May 26, 2026 • 20 mins
Softy and Dick talk to Jon Wilner about the latest on NIL deals. Also, would college football players ever unionize? Will the 24-team playoff result in tougher schedules? Is Jedd Fisch in control of his football program?
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time for our weekly Pac twelve conversation with Senjose
Mercury News reporter John Wilner, brought to you by Simply Seattle.
Our friends at simply Seattle dot com have the most
amazing collection of all things Seattle Seahawks gear UW had
some of the largest selection of sonics gear anywhere in
the world.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Learn more at simply Seattle dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
All right, Vick, thanks for our friends at simply Seattle
dot com. Whatever you get your eyes on Seahawk gear
for the fall World Cup gear. Still browsing their selection
of Super Bowl Championship gear. I'd be sure in use
code sofia at check out for fifteen percent off anything. Actually,
I'm sorry, there's too many codes. It's code KJR fifteen.
By the way, softee is at venue kings code KJR
(00:42):
fifteen for fifteen percent off anything at simply Seattle dot com.
Here he is the Pope of the pack, the Big
twelve and Big ten baron our friend Johnny Wilner.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
John, how are you Moon.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
I'm good? Thanks?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
How you guys good? How is the kids at graduation
party today?
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (01:00):
Well boy, that's nice if you asked, Yeah, it was good.
My son graduated from middle school. The ceremony was today
and uh he got out, you know, three years and out.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Now we got high school waiting for us.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I love school graduation.
Speaker 6 (01:12):
God, I don't think I have to sit through one
of those in a couple of weeks because my daughter's
graduating too.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
But I don't think we're doing it.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I don't remember doing a junior high or middle school graduation.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Is that Is that a new thing, John? Or has
that been going on behind our backs for a while.
Speaker 5 (01:25):
Oh, it's, you know, one of those things from woke California.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, hundred. You know, at least you own it. At
least you're freaking own it down there, man. Good for you, Johnny.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Well John Patient Trophy.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Everybody gets one man John Wilner with us and John,
we're going to talk off the air, but didn't get
the shot, and I'm kind of glad we didn't because
I want to kind of hit you with a curveball here.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Uh I I heard today because.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I was wondering how many ub football players are on
multi year ANIL deals, right, Like, are we gonna do
this whole same song and dance again? Potentially with Devon Williams,
you know, next, next win, And the answer I got
today was nobody. They don't have any players at least
on the football team that are on multi year nil contracts.
(02:09):
How unique is that around college football?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
You think?
Speaker 5 (02:13):
I think that a lot of schools are starting to
do that as much as they can, to kind of
lock guys in, because the thing is, you know, the
more often their NIL deals expire, the more susceptible they
are either to leaving, The more likely they are to
either leave or ask for more, because the thing is,
(02:34):
the market is soaring right last year, you know, the
top rosters were forty million, and that's nil plus REP share,
and I think this year there's going to be fifty.
So the way the market is going, you are much
better off locking a guy in at the present day
great than having to deal with going going back and
(02:54):
starting all over again in nine to twelve.
Speaker 6 (02:57):
Months, John, We've got the meetings and a couple of conferences,
SEC and Big twelve.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I'll start with the SEC.
Speaker 6 (03:03):
I thought Mike Elko's comment was interesting about the expansion
of the of the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
And you responded to it as well.
Speaker 6 (03:11):
You kind of are on the same wavelength as the
Texas A and M coach.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
I mean, how long have they been talking about playoff expansion?
Speaker 5 (03:21):
And he's the first coach or athletic director or even
conference commissioner I've seen to admit that nobody involved actually
has the good of the game as their motivation.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Right. The coaches are motivated out of self interest.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
More teams in the playoff improves their chances of getting
in the playoff, which improves.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Their job security. Right.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
It doesn't mean just because the coaches in ads want it,
that it's the best thing for the sport, Right, But
they are driving the discussion, the campuses are driving the
discussion and they want more access.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
That doesn't mean it's the right thing.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
So it was I thought it was great that Elko,
who's a very honest guy, finally said what nobody else
is willing to say. We're not talking about the good
of the game. We're talking about our own self interest.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well, and you know, more money to pay these guys.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I mean, this goes back to the conversation we had
about you know, locking guys in at market rate right now.
And you know, the more money you commit to players
long term, the more money you need in the coffers.
So it's not surprising that some programs, you know, like
you Dub and others want the playoff to be expanded.
