August 5, 2026 • 35 mins
Willie talks with WCPO's Tanya O'Rourke about her story on a gruesome child murder, and the details on how the foster family tried to get away with it.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
By Billy cunning in The Great American Rets. Baseball kicks
off tonight six oh seven. A dramatic win last night,
Red scored two and runs in the eighth having not
one hit. Nonetheless, they won the game. That's what's important.
Back out of tonight and then business special tomorrow. But
you may remember the name Marcus Paiser going back about
twenty years. It was a darling little boy that was
murdered by David Carroll and Liz Carroll, and he began
(00:28):
his journey as a human being in Middletown with terrible circumstances.
Tonight at seven o'clock Channel nine, Tanyo, Roork's going to
do a special on the life and times and the
death of Marcus Faisel. And once again, Tanya, welcome to
the Bill Cunningham Show.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Bill always good to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I have to say it's my co anchor and I
Adrian WHITSTI did this together.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
So not just you'll like give credit to other people
I do. Actually, all right, let's talk about Marcus Faisel.
Let's be from the moment he was born.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yep, Donna Travino's mom killed in a closet.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Tell me who was Marcus Faisel.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
So Marcus Fisele's is three year old little boy when
the public came to know Marcus, and I think in
my brain always has steered this little picture of him
with kind of his hands under his chin.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Just adorable little kid.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
And looking at that picture out you pulled it up,
that's him.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
And anyway, so poor little Marcus, you know, I think
we interviewed Sean Donovan about it and he said, you know,
this kid never had a chance. He was dealt a
bad hand all the way around. He was born to
Donna Travino, who had some issues. He was found wandering
around Middletown like at two in the morning, you know,
blah blah blah as a two year old. So eventually
he gets put in the foster care system. Lizzen David Carroll,
(01:37):
who this is kind of how they made their money.
They took in foster kids, and you get more money
if you take a kid who is special needs autistic.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I don't think he was very verbal, if at all.
So he's three years old.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
He just turned three when he died, which is his
death is marked as today twenty years ago, which is
why we're running this today. By the way, but it
wasn't until August fifteenth that anyone really knew Marcus's name.
August fifteenth of two thousand and six, and that's a
day that Liz Carroll says that she had Marcus and
some other kids in the park. Some of her other
kids passed out because she had some heart problem or something.
(02:10):
Woke up and poof, Marcus has disappeared from Julith's Park
in Anderson Township. They were Claremont County family, but they
wanted into Hamilin County. Probably a mistake and they anyway.
So that's how we got there's a missing kid. That's
how we learned about Marcus, missing adorable little child, and
the community went bonkers.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
They were out.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
There as good the good human beings of our community
went out and droves searching for this kid all over
the community trying to find him. They were getting calls
from all over the nation saying we saw him at
a truck stop in Omaha or whatever.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
And so for about two weeks or so, he's missing,
quote unquote missing.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
In that two weeks, Liz Carroll holds a news conference.
She holds she calls a pre conference to say, this
is what I was wearing that day, and if anyone
saw me or my kids, hopefully this will jog your memory.
And we're all at home, you know, people at home
are like, oh my gosh, this poor Foster.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
He s somewhere Anderson Township.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
He wandered. He was a wanderer. He wandered off in Middletown.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
So maybe he wandered off and he's just hiding in
a bush or something like that. And so she has
the audacity to hold this news conference, and unbeknownst to
us at that time, this kid's been dead for ten days.
And so they played this incredible hoax on a caring community,
like really duped this community into giving a you know what,
and people giving up their precious time to go search
(03:41):
for a child that was never missing. And so what
happened is, so there's dit Liz and then the husband, David.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
He's a swell guy.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
David has left his wife Liz at some point and
took up with this another gem of a human. Her
name is Amy Baker, and she is the ultimately the
hero of this case, but sort of like a dark hero.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
She also was involved in burning his body.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
You know that, right she we're jumping ahead were jump ahead.
So anyhow, so.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Talk about those two weeks. We had the news conference live.
I'm sure you did.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Oh yeah, everyone carried on because it.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Was assumed much like there's darling kids in Westchester that
wonder off and they're found in the lake somewhere. People thought, Marcus,
this little boy, this picture, beautiful little boy is out there.
And day go by, two days go by, three days
go by, and it's like, well, how is it possible?
As foster care mother is sitting on a park bench,
I guess she like fell asleep or passed out. Other
(04:43):
kids were there of her with her, is that correct?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Little kids?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
She had three or four little kids. She was watching
them all on a sunny day in August and you
get three or there, but little Marcus is gone. And
so there was a Remember Russ Jackson, one of my producers,
his dad was a township trustee in Erston Township, and
he said it was hundreds and thousands of people. Damn night,
(05:09):
let's go get him before he jumps in the Ohio River.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Texas equa search came in and remember they got on
horseback and they're like, there were helicopter searching over this kid.
But so to the public, we are all going, oh gosh,
he's missing. Behind the scenes, behind the scenes, Sean Donovan
tells this great story in our special Tonight about chief
Deputy His chief deputy Ham County Sheriff Si Le's was
(05:34):
the sheriff at that time.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
God rest his soul, and that they brought out immediately a.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Canine dog, you know, a police dog, had him sniff
Marcus's clothes. Dog played with the ball because Marcus was
never in that park. So they knew from almost the
beginning that this isn't right. Something's messed up here, and
they're working behind.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
The scenes to try to figure this out, and.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
The problem becomes it's a very tight circle of people
who actually knew the truth. It's Liz and David and
they are never turning on each other. And there's Amy Baker,
their girlfriend, their living girlfriend because he left, took up
with Amy, brought her back to the house and she
was living with them as their girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
So Amy Baker was a dual girlfriend with the three
adults and several foster children. Now, yeah, they were making
thousands of dollars a month as foster care parents right
in Clairemont County. Yeah, and she elected to go to
Julis County in order to Hamila County, Yeah, Hamler County,
Amazon Township, in order to say, you know, why would
a mother take four kids won two or special needs
(06:42):
across the Ohio River well from Clairemont County in Hamlet
County and go that far away? The answer is what
that didn't fit When you talk to Chief Jeopardy Sean Donovan,
my good friend and yours, he said, from the beginning,
it's like something's wrong here in side least. But they
played along, correct.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Of course they had to publicly. They're going, well, we
don't have any witnesses saying they saw four kids. We
only have people saying they saw three kids. But but
they're playing along because what else are they going to
do at this point, They're working behind the scenes. You
know Norma Then, who ultimately represented Amy Baker. We interviewed
him as well, and he was telling he goes, you
know it was it was stupid from the start. They
(07:19):
said they took four kids of the park. They had
three car seats.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Three car seats, yeah, wow, three car seats, and Faiso
had to be in one and the other kids also
had to be in car seats.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Right, and I'm thinking, you're right, like you know, so
they knew, they knew something was wrong, but the problem
was they couldn't get it out of them. They're interviewing
them over and over, they're putting them through interrogations, and
we have some of that audio tube interrogation that we're
putting online.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
But it's.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
You know, and by the way, thanks to Mark to
Culvey and the Claremont County Prosecutor's office, they gave us
the case file, they gave us all kinds of great stuff.
So it was, yeah, it was so duplicitous, it was
so heinous what they did to this little boy. And
really what our special does is, yes, we explain all
the things that we've explained to you now, but then
we get really the heart of the matter is how
(08:06):
they broke this case, how they were able to do it,
because it really it was a gamble. It was a
total gamble. They had absolutely nothing. And had they not
taken that gamble, you know, they say this right now,
Liz and David not in prison, they're probably still foster parents.
