Lizzy Barber on the 500-Word-a-Day Grind, Publishing Doubt, and The Myth of the 5 AM Writer.

We were thrilled to welcome back acclaimed psychological thriller author and Richard & Judy Bestseller, Lizzy Barber, to the show. Lizzy is the author of several gripping novels, including Be Mine, and has a knack for cutting right through the polished facade of the author life to reveal the messy, chaotic, and often hilarious reality.As The Writing Community Chat Show, recently ranked among the top 10 writing podcasts in the UK, we’ve interviewed over 360 authors, from NYT best-sellers to indie superstars. Few, however, have been as candid as Lizzy about the sheer struggle of creative output when life throws everything at you.This conversation is essential listening for anyone who feels they are running out of time, energy, or hope while chasing their writing dreams.1. The Real Cost of ‘The Slow Draft.’Lizzy shared that her current novel, her fifth, has been the slowest to write, a process she describes as being “on ice.” This wasn’t due to a lack of ideas but due to life: the birth of her daughter, dealing with family loss, and major personal hardships.The interview kicked off with a major truth bomb about managing expectations. Lizzy, who is working on this novel while juggling motherhood and dealing with family issues, admitted she has learned to accept a 500-word-a-day target.“I have worked out that for me that has meant 500 words a day. And I’m comfortable with that. And some days I will write a thousand and think, ‘what a great day.’ And then the next day I might write two.”She argues against the perceived hierarchy in the writing community that values speed and high word counts. While some authors happily “splurge 4,000 words a day,” Lizzy opts for quality, slow progress, where her 500 words are likely to be “500 really good words that won’t get cut up or replaced.”This is a powerful reminder: the goal is the finished product, not the speed of the first draft.2. Navigating Publishing: Big Five vs. Indie.Lizzy has the unique experience of having worked with both ‘Big Five’ publishing houses and an indie publisher (Dura). She offered a rare, side-by-side comparison of the two models:3. The Uncomfortable Question: Imposter Syndrome.Perhaps the most resonant part of the conversation for aspiring and established writers alike was Lizzy’s raw honesty about self-doubt.When discussing the draft she just completed after two years, she was upfront about her inner turmoil: “There is a part of me that thinks that this might not actually work as a book and that I might junk it.”This is imposter syndrome at its highest level - the doubt that creeps in after hundreds of hours of work. For Lizzy, this feeling is exacerbated by an “uneven publishing experience” and the anxiety of never finding a constant publisher “home.”“The worst thought is this kind of awareness of never being published again—that you’re kind of you’re done... That’s the kind of constant fear that you kind of live on the highwire of as an author.”Her advice for surviving this? Focus solely on the writing, because that is the only thing you can control. Don’t chase trends, and don’t let external noise or sales charts dictate your self-worth.4. The Author Brand: Be Yourself. (Even If You’re ADHD)Lizzy, who recently started to explore the possibility that she has undiagnosed ADHD, spoke about how she manages her time and how her personality informs her public persona.She admits she is good at jumping into pockets of time but “can’t write around the chaos.” She needs to compartmentalize her writing time, a vital lesson for any busy creative.On building an author brand, her advice is simple: Be authentic.If you are an introvert who hates reels and being on camera, don’t force it, it won’t feel fun or look genuine. But if you, like Lizzy, are comfortable debating, answering difficult questions, and being visible:“I love being on camera. I trained as an actress... I like the sound of my own voice. I don’t mind being silly. I don’t mind being filmed. I say [to my publisher] use me for that. I’m very comfortable to kind of debate and be asked hard questions.”Find your niche, whether it’s through newsletters, blogs, or public appearances, and commit to it. But whatever you do, avoid the pressure to join the “5 a.m. writer’s club” just because it sounds productive. Prioritize your sleep and your process.Watch the Full Interview.Lizzy’s interview is full of crucial, honest advice for writers at every stage of their career. We cover everything from the psychological complexities of her thrillers to the magic of the Harrogate Crime Writers Festival.Watch the full episode below (or listen to the podcast audio):Connect with Lizzy Barber:* Instagram: @byLizzyBarber* Buy Her Books: Available on Amazon, the Dura website, and all good bookstores.Join our brand new community on our Stanstore! After conducting 360 plus interviews, we have

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, and welcome to the Writing Q and E
Chat show. You are watching one of the UK's top
ten writing podcasts and I'm here. My name is Chris,
also go by CJ to make life easier because I'm
here with my co host Chris. I want to know
how you're doing in the chat? How has your week been?
And we're about to find to find out how mister
Hooley's week been. Week has been. Jesus, Chris Hooley, how

(00:22):
are you doing? How is your week being? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Top ten writing podcasts? That sounds good.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
It is good, isn't it. It's great to get that
kind of after nearly six years doing this show. It's
great to have that sort of recognition from a couple
of different blogs. And that was last year we were
actually in the top three and this year we're still
in the top ten, so some have crept up above us,
but yeah, we're still really really tough to be on
those on the radar of the top UK writing podcasts.

(00:52):
So yeah, it's great news.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Good week. What have I been doing this week? I've
been and stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
So I started a series which was the Truth about
the Harry Cuba Affair. Was the first book in the series,
and then it's The Baltimore Boys, and then it is
The Alaska Sanders Affair. And how I got into that
is there was a TV series on Amazon Prime with

(01:23):
the same title of the first book, and it was brilliant.
So I thought, yeah, I keep them a go. I'll
start reading them and see what they're all about.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah, and have you enjoyed.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah, and his name is Joel Dicker, So don't laughaget
I want to try and get him on the show.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
We can't laugh at his surname.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Well, I will for now because he's not on the show.
But yeah, Joel Dicker sounds fantastic. I am just juggling something.
There's the reason the guest is not in the lobby,
and that is my fault completely, So bear with me.
Chris chat to the audience withy.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
So obviously, if you're watching live now or listening live,
thank you so much. We have three hundred and sixty
interviews for you to go and feast at your pleasure.
We've interviewed some of the best writers in the world.
We've also interviewed some self published authors, some indie authors,
some indie publishers. Yeah, if anyone writes, we have probably

(02:20):
interviewed them or at least tried to. So yeah, if
you're into creative writing and you want to improve your
craft and get better, then hopefully this is a show
for you because we speak to authors who are out
there doing it every single year. Let's say most of
them do a booker year, unless you J. W. Barker
and produced four, but yeah, most of them do a

(02:41):
booker year. But if you're in the trenches now and
you're writing trying to get an agent, we've had all
of those people on. We've had editors on, we've had
agents on, we've had New York Times bestsellers on. So yeah,
plenty for.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
You to look out for that, Yes, we did, indeed.
And the reason our guest is not in the lobby
is because I absolutely completely forgot to send the link
out earlier to our guests, and she's even commented on
the Instagram posts the live video, So so sorry, the
email has been sent and she will be with us

