The Troubleshooter 05-28-26

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ripped up bad news needed by, so you don't have.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Come running SHOs.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
As fast as we can shoot is gonna help coming man.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
This is the Troubleshooter Show. No Tom Martino.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hello, I'm Tom Martino. This is the longest running radio
show on the air with the same host and currently
on the air, So welcome. I'm going forty five years
in Denver and then if you count outside of Denver's
fifty years, but the longest running continuous radio show with
the same host still on the air. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.

(00:41):
Some of my compadres are off today, Major Mark Major
is taking some time off with his lovely wife sus
and we have back at the studio. I believe, Deputy Doc,
we're holding it down, and Deputy bo I thank you
guys very much for being there. We have retired hired
people who give up their time and energy to solve

(01:04):
problems and help us answer questions and take complaints. I
have a special guest today and he's Dan McKenzie Mackenzie Law.
Now he does wills and trusts and estate planning in general.
You know, state planning is weird. I kept putting it
off and putting it off, and putting it off. Then

(01:25):
I had about with cancer last year and I thought, well, geez,
maybe I shouldn't put it off any longer. And I
went to visit his people, and I have some things
that I'm doing. I have a checklist I'm doing. You know,
some estates are more complicated than others. And you know,
I think people in life have three major phases, and
I think the first phase is launching. That's where you

(01:49):
get everything in order. You know, I'm going to work here,
maybe I'm going to do this here, maybe I'm going
to do this. I'm gonna do that, and you have
your launch pad, and then you have your growth or
accumulation period. You buy things. I always wanted this. I
wanted a motorcycle, a boat, an RV, a big house, horses, cars, planes, boats,

(02:09):
I said boats. Anyway, Then you have the shedding period
where you start getting rid of things. Like I'm looking
over at my giant drum set over there, neil Pert style,
and I'm thinking, why don't have those drums? Now? There
was a time when I was putting them together. I
couldn't wait to get another one to add to it.
And now you look at it. It's funny as you
grow older, you look at things as now, how do

(02:31):
I get rid of this stuff? Now? I don't mean like,
I don't mean to be morbid or anything. I'm talking
about the shedding stage where actually ownership is not desired.
I'm in a point now where I'm anti materialism, where
I don't want to own a lot of stuff. I
like doing stuff, I like staying busy, but I don't
like owning a lot of stuff. I feel like it's

(02:52):
weighing me down. And it's not just because of my
sudden bout with cancer or any of that I'm talking about.
In all of us go through these stages. We launch,
and we then accumulate, and then we shed. And it's
not shedding because necessarily we have to shed. It's just

(03:12):
that you just it almost seems like you don't have
time to do everything you want. So I'd like to
know what stage you're in. Are you accumulating, are you shedding?
Why are you shedding? Or what do you want to accumulate?
It's weird. As I said, a lot of people get
to a point where they're just happy. I am just
happy and satisfied with life. I don't need more things,

(03:36):
more material things, but there was a time, I swear
to God, and I'm admitting all of this straight up.
I was so materialistic. Now, I of course said I
was not materialistic, but I was materialistic. And I'm not,
by the way saying it's wrong if you're materialistic, if
you want to own a bunch of stuff, the best
everything could do. I mean, there was a time when

(04:00):
it really really mattered to me what kind of car
I drove. It really really really mattered. Now I'm not
talking about for transportation or mission, like you know, a
truck for work or a car just to get places.
I'm talking about just the kind of car. It said
something about me, or at least I thought it did.

(04:23):
And I remember getting fancy cars thinking, man, this is
really something. Isn't that weird? And I want to know
what do you put value in? Dan McKenzie with McKenzie
Law does a state planning. I'll bet you he can
tell us a lot about what people put value in.

Speaker 4 (04:43):
Dan.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Do you typically see people in the way you should
see them in their mid thirties and they're planning for
their family and then later on changing or do you wait?
Do you mostly see people who wait too long to
be honest. I mean, of course you're gonna be honest,
But I mean, don't you have more late comers than
early comers? What do you say?

Speaker 5 (05:04):
Yeah, yeah, i'd said there's three fab that lines up
with your three phases. Actually, so yeah, So you have
the thirty to thirty five year old whore having babies,
you have this, that's.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
When they start thinking, but they have a family. Isn't
that when they start thinking about you? Yes?

Speaker 5 (05:17):
Okay, then what And then probably sixty to sixty five
year olds who are dealing with plans that still name
guardians for kids who are now in their thirties, right,
so we're going to update those. And then yes, you
got the elderly people or we're dealing with the state
administration for people who passed away, And frankly, on your
you know, accumulation stage and shedding stage, it's like, I

(05:38):
wish more people would shed because, frankly, when we hear
about people passing away in a house they've owned for decades, they.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
Don't always a motuation, they don't always get the most
of their estate if they keep everything to death.

Speaker 5 (05:51):
It's like it's so hard for the family. Like that's
one of the hardest parts of the stay administration's getting
rid of all the accumulative stuff. I mean, I've had
sixty five year old administrators going into their parents' basement
and finding hair from their first haircut. You know, Oh
my god, that hair has been sitting down there for
almost seventy years now.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
And it's like no, no, people, wait, And I think
what you said is pretty accurate. By the way, let
me give out the number if you want to talk
to Dan mackenzie about a will, about a trust, about
any of the estate planning, or you want to talk
to me or our deputies about problems, questions, complaints, just anything. Okay,
this is not AI. This is real stuff here, our

(06:33):
I real intelligence. And it is the radio show where
you can talk about everything. And we don't really discuss
politics and religion. And when I say that, I mean
that as trying to pontificate or to tell you how
to think or what to think or why to think.
And I don't care if you're a Republican or Democrat.
I really don't. I observations about the economy as it

(06:57):
stands and how it relates to people or certain things
and how it relates to people. But I think this
show is more of a unifying unifying factor than any
other show on the air, because I think not I
think I know. No one wants to be cheated. Think

(07:20):
about that. No one and everyone wants to make smart decisions. See,
it doesn't matter if you're conservative, if you're liberal, if
you're in between. It doesn't matter what faith you are.
No one wants someone who takes money up front, for example,

(07:40):
and does nothing, or they lie to you, or you
buy a terrible product. Now I got a text saying, Tom,
I noticed a few times over the last few weeks,
you've been telling people how you can help them. Yeah,
I have, because in some cases it's too late to
help you, and I'd rather tell the truth. So the

(08:03):
one calling me I may not be able to help,
but there might be hundreds of other people about to
embark onto a similar platform, make a similar transaction, and
maybe I can save them. Maybe I can save them.
Dan mackenzie again, let's get back to him. You have

(08:26):
people coming to you first when they have kids, that's
when they start thinking about it. So if I put
together a plan and my kids are babies and I
have guardians, or I have this, I have that. When
how often do you have to change the damn thing.
I mean, how many trips if you the ideal candidate,
the ideal client, how many trips to you do they

(08:46):
make the first one? Then?

Speaker 6 (08:48):
What?

Speaker 7 (08:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (08:50):
I mean as far as like how I'm like, okay.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
We come in our mid thirties, we're married and have kids. Yeah,
when do I come back?

Speaker 5 (08:58):
I usually tie to life events necessarily to time, So
usually at birth or death in your close orbit, or
a marriage change of some sort.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
When the kids become no longer minors that mean something, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (09:10):
Yeah for sure. Yeah, when you don't need guardians anymore,
that's right something.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
And yeah, if you change in wealth status.

Speaker 5 (09:19):
Yes, major change in assets for sure. So if they're
inheriting things like that's a good time.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
That's often Then somebody said they ready, I got a
text I pulled out. It didn't come in today, but I,
as you know, I put stuff away for when my
guests come. And this came in a few weeks ago, saying,
and I'm going to paraphrase it, my wife inherited something,
and it was specifically mentioned in the will that she

(09:44):
have it for her, not for me and her. So
if the wife inherits something, it doesn't matter what that
other guy's will, her father's will says. Does it it
automatically is marital property?

Speaker 6 (09:54):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Or no?

Speaker 2 (09:55):
No?

Speaker 5 (09:56):
Inheritance is usually if it is kept separate, is separate property.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
So if I leave something to my daughter and my
daughter is married, I don't have to spell? Can I
do I have to specifie for her only and not
for her spouse? Or how does that work? Is it
automatically marital property? What if I don't say anything? She
just inherits stuff? Is it hers? Or is it marital?

Speaker 5 (10:20):
It depends on what she does with it. If she
puts it in a joint account, then it's married.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
But can she not put it in a joints account?
What if it goes up in value during the marriage.

Speaker 5 (10:28):
Yeah, the increase in value is probably marital.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Right, we're going to take a break. I'm Tom Martino.
Any calls you have, give us a call, right, I
mean I should say at this number, three oh three
Martino three oh three six two seven eight four sixty six.
Let me mention something about that phone number. It comes
right to the studio right now to go on the air.
If you call before or after the show, it goes
to our voicemail or our office where we will we

(10:54):
pledge to call you back three to zero three Martino
three three six, two seven eight four sixty six. Don't
just go on next door and Facebook, marketplays and all
these other social media morons. Come to us for real help,
for real problems. And speaking of real problems, let's talk

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(12:04):
now three all three, seven, seven to one help. You'll
think you're his only customer when you choose Frank durand
the Real Estate Man dot com to list your home
with Remax Alliance three all three nine two zero sixteen
twenty two. Hi Tom Martino, you're a troubleshooter. By the way,
if you're listening to YouTube, you might hear Deputy Doc

(12:26):
and his personal conversations live over our stream, along with
anything he's talking about. We yeah, we've tried to tell
him not to do that, but so if you hear
his credit card number, please disregard it. Yes, we do
stream on YouTube. We also have wherever you get your podcast,

(12:49):
you can hear a recording of this show. It's not
formatted exactly like a podcast, but you'll learn a lot
of interesting information. Let's talk to Carolyn. Carolyn, you have
a question for Dan McKenzie, mcare Law, estate planning. Go ahead, Carolyn,
what's going on? Hell?

Speaker 8 (13:04):
Thank you for taking my call. Is what I'm wondering
is if I did maybe the right thing. I'm eighty
two and I have two children, and I wanted to
leave a will for them. You know, I don't have much.
I have a car, I have my house, and I

(13:27):
have my bad's account and that's it. So I went
on to Rocket Lawyer and filled out the three page
questionnaire of all of those items and who to go to.
And you know, there was a lot more that they
asked for which I filled in and then I had

(13:49):
it notarized. Was that a good thing to do?

Speaker 9 (13:52):
Is that?

Speaker 1 (13:53):
Okay? It really depends. Okay, Carolyn, rocket lawyer is automated. Mackenzie,
what do you think about those kinds of services? I mean,
sometimes they can at least get her will down as
to what she wants. Now you printed this out and
you had it notarized. Is that right, Carolyn? Yes? Who

(14:15):
holds the will right now?

Speaker 4 (14:18):
I have it?

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Okay? So Dan, what do you think about these What
did it cost you? Again? I'm sorry, Dan, what did
it cost you? Carolyn?

Speaker 8 (14:27):
It was twenty five dollars?

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Geez, you know for twenty five dollars, Dan, we'll open
the door for you, Ronda. Anyway, I'm just kidding Dan, Well,
what do you think about these things?

Speaker 5 (14:39):
I mean, you know, if it's a really simple situation
where you're leaving stuff outright to adults, it can work.
And you know, I tell people, it's like you know,
people ask me, is this a valid will?

Speaker 2 (14:50):
And yeah? Notarized?

Speaker 5 (14:52):
I mean what part of what part of this? What
part of the state do you live in, which is that? Okay?

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Why does that man, Denver.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
So with a will?

Speaker 5 (15:05):
What the statute says is that either needs to be
witnessed by two witnesses or it needs to be notarized,
so one or the other. It sounds like you got
it notarized, Denver. The judge there does not. She puts
you through a little bit more work if you show
up with a will. That is only one of the two. Okay,
got it.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
So, but basically, if you if you tell me about
your house, is it paid for?

Speaker 8 (15:28):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (15:30):
And and how much equity is in it? How much
is it worth?

Speaker 8 (15:35):
Uh, seven hundred thousand?

Speaker 1 (15:38):
And unhappy Carolyn that you did not do a quit
claim deed. That's really good. A lot of people make
the mistake of doing a quit claim deed.

Speaker 8 (15:47):
I've heard that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
Good, And then let's.

Speaker 8 (15:52):
Have to go to probate.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Well, okay, that's what it's going to ask stan If
she has a house worth seven hundred thousand, or any
real estate, it'll always has to do probate.

Speaker 5 (16:01):
Right, Yeah, there will be a probate process based on
what you're telling me, Because yeah, probate.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
Is not the end of the world. Probate is simply,
how is it it's to open up an estate a
lawsuit basically not a lawsuit, but a filing in order
to divvy out the real estate and what else.

Speaker 5 (16:19):
Also make sure that creditors are correctly identified and paid.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah, because the kids took the house and sold it
and somebody was owed fifty grand and they could prove it,
can they get that money back?

Speaker 5 (16:32):
Probably? It's like bankruptcy. There's an order of preference, so
it depends on what.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
The okay, So if you have In other words, what
you're saying is is that being in a will takes
some responsibility because you have to make sure that the
estate clears up creditors.

Speaker 5 (16:47):
Yes, I mean you know, any way you do this,
there's going to be some level of work involved. So
as Tom just mentioned, I'm not necessarily telling people that
you must avoid probate, but this would go through probate.
They would have to open a probate case.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
When is probate required?

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Right now?

Speaker 5 (17:01):
The number is eighty eight thousand bucks. Stuff you pass
away and have eighty eight thousand dollars or real estate
in your name without beneficiaries named, without any co owners
to survive you, then there's going to need to be
a probate past.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
But if I have a house and I have one
hundred grand, and for the one hundred grand in my
stock account, I have a beneficiary, and for my house
I have a beneficiaries deed, I don't need to do
anything right. So there are ways to do a willless
or not. There are ways to do away with a will.

(17:34):
A lot of.

Speaker 5 (17:34):
Wills end up doing nothing because it's a married couple
and everything just goes to that first spouse, right or
the surviving spouse.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
I should say so, But would it be wise to
mention in a will my house has a beneficiary deed,
and my bank account or investment account has a what
do you call it? Beneficiary?