We're still searching for Marcus. Twenty years later, we're doing
(08:28):
balloon releases and wondering if he's been you know, he's
living in Honduras now stolen by some.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Family that's taken him somewhere else.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
And so they took a huge gamble and it is
a really gripping tale, true story, true crime about how
they saw this murder. And when I I've watched this thing,
I mean, you can only imagine. We've been working on
this for a couple months, and every time I watch it,
I get goosebumps, thinking Jesus, and we really let them
(08:57):
tell the story. You hear one track of mine out
of our thirty minute show, that's it. The rest of
the time, it's everyone telling the story.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
This one on for days and days. August I remember
school starting what do we do now? And unbeknownst to everyone,
he'd been dead since I imagined August fIF which was twenty
years ago today. Before we get into the fascinating part
of this is the risk that we're taking and the
trials and who turned on who? What was Marcus Feigels
(09:26):
Feisal's life like in the care of David and Les Carroll.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Not great, I mean you can only imagine, not great
as we understand it from like Normobin, who represented Amy Baker.
He told us not all of us made the cut,
by the way, because we could have done this for
an hour.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
We're doing a half hour.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
But he would say that they would wrap their other
kids in the way that they did Marcus, which we've
not revealed quite yet here, but they would do the
same thing to their other kids to show them. Look,
when we do this to Marcus, it's no big deal.
They had done this to him before. They just didn't
do it to.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
The dent that caused his death.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Make him like a mummy.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, so do you want me to say?
Speaker 3 (10:04):
So? What they did is they wrapped him in a
blanket with his arms at his sides. I don't know
if it's a blanket a carpet. It's different stories on that.
And then they put packing tape around that. So they
made him like a burrito with his head sticking out.
They put him in his pack and play. I remember,
this is a three year old child brand he just
turned three, like in June at autistic nonverbal acts out, Okay,
(10:25):
got it.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Put him in a pack and play.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Put the pack and play in the closet upstairs, put
a fan on him, a box van, shut the door.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
It's August.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
And then they leave for two days to go to
a family reunion. That's what they wanted to do. They
want They had no interest in taking this kid who
acts up to this family reunion in Kentucky because they
wanted to have a good time. And as Sean Donovan
says in this they took the dog. They took their dog.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
They can't leave a dog, can't leave the dog. They
love the dog, loved the dog, didn't love Marcus. He
was some money. And the other kids that were there,
did they treat those other foster care kids? Says they
treated Marcus.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
You know, I don't really know for sure, but a
couple of them were their natural born children. I have
heard through the grape vine of people who you know,
taught them high school and that type of stuff, because
they would be in their twenties now too, that they
were pretty okay kids. You know. So they weren't ultimately
raised by their parents because their parents are in the pokey,
but I, you know, I had they had to have
(11:30):
been treated better than Marcus. They weren't troublesome to them.
I can only guess at what their lives are like.
But you know, what kind of a chaotic household are
you living in where your mom and dad have a
girlfriend living with you, and you've got all these you know,
I think it's wonderful. We need great foster parents, but
you've got, you know, kids coming in, and some of.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Them are being mistreated.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
At least one was we know that for sure to
mistreated to the point that they killed him.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Before we get to the trial and all that stuff
and how the thing broke. They were being paid to
look after Marcus Feisel and others. What evidence was there
that they used this shall we say is a money maker?
Not because they truly and foster parents are special. Big
levies up this as fall in which they need a
(12:19):
big increase service almost double the money I had Denise
Treehouse on the other day. There's at least thirteen thousand
Marcus Feisles children in foster.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Care, and a lot of them need special care.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
A lot of them are special needs kids. Yeah. And
for the parents that would take that on and say,
you know.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Those are angels, right, those are people that we can't
live without, and we're so grateful to all of you.
It is the investigators who told us that they were
using this as this is the way they earned an income.
So they would take kids that and I think they
took Marcus because they offered more money for Marcus.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Marcus needed extra care.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
So and by the way, this is a side fact
about right before she came out and said, I passed
out in the park, right, So that's August. What happened
was Marcus is dead, right, the foster care people who
check in on him come by the house and they say, hey, Okay,
(13:19):
this kid's looking good, this kid's looking good.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Where's Marcus? And I hate to use this term, but
here we go.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
The balls on Liz, the audacity, the absolute nerve she had,
and she made up this story like, well, you know,
he's had been sick all week. I mean, can you
imagine what you would do if you know this kid
is dead at your hands and someone comes to checking
on them, and you have the fortitude to say, he's
upstairs sleeping, he's been sick all week. Can we not
(13:47):
bother him? And so the person was like, yeah, sure,
we'll let that ride. We'll see you in a couple
of weeks. And they know she's coming back in two weeks,
so now they got to come up with a story.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
So this was the triggering moment.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
That's the moment that he's already gone. He's dead, he's
an angel. At this point, they got to figure out
what to do. And their original plan was to take
him to king I say taken quotes. They were going
to say he wandered away at King's Island and someone
must have grabbed him out of King's Island.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Was original, that's the original plan.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
And so you can see how that would be really
good because the park disperses and it's a huge footprint,
and people are going all over. They're heading up seventy
one's heading down seventy one. They're gone, and so now
you've got like a real issue. The problem they had
with King's Island apparently was that there are cameras, right,
so they picked a place that didn't have cameras. Where
(14:40):
is that it's a park? Why did they wander into
Hamilton County?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Now, many of these people that are involved in the
investigation feel like them wandering into Hamilin County became a
problem for them because you had Sile's who was a bulldog.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
He was not going to let this thing rest.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
You had a law and order shriff, law and order
prosecutor that there wasn't that going on in Claremont County,
but Hamlin County is a much more staffed organization, and
they are county and it has more money to throw
at this, and they are not going to let that
dog with a bone go never.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Before we get to the trial and this thing is
fascinating how it worked out. Sean Donovan was the chief
jeopardy sized the sheriff. Yeah, am I right to say?
From the first instance of a call from Julif's Park
in Erson Township and went from a suspicion to a belief.
So there sniffer told them that something's not right here.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Something's not right.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
They would go to the house. The house had holes
in the wall. So they're like, well, that's not normal.
I mean, if you have holes in your wall, like
someone's punched it or kicked it, that is not a
normal thing.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
FYI.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
So there's a household with a lot of kids, foster
kids in them, there are holes in the wall, and
they're like hmm. Mark Petemeyer, who was the chief assistant
prosecutor for him in the county, we interviewed, gosh, is
he a great storyteller?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Oh, my gosh, And.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
He says, you know, we were immediately thinking he lost control.
You know, he's he admitted he had a temper, David
Carroll did. We figured he murdered the kid. He didn't
mean to, but he lost control. He shook him, he
hit him, he did something. So that's the theory from
the beginning pretty much that they're running on, is that
David murdered this.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Kidching holes in walls. Man to punch a hole in
the wall through a plasterboard.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
But he admitted that he had done that.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
He would tell them, yeah, I have a temper and
sometimes I kind of lose it. I hit the wall
instead of a kid, for example. So that's why they're
going on that theory. That's their theory from the start
pretty much is that David doesn't look great. David takes
a light detector test. You know, do you remember this vaguely? Okay,
so if you recall, Liz Carol has the unbelievable audacity
(16:53):
to go and hold a news conference in which she
basically says, the police aren't doing enough to find my
beautiful boy.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I'm blaming the stay right there. That takes short break.
We got that coming up, then we got the trial itself,
and now this whole thing unraveled coming up. Tanyo ROC
Channel nine, seven o'clock tonight, Let's continue with more. Bill Cunningham,
News Radio seven hundred WLW. All right, Billy Cunningham, Let's
continue a Tanyo A Rourke in the studio, a big
(17:19):
special tonight, seven o'clock, Channel nine. Let's pick up the story.
Tell the American people, Tanya, how it broke.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Okay, So what we're talking about is the death of
Marcus Faisel and Lizzen David Carroll, her foster parents, his
foster parents who ultimately caused his death and are paying
the price for it. Now, you know this was a
if you remember Marcus folks who just started driving around
you just turn your car. He was this little kid
durable went allegedly missing, but really what his foster parents
(17:49):
had done was they killed him. And the problem was
for police anyway and the Sheriff's department, Haim Kuint of
Shriff's apartment, was they didn't have anything to go on.
