December 8, 2025 • 18 mins
Cliff Avril, Seahawks legend, joins Dick Fain and Hugh Millen to talk about the amazing defensive success in 2025 so far, Mike Macdonald’s skills and knowledge, his work with legends of the past, the quarterback change last off-season and Sam Darnold’s season.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It was in this Dot Gums rubbing his own fourteen
(00:02):
yard line, moving up the right. How they sniffed the ball? Man,
he was gonna say something to Pall counces into the
end zone. It counts his out of the end zone.
A flag was tone and they rule of safety. That
is the wickish score in Super Bowl history.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Oh man, that was a lot of fun, a lot
of fun back then, and we maybe get back to
those good times here in Seattle and joining us Cliff
Averell from those championship Seahawk teams.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
How you doing, Cliff?
Speaker 4 (00:32):
I am good. I am pen man. I can't complain.
How you guys doing many?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Well, we are doing good.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
It's it's starting to remind us a little bit about
when we were doing when you and I were doing
radio shows all twelve thirteen years ago, and we had
this football team here in town, and they had a
dominant defense and they were holding teams to zero and
six and nine points every single week.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
So tell me about what you're seeing.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Are there elements to this team, particularly this defense, that
that kind of remind you of your Hawks conference in
Super Bowl championship teams?
Speaker 5 (01:07):
Oh, there are, there are.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
There's a lot of great things that this defense is doing.
You know, I mean they got playmakers looking on.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
Every level right whether you look at the guys.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Up front, you look at the linebackers and and the dbs.
But but I think it starts with the guys up front,
you know, Jaron reed Leo, uh from the you know, the.
Speaker 5 (01:25):
Guys on the on the edge.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I mean you got two d tackles that lead the
team in set, you know what I mean, Like that's
unheard of, right, But those guys, I think is the
they're their motor of that defense right now. They they're
the oldest on the team, are on the defense, and
they're just leading these guys. Man, they're showing, they're showing
that it starts up front and then everybody else is
just playing off of them. But collectively, man, it's just
(01:47):
fun to watch because they're i mean everyone's getting turnovers.
Everyone's getting turnovers, whatever position. Everyone's finding ways to get
their hands on the ball and create more opportunities for
the offense.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Really exciting to watch, really fun watch. And I think
the scheme too. I think coach McDonald has done a
great job. Obviously the defensive guru, and you know he'd
had great defenses over the years. But he's found the
right guy to play the right position, and he's putting
them in position to execute. And those guys all they
got to do is just go out there and play,
(02:18):
play fast, and execute the calls and think great things
are happening.
Speaker 6 (02:23):
Well, let's drill down on that very point the scheme.
What are you seeing. Give us an example. You say, okay,
he's putting guys in the opportunity to make plays. Give
us an example or to a play that that's top
of mind for you where you say, oh, okay, whether
you did that or you didn't ten years ago, ten
twelve years ago. Give us an example of what you
(02:47):
see that impresses you. Mike McDonald putting a player in
a position to make the play.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
I mean, if you think about it, even just like
last week, I many did the dB right, Like, I mean,
they're using him in.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
A way that that's unique to.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
His size and his being, his skill set to the
point where you know, you see him blitting and getting
sacks right, or you look at McKnight and DeMarcus Lawrence,
I'd say, like, uh, what was this two or three
weeks ago?
Speaker 5 (03:18):
These plays were identical.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
I was at the game and I'm like, wait up,
did the same thing just happened just on the other
side of the field, Like he understood that that. You know,
McKnight is obviously a great blitter, but he's putting them
one on one with the running back. Okay, you slipped
the running back and then at the defensive end, all
you have to do is fall back. It's same exact
play both times fell back into Uh he ran like
(03:40):
a little text game essentially with the with the linebacker
and boom sax phonbo touchdown, sax phonal touchdown on both plays.
But what made it special is again McKnight being a
pretty good blitter. And then as a past versus, to
be honest with you, you hate well, I hate it should
I said, I can't say those guys, but you hate
having to run games with linebacks because a lot of
(04:02):
times they don't know how to run those games.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Clearly, in this situation, they had trust.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
And uh, you know sans m nick to do that
and then Lawrence just coming off the edge picking it
up in house calling.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
It Cliff favorill join us.
