stop.
Find something to get your brain to stop,
whether it's coloring or taking a walk in nature
(12:47):
or calling up a friend and going to have coffee.
Anything to get out of your head also helps.
Like if you can find a good walking community,
now that it's starting to warm up,
that's something I want to do more of is get out and walk around.
Talk to people, talk to your spouse, talk to your friends,
talk to your colleagues.
- Let them know what's going on.
And then slowly but surely you build a community around you.
(13:12):
And it's all for talking about a common thing.
- Yeah, and you know what, too?
Sometimes we need something really specific.
Obviously in the case of what we're talking about,
we need a specific kind of group
where people have specific kind of experience.
Sometimes it's as simple as start your own group.
- If you can't find a group, create a group.
(13:32):
I think that we over complicate the process
of getting people together.
We're lucky and we live in a world where three clicks
or however many clicks and you can start a Facebook group.
Or in most towns there's a community center
and they're dying for people to start groups
and create programs.
So there are so, so many different avenues
(13:54):
to create the support that you need.
And like you said, even if you do nothing more than engage
with any kind of group, it's a support for your mental health.
Even if you're not looking at the moment
for a group to talk about suicide with or grief with.
Maybe you just need to do what you're saying.
Go to the gym, just find an outlet.
(14:15):
Community comes in like we said, so many different forms.
Maybe what you need is just something
to get you out of your own head.
Maybe it's not a group even to address what you're dealing with.
Maybe it's just another kind of group
to get you to move your body or it's an art class or it's a yoga class.
So there are so many different ways
to experience community.
(14:35):
And community is important because now that you have
like like-minded individuals or just a group of people,
now you're not by yourself.
It's when we're by ourselves that a lot
of those intrusive horrible thoughts come back into our head.
Being out amongst other people makes that stop
for just a little bit.
(14:56):
It may not go away forever,
but it goes away for just a little bit
so that helps me reach out.
At the time when everything was going down,
I think I was too far along by the time
Christmas Day roll around that I didn't understand
that I needed community.
And it's a time I couldn't find a good podcast to listen to.
(15:16):
And I would go to Google and there'd be eight million resources.
Maybe two of them were helpful.
But who wants to go through all that?
Just to err what's going on in my head.
Thankfully for me in November of 2022,
I'd seen a commercial for 988.
And that is what had been stuck in my head.
(15:37):
Thankfully I used the number I'm here today because of it.
Yeah.
Really thankful for that.
The other thing about being a part of a group
or in an environment where you can just really
talk freely about your stuff, like whatever your stuff is,
is you know, you kind of walk in the door
knowing whether it's a virtual group or in person.
Like when you walk into that community, you're safe.
(15:58):
Because it's terrifying.
It's terrifying to say the things that are on your mind
just because it's scary stuff to admit in a lot of cases.
Being vulnerable is really, really hard.
Admitting you're afraid of something is really, really hard.
Being consumed by the emotional parts of what you deal with,
like being overwhelmed in public is hard for people.
(16:19):
But I'll tell you, so I have a unique experience
as a facilitator for a suicide support group.
It's through some errands.
It's here in Boston.
It's called Safe Place.
And it meets the first and the third Wednesday of every month
in the evening at 6.30, it's virtual.
And it's a survivor's of suicide loss grief group.
(16:39):
Anyone can come.
It's free.
And I'm a facilitator.
And so I get to moderate and watch these groups.
And it's been such an interesting experience.
Watching how people-- and I've been doing this for over
a year now.
So I've gotten to know the people who
tend to frequent this group.
And I watch people when they first
become a part of this group.
(17:00):
And most often, people are kind of in the shadows.
They're just listening.
They're observing.
They're engaging, maybe a little bit here and there.
And it's wild to me to see the people who come in
and they're the quiet ones in the beginning and there.
Just like fearful of engaging, I get it.
It's nerve-wracking.
And then all of a sudden, they'll
be like some kind of a breakthrough.
