Jonathan Frederick from Marbles Kids Museum

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
iHeartMedia RALEI presents CEOs You Should Know, where we shine a spotlight on decision
makers from all corners of the Triangle, showcasing the leaders and companies that drive
our local economy. Welcome to theiHeartMedia CEOs You Should Know Podcast. My
name is Michael Berger. I'll beyour host today and I am joined by
Jonathan Frederick, CEO of Marble's KidsMuseum. How are you, sir,

(00:23):
I'm doing really, really well.I'm excited to be here. Thanks man.
You know, it's it's We've hadso many different companies coming and talk
about what they're trying to do,and I don't know if any of them
ares fun is what you've done.We've got some fun companies, some some
deodorant companies on a national level,We've got we've got, you know,
some great local ones. But youknow, we moved here about two and
a half years ago, my familydid, from Saint Louis, Missouri,
and one of the first places wewere like, we got to check this

(00:44):
place out, you know, AndI think that's a test. We've already
had some class field trips there.My wife has volunteered there a couple of
times. We're big fans. Sothe way we kind of lay out this
entire podcast, it will be justas much about you as it is about
Marbles. And the reason is Ithink a lot of people when they listen

(01:06):
to this, they want to knowyour story how did you get here?
As well as here's what's important aboutmarbles? So a lot of things I
want to get to. I westart with five just kind of icebreaker questions.
So the first one, you spenteleven years at the Moorhead Planetarium.
Correct, it was actually a littlebit longer. Okay, I was there.
I could you know time flies?Right? So fifteen years. Fifteen

(01:26):
years the University of North Carolina ChapelHill's Morehead Planetarium and Science Center, which
is the longest title of anything.But that's in an amazing place, really
formative for me to be there forfifteen years. Yeah, okay, So
when I hear planetarium, I thinkof field trips in third grade, back
when I was a kid. Soyour first icebreaker question is what's your favorite
constellation? Ooh, so I wentwhere I jumped in my head because I

(01:49):
you know, this is so funny. You're actually triggering me a little bit
because a little bit of both becauseas a planetarium guy, it's always when
you're around with friends, you're outat night, you're around the campfire,
you're doing whatever, and they startlooking up at the stars and I'm like,
oh no, but you know,the Pleiades jumps out, you know
the Seven Sisters. That cluster ofstars is really fun and O'Ryan, I

(02:10):
mean, can't go wrong with Oryan. That's the one that my children and
I like to pick out. I'mstill thinking about the National Deodoran Company because
as h as the Marbles guy,I gotta tell you, the oder comes
in handy when you're running around withlittle ones all the time. So I
can't wait to listen to that episode. I can't imagine shout out to Karpe
who came in here, National DeodorantCompany getting a recall from a couple episodes

(02:31):
ago. No, I you know, I've got one of those apps now
that when you go out and lookat stars and we're not gonna talk about
stars the entire time, because Idon't do what you think. He clips
is coming up. Don't forget that'strue. Yeah, yeah, we can
do it. Uh, you know, I got that app where you hold
it up and see all of them, and then my wife will be like,
I don't need that. That's thatone and that one, and there's
O'Ryan's belt, and I was like, just tell me, like, you're
way, way smarter than i'll everbe. So it is magical, though

(02:53):
you'd think about that's a light showthat happens every night. This is where
you might tap into my inner sciencenerd because I am a science educator by
training. Every night, what ishappening up in the sky is just mind
blowing. So get out there andlook up. It's incredible. Well,
I just think from a standpoint ofhow far away it is and all the
things that are happening, how willnever truly be able to comprement comprehend how
far things apart. It's tough forme personally, but I have a tiny

(03:14):
brain, so it's tough for meto wrap my head around any of that
stuff. Well, that's one ofthe tough things of the planetarium that I
won't say I'm happy to be awayfrom because I loved working there. But
people would go into the planetarium andlearn about the age of the universe and
they're talking about this scale that's bazillionsyears of years old and where this tiny
infant and then testimal if that's evena word thing, and then they'd come
into like full staff meetings about paperwork, and I just that was a little

(03:37):
jarring to go back and forth thecosmic scale to like turn in your receipts
on time and like, okay,yeah, you go from Orion's Belt to
TBS reports. That's exactly right.Yeah, all right, So next question
number two. As a child,what did you want to be? Oh?
Great, by child, I'm sayingfive to ten, like the Cowboy
stage, well for sure, Imean, I mean it dates me,

