The Troubleshooter 3-6-25

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Ripped off, bad news, need advice?

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Who you don't have? Come running just as fast as
we can.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Shooter's gonna help.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
Come man, this is.

Speaker 4 (00:20):
The Troubleshooter Show.

Speaker 5 (00:22):
No Tom Martinez, welcome, Welcome.

Speaker 4 (00:25):
To the show. And as you know, it's the only
show of it's kind.

Speaker 6 (00:28):
We're here to solve your problems, answer complaints and uh
I'm sorry, take your complaints and recoup your money.

Speaker 4 (00:35):
That's my favorite part.

Speaker 6 (00:36):
You got a bad contractor out there and basically need help.
We use the power of the media. Think about that.
We use this big radio tower. In fact, I think
our radio tower the KOA ones in Parker. I'm not
actually sure where ky House is, but we use that
tower to broadcast and warn people of bad, bad guys
out there, bad landlords, bad people in general. If you

(00:58):
go to Sleavesbrigade dot com, you'll see a lot of
the worst of the worst. We do have lines open.
We just started the show. I've got a great guest today,
Brad O'Brien. Welcome to the show. Brad, of course, is
an attorney anything real estate. I guess that's probably the
best way to push it. Commercial residential closing docs, property

(01:19):
line disputes anything, right, I mean, really, Brad, is there
anything in real estate you guys don't do over it
your firm.

Speaker 7 (01:29):
I suppose that there's environmental damage.

Speaker 8 (01:30):
We don't really do too much of that, but we
do help people buy and sell real estate, both residential
and commercial. And there's a dispute and involving real estate, we
get involved in that, even go to court.

Speaker 6 (01:39):
Yeah, absolutely, So yeah, you'll go to court and you'll
fight and you'll litigate, right, yes, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:44):
And there's a lot of people.

Speaker 6 (01:45):
It's kind of funny a lot of attorneys, some attorneys
really never go into court ever.

Speaker 8 (01:50):
I mean really in real estate, A lot of attorneys
pick one side or the other transactions or litigation, but
I actually straddle into both.

Speaker 4 (01:57):
You do both. You know who else does that? Is
election attorneys.

Speaker 6 (02:01):
I'm trying to I'm helping my sister in law in Georgia,
and I'm trying to find her the right attorney out there.
And I'm finding that a lot of collection attorneys, not
collection agencies, but attorneys not only will they collect for you,
but they'll also help defend collections from you. And I
didn't realize that. I figured they'd just be one or
the other. But I'm finding a lot of firms they

(02:23):
do literally both, which makes sense, and I like the
fact you do that.

Speaker 8 (02:27):
Well, I'm not a plaintiff attorney or a defendant attorney,
whichever side calls me first. Like a landlord's situation, if
the tenant calls me first, I'll represent the tenant. Wise,
I'll represent the landlord if they call me first.

Speaker 6 (02:37):
And the problem with that, it's not that it's a problem.
I know you do that, but generally speaking, the tenant
is probably facing eviction. That would be your probably your
number one call from a tenant, yeah, yeah, And then
what happens is generally it's because of non payment.

Speaker 4 (02:54):
And tell me if I'm wrong.

Speaker 6 (02:55):
I'm just saying your average, your average call from a tenant.

Speaker 8 (03:00):
Right facing eviction or some type of problem, just be
with the landlord. There's a lot of tenant rights out
there now.

Speaker 6 (03:07):
Of course, but generally, I guess where I'm going with
this is there's generally no money. So because they haven't
paid the rent, there's no money, so there's no money
to really retain an attorney.

Speaker 4 (03:17):
Doesn't that happen quite a bit?

Speaker 6 (03:19):
I mean, just the fact they haven't paid their rent
is meaning they don't have the money.

Speaker 4 (03:24):
Most likely.

Speaker 8 (03:24):
Yeah, I get more commercial tenants calling me for assessions
than residential because they have more money.

Speaker 6 (03:32):
And I got you and then bigger dollars. Yet not
only bigger dollars. But let me give the phone number
out by the way. Anybody has any questions complaints, we'd
love to dive in.

Speaker 4 (03:40):
I've also got.

Speaker 6 (03:41):
Deputy Dimitri's here, Deputy Doc, my lovely wife Suzanne Kelly.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
And who do we have today? Is it Dragon? Dragon?
Real quick?

Speaker 6 (03:49):
How come I'm havvy? We're Shannon? Why is he always
there now?

Speaker 9 (03:53):
Because of the way schedules are we have a board
ofth that's out on vacation.

Speaker 4 (03:56):
So oh okay, I got it.

Speaker 6 (03:58):
Someone's on vacation. So we will go back to the
old way again, correct at some point?

Speaker 4 (04:02):
All right?

Speaker 6 (04:02):
Three oh three seven one three eight two five five.
Love to talk to you now, three zero three Martino
three oh three seven one three eight two five five,
Go ahead.

Speaker 10 (04:11):
Document, I say we got something out, Brad.

Speaker 11 (04:13):
This guy is going to look like he's twenty five
when he's ninety years old. He's the youngest looking guy
I've ever seen.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
I think he looks good he doesn't look like a baby.

Speaker 11 (04:25):
No, no, but he's gonna look I'm telling you thirty
years old when he's ninety.

Speaker 6 (04:29):
I'm not sure if Doc's hitting on you over here,
I'm not sure what's going on. No, I know it's
a compliment Doc. So where I was going with that, though,
Brad is basically this A lot of the people that
call you, Oh we went to the commercial thing.

Speaker 4 (04:42):
I already asked you that. So on the commercial side.

Speaker 6 (04:45):
If the company's not paying, I mean, whatever it is
in office building or an office suite that someone's running,
they're not paying, there's generally a personal guarantee attached to it, right.

Speaker 7 (04:55):
A lot of times on commercial yes, And that's.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
And so there's other people to go after.

Speaker 6 (05:00):
I mean, so when you go, when you're actually working
for the tenant, what do you generally do? What's your
biggest call for the tenants side?

Speaker 7 (05:08):
Up front? I help people negotiate their leases.

Speaker 8 (05:11):
Commercial leases are very long, fifteen to fifty pages, a
lot to go through. I highly recommend an attorney on
all commercial leases.

Speaker 6 (05:18):
Yeah, because in fact, if you've never leased before, I've
leased a lot of buildings, but my god, if you
just look at cam charges. You really got to understand
that you might be paying a certain amount right now.
Then all of a sudden you're at that triple net
goes up, and I mean, your lease can go a
big time. Do a lot of people come to you
after the fact and basically say, hey, you know they're

(05:39):
trying to charge me more.

Speaker 8 (05:42):
Now, I suppose if real estate taxes go up in
a big way, then I'm want to talk about that.

Speaker 6 (05:51):
Now, how about on the other side, the landlords? Well,
hold on, I still want to go on the tenant side.
How about tenants to call you that aren't commercial, that
are residential a house or running a duplex or a condo,
whatever it is, an apartment, what what is that typical?
Cause that more what I was describing.

Speaker 8 (06:09):
The calls I get are more about the habitability and
the condition of the premises.

Speaker 6 (06:12):
So they might say, hey, we've got mold here and
they're not doing anything about it.

Speaker 7 (06:16):
It's a very common one.

Speaker 8 (06:17):
Water damage or secure like the management person that keeps
walking in without without knocking or without notice, you know,
just trampling on their rights.

Speaker 6 (06:26):
And how do you Okay, and that's fair, they're trampling
on their rights, But how do you help somebody like that.

Speaker 4 (06:31):
Generally, do they have money.

Speaker 7 (06:33):
Well, and they're welcome to retain me.

Speaker 8 (06:35):
And if if they want to spend money on an attorney,
but I do give a free initial consultation and try
to steal people in the right direction.

Speaker 7 (06:42):
You know, generally, what do you.

Speaker 6 (06:44):
Do if it's something like mold and you know, really
the first thing you do is what tell them to
hire someone to get a multi test.

Speaker 8 (06:50):
The first thing is not a legal question at all.
It's a safety question. You know, it's their personal safety
and health. If it's if it's a toxic situation and
they have a baby, maybe they shouldn't be there.

Speaker 7 (06:59):
Walified out.

Speaker 4 (07:00):
You know.

