August 4, 2026 • 12 mins
Jon Wilner hops on to talk about whether Oregon is going to go on a long win streak against Washington and how long he thinks the Apple Cup will continue.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
All right, joining us right now on the radio show,
courtesy our friends at simply Seattle dot com. Always good
to have him on. Be sure and use code KJR
fifteen for fifteen percent off anything anytime and simply Seattle
dot com. The Pope of the Pack, the big ten
bear in himself and one half of the Wilder and
Gonzano podcast, Johnny Wilder with us, John, your podcast partner,
(00:28):
John Gonzano just spent the last hour with us on
the show. So I'm letting you know you got some
big shoes to fill here, big boy.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yes, yes I do. How'd that go?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I thought it was mediocre, to be honest with you,
It was great, Okay, kiddy, he was great. You know, John,
He's awesome. At some point, I'd like to get you
and John on together, by the way, but I'm afraid
you guys will charge me big bucks for something like that.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
So he was great.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
And we love everything you guys do together, love having
you on with us every week on the show. But hey,
let's just start off. You know, John's making a claim
that he thinks that Oregon is about to run away
from Washington yet again. I think you said on the
air that he thinks the Ducks will win the next
five in a row, that the Ducks are set up
in a lot better place with the nil world. Do
(01:14):
you believe that that Oregon is about to restart another
massive win streak against Washington?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Well, wait, don't they already have a win streak the
Oregon last too.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
At least Oregon has won two in a row.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Correct, But by John's okay reasoning, he thinks they're about
to go back to another eight or nine ten games
in a row type thing.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Well, I certainly the you know, the resource dynamic tilts
to Eugene, there is no doubt about that. But you know, Washington,
I think the coaching is the big thing, right, I mean,
you can offset the resources with quality coaching. That was
a part of Washington's problem during that long run of
(01:58):
Oregon dominance. I don't know, you know, I would say this.
My guess is that the Ducks. I would favor the Ducks,
like out of every five games. I'd give the Ducks
every three three and a half out of every.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Five something like that.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
It's not totally tilted, but it definitely leans Oregon.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, I mean it feels like this would be a
pretty painful year to lose to U Dubb. Oregon's got
national championship aspirations. Everyone's talking about how great Dante More is,
and Oregon supposedly got this kick ass defensive line, best
defense they've had in years, and you know, year three
rebuilding you DUB program. To lose the Jed Fish and
Demon Williams. This feels like this would be a pretty
(02:36):
bad year for Oregon to lose to Washington. And a
win by Washington would be big for you Dub, but
a loss by Oregon would be looked at as even
bigger down there. Do you buy that?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
I certainly buy it, partly because it's in Eugene. I mean,
if you're putting a line on that game right now,
you make Oregon what Oregon's favored by a touchdown at least,
I would think so, I would. I would for sure
say Oregon would have, you know, more to lose there.
There's no doubt about that. Now we'll see what happens,
(03:10):
how things play out. It is very possible that that
game is a playoff elimination for at least one and
maybe both teams, depending on how things go with the schedules.
And you know, the performance I'm of the mindset that
the Huskies need they got to be nine and one
going into the last two to have a shot at
(03:31):
the playoff, Right's that's kind of my feeling, Johnny.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Apple Cup is four weeks from Sunday. If you can
believe that they're playing it on a Sunday this year,
there's no NFL that weekend, and the Huskies and Cougars
will have the entire city's here. I think, although I'm
just hearing from a lot of koog fans that they're
just not really into this anymore.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Man, So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I mean, I don't know how long the contract is
between U dub and Washington State. It wasn't a forever thing,
right when they got together to sign this deal a
couple of years go. You know, Notre Dame in USC
are on hiatus. They're coming back. We can talk about that.
There's some other rivalries Oklahoma Oklahoma State that have gone away, obviously.
(04:11):
Is there any fear of yours concern? I guess that
we could be waking up in the very near future
in the Apple Cup is no longer a thing, you know, I.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Think it's on the that's certainly a possible outcome. You know,
a lot of it just falls on Washington State's administration
to recognize how important that game is. And now that
the PAC twelve has been reconstituted, I think.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
It gives it should give the Cougars.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
A little bit more to feel good about in terms
of where their.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Football program is.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
And you know, I know the fans are bitter and
a lot of fans don't want to play the game,
and I'm here to tell them that Washington State needs
to play that game every year possible because it is
almost a no situation for the Cougars.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Right, Yeah, three years left, twenty six this year and
then two more Pullman and then Husky Stadium in Seattle.
