July 23, 2024 • 11 mins
Former Olympic Rower Eric Murray joined D'Arcy Waldegrave to discuss the ruthless nature of the NZOC selection process - are sports worse off because of it?
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talks That'd.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Be We'll joined now by Eric Murray, long time celebrated Olympian.
As we look towards the start the thirty third Olympiad
in Paris, there's always discussion around qualifying but not getting
to go. Some athletes have got what it takes officially,
but they haven't got what it takes when it comes
to the people that count. Eric joins us now to
(00:34):
talk about that qualifying in general. Eric, welcome to the program.
So tell us about that you qualify but you don't
get to go. What kind of considerations the athletes have
in that space in the lead up to being nominated
for the Olympic Games.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Well, you do, and there's just so many complexities around
it because you know, not only most sports because of
the Olympics, can't be absolutely massive, you know, these limited
quota spaces depending on your sport or your event. And
then obviously we've seen in the media and stuff like that,
we don't just send people to be representatives, you know,
(01:10):
which I'm on the fence about a little bit as well.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
You know, like you know, we want people to excel.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
There's obviously a cost to it, there's everything else, so
it's a really tricky scenario in terms of that. But yes, everybody,
everybody is searching to try and be at the Olympics
because it's obviously your pinnacle event and it's very special,
you know. And from my experience the first one in
Athens years ago, it was the catalyst to be like,
(01:37):
I don't just want to be here and be a number.
I want to be further. And that's what you find,
especially in our team as well, that you've got some
I guess some of the senior experienced people, you know,
whether that's in the rugby or you take the likes
of in the twig, you know, or you've got young
people that are just in the team, you know, their
first Olympics and they're like, wow, this is going to
be an experience.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
And you know, to get to that point obviously as massive.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
But our team, New Zealand team and over the years
with our different shift of missions, has done amazing job
in creating a culture of our team, you know, and
the New Zealand team is probably one of you know,
one of the titles that you'd probably see just in
the way that we do everything overseas, and the camaraderie
within the whole group and the whole team being able
(02:22):
to sit in a communal area to watch and support
the team members. And I think that's really does what
make it special and probably does make it even special
for New Zealand itself.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
You touched on the qualification and it's been called not
my quote, but fundamentally flawed the NZ and OCS approach
around the blanket top sixteen standard for people to actually
qualify regardless of the sport. Now, there is trouble there
when you consider, I'm supposing Eric Murray, just how deep
(02:55):
some sports run and how big they actually are. In
your time as an Olympian, was that discussed much about
that cutoff mark.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
There was a few occasions, you know, and I think
that's what we've got to realize is it's not in
every single sport, right and and there are a few occasions.
You know, you can take Rome for example, some of
them don't even have sixteen crews, you know, so that automatically,
like Aea Beauty, I'm in.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
It doesn't matter, I'm going to be top sixteen anyway.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
But of course there are there are cases, yes, where
there's criteria, and there's more people that are doing it
that could potentially be there, and the numbers for.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Entry are quite large. So yes, there are there are
things that are spoken about.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
But I guess it's one of these scenarios where you know,
we talk about it, and we have the media that
talk about and you have athletes and stuff that talk
about it. But we've got to look at the flip side.
You know, who's paying for it, you know, as a
tax bad paying for this? Is the IOC paying for
it because I know they pay for a chunk, but
they don't pay for it all.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
So then we could keep going on this all Dadarcia.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
It's about you know, medals, medals and the and the
funding that goes towards high performance sport. You know, is
there a model that can be done better?
Speaker 4 (03:58):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
These are all the things that I think with the
development of society and just with open and honest conversation
with everybody, that it's things that we can talk about
in the future going forward.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
But the case of this badminton player, I don't not
is walked away after being denied a spot. Apparently he qualified,
he should have been fine. He just wasn't selected and
that was just enough.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
He's just walked.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
That's quite damaging for his careers. Should that be something
that has looked at in the wider scale about the
effect that has mentally on athletes who are good enough
but not deemed good enough by the Olympic Committee?