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Not necessarily.

Speaker 5 (17:53):
Sometimes people are doing that to try and keep it private,
and the will is knock me private.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
So if I do a beneficiaries deed fishery on my
annuity or on my bank account or on my investment account,
I really don't need a will.

Speaker 5 (18:06):
Uh, you know, you still got personal property and there's
still I mean, I usually recommend some sort of simple will,
at least for people who are doing so.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
It really depends on what you want to accomplish For Carolyn,
it sounds like you don't have a complicated deal. What
you may want to do, Carolyn, is a beneficiaries deed
for your house, so the house automatically passes to your
kids and an attorney. I would have make that up
for you. I would not do that on my own.
It's called a beneficiaries beneficiary type. What is it called the.

Speaker 5 (18:35):
Beneficiary beneficiary deed indeed? That's what a beneficihery deed? Do
your kids get along?

Speaker 8 (18:40):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (18:41):
Okay do your kids?

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Do your kids get along? Oh yeah, okay, okay, it's critical. Okay,
that's good. Okay, Then you could do a beneficiaries deed
to the two of them. We have more coming up.
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(20:33):
I got this one, and I get this a lot.
And I've always said this that the the area of
a state planning, the whole category is rife for ripoffs
and lyars and greed and all of that. There is
no standardization so to speak. Let me let me explain

(20:55):
what I mean. Somebody can have a will, okay, and
this text says it all. If someone dies and has
a will, how would an air know if the executor
or personal representative we don't call them executors anymore. I
don't know why. But if the personal representative simply wants

(21:16):
to keep it quiet and keep everything for themselves, how
would anyone ever know if they're an air or not.
I mean, it is not a document that must be
filed somewhere, so there's no necessary there's no reference document you.
For example, john Smith dies, there's no place you can

(21:37):
go to look up John Smith's will to see what
John Smith wanted? Is there?

Speaker 2 (21:42):
Right after someone dies?

Speaker 5 (21:44):
There is a requirement that anybody who has custody of
that document logic with the court at that point.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
But what if they don't.

Speaker 5 (21:50):
You see, if they don't and someone misses out on
something they would have gotten if they had known about
the will, that person can have liability, but you have to.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Prove it you do, Okay, so you have to really
trust your personal representative. If your personal representative thinks that
they should get most everything. Can't they just keep the
will a secret?

Speaker 5 (22:08):
I mean it's like it depends if there is I mean,
if we're going by state loss, if there is no
will file, then we'll use the intestacy statue. So that
doesn't necessarily.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Okay, that doesn't necessarily that's right, it doesn't. That's right.
The personal representative doesn't automatically get it. Okay, what if
that personal representative is next in line if there wasn't
a will, Like, what is the line of succession your
husband or wife and then your children? Right, so what
if you're one of the children, one of the adult children,

(22:38):
or there's what if you're an only child and you
don't want the you don't want anyone else getting anything you.
There are times, I guess it can be manipulated. The
point is it's not required that you lodge a will.
It is required, Oh it is Wait wait yeah, so
wait a minute. So if I'm in possession of a

(23:01):
will for John Smith, I must file it with the courts,
correct after John Smith ten days of the death.

Speaker 5 (23:09):
That's what the statue says. I mean, no, it does it, right.
We got a ton of clients that. Come man, my
dad died six months ago. Here's as will. So people
don't know they're supposed to do it. So that's the problem.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
And how do people know? Okay, what if there's three
family members and they noticed that a neighbor, Harry, is
on that will and Harry used to take care of
Dad now and then, and they think Harry is getting
an unfair amount of their inheritance. So what if the
three kids read that will together and they all say

(23:39):
to each other, let's not tell Harry right now. Come on,
I can see that scenario. You know. The kids open
the will and say, hey, did you know that Dad
left Harry, the neighbor, most of his money, not us?
And then the other two siblings say, well, the hell
with that, let's not say anything.

Speaker 5 (23:58):
Yeah, or a charity had charity could get up bothally
estate and the kids are like, ooof, I don't want
to do this. If we throw it out, we're gonna
go buy intestacy that charity's not gonna get anything. So sure,
but yes, people can commit fraud.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
I think more people than you think, Dan. I think
it's not necessarily active fraud. It's fraud by omission. They
just don't bring it forward because they don't like it. Yeah,
and how many times have we heard about this will's
being changed in the last few months of life by
a caregiver. This is the one scenario that's happened more

(24:33):
than once with you on the show. Okay, you have
a guy that's elderly at home or a woman that's
elderly at home. Okay, let's just say an elderly person
at home. They die at home. They find out that
in the previous thirty days of their life or sixty
days or the previous year, there's just recently the will

(24:54):
has been completely changed to benefit the caregiver. That happens lot,
and then people say, well, wait a minute, did they
have undue influence or is there even a such thing
as undue influence? What are you do in a case
like that. I'll bet you you've had calls like that.
Oh yeah, hey, Dan, my father his will was changed.

(25:17):
He wasn't even in his right mind. I don't want
he left. He left a good chunk to the housekeeper.
What do we do about it? What do you say
to that?

Speaker 5 (25:26):
It's tough because look, look, the person might have really
wanted to leave things to their housekeeper, and they have
a right to do a right to do that, so
undue influence. Yes, that is one of the main challenges
against launched against wills. The bar is high, like you
got to show that this person really, like was put
under so much pressure, they lacked free will, like they
couldn't you know, they were isolated and they really that

(25:50):
person really was just unrelenting.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
I think you should have continued conversation with your loved
one that might be dying and you may be titled
to something, have active conversations like mom or Dad, did
you make any changes to your will? Or can I
have a copy of that will? So let's say they
take a copy of the will, ye, and then it's

(26:13):
changed and their copy doesn't reflect the other copy. So
the housekeeper comes up with a will, and then I
have a copy of the will. Which one are they
going to use?

Speaker 2 (26:23):
The later dated one?

Speaker 5 (26:25):
If it is properly dated and written, notarized and witness
and all that.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
I think I'm going to go on record, and I've
said it before, by the way, three oh three seven
to one three talk three oh three, seven to one,
three eight two five five or three oh three Martino
three oh three six, two, seven, eight, four sixty six.
Call with anything, Please call with anything you want and
we would love to talk to now Dan, I'll bet

(26:55):
you no. I'm going to go on record to say
we have to standardize the probate system. Have any states
done that where wills must be lodged when they're drawn up,
not when somebody dies, where there is a depository for wills,
and where people who think they have can be are

(27:15):
in air can see the will. I mean, do we
have any states that do that or is it all
on the honor system?

Speaker 5 (27:23):
I mean, I think they used to do that, But
it's this, It doesn't necessarily solve the problem because you
could lodge the will with wherever the repository is and
then change it, and then you've got the same problem
with inconsistent documents. If they don't do the new one,
is that still like it doesn't have to be lodged
to be legit, and then you're creating issues where it's like, again,
if a person just because they're in the last thirty

(27:45):
days of their life they change their will does not
mean it's invalid, that it's invalid.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
How often does that happen? More than we think they
just change the will toward the end.

Speaker 5 (27:54):
Yeah, because a lot of people have either put it
off entirely or have a will that's decades old and
they're realized like, oh this is impending.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, I'm gonna figure this out all right.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
Hey Patricia, what's going on with your contractor what's happening? Patricia?

Speaker 5 (28:07):
Well?

Speaker 10 (28:08):
Hello, how are you today?

Speaker 1 (28:10):
Good? What's going on? Okay?

Speaker 10 (28:13):
So about a month ago or two, we contracted somebody
to do the upper landing and the staircase with LVP.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Okay, floor coverings? Okay, who did you contract to do
floor coverings?

Speaker 10 (28:31):
It was Oh god, it is that the names. I'm
so sorry. It was Nick Perino and his group. You've
tried to look it up on Better Business Bureau. It's
not there.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
Well, Better Business Bureau is an ancient organization anyway, they're dinosaurs.
Hold on a second, Patricia, I want you to try
to get any any stuff together. I'm going to come
right back to Okay, I gotta take this break. Three
oh three seven, one, three eight two five five? Do
you want stem cell therapy? Do you want to get
out of pain? I can speak to them directly as
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(29:12):
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(29:34):
customer when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man
dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance three
oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two. Hey Tom
Martino here with Dan McKenzie McKenzie law. We have a
question for him coming up at wait. I want to
take Patricia now. She she's contracted with Nick Perino to

(29:56):
do some floor coverings. And when did you hot? When
did you higher Nick in March? And his name and
what happened?

Speaker 10 (30:05):
His company's name is Absolute Renovations LLC.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
We've heard of them before. I've heard of him before.
I think we've had other complaints. Tell me what happened?

Speaker 10 (30:18):
Well, we thought the gave him all the money, you know,
like through his oult that's how he wanted.

Speaker 11 (30:25):
To be paid.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Well, that doesn't mean you have to do it. That
doesn't mean you have to do it. But anyway, that sucks.
You paid everything up front? How much did you pay?

Speaker 10 (30:36):
Over four thousand dollars for his line? And they did
some railings, which are okay, but uh. And then he
came up with a material bill and I said, I
would like to see the receipts, because he said receipts
on demand. He never sent me any.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
Reason, Patricia, I have to ask you something. Did the
contract this is important? Did the contract have a price
for just labor and materials or was it one price
for everything?

Speaker 10 (31:11):
It was one price for labor and materials. That's what
I can find what i've seen.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
But but did his say because because let me tell
you why, if he, for example, made a four thousand
dollars contract for your floor coverings and he did them
all for four thousand dollars, he doesn't have to give
you a receipt.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
The only time you would be the only time he
would have to give you a receipt is if he's
telling you that you're going to pay for materials plus labor,
And then you would have a right to know what
the materials were. And how many hours he spent on
the job. I don't know contract was written. Was it

(31:59):
written as a job or was it written that your
materials could be a certain amount of money. In other words,
did you know the price of everything up front or
were the materials left open?

Speaker 10 (32:12):
Materials were left open. I ended up paying an extra
fifteen and eighty three. I wanted to make sure that
everything was paid upfront, so he can't say that, you know,
that's the reason why he did finish work is because
I didn't pay.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Well, that's the worst that's the worst reasoning in the
world is to give a contractor money up front so
they don't complain. What you should do is if you
can not give a dime upfront until they're finished with
the job, or pay when they start the job, pay
in the middle of the job, and then pay at
the end of the job. But that's too late. Now,

(32:50):
let's talk about today. What's the problem today? Is the
job completed?

Speaker 10 (32:56):
Well, we had to have somebody else come in and
do it. We went was unsafe. The upper landing had
this big gap in it. The bullnos on the second
stair was falling off. The guy that came in, Yes,
and it only took him one day with Nickkrino. It
took three weeks and not even finished.

Speaker 1 (33:19):
So okay, So nickno, do you how much? How much
of that four grand were materials? Do you know? Uh?

Speaker 10 (33:29):
No, I can get my email up and everything, but
it was mainly the labor and packs and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Do you want do you want your money back? What
do you want? I mean, did you get any value
from Prino?

Speaker 10 (33:45):
The only thing I got was the railing and the
railings on the news on the stairs or brand new railings,
and those were done really well, pretty much, you know good.
But the guy that came in yesterday, he went to
charge me anything and he didn't ask for any money
until after the job was done.

Speaker 6 (34:04):
Yeah, they had.

Speaker 10 (34:06):
To retake all of the flooring.

Speaker 6 (34:09):
And the stairs out, and they did.

Speaker 10 (34:13):
A beautiful Joby.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
Did they Did they reuse the materials? No?

Speaker 10 (34:19):
They did not because there was so much clue and
stuff on the back.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
How much did you have to pay to have it redone.

Speaker 10 (34:26):
Twenty one hundred?

Speaker 1 (34:28):
Are you gonna sue Nick for that? That's what he
owes you.

Speaker 10 (34:31):
I try to go to better business beer. I tried
to better.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
Business grows Better Business Bureau doesn't do anything. They don't
do anything. I mean, you can go to Better Business Row.
It's what do you think there's some kind of official organization.
They don't do anything. All you do is complain to
them and then they issue these stupid grades of ab CD.
Nobody nobody cares about the Better Business Bureau. They don't

(34:58):
do anything.

Speaker 11 (35:00):
Like a slam dunk for small claims court.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
It does sound like a said I was gonna say
that you can sue this guy in small claims court.
You can use a statement from the other guy saying
he had to tear everything out because it was wrong. Patricia,
did you take pics of the old job? Yes?

Speaker 10 (35:19):
My husband did he get a lot?

Speaker 12 (35:21):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (35:22):
Are you going to do? You want to know how
to take this guy to small claims court? I think
that's yes, this is where it's going. Jr. We will
get up to you for Dan mackenzie coming up on
the Troubleshooter Show. Go with a Sure Thing Denver's Best

(35:42):
Roofer Excel Roofing dot com. You don't pay a cent
until you're content. Time for an insurance check up free
no obligation comparison call Compass Insurance pay too much your
coverage at dozens of insurance companies. Find out now three
O three seven to seven one help. You'll think you're
his only customer when you choose Frank durand the real

(36:03):
estate man dot com to list your home with Remax
Alliance three oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two d.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
New need ad who you don't have?

Speaker 3 (36:21):
Come run in sustas as we can show. Shooter's gonna
help Come Man.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Dix is the Troubleshooter Show. No Tom Martino.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
Hey, I'm Tom Martino. Welcome to the only show of
it's kind anywhere in the universe. Fifty years broadcasting, fourty
five years in Denver, solving problems, answering questions, taking complaints.
Dan McKenzie is with me from McKenzie Law. They do
a stay planning and we do have a question for Dan.
We're gonna go back to Patricia as well. But Patricia
bottom line is this, you need to show that this

(36:57):
guy never did the job correctly. You need to take
him the small claims court and ask for your money back.
That's what I would do. Maybe you allow him for
the banisters or railings as you put them. If he
did the railings and they were. Okay, put a value
on those railings and then sue him for the rest.
What did the second contractor say the railings were worth.

Speaker 10 (37:24):
He didn't say anything about the railings.

