Season 3: Episode 8 Raising Different Brains

Listen to us talk about raising different types of brains - the good, the bad, and the ugly...

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome to What's Happening Here. Thisis a podcast for finding the perfect imbalance
of being a parent, a partner, and a person without losing the things
that matter most to you in theprocess. Like you're Sennity, you might
know me as doctor Sarah the BrainGal. I'm a pediatric neuros psychologist and
mom of two who translates brain scienceto everyday life. I see all kids,
really all people like little brains.You probably don't know me. I'm

(00:24):
Kevin, Sarah's partner in crime,Bourbon Afcinado, discusser of all things,
and father of two. We startedthis podcast because we saw a big gap
between research and practice, especially whenyou have a unique family structure like ours,
and we wanted to share what wehave learned and hopefully what we continue
about navigating our lives through the lensof brain science with a big old helping
of reality. Next day, weknow there are lots of families that look

(00:47):
like ours, we're kind of likeour, or maybe look nothing like ours,
which makes finding a single source ofguidance and advice so hard. But
we're going to try to help you. So join us as we try to
figure out what's happening here. Soyou know what, I'm very nervous about.
Oh what, I am very nervousabout sending somebody out into the world

(01:11):
who has a very difficult time rememberinglike the basics of life. And you
know, Ronan is almost eighteen yearsold, he's finishing high school. He's
deciding what his next step will be, an academic setting of one sort or

(01:33):
another. And I can very muchremember like my own, you know,
my life and where I was andthinking about you know how I was more
focused on the next step than Ithink he is at this point. Why
do you think that is maturity wise? I was a year older than he

(01:56):
is at this point in time,so because I was uh an unmedicated,
uh second grader, and uh They'relike, let's redo that, do that
again, Let's do that one moretime. Yeah, let's do that.
Interesting. We don't hold kids backvery much anymore. That's an older There's
a very rare kid that I am, and very rare, that's true.

(02:20):
One of those white whales the sunburnedon my legs, that tests on half
the legs, Yeah, the onethat was basically funny. So, you
know, I was a year older, and so I think my you know,
my memory of that is a littleskewed, right, Like I was

(02:44):
nineteen when I was graduating high school. He's eighteen, and he's a later
birthday. He's a June birthday laterin the year, so he's a lot
younger than the rest of his peers. Like he has he has friends that
have been eighteen for eight months.Yeah, but I think he's still within
the realm. I mean they're like, I think I turned eighteen the May

(03:05):
of my senior year. Still Ithink so I think he's still Yeah.
Yeah, listen, I know kidsturn eighteen right before they graduated, right,
And it's the thing I was tryingto remember. Memory is not really
dust, right, Yeah, itturns out neither is it for running right,
Well, attention isn't running the story. He doesn't get it in to

(03:25):
remember it right, to get itout. Yes, so very nerrous,
like he's sorry. So you know, like I am here, we are,
you know where I am talking tohim about the future, trying to
get him, you know, focusedon the next steps and the steps he
has to take to get to thatnext step. And he's now more engaged
in that process than he may havebeen six months ago. Right now,

(03:47):
that we're the end of his senioryear, right, And it's a little
bit more as you say, it'sin front of right, because everybody right
now is talking about this thing,right, and I think that's before we
move on like the point that weshould make. And isn't just young right,
Like I hear you in that,but I I and yes, there's
a component of that too. Buthis brain works different. Well, right,

(04:10):
when you have a kid with ADHD, one of like it's like his
strength is his weakness. He's inthe moment miss his ability to just be
like this is so much fun,and you're like, well, yeah,
you've you've known like the other daywhen he showed up to school and he
was going on a field trip rightto the zoo, and he's like,
this is awesome, right, right. He didn't have any anxiety about what

(04:31):
was going to happen. He didn'thave to plan his meal, he didn't
have to think about it. Heshowed up and he was like the only
challenge he had was remembering where hislocker is so he could put his bag
in his chrumbook in it, right, which was probably bigger feet I'm guessing
that he had some help my assumption. Yes, but he so yeah,
like and as I would love tobe the moment like that. I would

