🎤 PODCAST: Thinking Mistakes - How to deal with any overpowering lousy thoughts you might have - a short interview with Dr. Jeff Riggenbach
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#counseling #lousy_thoughts #emotions #mental_health #self_help #objectivism #stress #therapy #psychology #happiness
Dr. Kenner's public service broadcast is in its 27th year.
Free Relationship Advice
Download chapter one of Dr. Kenner’s romance guidebook for free at https://www.drkenner.com
• This episode is at https://bit.ly/4v9wwlV
• Hundreds of podcasts sorted by topic https://bit.ly/3qh6BX7
✦ Free Relationship Advice ~ download chapter one of Dr. Kenner’s romance guidebook for free at https://www.drkenner.com
• Listen to caller's personal dramas four times each week
#counseling #lousy_thoughts #emotions #mental_health #self_help #objectivism #stress #therapy #psychology #happiness
Dr. Kenner's public service broadcast is in its 27th year.
Free Relationship Advice
Download chapter one of Dr. Kenner’s romance guidebook for free at https://www.drkenner.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The Selfish Pets or Romance.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Download chapter one for free at doctor Kenner dot com
and at Amazon dot com. This is Meryl.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
No, that's unacceptable. Listen, tell Warren. If we don't ship
my Tuesday, we won't be in the stores my Mother's Day.
And that's unacceptable. So don't give me any expectes and
do it.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Dot your shit happen, get it done.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Oh honey, you broke your phone. It's okay, I carry extras.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Can you imagine having that girl as your daughter, or
as your girlfriend, or as your coworker or boss. We
all have people in our lives who have anger management problems,
or maybe they're depressed, or maybe they're anxious, or maybe
they just have no direction in life and they want
some guidance and they don't feel like they can do
(00:50):
it on their own. Well, they can turn to a
cognitive therapist. Cognitive therapy is a nominal therapy that allows
you to learn how to think, learn how to make
sure that your thoughts connect with reality so that you
can guide your life better and you're not stuck with
a lot of stinking thinking. And with me today to
(01:13):
discuss cognitive therapy and stinking thinking is doctor Jeff Rigenbach.
He's a cognitive therapist in the state of Oklahoma, practicing
at Laureate Psychiatric Clinic and Hospital, and he has completed
training with the Beck Institute of Cognitive Therapy and is
certified with the Academy of Cognitive Therapy. Welcome to the show,
Jeff hi.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Owen Hi.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
If let's just say that somebody comes to you and
they just are swimming in They're just swimming with all
these negative thoughts. You know, I'll never get anywhere. Nobody
likes me. What am I going to do? There's nothing
much I can do. Tell me a little bit about
how their thinking is off base many times, and what
(01:58):
cognitive is a storys are.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Sure, and actually cognitive therapy is probably a little bit
different than a lot of the other therapies out there
in several ways, but in one way in the sense
that there's a very high educational component. So a lot
of people that come to cognitive therapy say they feel like,
rather than being in a group, they're more like going
to class. And so before we can actually break down
(02:23):
exactly what's going on with each person, we will do
a lot of education. I've actually had patients say, boy,
you talk more than any therapist I've ever known before,
and that is true. In the beginning. There is a
lot of teaching that's necessary.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
You're teaching thinking skills.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
You are teaching thinking skills, and.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
You're teaching them how to read their own minds.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
That's right. You use the phrase stinking thinking, and I
think that's a phrase that a lot of our patients use.
And the term cognitive distortions is really just a term
to define very specific types of stink and thinking. And
there are some pretty specific types of thinking that lead
to some pretty specific feelings.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Yeah, such as should statements. I should do this, I
have to do this, and I should always be a success,
you know, I always have to get straight A's.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
No, absolutely. Should statements are are a really really big
one that a lot of people struggle with. That's when
we say we should or we have to, or we
ought to or we must or we need to. Those
are kind of shoulds in disguise. Actually, there's two types
of should statements. One type is when we can should ourselves,
and when we do that, we're almost always feel guilty.