(03:18):
very soon, which is fine because this is our general
chit chat time anyway. But yes, it's really good to
get all those authors on the show and speak to
so many different people and get so many different stories,
and we do have our guests in the chat in
the lobby, so thank you. Yeah, it's so good to
have those conversations. And what it does is it really

(03:42):
enriches you with the writing kind of knowledge. While she
don't even realize. There's so much that we've picked up
from the shows, and there's so much you can also
pick up from them as well, And it's just great
because you hear the writing journey and tonight's guest has
been on before. Their writing journey is available on our
podcast and our YouTube channel, and you can go and
check that out if you want to learn about how

(04:02):
she got to where she is. That's all the available
and tonight she has offered us some brilliant advice questions
in advance, so we'll get some deep conversation I'm sure
you'll love.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Very shortly, you're going to go straight into the intrio there.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah, I think I may as well have I will,
I will, I'll get tonight's guest on, so let's do it.
And probably a lot of that what I just said
was in my introduction, so I'm all over the place.
So tonight, as I said, we welcome back the brilliant
Richard and judy best selling author of psychological thrillers, Lizzie Barber.

(04:40):
We've had her on the show before, as I mentioned,
and what we've also had done is meta at Hurrogate
primer As Festival once or twice and had a drink
or two there at the legendary festival. So it's always
a delight to catch up with her. And as I said,
she sent us some great honest talking points ahead of
the show, so we'll get stuck into them very shortly.
And what I'd like to do is get involved in

(05:01):
the chat, make some noise and give a massive w
CCS welcome back to the brilliant, the awesome Lizzie. But hello,
hi boys, how are you? Thank you so much for joining?
How are you doing.

Speaker 4 (05:14):
It's Friday, That's all I can That's all I can say.
It's Friday. I have a gin and tonic. I finished
my book today as well a draft of my book,
so yeah, we're celebrating fabulous.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Thank you so much, honestly and well done. I was
sat there just before the show started saying to Chris,
this is late and it's never normally late, but there
you go. That's my fault. But yeah, honestly, super congratulations
on finishing a draft. It's one of those things that
a lot of authors, like myself at the moment, currently

(05:48):
stuck in a bit of a rut. I think the
end is never going to come so well done. And
is this kind of like the expected timeline that you
had or you behind schedule with this, or what's the
plan with that?

Speaker 4 (05:58):
What I mean, there's never been any sort of schedule
with this, but from my personal timeline, if you want
to believe this, I thought that I would be finished
this book in June twenty twenty four, so over a
year ago. So I I my daughter was born in

(06:19):
June twenty twenty four. She was due in July twenty
twenty fourth, so I thought I would be very timely
and take a month off. I was working at the time,
and decided to take my Matt leave a month early
in order to write, you know, full time, right at
the end of the draft in that month. And then
my daughter came month early, so I got no Matt leave,

(06:44):
and but too, honestly, I've had a bit of a
shit year, so it has, you know, it has just
stumbled and stumbled and stumbled. And I'm quite slow writer anyway,
but this really is slow for me. This is like
on ice level of slow. And so in a way
it's funny because I have finished the draft, but it
has felt supremely unsatisfying. And I think that's also because

(07:08):
this book is the biggest mess at the end of
a draft that I've ever done, because I don't really
do messy first drafts like this, So it's kind of
a weird feeling. I said to my husband when he
came home from work, finish finish the book today, and
he was like, Ah, should we celebrate. I was like,
I don't really know. At least there is an end, yes,
And they always say you can't edit blank page, which

(07:30):
I do really believe, so at least there is there
is stuff to work on.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah, I mean, that's it's definitely a thing for us.
For people in the creative world, you might have an
expectation of a deadline, and you know, even author's on
a schedule, you know, committed deadline. Often don't make that
something that we should be a little more relaxed with,
I think, and less harsh than ourselves when it comes
to deadlines. And if the creative flow is there, great,

(07:55):
you know, work with it. If it's not then, Yeah,
it's you got the end result and that's the most
important thing.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
Yeah, I mean, I would say, obviously it would be
a different story if I was in if I'd been
in any sort of kind of undertime pressure, specific time pressure.
I think I'm also one of those people who actually
works better under deadlines. So the fact that I've had
this kind of amorphous finish it when I finish it
is actually worse for me. And so I imposed myself
a deadline of wanting to finish by the end of November.

(08:25):
And I actually asked my agent if she can give
me a deadline to hand into her in January, because
I just know without that I could just keep tinkering forever.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
M So, Lizzie, why do you think this book has
been on ice? As you mentioned in terms of slow
to write? Is this your most ambitious book today?

Speaker 4 (08:45):
I think it, well, I mean, it's my most kind
of psychologically complex, I would say book. I think it's
literally it's a case of life circumstances. To be honest
with you, you know, we had a new baby, my
dad died in February.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
My mum.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
Had a fall and has been kind of in at
hospital with a hip replacement. So it's been sort of
you know, life stuff in the way, which has been
very hard to write about, to be honest, but I do.
It's not it's not ambitious, be mine. I think is
my most ambitious in terms of kind of twists and
kind of fast pacedness. But I think this is really

(09:25):
kind of veering into the psychological side of psychological thriller.
And I would say that anyway, I tend to veer
that way, but this is just kind of headfirst into
a lot of quite complex, knotty issues.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
Is that always the plan or did you find that
when bad things were happening in your life that your
writing went darker.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
No, I think I've.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
Always been interested in the psychological side of things. What
I would say is my father and I had quite
a up front. My father and I had quite a
complex relationship, and we were pretty much as strange. But definitely,
you know, this stuff kind of seeps in to your writing.
And actually he had dementia that it wasn't what he

(10:11):
died of, and you know, one of the things that
I've been interested in this dementia and how far back
dementia goes, and so that's actually something that I was
kind of researching has kind of crept its way into
the plot. So it's not necessarily the darkness, but certainly
kind of subject matters that I've been dealing with at
the time, influences from around my life.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
I love that obviously bringing it.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
I don't love all of the hardship that you've had
send in the comments, but I love the fact they've
used it in a positive way and you've channeled it
into your writing, which you know, some people find it
really difficult to do that. They can't have a difficult
life and get a book finished at the same time.
So if we went into the day to day, then
you said it was the slowest book to write. What

(10:57):
was the sort of day to day like for you?
Obviously mentioned about having a young baby, and then obviously
the problems with your mom and dad and stuff.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
So how much would you get down on a page
of every day?