(04:54):
love to always every moment being that. And we've seen this even like an
like, we've seen him when hegets upset where it's like he's it is
so hard to watch, it's terrible. Yes, he is so when he's
upset, he's so sad, butit is so quick in a lot of
ways too, like when it's over, he doesn't really remember being that upset,

(05:15):
Like it doesn't feel it in theway that you might, or even
than I might. It's an interestingso it's a strength, but it can
also be Yeah, and there's youknow a funny you know, just as
we get to talking about you know, the ADHD brain. And there's no
clear evidence, piece of evidence thathis brain chemistry is different than you know,

(05:42):
mine or his sister's in that otherthan he drank a monster drink a
few weeks ago, an energy drinkwhich I think an energy drink, and
he had done it before, andhe had told me what happened, and
he came home and I think itwas I think it may have been in
the house, and I was like, whose is this? Because I'm not

(06:02):
drinking it and Ruby is not drinkingit. No, you both would go
the other. And he's like,oh, it's mine. I'm going to
have an I'm going to do anexperiment. And I'm like okay. And
he drank it at it was aroundprobably after nine o'clock on a weekend.
It wasn't like a squint and Iwas like, okay, just because he
is droll a line, so bada line, I don't allow him to

(06:28):
drink a must drink at nine pmand then the old dipe. But in
this case I should because thirty minuteslater he's like, I'm tired. I'm
going to bed. Yes, Andhe's told us about this book because and
this is the most interesting thing tome because of his Sprain chemistry and the
you know, the the caffeine almosthas an opposite effect on his brain and

(06:50):
so he gets tired. And wewere talking about this because I asked him
to. I was like, wasthat with medication or without medication? And
he's like, I'm going to tryit both, right, So that was
without medication by that point. Bythat point, sure, And I feel
like I tried it on and Ithink it doesn't really matter. I think
you know, the response of theto the caffeine is regardless of the of

(07:13):
the medicine. Well, and yousaid, you know, his biology shouldn't
be different than yours and rubies,But I think it's actually, I mean,
his biology's very different than than yoursand rubies, you know, in
the sense that that is the definitionof an ADHD brain, Like it's such
a biological thing for him, andit's very interesting. Well, I don't
think it's so much different than mine, because if I had to guess that
back in second grade in nineteen eightytwo, no two, No three?

(07:41):
Maybe three? I old are youin second grade? The first one?
Oh, I thought you were?Asked me how old was that? No?
I know you were it started?Or when you know? I so
you're what you're seven in second grade? Right, because you're five in kindergarten
six and first, So you're sevenin second grade. So seven, I

(08:05):
would have been eighty three. Okay, we've established this. So when I
was seven, there was no medicationfor attention deficit at brain activity. I'm
sure if there were put that kidon it, because I was probably I
hear you, I hear your trainof thought. But I would say that
holding a child back with ADHD wouldn'tsolve the issues generally speaking, and that

(08:30):
even if it solved the issues forthat particular time period, it would rear
itziglyhead again I hear, and Ithink you know you watch ron Ronan did
great for a very very long timeon his own. He figured it out
until he couldn't anymore, right,and then and then he was on medication.
And I think that that as actuallylike a misnomer with ADHD, that
it isn't like I hear you sayingit is, but you two have very

(08:52):
different ways of thinking of very differentbrain styles in general. Like yes,
of course you're similar just because yourfather and son, but you know,
he he's very ruby, is waymore thinks, way more like you than
I think Ronan does. Although Iunderstand what you're saying, which is that
you had some attention issues. Althoughthat being said, you were still way

(09:15):
better with details and reading things thanme. Like, think about if the
two of us, if we havea contract, I'm gonna be like,
hey, can you read this contract? Because there's no way that that's actually
well read me either you or mymother. We are we going to talk
about your ideation my functional lady,or to call it functionally Well, I
think I mean, I would argueI'm also afflicted with functional ideation. Yeah,

(09:37):
in different ways, right, likeI think the h Well, I
think I'm just older and more matureand more wisdom right, and figured out
how to over how to like controlyour emotions not get kicked out of the
hot scheme how to It's just reallyeasy. It happened one time, It
happened one time. You only gotkicked out of a kid's game one time.