Speaker 6 (07:00):
We've got one we're doing at ten thirty today and
I'm going to tell you about it real quick. This
girl Tiffany called this woman Tiffany, and she rented.

Speaker 4 (07:11):
Out her house. Okay.

Speaker 6 (07:13):
Her husband passed away about eighteen months ago, and she
moved from their house up in up in the mountains, Okay.
And she moved from there to an apartment and rented
out to house follow me so far or moved in
with a friend something along those terms, and rented out
to house. She rented it out for approximately three months.

Speaker 4 (07:35):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (07:37):
After the three months, the tenants said, we want out
of the lease. Okay, And the reason we want out
of the lease is there's toxic mold. Apparently someone came
out and did a test and there wasn't toxic mold.

Speaker 4 (07:52):
But here's where it went. They hired, they moved out.
They hired an attorney or retained an attorney. Hell, they
might be the attorney, I don't know. And they filed
a lawsuit against her and are trying to, what I say,
shake her down for twenty five thousand. They tried to
shake her down, the attorneys saying, pay me twenty five

(08:12):
will make this go away. If not, we're going to
file a lawsuit against you because my clients got injured
because of the mold spores in your house. Now where
it kit's interesting, as generally speaking, you would turn all
this over to your insurance company and they would represent you.
But I have a feeling and we're going to find

(08:33):
out because I sent her policy over to one of
our experts that her policy might not only exclude mold,
but worse than that. Worse than that is she never
converted that policy to a landlord tenant policy. She kept
it as if she was the only you know, she
lives there, it's her primary residence.

Speaker 8 (08:54):
Well, the fact that the owner in landlord doesn't have
the right coven insurance has no effect on the on
the tennis rights.

Speaker 4 (09:02):
No, I'm not talking about the tenant. Tiffany's the landlord.

Speaker 7 (09:05):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (09:05):
So she's the landlord and the tenants you're suing her.

Speaker 8 (09:09):
Okay, Well, we have a statch in Colorado that gives
tennants a lot of rights in the case of water
damage and mold. Yes, water damage that could cause mold.
You don't necessarily have to prove that there is mold. Yeah,
but there is a water condition.

Speaker 10 (09:20):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (09:21):
Hold on, we're going to go to her after this.
We're going to talk to her and we're going to
get her expert on Brian Burns too. So everybody holds tight.

Speaker 12 (09:34):
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dot com. You don't pay a cent until you're content.
Time for an insurance check up free, no obligation. In comparison,
call Compass insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
of insurance companies find out now three oh three, seven
to seven to one help. You'll think you're his only

(09:55):
customer when you choose Frank durand the real estate man
dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance three
oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.

Speaker 6 (10:07):
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ten grand waterpros dot net. Now, so here's where we're
going to go with this. We got a couple things going.
I got Tiffany on. I'm going to bring Tiffany up first.
So Tiffany is a caller from yesterday. Her husband passed

(11:13):
away about eighteen months ago. She moved out of the
family house. She rented the house out. How long did
they were they in there, Tiffany, They were in there
from September to basically January fifteenth.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
If I recall.

Speaker 6 (11:26):
Yeah, so they were in there and they were paying rent.
The first time or the first time they complained or
brought up an issue was when roughly.

Speaker 4 (11:36):
With the mold.

Speaker 13 (11:37):
It was December twenty seventh.

Speaker 6 (11:40):
So on December twenty seventh, how did they contact you?

Speaker 4 (11:43):
Did they just call you or what?

Speaker 2 (11:45):
No?

Speaker 13 (11:46):
They texted me with about twenty photos okay, and then
when I tried to call them immediately, they said we
would like to proceed with texting from here on out.
So it just kind of seems fishy.

Speaker 6 (11:55):
Well okay, but hold on. So they said that, and
they sent you pictures of the mold. And that was
on December twenty seventh. When did you have someone or
when did they have someone come out and actually test
the mold, and did you do it or did they
do it?

Speaker 13 (12:12):
They did it and they had someone come out December twentieth,
So I was unaware.

Speaker 6 (12:16):
Oh so they tested before they even contacted you about it. Yeah, okay,
So what what did you actually see the results.

Speaker 14 (12:27):
Yet?

Speaker 6 (12:28):
And what did the results say? They basically said, there's
no mold.

Speaker 13 (12:32):
Yeah, yeah, basically, well it was a you know, a
mold that was not found in the air.

Speaker 14 (12:37):
You know, it wasn't it was it wasn't airborne.

Speaker 13 (12:41):
It wasn't airborne, and it wasn't it wasn't hazarded hazard
as to anybody's health.

Speaker 6 (12:48):
Okay, it was non hazardous, I get it. So, yeah,
where was it? Was it all over the house in
the basement.

Speaker 13 (12:55):
No, so they had taken pictures saying that it was
all over my house okay, And the only spot that
it was found was in my laundry room and it
was just from a from a pipe that had leaked
and I had got it fixed from a plumber and
then it just kind of progressed.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (13:11):
So then after after the twenty seventh when they just
wanted to text back and forth.

Speaker 4 (13:16):
What was the next thing that happened?

Speaker 13 (13:19):
They basically, without getting the results backed, they said that
they were wanting to move out January. First, they had
they had texted me.

Speaker 4 (13:27):
Then what did you say, fine, go ahead or what.

Speaker 13 (13:31):
I said, depending on the results. We don't have the
results of what type of mold it is. Okay, you know,
if it was bad and they needed to get out.

Speaker 4 (13:38):
So what where did that end up from there?

Speaker 15 (13:45):
God like?

Speaker 6 (13:45):
Because I know they left on the sixteenth of January, right, yes,
So see what happened in between? Did they just pack
up and leave? Did you give them permission to break
the least?

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Where?

Speaker 4 (13:54):
Did you guys leave it? In each other's eyes?

Speaker 16 (13:57):
No?

Speaker 13 (13:57):
And that that was the scary part. I think they
are wanting. They were trying to get me to verbally
say that they could move out by the first So
I never really verbally said they could break the lease.
But I did say if they felt that their health
was declining, I wasn't keeping them there, that they had
the choice to move out. They felt like their health
was bad, So.

Speaker 4 (14:16):
What happened They just moved out?

Speaker 13 (14:19):
No, So they basically said we're going to stay here
the entire month of January and you can use our
last month's rent as rent, and we're not going to.

Speaker 17 (14:29):
Be we expect or.

Speaker 13 (14:32):
They kind of went back and forth. They said they
were going to move out, then they said they were
going to stay. Then they said they were going to
move out, but they wanted their entire month last month's
rent returned to them, plus their deposits.

Speaker 4 (14:42):
So where did it end up?

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Though?

Speaker 4 (14:44):
What actually happened?

Speaker 13 (14:45):
So I had they didn't pay rent on the first
they attempted to pay rent. They tried to pay five
dollars into my account.

Speaker 4 (14:57):
They attempted to give you five dollars.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, okay, and.

Speaker 13 (15:01):
I guess that's waters like that's the renters squatter, right, seeing,
I guess was what I was told for my attorney.

Speaker 6 (15:06):
So he well, hold on, hold on, Brad O'Brien real quick.
Why would they try to transfer just five bucks? Is
that like an old wives tale?

Speaker 7 (15:15):
That's about? I don't know what that's about.

Speaker 6 (15:17):
So you never I mean, if if someone pays partial rent,
I don't care if it's a quarter or half the rent.
I mean they still didn't pay their rent still, right?
Or has Colorado changed something?

Speaker 8 (15:27):
If there's a habitability situation the tennis still has to
pay the rent at the same time that the landlord
has a bunch of duties things to do to remediate
the issue. But the only time that a tendant can
withhold rent is if if they've give give landlord plenty
of notice to fix it. The landlord didn't do it,
and then the tenant got None of.

Speaker 4 (15:43):
That has happened, at least from this side of the story.

Speaker 6 (15:46):
So okay, so they tried to give you five bucks
or whatever, then what happened?

Speaker 13 (15:52):
So basically, I just I had got an attorney at
that point because seems seem it.

Speaker 4 (15:56):
Felt to me, Yeah, the whole thing's crazy.

