Alexis Bloom & Svetlana Zill

Original Air Date: May 5, 2024

Alexis Bloom and Svetlana Zill are co-directors of the remarkable doc “Catching Fire: The Story of Anita Pallenburg”, who was best known as the mother of Keith Richards' children. Her life personified sex, drugs and rock and roll, with some tragedies resulting. With interviews with son Marlon and daughter Angela, you will feel like a fly on the wall with the home videos and more.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to Sunstein Sessions on iHeartRadio,Conversations about issues that matter. Here's your
host, three time Grasie Award winner, Shelley Sunstein. As you know,
I watch a lot of movies.I see an incredible number of documentaries,
and there is one that I justsaw that absolutely blew me away, and

(00:23):
it will blow you away. Youcan see it in theaters or it is
streaming. It is Catching Fire,the story of Anita Pallenberg and joining me
today the co directors Alexis Blumens Vetlanazil Now. For the younger end of
our audience who may not know whoAnita Pallenberg is, she was the first

(00:48):
iconic rock chick. Basically, shefirst had a romantic relationship with Brian Jones
of The Rolling Stone. She wasthe mother of the children of Keith Richards
and she even had a fling withMick Jagger when they were shooting a movie

(01:10):
together, which I think was Mix'sfirst movie. And you've heard the phrase
sex, drugs and rock and roll, and that was Anita Pallenberg. But
she was more than that. Andwe're not just talking about the glamor of
the phrase sex, drugs and rockand roll. But the tragedy of that

(01:30):
phrase. She started as a model, and she was both Italian and of
German descent, and then she movedinto acting after she had moved to New
York, getting away from her family, just she wanted to live a different

(01:52):
life on her own terms, andoh my god, did she ever.
So first of all, Alexis endsVeetlana. This was an incredible movie with
amazing footage and interviews. How didit all come about? It came about
very organically, I'd say, likeall really good creative projects, do you

(02:15):
know, through word of mouth andpeople and kismet. Marlon Richards, her
son with Keith Richards, approached myselforiginally because we had friends in common and
he had found the pages of Anita'smemoir Unfinished Memoir, and it occurred to

(02:38):
him that someone should make a documentaryfilm about his mum. He actually said
in our first conversation, everyone alwaystalks about my dad and my mom is
the was the really interesting one.And then we I got to hang out
with him, and I brought Svetlanain very early and she met with him

(03:01):
too, and we sort of developeda conversation over a number of weeks and
kind of a level of trust.We had to know that we could fund
this film because she's not a householdname, and he had to know that
he could trust us. And that'show it happened. And it took years

(03:23):
to make it. How many yearsthere was COVID in there, so I
guess like four years, four yearsincluding COVID. You know, some of
the footage was so amazing, andI guess that that came from Marlon and
also Eith and Anita's daughter Angela,who, of course we first knew was

(03:46):
dandeliin but it was Dandeline Angela.But you actually feel like you're a fly
on the wall and you're watching someof the most intimate parts of their lives.
Y. Yeah, it's incredible.There's Super eight home movie footage that
Marlon had given us that had beenjust in Anita's archive for many years,

(04:10):
that had never been seen before.Most of it had never been seen before,
and it is just this incredible,experiential, atmospheric footage of you know,
Keith and Anita and Mick passing backand forth these couple of Super eight
cameras during their travels in the latesixties and early seventies. So you know,
we knew we had that footage tostart with, and then also the

(04:30):
pages of the unpublished memoir that Marlonhad found after Anita died, and so
we knew we had, you know, pretty incredible access to material to start
with as the foundation of the film. By the way, is that going
to be published at all? Doyou know? Is Marlon going to publish
it? We don't. I'm notsure that it will be published. You

(04:51):
know, it's really it's not wesay unpublished memoir, but really it's drafts
and notes towards a memoir. There'schapters, it's very fragmentary, so you
know there's a chance he might publishit in some form, but it's not
as though there's a book that's readyto be published that's sitting there finished.
I am speaking with Alexus Bloom andSvetlana Zil. They are the co directors

(05:15):
of Catching Fire, the story ofAnita Pallenberg, the mother of Keith Richards's
children. She first had a romanticrelationship with Brian Jones, kind of her
doppel ganger, and she even hada little fling with Mick Jagger when they
were shooting a movie together. Therewere two things in the movie. Two

(05:42):
scenes that took my breath away.First, was both both Anita and Keith
struggled with addiction issues, and whileshe was in the throes of addiction and
he was out on the road,and she became a mom for the third
time and kind of left on herown and really without a support system.

(06:05):
Tragically that that son died apparently ofsudden infant death syndrome. But her words
in her book, by the way, the words were we hear are from
Scarlett Johanson. She provided the voice. She provided Anita Pallenberg's voice, but

(06:27):
after losing her third child, andshe loved being a mother and was by
most accounts a very good mother asbest she could in the throes of addiction.
But she blamed you know, shewondered, if I was more together,
could I have saved my son?Okay, that was one thing.
But then watching Keith Richards on stageafter just learning that his son died and

(06:54):
the Rolling Stones the other members areleading with him, don't perform tonight.
You can't just lost your son andyou see him like expressionless performing that footage
was like I said, chills beyondchills that came from Marlin No that that

(07:15):
footage didn't come from Marlin. Thatwas footage that we researched independent. There
was actually a French filmmaker who hadbeen at that concert that night. So
we just we lined up the dates, you know, we knew what had
happened, and then we looked forthat concert that he'd performed that night,
so we got it independently. Marlinwas a kid at the time, so