(10:00):
It happened two times at least.Well, yes, yes, different
sports. It's because I used abad word. Well, that happens when
you're it was bullshit mm hmmm,which is bullshit because it's bad word you
were saying, you were saying thecall was not that. He was right,

(10:22):
Yes, so that should count.Taller shouldn't count, even though I
had to watch the next game froma parking lot with binoculars, which run
in reference the other day. Actually, when I told him where saw you
don't feel like you influenced your children, he goes, oh, it was
at that place where we had towatch the game from from the car with
binoculars, And I was like,yes, it was that one. Yes,

(10:45):
well, so he well listen,they're all Franny skills, right like
that, the control of emotion asmuch as the control over cognition and behavior.
Right, So I think Ronan manifestedmore and he thinks really quickly and
and in like three D would bethe way I would describe it, like
everything gets put together very very fast. But he'll hop from thing to thing

(11:05):
to thing to thing, yes,very much. And he will also like
he will. He can't control hisbody either. That I mean that has
always been the clue for me beinghis father and knowing him as well as
you know I do. I canI can tell from a distance, yeah,

(11:26):
whether he has taken his medicine thatday or or he has it or
yeah, or whether it's still inhim or it's gone well, And I
think that's the Franie development part,right, Like so when kids are first
born, we're looking for control factors, right, so you look at can
they roll over? Can they crawl? Can they walk? Right? Those
are all motor controlled, you know. Then the sounds We've talked probably about

(11:50):
this before, but like then soundsthat are just like dad, dad,
dad, dad, duh. That'scontrol over the sounds that you're making then
to start to form words and putsentences together. Control over your thoughts,
right, and even going into likepreschool and kindergarten, we're looking for school
readiness skills, right, So thoseare things like sitting in a chair,

(12:11):
So looking for those school readiness,raising your hands right, like taking your
turn. That's all control skills.And so when you see a kid with
ADHD, even varying forms of it, it's all about controls in different areas.
And yes he has, Like wewent out to dinner the other night
for your birthday, and he cameafter practice and game after game, that's

(12:31):
right, And he shows up andthere are water glasses on the table,
right, metal chopsticks and metalicks Idon't even know, And all of a
sudden, there is now a songthat is being played on the water glasses
with the chopsticks that you know,our twelve year old was totally fine before

(12:52):
that, but is now totally engagedin with what Ronan's doing. Now we
have a rhythm section, right,and I and normally if you're good at
like tuning things out, but turnsout that was one of them, that
was in one of them, andI don't know if it was again just
like timing or money, whatever itwas. But I didn't say anything strongly.

(13:13):
I hinted at them or teased himor something about it, but because
I realized, like some of thisis me. We're in like a cubby
section, Like we're not out inpublic restaurants, So really, there isn't
a big deal with him doing this, but it is like nails on a
chalkboard and that'd be crazy at thesame time, and I think it's just
because he can't stop moving. AndI'll talk about to teachers about this too,
because if there's a kid with ADHDin the class who needs to move,

(13:35):
like we have to work together onthat because it's going to have to
be in one section of the classroomor something, because I want that kid
to be able to move. Butit's so it's just the thing that's very
distracting to me that I'll continually drawmy attention probably in my own ADHD.
So it is it is definitely abiologically interesting thing from him. And then
you add this component of really hetends to do what's in front of him

