February 24, 2025 • 10 mins
Kentucky Free is a right-center nonprofit working to advance legislation. Today's conversation centers of a bill to reduce the number of nonviolent parents in area prisons. Sarah Durand says Kentucky's economy would bounce forward if the state legislature would pass alternatives to imprisoning parents whose convictions did not involve violence or child abuse.
Kentucky lawmakers in both the house and senate are getting a look at The Family Preservation and Accountability Act.
Sarah described its contents on 840WHAS, saying she is receiving support from both liberals and conservatives.
Kentucky lawmakers in both the house and senate are getting a look at The Family Preservation and Accountability Act.
Sarah described its contents on 840WHAS, saying she is receiving support from both liberals and conservatives.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Sarah Duran is in the studio with me. Hi, Sarah,
it's going to see you again, to see longtime friend
of the family. I was like saying that you have
a new project called Kentucky Free Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
So we've been an organization for twenty months now doing
similar work to what I've been doing since you've met
me fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
But so we are a center right nonprofit. We are
dedicated to advancing free market, fiscally responsible public policies at
the state level. So it's it's actually the Kentucky Forum
for Rights, Economics and Education.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Is your view that government spends money in poor ways?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Whose view isn't that? Yes?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I know some people because right now, you see there
are so many people who are so upset that the
changes are being made. It's like, why can't we step
back and examine things now and again?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Well, I mean we take a very you know, evaluated
approach step to these policy solutions. We don't get the
chainsaw that nobody's giving us the chainsaw, so we have
to take very measured steps.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
What does this mean you go and contact people who
are in office. You're like, do lobbyist type of thing.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I am a registered lobbyist. Yeah, I just we don't
have clients. So essentially what we do we'll write grant
proposals to national organizations say here's what I really want
to do. Here's some policy I really want to pass,
will you fund us doing it. We also have you know,
individual donors that kind of thing. So so we're low
paid lobbyists for good Well.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
That's all right, you have passion about trying to move
the world forward in a better way. Absolutely, Now this
thing are you? You wrote an op ed I saw
was run on Kentucky Lantern Kentucky Lantern dot com. And
this seems to swirl around the concept of people who
(01:59):
find themselves in some kind of trouble and the fact
that some of them were getting locked up and they
shouldn't be sure.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
So we're one of the few conservative organization that works
in the area of criminal justice reform, and we view it.
We basically evaluate criminal justice policy through with three questions.
Is it constitutional, does it enhance public safety? And is
it a responsible use of taxpayer dollars? So we approach
(02:25):
everything from that lens. This particular policy. What this does
is it's aimed at keeping families together. So if you
have committed a lower level crime, nonviolent, non sexual, not
against children, and you are a primary caregiver to your child.
(02:48):
This aims to keep you with your family.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So you're not talking about a carjacker. You're talking about it.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
No, that would be a violent crime. That person would
not be eligible. I've just claric No. So yeah, So
what this does is it it says that if you
fit certain criteria, a judge shall consider. It doesn't take
away judicial discretion. A judge can say you're not a
good candidate for this, but a judge shall consider an
alternative sentencing for you. So maybe therapy, parenting classes, substance
(03:16):
abuse treatment, those kinds of things. Because we have this
opioid We have over eight thousand kids in foster care
and a big part of that is because of our
opioid crisis.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Alison Ball was on here with me a week or
so ago talking about these foster children. There's in office buildings.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
They're sleeping in the element. We have so many kids, Yeah,
in foster care. They're sleeping in the L and N
building some of them, and I think they take them.
They walk them over to the why like twice a
week to shower. I mean removing If we can keep
families intact, we know that it reduces recidivism. So if
you are a parent and you are holding down a
job and you're supporting your child and you make a mistake,
(03:54):
I mean most of this is substance abuse issues and
people who need help, resources treatment. You know, we want
to try to keep your family together. So I do
a lot of work in the childware for a system
as a volunteer. I'm I'm a cost a volunteer, a
quarter pointed special advocate for abuse and neglected children right.
I also did a lot of policy work when I
(04:15):
was in the First Lady's Office for First Lady Bevin
her cause her focus was improving foster care and preventing
child abuse. So I've worked in this space for quite
a while. And the one of the things you have
to look at is kids who age out of foster care.
