May 27, 2026 • 12 mins
Dick Fain and Hugh Millen speak to Mike Florio about the Josh Jacobs arrest, a future deal between the Seahawks and Devon Witherspoon as well as the difficulty for teams to repeat Super Bowl championships.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time for a weekly conversation with Pro Football Talks
Mike Florio, brought to you by Simply Seattle. Tired of
buying and repping the same old Seattle sports gear everyone
else has. For the best Storm, Seahawks, Mariners, Kraken, Rainiers, Sounders,
and not to mention, the largest Sonics collection in the world,
check out simply Seattle dot com. Now with Mike Florio,
(00:21):
here's SOFTI and Dick ah.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yes, we can't cleep the man from Pro Football Talk waiting,
despite the fact that the Mariners swept the Las Vegas
slash Sacramento slash Oakland A's whatever the hell they're called.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Michael, How you doing man?
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Doing great? How are you guys?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
We're doing well, We're doing well.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Lots going on, OTA's are starting, but let's start with
the police blodder. There is a sizable name in the NFL,
Josh Jacobs in trouble five counts.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
What's going on right now with the running back? Well.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
The development today following yesterday's rest was that the prosecutor
has issued a statement explaining that currently there's not enough
evidence to support filing official charges. Prosecutor appropriately and accurately
explained the difference between the standard for making an arrest,
which is probable cause to believe that a crime has
been committed, and getting a conviction, which is proof beyond
(01:19):
a reasonable doubt prosecuted extremely broad discretion. People think a
judge is the most powerful person in jurisdiction, it's the prosecutor.
Prosecutor decides who gets charged who doesn't get charged, and
there are very limited ways to question that. So in
this case, in this case, what's happening is the prosecutor
(01:40):
wants to wait and see what kind of evidence there is.
And this is what should happen with Stephan Digg. That
trial that occurred a few weeks back, it was clear
that that prosecution never should have happened. So it looks
like the prosecutor in Wisconsin is going to be responsible, prudent,
and deliberate in making a decision as to whether or
not these are rest charges become formal charges that would
(02:03):
then possibly unlock paid leave for Josh Jacobs, significant legal expenses,
and ultimate jeopardy as to whether or not he would
be convicted.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
Yeah, walk us through that again, Mike. Obviously, the league,
you know, they sit back, they monitor at some level.
They have to consider the evidence, right, but they're not
bound to the same burdens of proof that you mentioned
that exists in a criminal court. Just kind of what's
maybe it's revised from from some past incidents. But how
(02:34):
does the league handle situations like this and when do
they act in terms of, you know, meeting out certain
penalties in these circumstances.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Well, back in twenty fourteen, when there were three different incidents,
unrelated but all occurring at roughly the same time frame,
it's Gray Hardy and Adrian Peterson, that's when the league
devised the procedure for putting a player on what they
call the Commissioner EXMP list. It's paid leave. It's a
way to basically keep the player off the field, not
(03:05):
put broadcasters in a position where they need to talk
about the fact that there's this guy who's playing that
is facing serious charges and the way it's developed over
the years. The lead uses it typically when you've got
a domestic violence charge that rises to the level of
a felony. One of these five preliminary charges against Josh
Jacobs would be a felony suffocation strangulation in the domestic
(03:28):
violence situation, So if he would be indicted. If he
would be formally charged with a felony arising from a
claim of domestic violence, that's the kind of thing that
would potentially, if not likely, result in him being placed
on paid leave until the case is resolved. And then
there's a separate investigation and decision making process that would
(03:48):
culminate in a potential suspension without pay under the Personal
Conduct Policy. So there's a lot that hinges on this
threshold question of whether or not the prosecutor is going
to too pursue charges because if that happens, there's a
good chance I'm not going to see Josh Jacobs week one,
or really any time until that criminal case has resolved
and then the league's punishment is meeted out.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Well, speak of seeing players week one, there's a couple
of quarterbacks that say you're going to see me week one,
and they were involved in OTAs. I don't know if
they were just photo ops or if they were actually
practicing for OTAs. But tell us about the rapid recovery
of Patrick Mahomes and Daniel Jones.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Yeah, both of these guys had serious leg injuries late
in the twenty twenty five regular season. Mahomes had the
torn acl He was back on the practice field for
the first time yesterday. Now, if you watch the video,
he's not driving into that plant leg. Of course, he's
never a guy to follow the traditional quarterback form. He
can deliver the football from any platform, any arm angle.