But like, I'm looking at a list that was put
out by by Fox Sports guy. When was this? This
(04:31):
was back in May? It was last week, sorry, Joel Klatt.
Somebody else came out the list of the highest paid
rosters Texas forty eight million, Miami forty four, O Higo
State forty three, LSU forty two. And the point was
made today to me by somebody that, hey, most of
that money is either garbage money, meaning it's they they
(04:53):
cheat to get there, or it's not really there in reality,
it's inflated by teams to make themselves look like they're
spending a lot of money. Because this person I talked
to said, there's no way the NCAA clearing house is
going to approve thirty million dollars in NIL money when
schools are using fifteen in rev share and then doubling that,
(05:15):
if not almost tripling that with the nil world. So
how much of this is is is breaking the rules
and how much of this is just total nonsense in
your mind?
Speaker 5 (05:25):
Well, there's certainly some dead money involved in those figures,
there's no question about that. But what has happened is
the Big Ten in the SEC have put so much
money into the College Sports Commission. Now remember that is
the organization that was created last summer to base as
a clearing house to judge the legitimacy of the NIL deals.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
The SEC of Big Ten.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
There's more than one hundred million dollars worth of deals
that are clogged up in the pipeline that have not
been approved and that may not be approved. So School X,
you know, and I mean I don't want to pick
any names specifically, but School X could have ten or
twenty million dollars worth of promised NILE payments to players
(06:12):
that actually has not been approved yet. And so what's
happened is the players aren't getting the money that has
been promised to them right because it's clogged up. And
that is causing a lot of frustration in the SEC
and the Big Ten, and it's one of the reasons
that those two leagues are talking about breaking away from
the NCA.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Well, we have Patch on with us. It was it
last week, Dick.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
He was on with us Patch on the ad called
in from the Big Ten meetings Actually it was back
in town this after the Big Ten meetings ended, and
we've talked about the idea of the players forming a
union so that a deal could be collectively bargained, and
he said, why would players do that?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Right now? They're getting whatever they want whenever they want.
Do you agree with that?
Speaker 5 (06:55):
Yeah, that's my contention is this is the best time
ever to be a college athlete in football and men's basketball.
They're getting scholarships, they're getting revenue share, they're getting nil,
and they're getting under the table money because that's still
out there so and they can transfer as many times
as they want, whenever they want and be eligible immediately.
(07:15):
So the NCAA has screwed up so bad that I
don't know that the athletes would agree to collectively bargain
even if the presidents decided let's do it. And that
is one of the things that the Big Ten and
the SEC are kind of inching closer to, is a
world in which they break away from the NCAA and
they try to collectively bargain with the athletes to get
(07:37):
structure on salaries, transfer, portal, competition, calendar, all that kind
of stuff.
Speaker 6 (07:44):
So then if I'm hearing you right, John. It's almost
like we're gonna let the salaries just explode over the
next few years like they have over the last couple
of years, knowing that only the Big ten and the
SEC can keep up with the arms rais and that's
going to allow those two conferences to break away.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Is that Is that how it's going to end?
Speaker 5 (08:07):
Well, that's kind of what's happening. Yeah, I mean, there's
nothing there's no way to stop the escalation of the
roster finances, right whether it's a forty million dollars, some
people think there's going to be one hundred million dollar
rosters by the end of the decade, you know, and
the Big ten and the SEC are the only conferences.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
That can really afford it to the extent that they
even can.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
But the gap between those two and everybody else is
growing exponentially, and they want to play by one set
of rules. They're frustrated that more than one hundred million
dollars in NIL is clogged up. Meanwhile, the ACC and
Big twelve are saying, well, this is the rules you
all created, and now you're frustrated by them and you
(08:53):
want to break away. So everybody is getting frustrated and
we're we're getting closer to a breaking point. CC means
this week they are talking about what self governance would
look like. In other words, the SECCA we're done with
the NCAA. We're going to create our own rules. And
the Big Ten is.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
Also talking about that just a little bit more quietly.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Well, John willers with us, and you know, not to
go down a rabbitle here, but I was just reading
about the history of the NFLPA because it kind of
got me thinking about, Okay, if there's going to be
a player's union, for example, that forms, who's going to
be the one to initiate that? Right, Like, there's some
lawyer approach a group of players and say spread the
word dear buddy, Like the NFLPA. In the nineteen fifties,
(09:38):
a guy named Dante Levelli, who was a guy that
played for the Browns, was he was thirty three and
he went to a lawyer to you know, start talking
about things like insurance claims, and that apparently is how
in some ways the NFLPA was formed. So if the
players were to do something like that, would it come
down to, Hey, you know, maybe some of the older
guys like I don't know what Dante Moore for example,
(10:01):
Arch Manning, for example, someone who's been around the game
at least a couple of years, would then call their
pals on a on a text thread and say, hey,
let's go talk to a lawyer and see if we
can find a way to galvanize here. How would that
even start if the players wanted to do something like.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
That, Well, there's already organizations out there that are trying
to represent players. Brandon Copeland is a former NFL player
who's got I think he has athletes dot Org. And
there's a bunch of attorneys who are often on Twitter
that are representing athletes in NIL cases against schools. So
(10:39):
there's a lot of people that are already talking about
this and already trying to lay the groundwork. I think
it would start from It would start externally with an
attorney or someone who is on the business side and
then is able to convince enough players to do it.