Speaker 4 (11:10):
So it took me a really long time. I would
say probably until at least the summer to get into
any sort of flow. I would also say that my
b mine came out in May, and so the period
from I think maybe a month after my daughter was

(11:32):
born last June, I had edits on that book to
do with no childcare whatsoever, and so I was basically
just editing in the gym crash because that was the
only childcare I had, which was sort of two hours
a day max. And then I did get some part
time help starting in January, but we're talking up till
half a day, three days a week. So it's been

(11:55):
very much as in when I had the time, and
I've worked out that for me that has meant five
hundred words a day. I'm comfortable with that. And some
days I will write a thousand and think what a
great day, and then the next day I might write two.
And I think that actually I put a reel up

(12:16):
about it recently because I think that it's very difficult
because there are so many writers out there who write
really fast, messy drafts in six weeks or you know,
they talk about their word counts and they talk about splurging.
You know, oh, I do four thousand words a day.
And I think that that's fantastic if they do it.
But I think that there is a real kind of
perceived hierarchy to that that people think that because they

(12:39):
have this incredible output, that they are somehow kind of
smashing it, whereas people who go slowly on. Whereas I
think that I like, I think I'm quite a considered writer.
I find it very difficult to write messily, which is
why this draft is so unbelievably messy for me, because
I'm trying. I'm trying to do it differently and then

(13:00):
try to just get something down and get to the end.
Whereas I think five hundred words for me tend to
be five hundred really good words that won't get cut
up or replaced.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
So if we take that, then obviously you talked about
being a new mother, and obviously you're a wife as well,
like all that chaos that you've got just of the
day to day in terms of being a mum of.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
A young child and you know an older one as well.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
So two wow, No, just obviously trying to divide your
time between all of those things, because obviously I know
what it's like in terms of kids vying for attention,
you know, partner vying for attention, Like how do you
find the time to sort of create in that space?
Obviously you've mentioned about trying to hit five hundred words

(13:46):
a day, but how do you navigate the sort of
you know, time process to sort of think about, Oh,
this is going to be the next idea, or this
is the next thing I need to write.

Speaker 4 (13:56):
I think. I mean, I'm one of those people who
probably I'm coming slowly to the terms of the fact
that I have ADHD undiagnosed. My son's just been diagnosed,
and so I've been on this journey with him where
I'm realizing all of these things about myself, and so
I have to be permanently doing stuff. And I've always
been very, very busy. And I wrote my first book
when I was working full time, and that came out

(14:17):
right before my son was born. And then I've subsequently
this is the first book I've written where I haven't
also been working part time, writing part time, and parenting
most of the time. And so I think that I
am very good at jumping into pockets of time when
I have them and being right in there. And I
think that it's good and bad because the book permanently

(14:40):
lives in my head. So if I'm going for a
run and I'm listening to a podcast, I'm thinking about
my book and I can't remember what one of the
podcasts has been about. Or if I'm taking the bus
to pick up my son from school. I'm grappling with
the book. You know, it never really goes away. But
what I can't do is writ around the chaos. So
I can't, you know, I know, I know people write

(15:01):
in the evenings after the kids have gone to bed,
or you know, they'll take an hour on the weekend.
I can't. I can't do that. I really need to
compartmentalize stuff. And so my writing time is the kind
of the three days a week where I have a
part time learning, and then I am very lucky that
my daughter is a very good napper, and so I
write the rest of the time. She know, she'll nap
for two hours a day and I'll write in those

(15:23):
that time. But obviously around that there is still everything,
all the other life stuff that creeps in as well.
So you know, any dentist or doctor's appointments, or cleaning
up the house or doing the shopping and going to
the gym, all of that stuff has to fit to
that time as well. So I have pockets of free time,

(15:44):
and those free time, that free time is also kind
of encroached upon by life stuff. And so I've just
learned that I have to jump in when I can,
and I jump in and jump out.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
So do you jump into the writing before, like, because
obviously I've been in similar situations where you like all that,
Let's say the house needs tidy and I've got an
hour I'm going to tidy that, and then you think, oh,
i'll right after tidy in and then you've realized the
hour's gone, the kids are back, You've lost your time.
How do you sort of manage that sort of space?
Is it like I'll write first, I'll do a ten

(16:16):
minute sprint or whatever, and then I'll jump on to
the tidy in the house.

Speaker 4 (16:21):
It really depends a lot on what's niggling me and
what is you know, what headspace I'm in. Sometimes I
just find that if I know that there are dirty
dishes at the side of the sink, I can't think
about writing until I've done that. Sometimes if I'm grappling

(16:43):
with this scene and I just really need to get
it done, then that needs to take presents. So I've
got a whole load of house admin stuff, and I
had said I wanted to finish the book midweek and
then Friday today I was going to spend solely doing
the house stuff. And then I didn't finish Thursday, and
so I thought, Okay, Friday morning, I will finish, and

(17:04):
then I will do the house stuff. And I could
very easily have gone, Okay, well, whatever happens, I'll do
the house stuff on Friday and I'll push the book
until Monday. But I thought, you know what, the house
stuff can wait, or I can find a pocket of
time for that over the weekend when the kids are busy,
because I want to finish this book today and I
need to get it out of my brain and off

(17:25):
my plate. And so then the scales tipped. But it's
all priorities. As I'm sure you guys are used to
juggling as well. You know, it's kind of what is
absolutely vital in that moment.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah, it's one of those things, isn't it. Where there's
a lot of authors out there that or people who
want to be authors, and they literally use the phrase
I don't have the time, and it's something that every
single author deals with, whether the full time writers or not.
You've still got to find the time to organize your
life and you're writing and splitting it between the's situations.
You have to deal with creative flow. So it's you know,

(18:02):
it's one of those things where you've just got to
find your own time on what works for you. And
as you said, you know, certain things work and certain
things don't. And some people, you know, can wake up
in the middle of the night and find the time
to write, or some people can get up in the morning,
and some people have to wait till late at night.
So it's really about finding what works for you. I
think is the is the key there for people who

(18:23):
are still trying to figure that out.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
Yeah, I would also say I have absolutely zero interest
in setting an alarm for five am and working like
I cannot tell you how low on my proortis it is.
I need to I need at least a seven on
the clock to wake up, So I just writing is
not more important than me wake up at seven o'clock.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
The five am writers Club, I think you've got a
lot really enjoy it.

Speaker 4 (18:48):
No, maybe some people do. And that's another thing it's
a real bugbear of mine again with the kind of
people who have these huge word counts, is that again
there is a real kind of perceived hierarchy to people
who wake up early, that thinking them as being more productive.
And I don't think that that's true. They've just woken
up earlier. If they then go to sleep at eight
nine o'clock, they're not any more productive than somebody who's

(19:10):
working up at seven and gone to sleep at eleven.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah. No, I agree, it's just a.