That's from his baseball experience. He doesn't need to have
(04:51):
all of the mechanics that so many quarterbacks absolutely require
in order to throw accurate passes. But he looks like
he's on track and there's no holding this guy down.
He knows, he knows what the stakes are, he knows
what his legacy is. He knows that last year was
a disaster relative to the standard the Chiefs is set,
and he wants to get back on it and continue
his quest for enough Super Bowl wins to match, if
(05:12):
not to pass, Tom Brady and Daniel Jones. He had
the torn achilles, and he looks like he's good to go.
The issue with Jones is when you look over the
course of his career dating back to twenty nineteen, he's
had multiple significant injuries. He needs a fundamental change to
the way he plays. You know, we hear that concern
with plenty of quarterbacks. You never hear it with Jones
the way that you should. This guy puts himself in
(05:33):
a position where he takes big hits, he gets himself
potentially injured, He moves a lot, he uses that mobility.
He turns twenty nine today. At some point, any quarterback
that relies heavily on mobility needs to transition to more
of a pocket passer and not take risks with his body,
because as you get older, those injuries are going to
happen even more easily than they did when you're in
your twenties.
Speaker 5 (05:54):
Mike Florio with this, Mike, let's stay with the quarterbacks,
four high profile names for different reasons. But let's start
in Cleveland Deshaun Watson and Shador Sanders having their battle,
and then also in Minnesota, Kyler Murray joins the foray
with JJ McCarthy. Can you how can you update those situations?
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Well, I think in both instances the thing that makes
them similar. The sooner you make a decision, the more
time you have to get the guy who wins the
competition ready. The longer it takes to figure out who
the starter is, the less chance that guy has to
be prepared to hold that job as long as possible.
And in many of these protracted quarterback battles. The guy
(06:37):
who wins ultimately wins the privilege of being the first
guy benched, which seems to happen, you know, whenever it
starts to feel like the season is getting away from
the team in Cleveland. It's very intriguing because Deshaun Watson
is a reclamation project at this point. The only reason
he's still on the team is because every penny of
his five year contract is fully guaranteed. He'd have been
long gone by now if this salary wasn't guaranteed for
(07:00):
twenty twenty six. But he looks good with the clean
slate under Todd Monkin and then Tetra dur Sanders, the
guy who filled them in round five last year. They
say he's improving, but the sooner in both cases, one
of these guys is the start of the better off
both teams will being in Minnesota. I think it's an
upset if Kyler Murray doesn't win. They can say all
they want, it's a real competition. Well, you could put
(07:22):
you know, Patrick Mahomes against just pick a random backup
quarterback and say it's a real competition. We know who's
gonna win. Kyler Murray. If he is playing like we've
seen him perform in the past, he's going to win
the competition against aj McCarthy. The challenge is for McCarthy
to access some level of a performance we've never seen
(07:42):
from him before.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
I'm gonna steal Hughes question and expand into the Las
Vegas Raiders because I mean just seems like a perfect
scenario to red shirt Mendoza for a little bit at
least behind Kirk Cousins, specifically since one of their owners,
Tom Brady, did the same thing behind Drew bled So
I want it worked for him.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
But is that what they're going to do.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Well.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
The one thing we got to remember when it comes
to a situation like that is merit. And when the
two quarterbacks are out there, apples to apples and the
players can see what they do. If it's a significant difference,
they're going to want the guy who's better. None of
those guys who have been there, like Max Crosby, none
of them want to play with a lesser quarterback if
(08:23):
there's a better option available. That's the toughest thing to sell.