Speaker 13 (16:00):
They were trying to build a cake. So what happened Immediately?
If I got an attorney. He advised me to just
accept a check or cash in person and advise them
of that that I was shutting down them being able
to go to my bank and put cash into my account.
So I did that via the attorney, and sure enough

(16:20):
they the very next day they tried to go into
the bank and the manager had notated on the account
not to accept any form of payment, and they were yelling,
throwing a fit, and they had they were trying to
the managers that they were trying to deposit five dollars
cash into my account, which, according to my attorney, that

(16:40):
is the way of you know, any form of payment,
whether it's five dollars, twenty dollars, the form out it
could be considered.

Speaker 6 (16:47):
So far, so far, I think these guys are just
scamming you. I mean, so far, That's what I'm thinking.
But so I still want to go to the next part.
I'm really trying to get there. So what happened they?
Why did they move out on the sixty where in
your eyes?

Speaker 4 (17:01):
What happened?

Speaker 13 (17:03):
So my attorney this advised me to let them know
if they didn't pay run by the first that we
would start the eviction process. So we did, and they
they got served in a viction notice or the start
of an eviction not yea, So the.

Speaker 6 (17:18):
Ten day notice, right, Brad? Would it be a ten
day notice or a twenty what is the notice?

Speaker 4 (17:25):
Now?

Speaker 7 (17:25):
Non payment a round as a ten day notice.

Speaker 6 (17:27):
So the ten day notice then, so they put that
on the door. Whatever you guys did, then what yees?
They packed up and left?

Speaker 13 (17:34):
Yeah, they got an attorney and then I'm assuming their
attorney advised them to move out because they were out
before the eviction papers could be served to them.

Speaker 4 (17:44):
Okay, I get it.

Speaker 6 (17:45):
I get it up to there, so then they moved out.
Now hold on, I got to take this break. I'm
going to come back.

Speaker 4 (17:49):
There's two parts of this.

Speaker 6 (17:50):
We're going to dive into the first part because Brian
Burns has been he's one of our experts on the insurance.
Generally speaking, if somebody gets injured in your house, follow
me down the road here. If someone gets injured in
your house and you call your insurance company or they
sue you, let's go right to that. Someone sues you

(18:11):
because they think it's your issue, you're liable for it.
You simply hand it over to your insurance company, your homeowners,
and they will defend you. They will either settle, but
no matter what, they'll defend you. That's how it generally works.
The problem is, I don't think she's got the right
kind of coverage to where she ultimately did get sued

(18:33):
according to Tiffany, which we're going to get into after this,
But ultimately I don't think she has any insurance and
Brian Burns looked over her entire policy and we're.

Speaker 4 (18:43):
Gonna find out if she has coverage after this.

Speaker 12 (18:51):
Go with a sure thing Denver's Best roofer Excelroofing dot com.
You don't pay a cent until you're content. Time for
an insurance checkup free, no obligation. In comparison, call Compass
Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens of insurance
companies find out now three oh three seven to seven
to one.

Speaker 4 (19:11):
Help.

Speaker 12 (19:12):
You'll think you're his only customer when you choose Frank
durand the real estate Man dot com to list your
home with Remax Alliance three oh three nine two zero
sixteen twenty two.

Speaker 4 (19:22):
All right three o three seven one three eight two
five five. A couple lines open.

Speaker 6 (19:26):
We're gonna help Tiffany out here three zero three seven
one three eight two five five. Any questions, complaints you
want to rat out a bad contractor I'd love to
hear it. Brian Burns. They sent you over Tiffany's basically
lease with her tenant and the insurance policy, and you
would have nothing to do with the lease actually, but
the UH insurance policy.

Speaker 4 (19:46):
A couple things here.

Speaker 6 (19:47):
One, if you rent out your house and you don't
have a landlord tenant insurance policy, will you even get
coverage period.

Speaker 9 (19:57):
No, I think she's going to have a really uphill
you know, whenever you have an incorrect policy like this.
So it looks like she just has a home insurance policy. Yeah,
yet she's renting it out. Now, if the home, let's say,
you know, God forbid it burned down, the insurance company
wouldn't be able to decline based off of the fact
there was a tenant in it, because it wasn't necessarily

(20:19):
the reason behind.

Speaker 4 (20:20):
Her So she would add coverage to a catastrophe.

Speaker 9 (20:25):
Yeah, so here, here's a good way to think of it.
Having the tenant or whatever it is in this case.
In this case it is a tenant. If having the
tenant isn't the cause of loss, the insurance company would
have a hard time declining or denying a claim off
of that.

Speaker 6 (20:42):
Okay, But now on the liability side, because they're basically saying,
she didn't do her job as a landlord and there
was mold and now she has some form of damages,
which we don't even know what they are, but that's
what they're claiming. Typically speaking, if she had the right
kind of insurance, what would happen.

Speaker 9 (21:00):
If she had the right kind of insurance they're depending
and the Travelers is who she's with. But depending on
the policy, you could have limited coverage. Now, the actual
damage amount is very limited. I see five thousand dollars
on some policies. But what you really want is something
that will allow coverage for the lawsuit for the actual

(21:22):
legal fees. And so if there's coverage, they have to defend.
And it doesn't really matter if the coverage is only
five thousand dollars.

Speaker 6 (21:29):
If there is coverage, they have to defend, so they
have to pay the attorney feess hold one.

Speaker 4 (21:36):
That's very interesting.

Speaker 6 (21:37):
So even if the lawsuit, if you hired an attorney,
could be fifty thousand dollars, but you only have five
thousand dollars in coverage, they still have to spend fifty
five thousand.

Speaker 4 (21:46):
If they lost.

Speaker 9 (21:48):
There you go yep, So they still have to defend. Now,
what happens when you have very limited amount, they'll sometimes
settle them.

Speaker 4 (21:53):
Well, now let's go back time.

Speaker 6 (21:55):
The fact that she had the wrong kind of coverage,
she just had a typical homeowners Does that give them
one hundred percent in out where they don't have to
step in at all? And then I'll follow that with
the second question, is there any exclusions in her policy
that talk about mold and damages like this?

Speaker 9 (22:14):
Well, okay, so the first part of your question, I
would say, yes, they're going to have a good case
to get out of this from the simple fact that
if it's a homewner policy, you can't sue yourself, so
you're not that coverage isn't even there. Yeah, so having
a tenant in this case dramatically changes.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
The risk, got it?

Speaker 9 (22:33):
And they're not going to cover something that's dramatically different
than what the policy's written for. But secondly, what you
sent me is essentially a declaration page, so it's not
policy language, so I can't read the exclusions. You read
her policy for exclusions. If you want to send me
the full policy, I'd be happy to read it and
I'll find it.

Speaker 4 (22:51):
I do want to clarify on one thing.

Speaker 6 (22:53):
So if there was a fire or a hailstorm, they
probably would have coverage. But because this is a tenant
and claiming that she would is not a good landlord,
they can fight that and probably win it. But when
you brought up the coverage aspect to that, what happens
if I had someone living with me?

Speaker 4 (23:09):
For like I don't know.

Speaker 6 (23:12):
Like if Doc Doc's house burned down in a Boulder
fire and he moved in with me for six months
and there was mold in the room that I let
Doc stay in and all of a sudden he's suing me.
I would have coverage under that scenario, or at least
they would have to defend me, is probably the better question.

Speaker 9 (23:31):
Yeah, I mean it's really hard because the whole issue
of mold is crazy, is a crazy one, and so
insurance companies have really started to write their policies associated
with limiting themselves for things that they can't control. But
in this case, an accidental you know, in that case.

Speaker 6 (23:50):
What's really crazy in this case, though, is none of
that's really gonna matter because she probably has zero coverage. So, Tiffany,
have you even you haven't even talked to your homeowner
about this or I'm not sorry your your insurance company
about this at all?

Speaker 3 (24:03):
Right?

Speaker 13 (24:05):
I just filed a claim for the you know, when
I got an estimate on how much it was going
to cost to fix the drywall and everything.

Speaker 4 (24:11):
And they did that, right, or they haven't even answered
the claim yet.

Speaker 13 (24:15):
They have something going out today. But I did lightly
bring it up you know, Hey, yeah, you're.

Speaker 6 (24:20):
I think you heard everything Brian just said. I don't
think you're going to have any coverage as far as
the insurance company defending you in the lawsuit.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
Do you know what it says in the lawsuit? By
the way, it.