All they had was the mom and dad and then
their girlfriend, their living girlfriend, Amy Baker, and all three
of them are just saying the same story over and
over and over.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
And over and over.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
No one's breaking.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
At this point, no one is breaking. We are now
like three weeks into this situation. You've got half a
Cincinnati out looking for this kid all the time, and
he's obviously nowhere to be found.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
But we didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
They know that David Carroll has a temper. He's been
putting holes in the wall of their house. And so
they eventually turned to Mark Pete Meyer and Joe Dieters,
who are the Hampton County Assistant prosecutor and prosecutor at
the time, and they're like, we don't have any We're stuck.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
We don't know what to do. We don't know what
to do, and.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
So I guess Joe says, hey, when's the last time
I saw that anyone saw this kid? Like, when's the
last time I don't know? You know, did they go anywhere? Yeah,
they went on a family get together gathering down in Kentucky.
When was that August fourth? And he's like, did anyone
go and check to see if Marcus was there? And
they're like nope, he because, well go do that. So
(19:07):
they go down there and they go come back and
they're like, Marcus wasn't there. Never showed up, the dog
was there, Marcus wasn't there.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
So the witnesses of the family get together said when
Marcus wasn't here, but the dog was there. So that
began the grand jury process. Explain what Joe Dieters Mark
Petemyer did in the grand jury.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Okay, and I just have to say, so this is
at seven o'clock tonight, and to hear these guys tell
this story is utterly gripping.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I'm going to summarize it.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
They issue fourthwith subpoenas, would you like to explain what
that is?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
We turn onth is.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Immediately come to the grand jury. In other words, says listen,
we'll see you a week from Tuesday. Now, fourthwith means
bring your body to the grand jury.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Fourthwith now you have to remember Liz Carroll, the foster mom,
is really.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Thinks that everyone thinks this kid's missing.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
They've really come up with great story and no one's
been able.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
To poke holes in it.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
So she's kind of like, h whatever, she doesn't ask for,
they pick her up, They pick up a baby bait her.
They can't find David Carroll. She's They offer her an attorney.
Liz like, I don't need an attorney. I'm good, I'm good.
You know Mark Pete Meyer, by the way, is it
one of the most fantastic attorneys in this town. And
what he he is such a such a great prosecutor.
(20:17):
You know, him in front of a jury is just incredible.
So he's like, all right, you need an attorney.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Fine.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
They get Amy Baker an attorney. His name's Norm Albin,
great guy.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
I know. Is Norm's still with us? I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Oh, I interviewed him for this right.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Norm did a lot of pro bono death penalty case.
Is good lawyer.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
He's a good lawyer, Norm Avin.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
And so they bring in Norm and they're talking to Amy,
and Amy's still telling the same story. Oh, you went
to the They went to the park and Liz passed
out and when they woke up, Mark's is gone. And
so I guess Joe leans it. And again you have
to see him say this stuff. Is He's like, listen,
you don't know me, but if you don't start telling
us the truth, you're going to prison today right now.
(21:01):
And so Norm's like, well, hold on, let me talk
to my client. And I'm sure they had said something
along the lines of like if you if you help us,
we'll make sure you're okay, we'll help you out. So
they think it's going to be like a five minute conversation.
An hour or so later, Normalbin walks out of this
meeting room with Amy and they said he's white as
(21:22):
a ghost. And they're like, you know all the bloods
drained from him. And he's like, you won't believe what
she had to say. And I believe her. She's telling
the truth, but I need protection for her.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Now.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
This is still to this day controversial. They say, great
if Amy tells us the truth and she did not
hurt that child was alive while he was alive, because
she is not a foster parent, she's just the girlfriend.
She's just hanging out.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
She's in with the other two.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
She's in thropple with Lizzen David.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
And so as long as she did not hurt this child,
we'll give her immunity on this case.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Texas El Paso get out of jail free card.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
That's correct.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
And to this day people will still say rightly wrongly,
I don't know, why.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Did you do that? Why would you do that?
Speaker 3 (22:10):
And so she they put it in front of they
hear her story, they put her in front of the
grand jury.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
She tells her story to the grand jury.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Joe described it as this grand jury solving because you
imagine this was a grand jury that just got sat
today like they have just been sworn in, told what
they're supposed to do, and they say to them, we're
not going to present a case to you. We're going
to we're gonna have We're going to try to solve
a case.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
So they how rare is that?
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Okay, you don't solve the case from the grand jury?
You indict the case are wrapped up in a ribbon
and it's simply indict. You don't solve the case. Only
in television do you solve the case in front of
the grand jury?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Right, this is so made for TV, right, made for TV.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Movie. And so Mark Pete Meyer tells them like, we're
going to try to solve this case in front of you. Now,
mind you, this grand jury has been following this case,
right right, they're probably like, you know, So she tells
the story of what happens to this poor little kid.
What happened you don't know? Yes, okay, So they want
to go to a family reunion in Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Marcus is a handful. Marcus is not.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
He's autistic, he's got he acts out whatever. So instead
of taking him, they wrap him up in a blanket,
wrap packing tape around him, all sticking outs his head.
They put him in a pack and play. They put
him in a closet with a box van on him,
shut the door. It's August, and they leave.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
For two days.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
For two days.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
They take the dog, take the other kids. They go
party for two days with the family with them. I mean,
who knows in Kentucky. Come back stiff as a board,
not alive.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
It's awful.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
And now at that point, Bill Cunningham, you have you
come home. You've done something that you shouldn't have done.
And by the way, apparently they've done it before to him,
and they condition the other kids to understand that, oh
it's okay to wrap you up like this. But you
come home and this you see, this kid is dead.
What is your first reaction going to be as a
(24:06):
normal human being.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Well, number one, I haven't killed the child.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Okay too, it's an accident. It's an accident.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
You're calling nine one one, you're telling police. We made
a horrible mistake. We didn't mean for this to happen.
Blah blah blah. Not Liz and David Carroll. They hatch
a plan to get rid of his body, and apparently
Amy knows of a you know, a house that is
burned down in Brown County, and so all this left
is the chimney.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
So they take his body out to that chimney and.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
They multiple times try to burn him up, just to
just incinerate this body in.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
The middle of nowhere, Brown County, fifty miles away. He's
already dead dead.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
They do it best they can, but they just couldn't
get the job fully done. By the way, all that
was left in that chimney were like you know, those
baby gap overall clips that was left in there. There
were some bone fragments we have of Dell Owens, who
was the corner at the time, talking about how they
had eighteen bones that could fit in the palm of
his hand.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
That's a little kid.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Then they take his body, what's left of it, and
they throw it in the Ohio River. So if you
think about that, if those three people stay mute, we're
still searching for Marcus today. Tough case, because how you
ever going to prove that your mind will not allow
you to think that that could happen.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
It'd be a prosecutor call your first witness. Unless Amy flipped,
there wasn't a first witness to call. Who do you call?
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Who are you calling? They're all telling the same story.