Speaker 4 (19:14):
Personal personal irritation of Mine's somebody who likes to speak
from eleven am to seven a m.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
So Olizzie obviously mentioned about potentially having undiagnosed ADHD. So
my question sort of attached to that is, how do
you decide on a story idea that you think you
can commit your time and effort to when you get
into my.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
House and my husband can deal with it. There's nothing
important at twenty plus a at night that somebody is
to knock on the door for.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
That's true. Yeah, So how do you decide this is
the idea that I'm going to dedicate my mind to?

Speaker 3 (19:56):
Because obviously, I think one of the things that book
to try and concentrate for a long period of time
on one particular idea when you're creative and you've probably
got so many different ideas coming in, So how do
you decide on the one that you've got and then
stick with it?

Speaker 4 (20:15):
With me, it's a funny thing because I always find
it's like my brain starts to get impatient as I'm
getting to the end of a previous book, and that
idea kind of takes holder of me and gets stronger
and stronger. I don't think I will. I'll occasionally have
kind of, you know, glancing blows of ideas throughout the process,
and I have a kind of a keep a note

(20:37):
section on my phone of book ideas, but those are
more kind of you know, what if X, what if
a woman falls in love with the plant? You know,
just kind of jumping off points. But then I do
just tend to have something that gets stronger and stronger
and stronger as I'm writing the book, so that by
the time I finished writing the previous book, I'm chumping

(20:58):
at the bit to start writing this other book. I
don't know why it works like that. I don't know
whether you know. I have friends who have kind of
several ideas that they jot down, and then they'll send
them to their agent and say, which one of these
do you like? I don't. I don't work like that,
and I you know, I've already got the next idea
for the book that I want to write after this

(21:19):
and I've had it for a few weeks now, and
it's almost kind of propelling me to finish the previous
one before. It's good that Scott appreciates my love for
the Venus Flikap definitely fantastic film.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
Having multiple ideas and sending it through. I think that's
Do you think that's the case of that author potentially thinking, Okay,
these are some ideas I've got, let's see what sticks,
without really having a passion for one over the other. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:49):
I mean again, I think that, you know, I spend
a lot of time talking to writer friends, you know,
kind of every single day voice notes, message is where
we're doing, what we're at. We talk a lot about
our process, and I think that what it's made me
realize is that really everybody does have a unique process,

(22:09):
and there's always a case of grass is greener, and
there's always a case of like, oh, next time, I'm
going to plot my book like Blar does, or I'm
going to think of ten ideas like Blar does, and
then you know, my life will be so much easier.
But I think it is just the case of how
you work. I think the people who maybe who have
those kind of bullet point. You know, lots of different ideas.
They might tend to be more plot first rather than character,

(22:33):
whereas for me, I think character definitely comes to me.
Character and kind of atmosphere and feeling comes to me
before I have a kind of blow by blow plot
and I actually find plot, you know, the literally the
beats of a book is. I struggle with the most
of all of it.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
Some of the stuff you said through to me earlier
about talking points, some of it was really interesting. And
one of them you said potentially like a hot topic,
which was publishing versus self publishing and you know, working
with publishing houses. So that's a conversation I thought, yeah,
I'd love to talk about it, especially with someone who's
kind of gone through the transition. So why did you

(23:15):
feel like you needed to sort of change directions?

Speaker 4 (23:19):
I didn't. Just to be clear, I didn't self published
that they're just they're an indie publisher.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Rather than the big fellow publisher.

Speaker 4 (23:24):
Yes, I don't know anything about self publishing, So just
before you ask me questions on that, I think I
think the landscape is changing a lot. I think that
you know, as the kind of typical cliche author who
has kind of had visions of certain publishing houses in

(23:45):
my head. That's always been a direction that I've wanted
to go down, and I think that I was really
interested to give a different perspective a try. And it
has been really different and very interesting because I've gone
from two big five publishers to a kind of hungry
indie and just everything about it is very different. I think,

(24:10):
you know, the big things that strikes me is is
the cover design process, because when you're with a Big five,
you're you're so much part of the machine that they're like,
this is the cover. Any any thoughts unless you kind
of vehemently opposed to it, this is what's happening. Whereas
with B mine my I remember having lunch with my

(24:32):
editor and she had this kind of folder of like
almost at vision boards of different things, and she'd said
to me previously, you know, what covers do you like?
What do you think? And then she sent me all
of these things and different briefs and was like what
do you think? And I was like, you're asking me,
grusk me what I think. And it was brilliant because

(24:52):
then they sent round you know, we whittled it and
whittled it down and even actually we didn't. I didn't
like the Star Gone with and I knew that another
writer with De Torah had had this fantastic cover, Alice,
who wrote The Glass Woman, and she'd said the name
of the designer, I think it's called Mark. I think

(25:13):
Mark Dawson. I would double check that was definitely Mark,
and I said, oh, I loved his cover. Is it
possible to get him? And they were like, yeah, sure,
And then they sent me these designs and literally down
to the level of you know, I sent it to
my agent, she sent it around the agency, and we
had all this feedback and kind of opinion polls, and
then we said, you know, we didn't like there was
a door knocker that had the eight symbol of it,

(25:33):
so we said, oh, can we see it without that?
And actually, can we see the shadows of the palm
leaves over the front and set. It became this really
collaborative process that I just was not used to at
all with my previous books, because it was like, this
is the cover, so things like that, and I think
generally it's been a really it's been a really collaborative
process in a way that I haven't really experienced before.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
So what were your expectations. Then, obviously you talked about
coming from the two five publishers, what were your expectations
before you went with them? And then what are your
expectations before you opt to to go with an indie
and how have they been different from what you actually
initially thought.

Speaker 4 (26:14):
I mean, it's it's difficult to say what my expectations
were before going into the Big five because I didn't
know anything else. I mean, one of the things actually
that I mentioned to chris a about about genre is
that before publishing my first book, my Name is Anna,

(26:37):
I had no thoughts about genre. I didn't think of
myself as being a thriller writer. I thought of myself
as being a writer who had this idea for a book,
and this was book. And one of the things that
was kind of necessarily having my eyes open, but that
I hadn't really appreciated, was that they were like, you know,
this is a commercial thriller book, and this is the

(26:58):
kind of cover you have, bocuse you're a commercial thriller,
And then what commercial piller are you going to write next?
And I didn't, you know, I didn't have an expectation
at all. I didn't realize this kind of being part
of this machine meant being part of the genre writing
side of things. So that was interesting for me. I
think that going into an indie again, I had no

(27:22):
idea because I hadn't had an experience before. But I
didn't expect it to be so collaborative because I hadn't
experienced that before and I didn't expect, you know, I
was probably used to a certain formality that you get
with a big publishing house, and so that was nice,
but also a little bit kind of I wouldn't say alarming,

(27:44):
but just kind of a difference for me was that
I was used to kind of sales reports and kind
of weakly you know, information being passed on to me,
whereas kind of asking for that. They were almost like,
what you want sales information? You know that, So that
was different. It's much it's much greener, and it's much
more organic in an Indian environment, which is great because

(28:06):
you're so much closer to people, you know, I have.
I've had a fantastic relationship with the marketing manager and
I've suggested, you know, ideas for things like did you
guys get the tattoos at Harrogate?