Something clicks for them.
(17:21):
Maybe it's something someone else said,
or it's a comfort level.
And then all of a sudden, this person who
has been in the background the entire time
is-- I wouldn't say leading conversation
because it's not really like that.
It's more of just a general round robin kind of conversation.
But they're out there.
And in some cases, people are crying and sharing.
And it can be emotional at times.
(17:44):
But at the end, those are always the people
before they hop off the group.
They're like, that felt amazing to be able to share,
that felt amazing to be in a room with people who
understand what I'm going through.
That's the point.
It's so simple when you really whittle it all away.
It's just about being with people who get it.
That's why you and I clicked so fast and so hard
(18:04):
because we both understood what each other had been through.
We're fortunate that we have each other.
But I think about people out there that are by themselves.
How many of you go out to a gym?
Or my community there.
How many of you go to a local coffee shop?
Or my community there?
Just start talking to people.
(18:24):
I know it's hard.
Believe me, I didn't say anything for three and a half months
until that fateful day.
And then ever since then, apparently I can't stop talking.
But that's not such a bad thing, either.
It's not.
It's a good thing.
But find your community and know that you're not alone.
There's so many research sources out there.
(18:44):
There are people that are willing to help.
There are people willing to listen.
And life throws us so many horrible curveballs.
Sometimes we just don't know when to duck and weave.
But find your people.
And it does make things better.
It makes them at least tolerable.
And tolerable is much better than the alternative.
(19:08):
Now you're right.
Because when you're in a group of like-minded people
who are dealing with what you're dealing with,
you have permission to be exactly how you are.
You come as you are to these groups.
And in most cases, for instance, suicide survivor groups,
people are at different points on that continuum.
Someone may have experienced loss very recently.
(19:30):
Someone may be a month or a year or several years ahead
or decades ahead, wherever you're at.
Like, it doesn't matter if you're, look, I'm
God, 46 years out from losing my father, which is just
such an insane thought to me that it's been that long.
But there are days when it feels like it was this morning.
And that's the crazy thing about grief.
(19:51):
Just because I'm that far removed from when it happened
doesn't mean that I can't relate with someone who's in it
right now, who's going through it right now.
And that's the beauty of community.
Because you automatically get that permission
to show up exactly as you are because people remember.
People know wherever they are on that grief journey.
(20:11):
They remember being where you were.
And they're there to support that.
And even if you're a somebody who's not a group person,
you don't feel like you could benefit.
Don't immediately write it off.
Sometimes the best things in the world for us
are the things that are just on the other side
of our comfort zone.
The things that we just can't visualize ourselves doing.
(20:34):
But then we go ahead and we do them.
And we're like, that thing was amazing.
I can't believe it took me that long to do the thing.
But groups are like that.
You start off and just observe.
That's the beauty of it.
You can make it whatever you want.
There's no expectation.
It's kind of like the expectation about the 988 lifeline.
People think you can only call that lifeline if you're suicidal,
(20:54):
if you're in the middle of an attempt.
So false, so wrong.
Let's clear that up right now.
It's for anybody who's experiencing
any kind of mental health crisis.
And if it's a crisis in your mind, it's a crisis.
Call the line.
Same thing with a group like that.
It's for anybody.
Doesn't matter where you're at.
(21:16):
You don't have to speak.
You don't have to share.
It's entirely up to you.
So I think if more people really understood that,
maybe there wouldn't be so much of a fear factor associated
with doing the thing, going and trying it.
And for the people out there, that are reckless, right?
That are afraid to go outside of your house.
(21:37):
In this day and age, there's tools that you can actually
join community via a Zoom meeting or via a Teams meeting
or get out onto Discord or go join a group on Substack.
There's so many different avenues out there for community.
So even if you don't want to leave the comfort of your house,
there are places you can go to listen and learn or read and learn
(22:01):
or even talk and learn or just sit behind
and absorb what's going on around you so you're not alone.