The statistics on them are absolutely abysmal. Seventy percent of
(04:38):
the girls will be pregnant and ninety percent of the
boys will be arrested by age twenty one. This is
kids who don't get adopted before they turn eighteen, they
age out, they have no one, they don't have.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Families, they're just set free then right.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, yeah, and I think you know, I mean, I
have a twenty year old who still calls me to say,
can you schedule a diend disappointment for me?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Of course, they don't have.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Anything like that, and so the stats for them are
really abysmal. And anything that we can do to try
to keep families together, we know that not only does
it reduce costs. Now, so if this, if the bill
that we have passes, we will save the state seventy
four million dollars a year in direct incarceration costs. That's
(05:20):
just the cost of housing nonviolent parents who are not
a threat to society.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Because it's a drug bust or it's a you know,
something on Alonga's lines where But I always hear people
say that when we have these programs in place for people,
they just don't want to go to them to rehab
or various places to get better. But what is that underfunded?
In your mind?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I would say that it's underfunded because we're spending so
much of our money incarcerating folks. I mean, we have
one of the highest incarceration rates in the country, and
the United States is one of the most developed incarcerated
countries in the world. I mean, when you look at
the amount of money that we are spending two house people,
(06:06):
it's about sixty thousand dollars a year to house someone.
But for every dollar in direct incarceration costs, you're looking
at ten dollars in indirect costs, so society and economic costs.
So for these primary caregivers, the seventy four million dollars
that we would save, it actually could save seven hundred
and forty four million dollars to the state's economy by
(06:29):
implementing alternative sentencing programs for these non violence.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Because you're putting them back in the economy.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
They're still working, they're still supporting their families, so you're
getting the tax revenue. You don't have the lost wages.
You don't have the foster care costs. When kids go
into foster care, they go on to Medicaid, so you've
got those costs. Kids who have incarcerated parents tend to
have lower levels of education. You have to look at
what is their long term lifetime earning potential that's lost.
And if you have one incarcerated parent, you're about forty
(06:56):
percent more likely to end up incarcerated yourself. If you
take a primary caregiver and then you have to go
live somewhere else and that parent is incarcerated, that astronomically,
you know, makes you so much more likely to end
up in the criminal justice system. So this isn't just
about saving money now. It's about keeping families together, and
(07:19):
it's about saving money in criminal justice costs in the future,
making sure that we reduce recidivism. If you are employed
and supporting your family and we give you a second chance,
you are much more like less likely to reoffend.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I would guess a lot of liberals are saying hallelujah
to what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Well, so, yeah, so we work with with anybody who
you know agrees with us on these types of issues.
We are in a coalition on this issue with groups
like the ACLU. You know, groups you maybe wouldn't think
that we would normally get along with. We don't always
get along with, but when we do, we are willing
to work together. And then you know, you also have
(08:03):
non partisan groups like Kentucky Youth Advocates that are behind
this bill, that have done a lot of research showing
the detriment of incarcerating parents, and I think as a conservative,
I think we need to change the way that we
look at criminal justice in public saty. Why are we
locking people up who are in a threat to society?
(08:25):
Why aren't we finding some other Now, if it's repeated offenders,
I understand, if it's violent sexual crimes against children, absolutely,
but why are we locking folks up who most of
the time just need a little extra help? And it's
as a conservative, a lot cheaper, it's the fiscally responsible
(08:45):
path to choose.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Good points made there, Sarah Durand, it's great to see
you again. Good to see The Family Preservation and Accountability
Act is where right now? It's a House bill, right well.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
We have a we have a companion bill in the Senate.
So Senator Julie Rocky Adams has filed in the Senate.
She's actually my senator here in Louisville. And then Nick
Wilson represented Nick Wilson, who's out of southeastern Kentucky, who's
actually his mother was incarcerated. So he's very passionate about
this bill, which I can't really talk about him without
mentioning that he won survivor Oh that guy, that guy,
(09:18):
I know what that is. Yeah, he never talks about it.
I feel like I would start every conversation.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
This is like the fiftieth Survivor that's starting right now.