Speaker 13 (24:33):
Just mainly they they're going after me for in habitable
living conditions to where they had to break the lease
and move. So they're suing me not only for like
basically for that health stuff and then covering their rent
for them.

Speaker 4 (24:50):
How much how much are we talking? Do you even know?

Speaker 13 (24:54):
If my attorney said anywhere from fifty to seventy thousand dollars,
so they're.

Speaker 6 (24:58):
Sooner for fifty to seventy thousand. Hey, First of all,
Brian Burns, I really appreciate you coming on. I know
you're at an insurance conference and you got to get
back to it, and I do appreciate it, Brian. But
the Insurance helps Center, these guys will look at all
your coverages.

Speaker 4 (25:14):
They'll look at them every year.

Speaker 6 (25:15):
They'll shop multiple companies find the best company for you.
For example, if you have young drivers in the house,
these guys will find the best policy to have the
cheapest for you. Three oh three nine ninety six nine thousand,
and I shouldn't have said cheapest the best coverage three
oh three nine nine six nine thousand.

Speaker 4 (25:33):
Hey, get back to that conference, man, have fun.

Speaker 7 (25:35):
Oh, I see the mark.

Speaker 6 (25:37):
Thanks so so basically Tiffany Brad O'Brien. So they're saying
fifty to seventy thousand dollars, let's talk about Tiffany.

Speaker 4 (25:47):
You don't know the breakdown.

Speaker 6 (25:48):
You have no idea what the breakdown is, because yes,
yeah I do.

Speaker 13 (25:52):
It's attorney that includes attorney fees, that includes they are
saying they want three months of their rent covered. Uh,
they want food. They want basically room and board, food,
everything covered for being put out of their current living
of the current living situation due to inhabitable conditions.

Speaker 6 (26:14):
And how much is the health part? Do you ask
the health aspect of it?

Speaker 13 (26:19):
They didn't break that down, so that was more of
I think the strong arming cart trying to scare me.
They never really went to the doctor. They just sent pictures.
You know, my house is at eleven thousand feet, so
that's you're going to have, you know, and especially in
the winter time that dryness, you're going to have some
blood in your in your finesses. Yeah, so they were

(26:40):
sending me no.

Speaker 4 (26:40):
I yeah, I get all that. In the mold test
came back negative, right exactly.

Speaker 13 (26:47):
But they were just sending me those are the only
health pictures quote quote health pictures there.

Speaker 4 (26:53):
So hold on, we're going to we're going to take
this break.

Speaker 6 (26:55):
Brad's got some questions here and thoughts on it, and
I've got my own thoughts, and I I just think
it's a shakedown.

Speaker 4 (27:02):
But you're gonna have to do something.

Speaker 6 (27:03):
That's the bottom line, even if they are shaking you down,
if they filed the lawsuit, as soon as you get served, you're.

Speaker 4 (27:09):
Gonna have to answer it. And it's not gonna be cheap.

Speaker 12 (27:18):
Go with a sure thing Denver's best roofer Excel roofing
dot com.

Speaker 15 (27:22):
You don't pay a cent until you're contenth.

Speaker 12 (27:27):
Time for an insurance check up free no obligation comparison
call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
of insurance companies find out Now three oh three, seven
to seven to one help.

Speaker 15 (27:38):
You'll think you're his only customer.

Speaker 12 (27:40):
When you choose Frank durand the Real estate Man dot
com to list your home with Remax Alliance three oh
three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.

Speaker 6 (27:52):
All right, three oh three seven one three eight two
five five three oh three Martino brand O'Brien, I'm gonna
bring Tiffany back up and let's just kind of get
through this once and for all. What are your thoughts
on it? To me, it's a complete shakedown. They found
an attorney and this is just my opinion, an unscrupulous
attorney that is basically doing the shakedown.

Speaker 4 (28:15):
That's what I think.

Speaker 8 (28:17):
Well, when somebody is suing you for money, there's two components. First,
is there causation, Did something that you do cause them
injury or damage? And secondly, on damages, what are the damages?
What are they from? They can't just make up a
number and say I'm suing you for fifty thousand, yeah,
when it might perhaps if they do have a reason

(28:37):
for damages, it probably should be limited to something like,
you know, alternative housing or the cost to move early,
or whatever it is has me tied to something, not
just some made up number.

Speaker 7 (28:46):
But back to causation.

Speaker 8 (28:49):
You know, if they want to take this to court,
they're gonna have to prove to a judge or jury
that this mold caused them some sickness or injury, and
that's really hard to prove. You'd have to have expert
testimony from a doctor probably to make that.

Speaker 7 (29:03):
That's a very extensive type of a quirkeet.

Speaker 4 (29:05):
That's where I go back to the shakedown.

Speaker 6 (29:07):
But at a curiosity, Tiffany, was it a frozen pipe?

Speaker 4 (29:10):
What would happen?

Speaker 13 (29:11):
It was last year, so it was you know, nobody
wrote the plumber didn't really know. We just fixed the issue.
It was a trusted summer and the issue was fixed.
It just either according to the environmental report, it could
have been something that started from that, or this is
another big thing that I should bring that could have
been causing the mold. They were doing taxidermy in my

(29:34):
house and so that was also notated in the environmental report,
and they were unhappy about that, and they actually.

Speaker 4 (29:41):
They were unhappy that ended up in the report.

Speaker 6 (29:45):
Yeah, and how would I'm just curious, how would taxidermy,
how would stuffing a whatever?

Speaker 4 (29:50):
How would that create mold?

Speaker 13 (29:53):
They had from the report they had dead animals hanging
in my house.

Speaker 8 (29:57):
Oh my god, they're probably using chemicals like fromaldehyde, all
kinds of well they have to Yeah, that's not good
for the air exactly.

Speaker 13 (30:03):
So in the report they said that that could have
been contributing to them mold as well.

Speaker 4 (30:07):
Well, I don't think they'd be able to prove it.

Speaker 6 (30:10):
And this is just all thoughts. But when they here's
where I keep going back and I feel.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
Horrible for it.

Speaker 6 (30:17):
They filed the case already, right, Yeah, so she's going
to get served.

Speaker 4 (30:22):
Did you already get served today or what?

Speaker 13 (30:25):
I have not been served yet because I'm in the
attorney I did have was like, this is kind of
I just do a viction.

Speaker 14 (30:32):
Yeah, I recommend.

Speaker 6 (30:33):
That's what we were talking about, litigator, That's what we
were talking about. So really, where I want to get
real with you, Tiffany, is this They're going to serve
you and you're going to have to hire an attorney.
I mean, there's no way you're going to walk into court.
You could end up losing that house. But I want
to ask you a few things, and Brad, this is
what kills me. I really truly believe it's a shakedown.
In fact, I think they're just they might have been

(30:55):
set up from the start. Well, I mean, but she
doesn't have the money to defend this, So I mean,
what does someone do in a case like this, And
I got my own thoughts on it, but I want
to hear yours. Let's pretend she's served tomorrow. She's they
already filed it. You can go on to Lexus Andexas
and it's filed. They just got a server and she's

(31:16):
going to have to hire a counsel or basically answer
the complaint.

Speaker 4 (31:20):
But she's not going to know what to do. She
could get herself into deep trouble.

Speaker 8 (31:24):
Anyone contemplating being in a court case has to make
a business decision about whether the cost of attorneys and
experts and other court costs is worth the effort of
trying to win that case.

Speaker 6 (31:35):
Yeah, I mean it's crazy, But is there any way
if you go we talked frivolous, a frivolous lawsuit. People
might say this is but if there's anything my understanding,
if there's anything at all, meaning you know, it's possible
they had a relationship, they had a contract, so it
can't be frivolous in most cases.

Speaker 4 (31:55):
Would you agree?

Speaker 8 (31:56):
Yeah, Frivolous is a very strong word. It means absolutely
devoid of any basis. In fact, if it's if there's
some inkling of some facts that are in dispute that
would that could be called a colorable claim, and that's
a colorable claim is maybe not a strong claim, but
it's some minimal amount of claim that makes it not frivolous.

Speaker 6 (32:13):
So so I guess where I'm going is her shaking
her down? I mean, Dimitri, you and I have both
gone to small claim scored a lot of times and
if suited people, and we're somewhat familiar. We're not attorneys,
but I mean we've been around this black we do
this show.