You want the best guy out there. So I think
that it's a no lose situation for the Raiders. If
kirk Cousins is significantly better than Mendoza, than Mendoza sits.
But you know what, I look at it this way.
I'll due respect to kirk Cousins, who've had some very
good years, but he's creeping toward forty and he hasn't
(08:44):
been great since he torn the Achilles tendon a couple
of years ago. If if Mendoza can't beat out kirk Cousins,
why the hell do you making the first overall pick
in the draft. It's that simple. So a fair competition,
Mendoza should win, and if he doesn't, that should be
a red flag to the Raider is that maybe they
picked the wrong guy.
Speaker 5 (09:02):
Mike out here locally in Seattle, we've got the news
is the Seahawks are trying to quote run it forward,
obviously as the Super Bowl champions. Just your thoughts, having
covered Super Bowl champions and the challenge coming back to
try and repeat, how would you advise Mike McDonald based
(09:23):
on the things that you've observed in your capacity.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Well, it's funny. The reason they make all his t
shirts with football team slogans on them is because if
they resonate they're successful.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
So if running forward is.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
What gets everybody focused on the task at hand, of
forgetting about last year. And that's a twist all what
we used to hear from Bill Belichick all the time.
He didn't want to talk about the past.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
He wanted to put the.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Last championship behind them as soon as possible. He wanted
to get that ring ceremony over with. He did not
want anything that would distract the team from the goal now,
because what you did last year does not matter. No
one cares. A new season is coming, and the teams
that become satisfied by the fact that they climbed to
the top of the mountain had no chance to do
(10:07):
it again because they're going to have the target on
their back this year. The other thirty one teams are
going to be necessarily hungrier. And it is a major
challenge to repeat in today's NFL. So why we don't
see it happen very often? It was amazing the Chiefs
did it, how they almost won three in a row
before that, it was twenty years when the Patriots did it.
It is very hard to do. And yet I remember
(10:28):
Terry Bradshaw saying when he was at the Steelers, and
you know they won four in what six or seven years.
Once you climb to the top of the mountain and
you go back to the bottom, like we just climbed
that mountain, like what else is there? And Bradshaw was
the first one to start stacking them. I think it's
easier now when you have quarterbacks who are chasing greats
(10:50):
who have a significant number of championship wins. But just
when you look at it in isolation, the goal is
to be the best, and we were the best, and
I think it takes a lot of focus. It takes
some great coaching can get guys to forget about what
they just did and focus on trying to do it again.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Finally, Mike, should we be concerned at all that the
Devin Watherspoon extension isn't going as smoothly as the JSN
one did?
Speaker 4 (11:14):
No, No, not yet, not yet. Let's see what happens
before training camp. That's usually the time to question whether
or not there may be the possibility of a holdout.
Holdouts are very expensive. Hold Ins have become in vogue
in recent years. Because of that. We see a lot
of deals get done either right before camp or right
before the start of the season, and Witherspoon's got the
(11:36):
protection that comes from the fifth year option, so if
he would have some sort of an injury, he gets
all of his money this year, all of his money
next year. But the ultimate security is to get your
long term deal, the deal that you have earned. And
here's the reality. The longer you a wait, the more
expensive it gets. There's going to be new deals that
come out to drive the market higher. The CAP's going
to go up. And so the absence of a deal
(11:57):
right now tells you that the Spoon's camp want us
more than what the Seahawks have been willing to pay.
The question becomes can they find the middle ground? And
you know, when it's time to go out and play,
what Witherspoon's going to have to ask himself. Am I
comfortable saying no to the offense's on the table and
taking my chances with what I know I'm going to
make the next two years?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Mike, always a pleasure. We'll talk to you next week.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Thanks us, Thanks Thanks met Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk.
Let's talk to Hugh about the whole run it forward
and should we concerned about Devin Witherspoon at all? We'll
talk to little Seahawks football. Mariners get a big win today.
We'll talk more Mariner baseball a little bit later on
in the show. They are now in first place in
the AL West, believe it or not, at twenty eight
and twenty nine. After winning today nine to one, they
(12:40):
outscore the A's twenty two to four in the series.
