Caroline Topperman - Your Roots Cast a Shadow

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's your cat's favorite time of years. Make your season
more sir with the latest used traffic and weather. Fifty
five KRZ Day Talk Station.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Eight O four fifty five kr CD Talk Station, A
Happy Friday Eve to you a reminder tomorrow's the Christmas
Special with Rob Ryder in studio with his guitar and
fun and games as we end the year. For me
at least, I'll be often until the after the first
of the year and looking forward to celebrating Christmas and
sleeping in my favorite thing to do when I'm on vacation.

(00:37):
Another one of my favorite things to do is talk
with book authors. And what an amazing book This one
is Your Roots Cast a Shadow one Family Search Across
History four belonging my guest Carolyn Toverman, who has this
amazing background. Born in Swing, raised in Canada, returned to
her ancestral roots in Poland back in twenty thirteen to
just explore love of traveling, experience different cultures and what

(00:59):
culture and different things she experienced. Also writes about her family.
For example, her her paternal grandmother was the first woman
who's allowed buy groceries at a local Afghan market. Welcome
to the program, Carolyn Toverman. It is a pleasure to
have you on today.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
Thank you for having me. It's nice to meet you.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, let me first stay. They just point out I
am not a world of traveler by any stretch of
the imagination. The countries I visited included a business trip
to London, a trip to Ireland, and I've been to Canada.
There you go. Not exactly an adventurous person, am I?

(01:36):
But you know, I've always found, you know, the United
States to be a fascinating place. And there's so many
places I've been to the United States, and every time
I go someplace I've never been here, Like, for example,
I went to Yellowstone for the first time in my
life just this past June. I was my mind was
blown that we have such beauty here in the in

(01:56):
the United States, But you don't experience these radical cultural
distinct differences that you experience and write about in this book.
Did you always have this adventurous spirit in you? Did
you always want to travel?

Speaker 4 (02:10):
Well? I like to say that I traveled before I
was even born. So my parents when they left Poland
in nineteen sixty eight, when they had to leave, they
couldn't come back.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
They lived in Baghdad.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
They lived in Paris, then they lived in Sweden, where
I was born. And because most of my family was
in Europe, every other summer we would go visit them
and we would get in the car and we would
take a road trip somewhere. And so, yes, I think
that it was just there wasn't.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
A choice fair enough. Now you have to do what
your parents do. It's like military families. You might end
up being a military brad traveling from base to base
your entire life. It does happen, so you had the
benefit of that. I think my parents more like me
in terms of less adventuresome. But I guess what is
the motivation behind your writing about all of the amazing

(03:05):
things that you find in your roots cast a shadow.

Speaker 4 (03:09):
So because of travel, because of world wars and time
and politics, a lot of my family was fragmented, and
I didn't know a lot of this information. The group
of us that lived in Canada was my mother, my father,
my sister, me and then just immediate cousins, and everyone else.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Was in Europe, so I didn't know them.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
And when I moved and when I first started traveling,
and I first started talking to my parents and asking questions.
I just realized that there was such an incredible family
history that was that would have been lost if I
hadn't started to write about it.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Okay, driven by your interest in your own family history,
which is so amazingly diverse, you obviously have a story
to tell you, but such I mean unbelievably different cultures
just within your family, you know, when you look at
the various areas, Like for example, when I introduced you,
I mentioned your paternal grandmother, the first one who's labed

(04:15):
to buy groceries in a local Afghan market. So that
culture radically different than Canada or the United States or
even Poland.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
And they found themselves there almost by accident, because my
grandfather was an engineer. He was a road builder, and
he was one of the Polish engineers that helped build
the road from Kabul to Jalalabad in the nineteen forties.
But they found themselves in Afghanistan just before the war.
My father was already alive at the time, and so

(04:48):
they had no choice but to stay. They could not
go back to Europe. And my dad and my uncle
both grew up speaking Persian, so they had this ex
language and they just had this amazing experience living there
for the first seven or so years of their lives.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
How about that?

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Well?

Speaker 2 (05:09):
And I also note, and again from the notes, your
Jewish grandfather a rising star in the Communist Party. Now,
is that one of the reasons he had to flee
Poland at the beginning of World War two because he
was a Communist?

Speaker 3 (05:22):
No, because because he was a Jew the Jewish part. Yes,
there's that, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
So he they were they I think it's what helped
him survive the war, was that he was a Communist
because he had people that he could reach. But my
grandparents actually fled to Uzbekistan. So they survived the war
in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, and then came back, but by way

(05:49):
of Moscow because that's where my grandfather had contacts.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Wow, so they were there to see all of the
you know post y'allta division of the various countries between
the West and the East. Did you know them, I mean,
were they are alive in your life? You had conversations
with them?

Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (06:07):
Absolutely, so my maternal grandparents I knew them. My grandmother
died about ten years ago, so I knew both of
them very well.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
But they refused to talk about it. That was what
they did.

