May 27, 2026 • 20 mins
Dick Fain and Hugh Millen talk to Larry Stone about the Mariners being on the upswing after sweeping the A's, his thoughts on the Piggyback scenario as well as Colt Emerson's emergence.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time for our weekly conversation with legendary sports writer
Larry Stone, brought to you by the Ram Restaurant and Brewery, Bigger, better,
and fresher since nineteen seventy one, with eight Fugit Sound
locations from Marysville to Lacy and everywhere in between. There's
a Ram near you now with Softy and Dick, here's
Larry Stone.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Yes, Wednesday at the Ram means Burger Day.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
That's right, any of their burgers along with a side
and a beer for sixteen ninety nine.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Not bad, not bad at all. Larry Stone, How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I'm doing good. How are you guys doing well?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
We're doing well.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
It's good that you know the sweep of the Sacramento,
Las Vegas, Oakland A's it just sures everything right in baseball.
We can just forget about anything bad that's happened prior
and we can just focus on No, we can't do that,
but we'll start with the last three games, which was
certainly a lot better than what we saw this weekend,
that's for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (00:58):
I mean that's the Mariners that we thought we were
going to see all year if it took two months.
But I mean they played good, clean baseball, clutch hitting,
great defense, really good starting pitching, and how many times, Dick,
week after week we've talked about even while they're struggling
the fact that they were hanging close to the division
(01:21):
was actually a good sign because when they started to play.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well, they were going to take off. And you know,
now they're probably going to come home and go to
and four and the.
Speaker 5 (01:29):
Homestand because that's the heat of syson, that's the Mariner way.
But right now, I mean, you got to think that
they're poised to finally, you know, maybe distance themselves from
the from the division.
Speaker 6 (01:41):
Well, they's looked at all the numbers and they they
presumably had optimism about their left handed arms going against
the Mariners lineup and the struggles the Mariners have had.
What's your what's your take on that? Do you feel
like this is the first real sign of of curing
those ills or do you need to more?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (02:02):
It's it's certainly the first signs uh, and I and
I need to see more.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
You know, both of both are right, I agree with.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
But when I saw yesterday Hugh that this they were
bringing up a rookie, their top pitching prospect, Gage jump
who through ninety seven.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
And a lefty.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
I figured out they're they're sunk. You know, a guy
they've never seen before, hard throwing lefty. That's the kind
of guy that's been killing them all year. Uh and
they've never seen him to boot. But but they handled
him really really well. After the first inning, I was
sure I was right because he made him look kind
of helpless.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
But you know, then they then they unloaded on him. Uh.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
You know, I think having roblists back, uh is a
huge thing. He had a great game offensively yesterday, a
great game defensively today, a more legitimate bat.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Than than uh.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
You know, Connor Joe, great guy, but uh, probably past
his prime in and they need ref Schneider, and he's
been the butt of everybody's wrath and jokes and everything.
But uh, you know, I think yesterday he got on
base three times, today hit that huge home run.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
If he could finally take.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Off, I think that would go a long way towards
solving their problems against left handed pitching.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
I can't not hear the major league line. This guy
here never had a prime. When you Connor Joe fast.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Prime, Larry Stone, he had about a five minute prime.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
Hey, what are you two laughing about? I don't think
that's very fun.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
You had you had a prime had hell a lot
more than Connor Joe, that's for sure, Larry Stone joining us.
So did the Age just overthink this thing? Did they
just play analytics too far and it blew up in
their face? And do you think that it will maybe
preclude other teams from copying what the A's did?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Because I was I mentioned it last week.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
I was like, got, are we going to start seeing
two lefties every single time in these series because they'll
mix their rotation around.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
I don't think they over thought that, Dick, I thought.
I mean, I think it was a logical game plan.
The way they've struggled against lefties. I think it, you know,
is what they should have done. Yeah, and maybe it
will preclude teams from doing it. Uh, you know, they
they are now, I think they. I think I read
that they're now nine and nine against left handed starters,
(04:20):
which is actually a better record than against right handed
starters since they're.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
The team is under five hundred.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
But uh, yeah, I think teams will still attack them
with lefties until they prove that it's a sustainable thing.
But uh, you know, it's a good step in that direction,
and it bodes well, I think for the future. You know,
there's not not every team has that many lefty starters,
(04:46):
you know, maybe one one one of staff.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So it's uh, it's uh that mayors don't have any.
