June 5, 2026 • 17 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
See Deep Talk Station.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Six two if you have KCD talk station and it
is that time of week. I always look forward to
man to scare the hell out. If you pay attention
to them, you'll be on the right path. It is
Dave hat Or Intrust its Dave hat Or intrust dot
com is where you find them for business computer issues needs,
set up and security. They are the best in the business.
Courier has said that out loud, and I know Dave
(00:23):
has helped so many people, and he also sponsors this
segment and he provides us with great and valuable information.
Welcome back, Dave hat Or. It's a pleasure to have
you on the show.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
As always always my pleasure to be here, Brian. So
you know, I like to say, hopefully we're doing some
good out there.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
You are absolutely free DNA kits.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
What's this all about? I think of twenty two and
meter or twenty three and me or whatever that you
give people your DNA and for the purposes of something
that you think is really cool, like where are my
ancestors and where am I from? But that puts it
in a database that well officials from around the globe
can tap into and get that record. Plus it creates
some realty or wellion future potential abuses and abuses.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah, this is a really interesting thing because honestly, Brian,
I did not know about this until this week when
Brenda Ordonez, a reporter at Fox and I or Fox nineteen,
called me and said, hey, you know anything about this
and would you talk about it? I'm like, well, I
don't want to think about it, but you know me,
I'll talk about it. So as I understand it. And
here's the headline from Fox nineteen. Cincinti police to offer
(01:26):
free DNA kits for cold cases, but privacy concerns remain.
I fully understand the idea behind this, and I'm not
against not against it from an idea standpoint. My concern is, Okay,
where does this data go? Because let me just stop
there and say, as we have discussed now for more
than a decade, your data is a lot more valuable
(01:48):
than you realize. Bad guys can use it not only
to perpetrate fraud in your name, you know, identity theft,
that sort of thing, but as more and more data
gets out there out about you, it makes it easier
for the bad guys to use it to ca advince
you their legit somehow, right, Well, this seems like it's
information that only the Hamlin County Sheriff would have, or
only the bank would have when you get that call.
(02:08):
But you know, you can get a new Social Security
number potentially if you have to. You can get a
new driver's license number, you can get a new phone number.
You can't get new DNA right. Once it's out there,
it's out there, and as far fetched as it sounds now,
I'm no scientists, but you know, especially during COVID, people
talked about bioweapons and genetically engineered weapons and that sort
(02:30):
of thing. You can't get it new DNA. Once it's
out there. It's out there now. And I want to
be clear, you know, I support the police. I have
no reason to believe that the Cincinnati Police Department would
do anything right untoward with this data. My issue is,
you know, once they collect it and they submit it
to test it so they can compare it to databases
(02:51):
and see like, hey, Dave Hatter is a you know,
third degree cousin to Joe Doaks, who's a suspect in
a crime that puts this person, you know, in close
approximate ere I mean you see this stuff on TV.
You see how they use it. I totally get why
they would want it, so I don't Again, I don't
have a problem with it in principle. My issue is
where is the data get stored? Now, again, if it's
(03:13):
all police police are under HIPPA, you know, through the
local governments and so forth, they have evidentiary procedures. I
have no issue with the Cincinnati police whatsoever. My issue
is where does this day to go? Does it going
to a third party? What happens? Like you mentioned twenty
three and meters. You know there are plenty of headlines
out there a couple of years ago when they ran
into financial problems, go delete your data right now. In fact,
(03:35):
I think we talked about that, yep.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And you know, if it's out there, it's hackable. I
mean there even been health systems networks that have and
you think they're under hipp as well. And yet hey,
how come my medical records went out into the world.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
You're exactly right, Brian, you know there's nothing that's unhackable
at this point. First off, I just want to state clearly,
and you don't have to take my word for it,
to see what experts that are more well known than me,
are saying, if it's digital, it's haackable. I think I
mentioned this maybe a week or two ago. Mick O Hipponin,
a well known cybersecurity expert, wrote a book. If it's smart,
it's vulnerable, right, If it's got software in it, If
(04:10):
it's an Internet of Things device, which is really anything
that's connected to the Internet, it's hackable. But again, are
is this testing internal? Is it to the FBI or
some other government system where in theory you're going to
have better protections and protection under Hippa, Okay, I would
be more amenable to that. But if it's I'm using
they're using some sort of third party company like A
twenty three and meters to do this, there is no
(04:32):
way I would I would volunteer with this program. Not
because I don't trust the Cincinnati Police. I absolutely trust them.