Speaker 4 (32:26):
So I mean, what's your what's your take on all
this so far?

Speaker 16 (32:30):
Well, you asked really two questions about what my experience
is like and whether or not I'm concerned about being
charged with credibly charged with frivolous actions, right, so I'm
extremely concerned about that. I make sure that I have
backup documentation for every claim I make. Yeah, Now, in
her case, I mean, it's it's hard to say whether

(32:52):
or not it's actually frivolous. I don't think they're going
to complaint without having read the complaint itself.

Speaker 6 (32:57):
I don't think this. I don't think they would. I
don't think this would get thrown out. I think she's
going to end up hiring an attorney. Tiffany, what is
your economic situation? It's not great, is it.

Speaker 13 (33:08):
I mean it's you know, how.

Speaker 4 (33:10):
Much echoity do you have in that house?

Speaker 13 (33:13):
A pretty good amount. I'm just worried, like I don't
want I don't want to lose the house, you know,
because that's that's an asset of mine. But with Brian's passing,
you know, I was thinking about it just because I
would like to maybe relocate. But that was the only reason.
But as far as I am in the I.

Speaker 14 (33:32):
Am in the.

Speaker 13 (33:33):
Process of hiring someone. I do have someone that is
overlooking the case and everything. So I have to give
chin a you know, an agreement to hire her, right,
I'm not really.

Speaker 4 (33:44):
What is it?

Speaker 6 (33:45):
Is it a personal injury attorney? What kind of attorney?

Speaker 13 (33:49):
Real estate litigator?

Speaker 4 (33:51):
Hold on a second, hold on, Tiffany, I got it.

Speaker 6 (33:54):
This is a hard break, by the way, people three
O three seven one three eight two five five. We
want to hear from you. You're complain to your questions.
Three oh three Martino, another hour coming up.

Speaker 12 (34:07):
Go with a sure thing Denver's Best roofer Excel roofing
dot com.

Speaker 15 (34:11):
You don't pay a cent until you're content.

Speaker 12 (34:16):
Time for an insurance check up free, no obligation comparison
call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven
seven one help. You'll think you're his only customer when
you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot com
to list your home with Remax Alliance.

Speaker 15 (34:34):
Three oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, ripped up.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
News, need a vessel, you don't have.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Come runnxious as we can.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
Shooter's gonna help.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Come.

Speaker 5 (34:56):
This is the Troubleshooter Show. No Tom Martin right, Welcome.

Speaker 6 (35:02):
To the show, the only show of It's kyt We're
here to solve problems, answer questions, take complaints. You've been
ripped off. You need some help. Phone number is easy.
We do have some open lines. We're gonna finish up
with a call from last hour, but get everybody caught up.
But three oh three seven one three A two five
five that's the number. You can always email us for
help at help at troubleshooter dot com. Don't forget your

(35:22):
phone number so we can reach out to you. That's
help at Troubleshooter dot com. Three zero three Martino works
right now, but when we're off the air, it works
as well. Will either pick up on it or you
can leave us a message that's three zero three Martino.
By the way, in studio with me Brad O'Brien olslaw

(35:45):
dot com. He's a real estate attorney, commercial, residential, pretty
much anything. Now, let me recap very quick. Tiffany's a landlord.
She's getting shaken down, in my opinion, by some tenants
at hired an attorney. We found out a little bit
about the attorney that filed the complaint, and what did
you find out about him? He's basically only been an

(36:05):
attorney for a year Dmitri.

Speaker 16 (36:06):
Yeah, he graduated from Dulah last year and he's not
a personal injury attorney according to his bio and Java
real estate, Yeah, real.

Speaker 10 (36:15):
Estate, commercial transactions, stuff like that.

Speaker 6 (36:17):
Yeah, it's very curious, Hey, Tiffany, A couple questions how
much was the rent? Thirty five hundred, So Brad O'Brien
was asking that because we're trying to figure out how
it gets to fifty to seventy thousand under any scenario
like this, right, So.

Speaker 13 (36:32):
Nothing was stated like that. That was more of the
estimate my attorney told me because of they basically tried
to settle with me for twenty five thousand. I said,
if I did that, Tyler Hollenbach the attorneys that if
I did not settle for twenty five thousand, these costs
a double if not triple.

Speaker 6 (36:49):
Yeah, wow, Okay, But I there's two things here. One,
there's two. There's really only two things, And Brad, I
want you to chime in, but one, when you get served,
you're either going to have tire and attorney trying to
do this yourself.

Speaker 4 (37:01):
You're going to end up just so upside down. It's
going to be crazy.

Speaker 6 (37:05):
I've seen it personally, I've heard stories about it on
the air a million times. But you're either going to
have to hire an attorney. I've got some good ideas
for you on what attorney, and I would say, a
personal injury attorney.

Speaker 4 (37:18):
Who else would you say would defend this?

Speaker 6 (37:20):
And you were Tiffany, didn't you say you were talking
to somebody, but it was a real estate attorney. For
the life of me, I have no idea why you
would hire a real estate attorney for this.

Speaker 4 (37:30):
Brad, what's your opinion on that you're a real estate attorney.

Speaker 8 (37:33):
Yeah, this is no longer really a real estate litigation matter.
This is not a viction or habitability because they've moved out.
This is a money dispute. So any general litigator could
handle this.

Speaker 6 (37:42):
Ye, why would you use the real estate attorney Tiffany?

Speaker 13 (37:47):
I think when interviewing her, she had dealt with a
lot of landlord tenant trials.

Speaker 4 (37:53):
She has a lot of experience with that.

Speaker 13 (37:56):
Okay, sort of it.

Speaker 6 (37:57):
So she's a litigator and she both sides of the fence.

Speaker 4 (38:02):
Yeah, okay, y well, I mean that's good hopefully.

Speaker 6 (38:06):
The only other thing I would say to you, but
I think you have too much assets. That house is
in a nice place depending on your assets bankruptcy And
the only reason I even bring that up if you
had little to no assets, most of the equity in
that house would be shielded so they wouldn't be able
to touch that.

Speaker 4 (38:24):
And if you didn't have any other money but yet had.

Speaker 6 (38:26):
Other debt like credit card debt or other debt, you
might make the whole thing get away. But I think
you could actually do that possibly, you know, in the future,
if you had to, they if somehow they did get
a huge judgment, go ahead, doc.

Speaker 11 (38:41):
Well, one of our morons actually said something interesting. Yeah,
they lived there for twenty years without any problems. As
soon as the tenants move in, who's in a taxidermy
in the house. Yeah, with no ventilation and chemicals, all
of a sudden they have problems. Wouldn't that also be
a good thing to bring up.

Speaker 6 (39:01):
It's all the it's all the cost of the defense though.
That that's what sucks about this to me, the whole case.
If everything Tiffany's saying is just honest and straight up,
and I believe her, I can't imagine having to hire
an attorney.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
How much of a retainer are you going to have
to pay?

Speaker 13 (39:18):
Tiffany three thousand and then she's three hundred an hour,
which isn't bad, but she said the retainer could be
it could require multiple retainers.

Speaker 6 (39:28):
Oh my god, you'll go through three thousand so quick
you won't even blank.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
I mean, that's that's nothing.

Speaker 6 (39:34):
I mean, that's that's That's what irritates the hell out
of me about this. It truly is a shakedown because
they probably have some agreement with this attorney, Like either
they know them and this is purely a guess. Either
they know him, or he's doing it somewhat on contingency.

Speaker 4 (39:52):
He's a brand new attorney.

Speaker 6 (39:53):
It's not like he's got a bunch of you know,
people out there that that are clients of his. I mean,
maybe he does, I don't know, but to me, it's
a shakedown. And I feel horrible for you, Tiffany. And
that's why I was saying maybe even the bankruptcy route,
because how much can you throw at this. I mean,
I don't want you to answer that question. You have
equity in the house, and that's probably what they see

(40:15):
in the long run, is the equity. But my god,
this really sucks. I don't think they were injured by
the mold. They hired a mold company that came out
and basically said that there was no airborne mold.

Speaker 4 (40:27):
And I want to tell everybody something.