So it's uh, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
Sometimes you there's no option to do that. But I
think if teams that teams that can do it are
going to continue to do it for a while.
Speaker 6 (05:05):
Larry Stone with this and Larry in recent months or
even last year. You know when I have a particularly
keen eye on the development of Emerson Hancock and for
obvious reasons, right like it's like, wait a minute, you
got this young potential star. Well, there's another Emerson on
this team. He played his tenth game today and he
(05:29):
is his ops is eight seventy eight and a twenty
year old who's played ten games. In his seventh game,
he had three doubles. I'd like to look up how
common that is. But I was a little nervous, like, hey,
you can bring this guy up. You don't want him
to fail. There's a lot of there's a whole list
(05:50):
of players where teams have really learned to regret, lived
to regret bringing up a young guy because he struggled.
But we're ten games into this thing. He had a
triple today, beautiful triple down the line. It seems like,
you know, if you're looking for stories and you say, okay,
raise the helicopter up a few thousand feet, what's important.
(06:12):
This ninety five million dollar twenty year old off to
a pretty darn good start. Mary.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, No, he's been super impressive.
Speaker 5 (06:21):
And you know, going back to our last topic, they're
facing all these lefties all of a sudden. I bet
he's faced more lefties than he faced rightys since he
came up. And for a left handed, young left handed back,
that's a that's a tough act. So so I think,
you know, when that's kind of when they when it
(06:41):
gets into more normalcy and they're facing righty's, I think
that'll be even more beneficial to him. But he did
you know, he had the home run in the big
home run in his second start, with his parents there
and everything, and then he struggled for for the next week.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Really he was in the low hundreds.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
And then you know, I was starting to see on
social media that they brought him up too soon, and
then he had that huge game with the four hits,
and he's kind of taken absence and he just looks comfortable.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
To me.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
He plays a really good third base. I think very
soon he's going to play a really good shortstop. He
sprays the ball to all fields.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
He just looks in control.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
I don't think you could be any more impressed with
the start that he's had, just still settling in, but
looking like a guy who belongs here and is going
to be a huge help to this team, and not
in the future, but right now.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Larry, the pitching side of things, we haven't talked to
you since the latest version of Piggyback Piggyback two point zero,
and it went pretty well other than the fact that
you ticked off both of your pitchers in the process
of winning the game. Talk to me about what you
think happened. Because remember when Bryce Miller was the starter
(07:57):
of the Piggyback, he was allowed to go far five
plus and be able to be eligible to pick up
the win. I would assume that Luis Castillo thought that, Hey,
if I'm in position to pick up the win, you're
gonna let me go five and then give Bryce Miller
the rest of the game.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
And that's not how that's not what happened.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
So what do you think Luise knew and how how
much do you blame him for how he reacted?
Speaker 5 (08:24):
Well, I think the lack of communication has been one
of the biggest problems of this of this whole thing.
And when you have a nine to two win over
your biggest rival and the immediate aftermath is that both
pitchers are pissed off.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
You know something has gone wrong.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
You know it's a bad it's a bad It's either
a bad plan or a bad operation. And I think
at this case, it was a bad operation. I think
you can also you know, I would still argue it's
a bad, bad plan.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
But I don't know if I don't know if Bryce
would have been allowed to go those five ginnings he
didn't have a no hitter going.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
I think Dan realized he couldn't take a guy out
with a no hitter going.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I think the original plan was for him to go
four or five innings.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
But yeah, I wonder how much of Castillo's wrath had
to do with the fact that he could not get
the win.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
You know, analysts and people in baseball have devalued pitchers wins.
But the one person group that it means a lot
too still is pitchers themselves. They want that w and
when he couldn't get it, I think that that irritated.
And plus the fact that you know, he struggled all
year and he finally was in a groove, he was
(09:39):
pitching like the Castillo of old and suddenly they yank
him out.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Of the game.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
I mean, that's the That's the problem I have with
this plan is that it's when you is that success
is not rewarded.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
You're gonna get pulled no matter how well you pitched.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
Just to keep the the other guy getting his innings.