I want survivor when I want sure ry.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Helpful, helpful for navigating Frankfurt.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
What do you want people to do? Contact their legislator.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Corontack their legislator, ask them for fiscally responsible public safety.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
The Family Preservation and Accountability Act. Sarah Durant, Kentucky Free.
I like both of those words. Thanks, they go together nicely.
Great talking to you, to see all right, we're back
in a few You're on news radio. Wait forty w
you ain't she as
Speaker 2 (10:00):
At
Sarah Duran is in the studio with me. Hi, Sarah,
it's going to see you again, to see longtime friend
of the family. I was like saying that you have
a new project called Kentucky Free Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
So we've been an organization for twenty months now doing
similar work to what I've been doing since you've met
me fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
But so we are a center right nonprofit. We are
dedicated to advancing free market, fiscally responsible public policies at
the state level. So it's it's actually the Kentucky Forum
for Rights, Economics and Education.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Is your view that government spends money in poor ways?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Whose view isn't that? Yes?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I know some people because right now, you see there
are so many people who are so upset that the
changes are being made. It's like, why can't we step
back and examine things now and again?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Well, I mean we take a very you know, evaluated
approach step to these policy solutions. We don't get the
chainsaw that nobody's giving us the chainsaw, so we have
to take very measured steps.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
What does this mean you go and contact people who
are in office. You're like, do lobbyist type of thing.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I am a registered lobbyist. Yeah, I just we don't
have clients. So essentially what we do we'll write grant
proposals to national organizations say here's what I really want
to do. Here's some policy I really want to pass,
will you fund us doing it. We also have you know,
individual donors that kind of thing. So so we're low
paid lobbyists for good Well.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
That's all right, you have passion about trying to move
the world forward in a better way. Absolutely, Now this
thing are you? You wrote an op ed I saw
was run on Kentucky Lantern Kentucky Lantern dot com. And
this seems to swirl around the concept of people who
(01:59):
find themselves in some kind of trouble and the fact
that some of them were getting locked up and they
shouldn't be sure.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
So we're one of the few conservative organization that works
in the area of criminal justice reform, and we view it.
We basically evaluate criminal justice policy through with three questions.
Is it constitutional, does it enhance public safety? And is
it a responsible use of taxpayer dollars? So we approach
(02:25):
everything from that lens. This particular policy. What this does
is it's aimed at keeping families together. So if you
have committed a lower level crime, nonviolent, non sexual, not
against children, and you are a primary caregiver to your child.
(02:48):
This aims to keep you with your family.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So you're not talking about a carjacker. You're talking about it.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
No, that would be a violent crime. That person would
not be eligible. I've just claric No. So yeah, So
what this does is it it says that if you
fit certain criteria, a judge shall consider. It doesn't take
away judicial discretion. A judge can say you're not a
good candidate for this, but a judge shall consider an
alternative sentencing for you. So maybe therapy, parenting classes, substance
(03:16):
abuse treatment, those kinds of things. Because we have this
opioid We have over eight thousand kids in foster care
and a big part of that is because of our
opioid crisis.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Alison Ball was on here with me a week or
so ago talking about these foster children. There's in office buildings.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
They're sleeping in the element. We have so many kids, Yeah,
in foster care. They're sleeping in the L and N
building some of them, and I think they take them.
They walk them over to the why like twice a
week to shower. I mean removing If we can keep
families intact, we know that it reduces recidivism. So if
you are a parent and you are holding down a
job and you're supporting your child and you make a mistake,
(03:54):
I mean most of this is substance abuse issues and
people who need help, resources treatment. You know, we want
to try to keep your family together. So I do
a lot of work in the childware for a system
as a volunteer. I'm I'm a cost a volunteer, a
quarter pointed special advocate for abuse and neglected children right.
I also did a lot of policy work when I
(04:15):
was in the First Lady's Office for First Lady Bevin
her cause her focus was improving foster care and preventing
child abuse. So I've worked in this space for quite
a while. And the one of the things you have
to look at is kids who age out of foster care.