Speaker 7 (37:26):
He just did the.

Speaker 10 (37:27):
Flooring and the stairs again, him and his team.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Okay, what do you think those railings were worth? Do
you have any idea when he gave you the bid
how much of that four grand was for the railings.

Speaker 10 (37:40):
I was trying to find the email from him regarding
that about the about how much it would actually cost,
and I'm thinking not more than two.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
But so why don't you sue him for the other
two thousand? Why why don't you sue him or sue
him for the whole four grand? I mean, I don't care,
but this guy sounds like a dirt bag. Deputy D
did a deep dive on him. Deputy D, what did
you find?

Speaker 2 (38:09):
You know?

Speaker 13 (38:09):
I just just did a cursor research on the Internet
and some databases, and mister Perino appears to operate a
whole bunch of different companies, and there have been some
very recent lawsuits against him and his various companies from
other construction customers that are kind of alleging substantially the
same thing, which has learned from our caller.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
So basically he takes the money and does a pisspoor job.

Speaker 13 (38:32):
Well, those are the allegations. And you know, I still
don't quite understand how much our caller feels she is
due for the.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
Workfare said the railings might be worth about two She
paid them four. But she had to pay to correct
that work too, So it's weird. She had to pay
twenty one dollars to correct the work, and so I
think she needs to charge twenty one hundred is to
correct it that brought the job to perfection, So she

(39:02):
sues him for twenty four hundred. Actually be twenty one hundred.

Speaker 13 (39:05):
Right, And of course, you know, many of us here
would be happy to call mister Pirino to see if
he's in the mood to issue her a partial refound
for a while.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Let's do that, or maybe we can even get him
on the phone.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Yeah, let's try. Let's try. That's a good idea. D.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
I got a bunch of numbers for him, all right.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
So we're gonna have Deputy D work on this. Patricia,
see if we can help you out here. I want
to talk to JR. Who has a question for Dan Jr.
Go ahead, what's going on? Jr? Jr? Okay, must be

(39:41):
something wrong with that line. Can't get JR on. Let's
go to Jeff. Jeff, what's going on? Some?

Speaker 7 (39:50):
Go ahead the situation?

Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah, I can hear you fine? Are you Jeff?

Speaker 7 (39:57):
I am?

Speaker 4 (39:57):
Jeff?

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Oh, what's going on? Jeff?

Speaker 7 (40:01):
This matter involves Florida okayman who blessed me with her
condo and apparently money, and six months before she died,
a neighbor handy man got her to sign it over
to him.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Now, this is what I want to know the woman.
Just some preliminary questions. The woman who left you the condo?
What relationship were you to her?

Speaker 7 (40:33):
Absolutely? My biological mother passed away in two thousand and four,
and in two thousand and six my father met a woman.
She looked identical, but he fell in love. She fell
in love, and of course she fell in love with me.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
And so when you say fell in love with you
in a mother son kind of way.

Speaker 7 (40:58):
Absolutely step mom.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
But yes, absolutely, Okay, So your stepmom left you this place,
and what I'd like to know is what was it
put in writing somewhere?

Speaker 7 (41:12):
Yes, absolutely, it was a surprise to me. I was
in twenty nineteen. I received the deed, a copy of
the deed.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
She had the benefit of the beneficiaries deed. You mean, yes,
and it showed you as the beneficiary.

Speaker 7 (41:27):
Well, it showed me on the deed. It was called
a Ladybird deed.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Yeah, that's a beneficiaries deed in Florida. That means when
she dies, it automatically goes to you. But she has
a right to change that before she dies. Of course,
So what happened.

Speaker 7 (41:43):
We'll mentioned she was ninety four at the time of
signing this. She was really in a rough mental state.
Of course I could tell. I mean, we spoke all
the time, but these conspirators, which were part of the
phone tree, they kept me away from her lying.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
And okay, now when did you pass away? January thirtieth, okay,
and how did you find out that the will had
been changed?

Speaker 7 (42:23):
It was I got a text message from a niece
that said she was in hospice. This individual we had
a verbal, well text and verbal argument, screaming whatever, and
then I blocked them and got a lawyer so that

(42:46):
everything was supposed to go to the nieces, and the
nieces knew that I was supposed to have the condo,
and that was signed by December twenty eighth of twenty
twenty four.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Now I understand, now you say, hold on, You say
the nieces knew that everything was supposed to go to
you or just the condo.

Speaker 7 (43:06):
No, just the condo. I only knew about the condo.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
Okay, did the nieces did so? How many heirs were
there all together? Sorry?

Speaker 7 (43:17):
Just one moment? Well, she had four nieces. She left
stuff to me, and she did have money, and so
she had about a dozen friends that she left ten
thousand dollars to each, got it?

Speaker 1 (43:33):
Got it?

Speaker 7 (43:33):
And I'll just say a million one point two Okay.
This man connived her in twenty twenty five. That was
the first step that her nieces and this investor were
because she said that willed they were going to be

(43:55):
her discrectionary and they were going to put her in
a nursing home and they were. And he told me
they took the condo and that they were trying to
siphon all the money. And that's all I ever knew.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Okay. So I want to get I want to I
want to repeat this to make sure I get it straight.
In twenty nineteen, your stepmom put you on a beneficiary
deed for the condo. In twenty twenty five, her neighbor
talked her into signing the condo over to him. You're correct,
and then she died and he took the condo six

(44:31):
months later.

Speaker 7 (44:32):
And pardon me, the money, the investment money he had
moved from that facility in Ohio to a buddy at
a financial company in his name, and then he manipulated her.

(44:54):
Everybody was removed. No family got anything, no friends got.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
Wait wait wait, he got everything.

Speaker 7 (45:02):
She got one point two million dollars in his name
to transfer to a buddy.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
Got it? Okay, Jeff, Jeff, How do you know something
wrong went on? How do you know she didn't want
to do it on her own?

Speaker 7 (45:20):
Well, she was in love with my father. She had
never been in love before and never expected it at
seventy eight, and then of course I would visit. There
were years and years.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
Yeah. But well, here's what I want to know. How
do you know that the neighbor did something wrong? How
do you know it wasn't your stepmom's desire to leave
everything to him?

Speaker 7 (45:47):
That's what he's leading on.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Uh, but is it possible? Is it possible?

Speaker 7 (45:53):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (45:55):
What are you do in a case like that, Dan,
he's saying, he is saying, there's no way my mom,
my stepmom would have done this. How do you prove
something like that? See this as again, in the last
few years of her life, her will was changed, every
family member was taken off and he was put on.
Now that's let's sound suspect to me.

Speaker 5 (46:16):
Yes, it's pretty fact dependent, So it sounds like there
could be an incapacity claim. He said, she was pretty
in a pretty rough emotional state there at the end
of her life. And also undue influence. Again, you have
to show pretty unrelenting pressure on the person. It's not
just like he suggested it to her. As she said, Okay,
it's got to be more than that. So I mean
we're going by Florida law.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Yeah, Jeff, did anyone witness this influence at all?

Speaker 7 (46:43):
Well, there were two people conspiring together.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
Who are the two people? Who is the neighbor and
who else?

Speaker 7 (46:53):
It was the neighbor below. She was a lovely lady
that I believed loved Betty and tried to help her
and shopping and doctor bull.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
But there were two people. One was the neighbor below
and the other one was this guy? And who was
this guy?

Speaker 14 (47:09):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (47:10):
Is?

Speaker 7 (47:10):
I actually we went to the same school. We graduated
the same year. I never knew him. He had two children,
which he invested in. I understand they had college education,
but he had nothing fifteen years renting. I actually sold
him my father's car. We shook hands with eye to eye.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
Okay, And so where does this stand today? Did you
open up any kind of an action?

Speaker 7 (47:37):
Yes, I have two actions.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
All right, hold on, we'll come right back to you.
I have to take this break. Three h three seven
one three eight two five five. This is a terrible situation. People,
listen up. And by the way, Frank Duran, speaking of
valuating your home, you know you can get your home
evaluated for your estate or to sell for whatever reason.
Frank will do an analysis free of charge. That's right.

(48:04):
It's a complimentary service. Whether you want to list your
house or whether you want to keep it. He will
do this analysis for you and take into consideration all
of the current market characteristics that price your home. Three
oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two. Frank Duran,
the realestateman dot com go with a sure thing Denver's

(48:30):
best roofer Excel roofing dot com. You don't pay a
cent until you're content than time for an insurance checkup
free no obligation comparison call Compass Insurance paying too much
your coverage at dozens of insurance companies find out now
three oh three, seven to seven to one help. You'll
think you're his only customer when you choose Frank durand

(48:51):
the real Estateman dot com to list your home with
Remax Alliance three oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.
Hi Tom Martino here, Welcome to the show. Three zero
three seven one three talk seven one three eight two
five five. What's on your mind today? Let's go to
the phone's okay? Now we have questions for I'm going

(49:15):
to take in the order they've come in. A JR
has a question for Dan and is this with your
This is the one with uh? Go ahead Jr? Or no? Jeff?
Are we still with Jeff? Yeah, we're still with Jeff.
Your step mom? So what are you do in a
case like this with Jeff? Let's go back to Jeff
because JR. Wasn't ready when we took him before. Jeff

(49:35):
has this will what do you do? Okay? You think
your mom, your stepmom was unduly influenced and the will
was changed and that guy got everything and the family
got nothing. That seems suspect to me.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
It does.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
So what are you doing in a case like that?

Speaker 5 (49:50):
Yeah, I mean it's gonna look like a lawsuit. It's
going to look like litigation, right, And you do need
to have evidence beyond just saying I think this is unfair.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
And yeah, showing that she changed things.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
What evidence would you have, Jeff, if you're in court
with me and I'm telling you, you prove it, Jeff,
what proof do you have that I influenced your stepmom?

Speaker 7 (50:13):
Okay? One? The last will was signed December twenty four, okay,
and then it all got reversed by him. The documentation
I have a great deal is because he perpetuated a
lie about the family. He turned me against them. I

(50:37):
thought they were children of Satan, and it was only
after her death did they reach out directly to me
and they were not evil. So he created this dynamic
and this woman she could hardly see blind technically in
one eye and couldn't see out of the other. She

(51:00):
relied audibly, and so when he would speak to me,
he would be on speakerphones so that she could hear it,
and it just it just continued. So then as he
convinced me that they had taken the condo and that

(51:23):
he was working on reversing it. This was February twenty seventh,
I think, so he was hold on.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
He was giving you the impression that he was working
for you, well, working for her.

Speaker 7 (51:39):
I thought he loved her, but loved her.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
So, Jeff, you thought that this guy had her best
interest at heart. You thought this guy was going to
make things right, and all the time he was manipulating
everything for himself.

Speaker 7 (51:56):
And it was my fault because that February text had
a photo and it was you know, Jeff Meyer. Oh sorry, and.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
I don't care. I don't care about it. Hey, listen,
what about this, Jeff? You and the other siblings are
the nieces? Are they these other nieces? They were heirs
as well? Right?

Speaker 7 (52:19):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (52:20):
How many airs altogether? Four of you five and all
five of you were aced out by this one guy?
Is that correct?

Speaker 7 (52:30):
You are?

Speaker 1 (52:31):
Then why don't you five chip in together and file
a lawsuit?

Speaker 7 (52:37):
So, like I mentioned, I thought they were terrible, And
when I realized what had happened, I looked online and
fronted the situation. I immediately got on with a lawyer.
But then after the nieces reached out and we realized

(52:58):
the synchronous of everything. I don't know everything, and yeah
we we They got a top lawyer and included me.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
So where does this stand right now?

Speaker 12 (53:12):
I have a question for Jeff.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
We hold on one sec bo, Okay, I'll have your question.
But where does this stand right now? Jeff? The other
siblings got an attorney or the other heirs, where does
it stand in the courtse right now?

Speaker 7 (53:25):
It is beginning? I don't even so my lawyer for
the condo has served this person, but I don't believe
yet that he's been served for I'll just say the
niece's lawyer.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
So it's me, So what do you need? What did
you need information wise from our expert today, Dan McKenzie.

Speaker 7 (53:50):
I just you know, it's it's absolutely disgusting that somebody can,
at least in the state of Florida. So my mom
she had a lawyer, regular lawyer all her life, and
then he took her to some RJ Tech service and

(54:11):
wheeled her in and got family as witnesses and it
was done right. But it's funny that I mentioned.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
That's how they do it.

Speaker 7 (54:22):
His name to a place in you know, obviously Florida,
and you know, everything went to him and the conspirator.
And I, however, never thought i'd get cash because they
got the condo.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Okay, but here's the bottom line. What there's nothing you
can do about it. I mean, if already you're going
into court, that's what you do. But it is disgusting.
And I've said this before that changes to a will
can be made so easily because as people get older
and closer to death, they're apt to do things more

(55:00):
than they would at a younger age. And maybe this
guy talked her into it, but you know what, Dan,
even if he talked her into it, that's not in
and of itself against the law, is it.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
It's got to be more than that.

Speaker 5 (55:12):
It's got to be, like I said, really isolated a
lot of press. Now again, this is Florida. They might
have a different standard, but it's usually like you know, yeah,
I can't just suggest it to you that you change
your will and put me in there and then you
do it like that's not undue influence.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
So Jim, go ahead.

Speaker 12 (55:28):
This is really important at the beginning of this long
winded conversation. Jeff, you mentioned that your stepmom conveyed a
beneficiaries deed.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
So if that's yeah, but he did away with the beneficiaries.

Speaker 12 (55:43):
How could you do away with it if it's been
recorded and drafted.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
They he changed the documents Ladybird deed.

Speaker 7 (55:52):
Yeah, they're not required to contact the person who's being removed,
just like hip.

Speaker 12 (55:58):
Did you see a copy of this beneficiaries deed? It
should be recorded. Did you actually see it?

Speaker 6 (56:05):
Bo?

Speaker 7 (56:06):
Bo?

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Do you understand how recording works? Bo? If a recording listen,
if a beneficiary's deed was recorded showing him being part
owner when she dies or all owner, and then they
change the beneficiary deed back to a normal deed and
left it to the other guy. They are allowed to

(56:29):
do that. It's not one and done. Just because they
filed the deed doesn't mean they can't amend it.