Speaker 4 (06:21):
My grandfather wrote a book called It's a Chronicle of Events.
It's not officially published anywhere. It was friends and family.
He was an engineer, so it was mostly names, very
difficult to read. It's written in Polish, but he did
a chronicle of how they fled and what happened, and
so a lot of this book.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
I relied on that information for a lot of this book.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
How about that? Well, I also understand you are multi
lingual from someone I struggled in taking German. I had
to take German as a prerequisite to get a college degree,
you know, and so five hour German. After I had
a couple of years in high school, I remember like
three words, you know. I never could get the gender,
the dardi das you know, male female, neuter thing and anyway,

(07:07):
my brain, I guess, just isn't cut out for it.
But you how many language can you speak?

Speaker 3 (07:12):
So I speak three? My mother I spoke about seven
or eight or eight.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
That's mind blowing to me.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
But I've always spoken them.

Speaker 4 (07:24):
I grew up I spoke Polish before I learned English,
and then I went to a French school. So they
were they have always been a part of my life.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
Wow, that's wild now, Okay, In terms of who you
wrote the book for, I understand the motivation behind it. Clearly,
your background has this wonderful opportunity to learn so much
about your family while you know I obviously providing these
wonderful stories. Are are you writing it for people to
suggest that they too should look into their background for
their families, or it was just a personal exercise you

(07:58):
wanted it turned into a published work, or are you
trying to tell people to maybe get out of their
own backyard and get out into the world.

Speaker 4 (08:05):
So originally, actually part of my pitch was that this
was for the armchair traveler, the person who knew that
there was more to their story, but they needed to
find it and they didn't know how. So this was
a little bit of a push for that. And ultimately
I think it's about starting conversations with people and realizing

(08:25):
that even though you know we may come from two
very different worlds, or even for people who haven't traveled
a lot, you know when you say you've always wanted
to or you started to learn German, I've always wanted
to learn German, and my grandparents actually lived in Germany.
And I have family in Germany, and so that's a connection,
that's something we can talk about. And it was really

(08:47):
to start these conversations between people just to show us
that we have a lot more in common sometimes than
we think we do.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Well, we live in a very divided world. And since
my radio program is mostly dedicated speaking and talking about
matters political, I often recommend and I was a litigation
attorney for sixteen years for I've been on radio, but
to start your conversations always try to spring from a
point of mutual interest. If you can find a point

(09:17):
of agreement, you at least start off on a pleasant foot,
even though that conversation may take a turn someplace, try
to find something a mutual agreement. So this is a
wonderful opportunity to do that. And I'm sure you get
this question all the time. But considering the global travel
and all of the places that you were and have
been in writing this book, what is the most interesting

(09:40):
thing or weirdest thing or funnest fact that you found
out about your family or family history during your discovery.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
So a lot of.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
It was what you mentioned that my grandmother was the
first woman allowed to trade with the men in the
square in Afghanistan. I think that was mind blowing. I
had no idea about that, and actually also just finding
out about my maternal grandparents and the journey that they
took partially on foot, by water, by train to flee.

(10:13):
But I think the thing that really sticks out to
me the most is they all chose to come back,
and they all returned to Poland in nineteen forty four.
And when I say that, people think, well, isn't that
too early, And I have to explain, well, no, the
front had already moved at that point, so they weren't
in danger. But it was that decision to return when

(10:35):
so many people just they had been done with it
and didn't want to return.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
And I can certainly understand that. But you know, there
is some weird connection that we as human beings had
with our home land. Come what may, politics otherwise you
still won't always go home. So I understand that, but
real quick before we part company again. The name of
the book, Your Roots Cast a Shadow, One family search
across history for belonging Carolyn Topperman, the author. You can

(11:00):
get a copy of the book at my blog page
fifty five cars dot com. On the Afghan market thing.
Did she get special treatment because her husband was building
a road or is this just a period of time
where there was a sociological advancement where women were accepted
and allowed to participate. What's what's the backstory on them?

Speaker 3 (11:19):
And if I can ask, Yeah, absolutely so. No.

Speaker 4 (11:23):
She actually the first time she went, she had rotten
fruit and stones thrown at her. They didn't want her there,
and she was just extremely determined to do that that
she would be able to handle the groceries for her family.
And the other thing that's not in this part of
the book is that she actually convinced the local governor

(11:46):
to let girls wear jim shorts to class to the
gym class because she taught at a local school. So
it was just it was her. It was entirely her
attitude and her perseverance and who this woman was.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
She's like the rows of parks of Afghanistan a little bit.
That's awesome, Well, Carolyn Topperman, and has been a real
pleasure talking with you about this wonderful book. I'll encourage
my listeners get a copy of it. Heck, you know
it's a holiday season, gift giving time, why not get
a book and maybe encourage people to explore their own
family's history or perhaps even travel abroad. Carolyn, thanks again.

(12:25):
I hope you have a wonderful holiday season. I wish
you the best on book sales. And it's been a
pleasure actually seeing you and talking with you during this
video conference.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Thank you for having me. This has been really fun.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
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