I don't know that it would start the you know,
(10:59):
or organically from the at the players level.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Got it?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Who's the duke player basketball that years ago tried to
do something like that.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
When they're a guy?
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Was it Battier somebody like that? Tried to get the
players on board Obanon at Obanon or UCLA. Who was
the Was there a player back in the day? Was
it Obannon?
Speaker 5 (11:19):
I well, Obannon is the one who started all this. Yeah,
his lawsuit against the NC double all over the EA
Sports cover led to nil. But there have been a
bunch of players in the past. I think it might
have been Shane Battier was talking about it. I mean,
you know who's a huge proponent all this is Jay
billis uh, you know on at least on the basketball side.
(11:41):
But it's it's going to happen eventually. It's just going
to be at what point relative to where the you know,
the conference structure and realignment exists when it all begins.
Speaker 6 (11:54):
Well, let's talk about it from the other perspective, the
Big twelves perspective, because their meetings are going on right
now now. I saw the Iowa State a D saying
let them break away. So they're already starting to get
mad over there. So what's the talking points at the
Big twelve meetings and what's the defcon level of the
Big twelve right now?
Speaker 5 (12:15):
Well, the talking point there is, you know, as in
with the SEC, it's the twenty fourteen playoff and the
same with the Big Ten twenty fourteen playoff or not,
a breakaway by the Big Big Ten in SEC or not.
And then for the Big Twelve, a lot of it
is how can we get more money? Because the Big
twelve just release their financials and they have schools that
(12:38):
are thirty thirty five million dollars behind the schools in
the SEC and Big Ten in terms of what they're
generating from on an annual basis, right, and that gap
is just going to keep growing. It's going to keep
getting bigger. And let's not forget the upcoming season is
the first year of the new college football Playoff contract
(12:59):
with ESPN that is going to You're not going to
get paid based on whether you make the playoff or not.
Everybody's getting paid automatically. Every school in the Big Ten
is going to get twenty one million bucks, every school
in the Big twelve is going to get thirteen million,
Every school in the SEC is going to get twenty
three million. So that's just going to increase the gap
(13:20):
that already exists.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
And the only schools that.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
Are in the Big twelve they will be able to
afford to compete or like Texas Tech or BYU because
they got all that private money.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Well, the other topic with Shun a week ago, we
talked about that twenty four team playoff, and I think
you were the one that kind of was wondering, you know,
what will they do to maybe increase the attractiveness of
the September schedule. Now, UDUB only has two non conference
games to choose from for now because they've got Wazoo
as one of them, so they're down one. But Shun's point,
(13:50):
I think was that hey, we're going to make strength
to schedule a gigantic part of the criteria and basically,
for lack of a term, force teams or highly in
courage teams to play tougher non conference schedules.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I mean, you've written about that, you've talked about that.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Do you think the twenty fourteen playoff will result in
stronger schedules for fans in September?
Speaker 5 (14:13):
I am very skeptical, right, I totally get what Pat
Shun is saying, and I think that there's a chance
that they are going to try to do something like
that in terms of codifying schedule strength into the selection
process to a much greater extent than it already is.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
But I just am thinking about it from the coaches perspective.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
Right the coach is saying, I'm going to schedule three cupcakes.
I'm gonna be three and zero. And if I can
go six and three in my conference and I finished
nine and three, I got a hell of a chance
to get in a twenty fourteen playoff. Why would I
make my path more difficult?
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Now?
Speaker 5 (14:47):
The ad may pushback and say, well, we need quality
games because that will help us sell tickets to non
conference and all that kind of thing. But I've just
am thinking about it the coaches, no coach, No coach
wants to make things tougher on himself if a playoff, Berth.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Is at the end of the rainbow. So I'm just
skeptical about it.