But I was very encourag that by the fact that
they had that Wilson and Woodworth met with them, and
the POTO met with them. I think this plan could
work if and this is a huge if, if there's
buy in from the pitchers, and there was not buy
in from them, but maybe now with the explanation of
(10:17):
how they planned to do it, maybe there will be
buy in. And you know, you were right, Dick, looking
purely at the numbers, it worked spectacularly. I mean two
point one two era in two games. You know, they
were in position to win both those games that both
those guys pitched well. So if I could somehow figure
(10:37):
out a way to make them happy with their usage,
I think it has a chance to work.
Speaker 6 (10:43):
Larry Stone with us, Larry, let's stay there, and I
want you to imagine I'm seeing a scale, a kind
of just a linear scale where on one end of
it we have the you could say, just cut up,
do what you're told, think only about the team, nothing
(11:04):
about yourself, right, Like, I don't know if you could
describe that as old school, what have you at the
under the end of the spectrum, you would have that
I think that you the term was used equitable. You
know what do what's equitable?
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Uh?
Speaker 6 (11:17):
You know, be hyper aware of of of players sensitivities
and what have you, and and the idea that they
that they're you know, finally tuned competitors that you know,
perhaps in Castillo's case, even from a cultural standpoint, has
this idea about about hey, this is what this is
the profile of a starting pitcher, and this is who
I am.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
That type of thing.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
So so if if those are two opposite ends of
the spectrum, you've been around ball a long time, where
do you think the best place to be is?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (11:46):
Are are you more sympathetic to the side that, hey,
shut up and do what the what you're told, or
are you more sympathetic to Hey, these guys are human beings,
and there's certain things that are embedded into the culture
of baseball that you have to be aware of how
these guys are going to be in pacted uh from
as a competitor and emotional scale. Where are you Where
are you on that that spectrum?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I'm more I'm more towards their human beings. I think
it's it's nice.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
To say, you know, do your job, you're getting paid
for it, But they're human beings and there's a motion
involved and uh, this is a very unorthodox uh system
here that really doesn't have a much of a track
record anywhere in baseball. So it's a it's a new
thing that they're being asked to do. And I just
I think it's it's a tough ask, uh for guys
(12:35):
that you know they're Bryce Miller is pitching for for
you know, arbitration, and you know he hasn't hit the
big money yet and stats are.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Important for that, you know. Uh.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
So I'm sure that's in the back of his mind
Castillo wants a new contract when this one's expires. So
those those are factors as well. But you know, I
think they are you know, they're doing it.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
They're they're there.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
May be reluctantly and with with you know, some some resentment,
but they are going out there and doing it.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
So that just shut up and do your job people.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
You know, the answer is in in in their actions
and so so they are. They are performing. They're not
pouting or pro protesting.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
You know, visit a little bit, right, I mean we're throwing.
Speaker 6 (13:22):
We're throwing, and we're telling the press that we're not.
And I don't mean to be contrarian. I mean, I
mean just to we don't want to knock down a
straw man, let's steal man this thing that they are
on some level outwardly protesting and appearing, at least in
the eyes of something to be selfish.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
Right, So yeah, yeah, true, But but bottom line is,
you know they're they're out there, They're still out there
pitching their their their butt.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
So so.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
And I you know, I I I think heat of
the moment anger like that from from Castillo, I I
I understand it, and I don't holde that against him
and think it's selfishness or anything like that. You know,
you know, part of athletics is selfishness, because the better
you are as.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
An individual, the better for the team in a lot
of cases.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Larry, there's another quote from Bryce Miller after his prior
start that really resonated with me, and it was this
he said, this year, it's different. We know we're the
best team in the West, we know that we should
be the best team in the American League, and it's like,
at times we just haven't proven it. Sometimes we just
don't have that attitude of everybody's coming to beat us,
(14:35):
and we're just flat sometimes. And man, has that manifested
itself so many times this year, most recently Saturday and Sunday,
where there's drop transfers and throws that are fifteen feet
wide and Randy boot in to play for three runs
and it's just like an absolute mess. And I'm wondering,
(14:57):
and this might not be the best time to bring
it up, because they just sweat o Gland. I understand that,
but still, why do they slip into this malaise where
like two of their three or four losses every week
they just look dead on arrival and who do you
put that on?