I don't trust these third party companies. What happens when
they get you know, are they doing the right things
to protect your data? Can they sell that data? What
happens if they go out of business? I mean all
the same concerns you hear all the time with any
third party company that has access to sensitive data. In
my mind or you know, elevated from maybe A three
(04:54):
to at ten when it's something like your genetic data. Again,
you can't get new genes. You can't get me exclamations
out there. That's a problem. So I would I would
not participate in this, even though I understand the principle.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Well, I don't think you can get a new fingerprint either,
and we're gonna talk about that later in the segment
with interesting Ties Dave Hatter, don't go away more. First
Father's Day, you know it's coming up June twenty. First
the talk station six, I think about KRCV Talk station.
It's Tech Friday with Dave Hatter. Intrust dot Com, the
sponsor of the segment that's day's company business career, says
(05:27):
that the best in the business for business computing. To
find the articles that Dave relies on, just go to
LinkedIn dot com, just search Dave Hatter. You will find them.
And he's got a substack of all the documents he
relies on for the segment as well as other information.
A valuable tool for that or is that right there?
So check it out. Dave flock cameras controversial, law enforcement
loves them they do have some tremendous value, but also
(05:48):
major security concerns. But why is this Ohio city in
which one because I don't have but one page of
the article covering it was Dayton. Joe, thank you, Joe Strecker.
Why is Dayton covering all of its flock cameras.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Go to the rescue? Yeah, So, Brian, flock has been
quite controversial for those who don't know, and I have
posted a lot about this on my various social media
in the not too recent past, as it's come up
in northern Kentucky with various cities including Fort Wright, where
I think you know I'm the mayor. Oh yeah, some
(06:23):
council members who are interested in it, and we have
elected not to go down this path. So you know, Brian,
I'm not sure this is not going to come as
a surprise to you. I'm not a fan of orwell
in surveillance state we're building with all this technology, everything
has sofferre in it. Now you don't really own it
at this point because they claim it's their intellectual property,
(06:43):
so you can't fix it. It's got cameras, it's got microphones,
and I'm not necessarily against like CCTV cameras. Right. My
issue is I don't think the average consumer really understands
what many of these devices are capable of. On top
of that, a lot of these chips come from our
(07:04):
friends in the Chinese Communist Party. The software potentially has
back doors in it, and I mean there are already
demonstrable examples where these sorts of devices have been hacked
in other places and used by foreign adversaries like Rush
Russia against Ukraine or before the hostilities in Iran started.
(07:24):
So you know, we are adding so much of this
stuff into the world at this point, and I don't
think people really think about the consequences. Yes, I get
all the arguments for why these things can be helpful.
You can, you know, find a missing elderly person or
a missing kid, or a track down a criminal because
you know, you drive by, it reached your license plate.
(07:46):
Some cases there's facial recognition as well. It says, okay,
there's be on the lookout for this license plate and
it sends an alert to the local police department or whatever.
So I get all the arguments in favor of it,
But if you dig into this, you'll see there are
many many privacy concerns about flock. There's a video of
a guy hacking a flock camera and watching himself on
(08:07):
the camera. Oh, but yeah, it's there's plenty of information
out there, but what of people who want to go
see for themselves covering them up?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Obviously, we can appreciate all those countered by the argument that, well,
there is no expectation of privacy when you're walking around
out in the open in the world, and that is
true from a legal perspective as well.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
So I would say, real quick, there's a website called dflock.