(03:38):
So if you're feeling guilty, there's probably a should of
self under there.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Okay, can you give me an example.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah. Sure. It can be a small thing, or it
can be a deeper, more intense thing. I mean, I
shouldn't have been late for that meeting, or I shouldn't have,
you know, said what I said to my spouse that
was really mean to I should have never had that
abortion twenty years ago, or I should never married this person,
or or those sorts of shoulds always lead to guild
or regret.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
And sometimes it's reality based, and sometimes I know, in
the case of abortion, it's they need to go back
and rethink things.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Sometimes we can say that we shouldn't have done the
things that we did, but the reality is that we
did do them, and how do we move on from there?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Yeah? Okay, So if.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
We would identify things that, according to our moral value system,
we really would say we're wrong, then it might be
a matter of forgiving ourselves and not beating ourselves up over.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Time, or making amends. If you hurt somebody, if you
were very cruel to a co worker, you need to
make amends.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Absolutely those kinds of things, Or if you really didn't
do anything wrong.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Hey, I got to interrupt this because we've got to
pay some bills thirty seconds.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
That's it a very quick adv and then Ellen will
be back.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Romance. Oh, I wish guys knew more about what we
want from a relationship. Boy, I wish I knew more
about what I want? Where's that ad? I saw?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Ah?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Here? It is The Selfish Path to Romance, a serious
romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at selfish romance
dot com and buy it at Amazon dot com. Hmm,
the Selfish Path to Romance. That is interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Or if you really didn't do anything wrong, then it's
a way of learning to kind of reshape how you
think about that and recognizing that you know what was
your responsibility and what wasn't irresponsible, and.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
To be able to let go of the honor and guilt.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Absolutely, yes, I like.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
That, And actually I got that from my favorite author,
iin Rand. Yeah. What about another cognitive distortion such as
what if I say I know exactly what you're thinking
about me now, Jeff, I know it, and I know
it's not good.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Well, as a distortion we call mind reading. Mind reading
and for telling and another related one that we call
magnification kind of go together. So mind reading is when
you assume you know what someone else is thinking. Fortune
telling is predicting what you think is going to happen.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
I know that nothing good is going to come of this,
so why bother applying for this job? Would that be
an example of the fortune teller.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
That would be an example of that of the fortune.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
So you'll never you have a messy room, You'll never
amount to anything you tell your kid.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
That's right. Both of those would be example of the
mind reading or the fortune telling type of statement. You know,
in terms of applying for the job. If we predict
that we're never going to get it, that's the fortune
telling part. And if we predict all these reasons why
they're not going to hire me because I'm overweight or
I've got a gap on my resume or for whatever reason,
that's the mind reading part. And then some people, especially
(06:50):
that struggle with anxiety, really take it to another level
and go to the point that not only am I
not going to get this job, but I'm not going
to get any job, and I'm going to end up
underneath a bridge leaving in a cardboard box, right right thing.
And those are certainly the kind of distortions that lead
doing there.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
And so cognitive therapy helps people undistort them, take out
the distortion and see things accurately, and teaches them the
skills to look for evidence on their own, so eventually
they don't need a cognitive therapist.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Absolutely. That is one of the number one beliefs of
cognitive therapy is that we want to teach patients the
skills that they need to be able to face life
circumstances on their own. And actually research is starting to
substantiate this one that people that do cognitive therapy are
much less prone to relapse into their old feelings of
(07:40):
guilt or depression.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Or because they have the method to get themselves out
of it, because.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
They have the skills that they need that they can
use the rest of their life.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Right, right, So it's a wonderful gift to yourself to
see a cognitive therapist, And if you're looking for one,
you can go to the Academy of Ctcognitive Therapy dot
org and there's a list of therapists from all over
the world there. Now, quickly, what does an intimacy circle.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Intimacy circles are technically have nothing to do with cognitive
therapy taking themselves, but it's just the way that we
used to talk with patients about relationships and let them
examine their relationships. We use the definition of intimacy of
into me C intimacy. Yeah, very good drive intimacy and
how closely we let people see into us. And it's
(08:27):
just a way to kind of evaluate our relationships and
try to recognize harmful patterns that might be stumbling people up.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
So if there's somebody into me C, if there's somebody
too close to me that I don't want very close,
I can put them in an outer circle. Is that
what you're referring to.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Absolutely. That's one of the things that a lot of
people who do these exercises fined is some people say
my relationships are a complete mass, but some people say,
as the example you just suggested, gee, I pretty much
like how my relationships are. But there's this one person
that I've let into close and so it's a romantic interest.
Maybe it's a mother in law that won't get out
(09:05):
of my business. I mean, whoever it is, is one person,
he's getting in and I'm giving them the power to
ruin my life. And so yeah, helping them come up
with steps to take to move that person out into it.
They don't have the power over their lives that they.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Have that's interesting to an outer ring. I always use
an example like that a little differently, but I did
have the concentric circles. So when you ever talked about that,
I took one of your seminars. It was wonderful to hear.
And when you heard talked about how people use them,
you know, this person's got to go in an outer
ring or this one can come in closer. It was.
It's a wonderful mental tool and your tool for people
(09:40):
to have any toolblock basket. Listen. Thank you so much
for being with me today.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
For more Doctor Kenner podcast, go to dr Kenner dot
com and please listen to this ned. Here's an excerpt
from The Selfish Path to Romance, the Serious Romance guidebook
by clinical psychologist doctor Ellen Kenner and doctor Edwin Locke.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Often money prop a cause by unresolved psychological problems. A
partner may have had a deprived childhood and desperately wants
to make up for it by overspending or overworking. Such
individuals may work one hundred hours a week in order
to become rich, without enjoying the work or having time
for their loved ones. Others may use money to show
(10:22):
off as a way of gaining a false sense of
self esteem. Ironically, the joke is on the big spenders.