Speaker 12 (56:35):
Okay, I didn't know it was altered afterwards, that's what
he said.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
He said they altered it. He said they took him
off and put the other guy back on it. So
not back on it, but on it. So they altered
the beneficiary deed or the Ladybird deed, Jeff. It sounds
like the guy out maneuvered you, and unless you can
go to court and prove otherwise, he's going to get
to keep it. I'm convinced that there are people that's

(57:03):
all they do. They go out and convince older people
to sign over their assets. I really believe that there's
not much you can do about it except file a lawsuit. Sorry,
go ahead, and you no, no, The only thing you
can do is file a lawsuit. And it sounds like you.
It sounds like you guys have already done it.

Speaker 7 (57:25):
And is based on the dynamic which December twenty four
had a real will with family and myself all of
twenty twenty five. First was the money, the investments, and
then in July it was the condo.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
I get it.

Speaker 7 (57:48):
She died in January.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
I get it. You're saying he was gradually taking over everything.
I get it. I get it. But that doesn't mean
it was wrong. Elderly people are allowed to make changes.
You have to show that it wasn't really their intent,
and that is almost you want to know the truth,

(58:12):
it's almost impossible. Let's just say it like it is.
Thank you for calling man, I hope, I wish you
the best, Dan, Let's just say it like it is.
It's almost impossible, isn't it to prove that someone changed
the will and it was wrong? They shouldn't have been changed.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
It's say, it is a lot of work. It is
an undertaking.

Speaker 5 (58:30):
So you got to if you're trying to prove incapacity,
you probably have to says you can't use the words
that the diseased person told you during their lifetime. You
know there said EVIDENTI a limit on that, So it
is it is a hard case.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
Yeah. So in any case, I'm just saying that you
know the best to you, You're going to a lawsuit.
That's where it should be. I'm Tom Martine. We have
more right after this. Hi, Tom Martino. Here we are

(59:05):
fighting for you. Three oh three seven one three eight
two five five. Kenny, what's going on in your life? Kenny?
Welcome to the show? Is Kenny there? It would be there, Kenny, Okay,
probably not. So if you get a hold of them

(59:27):
off the air, you let me know. Meanwhile, I'll go
to some questions for Dan mackenzie. Mackenzie law our guest
today and our number, by the way is three oh
three seven one three talk that's the studio line seven
one three eight two five five, or you can call
three oh three Martino three oh three six two seven

(59:51):
eight four six six. Okay, So a stay planning questions again,
the location of the will, the changing of the will
of the last minute, what is undoing it, undue influence.
Let's just talk about that, because Dan, I swear to
you this is every time you're on people say I
had an aunt or an uncle, or a father or

(01:00:14):
a stepfather or a brother or whatever, and they change
their will right before they died, or within months before
they died, and we don't think it's right. What what
do you do in a case like that? We don't
think it's right? Right, and people can change if they want.

Speaker 5 (01:00:37):
Yeah, every restriction you put on people changing their wills,
like at the last minute of their lives, they're a
situation where it goes the other way and they should
be changed. You know a lot of people come to
us who are in a precarious health state, and you know,
we always try and assess does this seem like they're
doing it on their own initiative? Is there somebody pressuring them?

(01:00:57):
Do they understand what they're doing?

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
So you know they're working with a lawyer.

Speaker 5 (01:01:00):
Lawyers are supposed to assess that and make sure that
the person really is doing something they want to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
But we've had people come and pass away.

Speaker 5 (01:01:09):
Very shortly thereafter.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
And and and the length of time after the will's
changed that they live doesn't. That's not proved the fact
that they did it right before they die. Now, if
you wanted to argue capacity, how do you do that
after someone is dead?

Speaker 5 (01:01:27):
So for capacity to the question is does the person
seem to know what they own? Do they understand what
they're doing? So how do you go back and prove that?
You talk to friends and neighbors and all that. Well,
I mean that's the purpose of the witnesses that watch
them sign the will, that you know, part of the ceremonies, Yes,
to make sure that the witnesses see does this person
seem to understand what they're doing?

Speaker 8 (01:01:47):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
And so this one seems suspect because every single family
member was ased out and this neighbor was put in. Yeah,
I mean that's weird. But they don't go by weird,
do they the law the lawn they do no? Wait,
do they ever say circumstantially Wait a minute. You mean

(01:02:09):
to tell me he took all four of his relatives
off there for you, who is a neighbor.

Speaker 5 (01:02:16):
Yeah, I mean I think that the circumstances are certainly
going to affect how people look at this, because, yeah,
it does seem.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Weird, but not unheard of. I mean a lot of
people know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
I'm here. We hear it all the time here, and
you're right, sometimes they start getting pissed off because as
they get older, maybe they aren't being visited or coddled.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
Yes, we got a.

Speaker 5 (01:02:40):
Lot of people, of course, who are did cutting people
out because they don't agree politically? You know, is that
an invalid reason to cut somebody out of your will?

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
It's not.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Somebody wants to know about a follow up trustee or
an assigned trustee. If your trustee isn't available, how many
layers do you go with that?

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
I mean I at least like to go too, so
you have.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
A trustee for your trust then one backed up that
one and one backup that one.

Speaker 5 (01:03:06):
Yeah, if you can come up with the more, it's great.
And you know, as you were saying, it's it's hard,
it's a big job, and yeah, it's the person who's
doing it is it's very hard.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Trustees allowed to charge the estate, Yes, even if it's
not written in the estate. I mean that.

Speaker 5 (01:03:22):
Yeah, so again state dependent that In Colorado we've got
the uniform Trust Code and they are entitled a reasonable
payment for.

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
Their Like what would reasonable payment be?

Speaker 5 (01:03:32):
I mean, so what is reasonable is like at the
end of the day, they're going to have to provide
an accounting to the beneficiaries and part of that accounting
is going to be what did they charge? So do
the beneficiaries think it's reasonable? So you have to, as
the fiduciary, probably keep track of your time. And yeah,
I mean usually we see people fifty to one hundred

(01:03:52):
bucks probably an hour. Okay, if they're not professionals. I've
seen people charge as much as two hundred. That seems
like aggressive to me. A lot of professionals don't even
charge that much.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
And speaking of professionals, there are people who are professionals trustees.

Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
You know, their license, they're ensured, they're bonded. So who
do they have to be an attorney? I know, so
you can be I could put my shingle up and
be a licensed trustee. Yes, And I help people because
I'd love to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
You want to know why, because I mean I'm a
little old now to do it, but I'd love to
do it, meaning in my alter life, I'd love to
do it because then you cut through all the mustard
and you you do what's right.

Speaker 5 (01:04:35):
Yeah, you still have to follow the trusty you might
get you know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
You.

Speaker 5 (01:04:40):
The problem with being a trustee, of course, is you're
dealing with potentially angry people, potentially unstable.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
Air can affirm be a trustee? Yes, so a law
firm or an accounting firm, and then they would designate
someone within that firm, so it's more it's not one
in individual Yeah, right, you've seen that happen. Yes, So
that's a good alternative, I think, actually, because I think

(01:05:07):
family members get messy.

Speaker 5 (01:05:08):
I mean usually the family member is doing a job
is also one of the beneficiaries, so they're making decisions
that are going to impact them personally. So there's a
conflict there, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
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(01:06:22):
Remax Alliance three oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two. Hey,
I'm Tom Martino. You're a troubleshooter three oh three seven
one three talks seven one three eight two five five.
I'm telling you that when you assign a trustee, you've
got to be careful. We have Dan Mackenzie Mackenzie Law.
We're talking about estate planning, wills and stuff, but we'll
talk about anything you call about so if you call

(01:06:44):
about a problem, question or complaint, we can shift gears
in a heartbeat three oh three seven one three talk
three oh three seven one three eight two five five
or three oh three Martino. But really and truly, folks,
communication is the key. With your older relatives and you
suspect you might be an heir or even having a
frank discussion mom, dad and uncle, friend, whatever. If you

(01:07:08):
have an estate plan, perhaps you want to go over it.
We want to make sure you know exactly what you're
doing and no one is taking advantage of you. But
as someone said here that maybe this guy was upset
because he took advantage of her and someone else took
advantage of her after he did. I mean, you know,
you never really know. All I know is this that

(01:07:30):
as you get older, you're going to have more and
more people if you have money at your beck and call,
and they're gonna want a piece of the action. So
it's important to have that for nothing else, to have
an estate plan, so your assets that you've built up
over your life, that they go somewhere to help where
you want. And charity might even be part of it.

(01:07:53):
I think as well. Into I think a good idea
would be, if ever changes are made later in life,
even near death or presumably near death, I think an
explanation in the will itself would be good. Dan, I'm saying,
you say this, I'm getting advanced in age and I

(01:08:16):
want to make some changes. I've been disciplined seriously. Now
I'm saying, this is like an example of something I
have been disappointed with the lack of communication with my family.
I feel like I've been left out, and I choose
now to withhold support for them and to now give
it to so and so. Wouldn't you think something like

(01:08:38):
that would really shoot down a challenge.

Speaker 5 (01:08:44):
Yes, but a lot of this stuff, I mean I
remember reading a case of law school actually where somebody
did something like that. I just went on for pages,
like multiple pages. I didn't get Christmas car, they didn't
do they didn't contact me, they haven't cared for me.
And then the family came out and showed it. Here
are Christmas cars that we said. It's just like, it
doesn't totally slam the door. Because yes, somebody is unduly

(01:09:05):
influencing somebody else to make a will like that, they
might be smart enough to say also include this right,
so It's like the court can't just take that at
face value.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
Maybe after a certain age. Seriously, they should have a
counselor sign off on whether someone is competent to do it.
I mean, listen, Dan there be I say this all
the time. There has to be some improvement made to
the system. There has to be We have all of
these charges of incompetency all the time. Whenever they want

(01:09:38):
to prove that the will should not have been changed,
they bring up competency, and people don't understand proving someone isn'tcompetent.
That's difficulty.

Speaker 5 (01:09:53):
Yeah, I've it requires probably testimony from doctors, reviewing medical records.
These are very expensive things to get done.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
Now, you mentioned, and somebody must have heard you over
YouTube that you'd be surprised. I many people come in
and haven't transferred title in the allotted amount of time.
What is the allotted amount of time for real estate?
Do you have a certain amount of time after death
to transfer title?

Speaker 11 (01:10:16):
They have?

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
Is there no?

Speaker 5 (01:10:19):
Not necessarily?

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
Okay, because this guy said something about uh, it being
six years ago they were left the house and never
did the paperwork. Is it too late?

Speaker 5 (01:10:31):
Oh well, they might have to open a probate, so
you have three years to open a probate. If you
don't open it within three.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
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Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
Yeah, ripped.

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
News need so you don't have.

Speaker 3 (01:11:19):
Come running es as as we can show Shooter's gonna
help you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
Come Man Dix is the Troubleshooter Show.

Speaker 15 (01:11:29):
No, Tom Martine, take it, pa, Come on, that's your turn.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
We call her.

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
I'm here, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here. I was
reading something and I did not hear the introduction. I'm sorry,
so welcome to the show. I think that's probably be
the first time in forty five years I've ever done
that in my entire life. First time in two weeks.
I don't know, what do you think? Have you ever
heard that before? Dragon?

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
Have I done that before? Do you want the polite answer?

Speaker 15 (01:12:14):
You want the real answer?

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
Hey, I want the real We only want truth here
on the Victor Marx.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
Of Talk Radio good.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
I'm just kidding, But bravo for everyone in the media
going after him for the right thing, asking him for accountability.
The guy is a squirmy guy. Man. I just can't
believe some of the claims he's made and the movies.
You know, so many people just believe that crap. I
didn't mean to get off on him. By the way, Okay,
so let's talk to Bob, who has a question for

(01:12:46):
Dan McKenzie. By the way, Dan McKenzie, McKenzie law, he's
with co Plans dot co or eight three to three
co Plans. He's helping me with my estate plan. That's
a true story. Mine is a little complicated. And you know,
I waited way too long. Seriously, never ever wait this long.
You should as you're acquiring things, you should include them

(01:13:07):
and update them and update values. And don't don't be
asleep at the wheel. Don't be asleep at the wheel. Bob,
what is your question? For Dan McKenzie. Tell you what
can we do?

Speaker 7 (01:13:18):
Okay?

Speaker 9 (01:13:19):
Okay, can you hear me, yes, sir?

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
Can you hear me yes, sir?

Speaker 9 (01:13:23):
Talking a lot, Okay. T's a question I want Scott
to if there's any obvious pitfalls he sees in my
approach to this estate planning. I'm a single, white guy,
never married, no children. I've got a long term partner, Julia.
So my intent is to name I have all my

(01:13:44):
assets in either a brokerage account or my house and
my car, and I plan to use a brokerage account
and divide the assets using beneficiary designations. Plan to transfer
the real estate by using a beneficiary deed, transfer the
automobile by a form that the state provides for transferring

(01:14:06):
an auto after your death. And I will have a will,
just an ordinary will, not a poor over will, an
ordinary will in case I overlook something or one of
these beneficiary fails. I also will use a power attorney
to give to somebody in case I become incapacitated, and
I have a medical power of attorney. Now with that approach,

(01:14:28):
does he see any obvious pitfalls?

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
I mean, we do plans like that.

Speaker 5 (01:14:34):
I mean we have clients to come in and they're
leaving everything to an adult, and they're using beneficiary designations,
and so no, it sounds.

Speaker 2 (01:14:43):
Like a plan that we do.

Speaker 5 (01:14:46):
I mean, without seeing everything, it's difficult for me to
say for sure, but the approach that you are describing
is certainly something that we see and do ourselves sometimes,
So you need to understand that. Of course, if Julius
are vibes you, she's going to direct where these things go.
And maybe that's fine, Maybe that's fine.

Speaker 9 (01:15:04):
Yeah, Okay, well I appreciate your comment, Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (01:15:08):
And Bob, is there any reason you're doing it that way?
In other words, you want to have as much as
much done as possible, right, Okay, go ahead.