People should go look into that. But yeah, in this case,
apparently it's it's dating. As Joe mentioned, their Dayton has
had some concerns about it. Apparently it says they were
deactivated after leaders learned they're used by police was not
within Commission approved guidelines. This has been another concern that's
come up where people that have access to these systems
(08:48):
are using them in ways that are unethical.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Ex girlfriends and wives. Yeah, okay, we had that come
up recently in terms of database searches cheez, that sort
of thing.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
But then apparently there were concerns that even after these
things were disabled, that they were somehow still recording again, Brian,
if something has a if something has a camera and
a microphone in it, unless it is turned off, and
even that nowadays, how can you know for sure if
you can't like take the battery out of something or
you know, that's one of the concerns. You know with
(09:23):
modern cell phones you used to be able to take
the battery out. Well, you can't take the battery out
there you press the button, it says it's turned off.
Is it really turned off? I don't mean to sound conspiratorial,
but can you really know why? It might not be
a bad idea to get yourself a Faraday cage bag,
wallet whatever that you can put the phone in. But anyhow,
you know, it says here. You know, despite city leaders
(09:44):
deactivating all the cameras across four neighborhoods, it didn't reassure everyone,
so they decided to cover the cameras, hoping it would
be a temporary fix. And then you know that goes
on to report that some reporters went out and you know,
saw the things covered. Two cameras along Xenia Avenue are
also bagged. The city s all thirty seven cameras are covered.
So it'll be interesting to see. You know, some cities
(10:04):
because of these privacy concerns and things like this, have
canceled their contracts taking these things out. It'll be interesting
to see where this goes, because truly most of the
press seems to be piling up on the negative side
of this at this time. So yeah, I'm not a fan,
but we won't be getting these in fort Right anytime soon.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Promise from the current mayor of or Right. Yes, don't
get Donald Trump on your bad side. You'll be primary.
Dave had It, We'll bring you back. Can you replace you?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
See the talk station.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Six fifty on a Friday, and Happy Friday to everybody.
Just get the pleasure and sometimes frightening reality. But Dave
had Or from interest it tells us it's Tech Friday
and pivoting over away from uh. You only have one
set of DNA and you can't change it. I guess
it's the same thing to say with fingerprints and Judguah
Poalatana brought this up when we were talking with him.
I guess it was on Wednesday. If you take a
(10:57):
picture of someone and you can see the finger print,
and those fingerprints can be recreated, which obviously raises some
massive security problems. Is that true, Dave Hatter?
Speaker 1 (11:08):
It is true, and it's been around for a long time.
But the point they're making now is that thanks to AI,
you can enhance the resolution of pictures. You know, So
let me take a step back, all the way back.
I believe it was twenty fourteen, and I think we
talked about this, Brian. There was someone who took a
picture of the then German guest Chancellor Prime Minister. I
(11:30):
can't remember what these folks titles are in Europe all
the time.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Union European Commissioned President Ursula vonder Leyan there you.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Go, took a picture of her finger and sort of
demonstrated this idea, right, and this has been done before.
The point they're making now is that, again, thanks to AI,
and thanks to the fact that people take lots of
selfies holding their fingers up and like the peace sign
or anything like that, you can take a picture, potentially
(11:58):
enhance it and the theoretically extract the fingerprints out of it. Again,
this idea isn't really new, but it's sort of been
an Internet panic. And you know, I kind of agree
with the premise of this CBS article. It is absolutely possible,
and I think this is yet another illustration of why
in today's digital world, where everything is digital, you need
to be thinking about these kind of things and be thinking, Okay,
(12:21):
how could something that I'm doing that you know twenty
thirty years ago would have been completely inocuous be used
against me? But I don't think the average person is
going to be attacked to this for two reasons. A,
it's going to take some work potentially to turn your
fingerprints into something usable and be In most cases, you
know your fingerprint comes in with a physical log in
(12:43):
where you have to touch something. So it's not like
the hackers could really use that potentially because you know
you have a fingerprint scanner some sort of biometric device,
you typically have to touch it. So unless as a
hacker I have physical access to your device, I'm not
going to be able to use that.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Okay, let me just throw something in there on the
tech round because you know, here's my mind thinking, well,
if you have the let's say quality image of a fingerprint,
clearly you can't use that to log in. But with
three D printers these days, I can see someone using
that as a templay to create a three D form
image that could be used.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
That's that's the potential. Most newer good biometric scanners also
do things like tests to see is there a heat there.