Speaker 6 (04:14):
I know you did.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
You've been doing broadcasting in the preseason for this team.
So you've gotten a chance to be around him, particularly
in training camp. You know what impresses you the most
about Mike McDonald just in your interactions with him.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Well, one, the fact that I'm older than him is
Ridiculous's kind of crazy.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
Makes me feel old.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
But he's a I mean, he's he's awesome. I think
the coolest thing about him is how much respect he
has for us. Uh, you know, I'm gonna I don't know,
they call it legends, so I'm gonna say legends that
it sounds weird.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Oh you're a legend. I'll call you a legend. Everybody
else I call you a legend too.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
But the respect that he had for what we've done, right,
he's a fan of the defense and the way we
played it and those types of things where to the
point where he'll tell us, you know how much of
a fan he is of us, right, So just being
around him, him him understanding defensive schemes, I mean, his knowledge,
he's just a that like the things that he's able
to retain and remember, you know what I mean, it's crazy.
(05:17):
So just just those little bits and pieces of conversations
that you have with and it's like, oh man, this
man is like he's really like a genius. Like it's weird,
it's weird to just put it all in the words,
but like he just remembers everything. He understands every position.
And you know some coaches are you know, just dB
coaches that are offensive or that are de coordinators, you
know what I'm saying. But like he understands the scheme,
(05:39):
he understands the defense. He wants to put guys in
the right position to be able to execute these different things.
He will create plays for certain guys just because of
their athleticism or whatever they're good at.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
Like it's just cool to watch overall.
Speaker 6 (05:54):
Cliff favorable with us. And and Cliff, uh, you just
use the word genius. We don't hear that word tossed
around about football players or coaches very often, right, like
maybe a Bill Walsh or what have you. But something
in the conversation or what you've seen causes you to
use that word. What is it that makes him a
(06:15):
genius in your eyes? Was was Pete Carroll a genius?
Or are you kind of elevating his understanding and just
kind of amplify your thoughts when you use the word genius.
To describe Mike mcthonuone.
Speaker 5 (06:29):
Was pink Carroll Jenius. I think he was just in
a different way.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
When I say Mike McDonald a genius, I'm staying back
on conversations that I've had with him and how he
moves and the scene that he's putting together, like he's
really like he really understands how to put offenses in
a buying right, and he knows how to use the
(06:53):
players that he had and put them in the right
position to do that right. Because it's rare where you'll
look at, you know, the stats for the guys on defense,
where you know you got a few dbs that have sacks,
you have linebackers that have sacks, and you have you know,
your D line Typically it's just your D line up
goes and gets sacked.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Maybe a lot back here or there that get a sack.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
But to be able to put these guys in positions
to execute and do a little bit of everything and
finding the right players to do so and putting the
scheme together that compliments these guys, I think is short
of of that because most coaches, like, my scheme is
what it is, and if you can't run it.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
We're like, you gotta go.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
He's more it seems like I'm not obviously in the
team meetings, but it seems like it's like, Okay, I
have this guy, he's really good at this. I'm going
to find a way to make sure he can execute
the players that I have and highlight him because he's
great at blissing, because he's big to be able to
fill in you know, the A gap, B gap, whatever
it may be. Like he's using those guys within the scheme.
(08:00):
He's thinking of those guys while he's coming up with
a different schemes. I guess it's the right way of
putting it.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Seahawks legend, Cliff Averril want to emphasize legend here on
ninety three point three kJ R talking about the twenty
twenty five Seattle Seahawks.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Let's flip over the flip over to the offensive side.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
What was your take, Cliff, when the Seahawks made the
move to decide, Hey, we're not gonna pay Geno and
we're gonna bring in Sam Donald. And what has been
your assessment thus far of Sam Donald is the Seahawks?
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Well, I'm pretty sure I was like everybody else whereas
like yo, you're doing what you know, you just won
ten games with with with with Gino the year before,
so you know, why would you give up a for
sure thing that you already kind of had. Obviously they
know and see more than we know, right, But it
was definitely one of those question marks, like yo, like
(08:53):
what's going on here? But very impressive Sam Donald, you know,
I mean, he's he this My first eyes is remember
my fore I laughed because I remember my first conversation
with Sam and it's like, you know, he's kind of telling.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
Me like, oh yo, yo, what's up quick? And I'm like, yo,
you know who I am.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
You know what I mean? But this his interaction is,
you know, can be a little little uh I'm gonna
say different sometimes, but super cool dude. And then you
see him go out there and his interaction with his players.