But being in that type of community,
well, it's a life saber and a game changer.
Yeah, it is.
That's why I'm going back to how this episode started with me
just being so overjoyed that the byproduct of this podcast
(22:25):
is that we are building a community of people
who have this shared experience.
And look, if there are 93 million people out there
in the world today who have been touched in some way by suicide,
maybe you haven't lost your person directly,
but maybe you know someone who has ended their life.
That means there are 93 million different stories out there,
different experiences out there and people
(22:47):
at different points along the way.
And that's a lot to share.
That's a lot to get from the people around you.
And if you have a conversation whether you're an active participant
in a group or whether you're just like you said,
just kind of like hanging back and you're just observing
and taking it all in, just still gaining something from that.
Don't ever think that just because you don't go to a group
(23:09):
and actively participate, that you're not gaining something from it
because there's always something to take away.
Whether you just hear someone's story
and you find that connection point and you're like,
"Oh, that just made me feel less alone."
Okay, let's say that was it.
That sometimes is enough.
Or let's say you learned about an online resource.
So you learned about a group or you learned about a strategy
(23:32):
that someone else used that worked, that you didn't try
or think about before.
Then there's your takeaway.
There's what makes it worth it.
So there's so many different ways to show up
and there's so many different ways to be part of it
and you get to make those decisions.
And what's really cool about our podcast
is that we are trying to form that community.
(23:52):
Eventually we will have either a sub-stack group
or something like that so that we can talk openly
and form that community.
We're fortunate enough that we get to talk about this
and I'm not afraid to talk about suicide.
What I want to do is remove that stigma
around the word suicide.
It's really important.
For me, like I said, thankfully I'm alive.
(24:14):
I get to talk about this, but we want to give people
that hope that they'll be okay the next second,
next minute, next hour, next day.
There are people out there that will have your back.
Yeah, well, we've got your back.
So we've got your back.
So thanks all for listening and watch out for us for next week.
Thanks for joining us on the survivors.
(24:35):
Remember, no matter how tough things feel, you are in up
and the world needs you just the way you are.
You're not alone in this journey.
There's a community here and every step forward counts.
We're so grateful you took the time to listen
and we hope they'll take one day at a time.
Just know there's always more light ahead.
Thanks for being here friends.
Just remember, help is out there in so many different places.
(24:58):
So if you or someone you know is struggling,
please call 988 and a trained crisis counselor like me
will be there to help.
You can also find an inclusive and comprehensive directory
of mental health resources, tools and content
at thehelphub.co.
Just remember that help is always just a call
or a click away.
We'll catch you next week.
In the meantime, keep surviving.
(25:19):
[Music]
[MUSIC]
(00:05):
The Survivors is brought to you by our friends at CalMori.
This podcast mentions suicide, mental illness,
grief and loss, and maybe triggering for some listeners.
So please take care of your well-being by
pausing or skipping any sections that feel uncomfortable to you.
And if you or someone you know is struggling,
please call 988 for supporting.
[MUSIC]
(00:25):
So this whole idea of creating a community,
like you and I are most excited about that part of what we get to do.
I mean, there's the part of getting on the podcast every week
and talking about everything that we need to talk about.
But then there's this other part that just comes naturally.
It's a byproduct of all this conversation.
And that's the community part.
(00:46):
And that's the part I am so excited about.
You and I both know the importance of having a community.
And I don't feel like there is necessarily a big survivor community.
What do you agree with that?
>> Yeah, 100% because so many people are still fearful of the stigma around suicide.
(01:07):
You know, nobody wants to talk about it.
It's always been that very hush, hush topic.
And that's why we're here because we do need to bring it out to the open.
And we need to reduce the stigma.
And we need to help change the world because nobody really knows
what's going on in somebody's head.
Nobody.
And being an attempt survivor, I for sure can say,
(01:28):
I didn't know what was going on.
But if I'd had a community or a resource,
I think things would have been a lot easier.
