July 14, 2026 • 42 mins
In the third hour, Dick Fain and Hugh Millen discuss a possible promotion-relegation model for college football, discuss how NFL coaches and executives ranked various Seahawks at their position according to an ESPN poll, plus the NFL Top 100 player poll, then listen and react to some audio clips on both sides of the “Fire Dan Wilson” debate.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yo Jackson, get all these.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Little bullet points that when I think of something that
I want to talk to you about, I just write
them down so I don't forget him, because at fifty
two years of age, you'll get there. You just you'll
think of something.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
We all have things that are like no, literally we'll
forget it in forty five seconds.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
It will go off to the ether.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
So I always just write notes on my phone as
soon as I as soon as I think about it.
And one of the notes I've had on there for
literally like three weeks was what John just brought what
we just brought up with John there that whole like
Wrexom model pro Rell in England like you got you
got Ryan Reynolds buying up Wrexham and building them up
(01:05):
and paying their players and getting them through the fourth
Division and the third Division and moving moving them up,
and I'm like, that is something that could happen here, Hugh,
And I'm wondering if is.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
That a good thing? Twofold question?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Two part question, is it a good thing if teams
were able to raise and lower their divisions like they
do in Europe? And the second part of that question
is is it a good thing if it's just because
of money? Like if the only reason that any school
can go from FCS to FBS Small Division to FBS
(01:43):
Big Division is just if they just have one dude
that comes in and says, I'm worth ten billion dollars,
I'm gonna put one billion of that into this program
over the next thirty years and just turn it into
a powerhouse. Are those two things good for the sport?
Speaker 5 (01:59):
Yeah? Yeah, jack Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Jackson can can have a take time as well after
you're done.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Yeah, well, I would just start and say that they
answered all your questions. Is money money eventually? And I
think it's happening more and more, certainly in the college
space where there used to be these kind of now
deemed ethereal topics about sports education and what have you
(02:27):
in the student athlete, and now it's just in the
courts of back this up. It's just they're the labor, right,
and so you're going to see increasingly individuals institutions are
going to act more and more with disregard to all
of those components and just being driven by money. And
(02:48):
we're experiencing that happen. And really, you know what, so
people by their nature are going to be moved by money,
motivated by money, and every time that it's challenged, the
courts are going to say, you can't not be motivated
by money. Essentially that's anti trust. So I think that
(03:08):
the climate is there, the acceptance is there. It's whether
or not somebody's gonna step forward. But in principle, yeah,
I mean think of Jim Morrow, you know, our our
former Husky, former seat coach. He's at Colorado State right now.
So they've got a beautiful forty thousand seat stadium phenomena,
and in theory they could be one of them, right
(03:30):
that they could throw up a second deck on that stadium,
turn it into seventy thousand. And you know, they've got
just as much resources as many other top schools in
terms of the region, what have you, and Fort Collins, Colorado.
So in theory it could and as John Wilner said,
(03:51):
you know Texas Tech. Of course they're at a higher
conference now, but they're starting to kind of resemble what
you're describing.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yeah, Jackson, what do you think. I mean, you've been
following relegation and promotion in soccer for a long long time,
and so this is something that has been talked about
for a few years. I've always been a proponent of
I think you've always been a proponent of it. But
I do I do worry a little bit about if
it just becomes a money issue, you know, where it's
just the teams with the biggest whales get to be
(04:20):
in the bigger leagues and if you don't have won,
you're screwed.
Speaker 5 (04:23):
And that's kind of what Europe is, right.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
I mean, you get a club like Wrexham, and I'm
sure there's a lot of people who have just heard
or even seen the Welcome to Wrexham show. When you
get an influx of money and then you buy better play.
There was an enormous controversy really around Global soccer when
they were when Reynolds and was it Nccaheney. I think
when they bought into Wrexham, they started their salary for
(04:46):
their team just blew every team in their league out
of the water when they were in the fourth division.
At the time it was it really was viewed from
the soccer world is completely unfair. Of how is this
one team who's competing against this kind of chump competition
allowed to spend this much and have the players who
play at the second division instead of the fourth division.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
This is the only play that way for one year, right,
and then they'll be out of the league and they
don't have to worry about it.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
And then after the third division they bought more new players.
They again spent more than anybody else in the third division,
and now they're in the second division, and now they're
on finally equal spending because the ownership level is at
the spending level comparative to where they are playing. So
my thought is good, if a team has an owner
(05:34):
who wants to invest in the team, then they should
be playing at the level where other owners are investing.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
That's a good thing.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
So if you have in college football a third division
school in this theoretical model who get big money in there, congratulations,
you should be playing at the level in which other
big money people are and lee it does is Hughes
so accurately said it comes down to money. But wellcome
to the United States, ladies and gentlemen, I mean, welcome
(06:03):
to pro sports on the global scalable. It all comes
back to money. Manchester City, that's oil money. They win,
they get a trouble. They set insane numbers in the
English Premier League and global soccer world. They win everything
they can possibly win because they spend more than anybody,
and it's oil money.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
But guess what, that's the reality of the world.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
You spend more, you buy better talent, you win more,
you get the trophies.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
End of story.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
Yes, but there's a big asterisk there because while the
English Premier League is at about seven point seven billion
in revenues, the NFL is at twenty three billion. They
are essentially triple so the most successful sports league and
baseball and basketball are in the fourteen fifteen. So NFL
(06:50):
has not surprisingly dwarfs not just all American sports, all
world sports in terms of the leagues. And they actually
conduct their business in a way that's that's the aberration.
They conduct their business in a way where they are
sharing and they are they have not just a salary cap,
(07:11):
but they have a salary cap floor. They split the
TV revenue, those enormous TV revenues are split one thirty second.
Licensing revenue revenue split one thirty second. Even the gate
sixty for the home team, forty for the visiting team.
You know, you got to get down to some you know,
(07:31):
the luxury suite revenues before you really find any difference.
So so in essence that that concept is sharing pervades
the NFL and every overture that we see coming from
college football in terms of restructuring. They are as polar
(07:51):
opposite from the NFL in their ideology as they could
possibly be. My earlier response, Dick to you, was was
about in theory, could one school? I mentioned Colorado State?
It could be a dozens more right, But what what
you have? You still have the the blue bloods are
going to have to agree to this. And the people
(08:14):
have the power, like we can't even see them getting
along and and and again preventing intra conference strife, and
and and Ohio State and Michigan are determined to put
Washington on a second tier in the Big ten and
have Washington have less revenue and and their their explanation
is that, hey, we're the sexy sexy brand. We're the
(08:37):
ones who are driving the eyeballs and the revenue. Therefore
we should have a greater share on some level. That
makes sense. And of course Oregon's trying to be in
the group with Michigan and Ohio State and not in
the group with Washington. So we have all of these issues.
Everybody acting that they're in their own what they deem
rational self interest and those who have the power ain't
(08:59):
gonna give it up, right, Like, how are they going
to concede to a model a structure where where they
could possibly be relegated to a scenario where they're getting
less revenue. That's that's not the models that we've we've seen.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
But let's say let's say you've got this big Fish
super League and there might be some schools that don't
want to participate in that are currently in the Big
twelve or is it in the in the Big ten
and the SEC Northwestern, for example, Northwestern is like, we
don't want to.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Be in the super League? Why would we want to
be in the super League? And yeah, right, but how
much is it going to cost us to be in
the super League?
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Like what's the cost of being in that super League.
How much do we have to invest in a football
program in money that we don't have in alumni that
doesn't care, Like, do you think Northwestern's alumni most of
them want to be in a super league league?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I mean, I think most of Washington's probably regions.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Ye, well, the border regions might want them to be
in the super League. When they see what the revenue
they're getting sixty million from the Big Ten and now
all of a sudden, the new model and the TV
contracts mean they're bringing in two hundred million, they'll send
there say we can play in that party.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
If they can, I mean, then then you'll have Then
then you'll still have them being the losingest team in
the super League, like they're the losingest team in the
Big Ten.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
And maybe you won't have to worry.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
About Washington dropping down in a super league because they'll
still be the Mississippi States and the Northwesterns and the
Marylands and the bottom of the Kentucky's and the bottoms
of these SEC schools and and Big ten schools in
the super league.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
So you don't have well they all Washington being down there.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
Well they'll look and they'll say, hey, success for us
if we can, if we can hit you know, maybe
make a run at the playoffs one every seven or
eight years. Now that and whether or not they can
is different than their state of mind about whether they can.