(07:40):
uh yeah, he was. Hewas. He was with his dad actually,
and he remembers, he remembers allof that happening. But I don't
know. I don't know whether it'sexpressionless honestly, Susan, it's sort of
he's in a zone, right,He's playing the guitar and he's in a
zone. It was his way ofdealing with it. You know. We

(08:05):
would all deal with some tragedy likethat in different ways, right would probably
rush home, you know, buta musician whose creative outlets and whose therapy
is his guitar might do it differently. You just you you're not there at

(08:26):
the time. You Everyone is alsovery up on drug excuse my French,
sorry, very messed up on drugs, and you know it's hard. I
don't want to judge. Yeah,I think we made the film without as
much as possible, without leading withjudgment, but trying to lead. Yeah.

(08:48):
Yeah, And a lot of peopleare shocked by that because the you
know, quotes unquote appropriate reaction wouldbe to go home. But then we've
spoken to other people who've said,listen, that's his safety space the stage,
which also says a lot, rightright, and how hard it is
to be family, Yeah, andwhat your center of gravity is in you

(09:09):
know, in music and family andright right. It was just it was
just surprising. And did you knowthat that footage existed? No, no,
we didn't know that it existed.Now did you find this guy who
had it the powers of archival researchand stick to itivet Yeah, I mean

(09:31):
you know that there's a lot offootage that you know that there's the beautiful
Super eight footage that that Marlin gaveus for the film, and there's all
those wonderful family photographs, but there'sa lot of other footage that was sourced
independently from from different from third parties, from different archival houses. Yeah.
Sorry, By the way, didMarlon and Angela have the final did they

(09:54):
have the final say on the onthe film where they no, no,
not at no, no. Idon't think we would have done it in
that case put real bind as afilmmaker, and they weren't interested in it.
They were very trusting and they wantedsomebody to have the freedom to make

(10:16):
the film they wanted to make.You know, it didn't mean that we
didn't show it to them before itwas finished. We did, but at
a very late stage they were verygenerous, very generous. The other shocking
scene in the film, we're hearingMarlon's words. He's coming home from I
think the last day at school,and he and his mom were living in

(10:37):
a remote place, I think inupstate New York, and his mom was
having a fling with a much youngerman I think, who had done work
at the house. And he hearsa gunshot and he runs up the stairs
and his mom had been watching TheDeer Hunter with this this young man,

(11:01):
and there's a scene of Russian Roulettein The Deer Hunter, and he just
decided on a whim to do theRussian Roulette thing, and he lost his
life and his mom was jailed fora little while. And I mean the
scars, I mean, I'm justthinking of this hid like, how can

(11:24):
he possibly be so together as anadult? And I guess part of that
came from his mom, Anita Pallenberg. So what was your take on all
this? I mean, it wasjust so shocking. I didn't know about
it. It is it's I know, it's a very New York story too.
I feel like they're the only peoplethat I had known that story.

(11:46):
I feel like we're people that I'vegrown up with here that we're familiar with
it. But it's a massive tragedyand there were several, you know,
as you said, you know,awful tragedies that Marlon had to face as
a very young child. But Ithink, you know, Anita was a
complicated person and maybe not the bestmother and maybe didn't make the best choices,

(12:07):
but very much loved her kids andloved being a mom. And I
don't know Marlon talks about there wasno question that he he always felt loved
no matter what the circumstance, nomatter where they were in the world.
You know, they moved dozens oftimes, and you know, in just
a few years they were they livedof obviously very you know, unstable,

(12:33):
kind of wild lifestyle, but withOhemian bohemian lifestyle that you know, and
from both of his parents. Healways knew he was loved and I think
that is a big part of youknow, him, him becoming the person
he is today. And how doeshe do today? He does all sorts
of things. I mean, he'sraised three kids of his own, lives

(12:56):
in the countryside in England. Isan incredible cook. I mean the best
cook will go, you know,to the fishermen and get all the oysters
and sort of shuck them himselves andmake you know, salad with vegetables they've
grown in the garden. He wasa graphic designer by profession, but you

(13:18):
know, and he's very creative,and you know, did a magazine at
one at one point. But thatall of those things are sort of less
remarkable than the actual person he's become, which is this, you know,
very stable, loving, incredibly wellread, literate, educated person because I

(13:39):
mean he didn't go to school tillhe was nine, you know, and
he I think like a lot ofI mean I've seen this before. I
know, I know a couple ofpeople in New York who didn't finish school
and were like dragged up, notbrought up. They were like dragged up
and they took it upon themselves toeducate themselves. So he's like self educated,
you know, self taught, andyou know it's been married to the

(14:01):
same woman for whatever twenty five years, so he's like, he's not that,
you know, he became sort ofthe opposite. Yes, yes,
he great, very stable home lifefor himself. Yeah, and the kid
and his kids. It's okay,I'm sorry, we are out of time.
I'm telling you if you must seethis movie. It captures a certain

(14:24):
period of time and people that youknow, we read about, we see,
but this is a very intimate lookinto the lives of the Rolling Stones
and in particular Anita Pallenberg. Andit's Catching Fire, the Story of Anita
Pallenberg. You can see it inlimited theaters, but is also streaming and

(14:46):
I highly recommend it. You've beenlistening to Sunsteen sessions on iHeartRadio, a
production of New York's classic rock Qone oh four point three