Speaker 6 (40:29):
Listen, by the time if this literally goes through discovery,
if it went through discovery, and we're talking now, we
have a mold company involved, there's one deposition you have, Tiffany,
is going to be two depositions. You're gonna have both
of those tenants, and then you're gonna have probably another
expert tickets hired. Just that I'm throwing this out to

(40:51):
Brad O'Brien, five depositions. Just take a guess each each
person being deposed maybe an hour and that's being probably
pretty generous, but let's say an hour or what do you.

Speaker 8 (41:03):
Think case like this, I think both each side would
probably incurre at least twenty five thousand attorney phase.

Speaker 4 (41:08):
I think easily twenty five with.

Speaker 8 (41:10):
A prevailing party attorney feed provision. The loser may have
to pay all both sides, so fifty So that's that's
probably equal to or more than the amountain. That's even
in dispute, which is crazy. So it's like the tailwag
and the dog.

Speaker 4 (41:23):
Yeah, I mean that's it's like, what do you do
in that case? What other?

Speaker 6 (41:26):
Just out of curious to Tiffany, then I'm gonna move
on for now until you get served. But I mean,
do you do you have a lot? I just don't
want to even talk about it on the air. That's
the other part. I don't want to ask her about
her assets. But I'm just wondering about bankruptcy. I mean,
because if if she was under the threshold, but she
might be over with the equity in that house, I

(41:46):
mean de equity could be massive.

Speaker 4 (41:48):
I mean, are you talking like three four hundred grand
or more?

Speaker 14 (41:54):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (41:54):
Man, probably just so it's probably not even gonna be Uh.

Speaker 8 (41:58):
Are you thinking about the homestead of exemption? Yeah, no,
that does not apply it to rental property only plast it's.

Speaker 6 (42:03):
Not a rental property. It's her main She's only been
out of there for like four months. She lived there
her whole life, or not her whole life. But how
many years did you live there?

Speaker 13 (42:13):
No, I've lived in Breckner's for fifteen and then out
of that home. I think it's in two thousand and
seventeen October of twenty seventeen.

Speaker 4 (42:20):
So she lived there up until September, right.

Speaker 7 (42:23):
But she now moved out and is living somewhere else
Where are.

Speaker 4 (42:25):
You living now? Yeah?

Speaker 13 (42:27):
So no, I moved out when Brian passed away.

Speaker 6 (42:30):
In oh she's been out of there for eighteen months.
Lose that exemption as soon as you move out, So
that's it. Oh my god, Dear Tiffany, I just can't
believe this.

Speaker 10 (42:40):
The person.

Speaker 6 (42:42):
Well, you have an attorney, but man, I'm telling you,
this could be. This could be a massive amount. I
love Brad's opinion, but I don't think it's twenty five thousand.
I think before you actually walk into a courtroom, I said,
at least yeah, Okay, I'm saying like, I'm thinking you
could be fifty plus deep in this. I've gone through

(43:03):
like four or five depositions in one case, and I
was one hundred and fifty grand in so I mean,
let me give you an idea of that. It's insane money. Wow,
it's insane. I mean, really, it's insane. I mean, what
would you do, Dimitri? Honestly, it's not First of all,
I'm gonna I just want to tell you this. It's
not frivolous. It's not frivolous. They live there, and I

(43:26):
get it.

Speaker 4 (43:27):
It's bogus.

Speaker 6 (43:27):
I think it's a shakedown. That's my opinion. But just
throw that argument out. Let's just say the judge goes, nope.

Speaker 4 (43:33):
We're moving forward. I mean, what do you do.

Speaker 6 (43:35):
I guess you just defend yourself, You tap into the equity,
you do whatever you have to do, and then hopefully,
why do you think maybe she would recover let's say
she wins, Brad, why do you think she might recover
attorney's fees.

Speaker 8 (43:49):
If there is a prevailing party attorney fe provision in the.

Speaker 6 (43:53):
Least was there, Tiffany, Did the least you have with
them have a prevailing attorney fees?

Speaker 2 (44:00):
No?

Speaker 14 (44:01):
God, you know what it might have.

Speaker 15 (44:03):
It might have.

Speaker 13 (44:04):
Actually I can't remember, to be honest, I just purchased
a new lease agreement from an attorney that made it
a little tighter because obviously mine is not. So I
just I can't remember if there was or not.

Speaker 4 (44:15):
Can you send that over to us?

Speaker 13 (44:18):
Absolutely?

Speaker 6 (44:18):
All right, So listen, I mean, you hired an attorney.
Just keep us, just keep us in the loop. There's
really not much we can do. The only thing I
want to do right now is just educate you. It's
not going to be three thousand bucks. That's unless they
come up with a settlement or something.

Speaker 4 (44:35):
I mean, it's just crazy. That's what the shakedown is. Guys.

Speaker 6 (44:38):
You know, what is she going to do? Spend fifty
thousand on an attorney or pay him twenty five?

Speaker 4 (44:43):
What do you do? People go, oh, well, i'd never
let that happen. Well, what do you do?

Speaker 6 (44:48):
At some point everything's in economic accountit orders.

Speaker 11 (44:50):
I'll give you fifteen right now to go away.

Speaker 6 (44:53):
Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's a true shakedown. Tiffany,
Please you got my personal number. Pap us in the
loop three oh three seven one three A two five five.
Any questions you have for Brad O'Brien, any things you
want to talk about, We want to hear from you
right now three zero three Martina will be right back.

Speaker 12 (45:17):
Go with a sure thing Denver's best rufer Excel Roofing
dot com.

Speaker 15 (45:21):
You don't pays cent until you're content than.

Speaker 12 (45:27):
Time for an insurance check up free no obligation comparison
call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven
seven to one help. You'll think you're his only customer
when you choose Frank Durand the real estate Man dot
com to list your home with Remax Alliance three oh
three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.

Speaker 15 (45:54):
All right, Frank Duran, the real estate Man.

Speaker 6 (45:57):
My talk to Frank last night. He is a great guy,
absolutely a great guy. I'm going to keep it somewhat
confidential what we talked about, but he is one of
the nicest guys I've ever met. He's incredible and as
far as a real estate guy, he's remarkable. He sold
our house in Castle Rock for more than that same

(46:17):
model went at the same time anywhere in Red Hawk.

Speaker 4 (46:20):
It was crazy. That was the name of the neighborhood.

Speaker 6 (46:23):
And then when he negotiated our new house, he made
a unbelievable offer and he came up with it how
we could save a ton of money, and it worked.
I mean, the bottom line was, we made a cash offer,
and we did it quick and only gave him like
twenty four hours to think about it, the whole bit.
I mean, but he came up with that game plan

(46:43):
and I'll be danged, it worked. It simply worked, and
it was the best Frank Duran Holmes dot com. So
I do want to ask our attorney in studio, Brad O'Brien. Brad,
I mean, you know, I do look at that as
a shakedown. No matter what, it doesn't matter, we're not
going back to Tiffany. But it's so unfortunate there. I mean,
I have no idea what you do in a circumstance

(47:04):
like that. I guess you end up hiring an attorney
and you fight. But if she doesn't even have a
clause in that lease, and we're gonna look at that
least later for attorney's fees to the winning party. I mean, god,
I mean it could cost twenty five to fifty thousand
and she did nothing wrong.

Speaker 4 (47:19):
It literally could end up that way.

Speaker 8 (47:21):
Yeah, it's really a business decision that the that anybody
has to think about before they get into a court case.
And you have to think about what's the what are
your chances of winning if you win, how much can
you win if you lose, how much can you lose?
What are the attorney fees to get that win? And
is it worth it? You know, if you were gonna
spend five thousand attorney fees to win like twenty.

Speaker 7 (47:40):
Five, maybe that's a good deal.

Speaker 4 (47:41):
Yeah, good bet.

Speaker 8 (47:42):
But if you're gonna spend twenty five to win five,
that's ridiculous.

Speaker 6 (47:45):
Don't you hate the fact though? Like these kind of shakedowns,
I mean, really remember the one. I think you were
involved with it for a little bit. I'm not going
to get in the names or anything, but you know,
the guy's wife died and someone bought the house and
he had like a camera in the house.

Speaker 4 (48:01):
This is the craziest story ever.

