September 8, 2026 • 19 mins
Jon Wilner of The San Jose Mercury News and Wilner Hotline joins Dave Softy Mahler and Dick Fain to talk about the controversial ending of Michigan vs. Western Michigan, how UW performed in the Apple Cup win over WSU and the running back depth, USC impressions so far, ESPN’s bid on a 24-team-playoff, LSU’s possible boot, and his pick.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Duke of Duke Seafood, letting you know that
this hour of Softie and Dick on your home for
the Huskies and Kraken is proudly brought to you by
Duke Seafood. Why not make it a Duke's night tonight?
Reserve your table today at dukesseafood.com. on Sports Radio 93.3
KJR FM.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It's time for our weekly Pac-12 conversation with San Jose
Mercury News reporter John Wilner, brought to you by Simply Seattle.
Our friends at SimplySeattle.com have the most amazing collection of
all things Seattle. Seahawks gear, UW hats, and the largest
selection of Sonics.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Gear anywhere in the world.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Learn more at SimplySeattle.com.
Speaker 5 (00:38):
All right, by the way, I'm going to check my
text here from the famous Addy and Caleb combination over
there at Simply Seattle. They have new Banner Night memorabilia.
I guess that's the championship banner?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
To specifically highlight. They will also be promoting.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
They want to check out their store pregame, First &
Pine and Pier 54, for a lot of discounts, by
the way. So if there's new banner night memorabilia, you're
a Hawk fan, stop by the First & Pine and
the Pier 54 Simply Seattle locations on your way to
the game. If you're buying something on the website, always
use code KJR15 for 15% off anything at simplyseattle.com. Here
(01:19):
he is, the Pope of the Pack, the Big Ten
Baron himself, our friend John Wilner. joining us on the
radio program. Johnny, how are you?
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I'm pretty good, thanks. How are you guys?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Yeah, good, man.
Speaker 5 (01:30):
You sound exhausted. I mean, there is a lot of
news today. You and I were joking offline about the
amount of news that was put out today. I mean,
I guess we can talk about the CFP weighing in
on the 2014 playoff, the Western Michigan-Michigan ending from Saturday.
I saw where Lance Taylor, who was the head coach
at Western Michigan, was named the Bear Bryant Coach of
(01:51):
the Week today.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Even though he lost to Michigan. It's got to be
a first.
Speaker 5 (01:55):
Michigan falls 12 spots out of the AP poll after
getting bailed out by instant replay and hitting a Hail Mary. So,
I mean, just give us the update on where we
are with that thing. And is there any precedent that
you can remember, John, in college football for a game
being overturned like Western Michigan wants this one being overturned
(02:18):
from Saturday?
Speaker 6 (02:20):
Yeah, boy, events are moving quickly on this story. So
this morning, the Mac basically said, forget, forget our comment
from the other day. We want the outcome overturned because
the big 10 screwed up and they are going to,
they were going to appeal to the football oversight committee,
which is part of the NCAA umbrella. The bottom line
(02:40):
is there is no mechanism within the NCAA rule book
to actually change the outcome of a game once the
lead official has signaled that the game is over.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
So they are not going to get it overturned.
Speaker 6 (02:57):
I'm sure a lot of people think if the situation
had been reversed, Michigan would find a way, the Big
Ten would find a way to get it overturned, but
it is going to remain a Michigan victory. Now, the
more important piece is that the NCAA has also clarified
the timing issue because that is the biggest problem.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
There were two clocks. The instant replay was using one clock.
Speaker 6 (03:22):
The public was using the other clock that we see
on the broadcast and it's in the stadium. You can't
have two clocks, right? That is a recipe for a massive,
massive scandal. So the NCAA today is sending out information
to all the conferences.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
This is according to The Athletic that One clock should
be used, and it is the clock that we see
on TV.
Speaker 6 (03:49):
You can't have the officials in the replay booth or
the command center using a separate clock. The official clock
is what the viewing public in the stadium and on
TV will see. That is a huge development, closing a
loophole that obviously caused this huge controversy.
Speaker 7 (04:08):
John, you used the phrase, if the situation were reversed,
and you referred to Michigan maybe potentially winning an appeal
if the situation reversed. My question is, do you think
if the situation was reversed and it was Western Michigan
with the ball down in the game, would the Big
Ten gone to such great lengths to find an extra
(04:29):
zero or a one on the clock to have it
be a do-over?