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (28:19):
Yeah, So I said to April, the marketing manager at
De Torah. I can't remember what it was for, but
I was like, it'd be really cool if we could
get some of the the infinity symbol, which is a
kind of big part of the book tattoos made up.
And she was like, oh, yeah, great, and I'll you know,
I'll get some extra feve. And so I had these

(28:40):
things which you wouldn't necessarily get that from a big publisher.
You know, I've had to make my own postcards and
make my own flyers and do all of that kind
of stuff my own with a big publisher, whereas they
were just there was so excited about those kind of
small details. In a smaller publisher, there's there's so much
more attention and so much more time for you, I
suppose is the kind of overriding thought.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
That's what I was going to ask off kind of
having worked with, say, the Big Five, was there anything
that you've taken with your professional experience to them that
they've learned from you?

Speaker 4 (29:14):
Interestingly, I don't know if it's a professional experience that
I've that I've necessarily learned from a Big Five, but
I think I'm probably I were kind of you don't ask,
you don't get type person. And I remember they came
to Harrogate for the first time and had printed out
some flyers and kind of said, inside the tents. So

(29:36):
anybody who hasn't need to Harrogate, I've said it before,
it's our Glastonbury, Okay, it's the big, the big festival
for authors and people interested in crime and thrillers. And
they're inside the tent, which is where all the action happens.
There are these kind of trestle tables, and they said, all,
do you think it's okay for us to leave flyers about?
And I was like, given to me. I went and

(29:58):
put them out. And I think that there's maybe you
get like a certain ballsiness or can you back yourself
having had that experience, whereas if you're India you kind
of are finding your feet a little bit more. So
i'd say that kind of thing. I would say that
I kind of took over and didn't feel particularly kind
of embarrassed about doing. But that might just be my
general nature.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
So for someone who's who's very busy in you know,
your personal life, in writing and doing everything you know
at a high level, just you know, really kind of
busy in life. What does it mean then to have
something like the Harroget Crime Right as Festival where you
can go in and focus solely on your sort of
your persona as an author. How was that? How does

(30:40):
that differ and how does that feel?

Speaker 4 (30:42):
Oh, it's amazing, I'm already booked three nights next to you.
It is. You're so right, it is. It's it's very
weird stepping wholly into that role. And actually two years
ago my daughter was she was five weeks old, and
we I was going. So we went and we rented

(31:03):
a house in Harrogate with my whole fact in my
immediate family and my husband and both kids, and my
mother in law came up with us. And I found
that really tricky because I had been previous, I'd only
ever been as a mum, because I only started writing,
I was only published when I had my son. But
I had only ever been up by myself before. And

(31:25):
then suddenly I felt like I had my foot in
both camps. It was a bit like it's a bit
like being a teenager, but you're living at home where
you know you're going out to the London teenager like
going out clubbing, and then your Mom's like, would you
want for dinner? What time are you home? And You're like, mom,
you's something. I felt like that, like I had to
justify going out to my husband and my mother in

(31:46):
law and like telling them what my plans were in
a way they had experienced. Whereas this year it was
just golden because I was like, I can sleep in
if I want to, if I don't, if I want
to leave the tent at twelve, I'm going to leave
the tent at twelve. I don't care. So it's brilliant,
it's really freeing, and it's very nice again, you know,
being you know mum Marlowe. My son is called Marlowe,

(32:10):
you know Marlow's mum at school. It's very nice to
solely be known as Lizzie Barbo and author. It's very validating.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
Do you ever get any of the parents that kind
of recognize you as an author from reading your work?

Speaker 4 (32:26):
No, I wouldn't say that way round. Although they've just
launched a book club and they asked me to be
the kind of inaugural book and so I went along
to the book club. It was last week, which was
really sweet. Actually, I think, you know, to be fair,
my son's school is in the city, and the parents
are all quite kind of finance type, so I'm like

(32:47):
the weird art person. I don't I don't think that
many of them necessarily read fiction a lot, so I
don't think it's I think it's kind of I'm like
a bit of an order to but I don't think
anybody's necessarily done it the reverse way around of having
read my books and then realizing who I am. I
don't particularly think I'm that successful yet, to be honest.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
So, Lizzie, I was going to ask you again, going
back a little bit about the publishers and obviously the
big five in the indie I was going to ask,
based on what you now know, what would be if
someone was in your position in terms of, you know,
let's say they've got book one and they don't know
what they want to do, what would be your red
flags and green flags?

Speaker 4 (33:32):
I think I think it's all about the editor. I
think that for me and what I would certainly look for.
What I would want is an editor who is really
passionate about you as an author, and it's not necessarily
your book, because I think that publishing is incredibly fickle

(33:52):
and they run after the next big thing. I think
that a green flag would be definitely somebody who was
talking about you your career, where they see you and
building a brand rather than focusing solely on the book.
I think focusing solely on the book would potentially be

(34:12):
a red flag for me because I think that that
says that they can very easily drop you. Yeah, but
I don't. I don't, unfortunately, I don't think probably across publishing.
This is probably incredibly candid thing to say, but I
don't think that there is that much loyalty unless you
are a big brand, and I think you have to

(34:34):
remember the end of the day that it is a
business and the financials are important.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
On that then obviously I think you're very good at
promoting your own Again, I'm going to seal from MAGA
in terms of these when you mentioned about persona you're
author persona online, I think you're very very good at
and I remember having a conversation with you harrogat about
being in a brand as an author and the things
that you need to do. So again, what advice would

(35:03):
you give to somebody if they were looking to improve
their brand.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
Do you mean from a kind of a presence or
from a from a book perspective or kind of in
the writing perspective.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
Yeah, I'd say both in terms of how can they
improve their craft in terms of the finished products, and
how can they improve their brands as in, like, you know, their.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Social media presence or their readership and things like that.

Speaker 4 (35:29):
Well, I think from a from a social media kind
of you know, person persona presence, I would say that
it is all about doing things that feel authentic to you.
So I, you know, there are lots of authors who
are total introverts, and they hate doing stuff on camera,

(35:50):
and they hate doing interviews, and the idea of doing
reels makes their skin coll so don't do it. You know,
there's no people will sense that it's no fun for everyone.
I am not. I don't have the time or the
inclination to do newsletters or sub stacks. But there may

(36:11):
be plenty of authors out there who feel that they
have a lot to offer. So I think it is
about finding your niche. I love being on camera. I
trained as an actress. I wanted to be an actress
for years. I like the sound of my own voice.
I don't mind being silly, I don't mind being filmed
and I say, you know, every publisher that I'm with,
I say, use me for that. I love being in

(36:32):
front of an audience. I love doing interviews on camera
stuff you're on panels. I'm very comfortable to kind of
debate and be asked pard questions and Chris h you
ask me lots of uncomfortable questions in Harrigan in the Tent,
and I don't. I don't mind that at all. I'm
used to. I'm also used to kind of difficult characters,

(36:56):
so I'm I don't mind that. But if that is
something that makes your skin craol, don't do it.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Are you saying I'm a difficult character?