We were in a park, he went missing. We don't
know where he is. We're devastated. We love our little Marcus,
we want him back.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Let's go back to the grand jury at this point,
Amy Baker, but norm Albin, she's going to get immunity
if she tell us the truth and did not injure
Marcus while he was alive. What happened then with Liz.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
So Liz goes into the grand jury and she has
no idea that Amy Baker has just sung this song
in front of the grand jury, and she says to
According to Mark Petemeyer and Joe, they she's telling the
same story.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
You know, I was in the park, blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
And then Mark go's hunh, well, okay, So isn't it
true though, that you wrapped him up, did all this stuff,
put him in a closet and left for the weekend.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Oh oh oh.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Lizzie's look on her face has got to.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Be I mean Mark Mark replicates the look on her
face in this special we're doing tonight at seven o'clock.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
It's unbelievable. And she's caught. She's absolutely caught in.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Front of a grand jury. Swore on a bible that
she would tell the truth. So now she's got perjury
on her right. That's the least of her worries. That's
the least of her worries. And she says she then
she sings the song.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
So she also in the grand jury flipped because of
Amy Baker's She was caught, she was dead to right.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
She had something like Amy Baker told the whole story,
and she told the truth. And so how when you're
faced with the truth after thinking and she has no attorney,
Liz Carroll doesn't because she's like, I don't need an attorney.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I'm good. I've been I've been pulling the wad of
these people's eyes. I'm smarter than these idiots.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Mark, Pete Myra and Joe Dieters, side LEAs and Sean Donovan.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, I'm smarter.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I'm smarter than those guys.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, they don't know what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
They think that this kid went missing too, and so
they nailed her. They nailed her in that grand jury,
and they saw, guys, it is so unusual. Mark Mark was,
I don't prosecutor down there for forty years, chief assistant
prosecutor for forty plus years. He's like, that's the first
time that has ever happened.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
How rare of that is.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
And the thing is and norm Auben said this that
they really stated, like their political lives to take this gamble.
They didn't have to do any of that. They could
have just let the investigators keep investigating this. You know,
they didn't have many more leads, so they came to
Mark and Joe, but they could have, you know, they
(28:05):
could have just said, nah, you guys, let us know
when you got something and we'll take it from there.
They went and freaking figured this thing out. I mean,
they did the things.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
That you see happen on Law and Order. It's it's
kind of great, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So at this point, she sings like a canary. Still,
David Carroll is out there somewhere yep down the road, Lisz.
Carroll goes to trial as convicted of everything. What about
David Carroll? Did he ever?
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Did he ever? He never went to trial? You know,
this is a great guy. I'm not supposed to give
my opinion, you know, I'm not supposed to have an opinion.
This is a terrible guy. He saw his wife. She
went to trial because again she thinks she can beat
this rap. She goes to trial, she gets absolutely nailed
to the cross on this. She's not I mean, it
would be a I can't. I don't think she's up
(28:54):
for parole for another twenty five years, and she's already
been in there twenty years.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
So he goes, I'll take a plea.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
David Carroll, Yeah, likely the prime instigator, the man, the
violent man who brings Amy Baker into his marriage relationship,
the one driving the bus says, you know what, Liz,
you go first.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
She gets, hey, honey, why don't we see what happens
to you first?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Before I decided to put my life.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
She's up for sixty five years and she'll never make that.
And then David Carroll, the husband did what.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
So he took a plea for murder. He got fifteen
the life.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
He's already been up for parole ones it was about
four or five years ago, and it got denied. In
the meantime, we show pictures of what they look like
now he is an absolute skinhead, tats all the way
up his neck, teardrop tattoos on his face. As I
understand it, he's joined the Aryan Brotherhood in prison. So
(29:50):
he's making a great name for himself in there too.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
You know, he may not get out, nor should he.
What about Amy Baker? Amy Baker, Amy Baker?
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Do you think she should have gone? Should she observed
time for this?
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Well, it depends could you make the case elsewhere? And
if she was the key to making the case and
she didn't injure the child. Of course Wally was alive,
but she was the one that picked the side the
chimney in Brown County to cremate the That's terrible except
for that, except for Amy Baker, there would have been
no conviction of Lizen David.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
That was That's the argument. The argument by the prosecutor's
office was without Amy, what are we doing here?
Speaker 1 (30:26):
What's Amy doing these days? I imagine, Well, she's.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Out, she's out there.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
I think she still lives in Clairemont County. Okay, here's
my appeal to anyone listening. If you know Amy Baker,
I think she's now Amy Vaughan. If you know her
and she'll let me talk to her. I would love
to talk to Amy Baker.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
We have tried.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
We have like Lexus next as we have all these
search engines that can find stuff, how to find her,
can't find her, can't.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Find a good number four.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
I know that the last conviction she had, she's been
in and out of the prison system for her adult life.
I think it was twenty twenty two. She was convicted
in Claremont County on some drug charges. She's served at
a halfway home and I that's that's the last known
instance of Amy Baker von What is the legacy of
(31:10):
Marcus Faisal at this point?
Speaker 1 (31:12):
What has changed so these things are less likely to
happen in the future.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Well, there was a company called LifeWay for Youth who
placed Marcus with the Carols, And their argument at the
time was they checked out. They said they loved kids.
They you know, what were we not to do with them?
And again my heart breaks for any foster child and
the parents who people who take foster kids in God
love your souls, thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
The foster care system changed.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
They passed a I think it was Michael Fox passed
it in Ohio where you know the constraints on foster
parents are greater. The check ins are more specific and
more thorough. You can't just go in and say can
I see Marcus and they go, oh, he's not feeling well,
he's upstairs.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yeah, he's upstairs.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Well can you check back in a couple of weeks
doesn't happen anymore. So it If Marcus's legacy is anything,
I think that it's that it helped change the foster
system for the better.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
And we get into that online.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Our story tonight at seven o'clock is really looking at
what happened to Marcus and how they cracked this case.
It really is like a true crime like Netflix show
and the other thing I would say. I mean, I
think about this as a la person. You know, the
community at the time really put their arms around this
kid they never met, and this these foster parents that
(32:31):
they thought were doing good jobs and they were duped.
And I think that they probably walked when they heard
that Marcus was really what really happened to Marcus?
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I'm sure. I mean, I can speak.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
I've gotten messages from people since we started running the
promos going.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
I went and looked for him. I cried when I
heard of course you did.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Joe describes when he held the press conference and say,
we've just didn't We've just this is what happened to Marcus,
and we just charged them with manslaughter because that's the
first thing they could charge them with.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
That.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
The reporters were crying in the room because all of
us were invested in this little kid. So is there
something in that. Cincinnati's a great place filled with good,
big hearted people. And I hope what his legacy isn't
is that that made us more jaded. I hope that's
not the case, because that could definitely happen.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
There's two kids in Butler County that were missing, a
little cute little kid, African American boy that wandered away,
and whatever happened in this case, which was awful from
Marcus Feisel, the community came out one hundred percent to
try to find that kid before he jumped into a
laninguer upon.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, I think I kid at autism too.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
There's something to do with this. And Marcus Feisel's life
was miserable from the time he was born in Middletown
to the time he was murdered by himself.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
And Clairemont County, like in a mummy. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Can you imagine what that child went through with that
child who can't speak, wrapped up with your arms at
your side, but he died.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Eat it.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
What a horrible way to die, all alone in a closet.
The little boys just it breaks your heart. And I
I'm not We did this story. We did this half
hour on this because we want to remember Marcus, and
we want to remember how this community came out, and
we want you to know what happened behind the scenes
to make sure that the people who did this serve
(34:23):
the time that they deserve.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Every day. Yeah, when Marcus comes out of his chimney,
that's when these two should come out of prison, and
that one doesn't happen, the other doesn't happen, and they
should spend every moment of their life locked into a
jail cell and at the end they should be wrapped
in a blanket with duct tape and left to die.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
You know. Liz continues to say that it wasn't her
that did this. Liz has said now.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Since who did it? David?
Speaker 3 (34:47):
She says that Amy and her husband wanted to have sex,
so they wrapped him up like that, put him in
a closet. So they wouldn't be disturbed by him that
she was out shopping or something.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
She used herself as an innocent party. Right, He's the one,
and tonight you have. You showed me the opening of
tonight seven o'clock channel nine. Well, Tan, your work. This
is the highest kind of journalism you can do. Congratulations.
I think I'll watch tonight about seven o'clock. The legacy
of Marcus Faisel. Maybe is a better system for other
kids like Yeah, for sure, tanyr work. Thank you all right,
(35:17):
Thanks Bill. Let's continue news next at your home of
the Red's News Radio seven hundred WLW.