Speaker 4 (04:36):
I can't answer that one, but it's a hell of
a question. You know, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (04:41):
And that's part of the problem. And you saw that
as soon as this happened, there were the calls. And
we've heard these calls before, and I happen to agree
with them. And I think Rick Neuheisel is, like, leading
the charge for this. You know, nationalize the officiating, right?
Like the NFL has, you would avoid this kind of
stuff where the integrity of the game and the competition
(05:03):
is called into question. You know, what I said earlier
was a little bit in jest only because, you know,
the Big Ten is so powerful in college sports and
the MAAC is obviously not. But yeah, I think everybody
has a perfectly reasonable right to think, well, you never
know what would happen if Western Michigan had had the
(05:24):
incomplete pass with the clock at zero.
Speaker 5 (05:27):
Well, I just think, I wonder how much of this
took a turn when Mike Pereira went on with Joel
Klatt yesterday and said exactly what the Mac is saying now,
that if there is a discrepancy, you're supposed to use
the clock in the program feed. And that's what the
Mac statement included today. I saw that from Nicole Arbach,
(05:48):
that she put that out. And I wonder how much
of this was spurned, John, by what Mike Pereira told
Joel Klatt yesterday.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Oh, I'm sure.
Speaker 6 (05:56):
And, you know, Pereira told either Fox or the ESPN, somebody,
I think two days ago even, that if this had
happened in the NFL, the NFL would go with the
clock that's on TV, that's in the stadium, that you
have to revert, you have to default to the public
(06:18):
clock so that.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
There are no integrity issues. And that is– he is
exactly right.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
And I'm sure that that helps spur the MAAC to
push this thing further.
Speaker 7 (06:29):
John, I loved what you and the rest of the
AP did in the polls this week.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
I mean– What did I do?
Speaker 7 (06:34):
Well, it just– the fact that Michigan, in a win,
dropped from 16th to 28th in the polls, the fact
that Oregon, in a win, dropped from 2nd to 6th,
that seems to me like a new phenomenon.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
UW.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
UW dropped two spots.
Speaker 7 (06:49):
But, I mean, it– I can't remember teams dropping significantly
like Michigan and Oregon in the past after wins.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Is that kind of a new phenomenon?
Speaker 6 (07:02):
It is not for me, and that's why I'm consistently
voted the worst pollster.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
I've been doing that for years. I love it.
Speaker 6 (07:12):
I moved teams up. I moved Boise into my poll,
into my ballot.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
They looked good.
Speaker 6 (07:19):
I moved Oregon down like eight spots. I moved Boise
to like 17th. I dropped the Huskies. I can't remember,
maybe four or five. Michigan is out of my ballot.
I've got Western Michigan is in because I counted that
as a win for Western Michigan.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
So I've been doing that for years.
Speaker 6 (07:36):
I think you have to account for how competitive the
game is and what the competition level is. And if
you're Boise and you're unranked and you go to Eugene
and you basically play even with the Ducks for 60 minutes,
I think you should be ranked. Whereas if you're the
Huskies and you're, what were they, 13, 14 last week?
(07:56):
and you struggle against a mediocre team and you're at home,
you should drop.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
I viewed it like that forever.
Speaker 7 (08:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Yeah, well, the Huskies situation was disturbing. That's not what
any of us thought. I mean, you had them covering
the 23-and-a-half easily, I think, when you were on the
air with us on Tuesday.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
By the way, you went 1-and-1. You got USC but
lost on UW.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
How surprised were you that in the third, early fourth
quarter of that game, it's a 10-7 lead for UW?
Speaker 6 (08:25):
Yep. Yeah, my jaw was on the floor at that point,
and it took a while to get it off. I mean,
with the continuity they have on offense, I was dumbfounded
that they struggled that much. And, you know, Washington State,
another new coach, another roster overhaul.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
UW's got everything going for it.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
Veteran quarterback, continuity with the play caller, good offensive line
at home.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
I mean, that was really... pretty if.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
I'm a husky fan i'm pretty concerned and uh yes
their defense played well but i also am not sure
how good washington state's offense is right.
Speaker 7 (09:04):
Well softy raised a good point about the continuity three
offensive linemen were making their first starts and you lost
your starting running back in what first quarter early second
quarter i mean and you lost a receiver as well
so i mean is that maybe in upon looking back
on it maybe tempers the negativity a little bit No.
Speaker 6 (09:29):
Just because my issue was not necessarily the running game.
It just didn't seem to me like DeMond Williams was
in any kind of rhythm or felt comfortable or was
seeing the field. He just didn't look like he'd made
any progress, to be honest. And I realize that he's
part of the whole, right?