Twenty twenty eight for now is the last one. So
we'll see if they extend that. But John winner with
us again courtesy is simply Seattle dot com. John Notre
Dame USC announced earlier that they're canceling their series. Then
they announced today that they're bringing it back. I think
(05:24):
what's starting in twenty thirty, so they're gonna take a
little bit of a break, but then started up again.
Why are they waiting four years to restart it? And
what happened to get these guys back on the same field.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Well, what happened is that Indiana canceled the series against
Notre Dame in twenty thirty and thirty one, So that
opened up two windows for Notre Dame just for season openers,
and so they slotted USC in as a replacement. I mean,
the whole thing happened because USC decided we're in the
Big Ten, we don't want to go to South Bend
(05:57):
in the middle of October, in the middle of a
conference season, and they USC wanted to play it early
in the season, and Notre Name's like, you know what,
we don't really have.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Any spots to play it early in the season.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
They do starting in twenty thirty because Indiana canceled.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
So that's good. I mean, it's huge for college football, right.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
These are the rivalries that are the lifeblood of college football,
and USC Notre Dame is you know, I'd say it's
a top five rivalry.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
So it's good for the sport that they're playing.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
And yeah, I think it's fun that they're playing for
season openers, right, I mean it's kind of an unofficial
kickoff to the season.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yeah. Well, I think it's great but I also believe
that Notre Dame in Indiana and Purdue should also play
each other every year in the state of Indiana. And then,
you know, speaking.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Of the package.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Well, by the way, there was some announcement today. I
don't know I saw it. I thought I could maybe
check it out, but I said, hey, why not, I'll
just ask you and you can explain to us what
the hell happens. So some kind of a joint agreement
PAC twelve Mountain West. I don't know what's going on here.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
It is just that they have four normalized the settlement
from the lawsuits, right, I don't remember when that was.
Sometime in May they announced that they you know, they
had reached a a mediated settlement. And this is just
the formal, long form version of it. It's not really
(07:18):
anything new. It's just like saying, okay, we've gotted the
eyes and cross the t's.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah. John Wilner is with us on the show, and
John the coach's poll came out, you know, Jedfish. We're
gonna hear from him coming up next segment. You know
last year he would run around practice with a shirt on,
you know, talking about all the disrespect that you Dub
was getting without you know, any ranking on their side.
I mean, they were a six and seventeen the year before,
(07:44):
so I was kind of okay with it. I understood
why U Dub wasn't ranked, and I get why they're
ranked now at nineteenth. But I saw you tweet about
your AP ballad. Do you have the Huskies ranked in
your initial poll for twenty twenty six?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Oh? I do, indeed, and I'm glad that you asked
me about that.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
As much heat as I take from Husky fans about
the why do you hate Washington, I do have my
I've submitted my AP bet preseason mallet, and I actually
have Washington several spots higher than the.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Huskies are placed in the coach's poll.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
And my guess is that the AP preseason poll will
have Washington somewhere in that eighteen to twenty range, and
I've got the Huskies either like twelfth, thirteenth or fourteenth.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I think they yeah, oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I am a Husky hank now, so I think yeah,
they should be They should be good. The schedule, the
offensive line, the veteran quarterback, very good defensive coordinator.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
You know, they should rack up the wins.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
And I think it's perfectly justified to have Washington in
that twelve to fifteen sixteen range.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yes, you're saying, for all the people out there that
say that you hate on Water Washington, that you're a
Husky hater, they are incorrect. They're wrong. It's actually the
exact opposite. For a guy that's supposed to be impartial.
You were secretly behind the scenes rooting for the Huskies
to have massive success in Seattle.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
And one of those one of those people is your
co host who's not currently on this in that conversation,
that's right, who has accused me of being a Husky hater.