He's getting hype with the guys. You know, he's laughing
and he's doing all these different things. To me, honestly,
it's not surprising that he's having the success because he
(09:32):
not only brought into the system, but he's gotten everybody
else to buy into him. Because I'm sure guys are
listening paying attention to what the media was probably saying
and different things like that. But he he won over
those guys trusts, right, he won those guys over where
whether it's this is the interactions, but also you know,
practice and different things like that, and all those guys
are playing, they're playing lights out for him too, so
(09:54):
it's it's really cool to watch and see.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
Okay, so I.
Speaker 6 (09:57):
Want you to take us. Now you spend a long
time or at least a few years since you played.
I want you to take us into the world of
an actual NFL player, and it's on a Sunday or
Monday night, and you defensive guys you're getting together have met,
whether it's a beer, a cocktail, whatever it is, barbecue
and whatever, just the defensive guys and you just played.
(10:20):
The Rams lost the game. Sam Darnold had four interceptions. Now,
you saw when Ernest Jones went up to the media
and he said, hey, this is our quarterback. If you
know you got criticisms, f you. I want your reaction
to what Ernest Jones said. And then what is it
like when the defensive guys are alone after a game
(10:43):
like that where clearly the quarterback lost the game. What
are you guys saying in those conversations.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
A great defense.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
I was fortunate enough to be a part of a
great defense.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
I think that is exactly what Ernest did you, Right,
you ride.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
For each other like you're you're gonna get on stage.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
I'm gonna tell you this.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
And then also honestly, because we've had moments like that
too when I played where you know, rush through a
few interceptions or whatnot, and our mindset was always, yo,
it doesn't matter, like we got to do our job
and give them the ball back, like we got to
go cause a turnover. That was our mindset. Yes it sucks,
Yes we got to get back out there. Yes, you
know all those things definitely, but that control is the control,
(11:27):
and we're supposed to be the best defense, right, so
let's go get another opportunity to let's go get another
turnover to give them opportunity to go score that.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
That's our job, right, So.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Even with drinks and whatnot, it is like, yo, yeah
that sucks, but that's our guy, Like he's also he's
also gone out there and you know through four or
five touches down too, you know what I mean. So
you can't just ride with somebody when they're just killing it.
You got to be able to ride with them when
they're downtime too. And again, your job is to get
the quarterback the ball as many times as possible. If
(11:56):
you want to be a great defense and a great team.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Great if Cliff, we really appreciate it, man, we'll have
you on. Once this team gets back and it gets
back in the playoffs, woul they belong all right.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
Most definitely. I appreciate you got that.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
You bet that's right, Cliff Averrill, Seahawks legend talking about
this team which will certainly be in the playoffs right
now at ten and three, and I asked the question
about Geno and Sam and as he was answering, I
kind of I was thinking a little bit like what
would be the difference in this team's record if Gino
Smith was the quarterback instead of Sam Donald? And I'm
(12:29):
looking back at these games. I don't think Atlanta goes differently.
I don't think Minnesota goes differently. I don't think Tennessee
goes differently. He lost to the Rams, it would have
lost anyway, probably. I don't think Arizona goes differently. I
don't think Washington goes differently. I mean those were all blowouts.
So the last six games probably would be identical with
Gino Smith or Sam Donald since they were all blowouts
except the Ram game that you lost Houston.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Sam wasn't great. You won by eight in that game.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Jacksonville's the one I look at and say, Sam was
pretty special in that game through for two ninety five
at about a one twenty passer rating against Jacksonville.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
That's one that maybe you could say Sam Darnold.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Won for you. New Orleans was a blood bath. San
Francisco you lost. And then Pittsburgh's the other one thirty
one seventeen. Maybe Gino doesn't go into Pittsburgh and beats
the Steelers. Although when you look at the Sam's numbers
and that he had an eighty nine point eight passer rating,
had two interceptions in that game.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
So you know, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yet we all agree that they're better off with Sam,
and yet Sam really hasn't had to win any of
these games for the Seahawks.