And they say, wait a minute, if it that sounds
to me more like the NFL, gigantic revenues, and we
(11:06):
actually might be able to play in that league. But
the relegation part, you're gonna have to have the most
powerful agree to a scenario that likely is less advantageous
for them. And good luck, because that's not how they
have been klawn at everything. They have not acted like
(11:27):
the NFL. They have acted more like Notre Dame just
out for themselves, which Notre Dame has and and you know,
I say it. I think there's just this kind of
unique dichotomy that if you know, I have the feeling
that capitalism is the worst economic system on the globe
except for all the others, like I don't, I don't know.
(11:48):
So so there are certain tenets inherent in capitalism that
are anti what what what we see from the most
successful sports league in the world, which is the NFL,
and their their nature that is is actually you know,
uh thematically against capitalism.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Right right here.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
We gotta we gotta take a break. We got testimonials
coming up next. We've got a lot to get to.
We've had a great show thus far. We've had five
or six different topics we've been flipping through here.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
We'll hear what people have to say about him next
on ninety three point three KJRFM.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Can I can I give you before you get into
another segment, can give you a piece of breaking news
on this on the sphere that I think every Washington resident,
especially anywhere, really wants to know about what millionaire tacks.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
Guys.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
The US House just voted to passion measure to enact
year round daylight savings time across the country.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
That's the house. Though it's still got to go through
the set.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
And be kind of okay.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
But I mean, oh, I'm a huge It's it's a
it's a step in the direction, gentlemen. I'm a massive
it is where we are now year round massive fan
of daylight savings. I I hate darkness at when we
leave for Monday night football and it feels like it's midnight.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
No, well, I think so, just so long as you
just give a brief attention to the argument against that
in the winter, you've got young kids walking to bus
stops and what have you in the cold dark, right
and you know, listen, you know what, Jackson, I don't
(13:35):
do not disagree, but there there is at least an
argument to be made. You know that the winter months
and in the morning.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
There's a window, there's a window for me that like,
I don't I don't love how light it stays. Now, like,
there's there's a window for me where there's there's a
time where I kind of want want to be cozy
in the house and it's dark before I go to bed,
and it's like not even dark when I go I
mean I go to bed to like ten, it's still
there's still twilight out it and when I go to
(14:09):
bed every single night, so they're you.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Know that eight eight thirty. Yeah, it gets dark at
like eight.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
That's perfect, exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
That is absolutely perfect because then you have enough in
the afternoon early evening, you have the daylight, you can
be outside, you're still energetic, and then when it's time
for you to you know, sit down and have a
cocktail and watch a movie, it's dark. It is absolutely
come on, Senate, absolutely perfect, all right, So Hugh Earlier
we talked about we talked about Sam Donald and how
(14:38):
where he was voted amongst this ESPN poll that had
been having it for the like the last couple of weeks,
have been going position by position, asking front office staff,
coaches gms to rank their best players at each position.
And Sam Donald was just barely left off the top ten.
He was he was in the honorable mentioned category. So
I thought it'd be interesting to go back and see, Okay,
(15:01):
where's the rest of our Super Bowl champion Seahawks?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Right, where's the rest of this team? Are they? Are
they littered all over these lists?
Speaker 3 (15:10):
And the answer is unequivocally no, they're not littered all
over these lists. As a matter of fact, there's only
two lists that have not yet come out, and we
may have one, may have a player on both of them.
We certainly should have a player on the wide receiver list.
I don't think there's any question that Jackson Smith and
(15:31):
jakeba Ap player of the Offensive Player of the Year
will be on the list for wide receivers. And then
safety is the other one, and for my money, Julian
Love is the top.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
Ten safety in the NFL. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
I think he's certainly should be a top ten safety
in the in the NFL. Wouldn't wouldn't you think you
that Julian Love would be a top ten safety.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Yes. I don't think it's as slam dunk, no, but
I would think he's a top ten Yes. I've always
been a big Julian Love guy. I think he's earned
that and given you know his role in the back
end of the defense, quarterback in the secondary. Absolutely, I
think now you're gonna have to say, what is nick him?
(16:14):
And worry? Right now? He's he's He's been listed, you know,
drafted as a safety. Correct, So that's primarily how the
league thinks of him. Some people put a nickel by him.
I just think he's a sam linebacker, strong side linebacker
because that's what he played seven snaps as a as
(16:35):
a safety in the back night and he's still the
probably safety.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Even though we know that he's a top ten talent
in the league, he might not be seen right now
because remember this this poll is right now, he may
not be seen by the league executives as a top
ten player right now.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
I think he's made They're making a mistake. I think
that well, I would say, first of all, when you
look at at what he is able to do for Seattle,
his versatility, a couple of things. He had fifteen pass
defense last year. The excuse me, he was fifteenth. He
(17:13):
was both. He was fifteenth ranked fifteenth with fifteen pass defense.
The fourteen ahead of him were all cornerbacks, So he
was the number one non cornerbacks in terms of past
defense against whom did he get those past defense?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Well?
Speaker 5 (17:32):
In man to man he covered Davante Adams, who I
swear as a top five receiver I've ever seen at
the Lion scrimmage. Now he's not what he was when
he was twenty five, but he's still an incredible, incredibly
difficult cover in Mando man for a guy you know
in even wore a sixty three and a quarter to twenty,
(17:53):
and you've got to cover DeVante Adams, who literally is
a ghost. At the Lion scrimmage. He had a man
against Justin Jefferson, against Puka Nikoua. He had pass defense team.
Not only man, he had he had official stats of
pass defense against on those guys. So you've got that part.
And how about he had sixty two pass rest pressures
(18:15):
or attempts eighteen pressures twenty nine percent rate that was
second in the NFL UP for all players any position,
second highest pressure rate. So I think the versatility of
this guy to say that that you that you could
find me ten, call him outside linebackers, call him whatever
you want, that you can find me ten in the league,
(18:36):
that I would rather have on the Seahawks team. The
Nick Amman worry that ain't happening.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
No, I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
And I think when you look at this defense and
you say, ten years down the road.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
The Seattle Seahawks Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Championship defense of twenty twenty twenty five season, twenty twenty
six Super Bowl, who are your Hall of Fame candidates?
And he might end up being the number one name
on the list. I would say him and Devin Witherspoon
probably are one to two as far as names on
the list of Hall of Fame candidates. And let's get
(19:08):
to Devin Witherspoon next.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
Yeah, now that's putting a lot of courts carts in
front of a lot of horses. So, of course, but
but in an odd way, I think I think you're
probably right, far greater than any other player on that defense. Yeah. Yeah,
so let's see how it plays out. But no, I
do not believe there are ten outside linebackers that I
would rather have on the defense than nick him ONWA.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
So the quarnerback position, Devin Witherspoon got fourth up from
tenth last year. So some decent respect, very good respect
for Devin Witherspoon. He probably likes to see that because
he's up for a contract and he's going to be
want to paid as as one of the top four
cornerbacks in the NFL. He's probably gonna want to be
want to pay, want to be paid as the number
one quarterback at cornerback in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
But I'm not sure if he's going to get there.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
Yeah, I think that's about right. Look, there's enough notable
minus is on his season long grade sheet that that
I don't I wouldn't want to push him higher, but
I think that all things considered, you know, the ground
that he covers and the intensity, the competitiveness, and he
(20:15):
plays the versatility member he's a corner and then he
comes in in the slot as a dime. I think
number four. I like that spot for me. I think
that I think the GMS hit it about.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Right three honorable mentions before we get to the the
only Seahawks player ranked as the best at his position
the three honorable mentions. Byron Murphy was the first player
listed honorable mention at defensive tackle, Gray Zabel. Now they
combined gardens center in this so Grey's Abel is the
(20:51):
first name listed as honorable mention in the guards center category,
so there's a bigger group of players in that that
he is going up against. And then Charles Cross honorable
mention it offensive tackle, and I don't really have an
issue with any of those. I guess the only difference
I would see between Murphy's Murphy's Zabel versus Cross is
(21:13):
the arrow is absolutely pointed up on Byron Murphy and
Gray's Abel, and I would be shocked if both of
those guys weren't seen as top ten players next year
in this poll. Whereas Charles Cross is in my opinion,
maybe you disagree kind of about where he is. I
think he's about the tenth twelfth best offensive tackle in
(21:35):
the league, and he's probably gonna be that way for
the next two or three years.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
I think it takes a lot of tape study to
really rank them, and you know, I focus on the
SEAOC tape, but of course I focus on the SEAC
opponent tape when the Seawks are on defense, so I've
seen a fair amount of left tackles. My gut would
be this that Byron Murphy of those three is the
one who you want to say somebody got screwed in
(22:01):
that or would be the most the highest rank of
the honorable mentions. In my opinion, it would be Biron Murphy.