So finally all is right in Marinerland that much more
Next on ninety three point three KJFM.
It's time for a weekly conversation with Pro Football Talks
Mike Florio, brought to you by Simply Seattle. Tired of
buying and repping the same old Seattle sports gear everyone
else has. For the best Storm, Seahawks, Mariners, Kraken, Rainiers, Sounders,
and not to mention, the largest Sonics collection in the world,
check out simply Seattle dot com. Now with Mike Florio,
(00:21):
here's SOFTI and Dick ah.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yes, we can't cleep the man from Pro Football Talk waiting,
despite the fact that the Mariners swept the Las Vegas
slash Sacramento slash Oakland A's whatever the hell they're called.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Michael, How you doing man?
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Doing great? How are you guys?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
We're doing well, We're doing well.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Lots going on, OTA's are starting, but let's start with
the police blodder. There is a sizable name in the NFL,
Josh Jacobs in trouble five counts.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
What's going on right now with the running back? Well.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
The development today following yesterday's rest was that the prosecutor
has issued a statement explaining that currently there's not enough
evidence to support filing official charges. Prosecutor appropriately and accurately
explained the difference between the standard for making an arrest,
which is probable cause to believe that a crime has
been committed, and getting a conviction, which is proof beyond
(01:19):
a reasonable doubt prosecuted extremely broad discretion. People think a
judge is the most powerful person in jurisdiction, it's the prosecutor.
Prosecutor decides who gets charged who doesn't get charged, and
there are very limited ways to question that. So in
this case, in this case, what's happening is the prosecutor
(01:40):
wants to wait and see what kind of evidence there is.
And this is what should happen with Stephan Digg. That
trial that occurred a few weeks back, it was clear
that that prosecution never should have happened. So it looks
like the prosecutor in Wisconsin is going to be responsible, prudent,
and deliberate in making a decision as to whether or
not these are rest charges become formal charges that would
(02:03):
then possibly unlock paid leave for Josh Jacobs, significant legal expenses,
and ultimate jeopardy as to whether or not he would
be convicted.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
Yeah, walk us through that again, Mike. Obviously, the league,
you know, they sit back, they monitor at some level.
They have to consider the evidence, right, but they're not
bound to the same burdens of proof that you mentioned
that exists in a criminal court. Just kind of what's
maybe it's revised from from some past incidents. But how
(02:34):
does the league handle situations like this and when do
they act in terms of, you know, meeting out certain
penalties in these circumstances.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Well, back in twenty fourteen, when there were three different incidents,
unrelated but all occurring at roughly the same time frame,
it's Gray Hardy and Adrian Peterson, that's when the league
devised the procedure for putting a player on what they
call the Commissioner EXMP list. It's paid leave. It's a
way to basically keep the player off the field, not
(03:05):
put broadcasters in a position where they need to talk
about the fact that there's this guy who's playing that
is facing serious charges and the way it's developed over
the years. The lead uses it typically when you've got
a domestic violence charge that rises to the level of
a felony. One of these five preliminary charges against Josh
Jacobs would be a felony suffocation strangulation in the domestic
(03:28):
violence situation, So if he would be indicted. If he
would be formally charged with a felony arising from a
claim of domestic violence, that's the kind of thing that
would potentially, if not likely, result in him being placed
on paid leave until the case is resolved. And then
there's a separate investigation and decision making process that would
(03:48):
culminate in a potential suspension without pay under the Personal
Conduct Policy. So there's a lot that hinges on this
threshold question of whether or not the prosecutor is going
to too pursue charges because if that happens, there's a
good chance I'm not going to see Josh Jacobs week one,
or really any time until that criminal case has resolved
and then the league's punishment is meeted out.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Well, speak of seeing players week one, there's a couple
of quarterbacks that say you're going to see me week one,
and they were involved in OTAs. I don't know if
they were just photo ops or if they were actually
practicing for OTAs. But tell us about the rapid recovery
of Patrick Mahomes and Daniel Jones.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Yeah, both of these guys had serious leg injuries late
in the twenty twenty five regular season. Mahomes had the
torn acl He was back on the practice field for
the first time yesterday. Now, if you watch the video,
he's not driving into that plant leg. Of course, he's
never a guy to follow the traditional quarterback form. He
can deliver the football from any platform, any arm angle.