And I probably could have opened up a lot sooner.
>> Yeah. I mean, in your case, you had panic attacks.
You had stuff happening in your head and in your heart
that you just couldn't identify.
You didn't know.
You couldn't put words to it, right?
(01:48):
Is that pretty accurate?
>> Yeah. >> 100%.
I couldn't find my voice for right footing
because I didn't understand what was going on.
And that must have been terrifying for you.
I couldn't tell anybody because I didn't know what was going on.
And at the time I was 59 and a half, but my entire life,
I'd been told we don't talk about mental health.
And at that time, I didn't even know that's what it was.
(02:09):
I knew I was done.
I was done.
I couldn't take on one more thing or one more problem
because I wasn't dealing with my own stuff.
>> Yeah. And it's so much easier to deal with our own stuff
when we're not alone dealing with it.
When you've got someone, whether it's, you know,
a community comes in so many different forms.
When we think community, we think, or at least I think,
(02:31):
like big, global, massive community of people,
it doesn't necessarily have to be that.
Community can be a small group,
can be a virtual group, can be some kind of support group,
meeting group.
It can be just a community of your therapists or counselors
or family and friends.
It takes on so many different forms,
(02:53):
but once you have that outlet,
and you can take those thought loops
that are kind of replaying over and over in your own head
and you let them out, what that does,
the way that connects you to the world around you,
to the issues you're dealing with,
to the other people who are experiencing the same things,
that's the change agent.
(03:14):
That's the secret sauce, I think.
>> I think that community is so vital,
especially nowadays, we're also scattered.
And I think that my community is like my Friday night click,
that I have with my wife and our friend.
And to me, that's community.
Reaching out to my Instagram community,
reaching out to my LinkedIn community.
(03:36):
Every time I talk about my story,
I gain one new friend or I gain one new ally.
And having that makes it so much easier to talk about life stuff,
because therapists are great,
but if you also have one good close friend
that you can hear your shit out on,
sometimes that really helps because they know you,
(03:58):
the nice thing about a therapist is they're a third party,
and you don't get that angst from,
sometimes where you get from family and friends.
>> Yeah, well, they're unbiased.
They're so unbiased.
>> Right.
>> And non-judgmental, and they're holding space
for us in a different way,
completely different way than I think the people
who know us best will hold space,
(04:19):
because the people who know us best
are also the ones who we're gonna interject.
They're the ones who are gonna have opinions
or have perspectives, which in some ways is really good,
but in some ways maybe isn't so good
because you need that unbiased opinion.
And think of how beneficial it's been just in my own life.
Ever since I started opening up,
(04:39):
it's been 11 years now since I learned the truth
about my father's suicide.
And for anyone who's just tuning in,
G and I shared our stories in episodes two and three.
If you don't know our stories,
G is an attempt survivor,
and I'm a three time survivor of suicide loss.
I didn't know my dad died by suicide for 35 years.
And I didn't start sharing that truth right away.
(05:01):
It took years for me to even get to the point
where I told my kids or I told my extended family.
And it was a game changer for me
when I ultimately made that decision
to start sharing the truth.
And then it was like the whole world opened up.
And all of a sudden you hear,
"I had experience with that,
or I lost someone to suicide."
I mean, my story is a little bit unique
(05:21):
because of the secretive part of it,
but all of a sudden people come out of the woodwork
and they want to connect with you and they want to bond with you.
And all of a sudden you're learning
what other people are saying and doing
and where other people are seeking out support.
And for me, I don't know, that was like the button.
Once I flipped that switch,
(05:42):
everything started to change for me.
And I think the load that I was carrying in my own head
just somehow got a little bit lighter.
- That's really where community comes in
because it's a group of like individuals
that are going through the same thing.
And maybe they have different tips, different tricks
to help deal with that.
(06:03):
Really, I just gonna call it what it is
that's sitting our head, right?
- Yeah. - Yeah.
