February 10, 2026 • 53 mins
Chances are high that there is someone, a man or a woman, who portrays the signs of a narcissist. What are they, how can they affect your well-being, and how do you get rid of them? Our special guest, Karen Conde is a prominent entrepreneur and the CEO of Conde Group Inc., a leading technical recruitment firm based in San Diego. She is also a public speaker and advocate for narcissistic abuse awareness through her platform, R.I.S.E With Karen. She has quite a story to tell, and her mission is to help others avoid what she went through. This is eye-opening and intense...but if it helps one person leave this kind of relationship, it's worth having her on.
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SUBSCRIBE to our YouTube Channel, FOLLOW us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok, SHARE, LIKE, and by all means COMMENT. We love your feedback. Thanks for being part of the Laura Cain After Dark family. Love your podcast!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Lara Kane After Dark with Eric remembers a podcast you'll
dig if you like a genuine and laft so Biglar's
a love of ballunatic with above so brill The stories
are crazy, the real deal.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Eric's the talent.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
The people with says he's kind, hell Leary gets some
kind of crass.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Claire runs the.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Show super plaint nerd always in the note but guarantee
to make you laugh.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Plus sure we're late.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Uncle, your seat belts and don't be late.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Here we go, get buddy, It'll be great.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Hey, what is it all?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
You know what I hear? Hey, I see a phone up.
Speaker 5 (00:39):
I just heard that scream on ninety eight fiance.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I'm like, oh, well, yes, by the way, I'm on
right now. Maybe I don't know if my episode airs anyway. Well,
first of all, this is Laura Kane after Dark. Hello,
I'm Laura Kane. You are yes, Eric Grammer, my co host,
longtime co host of six years, plus Claire producer Claire
behind the Big. And then we have Karen Condy. She
(01:07):
is on because she's going to talk to us about narcissists.
She has an incredible story and we brought her on
because she is on a mission to help others so
they don't end up in a place where you were
in pain, in mistrust.
Speaker 6 (01:28):
And just brokenness.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
It's just wait, and I'm sure you have one in
your life. I know we have one. You have one.
You have a couple. I have a couple. And they're
not all men. In fact, two of mine are are women.
But we're going to get into that and in just
a little bit when we thought we'd start with her
(01:52):
on the couch just so we can all be comfy
and just say hi. But first we need to talk
about the Old Globe Theater because you know what kicked
off this weekend head a gambler.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
And we are going on Friday.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
We're going on Friday the thirteenth as a podcast family
and this already is getting outstanding reviews. You called me
to tell me about your friend. What do you say?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
That was fantastic?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Okay, somebody it's this is opening weekend, opening on the seventh,
that goes through March eighth. It's the first show of
the Old Globes twenty twenty six season. Yes, and this
is a show starring Katie Holmes. I know, right, wow,
And all we hear from just everybody involved in the production,
(02:44):
from Eric's friend who's already seen it, and just from
Barry Edelstein, who is the artistic director who's worked with
her before that she is just out standing in this role.
So this is the first show of the season. We
have a lot of other shows to look forward to.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
Why so heada Gambler kicks it off. Bartleb is next,
then Fences, Alien Girls, Kim's Convenience, The Ombres, Measure for Measure,
north By Northwest, Sarah No Much Ado About Nothing Begin Again,
which features the music by the lead singer of Trains.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Then that's a musical. It's going to be incredible.
Speaker 5 (03:26):
Yeah, it's going to be really good. And then Top
Dog Underdog rounds it out.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
The great thing about the Old Globe Theater is you
can pick and choose and pick your own package. So
if you want to get season tickets, it doesn't mean
you have to get season tickets to every single show.
You can pick four if you want to, or you
could pick this one and you can join us on
Friday night and hang out or whatever, or go on
(03:50):
a night when you can go.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
So the number is six one nine two three, four five,
six two three. You can also do it online at
Theoldglobe dot org and just put in LCAD and it'll
wave your handling fees.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yes, that's our little special code LCAD for Laura Kane
after dark, but it makes it easier LCAD, your handling
fees are waived. We would love to see you there.
The Old Globe a gem in Bulboa Park or I
spent most of the day today talking to people. Oh,
this will about various things, all about parking. No, we're
(04:25):
not going to worry about.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
That with the OT wait to hear about this.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
This is just people who actually work and volunteer in
Buboll Park on the regular. And what are they doing,
Like where do they have to park in order to
volunteer their time freely? Do they have to pay? Things
are changing, It's chaotic. I'll tell you about my my
experience in just a minute. But there's something else I'm
(04:49):
going to tell you about, something very cool coming up.
It's Ensan Clemented. But have you been to San Clementy?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
No? Not at all?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Well, yeah, okay, that town is special. I used to
spend my son there with my best friend Stacy, and
we would go there when we were I don't know
like ten eleven twelve in the summer for two weeks
and we stayed in a condo and it was right
across the train tracks, and the beach was right there
and the pier is right there. It just has such
(05:16):
special memories. But what's going on is the ash Wednesday
Open golf tournament and it happens on ash Wednesday, which
is the eighteenth of February, and it's an open day.
It's golf. But if you don't want a golf, you
just want to hang out, catch the beach, vibes, vibes,
the beautiful air, the sun. All these events that are
(05:39):
having food, free food by the way, booze. You do
have to pay for that. But there's going to be
a comedian, there's gonna be entertainment, there's to be lots
of golf, a relaxing day by the ocean, and it is.
If you want to get tickets, you go to event
bright dot com and then just search for the San
(06:01):
Clementy ash Wednesday Open and tickets range from seventy five
dollars if you want to play all the way up
to lots if you want to be like fancy and
play with a fancy group of people. If you don't
want a golf like I said, you can show up.
It's free and it's just going to be a great dancing.
(06:21):
There's dancing. I know how much you love that lunch.
It's at the Shore Cliffs golf Course. If you want
more information, just go ahead and email me at Laura
caane Ad at gmail and I will give you all
the details. But that's something fun to look forward to
ash Wednesday, just spending time on the ocean, either golfing
(06:44):
or just hanging out with golfers. Yeah, you know, so
there's that, like you. Karen told me earlier that she
needs water because her saliva glands like dry up. I know,
reach over girl right now, same with me.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
So Karen, I like to give Laura bad type about it.
I'll give you a bad type about it. But this
is the best part with Laura's mouth gets dry, her.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Teeth and then I can't words.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Oh I'm gonna have a field day to night.
Speaker 6 (07:19):
It's gonna be two of us doing that now, Okay, yeah, okay, right.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
There, Okay, I need to keep you ladies hydrated.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
We have Karen Condy on the show because she's going
to help you. She has been through something extremely traumatic,
and she has identified this person and if you look
it up, textbook narcissist, and what she has done is
taking that has taken this awful thing that just about
(07:50):
broke you, and you are turning it into not only
speaking engagements, but a way for men and men to
voice their concerns, to learn what to spot a narcissist,
what are the signs, why you should how to handle
them if you still want them in your life? Why
(08:11):
would you.
Speaker 6 (08:11):
Want them in your life?
Speaker 4 (08:12):
I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
To talk. So Rise with Karen is a platform based
on healing, faith and finding your voice after a narcissistic
encounter that has left you feeling like you're less than.
You are not less than, they're less then. Nobody is
less than, nobody is less than. So you have a
(08:37):
TED talk coming up.
Speaker 6 (08:39):
I do the TED talk coming up in Des Moines, Iowa,
at the end of April, and we're going to talk
about narcissism and what to look for and how to
avoid them, but the characteristics and how to get out
and how to get self love back, how to start
valuing yourself again. Because you are devalued, your silenced, you
(09:00):
are made to feel like you are worthless in these relationships,
whether they're in a marriage, intimate relationship, or even in
the workplace or as we kind of talked about friends, friends,
I've had to remove my some friends out of my life,
girlfriends that were toxic, that were narcissists.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I never thought of them being narcissists. I always thought
about them just being toxic. But looking back, why don't
you define what is a narcissist?
Speaker 6 (09:31):
Well, that is a very broad that's a word that
carries a very broad meaning because narcissism is there's different
levels of narcissism. It's on a scale. Okay, and look
at we're all we all have some sort of ego, right,
We're all human, so we have some level of egoism
(09:52):
in each one of us. But as you go up
that scale, it goes to narcissism, covert, malignantopathic, psychopathic. So
when you go up that range is when it gets
very dangerous, and when it is very dangerous now typically
and look at it. I feel like I have my
PhD in narcissism because of what I experienced, and I
(10:15):
made it my mission after I healed and went through
it to really understand more about it. Because I wanted
to understand why I was attracted to this type of
a person.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Why don't you start with your story, start at the beginning,
who you met, what happened, and then we'll go from there.
Speaker 6 (10:37):
Okay, So it was about three years ago and I
was single. I had been single for about fifteen years.
I was married for fifteen years, and I was just
living my life and I was building a company. I
had great friends, I was dating on and off, but
never really thought, especially at this point in my life,
(10:57):
in this age in my life, that I would ever
get married again, or if I that I ever wanted
to be married again. So I had put I met
this person on Facebook, so he had slipped into slipped
into my DMS or whatever, because he made a comment
on a post that I have posted, and it was
very nice what he had said.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
It was very sweet.
Speaker 6 (11:20):
So of course, I, you know, I try to respond
back to people that I don't know that are just
that said something very nice and sweet, and I just
said thank you. Well, then he started texting back and
just telling me all about himself and his kids and
what a great dad he was, and I thought, okay,
that's a lot, this is a lot of information. We're
just kind of texting each other here, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Not a texter like you never even met him, No,
I never.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
Met him yet. And so I finally, because I to
be honest with you, I was, I was at work
and I didn't have time to text like he obviously did.
And I said, you know what, like I would do
with a lot of people. I'm sorry to say, it's like,
you know, let's just grab coffee sometime, just to kind
of put him off, right, he came right back and said, well,
let's skip coffee and get a glass of wine. And
(12:06):
there is something in me, you guys that I knew,
just don't that's that's kind of raising it to a
whole nother level. I've never met this person.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
In your gut, you already knew.
Speaker 6 (12:15):
And I didn't listen. Didn't listen to my gut. And
so I said, okay, all right. So this was like
on a Tuesday, I met him on a Friday. Well,
what started out as a glass of wine turned into
dinner and a five hour conversation. And I remember the
next day, I went to a baby shower with some girlfriends,
(12:36):
and you know, daughters of girlfriends were too old for
the babies now, but daughters of girlfriends.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
And I went, but there you go.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
I know, I don't want people to think that we
won't anyway, that I said too, I said to my friends,
I said, wow, that was really interesting. I met somebody
last night and it was surprising.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
He was very charge.