Speaker 5 (15:05):
And the thing is, if they go to twenty four
and then non conference schedules don't improve, that's the worst
of both worlds.
Speaker 6 (15:13):
John I made the comment last hour about our two
major sports teams, two of our big two biggest sports teams,
I should say here in Seattle, the Mariners and the Seahawks.
I just said, you know, the organization and the head
coach one of them seems like they know what the
hell they're doing, and in Mike mcdonald' softy called them
like a cozy little blanket, like you just know that
he knows what he's.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Doing over there, and the other one in the Mariners,
I just don't know what.
Speaker 6 (15:38):
The hell they're if they know what the hell they're doing.
And I made the comment I said, you know, I
feel like I feel Jed Fish is in the Seahawks category.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
I feel like he knows what the hell he's doing.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 6 (15:47):
Not that he's a super Bowl championship caliber coach at
this point, I'm just saying that he knows how to
run a football program.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
He's in control, yes, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Yeah, I would agree with that.
Speaker 5 (15:59):
And he's the thing is he's shown he could do
what he did in Arizona in much more difficult circumstances.
But the thing that Fish is facing that the other
those guys aren't is they're playing from behind because they're
thirty million bucks behind everybody else in their conference except
for Oregon, right, I mean they the NFL guys, they're
all what you got, everybody basically pays the same and
(16:21):
then you.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Got the what the version of a luxury tax in
the NFL.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
I don't even know what's a salary. It's just a
hard cap, a hard cap. So, but Washington doesn't have that.
They have this huge deficit that they're playing with, and
I think that that's that makes it a lot more
difficult for Fish, even though he may be just as competent, right,
he's got more difficult circumstances to deal with.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Well, okay, and here's here's my retort to that. Not
that you asked or give a damn, but I'm gonna
tell you anyway, right, So my retort to that would
be this Number one, the amount of money that you
dub And if I'm wrong on any of this, please
interrupt me. The amount of money Dub is making on
a yearly basis from the Big ten, although not what
their counterparts are getting in the Big ten is, is
(17:06):
still better than what they would have gotten if they
had stayed in the old PAC twelve number one and
number two. There's also, from a revshare perspective, still only
a certain amount of money every team can spend. So
I guess my question is this the extra money Michigan's
getting the extra money, Ohio State's getting the extra money,
Penn State is getting. What does that buy Penn State,
(17:30):
Ohio State, and Michigan that U DUBB can't buy because
there's a limit on revshare that's twenty million bucks that's
for all sports, and then everything NIL has to get
cleared by the clearinghouse program. And that's mostly about third
party donations alumni, you know, people like that, fans donating.
(17:53):
What are those other schools getting full shares spending their
money on that you DUB is not getting.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Well.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
I would say that U doesn't have as much money
for operations, so they need to devote more fundraising and
external dollars to handling basic operations and aren't able to
put as much into NIL.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
That would be one.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
Kind of pathway to explaining what the difference in the
rev share or the.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Revenue distributions mean.
Speaker 5 (18:31):
Right, Washington's got a fund operations with money that the
other schools have thirty million dollars more of that, so
they can they can divert donations to the roster in
a better, in a more efficient way.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Now, in terms of the PAC twelve, it's.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
Really complicated because is Washington better off, well, yes, but
not better off than it would have been if USC
and UCLA had stared, And are they better off if
UCLA alone had stayed That's another question. And then I mean,
the whole playoff thing is different because the PAC twelve
fell apart. Let's remember, the Big ten in the SEC
(19:12):
have a level of dominance that would not exist if
Washington and Oregon were still in a thriving PAC twelve,
because Washington and oregon success over ten years of the
playoff was part of how they decided.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
How much money the Big ten was going to get.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
Yeah, Washington and Oregon are making money for the Big
ten from the playoff revenue model based on how they
did in.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
The PAC twelve.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Well, I smell a column, all right, I smell a column.
That might be me, but I smell a column.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I think that.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
I want to get you to write for the paper,
break it down, detail by detail what those other teams
can do with the extra money that they're getting from
the Big ten that schools like Washington can't do. So
not to tell you how to do your job. Would
I would read that if you want. But he kind
of is, all right, I'd read that, John, all right,
I'd read it.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
John. A great talking point. That's a great talking point.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Here, the man, great stuff and we're talking a week buddy,
Thanks a lot, all right, John Wilner with us. Uh.