- Because sometimes our spouses
are significant others don't quite understand
what you're going through
because they haven't been there themselves.
But growing a community around people
that are either suicide attempt survivors
or suicide loss survivors, that's huge.
(06:27):
Because we share a common bond.
Like we got to the lowest part of our life.
And thankfully for me, I made the call to 988.
It's like I say over in a row,
it was like a row of hopes and things were gonna get better.
- Yeah.
But my hope is that by forming a community
of both suicide attempt survivors
(06:47):
and suicide loss survivors that we can help change
the world's view on this,
that we can feel more comfortable talking
about the word suicide, that we're okay.
It's life should happens.
- Yeah, even that kind of shit.
And this is some of the worst kind that there is,
which is why, like all the more reason
(07:09):
to seek out and find any, in some cases,
in our case, build community to be able to support it
because the issue that we talk about,
that you and I talk so much about,
this kind of loss is so, so unique.
And this is not an any way to minimize any kind of loss
that anyone has ever experienced in any other way,
losing someone to an illness or an accident
(07:31):
or however you've lost a person,
suicide is just a different animal.
And more people who can bond around that and relate to it,
and share opinions about it and lived experiences,
that's how you pick away at that stigma.
That's how you drill down into that center part
(07:52):
and you release that, the tabooness of it.
That's how you create an environment
where people can come in and share whatever perspective
they have on it and they can do it openly
and they can do it freely
and they can know that it's a safe environment.
And that's where my healing really started.
You know, healing is such a continuous journey,
(08:13):
doesn't end, just like grief doesn't end,
but once I connected with people around this,
it changed something in me, it changed something for me.
There's such power in that.
It's like you just wanna kind of grab everybody
and shake them and say, just share, just show up.
- Yeah, because every time we share our journey,
we unlock somebody else's prison.
(08:34):
- Yeah, right.
- And for me, like the very next day
after all the shit went down, I shared on social media.
I'm a true extrovert, so nobody knew,
absolutely nobody knew how depressed I was.
And he was during those first few days afterwards
that I really found my community.
Number one, as soon as I shared,
(08:55):
I had about 200 people reach out and thank me
because now they feel so terrified
and alone in their own journey.
But these were the people that stood me up
when I couldn't stand myself up.
And it still happens.
In November, when things got bad again,
at least this time I didn't keep it all locked up.
People knew where I stood.
And once again, my community surrounded me.
(09:17):
They uplifted me.
They kept me going.
And I think that's what we need to do for others out there
is let's help stand people up
because sometimes your feet just can't hold you up.
And that's where community comes in.
- Yeah, it's powerful.
It's a powerful image.
I mean, look, the bottom line of all of it
(09:38):
is that we're not supposed to do all of this alone.
And I don't just mean grieving alone.
I mean, life alone.
We're not here alone by design.
We're supposed to support each other.
Which should be a we not mean mentality,
especially where things like
grief and loss are concerned.
And in the case of suicide,
we need all the help we can get in this community
(09:58):
because it is so unbelievably isolating.
There are what, 83 million people a year
who are in this community that we're talking about.
We just need to collect them all.
We just need to reach them all to unify them all
so that people can support one another
(10:19):
because when we're left locked in our own heads,
if someone doesn't know what we're dealing with,
they can't help us.
How are they gonna help if they can't
know what the problem is and know what you're struggling with?
So the more often that we, you and I can get out here
and have these conversations,
the more people who can listen,
the more people who share shows like ours, episodes like this
(10:41):
and connect with other people,
that's how we affect change.
This is grassroots stuff.
This is what you and I are doing.
It's just grassroots change.
And that's how it happens.
It starts as a slow burn and then all of a sudden,
one becomes two, becomes five, becomes 50,
becomes a thousand, and then all of a sudden,
people start engaging differently around it.
People aren't so afraid anymore.
(11:02):
People can say the word freely.
Love the fact that we can come on here
and you and I can just say suicide,
like it's any other word.