Self esteem comes from how one uses one's mind, not
from any given amount of wealth, and not from showing off.
Earning a good living by productively doing something one loves.
(10:42):
Bill's genuine self esteem.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
You can download chapter one for free by going to
doctor Kenner dot com, and you can buy the book
at Amazon dot com.
The Selfish Pets or Romance.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Download chapter one for free at doctor Kenner dot com
and at Amazon dot com. This is Meryl.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
No, that's unacceptable. Listen, tell Warren. If we don't ship
my Tuesday, we won't be in the stores my Mother's Day.
And that's unacceptable. So don't give me any expectes and
do it.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Dot your shit happen, get it done.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Oh honey, you broke your phone. It's okay, I carry extras.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Can you imagine having that girl as your daughter, or
as your girlfriend, or as your coworker or boss. We
all have people in our lives who have anger management problems,
or maybe they're depressed, or maybe they're anxious, or maybe
they just have no direction in life and they want
some guidance and they don't feel like they can do
(00:50):
it on their own. Well, they can turn to a
cognitive therapist. Cognitive therapy is a nominal therapy that allows
you to learn how to think, learn how to make
sure that your thoughts connect with reality so that you
can guide your life better and you're not stuck with
a lot of stinking thinking. And with me today to
(01:13):
discuss cognitive therapy and stinking thinking is doctor Jeff Rigenbach.
He's a cognitive therapist in the state of Oklahoma, practicing
at Laureate Psychiatric Clinic and Hospital, and he has completed
training with the Beck Institute of Cognitive Therapy and is
certified with the Academy of Cognitive Therapy. Welcome to the show,
Jeff hi.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Owen Hi.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
If let's just say that somebody comes to you and
they just are swimming in They're just swimming with all
these negative thoughts. You know, I'll never get anywhere. Nobody
likes me. What am I going to do? There's nothing
much I can do. Tell me a little bit about
how their thinking is off base many times, and what
(01:58):
cognitive is a storys are.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Sure, and actually cognitive therapy is probably a little bit
different than a lot of the other therapies out there
in several ways, but in one way in the sense
that there's a very high educational component. So a lot
of people that come to cognitive therapy say they feel like,
rather than being in a group, they're more like going
to class. And so before we can actually break down
(02:23):
exactly what's going on with each person, we will do
a lot of education. I've actually had patients say, boy,
you talk more than any therapist I've ever known before,
and that is true. In the beginning. There is a
lot of teaching that's necessary.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
You're teaching thinking skills.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
You are teaching thinking skills, and.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
You're teaching them how to read their own minds.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
That's right. You use the phrase stinking thinking, and I
think that's a phrase that a lot of our patients use.
And the term cognitive distortions is really just a term
to define very specific types of stink and thinking. And
there are some pretty specific types of thinking that lead
to some pretty specific feelings.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Yeah, such as should statements. I should do this, I
have to do this, and I should always be a success,
you know, I always have to get straight A's.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
No, absolutely. Should statements are are a really really big
one that a lot of people struggle with. That's when
we say we should or we have to, or we
ought to or we must or we need to. Those
are kind of shoulds in disguise. Actually, there's two types
of should statements. One type is when we can should ourselves,
and when we do that, we're almost always feel guilty.