Speaker 6 (13:00):
They're very charming, they're very charismatic. Yeah he will, of course,
I okay, cute anyway, So then he asked me out
the next day and I went, and then all of
a sudden, I found myself in a relationship with him,
and the love bombing started happening right away, you guys,
and that is the first red flag that you really
(13:23):
need to be aware of in narcissistic people. They will
bring you into their into their web, I call it.
They bring into their web by doing what by love bombing,
by telling you really on the first date, second date,
within a week, that you're where have they? Where have
you been?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
All their lives?
Speaker 6 (13:41):
I think I'm falling in love with you. Hear all
the things a woman wants to hear and a man
wants to hear. But it's it's a huge red flag
because real love is steady. It's a steady burn narcissistic
love is quick because they want to get you in
(14:03):
their web as soon as possible. So he was like,
literally the second day, he was sending me texts and reels.
You know, there's little memes where there's music, and it's like,
you are the love of my life. I think you're
so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Oh.
Speaker 6 (14:18):
I was waking up in the morning at five am
and I already had at least ten in my phone. Wow,
at least ten of in my phone. And I remember
thinking this is weird, But there was also a part
of me that was like, oh god, this is so cool.
Its point so it's so you know, it just continued, continued, continued,
(14:43):
and we dated for nine months, never moved in together,
dated for night. He has kids, I have a son
that lives Beck East with grandkids, and so we never
moved in together. But nine months after we started dating
he proposed. Yeah, so we in January and he proposed
in December and shot. I was shocked, and we were
(15:06):
back East for Christmas, and I said, yes, Well, nine.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Months is a good that's a decent amount of time,
you know, like you shouldn't beat yourself becaus it's a
short amount of time. It's a decent amount of time.
Speaker 6 (15:17):
Yeah, it is a decent amount of time, especially when
your runway ahead of you is a lot shorter than
the runway behind you. Yeah, it's like you don't have
the time to stay for two years, three years, whatever.
And so we got married, he proposed, But we got
married seven months later. Again, we have a shorter runway
ahead of us than we do behind us. So we
(15:41):
had a huge, beautiful wedding at the Laberge.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Oh okay, and all of.
Speaker 6 (15:48):
Our children and our grandchildren were in the wedding. I
wore a white dress and a veil. And this is
my second marriage, second marriage.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
It was his fourth.
Speaker 6 (15:57):
But I didn't know that while I was dating. Their
pathological liars is another.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
It's another characteristic.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, you did not know this going into the day before.
Speaker 6 (16:08):
No, I knew it going into the wedding, but I
didn't know it for the majority of our dating. And
then when he said, and I'm like, and then he
explained himself. They're very good at explaining themselves. They're very
good at telling you things that makes sense, but our lies.
So anyway, so we the night before the wedding, we
(16:31):
were at rehearsal dinner and it wasn't a good experience
for me at all. Why just what happened there? He
kind of turned our rehearsal dinner into I guess a
bachelor party with the buds in the back and his
nephews and you know, the the.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
Guy isolating himself from everybody else.
Speaker 6 (16:52):
Yeah, And then I went to go sit with him
to have our dinner and there was no room for
me and he didn't make room, and so I wasn't happy,
but I didn't say anything. We had twenty five people
at rehearsal dinner, so then I just you know, I
sat down next to my family. But that night, we
were staying at the Laberge and I wanted to talk
about it. He went right to sleep. And that's another thing,
(17:13):
another characteristic. They dismiss you and they silenced you, and
they actually act like nothing happened, like everything was fine.
So then you're going, am I overreacting? Am I being
you know? Just whatever? So the next morning we woke up.
I had to go down into the glamor room to
start getting ready at like nine am. And we woke
(17:35):
up and I said, can we talk about what happened
last night? And he said sure, Well that's when his
mask fell off. So his mask fell off the morning
of my wedding.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Oh okay, what happened.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
So I said, can we talk about what happened? And
he said sure, and I said, I was very disappointed
that you didn't have my back at rehearsal dinner, or
you didn't make way for me to sit next to
you at rehearsal dinner, and that we weren't a couple.
We weren't, you know, a rehearsal dinner, you kind of
sit together. And I got it by myself and thanked
(18:09):
everybody for being there because he was on the whole
other side of the room talking with his butts. And
the minute I said I was disappointed in how you
did not have my back last night, he literally turned
into a different person and he started projecting back on
me and said I was passive, aggressive, I always had
(18:32):
to win and one hundred percent and it's not mouse
And I just stopped and I looked at him, and
I had the worst feeling of my stomach and I thought,
oh my god. But I didn't know what a narcissist was,
so I didn't recognize this at all. And I made
excuses for him, and I thought, well, he's just nervous,
(18:53):
or he's got he's getting cold feet, or it's just
it's a big day. We've got a lot of people
that came in and flew in, and so I just
missed it. You guys, I just pushed it aside. But
I did say to him before I went into Glamorom,
I said, we have a lot to work on, don't we. Because,
by the way, the whole time we were dating, we
never argued. We never had a fight. And I remember
(19:14):
telling my ninety three year old mom, I said.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Mom, we never fight.
Speaker 6 (19:17):
Isn't this amazing? And she goes, no, that's not good
at all. I said, you need to have an argument,
not fight fight. You need to have an argument so
that you can see how you effectively argue and then
effectively communicate. And I was like, hush, I think you're right.
But I thought it was great. We never argued. Wrong,
another red flag.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
I've heard this from several people before. We never argue.
It's just so great. It's like, wait a minute, I
always touches me is wrong. There's always something wrong about that.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
Yes, yes, yes, So that's definitely a red flag. So
I left, went down got glam was probably I was
in a five. I was really just kind of numb.
And the girls that were down stick doing the gland.
They are also singing in the in the wedding, and
they're good friends of mine and they're a faith based
singing group. Girls group shout out to hire authority and
(20:11):
they I told them what happened, and because they were
good friends of mine, and we all got into a
group and they said, Karen, whatever you want to do,
we'll support you. And I thought, well, I don't know
what it was, so I'll just and then we prayed.
We literally they prayed, and I got buried. We got married,
and and then the hell started that day and for
(20:33):
the next and for the next ten months. So my
marriage lasted ten months.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
What happened on your wedding night? Nothing? Wow?
Speaker 6 (20:45):
And the night after and the night after, and it
got to the over ten months. I remember people would
ask me, friends, family, Oh, how's married life?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
How is it?
Speaker 3 (20:57):
You're like idea?
Speaker 6 (20:58):
All I kept saying. I would say the same. My
friends would tell me. Now, you would always say the
same thing. It's hard, and so I you know, I
saw a therapist and he goes, well, your first year
is always the hardest, and i'd been married before and
I don't remember being that hard, but it's always the hardest.
So I said, okay, then, just okay, it's it's hard
(21:20):
the first year and you know, you're getting to know
each other and he moved in with me to my house.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Can I ask you something real, fust Yes, who was
the breadwinner in this relationship? Is that? Is that part?
Speaker 3 (21:33):
I'm going to say it with you?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Is that part of it? The money being what it's like?
Did he have money and you had money? Did he
like use a lot of your I'm just trying to
figure out that part of being a narcissist is like
feeding off of other people.
Speaker 6 (21:53):
Yeah, totally grifter ish. It's different for everybody. He had no.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Money, Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
But I didn't know until we went right, Yeah, so
I didn't know. So I did have him sign a
prenup because I did have a company and a house
and so he's I had him sign a prenup and
so when he left ten months later, I never had
him pay for He'd buy food everyonece, you know, he'd
(22:25):
buy food and he would cook, But I never had
him pay anything in the household, because there must. There
was something in the back of my mind when I
got that prenup that you know, I don't want him
paying for anything because I don't want him to come
back if this doesn't work out and say well I
did pay for this, and I did pay for that,
and then try to get money right, so he did not.
(22:50):
I didn't like, he didn't cost me any money. But
here here I was, you know, making the money and
supporting and all that other good stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Did he say something to you ten months later like
I'm done or was it you? Oh God?
Speaker 6 (23:07):
This is the part that broke me the most. So
narcissists will do different that you asked about the money.
If narcissists have money and they're married to somebody and
you've raised a family, and that's horrible situation where you
got married, you raised k you have kids, you have
(23:27):
assets together, and then when the woman tries to leave,
the man will bank and or the woman or opposite.
They will try to bankrupt them because they do have
this really money. They're very much into money. But when
you don't have money, you know, you can't be into money.
If you don't have money, and he never tried to
take money from me, but he had a beautiful home
(23:50):
to live in. We had traveled nice places. So we'll
get to the part where it ended. And this is
the part that broke me. And this is the part
that I ended up seeing three different therapists. You always
want to see a therapist that knows how to know
it's all about narcissists, because a lot of therapists don't
(24:11):
under don't know how to how to help somebody who's
been in a narcissistic relationship. So I found one in
del Mar, a great psychologist, and then I had a
healer in New York, and then I had my therapist here.
So I really had a lot of work to do
on myself. So what happened was was in April. It
(24:35):
was my birthday. And they do ruin holidays. Oh yes,
they ruin birthdays holidays because the focus isn't on them,
and so they will just make you feel like you
are so insignificant and nothing is special about you. So
it was my birthday and it wasn't a bit. I
don't make a big deal about my birthdays. But when
(24:56):
you're married and I had a husband, now that I
hadn't had in fifteen years, and you know, you want
to spend your birthdays together, you want to be celebrated
by your husband. And that day was a horrible day.
I ended up just driving around sobbing hysterically. He went
and did his own thing. He just kind of ignored me.
They ignore you, they silence you, they don't talk, they
(25:19):
don't like it's like you don't exist. And he had
made reservations at a very nice restaurant and he had
told me that a couple of days before. And this
is how broken I was at that point, because I'm
driving around sobbing, I mean sobbing and screaming and crying,
and I knew something was terribly wrong. But I remember
(25:40):
texting him and saying, are we still going to dinner?
Because if you don't want to go, that's okay. This
is how broken I was, And I mean, I had
to tell you, I'm pretty strong. I've always been very independent.