Like we know it's not, but we need to somehow change
the meaning of the word in normal conversation.
- Take a step to your mental well-being with CalMari.
Trust it online therapy platform
(11:22):
that supports you through life's challenges,
connect with licensed therapists
and reap the benefits of traditional therapy
enhanced with digital tools whenever you need it.
Visit CalMari.com to get started.
- And for me, community,
there's the ones that can cause out on our shit too.
- True.
- And there's so many times, like I'll just keep
something bottled up and you get with your community,
(11:46):
you get with your friends and they will call you out on it.
If they're a good friend, they're gonna call you out on your shit.
And that's basically what we're trying to do.
It's not call people out on their shit,
but get you to open up, get you to talk freely about this
because it's not a bad word.
There's a lot of bad connotations around it.
But the more we talk about it,
(12:06):
the more community we form.
- Right.
- Right, especially in this day and age,
there's just so many external factors going on right now.
And letting people know that they're not alone.
You're never alone in this world.
There are crisis lines, a caller, a text away.
And there's therapy out there.
There's groups, there's podcasts.
(12:26):
Anything to get out of your head.
For me sometimes, well, not sometimes.
Starting soon, I'm gonna be going back to the gym.
And I'm going to the gym in the winter because it's just hard.
But I go to the gym to just get my brain to stop.
Find something to get your brain to stop,
whether it's coloring or taking a walk in nature
(12:47):
or calling up a friend and going to have coffee.
Anything to get out of your head also helps.
Like if you can find a good walking community,
now that it's starting to warm up,
that's something I want to do more of is get out and walk around.
Talk to people, talk to your spouse, talk to your friends,
talk to your colleagues.
- Let them know what's going on.
And then slowly but surely you build a community around you.
(13:12):
And it's all for talking about a common thing.
- Yeah, and you know what, too?
Sometimes we need something really specific.
Obviously in the case of what we're talking about,
we need a specific kind of group
where people have specific kind of experience.
Sometimes it's as simple as start your own group.
- If you can't find a group, create a group.
(13:32):
I think that we over complicate the process
of getting people together.
We're lucky and we live in a world where three clicks
or however many clicks and you can start a Facebook group.
Or in most towns there's a community center
and they're dying for people to start groups
and create programs.
So there are so, so many different avenues
(13:54):
to create the support that you need.
And like you said, even if you do nothing more than engage
with any kind of group, it's a support for your mental health.
Even if you're not looking at the moment
for a group to talk about suicide with or grief with.
Maybe you just need to do what you're saying.
Go to the gym, just find an outlet.
(14:15):
Community comes in like we said, so many different forms.
Maybe what you need is just something
to get you out of your own head.
Maybe it's not a group even to address what you're dealing with.
Maybe it's just another kind of group
to get you to move your body or it's an art class or it's a yoga class.
So there are so many different ways
to experience community.
(14:35):
And community is important because now that you have
like like-minded individuals or just a group of people,
now you're not by yourself.
It's when we're by ourselves that a lot
of those intrusive horrible thoughts come back into our head.
Being out amongst other people makes that stop
for just a little bit.
(14:56):
It may not go away forever,
but it goes away for just a little bit
so that helps me reach out.
At the time when everything was going down,
I think I was too far along by the time
Christmas Day roll around that I didn't understand
that I needed community.
And it's a time I couldn't find a good podcast to listen to.
(15:16):
And I would go to Google and there'd be eight million resources.
Maybe two of them were helpful.
But who wants to go through all that?
Just to err what's going on in my head.
Thankfully for me in November of 2022,
I'd seen a commercial for 988.
And that is what had been stuck in my head.
(15:37):
Thankfully I used the number I'm here today because of it.
Yeah.
Really thankful for that.
The other thing about being a part of a group
or in an environment where you can just really
talk freely about your stuff, like whatever your stuff is,
is you know, you kind of walk in the door
knowing whether it's a virtual group or in person.