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, I mean that game. I guess it was Sunday
where they made all those mistakes.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
Yeah, that was as bad as that was as bad
a game as as I've seen in a long time.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
And Saturday were lifeless too, totally lifeless Saturday.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
Yeah, you know, I kind of wonder, you know, when
when Randy made that uh that bad read on that
ball and kind of back pedaled back and then went
off the wall and then uh, you know, Julio was
due up first next inning and he didn't come out,
and they you know, it's late for.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
Yeah, but I think I think, you know, Dan alluded
to the fact that he was having a defensive discussion.
I wonder if he like laid down the lot of
Randy at that point in the dugout and that's why
he was late to his uh to his appearance, and
whether you know, maybe that was a sort of a
wake up moment for them, like we you know, pull
(16:05):
your head out and we got a game to win.
But yeah, it falls on them. It does fall on
the manager ultimately. And if they had gone to Oakland
and gotten swept instead of sweeping, can you imagine strive
for his for I mean that's three just three games,
but there would have been a huge cry for him
(16:25):
to be fired.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I never you know, I don't don't.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
I never thought he was going to get fired in May,
coming off the year that he had.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
But uh, you know, if.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
They're still playing that sort of way you described in July,
I think you know that conversation will have would be renewed.
But uh, you know, it's it's also going to be
hard to fire a Dan Wilson, a franchise legend that
I felt that from the day they hired him. You know,
(16:55):
how how do you fire a Dan Wilson? And yeah,
you know, I don't think it's I don't think it's
come to that, right. Yeah, And maybe they'll just we'll
look back at that discussion and laugh in a month
when they're for the six games in the league.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
But right now it's relevant.
Speaker 6 (17:08):
You know, I'm going to push back a little bit
against both of you, Larry and Dick in this regard,
and I'm totally prepared to accept your version and we'll
come to an agreement on this. But it you know,
from coach I coached twenty four seasons of football with
kids and you know, been around it a bit. And
(17:29):
and I look and I say, when when things don't
go right, is that it was that an execution breakdown?
Or was it an effort breakdown? I put the effort
breakdown in terms of focus or hustle. Right, And so
when we when we talk, when we say that we
booted a ball or that we turned and I saw
(17:50):
like that a rose Arena play was awful. That was
something out of bad news Bearers, right, it was a
terrible play. But how can we gleanly just say where
we just say, hey, these guys aren't into it today.
They're they're flat, they're mostly not there. Uh, certainly you
you cite you know, if Julio doesn't know when his
(18:10):
next damn ab is, that would absolutely be not focused.
But but sometimes you have these type of errors or
what have you, or you look flat or what have
you because you might be trying too hard. We're sitting there,
we're gonna we're gonna say, well, they're not trying hard enough,
they're not focused enough. It could be the opposite. And
(18:33):
so how do we how do we say these are
signs that are reliable indicators that they are truly not
focused versus maybe they're just pressing. Maybe they're like, oh
my god, we're we're we're we're not leading up to
living up to our potential. Uh, And now all of
a sudden they're tight and then we see ears because
(18:54):
of that. So I'm just fine. It could be you
get the same result, but they come from totally one
hundred and eighty degrees apart mindsets.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
Larry, Yeah, well it's hard to just I agree with you,
you know, And I never liked to call out athletes
for for for lack of effort because that's impossible for anyone.
In most cases, it's impossible to know what their level
(19:23):
of effort was, So I try not to do that.
But it's just looked like a team. You know, what
you said was true. How about the game? And you know,
I was at this game sitting in the stands. Everyone
in the stands was stunned when Randy Rose Arena ran
off the field because he thought there.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Were two outs. Yeah, that would be ye. You know,
at a key moment in that game.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
It was the I believe it was the Emerson Hancock
fourteen strikeout game when they retired Randy Johnson's uniform number
and they end up losing in in extra innings and
that could have been that could have been the difference
in the game, you know. H But yeah, there's just
been a lot of things this year where they've just
(20:04):
seemed unfocused and maybe it was maybe it is pressing
because of too much effort, I'll give you that. But
you know, teams have to good teams figure that out
and get past that. And they weren't doing that for
two months. But now maybe they're at a point where
you know, they're going to take off.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Like I said, Yeah, let's hope this series is a
precursor of things to come.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Always a pleasure. Larry, thank you.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
All right, Thanks guys, Thanks Larry.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
You bet Larry Stone, we'll get back to the Seahawks
conversation with you. He was just kind of getting into
a little comparison between the Seahawks and his Cowboys team,
who were trying to defend a Super Bowl championship.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
We'll do that next on ninety three point three KJFM.