It's not just the image. There are some other tests
they perform to try to figure out is this actually
a human being touching this thing? But I guess my
bigger point is this is not something I would spend
a lot of time worrying about. But I also don't
(13:42):
take selfies holding up the peace sign. I'm not going
to show you my fingerprints if I can help. It
doesn't mean though that like for example, if you, you know,
you get out and speak at public events, you know,
could someone take a picture of you holding up your
hand just gesturing while you're talking. Happened potentially still, your fingerprints.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Happened all the I mean, I'm stealing my fingerprints is
one thing, But I mean, yeah, I've had my hand
up a gazillion times in pictures, right, so it happened.
I don't even think about something like that.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, And I guess that's my point. I think this
is not a giant risk to the average person, at
least not yet. Yeah, but I do think I do
think it's something worth thinking about. And again, if you're
out in public, if you're gesturing, if people are taking pictures,
you know, or if you're someone who just can't resist
the urge to take a selfie making the peace sign,
well turn your fingers the other direction, you know. I
(14:29):
hate that we're at a place where you have to
think about these kind of things. But the main defense
to this other than don't let people take pictures of you,
which is now impossible thanks to smart glasses and garbage
like that. You know, I can tell you, as someone
who does a lot of public speaking in the future, yes,
I will be trying to not show my fingerprints.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Well, let me ask you this, because the event was
out yesterday. Thank you to Dan Reaganold and Kevin Nichols
for providing some adult beverages. I did have a couple
of beers while I was there. It wouldn't have been
a lot easier. Or if someone really one of my
fingerprints had just pulled a beer bottle out of the
garbage can because I didn't have gloves on when I
was drinking like most people do.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Probably, but would your average you know the thing about
this right? Yes, I certainly. If you have forensics expertise,
you can go get the beer bottle, the coffee cup
or whatever dust it get the fingerprints off of it.
But you got to have some expertise in that area.
You got to have physical access to that stuff, versus
here's a person. You know. I think we've talked about
this North Korean hacker thing, and I have a story
(15:30):
I'll maybe we'll talk about next week. But my point is, if,
for example, you were a North Korean hacker and you
were working in a company and there was an employee
there and you want an access to their account, could
you find a picture of them and use their fingerprints
in the ways we've described here to get into their account. Maybe? Maybe, Again,
don't I don't think the average person needs to lose
(15:50):
sleep over this. But as technology improves, the resolution of
cameras continues to improve, AI continues to advance and be
able to take a sure enhance it, it's something to
at least think about, So I think it's worth warning folks. Again,
I'm not losing a lot of sleep over it, but
I can tell you I will not be waving my
hands around in a way where someone could easily capture
(16:12):
a picture of my fingerprints and use them for some
nefarious purpose.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
So what I'm hearing is don't worry about it. But
Dave is already worrying about it. That's what I'm hearing.
And Dave, you will be around when in the next
moment in the development of intelligence with computers and all
the like, when we should start worrying about it, and
you'll let us know the day that that happens.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Right, And yes, and you know, Brian, I am the
tinfoil hat guy, so I can't help it when I
see these things, It's like, well, that's potentially bad. So
it is.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
You know, Yes, some terrible things coming along with these,
with these improvements technologically, but also some wonderful things. That's
for us to balance the benefits and the wrist, which
is why we have Dave had or blessed interest It
sponsors this valuable segment every week. You'll be on next
week with the play You'll have the pleasure of Gary
Jeff Walker. I'll be off next week dealing with my
chemo aftermath and clearing my head up so I can
(17:01):
come back in a week and hopefully hit the ground running.
So I hope you enjoy talking to him. I will
obviously check out the podcast of that conversation and look
forward to talking with you in two weeks. Dave Hatter,
have a wonderful weekend and thank you for everything you
do for my listening audience.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah, always my pleasure. Brian, best of luck, say some
prayers for you. Thanks, look forward to talking to you
when he gets back.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I look forward to talking to you as I always do.