Speaker 4 (09:50):
He needs protection. He needs to have running lanes. He's
got to have open receivers.
Speaker 6 (09:55):
I certainly do have some questions about the talent level
of their. playmakers and whether they've got enough high level
playmakers to win games against the best teams in the
big 10 but i just didn't think the offense was
in sync and it started with the quarterback and so
and and i i think that I'm just surprised by that,
(10:16):
given all the experience.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
No, I'm with you on the defense, too, by the way.
I think that's kind of what we expected to see,
especially against that quarterback. So, you know, I wasn't really
kind of impressed or concerned about anything. I did like
the fact that UW's young guns and Derek Coleman, Broussard, Ramzak, Fruin,
Jerron Jones all seemed to play pretty good, didn't look
over their skis at all.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
In that game.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
So that was a positive, you know, development. But one
thing for you to keep an eye on, man, their
running back room has been blown to smithereens. I mean,
there are two starters in Lamar and Quade Carr. They're
going to be out for a while. So they're going
to be going to the third, fourth, and fifth string guys.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
And I don't know, man.
Speaker 5 (10:57):
I mean, if they can't run the ball and people
are teeing off on DeMond Williams, this thing could go
south real quick. But John Wilner's with us. You've seen
USC now twice. San Jose State obliterated them. Fresno State
obliterated them. How much have we really learned about how
good or not good USC is in these first two games? I,
(11:17):
you know, a lot, a big part of me wants
to say, boy, they are a lot better.
Speaker 6 (11:22):
They have solved a lot of the issues they've had
on defense and the line of scrimmage. But then there's
also part of me that thinks, well, let's see what happens.
They still got to play what Oregon and Washington. I
think they play Ohio state and Michigan.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Right.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Their schedule is brute.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
Their schedule is absolutely brutal, which is why I don't
have USC in the playoff.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
So I am not convinced.
Speaker 6 (11:44):
I think that they're better, but I don't know how
much that's going to translate to a much better record.
I still see eight and four, nine and three because
of the schedule. And we just don't know that they're
going to hold up defensively. Gary Patterson's a really good coach,
but are they going to hold up defensively against the
best teams in the big 10 and the best offenses?
Speaker 4 (12:02):
I don't know. I just don't know.
Speaker 6 (12:04):
I think so much of it is Lincoln Riley's entire,
you know, disposition and the way.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
He coaches the program.
Speaker 6 (12:10):
It's so focused on offense and, fast speed and all
that i just i'm not convinced yet.
Speaker 7 (12:16):
John i think the luckiest guy in the state of
michigan is bryce underwood because if that ball is incomplete
and this whole clock snafu doesn't happen the entire focus
on that game is how bad bryce underwood was and
now almost nobody's talking about it how much jeopardy is
he in of losing his job i.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
Think some because kyle whittingham said yesterday that they are
you know he's got to play better or they're He
didn't use those words, but it was not a super
strong show of support for Underwood. And frankly, you know,
the Big Ten also owes the SEC a favor because
the SEC with this LSU thing has totally taken the
(12:56):
focus off of the Big Ten's officiating problem, right?
Speaker 4 (12:59):
The whole deal.
Speaker 6 (13:00):
This morning and all of a sudden everything changed away
from the Big Ten and towards the SEC in terms
of the media attention in college football.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Well, let's go there.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
CFP issuing a statement today saying that they're going to
move forward in evaluating a 2014 playoff. They're in discussions
with ESPN, which reminds you who really runs college football.
It's ESPN and Fox that run college football. So give
us your thoughts on the potential reality of a 2014 playoff.
Speaker 6 (13:33):
So this was actually a big deal, and it was
like the third or fourth playoff. story today. Uh, but the,
the CFP has triggered the 30 day negotiating window with ESPN,
which is the only way that they can really get
a handle on how much ESPN will be willing to
pay for 2014 playoff. And if the 30 days come
(13:55):
and go, and they don't have a satisfactory dollar figure
from ESPN, then they can take the play, the expanded playoff,
to the open market and see what they can get
from Fox and ESPN and CBS. So this doesn't signal
that they are definitely expanding to 24, but they can't
expand to 24 without doing this.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
And this tells me that they are planning to.
Speaker 6 (14:19):
And as early as next year, I think at this point, fans,
your listeners should start to think, yeah, there's going to
be a 2014 playoff next season.