It's time for our weekly conversation with legendary sports writer
Larry Stone, brought to you by the Ram Restaurant and Brewery, Bigger, better,
and fresher since nineteen seventy one, with eight Fugit Sound
locations from Marysville to Lacy and everywhere in between. There's
a Ram near you now with Softy and Dick, here's
Larry Stone.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Yes, Wednesday at the Ram means Burger Day.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
That's right, any of their burgers along with a side
and a beer for sixteen ninety nine.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Not bad, not bad at all. Larry Stone, How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I'm doing good. How are you guys doing well?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
We're doing well.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
It's good that you know the sweep of the Sacramento,
Las Vegas, Oakland A's it just sures everything right in baseball.
We can just forget about anything bad that's happened prior
and we can just focus on No, we can't do that,
but we'll start with the last three games, which was
certainly a lot better than what we saw this weekend,
that's for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (00:58):
I mean that's the Mariners that we thought we were
going to see all year if it took two months.
But I mean they played good, clean baseball, clutch hitting,
great defense, really good starting pitching, and how many times, Dick,
week after week we've talked about even while they're struggling
the fact that they were hanging close to the division
(01:21):
was actually a good sign because when they started to play.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well, they were going to take off. And you know,
now they're probably going to come home and go to
and four and the.
Speaker 5 (01:29):
Homestand because that's the heat of syson, that's the Mariner way.
But right now, I mean, you got to think that
they're poised to finally, you know, maybe distance themselves from
the from the division.
Speaker 6 (01:41):
Well, they's looked at all the numbers and they they
presumably had optimism about their left handed arms going against
the Mariners lineup and the struggles the Mariners have had.
What's your what's your take on that? Do you feel
like this is the first real sign of of curing
those ills or do you need to more?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (02:02):
It's it's certainly the first signs uh, and I and
I need to see more.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
You know, both of both are right, I agree with.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
But when I saw yesterday Hugh that this they were
bringing up a rookie, their top pitching prospect, Gage jump
who through ninety seven.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
And a lefty.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
I figured out they're they're sunk. You know, a guy
they've never seen before, hard throwing lefty. That's the kind
of guy that's been killing them all year. Uh and
they've never seen him to boot. But but they handled
him really really well. After the first inning, I was
sure I was right because he made him look kind
of helpless.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
But you know, then they then they unloaded on him. Uh.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
You know, I think having roblists back, uh is a
huge thing. He had a great game offensively yesterday, a
great game defensively today, a more legitimate bat.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Than than uh.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
You know, Connor Joe, great guy, but uh, probably past
his prime in and they need ref Schneider, and he's
been the butt of everybody's wrath and jokes and everything.
But uh, you know, I think yesterday he got on
base three times, today hit that huge home run.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
If he could finally take.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Off, I think that would go a long way towards
solving their problems against left handed pitching.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
I can't not hear the major league line. This guy
here never had a prime. When you Connor Joe fast.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Prime, Larry Stone, he had about a five minute prime.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
Hey, what are you two laughing about? I don't think
that's very fun.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
You had you had a prime had hell a lot
more than Connor Joe, that's for sure, Larry Stone joining us.
So did the Age just overthink this thing? Did they
just play analytics too far and it blew up in
their face? And do you think that it will maybe
preclude other teams from copying what the A's did?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Because I was I mentioned it last week.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
I was like, got, are we going to start seeing
two lefties every single time in these series because they'll
mix their rotation around.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
I don't think they over thought that, Dick, I thought.
I mean, I think it was a logical game plan.
The way they've struggled against lefties. I think it, you know,
is what they should have done. Yeah, and maybe it
will preclude teams from doing it. Uh, you know, they
they are now, I think they. I think I read
that they're now nine and nine against left handed starters,
(04:20):
which is actually a better record than against right handed
starters since they're.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
The team is under five hundred.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
But uh, yeah, I think teams will still attack them
with lefties until they prove that it's a sustainable thing.
But uh, you know, it's a good step in that direction,
and it bodes well, I think for the future. You know,
there's not not every team has that many lefty starters,
(04:46):
you know, maybe one one one of staff.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So it's uh, it's uh that mayors don't have any.