Speaker 6 (13:33):
Well, there's different ways to define win. To me, you
sound like a guy that had had an agenda where
you wanted to get and then everything you looked at
was designed to fit the agenda. Your your final outcome.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Well, but what's funny is my whatever agenda that is,
it's kind of the antithesis of what I've been preaching
all year whatever. I know, But I mean, right in
that moment, is way better than Gina No Dick.
Speaker 6 (13:58):
And maybe maybe maybe just in that moment, you're you know, look,
you're you're hosting a sports radio show. So so I'm
not I'm not picking on you. I'm saying that because
you got to you got to inspire that. I think
that's a good question. I should be able to defend that.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
Gay.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
I think there's a number of those games like Arizona,
where he had had to make a couple of plays
at the end, you know, those fade balls up the
right side then up the left side like a lot.
Hell this game, this game just yesterday, that could have
been a lesser quarterback throws an interception in the red zone,
(14:38):
doesn't make the plays that could have gone sideways. A
lot of times when you have a quarterback. Sam Darnold
is number one in the NFL in yards per attempt,
number one in the NFL in in completions over ten yards,
completions over twenty yards. This dude has thrown the knockout
punch that you like. It's almost like that hypothesis that
(15:01):
you just advanced is almost it's detracting from a guy
that is so good that his that in the passing game,
that you just bludgeon these teams and then you just
say say, well, anybody could have done that, Drew Lock
could have done that, you know, what have you? And
so we don't know that. It's good coffee and beer talk.
(15:24):
The answer is, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
You don't know.
Speaker 6 (15:26):
It's not provable, it's not falsifiable. But I do think
the tenor the question and kind of where you're angling
is doing a disservice to I think Sam Donald. My answer,
My answer is I don't think they'd have this record, okay,
and I think that the rest record be worse, somewhere
in the neighborhood of two to four games worse.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Okay, whoa two to four games worst?
Speaker 6 (15:49):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (15:49):
All right.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
I did make the conic it that I was soundly
laughed at by both Jackson Feltz and Dave Softy mall
are like, I don't know, probably two months ago where
I said that I felt like this defense was so
good that you could probably win eight games with Drew
Lock as your starting quarterback. And I was soundly laughed at.
And I will stand here on this day, December eighth,
(16:11):
and a ten to three football team and say, I
believe that this defense is so damn good that Drew
Lock could win eight games as the starting quarterback of
this team.
Speaker 6 (16:19):
And go eight to nine. Yes, yeah, I think Drew
Lock is a good I think he's a good backup.
I mean, he's talented. He doesn't have the field for
the game, but his his traits are starter level of trades. Yes,
but you know, so where can we agree? We can
agree that this defense is elite. It's the best since
Week six in any important measure, it's the best defense
(16:40):
in the NFL. Following the Tampa Bay game, you say, well,
that's that's cherry picking. Yes, in a way, that was
the worst defensive game. They also didn't have four players.
Even why are when you lost to Tampa Bay? Nick
even wore had four plays to his career, Yes, in
the first in the first five plays of the forty
(17:02):
nine er game, like everything that Mike McDonald has wanted
to morphine, you know, you know, he didn't have those guys.
So so it's the best defense in the NFL, and
the best defense in the NFL would win a lot
of games with a lot of average quarterbacks. I'll agree
with you there, but I think Sam Donald has been
particularly in the first eight weeks when his average passer
(17:24):
rating was one hundred and sixteen and he was and
a lot of those you know, hey, he just knocks
you out in those games. You know, it's like, we
don't even know what it would be like to be
in a close game because Donald just made himself.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Maybe he's contributing it to it being a not close.
Speaker 6 (17:47):
It was Pearl Harbor bombs away with Sam Donald early on.
He said, a hell of a season, and particularly the
first half of the season. So yeah, I think somewhere
in the neighborhood of two to four games more than
you would have had with Gino.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Sounds good. You're gonna run. We'll talk to you tomorrow
at three o'clock.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
Is that right? All right?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Sounds good, three o'clock tomorrow. Hugh Breed Love Milling, great stuff.
