Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Doctor Jen. What has it been two three weeks?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Oh, Clint, it's I think it's been at least three weeks.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Yeah, you're talking.
Speaker 4 (00:10):
It's funny because you know, we do have a conversation.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
To talk about.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I think because they've occurred to me that if I
don't reach out to you, you don't reach.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Out to me.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yeah, about scheduling and we will just go for weeks
and weeks and so which you know, we don't have
to have this conversation now because this might not be
the best time, but I do think we should talk
about do we want to put this podcast to rest?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Ah, I get it, Okay, no problem, no problem. I
guess we won't have that conversation now.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Okay, got it.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
But you do travel a lot?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yes, I got you.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, because then I noticed when I am here, I
was like, I'm not hearing from Clint.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
So all right, I'll own that. I'll own it. I'll
own it. Okay, I will own that. Do we want
to get into the holiday gatherings?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Yeah? Well wait, so what are you doing for Thanksgiving?
Next week?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
We have my father, my stepmother, so my dad Richard,
my stepmother Carmen, my older son Gavin, our Dylan is
coming with his girlfriend Arlette from Hollywood, and then my
younger son will be here for the morning like a breakfast,
but he's going to go over to his girlfriend's house,
so he won't be there for Thanksgiving dinner along with
my wife and me and all that. And then on
(01:31):
Saturday of the weekend, Thanksgiving weekend, we're going to have Maya,
Gavin's girlfriend over along with her family, so we will
get Gavin for a dinner on that Saturday. But yeah,
what about you?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I will be The last two years I've been out
of town, but this year I will be in town
and my boyfriend has his kids for Thanksgiving, and so
I will be having Thanksgiving dinner with him and.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
His eleven and thirteen year old, So I'll be having
a family Thanksgiving of sorts.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Now, you've been together for how long?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Coming up on two and a half years?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Okay, but did you do this last year? You weren't
you guys weren't quite to that point.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
No, I've been hanging out with his kids for over
a year and a half now and that's all great.
So it's just last year he his ex wife had
the kids and we went out of town. And in
the year before that, Yeah, the kids didn't know about
me yet, and I actually was in Dubai for work.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, so no, so this isn't It's not like a
big meaningful deal in that way.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
But like, I love Thanksgiving, I love the food, I
love holidays.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I've noticed last week I was like, oh, I just
got like a kick in my step because Thanksgiving two
weeks away, and I was like, I can't believe how
excited I am. I just love you know. And I'm
a vegetarian too, So I got my toe fer ki
from Trader Shows.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Are you bringing that?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah, well I'm gonna make my own two perkys. No
one else is gonna eat it. So I'm making my
own turkey, you know, with some stuffing in it. And yeah,
I have no idea what he's making for him and
the kids and you know, and I'm sure we'll both
make sides that can be shared. But yeah, I'll make
my own to I'm happy.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
To travel with toferkey right on.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
So u IoT, now are they going to have all
the regular stuff?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
I have no idea. Actually, his uh, he grew up
a very picky eater, and both his children are very
picky eaters, so now he no doubt empathizes with his mother.
So I am guessing that most of the normal.
Speaker 5 (03:45):
Sides that his kids don't eat at all. So I
think it's going to be like figuring out what meat
they all want and will eat, and then and then
trying to do something else special for the kids, and
then and him and I figuring out because he'll probably
he'll like all the sides that I like, and then yeah,
(04:07):
and then my tooal fur.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Key, all right, I love Thanksgiving. I absolutely love the family. Well,
there's a little drama sometimes with the family, but the
y you know, certain members of the family. But the
point is, I love the idea. I love it overall.
I love the food. And I'm kind of bummed to
discover that my wife is not a fan. She loves Christmas,
but Thanksgiving, and she I think it's because of some
(04:29):
of the family drama. But in addition to that, she says,
you know, we spend all this time cooking, then we eat,
and then it's nothing but cleaning and she goes and
that's just Oh.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
If I was like a wife in in any version
of a traditional role, I would absolutely hate Thanksgiving.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
It's horrible, Like.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
What and got that's like horrible? Like how is that?
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Like everyone else gets to enjoy.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
And relax and eat all this amazing food and you're
literally getting up at four point thirty or something to
put a trikey Like it's just it's terrible.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I think it's absolutely terrible.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So and like if you're in a household where it's
still like that strong of a division of labor and
not everybody is chipping in equally at least in terms
of like time and labor, I'm going to say, like, dude, buddy,
it's twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, Well what's funny is is I do help. I
do offer to help. And in fact I told her,
I said, look, I'll do it. I don't care. And
for Christmas, I'm the guy who does a lot of that,
Like I'm you know, spent about four hours in the
kitchen with the Christmas pasta. But I told her, look,
you know, Thanksgiving, you want to relax, I'll do it.