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Oh no, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
And I think that I think that those you know,
those those conversations are going deeper, right, and we're obviously
pinpointing one because it's it's the forefront of what everybody's
talking about.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
And I don't know the solution. You know, We've.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Obviously it's like anything, Darcy, You've got to put a
criteria in place, right, you have to, and it just means,
you know, and you're going to get some people that
fall outside of that criteria who are going to feel
hard done by.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Now.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I truly believe, yes, if we could, if it's not
costing and we could afford to see and does many
people that qualify under international standards send a lot of them.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Right, I believe that that's how it should be.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
But this, this is the problem that we've got, is
that I'm not the one making the decisions in the NZOC.
I don't know the ins and outs of the funding.
I don't know the ins and outs of all those models,
so what can we do, you know? And obviously it's
going to be something that comes out of this going forward.
And I believe that, yes, if you qualify as an
international standard, there's a reason that there's an international standard.
(05:35):
And I know that New Zealand wants to keep this
high level of you know, competition and standard of people
that are going. But I can honestly say there's been
so many people that have gone to the Olympics and
spent one one Olympics going there and the next time they
come out they're so much better, right, And what's that
done for the development of the sports? You know, Let's
(05:57):
take kayaking for example, we were's cano racing and kayaking
come since Beijing, Right we had Fuey, Now we've got
Carrington and look at what that's done for the sport
in New Zealand. And that's what we've really got to
look at, is how this can affect those sports going forward.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Hasten to add the case of the badminton play was
at the Toki olymp because it's not just recently for
people listening on into this what's the purpose of the
Olympic Games. I suppose that's what it comes back down to.
What actually needs to be generated. Why people are involved
in this. Is this an aspirational event? Is as purely
about winning medals? Is it for the health of the nation.
(06:35):
What do you think the expectation is across the board.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
I think it's all of the above.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Plus you've got generational motivation, you know, expectation and people
going that I'd love that to be me one day.
You know, we're talking about sitting there overnight watching the
Olympic you know, the media articles that come out of it,
the employment that comes out of it, the economic benefit
(07:02):
that can come out of it in certain different ways.
It's such a massive, I guess area of everything, you know,
and it brings it all together. And yes, the Olympics
are the pinnacle of most of a lot of sports.
There's professionalism in sports these days where they're not in
they're not in the Olympics, you know, But for the
majority of a lot of other sports, this is it.
(07:23):
This is as big as it gets and it's always
been there, right And we look back on history and
I know we look back on history, but at the
same time, we have to look at moving forward, right,
because we can just look at the last twenty years
of technical, technological developments just in human society and.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
The way that we are.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Everything's just moving so fast, and so those are the
conversations that always need to be had.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
A situation where Sammy Maxwell, the mountain biker has had
her decision not to go overturned, she's actually gone to court,
gone to a tribunal to get that overturned. That's a
lot of work to go through, I speak, quite stressful
for an athlete to it ex even come down to that.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
No, I don't think it should.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
But you've got a criteria right, and you've got you've
got this is what it is, right And I don't
know how to I don't know really how to describe it.
But it's like saying I was driving one hundred and
five and one hundred k k zone. You get a
ticket and you're like, but it was only one k
over you see, you know, like you can't argue, and
they're like, yeah, but we only want people to go
(08:25):
that are at this level and you're outside that level.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
You know, you can't How do you how do you change?
Do we change it?
Speaker 3 (08:32):
And just say as long as you create a world
standard of going to the Olympics, you're more than welcome
to go.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Yes, right, that's how I feel that it.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Should be, because we're not talking we're not talking fifty people,
We're talking three four five.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Right, it can't be that hard.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
What about comparing to other nations when they send people
to games like for the ski jumping for the eagle
edwards back at the Winter Olympics, so not a chance
of doing anything, but taxpayer money and funding going over
there created huge vibrations and waves in the event even
though did nothing. Is it fair for us to compare
(09:13):
ourselves with nations that don't have a hope and hell
of winning, but they're sending athletes anyway?