That's from his baseball experience. He doesn't need to have
(04:51):
all of the mechanics that so many quarterbacks absolutely require
in order to throw accurate passes. But he looks like
he's on track and there's no holding this guy down.
He knows, he knows what the stakes are, he knows
what his legacy is. He knows that last year was
a disaster relative to the standard the Chiefs is set,
and he wants to get back on it and continue
his quest for enough Super Bowl wins to match, if
(05:12):
not to pass, Tom Brady and Daniel Jones. He had
the torn achilles, and he looks like he's good to go.
The issue with Jones is when you look over the
course of his career dating back to twenty nineteen, he's
had multiple significant injuries. He needs a fundamental change to
the way he plays. You know, we hear that concern
with plenty of quarterbacks. You never hear it with Jones
the way that you should. This guy puts himself in
(05:33):
a position where he takes big hits, he gets himself
potentially injured, He moves a lot, he uses that mobility.
He turns twenty nine today. At some point, any quarterback
that relies heavily on mobility needs to transition to more
of a pocket passer and not take risks with his body,
because as you get older, those injuries are going to
happen even more easily than they did when you're in
your twenties.
Speaker 5 (05:54):
Mike Florio with this, Mike, let's stay with the quarterbacks,
four high profile names for different reasons. But let's start
in Cleveland Deshaun Watson and Shador Sanders having their battle,
and then also in Minnesota, Kyler Murray joins the foray
with JJ McCarthy. Can you how can you update those situations?
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Well, I think in both instances the thing that makes
them similar. The sooner you make a decision, the more
time you have to get the guy who wins the
competition ready. The longer it takes to figure out who
the starter is, the less chance that guy has to
be prepared to hold that job as long as possible.
And in many of these protracted quarterback battles. The guy
(06:37):
who wins ultimately wins the privilege of being the first
guy benched, which seems to happen, you know, whenever it
starts to feel like the season is getting away from
the team in Cleveland. It's very intriguing because Deshaun Watson
is a reclamation project at this point. The only reason
he's still on the team is because every penny of
his five year contract is fully guaranteed. He'd have been
long gone by now if this salary wasn't guaranteed for
(07:00):
twenty twenty six. But he looks good with the clean
slate under Todd Monkin and then Tetra dur Sanders, the
guy who filled them in round five last year. They
say he's improving, but the sooner in both cases, one
of these guys is the start of the better off
both teams will being in Minnesota. I think it's an
upset if Kyler Murray doesn't win. They can say all
they want, it's a real competition. Well, you could put
(07:22):
you know, Patrick Mahomes against just pick a random backup
quarterback and say it's a real competition. We know who's
gonna win. Kyler Murray. If he is playing like we've
seen him perform in the past, he's going to win
the competition against aj McCarthy. The challenge is for McCarthy
to access some level of a performance we've never seen
(07:42):
from him before.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
I'm gonna steal Hughes question and expand into the Las
Vegas Raiders because I mean just seems like a perfect
scenario to red shirt Mendoza for a little bit at
least behind Kirk Cousins, specifically since one of their owners,
Tom Brady, did the same thing behind Drew bled So
I want it worked for him.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
But is that what they're going to do.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Well.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
The one thing we got to remember when it comes
to a situation like that is merit. And when the
two quarterbacks are out there, apples to apples and the
players can see what they do. If it's a significant difference,
they're going to want the guy who's better. None of
those guys who have been there, like Max Crosby, none
of them want to play with a lesser quarterback if
(08:23):
there's a better option available. That's the toughest thing to sell.
You want the best guy out there. So I think
that it's a no lose situation for the Raiders. If
kirk Cousins is significantly better than Mendoza, than Mendoza sits.
But you know what, I look at it this way.