Speaker 4 (37:05):
No, I'm just saying that. Nothing really me. I can
answer any question.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
I get that. And definitely, you know, during those interviews
you can tell and it's says who leads a difficult character? Yeah,
you can tell. Like you're You're very comfortable in front
of the audience, and that is a good thing. And
there's a lot of authors that are very much behind
the screen introverts that do struggle with that. And I've

(37:32):
spoken about it before. Was going somewhere like the Harrogate
grimar as firstival or to your local library or anyway
that readers might be, and just getting yourself out there
can be massively beneficial. So I think more people should
try and push themselves to be a bit more like you, Lizzie.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
What I don't know, though I would say, don't push
your There are so many avenues to being to being
a present as an author, you know. Luckily. Funny enough,
I was talking to Charlotte Duckworth, who's one of my
best or the friends, about acting, and she asked me
whether it was difficult, whether acting was more difficult than

(38:11):
being an author, and I said to one of the
great things about it is that when you're trying to
get an agent, when you're an actress, you need to
be in something for them to come and see you,
whereas for being an author. You know, obviously there's the
same amount of rejection. It's difficult on both levels. But
to try and get an agent, you can physically submit
a piece of paper. You don't have to be showing yourself.

(38:33):
So I think that you know it is a written medium,
and if you feel more comfortable hiding behind the screen
or behind words, then there are avenues to being successful
where you can do that rather than pratting about insta,
which is what I spend most of my time.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
We've got a question from Anya, and as I mentioned
in the chat, this is not a usual road to
writing show. Lizzie's been on the show before to do that.
So if you have a question for Lizzie, please send
them in and we'll ask them throughout the show. And
it says, what are the greatest challenges you believe emerging
writers' face and how well how can they overcome these obstacles.

Speaker 4 (39:12):
I mean, I think that one of one of the
challenges is just oversaturation. I just I think even since
I saw my first book was published in twenty nineteen,
even since I've started writing, I think there is just
there are just more and more. I don't know whether
it's because authors of writing and reading has become a

(39:33):
kind of sexier industry. More people are reading, you know,
the TikTok application of everything that there is just a
lot of people. So I think that is difficult because
there's a lot of noise, and so I think it
is just about you know, honing your craft and sharpening
exactly what it is you're writing and believing in what
you're writing. I think the other problem is, And I

(39:54):
don't know what the answer to that is, but I
think that a major problem facing any author today is
big brands and the general inability to cut through when
so much of the market share goes to such a
small percentage of writers. I mean not that these writers

(40:16):
don't deserve it, but you look at the Sunday Times
top ten and it is Richard Osmond and Colin Hoover,
and it's the same with New York Times and absolutely
well deserved to them. But whereas even when I published
my first book six years ago, Sunday Time I Think
my Name Is Anna charted at twelve and the Heartbag

(40:38):
hard Back chart, and so actually, for me then Sunday
Times was not a showing, but it was something that
I can envisage myself getting at some point in my
life if I continued. Now it's not even the consideration
for me, just because it is so oversaturated and there
is so much money in those big brands. I don't know.

(40:59):
I don't know how you overcome those as a writer,
except to just maybe reconsider what success looks like for you.
And there are so many different avenues to success, right,
and there are also so many different barometers for success,
like success for one person might be just finishing a book.
For another, it might be publishing it. For another, it

(41:20):
might be publishing it in hardback or winning awards. You know,
I suppose the good thing about writing is that there
are lots of opportunities for feeling validated. It's just you know,
maybe seeing what is realistic for you to set your
sights on.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yeah, it's one thing that I go back to is
a bit as a tip that it relates to writing
and relates to creative industries and working like the podcast
and everything and look at it stats, and it's about
enjoying the process, not the result. And I think if
you can get into that mindset that you're just you're
creating work, you're enjoying that process and you know someone

(41:56):
might read it, and if so, great. If you're doing that,
I think the pressures are off those sort of end
results and it might feel a little easier at times.

Speaker 4 (42:05):
Yeah, I think that's definitely true. And certainly my kind
of writers WhatsApp group, we constantly remind ourselves that the
writing is the only thing that you can control. Yeah,
So if you are loving that and you are focusing
on that, you need to cut out the rest of
the noise. And even on a genre level, you know,

(42:26):
I think if you start trying to kind of move
towards trends or think, you know, oh I hear that
romantity is the big new trend, all write that, that
is where things get really dangerous because you're you're already
behind basically, so you've got you've got to just back
what you're writing, love what you're writing, and then the
rest will hopefully follow.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yeah, good, Thank you Anya for that question. If you
have any more people, please do send them in.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
So I keep having a little smirk because uncomfortable questions
and at tent should be a new statement. The only
reason why that happened is because we've chatting to loads
of people at Harrigan and ask them questions and normally
they would kind of walk away, and you just stayed

(43:15):
and you answered all the questions, and then my brain
just kept ask this, ask this, ask this, and yeah,
before I remember Chris just walking away from the conversation.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
He was like just chatting away.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
But we've talked about a lot of the things we've
mentioned tonight, you know, in terms of you know, the ADHD,
and I remember you talking about your children and.

Speaker 4 (43:40):
How yeah, yeah, my son hadn't been diagnosed. Actually he
got his diagnosis.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
Well, you see a different side to being an author,
Like a lot of people like would like to paint
the image of Oh, I sit at my desk and
I write these words and then the book just magically
comes out and they don't talk talk about the trials
that they have going through it and the difficulties they
can face.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
And I think.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
The more people that do that, the better it is
in terms of making it realistic for people to actually
achieve this dream that they have because a lot of
people watch the show and you know, they'd like to
write a book or you know, they're drowning their own
self doubt or can't do it, I haven't got the time.
But when they hear stories like yours, it becomes more
achievable in terms of do you know what she can do?

Speaker 2 (44:27):
All that? Then I can find the time to maybe
work on the idea that I've got And.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
You know, maybe we do bring a section called Uncomfortable
Questions in a Tent, But I was going to say,
has anyone got an uncomfortable question.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
For us that's watching now? Yeah, we might as well
as long as.