I've always I'm a strong woman. But he broke me
to where I was like, if you don't want to
(26:01):
take me to dinner, it's okay, it's all right, and
just sobbing, and he texts back and he goes no,
we'll still go. So I got home. He got home,
hadn't seen him all day, got ready, and I, by
this point I was constantly nauseous, so physically I was
ill too, living with the narcissist, and so we got ready,
got in the car. He didn't say one word all
(26:22):
the way up there, and I'm just like a mess.
We get to this beautiful restaurant and I couldn't eat
and took some SIPs of my wine. Couldn't eat, didn't talk,
had no conversation. Oh my god, at all awkward. Get home.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I threw up.
Speaker 6 (26:43):
Just from the wine. And I didn't drink a lot,
but threw up. He proceeded. Two days later, some friends
came over and started telling everybody how he bought this
four hundred dollars dollar bottle of wine from my birthday
and I came home and threw it all up.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
But that's also what they do with this is what
they do.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
They talk about you in front of people and minimize you.
Speaker 6 (27:09):
Totally minimize. However, they also at the same time they're
minimizing you, they want there's this facade that they have
because they don't want anybody to know that they are narcissistic,
or that they do treat you me.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
They do not want to be discovered.
Speaker 6 (27:23):
They do not want to be discovered, so they will
also go, oh, isn't my wife this, or she's so this,
or I'm so proud of her, and you just sit
there and you know that's all lies, because nobody knows
what goes on behind closed doors, but in front of
other people, they need to keep up that image because
to narcissists, their image is everything. They lose that and
(27:45):
then they lose their power, they lose their control. So
we got home that night, I threw up. We had
friends over a couple days later he said that story.
The next day, I woke up and he had I
don't know where he went, and I was sitting in
the chair in the living room when he walked in,
and I said, I was sobbing. I said I can't
(28:07):
live like this anymore. And this was nine eight months
into our marriage. I said I can't live like this anymore,
and of course immediately he said I can't either, and
I said this is how I feel. And he immediately
said with just attacking like I mean, I resent your feelings,
(28:29):
And I said, how can you resent my feelings. They're
my feelings. Remember these guys, there's no empathy, there's nothing.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
It's scary. Do they know they're a narcissistic person? If not,
how do they become one? And how like you can't
say I'm John, I'm a narcissist, Like he probably just
thinks he's a regular person.
Speaker 6 (28:54):
Yeah, that's for a therapist to think. Oh okay, I
can't answer that. But because of all, even though I
said I feel like I have a pH d, I
don't really. But I do know this because I've heard
it from my therapist and I've done a ton of reading.
The majority of this large percentage of narcissists, it's due
to childhood trauma and they didn't get past the trauma
(29:18):
and they stayed stuck. And so now they're like young
boys or young girls in adult bodies, so they throw
temper tantrums. It's all about them. I mean, it really has.
Most of it has to do with childhood trauma that
they just haven't gotten through.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I know, his narcissism. Oh my god, you were This
is every single thing she has said, is this person?
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Now okay, so.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
And you know, did you ever I'm going to ask
you this because I went through the same thing. Did
you ever have conversation engineer? Like, I don't even know
how to respond to this because whatever you said, whether
it was you either didn't ask enough questions or you
ask too many questions, or hey, I don't want to hear,
I don't want to talk about it anymore. And then
(30:04):
you're like okay, and then it comes back to bite
you all the time in the rear end. So they're like, well,
you didn't ask me about this all the time. I
tried to, but you didn't.
Speaker 6 (30:12):
Because they silence you. They silence you, right. Yeah, it's
a lot of their gaslighting. It's a lot of the
manipulation and the control that they do. It's it's so Consequently,
he said he couldn't live like that either, and then
he left for the day, and I sat there again
crying and really thinking through things and going, you know what,
(30:34):
maybe if I can't control him, but maybe if I
control how I respond to him, we can get along better.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
This will work.
Speaker 6 (30:43):
I did everything I could to lean into this marriage.
I mean, I didn't get married to get divorced, right.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
You know, And yeah, I totally hear what you're saying.
Speaker 6 (30:54):
Yeah, so you just you at the EmPATH us try
to do everything we can to make things work. So
I he came home later that day and I said
to him, I said, I really want to try and
make this work. And I said, and just what I
just said Now, I said, I can't control how you
(31:14):
react to things and how you are, but I can
control how I respond to you. And I said, if
you're willing to work with that, you know, let's keep
moving forward. And of course he said, yes, of course. However,
two months later he came to me and said, I
(31:39):
think we need to spend some time away apart and
to reset our marriage. And I said reset And well,
I don't understand what that means, and he said, so
he goes. I he rented an apartment and signed a
twelve year lease.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
I'm sorry, well twelve years twelve minds could have been
twelve years.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
I'm not missed, cleo. But let me take a guess.
He already had.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Another another source, another supply, Yeah, another supply.
Speaker 6 (32:13):
So supplies are another relationship, another person, because they can't
be without one, because that's how they thrive, because they
thrive on So we up narcissist value. Right, So we
up their value, and without us they lose their value,
so they always have to go to another supply. I
(32:33):
don't believe that. I don't and for many reasons, I
don't think that. But I do know that the day
I said to him, the day after my birthday, when
I said I can't live like this anymore, he went
out and he put and he found an apartment and
sign the application or whatever. And so for those two
(32:55):
months he acted like nothing was wrong. We live no,
And that's what they do too. They will gaslight you
and then they'll turn around two minutes later like, hey, hun,
let's what do you want for dinner? Like and so
psychotic it is, and guess what you're We're left to
be going. Am I going crazy?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
We think it's us? But you start to do yes,
what's wrong with me?
Speaker 6 (33:19):
Yes? Exactly. And so but he led me to believe
that he had found it that day. And we all
know in the market, and this is a couple of
years ago, you can't just sign an apple and sign.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
A lease that day.
Speaker 6 (33:31):
They have to do a background and application. So he
had signed a twelve month lease. He had already bought
all his furniture, he had already gotten paint and was
going to color the you know whatever.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
The walls with what money.
Speaker 6 (33:47):
But well, he got money while he was living with
He actually made money living with me, not from me either.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Because she paid all the house. Yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 6 (33:55):
That's I won't go into how he made the money
because that's that's that's an that's yeah, that's his business.
But so he he came to me and he said,
I'm leaving, and I said when. And literally in a
couple of days, he was going to get the keys
to the apartment and then he started packing, unpacking, you know,
(34:16):
this little stuff he had, and then the movers were
coming on a Friday, and he was coming home every
day at the end of the moving and painting and
getting the key and coming back and going, hey, Han,
you know, you want to watch our show and I'll
cook dinner and I'll build a fire like nothing. It
was psychotic, and I would go into my closet and
(34:38):
I would break down and I'm crying and I'm because
you're messed up. You're literally so confused and so messed up.
And then I would pull myself together and come back
out and sit down and we'd be having dinner and
it was just you guys. It was so bizarre, and
all my friends and my family were going kick him out.
(34:59):
Why you're letting him come back? Because he wanted to
wait till his furniture got into his apartment. He did
before he left, so he had furniture in a bed
to sleep and that was going to take four days.
But I kept saying, I can't that's my husband. I
can't just kick him out now.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Okay, wait, yes, somebody listening or watching right now is like,
oh my god, this is Tom. I'm with this person.
I'm with one of these people. What is the first
thing this person should do?
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Start to disconnect?
Speaker 6 (35:35):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I mean like no tonight, Like what can they do
tonight to like stop this nonsense? Well, you stop this
person from ruining their lives.
Speaker 6 (35:45):
You can't stop the person. You can only control what
you do.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Correct.
Speaker 6 (35:50):
You have to start making the decision now. If this
sounds like your situation, you need to start making plans.
If you're living together, to get out. If you're dating them,
leave and by the way, go no contact, no contact,
right because they will mine didn't, but they will make
(36:11):
your life miserable.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Oh yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (36:16):
And as far as communicating with them and any Again,
I'm not a therapist, but any therapist will tell you
that you just answer if they you don't get into
any conflict with them.
Speaker 5 (36:28):
Okay, is the worst thing you can say to them, Yeah,
because it drives them crazy if you just go okay.
Speaker 6 (36:35):
Yeah, but that's what you're we're told to do. Though,
by the way, that's how you communicate to them. You
don't engage in a conversation. You'll never win, ever win,
because the minute you disagree with them, you will see
that smile fade and that mass come off, and the
real them is what you're seeing.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
And you will be told the most vicious things that
anybody has ever said to anybody.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
And they do not care if you do engage.
Speaker 5 (37:05):
Oh, if you engage, or they'll do it to spark
an argument, yes, you know, they'll they'll tell you you're
a horrible mother or a horrible housekeeper, you know.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Okay, So somebody who's on a dating app me for example,
which I haven't looked at in like six months, but whatever,
we're not going to get into that. Okay, what are
the first couple of signs to watch for to like,
before I get into deep.
Speaker 6 (37:33):
So I always because I do coach and mentor young
people and also people my age, because even though there's
a lot of similarities, so there's a lot of differences.
Because when you're older, you don't want to spend the
rest of your life alone. You want to partner. So
what is it You get desperate and you'll like settle
(37:53):
for anyone, and when you do that, you get into trouble.
I always tell young people and older people you can't
tell off of a dating site at all. What you
have to do is you ask them, You talk to them, engage,
ask them questions, not on text, have a phone conversation,
or meet them for coffee, not a girl house of wine,
(38:13):
meet them for coffee. And I always say you silo
your questions. The first set of questions should be tell
me about where you were born, tell me about your parents,
tell me about your siblings. What's your relationship with your
parents' big one. It's a big one because that's where
the childhood trauma, that's where it all comes from. So
you need to make sure when they say I hated
(38:35):
my mom or I had you know I was abused
or I was abandoned. You know what, run yep.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Even though like your heart wants to say, oh, I
want to comfort you.
Speaker 6 (38:48):
Because of that, that's the EmPATH in you, that's the
EmPATH in us. We want to help people, we want
to fix them. You can't fix them, no, So you
got to be careful on the dating apps because you're
not going to know until you actually have that conversation.
But ask that set of questions first. I don't care
what you do for a living. I don't care what
(39:10):
car you drive, how much money you make. I want
to know about your childhood. I want to know about
your faith. I want to know if their values aligned
with mine. I want to know about that. I don't
All the rest of the stuff comes in silo number
two and then silo number three.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I then love bombing is another one I've heard is
a big red flag right brought off the bat for
many reasons, right.