By Billy cunning in The Great American Rets. Baseball kicks
off tonight six oh seven. A dramatic win last night,
Red scored two and runs in the eighth having not
one hit. Nonetheless, they won the game. That's what's important.
Back out of tonight and then business special tomorrow. But
you may remember the name Marcus Paiser going back about
twenty years. It was a darling little boy that was
murdered by David Carroll and Liz Carroll, and he began
(00:28):
his journey as a human being in Middletown with terrible circumstances.
Tonight at seven o'clock Channel nine, Tanyo, Roork's going to
do a special on the life and times and the
death of Marcus Faisel. And once again, Tanya, welcome to
the Bill Cunningham Show.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Bill always good to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I have to say it's my co anchor and I
Adrian WHITSTI did this together.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
So not just you'll like give credit to other people
I do. Actually, all right, let's talk about Marcus Faisel.
Let's be from the moment he was born.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yep, Donna Travino's mom killed in a closet.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Tell me who was Marcus Faisel.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
So Marcus Fisele's is three year old little boy when
the public came to know Marcus, and I think in
my brain always has steered this little picture of him
with kind of his hands under his chin.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Just adorable little kid.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
And looking at that picture out you pulled it up,
that's him.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
And anyway, so poor little Marcus, you know, I think
we interviewed Sean Donovan about it and he said, you know,
this kid never had a chance. He was dealt a
bad hand all the way around. He was born to
Donna Travino, who had some issues. He was found wandering
around Middletown like at two in the morning, you know,
blah blah blah as a two year old. So eventually
he gets put in the foster care system. Lizzen David Carroll,
(01:37):
who this is kind of how they made their money.
They took in foster kids, and you get more money
if you take a kid who is special needs autistic.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I don't think he was very verbal, if at all.
So he's three years old.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
He just turned three when he died, which is his
death is marked as today twenty years ago, which is
why we're running this today. By the way, but it
wasn't until August fifteenth that anyone really knew Marcus's name.
August fifteenth of two thousand and six, and that's a
day that Liz Carroll says that she had Marcus and
some other kids in the park. Some of her other
kids passed out because she had some heart problem or something.
(02:10):
Woke up and poof, Marcus has disappeared from Julith's Park
in Anderson Township. They were Claremont County family, but they
wanted into Hamilin County. Probably a mistake and they anyway.
So that's how we got there's a missing kid. That's
how we learned about Marcus, missing adorable little child, and
the community went bonkers.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
They were out.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
There as good the good human beings of our community
went out and droves searching for this kid all over
the community trying to find him. They were getting calls
from all over the nation saying we saw him at
a truck stop in Omaha or whatever.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
And so for about two weeks or so, he's missing,
quote unquote missing.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
In that two weeks, Liz Carroll holds a news conference.
She holds she calls a pre conference to say, this
is what I was wearing that day, and if anyone
saw me or my kids, hopefully this will jog your memory.
And we're all at home, you know, people at home
are like, oh my gosh, this poor Foster.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
He s somewhere Anderson Township.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
He wandered. He was a wanderer. He wandered off in Middletown.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
So maybe he wandered off and he's just hiding in
a bush or something like that. And so she has
the audacity to hold this news conference, and unbeknownst to
us at that time, this kid's been dead for ten days.
And so they played this incredible hoax on a caring community,
like really duped this community into giving a you know what,
and people giving up their precious time to go search
(03:41):
for a child that was never missing. And so what
happened is, so there's dit Liz and then the husband, David.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
He's a swell guy.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
David has left his wife Liz at some point and
took up with this another gem of a human. Her
name is Amy Baker, and she is the ultimately the
hero of this case, but sort of like a dark hero.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
She also was involved in burning his body.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
You know that, right she we're jumping ahead were jump ahead.
So anyhow, so.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Talk about those two weeks. We had the news conference live.
I'm sure you did.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Oh yeah, everyone carried on because it.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Was assumed much like there's darling kids in Westchester that
wonder off and they're found in the lake somewhere. People thought, Marcus,
this little boy, this picture, beautiful little boy is out there.
And day go by, two days go by, three days
go by, and it's like, well, how is it possible?
As foster care mother is sitting on a park bench,
I guess she like fell asleep or passed out. Other
(04:43):
kids were there of her with her, is that correct?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Little kids?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
She had three or four little kids. She was watching
them all on a sunny day in August and you
get three or there, but little Marcus is gone. And
so there was a Remember Russ Jackson, one of my producers,
his dad was a township trustee in Erston Township, and
he said it was hundreds and thousands of people. Damn night,
(05:09):
let's go get him before he jumps in the Ohio River.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Texas equa search came in and remember they got on
horseback and they're like, there were helicopter searching over this kid.
But so to the public, we are all going, oh gosh,
he's missing. Behind the scenes, behind the scenes, Sean Donovan
tells this great story in our special Tonight about chief
Deputy His chief deputy Ham County Sheriff Si Le's was
(05:34):
the sheriff at that time.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
God rest his soul, and that they brought out immediately a.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Canine dog, you know, a police dog, had him sniff
Marcus's clothes. Dog played with the ball because Marcus was
never in that park. So they knew from almost the
beginning that this isn't right. Something's messed up here, and
they're working behind.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
The scenes to try to figure this out, and.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
The problem becomes it's a very tight circle of people
who actually knew the truth. It's Liz and David and
they are never turning on each other. And there's Amy Baker,
their girlfriend, their living girlfriend because he left, took up
with Amy, brought her back to the house and she
was living with them as their girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
So Amy Baker was a dual girlfriend with the three
adults and several foster children. Now, yeah, they were making
thousands of dollars a month as foster care parents right
in Clairemont County. Yeah, and she elected to go to
Julis County in order to Hamila County, Yeah, Hamler County,
Amazon Township, in order to say, you know, why would
a mother take four kids won two or special needs
(06:42):
across the Ohio River well from Clairemont County in Hamlet
County and go that far away? The answer is what
that didn't fit When you talk to Chief Jeopardy Sean Donovan,
my good friend and yours, he said, from the beginning,
it's like something's wrong here in side least. But they
played along, correct.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Of course they had to publicly. They're going, well, we
don't have any witnesses saying they saw four kids. We
only have people saying they saw three kids. But but
they're playing along because what else are they going to
do at this point, They're working behind the scenes. You
know Norma Then, who ultimately represented Amy Baker. We interviewed
him as well, and he was telling he goes, you
know it was it was stupid from the start. They
(07:19):
said they took four kids of the park. They had
three car seats.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Three car seats, yeah, wow, three car seats, and Faiso
had to be in one and the other kids also
had to be in car seats.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Right, and I'm thinking, you're right, like you know, so
they knew, they knew something was wrong, but the problem
was they couldn't get it out of them. They're interviewing
them over and over, they're putting them through interrogations, and
we have some of that audio tube interrogation that we're
putting online.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
But it's.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
You know, and by the way, thanks to Mark to
Culvey and the Claremont County Prosecutor's office, they gave us
the case file, they gave us all kinds of great stuff.
So it was, yeah, it was so duplicitous, it was
so heinous what they did to this little boy. And
really what our special does is, yes, we explain all
the things that we've explained to you now, but then
we get really the heart of the matter is how
(08:06):
they broke this case, how they were able to do it,
because it really it was a gamble. It was a
total gamble. They had absolutely nothing. And had they not
taken that gamble, you know, they say this right now,
Liz and David not in prison, they're probably still foster parents.