I mean, I could make a case of Biern Murphy's
a top sixty seven defensive tackle that That's just kind
of my hunch about it. Charles Cross, it kind of
depends on how you like your steak, because I think
(22:23):
that he does a good job of preventing the man
that he's blocking from getting to the quarterback and a
decent job of moving in the run game. What I
don't like about his game is that I think that
he sets up too deep, and while he he wins
(22:43):
most bull rushes because he's good, I do think his
core strength causes him to get backed up into the
quarterback too often. If you're playing quarterback for the Seattle
Seahawks with Charles Cross as your left tackle. You just
pencil in you're going to have several dozen pass attempts,
you know, if not pushing you know, into almost triple digits,
(23:05):
but you're gonna have scores of pass attempts where the
left tackles in your lap and you're just gonna have
to be oblivious to it and you might break your
thumb on on Charles Cross's helmet. In any given game,
you just kind of hope it's not this week. So
So again does a good job. I just don't like
where he does his good job because he does his
(23:26):
good job too far far scrimmage gotcha and too close
to the quarterback Gray's abel. I think there was some
some some up and downs there. So I think that's
more of a top twenty guard pick, you know. And
probably a lot of of of those gms and coaches
and and and scouts they are aware of Seattle's futured
(23:50):
run offense that kind of ignited for the last six
weeks of the year, and it's been bad for years,
and so I think that there's probably like, well, the
meaningful change they had was they took the eighteenth pick
and they took used it on Gray's abel. So I
kind of get that, but I would say Murphy is
the guy of those three that's the closest to being
(24:12):
at or near the top.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
And then we get to the number one guy, the
only guy ranked number one on these lists that is
a Seattle Seahawk. And the scouts and the execs of
the NFL think that either the Seattle Seahawk interior of
their defensive line is the best or the Philadelphia Eagles
interior of their defensive line is best. Because they ranked
(24:34):
Jalen Carter at three, and they ranked Jordan Davis at ten,
and we already know they ranked Byron Murphy at eleven,
and they ranked Leonard Williams at number one, And I
guess I was a little.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Bit surprised to see that.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Not that I don't think Leonard Williams is a great
impactful player. I guess I would just never see him
as I just never saw him as the best interior
defensive line. I'm in football, But hey, who am I
to argue with what he did and what that defensive
line did last year?
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Yeah, because you think of okay, you got Chris Johnson
for the Chiefs and Aaron Darnold. Like if you think
in recent years just this decade, oh wreckers, the best
defensive tackles have had more of an impact on the
game than Leonard Williams. So I think they.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Were all first the first ballot Hall of famers we've
had in the last five ten years.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
If you said, go argue in front of this collection
that Byron Murphy is a better player than Leonard Williams,
I don't think that I would be, you know, devoid
of any material to make that argument. I'm not saying
that I would choose to make that argument, but there's
that argument is there to be made in terms of
(25:47):
just how you impact the defense. So I think Murphy
ought to be around five or six, and you know,
to be around five or six, you know. And I
haven't looked at enough of them, I know that to
your point, and I agree with it. I think that, uh,
it seems like a guy should just be more impactful.
(26:08):
But he's damn good and I'm really glad he's ours
and I like his personality, I like his leadership, I
like you know, how he's embraced he I like everything
about Leonard Williams. So so we can we can like, well,
we can love Leonard Williams and if we want to
call it sports love and still kind of raise an
eyebrow goes, But is he the number one?
Speaker 6 (26:33):
You know?
Speaker 5 (26:33):
So at an event. These things are fun though, they're
good for July. Yeah, coffee and beer talk.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
It's coffee and beer talk July.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
We've we've spent a lot of time on some other
things today. And and the the other list that I
think takes way too long now, the the top one
hundred as voted by the players that's come out for
a few years, right and now there it's just interminably long.
They released like three a day, or not even three
guys a day. It's like it's just it's lasting all
(27:05):
summer long. They've only gotten from one hundred to sixty
seven thus.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Far, counting down. And they've been doing this for well
over a month.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
And what's interesting is only one Seahawk, one player from
the Super Bowl championship team, and that was at ninety seven.
Ernest Jones is the only Seattle Seahawk thus far.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
As voted by the players. Now, you would imagine, so
I wrote a little list, and we've talked about a
lot of these guys already that I feel will be
or should be on this list, and we've talked about
basically all of them. The guy that I had listed,
a guy that I thought should already be on there
is Julian Love. I kind of thought just kind of
(27:50):
ballpark based upon what he did last year, where he
was ranked last year. I thought he should be, you know,
in the nineties somewhere. He hasn't appeared yet, so maybe
he's either out or he makes a huge jump. Charles
Cross I thought he probably should have already been in
that list of top one hundred. Maybe he's not gonna
make it. If he's if he's we're already up to
(28:12):
sixty seven, he might not make it. The guys that
should definitely make it. Sam Donald be very interesting to see.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
How high he is.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
He was seventy two last year. He's clearly not going
to go from seventy two to out of the poll.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
After winning the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
So Sam Donald's going to be somewhere coming up here
soon in the.
Speaker 5 (28:32):
Fifties or sixty quarterback was he's so he's good question
overall player, seventy second overall back or ahead of him?
Because I would look at at first of all the
players know now, yes, sometimes the players may I'll tell
you right, maybe maybe biased about it or what have you,
(28:55):
or you know, there's jealousies and maybe they don't always
submit and and so in that sense, there may be
some minor abuses of the poll, but they know who's
the toughest to play. You know, if you have he
has raised abel fourteenth toughest defensive tax who's a fourteenth.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Quarter fourteenth quarterback last year behind guys like Jordan Love
and Bone Knicks and C. J.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Stroud and Baker Mayfield.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Well, not surprisingly, I you know, it's what you wanted
to weigh. That last game against Detroit in Week eighteen
and the LA game red zone, particularly the low road
red zone. He was awful and that was an epic
regular season game. I think in the history of the
NFL you'd never had two teams playing the regular season
(29:45):
with as many wins. Now, of course that's in the
seventeen game ear which has been brief but recent. But yeah,
it will be interesting to see if the players put
him in the top ten. I think he's a top ten.
I think you think he's a tough He's right there.
I think he's right right there. The highest argument you
could ever make, like like stretch yourself, like like you know,
(30:08):
like on Twister, that old game of twister, to towort
your body. The highest you could ever say is fifth,
and that would be a big time stretch, you know,
because that puts you behind Josh Allen, the Homes, Michic Holmes, Stafford,
Matthew Stafford, and Burrow. Yes, so the highest, and of
course Lamar might be number five, but I think that
(30:29):
somewhere in the seven eight is range is probably the
most fair.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
So the other guys that will be in there, JSN
I think he should be in the top twenty Spoon,
I think he should be in the top twenty five thirty,
and then Leonard Williams.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
Leonard Williams was ninety nine last year. So it'll be
interesting how far Leonard Williams bumps up. You know, he'll
proby be somewhere in the middle of the pack, you know,
fifties or early sixties in this, But it'll be interesting
to you if the players agree with the front office
five twenty two on ninety three point three kjr FM.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Right after this more Softian Dick with Hugh on ninety
three point three KJFM.
Speaker 7 (31:13):
This is Duke of Duke Seafood, And this hour is
brought to you by Duke Seafood. Why don't you make
it at Duke's night tonight. Reserve your table today at
dukeseafood dot com. Now back to Softy and Dick on
Sports Radio ninety three point three kjr FM.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
All Right, because it's so sunny out and I've been
in such a good mood all day, I've decided not
to talk about the Seattle Mariners until five thirty. I've
put it off for three hours, but I figure we
got to do a segment on our frustrating under five
hundred baseball team here as we're on All Star Tuesday.