Plus he's not a turkey fan. But it's kind of
(05:36):
funny that you mentioned this because, according to a new survey,
Americans may be getting tired of holiday gatherings. The average
person is going to plan to attend three big social
events this year. That's down from five last year.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Wait, wait, three big social events around the holidays, or like,
what do you mean by that?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Right around the holidays? So there's Thanksgiving, there's Christmas, and
probably New Year's Okay. Now, it's funny because a lot
of these people are saying secretly they want to be
anonymous about it, and most of the time they are anyway,
They're saying, you know, I kind of hope and nobody
shows up at my house. I just want to stay home,
watch TV, drink my own booze on my own couch.
But most people are still planning on Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners,
(06:13):
but fewer are doing get togethers for friends Giving or
even New Year's Eve. And yep, only thirty five percent
of people say they wish they were attending more gatherings
this year, and that's compared to sixty two percent last year.
And I think I'll tell you what I think it is.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
It's sad, right, Yeah, it is sad.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Do you want to know what I think it is?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Type of gatherings are really valuable for us as humans?
Speaker 4 (06:36):
But yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
I mean, I have a theory as well percent.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
My theory is social media. My theory is no one
is ever undiscoverable. You are always able to be reached,
always one hundred percent, Like there's no more Oh I
missed your email. Sorry you get social media. Oh shoot,
yeah you had the phone down. Really you had your
phone down. There's just no way to escape. And I
think people are tired. Plus you have to put your
(07:02):
game face on with certain guests.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yes, for sure, that's my theory. Okay, so you think
one people are just overstimulated. I said, that is absolutely true. Yes,
I think that's what's sad, is that they're over stimulated
with things that don't give us the depth and meaning
that in person interactions can create, especially when you're breaking
(07:26):
bread together, I agree, and having drinks together. So that's
a shame.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
The second piece is I can't help but think I
don't know if these surveys included a question like is
it specific to this year of wanting to have to
avoid controversial conversations because we're post election and this year
was insane, And I assume that at least in terms
of family gather like if folks are choosing to get
together with friends, that may be more their chosen family.
(07:53):
But if they're doing the family gatherings, you know, it's
more of a crapshoot.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
You could easily be.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Showing up and having voted for different people and having
different social political views. I would guess that that is
a massive player this year.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I would agree. I had a friend I will not
name the friend who is so upset and I've seen
this from other people as well over the results of
the election, that he said, if you voted for Trump,
just unfriend me and use the F word and really
means it, like holy crap. Yeah, And you know I
(08:34):
don't get involved in any of that stuff. I do
not respond. I don't. This is like just a post
on a wall on Facebook, and I don't ever want
to get involved in any of that stuff. In fact,
at the shop where I have coffee, this person who
by the way, he and I are friends and were great,
but will have I'm trying to be delicated. I don't
(08:57):
want to give anything away, so we'll have a conversation
with two other people who are along the same leanings,
and then if someone else gets involved and it gets heated,
he'll stop coming for a while. And that is not
my business because that's outside and they are free to
talk about what they want. But whenever it's brought up
(09:19):
inside the shop about anything to do with the politics,
I say, I don't discuss politics. This is my business.
You guys talk about what you want. I'm am not
going to have that conversation now. I might have a
conversation with one other person after the shop, but it's
not I just don't Yeah, mixing that boy, let me
(09:40):
tell you it is gone. Or the days where you
disagree and toast a beer and go on with your evening.
Now it's anything from I don't want to talk to
any more, ahole from both sides to oh I think
I want to kill you now. It's like, holy crap. No,
it's true. It's crazy how angry people get with each other.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah, well, so this is a topic.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
My publicist has lined me up with a couple TV
interviews around this topic, specifically about how to navigate tough
conversations around.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
The Thanksgiving table.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
And so I've been thinking about it and like putting
some ideas together. So I thought that would be fun
for us to talk about a bit here. Yeah, you know,
my you know, my main thought is, if you're going
to a gathering and and you are thinking that you
might talk politics. First of all, ask yourself, you know, why,
what's your intent? Why are you trying to bring it up?
(10:35):
Are you trying to change people's minds? Are you trying
to win conversations? Are you trying to vent?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Like, you know, what are you really hoping for?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
And is that really in the spirit of thanksgiving and
kindness and connection? So that's my you know, first place
to start for folks. And then if you know there's
going to be folks there who, you know, once they
start drinking, like to throw out their sociopolitical beliefs and such.