Speaker 7 (14:28):
Is there any reason to pay attention to the SEC's
threat to boot out LSU? Or is this just, I mean,
Softie and I kind of feel like.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Oh, man. That, I mean, first of all, unprecedented.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
The only team that's been booted that I know of
is Temple got booted.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
From the Big East because they sucked at football too much. Right?
Speaker 6 (14:46):
Temple getting booted from the Big East is not quite
LSU getting booted from the SEC.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
It's never happened.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Right?
Speaker 4 (14:52):
You think about North Carolina academic scandal. Never happened. Baylor.
Speaker 6 (14:56):
Penn State, all the scandals, nobody's ever gotten this far
down the road of expulsion. That tells you how pissed
the SEC presidents and chancellors are at LSU.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Now, I don't think that they are going to go
through with it on.
Speaker 6 (15:11):
Thursday and actually vote LSU out. It would take 11
out of the 15. I think all 15 of them
are pissed at LSU, but I don't think they're going
to vote them out. I think they will sanction them.
They will warn them. They will put them on double
secret probation, whatever it is. I don't think they're going
to actually vote them out, but what they're doing is
they're sending a message because they don't want LSU doing
(15:34):
any hijinks with the pro players, but also they want
to show everybody that they can enforce their own rules
so that in a few years they can break away
from the NCAA and govern themselves.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
And the big 10 is going to do the same thing.
Speaker 6 (15:48):
If the, if the bill in the The Big Ten
and the SEC are going to form their own self-governing models,
and they're going to break away from the NCAA in
two or three years.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
And this is a key step along that process.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Well, let me go back.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
I mean, we can't just follow up on what you
just said a couple seconds ago. You said you think there's–
let me just make sure I heard you right. You
think there's a chance we see a 2014 playoff next season?
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 6 (16:14):
I think that now I would vote. I would say
it's better than 50-50 at this point. Okay.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Because this step.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
No, go ahead. Go ahead.
Speaker 6 (16:24):
This step, they have to do it along the protocols
for getting a new TV contract.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
For the extra 12 games, right?
Speaker 6 (16:34):
So they'd be going from 11 games currently to 23
games in a 2014 playoff. So those 12 new games,
they've got to figure out how much those are worth.
And they can't do that unless they trigger this negotiating
window with ESPN to force ESPN to say, here's how
much we'll pay.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
And then the CFP says, all right, well, we don't
want that. We're going to go to the market.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
Okay, so two questions. Do you like the 2014 playoff?
And then number two, the Big Ten championship game is
set for December 5th, 2026. Is this the last Big
Ten championship game this year?
Speaker 6 (17:13):
I think that there's probably, I would put 60% chance
that it's the last Big Ten championship game, yes.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
The championship games will go out.
Speaker 6 (17:21):
So what they're going to do, if it goes to 24,
they're going to end the regular season on Thanksgiving weekend.
They'll take a weekend off, except for Army-Navy, and then
they will start the 2014 playoff on what is now
Army-Navy and Heisman weekend.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
So the championship games are going to go away.
Speaker 6 (17:40):
The question is, will the 12 new games that they're
adding pay enough to offset losing the championship games? The
number they need to get is about $ 250 million for the.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
12 new games.
Speaker 6 (17:54):
The problem, the reason it's not completely assured is because
those 12 new games are going to be 9 vs.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
24, 10 vs.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
23… 11 versus 22, it's not the quarterfinals and semifinals.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
It's the opening round with lower seats.
Speaker 6 (18:13):
But they have to know what the money is before
they can make a final decision. The only way to
know what the money is is to trigger this clause
with ESPN.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Crazy.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
All right, John, before you go, 2-1 on the air
so far this year. You picked two games a week ago.
You split them with USC and UW to get to 3-1.
Who do you like this week, big boy?
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Boy, I am going to go with the biggest game
of the week. In fact, the biggest game of the season.
Non-conference Texas, Ohio State. Which, by the way, if there's
a 2014 playoff, Texas versus Ohio State doesn't mean nearly
as much. I will take the Longhorns. And I don't
even know what the number is.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Give me Texas.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
One and a half. Longhorns are given one and a half.
Got a win by two.
Speaker 7 (18:59):
All right.
Speaker 5 (19:00):
We're going to take Texas minus the points against Ohio
State in Austin.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
John, you're the man. Great stuff. And we will talk
in a week.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
Who knows what news we will be discussing next week
on this segment, right?
Speaker 4 (19:11):
You said it.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
All right.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
See you, man.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Thanks a lot, guys.