The Mariners will play again in seventy two hours. They
(31:52):
will start the second half of the season. And Hugh,
We've got diametrically opposed opinions from two of our respect
baseball voices in the city. And I'm going to play
a cut from each one of those respected voices on
the status or the future of one Dan Wilson. And
we'll start with our morning show host, Chuck Powell.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
The manager's not getting the most out of the team,
and this is too important of a season. There's too
much at stake it's the fiftieth annivers we've never made
the World Series. We may have a lockout next year.
We can't let it end by missing the playoffs in
a year in which the American League is down like
never before. So I endorse a managerial change this morning. Officially,
(32:39):
I don't think they'll do it, but that's my statement
on a Monday morning. This is the fire Dan Wilson
Show on Chuck and Buck. And again I don't take
that lightly, but I think it's time. This team needs
a new boss, a new voice, and they need a shakeup.
They need to be reminded. You just can't play like
garbage not expect bad things to happen. And I'd like
(33:03):
to see it happen before we play another game. And
I know Chuck doesn't take that lightly.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Chuck has never been the Hey, fire this guy, get
rid of that guy like he has never been the
knee jerk shock jock sports radio show host. So that
coming from Chuck is you know that lands? That lands
for me?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Now?
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Alyssa and I yesterday had Bill Krueger on and Alissa
didn't ask Bill like should Dan be fired? But basically
was the question was directed at you know how much
culpability should Dan have for all these struggles that this
baseball team is having and Bill offered these extenuating circumstances.
Speaker 6 (33:47):
Dan, I think, has done everything in his power to
put this team in a position to win. He's been
positive with the players, He's taken all the slings and arrows.
There's been lots and lots of interesting conversations behind the
scenes that he tucked into himself. Okay, when it had
to do with things that had to do with the
craziness of the starting pitching staff and the craziness that
(34:09):
they tried to emplay on the team, which they did.
And honestly, I think there's four games right there that
they kicked away, four of them. So you might be
in a lot better shaving right now if you hadn't
decided to piggyback or play six man. And I don't
know what they're going to do with that going forward,
but he's pretty much had to swallow all that. And
you know, when you lean on right hand hitters that
weren't up the speed and didn't have good half, but
(34:32):
you're sort of committed to them, and he stuck behind him.
He stuck behind the players. That's what you hired him
to be, okay, and I think he's done an excellent
job in that regard. I think you're going to pay
dividends with players when you stay behind in and believe
in them in the long run, because they're good players.
They haven't been hundred percent. Now, should he be pointing
(34:53):
out things when guys are making the same mistake over
and over? Yes, the big leagues, you know you're making
base running mistake, you're making bad reads if you're not
hustling on plays. Yeah, I think he should let those
guys know that's not going to be tolerated. We don't
know what he says because he doesn't tell us a lot.
I think that in today's game, the manager is a foreman.
(35:17):
That's his job, right, make sure the players are positive,
make sure that there's communication, and you stand behind him,
and then you've basically followed the script that's being handed
to you by the front office.
Speaker 5 (35:30):
Hugh.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I like both arguments.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
I wish I could just jump on one side and
say this guy's right and this guy's wrong. And I
feel exactly like Chuck does. I'm as frustrated as Chuck is.
I never thought Dan Wilson should have been made the
permanent manager in the first place, and was shocked, and
everybody was listening to this show on this day knows
that Softie and I were Bill shocked that he was
(35:53):
named the permanent replacement on that day that Scott Servis
was fired. And yet Bill's points the lots of interesting
conversations behind the scenes. Bill knows things. Bill's very close
in that clubhouse, the poorly constructed roster from the right
hand side. The health certainly hasn't been one hundred percent.
(36:16):
You've had superstars go down for long stretches of time.
So and yet he's still talking about Dan being culpable
for certain things and Randy Roseerana being probably the most
recent where he just is not hustling the way he should.
So how do you how do you break down and
dissect what you just heard from from two guys a
(36:38):
no ball.
Speaker 5 (36:39):
Well, I just take it from a sports fan perspective.
You know, a seattleite that you know cared about the
Seattle Mariners, you know, going back to their first year
in the Kingdome. And I have to preface my comment
by saying this, Number One, I've known Bill Krueger a
long time. I consider him a friend, I I couldn't
(37:02):
have more respect for him as a as a person,
as an analyst. I think he really, really really knows
his stuff. He's sharp, and as you said, I absolutely
believe he's connected, No question, he alluded to it. You
can book that in a similar vein Chuck. You know
(37:22):
my twenty eight years on KJAR, I don't know any
you know, on air talk show host in this market
that has baseball knowledge that rises to the level of
analyst level. Yeah, right, I mean everybody. If you took
a poll of every all the on air guys and
the producers at kg are anonymous poll and one of
(37:47):
the questions was who at our station knows more baseball
than anybody else? That Chuck is gonna win in a landslide. Hell,
you guys have on him. You know here, Dave is
the you know quota quote, the franchise, you got your show.
You bring him on in an analyst role, yep, you
ask him analyst question. Yes, we do so. And I
(38:08):
think he's restrained enough that that he's not gonna just
you know, take that likely. I think that he puts
enormous weight on on what his voice says in this market.
So in some both of these guys are I'm stretching
my hands as high as I could, my respect for
both of them as high as they could be. So
I look and I and I say, first of all,
(38:31):
if you enjoy ripping on Dan on Dan Wilson, you know,
I almost kind of feel like shame on you. Yeah,
because he's a good enough hear and what he did
you know in his playing days, like it should bother
all of us, regardless of how you may can't you
may can't stand him as a manager, and you can't
(38:51):
wait to kick him out and and and it can't
come soon enough Friday night to get him never on
the Mariner's back. Like that's a fair take. It's a
baseball related take. But if you enjoy, you know, beating
up on the person Dan Wilson, I don't know. I
think Wilson's earned a lot more agreat you know, station
in this market.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
That's why it's so hard.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
It was a lot easier to uh, you know, to
call for the firing at Scott's service.
Speaker 5 (39:16):
So here's ultimately, sorry, with all the prefaces for me
as just one fan talking, Ultimately it comes down and
I say, if I had a lot of money that
made me nervous on the direction of the Mariners, like you,
Like you said, Okay, I got a I'm gonna forfeit
two years of my retirement income, whatever, whatever it is.
(39:39):
Pick something that makes you nervous. And and and then
you said, right there now, all of a sudden, the
fact that Dan Wilson would be my favorite, uh you know,
cousin at the at the family picnic, that's out the window.
I'm not thinking about Dan Wilson, thinking about your paycheck.
I'm thinking about the direction of the Seattle Mariner, and
(40:01):
I would ultimately land on Chuck's side. I think if
I was making the decision, I remember the Sonics in
seventy eight when they started five and seventeen and Lenny
Wilkins took them over, And you could have made the
same arguments about that team, Well, how much is a
coach really gonna have an impact? Well, they went to
(40:22):
the seventh game of the NBA Finals after a five
and seventeen start.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
And.
Speaker 5 (40:29):
Billy, you know, God bless him. If you listen to
all the things he said, the Mariners could be fifteen
games under five hundred and every reason he gave you, you
would cite as reasons to retain Dan Wilson, Well, how
many games below their expectations are you going to allow
it to go before you say sorry? Dan? Love you
(40:50):
like family, but we need to make a change. And
to me, you know the A Rose Arena play on
Friday night, I did not see it, and in fact,
I heard about it before I saw it, so I
had I just want to get that out there. But
even that, when I saw that play, I was I
(41:11):
was shocked. I was because I had an expectation this
must be pretty bad. And then I saw the play
and I was shot. You don't fire a guy for
one play. But I just feel like there's enough that
that is not going right that that Sometimes sometimes a
managerial change is is not really all entirely for for
(41:36):
defensible substance. Sometimes it's we got to shake things up right,
and and you you you're throwing ice water on the
cold ice water with the ice in it. By the
way that the uh that the players are like, whoa,
we just got we just got him fired, like pick up.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
And you can do that.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
So you do that in baseball, you can't do it
in football because it just tears down your entire structure.
The football coach is the entire structure of the team,
where in baseball it's not.