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Well, I think that's that's this. This is where the
problem is.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
We get onto a sports by sport basis, and you know,
if we're a small sport, you want to grow the sports.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
So you're like, yes, let's see this person.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
But then you've got criteria and and this is this
is always the problem is once you start getting into
rules and criteria, it's very hard to go away from
those because then as you say you've got to you
got to end up in bloody tribunal sports tribunal lord
into court to say, hang on a minute, you know,
like can we can we redo these these these protocols
and these processes, and that's where it lies. But yes,
(09:52):
you can. You can create Eddie the Eagles, you know, Eric,
the equatorial Yeah. Eric, They're all part of it, and
they are the stories.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
And that's the thing with the Olympics.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Right as you have your you have your story about
your winners, you know, and people that tried, and then
you have your Nikki Hamlin's you know, they're falling over
on the track and then they run together to the
finish and they win Olympic Solidarity medals and stuff like this,
and you'd like, those are the stories about what it's about.
Not everybody's going to be at the top level to
be able to compete, Not everybody's going to be at
(10:25):
the top level to have a chance of winning. But
at the same time, you've got so many people there
with dreams and aspirations that have been working towards us,
that have had supporters and people underneath them, the country
behind them.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Aren't those important enough?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
What about bias? Eric Murray around particular sports Are there
sports that probably curry more favor from the Olympic Committee
the other? Are there cool kids? Are there cool sports?
Do they tend towards one more than the other?
Speaker 4 (10:52):
I don't Wow, I don't know, Darcy, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Because obviously we can you can answer that. You can
answer that question by saying, what are the most funded
sports by high performance sport in New Zealand?
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Right? But I and as I say, I don't know.
They're full and and outs of it.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
And where where this high performance Sport New Zealand finish
and New Zealand Olympic Committee takeover?
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Are they?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Do they work closely enough together? Have they got slightly
different things? This is this is where we start to
because that's what you've got to remember, is that the
Olympic Committee is the one that suggests you to go,
whereas in normal and normal circumstances it's a national federation
that then submits it to a high performance sport who
says we're going to send these people over on a
board level.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
In your organization. So, yeah, are there two people?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Are there too many bloody people at the top making
decisions for athletes that are just trying to do their best.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
For more from sports talk, listen live to News Talk
sa'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talks That'd.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Be We'll joined now by Eric Murray, long time celebrated Olympian.
As we look towards the start the thirty third Olympiad
in Paris, there's always discussion around qualifying but not getting
to go. Some athletes have got what it takes officially,
but they haven't got what it takes when it comes
to the people that count. Eric joins us now to
(00:34):
talk about that qualifying in general. Eric, welcome to the program.
So tell us about that you qualify but you don't
get to go. What kind of considerations the athletes have
in that space in the lead up to being nominated
for the Olympic Games.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Well, you do, and there's just so many complexities around
it because you know, not only most sports because of
the Olympics, can't be absolutely massive, you know, these limited
quota spaces depending on your sport or your event. And
then obviously we've seen in the media and stuff like that,
we don't just send people to be representatives, you know,
(01:10):
which I'm on the fence about a little bit as well.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
You know, like you know, we want people to excel.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
There's obviously a cost to it, there's everything else, so
it's a really tricky scenario in terms of that. But yes, everybody,
everybody is searching to try and be at the Olympics
because it's obviously your pinnacle event and it's very special,
you know. And from my experience the first one in
Athens years ago, it was the catalyst to be like,
(01:37):
I don't just want to be here and be a number.
I want to be further. And that's what you find,
especially in our team as well, that you've got some
I guess some of the senior experienced people, you know,
whether that's in the rugby or you take the likes
of in the twig, you know, or you've got young
people that are just in the team, you know, their
first Olympics and they're like, wow, this is going to
be an experience.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
And you know, to get to that point obviously as massive.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
But our team, New Zealand team and over the years
with our different shift of missions, has done amazing job
in creating a culture of our team, you know, and
the New Zealand team is probably one of you know,
one of the titles that you'd probably see just in
the way that we do everything overseas, and the camaraderie
within the whole group and the whole team being able
(02:22):
to sit in a communal area to watch and support
the team members. And I think that's really does what
make it special and probably does make it even special
for New Zealand itself.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
You touched on the qualification and it's been called not
my quote, but fundamentally flawed the NZ and OCS approach
around the blanket top sixteen standard for people to actually
qualify regardless of the sport. Now, there is trouble there
when you consider, I'm supposing Eric Murray, just how deep
(02:55):
some sports run and how big they actually are. In
your time as an Olympian, was that discussed much about
that cutoff mark.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
There was a few occasions, you know, and I think
that's what we've got to realize is it's not in
every single sport, right and and there are a few occasions.
