03-21-25 *INTERVIEW* Remembering East High Shooting w/ Liz Curran & Collinus Newsome with Jimmy

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
As I'm joined here in studio for a reflection on
a terrible incident that happened two years ago tomorrow, back
on March twenty second, twenty twenty three, at East High School,
when a seventeen year old student brought a gun to

(00:20):
school and during what was astonishing to say the words,
a routine pat down, he shot two deans who were
seriously injured. Thankfully they both survived, but later that day
Austin Lyle would take his own life. The next day,

(00:42):
the school board went into an the legal executive session,
and the recording was released. And that's part of this narrative,
this whole story of what happened, because it gets to
the heart of a failure from the school district both
to prevent an atrocity like this from happening and also
a failure to address it seriously afterwards. I'm joined here

(01:07):
in studio by Liz Current, who is a counselor former
counselor at East High School who was there that day
in twenty twenty three, and Kaleinis Newsome, a longtime educator
with a really extensive resume in education and whose brother
Wayde Mason was one of the two deans who were
shot that day. Ladies, welcome to the program. It's good

(01:29):
to have you here on KOA.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Thanks for having us, Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Thank you. Liz. I would like to start with you.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Talk to us for a moment about what happened that
day from your experience, because you were I think the
third to go into the room after it happened.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
Walk us through that day a little bit.

Speaker 4 (01:48):
Yeah, So March twenty second was a regular school day,
minus the fact that our school just experienced the tragic
loss of a student, Louis Garcia a few weeks prior.
So we're having a large school assembly with a heaviness
in the air, just knowing that we'd just come through
that loss and a student. I was in the back
of the auditorium and a student ran up to me

(02:09):
and whispered, there was just a shooting, and so I
just assumed it was a shooting outside of the school.
I grabbed my radio and I ran to the front
of the school, and I found in the front hallway
by the dean's office. One of my coworkers had ran
out of the dean's office through.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
His radio against the lockers. The radio shattered.

Speaker 4 (02:27):
He made this visceral sound and I just knew something
terrible had happened.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
And I ran up to him and said, what just happened?

Speaker 4 (02:33):
And he said Eric and Wayne were just shot, and
I was dumbfounded, and he said the student that shot
them had ran out of the school. So I just
assumed we had to run into that office and called
nine one one, And by the grace of God, that day,
before the shooting had ever happened, one of our students
was experiencing an allergic reaction. Paramedics were already at our

(02:53):
school that day giving her medical support, and in the
room that the shooting had happened in the next wall
over was our school nurse, our athletic trainer, and two
Denver Health paramedics helping that student. So within a matter
of I think a minute, they had ran into the
office and applied medical attention to both both of the
deans that were shot, and I ran in and just

(03:16):
didn't have to call nine with one because they were
already there. Essentially just helped, you know, opening gauze packages,
just helping, helping, helping, helping keep one of the dean's calm,
the one that was more severely shot, just keeping him calm.
And then Colinus's brother was holding his hand and he
was praying out loud, and the next thing you know,

(03:37):
more paramedics arrived. We were throwing furniture out of the
room to get stretchers in and out of that office,
and all of a sudden they were gone. They were
taken to Denver Health. And I looked over and I
saw that student that had been there having the allergic reaction,
and she looked at me and I looked at her,
and we just held hands and like, what the hell
did we just witness? It was literally the moment where

(03:58):
I thought, I thought one of the deans, I thought
it was his last moments on this earth. I thought
he was going to die. And I sat with her,
and then the paramedics came and took her to the
hospital to get support. And then I looked around and
the school's on lockdown. I don't recognize anybody. I don't
see anybody that I know. And I happened to see
a Denver police officer and she looked at me and

(04:19):
I said, I've got to get out of this building.
I got to get to Denver heelp. Those are two
of my closest friends. I need to make sure that
they're okay, and so she said, I will stay with
you until you get to the hospital, but we have
to take you down for questioning.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
So me and my co.

Speaker 4 (04:32):
Worker went down to the police station and we were questioned,
and then they took us to the hospital where we
were able to make sure that our co workers were okay.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
And that's where I met Colinas for the first time.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
Colenus, I'll bring you in.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Where were you when you learned about this and that
your brother had been one of the deans who was shot,
and just sort of walk for us through your own
experience that day in March twenty second, twenty twenty.

Speaker 5 (04:59):
Three, I was at home with my mother, was on
spring break and.