Speaker 5 (42:08):
I don't land strongly on that, I'm like barely over
the threshold. But if you have to make a decision
because binary yes or no, whose side are you on?
I'm narrowly favoring Chuck's side.
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Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yo Jackson, get all these.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Little bullet points that when I think of something that
I want to talk to you about, I just write
them down so I don't forget him, because at fifty
two years of age, you'll get there. You just you'll
think of something.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
We all have things that are like no, literally we'll
forget it in forty five seconds.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
It will go off to the ether.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
So I always just write notes on my phone as
soon as I as soon as I think about it.
And one of the notes I've had on there for
literally like three weeks was what John just brought what
we just brought up with John there that whole like
Wrexom model pro Rell in England like you got you
got Ryan Reynolds buying up Wrexham and building them up
(01:05):
and paying their players and getting them through the fourth
Division and the third Division and moving moving them up,
and I'm like, that is something that could happen here, Hugh,
And I'm wondering if is.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
That a good thing? Twofold question?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Two part question, is it a good thing if teams
were able to raise and lower their divisions like they
do in Europe? And the second part of that question
is is it a good thing if it's just because
of money? Like if the only reason that any school
can go from FCS to FBS Small Division to FBS
(01:43):
Big Division is just if they just have one dude
that comes in and says, I'm worth ten billion dollars,
I'm gonna put one billion of that into this program
over the next thirty years and just turn it into
a powerhouse. Are those two things good for the sport?
Speaker 5 (01:59):
Yeah? Yeah, jack Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Jackson can can have a take time as well after
you're done.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Yeah, well, I would just start and say that they
answered all your questions. Is money money eventually? And I
think it's happening more and more, certainly in the college
space where there used to be these kind of now
deemed ethereal topics about sports education and what have you
(02:27):
in the student athlete, and now it's just in the
courts of back this up. It's just they're the labor, right,
and so you're going to see increasingly individuals institutions are
going to act more and more with disregard to all
of those components and just being driven by money. And
(02:48):
we're experiencing that happen. And really, you know what, so
people by their nature are going to be moved by money,
motivated by money, and every time that it's challenged, the
courts are going to say, you can't not be motivated
by money. Essentially that's anti trust. So I think that
(03:08):
the climate is there, the acceptance is there. It's whether
or not somebody's gonna step forward. But in principle, yeah,
I mean think of Jim Morrow, you know, our our
former Husky, former seat coach. He's at Colorado State right now.
So they've got a beautiful forty thousand seat stadium phenomena,
and in theory they could be one of them, right
(03:30):
that they could throw up a second deck on that stadium,
turn it into seventy thousand. And you know, they've got
just as much resources as many other top schools in
terms of the region, what have you, and Fort Collins, Colorado.
So in theory it could and as John Wilner said,
(03:51):
you know Texas Tech. Of course they're at a higher
conference now, but they're starting to kind of resemble what
you're describing.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yeah, Jackson, what do you think. I mean, you've been
following relegation and promotion in soccer for a long long time,
and so this is something that has been talked about
for a few years. I've always been a proponent of
I think you've always been a proponent of it. But
I do I do worry a little bit about if
it just becomes a money issue, you know, where it's
just the teams with the biggest whales get to be
(04:20):
in the bigger leagues and if you don't have won,
you're screwed.
Speaker 5 (04:23):
And that's kind of what Europe is, right.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
I mean, you get a club like Wrexham, and I'm
sure there's a lot of people who have just heard
or even seen the Welcome to Wrexham show. When you
get an influx of money and then you buy better play.
There was an enormous controversy really around Global soccer when
they were when Reynolds and was it Nccaheney. I think
when they bought into Wrexham, they started their salary for
(04:46):
their team just blew every team in their league out
of the water when they were in the fourth division.
At the time it was it really was viewed from
the soccer world is completely unfair. Of how is this
one team who's competing against this kind of chump competition
allowed to spend this much and have the players who
play at the second division instead of the fourth division.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
This is the only play that way for one year, right,
and then they'll be out of the league and they
don't have to worry about it.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
And then after the third division they bought more new players.
They again spent more than anybody else in the third division,
and now they're in the second division, and now they're
on finally equal spending because the ownership level is at
the spending level comparative to where they are playing. So
my thought is good, if a team has an owner
(05:34):
who wants to invest in the team, then they should
be playing at the level where other owners are investing.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
That's a good thing.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
So if you have in college football a third division
school in this theoretical model who get big money in there, congratulations,
you should be playing at the level in which other
big money people are and lee it does is Hughes
so accurately said it comes down to money. But wellcome
to the United States, ladies and gentlemen, I mean, welcome
(06:03):
to pro sports on the global scalable. It all comes
back to money. Manchester City, that's oil money. They win,
they get a trouble. They set insane numbers in the
English Premier League and global soccer world. They win everything
they can possibly win because they spend more than anybody,
and it's oil money.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
But guess what, that's the reality of the world.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
You spend more, you buy better talent, you win more,
you get the trophies.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
End of story.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
Yes, but there's a big asterisk there because while the
English Premier League is at about seven point seven billion
in revenues, the NFL is at twenty three billion. They
are essentially triple so the most successful sports league and
baseball and basketball are in the fourteen fifteen. So NFL
(06:50):
has not surprisingly dwarfs not just all American sports, all
world sports in terms of the leagues. And they actually
conduct their business in a way that's that's the aberration.
They conduct their business in a way where they are
sharing and they are they have not just a salary cap,
(07:11):
but they have a salary cap floor. They split the
TV revenue, those enormous TV revenues are split one thirty second.
Licensing revenue revenue split one thirty second. Even the gate
sixty for the home team, forty for the visiting team.
You know, you got to get down to some you know,
(07:31):
the luxury suite revenues before you really find any difference.
So so in essence that that concept is sharing pervades
the NFL and every overture that we see coming from
college football in terms of restructuring. They are as polar
(07:51):
opposite from the NFL in their ideology as they could
possibly be. My earlier response, Dick to you, was was
about in theory, could one school? I mentioned Colorado State?
It could be a dozens more right, But what what
you have? You still have the the blue bloods are
going to have to agree to this. And the people
(08:14):
have the power, like we can't even see them getting
along and and and again preventing intra conference strife, and
and and Ohio State and Michigan are determined to put
Washington on a second tier in the Big ten and
have Washington have less revenue and and their their explanation
is that, hey, we're the sexy sexy brand. We're the
(08:37):
ones who are driving the eyeballs and the revenue. Therefore
we should have a greater share on some level. That
makes sense. And of course Oregon's trying to be in
the group with Michigan and Ohio State and not in
the group with Washington. So we have all of these issues.
Everybody acting that they're in their own what they deem
rational self interest and those who have the power ain't
(08:59):
gonna give it up, right, Like, how are they going
to concede to a model a structure where where they
could possibly be relegated to a scenario where they're getting
less revenue. That's that's not the models that we've we've seen.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
But let's say let's say you've got this big Fish
super League and there might be some schools that don't
want to participate in that are currently in the Big
twelve or is it in the in the Big ten
and the SEC Northwestern, for example, Northwestern is like, we
don't want to.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Be in the super League? Why would we want to
be in the super League? And yeah, right, but how
much is it going to cost us to be in
the super League?
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Like what's the cost of being in that super League.
How much do we have to invest in a football
program in money that we don't have in alumni that
doesn't care, Like, do you think Northwestern's alumni most of
them want to be in a super league league?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I mean, I think most of Washington's probably regions.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Ye, well, the border regions might want them to be
in the super League. When they see what the revenue
they're getting sixty million from the Big Ten and now
all of a sudden, the new model and the TV
contracts mean they're bringing in two hundred million, they'll send
there say we can play in that party.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
If they can, I mean, then then you'll have Then
then you'll still have them being the losingest team in
the super League, like they're the losingest team in the
Big Ten.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
And maybe you won't have to worry.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
About Washington dropping down in a super league because they'll
still be the Mississippi States and the Northwesterns and the
Marylands and the bottom of the Kentucky's and the bottoms
of these SEC schools and and Big ten schools in
the super league.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
So you don't have well they all Washington being down there.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
Well they'll look and they'll say, hey, success for us
if we can, if we can hit you know, maybe
make a run at the playoffs one every seven or
eight years. Now that and whether or not they can
is different than their state of mind about whether they can.