We'll see you then, don't go away after the top
of the hour news in honor of national donut
See Deep Talk Station.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Six two if you have KCD talk station and it
is that time of week. I always look forward to
man to scare the hell out. If you pay attention
to them, you'll be on the right path. It is
Dave hat Or Intrust its Dave hat Or intrust dot
com is where you find them for business computer issues needs,
set up and security. They are the best in the business.
Courier has said that out loud, and I know Dave
(00:23):
has helped so many people, and he also sponsors this
segment and he provides us with great and valuable information.
Welcome back, Dave hat Or. It's a pleasure to have
you on the show.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
As always always my pleasure to be here, Brian. So
you know, I like to say, hopefully we're doing some
good out there.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
You are absolutely free DNA kits.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
What's this all about? I think of twenty two and
meter or twenty three and me or whatever that you
give people your DNA and for the purposes of something
that you think is really cool, like where are my
ancestors and where am I from? But that puts it
in a database that well officials from around the globe
can tap into and get that record. Plus it creates
some realty or wellion future potential abuses and abuses.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah, this is a really interesting thing because honestly, Brian,
I did not know about this until this week when
Brenda Ordonez, a reporter at Fox and I or Fox nineteen,
called me and said, hey, you know anything about this
and would you talk about it? I'm like, well, I
don't want to think about it, but you know me,
I'll talk about it. So as I understand it. And
here's the headline from Fox nineteen. Cincinti police to offer
(01:26):
free DNA kits for cold cases, but privacy concerns remain.
I fully understand the idea behind this, and I'm not
against not against it from an idea standpoint. My concern is, Okay,
where does this data go? Because let me just stop
there and say, as we have discussed now for more
than a decade, your data is a lot more valuable
(01:48):
than you realize. Bad guys can use it not only
to perpetrate fraud in your name, you know, identity theft,
that sort of thing, but as more and more data
gets out there out about you, it makes it easier
for the bad guys to use it to ca advince
you their legit somehow, right, Well, this seems like it's
information that only the Hamlin County Sheriff would have, or
only the bank would have when you get that call.
(02:08):
But you know, you can get a new Social Security
number potentially if you have to. You can get a
new driver's license number, you can get a new phone number.
You can't get new DNA right. Once it's out there,
it's out there, and as far fetched as it sounds now,
I'm no scientists, but you know, especially during COVID, people
talked about bioweapons and genetically engineered weapons and that sort
(02:30):
of thing. You can't get it new DNA. Once it's
out there. It's out there now. And I want to
be clear, you know, I support the police. I have
no reason to believe that the Cincinnati Police Department would
do anything right untoward with this data. My issue is,
you know, once they collect it and they submit it
to test it so they can compare it to databases
(02:51):
and see like, hey, Dave Hatter is a you know,
third degree cousin to Joe Doaks, who's a suspect in
a crime that puts this person, you know, in close
approximate ere I mean you see this stuff on TV.
You see how they use it. I totally get why
they would want it, so I don't Again, I don't
have a problem with it in principle. My issue is
where is the data get stored? Now, again, if it's
(03:13):
all police police are under HIPPA, you know, through the
local governments and so forth, they have evidentiary procedures. I
have no issue with the Cincinnati police whatsoever. My issue
is where does this day to go? Does it going
to a third party? What happens? Like you mentioned twenty
three and meters. You know there are plenty of headlines
out there a couple of years ago when they ran
into financial problems, go delete your data right now. In fact,
(03:35):
I think we talked about that, yep.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And you know, if it's out there, it's hackable. I
mean there even been health systems networks that have and
you think they're under hipp as well. And yet hey,
how come my medical records went out into the world.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
You're exactly right, Brian, you know there's nothing that's unhackable
at this point. First off, I just want to state clearly,
and you don't have to take my word for it,
to see what experts that are more well known than me,
are saying, if it's digital, it's haackable. I think I
mentioned this maybe a week or two ago. Mick O Hipponin,
a well known cybersecurity expert, wrote a book. If it's smart,
it's vulnerable, right, If it's got software in it, If
(04:10):
it's an Internet of Things device, which is really anything
that's connected to the Internet, it's hackable. But again, are
is this testing internal? Is it to the FBI or
some other government system where in theory you're going to
have better protections and protection under Hippa, Okay, I would
be more amenable to that. But if it's I'm using
they're using some sort of third party company like A
twenty three and meters to do this, there is no
(04:32):
way I would I would volunteer with this program. Not
because I don't trust the Cincinnati Police. I absolutely trust them.