Speaker 3 (05:06):
You know, just hanging out in my room.

Speaker 5 (05:07):
Doing all the crazy stuff that people do on spring break.
Was asleep, and uh, she came up to me and
she said, I, you know, the hospital called and said
you know Wayne, you know Wayne was shot. Your brother
was shot. And I didn't believe her at first. I
was like, no, that didn't happen, and she said it again.
And we went to the hospital and uh, you know,

(05:30):
she's older, and we were walking very slow. We got
to uh an area where where emergency services are and
were led back and I happened to have a good
friend of mine who is a chief communications officer at
the hospital, and she's like, oh my god, like I
knew it, and she she walked us back to where

(05:52):
Wayne was and I got my mom settled, and uh,
he was there and he was bleeding and he had
a smile on his face and he said he's okay.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Wow. And for both of you, Liz Curran and colleenas Newsome,
I want to ask about how you look at that
day in terms of what brought it about, how that
took place that you could even get to this point
where there would be a shooting from a student on

(06:24):
two faculty members or anybody who's there.

Speaker 4 (06:28):
I would say epic failure on the parts of the
leadership team of Denver Republic Schools.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yeah. I couldn't agree more in what respect?

Speaker 4 (06:36):
How so the student and you know, we lost a
student that day as well, like our our job is
to support students, we lost a student that day and
the system failed him. He came into the Denver Public
school system being expelled from a local school district, and
the superintendent approved him to come into a large traditional
high school and put lives at risk.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
And Liz, I should add and be very clear that
in this case, you had this student previously expelled from
Cherry Creek schools and had ended up in Denver public
schools despite objections to doing so. Yeah, Cleliness, how do
you look at how it led up to this, especially

(07:19):
given when I just said that this was a student
who had been expelled for I think it was weapons
charges if I recalled correctly.

Speaker 5 (07:25):
Yeah, I mean, you know, as an educator, you are
always sort of, you know, on high alert for what
happens in the school. And I think in this moment
that I don't know if I would call it an
epic failure, but that there were lots of things that
had to occur in order for this to happen.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
And from that perspective, there were balls drop.

Speaker 5 (07:48):
There are all sorts of things that you know, this
sort of happened not only on this day, but when
Luis Gushia was also shot. Like's there are just things
that have to happen. And I think that DPS is
taken for granted. You know that they have to see
these systems in place when they actually don't.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, And that's one of the things that really got
parents upset to speak out. And then there were some
school board changes that happened in the twenty twenty three elections.
But one of the things was this revelation that whether
it's mccauliffe, the basically middle school in Denver Public Schools,

(08:27):
where the principal there, Kur Dennis, had said, Hey, I
don't want this violent student who's been charged with attempted
murder to be on school grounds. There are other options
for this student. Can't we pursue other options? Heck, during COVID,
it was good enough for everybody to have online remote learning.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
Why not do something like this?

Speaker 1 (08:47):
And yet the superintendent, doctor Alex Morero, was insistent, even
wrote an op ed in the Denver Post defending the
approach of allowing these violent students accused of very serious
crimes like this to attend class with other students, putting
not only other students and staff at risk, but themselves too.

(09:10):
So when you look at the last two years in
sort of the what has happened since then, how do
you view the changes? Has there been much that has
changed or is it that there's much to be done?

Speaker 2 (09:25):
I would say I'm dumbfounded.

Speaker 4 (09:27):
That we had a situation where two staff members are
severely with the rest of their lives injured, right living
with injuries. Why was there never a Dune Republic School investigation.
I was one of the fourth person from DPS in
the school in the office that day. Why have I
never been questioned by Denver Public Schools? Why they never
asked me what I saw? Why have they never asked

(09:49):
you know, other people that were involved.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
With this courage. I want to make this very clear.
You were a counselor at East High School, You were
there that day, you were third into the room after
the shooting, and you have not been asked by Denver
Public Schools as part of any sort of internal and
investigation to understand what happened?

Speaker 3 (10:08):
Correct, Colin is how does that? How does how's that?

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Even the thing that they they're not asking people who
were there. Okay, there's a police investigation, sure that's important,
But what about internally and to understand what went wrong?

Speaker 3 (10:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (10:22):
I mean I think that when I talked with Deputy
Superintendent Smith that one of the things we talked about was,
you know, sort of in you know, broadly, how we
support students across the board, and it was a really
great conversation, and then at the end I sort of said, like,

(10:43):
you know, have you had an invest investigation specifically on
that day?