And they say, wait a minute, if it that sounds
to me more like the NFL, gigantic revenues, and we
(11:06):
actually might be able to play in that league. But
the relegation part, you're gonna have to have the most
powerful agree to a scenario that likely is less advantageous
for them. And good luck, because that's not how they
have been klawn at everything. They have not acted like
(11:27):
the NFL. They have acted more like Notre Dame just
out for themselves, which Notre Dame has and and you know,
I say it. I think there's just this kind of
unique dichotomy that if you know, I have the feeling
that capitalism is the worst economic system on the globe
except for all the others, like I don't, I don't know.
(11:48):
So so there are certain tenets inherent in capitalism that
are anti what what what we see from the most
successful sports league in the world, which is the NFL,
and their their nature that is is actually you know,
uh thematically against capitalism.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Right right here.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
We gotta we gotta take a break. We got testimonials
coming up next. We've got a lot to get to.
We've had a great show thus far. We've had five
or six different topics we've been flipping through here.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
We'll hear what people have to say about him next
on ninety three point three KJRFM.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Can I can I give you before you get into
another segment, can give you a piece of breaking news
on this on the sphere that I think every Washington resident,
especially anywhere, really wants to know about what millionaire tacks.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
Guys.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
The US House just voted to passion measure to enact
year round daylight savings time across the country.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
That's the house. Though it's still got to go through
the set.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
And be kind of okay.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
But I mean, oh, I'm a huge It's it's a
it's a step in the direction, gentlemen. I'm a massive
it is where we are now year round massive fan
of daylight savings. I I hate darkness at when we
leave for Monday night football and it feels like it's midnight.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
No, well, I think so, just so long as you
just give a brief attention to the argument against that
in the winter, you've got young kids walking to bus
stops and what have you in the cold dark, right
and you know, listen, you know what, Jackson, I don't
(13:35):
do not disagree, but there there is at least an
argument to be made. You know that the winter months
and in the morning.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
There's a window, there's a window for me that like,
I don't I don't love how light it stays. Now, like,
there's there's a window for me where there's there's a
time where I kind of want want to be cozy
in the house and it's dark before I go to bed,
and it's like not even dark when I go I
mean I go to bed to like ten, it's still
there's still twilight out it and when I go to
(14:09):
bed every single night, so they're you.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Know that eight eight thirty. Yeah, it gets dark at
like eight.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
That's perfect, exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
That is absolutely perfect because then you have enough in
the afternoon early evening, you have the daylight, you can
be outside, you're still energetic, and then when it's time
for you to you know, sit down and have a
cocktail and watch a movie, it's dark. It is absolutely
come on, Senate, absolutely perfect, all right, So Hugh Earlier
we talked about we talked about Sam Donald and how
(14:38):
where he was voted amongst this ESPN poll that had
been having it for the like the last couple of weeks,
have been going position by position, asking front office staff,
coaches gms to rank their best players at each position.
And Sam Donald was just barely left off the top ten.
He was he was in the honorable mentioned category. So
I thought it'd be interesting to go back and see, Okay,
(15:01):
where's the rest of our Super Bowl champion Seahawks?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Right, where's the rest of this team? Are they? Are
they littered all over these lists?
Speaker 3 (15:10):
And the answer is unequivocally no, they're not littered all
over these lists. As a matter of fact, there's only
two lists that have not yet come out, and we
may have one, may have a player on both of them.
We certainly should have a player on the wide receiver list.
I don't think there's any question that Jackson Smith and
(15:31):
jakeba Ap player of the Offensive Player of the Year
will be on the list for wide receivers. And then
safety is the other one, and for my money, Julian
Love is the top.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
Ten safety in the NFL. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
I think he's certainly should be a top ten safety
in the in the NFL. Wouldn't wouldn't you think you
that Julian Love would be a top ten safety.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Yes. I don't think it's as slam dunk, no, but
I would think he's a top ten Yes. I've always
been a big Julian Love guy. I think he's earned
that and given you know his role in the back
end of the defense, quarterback in the secondary. Absolutely, I
think now you're gonna have to say, what is nick him?
(16:14):
And worry? Right now? He's he's He's been listed, you know,
drafted as a safety. Correct, So that's primarily how the
league thinks of him. Some people put a nickel by him.
I just think he's a sam linebacker, strong side linebacker
because that's what he played seven snaps as a as
(16:35):
a safety in the back night and he's still the
probably safety.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Even though we know that he's a top ten talent
in the league, he might not be seen right now
because remember this this poll is right now, he may
not be seen by the league executives as a top
ten player right now.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
I think he's made They're making a mistake. I think
that well, I would say, first of all, when you
look at at what he is able to do for Seattle,
his versatility, a couple of things. He had fifteen pass
defense last year. The excuse me, he was fifteenth. He
(17:13):
was both. He was fifteenth ranked fifteenth with fifteen pass defense.
The fourteen ahead of him were all cornerbacks, So he
was the number one non cornerbacks in terms of past
defense against whom did he get those past defense?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Well?
Speaker 5 (17:32):
In man to man he covered Davante Adams, who I
swear as a top five receiver I've ever seen at
the Lion scrimmage. Now he's not what he was when
he was twenty five, but he's still an incredible, incredibly
difficult cover in Mando man for a guy you know
in even wore a sixty three and a quarter to twenty,
(17:53):
and you've got to cover DeVante Adams, who literally is
a ghost. At the Lion scrimmage. He had a man
against Justin Jefferson, against Puka Nikoua. He had pass defense team.
Not only man, he had he had official stats of
pass defense against on those guys. So you've got that part.
And how about he had sixty two pass rest pressures
(18:15):
or attempts eighteen pressures twenty nine percent rate that was
second in the NFL UP for all players any position,
second highest pressure rate. So I think the versatility of
this guy to say that that you that you could
find me ten, call him outside linebackers, call him whatever
you want, that you can find me ten in the league,
(18:36):
that I would rather have on the Seahawks team. The
Nick Amman worry that ain't happening.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
No, I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
And I think when you look at this defense and
you say, ten years down the road.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
The Seattle Seahawks Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Championship defense of twenty twenty twenty five season, twenty twenty
six Super Bowl, who are your Hall of Fame candidates?
And he might end up being the number one name
on the list. I would say him and Devin Witherspoon
probably are one to two as far as names on
the list of Hall of Fame candidates. And let's get
(19:08):
to Devin Witherspoon next.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
Yeah, now that's putting a lot of courts carts in
front of a lot of horses. So, of course, but
but in an odd way, I think I think you're
probably right, far greater than any other player on that defense. Yeah. Yeah,
so let's see how it plays out. But no, I
do not believe there are ten outside linebackers that I
would rather have on the defense than nick him ONWA.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
So the quarnerback position, Devin Witherspoon got fourth up from
tenth last year. So some decent respect, very good respect
for Devin Witherspoon. He probably likes to see that because
he's up for a contract and he's going to be
want to paid as as one of the top four
cornerbacks in the NFL. He's probably gonna want to be
want to pay, want to be paid as the number
one quarterback at cornerback in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
But I'm not sure if he's going to get there.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
Yeah, I think that's about right. Look, there's enough notable
minus is on his season long grade sheet that that
I don't I wouldn't want to push him higher, but
I think that all things considered, you know, the ground
that he covers and the intensity, the competitiveness, and he
(20:15):
plays the versatility member he's a corner and then he
comes in in the slot as a dime. I think
number four. I like that spot for me. I think
that I think the GMS hit it about.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Right three honorable mentions before we get to the the
only Seahawks player ranked as the best at his position
the three honorable mentions. Byron Murphy was the first player
listed honorable mention at defensive tackle, Gray Zabel. Now they
combined gardens center in this so Grey's Abel is the
(20:51):
first name listed as honorable mention in the guards center category,
so there's a bigger group of players in that that
he is going up against. And then Charles Cross honorable
mention it offensive tackle, and I don't really have an
issue with any of those. I guess the only difference
I would see between Murphy's Murphy's Zabel versus Cross is
(21:13):
the arrow is absolutely pointed up on Byron Murphy and
Gray's Abel, and I would be shocked if both of
those guys weren't seen as top ten players next year
in this poll. Whereas Charles Cross is in my opinion,
maybe you disagree kind of about where he is. I
think he's about the tenth twelfth best offensive tackle in
(21:35):
the league, and he's probably gonna be that way for
the next two or three years.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
I think it takes a lot of tape study to
really rank them, and you know, I focus on the
SEAOC tape, but of course I focus on the SEAC
opponent tape when the Seawks are on defense, so I've
seen a fair amount of left tackles. My gut would
be this that Byron Murphy of those three is the
one who you want to say somebody got screwed in
(22:01):
that or would be the most the highest rank of
the honorable mentions. In my opinion, it would be Biron Murphy.