Speaker 9 (01:15:17):
I can tell you why I did have a professionally
done pulver will and the trust and the documents. I
never funded the trust, which is also I think a
common thing, but the prover will would cover there. But
I looked at this, if I want to change beneficiaries,
it's easier to do it by just going to my broker,

(01:15:38):
and I could do it in an afternoon, as opposed
to having to return to a law office to amend
a will or a trust. So I thought this approach
was much easier. It facilitates changes in the future, and
it seems to cover all the transfers that I that
I need. So that's why I decided to go this

(01:16:00):
way rather than fun to trust.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
Yeah, it sounds like reasonableness to me. You know, yeah
it does. Beneficiary designations on accounts are very important.

Speaker 5 (01:16:12):
I just warned people who do this kind of planning.
You know, if Juliet does not survive you, you're gonna have
to go back and redo all these beneficiaries.

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
And yeah, it's easy when.

Speaker 5 (01:16:22):
You look at each one, but it's like, okay, they
attached to every asset, and if you replace your car,
you're going to remember to do it. If you change
your bank, can I remembered this? It's just an ongoing process.
And then secondly, you know it does not kick in
unless you've passed away. So you mentioned the power of attorney.
That's pretty critical. But powers of attorney are getting harder
and harder to use. A lot of banks are very
suspicious of them, so trusts tend to be more reliable

(01:16:44):
in incapacity events.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
Thank you very much, Bob, Well, go ahead.

Speaker 9 (01:16:48):
Sorry, should I add something to because Scott Ray something
power of attorney. I had one done by a well
known estate lawyer in town. I go to my bank
to go, ah, I don't know if we're going to
take this. I call it the brokerage. They go, We're
probably not going to take this, and I'm thinking to myself, Okay,
why not. They said, well, we want something that specifically

(01:17:09):
designates our organization, the bank, the brokerage, that is identified
in the power of attorney.

Speaker 6 (01:17:17):
That's what I'm what issues, what issues does.

Speaker 9 (01:17:20):
Scott's come across? And using the power of attorneys which
are created just a germal one.

Speaker 5 (01:17:26):
I mean that is what I was referring to that
powers of attorney are getting harder to use. I mean
a lot of banks, especially national financial institutions, are like
our desk, people are not equipped to read a power
of attorney and sess whether it's valid, whether it whether
it applies to the situation.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
What do they want?

Speaker 5 (01:17:43):
Instead, they want their own form field. I think you
just said they want their own form. They've got their
own power of attorney, they will they want something in
their own records. And again, now I got to go
every institution and like you could have power, you could
have something to come up with your utilities, with your taxes,
like I mean, it's just it's very frustrating. But I said,
if the account is in a trust and you've got
a success or trustee, they might not run into that.

(01:18:06):
So that is a potential reason to keep the trust.
You already have the trust, I mean I don't. I
don't Usually when people have trusts already, I don't necessarily
tell them to do the trust. But you are correct
that if you bring it to us, I mean, you
know we got to read it and amend it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:19):
Okay, So go ahead.

Speaker 9 (01:18:22):
Question Yeah, I come across this and I'm arguing with
the brokerage and the banks. Now, the brokerage has their form.
It asked me to indemnify them if anybody shoes them
regarding this power of attorney. Is it a good idea
to sign something that indemnifies these brokerages because that puts

(01:18:43):
all my assets at issue.

Speaker 16 (01:18:45):
I don't know what the costs are going to be.

Speaker 9 (01:18:47):
Have you addressed that issue, sir?

Speaker 5 (01:18:50):
I mean, there's no benefit to you signing it, but
you know you got I guess you got to designed
it won't change institutions.

Speaker 1 (01:18:56):
Well, I can tell you. I can tell you being
in the business of managing people's assets. Why it's done.
The insurance policies require that you get those done for
your people, So your insurance would be skyrocket if you
did not do what they recommend. And one of the

(01:19:17):
things they recommend is that you don't take on personal
liability of transferring things and releasing funds unless you get
them to release it. So I think many times it's
just a matter of their insurance requiring it, because we
have to be insured. Bob, when we handle people's finances

(01:19:39):
and your brokerage account, do you manage it or does
someone manage it for you? I okay, And so you're
not running across that with a company, but you will
run across it with the institution like Schwab or someone
like that. They're going to want to be indemnified again.

(01:20:00):
And for their insurance, everything runs by insurance, you know,
insurance kind of rules everything. And it really is amazing.
So anyway, thanks Bob for calling. Appreciate it. Jay, you
have a question for Dan, Go ahead, Jay, what's going on.

Speaker 4 (01:20:16):
All right?

Speaker 1 (01:20:17):
Dan?

Speaker 16 (01:20:19):
The first question I have is it's very quote unquote
reasonable time to settle in a state when it's pretty
much waiting on some really strange small details.

Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
And you know, Jay higher rest of it. We were
talking about this and I'm going to come right back
to it. Let me take this real quick. That's a
very very good question. Some of these things have been
they have been spread out over five and six and
seven years, which gets ridiculous. So we'll talk about that.
It is very very important and what is unreasonable, So

(01:20:53):
hang on and we will get to that. I want
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(01:21:37):
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(01:22:00):
Comparison call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at
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seven to seven to one help. You'll think you're his
only customer when you choose Frank durand the real estate
Man dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance
three oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two. Hey,

(01:22:20):
I'm Tom Martine. Welcome to the show. We got Jay
and he wants to know basically a reasonable amount of
time to get to an estate, close it out whatever, Jay,
Are you talking about a specific circumstance first, and then
we'll go on to general. Are you talking about anything specific, Robert?

Speaker 17 (01:22:42):
We have.

Speaker 16 (01:22:44):
A trust from my mom. She left everything very clear.
Here's the issue, real simple. Everything has been handled except
the one unknown that can never be known. And my
sister's holding up everything saying she doesn't have those exactly
and she never can and never will.

Speaker 1 (01:23:03):
What is it?

Speaker 6 (01:23:03):
So?

Speaker 1 (01:23:04):
What is the one thing?

Speaker 16 (01:23:06):
The one thing is my grandfather before my mother had
invested all over the place in all sorts of mineral rights,
and they wander in and people look them up and
find them and try to buy them or make feel.

Speaker 1 (01:23:20):
They're a nightmare. They're a nightmare, a nightmare. So in fact,
in fact, it's almost I'm going to tell you the
truth here, it's almost impossible to track them because they're
done in they're done in acreages, not in the amount
they're producing. And you could have thousands of acres that

(01:23:43):
potentially have hundreds of thousands of dollars in value, but
if they've only just started drilling, the drilling part shows
a very little value. So they might end up selling
something for ten grand that has future value of one
hundred grand. They just waited a few years. It's very

(01:24:03):
very difficult to get your money out of it, very
difficult to get your money out of it. And you're right,
it's going to take a very long time. And they
you usually find people frustrated and just selling them to
get rid of them.

Speaker 16 (01:24:19):
So here's the weird thing. My mom said, ten percent
of her state goes to her church. Okay, we know
what the house was worth, because it's long since sold.
We know it wasn't our bank accounts because they were
closed and moved. We know those two things really had
nothing else but minimal rights. These keep popping up out
of the blue. There. She has apparently tried her best

(01:24:43):
to find all the ones that exist, she's tried to
get them assessed for a value, but they continue to
pop in and out.

Speaker 1 (01:24:51):
My thought is, when you say pop in and out,
what do you mean by that? Jay pop in and out.

Speaker 16 (01:24:56):
Purely randomly for some reason. It's either gets the mail,
someone will try to buy or make an offer on someone. Okay,
got it, got it, or had no idea existed, and
that's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
There are places you can search. There are places you
can search central databases that contain royalty owners.

Speaker 16 (01:25:20):
Now we've done that, she's done that, My brother did that.
But she's saying, since she doesn't know the exact number
of them that are out there, and this and that,
and they continue to come up, she can't give the
church an accurate number to write them an accurate check.

Speaker 1 (01:25:36):
Well, that's true, that's true.

Speaker 16 (01:25:37):
Ten percent of what you have and what you know,
and as they come in, write them ten percent of
anything coming in and settle this game state. Because she's
sitting on hundreds of thousands of dollars on a premise
that she needs to have an exact number that she
cannot and will not ever have. Now, how long is
this reasonable?

Speaker 1 (01:25:58):
Well, why don't you liquid If you liquidated the oil
and gas royalties, then you would have a finite amount.

Speaker 16 (01:26:06):
Well, she liquidates them as she can. But I'm telling
you out of the blue.

Speaker 1 (01:26:11):
How is she liquidating them?

Speaker 16 (01:26:13):
How is she liquidating them when she's made negotiations. Some
people say no, some say yes, they buy them, okay them,
and then there's some number. Sometimes they say nah, we're
not as interested as as we were a minute ago.
So they're out there. But they also continue to come
in a note like I'll send her an envelope with

(01:26:35):
a company making offer on something we have no idea,
we own right, and we've gone through databases and she's
she's looked everywhere she can, but she probably will never
know that number. Is it not reasonable about she simply
gives the church ten percent of everything we know of,
gives us all our Of.

Speaker 1 (01:26:54):
Course, you guys can interpret it. It's open for interpretation
by the trustee. But if this trustee is why would
the trustee hold up everything over that.

Speaker 16 (01:27:05):
Well, to be quite honest with you, I got no idea.
I don't think she should have been the trustee. And
that's just my opinion. It's a big family and she's
not on the higher end of the brilliant scale.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
Well, there's not much you can do about it. If
she's choosing to wait, You're right, it's never going to
be known. Never, She's never going to get a finite
amount unless you liquidate and sell all of them. But
you're saying some exist that you don't even know about
a few months earlier.

Speaker 16 (01:27:35):
Yeah, in the eighties, my mom sold everything she was
aware of and there's okay coming in and sometimes she
would get huge offers into the late two thousands.

Speaker 1 (01:27:45):
Well, they can always distribute. You can always distribute everything
right now and then just make future payments to the church.

Speaker 16 (01:27:54):
Hey, but there's no way we Well, I'll have to
read the trust I think there's got to be something
in there my mom. Smart got to be a way
to encourage her to settle what's there and wait as
it comes in. Everybody can get their piece and part
of the remainders. Because it's frustrating to watch these tiny
little details that will never you know, hold on.

Speaker 1 (01:28:17):
I see what you're saying. Yeah, I want to ask
Dan mackenzie, Dan, do you do any evaluation of that
kind of stuff, like, you know, on what people can
do for that and evaluating it and settling it, or
maybe we're writing an amendment to the trust for that.

Speaker 5 (01:28:37):
I mean, I guess it depends on what the church
is asking.

Speaker 2 (01:28:42):
I mean the church.

Speaker 1 (01:28:44):
The church isn't making any demands, are they.

Speaker 16 (01:28:48):
They're not even aware of it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:49):
Okay, you see, well what first of all, you guys
could decide to just end the church contribution right at
a certain date and be done with it.

Speaker 16 (01:29:01):
So she being the I what do you call it,
the trustee or the executor, has the same power my
mom had.

Speaker 1 (01:29:09):
That's right alive to a certain extent. They can't change
the they can't change the entire trust, but they can
make an executive decision that. Okay, these things are trickling in.
There's no way to know how much we owe, how
much we're going to get, excuse me, how much we own,
how much we're going to get in the future. So

(01:29:30):
we're just going to give the church X amount of
dollars and call it good. They have the right to
do that. Your sister just has to have the nerve
to do it.

Speaker 16 (01:29:39):
Yeah, I think she's well extremely unaware of that possibility
to get a letter that tells her she can. And
how how much do you think that would cost me
in cash to go ahead and get that letter mail
it to her.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
You mean a letter from an attorney.

Speaker 16 (01:29:57):
Yeah, that says there a missus trustee, you have this right,
you can do it in this manner. This solves this problem.
Thank you for your time.

Speaker 1 (01:30:07):
Well, what makes you think she's going to believe that?

Speaker 16 (01:30:11):
Because if it comes from a trusted attorney rather than
her little brother.

Speaker 1 (01:30:17):
Well, the attorney would have to take the trust and
read through it and then give a legal interpretation on
what to do in this stalemate, because that's what it is.

Speaker 6 (01:30:28):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:30:29):
Here's the thing. I does this woman understand that these
checks could trickle in for the next twenty years.

Speaker 16 (01:30:37):
The entire family except her seems to be pulling their
hair out over that very notion.

Speaker 1 (01:30:43):
So she's saying, I'm not going to distribute anything until
the oil and Okay, but she does have she can
do all of the numbers except the oil and gas,
and then just do the oil and gas separately.

Speaker 16 (01:31:00):
Thank you for reminding me of boy, my hair is
falling out.

Speaker 1 (01:31:03):
Okay, Well, if she can't, if you can't get her
to see that, there is a way to remove a trustee,
isn't there Dan, Yeah, every trust court, every trust has
a way to get rid of a trustee.

Speaker 5 (01:31:16):
About that. No, Yeah, some doing time and we see some.

Speaker 1 (01:31:21):
Trust poorly written ones would not You should look in
the trust document to see what you have to do
to remove her.

Speaker 16 (01:31:30):
I think my brother said we have the ability to
remove her.

Speaker 1 (01:31:34):
I then you remove her. Then you remove her, and
then what you do is you make a distribution of
all of the other assets, and then you keep the
oil and gas separate for future disbursement based on what
they believe the church should get. You know, she's making
way too much work out of this.

Speaker 16 (01:31:54):
It's frustrating as can be.

Speaker 1 (01:31:57):
Well, how much money? How much money are we talking
about as far as the rest of the money, not
the oil and gas, the rest of.

Speaker 16 (01:32:07):
Them at this point, because I won't even going to
help you keep it my family can be but at
this point about a half a million?

Speaker 1 (01:32:15):
Yeah, that's ridiculous if I were you. Next step, Jay,
get off the phone, contact your siblings or fellow peep
members of the trust and get her off the trust
as the trustee. We have more coming up on the
Troubleshooter Show. Three three seven one three A two five five.

(01:32:38):
Go with a sure thing Denver's best roofer Excel Roofing
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(01:33:00):
customer when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man
dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance. Three
oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two. Hey, I'm
Tom Martino. You're Troubleshooter. Back to the phones. Okay, So
we left off with Jay and I think we just

(01:33:22):
did as much as we could. We told them to
vote the people off the island. Let's go to Tom
has a question? Tom, Go ahead? What's going on? Tom?