(03:57):
but man, I really I don'teven know. I still want to be
Indiana Jones. Like I know there'ssome things with the story, you know,
but that that adventure, those movies. I mean I had the hat,
I wanted the jacket. I reallywanted to be actually an archaeologist or
an anthropologist for a long time towhere like every school dress up day,
I was trying to rock that outfit. Of course, I had, you

(04:18):
know, a strong sports phase.I fancy myself as a little bit of
a point guard. I grew upin the Pennsylvania area, so uh,
if anyone knows Maury's cheeks Don Staleyfrom up there. Yeah, those were
like folks I used to emulate.So between a point guard maybe basketball playing
archaeologist, how's that? Did youever run away from a boulder like Indiana
Jones? Have you ever? Lot? Well, I'll still with my kids,

(04:40):
and they get annoyed with me.If I find them snuggling in bed
on a weekend morning, I liketo pretend something's rolling behind me or exploding,
and I run in slow motion anddive on them in bed and then
act like I'm unconscious. Uh,And then I wake up disoriented and they
tell me that the joke's old.I was held are they? Well,
they're seven and nine spot, butyou got Yeah, I've done it a
few times. Let's say I gota ten year old, and those jokes

(05:02):
are starting to get a little bitof an eye roll. So I know
I've got like six months before it'sover. So all right, question number
three, you win the power balltomorrow, We're gonna say it's five hundred
million dollars. What do you dowith the rest of your life? That's
a great question. So I havethis sort of so I'm I'm a younger

(05:23):
brother, so I'm a contrarian bynature, and I've always had sort of
this this philosophy to not be motivatedby money, and so I've always tried
to like reflexively swat down anything that'sgoing to be a financial choice just based
on finances, which is kind ofa risky thing to admit as a CEO
of a nonprofit. But that's alot of cash. And I think I've

(05:46):
always loved the idea of travel,writing, getting out and about and seeing
the world and writing it from adifferent perspective. I think some of it
goes to charity and supporting causes.I do think. I know the easy
answer is, like I'm buying ayacht and saund around the world. I
think you gotta stay busy, right, I would find probably some humanitarian causes
or other causes and really get involved. I think, how many archaeologists did
you you could pay for? I'mgonna get financy or in Egypt? Yeah,

(06:10):
how did I miss that? Thatwould be amazing? Yeah, yeah,
there you go. But I thinkI travel a little bit, spend
time with family. I fantasize aboutjust going around the world with my kiddos,
and I think supporting some meaningful causesfor sure, that would be great.
Okay, question number four, Andyou can take this whatever direction you
want. You can make this aslengthy or as concise as you like.
You were born and now you're here. What's happened in between? Wait?

(06:33):
Start that again. I'm born,you were born, Now you're here.
What's happened in between? Wow?All right? So my dad was in
the Air Force, so I wasactually born in Germany, but I remember
none of it. So people alwaysask, so, do you speak German?
I'm like, no, I don'teven know. It's on my birth
certificate. That's That's about it.But grew up in Pennsylvania and just had

(06:53):
a wonderful time with my families offfrom there. But then we all sort
of spread out and I didn't wantto stay too close to home to school.
Thought I was thinking about med school. Quickly got into some of those
physiology labs, and I was like, I don't know if med schools for
me. But meanwhile, my parentshad volunteered in museums as I was growing
up, and so I got achance to play in empty museums as they
were working and helping. So Ifell in love with museums. That's always

(07:15):
been in the back of my mind. First job I got was working with
the Florida Aquarium in Tampa, Florida, where I got to scuba dive in
the exhibits, talk to the audiencesfrom inside the exhibits, and there's some
fun stories there. Then I wantedto get more sort of out out there,
so I went to outdoor education,helped to start an environmental education program
just north of Greensboro, shout outto the Hall River program in the North

(07:36):
Carolina State Parks. And then missedkind of being out being actually where I
could get a cup of coffee closeby. So got the job at UNC
and after fifteen years there was readyfor a new Chile, and so I
came to Marble's Kids Museum. ButI've always been in love that whole time
with sort of exploring and learning outsideof the classroom or traditional things. So

(07:58):
that's been a thread throughout my wholelife, out finding those experiences, both
personally but helping to facilitate those forothers and along the way. I mean,
the most important part is have twoamazing children, an amazing partner,
and we have some just fantastic friendsright here in the triangle. That's amazing.
You know, you mentioned, andthis kind of leads into my next
question. I mean, that's that'sfirst of all, that's very very very
concise. You would be amazed atsome of the places people take that answer,