I mean, I could make a case of Biern Murphy's
a top sixty seven defensive tackle that That's just kind
of my hunch about it. Charles Cross, it kind of
depends on how you like your steak, because I think
(22:23):
that he does a good job of preventing the man
that he's blocking from getting to the quarterback and a
decent job of moving in the run game. What I
don't like about his game is that I think that
he sets up too deep, and while he he wins
(22:43):
most bull rushes because he's good, I do think his
core strength causes him to get backed up into the
quarterback too often. If you're playing quarterback for the Seattle
Seahawks with Charles Cross as your left tackle. You just
pencil in you're going to have several dozen pass attempts,
you know, if not pushing you know, into almost triple digits,
(23:05):
but you're gonna have scores of pass attempts where the
left tackles in your lap and you're just gonna have
to be oblivious to it and you might break your
thumb on on Charles Cross's helmet. In any given game,
you just kind of hope it's not this week. So
So again does a good job. I just don't like
where he does his good job because he does his
(23:26):
good job too far far scrimmage gotcha and too close
to the quarterback Gray's abel. I think there was some
some some up and downs there. So I think that's
more of a top twenty guard pick, you know. And
probably a lot of of of those gms and coaches
and and and scouts they are aware of Seattle's futured
(23:50):
run offense that kind of ignited for the last six
weeks of the year, and it's been bad for years,
and so I think that there's probably like, well, the
meaningful change they had was they took the eighteenth pick
and they took used it on Gray's abel. So I
kind of get that, but I would say Murphy is
the guy of those three that's the closest to being
(24:12):
at or near the top.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
And then we get to the number one guy, the
only guy ranked number one on these lists that is
a Seattle Seahawk. And the scouts and the execs of
the NFL think that either the Seattle Seahawk interior of
their defensive line is the best or the Philadelphia Eagles
interior of their defensive line is best. Because they ranked
(24:34):
Jalen Carter at three, and they ranked Jordan Davis at ten,
and we already know they ranked Byron Murphy at eleven,
and they ranked Leonard Williams at number one, And I
guess I was a little.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Bit surprised to see that.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Not that I don't think Leonard Williams is a great
impactful player. I guess I would just never see him
as I just never saw him as the best interior
defensive line. I'm in football, But hey, who am I
to argue with what he did and what that defensive
line did last year?
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Yeah, because you think of okay, you got Chris Johnson
for the Chiefs and Aaron Darnold. Like if you think
in recent years just this decade, oh wreckers, the best
defensive tackles have had more of an impact on the
game than Leonard Williams. So I think they.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Were all first the first ballot Hall of famers we've
had in the last five ten years.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
If you said, go argue in front of this collection
that Byron Murphy is a better player than Leonard Williams,
I don't think that I would be, you know, devoid
of any material to make that argument. I'm not saying
that I would choose to make that argument, but there's
that argument is there to be made in terms of
(25:47):
just how you impact the defense. So I think Murphy
ought to be around five or six, and you know,
to be around five or six, you know. And I
haven't looked at enough of them, I know that to
your point, and I agree with it. I think that, uh,
it seems like a guy should just be more impactful.
(26:08):
But he's damn good and I'm really glad he's ours
and I like his personality, I like his leadership, I
like you know, how he's embraced he I like everything
about Leonard Williams. So so we can we can like, well,
we can love Leonard Williams and if we want to
call it sports love and still kind of raise an
eyebrow goes, But is he the number one?
Speaker 6 (26:33):
You know?
Speaker 5 (26:33):
So at an event. These things are fun though, they're
good for July. Yeah, coffee and beer talk.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
It's coffee and beer talk July.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
We've we've spent a lot of time on some other
things today. And and the the other list that I
think takes way too long now, the the top one
hundred as voted by the players that's come out for
a few years, right and now there it's just interminably long.
They released like three a day, or not even three
guys a day. It's like it's just it's lasting all
(27:05):
summer long. They've only gotten from one hundred to sixty
seven thus.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Far, counting down. And they've been doing this for well
over a month.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
And what's interesting is only one Seahawk, one player from
the Super Bowl championship team, and that was at ninety seven.
Ernest Jones is the only Seattle Seahawk thus far.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
As voted by the players. Now, you would imagine, so
I wrote a little list, and we've talked about a
lot of these guys already that I feel will be
or should be on this list, and we've talked about
basically all of them. The guy that I had listed,
a guy that I thought should already be on there
is Julian Love. I kind of thought just kind of
(27:50):
ballpark based upon what he did last year, where he
was ranked last year. I thought he should be, you know,
in the nineties somewhere. He hasn't appeared yet, so maybe
he's either out or he makes a huge jump. Charles
Cross I thought he probably should have already been in
that list of top one hundred. Maybe he's not gonna
make it. If he's if he's we're already up to
(28:12):
sixty seven, he might not make it. The guys that
should definitely make it. Sam Donald be very interesting to see.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
How high he is.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
He was seventy two last year. He's clearly not going
to go from seventy two to out of the poll.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
After winning the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
So Sam Donald's going to be somewhere coming up here
soon in the.
Speaker 5 (28:32):
Fifties or sixty quarterback was he's so he's good question
overall player, seventy second overall back or ahead of him?
Because I would look at at first of all the
players know now, yes, sometimes the players may I'll tell
you right, maybe maybe biased about it or what have you,
(28:55):
or you know, there's jealousies and maybe they don't always
submit and and so in that sense, there may be
some minor abuses of the poll, but they know who's
the toughest to play. You know, if you have he
has raised abel fourteenth toughest defensive tax who's a fourteenth.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Quarter fourteenth quarterback last year behind guys like Jordan Love
and Bone Knicks and C. J.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Stroud and Baker Mayfield.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Well, not surprisingly, I you know, it's what you wanted
to weigh. That last game against Detroit in Week eighteen
and the LA game red zone, particularly the low road
red zone. He was awful and that was an epic
regular season game. I think in the history of the
NFL you'd never had two teams playing the regular season
(29:45):
with as many wins. Now, of course that's in the
seventeen game ear which has been brief but recent. But yeah,
it will be interesting to see if the players put
him in the top ten. I think he's a top ten.
I think you think he's a tough He's right there.
I think he's right right there. The highest argument you
could ever make, like like stretch yourself, like like you know,
(30:08):
like on Twister, that old game of twister, to towort
your body. The highest you could ever say is fifth,
and that would be a big time stretch, you know,
because that puts you behind Josh Allen, the Homes, Michic Holmes, Stafford,
Matthew Stafford, and Burrow. Yes, so the highest, and of
course Lamar might be number five, but I think that
(30:29):
somewhere in the seven eight is range is probably the
most fair.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
So the other guys that will be in there, JSN
I think he should be in the top twenty Spoon,
I think he should be in the top twenty five thirty,
and then Leonard Williams.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
Leonard Williams was ninety nine last year. So it'll be
interesting how far Leonard Williams bumps up. You know, he'll
proby be somewhere in the middle of the pack, you know,
fifties or early sixties in this, But it'll be interesting
to you if the players agree with the front office
five twenty two on ninety three point three kjr FM.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Right after this more Softian Dick with Hugh on ninety
three point three KJFM.
Speaker 7 (31:13):
This is Duke of Duke Seafood, And this hour is
brought to you by Duke Seafood. Why don't you make
it at Duke's night tonight. Reserve your table today at
dukeseafood dot com. Now back to Softy and Dick on
Sports Radio ninety three point three kjr FM.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
All Right, because it's so sunny out and I've been
in such a good mood all day, I've decided not
to talk about the Seattle Mariners until five thirty. I've
put it off for three hours, but I figure we
got to do a segment on our frustrating under five
hundred baseball team here as we're on All Star Tuesday.