(14:00):
because that's how his brain works.So you know, when things like you're
like you were saying, you know, we I think after we got in
the car and he started he wasstarting to be more responsible with that.
I was really proud of him.I'm sure you were too, like the
way that he really took ownership overit. But you can still see the
issues, right like when he dropshis sister off but forgets to pick her

(14:22):
up, or he's supposed to takeyou know, our nephew, for lack
of a better way of explaining,a home from a base to baseball from
school, but he forgets to cleanhis uniform, so he decides to come
home clean his uniform, but forgetsthat he's supposed to take Jackson to the
fields. And the problem with thatis that Jackson has no other life,

(14:46):
and he hasn't thought about telling Jacksonand we have to kind of come in
right And I think you and Igo back and forth a lot of times
with of course you want to acceptdifferent brains. You know, we value
it very much. You can tellit black bul story because I think like
it's such a strength in a lotof places. Right. Well, I
have a flagpole in my front doordand it's that I walked out the other

(15:07):
day and there's the flag on theground because the rope snapped and it had
been there for a long time.And so I am looking at this flagpole
trying to think of how I'm goingto get the rope back to the top
because it's now no longer at thetop and this is twenty to fifteen feet
in the air and I don't havea ladder that tall. So I'm just
sitting there thinking and thinking about it. And later on that day I mentioned

(15:31):
it to Rona. Well, evenbefore that, you and I was talking
to you on the phone and I'mlooking across the street and they're getting tree
work done right, and I'm tellingyou about it, and You're like,
I gotta find somebody right with thetruck trot pick the rope up there.
I had it all planned out.He's going to back up to that one
side of the house. And thenyou, oh, and my spatial skills

(15:52):
are worse than Euros. So I'mlike that, that's brilliant. I like,
wow, I would have never thoughtto ask the tree guys. That's
very smart. And I mentioned itto Roundin later on that day or maybe
the next day, and he,without looking outside, without even missing a
beat, he goes Oh, well, you just you just undo the bolt
that holds the pole in the middleof the other two that are anchored in

(16:17):
the ground, and it'll just tipdown and you put it back on that
way mm hm. And I lookedat it, and I'm like, where
did that come from? Right?You haven't looked at the flag bowl in
months? Like when was the lasttime you were outside. He's probably melling
the lawn or something. And itgot his attention and it looked at it
and thought about it, and heknew exactly how to fix it. And

(16:38):
he's witty in that way too,Like you say something to him, he
can whitty back to you, yes, very very fine, that thing in
his brain and get it out reallywell. I'd yes, yes, I
do think that is a father sona treat. But then on the other
hand, right, this is aguy who's got to be able to remember
to get up, remember to ifyou say you're going to take somebody somewhere,

(17:00):
you have to do it. Figureout what the next stime. Just
remember to take the medication that helpshim remember things every day. Right,
And and you think, you know, we've talked about like wanting to create
independent people, and that becomes areally hard thing to do, and referencing
all of the podcasts we've talked aboutthis season, it's like it's uncomfortable when

(17:21):
he's uncomfortable, but the only wayhe really learns and he always has been
this way since I've met him,And this isn't this isn't true for all
kids with ADG, but for himin particular, like if he comes to
it right, like if there's aif there's something that would impact him very
strongly, he figures it out becausehe's smart enough to do that. Oh
yeah, So you know, ifit's like, no, if this happens,

(17:42):
you some consequence that will feel verybad to him will happen, You'll
figure it out. Or if yougive a good timeline with a solid end,
he tends to kind of figure itout right, And that's my biggest
chance. I think we've referenced thisin other podcast episodes where it's like you
have to let them have those consequences, and it's very difficult to let them

(18:04):
have consequences that are going to inthe short term negatively impact them because you
spend all this time trying to notlet negative things happen to them. But
then there comes a time where inorder for them to be human beings,
functional human beings, adults that canhandle their own shit, they have to

(18:30):
have gone through negative consequences. AndI know I did. I know my
parents made me suffer consequences, andyou know, I know that that spurred
my learning and you know, mademe a better person. But it is
a weird thing to let that happento your kid. Well, And I