(08:22):
like, well, good, yougot fifty two or fifty three minutes.
I'm gonna want to go many,many, many years ago. So
you mentioned you were you had anolder brother or sister, two older sisters.
Okay, you're a bit of acontrarian. Oh yeah, Okay,
it's funny because I have a twentytwo year old to ten year old,
an eight year old, and afive year old eight year old, with

(08:43):
the twenty two year old having herown place. The eight year old is
kind of the middle child, right, And so when you say contrarian.
Watching the Super Bowl last night,our family comes from Missouri, so we
were cheering for the Chiefs, right. Well, they played the Bills,
and he cheered for the Bills justto be opposite everybody else. Then they
played the Ravens and all of asudden, Lamar Jackson's the best player ever.
He's my favorite player. Then itwas the forty niners. I'm cheer

(09:03):
for the forty nine ers. Likehalfway through the game, yesterday I was
able to say, it's okay ifyou want to cheer for the same team
as we do, and he's like, his compromise was, I'll cheer for
both. And I was like,you know what, it's a step in
the right direction. So when you'resaying contrarian and picking the difference, because
I was like, oh man,that reminds me completely my son. Okay,
So and here this may be themost important question today. How did

(09:26):
you celebrate the Super Bowl last night? Who'd you cheer? Four? Would
you think of the halftime show?Give me your review? I'm so glad
you asked, because my seven yearold. Well, let me go back
to the contrary thing. The onething I've noticed, and it ties into
the CEO concept a little bit isI think where it can serve me well
but also maybe annoying anyone around meis I'm very rarely going to make a

(09:46):
quick decision even if everyone in theroom feels one way. So like I
have a little bit of like whatyou're talking about with your child is like,
if everyone's all in one direction,I'm going to be like, wait
a second, that's a little weird. Let's talk. Let's push on this
a little bit. So I evenlast night it didn't come in with the
football game, but I think watchingthe Super Bowl, I always have a
little bit of like, uh wantto have my own take, so this

(10:09):
is this may be where my contrariannature came in. I watched it on
the Spanish channel because I didn't realizeit was I was like, Oh,
it's on the Spanish channel, I'mgonna watch. It was a blast because
I don't speak Spanish, but it'sa beautiful language, and you could still
like in your head you sort oftranslate when they say like long deep pass
to Travis Kelcey and it's fifty twoyard game. You I didn't hear them
say exactly that, but you pickedup on it to the emotion of the

(10:30):
expression. It was an incredible game. First of all, I've seen a
lot of sports in my day.I wanted to go to bed. I
couldn't tear my eyes away. Itwas just a back and forth battle usher.
I mean, there's a reason whysome performers are pros, right,
and you see like pros who've beenout there performing for a long time coming
out and just nailing it. Ithought the halftime show was great, the

(10:52):
game, I felt bad anyone hadto lose. It was like a heavyweight
battle. Those two teams kept goingback and forth and back and forth.
And then lastly, my seven yearold has become a swift ye And as
we're talking right now, I literallyliterally have Taylor Swift lyrics going through my
head because of how much Taylor SwiftI've listened to over the past six seven

(11:13):
weeks. And the first thing Iwas pleased to tell her when she woke
up because she went to bed beforeit was over how it all played out,
because I thought going into that fourthquarter, I was like, San
Francisco looks like the better team here, but the Chiefs pulled it out.
She was ecstatic. She decided toname her new bike Swifty. So there
you go. Perfect. Just waittill she needs the tickets to the next
concert round and they're starting at tenthousand dollars a piece. Yeah, crashing

(11:37):
websites. She's incredible, But yeah, the just it's amazing when you can
execute a big, complex event likethat. I'm all over the place from
every angle, and then from theleadership perspective, sometimes I think about,
like there was that moment with TravisKelce and the coach, Andy Reid,
where like everyone you know had strongopinions about that, and I always look

(11:58):
at those sort of like these thisdust up right, a really really talented,
passionate employee player has strong opinions.But even when I saw that,
I winced a little bit. Iwas like, man, that we knocked
that guy over yelling. Also,you know the stakes and the scale and
yeah, but the way the coachhandled it even after the game, the
remarks just an incredibly just in agreat example of leadership. I think,