The statistics on them are absolutely abysmal. Seventy percent of
(04:38):
the girls will be pregnant and ninety percent of the
boys will be arrested by age twenty one. This is
kids who don't get adopted before they turn eighteen, they
age out, they have no one, they don't have.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Families, they're just set free then right.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, yeah, and I think you know, I mean, I
have a twenty year old who still calls me to say,
can you schedule a diend disappointment for me?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Of course, they don't have.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Anything like that, and so the stats for them are
really abysmal. And anything that we can do to try
to keep families together, we know that not only does
it reduce costs. Now, so if this, if the bill
that we have passes, we will save the state seventy
four million dollars a year in direct incarceration costs. That's
(05:20):
just the cost of housing nonviolent parents who are not
a threat to society.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Because it's a drug bust or it's a you know,
something on Alonga's lines where But I always hear people
say that when we have these programs in place for people,
they just don't want to go to them to rehab
or various places to get better. But what is that underfunded?
In your mind?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I would say that it's underfunded because we're spending so
much of our money incarcerating folks. I mean, we have
one of the highest incarceration rates in the country, and
the United States is one of the most developed incarcerated
countries in the world. I mean, when you look at
the amount of money that we are spending two house people,
(06:06):
it's about sixty thousand dollars a year to house someone.
But for every dollar in direct incarceration costs, you're looking
at ten dollars in indirect costs, so society and economic costs.
So for these primary caregivers, the seventy four million dollars
that we would save, it actually could save seven hundred
and forty four million dollars to the state's economy by
(06:29):
implementing alternative sentencing programs for these non violence.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Because you're putting them back in the economy.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
They're still working, they're still supporting their families, so you're
getting the tax revenue. You don't have the lost wages.
You don't have the foster care costs. When kids go
into foster care, they go on to Medicaid, so you've
got those costs. Kids who have incarcerated parents tend to
have lower levels of education. You have to look at
what is their long term lifetime earning potential that's lost.
And if you have one incarcerated parent, you're about forty
(06:56):
percent more likely to end up incarcerated yourself. If you
take a primary caregiver and then you have to go
live somewhere else and that parent is incarcerated, that astronomically,
you know, makes you so much more likely to end
up in the criminal justice system. So this isn't just
about saving money now. It's about keeping families together, and
(07:19):
it's about saving money in criminal justice costs in the future,
making sure that we reduce recidivism. If you are employed
and supporting your family and we give you a second chance,
you are much more like less likely to reoffend.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I would guess a lot of liberals are saying hallelujah
to what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Well, so, yeah, so we work with with anybody who
you know agrees with us on these types of issues.
We are in a coalition on this issue with groups
like the ACLU. You know, groups you maybe wouldn't think
that we would normally get along with. We don't always
get along with, but when we do, we are willing
to work together. And then you know, you also have
(08:03):
non partisan groups like Kentucky Youth Advocates that are behind
this bill, that have done a lot of research showing
the detriment of incarcerating parents, and I think as a conservative,
I think we need to change the way that we
look at criminal justice in public saty. Why are we
locking people up who are in a threat to society?
(08:25):
Why aren't we finding some other Now, if it's repeated offenders,
I understand, if it's violent sexual crimes against children, absolutely,
but why are we locking folks up who most of
the time just need a little extra help? And it's
as a conservative, a lot cheaper, it's the fiscally responsible
(08:45):
path to choose.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Good points made there, Sarah Durand, it's great to see
you again. Good to see The Family Preservation and Accountability
Act is where right now? It's a House bill, right well.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
We have a we have a companion bill in the Senate.
So Senator Julie Rocky Adams has filed in the Senate.
She's actually my senator here in Louisville. And then Nick
Wilson represented Nick Wilson, who's out of southeastern Kentucky, who's
actually his mother was incarcerated. So he's very passionate about
this bill, which I can't really talk about him without
mentioning that he won survivor Oh that guy, that guy,
(09:18):
I know what that is. Yeah, he never talks about it.
I feel like I would start every conversation.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
This is like the fiftieth Survivor that's starting right now.
I want survivor when I want sure ry.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Helpful, helpful for navigating Frankfurt.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
What do you want people to do? Contact their legislator.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Corontack their legislator, ask them for fiscally responsible public safety.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
The Family Preservation and Accountability Act. Sarah Durant, Kentucky Free.
I like both of those words. Thanks, they go together nicely.
Great talking to you, to see all right, we're back
in a few You're on news radio. Wait forty w
you ain't she as
Speaker 2 (10:00):
At
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