Chuck pal is gonna join us. We're gonna take a
segment to talk a little baseball because there's.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Some heat going on in the rumor world. And also
the Mariners.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Made a trade over the off season or the over
the weekend rather, and we'll see if Chuck thinks it
was a good trade or not.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Next a ninety three point three KJRFL
It was in this Dot Gums rubbing his own fourteen
(00:02):
yard line, moving up the right. How they sniffed the ball? Man,
he was gonna say something to Pall counces into the
end zone. It counts his out of the end zone.
A flag was tone and they rule of safety. That
is the wickish score in Super Bowl history.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Oh man, that was a lot of fun, a lot
of fun back then, and we maybe get back to
those good times here in Seattle and joining us Cliff
Averell from those championship Seahawk teams.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
How you doing, Cliff?
Speaker 4 (00:32):
I am good. I am pen man. I can't complain.
How you guys doing many?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Well, we are doing good.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
It's it's starting to remind us a little bit about
when we were doing when you and I were doing
radio shows all twelve thirteen years ago, and we had
this football team here in town, and they had a
dominant defense and they were holding teams to zero and
six and nine points every single week.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
So tell me about what you're seeing.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Are there elements to this team, particularly this defense, that
that kind of remind you of your Hawks conference in
Super Bowl championship teams?
Speaker 5 (01:07):
Oh, there are, there are.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
There's a lot of great things that this defense is doing.
You know, I mean they got playmakers looking on.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
Every level right whether you look at the guys.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Up front, you look at the linebackers and and the dbs.
But but I think it starts with the guys up front,
you know, Jaron reed Leo, uh from the you know, the.
Speaker 5 (01:25):
Guys on the on the edge.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I mean you got two d tackles that lead the
team in set, you know what I mean, Like that's
unheard of, right, But those guys, I think is the
they're their motor of that defense right now. They they're
the oldest on the team, are on the defense, and
they're just leading these guys. Man, they're showing, they're showing
that it starts up front and then everybody else is
just playing off of them. But collectively, man, it's just
(01:47):
fun to watch because they're i mean everyone's getting turnovers.
Everyone's getting turnovers, whatever position. Everyone's finding ways to get
their hands on the ball and create more opportunities for
the offense.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Really exciting to watch, really fun watch. And I think
the scheme too. I think coach McDonald has done a
great job. Obviously the defensive guru, and you know he'd
had great defenses over the years. But he's found the
right guy to play the right position, and he's putting
them in position to execute. And those guys all they
got to do is just go out there and play,
(02:18):
play fast, and execute the calls and think great things
are happening.
Speaker 6 (02:23):
Well, let's drill down on that very point the scheme.
What are you seeing. Give us an example. You say, okay,
he's putting guys in the opportunity to make plays. Give
us an example or to a play that that's top
of mind for you where you say, oh, okay, whether
you did that or you didn't ten years ago, ten
twelve years ago. Give us an example of what you
(02:47):
see that impresses you. Mike McDonald putting a player in
a position to make the play.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
I mean, if you think about it, even just like
last week, I many did the dB right, Like, I mean,
they're using him in.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
A way that that's unique to.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
His size and his being, his skill set to the
point where you know, you see him blitting and getting
sacks right, or you look at McKnight and DeMarcus Lawrence,
I'd say, like, uh, what was this two or three
weeks ago?
Speaker 5 (03:18):
These plays were identical.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
I was at the game and I'm like, wait up,
did the same thing just happened just on the other
side of the field, Like he understood that that. You know,
McKnight is obviously a great blitter, but he's putting them
one on one with the running back. Okay, you slipped
the running back and then at the defensive end, all
you have to do is fall back. It's same exact
play both times fell back into Uh he ran like
(03:40):
a little text game essentially with the with the linebacker
and boom sax phonbo touchdown, sax phonal touchdown on both plays.
But what made it special is again McKnight being a
pretty good blitter. And then as a past versus, to
be honest with you, you hate well, I hate it should
I said, I can't say those guys, but you hate
having to run games with linebacks because a lot of
(04:02):
times they don't know how to run those games.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Clearly, in this situation, they had trust.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
And uh, you know sans m nick to do that
and then Lawrence just coming off the edge picking it
up in house calling.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
It Cliff favorill join us.
Speaker 6 (04:14):
I know you did.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
You've been doing broadcasting in the preseason for this team.