Speaker 6 (48:03):
So he actually don't ask me why he had a
camera in his ex wife's house, but she knew about it,
and he was an attorney and he moved out of state,
older guy, and I think he was actually disbarred at
one point from Colorado. But the bottom line was he
bought the house and this attorney basically made it to
where they didn't get to move into that house for

(48:24):
like a year. You know which one I'm talking about.
I mean, to me, that's a shakedown. I mean, wouldn't
you agree. I mean to me, once again, frivolous is
a hard word to throw out, but my god.

Speaker 4 (48:38):
I mean, he was saying, it's my house. It was
just nuts.

Speaker 6 (48:41):
They literally didn't have access or use of that house
for a long time. I don't In fact, I haven't
talked to that caller in a while. But I mean,
I don't even know if they still own the house
or if they sold it. But it was so bad
I don't even think she wanted to move into it
at the end.

Speaker 4 (48:56):
The wife.

Speaker 8 (48:57):
Yeah, people can use the courts to cause delays that
make it tough for the other side. If the other
side really needs to sell quickly and the other side
starts some action that may not be very strong, but
it's enough to cause a delay that might get them
a settlement that they otherwise wouldn't get.

Speaker 11 (49:12):
Brad, what do you think about my suggestion to make
them account offer? I mean, if she count offers, I'll
give you fifteen thousand.

Speaker 4 (49:20):
That's what you're looking for.

Speaker 8 (49:21):
Yeah, yeah, somebody count somebody cannot afford to take a
case all the way through trial probably ought to be
talking about a settlement.

Speaker 4 (49:27):
Well doesn't that That's where I go back. That sucks
so bad.

Speaker 7 (49:31):
That's how it works.

Speaker 4 (49:32):
It's just I know that's how it works. I mean,
I get that's how it works. You know.

Speaker 6 (49:36):
There's been a few times where we've been sued and
basically for saying something and it has got thrown out.
We called a slapsuit because they're saying, oh, you know,
they called me a scumbag or whatever it happens to be.
And the bottom line is it just comes down to opinion,
and in a slapsuit, when it gets tossed out, you

(49:58):
can get attorney's views. In fact, one time someone brought
a lawsuit against Tom Oh this was crazy. Not only
did the judge throw it out, but he got attorney's
fees that he had to pay, and he ended up
with the woman's condo he literally she sued him. It
was frivolous. Basically it was a slapsuit. There was no

(50:20):
merit behind it. The judge not only and this is
when it got to court. It was in court the
judge threw the thing out, granted attorney's fees.

Speaker 4 (50:29):
She didn't have the money she had.

Speaker 6 (50:31):
Basically an attorney friend that was working for didn't have
the money, and he foreclosed down her condo eventually.

Speaker 4 (50:37):
I mean, think about that. It's crazy.

Speaker 6 (50:39):
But in a case like this, I mean, you're right, Brad,
it's an economic decision.

Speaker 11 (50:44):
Was you a Brad explained what a slapsuit is?

Speaker 6 (50:47):
Well, it's basically technically in Colorado, there really isn't a slapsuit.
It's something with very little merit. In other words, you
sue me for giving my opinion on the air.

Speaker 4 (50:59):
There's one.

Speaker 6 (51:00):
I'm not going to get into what that particular one
was about.

Speaker 4 (51:03):
I'll tell you.

Speaker 6 (51:03):
One that was close. Okay, you want to hear one
a couple of years ago. Actually was it during COVID
with the dance Studio?

Speaker 4 (51:11):
Uh right, yeah, I believe so.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
It was.

Speaker 6 (51:14):
This one was a big one. People that had been
listening to the show for a while Brad. You probably
don't know this, but so we did a show. This
woman calls up and says, hey, they're discriminating. This dance
studio is discriminating against my kids. And are kids where
I believe transgender and they're discriminating or the kids were gay,
I forget transgender gay something like that. And first of all,

(51:37):
just on the face of it, it sounds crazy because
when you think of a dance studio, you don't think
that would be an issue whatsoever. Dragon, you were in
that phone call, would we You don't even know this
part when when they sued us.

Speaker 4 (51:49):
Do you remember the dance studio? Yeah, something about the
daughter being not yes, And it was years ago conversation
you probably don't even know.

Speaker 6 (51:57):
We got suit on that. We don't tell people when
we get dude. We literally got sued on. Now it
was crazy. I mean, it was absolutely nuts. But I'm
going back what a slapsuit is doc. So they were
saying we ran him out of business. They said because
of this radio show and this woman calling that, we
ran him out of business, literally ran him out of business.

(52:18):
The dance studio closed up. Well, a couple things. One
the reason it did close up and it did close up.
Had nothing to do with us. I had to do
with COVID. COVID closed him up. It was during COVID.
Literally they couldn't have a dance studio. So it had
nothing to do with us in the phone call. But
they threatened to shake us down.

Speaker 4 (52:38):
Doc.

Speaker 6 (52:38):
They wanted I think fifty thousand, and we're like, there's
no way.

Speaker 4 (52:42):
We didn't do anything. We can have an opinion.

Speaker 6 (52:44):
In fact, if you listen to it, remember how Donald
Trump said a perfect call. Remember the perfect call he made.
We had a perfect call. It was one hundred percent
of perfect call. And we knew the attorneys they weren't
even attorneys to deal with this stuff, Dmitri. They it
was like, I don't you remember, like a family law
attorney or something had nothing to do with this kind

(53:06):
of thing.

Speaker 4 (53:07):
Slander, It had nothing to do with it.

Speaker 6 (53:09):
So they want they try to shake us down for
fifty Then it went down to twenty five, and then
finally we just said, you know, we had our attorney say,
you know what, just sue us.

Speaker 4 (53:18):
We're done.

Speaker 6 (53:19):
We're going to do it, and basically he told her,
and what's going to happen is you're going to walk
into court and we're going to end up getting our
attorney's fees, and we're going to take every single thing
you have. I'm going to take your house, your car,
anything you have. And that's our stance. That was our response. Basically,
they didn't file the suit, but they kept threatening to,
and our attorney basically wrote him a letter saying, that's

(53:40):
exactly what we're going to do. We would love, absolutely
love for you to sue us, and we're going to
take every damn sent you have. And they never they
never filed the case and went away, but they tried
to do it. That's what basically a slapsuit is. In Colorado,
there's technically not a slapsuit, and some states there are,
but it's exactly what I think that those tenants are

(54:01):
doing to her. But the problem is we had the money,
of course, to hire an attorney, and we have the
money to go through with it. Most people aren't going
to have that kind of dope like that poor Tiffany.
So a slapsuit is just you're shaking someone down. Okay,
does that happen.

Speaker 4 (54:17):
In real estate? I mean, really, Brad, I mean does
that happen a lot or no?

Speaker 8 (54:21):
Well, a slapsuit is a law suit with little or
no merits that's done to chill discussion or chill the
negative publicity that somebody might basically quiet them down.

Speaker 6 (54:32):
Yeah so yeah, I mean, but it's just nuts to me.
I think back on that dance studio and I just
want to I don't know, but it is. It was
a shakedown, and you know, we just have the means
to stand up to it. But that one I was
talking about with Tom. You know, Tom's been sued personally
quite a bit over the years, and he's won every case,

(54:52):
never lost case, never lost a case, and most of
the time the other person ends up in really really
bad situation. I got to take a break, Dennis, I'll
come to you. And whoever's online two three oh three
seven one three eight two five y five.

Speaker 12 (55:13):
Go with a sure thing Denver's Best Roofer Excel roofing
dot com.

Speaker 15 (55:17):
You don't pay a cent until you're content.

Speaker 12 (55:23):
Time for an insurance check up, free, no obligation comparison
call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven
to seven to one help You'll think you're his only
customer when you choose Frank durand the real estate man
dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance three
oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.

Speaker 6 (55:46):
All right, three oh three seven one three eight two
five five off here, I was reminiscing about shakedowns. I mean, really,
today's topic to me is shakedowns. I'm gonna go right
to the phones. But the shakedown is horrible. Anybody out
there that ever receives a letter, and it's not as
prominent as it used to be. But one of the
letters saying hey, you downloaded a movie or you downloaded

(56:07):
back in the day was called wasn't it Napster? Yeah,
naps That was.

Speaker 10 (56:11):
The big one.