Speaker 5 (19:13):
John Willner with us on the radio show likes the
Longhorns against Ohio State.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
We're going to break.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
We're going to hear a little bit from Dan Wilson,
a little bit from Gabe Spire as well. Larry Stone
at 6, Brian Schmetzer at 545 on 93.3 KJRFM.
This is Duke of Duke Seafood, letting you know that
this hour of Softie and Dick on your home for
the Huskies and Kraken is proudly brought to you by
Duke Seafood. Why not make it a Duke's night tonight?
Reserve your table today at dukesseafood.com. on Sports Radio 93.3
KJR FM.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It's time for our weekly Pac-12 conversation with San Jose
Mercury News reporter John Wilner, brought to you by Simply Seattle.
Our friends at SimplySeattle.com have the most amazing collection of
all things Seattle. Seahawks gear, UW hats, and the largest
selection of Sonics.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Gear anywhere in the world.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Learn more at SimplySeattle.com.
Speaker 5 (00:38):
All right, by the way, I'm going to check my
text here from the famous Addy and Caleb combination over
there at Simply Seattle. They have new Banner Night memorabilia.
I guess that's the championship banner?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
To specifically highlight. They will also be promoting.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
They want to check out their store pregame, First &
Pine and Pier 54, for a lot of discounts, by
the way. So if there's new banner night memorabilia, you're
a Hawk fan, stop by the First & Pine and
the Pier 54 Simply Seattle locations on your way to
the game. If you're buying something on the website, always
use code KJR15 for 15% off anything at simplyseattle.com. Here
(01:19):
he is, the Pope of the Pack, the Big Ten
Baron himself, our friend John Wilner. joining us on the
radio program. Johnny, how are you?
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I'm pretty good, thanks. How are you guys?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Yeah, good, man.
Speaker 5 (01:30):
You sound exhausted. I mean, there is a lot of
news today. You and I were joking offline about the
amount of news that was put out today. I mean,
I guess we can talk about the CFP weighing in
on the 2014 playoff, the Western Michigan-Michigan ending from Saturday.
I saw where Lance Taylor, who was the head coach
at Western Michigan, was named the Bear Bryant Coach of
(01:51):
the Week today.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Even though he lost to Michigan. It's got to be
a first.
Speaker 5 (01:55):
Michigan falls 12 spots out of the AP poll after
getting bailed out by instant replay and hitting a Hail Mary. So,
I mean, just give us the update on where we
are with that thing. And is there any precedent that
you can remember, John, in college football for a game
being overturned like Western Michigan wants this one being overturned
(02:18):
from Saturday?
Speaker 6 (02:20):
Yeah, boy, events are moving quickly on this story. So
this morning, the Mac basically said, forget, forget our comment
from the other day. We want the outcome overturned because
the big 10 screwed up and they are going to,
they were going to appeal to the football oversight committee,
which is part of the NCAA umbrella. The bottom line
(02:40):
is there is no mechanism within the NCAA rule book
to actually change the outcome of a game once the
lead official has signaled that the game is over.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
So they are not going to get it overturned.
Speaker 6 (02:57):
I'm sure a lot of people think if the situation
had been reversed, Michigan would find a way, the Big
Ten would find a way to get it overturned, but
it is going to remain a Michigan victory. Now, the
more important piece is that the NCAA has also clarified
the timing issue because that is the biggest problem.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
There were two clocks. The instant replay was using one clock.
Speaker 6 (03:22):
The public was using the other clock that we see
on the broadcast and it's in the stadium. You can't
have two clocks, right? That is a recipe for a massive,
massive scandal. So the NCAA today is sending out information
to all the conferences.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
This is according to The Athletic that One clock should
be used, and it is the clock that we see
on TV.
Speaker 6 (03:49):
You can't have the officials in the replay booth or
the command center using a separate clock. The official clock
is what the viewing public in the stadium and on
TV will see. That is a huge development, closing a
loophole that obviously caused this huge controversy.
Speaker 7 (04:08):
John, you used the phrase, if the situation were reversed,
and you referred to Michigan maybe potentially winning an appeal
if the situation reversed. My question is, do you think
if the situation was reversed and it was Western Michigan
with the ball down in the game, would the Big
Ten gone to such great lengths to find an extra
(04:29):
zero or a one on the clock to have it
be a do-over?
Speaker 4 (04:36):
I can't answer that one, but it's a hell of
a question. You know, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (04:41):
And that's part of the problem. And you saw that
as soon as this happened, there were the calls. And
we've heard these calls before, and I happen to agree
with them. And I think Rick Neuheisel is, like, leading
the charge for this. You know, nationalize the officiating, right?