I don't trust these third party companies. What happens when
they get you know, are they doing the right things
to protect your data? Can they sell that data? What
happens if they go out of business? I mean all
the same concerns you hear all the time with any
third party company that has access to sensitive data. In
my mind or you know, elevated from maybe A three
(04:54):
to at ten when it's something like your genetic data. Again,
you can't get new genes. You can't get me exclamations
out there. That's a problem. So I would I would
not participate in this, even though I understand the principle.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Well, I don't think you can get a new fingerprint either,
and we're gonna talk about that later in the segment
with interesting Ties Dave Hatter, don't go away more. First
Father's Day, you know it's coming up June twenty. First
the talk station six, I think about KRCV Talk station.
It's Tech Friday with Dave Hatter. Intrust dot Com, the
sponsor of the segment that's day's company business career, says
(05:27):
that the best in the business for business computing. To
find the articles that Dave relies on, just go to
LinkedIn dot com, just search Dave Hatter. You will find them.
And he's got a substack of all the documents he
relies on for the segment as well as other information.
A valuable tool for that or is that right there?
So check it out. Dave flock cameras controversial, law enforcement
loves them they do have some tremendous value, but also
(05:48):
major security concerns. But why is this Ohio city in
which one because I don't have but one page of
the article covering it was Dayton. Joe, thank you, Joe Strecker.
Why is Dayton covering all of its flock cameras.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Go to the rescue? Yeah, So, Brian, flock has been
quite controversial for those who don't know, and I have
posted a lot about this on my various social media
in the not too recent past, as it's come up
in northern Kentucky with various cities including Fort Wright, where
I think you know I'm the mayor. Oh yeah, some
(06:23):
council members who are interested in it, and we have
elected not to go down this path. So you know, Brian,
I'm not sure this is not going to come as
a surprise to you. I'm not a fan of orwell
in surveillance state we're building with all this technology, everything
has sofferre in it. Now you don't really own it
at this point because they claim it's their intellectual property,
(06:43):
so you can't fix it. It's got cameras, it's got microphones,
and I'm not necessarily against like CCTV cameras. Right. My
issue is I don't think the average consumer really understands
what many of these devices are capable of. On top
of that, a lot of these chips come from our
(07:04):
friends in the Chinese Communist Party. The software potentially has
back doors in it, and I mean there are already
demonstrable examples where these sorts of devices have been hacked
in other places and used by foreign adversaries like Rush
Russia against Ukraine or before the hostilities in Iran started.
(07:24):
So you know, we are adding so much of this
stuff into the world at this point, and I don't
think people really think about the consequences. Yes, I get
all the arguments for why these things can be helpful.
You can, you know, find a missing elderly person or
a missing kid, or a track down a criminal because
you know, you drive by, it reached your license plate.
(07:46):
Some cases there's facial recognition as well. It says, okay,
there's be on the lookout for this license plate and
it sends an alert to the local police department or whatever.
So I get all the arguments in favor of it,
But if you dig into this, you'll see there are
many many privacy concerns about flock. There's a video of
a guy hacking a flock camera and watching himself on
(08:07):
the camera. Oh, but yeah, it's there's plenty of information
out there, but what of people who want to go
see for themselves covering them up?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Obviously, we can appreciate all those countered by the argument that, well,
there is no expectation of privacy when you're walking around
out in the open in the world, and that is
true from a legal perspective as well.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
So I would say, real quick, there's a website called dflock.