Speaker 4 (01:33:33):
All right, Tom, I haven't seen you since our ocean cruise.
But anyway, yeah, that.

Speaker 1 (01:33:38):
Was years ago. That was a fun time. What's going on.

Speaker 4 (01:33:42):
Tom, Hey, I got a question. Where does Dan or
you recommend placing details of a trust or let's play
a will. I had a bad experience a few years
ago about a will, but I just wanted to get
your opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:34:00):
You mean, where can it be held in trust for
when it's needed?

Speaker 4 (01:34:04):
Yes, Dan, it was a it was an updated will,
and then they had not filed it with the county
and when they passed on and I had a heck
of a time getting a copy of that will.

Speaker 1 (01:34:18):
Okay, this is the age old question. What do you
do after you have a will?

Speaker 2 (01:34:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:34:24):
Okay, so Dan, you're making a will for me. I'm
going to get the will, I'm going to get the trust.
What am I going to do with it?

Speaker 5 (01:34:31):
I mean, people do store them in secure facilities like
safe deposit boxes or safes at home. I don't really
necessarily recommend that. I usually tell people keep it with
your other important papers, because it really does need to
be the original.

Speaker 1 (01:34:46):
And do you keep it sealed? No, I don't like
in a sealed envelope.

Speaker 2 (01:34:51):
I've seen that done.

Speaker 5 (01:34:52):
But no, there's no reason.

Speaker 4 (01:34:54):
What happened. What happened in my case was we had
a copy of an older will and effected that there
might be an updated will, and as it turns, as
it turns out, we wanted to. We went to court,
we got appointed as trustee or executor or whatever it
was called now, and then we took that paperwork to

(01:35:14):
the bank to access the safety deposit box and we
were denied, uh with that, and they said you'd have
to take it up with the district attorney. And I
pointed out where that's a violation the law and they said, yeah,
you take.

Speaker 1 (01:35:32):
It up with the district attorney.

Speaker 4 (01:35:35):
That's what they said. And uh. And so, as it
turns out, I couldn't get to it. But then I
found another account that was a pod bank account, and
I was able to get to that even showed up
with both safety deposit box keys.

Speaker 1 (01:35:51):
Well, what's the linger? Is there a lingering issue? Still?

Speaker 4 (01:35:55):
No, I got it solved. But I'm just accautioning you
that because it's the law doesn't mean the bank's gonna have.

Speaker 1 (01:36:04):
In fact, I wouldn't trust a bank. Banks would be
last on my list.

Speaker 4 (01:36:08):
Yep, yep. And they say you can't access the box
for the sole purpose of looking for such paperwork. But
I found that that's not the case.

Speaker 1 (01:36:18):
No, I would never use a bank. I would use
an attorney, a law firm.

Speaker 4 (01:36:24):
Yeah, that's where we ultimately found. The backup will was
with another attorney.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
Can you dan, does the law specify where you can't
keep a will? Can you can't? Can you keep it
with a neighbor? I mean no, literally, where can you
keep a will? For example? Can can my wealth management company,
Martino Capital? Can it keep in our encrypted files? We
have files on clients. Are we allowed to keep a

(01:36:51):
will or Well.

Speaker 5 (01:36:52):
It's really got to be the original copy, So I
mean it's got to be like a paper copy, right,
Oh you know, okay? I mean if there's no paper copy,
there are ways to submit you know, copies, but there's
more process.

Speaker 1 (01:37:04):
So who is in the business of keeping wills?

Speaker 5 (01:37:07):
I mean attorneys used to do it, but that created
probably we see.

Speaker 1 (01:37:11):
You don't want a bunch of paper.

Speaker 2 (01:37:12):
You don't want to bunch from paper stor thirty years ago.

Speaker 5 (01:37:15):
I created a will for this person and it's still
sitting in my vault at my office, And what do
I even know if they're alive anymore? So it's it's
it's a difficult problem to solve, but I usually just
advise my clients, like, look, keep it somewhere where people
are going to look for it, right, I mean that's
not overthink this.

Speaker 1 (01:37:32):
Well yeah, great advice. Yeah, but where would people think
to look for it? I don't know. I wouldn't know
if I walked into a house, where would I think
to look for it? Yeah, I don't know where.

Speaker 4 (01:37:43):
Well, usually usually people tell you, like it, something happens,
look in this bookshelf, or look at my file during
the office or something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:37:51):
Or give it to each each air, Give it to
each air. Can you do it original for each air?
Can you have more than and then because they each
have an original, then they compare them at the reading.

Speaker 2 (01:38:04):
Really, I do not recommend that. No, may not recommend that.

Speaker 5 (01:38:09):
I you know, it just creates potential inconsistency.

Speaker 1 (01:38:12):
But that's like the majority. But it's like the majority report. Yeah, no,
we do it is it's like, hell on, we got
three that say this and one that says this. Yeah, no,
I would if we did that with original wills and
one was slightly different, wouldn't the majority went out or not?

Speaker 5 (01:38:32):
I can't predict that. I mean a court would probably
have to weigh in on that. So now it's sort
in the world of unpredictability. But I do not I
think the lawyers do not standard practice. They will do
one original.

Speaker 1 (01:38:47):
One original, and then you give it to your client
and good luck to you.

Speaker 4 (01:38:52):
Yeah, jeez man, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:38:56):
And okay, we don't thank you for bringing up the topic.
But we're more confused than ever. So we have Jackie
and we have Linda. Uh, we didn't take them yet.
We're gonna do that right after this three O three
seven one three eight two five five more. Right after this,

(01:39:18):
go with a sure thing Denver's best roofer Excel Roofing
dot com. You don't pay a cent until you're content.
Time for an insurance check up free, no obligation. In comparison,
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of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven
seven to one help. You'll think you're his only customer

(01:39:40):
when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot
com to list your home with Remax Alliance three oh
three nine two zero sixteen twenty two. Oh Tom Martino
here three oh three seven one three talks seven A
three eight two five five. I want to go to
the phones and see what's on Linda's mind. Go ahead, Linda, welcome.

(01:40:04):
What is your question, Linda?

Speaker 6 (01:40:07):
Yes, my question is my husband and I made a
will out by six or seven years ago for.

Speaker 4 (01:40:16):
Our two kids.

Speaker 1 (01:40:17):
Uh huh.

Speaker 4 (01:40:18):
I was talking.

Speaker 6 (01:40:19):
I was talking to somebody and they were telling me
that you had to.

Speaker 4 (01:40:22):
Have a trust or a power of.

Speaker 6 (01:40:25):
Attorney, and we don't have either of that.

Speaker 7 (01:40:27):
We just divided in.

Speaker 1 (01:40:28):
Why did they tell you? Why did they tell you
you needed a trust or a power of attorney?

Speaker 6 (01:40:34):
Oh, I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:40:38):
You did this six years ago.

Speaker 6 (01:40:40):
This is white way. This is what they told us.
If if anybody that you're leaving money to has been
a felon or been imprisoned or any of that, and
you leave them money, the state will take it. Then
I read that if the person has been out to

(01:41:00):
prison or has no felony for ten years, that's not true.
So I just need to know with that.

Speaker 1 (01:41:07):
Okay, Well, okay, so obviously you have some heirs that
have a criminal background.

Speaker 6 (01:41:15):
True, yes, okay, So Dan, have you.

Speaker 1 (01:41:18):
Ever heard of a law that if you leave money
to someone who's been in prison, the state can confiscate it.
I've never heard that.

Speaker 5 (01:41:27):
No, unless you know, if is there some sort of
restitution that eos or something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:41:33):
Now, who told you this, Linda?

Speaker 6 (01:41:35):
Like I heard it from a person that was visiting
with us that said, you guys need to check this
because this is true. And I'm like, wait, this person
we're talking about with the felon has been out ten
years paid all the restitution, you know, off of everything

(01:41:55):
that the state requires. I mean, it's it's like it's
you know, it's there, but there's no more restitution.

Speaker 7 (01:42:03):
Ode pages that said they.

Speaker 6 (01:42:08):
Did tell us there was a thing called pay to stay.

Speaker 1 (01:42:12):
Pay to stay, Yeah on it.

Speaker 6 (01:42:16):
I didn't understand it. That's why I'm calling you in prison.
You were in a halfway house, you had they would
take the money for them to pay for your stay
wherever you were. But all the restitution has been paid
for this person like ten years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:42:35):
Well, if it's already been paid. The only thing I'm
finding is they can take child supporter of ririges and
they can take civil judgments or anything of record. So
if there is something of record that he still owes,
which would be a writ of restitution, they can take
any legal lean they don't just automatically take room and board,

(01:43:00):
and that's what.

Speaker 6 (01:43:01):
You're asking, That's what I'm asking. And this person has
paid all the restitution and yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:43:08):
And there are no writs against him right now.

Speaker 2 (01:43:12):
Okay, so.

Speaker 1 (01:43:15):
Is that what you're saying. Yeah, So so we were
gonna go ahead, No, go I'm listening.

Speaker 6 (01:43:25):
So we thought we had to go back to the attorney, who.

Speaker 14 (01:43:28):
Now has retired to find out if.

Speaker 17 (01:43:31):
That was true.

Speaker 6 (01:43:32):
And someone said, no, just call Tom Martino and.

Speaker 1 (01:43:35):
Okay, because there are some there are. You're right, there
are some pay to stay laws. There are, and what
it says here under there under Colorado says, uh, it
allows the government to seek reimbursement for some incarceration costs
if you've if they have substantial assets. In practice, these

(01:43:56):
laws are not commonly enforced for former inmates who collect
money have very seldom seen assets taken. So it seems
to be something and I don't know if Colorado has it,
but there Colorado may have a pay to stay you know.

(01:44:16):
That expression, by the way, is well known in the
prison world. They do have pay to stay and I
don't know if Colorado's one of them. I'm looking on
the Colorado State Prison website. Yes, Okay, Colorado has a
pay to stay law, although it is not what most
people imagine. Under Colorado law, courts can order offenders to

(01:44:41):
reimburse the government for the cost of incarceration, supervision, probation, parole,
even home detention. The statute allows the courts to consider
an offender's assets and ability to pay. Institution to crime

(01:45:01):
victims is part of it, and courts are supposed to
consider support obligations to children and spouses first, and then
they're supposed to consider the offender's need for the resources
after release. So it's done on a case by case basis.
But they do have the pay to stay law in

(01:45:24):
Colorado and they could take some of that money. How
long has he been out of prison.

Speaker 4 (01:45:32):
In yours?

Speaker 1 (01:45:33):
Yeah, I doubt that that anything would happen, because it
says the longer they've been out, the less likely it
is for them to invoke this. And this is something
you don't have to notify the state. The state would
automatically come and get it. And if you're wondering. If
you're wondering, can you do some kind of work around?

(01:45:55):
The answer is almost always know when it comes to
legally obligation legal obligations like that three all three seven one,
three eight two five five. We have more coming up
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(01:46:16):
cent until you're content. Leave time for an insurance check
up free no obligation comparison call Compass Insurance Paying too
much your coverage at dozens of insurance companies find out
now three all three seven seven one help You'll think
you're his only customer when you choose Frank durand the
real estate Man dot com to list your home with

(01:46:37):
Remax Alliance three all three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.

Speaker 9 (01:46:46):
Ript news Need.

Speaker 2 (01:46:50):
Advice so you don't have come runnious?

Speaker 3 (01:46:56):
Can Shoot's gonna help?

Speaker 5 (01:46:59):
Come?

Speaker 2 (01:47:00):
Man Dix is the Troubleshooter Show.

Speaker 1 (01:47:04):
Now Tom Martino, Hello, Tom Martino, Welcome to the trouble
Shooter Show. What's going on in your life? How can
we help you? We got a bunch of volunteers here
with our deputies on board to fight crime and corruption
and to fight for you. We also have our expert
Dan McKenzie for McKenzie Law to talk about a state law.

(01:47:28):
My compadre Major Mark Major and his wife sus are
off today, so by the way and join us for Carday.
I'll be in the studio talking up cars and car problems. Questions, complains.
Jackie's on the phone, has a question for Dan. We've
had a very lively day talking about a state planning
and it does my heart good to know people aren't

(01:47:49):
as lax as I was in putting off of state planning. Jackie,
go ahead. What is your concern? Hi Jackie?

Speaker 10 (01:47:59):
Hi Tom, thanks for taking the call. My husband and
I own properties in three states, and we were told
that our retirement seminar previous recently that we need to
have a lawyer who's licensed in all three states to
have our wills done. We've already had them done, but
he's suggesting that we get them redone.

Speaker 5 (01:48:22):
Any talks about that, Well, is it just a will
or are you also using a trust or no?

Speaker 4 (01:48:31):
We're looking at maybe meaning to do a trust because
of this.

Speaker 1 (01:48:34):
Yeah, do you have to do a trust because of that?
Can't they do beneficiaries deeds and those other properties?

Speaker 2 (01:48:39):
Every state has beneficiary deeds?

Speaker 1 (01:48:41):
What states are they?

Speaker 5 (01:48:42):
I mean, it's like half the states have beneficiary deeds,
quite a few that do not, But yeah, having properties
in multiple states is an area where I often recommend
people do consider a trust because if you're going to
do probate, which I think every state, if you have
real property there is going to require a probate. It's
probate processes in all the states. So now you've got

(01:49:02):
three probates. So what do you do with the trust?
How does that transcend that? So the trust becomes the owner.
So you just you create the trust. You can create
it here in Colorado, but you know, have an attorney
potentially and one the other two states deed those properties
in the trust and the trust is the owner of
those properties, so there's.

Speaker 1 (01:49:18):
No probate that. So once once the properties are owned
by the trust, no matter where they're owned, they're part
of the trust wherever the trust is.

Speaker 5 (01:49:29):
Yeah, just like you can deal properties in the companies
or LLCs or whatever else, you can date them in
the trust and trust don't die, which is why they
don't go through probate.

Speaker 1 (01:49:37):
So you can have a Colorado trust then manage the
properties in other states.

Speaker 5 (01:49:42):
They can own the properties in other states.

Speaker 1 (01:49:43):
Yeah, that's the way to do it, then Jackie, you
would have a trust and the trust would own your
other properties. What kind of properties are they in the
other three states?