(03:38):
So if you're feeling guilty, there's probably a should of
self under there.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Okay, can you give me an example.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah. Sure. It can be a small thing, or it
can be a deeper, more intense thing. I mean, I
shouldn't have been late for that meeting, or I shouldn't have,
you know, said what I said to my spouse that
was really mean to I should have never had that
abortion twenty years ago, or I should never married this person,
or or those sorts of shoulds always lead to guild
or regret.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
And sometimes it's reality based, and sometimes I know, in
the case of abortion, it's they need to go back
and rethink things.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Sometimes we can say that we shouldn't have done the
things that we did, but the reality is that we
did do them, and how do we move on from there?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Yeah? Okay, So if.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
We would identify things that, according to our moral value system,
we really would say we're wrong, then it might be
a matter of forgiving ourselves and not beating ourselves up over.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Time, or making amends. If you hurt somebody, if you
were very cruel to a co worker, you need to
make amends.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Absolutely those kinds of things, Or if you really didn't
do anything wrong.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Hey, I got to interrupt this because we've got to
pay some bills thirty seconds.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
That's it a very quick adv and then Ellen will
be back.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Romance. Oh, I wish guys knew more about what we
want from a relationship. Boy, I wish I knew more
about what I want? Where's that ad? I saw?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Ah?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Here? It is The Selfish Path to Romance, a serious
romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at selfish romance
dot com and buy it at Amazon dot com. Hmm,
the Selfish Path to Romance. That is interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Or if you really didn't do anything wrong, then it's
a way of learning to kind of reshape how you
think about that and recognizing that you know what was
your responsibility and what wasn't irresponsible, and.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
To be able to let go of the honor and guilt.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Absolutely, yes, I like.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
That, And actually I got that from my favorite author,
iin Rand. Yeah. What about another cognitive distortion such as
what if I say I know exactly what you're thinking
about me now, Jeff, I know it, and I know
it's not good.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Well, as a distortion we call mind reading. Mind reading
and for telling and another related one that we call
magnification kind of go together. So mind reading is when
you assume you know what someone else is thinking. Fortune
telling is predicting what you think is going to happen.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
I know that nothing good is going to come of this,
so why bother applying for this job? Would that be
an example of the fortune teller.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
That would be an example of that of the fortune.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
So you'll never you have a messy room, You'll never
amount to anything you tell your kid.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
That's right. Both of those would be example of the
mind reading or the fortune telling type of statement. You know,
in terms of applying for the job. If we predict
that we're never going to get it, that's the fortune
telling part. And if we predict all these reasons why
they're not going to hire me because I'm overweight or
I've got a gap on my resume or for whatever reason,
that's the mind reading part. And then some people, especially
(06:50):
that struggle with anxiety, really take it to another level
and go to the point that not only am I
not going to get this job, but I'm not going
to get any job, and I'm going to end up
underneath a bridge leaving in a cardboard box, right right thing.
And those are certainly the kind of distortions that lead
doing there.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
And so cognitive therapy helps people undistort them, take out
the distortion and see things accurately, and teaches them the
skills to look for evidence on their own, so eventually
they don't need a cognitive therapist.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Absolutely. That is one of the number one beliefs of
cognitive therapy is that we want to teach patients the
skills that they need to be able to face life
circumstances on their own. And actually research is starting to
substantiate this one that people that do cognitive therapy are
much less prone to relapse into their old feelings of
(07:40):
guilt or depression.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Or because they have the method to get themselves out
of it, because.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
They have the skills that they need that they can
use the rest of their life.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Right, right, So it's a wonderful gift to yourself to
see a cognitive therapist, And if you're looking for one,
you can go to the Academy of Ctcognitive Therapy dot
org and there's a list of therapists from all over
the world there. Now, quickly, what does an intimacy circle.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Intimacy circles are technically have nothing to do with cognitive
therapy taking themselves, but it's just the way that we
used to talk with patients about relationships and let them
examine their relationships. We use the definition of intimacy of
into me C intimacy. Yeah, very good drive intimacy and
how closely we let people see into us. And it's
(08:27):
just a way to kind of evaluate our relationships and
try to recognize harmful patterns that might be stumbling people up.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
So if there's somebody into me C, if there's somebody
too close to me that I don't want very close,
I can put them in an outer circle. Is that
what you're referring to.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Absolutely. That's one of the things that a lot of
people who do these exercises fined is some people say
my relationships are a complete mass, but some people say,
as the example you just suggested, gee, I pretty much
like how my relationships are. But there's this one person
that I've let into close and so it's a romantic interest.
Maybe it's a mother in law that won't get out
(09:05):
of my business. I mean, whoever it is, is one person,
he's getting in and I'm giving them the power to
ruin my life. And so yeah, helping them come up
with steps to take to move that person out into it.
They don't have the power over their lives that they.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Have that's interesting to an outer ring. I always use
an example like that a little differently, but I did
have the concentric circles. So when you ever talked about that,
I took one of your seminars. It was wonderful to hear.
And when you heard talked about how people use them,
you know, this person's got to go in an outer
ring or this one can come in closer. It was.
It's a wonderful mental tool and your tool for people
(09:40):
to have any toolblock basket. Listen. Thank you so much
for being with me today.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
For more Doctor Kenner podcast, go to dr Kenner dot
com and please listen to this ned. Here's an excerpt
from The Selfish Path to Romance, the Serious Romance guidebook
by clinical psychologist doctor Ellen Kenner and doctor Edwin Locke.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Often money prop a cause by unresolved psychological problems. A
partner may have had a deprived childhood and desperately wants
to make up for it by overspending or overworking. Such
individuals may work one hundred hours a week in order
to become rich, without enjoying the work or having time
for their loved ones. Others may use money to show
(10:22):
off as a way of gaining a false sense of
self esteem. Ironically, the joke is on the big spenders.
Self esteem comes from how one uses one's mind, not
from any given amount of wealth, and not from showing off.
Earning a good living by productively doing something one loves.
(10:42):
Bill's genuine self esteem.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
You can download chapter one for free by going to
doctor Kenner dot com, and you can buy the book
at Amazon dot com.
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