So you've gotten a chance to be around him, particularly
in training camp. You know what impresses you the most
about Mike McDonald just in your interactions with him.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Well, one, the fact that I'm older than him is
Ridiculous's kind of crazy.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
Makes me feel old.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
But he's a I mean, he's he's awesome. I think
the coolest thing about him is how much respect he
has for us. Uh, you know, I'm gonna I don't know,
they call it legends, so I'm gonna say legends that
it sounds weird.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Oh you're a legend. I'll call you a legend. Everybody
else I call you a legend too.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
But the respect that he had for what we've done, right,
he's a fan of the defense and the way we
played it and those types of things where to the
point where he'll tell us, you know how much of
a fan he is of us, right, So just being
around him, him him understanding defensive schemes, I mean, his knowledge,
he's just a that like the things that he's able
to retain and remember, you know what I mean, it's crazy.
(05:17):
So just just those little bits and pieces of conversations
that you have with and it's like, oh man, this
man is like he's really like a genius. Like it's weird,
it's weird to just put it all in the words,
but like he just remembers everything. He understands every position.
And you know some coaches are you know, just dB
coaches that are offensive or that are de coordinators, you
know what I'm saying. But like he understands the scheme,
(05:39):
he understands the defense. He wants to put guys in
the right position to be able to execute these different things.
He will create plays for certain guys just because of
their athleticism or whatever they're good at.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
Like it's just cool to watch overall.
Speaker 6 (05:54):
Cliff favorable with us. And and Cliff, uh, you just
use the word genius. We don't hear that word tossed
around about football players or coaches very often, right, like
maybe a Bill Walsh or what have you. But something
in the conversation or what you've seen causes you to
use that word. What is it that makes him a
(06:15):
genius in your eyes? Was was Pete Carroll a genius?
Or are you kind of elevating his understanding and just
kind of amplify your thoughts when you use the word genius.
To describe Mike mcthonuone.
Speaker 5 (06:29):
Was pink Carroll Jenius. I think he was just in
a different way.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
When I say Mike McDonald a genius, I'm staying back
on conversations that I've had with him and how he
moves and the scene that he's putting together, like he's
really like he really understands how to put offenses in
a buying right, and he knows how to use the
(06:53):
players that he had and put them in the right
position to do that right. Because it's rare where you'll
look at, you know, the stats for the guys on defense,
where you know you got a few dbs that have sacks,
you have linebackers that have sacks, and you have you know,
your D line Typically it's just your D line up
goes and gets sacked.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Maybe a lot back here or there that get a sack.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
But to be able to put these guys in positions
to execute and do a little bit of everything and
finding the right players to do so and putting the
scheme together that compliments these guys, I think is short
of of that because most coaches, like, my scheme is
what it is, and if you can't run it.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
We're like, you gotta go.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
He's more it seems like I'm not obviously in the
team meetings, but it seems like it's like, Okay, I
have this guy, he's really good at this. I'm going
to find a way to make sure he can execute
the players that I have and highlight him because he's
great at blissing, because he's big to be able to
fill in you know, the A gap, B gap, whatever
it may be. Like he's using those guys within the scheme.
(08:00):
He's thinking of those guys while he's coming up with
a different schemes. I guess it's the right way of
putting it.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Seahawks legend, Cliff Averril want to emphasize legend here on
ninety three point three kJ R talking about the twenty
twenty five Seattle Seahawks.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Let's flip over the flip over to the offensive side.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
What was your take, Cliff, when the Seahawks made the
move to decide, Hey, we're not gonna pay Geno and
we're gonna bring in Sam Donald. And what has been
your assessment thus far of Sam Donald is the Seahawks?
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Well, I'm pretty sure I was like everybody else whereas
like yo, you're doing what you know, you just won
ten games with with with with Gino the year before,
so you know, why would you give up a for
sure thing that you already kind of had. Obviously they
know and see more than we know, right, But it
was definitely one of those question marks, like yo, like
(08:53):
what's going on here? But very impressive Sam Donald, you know,
I mean, he's he this My first eyes is remember
my fore I laughed because I remember my first conversation
with Sam and it's like, you know, he's kind of telling.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
Me like, oh yo, yo, what's up quick? And I'm like, yo,
you know who I am.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
You know what I mean? But this his interaction is,
you know, can be a little little uh I'm gonna
say different sometimes, but super cool dude. And then you
see him go out there and his interaction with his players.