Speaker 10 (01:49:54):
They're residential properties. One property in Texas we have six
frontals on it, and one property in North Caroline as
residents or residential home.

Speaker 1 (01:50:04):
And are each of those in an LLC or are
they in your personal name?

Speaker 6 (01:50:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (01:50:11):
I think they're in our personal names.

Speaker 1 (01:50:15):
If they have three rentals, this is an interesting question.
If they have three rentals and they're all put into
one trust, do they treat their tax returns the same,
with depreciation and income and all of that, or does
the trust fill out income tax returns based on those
three properties.

Speaker 5 (01:50:34):
It's just a revocal living trust that does not have
a tax identity, and you just keep filing your taxes
like okay.

Speaker 1 (01:50:39):
So if I leave assets my corporation into a trust,
my corporation still does all the normal tax stuff and
all the normal ownership of assets while I'm alive. And
then upon my death, does my corporation die or no,
it's part of the trust, and it's up to the

(01:51:00):
trustee to dimit, to get rid of the company.

Speaker 5 (01:51:05):
Yeah, transfer it, keep crokating something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:51:09):
So a trust transcends death, and so do the things
you put in the trust.

Speaker 5 (01:51:14):
Yeah, I mean the trust again, it becomes the owner,
and a trust doesn't pass away. There's no probate because
there's nobody. The owner is not dead, it's just who's
running it. That the person running it changes because the
person who was running is now deceased, but next person
steps in and now they're running it.

Speaker 1 (01:51:29):
Can you have a trustee run it while you're alive?

Speaker 2 (01:51:32):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (01:51:32):
Instead of you? Yep, we have that.

Speaker 5 (01:51:35):
Sometimes there are more elderly clients especially, don't want to
mess somebody like a kid who's.

Speaker 2 (01:51:39):
Already helping them.

Speaker 5 (01:51:40):
Let's just have that person be the trustee right out
of the gate.

Speaker 1 (01:51:42):
Do you have any other question, Shackie.

Speaker 10 (01:51:46):
Just to clarify, so we don't necessarily need attorneys in
all three states we can you.

Speaker 1 (01:51:52):
Need to transfer the property.

Speaker 5 (01:51:54):
Yeah, I mean the issue is like, yes, just for
the initiative, require an attorney. But yes, usually we contact
attorneys in those states to do the deeds because every
state has its own process for in.

Speaker 1 (01:52:05):
Order to deed the property into the trust, you have
to have someone do it. It doesn't have to be
an attorney. If you knew how to do that. Like
I'm doing my own in North Carolina. I'm doing my own.
You can do your own if you know how to
do it, or you can even have a real estate
person do it, or you can have a title company

(01:52:28):
do it. I hate yeah, yeah, yeah, danis he Dani.
We'd like to see an attorney do it.

Speaker 5 (01:52:37):
We see people do their own deeds a lot, and
if you mess it up, it's real hard to undo
because the clerk and recorder is not deleting that erroneous deed, right,
They do not delete, They only record. So if there's
an owner erroneous deed in the chain of title, it
can really cause some issues. So you gotta be pretty confident.

Speaker 2 (01:52:52):
That you know what you're doing.

Speaker 10 (01:52:54):
And is that a challenge for the mortgage company for
the deeds change?

Speaker 5 (01:53:00):
Yeah, for a revocal well, for a rocal living trust
almost never. If it does become an issue, you know,
you're on both sides of the transaction anyway, right, you're
the trustee of the trust and you're the owner that
was transferring to the property end of the trust. Most
mortgages have a ninety day cure period if something arises,
saying if if there is an issue. The title of
ninety days secure it, and since you're the only one

(01:53:21):
involved in that transaction, you could do it. I've never
I've never personally seen that happen with a personal residence.
They by statute, they are forbidden from considering that a sale.
But my experience with mortgage companies is that if they
keep getting paid, they usually are not asking questions.

Speaker 1 (01:53:35):
Okay, okay, anything else okay. By the way, Uh, you
know a three to three co plans is Dan McKenzie
can get you started on a consultation there and how
often should somebody's asking again, how often should it be updated?
You're saying it's not so much devoted to time or
contingent on time, but contingent on circumstances. Yeah, I mean

(01:53:58):
that's so major life change.

Speaker 5 (01:54:00):
Yeah, you know, if it's been more than five years,
I'd be surprised if nothing has changed. And usually by
that time we see something somebody.

Speaker 1 (01:54:09):
But Texter, it's mainly based on circumstances. If your circumstances
haven't changed that much, then you don't have to. But certainly,
let's say you have another kid or two, or let's
say you've acquired some property or you started a business,
or you remarried. You know, all of these things are
massively important. Okay, so what's the most things people fight

(01:54:35):
over that you've seen.

Speaker 5 (01:54:37):
I mean, the thing, the number one thing we see
is when somebody is living in a house that they
do not have any ownership interest in. There's no agreements,
and they they won't leave. They think they're entitled to it.
They might have an argument that's like, look, I should
be compensated for work I did at the end of
life of our parents. The people outside the house are like.

Speaker 1 (01:54:56):
No, okay, and that's exactly my next issue. Someone says
I was the main caregiver for my mom, took care
for worked my butt off. They didn't use the word
butt and now I believe I should have a larger share.
I mean, you know, if the will doesn't provide for that,

(01:55:16):
tough shoo shoo shooe tough shoey, I said, shoey.

Speaker 5 (01:55:21):
I mean maybe you could argue there was some sort
of contract taking of host, but no, in most circumstances,
it's like, yeah, that is.

Speaker 1 (01:55:27):
A very Now they could all volunteer to give them
a little more, right.

Speaker 2 (01:55:31):
I've seen that happen.

Speaker 1 (01:55:32):
Yeah, Okay, have family businesses ever collapsed at death due
to poor really the businesses just go to hell.

Speaker 5 (01:55:42):
Oh yeah, I mean if the person who died was
really critical to the operation, of course that's an issue.
But yeah, people can't get into like they don't have authorization.
They're trying to get access to the business's bank accounts,
Like what is their proof that they have authorization? And
how hard is that going to be to get If
the business is again it's in a trust and the
trustee can step in and show I'm the trustee that

(01:56:03):
the trust that owns this business, that's gonna help. But
otherwise if it's just like you know, the decedents was
the only authorized signer on the account, Yeah, that's me
a big problem.

Speaker 1 (01:56:11):
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(01:56:34):
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(01:56:57):
Insurance paying too much your coverage? Does of insurance companies?
Find out now three oh three seven seven to one help.
You'll think you're his only customer when you choose Frank
durand the real estate Man dot com to list your
home with Remax Alliance three oh three nine two zero
sixteen twenty two. Hi Tom Martino here, Welcome to the show.

(01:57:21):
Three O three seven one three A two five five.
Deputy Bo, you have a question for Dan mackenzie Mackenzie Law.
What is it?

Speaker 2 (01:57:30):
So?

Speaker 12 (01:57:30):
I have two questions, Dan, what do you think of this?
To protect older people in with their wills? If could
they put a statement in a will like my will
cannot be changed or altered without a letter of competency
from my doctor. Because we're talking about mental capacity of

(01:57:52):
people and people trying to change their wills.

Speaker 2 (01:57:54):
So if they put that in there, what would you
think of that?

Speaker 1 (01:57:57):
Would that be valid?

Speaker 5 (01:57:58):
I guess, I mean they're I don't know if that
would be valid. I mean that is kind of the
rule anyway, And I'd be a little bit nervous to
advise a client to do that because they might need
to change their will and that can take to get
a doctor to sign off on that. Doctors are getting
reluctant to get involved in this kind of thing. It
can be more challenging than you think. And you're kind

(01:58:19):
of tying your own hands. So you know, you're you're
the only person potentially harmed by that. As you most
people are not feeling like they're going to have an
incompetency issue.

Speaker 2 (01:58:32):
But you see, I'm giving with that.

Speaker 1 (01:58:34):
It keep someone like the caregiver to alter the will, right, I.

Speaker 5 (01:58:38):
Mean, we do you know, again, when we are if
we're nervous about a particular client and are thinking they
really might not know exactly what they're doing or you know,
meet the standards for competency, we will we will advise
them to get a doctor's note at that time. So,
and that's that's pretty standard practice among attorneys. So it

(01:58:58):
is kind of the rule even if the will doesn't
say that. And if it doesn't say that and it
gets changed again, now you've got a potential challenge for
the will.

Speaker 2 (01:59:06):
So okay, yeah, and then the second question.

Speaker 12 (01:59:09):
When I was driving in you mentioned that there's a
Denver probate judge that as is she he or she
has personicity about the signatures of witness signatures versus the notary.

Speaker 2 (01:59:22):
Yeah, usually we do both.

Speaker 5 (01:59:24):
I mean, you know, usually have two witnesses and a notary,
but the statute says one or the other.

Speaker 2 (01:59:28):
But in Denver, if it's if you don't have.

Speaker 5 (01:59:31):
Both, I think the probate court judge there will require
you to use the formal probate process, which is a
little bit more work than just filing a probate informally.

Speaker 12 (01:59:41):
But a lot of times, Dan, once the probate is filed,
the person's.

Speaker 1 (01:59:45):
Dead almost by definition.

Speaker 5 (01:59:49):
I mean, there are probates for people who are alive
if they need a guardianship or conservatorship. But yes, you
know you can't go back right do it? You know?

Speaker 1 (01:59:57):
Damn? I mean, Pete, thank you bo Pete. What is
your question, sir.

Speaker 14 (02:00:03):
On a trust that you used the term earlier about
putting your deed for your house into a trust. Yes,
the term you used. But is there a capital gains
that the trust have to pay if the house is sold?

Speaker 5 (02:00:21):
So it doesn't for Okay, for a revocable trust, which
is the trust we do almost all the time right now.

Speaker 2 (02:00:26):
I mean people use.

Speaker 5 (02:00:27):
Vervocal trust for more sophisticated situations. But for vocal trust, no,
that should not affect the capital gains tax.

Speaker 1 (02:00:34):
I mean, you know, again, if there is a let's
say this, okay, if there's normal capital gains tax required
if you sold it because there's a lot of money
in it and you get more than the two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars exclusion or five hundred thousand for
a couple. If taxes are paid or due on that,
they're going to be due inside the trust exactly as

(02:00:57):
if they were due outside the trust. The trust does
not change the nature of the property. It just changes
the ownership of the property. The only purpose of a
trust is to keep that property through the death process. Okay,

(02:01:18):
so it doesn't really change anything. I often see. I
used to get scared, Pete, because I have a corporation
that owns assets, right, and one of the lovely things
I do is I depreciate things in my corporation. Okay,
I ask Dan, Dan, what happens to all these assets?
He says, when you put your corporation into the trust.

(02:01:39):
Your corporation will still take depreciation, Your corporation will still
have tax deductions. Your corporation will run exactly the way
it runs. The only difference is upon your death, the
trust will take over ownership where it already owns. It
takes over operation, and the.

Speaker 5 (02:02:01):
New trustee will set in continue to be able to operation,
that's right, and continue to operate it and they pay.

Speaker 14 (02:02:07):
They will have to file the taxes. There ain't taxes, right.

Speaker 5 (02:02:11):
You know, when somebody dies, whether it's a probate or
a trust, then then it does take on its own
tax identity and I'm earned will the tax.

Speaker 1 (02:02:18):
So so if I put Troubleshooter Network, which I have
in my trust, Okay, now Tom Martino dies, Troubleshooter Network
is in my trust, does Troubleshooter Network now dissolve or
is it still an entity? It's still an entity, but
it's owned and run by the trustee. Uh yeah, correct, Yeah,

(02:02:41):
So that's how it works. Pete, Thank you Pete for
the call. Three oh three seven one three talk seven
one three eight two five five. When going back to
some of my text calls, I tried to call through
these and pick the good ones. Hey, I quick question, Tom, Yes, sir, doc,
go ahead.

Speaker 11 (02:03:00):
When you have a whether it's a trust or will,
somebody inherits, let's say two hundred thousand dollars, do they
pay tax on.

Speaker 2 (02:03:08):
That in general?

Speaker 5 (02:03:10):
No, If it's coming from a tax deferred retirement account,
they will declare that as income and pay income tax
on it. But for the most part, I mean, it
depends on where they live to. In Colorado, we do
not have an inheritance tax, and it's just considered a
gift in most cases, So that.

Speaker 1 (02:03:25):
Does do so.

Speaker 11 (02:03:26):
Next question, So anything in a will is basically considered
a gift and falls under the IRS rules for gift giving.

Speaker 1 (02:03:33):
Correct, right, Yes, okay, and it doesn't affect about ninety
nine percent of all estates people. As we've said before,
there are many people who believe that they have to
give under that sixteen thousand dollars limit in order for
not to pay tax, and that's not true. There is

(02:03:53):
no limit. Well, there is a limit, but it's like
sixteen million. Once you get to sixteen million and the
next dollar you give away is taxed.

Speaker 4 (02:04:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (02:04:02):
What it was tough for me when I hit that.

Speaker 2 (02:04:04):
When I hit that mark.

Speaker 1 (02:04:06):
That's sixteen million mark. Yeah, after that you start paying.
After that, you start paying taxes. So yeah, paperwork exactly
three oho three seven one three talk seven one three
eight two five five. What's on your mind? Well, since
we're talking about this, let me just put it out there.
Martino Capital, I formed it for one reason. I wanted

(02:04:26):
to harness the power of AI, the power of the Internet,
and the power of individuals. Working for individuals. We do
not purposely send your portfolios to giant portfolio managers and
make a middleman fee. Listen, if you have a financial advisor,
ninety eight percent of the time, it's not being managed

(02:04:50):
by that advisor. That advisor is doing nothing but collecting
a middleman fee for you, and you are being placed
in generic portfolios. And if you like it, okay, But
why would you want that generalized kind of investing. We're
asking you to take a review of what you have.
We'll go over everything you have piece by piece, and

(02:05:12):
trust me, if you have a wonderful thing going on,
we'll tell you. But if we can improve it and
show you with actual figures back tested three to five years,
we can let you know. Wouldn't you like that peace
of mind, and I've been helping people for fifty years
and what I've gotten there by is helping people. So

(02:05:35):
please give us a call at three O three seven
seven to one. Help. Don't just wait another day and saying,
oh you know, I'll just I'll just hold off. People
like to go out of sight out of mind three
O three seven seven one four three five seven or
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(02:06:00):
Excel roofing dot com. You don't pay a cent until
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In comparison, call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage
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three seven seven one help. You'll think you're his only
customer when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man

(02:06:22):
dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance three
oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two. Hi Tom Martino,
you're a troubleshooter three oh three seven one three talks
seven one three eight two five five. Okay, So Dan
McKenzie's with us, moy a wealth of information. Let's talk

(02:06:43):
to Rex. Rex, go ahead, what's on your mind today.