But but no, you'll you know, I looked at the
schedules and returning players for all the teams, and you know,
is there any reason Washington should not be at least
nine to three?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I don't see it.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, No, I don't know what Dick's problem is, man,
I don't know. He's just he doesn't like when people
criticize Washington, and he he just can't he can't understand
why you would not be on the Husky wagon every
day every time you come on this radio game. There
he's also not here to defend himself, so it's actually
kind of fun. Hey, John, before you go, Before you go,
I want to find out. Can you explain to me
(09:55):
this ruling that came down from a judge I believe
in Colorado that's that anybody who was a part of
the twenty twenty two class that exhausted four years of
eligibility last spring or this spring can come back and
play for one more year. Indiana has already got a guy,
a defensive lineman, Stephen Daily, who's gonna come back to
(10:17):
Indiana for his fifth year. I guess he got hurt.
He was nineteen TFLs five and a half sacks, third
nationally in that regard. So I mean, I'm surprised.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Was this guy not drafted? Was he banged up? What
happened to the Steven Daily guy? And this is unbelievable
that Indiana, a month before the season starts is getting
like a big time free agent to join their team.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
I know, the ruling was very complicated and the judge
had to actually clarify a couple of days later what
she meant. So Daily is really good and he's gonna
give Indiana make a defensive line that was gonna be
good even better. The key is that he Indian had
a roster spot available for him. Right. A lot of
(11:06):
teams are not gonna have spots available. You either have
to come back. So the transfer portal still that rule
still exists for these for these players.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
So he came back to his school.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Right. Uh, if you enter the transfer portal last winner
and then tried to turn pro, you you can go somewhere.
If you didn't answer enter the transfer portal, you can't
just transfer to another school. It's really complicated. The bigger
impact will be in basketball. There's gonna be a bunch
of guys who exhausted eligibility.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
They played four years in four years, and.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
They will be able to go back to their teams
or if they enter the portal, they'll be able to transfer.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Football.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
The problem with football is it's so late training camps started,
roster spots aren't available. There's gonna be very few guys
like what Indiana.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
John Wilner, great stuff, love it and uh, we'll be
sure and remind Dick Fame when you're on next week
where you have you dub and the apro.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
One of the Erican Gonzaga fants.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I'm not sure if he'll even buy it. By the way,
he may have to hear it from you himself. So
good stuff and we'll talk a week dude. Thank you man,
Thanks a lot of softy, all right, John Wilner with
us on the show We've Gotta Break. We're gonna hear
a little bit from Taylor Ward, the newest Mariner, and
then Jetfish from you Media Day Today. That's all coming
next on ninety three three KJRFM.
All right, joining us right now on the radio show,
courtesy our friends at simply Seattle dot com. Always good
to have him on. Be sure and use code KJR
fifteen for fifteen percent off anything anytime and simply Seattle
dot com. The Pope of the Pack, the big ten
bear in himself and one half of the Wilder and
Gonzano podcast, Johnny Wilder with us, John, your podcast partner,
(00:28):
John Gonzano just spent the last hour with us on
the show. So I'm letting you know you got some
big shoes to fill here, big boy.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yes, yes I do. How'd that go?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I thought it was mediocre, to be honest with you,
It was great, Okay, kiddy, he was great. You know, John,
He's awesome. At some point, I'd like to get you
and John on together, by the way, but I'm afraid
you guys will charge me big bucks for something like that.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
So he was great.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
And we love everything you guys do together, love having
you on with us every week on the show. But hey,
let's just start off. You know, John's making a claim
that he thinks that Oregon is about to run away
from Washington yet again. I think you said on the
air that he thinks the Ducks will win the next
five in a row, that the Ducks are set up
in a lot better place with the nil world. Do
(01:14):
you believe that that Oregon is about to restart another
massive win streak against Washington?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Well, wait, don't they already have a win streak the
Oregon last too.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
At least Oregon has won two in a row.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Correct, But by John's okay reasoning, he thinks they're about
to go back to another eight or nine ten games
in a row type thing.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Well, I certainly the you know, the resource dynamic tilts
to Eugene, there is no doubt about that. But you know, Washington,
I think the coaching is the big thing, right, I mean,
you can offset the resources with quality coaching. That was
a part of Washington's problem during that long run of
(01:58):
Oregon dominance. I don't know, you know, I would say this.