Speaker 6 (39:31):
Off the bad love bombing, because that's always say they
get you in their web through web love bombing. Once
they get you in the web, they use you, they
abuse you, they destroy you, and then they leave you
and they leave you broken. And whether it's ten months
like mine, thirty years like a lot of people, fifteen years, whatever,
(39:53):
that looks like it's very, very damaging.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
It's so damaging, yase.
Speaker 5 (39:58):
Sometimes on the receiving end, you just get to the point,
especially if there's nothing tying you in. You don't have
a pet together or kids, or real estate or bank
accounts or anything, you just completely lose interest.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
And that's how I was.
Speaker 5 (40:16):
I wasn't married to this person or anything, and I
was just like, I'm just done.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
You disengage, Yeah, I just completely disengage in.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
It was the best thing I ever did.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Yes, it wasn't easy.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
It was not easy.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
No, and you went through a lot of pain.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
It was a lame nightmare.
Speaker 4 (40:35):
And it was mainly things that were said, you know
after you left.
Speaker 6 (40:39):
Oh yeah, oh they smear you. Yeah, they smear It's
a smear campaign. It's part of their whole, it's part
of the disorder. It's part of their journey. And you
have to but you can't listen to it. You can't ruminate, right,
and you just you can't listen to it. And the
sad thing is is that people probably thought he was
such a great guy on the outside, right uh yeah,
(41:03):
yeah yeah, And so nobody is going to believe that
he is the one projecting all that stuff on you
when it's really them.
Speaker 5 (41:11):
Until they see the text messages, until they're like.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Smokes, okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Another thing that you kind of touched on. And I
don't know if you ever felt this, but our guts
don't lie.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
I felt it just like.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
We just ignore it, yeah, ign because we're having fun
and they think that we think that they love us,
and it feels great to be loved.
Speaker 6 (41:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:39):
We know when you brought up a great point, Karen,
because in the initial you know, like honeymoon stage, where
you're getting to know somebody you're not you're not sure
what kind of questions to ask, and I did not
ask those questions. Like we talked about our families and stuff,
and I was very blessed that I had a fantastic
relationship with my parents and so I was very very lucky,
(42:04):
and I we touched on it, but then it was
the you know, I'm mad at you because you didn't
ask me enough questions, and I'm like, okay, so then
you start to ask and that's what we were talking
about earlier, and then it was like, well, I don't
want to talk about it now, and it's like, oh crap, okay, right.
Speaker 6 (42:19):
And then you're walking on eggshells around them all the time.
You're walking on eggs shells, and oh, my gosh, I
and then and then you get to the point where
you don't even engage with them because you are afraid
of oh for shure, of the ramifications of just having
a normal conversation, of just being in a normal relationship.
But there's nothing normal about being in any relationship with
(42:43):
the narcissists.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
And you never ever know what's going to set them off. Right,
it could be.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Right, you know, wow, okay, talk about your rise with Karen? Yes,
So how can people attend? How can people see you
speak like? Talk about that? Right?
Speaker 6 (43:03):
So, after I got out, after he left, right, and
I just I was broke, and you know, you're not
thinking properly.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Your whole your whole.
Speaker 6 (43:17):
Body is in this chaotic state, right, You're shaking, You
can't even think, and it's like you're the earth underneath
you is not steady at all. So I had to,
you know, I started talking with therapists. I haven't went
away for a month because he lived in my house.
I didn't want to be in my house. I love
my house. I've been there forever. I raised my kid
(43:37):
there and I just wanted to sell it. I didn't
even want to live there. It just was it was tainted, now,
you know. So I left. I left by myself for
a month to Italy and I rented a villa out
there to heal, because to be the Tuscan Valley is
just so calm and serene, and I thought that would
(43:59):
really helping the healing. And it did a couple of things.
It was I've never traveled abroad by myself, and it
was let me tell you, for all of you who
want to do that, it's scary, but it's empowering. It
is so empowering. So I flew there. I stayed there
for a month, no TV because it's all Italian. I
(44:19):
don't speak Italian, so you're there just with your thoughts.
And I walked five and six hours just because I
got lost, not because I wanted to, and just trying
to just let your body calm down. And when I
got home, I saged the house, I sprinkled holy water,
I changed up a few things. So I started to
just to get back into my groove. But it took
(44:41):
a long time for the healing to really and then
I went into therapy and I'm a true believer in
turning in adversity being your currency. And what I mean
about that is turning pain into your purpose.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
What was meant.
Speaker 6 (45:01):
To break you will will then will empower you. And
that's why I want it. I've always been one of
my love languages is service to others. So I've had
other adversities in my life that that I have talked
about and not relating to this at all. But once
I get through them and I heal, I always want
(45:22):
to give back and share my experiences with others so
that they can either learn or from from what I
did and not to do it, or they can be
inspired knowing that whatever you go through, sure that you
will be You're going to be okay, but you have
to go through the grieving process. Whatever the adversity is.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
In this case, through is through, and.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
It's definitely a form of abuse.
Speaker 6 (45:51):
I'm sorry to no, No, that's okay, it absolutely is.
But you have to go through it without numbing yourself
or you're going to delay your healing. So I purposely
didn't do I didn't want you know, people were saying,
have a glass of wine, take a hot bath. Oh
my god, that's the last thing I could do. I
couldn't sit still. My body was like just all every
(46:11):
cell was just active.
Speaker 4 (46:13):
And so being tasered four that's eric.
Speaker 6 (46:17):
That's a great way to explain. It's like you're being
tasered twenty four hours a.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Day, never know when that next jolta is.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Gonna exactly if somebody really need you now, Like is
there waiting to get a hold of you, Like, okay,
where can they find you?
Speaker 6 (46:33):
You can find me on Rise with Karen, on Instagram
and on Facebook. And I started Rise And it's actually
an acronym and I always have to because I've had
different acronim names for it to be honest with you,
because I've had so many people say, oh no, this
is what it should be, this is what it should be.
But at the end of the day, Rise is for ours,
for resurrection. You're resurrected from ashes, right, So I was
(46:56):
resurrected from ashes because you're broken. I is inspiration. I
want to give inspiration to others who have been through
in this case a narcissistic or in a narcissic relationship.
The S is for a survivor. We're survivors, we're not victims.
We're survivors. And the E is for empowerment, because once
you get through all of this, you're empowered. You get yourself,
(47:19):
you have self love again, you know your value, and
we allowed somebody to take all of that away from us.
And once you get through all this, you realize that
it just empowers you that much more. And I'm telling
you what. I'm an example, and we all have different stories,
in different levels of narcissistic abuse. Sure, and some it's easier.
(47:41):
I wasn't you know. We had no kids together, we
didn't have property together. It was pretty much a clean
break and it was ten months. Others not so lucky.
But I say this, no matter how entrenched you are,
and I have somebody very close to me who is
in the situation, I mean very family member, never lose hope.
Never think that you are stuck. Never think that, oh
(48:03):
my god, I want to lose everything. I'm going to
be living under a bridge. Live under the bridge. I'll
bring your blankets. Get away from these dangerous, dangerous people.
Speaker 5 (48:13):
And know one thing they are never going to change
for somebody else. And I think that's why a lot
of people stay in those relationships is because they think
God if I can, if I could just change this
tweak this little thing about them, right, they will if
they move on from you to another source, not source
(48:34):
of supply, they are never going to change for that person.
They will be grandiose and charming because they are. And
then when the mask falls off, it really makes a
thd and that person will be exactly a mirror image
of what you were one.
Speaker 6 (48:53):
And when that mask fell off for me, and when
it falls off, the person that you thought you were
in love with or thought you married never existed, never existed.
It was a mask. And when that mask came off,
that was the that's the true person. So you I
married somebody I didn't even know. I didn't marry the
(49:14):
person that I divorced.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
Yeah, okay, rise with Karen Instagram, Facebook. You're gonna where
can we see your ted talk eventually after you do.
Speaker 6 (49:25):
It, after I do it, so I'll be posting that
on that excellent.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (49:30):
And then I'm also going to be attending a woman's
retreat next week in the Sequoias and they're women from
all over the country and.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
It's women go to that if they want to.
Speaker 6 (49:40):
Well, it's limited, so it's it's closed now you do.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
That again, she will do it again.
Speaker 6 (49:47):
Okay, so she's she will do it. She does it
every single year. I'm going to go and I'm excited
to go. I'm going to learn from all these women.
We're going to inspire each other. We all have different stories.
And it's just not on narcissism, right, it's on it's
on our relationships, it's on finances, it's on our marriage,
it's it's on our businesses. So I am confident that
(50:08):
I'm gonna come back with some even more great inspiration
that I'll be able to share too, and it will
be posted to on my Instagram, all the different pictures
and and the some of the sessions and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Excellent. Okay, Well, you know what I think we do
need to and this program we have Eric, you have
your double D Well, we'll do that for Thursday. And Karen,
I can't thank you enough for being on with us.
I knew there are people watching and listening that are
in this situation, and I knew by having you on,
(50:44):
You're going to give sobody hope. You're going to help
if it's just one person get out of this situation.
And again, your gut never lies your got never lies.
You're just listened to your gut. Don't be scared to
listen to your gut, because talking.
Speaker 6 (51:00):
To you don't make excuses about your gut.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Eat not a sign of weakness.
Speaker 5 (51:04):
No, I don't know if you've experienced this, but it's
always been around, maybe not as in the forefront as
it is now. But I think a lot of it
also has to do with not only the way that
you were brought up, but now people are so much
more antisocial, Like kids don't go outside. Everybody's attached to
(51:25):
a device or and it's so much easier to just
be mean. And then love is so much stronger than hate.
And so I think when you're seeing these gen zers
and the millennials and stuff come up, there's definitely been
a rise in it because it's so easy to just
(51:48):
be hurtful and nasty. And you know, you see these
kids that get awards for.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
What what did you do?
Speaker 1 (51:54):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (51:54):
Well, we have to make everything equal, right, everybody gets
an award.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
A participation award, everybody, you know.
Speaker 5 (52:02):
So, yeah, don't get me on myself, you and.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
Later on, I don't think it's don't condemn to generations, please, Well,
it's we are. Gen X also has their share of
narciss of course, yes, I mean big time. So anyway,
thank you so much. At the end of our program,
we do it. The end of our show, we do
(52:29):
a little goodbye phrase and I'll do it first, then
if you would do it, and then Eric doesn't. We
close out and we say, Okay, thank you so much
for being on. And I know you've helped somebody tonight,
So thank you.