Like the NFL has, you would avoid this kind of
stuff where the integrity of the game and the competition
(05:03):
is called into question. You know, what I said earlier
was a little bit in jest only because, you know,
the Big Ten is so powerful in college sports and
the MAAC is obviously not. But yeah, I think everybody
has a perfectly reasonable right to think, well, you never
know what would happen if Western Michigan had had the
(05:24):
incomplete pass with the clock at zero.
Speaker 5 (05:27):
Well, I just think, I wonder how much of this
took a turn when Mike Pereira went on with Joel
Klatt yesterday and said exactly what the Mac is saying now,
that if there is a discrepancy, you're supposed to use
the clock in the program feed. And that's what the
Mac statement included today. I saw that from Nicole Arbach,
(05:48):
that she put that out. And I wonder how much
of this was spurned, John, by what Mike Pereira told
Joel Klatt yesterday.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Oh, I'm sure.
Speaker 6 (05:56):
And, you know, Pereira told either Fox or the ESPN, somebody,
I think two days ago even, that if this had
happened in the NFL, the NFL would go with the
clock that's on TV, that's in the stadium, that you
have to revert, you have to default to the public
(06:18):
clock so that.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
There are no integrity issues. And that is– he is
exactly right.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
And I'm sure that that helps spur the MAAC to
push this thing further.
Speaker 7 (06:29):
John, I loved what you and the rest of the
AP did in the polls this week.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
I mean– What did I do?
Speaker 7 (06:34):
Well, it just– the fact that Michigan, in a win,
dropped from 16th to 28th in the polls, the fact
that Oregon, in a win, dropped from 2nd to 6th,
that seems to me like a new phenomenon.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
UW.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
UW dropped two spots.
Speaker 7 (06:49):
But, I mean, it– I can't remember teams dropping significantly
like Michigan and Oregon in the past after wins.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Is that kind of a new phenomenon?
Speaker 6 (07:02):
It is not for me, and that's why I'm consistently
voted the worst pollster.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
I've been doing that for years. I love it.
Speaker 6 (07:12):
I moved teams up. I moved Boise into my poll,
into my ballot.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
They looked good.
Speaker 6 (07:19):
I moved Oregon down like eight spots. I moved Boise
to like 17th. I dropped the Huskies. I can't remember,
maybe four or five. Michigan is out of my ballot.
I've got Western Michigan is in because I counted that
as a win for Western Michigan.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
So I've been doing that for years.
Speaker 6 (07:36):
I think you have to account for how competitive the
game is and what the competition level is. And if
you're Boise and you're unranked and you go to Eugene
and you basically play even with the Ducks for 60 minutes,
I think you should be ranked. Whereas if you're the
Huskies and you're, what were they, 13, 14 last week?
(07:56):
and you struggle against a mediocre team and you're at home,
you should drop.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
I viewed it like that forever.
Speaker 7 (08:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Yeah, well, the Huskies situation was disturbing. That's not what
any of us thought. I mean, you had them covering
the 23-and-a-half easily, I think, when you were on the
air with us on Tuesday.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
By the way, you went 1-and-1. You got USC but
lost on UW.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
How surprised were you that in the third, early fourth
quarter of that game, it's a 10-7 lead for UW?
Speaker 6 (08:25):
Yep. Yeah, my jaw was on the floor at that point,
and it took a while to get it off. I mean,
with the continuity they have on offense, I was dumbfounded
that they struggled that much. And, you know, Washington State,
another new coach, another roster overhaul.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
UW's got everything going for it.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
Veteran quarterback, continuity with the play caller, good offensive line
at home.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
I mean, that was really... pretty if.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
I'm a husky fan i'm pretty concerned and uh yes
their defense played well but i also am not sure
how good washington state's offense is right.
Speaker 7 (09:04):
Well softy raised a good point about the continuity three
offensive linemen were making their first starts and you lost
your starting running back in what first quarter early second
quarter i mean and you lost a receiver as well
so i mean is that maybe in upon looking back
on it maybe tempers the negativity a little bit No.
Speaker 6 (09:29):
Just because my issue was not necessarily the running game.
It just didn't seem to me like DeMond Williams was
in any kind of rhythm or felt comfortable or was
seeing the field. He just didn't look like he'd made
any progress, to be honest. And I realize that he's
part of the whole, right?
Speaker 4 (09:50):
He needs protection. He needs to have running lanes. He's
got to have open receivers.