Speaker 17 (02:06:46):
Hey, if we got off into the weeds. Uh, there
is a difference. Uh if a guy gets a gift
as opposed to the beneficiary of a will.

Speaker 1 (02:07:01):
Now there's there's actually no difference.

Speaker 17 (02:07:05):
I beg your pardon.

Speaker 1 (02:07:06):
There actually is no difference, Rex, tax wise, Yes, my understanding.

Speaker 17 (02:07:14):
If you receive it as a beneficiary of a will,
you get a step up in basis a gift.

Speaker 1 (02:07:22):
Oh, okay, okay, I say, I thought you were talking
about income taxes. You're right, if you if you, uh,
if you, you're right. You're absolutely right. If you give
something of value to somebody before you die, they inherit
your basis, so they will have capital gains when they
sell it, whereas if you do it at the date

(02:07:46):
of death, you get that stepped up basis and therefore
would presumably have less profit when you sell it and
therefore would have less taxes. Yeah, that's for capital gain.
You're absolutely right. I was talking about giving away money.
Whether you give it away during your life or give
it away after you die, there is no tax on

(02:08:09):
it below the threshold of about sixteen million dollars. Right,
good show, Thank you, Rex. I appreciate the clarification. So
you're right, you should never if you want to minimize
tax implication, implic implicate implications, implications. I'm going to say
that is seven times. Now, if you want to diminish taxes,

(02:08:33):
how about that. What you do is you wait till
day of death, right, right, Dan, Because at the day
of death, the home that they inherit that gets they
get a stepped up basis. And that's even with a
beneficiary deed. Right What if you put a home in
the trust and the trust goes through probate, does it
still get the stepped up basis in the trust?

Speaker 2 (02:08:53):
Yeah, inheriting it death with probated trust or bene issue.

Speaker 1 (02:08:56):
Okay, I'm sorry, keep going say it again, saying.

Speaker 5 (02:09:00):
Beneficiary, deed, trust, the trust, all those are going to
get the step up in basis. The one exception is
if you use your vocal trust planning to get assets
out of your state during your lifetime, that can also
change the capital gain spaces.

Speaker 1 (02:09:13):
Okay, somebody was married to a guy ten years and divorced.
The step his kids want to know is she entitled
to anything she was married to him for ten years?
Whose kids or who's Okay, the biological kids of this
man want to know if his wife, his second wife

(02:09:36):
who was married for ten years since divorced.

Speaker 5 (02:09:39):
Okay, what happens now that divorce should sever any obligation
obligation Now he could have left her on beneficiary forms,
which can create a mess that happens.

Speaker 1 (02:09:49):
Oh yeah, can you go back and say this wasn't
meant to be?

Speaker 5 (02:09:54):
Yes, And there is a statute saying, look, if there's
a divorce, we're going to treat this as predisabled. It's
very complicated because a lot of the commpanies are outside
Colorado or they're just like, look, we're told to do this,
you know you.

Speaker 1 (02:10:04):
So people you need to know that you are. You
need to check your beneficiaries. So many people, you know,
they get their will and stuff done and they don't
realize that it's in conflict sometimes with the beneficiaries and
the beneficiaries should be in unison. So when how do
you do that? What would take precedent? If you forgot
to change the beneficiary on an account, but in your

(02:10:28):
will you left that account to somebody, but there's a
different beneficiary out.

Speaker 5 (02:10:31):
The beneficiary destinations take precedence of our will.

Speaker 1 (02:10:34):
What really, So if you have a will and you
leave your investment account to your son, and meanwhile, before
that you would put a beneficiary on there. That beneficiary
takes it first. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:10:48):
Yeah, it's a contract with that company, and the company
is going to say, you know, look, we were told
to do this. Here's what we're doing. Okay, So it
just doesn't get controlled by the will because it's out,
it's now, it's this.

Speaker 1 (02:10:59):
And here's another one. We get a lot of dan
I'm compositing a couple of them. I got okay that,
especially Wells Fargo for some reason, are giving people a
hell of a time to get access to bank accounts.
What's going on with that?

Speaker 2 (02:11:11):
I mean, are we telling like powers of attorney?

Speaker 6 (02:11:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:11:13):
I m's still alive. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:11:14):
Like I said earlier, it's getting harder and harder to
use powers of attorney. A lot of banks are very
nervous about it. And Wells Fargo, you know, yes.

Speaker 1 (02:11:21):
So what do you do if you're if your mother
or father are incapacitated and they give you a power
of attorney?

Speaker 17 (02:11:28):
What do you do?

Speaker 5 (02:11:29):
Yeah, if they won't accept it, you might have to
get a court to basically enforce it through a conservatorship.

Speaker 2 (02:11:34):
Right, So which is a big deal.

Speaker 1 (02:11:35):
So it is a can you ask, does Wells Fargo
have its own that it wants or why are they
putting up such a hard time? Have they been sued
over this? Maybe?

Speaker 6 (02:11:46):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:11:46):
Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 5 (02:11:47):
Think from their perspective, it's just like, look, I can
see that there's a power of attorney here. I can
see it signed and notarize this person signed it. We
don't know if they've done ten more since this one.
We don't know if someone's gonna show up tomorrow with
another one saying we want the same money. So they're
very nervous to hand out money when there's not really
any confirmation that the person is incapacitated. That this is

(02:12:08):
the most recent power of attorney. So some sympathy for
the position they're in.

Speaker 1 (02:12:13):
Okay, what documents should every adult have in addition to
the will? Do they need anything else?

Speaker 16 (02:12:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:12:21):
The power of attorney.

Speaker 5 (02:12:22):
I mean, you're more likely to have an incapacity event
than a death event, so the powers of attorney.

Speaker 1 (02:12:28):
So will my estate plan have a power of attorney
set up? Okay, that's part of the checklist uit for sure. Okay,
different than a trustee or could it be the same.

Speaker 5 (02:12:38):
I mean the trustee can only control assets titles of
the trust. But you know, stuff come up that is.
Can they be both though? Can they be my trustee?
Usually are yeah, yeah, okay. Is it best when you
said it might be both?

Speaker 1 (02:12:50):
Is it best to consolidate as many duties under one
person as possible? Or is that or should you spread
them ount?

Speaker 5 (02:12:58):
I like to have one person and be in charge
of most stuff. So yeah, Usually they are the personal representatives.
They can handle stuff outside the trust. If there's a trust,
then they're the trustees, so they just can kind of
cover everything. Otherwise you're coordinating between multiple people. There's obviously
more possibility for disagreement. You have administrative issues if you
have to get multiple people to sign forms.

Speaker 1 (02:13:18):
Like it's just a lot and somebody wanted to recap
about out of state ownership. They have property out of state.
Were you saying that that property has to be transferred
to Colorado's ownership? Well, no, I mean you can't. You can't,
but hold on. What they mean is the Colorado Trust.
If you have a Colorado trust, it can own out

(02:13:41):
of state property and it will own out of state
property if you need it to your trust and then
upon death, how is that treated? Then the trustee will
be in charge of that out of state property. Correct,
But it's still subject to the laws of that state.

Speaker 5 (02:14:00):
Yes, yes, but they should be able to do whatever
they need to do. Is that's transferred to a beneficiary
or sell it or whatever else, the trustee should be
able to do that.

Speaker 4 (02:14:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:14:08):
But a lot of states give foreign corporations and foreign
entities and foreign trust problems. They really do they make
They have all kinds of filing requirements every year, and
they charge them a lot of money to do it.
And I think it's just secret taxing. So when you
have an out of state property and you transfer it

(02:14:30):
to that trust, that trust, doesn't it have to be
domesticated in the state first?

Speaker 2 (02:14:37):
No, there might be some sort of record you need
to make.

Speaker 1 (02:14:41):
You need to register that trust, I think, with the state,
don't you. No? No, Okay, why is that? Because here's
the reason I'm asking. I had an LLC in Colorado
that owned real estate in another state. They wouldn't recognize
the LLC ownership of that unless I registered the LLC

(02:15:03):
with their state.

Speaker 5 (02:15:04):
Companies are different because okay, we don't like you register
an LLC here in Colorado, Like, you're not telling it
who the owner is, right, So, I mean there's no
public record of who that person is. And so the
challenge they're like they're worried about is like, look if
I if I'm operating as an LLC in another state.
Let's say I'm running a rental property in Kansas and

(02:15:27):
something happens or the person in that property wants to
sue me, Like, how are they going to do it?
If I haven't If I don't have someone in Kansas
who can receive the papers, there's no registered.

Speaker 2 (02:15:37):
Agent, they don't know who the owner is.

Speaker 5 (02:15:38):
Like, it's just it's you know, that's the issue because
LLCs are protecting you from liability or as trusts our
vocal trust does not protect you from liability. So the
benefit of not having that liability protection is you don't
have all these hoops to jump through like you do
with LSA.

Speaker 1 (02:15:53):
All right, we got to take this break. I'm Tom Martinez.
We got more coming up. Go with a sure thing
Denver's Best Roofer Excel Roofie. You don't pay a cent
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(02:16:15):
O three seven to seven to one. Help. You'll think
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Remax Alliance three oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.
All right, Tom Martino here, welcome. We have a few
minutes left to the show. We have Dan mackenzie with us.

(02:16:36):
I'll wrap up with a few of these questions. Can you, Distan, I.

Speaker 12 (02:16:41):
Have one more question?

Speaker 1 (02:16:43):
Okay, you can go ahead yours first quick? Okay, Dan, have.

Speaker 12 (02:16:46):
You heard of people charging a percentage to run the
trust a trust instead of like an hourly rate like
my charge two percent or three percent, kind of like
a realtor.

Speaker 2 (02:16:58):
I have heard of that.

Speaker 5 (02:16:59):
It's usually usually professionals doing that.

Speaker 1 (02:17:02):
Can you tell me so, it's it's the value of
the trust. They take a percentage. That does happen like
in assets under management?

Speaker 12 (02:17:08):
Almost yep, And ask what that percentage is?

Speaker 5 (02:17:12):
I mean, I don't see it very often, so I
don't really I don't really have an average, but it
can I mean, if it's one percent and you got
a one million dollars stay, which is very easy around
here with home value is the way they are.

Speaker 2 (02:17:25):
I mean that's ten thousand bucks, which is you know.

Speaker 1 (02:17:28):
My dad said he wants to disinherit his wife, his
second wife. It's not our mother. They've been married twenty
eight years. Can you disinherit her?

Speaker 5 (02:17:37):
I mean you can try, but if you do that
and she has it would have to be a spousal
election after you pass away and say, hey, I was
the wife, we are married twenty eight years, I'm entitled.

Speaker 2 (02:17:47):
What if she agrees to it, she's got to agree
in white and writing.

Speaker 1 (02:17:51):
Okay, yeah, So really it's not so easy to just
disinherit someone not a spouse, not anyone else you can
anyone else you can, yeah, okay. And then the other
one is what kinds of apps assets do you not
put in trust? Would be not apropos for trust?

Speaker 5 (02:18:10):
I usually so retirement accounts cannot be put into trust.
If you want to use a trust, get direct than
there through the beneficiary.

Speaker 1 (02:18:15):
For really, that's good to know.

Speaker 5 (02:18:17):
I usually do not put cars in trusts if it's
if they're worth more than the eighty eight thousand bucks
then you got an issue. But in general that creates
some insurance issues that we don't like to deal with.
But other than that, you can be pretty thorough.

Speaker 1 (02:18:31):
And then so that's typically avoid probate. Okay, so what
kind of assets do you not want in probate?

Speaker 5 (02:18:40):
I think anything that requires like ongoing. Like again, we
talked about businesses, especially where it's like somebody's got to
get control of this thing, and it might take at
least a few weeks, sometimes longer to be clear about
who that is. If there's a challenge about who the
personal representative is, it's going.

Speaker 2 (02:18:57):
To be months.

Speaker 1 (02:18:57):
But the trustee doesn't all automatically come in, say and
run the business. You can theoretically have someone run your business.

Speaker 2 (02:19:05):
And have a trustee you have knowledge about how.

Speaker 1 (02:19:08):
To do so, you could have a GM of your
business who now takes orders from the trustee after your demise, right.

Speaker 2 (02:19:14):
Just like the owner. Yeah, just like an owner.

Speaker 1 (02:19:17):
See so really all that's changing, And I say all
that change, it's the actual ownership control.

Speaker 6 (02:19:22):
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:19:23):
The ownership control is under the guy who created the trust,
right or the gal who created the trust and then
upon death it goes to the trustee and that trustee.
Then has is it a fiduciary? Are you responsibility? What
kind of responsibility?

Speaker 5 (02:19:39):
Yeah, trustees have fiduciary duties to the decease, make sure
that that business right. It just doesn't run into the ground.
Because they weren't doing anything right. So they got to
make sure. If they don't know how to run the business,
they got to do their best to find a manager
or sell it or do it.

Speaker 1 (02:19:53):
And then they asked here, this is the last question here,
can you get rid of a trustee? We had that
earlier in the show too. How do you get rid
of a trustee? Does every trust have a mechanism for that?

Speaker 2 (02:20:04):
Not necessarily? So, yeah, that's the state law.

Speaker 1 (02:20:08):
Does is it something good to put in the trust?
Oh yeah, oh yeah, okay, yeah, in case there's an
offense conflict, yep, all right, that's uh mackenzie man. We
had a great day for him. A three three co
plans are three co plans or co plans dot co
and don't forget three to oh three Martino join us

(02:20:28):
for car Day tomorrow.