He's getting hype with the guys. You know, he's laughing
and he's doing all these different things. To me, honestly,
it's not surprising that he's having the success because he
(09:32):
not only brought into the system, but he's gotten everybody
else to buy into him. Because I'm sure guys are
listening paying attention to what the media was probably saying
and different things like that. But he he won over
those guys trusts, right, he won those guys over where
whether it's this is the interactions, but also you know,
practice and different things like that, and all those guys
are playing, they're playing lights out for him too, so
(09:54):
it's it's really cool to watch and see.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
Okay, so I.
Speaker 6 (09:57):
Want you to take us. Now you spend a long
time or at least a few years since you played.
I want you to take us into the world of
an actual NFL player, and it's on a Sunday or
Monday night, and you defensive guys you're getting together have met,
whether it's a beer, a cocktail, whatever it is, barbecue
and whatever, just the defensive guys and you just played.
(10:20):
The Rams lost the game. Sam Darnold had four interceptions. Now,
you saw when Ernest Jones went up to the media
and he said, hey, this is our quarterback. If you
know you got criticisms, f you. I want your reaction
to what Ernest Jones said. And then what is it
like when the defensive guys are alone after a game
(10:43):
like that where clearly the quarterback lost the game. What
are you guys saying in those conversations.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
A great defense.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
I was fortunate enough to be a part of a
great defense.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
I think that is exactly what Ernest did you, Right,
you ride.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
For each other like you're you're gonna get on stage.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
I'm gonna tell you this.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
And then also honestly, because we've had moments like that
too when I played where you know, rush through a
few interceptions or whatnot, and our mindset was always, yo,
it doesn't matter, like we got to do our job
and give them the ball back, like we got to
go cause a turnover. That was our mindset. Yes it sucks,
Yes we got to get back out there. Yes, you
know all those things definitely, but that control is the control,
(11:27):
and we're supposed to be the best defense, right, so
let's go get another opportunity to let's go get another
turnover to give them opportunity to go score that.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
That's our job, right, So.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Even with drinks and whatnot, it is like, yo, yeah
that sucks, but that's our guy, Like he's also he's
also gone out there and you know through four or
five touches down too, you know what I mean. So
you can't just ride with somebody when they're just killing it.
You got to be able to ride with them when
they're downtime too. And again, your job is to get
the quarterback the ball as many times as possible. If
(11:56):
you want to be a great defense and a great team.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Great if Cliff, we really appreciate it, man, we'll have
you on. Once this team gets back and it gets
back in the playoffs, woul they belong all right.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
Most definitely. I appreciate you got that.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
You bet that's right, Cliff Averrill, Seahawks legend talking about
this team which will certainly be in the playoffs right
now at ten and three, and I asked the question
about Geno and Sam and as he was answering, I
kind of I was thinking a little bit like what
would be the difference in this team's record if Gino
Smith was the quarterback instead of Sam Donald? And I'm
(12:29):
looking back at these games. I don't think Atlanta goes differently.
I don't think Minnesota goes differently. I don't think Tennessee
goes differently. He lost to the Rams, it would have
lost anyway, probably. I don't think Arizona goes differently. I
don't think Washington goes differently. I mean those were all blowouts.
So the last six games probably would be identical with
Gino Smith or Sam Donald since they were all blowouts
except the Ram game that you lost Houston.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Sam wasn't great. You won by eight in that game.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Jacksonville's the one I look at and say, Sam was
pretty special in that game through for two ninety five
at about a one twenty passer rating against Jacksonville.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
That's one that maybe you could say Sam Darnold.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Won for you. New Orleans was a blood bath. San
Francisco you lost. And then Pittsburgh's the other one thirty
one seventeen. Maybe Gino doesn't go into Pittsburgh and beats
the Steelers. Although when you look at the Sam's numbers
and that he had an eighty nine point eight passer rating,
had two interceptions in that game.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
So you know, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yet we all agree that they're better off with Sam,
and yet Sam really hasn't had to win any of
these games for the Seahawks.