You know, you can take Rome for example, some of
them don't even have sixteen crews, you know, so that automatically,
like Aea Beauty, I'm in.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
It doesn't matter, I'm going to be top sixteen anyway.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
But of course there are there are cases, yes, where
there's criteria, and there's more people that are doing it
that could potentially be there, and the numbers for.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Entry are quite large. So yes, there are there are
things that are spoken about.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
But I guess it's one of these scenarios where you know,
we talk about it, and we have the media that
talk about and you have athletes and stuff that talk
about it. But we've got to look at the flip side.
You know, who's paying for it, you know, as a
tax bad paying for this? Is the IOC paying for
it because I know they pay for a chunk, but
they don't pay for it all.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
So then we could keep going on this all Dadarcia.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
It's about you know, medals, medals and the and the
funding that goes towards high performance sport. You know, is
there a model that can be done better?
Speaker 4 (03:58):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
These are all the things that I think with the
development of society and just with open and honest conversation
with everybody, that it's things that we can talk about
in the future going forward.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
But the case of this badminton player, I don't not
is walked away after being denied a spot. Apparently he qualified,
he should have been fine. He just wasn't selected and
that was just enough.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
He's just walked.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
That's quite damaging for his careers. Should that be something
that has looked at in the wider scale about the
effect that has mentally on athletes who are good enough
but not deemed good enough by the Olympic Committee?
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Oh no, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
And I think that I think that those you know,
those those conversations are going deeper, right, and we're obviously
pinpointing one because it's it's the forefront of what everybody's
talking about.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
And I don't know the solution. You know, We've.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Obviously it's like anything, Darcy, You've got to put a
criteria in place, right, you have to, and it just means,
you know, and you're going to get some people that
fall outside of that criteria who are going to feel
hard done by.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Now.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I truly believe, yes, if we could, if it's not
costing and we could afford to see and does many
people that qualify under international standards send a lot of them.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Right, I believe that that's how it should be.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
But this, this is the problem that we've got, is
that I'm not the one making the decisions in the NZOC.
I don't know the ins and outs of the funding.
I don't know the ins and outs of all those models,
so what can we do, you know? And obviously it's
going to be something that comes out of this going forward.
And I believe that, yes, if you qualify as an
international standard, there's a reason that there's an international standard.
(05:35):
And I know that New Zealand wants to keep this
high level of you know, competition and standard of people
that are going. But I can honestly say there's been
so many people that have gone to the Olympics and
spent one one Olympics going there and the next time they
come out they're so much better, right, And what's that
done for the development of the sports? You know, Let's
(05:57):
take kayaking for example, we were's cano racing and kayaking
come since Beijing, Right we had Fuey, Now we've got
Carrington and look at what that's done for the sport
in New Zealand. And that's what we've really got to
look at, is how this can affect those sports going forward.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Hasten to add the case of the badminton play was
at the Toki olymp because it's not just recently for
people listening on into this what's the purpose of the
Olympic Games. I suppose that's what it comes back down to.
What actually needs to be generated. Why people are involved
in this. Is this an aspirational event? Is as purely
about winning medals? Is it for the health of the nation.
(06:35):
What do you think the expectation is across the board.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
I think it's all of the above.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Plus you've got generational motivation, you know, expectation and people
going that I'd love that to be me one day.
You know, we're talking about sitting there overnight watching the
Olympic you know, the media articles that come out of it,
the employment that comes out of it, the economic benefit
(07:02):
that can come out of it in certain different ways.
It's such a massive, I guess area of everything, you know,
and it brings it all together. And yes, the Olympics
are the pinnacle of most of a lot of sports.