Speaker 4 (44:45):
They're not, you know, not eighteen bus.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Were a good group.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Yeah, yeah, uncomfortable questions. There are some people that can
answer those pretty well. There's some people that can't. And
I think we're in a safe group right now. Yes,
we'll fill to any questions that might be a bit inappropriately,
don't you worry. Yeah, So the draft is finished now,

(45:13):
so that process is taking you a while, as you mentioned,
So for people interested in the process, what is the
next step for you, and in relation to the indie
press as well, what happens between the finished draft which
happened today and what happens between that and the next
step and getting it too in front of Readier's basically, so.

Speaker 4 (45:33):
I spent twenty minutes after having finished the draft trying
to work out how to change the font on Scrivener,
which is a writing platform that I use, which is
I would really recommend by the way, I've only used it.
This is the third no, this is maybe the second

(45:53):
book I've bring it on. Yeah, so b mine was
the first book I've used it, and it is really
fantastic For somebody with a really old brain like me
who to break things up into segments, have chapters be
able to move stuff around. So the first thing I
have done is change the font because I because I
have been writing this book for such a long time,

(46:16):
I'm too I get I've got screen eyes, so it
sounds really silly. But I have changed the font so
that I can look at it with fresh eyes. And
then I basically just I'm going to go to the
start and it needs a heat. I cannot tell you
it needs a huge amount of editing, and some chapters
I have left notes for myself, and like, I know

(46:37):
that presently is going to fucking hate past me because
past me has been like when you rewrite this chapter,
do X, which is so much more work. But it
was just one of those things where I was like,
I need to move on. So I need to deal
with all of that. And then I am giving it
to my agent on the twelfth of January. Put that
deadline in, and then I'm going to wait for her feedback.

(47:00):
But I am going to be entirely honest with you,
because I probably am way too candid, and wait, honest,
there is a part of me that thinks that this
might not actually work as a book, and that I
might junk it and it is so painful to think
about because I have spent the best part of two
years writing it, but I have doubts in my mind

(47:20):
as to whether this will actually be able to be
There are a lot of things that I worry don't work,
And it's just a case of if she feels the
same way and she reads it, I hope she's not watching,
but if she feels the same way, I am very
prepared for her to say this isn't the book, because
I think that I'm kind of ready to take a

(47:45):
step up in my career with whatever I do next,
and I haven't had not with b mine, but I've
had a kind of quite an uneven publishing experience previously
and I don't really want to go through that process again.
And so I am putting my big gul on and
if she comes if she comes around and says, it'll work,

(48:05):
but you're going to basically have to write this, we
write this entire book, I am very prepared to give
her the idea for the new book and say do
you think that we should Do you think that we
should just work on this?

Speaker 1 (48:19):
My advice for that would be definitely don't mention any
of this to her. And don't give her the preconception
of your doubts because that might put it in the
head that doesn't work, that makes sense that book.

Speaker 4 (48:34):
Then yeah, but we'll see what she says. But I'm
fully that that is in the back. But if she
says it's great, you know, the normal level of stuff
that you have to work on after you've done a draft,
which you know there will be structural stuff, there will
be character stuff. But she says the bones are there,
then I will work it on it with her until

(48:54):
we both think that it isn't good enough shape to
take it out to on permission.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
Sorry, I was going to ask an uncomfortable question there.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
Why do you think you've got that niggling sort of
doubt in the back of your mind. Is it because
you are consciously trying to take that next step up
in your career.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
Is it because it's taken you a little bit longer
than normal and you feel like maybe that's kicking in
with the doubt.

Speaker 4 (49:21):
It's probably both. I also think that this is the
fifth book I've written, and I think you do get
a kind of spidy sense of when stuff is working
and when it's not working. And I think I love
the setup. I love the characters, but I'm not sure
whether I'm trying to fit square pegs into round holes
with the actual plot mechanics, and that I'm kind of

(49:43):
yadda yaddering certain stuff that doesn't actually tie in together
because it fits my purposes. To be totally honest with you,
but I definitely think that a lot of it is
it feels stale to me because I've been writing it
so long. Actually, one of those things where it's funny,
I you know, if you write it, if you write

(50:06):
a scene over too long a period of time. In
my head, I'm like, oh, fuck, they've been buying on
for ages, and they actually haven't. It's just it's taken
me so long to write this scene that it feels like,
you know, they've been in a coffee shop for weeks,
and actually it's the normal time that they'd be in
a coffee shop in a scene. So there's definitely a
sense of that, and it feels very stagnant to me.

(50:28):
But I just have an I have a sixth sense
that it's not stuff isn't working, and I'm I feel
like the last time I sent a book to an
agent for the first time was a few years ago now,
and so I kind of don't really remember what it's
how much work goes into a book. I keep telling myself.
In the first draft of Out of Her Depth, the

(50:50):
main character was an Oxford professor who killed the antagonist
on the Bridge of Size and like bashed her brains
against the bridge, And that has all gone completely gone.
So I keep telling myself like, stuff does change it
just if I just have a sense that there's a
lot of work that needs to be done on this.

(51:12):
But we'll see.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
I'll keep you posted, you'll get there. We've got a
question that kind of links into what you were just
talking about, and it's from Halo Uncomfortable question, Thank you.
What's the worst thought you've heard about your writing? It
could have been what you just spoke about, and how
did you overcome it slaughtering imposter syndrome question mark.

Speaker 4 (51:31):
I'm not sure I understand the bit about slaughtering imposter syndrome.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
Question. Is that kind of one of the one of
the things I did?

Speaker 4 (51:40):
Yeah, No, I still have an imposter syndrome. I think
that I think the worst thought is this kind of
awareness of never being the thought of never being published again,
that you're kind of you're done, and that is I
suppose something that hangs over me with this book is
like is that is that it? And especially on a

(52:01):
genre sense, you know, it's like our thrilla is dead?
Is my thriller dead? Will will anyone publish me again?
That that's the kind of constant fear that you kind
of live on the high wire of as an author,
I think, And I think that's probably partly because I've
moved around. I've had three different three different publishing houses,

(52:22):
and so I don't have I keep I keep saying
like orfan Annie, I'm like, I just want a home.
I just want to I just want an editor who
loves me, you know. But I think that is part
of it, is I I haven't had that constant reassurance
and that constant kind of backing from the same publisher,
which you know has good and bad points. But it's

(52:43):
a world for security, So I haven't overcome it. So
if you've got any any tips for that, you can
tell me.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Yep. Ross says, thank you very much for us. How
do you deal with uncomfortable people asking you less questions
in a tent.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Um?

Speaker 4 (53:04):
Just drink more?

Speaker 2 (53:06):
Yeah, that's pretty much what you did.

Speaker 4 (53:09):
Yeah, like I said, I don't really mind uncomfortable questions
because yeah, I quite quite fun.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
But Ross also said alternatively three different publishing houses of
back to your writing, which is freaking awesome, which it is,
so definitely.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
Thank you for that.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
Ross. Yeah, any more uncomfortable questions? And yeah, I've got
one on.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
So if you didn't get published again, would it change
how you feel about writing?

