TIPPER X INTERVIEW

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey pigs, Good morning, Hey Jens, I got to come
harden for you perfect all right, bringing ciminal over here.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
All right, Hey John with Quinn and tarn Albany. All right.

Speaker 3 (00:08):
Listen when Tom Hard, Hey Tom, When he landed a
coveted job as a Wall Street hedge fund analyst in
his late twenties, it appeared his career was just beginning.
But after a series of illegal trades, you brought the
attention of the FBI. Tom, you got busted, didn't you.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
I did. I did. There's no excuses. The book is
definitely not trying to whitewash the pass. I totally own it.
I was a young kid out of Georgia, middle class family,
worked my way into an ivy league college, ended my
dream job on Wall Street. By twenty nine, a's this
hedge fund, and I had the world, whole world in
front of me, the potential to make you know, millions
of dollars. But I also saw insider trading was rapidly

(00:47):
happening at this time during the financial crisis. You know,
it's not an excuse for what happened next with me,
tremendous pressure. I made four insider trades, very small trade well.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Tom, Yeah, and Tom, it was such a small amount.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Was it like a penny stock?

Speaker 1 (01:03):
And were you a licensed broker at the time, And
explain to me what what were you doing? Were you
going into an office or were you just trading?

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah? No, I was going into an office hedge fun analyst.
So basically what I would try to do is find
the best companies to own and the worst companies to
short or bet against. But these were such small trades
because I felt like I'll just play along and not
do it as bad as the other. As the other
guys were doing it, that doesn't matter if if you
cross that line, the FBI's going to get you. And
I learned that the hard way.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
So this infraction is a lesson led to Tom Harden
and his book is out today Wired on Wall Street.
You became tip or X, so you turn what like
an informant and you wear a wire And who were
you busting as tip or X?

Speaker 2 (01:45):
That's right. July of two thousand and eight. I'm leaving
my Manhattan apartment to drop off dry cleaning. I step
on the sidewalk and I hear my full name behind me?
Are you Thomas Kobe Harten? And the last time I
heard that was my mother back in Georgia about to
whip my bot. You know, wasn't It wasn't Mom. It
was a two two FBI agents and dark suits sit
down with us in a faster the restaurant. They said, hey, kid,

(02:07):
we think you can help us out build these cases.
I said, should I talked to a lawyer and the
FBI said, don't talk to the lawyer.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Did they?

Speaker 2 (02:14):
But for two years they hadn't.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Sorry, I was going to ask you, did they did
they catch you in the act or like I mean before,
I mean, did they catch you doing these specific things?
Were they watching you? Is I guess what I want
to know?

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, they were watching my trades? And uh. The woman
who was tipping me with the with the information had
met me for lunch a few months before and she
was asking me very specific questions. You know, Tom, these
were illegal trades, right, you know that? So she was
wired up on me, and so when they approached me,
they had me Oh man.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
So so you turn in, you turn informant. But who
do you like? Who's the biggest person you brought down
or that you can tell us.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
You brought down?

Speaker 2 (02:52):
So the biggest person that I was directionally related to
is the billionaire named Rod Roger Rothham, Sri Lanka billionaire. Okay,
And he went to prison for nine years. And the
other guy that they never got was Steve Cohen, who
was the owner of the Mets, and at that time
they were they just weren't able to build the case
against him.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
You were a wire. You were a wire around Cohen.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
No, but I was. I was one removed so some
of his guys. I did.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
But it's not coin wow, And yeah, I was gonna
say when you wore the wire, was it in person
the whole time all the time or were you over
the phone a lot doing it?

Speaker 2 (03:23):
It was over the phone, so it was a lot
harder and over the phone because you don't get the
body language and you lose half the communication, right if
you can't read the body language. But it was usually
in person. Second meeting was over the phone, and then
third Viete was back in person when I had their
trust and guys were onto me though you know, it's
a weird situation. Hey, nice to meet you. I'm Tom.

(03:44):
By the way, how do you commit securities for us?
Like it's note a great way to start a conversation
because I was very clumsy, and then I got gotted
if by just asking questions and then being silent saying nothing,
and then eventually they would say enough. The FBI would
just tell me, okay, on to the next one.

Speaker 3 (03:59):
Wow, bok wired on Wall Street out today it's we're
talking to Tom Harden turned covert informant as Tipper X. So, like,
how does it work? Do you have to keep your
job as a cover and you're working for the FBI?
Do they pay you? Do they pay you to?

Speaker 1 (04:14):
No?

Speaker 2 (04:14):
This is pro bo, no work. So I kept my job.
And it's crazy up as you know, it's the worst
stock market in two thousand seventy five years, the crisis nightmare.
And then for lunch, I'm going out to the Crown Vic.
You know, it's classic like you see on TV shows.
It's the Crown Vic they had with the tendate windows
sitting in the backseat and they stay next Target. And
it was always in the Starbucks. I think I mentioned

(04:34):
Starbucks a lot in the book. No no royalties, but
but we meet these guys face to face. And I
was just so clumsy when I started, and they'd listen
to these wires after and not at the same time,
and they say, Tom, you're doing a terrible job. I said, hey, guys,
it's my first time doing this, right, there was no
training in college. We're wearing a.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
Work are you Were you fearful or are you fearful
for your life?

Speaker 2 (04:56):
I was at the time. Tipper XY came out in
the Wall Street Journal in the fall of two thousand
and nine, like twenty guys wearing handcuffs that I recognized it,
and one name was not out there, and they called
the tip for X and I called the FBI. You know,
am I in danger? They said, no, you're fine. We'll
track down any people, any any situation where you feel
like you're in danger. But one of the craziest situations

(05:18):
in the middle of the book is a guy invited
me to dinner in Connecticut and he was high up
the FBI's list. He picked me up the train station
in Goring, Inch, Connecticut, and he said, Tom, good to
see you. I brought swim trumps for you. We're going
swimming at my mom's house and Sopranos has popper that summer.
All these ideas were going for my head and we

(05:40):
actually went swimming at this house and I was able
to get out of it, like, I went to the bathroom,
took the wire off, walked me to the school and
he grabbed it to this ball and he's like, I
got one question for you, Tom, And I was going
to give it up. I just want to go home.
I'm so scared. And he said, have you been approached
Tom by the SEC? And truthfully it was not the SEC,
it was the FBI. You're worrying a wire?

Speaker 3 (06:00):
Wow, you can't gone ful Donnie Brasco and beat the
crab out of them.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Oh, there was a hole there in the yard and
I thought, holy crap, is this for me? And I
thought there was jeezz dude.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
Wow. It sounds fascinating that the book is out Wired
on Wall Street and we've been to your website too.
What's your website?

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Tom?

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Zipper x dot com. US patent officers gave me the
trademark and zipper x so the FBI can have.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
No more congratulations Right on, Tom Harden, go check out
the book Wired on Wall Street. Fascinating man. Love to
have you on again.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Thanks to absolutely anytime. Guys, appreciate it. Take care,