The Mariners will play again in seventy two hours. They
(31:52):
will start the second half of the season. And Hugh,
We've got diametrically opposed opinions from two of our respect
baseball voices in the city. And I'm going to play
a cut from each one of those respected voices on
the status or the future of one Dan Wilson. And
we'll start with our morning show host, Chuck Powell.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
The manager's not getting the most out of the team,
and this is too important of a season. There's too
much at stake it's the fiftieth annivers we've never made
the World Series. We may have a lockout next year.
We can't let it end by missing the playoffs in
a year in which the American League is down like
never before. So I endorse a managerial change this morning. Officially,
(32:39):
I don't think they'll do it, but that's my statement
on a Monday morning. This is the fire Dan Wilson
Show on Chuck and Buck. And again I don't take
that lightly, but I think it's time. This team needs
a new boss, a new voice, and they need a shakeup.
They need to be reminded. You just can't play like
garbage not expect bad things to happen. And I'd like
(33:03):
to see it happen before we play another game. And
I know Chuck doesn't take that lightly.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Chuck has never been the Hey, fire this guy, get
rid of that guy like he has never been the
knee jerk shock jock sports radio show host. So that
coming from Chuck is you know that lands? That lands
for me?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Now?
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Alyssa and I yesterday had Bill Krueger on and Alissa
didn't ask Bill like should Dan be fired? But basically
was the question was directed at you know how much
culpability should Dan have for all these struggles that this
baseball team is having and Bill offered these extenuating circumstances.
Speaker 6 (33:47):
Dan, I think, has done everything in his power to
put this team in a position to win. He's been
positive with the players, He's taken all the slings and arrows.
There's been lots and lots of interesting conversations behind the
scenes that he tucked into himself. Okay, when it had
to do with things that had to do with the
craziness of the starting pitching staff and the craziness that
(34:09):
they tried to emplay on the team, which they did.
And honestly, I think there's four games right there that
they kicked away, four of them. So you might be
in a lot better shaving right now if you hadn't
decided to piggyback or play six man. And I don't
know what they're going to do with that going forward,
but he's pretty much had to swallow all that. And
you know, when you lean on right hand hitters that
weren't up the speed and didn't have good half, but
(34:32):
you're sort of committed to them, and he stuck behind him.
He stuck behind the players. That's what you hired him
to be, okay, and I think he's done an excellent
job in that regard. I think you're going to pay
dividends with players when you stay behind in and believe
in them in the long run, because they're good players.
They haven't been hundred percent. Now, should he be pointing
(34:53):
out things when guys are making the same mistake over
and over? Yes, the big leagues, you know you're making
base running mistake, you're making bad reads if you're not
hustling on plays. Yeah, I think he should let those
guys know that's not going to be tolerated. We don't
know what he says because he doesn't tell us a lot.
I think that in today's game, the manager is a foreman.
(35:17):
That's his job, right, make sure the players are positive,
make sure that there's communication, and you stand behind him,
and then you've basically followed the script that's being handed
to you by the front office.
Speaker 5 (35:30):
Hugh.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I like both arguments.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
I wish I could just jump on one side and
say this guy's right and this guy's wrong. And I
feel exactly like Chuck does. I'm as frustrated as Chuck is.
I never thought Dan Wilson should have been made the
permanent manager in the first place, and was shocked, and
everybody was listening to this show on this day knows
that Softie and I were Bill shocked that he was
(35:53):
named the permanent replacement on that day that Scott Servis
was fired. And yet Bill's points the lots of interesting
conversations behind the scenes. Bill knows things. Bill's very close
in that clubhouse, the poorly constructed roster from the right
hand side. The health certainly hasn't been one hundred percent.
(36:16):
You've had superstars go down for long stretches of time.
So and yet he's still talking about Dan being culpable
for certain things and Randy Roseerana being probably the most
recent where he just is not hustling the way he should.
So how do you how do you break down and
dissect what you just heard from from two guys a
(36:38):
no ball.
Speaker 5 (36:39):
Well, I just take it from a sports fan perspective.
You know, a seattleite that you know cared about the
Seattle Mariners, you know, going back to their first year
in the Kingdome. And I have to preface my comment
by saying this, Number One, I've known Bill Krueger a
long time. I consider him a friend, I I couldn't
(37:02):
have more respect for him as a as a person,
as an analyst. I think he really, really really knows
his stuff. He's sharp, and as you said, I absolutely
believe he's connected, No question, he alluded to it. You
can book that in a similar vein Chuck. You know
(37:22):
my twenty eight years on KJAR, I don't know any
you know, on air talk show host in this market
that has baseball knowledge that rises to the level of
analyst level. Yeah, right, I mean everybody. If you took
a poll of every all the on air guys and
the producers at kg are anonymous poll and one of
(37:47):
the questions was who at our station knows more baseball
than anybody else? That Chuck is gonna win in a landslide. Hell,
you guys have on him. You know here, Dave is
the you know quota quote, the franchise, you got your show.
You bring him on in an analyst role, yep, you
ask him analyst question. Yes, we do so. And I
(38:08):
think he's restrained enough that that he's not gonna just
you know, take that likely. I think that he puts
enormous weight on on what his voice says in this market.
So in some both of these guys are I'm stretching
my hands as high as I could, my respect for
both of them as high as they could be. So
I look and I and I say, first of all,
(38:31):
if you enjoy ripping on Dan on Dan Wilson, you know,
I almost kind of feel like shame on you. Yeah,
because he's a good enough hear and what he did
you know in his playing days, like it should bother
all of us, regardless of how you may can't you
may can't stand him as a manager, and you can't
(38:51):
wait to kick him out and and and it can't
come soon enough Friday night to get him never on
the Mariner's back. Like that's a fair take. It's a
baseball related take. But if you enjoy, you know, beating
up on the person Dan Wilson, I don't know. I
think Wilson's earned a lot more agreat you know, station
in this market.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
That's why it's so hard.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
It was a lot easier to uh, you know, to
call for the firing at Scott's service.
Speaker 5 (39:16):
So here's ultimately, sorry, with all the prefaces for me
as just one fan talking, Ultimately it comes down and
I say, if I had a lot of money that
made me nervous on the direction of the Mariners, like you,
Like you said, Okay, I got a I'm gonna forfeit
two years of my retirement income, whatever, whatever it is.
(39:39):
Pick something that makes you nervous. And and and then
you said, right there now, all of a sudden, the
fact that Dan Wilson would be my favorite, uh you know,
cousin at the at the family picnic, that's out the window.
I'm not thinking about Dan Wilson, thinking about your paycheck.
I'm thinking about the direction of the Seattle Mariner, and
(40:01):
I would ultimately land on Chuck's side. I think if
I was making the decision, I remember the Sonics in
seventy eight when they started five and seventeen and Lenny
Wilkins took them over, And you could have made the
same arguments about that team, Well, how much is a
coach really gonna have an impact? Well, they went to
(40:22):
the seventh game of the NBA Finals after a five
and seventeen start.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
And.
Speaker 5 (40:29):
Billy, you know, God bless him. If you listen to
all the things he said, the Mariners could be fifteen
games under five hundred and every reason he gave you, you
would cite as reasons to retain Dan Wilson, Well, how
many games below their expectations are you going to allow
it to go before you say sorry? Dan? Love you
(40:50):
like family, but we need to make a change. And
to me, you know the A Rose Arena play on
Friday night, I did not see it, and in fact,
I heard about it before I saw it, so I
had I just want to get that out there. But
even that, when I saw that play, I was I
(41:11):
was shocked. I was because I had an expectation this
must be pretty bad. And then I saw the play
and I was shot. You don't fire a guy for
one play. But I just feel like there's enough that
that is not going right that that Sometimes sometimes a
managerial change is is not really all entirely for for
(41:36):
defensible substance. Sometimes it's we got to shake things up right,
and and you you you're throwing ice water on the
cold ice water with the ice in it. By the
way that the uh that the players are like, whoa,
we just got we just got him fired, like pick up.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
And you can do that.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
So you do that in baseball, you can't do it
in football because it just tears down your entire structure.
The football coach is the entire structure of the team,
where in baseball it's not.
Speaker 5 (42:08):
I don't land strongly on that, I'm like barely over
the threshold. But if you have to make a decision
because binary yes or no, whose side are you on?
I'm narrowly favoring Chuck's side.
Dave 'Softy' Mahler and Dick Fain News
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Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
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Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com