(12:22):
yeah, and I think a lotof times and I want to get to
a little more on that leadership.But I think one of the important parts
is can you put your ego aside? Because the expectation on Andy Reid last
night is you have to be forcefuland say you don't do that to me
and put him in his place.Also, he knows Travis Kelsey's personality way
better than you or me or anybodyelse does, so him to have the
ability and the confidence to go upafter he's like, yeah, we're fine,

(12:43):
that's right. It was a heatedmoment, we're in a battle,
we're all stressed out, We're good. Yeah, that's that's that's impressive to
me. So okay, So acouple questions will transition into we talk exclusively
about Marbles. But so let's sayyou and I bump into each other at
a conference we've never met before.It's the post conference happy hour. What
drink is in your hand? Andhow do you explain to me in sixties

(13:05):
to ninety seconds what Marble's Kid Museumis. If we're still in conference mode.
This is such a boring answer,but I'm probably going with a If
it's not coffee or tea, it'swater, okay, But later on towards
the end of the conference. Itdepends on what I'm presenting, what's going
on, what other business I'm handling. It's all out I maintain. But
you know, I do like acocktail. I do like a beer for
every now and again depends also location. Yeah, if the conference is in

(13:26):
Honolulu, you know I'm gonna gowith a little more festive beverage. So
we'll be But you know, Marble'sKids Museum is one of the leading children's
museums in the country. We seevisitors and families from all fifty states,
all one hundred counties. We getcomic cars that say things like we need
a Marble's Nicaragua. Literally, we'llsee comic cars that say that because families
come through and have a good time. But every day there's hundreds to thousands

(13:50):
of children and their caregivers and peoplewho love them having a blast. So
it's just a packed museum with exhibits, with fun programs and experiences. And
plus we have an Imax theater,so one of the largest screens in North
Carolina right there on our campus whereyou can come see a new movie like
Dune two's coming up. That's thespot to see it. Yeah. Nice,
well, and I think that's good, So I want to touch I'll

(14:11):
circle back just real quick on youmentioned Andy Reid the Super Bowl. Yeah,
leadership to you, what does leadershipmean? It's such a fluid answer.
You can ask me that. Ifyou ask me that in five minutes,
I'll have a different answer than whatI have right now. I firmly
believe in empathy as a leader,Like I'm working in the nonprofit space where

(14:31):
we are really really everyone's mission oriented. But what we're doing to serve children
and families with talented, incredibly talentedpeople. I try to be as empathetic
as possible. I always want toapproach things with a sensitive lens to full
human beings coming to work with usand coming to play with us. But
also you have to be fluid andyou have to sometimes make some timely decisions.

(14:52):
So it's empathy, but with sortof a reminder that we have we
have places to go and things weneed to do in a mission that we
need to meet. I always thinkof leadership philosophy with the there's that I
don't know if you've ever seen it. There's some cartoon where it shows a
h it's like leadership, and itshows the first thing is like a guy
up on a pedestal in the backand he's pointing and all the people in

(15:13):
front are sort of like toiling awayagain out of the front, and they
say that's like sort of the nonideal. And then the other image is
the leader way out front, likeleading the charge, and they're saying that's
the way you should be, andI'm like, sometimes sometimes it's getting out
of people's way, right, andit's letting and letting every the more talented
people who know more lead. SoI'm a big fan again and on people's
way when it comes to leadership,But listening and being empathetic is always going

(15:35):
to be my core, and Ithink it's it's important too, because I
think one of the things you mentionedis how when it comes to leadership it
is it is fluid, and you'llsee so many people who are leadership experts.
And so if you do these threethings, you'll be successful. Without
realizing, every organization, every ecosystemis a little bit different, and and
the fact that that definition of whatleadership is does evolve over time. It's

(15:58):
not one stagnant. For the pastfew years, I've been claiming this,
this, and this. You're like, well, you're probably outdated at this
point, so right or you getthen I mean, this is where my
contrarian thing comes in. You geta thing like Nick Saban, who's going
to run his program the way heruns this program. I'm sticking with a
lot of sports right now. Idon't know, maybe Taylor Swift. I'm
a sportsman, so I love it. But you get someone who has this
sort of thing you're going to fitin or not, and there's ways to

(16:19):
be successful. That's why I thinkI'm a relatively new CEO. I've been
in this role for a year anda half plus. I've been in leadership
for a while, but I'm stillabsorbing like a sponge and really identify mentors
and I just recognize that it's gotto adapt any ball, as you said.
And I think the thing that I'velearned in any kind of leadership role
is every year I realize how littleI do know. And I think a

(16:41):
lot of times in any leadership role, you're expected to know everything, or
at least put on the face thatyou know everything. And you know,
maybe I can just go back toempathizing what people are, listening to people,
but being able to admit, yeah, I'm still learning guys, right,
I don't know one hundred percent.It's like what you said about ego
too, like that idea of checkingyour you go. I do feel a
little bit of like wearing the skinof a CEO has taken a while.