Speaker 4 (53:40):
I think once you get to this stage, yes, I
think once it becomes your career. And you know, I
think my life has changed completely in the last couple
of years in that I'm not working any So. I
was working in the restaurant business my brother for nearly
fifteen years, and he's taken he took a step back

(54:00):
at the time that it coincided with me going on
that lead, and so I haven't gone back to work,
and so it has this is my you know, the
last eighteen months is my time as being a full
time author. And so I think being a full time
author and having that as your career and not being published,
it stops being a hobby or something you do for

(54:21):
yourself or do for fun. So I think if I
was never published again, I don't think I would write
again necessarily. I think that kind of doing it for pleasure,
maybe you know, I would do it for somebody else's pleasures,
and maybe I would start telling stories to writing stories
for my children or telling stories to my children. But
I definitely don't think I would tinker with a book
unless I had considered was considering it being published.

Speaker 3 (54:46):
Do you not think that you could have other avenues
in terms of you said about being an actress that
you could write screenplays or you could write scripts, so
you could.

Speaker 4 (54:55):
Yeah, yeaheah, sorry, yeah, and actually writing generally right scripts
are writing screenplays is something that I would in any
way I love to look into further down the line. Actually,
one out of her debt is under option, which is,
you know, is a tiny percent of a tiny percentage
of a tiny chance going anywhere. But one of the

(55:17):
things that I have said is that if it ever
reaches that incredible height of actually going anywhere, I would
to even if it's not films many years ago as
a baby intern and loved being part of. So yeah,
I definitely sege you're not going to be writing poetry.

(55:38):
That's not going to happen. But you know, I'd love
to write. I'd love to be in a writer's room,
you know, or doing doing scripts, you know, being on
the succession team, that kind of thing. I'd love to do, if.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
You're interested in the writing room. We re floated this
idea a couple of times over the year or two years.
We're going to do it YouTube sort of series of
basically writers in the therapy session, writers room in Zoom
basically yeah, Zoom based writers therapy group. A comedy. But yeah,

(56:14):
we haven't taken it anywhere, but that was one of
our ideas and I think would be good to watch.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
I think it's a busy bar of poetry now that
you like. You never get me writing poetry, but I'm
thinking I'm not a poet.

Speaker 4 (56:31):
I like or a limerick.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
You could do either, but.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
When you go to Harrogate, we should all write a
poem and we should have to deliver it in the tent.

Speaker 4 (56:45):
Okay, fine, I'll see the next year.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Yeah, we have opera and that was amazing. Did you
see that? No, Miranda?

Speaker 1 (56:56):
Oh yeah, doing opera, yes, whilst it was the stuff
of legend.

Speaker 5 (57:06):
Anyway, I need more I can tell them.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Yeah, I'm not I mean I think it was that
you have to be their moment.

Speaker 4 (57:16):
Okay. Yeah, well, sadly there was karaoke, which is my
favorite night of the year, so you know, maybe is
the new one.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
But that was the because there is no karaoke, and
because the night before myself and I had been speaking
to Miranda Judas and we discovered that she had a
talent for opera.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
We started playing the game amongst a.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
Group of like eight people, so the dares got progressively
harder as the night went on, and then it was
my turn to give a dare, and I said to
Miranda that she had to sing opera in front of
the whole tent, and she did and it was amazing.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
Yeah, so poetry for us next year, we're gonna.

Speaker 4 (58:03):
Start it.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Now take me that long, okay, so we are Our
time is basically app So what I'd like to do, Lizzie,
is for you to let everyone know where they can
find you on social media, where they can buy your
latest books, and generally where they can stalk you in
the nice kind of way.

Speaker 4 (58:24):
You can stalk me. I'm more often than not found
on Instagram at buy Lizzie barber By is in by
the author not be uy by the book, but you
should also do that. And I am occasionally on TikTok.
I am not really on X anymore, but I love
talking to authors and readers and writers, so find me there.

(58:46):
You can buy my book b mine on probably Amazon
is the easiest, or on the Deturo website, I'm sure
is my pubsher and they have a really great bookshop.
And obviously you know, into your mind, et cetera, or
if you're in India, has been published in India, so
you can find.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
The wow that's I know Chris is laughing at Ross's
comment there and come, yeah, it's nice. How is the
kind of response to your book being published in India?
How has that been?

Speaker 4 (59:23):
Oh it's been lovely. I mean I've never had a
book published in India and they've all been it's been
so lovely. I mean, the publishers are fantastic. Again, they're
really Indie. They sent out these kind of amazing little
authors packs with their tote bag, and I think that
their logo is a chai cup, and so they sent
chai cup scented candles with the book, which was great.

(59:45):
But no, it's one of those things where you're like,
you know, this is a book written in by set
partly in San Francisco. Is it going to resonate? And
I found that the same things have resonated with the
Indian audience, which has been wonderful. And I'm really excited
because I am going to Sri Lanka next easter. We're
stopping over in Mumbai, and so I've told my publishers

(01:00:07):
becausey're based in Mumbai, and I've said, you know, if
I can do any events or meet any readers, I'd
love to do that, because what an amazing opportunity.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
Yeah, that would be fantastic. Yeah, brilliant. Well, thank you
so much everybody for your comments, including Ross's recent poem
which I worked out. That's what it was. If you
want to read the poem, me, you're not reading it,
Oh yes, you can read it on the chat if

(01:00:35):
you watch it. Yes. So Lizzie, thank you so much,
and thank you everyone for your questions. But yeah, Lizzie,
like I said, everyone, we've had Lizzie's wrote to writing story.
If you want to go check that out, please do so.
And thank you for this journey tonight, because you've been
very honest, very open about your journey. But your doubts
as an author, and that's something we really kind of

(01:00:56):
do cherish on this show because, like Chris said, very important.
It relates to people in the real world that don't
just see the big successes and just the author being
full time and getting the job done. It's it's like
there's a real life in between those stories being published
and created. So thank you so much for being honest
with us. And yeah, always welcome on the show. So

(01:01:16):
thank you very much.

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
Thank you guys for having me. I will see you
in Harraga, if not before more uncomfortable questions.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
I love the fact that we the uncomfortable questions people.

Speaker 5 (01:01:27):
Great, thank you guys, Happy Friday, absolutely, stay stay safe everybody,
and oh hang on, quick quick comment there, what an
awesome guests.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
Great to hear from someone who was so authentic and
upfront about experiences and amazing interview and it all began
in a tent and someone said, so yeah, thank you everybody,
please stay safe, have a great weekend, and we'll see
you all very soon. Hie from us.

Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
Thank you guys, Bye to back to

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
Back