So it's uh, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
Sometimes you there's no option to do that. But I
think if teams that teams that can do it are
going to continue to do it for a while.
Speaker 6 (05:05):
Larry Stone with this and Larry in recent months or
even last year. You know when I have a particularly
keen eye on the development of Emerson Hancock and for
obvious reasons, right like it's like, wait a minute, you
got this young potential star. Well, there's another Emerson on
this team. He played his tenth game today and he
(05:29):
is his ops is eight seventy eight and a twenty
year old who's played ten games. In his seventh game,
he had three doubles. I'd like to look up how
common that is. But I was a little nervous, like, hey,
you can bring this guy up. You don't want him
to fail. There's a lot of there's a whole list
(05:50):
of players where teams have really learned to regret, lived
to regret bringing up a young guy because he struggled.
But we're ten games into this thing. He had a
triple today, beautiful triple down the line. It seems like,
you know, if you're looking for stories and you say, okay,
raise the helicopter up a few thousand feet, what's important.
(06:12):
This ninety five million dollar twenty year old off to
a pretty darn good start. Mary.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, No, he's been super impressive.
Speaker 5 (06:21):
And you know, going back to our last topic, they're
facing all these lefties all of a sudden. I bet
he's faced more lefties than he faced rightys since he
came up. And for a left handed, young left handed back,
that's a that's a tough act. So so I think,
you know, when that's kind of when they when it
(06:41):
gets into more normalcy and they're facing righty's, I think
that'll be even more beneficial to him. But he did
you know, he had the home run in the big
home run in his second start, with his parents there
and everything, and then he struggled for for the next week.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Really he was in the low hundreds.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
And then you know, I was starting to see on
social media that they brought him up too soon, and
then he had that huge game with the four hits,
and he's kind of taken absence and he just looks comfortable.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
To me.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
He plays a really good third base. I think very
soon he's going to play a really good shortstop. He
sprays the ball to all fields.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
He just looks in control.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
I don't think you could be any more impressed with
the start that he's had, just still settling in, but
looking like a guy who belongs here and is going
to be a huge help to this team, and not
in the future, but right now.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Larry, the pitching side of things, we haven't talked to
you since the latest version of Piggyback Piggyback two point zero,
and it went pretty well other than the fact that
you ticked off both of your pitchers in the process
of winning the game. Talk to me about what you
think happened. Because remember when Bryce Miller was the starter
(07:57):
of the Piggyback, he was allowed to go far five
plus and be able to be eligible to pick up
the win. I would assume that Luis Castillo thought that, Hey,
if I'm in position to pick up the win, you're
gonna let me go five and then give Bryce Miller
the rest of the game.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
And that's not how that's not what happened.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
So what do you think Luise knew and how how
much do you blame him for how he reacted?
Speaker 5 (08:24):
Well, I think the lack of communication has been one
of the biggest problems of this of this whole thing.
And when you have a nine to two win over
your biggest rival and the immediate aftermath is that both
pitchers are pissed off.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
You know something has gone wrong.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
You know it's a bad it's a bad It's either
a bad plan or a bad operation. And I think
at this case, it was a bad operation. I think
you can also you know, I would still argue it's
a bad, bad plan.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
But I don't know if I don't know if Bryce
would have been allowed to go those five ginnings he
didn't have a no hitter going.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
I think Dan realized he couldn't take a guy out
with a no hitter going.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I think the original plan was for him to go
four or five innings.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
But yeah, I wonder how much of Castillo's wrath had
to do with the fact that he could not get
the win.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
You know, analysts and people in baseball have devalued pitchers wins.
But the one person group that it means a lot
too still is pitchers themselves. They want that w and
when he couldn't get it, I think that that irritated.
And plus the fact that you know, he struggled all
year and he finally was in a groove, he was
(09:39):
pitching like the Castillo of old and suddenly they yank
him out.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Of the game.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
I mean, that's the That's the problem I have with
this plan is that it's when you is that success
is not rewarded.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
You're gonna get pulled no matter how well you pitched.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
Just to keep the the other guy getting his innings.