Speaker 3 (10:48):
And he was like, we you know, we did what
we made.

Speaker 5 (10:50):
We made our promise, right, And I think for me
it was really it really wasn't that it was actually
a school a districtwide safety evaluation that then I think
elevated like gaps in the in the system more so
from a technology perspective. And I think that was sort
of the moment where I realized that they didn't actually

(11:13):
do an investigation. And part of what came out of
that day was sort of the or that report was
around black boys being overrepresented in our disciplinary practices and
so that's kind of where the matrix was built around.
But nothing about how we keep kids more broadly safe

(11:34):
and what and what that day.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
What they learned that day, nothing, no reference to it
that's current and Kalinis knew some joining us here in
studio and kalenis, I just want to be clear for
folks listening when you mentioned matrix, there's something called the
discipline matrix.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
They revised it.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
I think it's woefully inadequate still as it is in
terms of revisions, but the discipline matrix lays out here
are the different consequences that you can do if you
even have the latitude for a suspension or an expulsion,
let alone whether it's required, and ranging from everything from
being disobedient in class onto bringing a gun to school

(12:13):
or being charged with something in some cases. And yet
what we have seen over time has been a complete
breakdown in discipline. I mean, I've talked, I know you
both have an experienced that the educators that have told me, look,
what is happening in our classrooms. The dysfunction is astonishing,
especially because we are not allowed to really do much

(12:34):
of anything about it. And I've had teachers reach out
to me, out to me since that discipline Matrix revision
saying this is still not enough, and we don't have
that kind of latitude. And you'd think in the wake
of what we learned and the different multiple shootings that
you were talking about Luis Garcia and what happened in

(12:56):
February of twenty twenty three outside the school to this
and so many other incidents, you would think that there
would be a seriousness, But that that has.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
Been lacking, hasn't it. I think so.

Speaker 5 (13:08):
And I think I wrote about it in Borgha that
sort of said like like consequences need to be predictable,
that that's part of what happened that day that or
in general with that matrix. And so I challenged, you know,
Deborah Staton, who is the chief of staff, like you
take this back and you rework it because it's not
it's not gonna work.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
And I think that's what educators want.

Speaker 5 (13:32):
And there was a sort of addition of two additional
tears that still are not enough that they it doesn't
actually talk about how you support students who've had experiences
in law, you know, being held for murder, different as
you know, all of those things that really keep our
kids safe, but more importantly that kids safe too.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yeah, let's your thoughts, Lis Curtin.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, I think you know we prior schools.

Speaker 4 (13:58):
We look at data, right, we look data for every
single aspect of a student's day.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
We know what we have the kids that are bringing
weapons to school.

Speaker 4 (14:06):
We know we have kids that are involved with situations
whether they're outside of school instead, you know, we have
kids that have charges against them. Why are we not
supporting these kids too? And why is it at the
expense of a comprehensive high school of twenty five hundred kids.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
Why is there not an online option? Why is there not.

Speaker 4 (14:22):
A school that's teaching these kids how to have some
you know, self regulation, emotional regulation. These kids are crying
for help and we're doing nothing to help them.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
As a counselor, Liz current from your perspective, how does
that impact kids' long term in terms of the lessons
for how to live a good life and to be
successful when you don't have that kind of influence from
the school saying look, we are going to enforce discipline,
not go overboard, because there have been concerns about going

(14:52):
overboard in many circumstances, valid, but just providing that sense
of Okay, we're going to guide you how to be appropriate,
and if you're going to bring a gun to school,
you're going to be charged with attempted there's gonna be
consequences for you.

Speaker 4 (15:07):
I think it's really getting to know each student's need, right,
Like they're bringing a weapon for some reason, what's that reason?
How can we support them so that maybe they have
a different option, Maybe it doesn't have to be a weapon, right,
But teaching them skills that they can help become a
functioning member in society.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, Coaleenus, Knewsome and Liz Current joining us here in studio.
We've got just a handful of minutes left. A few
things I want to wind down with in our conversation.
One I want to ask you, Kaleinis. Your brother, Wayne
Mason was one of the two deans who was shot,

(15:45):
Eric Sinclair the other.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
How's Wayne doing? I think he's doing his best. He's
a man of faith.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
He is someone that you know, really sort of wraps
his life around this in and you know, God's presence
has given everyone the strength to face adversity in this
movement and we keep moving forward with hope. Resilience for
Wayne isn't just about recovery. It's about trusting God through
every challenge. It builds, you know, inner peace and joy,

(16:19):
and he truly lives out Micah six' eight resilience.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
Talk to me about that word for a moment, because
that's something that not only would apply and wonderfully stated
by you just now to your brother, but also to
the community in Denver that has just been through so
much in and out of schools. When we talk about
the violence and what have you yeah.