Normally we do this at three forty five, but we
moved it back a little bit today. Have a little
fun with audio. Hey did you hear that? Coming up
next on ninety three three kJ R f M
It's time for our weekly Pac twelve conversation with Senjose
Mercury News reporter John Wilner, brought to you by Simply Seattle.
Our friends at simply Seattle dot com have the most
amazing collection of all things Seattle Seahawks gear UW had
some of the largest selection of sonics gear anywhere in
the world.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Learn more at simply Seattle dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
All right, Vick, thanks for our friends at simply Seattle
dot com. Whatever you get your eyes on Seahawk gear
for the fall World Cup gear. Still browsing their selection
of Super Bowl Championship gear. I'd be sure in use
code sofia at check out for fifteen percent off anything. Actually,
I'm sorry, there's too many codes. It's code KJR fifteen.
By the way, softee is at venue kings code KJR
(00:42):
fifteen for fifteen percent off anything at simply Seattle dot com.
Here he is the Pope of the pack, the Big
twelve and Big ten baron our friend Johnny Wilner.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
John, how are you Moon.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
I'm good? Thanks?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
How you guys good? How is the kids at graduation
party today?
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (01:00):
Well boy, that's nice if you asked, Yeah, it was good.
My son graduated from middle school. The ceremony was today
and uh he got out, you know, three years and out.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Now we got high school waiting for us.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I love school graduation.
Speaker 6 (01:12):
God, I don't think I have to sit through one
of those in a couple of weeks because my daughter's
graduating too.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
But I don't think we're doing it.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I don't remember doing a junior high or middle school graduation.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Is that Is that a new thing, John? Or has
that been going on behind our backs for a while.
Speaker 5 (01:25):
Oh, it's, you know, one of those things from woke California.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, hundred. You know, at least you own it. At
least you're freaking own it down there, man. Good for you, Johnny.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Well John Patient Trophy.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Everybody gets one man John Wilner with us and John,
we're going to talk off the air, but didn't get
the shot, and I'm kind of glad we didn't because
I want to kind of hit you with a curveball here.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Uh I I heard today because.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I was wondering how many ub football players are on
multi year ANIL deals, right, Like, are we gonna do
this whole same song and dance again? Potentially with Devon Williams,
you know, next, next win, And the answer I got
today was nobody. They don't have any players at least
on the football team that are on multi year nil contracts.
(02:09):
How unique is that around college football?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
You think?
Speaker 5 (02:13):
I think that a lot of schools are starting to
do that as much as they can, to kind of
lock guys in, because the thing is, you know, the
more often their NIL deals expire, the more susceptible they
are either to leaving, The more likely they are to
either leave or ask for more, because the thing is,
(02:34):
the market is soaring right last year, you know, the
top rosters were forty million, and that's nil plus REP share,
and I think this year there's going to be fifty.
So the way the market is going, you are much
better off locking a guy in at the present day
great than having to deal with going going back and
(02:54):
starting all over again in nine to twelve.
Speaker 6 (02:57):
Months, John, We've got the meetings and a couple of conferences,
SEC and Big twelve.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I'll start with the SEC.
Speaker 6 (03:03):
I thought Mike Elko's comment was interesting about the expansion
of the of the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
And you responded to it as well.
Speaker 6 (03:11):
You kind of are on the same wavelength as the
Texas A and M coach.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
I mean, how long have they been talking about playoff expansion?
Speaker 5 (03:21):
And he's the first coach or athletic director or even
conference commissioner I've seen to admit that nobody involved actually
has the good of the game as their motivation.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Right. The coaches are motivated out of self interest.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
More teams in the playoff improves their chances of getting
in the playoff, which improves.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Their job security. Right.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
It doesn't mean just because the coaches in ads want it,
that it's the best thing for the sport, Right, But
they are driving the discussion, the campuses are driving the
discussion and they want more access.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
That doesn't mean it's the right thing.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
So it was I thought it was great that Elko,
who's a very honest guy, finally said what nobody else
is willing to say. We're not talking about the good
of the game. We're talking about our own self interest.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well, and you know, more money to pay these guys.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I mean, this goes back to the conversation we had
about you know, locking guys in at market rate right now.
And you know, the more money you commit to players
long term, the more money you need in the coffers.
So it's not surprising that some programs, you know, like
you Dub and others want the playoff to be expanded.
But like, I'm looking at a list that was put
out by by Fox Sports guy. When was this? This
(04:31):
was back in May? It was last week, sorry, Joel Klatt.