But I was very encourag that by the fact that
they had that Wilson and Woodworth met with them, and
the POTO met with them. I think this plan could
work if and this is a huge if, if there's
buy in from the pitchers, and there was not buy
in from them, but maybe now with the explanation of
(10:17):
how they planned to do it, maybe there will be
buy in. And you know, you were right, Dick, looking
purely at the numbers, it worked spectacularly. I mean two
point one two era in two games. You know, they
were in position to win both those games that both
those guys pitched well. So if I could somehow figure
(10:37):
out a way to make them happy with their usage,
I think it has a chance to work.
Speaker 6 (10:43):
Larry Stone with us, Larry, let's stay there, and I
want you to imagine I'm seeing a scale, a kind
of just a linear scale where on one end of
it we have the you could say, just cut up,
do what you're told, think only about the team, nothing
(11:04):
about yourself, right, Like, I don't know if you could
describe that as old school, what have you at the
under the end of the spectrum, you would have that
I think that you the term was used equitable. You
know what do what's equitable?
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Uh?
Speaker 6 (11:17):
You know, be hyper aware of of of players sensitivities
and what have you, and and the idea that they
that they're you know, finally tuned competitors that you know,
perhaps in Castillo's case, even from a cultural standpoint, has
this idea about about hey, this is what this is
the profile of a starting pitcher, and this is who
I am.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
That type of thing.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
So so if if those are two opposite ends of
the spectrum, you've been around ball a long time, where
do you think the best place to be is?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (11:46):
Are are you more sympathetic to the side that, hey,
shut up and do what the what you're told, or
are you more sympathetic to Hey, these guys are human beings,
and there's certain things that are embedded into the culture
of baseball that you have to be aware of how
these guys are going to be in pacted uh from
as a competitor and emotional scale. Where are you Where
are you on that that spectrum?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I'm more I'm more towards their human beings. I think
it's it's nice.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
To say, you know, do your job, you're getting paid
for it, But they're human beings and there's a motion
involved and uh, this is a very unorthodox uh system
here that really doesn't have a much of a track
record anywhere in baseball. So it's a it's a new
thing that they're being asked to do. And I just
I think it's it's a tough ask, uh for guys
(12:35):
that you know they're Bryce Miller is pitching for for
you know, arbitration, and you know he hasn't hit the
big money yet and stats are.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Important for that, you know. Uh.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
So I'm sure that's in the back of his mind
Castillo wants a new contract when this one's expires. So
those those are factors as well. But you know, I
think they are you know, they're doing it.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
They're they're there.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
May be reluctantly and with with you know, some some resentment,
but they are going out there and doing it.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
So that just shut up and do your job people.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
You know, the answer is in in in their actions
and so so they are. They are performing. They're not
pouting or pro protesting.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
You know, visit a little bit, right, I mean we're throwing.
Speaker 6 (13:22):
We're throwing, and we're telling the press that we're not.
And I don't mean to be contrarian. I mean, I
mean just to we don't want to knock down a
straw man, let's steal man this thing that they are
on some level outwardly protesting and appearing, at least in
the eyes of something to be selfish.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
Right, So yeah, yeah, true, But but bottom line is,
you know they're they're out there, They're still out there
pitching their their their butt.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
So so.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
And I you know, I I I think heat of
the moment anger like that from from Castillo, I I
I understand it, and I don't holde that against him
and think it's selfishness or anything like that. You know,
you know, part of athletics is selfishness, because the better
you are as.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
An individual, the better for the team in a lot
of cases.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Larry, there's another quote from Bryce Miller after his prior
start that really resonated with me, and it was this
he said, this year, it's different. We know we're the
best team in the West, we know that we should
be the best team in the American League, and it's like,
at times we just haven't proven it. Sometimes we just
don't have that attitude of everybody's coming to beat us,
(14:35):
and we're just flat sometimes. And man, has that manifested
itself so many times this year, most recently Saturday and Sunday,
where there's drop transfers and throws that are fifteen feet
wide and Randy boot in to play for three runs
and it's just like an absolute mess. And I'm wondering,
(14:57):
and this might not be the best time to bring
it up, because they just sweat o Gland. I understand that,
but still, why do they slip into this malaise where
like two of their three or four losses every week
they just look dead on arrival and who do you
put that on?
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, I mean that game. I guess it was Sunday
where they made all those mistakes.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
Yeah, that was as bad as that was as bad
a game as as I've seen in a long time.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
And Saturday were lifeless too, totally lifeless Saturday.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
Yeah, you know, I kind of wonder, you know, when
when Randy made that uh that bad read on that
ball and kind of back pedaled back and then went
off the wall and then uh, you know, Julio was
due up first next inning and he didn't come out,
and they you know, it's late for.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
Yeah, but I think I think, you know, Dan alluded
to the fact that he was having a defensive discussion.