My guess is that the Ducks. I would favor the Ducks,
like out of every five games. I'd give the Ducks
every three three and a half out of every.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Five something like that.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
It's not totally tilted, but it definitely leans Oregon.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, I mean it feels like this would be a
pretty painful year to lose to U Dubb. Oregon's got
national championship aspirations. Everyone's talking about how great Dante More is,
and Oregon supposedly got this kick ass defensive line, best
defense they've had in years, and you know, year three
rebuilding you DUB program. To lose the Jed Fish and
Demon Williams. This feels like this would be a pretty
(02:36):
bad year for Oregon to lose to Washington. And a
win by Washington would be big for you Dub, but
a loss by Oregon would be looked at as even
bigger down there. Do you buy that?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
I certainly buy it, partly because it's in Eugene. I mean,
if you're putting a line on that game right now,
you make Oregon what Oregon's favored by a touchdown at least,
I would think so, I would. I would for sure
say Oregon would have, you know, more to lose there.
There's no doubt about that. Now we'll see what happens,
(03:10):
how things play out. It is very possible that that
game is a playoff elimination for at least one and
maybe both teams, depending on how things go with the schedules.
And you know, the performance I'm of the mindset that
the Huskies need they got to be nine and one
going into the last two to have a shot at
(03:31):
the playoff, Right's that's kind of my feeling, Johnny.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Apple Cup is four weeks from Sunday. If you can
believe that they're playing it on a Sunday this year,
there's no NFL that weekend, and the Huskies and Cougars
will have the entire city's here. I think, although I'm
just hearing from a lot of koog fans that they're
just not really into this anymore.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Man, So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I mean, I don't know how long the contract is
between U dub and Washington State. It wasn't a forever thing,
right when they got together to sign this deal a
couple of years go. You know, Notre Dame in USC
are on hiatus. They're coming back. We can talk about that.
There's some other rivalries Oklahoma Oklahoma State that have gone away, obviously.
(04:11):
Is there any fear of yours concern? I guess that
we could be waking up in the very near future
in the Apple Cup is no longer a thing, you know, I.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Think it's on the that's certainly a possible outcome. You know,
a lot of it just falls on Washington State's administration
to recognize how important that game is. And now that
the PAC twelve has been reconstituted, I think.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
It gives it should give the Cougars.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
A little bit more to feel good about in terms
of where their.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Football program is.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
And you know, I know the fans are bitter and
a lot of fans don't want to play the game,
and I'm here to tell them that Washington State needs
to play that game every year possible because it is
almost a no situation for the Cougars.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Right, Yeah, three years left, twenty six this year and
then two more Pullman and then Husky Stadium in Seattle.
Twenty twenty eight for now is the last one. So
we'll see if they extend that. But John winner with
us again courtesy is simply Seattle dot com. John Notre
Dame USC announced earlier that they're canceling their series. Then
they announced today that they're bringing it back. I think
(05:24):
what's starting in twenty thirty, so they're gonna take a
little bit of a break, but then started up again.
Why are they waiting four years to restart it? And
what happened to get these guys back on the same field.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Well, what happened is that Indiana canceled the series against
Notre Dame in twenty thirty and thirty one, So that
opened up two windows for Notre Dame just for season openers,
and so they slotted USC in as a replacement. I mean,
the whole thing happened because USC decided we're in the
Big Ten, we don't want to go to South Bend
(05:57):
in the middle of October, in the middle of a
conference season, and they USC wanted to play it early
in the season, and Notre Name's like, you know what,
we don't really have.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Any spots to play it early in the season.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
They do starting in twenty thirty because Indiana canceled.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
So that's good. I mean, it's huge for college football, right.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
These are the rivalries that are the lifeblood of college football,
and USC Notre Dame is you know, I'd say it's
a top five rivalry.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
So it's good for the sport that they're playing.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
And yeah, I think it's fun that they're playing for
season openers, right, I mean it's kind of an unofficial
kickoff to the season.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yeah. Well, I think it's great but I also believe
that Notre Dame in Indiana and Purdue should also play
each other every year in the state of Indiana. And then,
you know, speaking.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Of the package.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Well, by the way, there was some announcement today. I
don't know I saw it. I thought I could maybe
check it out, but I said, hey, why not, I'll
just ask you and you can explain to us what
the hell happens. So some kind of a joint agreement
PAC twelve Mountain West. I don't know what's going on here.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
It is just that they have four normalized the settlement
from the lawsuits, right, I don't remember when that was.