Somebody else came out the list of the highest paid
rosters Texas forty eight million, Miami forty four, O Higo
State forty three, LSU forty two. And the point was
made today to me by somebody that, hey, most of
that money is either garbage money, meaning it's they they
(04:53):
cheat to get there, or it's not really there in reality,
it's inflated by teams to make themselves look like they're
spending a lot of money. Because this person I talked
to said, there's no way the NCAA clearing house is
going to approve thirty million dollars in NIL money when
schools are using fifteen in rev share and then doubling that,
(05:15):
if not almost tripling that with the nil world. So
how much of this is is is breaking the rules
and how much of this is just total nonsense in
your mind?
Speaker 5 (05:25):
Well, there's certainly some dead money involved in those figures,
there's no question about that. But what has happened is
the Big Ten in the SEC have put so much
money into the College Sports Commission. Now remember that is
the organization that was created last summer to base as
a clearing house to judge the legitimacy of the NIL deals.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
The SEC of Big Ten.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
There's more than one hundred million dollars worth of deals
that are clogged up in the pipeline that have not
been approved and that may not be approved. So School X,
you know, and I mean I don't want to pick
any names specifically, but School X could have ten or
twenty million dollars worth of promised NILE payments to players
(06:12):
that actually has not been approved yet. And so what's
happened is the players aren't getting the money that has
been promised to them right because it's clogged up. And
that is causing a lot of frustration in the SEC
and the Big Ten, and it's one of the reasons
that those two leagues are talking about breaking away from
the NCA.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Well, we have Patch on with us. It was it
last week, Dick.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
He was on with us Patch on the ad called
in from the Big Ten meetings Actually it was back
in town this after the Big Ten meetings ended, and
we've talked about the idea of the players forming a
union so that a deal could be collectively bargained, and
he said, why would players do that?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Right now? They're getting whatever they want whenever they want.
Do you agree with that?
Speaker 5 (06:55):
Yeah, that's my contention is this is the best time
ever to be a college athlete in football and men's basketball.
They're getting scholarships, they're getting revenue share, they're getting nil,
and they're getting under the table money because that's still
out there so and they can transfer as many times
as they want, whenever they want and be eligible immediately.
(07:15):
So the NCAA has screwed up so bad that I
don't know that the athletes would agree to collectively bargain
even if the presidents decided let's do it. And that
is one of the things that the Big Ten and
the SEC are kind of inching closer to, is a
world in which they break away from the NCAA and
they try to collectively bargain with the athletes to get
(07:37):
structure on salaries, transfer, portal, competition, calendar, all that kind
of stuff.
Speaker 6 (07:44):
So then if I'm hearing you right, John. It's almost
like we're gonna let the salaries just explode over the
next few years like they have over the last couple
of years, knowing that only the Big ten and the
SEC can keep up with the arms rais and that's
going to allow those two conferences to break away.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Is that Is that how it's going to end?
Speaker 5 (08:07):
Well, that's kind of what's happening. Yeah, I mean, there's
nothing there's no way to stop the escalation of the
roster finances, right whether it's a forty million dollars, some
people think there's going to be one hundred million dollar
rosters by the end of the decade, you know, and
the Big ten and the SEC are the only conferences.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
That can really afford it to the extent that they
even can.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
But the gap between those two and everybody else is
growing exponentially, and they want to play by one set
of rules. They're frustrated that more than one hundred million
dollars in NIL is clogged up. Meanwhile, the ACC and
Big twelve are saying, well, this is the rules you
all created, and now you're frustrated by them and you
(08:53):
want to break away. So everybody is getting frustrated and
we're we're getting closer to a breaking point. CC means
this week they are talking about what self governance would
look like. In other words, the SECCA we're done with
the NCAA. We're going to create our own rules. And
the Big Ten is.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
Also talking about that just a little bit more quietly.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Well, John willers with us, and you know, not to
go down a rabbitle here, but I was just reading
about the history of the NFLPA because it kind of
got me thinking about, Okay, if there's going to be
a player's union, for example, that forms, who's going to
be the one to initiate that? Right, Like, there's some
lawyer approach a group of players and say spread the
word dear buddy, Like the NFLPA. In the nineteen fifties,
(09:38):
a guy named Dante Levelli, who was a guy that
played for the Browns, was he was thirty three and
he went to a lawyer to you know, start talking
about things like insurance claims, and that apparently is how
in some ways the NFLPA was formed. So if the
players were to do something like that, would it come
down to, Hey, you know, maybe some of the older
guys like I don't know what Dante Moore for example,
(10:01):
Arch Manning, for example, someone who's been around the game
at least a couple of years, would then call their
pals on a on a text thread and say, hey,
let's go talk to a lawyer and see if we
can find a way to galvanize here. How would that
even start if the players wanted to do something like.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
That, Well, there's already organizations out there that are trying
to represent players. Brandon Copeland is a former NFL player
who's got I think he has athletes dot Org. And
there's a bunch of attorneys who are often on Twitter
that are representing athletes in NIL cases against schools. So
(10:39):
there's a lot of people that are already talking about
this and already trying to lay the groundwork. I think
it would start from It would start externally with an
attorney or someone who is on the business side and
then is able to convince enough players to do it.