Speaker 6 (52:39):
Thank you guys for having me. And I hope if
I've just inspired one person to kind of think about
your relationship, if you feel some of these characters characteristics,
if you feel your gut and something's not right, don't
overthink it, don't second guess it, just leave.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
And with that, love your podcast, m love your podcast.
Love your podcast, Love you, my sweet babies, and bye everybody.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
Bye,
Lara Kane After Dark with Eric remembers a podcast you'll
dig if you like a genuine and laft so Biglar's
a love of ballunatic with above so brill The stories
are crazy, the real deal.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Eric's the talent.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
The people with says he's kind, hell Leary gets some
kind of crass.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Claire runs the.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Show super plaint nerd always in the note but guarantee
to make you laugh.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Plus sure we're late.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Uncle, your seat belts and don't be late.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Here we go, get buddy, It'll be great.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Hey, what is it all?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
You know what I hear? Hey, I see a phone up.
Speaker 5 (00:39):
I just heard that scream on ninety eight fiance.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I'm like, oh, well, yes, by the way, I'm on
right now. Maybe I don't know if my episode airs anyway. Well,
first of all, this is Laura Kane after Dark. Hello,
I'm Laura Kane. You are yes, Eric Grammer, my co host,
longtime co host of six years, plus Claire producer Claire
behind the Big. And then we have Karen Condy. She
(01:07):
is on because she's going to talk to us about narcissists.
She has an incredible story and we brought her on
because she is on a mission to help others so
they don't end up in a place where you were
in pain, in mistrust.
Speaker 6 (01:28):
And just brokenness.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
It's just wait, and I'm sure you have one in
your life. I know we have one. You have one.
You have a couple. I have a couple. And they're
not all men. In fact, two of mine are are women.
But we're going to get into that and in just
a little bit when we thought we'd start with her
(01:52):
on the couch just so we can all be comfy
and just say hi. But first we need to talk
about the Old Globe Theater because you know what kicked
off this weekend head a gambler.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
And we are going on Friday.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
We're going on Friday the thirteenth as a podcast family
and this already is getting outstanding reviews. You called me
to tell me about your friend. What do you say?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
That was fantastic?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Okay, somebody it's this is opening weekend, opening on the seventh,
that goes through March eighth. It's the first show of
the Old Globes twenty twenty six season. Yes, and this
is a show starring Katie Holmes. I know, right, wow,
And all we hear from just everybody involved in the production,
(02:44):
from Eric's friend who's already seen it, and just from
Barry Edelstein, who is the artistic director who's worked with
her before that she is just out standing in this role.
So this is the first show of the season. We
have a lot of other shows to look forward to.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
Why so heada Gambler kicks it off. Bartleb is next,
then Fences, Alien Girls, Kim's Convenience, The Ombres, Measure for Measure,
north By Northwest, Sarah No Much Ado About Nothing Begin Again,
which features the music by the lead singer of Trains.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Then that's a musical. It's going to be incredible.
Speaker 5 (03:26):
Yeah, it's going to be really good. And then Top
Dog Underdog rounds it out.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
The great thing about the Old Globe Theater is you
can pick and choose and pick your own package. So
if you want to get season tickets, it doesn't mean
you have to get season tickets to every single show.
You can pick four if you want to, or you
could pick this one and you can join us on
Friday night and hang out or whatever, or go on
(03:50):
a night when you can go.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
So the number is six one nine two three, four five,
six two three. You can also do it online at
Theoldglobe dot org and just put in LCAD and it'll
wave your handling fees.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yes, that's our little special code LCAD for Laura Kane
after dark, but it makes it easier LCAD, your handling
fees are waived. We would love to see you there.
The Old Globe a gem in Bulboa Park or I
spent most of the day today talking to people. Oh,
this will about various things, all about parking. No, we're
(04:25):
not going to worry about.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
That with the OT wait to hear about this.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
This is just people who actually work and volunteer in
Buboll Park on the regular. And what are they doing,
Like where do they have to park in order to
volunteer their time freely? Do they have to pay? Things
are changing, It's chaotic. I'll tell you about my my
experience in just a minute. But there's something else I'm
(04:49):
going to tell you about, something very cool coming up.
It's Ensan Clemented. But have you been to San Clementy?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
No? Not at all?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Well, yeah, okay, that town is special. I used to
spend my son there with my best friend Stacy, and
we would go there when we were I don't know
like ten eleven twelve in the summer for two weeks
and we stayed in a condo and it was right
across the train tracks, and the beach was right there
and the pier is right there. It just has such
(05:16):
special memories. But what's going on is the ash Wednesday
Open golf tournament and it happens on ash Wednesday, which
is the eighteenth of February, and it's an open day.
It's golf. But if you don't want a golf, you
just want to hang out, catch the beach, vibes, vibes,
the beautiful air, the sun. All these events that are
(05:39):
having food, free food by the way, booze. You do
have to pay for that. But there's going to be
a comedian, there's gonna be entertainment, there's to be lots
of golf, a relaxing day by the ocean, and it is.
If you want to get tickets, you go to event
bright dot com and then just search for the San
(06:01):
Clementy ash Wednesday Open and tickets range from seventy five
dollars if you want to play all the way up
to lots if you want to be like fancy and
play with a fancy group of people. If you don't
want a golf like I said, you can show up.
It's free and it's just going to be a great dancing.
(06:21):
There's dancing. I know how much you love that lunch.
It's at the Shore Cliffs golf Course. If you want
more information, just go ahead and email me at Laura
caane Ad at gmail and I will give you all
the details. But that's something fun to look forward to
ash Wednesday, just spending time on the ocean, either golfing
(06:44):
or just hanging out with golfers. Yeah, you know, so
there's that, like you. Karen told me earlier that she
needs water because her saliva glands like dry up. I know,
reach over girl right now, same with me.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
So Karen, I like to give Laura bad type about it.
I'll give you a bad type about it. But this
is the best part with Laura's mouth gets dry, her.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Teeth and then I can't words.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Oh I'm gonna have a field day to night.
Speaker 6 (07:19):
It's gonna be two of us doing that now, Okay, yeah, okay, right.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
There, Okay, I need to keep you ladies hydrated.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
We have Karen Condy on the show because she's going
to help you. She has been through something extremely traumatic,
and she has identified this person and if you look
it up, textbook narcissist, and what she has done is
taking that has taken this awful thing that just about
(07:50):
broke you, and you are turning it into not only
speaking engagements, but a way for men and men to
voice their concerns, to learn what to spot a narcissist,
what are the signs, why you should how to handle
them if you still want them in your life? Why
(08:11):
would you.
Speaker 6 (08:11):
Want them in your life?
Speaker 4 (08:12):
I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
To talk. So Rise with Karen is a platform based
on healing, faith and finding your voice after a narcissistic
encounter that has left you feeling like you're less than.
You are not less than, they're less then. Nobody is
less than, nobody is less than. So you have a
(08:37):
TED talk coming up.
Speaker 6 (08:39):
I do the TED talk coming up in Des Moines, Iowa,
at the end of April, and we're going to talk
about narcissism and what to look for and how to
avoid them, but the characteristics and how to get out
and how to get self love back, how to start
valuing yourself again. Because you are devalued, your silenced, you
(09:00):
are made to feel like you are worthless in these relationships,
whether they're in a marriage, intimate relationship, or even in
the workplace or as we kind of talked about friends, friends,
I've had to remove my some friends out of my life,
girlfriends that were toxic, that were narcissists.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I never thought of them being narcissists. I always thought
about them just being toxic. But looking back, why don't
you define what is a narcissist?
Speaker 6 (09:31):
Well, that is a very broad that's a word that
carries a very broad meaning because narcissism is there's different
levels of narcissism. It's on a scale. Okay, and look
at we're all we all have some sort of ego, right,
We're all human, so we have some level of egoism
(09:52):
in each one of us. But as you go up
that scale, it goes to narcissism, covert, malignantopathic, psychopathic. So
when you go up that range is when it gets
very dangerous, and when it is very dangerous now typically
and look at it. I feel like I have my
PhD in narcissism because of what I experienced, and I
(10:15):
made it my mission after I healed and went through
it to really understand more about it. Because I wanted
to understand why I was attracted to this type of
a person.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Why don't you start with your story, start at the beginning,
who you met, what happened, and then we'll go from there.
Speaker 6 (10:37):
Okay, So it was about three years ago and I
was single. I had been single for about fifteen years.
I was married for fifteen years, and I was just
living my life and I was building a company. I
had great friends, I was dating on and off, but
never really thought, especially at this point in my life,
(10:57):
in this age in my life, that I would ever
get married again, or if I that I ever wanted
to be married again. So I had put I met
this person on Facebook, so he had slipped into slipped
into my DMS or whatever, because he made a comment
on a post that I have posted, and it was
very nice what he had said.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
It was very sweet.
Speaker 6 (11:20):
So of course, I, you know, I try to respond
back to people that I don't know that are just
that said something very nice and sweet, and I just
said thank you. Well, then he started texting back and
just telling me all about himself and his kids and
what a great dad he was, and I thought, okay,
that's a lot, this is a lot of information. We're
just kind of texting each other here, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Not a texter like you never even met him, No,
I never.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
Met him yet. And so I finally, because I to
be honest with you, I was, I was at work
and I didn't have time to text like he obviously did.
And I said, you know what, like I would do
with a lot of people. I'm sorry to say, it's like,
you know, let's just grab coffee sometime, just to kind
of put him off, right, he came right back and said, well,
let's skip coffee and get a glass of wine. And
(12:06):
there is something in me, you guys that I knew,
just don't that's that's kind of raising it to a
whole nother level. I've never met this person.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
In your gut, you already knew.
Speaker 6 (12:15):
And I didn't listen. Didn't listen to my gut. And
so I said, okay, all right. So this was like
on a Tuesday, I met him on a Friday. Well,
what started out as a glass of wine turned into
dinner and a five hour conversation. And I remember the
next day, I went to a baby shower with some girlfriends,
(12:36):
and you know, daughters of girlfriends were too old for
the babies now, but daughters of girlfriends.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
And I went, but there you go.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
I know, I don't want people to think that we
won't anyway, that I said too, I said to my friends,
I said, wow, that was really interesting. I met somebody
last night and it was surprising.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
He was very charge.