Speaker 6 (13:33):
Well, there's different ways to define win. To me, you
sound like a guy that had had an agenda where
you wanted to get and then everything you looked at
was designed to fit the agenda. Your your final outcome.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Well, but what's funny is my whatever agenda that is,
it's kind of the antithesis of what I've been preaching
all year whatever. I know, But I mean, right in
that moment, is way better than Gina No Dick.
Speaker 6 (13:58):
And maybe maybe maybe just in that moment, you're you know, look,
you're you're hosting a sports radio show. So so I'm
not I'm not picking on you. I'm saying that because
you got to you got to inspire that. I think
that's a good question. I should be able to defend that.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
Gay.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
I think there's a number of those games like Arizona,
where he had had to make a couple of plays
at the end, you know, those fade balls up the
right side then up the left side like a lot.
Hell this game, this game just yesterday, that could have
been a lesser quarterback throws an interception in the red zone,
(14:38):
doesn't make the plays that could have gone sideways. A
lot of times when you have a quarterback. Sam Darnold
is number one in the NFL in yards per attempt,
number one in the NFL in in completions over ten yards,
completions over twenty yards. This dude has thrown the knockout
punch that you like. It's almost like that hypothesis that
(15:01):
you just advanced is almost it's detracting from a guy
that is so good that his that in the passing game,
that you just bludgeon these teams and then you just
say say, well, anybody could have done that, Drew Lock
could have done that, you know, what have you? And
so we don't know that. It's good coffee and beer talk.
(15:24):
The answer is, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
You don't know.
Speaker 6 (15:26):
It's not provable, it's not falsifiable. But I do think
the tenor the question and kind of where you're angling
is doing a disservice to I think Sam Donald. My answer,
My answer is I don't think they'd have this record, okay,
and I think that the rest record be worse, somewhere
in the neighborhood of two to four games worse.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Okay, whoa two to four games worst?
Speaker 6 (15:49):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (15:49):
All right.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
I did make the conic it that I was soundly
laughed at by both Jackson Feltz and Dave Softy mall
are like, I don't know, probably two months ago where
I said that I felt like this defense was so
good that you could probably win eight games with Drew
Lock as your starting quarterback. And I was soundly laughed at.
And I will stand here on this day, December eighth,
(16:11):
and a ten to three football team and say, I
believe that this defense is so damn good that Drew
Lock could win eight games as the starting quarterback of
this team.
Speaker 6 (16:19):
And go eight to nine. Yes, yeah, I think Drew
Lock is a good I think he's a good backup.
I mean, he's talented. He doesn't have the field for
the game, but his his traits are starter level of trades. Yes,
but you know, so where can we agree? We can
agree that this defense is elite. It's the best since
Week six in any important measure, it's the best defense
(16:40):
in the NFL. Following the Tampa Bay game, you say, well,
that's that's cherry picking. Yes, in a way, that was
the worst defensive game. They also didn't have four players.
Even why are when you lost to Tampa Bay? Nick
even wore had four plays to his career, Yes, in
the first in the first five plays of the forty
(17:02):
nine er game, like everything that Mike McDonald has wanted
to morphine, you know, you know, he didn't have those guys.
So so it's the best defense in the NFL, and
the best defense in the NFL would win a lot
of games with a lot of average quarterbacks. I'll agree
with you there, but I think Sam Donald has been
particularly in the first eight weeks when his average passer
(17:24):
rating was one hundred and sixteen and he was and
a lot of those you know, hey, he just knocks
you out in those games. You know, it's like, we
don't even know what it would be like to be
in a close game because Donald just made himself.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Maybe he's contributing it to it being a not close.
Speaker 6 (17:47):
It was Pearl Harbor bombs away with Sam Donald early on.
He said, a hell of a season, and particularly the
first half of the season. So yeah, I think somewhere
in the neighborhood of two to four games more than
you would have had with Gino.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Sounds good. You're gonna run. We'll talk to you tomorrow
at three o'clock.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
Is that right? All right?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Sounds good, three o'clock tomorrow. Hugh Breed Love Milling, great stuff.
Chuck pal is gonna join us. We're gonna take a
segment to talk a little baseball because there's.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Some heat going on in the rumor world. And also
the Mariners.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Made a trade over the off season or the over
the weekend rather, and we'll see if Chuck thinks it
was a good trade or not.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Next a ninety three point three KJRFL
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