I don't know that it would start the you know,
(10:59):
or organically from the at the players level.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Got it?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Who's the duke player basketball that years ago tried to
do something like that.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
When they're a guy?
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Was it Battier somebody like that? Tried to get the
players on board Obanon at Obanon or UCLA. Who was
the Was there a player back in the day? Was
it Obannon?
Speaker 5 (11:19):
I well, Obannon is the one who started all this. Yeah,
his lawsuit against the NC double all over the EA
Sports cover led to nil. But there have been a
bunch of players in the past. I think it might
have been Shane Battier was talking about it. I mean,
you know who's a huge proponent all this is Jay
billis uh, you know on at least on the basketball side.
(11:41):
But it's it's going to happen eventually. It's just going
to be at what point relative to where the you know,
the conference structure and realignment exists when it all begins.
Speaker 6 (11:54):
Well, let's talk about it from the other perspective, the
Big twelves perspective, because their meetings are going on right
now now. I saw the Iowa State a D saying
let them break away. So they're already starting to get
mad over there. So what's the talking points at the
Big twelve meetings and what's the defcon level of the
Big twelve right now?
Speaker 5 (12:15):
Well, the talking point there is, you know, as in
with the SEC, it's the twenty fourteen playoff and the
same with the Big Ten twenty fourteen playoff or not,
a breakaway by the Big Big Ten in SEC or not.
And then for the Big Twelve, a lot of it
is how can we get more money? Because the Big
twelve just release their financials and they have schools that
(12:38):
are thirty thirty five million dollars behind the schools in
the SEC and Big Ten in terms of what they're
generating from on an annual basis, right, and that gap
is just going to keep growing. It's going to keep
getting bigger. And let's not forget the upcoming season is
the first year of the new college football Playoff contract
(12:59):
with ESPN that is going to You're not going to
get paid based on whether you make the playoff or not.
Everybody's getting paid automatically. Every school in the Big Ten
is going to get twenty one million bucks, every school
in the Big twelve is going to get thirteen million,
Every school in the SEC is going to get twenty
three million. So that's just going to increase the gap
(13:20):
that already exists.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
And the only schools that.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
Are in the Big twelve they will be able to
afford to compete or like Texas Tech or BYU because
they got all that private money.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Well, the other topic with Shun a week ago, we
talked about that twenty four team playoff, and I think
you were the one that kind of was wondering, you know,
what will they do to maybe increase the attractiveness of
the September schedule. Now, UDUB only has two non conference
games to choose from for now because they've got Wazoo
as one of them, so they're down one. But Shun's point,
(13:50):
I think was that hey, we're going to make strength
to schedule a gigantic part of the criteria and basically,
for lack of a term, force teams or highly in
courage teams to play tougher non conference schedules.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I mean, you've written about that, you've talked about that.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Do you think the twenty fourteen playoff will result in
stronger schedules for fans in September?
Speaker 5 (14:13):
I am very skeptical, right, I totally get what Pat
Shun is saying, and I think that there's a chance
that they are going to try to do something like
that in terms of codifying schedule strength into the selection
process to a much greater extent than it already is.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
But I just am thinking about it from the coaches perspective.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
Right the coach is saying, I'm going to schedule three cupcakes.
I'm gonna be three and zero. And if I can
go six and three in my conference and I finished
nine and three, I got a hell of a chance
to get in a twenty fourteen playoff. Why would I
make my path more difficult?
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Now?
Speaker 5 (14:47):
The ad may pushback and say, well, we need quality
games because that will help us sell tickets to non
conference and all that kind of thing. But I've just
am thinking about it the coaches, no coach, No coach
wants to make things tougher on himself if a playoff, Berth.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Is at the end of the rainbow. So I'm just
skeptical about it.