We're still searching for Marcus. Twenty years later, we're doing
(08:28):
balloon releases and wondering if he's been you know, he's
living in Honduras now stolen by some.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Family that's taken him somewhere else.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
And so they took a huge gamble and it is
a really gripping tale, true story, true crime about how
they saw this murder. And when I I've watched this thing,
I mean, you can only imagine. We've been working on
this for a couple months, and every time I watch it,
I get goosebumps, thinking Jesus, and we really let them
(08:57):
tell the story. You hear one track of mine out
of our thirty minute show, that's it. The rest of
the time, it's everyone telling the story.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
This one on for days and days. August I remember
school starting what do we do now? And unbeknownst to everyone,
he'd been dead since I imagined August fIF which was twenty
years ago today. Before we get into the fascinating part
of this is the risk that we're taking and the
trials and who turned on who? What was Marcus Feigels
(09:26):
Feisal's life like in the care of David and Les Carroll.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Not great, I mean you can only imagine, not great
as we understand it from like Normobin, who represented Amy Baker.
He told us not all of us made the cut,
by the way, because we could have done this for
an hour.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
We're doing a half hour.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
But he would say that they would wrap their other
kids in the way that they did Marcus, which we've
not revealed quite yet here, but they would do the
same thing to their other kids to show them. Look,
when we do this to Marcus, it's no big deal.
They had done this to him before. They just didn't
do it to.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
The dent that caused his death.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Make him like a mummy.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, so do you want me to say?
Speaker 3 (10:04):
So? What they did is they wrapped him in a
blanket with his arms at his sides. I don't know
if it's a blanket a carpet. It's different stories on that.
And then they put packing tape around that. So they
made him like a burrito with his head sticking out.
They put him in his pack and play. I remember,
this is a three year old child brand he just
turned three, like in June at autistic nonverbal acts out, Okay,
(10:25):
got it.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Put him in a pack and play.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Put the pack and play in the closet upstairs, put
a fan on him, a box van, shut the door.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
It's August.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
And then they leave for two days to go to
a family reunion. That's what they wanted to do. They
want They had no interest in taking this kid who
acts up to this family reunion in Kentucky because they
wanted to have a good time. And as Sean Donovan
says in this they took the dog. They took their dog.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
They can't leave a dog, can't leave the dog. They
love the dog, loved the dog, didn't love Marcus. He
was some money. And the other kids that were there,
did they treat those other foster care kids? Says they
treated Marcus.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
You know, I don't really know for sure, but a
couple of them were their natural born children. I have
heard through the grape vine of people who you know,
taught them high school and that type of stuff, because
they would be in their twenties now too, that they
were pretty okay kids. You know. So they weren't ultimately
raised by their parents because their parents are in the pokey,
but I, you know, I had they had to have
(11:30):
been treated better than Marcus. They weren't troublesome to them.
I can only guess at what their lives are like.
But you know, what kind of a chaotic household are
you living in where your mom and dad have a
girlfriend living with you, and you've got all these you know,
I think it's wonderful. We need great foster parents, but
you've got, you know, kids coming in, and some of.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Them are being mistreated.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
At least one was we know that for sure to
mistreated to the point that they killed him.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Before we get to the trial and all that stuff
and how the thing broke. They were being paid to
look after Marcus Feisel and others. What evidence was there
that they used this shall we say is a money maker?
Not because they truly and foster parents are special. Big
levies up this as fall in which they need a
(12:19):
big increase service almost double the money I had Denise
Treehouse on the other day. There's at least thirteen thousand
Marcus Feisles children in foster.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Care, and a lot of them need special care.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
A lot of them are special needs kids. Yeah. And
for the parents that would take that on and say,
you know.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Those are angels, right, those are people that we can't
live without, and we're so grateful to all of you.
It is the investigators who told us that they were
using this as this is the way they earned an income.
So they would take kids that and I think they
took Marcus because they offered more money for Marcus.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Marcus needed extra care.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
So and by the way, this is a side fact
about right before she came out and said, I passed
out in the park, right, So that's August. What happened
was Marcus is dead, right, the foster care people who
check in on him come by the house and they say, hey, Okay,
(13:19):
this kid's looking good, this kid's looking good.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Where's Marcus? And I hate to use this term, but
here we go.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
The balls on Liz, the audacity, the absolute nerve she had,
and she made up this story like, well, you know,
he's had been sick all week. I mean, can you
imagine what you would do if you know this kid
is dead at your hands and someone comes to checking
on them, and you have the fortitude to say, he's
upstairs sleeping, he's been sick all week. Can we not
(13:47):
bother him? And so the person was like, yeah, sure,
we'll let that ride. We'll see you in a couple
of weeks. And they know she's coming back in two weeks,
so now they got to come up with a story.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
So this was the triggering moment.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
That's the moment that he's already gone. He's dead, he's
an angel. At this point, they got to figure out
what to do. And their original plan was to take
him to king I say taken quotes. They were going
to say he wandered away at King's Island and someone
must have grabbed him out of King's Island.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Was original, that's the original plan.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
And so you can see how that would be really
good because the park disperses and it's a huge footprint,
and people are going all over. They're heading up seventy
one's heading down seventy one. They're gone, and so now
you've got like a real issue. The problem they had
with King's Island apparently was that there are cameras, right,
so they picked a place that didn't have cameras. Where
(14:40):
is that it's a park? Why did they wander into
Hamilton County?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Now, many of these people that are involved in the
investigation feel like them wandering into Hamilin County became a
problem for them because you had Sile's who was a bulldog.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
He was not going to let this thing rest.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
You had a law and order shriff, law and order
prosecutor that there wasn't that going on in Claremont County,
but Hamlin County is a much more staffed organization, and
they are county and it has more money to throw
at this, and they are not going to let that
dog with a bone go never.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Before we get to the trial and this thing is
fascinating how it worked out. Sean Donovan was the chief
jeopardy sized the sheriff. Yeah, am I right to say?
From the first instance of a call from Julif's Park
in Erson Township and went from a suspicion to a belief.
So there sniffer told them that something's not right here.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Something's not right.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
They would go to the house. The house had holes
in the wall. So they're like, well, that's not normal.
I mean, if you have holes in your wall, like
someone's punched it or kicked it, that is not a
normal thing.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
FYI.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
So there's a household with a lot of kids, foster
kids in them, there are holes in the wall, and
they're like hmm. Mark Petemeyer, who was the chief assistant
prosecutor for him in the county, we interviewed, gosh, is
he a great storyteller?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Oh, my gosh, And.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
He says, you know, we were immediately thinking he lost control.
You know, he's he admitted he had a temper, David
Carroll did. We figured he murdered the kid. He didn't
mean to, but he lost control. He shook him, he
hit him, he did something. So that's the theory from
the beginning pretty much that they're running on, is that
David murdered this.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Kidching holes in walls. Man to punch a hole in
the wall through a plasterboard.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
But he admitted that he had done that.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
He would tell them, yeah, I have a temper and
sometimes I kind of lose it. I hit the wall
instead of a kid, for example. So that's why they're
going on that theory. That's their theory from the start
pretty much is that David doesn't look great. David takes
a light detector test. You know, do you remember this vaguely? Okay,
so if you recall, Liz Carol has the unbelievable audacity
(16:53):
to go and hold a news conference in which she
basically says, the police aren't doing enough to find my
beautiful boy.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I'm blaming the stay right there. That takes short break.
We got that coming up, then we got the trial itself,
and now this whole thing unraveled coming up. Tanyo ROC
Channel nine, seven o'clock tonight, Let's continue with more. Bill Cunningham,
News Radio seven hundred WLW. All right, Billy Cunningham, Let's
continue a Tanyo A Rourke in the studio, a big
(17:19):
special tonight, seven o'clock, Channel nine. Let's pick up the story.
Tell the American people, Tanya, how it broke.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Okay, So what we're talking about is the death of
Marcus Faisel and Lizzen David Carroll, her foster parents, his
foster parents who ultimately caused his death and are paying
the price for it. Now, you know this was a
if you remember Marcus folks who just started driving around
you just turn your car. He was this little kid
durable went allegedly missing, but really what his foster parents
(17:49):
had done was they killed him. And the problem was
for police anyway and the Sheriff's department, Haim Kuint of
Shriff's apartment, was they didn't have anything to go on.