Speaker 5 (16:41):
I mean, I think there's a collective trauma based on
COVID nineteen that we haven't really wrestled with. And so
when we talk about resiliency, it really is, you know,
three things that I think about, determination, self worth, and kindness.
And when you're able to ground yourself in those things,
whether it's in therapy, you know, with God's promise to us,

(17:02):
it really does sort of change the nature of of
how we move past things like that. And so I
just encourage kindness all the time. That's a huge part
of our well being as current.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
You had made mention of forgiveness as being something that's
an important lesson here, especially when there's so much frustration,
there's so much failure that has continued. Why does that
word resonate powerfully for this particular circumstance to you.

Speaker 4 (17:30):
I think that day, people that I expected to be
there for me personally and have my back just did
not show up for me. That I can turn the
narrative and look at the positive and look at the
relationships I gained from that day and then being in
touch with this nonprofit in Buffalo, Texas called Bella's Buddies
and they raise golden retriever puppies and they donate them

(17:52):
back to schools that have been experiencing school shootings, and
they can donate them to.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
The survivors of the school she as well. So being
able to.

Speaker 4 (18:01):
Witness that firsthand and how changing is changing lives. I'd
rather focus on the positive and the people that are adding,
you know, and not carry on this negative feeling towards people.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
I think that's very well said. However, I still have
to ask a question. I just before the break or
before in the last segment, talked about a report from
Board Hawk, which you'd mentioned before. Colleenus you had written
a fabulous piece on the discipline matrix and failures of
school safety in Denver public schools. There is talk now

(18:32):
of the possibility that Superintendent Alex Morrero may get his
contract extended. It expires in I think June or so
of next year of twenty twenty six. They went into
executive session the other night last night rather on this,
or at least what appears to be relative to that,
and whether it's academic failures to school safety failures.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
I just can't understand why they would do that. What
do you think, colenus News?

Speaker 5 (18:58):
I mean, I just think it's a terrible shit of
leadership for from our board and that they're not actually
grounding themselves in a way that is really thoughtful about children.
I think the other part of this is that Madam Principal,
who she she likes to refer to herself that way,
so I want everyone to know, was just named principal

(19:19):
of a year and you know one of the things
she did that day show up late, but she also
handed Wayne his waki taki saying I look forward to
seeing you the next day. And it was a system
Principal Sean Anderson that pulled me away.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
But this is Madam Principal. This is someone who gets
the principal of the high school. Madam Principle is current.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
A final word, we're just a bad at a time.
What would you like to share with folks right now?

Speaker 4 (19:49):
I think you know educators have a lot on their
plate right now, and just support your educators. Weren't it
because we care about kids, we care about our future,
and we don't get paid enough, obviously, but we're not
in it for the money. We're in it to to
make really good change for our students.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
Coleenus knew some My final word as well.

Speaker 5 (20:04):
You know, I think that's true, and it makes me
a little bit emotional that all of our kids, every
single one of them need to have their emotional well
being means met as the building, you know, the folks
that are with them every day. And so I just
hope that, you know, if if Alex receives an extension,
that there's some real challenge to him, and I want

(20:28):
him to stop doing the hook baby. You know babies
greats that he does. Yeah, so I need him to
stop doing that.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
I think that's well said, and I would just say
flat out they should not go ahead with this extension,
and if they do, then you could certainly read my
columns in the Denver Gazette about that. But Liz Current
and coleenus knew some of my best to Wayne as
well as Eric, please extend that they are tremendous. I

(20:56):
have not met them, but they clearly are tremendous men,
and I just feel for them very deeply, and for
the whole community at East and beyond in Denver Public schools.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
We have to run to our break.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
But you're both courageous for speaking out today, and I'm
grateful for you joining us two years almost of the
day after what happened at East High School.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
Thank you, thank you Jem, thank you both