Speaker 6 (13:00):
They're very charming, they're very charismatic. Yeah he will, of course,
I okay, cute anyway, So then he asked me out
the next day and I went, and then all of
a sudden, I found myself in a relationship with him,
and the love bombing started happening right away, you guys,
and that is the first red flag that you really
(13:23):
need to be aware of in narcissistic people. They will
bring you into their into their web, I call it.
They bring into their web by doing what by love bombing,
by telling you really on the first date, second date,
within a week, that you're where have they? Where have
you been?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
All their lives?
Speaker 6 (13:41):
I think I'm falling in love with you. Hear all
the things a woman wants to hear and a man
wants to hear. But it's it's a huge red flag
because real love is steady. It's a steady burn narcissistic
love is quick because they want to get you in
(14:03):
their web as soon as possible. So he was like,
literally the second day, he was sending me texts and reels.
You know, there's little memes where there's music, and it's like,
you are the love of my life. I think you're
so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Oh.
Speaker 6 (14:18):
I was waking up in the morning at five am
and I already had at least ten in my phone. Wow,
at least ten of in my phone. And I remember
thinking this is weird, But there was also a part
of me that was like, oh god, this is so cool.
Its point so it's so you know, it just continued, continued, continued,
(14:43):
and we dated for nine months, never moved in together,
dated for night. He has kids, I have a son
that lives Beck East with grandkids, and so we never
moved in together. But nine months after we started dating
he proposed. Yeah, so we in January and he proposed
in December and shot. I was shocked, and we were
(15:06):
back East for Christmas, and I said, yes, Well, nine.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Months is a good that's a decent amount of time,
you know, like you shouldn't beat yourself becaus it's a
short amount of time. It's a decent amount of time.
Speaker 6 (15:17):
Yeah, it is a decent amount of time, especially when
your runway ahead of you is a lot shorter than
the runway behind you. Yeah, it's like you don't have
the time to stay for two years, three years, whatever.
And so we got married, he proposed, But we got
married seven months later. Again, we have a shorter runway
ahead of us than we do behind us. So we
(15:41):
had a huge, beautiful wedding at the Laberge.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Oh okay, and all of.
Speaker 6 (15:48):
Our children and our grandchildren were in the wedding. I
wore a white dress and a veil. And this is
my second marriage, second marriage.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
It was his fourth.
Speaker 6 (15:57):
But I didn't know that while I was dating. Their
pathological liars is another.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
It's another characteristic.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, you did not know this going into the day before.
Speaker 6 (16:08):
No, I knew it going into the wedding, but I
didn't know it for the majority of our dating. And
then when he said, and I'm like, and then he
explained himself. They're very good at explaining themselves. They're very
good at telling you things that makes sense, but our lies.
So anyway, so we the night before the wedding, we
(16:31):
were at rehearsal dinner and it wasn't a good experience
for me at all. Why just what happened there? He
kind of turned our rehearsal dinner into I guess a
bachelor party with the buds in the back and his
nephews and you know, the the.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
Guy isolating himself from everybody else.
Speaker 6 (16:52):
Yeah, And then I went to go sit with him
to have our dinner and there was no room for
me and he didn't make room, and so I wasn't happy,
but I didn't say anything. We had twenty five people
at rehearsal dinner, so then I just you know, I
sat down next to my family. But that night, we
were staying at the Laberge and I wanted to talk
about it. He went right to sleep. And that's another thing,
(17:13):
another characteristic. They dismiss you and they silenced you, and
they actually act like nothing happened, like everything was fine.
So then you're going, am I overreacting? Am I being
you know? Just whatever? So the next morning we woke up.
I had to go down into the glamor room to
start getting ready at like nine am. And we woke
(17:35):
up and I said, can we talk about what happened
last night? And he said sure, Well that's when his
mask fell off. So his mask fell off the morning
of my wedding.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Oh okay, what happened.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
So I said, can we talk about what happened? And
he said sure, and I said, I was very disappointed
that you didn't have my back at rehearsal dinner, or
you didn't make way for me to sit next to
you at rehearsal dinner, and that we weren't a couple.
We weren't, you know, a rehearsal dinner, you kind of
sit together. And I got it by myself and thanked
(18:09):
everybody for being there because he was on the whole
other side of the room talking with his butts. And
the minute I said I was disappointed in how you
did not have my back last night, he literally turned
into a different person and he started projecting back on
me and said I was passive, aggressive, I always had
(18:32):
to win and one hundred percent and it's not mouse
And I just stopped and I looked at him, and
I had the worst feeling of my stomach and I thought,
oh my god. But I didn't know what a narcissist was,
so I didn't recognize this at all. And I made
excuses for him, and I thought, well, he's just nervous,
(18:53):
or he's got he's getting cold feet, or it's just
it's a big day. We've got a lot of people
that came in and flew in, and so I just
missed it. You guys, I just pushed it aside. But
I did say to him before I went into Glamorom,
I said, we have a lot to work on, don't we. Because,
by the way, the whole time we were dating, we
never argued. We never had a fight. And I remember
(19:14):
telling my ninety three year old mom, I said.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Mom, we never fight.
Speaker 6 (19:17):
Isn't this amazing? And she goes, no, that's not good
at all. I said, you need to have an argument,
not fight fight. You need to have an argument so
that you can see how you effectively argue and then
effectively communicate. And I was like, hush, I think you're right.
But I thought it was great. We never argued. Wrong,
another red flag.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
I've heard this from several people before. We never argue.
It's just so great. It's like, wait a minute, I
always touches me is wrong. There's always something wrong about that.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
Yes, yes, yes, So that's definitely a red flag. So
I left, went down got glam was probably I was
in a five. I was really just kind of numb.
And the girls that were down stick doing the gland.
They are also singing in the in the wedding, and
they're good friends of mine and they're a faith based
singing group. Girls group shout out to hire authority and
(20:11):
they I told them what happened, and because they were
good friends of mine, and we all got into a
group and they said, Karen, whatever you want to do,
we'll support you. And I thought, well, I don't know
what it was, so I'll just and then we prayed.
We literally they prayed, and I got buried. We got married,
and and then the hell started that day and for
(20:33):
the next and for the next ten months. So my
marriage lasted ten months.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
What happened on your wedding night? Nothing? Wow?
Speaker 6 (20:45):
And the night after and the night after, and it
got to the over ten months. I remember people would
ask me, friends, family, Oh, how's married life?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
How is it?
Speaker 3 (20:57):
You're like idea?
Speaker 6 (20:58):
All I kept saying. I would say the same. My
friends would tell me. Now, you would always say the
same thing. It's hard, and so I you know, I
saw a therapist and he goes, well, your first year
is always the hardest, and i'd been married before and
I don't remember being that hard, but it's always the hardest.
So I said, okay, then, just okay, it's it's hard
(21:20):
the first year and you know, you're getting to know
each other and he moved in with me to my house.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Can I ask you something real, fust Yes, who was
the breadwinner in this relationship? Is that? Is that part?
Speaker 3 (21:33):
I'm going to say it with you?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Is that part of it? The money being what it's like?
Did he have money and you had money? Did he
like use a lot of your I'm just trying to
figure out that part of being a narcissist is like
feeding off of other people.
Speaker 6 (21:53):
Yeah, totally grifter ish. It's different for everybody. He had no.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Money, Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
But I didn't know until we went right, Yeah, so
I didn't know. So I did have him sign a
prenup because I did have a company and a house
and so he's I had him sign a prenup and
so when he left ten months later, I never had
him pay for He'd buy food everyonece, you know, he'd
(22:25):
buy food and he would cook, But I never had
him pay anything in the household, because there must. There
was something in the back of my mind when I
got that prenup that you know, I don't want him
paying for anything because I don't want him to come
back if this doesn't work out and say well I
did pay for this, and I did pay for that,
and then try to get money right, so he did not.
(22:50):
I didn't like, he didn't cost me any money. But
here here I was, you know, making the money and
supporting and all that other good stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Did he say something to you ten months later like
I'm done or was it you? Oh God?
Speaker 6 (23:07):
This is the part that broke me the most. So
narcissists will do different that you asked about the money.
If narcissists have money and they're married to somebody and
you've raised a family, and that's horrible situation where you
got married, you raised k you have kids, you have
(23:27):
assets together, and then when the woman tries to leave,
the man will bank and or the woman or opposite.
They will try to bankrupt them because they do have
this really money. They're very much into money. But when
you don't have money, you know, you can't be into money.
If you don't have money, and he never tried to
take money from me, but he had a beautiful home
(23:50):
to live in. We had traveled nice places. So we'll
get to the part where it ended. And this is
the part that broke me. And this is the part
that I ended up seeing three different therapists. You always
want to see a therapist that knows how to know
it's all about narcissists, because a lot of therapists don't
(24:11):
under don't know how to how to help somebody who's
been in a narcissistic relationship. So I found one in
del Mar, a great psychologist, and then I had a
healer in New York, and then I had my therapist here.
So I really had a lot of work to do
on myself. So what happened was was in April. It
(24:35):
was my birthday. And they do ruin holidays. Oh yes,
they ruin birthdays holidays because the focus isn't on them,
and so they will just make you feel like you
are so insignificant and nothing is special about you. So
it was my birthday and it wasn't a bit. I
don't make a big deal about my birthdays. But when
(24:56):
you're married and I had a husband, now that I
hadn't had in fifteen years, and you know, you want
to spend your birthdays together, you want to be celebrated
by your husband. And that day was a horrible day.
I ended up just driving around sobbing hysterically. He went
and did his own thing. He just kind of ignored me.
They ignore you, they silence you, they don't talk, they
(25:19):
don't like it's like you don't exist. And he had
made reservations at a very nice restaurant and he had
told me that a couple of days before. And this
is how broken I was at that point, because I'm
driving around sobbing, I mean sobbing and screaming and crying,
and I knew something was terribly wrong. But I remember
(25:40):
texting him and saying, are we still going to dinner?
Because if you don't want to go, that's okay. This
is how broken I was, And I mean, I had
to tell you, I'm pretty strong. I've always been very independent.
I've always I'm a strong woman. But he broke me
to where I was like, if you don't want to
(26:01):
take me to dinner, it's okay, it's all right, and
just sobbing, and he texts back and he goes no,
we'll still go. So I got home. He got home,
hadn't seen him all day, got ready, and I, by
this point I was constantly nauseous, so physically I was
ill too, living with the narcissist, and so we got ready,
got in the car. He didn't say one word all
(26:22):
the way up there, and I'm just like a mess.