People should go look into that. But yeah, in this case,
apparently it's it's dating. As Joe mentioned, their Dayton has
had some concerns about it. Apparently it says they were
deactivated after leaders learned they're used by police was not
within Commission approved guidelines. This has been another concern that's
come up where people that have access to these systems
(08:48):
are using them in ways that are unethical.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Ex girlfriends and wives. Yeah, okay, we had that come
up recently in terms of database searches cheez, that sort
of thing.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
But then apparently there were concerns that even after these
things were disabled, that they were somehow still recording again, Brian,
if something has a if something has a camera and
a microphone in it, unless it is turned off, and
even that nowadays, how can you know for sure if
you can't like take the battery out of something or
you know, that's one of the concerns. You know with
(09:23):
modern cell phones you used to be able to take
the battery out. Well, you can't take the battery out
there you press the button, it says it's turned off.
Is it really turned off? I don't mean to sound conspiratorial,
but can you really know why? It might not be
a bad idea to get yourself a Faraday cage bag,
wallet whatever that you can put the phone in. But anyhow,
you know, it says here. You know, despite city leaders
(09:44):
deactivating all the cameras across four neighborhoods, it didn't reassure everyone,
so they decided to cover the cameras, hoping it would
be a temporary fix. And then you know that goes
on to report that some reporters went out and you know,
saw the things covered. Two cameras along Xenia Avenue are
also bagged. The city s all thirty seven cameras are covered.
So it'll be interesting to see. You know, some cities
(10:04):
because of these privacy concerns and things like this, have
canceled their contracts taking these things out. It'll be interesting
to see where this goes, because truly most of the
press seems to be piling up on the negative side
of this at this time. So yeah, I'm not a fan,
but we won't be getting these in fort Right anytime soon.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Promise from the current mayor of or Right. Yes, don't
get Donald Trump on your bad side. You'll be primary.
Dave had It, We'll bring you back. Can you replace you?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
See the talk station.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Six fifty on a Friday, and Happy Friday to everybody.
Just get the pleasure and sometimes frightening reality. But Dave
had Or from interest it tells us it's Tech Friday
and pivoting over away from uh. You only have one
set of DNA and you can't change it. I guess
it's the same thing to say with fingerprints and Judguah
Poalatana brought this up when we were talking with him.
I guess it was on Wednesday. If you take a
(10:57):
picture of someone and you can see the finger print,
and those fingerprints can be recreated, which obviously raises some
massive security problems. Is that true, Dave Hatter?
Speaker 1 (11:08):
It is true, and it's been around for a long time.
But the point they're making now is that thanks to AI,
you can enhance the resolution of pictures. You know, So
let me take a step back, all the way back.
I believe it was twenty fourteen, and I think we
talked about this, Brian. There was someone who took a
picture of the then German guest Chancellor Prime Minister. I
(11:30):
can't remember what these folks titles are in Europe all
the time.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Union European Commissioned President Ursula vonder Leyan there you.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Go, took a picture of her finger and sort of
demonstrated this idea, right, and this has been done before.
The point they're making now is that, again, thanks to AI,
and thanks to the fact that people take lots of
selfies holding their fingers up and like the peace sign
or anything like that, you can take a picture, potentially
(11:58):
enhance it and the theoretically extract the fingerprints out of it. Again,
this idea isn't really new, but it's sort of been
an Internet panic. And you know, I kind of agree
with the premise of this CBS article. It is absolutely possible,
and I think this is yet another illustration of why
in today's digital world, where everything is digital, you need
to be thinking about these kind of things and be thinking, Okay,
(12:21):
how could something that I'm doing that you know twenty
thirty years ago would have been completely inocuous be used
against me? But I don't think the average person is
going to be attacked to this for two reasons. A,
it's going to take some work potentially to turn your
fingerprints into something usable and be In most cases, you
know your fingerprint comes in with a physical log in
(12:43):
where you have to touch something. So it's not like
the hackers could really use that potentially because you know
you have a fingerprint scanner some sort of biometric device,
you typically have to touch it. So unless as a
hacker I have physical access to your device, I'm not
going to be able to use that.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Okay, let me just throw something in there on the
tech round because you know, here's my mind thinking, well,
if you have the let's say quality image of a fingerprint,
clearly you can't use that to log in. But with
three D printers these days, I can see someone using
that as a templay to create a three D form
image that could be used.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
That's that's the potential. Most newer good biometric scanners also
do things like tests to see is there a heat there.