Speaker 6 (09:55):
I certainly do have some questions about the talent level
of their. playmakers and whether they've got enough high level
playmakers to win games against the best teams in the
big 10 but i just didn't think the offense was
in sync and it started with the quarterback and so
and and i i think that I'm just surprised by that,
(10:16):
given all the experience.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
No, I'm with you on the defense, too, by the way.
I think that's kind of what we expected to see,
especially against that quarterback. So, you know, I wasn't really
kind of impressed or concerned about anything. I did like
the fact that UW's young guns and Derek Coleman, Broussard, Ramzak, Fruin,
Jerron Jones all seemed to play pretty good, didn't look
over their skis at all.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
In that game.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
So that was a positive, you know, development. But one
thing for you to keep an eye on, man, their
running back room has been blown to smithereens. I mean,
there are two starters in Lamar and Quade Carr. They're
going to be out for a while. So they're going
to be going to the third, fourth, and fifth string guys.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
And I don't know, man.
Speaker 5 (10:57):
I mean, if they can't run the ball and people
are teeing off on DeMond Williams, this thing could go
south real quick. But John Wilner's with us. You've seen
USC now twice. San Jose State obliterated them. Fresno State
obliterated them. How much have we really learned about how
good or not good USC is in these first two games? I,
(11:17):
you know, a lot, a big part of me wants
to say, boy, they are a lot better.
Speaker 6 (11:22):
They have solved a lot of the issues they've had
on defense and the line of scrimmage. But then there's
also part of me that thinks, well, let's see what happens.
They still got to play what Oregon and Washington. I
think they play Ohio state and Michigan.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Right.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Their schedule is brute.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
Their schedule is absolutely brutal, which is why I don't
have USC in the playoff.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
So I am not convinced.
Speaker 6 (11:44):
I think that they're better, but I don't know how
much that's going to translate to a much better record.
I still see eight and four, nine and three because
of the schedule. And we just don't know that they're
going to hold up defensively. Gary Patterson's a really good coach,
but are they going to hold up defensively against the
best teams in the big 10 and the best offenses?
Speaker 4 (12:02):
I don't know. I just don't know.
Speaker 6 (12:04):
I think so much of it is Lincoln Riley's entire,
you know, disposition and the way.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
He coaches the program.
Speaker 6 (12:10):
It's so focused on offense and, fast speed and all
that i just i'm not convinced yet.
Speaker 7 (12:16):
John i think the luckiest guy in the state of
michigan is bryce underwood because if that ball is incomplete
and this whole clock snafu doesn't happen the entire focus
on that game is how bad bryce underwood was and
now almost nobody's talking about it how much jeopardy is
he in of losing his job i.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
Think some because kyle whittingham said yesterday that they are
you know he's got to play better or they're He
didn't use those words, but it was not a super
strong show of support for Underwood. And frankly, you know,
the Big Ten also owes the SEC a favor because
the SEC with this LSU thing has totally taken the
(12:56):
focus off of the Big Ten's officiating problem, right?
Speaker 4 (12:59):
The whole deal.
Speaker 6 (13:00):
This morning and all of a sudden everything changed away
from the Big Ten and towards the SEC in terms
of the media attention in college football.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Well, let's go there.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
CFP issuing a statement today saying that they're going to
move forward in evaluating a 2014 playoff. They're in discussions
with ESPN, which reminds you who really runs college football.
It's ESPN and Fox that run college football. So give
us your thoughts on the potential reality of a 2014 playoff.
Speaker 6 (13:33):
So this was actually a big deal, and it was
like the third or fourth playoff. story today. Uh, but the,
the CFP has triggered the 30 day negotiating window with ESPN,
which is the only way that they can really get
a handle on how much ESPN will be willing to
pay for 2014 playoff. And if the 30 days come
(13:55):
and go, and they don't have a satisfactory dollar figure
from ESPN, then they can take the play, the expanded playoff,
to the open market and see what they can get
from Fox and ESPN and CBS. So this doesn't signal
that they are definitely expanding to 24, but they can't
expand to 24 without doing this.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
And this tells me that they are planning to.
Speaker 6 (14:19):
And as early as next year, I think at this point, fans,
your listeners should start to think, yeah, there's going to
be a 2014 playoff next season.
Speaker 7 (14:28):
Is there any reason to pay attention to the SEC's
threat to boot out LSU? Or is this just, I mean,
Softie and I kind of feel like.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Oh, man. That, I mean, first of all, unprecedented.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
The only team that's been booted that I know of
is Temple got booted.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
From the Big East because they sucked at football too much. Right?