There's professionalism in sports these days where they're not in
they're not in the Olympics, you know, But for the
majority of a lot of other sports, this is it.
(07:23):
This is as big as it gets and it's always
been there, right And we look back on history and
I know we look back on history, but at the
same time, we have to look at moving forward, right,
because we can just look at the last twenty years
of technical, technological developments just in human society and.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
The way that we are.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Everything's just moving so fast, and so those are the
conversations that always need to be had.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
A situation where Sammy Maxwell, the mountain biker has had
her decision not to go overturned, she's actually gone to court,
gone to a tribunal to get that overturned. That's a
lot of work to go through, I speak, quite stressful
for an athlete to it ex even come down to that.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
No, I don't think it should.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
But you've got a criteria right, and you've got you've
got this is what it is, right And I don't
know how to I don't know really how to describe it.
But it's like saying I was driving one hundred and
five and one hundred k k zone. You get a
ticket and you're like, but it was only one k
over you see, you know, like you can't argue, and
they're like, yeah, but we only want people to go
(08:25):
that are at this level and you're outside that level.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
You know, you can't How do you how do you change?
Do we change it?
Speaker 3 (08:32):
And just say as long as you create a world
standard of going to the Olympics, you're more than welcome
to go.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Yes, right, that's how I feel that it.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Should be, because we're not talking we're not talking fifty people,
We're talking three four five.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Right, it can't be that hard.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
What about comparing to other nations when they send people
to games like for the ski jumping for the eagle
edwards back at the Winter Olympics, so not a chance
of doing anything, but taxpayer money and funding going over
there created huge vibrations and waves in the event even
though did nothing. Is it fair for us to compare
(09:13):
ourselves with nations that don't have a hope and hell
of winning, but they're sending athletes anyway?
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Well, I think that's that's this. This is where the
problem is.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
We get onto a sports by sport basis, and you know,
if we're a small sport, you want to grow the sports.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
So you're like, yes, let's see this person.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
But then you've got criteria and and this is this
is always the problem is once you start getting into
rules and criteria, it's very hard to go away from
those because then as you say you've got to you
got to end up in bloody tribunal sports tribunal lord
into court to say, hang on a minute, you know,
like can we can we redo these these these protocols
and these processes, and that's where it lies. But yes,
(09:52):
you can. You can create Eddie the Eagles, you know, Eric,
the equatorial Yeah. Eric, They're all part of it, and
they are the stories.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
And that's the thing with the Olympics.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Right as you have your you have your story about
your winners, you know, and people that tried, and then
you have your Nikki Hamlin's you know, they're falling over
on the track and then they run together to the
finish and they win Olympic Solidarity medals and stuff like this,
and you'd like, those are the stories about what it's about.
Not everybody's going to be at the top level to
be able to compete, Not everybody's going to be at
(10:25):
the top level to have a chance of winning. But
at the same time, you've got so many people there
with dreams and aspirations that have been working towards us,
that have had supporters and people underneath them, the country
behind them.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Aren't those important enough?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
What about bias? Eric Murray around particular sports Are there
sports that probably curry more favor from the Olympic Committee
the other? Are there cool kids? Are there cool sports?
Do they tend towards one more than the other?
Speaker 4 (10:52):
I don't Wow, I don't know, Darcy, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Because obviously we can you can answer that. You can
answer that question by saying, what are the most funded
sports by high performance sport in New Zealand?
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Right? But I and as I say, I don't know.
They're full and and outs of it.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
And where where this high performance Sport New Zealand finish
and New Zealand Olympic Committee takeover?
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Are they?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Do they work closely enough together? Have they got slightly
different things? This is this is where we start to
because that's what you've got to remember, is that the
Olympic Committee is the one that suggests you to go,
whereas in normal and normal circumstances it's a national federation
that then submits it to a high performance sport who
says we're going to send these people over on a
board level.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
In your organization. So, yeah, are there two people?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Are there too many bloody people at the top making
decisions for athletes that are just trying to do their best.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
For more from sports talk, listen live to News Talk
sa'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com