Sometime in May they announced that they you know, they
had reached a a mediated settlement. And this is just
the formal, long form version of it. It's not really
(07:18):
anything new. It's just like saying, okay, we've gotted the
eyes and cross the t's.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah. John Wilner is with us on the show, and
John the coach's poll came out, you know, Jedfish. We're
gonna hear from him coming up next segment. You know
last year he would run around practice with a shirt on,
you know, talking about all the disrespect that you Dub
was getting without you know, any ranking on their side.
I mean, they were a six and seventeen the year before,
(07:44):
so I was kind of okay with it. I understood
why U Dub wasn't ranked, and I get why they're
ranked now at nineteenth. But I saw you tweet about
your AP ballad. Do you have the Huskies ranked in
your initial poll for twenty twenty six?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Oh? I do, indeed, and I'm glad that you asked
me about that.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
As much heat as I take from Husky fans about
the why do you hate Washington, I do have my
I've submitted my AP bet preseason mallet, and I actually
have Washington several spots higher than the.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Huskies are placed in the coach's poll.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
And my guess is that the AP preseason poll will
have Washington somewhere in that eighteen to twenty range, and
I've got the Huskies either like twelfth, thirteenth or fourteenth.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I think they yeah, oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I am a Husky hank now, so I think yeah,
they should be They should be good. The schedule, the
offensive line, the veteran quarterback, very good defensive coordinator.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
You know, they should rack up the wins.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
And I think it's perfectly justified to have Washington in
that twelve to fifteen sixteen range.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yes, you're saying, for all the people out there that
say that you hate on Water Washington, that you're a
Husky hater, they are incorrect. They're wrong. It's actually the
exact opposite. For a guy that's supposed to be impartial.
You were secretly behind the scenes rooting for the Huskies
to have massive success in Seattle.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
And one of those one of those people is your
co host who's not currently on this in that conversation,
that's right, who has accused me of being a Husky hater.
But but no, you'll you know, I looked at the
schedules and returning players for all the teams, and you know,
is there any reason Washington should not be at least
nine to three?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I don't see it.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, No, I don't know what Dick's problem is, man,
I don't know. He's just he doesn't like when people
criticize Washington, and he he just can't he can't understand
why you would not be on the Husky wagon every
day every time you come on this radio game. There
he's also not here to defend himself, so it's actually
kind of fun. Hey, John, before you go, Before you go,
I want to find out. Can you explain to me
(09:55):
this ruling that came down from a judge I believe
in Colorado that's that anybody who was a part of
the twenty twenty two class that exhausted four years of
eligibility last spring or this spring can come back and
play for one more year. Indiana has already got a guy,
a defensive lineman, Stephen Daily, who's gonna come back to
(10:17):
Indiana for his fifth year. I guess he got hurt.
He was nineteen TFLs five and a half sacks, third
nationally in that regard. So I mean, I'm surprised.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Was this guy not drafted? Was he banged up? What
happened to the Steven Daily guy? And this is unbelievable
that Indiana, a month before the season starts is getting
like a big time free agent to join their team.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
I know, the ruling was very complicated and the judge
had to actually clarify a couple of days later what
she meant. So Daily is really good and he's gonna
give Indiana make a defensive line that was gonna be
good even better. The key is that he Indian had
a roster spot available for him. Right. A lot of
(11:06):
teams are not gonna have spots available. You either have
to come back. So the transfer portal still that rule
still exists for these for these players.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
So he came back to his school.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Right. Uh, if you enter the transfer portal last winner
and then tried to turn pro, you you can go somewhere.
If you didn't answer enter the transfer portal, you can't
just transfer to another school. It's really complicated. The bigger
impact will be in basketball. There's gonna be a bunch
of guys who exhausted eligibility.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
They played four years in four years, and.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
They will be able to go back to their teams
or if they enter the portal, they'll be able to transfer.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Football.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
The problem with football is it's so late training camps started,
roster spots aren't available. There's gonna be very few guys
like what Indiana.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
John Wilner, great stuff, love it and uh, we'll be
sure and remind Dick Fame when you're on next week
where you have you dub and the apro.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
One of the Erican Gonzaga fants.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I'm not sure if he'll even buy it. By the way,
he may have to hear it from you himself. So
good stuff and we'll talk a week dude. Thank you man,
Thanks a lot of softy, all right, John Wilner with
us on the show We've Gotta Break. We're gonna hear
a little bit from Taylor Ward, the newest Mariner, and
then Jetfish from you Media Day Today. That's all coming
next on ninety three three KJRFM.
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