Speaker 5 (15:05):
And the thing is, if they go to twenty four
and then non conference schedules don't improve, that's the worst
of both worlds.
Speaker 6 (15:13):
John I made the comment last hour about our two
major sports teams, two of our big two biggest sports teams,
I should say here in Seattle, the Mariners and the Seahawks.
I just said, you know, the organization and the head
coach one of them seems like they know what the
hell they're doing, and in Mike mcdonald' softy called them
like a cozy little blanket, like you just know that
he knows what he's.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Doing over there, and the other one in the Mariners,
I just don't know what.
Speaker 6 (15:38):
The hell they're if they know what the hell they're doing.
And I made the comment I said, you know, I
feel like I feel Jed Fish is in the Seahawks category.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
I feel like he knows what the hell he's doing.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 6 (15:47):
Not that he's a super Bowl championship caliber coach at
this point, I'm just saying that he knows how to
run a football program.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
He's in control, yes, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Yeah, I would agree with that.
Speaker 5 (15:59):
And he's the thing is he's shown he could do
what he did in Arizona in much more difficult circumstances.
But the thing that Fish is facing that the other
those guys aren't is they're playing from behind because they're
thirty million bucks behind everybody else in their conference except
for Oregon, right, I mean they the NFL guys, they're
all what you got, everybody basically pays the same and
(16:21):
then you.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Got the what the version of a luxury tax in
the NFL.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
I don't even know what's a salary. It's just a
hard cap, a hard cap. So, but Washington doesn't have that.
They have this huge deficit that they're playing with, and
I think that that's that makes it a lot more
difficult for Fish, even though he may be just as competent, right,
he's got more difficult circumstances to deal with.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Well, okay, and here's here's my retort to that. Not
that you asked or give a damn, but I'm gonna
tell you anyway, right, So my retort to that would
be this Number one, the amount of money that you
dub And if I'm wrong on any of this, please
interrupt me. The amount of money Dub is making on
a yearly basis from the Big ten, although not what
their counterparts are getting in the Big ten is, is
(17:06):
still better than what they would have gotten if they
had stayed in the old PAC twelve number one and
number two. There's also, from a revshare perspective, still only
a certain amount of money every team can spend. So
I guess my question is this the extra money Michigan's
getting the extra money, Ohio State's getting the extra money,
Penn State is getting. What does that buy Penn State,
(17:30):
Ohio State, and Michigan that U DUBB can't buy because
there's a limit on revshare that's twenty million bucks that's
for all sports, and then everything NIL has to get
cleared by the clearinghouse program. And that's mostly about third
party donations alumni, you know, people like that, fans donating.
(17:53):
What are those other schools getting full shares spending their
money on that you DUB is not getting.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Well.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
I would say that U doesn't have as much money
for operations, so they need to devote more fundraising and
external dollars to handling basic operations and aren't able to
put as much into NIL.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
That would be one.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
Kind of pathway to explaining what the difference in the
rev share or the.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Revenue distributions mean.
Speaker 5 (18:31):
Right, Washington's got a fund operations with money that the
other schools have thirty million dollars more of that, so
they can they can divert donations to the roster in
a better, in a more efficient way.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Now, in terms of the PAC twelve, it's.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
Really complicated because is Washington better off, well, yes, but
not better off than it would have been if USC
and UCLA had stared, And are they better off if
UCLA alone had stayed That's another question. And then I mean,
the whole playoff thing is different because the PAC twelve
fell apart. Let's remember, the Big ten in the SEC
(19:12):
have a level of dominance that would not exist if
Washington and Oregon were still in a thriving PAC twelve,
because Washington and oregon success over ten years of the
playoff was part of how they decided.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
How much money the Big ten was going to get.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
Yeah, Washington and Oregon are making money for the Big
ten from the playoff revenue model based on how they
did in.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
The PAC twelve.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Well, I smell a column, all right, I smell a column.
That might be me, but I smell a column.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I think that.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
I want to get you to write for the paper,
break it down, detail by detail what those other teams
can do with the extra money that they're getting from
the Big ten that schools like Washington can't do. So
not to tell you how to do your job. Would
I would read that if you want. But he kind
of is, all right, I'd read that, John, all right,
I'd read it.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
John. A great talking point. That's a great talking point.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Here, the man, great stuff and we're talking a week buddy,
Thanks a lot, all right, John Wilner with us. Uh.
Normally we do this at three forty five, but we
moved it back a little bit today. Have a little
fun with audio. Hey did you hear that? Coming up
next on ninety three three kJ R f M
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