And it's in a way that's upsetting to you, you know,
(11:06):
do you want to just put up boundaries from the
start and ask folks or have like a like a
go to line of being like, Hey, I really want
us to have a good time here. I know we
see things very differently. Can I can I please ask
you to respect that we don't talk about these topics
and you know, making me the announcement at the start
(11:27):
or if somebody starts talking about it, just say it
in that way and if they want to keep going,
just keep coming back to that and be like, Hey,
I'm going to ask you, out of respect for all
of this and the energy and what we're trying to
create here and connection and enjoyment and appreciation, that you
please don't talk about those topics and hold that firm
line for yourself and then for.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Folks who do want to engage.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
In some way, again, be clear, like what's your intent?
Are you able to do? You know what I've talked
about on here before about generous listening. Are you listening
with the intent to actually understand? Are you listening with
an open heart of warmth and empathy? Are you acknowledging
their emotions? Are you asking genuine curiosity questions not to
do you know, gotcha moments, but like to actually understand
(12:11):
their perspective more.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
And frankly, if you.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Are practicing that at the Thanksgiving.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Table, you very well may be the only person practicing
at the table. So just no, Like it could be
a lot of emotional labor. But I truly believe if
people are going to do this.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
In a setting, well, frankly, in any setting, but I'm
going to say particularly a family gathering like Thanksgiving. If
you're going to do it, then only do it at
the utmost level of integrity and respect in listening like this,
and if you can't do it at that level, don't
do it and don't even bring.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Up the topics. Yeah, that's doctor Jim's advice.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
No, and I agree with you. And as you've stated before,
adding alcohol is often just the worst thing you can
do to that bus.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Here is something I told wife. I said, I think
most people and I shouldn't say most. I shouldn't do
that people some people. Oftentimes we as people and I'm
talking about doesn't matter who your candidate is, that you
that you, or what your political leaning is. I think
as human beings are issue more than ever today is
we care more about being right than what is right,
(13:22):
So it.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Won't mat I would say some people do.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
I definitely. I mean I am not that way, and
I know lots of people in my realm who are
not that way. I care about the impact on like
other people.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
I believe you when you say that. I believe you
when you say that. But there are people here right.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
I think there's a lot of reactivity and it's this,
It is this inner sense of needing to be right
or feel smart. Yeah, yeah, Like.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
I seriously, I look I'm a Christian guy, so I'm
going to use Jesus as an example. I think Jesus
could come down and say to some people, not everyone,
some people and go, uh no, that's that's not how
it is. This is the correct way, and they go,
I mean, I really think that's how important it is
for people to be example over. No really, and it's
(14:16):
and again, doctor Jen, it's every every political leaning has
people on both sides of the aisle. I shouldn't say
about there's really three, but let's just say the top two.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Right, Yeah, but I think there's lots. But yes, I
agree totally.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
And it's a shame because that's why when people post
on X or Facebook or Instagram, or you make a
comment to a friend, like you're talking about a family
member over over Thanksgiving, if you know which way that
person leans, then what are you trying to do?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
They're not gonna you know, exactly, yes, so and so.
My other suggestion, then, big picture is if you think
it's going to be contentious, or you're worried about it,
or you're not looking forward to it, come armed with
well like Thanksgiving icebreaker questions type of thing. Now you're
(15:05):
gonna have to be depending on if this is like
if you are with a group of people who have
never done stuff like this and don't like doing it,
you're gonna have to get other people on board to
help you out.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
But come with question.
Speaker 5 (15:15):
I mean, when I've done this at like friends givings before,
I love this, Like just even.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
The simple question, what's one thing that happened in this past.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Year that you're really grateful for?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
And I literally I could feel it in my chest
and I feel choked up just remembering folks going around
a table and sharing what they were most grateful for.
But then you can and you could say, what's the
what's the funniest, your most heartwarming memory you have from
a past Thanksgiving, Or what's the best meal you've ever
shared with somebody at this table, or what's one thing
you're really proud of from this past year.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
It can be.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Small or large, like those are lovely questions about topics
that really matter to us, that are.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Personal, that are vulnerable and.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Authentic, and those are the types of things that really
bring humans together.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, and I I agree with you, And I think
when you are it just makes you focus, like you're
saying on all of the good whether it be past
or present and forget. I really think there should even
be maybe some kind of timer that says, hey, for
the next two hours, we ain't talking anything politics, anything, religion, anything, money, weird,
(16:22):
it's all but that. And then maybe maybe after that
two hour timer goes off, you know, you go, Okay,
who wants to talk politics? Great other room, go ahead,
we'll be in.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Here's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Have a have a you know, set timer, have a
politics room if you want. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
It's crazy how pissed off people get.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I mean yeah, and then be like, Okay, free for all.