(18:51):
think we go back and forth aboutthis a lot because we had fallen the
complete opposite spectrums. Like I've alwayssaid, I might be too extreme on
one and maybe you're too extreme onthe other, you know, Like Julianna
gets up late for school, youknow, multiple days in the row,
and finally I telled her she's goingto have to walk if she's laid again.
And I get in the car,I get like, it's one minute.
You have one minute, forty fiveseconds, thirty seconds. They do

(19:14):
everything I can, and she stilldoesn't come out. And not only do
I make her walk, but Icall school and ask them to give her
attention at the same car. Butlike I'm like, if I'm going to
get make this lesson, we aremaking this lesson. You doubled down I
did well because I again, Idon't have I am all over the place
sometimes and so when I pick atime to make a lesson, it is
going to be a lesson. AndI think my kids kind of know,
like, you can get away withstuff for a little bit, but at

(19:37):
some point, you know, Mom'sgoing to choose to make a lesson.
You don't exactly know when that isbecause she doesn't really know, but don't
tell them that, But at somepoint it's going to make a lesson.
It's going to well, yes,And fun fact, i'd argue that even
if they know it, it stillworks. But I think one of the
things you and I go back andforth about is, okay, so if
the kids don't get up right,or they don't take a kid one time,

(20:02):
don't pick up a kid one time, but then they don't do it
a second time, but then there'sa third time. You know, you
and I will go back and forth, skil. I'll say what did you
do? And you'll say, doyou know what? You usually say No.
We talked about it. We hada conversation about I'm like, oh,
okay, right, and it's eithera calm conversation or it's not a
calm conversation, right, and thenI'll say, okay, well, but

(20:25):
with his brain in particular, andmost kids, but him in particular,
like if he doesn't feel it,he will feel really bad. He will
say to you like, oh,you're so right, I feel terrible,
Like he feels bad. It's notthat he doesn't know that it impacted somebody
else. Oh. The last onewas when he forgot to go to the
hairdresser happens to be a good friend, right, yes, And you know,

(20:48):
so that's frustrating because you take moneyaway from from any hairdresser plus very
close friends. So now and soit's the tip end of this and they
just don't show, right. Sothat's the third one, right, So
it's three in a row. Andso now it becomes okay, what do
you do? I think you endedup making pay for the hairdresser, which
I think is a good stylist hairstyleHAIRSID go by hairstylists, which they really

(21:11):
are, which is another skill thatI don't have, by the way,
would be like any kind of makeuphair like I watched Jewels do it.
I watch the people who knew this, because oh my god, there's so
much better. I wanted to bea hairdresser and a street sweeper when I
was growing out. For a while, I wanted to be a TrackMan.
I would have been terrible with thosetwo. I wanted to write on the
back. Could you imagine me tryingto clean right down first out during school

(21:36):
trouble. I'd be cleaning the streetright behind you, like Rammond into the
little bumper cards. I'd have tobecause I don't think I could do it.
I'd see something in there would bethere there right go yes. So
I think my version of that wouldhave been you now need to go drive

(21:56):
that money to her. Now givethat to her and make another appointment and
then show up to it, becauseI would have wanted to feel feel that
consequence in the moment. There's acouple issues with that, you know.
The first is it takes energy toparent like that, right, And I
mean that in like sometimes I wentto work the other day and I was
coming, I'm like, she mademe parent this morning, like she It's

(22:18):
so it's another thing to do.It's very difficult. So I don't say
that lightly, like it's hard tohave to do it, which is why
I pick and choose my moments attimes, you know, and it gets
in the middle of everything else you'retrying to juggle, right, And I
chose the tact of no, Iam not going to make another appointment for
you. Yes, here's the number. If you want to make it,