(17:04):
Like I don't know if it's impostersyndrome or whatever, but like there's something
about like I remember one of anearly staff meeting, fifteen people around the
table. It's a leadership meeting,and Marbles says, these folks are on
top of things, and someone askedme a question, and then someone else
said what's the directive? And Iwas like, I don't know, and
the whole room you could see themis kind of be like, oh,
who is this guy? But alsomaybe afterwards some people said it was kind

(17:27):
of refreshing to hear that you know, we're in this together, We're going
to solve this together. But Iliterally if I didn't know, I didn't
know the answer. I just hadto say it, and it hurt my
man. I probably should have hadan answer there, I give by.
I think a lot that stuff alearning process too, So you know when
you come back for the five yearanniversary of this conversation, you'll have a
super sagnet definition of leadership at thatpoint, and forgot everything we talked about.

(17:48):
Yes, exactly right, all right, So here's some things I wanted
to make sure we touch. Basssong cause I know you are a representative
of Marbles. It's a fantastic placeto be talk to me about some of
the upcoming projects, specifically theyard renovation, some of the stuff you guys are
working on. Yeah, So Marblesis we never sit still. We have
a lot of traditions, a lotof exhibits that people love. You come
in and see the around Town exhibitwith the fire truck and the police truck

(18:11):
and the grocery store. In thestage people pretending to be pirates. Parents
and children will get involved. There'slike dramas in every exhibit as there's like
save, help, save this baby, take them to the vet. Wait,
why is the baby going to thevet? Well, because the vet
has a sick dog too. Maybethey can work on bout And kids are
just working going back and forth andwe have a theatrical production. Let's put
on our costumes, and it's justso fun to be in the thick of

(18:33):
it that I think the day today is incredibly exciting. But we don't
want to stagnate, so all thetime our team is refining, tweaking,
looking at how things are running differentprograms, and we've been really fortunate.
In the past year and a halfsince I've been there. We opened Splash,
a new water table exhibit, Worldclass water table exhibit, so you
can and also it's customized to NorthCarolina, so it has North Carolina lighthouses,

(18:56):
it's got boats you can race.That was incredible. That really changed
sort of the back third of themuseum. We freshened up some other exhibits,
and then we've gotten some funding tochange the whole central courtyard. So
right now it's sort of a courtyardand a pass through space. I don't
want to it's it's great. It'sa great spot, but we're going to
soften it up, make it moreof a friendly play space. It's gonna
have places to chill out and relax. Parents canna have some coffee while they're

(19:18):
watching their kids play. There's gonnabe some gritter climbers, there's gonna be
some shade structures, which is gonnabe fantastic in the summers. And it's
just going to be a really nicesort of complement, a more square and
feel like a welcoming area that peoplecan kind of walk through go into the
museum. They don't have to havetickets to use, so they can play
there regardless of any reason they're comingto downtown, or go right up to

(19:38):
the Imax and catch out, catcha new movie. So the courtyard's coming.
It'll open this fall, So we'reworking on that through the summer and
we're really really excited about that,and then we're gonna be renovating some other
exhibits in the in the building aswell and creating some new, new,
super exciting one of the kinds structures. I can't give all that away.
It keep coming the secret secret.And and then you guys have full service

(20:00):
access and tell me a little bitabout school Readiness initiative. Yeah, So
Marbles is passionate about access and inclusion. You know we do. We're a
business, right and we're not.We don't shy away from that. Like
we're an amazing nonprofit. In fact, the number two leading attraction in downtown
Raley, And I'm proud of thatbecause the number one one is the State
Science Museum, which I'm a hugefan of. But that's free, yeah,
right. We charge nine dollars toget in for adults, a little

(20:23):
bit less if you're a little oneand you come in and you can pay
that price. But there's a lotof ways to be able to come for
free. We have a ton ofaccess programs. Some are around working with
nonprofit partners who serve families in thecommunity. We give away thousands of passes
and tickets for families to come andenjoy Marbles and others are some of the
school readiness programs. On Thursday nights, a subset of folks getting ready for