I wonder if he like laid down the lot of
Randy at that point in the dugout and that's why
he was late to his uh to his appearance, and
whether you know, maybe that was a sort of a
wake up moment for them, like we you know, pull
(16:05):
your head out and we got a game to win.
But yeah, it falls on them. It does fall on
the manager ultimately. And if they had gone to Oakland
and gotten swept instead of sweeping, can you imagine strive
for his for I mean that's three just three games,
but there would have been a huge cry for him
(16:25):
to be fired.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I never you know, I don't don't.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
I never thought he was going to get fired in May,
coming off the year that he had.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
But uh, you know, if.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
They're still playing that sort of way you described in July,
I think you know that conversation will have would be renewed.
But uh, you know, it's it's also going to be
hard to fire a Dan Wilson, a franchise legend that
I felt that from the day they hired him. You know,
(16:55):
how how do you fire a Dan Wilson? And yeah,
you know, I don't think it's I don't think it's
come to that, right. Yeah, And maybe they'll just we'll
look back at that discussion and laugh in a month
when they're for the six games in the league.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
But right now it's relevant.
Speaker 6 (17:08):
You know, I'm going to push back a little bit
against both of you, Larry and Dick in this regard,
and I'm totally prepared to accept your version and we'll
come to an agreement on this. But it you know,
from coach I coached twenty four seasons of football with
kids and you know, been around it a bit. And
(17:29):
and I look and I say, when when things don't
go right, is that it was that an execution breakdown?
Or was it an effort breakdown? I put the effort
breakdown in terms of focus or hustle. Right, And so
when we when we talk, when we say that we
booted a ball or that we turned and I saw
(17:50):
like that a rose Arena play was awful. That was
something out of bad news Bearers, right, it was a
terrible play. But how can we gleanly just say where
we just say, hey, these guys aren't into it today.
They're they're flat, they're mostly not there. Uh, certainly you
you cite you know, if Julio doesn't know when his
(18:10):
next damn ab is, that would absolutely be not focused.
But but sometimes you have these type of errors or
what have you, or you look flat or what have
you because you might be trying too hard. We're sitting there,
we're gonna we're gonna say, well, they're not trying hard enough,
they're not focused enough. It could be the opposite. And
(18:33):
so how do we how do we say these are
signs that are reliable indicators that they are truly not
focused versus maybe they're just pressing. Maybe they're like, oh
my god, we're we're we're we're not leading up to
living up to our potential. Uh, And now all of
a sudden they're tight and then we see ears because
(18:54):
of that. So I'm just fine. It could be you
get the same result, but they come from totally one
hundred and eighty degrees apart mindsets.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
Larry, Yeah, well it's hard to just I agree with you,
you know, And I never liked to call out athletes
for for for lack of effort because that's impossible for anyone.
In most cases, it's impossible to know what their level
(19:23):
of effort was, So I try not to do that.
But it's just looked like a team. You know, what
you said was true. How about the game? And you know,
I was at this game sitting in the stands. Everyone
in the stands was stunned when Randy Rose Arena ran
off the field because he thought there.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Were two outs. Yeah, that would be ye. You know,
at a key moment in that game.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
It was the I believe it was the Emerson Hancock
fourteen strikeout game when they retired Randy Johnson's uniform number
and they end up losing in in extra innings and
that could have been that could have been the difference
in the game, you know. H But yeah, there's just
been a lot of things this year where they've just
(20:04):
seemed unfocused and maybe it was maybe it is pressing
because of too much effort, I'll give you that. But
you know, teams have to good teams figure that out
and get past that. And they weren't doing that for
two months. But now maybe they're at a point where
you know, they're going to take off.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Like I said, Yeah, let's hope this series is a
precursor of things to come.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Always a pleasure. Larry, thank you.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
All right, Thanks guys, Thanks Larry.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
You bet Larry Stone, we'll get back to the Seahawks
conversation with you. He was just kind of getting into
a little comparison between the Seahawks and his Cowboys team,
who were trying to defend a Super Bowl championship.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
We'll do that next on ninety three point three KJFM.
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