We get to this beautiful restaurant and I couldn't eat
and took some SIPs of my wine. Couldn't eat, didn't talk,
had no conversation. Oh my god, at all awkward. Get home.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I threw up.
Speaker 6 (26:43):
Just from the wine. And I didn't drink a lot,
but threw up. He proceeded. Two days later, some friends
came over and started telling everybody how he bought this
four hundred dollars dollar bottle of wine from my birthday
and I came home and threw it all up.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
But that's also what they do with this is what
they do.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
They talk about you in front of people and minimize you.
Speaker 6 (27:09):
Totally minimize. However, they also at the same time they're
minimizing you, they want there's this facade that they have
because they don't want anybody to know that they are narcissistic,
or that they do treat you me.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
They do not want to be discovered.
Speaker 6 (27:23):
They do not want to be discovered, so they will
also go, oh, isn't my wife this, or she's so this,
or I'm so proud of her, and you just sit
there and you know that's all lies, because nobody knows
what goes on behind closed doors, but in front of
other people, they need to keep up that image because
to narcissists, their image is everything. They lose that and
(27:45):
then they lose their power, they lose their control. So
we got home that night, I threw up. We had
friends over a couple days later he said that story.
The next day, I woke up and he had I
don't know where he went, and I was sitting in
the chair in the living room when he walked in,
and I said, I was sobbing. I said I can't
(28:07):
live like this anymore. And this was nine eight months
into our marriage. I said I can't live like this anymore,
and of course immediately he said I can't either, and
I said this is how I feel. And he immediately
said with just attacking like I mean, I resent your feelings,
(28:29):
And I said, how can you resent my feelings. They're
my feelings. Remember these guys, there's no empathy, there's nothing.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
It's scary. Do they know they're a narcissistic person? If not,
how do they become one? And how like you can't
say I'm John, I'm a narcissist, Like he probably just
thinks he's a regular person.
Speaker 6 (28:54):
Yeah, that's for a therapist to think. Oh okay, I
can't answer that. But because of all, even though I
said I feel like I have a pH d, I
don't really. But I do know this because I've heard
it from my therapist and I've done a ton of reading.
The majority of this large percentage of narcissists, it's due
to childhood trauma and they didn't get past the trauma
(29:18):
and they stayed stuck. And so now they're like young
boys or young girls in adult bodies, so they throw
temper tantrums. It's all about them. I mean, it really has.
Most of it has to do with childhood trauma that
they just haven't gotten through.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I know, his narcissism. Oh my god, you were This
is every single thing she has said, is this person?
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Now okay, so.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
And you know, did you ever I'm going to ask
you this because I went through the same thing. Did
you ever have conversation engineer? Like, I don't even know
how to respond to this because whatever you said, whether
it was you either didn't ask enough questions or you
ask too many questions, or hey, I don't want to hear,
I don't want to talk about it anymore. And then
(30:04):
you're like okay, and then it comes back to bite
you all the time in the rear end. So they're like, well,
you didn't ask me about this all the time. I
tried to, but you didn't.
Speaker 6 (30:12):
Because they silence you. They silence you, right. Yeah, it's
a lot of their gaslighting. It's a lot of the
manipulation and the control that they do. It's it's so Consequently,
he said he couldn't live like that either, and then
he left for the day, and I sat there again
crying and really thinking through things and going, you know what,
(30:34):
maybe if I can't control him, but maybe if I
control how I respond to him, we can get along better.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
This will work.
Speaker 6 (30:43):
I did everything I could to lean into this marriage.
I mean, I didn't get married to get divorced, right.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
You know, And yeah, I totally hear what you're saying.
Speaker 6 (30:54):
Yeah, so you just you at the EmPATH us try
to do everything we can to make things work. So
I he came home later that day and I said
to him, I said, I really want to try and
make this work. And I said, and just what I
just said Now, I said, I can't control how you
(31:14):
react to things and how you are, but I can
control how I respond to you. And I said, if
you're willing to work with that, you know, let's keep
moving forward. And of course he said, yes, of course. However,
two months later he came to me and said, I
(31:39):
think we need to spend some time away apart and
to reset our marriage. And I said reset And well,
I don't understand what that means, and he said, so
he goes. I he rented an apartment and signed a
twelve year lease.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
I'm sorry, well twelve years twelve minds could have been
twelve years.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
I'm not missed, cleo. But let me take a guess.
He already had.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Another another source, another supply, Yeah, another supply.
Speaker 6 (32:13):
So supplies are another relationship, another person, because they can't
be without one, because that's how they thrive, because they
thrive on So we up narcissist value. Right, So we
up their value, and without us they lose their value,
so they always have to go to another supply. I
(32:33):
don't believe that. I don't and for many reasons, I
don't think that. But I do know that the day
I said to him, the day after my birthday, when
I said I can't live like this anymore, he went
out and he put and he found an apartment and
sign the application or whatever. And so for those two
(32:55):
months he acted like nothing was wrong. We live no,
And that's what they do too. They will gaslight you
and then they'll turn around two minutes later like, hey, hun,
let's what do you want for dinner? Like and so
psychotic it is, and guess what you're We're left to
be going. Am I going crazy?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
We think it's us? But you start to do yes,
what's wrong with me?
Speaker 6 (33:19):
Yes? Exactly. And so but he led me to believe
that he had found it that day. And we all
know in the market, and this is a couple of
years ago, you can't just sign an apple and sign.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
A lease that day.
Speaker 6 (33:31):
They have to do a background and application. So he
had signed a twelve month lease. He had already bought
all his furniture, he had already gotten paint and was
going to color the you know whatever.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
The walls with what money.
Speaker 6 (33:47):
But well, he got money while he was living with
He actually made money living with me, not from me either.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Because she paid all the house. Yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 6 (33:55):
That's I won't go into how he made the money
because that's that's that's an that's yeah, that's his business.
But so he he came to me and he said,
I'm leaving, and I said when. And literally in a
couple of days, he was going to get the keys
to the apartment and then he started packing, unpacking, you know,
(34:16):
this little stuff he had, and then the movers were
coming on a Friday, and he was coming home every
day at the end of the moving and painting and
getting the key and coming back and going, hey, Han,
you know, you want to watch our show and I'll
cook dinner and I'll build a fire like nothing. It
was psychotic, and I would go into my closet and
(34:38):
I would break down and I'm crying and I'm because
you're messed up. You're literally so confused and so messed up.
And then I would pull myself together and come back
out and sit down and we'd be having dinner and
it was just you guys. It was so bizarre, and
all my friends and my family were going kick him out.
(34:59):
Why you're letting him come back? Because he wanted to
wait till his furniture got into his apartment. He did
before he left, so he had furniture in a bed
to sleep and that was going to take four days.
But I kept saying, I can't that's my husband. I
can't just kick him out now.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Okay, wait, yes, somebody listening or watching right now is like,
oh my god, this is Tom. I'm with this person.
I'm with one of these people. What is the first
thing this person should do?
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Start to disconnect?
Speaker 6 (35:35):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I mean like no tonight, Like what can they do
tonight to like stop this nonsense? Well, you stop this
person from ruining their lives.
Speaker 6 (35:45):
You can't stop the person. You can only control what
you do.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Correct.
Speaker 6 (35:50):
You have to start making the decision now. If this
sounds like your situation, you need to start making plans.
If you're living together, to get out. If you're dating them,
leave and by the way, go no contact, no contact,
right because they will mine didn't, but they will make
(36:11):
your life miserable.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Oh yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (36:16):
And as far as communicating with them and any Again,
I'm not a therapist, but any therapist will tell you
that you just answer if they you don't get into
any conflict with them.
Speaker 5 (36:28):
Okay, is the worst thing you can say to them, Yeah,
because it drives them crazy if you just go okay.
Speaker 6 (36:35):
Yeah, but that's what you're we're told to do. Though,
by the way, that's how you communicate to them. You
don't engage in a conversation. You'll never win, ever win,
because the minute you disagree with them, you will see
that smile fade and that mass come off, and the
real them is what you're seeing.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
And you will be told the most vicious things that
anybody has ever said to anybody.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
And they do not care if you do engage.
Speaker 5 (37:05):
Oh, if you engage, or they'll do it to spark
an argument, yes, you know, they'll they'll tell you you're
a horrible mother or a horrible housekeeper, you know.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Okay, So somebody who's on a dating app me for example,
which I haven't looked at in like six months, but whatever,
we're not going to get into that. Okay, what are
the first couple of signs to watch for to like,
before I get into deep.
Speaker 6 (37:33):
So I always because I do coach and mentor young
people and also people my age, because even though there's
a lot of similarities, so there's a lot of differences.
Because when you're older, you don't want to spend the
rest of your life alone. You want to partner. So
what is it You get desperate and you'll like settle
(37:53):
for anyone, and when you do that, you get into trouble.
I always tell young people and older people you can't
tell off of a dating site at all. What you
have to do is you ask them, You talk to them, engage,
ask them questions, not on text, have a phone conversation,
or meet them for coffee, not a girl house of wine,
(38:13):
meet them for coffee. And I always say you silo
your questions. The first set of questions should be tell
me about where you were born, tell me about your parents,
tell me about your siblings. What's your relationship with your
parents' big one. It's a big one because that's where
the childhood trauma, that's where it all comes from. So
you need to make sure when they say I hated
(38:35):
my mom or I had you know I was abused
or I was abandoned. You know what, run yep.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Even though like your heart wants to say, oh, I
want to comfort you.
Speaker 6 (38:48):
Because of that, that's the EmPATH in you, that's the
EmPATH in us. We want to help people, we want
to fix them. You can't fix them, no, So you
got to be careful on the dating apps because you're
not going to know until you actually have that conversation.
But ask that set of questions first. I don't care
what you do for a living. I don't care what
(39:10):
car you drive, how much money you make. I want
to know about your childhood. I want to know about
your faith. I want to know if their values aligned
with mine. I want to know about that. I don't
All the rest of the stuff comes in silo number
two and then silo number three.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I then love bombing is another one I've heard is
a big red flag right brought off the bat for
many reasons, right.
Speaker 6 (39:31):
Off the bad love bombing, because that's always say they
get you in their web through web love bombing. Once
they get you in the web, they use you, they
abuse you, they destroy you, and then they leave you
and they leave you broken. And whether it's ten months
like mine, thirty years like a lot of people, fifteen years, whatever,
(39:53):
that looks like it's very, very damaging.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
It's so damaging, yase.