(20:45):
kindergarten can bring their little rising kindergartenerto Marbles. They get a meal,
and they get some kindergarten prep.They get to practice what it's like to
go to preschool in kindergarten with ourincredibly talented learning engagement team. So those
programs are going on all the time. We also are high performers, right,
we always want to do more.So we have a van, a
mobile van that travels to libraries acrossway county and delivers bilingual programming. And

(21:10):
it's all about play. So that'swhat's super cool, is it's it's not
just it's not it's not super agendadriven. It's like this sort of here's
here's here's a provocation, here's something. Let's toss these toys, though,
what do you want to do withit? And then you have young ones,
so you can see how that's likelow stakes, right, opt in,
you get invited to play, youcan have a good time. There's
no wrong answers, no one's comingaround a checkers quiz now, yeah,

(21:34):
yeah, what did you what didyou retain? That's right, that's right.
So all those programs come together tolet us serve you know, I
think half a million visitors come toMarbles each year. We have a goal
of ten percent of those are comingfor free or reduced and we hit that
goal every year, and my hopeis to expand that going forward. Well,
that that leads kind of my lastquestion, what does the evolution of
Marbles? And I know you can'tgo into all the exhibits and all the

(21:56):
special things you guys have planning.Oh I'll tell you, but but you
know you looking at and obviously havinga long term strategy is important to any
leader. Where is Marbles in tenyears? Great question? So we are
at capacity right now. That's theone thing. What I heard sort of
inklings and got some of it throughthe grapevine that Marbles has just packed.
It's packed, it's back and Iwas like, let me check this out

(22:17):
for myself. And sure enough,you know, I'm like a busy Saturday
in February. We're turning people awaybecause we've sold out all of our tickets
and we have to turn people awaywhen families want and need us most.
So the future of Marbles is expandingin a number of ways. First,
we're gearing up to renovate. Wegot some money from the county who's our
landlord. We're looking for other fundingsources to renovate an interior courtyard space and

(22:38):
close that and create a world classexhibit a second floor outdoor play space,
so we're going to bring a playgroundup upstairs of play space, so that'll
give us more capacity inside. We'realso looking at how to get out and
about more through the county and beyondthrough mobile programs. So in ten years
you will see us have a prettyincredible outreach radius that we're serving while we're

(23:00):
able to be serving more people insideand we're nimble and flexible. So ten
years is a long time. Andwhen you look at the life of children
coming to Marbles, that's like twogenerations, right, So so we think
we're going to be well, youknow, I'm biased, but we'll be
the best childrens museum in the country. We already are one of them,
and we lean into that. Andthat's all through access and inclusion and just

(23:23):
the team that we have who reallyis community responsive because selling out is a
high class problem. But I've hadto play Marbles bouncer. Literally, I've
had to be out front the teams, like you go out there and tell
people we're sold out, and youknow what, I'm a terrible bouncer.
I get one, will lip quiverfrom one, and I'm like, we
can sneak them in. Come on, they can come and they can come
in. And the team's like,dude, come on, we have the

(23:45):
capacity for a reason now to befine. Yeah, I saw someone.
They're in the bathroom. So andit's a legitimate thing. We want to
We don't want to harm the experienceas families are coming and it's crowded.
So building out and expanding and leveragingevery bit of space we have really helps
us serve the community. And they'rehungry for more play. People want to
connect outside of busy weeks, outsideof the school day, and that's when

(24:11):
Marbles is there all the time.Tell me the website www or DJ voice
dobbw. I can never do that. Marbles Kids Museum dot org dot org.
Yeah, love it, love it, Jonathan. We appreciate the time.
Here's what I think is interesting inwrapping this all up. As a
child, you want to be IndianaJones and run away from boulders, and

(24:32):
now you're leading Marbles, which isessentially a tiny bowlder. I love that
and I also have this image nowof that big staircase of trying to roll
like a big foam boulder down andletting kids dodge. I always want to
bigulate games, so I think that'swhat we may we might have to do.
We might be onto something though.Brainstorming out of a podcast. I
love it. We appreciate the time. Thank you, sir, Thank you
really appreciate it. CEOs You ShouldKnow is a production of iHeartMedia, Raleigh.

(24:55):
Thanks for listening.