Like when you walk into that community, you're safe.
(15:58):
Because it's terrifying.
It's terrifying to say the things that are on your mind
just because it's scary stuff to admit in a lot of cases.
Being vulnerable is really, really hard.
Admitting you're afraid of something is really, really hard.
Being consumed by the emotional parts of what you deal with,
like being overwhelmed in public is hard for people.
(16:19):
But I'll tell you, so I have a unique experience
as a facilitator for a suicide support group.
It's through some errands.
It's here in Boston.
It's called Safe Place.
And it meets the first and the third Wednesday of every month
in the evening at 6.30, it's virtual.
And it's a survivor's of suicide loss grief group.
(16:39):
Anyone can come.
It's free.
And I'm a facilitator.
And so I get to moderate and watch these groups.
And it's been such an interesting experience.
Watching how people-- and I've been doing this for over
a year now.
So I've gotten to know the people who
tend to frequent this group.
And I watch people when they first
become a part of this group.
(17:00):
And most often, people are kind of in the shadows.
They're just listening.
They're observing.
They're engaging, maybe a little bit here and there.
And it's wild to me to see the people who come in
and they're the quiet ones in the beginning and there.
Just like fearful of engaging, I get it.
It's nerve-wracking.
And then all of a sudden, they'll
be like some kind of a breakthrough.
Something clicks for them.
(17:21):
Maybe it's something someone else said,
or it's a comfort level.
And then all of a sudden, this person who
has been in the background the entire time
is-- I wouldn't say leading conversation
because it's not really like that.
It's more of just a general round robin kind of conversation.
But they're out there.
And in some cases, people are crying and sharing.
And it can be emotional at times.
(17:44):
But at the end, those are always the people
before they hop off the group.
They're like, that felt amazing to be able to share,
that felt amazing to be in a room with people who
understand what I'm going through.
That's the point.
It's so simple when you really whittle it all away.
It's just about being with people who get it.
That's why you and I clicked so fast and so hard
(18:04):
because we both understood what each other had been through.
We're fortunate that we have each other.
But I think about people out there that are by themselves.
How many of you go out to a gym?
Or my community there.
How many of you go to a local coffee shop?
Or my community there?
Just start talking to people.
(18:24):
I know it's hard.
Believe me, I didn't say anything for three and a half months
until that fateful day.
And then ever since then, apparently I can't stop talking.
But that's not such a bad thing, either.
It's not.
It's a good thing.
But find your community and know that you're not alone.
There's so many research sources out there.
(18:44):
There are people that are willing to help.
There are people willing to listen.
And life throws us so many horrible curveballs.
Sometimes we just don't know when to duck and weave.
But find your people.
And it does make things better.
It makes them at least tolerable.
And tolerable is much better than the alternative.
(19:08):
Now you're right.
Because when you're in a group of like-minded people
who are dealing with what you're dealing with,
you have permission to be exactly how you are.
You come as you are to these groups.
And in most cases, for instance, suicide survivor groups,
people are at different points on that continuum.
Someone may have experienced loss very recently.
(19:30):
Someone may be a month or a year or several years ahead
or decades ahead, wherever you're at.
Like, it doesn't matter if you're, look, I'm
God, 46 years out from losing my father, which is just
such an insane thought to me that it's been that long.
But there are days when it feels like it was this morning.
And that's the crazy thing about grief.
(19:51):
Just because I'm that far removed from when it happened
doesn't mean that I can't relate with someone who's in it
right now, who's going through it right now.
And that's the beauty of community.
Because you automatically get that permission
to show up exactly as you are because people remember.
People know wherever they are on that grief journey.
(20:11):
They remember being where you were.
And they're there to support that.
And even if you're a somebody who's not a group person,
you don't feel like you could benefit.
Don't immediately write it off.
Sometimes the best things in the world for us
are the things that are just on the other side
of our comfort zone.
The things that we just can't visualize ourselves doing.
(20:34):
But then we go ahead and we do them.