Speaker 5 (39:58):
Sometimes on the receiving end, you just get to the point,
especially if there's nothing tying you in. You don't have
a pet together or kids, or real estate or bank
accounts or anything, you just completely lose interest.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
And that's how I was.
Speaker 5 (40:16):
I wasn't married to this person or anything, and I
was just like, I'm just done.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
You disengage, Yeah, I just completely disengage in.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
It was the best thing I ever did.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Yes, it wasn't easy.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
It was not easy.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
No, and you went through a lot of pain.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
It was a lame nightmare.
Speaker 4 (40:35):
And it was mainly things that were said, you know
after you left.
Speaker 6 (40:39):
Oh yeah, oh they smear you. Yeah, they smear It's
a smear campaign. It's part of their whole, it's part
of the disorder. It's part of their journey. And you
have to but you can't listen to it. You can't ruminate, right,
and you just you can't listen to it. And the
sad thing is is that people probably thought he was
such a great guy on the outside, right uh yeah,
(41:03):
yeah yeah, And so nobody is going to believe that
he is the one projecting all that stuff on you
when it's really them.
Speaker 5 (41:11):
Until they see the text messages, until they're like.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Smokes, okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Another thing that you kind of touched on. And I
don't know if you ever felt this, but our guts
don't lie.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
I felt it just like.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
We just ignore it, yeah, ign because we're having fun
and they think that we think that they love us,
and it feels great to be loved.
Speaker 6 (41:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:39):
We know when you brought up a great point, Karen,
because in the initial you know, like honeymoon stage, where
you're getting to know somebody you're not you're not sure
what kind of questions to ask, and I did not
ask those questions. Like we talked about our families and stuff,
and I was very blessed that I had a fantastic
relationship with my parents and so I was very very lucky,
(42:04):
and I we touched on it, but then it was
the you know, I'm mad at you because you didn't
ask me enough questions, and I'm like, okay, so then
you start to ask and that's what we were talking
about earlier, and then it was like, well, I don't
want to talk about it now, and it's like, oh crap, okay, right.
Speaker 6 (42:19):
And then you're walking on eggshells around them all the time.
You're walking on eggs shells, and oh, my gosh, I
and then and then you get to the point where
you don't even engage with them because you are afraid
of oh for shure, of the ramifications of just having
a normal conversation, of just being in a normal relationship.
But there's nothing normal about being in any relationship with
(42:43):
the narcissists.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
And you never ever know what's going to set them off. Right,
it could be.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Right, you know, wow, okay, talk about your rise with Karen? Yes,
So how can people attend? How can people see you
speak like? Talk about that? Right?
Speaker 6 (43:03):
So, after I got out, after he left, right, and
I just I was broke, and you know, you're not
thinking properly.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Your whole your whole.
Speaker 6 (43:17):
Body is in this chaotic state, right, You're shaking, You
can't even think, and it's like you're the earth underneath
you is not steady at all. So I had to,
you know, I started talking with therapists. I haven't went
away for a month because he lived in my house.
I didn't want to be in my house. I love
my house. I've been there forever. I raised my kid
(43:37):
there and I just wanted to sell it. I didn't
even want to live there. It just was it was tainted, now,
you know. So I left. I left by myself for
a month to Italy and I rented a villa out
there to heal, because to be the Tuscan Valley is
just so calm and serene, and I thought that would
(43:59):
really helping the healing. And it did a couple of things.
It was I've never traveled abroad by myself, and it
was let me tell you, for all of you who
want to do that, it's scary, but it's empowering. It
is so empowering. So I flew there. I stayed there
for a month, no TV because it's all Italian. I
(44:19):
don't speak Italian, so you're there just with your thoughts.
And I walked five and six hours just because I
got lost, not because I wanted to, and just trying
to just let your body calm down. And when I
got home, I saged the house, I sprinkled holy water,
I changed up a few things. So I started to
just to get back into my groove. But it took
(44:41):
a long time for the healing to really and then
I went into therapy and I'm a true believer in
turning in adversity being your currency. And what I mean
about that is turning pain into your purpose.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
What was meant.
Speaker 6 (45:01):
To break you will will then will empower you. And
that's why I want it. I've always been one of
my love languages is service to others. So I've had
other adversities in my life that that I have talked
about and not relating to this at all. But once
I get through them and I heal, I always want
(45:22):
to give back and share my experiences with others so
that they can either learn or from from what I
did and not to do it, or they can be
inspired knowing that whatever you go through, sure that you
will be You're going to be okay, but you have
to go through the grieving process. Whatever the adversity is.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
In this case, through is through, and.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
It's definitely a form of abuse.
Speaker 6 (45:51):
I'm sorry to no, No, that's okay, it absolutely is.
But you have to go through it without numbing yourself
or you're going to delay your healing. So I purposely
didn't do I didn't want you know, people were saying,
have a glass of wine, take a hot bath. Oh
my god, that's the last thing I could do. I
couldn't sit still. My body was like just all every
(46:11):
cell was just active.
Speaker 4 (46:13):
And so being tasered four that's eric.
Speaker 6 (46:17):
That's a great way to explain. It's like you're being
tasered twenty four hours a.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Day, never know when that next jolta is.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Gonna exactly if somebody really need you now, Like is
there waiting to get a hold of you, Like, okay,
where can they find you?
Speaker 6 (46:33):
You can find me on Rise with Karen, on Instagram
and on Facebook. And I started Rise And it's actually
an acronym and I always have to because I've had
different acronim names for it to be honest with you,
because I've had so many people say, oh no, this
is what it should be, this is what it should be.
But at the end of the day, Rise is for ours,
for resurrection. You're resurrected from ashes, right, So I was
(46:56):
resurrected from ashes because you're broken. I is inspiration. I
want to give inspiration to others who have been through
in this case a narcissistic or in a narcissic relationship.
The S is for a survivor. We're survivors, we're not victims.
We're survivors. And the E is for empowerment, because once
you get through all of this, you're empowered. You get yourself,
(47:19):
you have self love again, you know your value, and
we allowed somebody to take all of that away from us.
And once you get through all this, you realize that
it just empowers you that much more. And I'm telling
you what. I'm an example, and we all have different stories,
in different levels of narcissistic abuse. Sure, and some it's easier.
(47:41):
I wasn't you know. We had no kids together, we
didn't have property together. It was pretty much a clean
break and it was ten months. Others not so lucky.
But I say this, no matter how entrenched you are,
and I have somebody very close to me who is
in the situation, I mean very family member, never lose hope.
Never think that you are stuck. Never think that, oh
(48:03):
my god, I want to lose everything. I'm going to
be living under a bridge. Live under the bridge. I'll
bring your blankets. Get away from these dangerous, dangerous people.
Speaker 5 (48:13):
And know one thing they are never going to change
for somebody else. And I think that's why a lot
of people stay in those relationships is because they think
God if I can, if I could just change this
tweak this little thing about them, right, they will if
they move on from you to another source, not source
(48:34):
of supply, they are never going to change for that person.
They will be grandiose and charming because they are. And
then when the mask falls off, it really makes a
thd and that person will be exactly a mirror image
of what you were one.
Speaker 6 (48:53):
And when that mask fell off for me, and when
it falls off, the person that you thought you were
in love with or thought you married never existed, never existed.
It was a mask. And when that mask came off,
that was the that's the true person. So you I
married somebody I didn't even know. I didn't marry the
(49:14):
person that I divorced.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
Yeah, okay, rise with Karen Instagram, Facebook. You're gonna where
can we see your ted talk eventually after you do.
Speaker 6 (49:25):
It, after I do it, so I'll be posting that
on that excellent.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (49:30):
And then I'm also going to be attending a woman's
retreat next week in the Sequoias and they're women from
all over the country and.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
It's women go to that if they want to.
Speaker 6 (49:40):
Well, it's limited, so it's it's closed now you do.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
That again, she will do it again.
Speaker 6 (49:47):
Okay, so she's she will do it. She does it
every single year. I'm going to go and I'm excited
to go. I'm going to learn from all these women.
We're going to inspire each other. We all have different stories.
And it's just not on narcissism, right, it's on it's
on our relationships, it's on finances, it's on our marriage,
it's it's on our businesses. So I am confident that
(50:08):
I'm gonna come back with some even more great inspiration
that I'll be able to share too, and it will
be posted to on my Instagram, all the different pictures
and and the some of the sessions and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Excellent. Okay, Well, you know what I think we do
need to and this program we have Eric, you have
your double D Well, we'll do that for Thursday. And Karen,
I can't thank you enough for being on with us.
I knew there are people watching and listening that are
in this situation, and I knew by having you on,
(50:44):
You're going to give sobody hope. You're going to help
if it's just one person get out of this situation.
And again, your gut never lies your got never lies.
You're just listened to your gut. Don't be scared to
listen to your gut, because talking.
Speaker 6 (51:00):
To you don't make excuses about your gut.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Eat not a sign of weakness.
Speaker 5 (51:04):
No, I don't know if you've experienced this, but it's
always been around, maybe not as in the forefront as
it is now. But I think a lot of it
also has to do with not only the way that
you were brought up, but now people are so much
more antisocial, Like kids don't go outside. Everybody's attached to
(51:25):
a device or and it's so much easier to just
be mean. And then love is so much stronger than hate.
And so I think when you're seeing these gen zers
and the millennials and stuff come up, there's definitely been
a rise in it because it's so easy to just
(51:48):
be hurtful and nasty. And you know, you see these
kids that get awards for.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
What what did you do?
Speaker 1 (51:54):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (51:54):
Well, we have to make everything equal, right, everybody gets
an award.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
A participation award, everybody, you know.
Speaker 5 (52:02):
So, yeah, don't get me on myself, you and.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
Later on, I don't think it's don't condemn to generations, please, Well,
it's we are. Gen X also has their share of
narciss of course, yes, I mean big time. So anyway,
thank you so much. At the end of our program,
we do it. The end of our show, we do
(52:29):
a little goodbye phrase and I'll do it first, then
if you would do it, and then Eric doesn't. We
close out and we say, Okay, thank you so much
for being on. And I know you've helped somebody tonight,
So thank you.
Speaker 6 (52:39):
Thank you guys for having me. And I hope if
I've just inspired one person to kind of think about
your relationship, if you feel some of these characters characteristics,
if you feel your gut and something's not right, don't
overthink it, don't second guess it, just leave.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
And with that, love your podcast, m love your podcast.
Love your podcast, Love you, my sweet babies, and bye everybody.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
Bye,
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