This is a free for all room. And then you
know what you're all choosing to be you are all. Yeah,
you have all consented to be in that room, so
every person for themselves and yeah, and then.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
The backyard boxing gloves.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
So anyway, Yeah, I think this is uh, you know,
like so many things in my work, it's you know,
I'm always trying to help people see how to be
intentional with what they're talking about or not talking about,
and then how they're showing up to conversations. And that
couldn't be more important than this Thanksgiving Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
The intentional listening, which you've talked about are listening with intent?
I think you've said it both ways, but jerous goshang it. Yeah,
but still the same thing. That's I think about that
oftentimes when I realize I'm drifting off and not paying
attention or I'm waiting to respond with my rebuttal rather
than hold on, let's just hear this out.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yeah, And I get if you are right, the only
person who's mindfully listening and communicating, it could feel very
you know, in very one directional and like unilateral, and
that nobody's doing the same for you. However, if you
come with a list of questions like what I said,
like everybody gets to go around and talk, so you know,
(18:15):
everybody gets to share things that are important to them
and meaningful to them. So yeah, I think you have
an alarm that's going to go off in like one minute.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
Is that correct?
Speaker 1 (18:25):
It is? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:27):
And do you want to keep Do you want to
keep doing this podcast or not?
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Because we could stop.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
We can absolutely, like we are both busy people. I
feel like the momentum isn't there anymore. You brought up
gosh back in the spring. I think about me be
wanting to stop. So I think this is important that
we revisit this topic.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
So here is here is my thing I'll tell you,
or maybe we just want to do well. So the
the whole reason, well not the whole reason. Put it
this way. The biggest reason for me to continue is
because I really enjoy it. Wow, we're talking. I love
while we're talking. I don't want to lose contact with you,
and I enjoy feedback from anybody listening. Now. I'm also
(19:08):
a hoarder of sorts, and it's very I'm a very
traditional person. It's very hard for me to stop anything
that I've been doing because of I don't even know,
guilt or fear of loss. Again, I want to keep
talking to you a lot. So that's what's kept me going,
along with the feedback. But again, ninety percent of it
is you. And so when we sit down and talk
(19:29):
like this, I love it. You know what it is.
It's the stopping down. It's the I just it just
seems like I never stop, and you too. I'm sure
ever stop even to edit my YouTube videos. I don't
put up near enough videos. Once i'm editing, I'm good.
It's the sitting down to do it and carving out
the time. That's what's killing me. And I don't mean
killing me like I can't do it. It's I don't know,
(19:53):
it's difficult too much.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, here's my proposition for you. This is episode two
fifty three.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
How about we do two more we cap at it
two fifty five, so we could be really intentional with
how we're winding down. Yeah, and yeah, bringing this to
a close.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
How does that sound if you're good with it. I'm
good with it, and honestly I shouldn't even put that
on you. That sounds good to me. But we have
to have an agreement. Yeah, we ope, there's that alarm.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
We okay, have to.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
I want to stay in touch. Yes, okay, that's my
biggest thing. I want to stand. By the way, anybody listening,
it is not that I don't care about you or
the part of the podcast, the reason whole reason we
started it. It's it is part sanity, it's part just
just go and go and go and go and go
and like you, doctor Jen. But I'm going to put
it on me. Uh, it's staying in contact. I want
(20:48):
to stay in contact.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Okay, We're going to have to be very intentional about that.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Then I have.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Alarmed, like set in our calendars to go off every
so often to check in with each other, get together
for coffee or a drink or something.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
That's what I'm talking about. I would love that eat
like a coffee somewhere, even a phone call or a text,
but yes, a coffee just I don't you know. It
doesn't have to beat once a month on the dot,
but it'd be nice every month or two just to
get together.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I'd be awesome.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Two more episodes. Wow, we just did it, didn't we.
And you're the one who You're the one who's who
who said hey, what do you want to do here?
So you're right, thank you for doing that, because I
don't know if I ever would have done it. How
to guilty?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
I know, and I see that in you and I yeah,
and that's that's why I was pointing out. And I
was like, Okay, he's not initiating this at all, and
you haven't done a long time, and I'm not I'm
not like guilty of you or anything. It's just an observation. No,
I wasn't going to bring it up to you, so
I will give you permission.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Well, thank you, but do know that I and we
have two more episodes. I love you very much. I
want to stay in touch. I know I'm repeating myself.
That is the whole reason that I didn't want to
have that conversation. But yeah, two more episodes sounds good.
And I'll say this, who knows between you and me
and the future. Maybe we maybe maybe no commitment. Maybe
we decide down the road that it's a seasonal thing.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
There you go, or we figure out other ways to
work together.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah right, yeah, but I am not putting a ballgag
in my mouth. I ain't doing that.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, too late, already signed up for that.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah right, all right, doctor jen By.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
I like it. Very good, very good conversation about this.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Thanks Clint, Thank you.