And we're like, that thing was amazing.
I can't believe it took me that long to do the thing.
But groups are like that.
You start off and just observe.
That's the beauty of it.
You can make it whatever you want.
There's no expectation.
It's kind of like the expectation about the 988 lifeline.
People think you can only call that lifeline if you're suicidal,
(20:54):
if you're in the middle of an attempt.
So false, so wrong.
Let's clear that up right now.
It's for anybody who's experiencing
any kind of mental health crisis.
And if it's a crisis in your mind, it's a crisis.
Call the line.
Same thing with a group like that.
It's for anybody.
Doesn't matter where you're at.
(21:16):
You don't have to speak.
You don't have to share.
It's entirely up to you.
So I think if more people really understood that,
maybe there wouldn't be so much of a fear factor associated
with doing the thing, going and trying it.
And for the people out there, that are reckless, right?
That are afraid to go outside of your house.
(21:37):
In this day and age, there's tools that you can actually
join community via a Zoom meeting or via a Teams meeting
or get out onto Discord or go join a group on Substack.
There's so many different avenues out there for community.
So even if you don't want to leave the comfort of your house,
there are places you can go to listen and learn or read and learn
(22:01):
or even talk and learn or just sit behind
and absorb what's going on around you so you're not alone.
But being in that type of community,
well, it's a life saber and a game changer.
Yeah, it is.
That's why I'm going back to how this episode started with me
just being so overjoyed that the byproduct of this podcast
(22:25):
is that we are building a community of people
who have this shared experience.
And look, if there are 93 million people out there
in the world today who have been touched in some way by suicide,
maybe you haven't lost your person directly,
but maybe you know someone who has ended their life.
That means there are 93 million different stories out there,
different experiences out there and people
(22:47):
at different points along the way.
And that's a lot to share.
That's a lot to get from the people around you.
And if you have a conversation whether you're an active participant
in a group or whether you're just like you said,
just kind of like hanging back and you're just observing
and taking it all in, just still gaining something from that.
Don't ever think that just because you don't go to a group
(23:09):
and actively participate, that you're not gaining something from it
because there's always something to take away.
Whether you just hear someone's story
and you find that connection point and you're like,
"Oh, that just made me feel less alone."
Okay, let's say that was it.
That sometimes is enough.
Or let's say you learned about an online resource.
So you learned about a group or you learned about a strategy
(23:32):
that someone else used that worked, that you didn't try
or think about before.
Then there's your takeaway.
There's what makes it worth it.
So there's so many different ways to show up
and there's so many different ways to be part of it
and you get to make those decisions.
And what's really cool about our podcast
is that we are trying to form that community.
(23:52):
Eventually we will have either a sub-stack group
or something like that so that we can talk openly
and form that community.
We're fortunate enough that we get to talk about this
and I'm not afraid to talk about suicide.
What I want to do is remove that stigma
around the word suicide.
It's really important.
For me, like I said, thankfully I'm alive.
(24:14):
I get to talk about this, but we want to give people
that hope that they'll be okay the next second,
next minute, next hour, next day.
There are people out there that will have your back.
Yeah, well, we've got your back.
So we've got your back.
So thanks all for listening and watch out for us for next week.
Thanks for joining us on the survivors.
(24:35):
Remember, no matter how tough things feel, you are in up
and the world needs you just the way you are.
You're not alone in this journey.
There's a community here and every step forward counts.
We're so grateful you took the time to listen
and we hope they'll take one day at a time.
Just know there's always more light ahead.
Thanks for being here friends.
Just remember, help is out there in so many different places.
(24:58):
So if you or someone you know is struggling,
please call 988 and a trained crisis counselor like me
will be there to help.
You can also find an inclusive and comprehensive directory
of mental health resources, tools and content
at thehelphub.co.
Just remember that help is always just a call
or a click away.
We'll catch you next week.
In the meantime, keep surviving.
(25:19):
[Music]
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