It's not just the image. There are some other tests
they perform to try to figure out is this actually
a human being touching this thing? But I guess my
bigger point is this is not something I would spend
a lot of time worrying about. But I also don't
(13:42):
take selfies holding up the peace sign. I'm not going
to show you my fingerprints if I can help. It
doesn't mean though that like for example, if you, you know,
you get out and speak at public events, you know,
could someone take a picture of you holding up your
hand just gesturing while you're talking. Happened potentially still, your fingerprints.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Happened all the I mean, I'm stealing my fingerprints is
one thing, But I mean, yeah, I've had my hand
up a gazillion times in pictures, right, so it happened.
I don't even think about something like that.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, And I guess that's my point. I think this
is not a giant risk to the average person, at
least not yet. Yeah, but I do think I do
think it's something worth thinking about. And again, if you're
out in public, if you're gesturing, if people are taking pictures,
you know, or if you're someone who just can't resist
the urge to take a selfie making the peace sign,
well turn your fingers the other direction, you know. I
(14:29):
hate that we're at a place where you have to
think about these kind of things. But the main defense
to this other than don't let people take pictures of you,
which is now impossible thanks to smart glasses and garbage
like that. You know, I can tell you, as someone
who does a lot of public speaking in the future, yes,
I will be trying to not show my fingerprints.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Well, let me ask you this, because the event was
out yesterday. Thank you to Dan Reaganold and Kevin Nichols
for providing some adult beverages. I did have a couple
of beers while I was there. It wouldn't have been
a lot easier. Or if someone really one of my
fingerprints had just pulled a beer bottle out of the
garbage can because I didn't have gloves on when I
was drinking like most people do.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Probably, but would your average you know the thing about
this right? Yes, I certainly. If you have forensics expertise,
you can go get the beer bottle, the coffee cup
or whatever dust it get the fingerprints off of it.
But you got to have some expertise in that area.
You got to have physical access to that stuff, versus
here's a person. You know. I think we've talked about
this North Korean hacker thing, and I have a story
(15:30):
I'll maybe we'll talk about next week. But my point is, if,
for example, you were a North Korean hacker and you
were working in a company and there was an employee
there and you want an access to their account, could
you find a picture of them and use their fingerprints
in the ways we've described here to get into their account. Maybe? Maybe, Again,
don't I don't think the average person needs to lose
(15:50):
sleep over this. But as technology improves, the resolution of
cameras continues to improve, AI continues to advance and be
able to take a sure enhance it, it's something to
at least think about, So I think it's worth warning folks. Again,
I'm not losing a lot of sleep over it, but
I can tell you I will not be waving my
hands around in a way where someone could easily capture
(16:12):
a picture of my fingerprints and use them for some
nefarious purpose.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
So what I'm hearing is don't worry about it. But
Dave is already worrying about it. That's what I'm hearing.
And Dave, you will be around when in the next
moment in the development of intelligence with computers and all
the like, when we should start worrying about it, and
you'll let us know the day that that happens.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Right, And yes, and you know, Brian, I am the
tinfoil hat guy, so I can't help it when I
see these things, It's like, well, that's potentially bad. So
it is.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
You know, Yes, some terrible things coming along with these,
with these improvements technologically, but also some wonderful things. That's
for us to balance the benefits and the wrist, which
is why we have Dave had or blessed interest It
sponsors this valuable segment every week. You'll be on next
week with the play You'll have the pleasure of Gary
Jeff Walker. I'll be off next week dealing with my
chemo aftermath and clearing my head up so I can
(17:01):
come back in a week and hopefully hit the ground running.
So I hope you enjoy talking to him. I will
obviously check out the podcast of that conversation and look
forward to talking with you in two weeks. Dave Hatter,
have a wonderful weekend and thank you for everything you
do for my listening audience.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah, always my pleasure. Brian, best of luck, say some
prayers for you. Thanks, look forward to talking to you
when he gets back.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I look forward to talking to you as I always do.
We'll see you then, don't go away after the top
of the hour news in honor of national donut
Brian Thomas News
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