All they had was the mom and dad and then
their girlfriend, their living girlfriend, Amy Baker, and all three
of them are just saying the same story over and
over and over.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
And over and over.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
No one's breaking.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
At this point, no one is breaking. We are now
like three weeks into this situation. You've got half a
Cincinnati out looking for this kid all the time, and
he's obviously nowhere to be found.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
But we didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
They know that David Carroll has a temper. He's been
putting holes in the wall of their house. And so
they eventually turned to Mark Pete Meyer and Joe Dieters,
who are the Hampton County Assistant prosecutor and prosecutor at
the time, and they're like, we don't have any We're stuck.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
We don't know what to do. We don't know what
to do, and.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
So I guess Joe says, hey, when's the last time
I saw that anyone saw this kid? Like, when's the
last time I don't know? You know, did they go anywhere? Yeah,
they went on a family get together gathering down in Kentucky.
When was that August fourth? And he's like, did anyone
go and check to see if Marcus was there? And
they're like nope, he because, well go do that. So
(19:07):
they go down there and they go come back and
they're like, Marcus wasn't there. Never showed up, the dog
was there, Marcus wasn't there.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
So the witnesses of the family get together said when
Marcus wasn't here, but the dog was there. So that
began the grand jury process. Explain what Joe Dieters Mark
Petemyer did in the grand jury.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Okay, and I just have to say, so this is
at seven o'clock tonight, and to hear these guys tell
this story is utterly gripping.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I'm going to summarize it.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
They issue fourthwith subpoenas, would you like to explain what
that is?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
We turn onth is.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Immediately come to the grand jury. In other words, says listen,
we'll see you a week from Tuesday. Now, fourthwith means
bring your body to the grand jury.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Fourthwith now you have to remember Liz Carroll, the foster mom,
is really.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Thinks that everyone thinks this kid's missing.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
They've really come up with great story and no one's
been able.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
To poke holes in it.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
So she's kind of like, h whatever, she doesn't ask for,
they pick her up, They pick up a baby bait her.
They can't find David Carroll. She's They offer her an attorney.
Liz like, I don't need an attorney. I'm good, I'm good.
You know Mark Pete Meyer, by the way, is it
one of the most fantastic attorneys in this town. And
what he he is such a such a great prosecutor.
(20:17):
You know, him in front of a jury is just incredible.
So he's like, all right, you need an attorney.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Fine.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
They get Amy Baker an attorney. His name's Norm Albin,
great guy.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
I know. Is Norm's still with us? I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Oh, I interviewed him for this right.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Norm did a lot of pro bono death penalty case.
Is good lawyer.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
He's a good lawyer, Norm Avin.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
And so they bring in Norm and they're talking to Amy,
and Amy's still telling the same story. Oh, you went
to the They went to the park and Liz passed
out and when they woke up, Mark's is gone. And
so I guess Joe leans it. And again you have
to see him say this stuff. Is He's like, listen,
you don't know me, but if you don't start telling
us the truth, you're going to prison today right now.
(21:01):
And so Norm's like, well, hold on, let me talk
to my client. And I'm sure they had said something
along the lines of like if you if you help us,
we'll make sure you're okay, we'll help you out. So
they think it's going to be like a five minute conversation.
An hour or so later, Normalbin walks out of this
meeting room with Amy and they said he's white as
(21:22):
a ghost. And they're like, you know all the bloods
drained from him. And he's like, you won't believe what
she had to say. And I believe her. She's telling
the truth, but I need protection for her.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Now.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
This is still to this day controversial. They say, great
if Amy tells us the truth and she did not
hurt that child was alive while he was alive, because
she is not a foster parent, she's just the girlfriend.
She's just hanging out.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
She's in with the other two.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
She's in thropple with Lizzen David.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
And so as long as she did not hurt this child,
we'll give her immunity on this case.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Texas El Paso get out of jail free card.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
That's correct.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
And to this day people will still say rightly wrongly,
I don't know, why.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Did you do that? Why would you do that?
Speaker 3 (22:10):
And so she they put it in front of they
hear her story, they put her in front of the
grand jury.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
She tells her story to the grand jury.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Joe described it as this grand jury solving because you
imagine this was a grand jury that just got sat
today like they have just been sworn in, told what
they're supposed to do, and they say to them, we're
not going to present a case to you. We're going
to we're gonna have We're going to try to solve
a case.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
So they how rare is that?
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Okay, you don't solve the case from the grand jury?
You indict the case are wrapped up in a ribbon
and it's simply indict. You don't solve the case. Only
in television do you solve the case in front of
the grand jury?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Right, this is so made for TV, right, made for TV.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Movie. And so Mark Pete Meyer tells them like, we're
going to try to solve this case in front of you. Now,
mind you, this grand jury has been following this case,
right right, they're probably like, you know, So she tells
the story of what happens to this poor little kid.
What happened you don't know? Yes, okay, So they want
to go to a family reunion in Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Marcus is a handful. Marcus is not.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
He's autistic, he's got he acts out whatever. So instead
of taking him, they wrap him up in a blanket,
wrap packing tape around him, all sticking outs his head.
They put him in a pack and play. They put
him in a closet with a box van on him,
shut the door. It's August, and they leave.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
For two days.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
For two days.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
They take the dog, take the other kids. They go
party for two days with the family with them. I mean,
who knows in Kentucky. Come back stiff as a board,
not alive.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
It's awful.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
And now at that point, Bill Cunningham, you have you
come home. You've done something that you shouldn't have done.
And by the way, apparently they've done it before to him,
and they condition the other kids to understand that, oh
it's okay to wrap you up like this. But you
come home and this you see, this kid is dead.
What is your first reaction going to be as a
(24:06):
normal human being.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Well, number one, I haven't killed the child.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Okay too, it's an accident. It's an accident.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
You're calling nine one one, you're telling police. We made
a horrible mistake. We didn't mean for this to happen.
Blah blah blah. Not Liz and David Carroll. They hatch
a plan to get rid of his body, and apparently
Amy knows of a you know, a house that is
burned down in Brown County, and so all this left
is the chimney.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
So they take his body out to that chimney and.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
They multiple times try to burn him up, just to
just incinerate this body in.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
The middle of nowhere, Brown County, fifty miles away. He's
already dead dead.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
They do it best they can, but they just couldn't
get the job fully done. By the way, all that
was left in that chimney were like you know, those
baby gap overall clips that was left in there. There
were some bone fragments we have of Dell Owens, who
was the corner at the time, talking about how they
had eighteen bones that could fit in the palm of
his hand.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
That's a little kid.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Then they take his body, what's left of it, and
they throw it in the Ohio River. So if you
think about that, if those three people stay mute, we're
still searching for Marcus today. Tough case, because how you
ever going to prove that your mind will not allow
you to think that that could happen.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
It'd be a prosecutor call your first witness. Unless Amy flipped,
there wasn't a first witness to call. Who do you call?
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Who are you calling? They're all telling the same story.