(22:40):
you figure it out and you payfor it. Any paper. And he
did both and tipped it right.Any tip, remember he told me he
did. Okay, I don't know, Mandy, if you're listening to and
you might be in actually touching andhe does listen. Hey man, Yeah,
and I but I think that thisis yes, that's true. And
a woman, which I appreciate verymuch because you have a lot of female

(23:03):
traits in you. I attribute toyour friendships with well women. Mandy was
my best friend for a very longtime, and she had two sisters and
a mom who was like my secondmother, who you know. Turns out
it's very influential when there's a littleboy hanging out with all women all day
long. Yeah, well your family, you know, two sisters. I

(23:26):
mean, it's like you were surroundedby women. I appreciate that women in
your life. Thank you. Yeah, And I think that that's the tough
thing. Back to parenting. Ithink it's again, let's focus. I
think it's the tough thing. Ionce commented about a squirrel on a call
and the woman who works for mejust started cracking and I didn't even realize
I did it. She's like,that's the classic example. Yeah, and

(23:48):
I did it well. I meanthe classic example with Ronan is he's a
lab yes, but we're playing I'llgo a blood. He will totally and
and again stry. It's what makeshim phenomenal with any age kid Like he
is the oldest and he gets alonggreat with Carter as the youngest, even
when their ages were even you know, younger, where it was even more

(24:11):
now they collect connect over like videogame stuff. Even before that he was
able to do that three D printers, you know, it's and watch them
grow they kind of which there's oneon the printer was on all day,
so somebody forgot to unplug it.But anyway, it is interesting and it's
particularly you know when I think whenyou when you look at an ADHD brain

(24:32):
versus all the other kinds of brainswe've been talking about, you know,
like that amy g response of feelingsomething in the moment is really important because
they almost need a little bit moreof it. But it's also very hard
to do because most kids with ADHGare typically cool thinkers and creative people,
and you know they've got a lotof pluses going for them, and you
know that, and you know lifecan be hard for them anyway, so

(24:55):
to add on top feels bad.But I worry. We constantly talk about
that balance so that we can makesure that I save you all the time.
It's our job to make sure heknows how to get up on time,
and how to follow through with whathe wants and how to find his
path in life. And if wedon't teach him that, and we are
so worried about making him feel bador about adding to his load that we

(25:18):
don't do that, we're in trouble. But at the same time, you
know that's that's our fault and arewe're responsible for that. But at the
same time, I want to behappy and to love what he's doing,
and I'm jealous of the world thathe sits in most of the times a
happy place. Tough thing. It'sa tough thing, and I think that
people who have kids with ADHD strugglewith this. I think people who have

(25:41):
kids on the spectrum struggle with this, or even just different brains, you
know, people kids who think alittle differently, or who struggle a little
to get the ways of the socialworld and things like that. It could
be tough, and gosh, thisparenting thing is it's tough. It is
easy, and you know, havingyou know, different brains in our family

(26:06):
is it makes it difficult. Butit's also it makes a lot of fun,
makes it very interesting as challenging asit is, you know. And
I think we just need to makethem, help them be self aware and
and to be able to identify theirstrengths and their weaknesses and work on that

(26:27):
as like a family team exactly,and work together to help them out.
And you know, right now they'rein that phase of teenage ridiculing each other
as a way of bonding, youknow. And I know how it works
as much as it is as annow as an outsider, because I'm not

(26:47):
a teenager anymore physically age physically OhI mean like, actually we just said
different, okay, whatever, soyou know, I mean it's true,
but still hurts. I think youhave great shoulders. You talk about that

(27:07):
later. I don't know, weneed to talk trying to talk, okay,
I'll just try to do anyway.Hey, here's the ADACS Squirrel.
Well, thanks for joining us forthis episode of What's Happening Here. Don't
forget to subscribe to our YouTube pageor you can follow me on Instagram at
Doctor Sarah l Allen and keV showsup all out there too. Be sure

(27:30):
to tell a friend what you likedabout this episode and share it with them.
After all, we're all in thistogether, just trying to figure out
what's happening here.