I'll due respect to kirk Cousins, who've had some very
good years, but he's creeping toward forty and he hasn't
(08:44):
been great since he torn the Achilles tendon a couple
of years ago. If if Mendoza can't beat out kirk Cousins,
why the hell do you making the first overall pick
in the draft. It's that simple. So a fair competition,
Mendoza should win, and if he doesn't, that should be
a red flag to the Raider is that maybe they
picked the wrong guy.
Speaker 5 (09:02):
Mike out here locally in Seattle, we've got the news
is the Seahawks are trying to quote run it forward,
obviously as the Super Bowl champions. Just your thoughts, having
covered Super Bowl champions and the challenge coming back to
try and repeat, how would you advise Mike McDonald based
(09:23):
on the things that you've observed in your capacity.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Well, it's funny. The reason they make all his t
shirts with football team slogans on them is because if
they resonate they're successful.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
So if running forward is.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
What gets everybody focused on the task at hand, of
forgetting about last year. And that's a twist all what
we used to hear from Bill Belichick all the time.
He didn't want to talk about the past.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
He wanted to put the.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Last championship behind them as soon as possible. He wanted
to get that ring ceremony over with. He did not
want anything that would distract the team from the goal now,
because what you did last year does not matter. No
one cares. A new season is coming, and the teams
that become satisfied by the fact that they climbed to
the top of the mountain had no chance to do
(10:07):
it again because they're going to have the target on
their back this year. The other thirty one teams are
going to be necessarily hungrier. And it is a major
challenge to repeat in today's NFL. So why we don't
see it happen very often? It was amazing the Chiefs
did it, how they almost won three in a row
before that, it was twenty years when the Patriots did it.
It is very hard to do. And yet I remember
(10:28):
Terry Bradshaw saying when he was at the Steelers, and
you know they won four in what six or seven years.
Once you climb to the top of the mountain and
you go back to the bottom, like we just climbed
that mountain, like what else is there? And Bradshaw was
the first one to start stacking them. I think it's
easier now when you have quarterbacks who are chasing greats
(10:50):
who have a significant number of championship wins. But just
when you look at it in isolation, the goal is
to be the best, and we were the best, and
I think it takes a lot of focus. It takes
some great coaching can get guys to forget about what
they just did and focus on trying to do it again.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Finally, Mike, should we be concerned at all that the
Devin Watherspoon extension isn't going as smoothly as the JSN
one did?
Speaker 4 (11:14):
No, No, not yet, not yet. Let's see what happens
before training camp. That's usually the time to question whether
or not there may be the possibility of a holdout.
Holdouts are very expensive. Hold Ins have become in vogue
in recent years. Because of that. We see a lot
of deals get done either right before camp or right
before the start of the season, and Witherspoon's got the
(11:36):
protection that comes from the fifth year option, so if
he would have some sort of an injury, he gets
all of his money this year, all of his money
next year. But the ultimate security is to get your
long term deal, the deal that you have earned. And
here's the reality. The longer you a wait, the more
expensive it gets. There's going to be new deals that
come out to drive the market higher. The CAP's going
to go up. And so the absence of a deal
(11:57):
right now tells you that the Spoon's camp want us
more than what the Seahawks have been willing to pay.
The question becomes can they find the middle ground? And
you know, when it's time to go out and play,
what Witherspoon's going to have to ask himself. Am I
comfortable saying no to the offense's on the table and
taking my chances with what I know I'm going to
make the next two years?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Mike, always a pleasure. We'll talk to you next week.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Thanks us, Thanks Thanks met Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk.
Let's talk to Hugh about the whole run it forward
and should we concerned about Devin Witherspoon at all? We'll
talk to little Seahawks football. Mariners get a big win today.
We'll talk more Mariner baseball a little bit later on
in the show. They are now in first place in
the AL West, believe it or not, at twenty eight
and twenty nine. After winning today nine to one, they
(12:40):
outscore the A's twenty two to four in the series.
So finally all is right in Marinerland that much more
Next on ninety three point three KJFM.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com