We were in a park, he went missing. We don't
know where he is. We're devastated. We love our little Marcus,
we want him back.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Let's go back to the grand jury at this point,
Amy Baker, but norm Albin, she's going to get immunity
if she tell us the truth and did not injure
Marcus while he was alive. What happened then with Liz.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
So Liz goes into the grand jury and she has
no idea that Amy Baker has just sung this song
in front of the grand jury, and she says to
According to Mark Petemeyer and Joe, they she's telling the
same story.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
You know, I was in the park, blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
And then Mark go's hunh, well, okay, So isn't it
true though, that you wrapped him up, did all this stuff,
put him in a closet and left for the weekend.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Oh oh oh.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Lizzie's look on her face has got to.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Be I mean Mark Mark replicates the look on her
face in this special we're doing tonight at seven o'clock.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
It's unbelievable. And she's caught. She's absolutely caught in.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Front of a grand jury. Swore on a bible that
she would tell the truth. So now she's got perjury
on her right. That's the least of her worries. That's
the least of her worries. And she says she then
she sings the song.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
So she also in the grand jury flipped because of
Amy Baker's She was caught, she was dead to right.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
She had something like Amy Baker told the whole story,
and she told the truth. And so how when you're
faced with the truth after thinking and she has no attorney,
Liz Carroll doesn't because she's like, I don't need an attorney.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I'm good. I've been I've been pulling the wad of
these people's eyes. I'm smarter than these idiots.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Mark, Pete Myra and Joe Dieters, side LEAs and Sean Donovan.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, I'm smarter.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I'm smarter than those guys.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, they don't know what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
They think that this kid went missing too, and so
they nailed her. They nailed her in that grand jury,
and they saw, guys, it is so unusual. Mark Mark was,
I don't prosecutor down there for forty years, chief assistant
prosecutor for forty plus years. He's like, that's the first
time that has ever happened.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
How rare of that is.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
And the thing is and norm Auben said this that
they really stated, like their political lives to take this gamble.
They didn't have to do any of that. They could
have just let the investigators keep investigating this. You know,
they didn't have many more leads, so they came to
Mark and Joe, but they could have, you know, they
(28:05):
could have just said, nah, you guys, let us know
when you got something and we'll take it from there.
They went and freaking figured this thing out. I mean,
they did the things.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
That you see happen on Law and Order. It's it's
kind of great, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So at this point, she sings like a canary. Still,
David Carroll is out there somewhere yep down the road, Lisz.
Carroll goes to trial as convicted of everything. What about
David Carroll? Did he ever?
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Did he ever? He never went to trial? You know,
this is a great guy. I'm not supposed to give
my opinion, you know, I'm not supposed to have an opinion.
This is a terrible guy. He saw his wife. She
went to trial because again she thinks she can beat
this rap. She goes to trial, she gets absolutely nailed
to the cross on this. She's not I mean, it
would be a I can't. I don't think she's up
(28:54):
for parole for another twenty five years, and she's already
been in there twenty years.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
So he goes, I'll take a plea.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
David Carroll, Yeah, likely the prime instigator, the man, the
violent man who brings Amy Baker into his marriage relationship,
the one driving the bus says, you know what, Liz,
you go first.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
She gets, hey, honey, why don't we see what happens
to you first?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Before I decided to put my life.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
She's up for sixty five years and she'll never make that.
And then David Carroll, the husband did what.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
So he took a plea for murder. He got fifteen
the life.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
He's already been up for parole ones it was about
four or five years ago, and it got denied. In
the meantime, we show pictures of what they look like
now he is an absolute skinhead, tats all the way
up his neck, teardrop tattoos on his face. As I
understand it, he's joined the Aryan Brotherhood in prison. So
(29:50):
he's making a great name for himself in there too.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
You know, he may not get out, nor should he.
What about Amy Baker? Amy Baker, Amy Baker?
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Do you think she should have gone? Should she observed
time for this?
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Well, it depends could you make the case elsewhere? And
if she was the key to making the case and
she didn't injure the child. Of course Wally was alive,
but she was the one that picked the side the
chimney in Brown County to cremate the That's terrible except
for that, except for Amy Baker, there would have been
no conviction of Lizen David.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
That was That's the argument. The argument by the prosecutor's
office was without Amy, what are we doing here?
Speaker 1 (30:26):
What's Amy doing these days? I imagine, Well, she's.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Out, she's out there.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
I think she still lives in Clairemont County. Okay, here's
my appeal to anyone listening. If you know Amy Baker,
I think she's now Amy Vaughan. If you know her
and she'll let me talk to her. I would love
to talk to Amy Baker.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
We have tried.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
We have like Lexus next as we have all these
search engines that can find stuff, how to find her,
can't find her, can't.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Find a good number four.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
I know that the last conviction she had, she's been
in and out of the prison system for her adult life.
I think it was twenty twenty two. She was convicted
in Claremont County on some drug charges. She's served at
a halfway home and I that's that's the last known
instance of Amy Baker von What is the legacy of
(31:10):
Marcus Faisal at this point?
Speaker 1 (31:12):
What has changed so these things are less likely to
happen in the future.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Well, there was a company called LifeWay for Youth who
placed Marcus with the Carols, And their argument at the
time was they checked out. They said they loved kids.
They you know, what were we not to do with them?
And again my heart breaks for any foster child and
the parents who people who take foster kids in God
love your souls, thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
The foster care system changed.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
They passed a I think it was Michael Fox passed
it in Ohio where you know the constraints on foster
parents are greater. The check ins are more specific and
more thorough. You can't just go in and say can
I see Marcus and they go, oh, he's not feeling well,
he's upstairs.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yeah, he's upstairs.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Well can you check back in a couple of weeks
doesn't happen anymore. So it If Marcus's legacy is anything,
I think that it's that it helped change the foster
system for the better.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
And we get into that online.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Our story tonight at seven o'clock is really looking at
what happened to Marcus and how they cracked this case.
It really is like a true crime like Netflix show
and the other thing I would say. I mean, I
think about this as a la person. You know, the
community at the time really put their arms around this
kid they never met, and this these foster parents that
(32:31):
they thought were doing good jobs and they were duped.
And I think that they probably walked when they heard
that Marcus was really what really happened to Marcus?
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I'm sure. I mean, I can speak.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
I've gotten messages from people since we started running the
promos going.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
I went and looked for him. I cried when I
heard of course you did.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Joe describes when he held the press conference and say,
we've just didn't We've just this is what happened to Marcus,
and we just charged them with manslaughter because that's the
first thing they could charge them with.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
That.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
The reporters were crying in the room because all of
us were invested in this little kid. So is there
something in that. Cincinnati's a great place filled with good,
big hearted people. And I hope what his legacy isn't
is that that made us more jaded. I hope that's
not the case, because that could definitely happen.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
There's two kids in Butler County that were missing, a
little cute little kid, African American boy that wandered away,
and whatever happened in this case, which was awful from
Marcus Feisel, the community came out one hundred percent to
try to find that kid before he jumped into a
laninguer upon.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, I think I kid at autism too.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
There's something to do with this. And Marcus Feisel's life
was miserable from the time he was born in Middletown
to the time he was murdered by himself.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
And Clairemont County, like in a mummy. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Can you imagine what that child went through with that
child who can't speak, wrapped up with your arms at
your side, but he died.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Eat it.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
What a horrible way to die, all alone in a closet.
The little boys just it breaks your heart. And I
I'm not We did this story. We did this half
hour on this because we want to remember Marcus, and
we want to remember how this community came out, and
we want you to know what happened behind the scenes
to make sure that the people who did this serve
(34:23):
the time that they deserve.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Every day. Yeah, when Marcus comes out of his chimney,
that's when these two should come out of prison, and
that one doesn't happen, the other doesn't happen, and they
should spend every moment of their life locked into a
jail cell and at the end they should be wrapped
in a blanket with duct tape and left to die.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
You know. Liz continues to say that it wasn't her
that did this. Liz has said now.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Since who did it? David?
Speaker 3 (34:47):
She says that Amy and her husband wanted to have sex,
so they wrapped him up like that, put him in
a closet. So they wouldn't be disturbed by him that
she was out shopping or something.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
She used herself as an innocent party. Right, He's the one,
and tonight you have. You showed me the opening of
tonight seven o'clock channel nine. Well, Tan, your work. This
is the highest kind of journalism you can do. Congratulations.
I think I'll watch tonight about seven o'clock. The legacy
of Marcus Faisel. Maybe is a better system for other
kids like Yeah, for sure, tanyr work. Thank you all right,
(35:17):
Thanks Bill. Let's continue news next at your home of
the Red's News Radio seven hundred WLW.
Bill Cunningham News
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