Speaker 6 (14:46):
Temple getting booted from the Big East is not quite
LSU getting booted from the SEC.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
It's never happened.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Right?
Speaker 4 (14:52):
You think about North Carolina academic scandal. Never happened. Baylor.
Speaker 6 (14:56):
Penn State, all the scandals, nobody's ever gotten this far
down the road of expulsion. That tells you how pissed
the SEC presidents and chancellors are at LSU.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Now, I don't think that they are going to go
through with it on.
Speaker 6 (15:11):
Thursday and actually vote LSU out. It would take 11
out of the 15. I think all 15 of them
are pissed at LSU, but I don't think they're going
to vote them out. I think they will sanction them.
They will warn them. They will put them on double
secret probation, whatever it is. I don't think they're going
to actually vote them out, but what they're doing is
they're sending a message because they don't want LSU doing
(15:34):
any hijinks with the pro players, but also they want
to show everybody that they can enforce their own rules
so that in a few years they can break away
from the NCAA and govern themselves.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
And the big 10 is going to do the same thing.
Speaker 6 (15:48):
If the, if the bill in the The Big Ten
and the SEC are going to form their own self-governing models,
and they're going to break away from the NCAA in
two or three years.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
And this is a key step along that process.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Well, let me go back.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
I mean, we can't just follow up on what you
just said a couple seconds ago. You said you think there's–
let me just make sure I heard you right. You
think there's a chance we see a 2014 playoff next season?
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 6 (16:14):
I think that now I would vote. I would say
it's better than 50-50 at this point. Okay.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Because this step.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
No, go ahead. Go ahead.
Speaker 6 (16:24):
This step, they have to do it along the protocols
for getting a new TV contract.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
For the extra 12 games, right?
Speaker 6 (16:34):
So they'd be going from 11 games currently to 23
games in a 2014 playoff. So those 12 new games,
they've got to figure out how much those are worth.
And they can't do that unless they trigger this negotiating
window with ESPN to force ESPN to say, here's how
much we'll pay.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
And then the CFP says, all right, well, we don't
want that. We're going to go to the market.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
Okay, so two questions. Do you like the 2014 playoff?
And then number two, the Big Ten championship game is
set for December 5th, 2026. Is this the last Big
Ten championship game this year?
Speaker 6 (17:13):
I think that there's probably, I would put 60% chance
that it's the last Big Ten championship game, yes.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
The championship games will go out.
Speaker 6 (17:21):
So what they're going to do, if it goes to 24,
they're going to end the regular season on Thanksgiving weekend.
They'll take a weekend off, except for Army-Navy, and then
they will start the 2014 playoff on what is now
Army-Navy and Heisman weekend.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
So the championship games are going to go away.
Speaker 6 (17:40):
The question is, will the 12 new games that they're
adding pay enough to offset losing the championship games? The
number they need to get is about $ 250 million for the.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
12 new games.
Speaker 6 (17:54):
The problem, the reason it's not completely assured is because
those 12 new games are going to be 9 vs.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
24, 10 vs.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
23… 11 versus 22, it's not the quarterfinals and semifinals.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
It's the opening round with lower seats.
Speaker 6 (18:13):
But they have to know what the money is before
they can make a final decision. The only way to
know what the money is is to trigger this clause
with ESPN.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Crazy.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
All right, John, before you go, 2-1 on the air
so far this year. You picked two games a week ago.
You split them with USC and UW to get to 3-1.
Who do you like this week, big boy?
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Boy, I am going to go with the biggest game
of the week. In fact, the biggest game of the season.
Non-conference Texas, Ohio State. Which, by the way, if there's
a 2014 playoff, Texas versus Ohio State doesn't mean nearly
as much. I will take the Longhorns. And I don't
even know what the number is.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Give me Texas.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
One and a half. Longhorns are given one and a half.
Got a win by two.
Speaker 7 (18:59):
All right.
Speaker 5 (19:00):
We're going to take Texas minus the points against Ohio
State in Austin.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
John, you're the man. Great stuff. And we will talk
in a week.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
Who knows what news we will be discussing next week
on this segment, right?
Speaker 4 (19:11):
You said it.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
All right.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
See you, man.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Thanks a lot, guys.
Speaker 5 (19:13):
John Willner with us on the radio show likes the
Longhorns against Ohio State.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
We're going to break.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
We're going to hear a little bit from Dan Wilson,
a little bit from Gabe Spire as well. Larry Stone
at 6, Brian Schmetzer at 545 on 93.3 KJRFM.
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