Speaker 16 (56:12):
But this was a big deal about twenty years ago.
Maybe thousands of people were getting sued all the time
by RHEA, remember their Record Industry Association.

Speaker 4 (56:20):
Absolutely, they're going.

Speaker 16 (56:21):
After grandmothers for hundreds of thousands of dollars breach their
grandkids without the grandmother's knowledge, were downloading from Napster and
everything else.

Speaker 6 (56:31):
And what I was telling Demitrius that happened to me
on a movie. I don't think it was that company,
but it was some slee's Ball attorney, and the bottom
line was you just don't answer. I knew a friend
that answered literally said, well, I didn't do it, maybe
someone was on my WiFi.

Speaker 4 (56:46):
His answer actually.

Speaker 6 (56:47):
Incriminated him, Yeah it did, which was crazy, and they
shook him down for ten grand.

Speaker 4 (56:54):
But you don't. You don't even reply.

Speaker 6 (56:57):
But how it typically works is, at least back the day,
and I'm saying last fifteen years, they'll go to century Link,
or they'll go to Xfinity, whoever your internet is, and
they'll go there with the court order saying hey IP
one nine two one six eight that five dot eight.
Of course that's a local but I mean an actual
IP address. You guys own that Class C that's one

(57:19):
of your IP addresses, and this court order says you
must give us information on it. So then century Link
has to give them information on who was using that
IP on their system at that time, and then it
comes back to whomever they're going after. At that point,
they won't release the name. So you're John Doe. So
if CenTra, if this shady attorney's coming after you, you'll get

(57:41):
a letter that's basically the John Doe that's basically saying
you're going to pay up, or we're going to take
you to court. And then the next thing that would
happen is they might literally take you to court if
they think they can win on it. But I mean,
you're right, that was a huge deal back in the day.

Speaker 16 (57:57):
Sounds mark like this letter that you received didn't have
your name on it, or I was John Doe.

Speaker 10 (58:02):
Oh that's how it was a dress.

Speaker 6 (58:03):
Literally I was no that, No, I was literally John Doe,
literally John Doe. Have you ever heard of a John
Doe lawsuit, Brad O'Brien where you don't know who the
who the player, or who the defendant is yet.

Speaker 8 (58:20):
I've never named somebody's John Doe, but sometimes on real
estate actions you'd name any and all interested parties who
are not known.

Speaker 4 (58:27):
Yeah, I got you.

Speaker 6 (58:28):
So when they they know it's somebody that they're going after,
but they don't know the name yet, you're John Doe,
and they can literally file a John Doe lawsuit.

Speaker 4 (58:38):
And then when they.

Speaker 6 (58:38):
File it, they'd go back to Century Link and figure
out exactly who you are, and then you would turn
into John Doe. But it's literally a John Doe John
Doe lawsuit. Hey Dennis, what's going on with you. And
by the way, two lines open three oh three seven
one three eight two five five pick Brad's brain. In fact,
I know Dimitri's got some questions for him. But hey, Dennis,
what's going on?

Speaker 18 (59:00):
I think he answered one of my questions during the breaks.
That's eight eight eight heating.

Speaker 3 (59:04):
Oh.

Speaker 18 (59:04):
I wanted to know what you're talking about the other day.
And I think that's the one where you say they
come out and they'll do repairs and they don't always
try to talk to you into a new furnace.

Speaker 4 (59:15):
Yeah, how old your furnace? I do have a few
questions for you.

Speaker 18 (59:19):
Well, it's twenty years old, but it's a it's really
a good furnace. And I heated it for several years
with wood.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
So I didn't even use them that much.

Speaker 6 (59:27):
So it doesn't have a lot of hours on it,
if you will. What's wrong with it? Simply doesn't turn on.

Speaker 18 (59:34):
No, there's nothing wrong right now. I just want I
like to backup numbers in my phone in case something
does go wrong.

Speaker 4 (59:39):
Hey, Dennis, I'm going to tell you something.

Speaker 3 (59:41):
Man.

Speaker 4 (59:41):
Have you've never called eight eight eight before? Have you?

Speaker 18 (59:45):
No, I've never called any heating company.

Speaker 6 (59:47):
Listen, what area are you in just roughly up north
where North Denver. Okay, listener, check it out, man, call
them up. Say you want the Troubleshooter Special. Okay, forty
five bucks. They're gonna come out to that furnace. It's
running right now, works good, right. Oh, they're gonna listen,

(01:00:10):
they're gonna tear it apart. They're gonna get all the
dirt out of it. They're gonna clean the blower. They're
gonna look at the heat exchanger and make sure it's clean.
They're gonna do they're gonna basically do a tune up
if anything. I mean it's you know, technically not a
tune up because they're not really throwing any parts on it.
But they're gonna clean the heck out of it and
they'll do all of it. They're gonna be there an
hour to two hours, man, and it's only gonna cost

(01:00:31):
you forty five dollars. And then they'll put a sticker
on there. They'll give you the no breakdown guarantee. But
it's only for new customers. They want to prove to you,
of course you know how great they are. Then you know,
if something does break in the FEU. The future either
that furnace or your air conditioner or your water heater.

Speaker 4 (01:00:49):
You know, you know who to call. That's why they
do it. But it's the real deal.

Speaker 6 (01:00:52):
It's not the deal like where you just, you know,
call someone up for a thirty nine dollars tune up
or a nineteen dollars tune up and all of a sudden,
all they're saying is, oh, you need a new furnace.
It's nothing like that. It's the real deal. But what's
your second question?

Speaker 18 (01:01:07):
And the second one is I think it was this
week you're talking to some guy that called him he
wanted a wind shield for his older pickup, and then
some other guy called in and said that he was windshield.

Speaker 13 (01:01:21):
Oh yeah, Mark, it was the gentleman with the classic
nineteen ninety three car and he Phil and he wanted
the original Oe had.

Speaker 10 (01:01:30):
Thirty thousand miles.

Speaker 6 (01:01:32):
Thirty thirty seven thousand miles, forty four thousand miles seven
forty seven thousand, Yeah, and he wanted that. Yeah, you're
absolutely right. What did you want that guy's number they
called in or what?

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
No? I wanted that?

Speaker 18 (01:01:49):
I believe Kevin called in. He he was a guy
that sounds like PPG. Yeah or something.

Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
Kelly, did we keep that guy's number, Susanne, I have
it because I was doing that day.

Speaker 6 (01:02:01):
Here's the deal, though I don't like, I don't know
anything about that guy. I don't mind giving it to
you because you're asking. But I mean, that's what our
referral list is all about. I get to know the people.
Tom gets to know the people. We background check them
and they sign a code of ethics. So I don't
know anything about this guy, but he does seem legit.
He seemed to know about windshields and Suzanne, we'll give

(01:02:25):
you the number off air, but really what I should
do is have one of our salespeople reach out to
him to get him on referral list. And that goes
for any business out there. Really, that's why we can
refer you. We talk to you, we get to know you.
In fact, most new referral list members, Dimitrio, I don't you.
You're kind of new to the team. I don't know
if you even know this. Most of them we bring
into studio, oh.

Speaker 10 (01:02:46):
Tons of them.

Speaker 16 (01:02:47):
I mean I work here alongside of one of our experts,
so almost every day, oh every day.

Speaker 6 (01:02:52):
But I'm saying, like, if this windshield guy goes through
the hoops, oh yeah, and gets on referral list. We'll
generally have him in at least the first time to
introduce the audience.

Speaker 10 (01:03:01):
That'd be awesome.

Speaker 6 (01:03:02):
So Dannis, hold on, we're gonna give that to you
off air, all right. And then Dean's got a question
on a John Doe lawsuit tests that's very curious. Or
he's got a comment. I wonder if he got hit
with one of those. Everybody, hang tight, we have a
couple lines open. Three oh three seven one, three eight
two five five. I'd love to talk to you, waiting
to hear from you. Three oh three Martino.

Speaker 12 (01:03:28):
Go with a sure thing Denver's Best roofer Excel Roofing
dot com.

Speaker 15 (01:03:32):
You don't pay a cent until you're content than.

Speaker 12 (01:03:37):
Time for an insurance check up, free no obligation comparison
call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
of insurance companies find out now three oh three, seven
to seven to one help. You'll think you're his only
customer when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man
dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance three.

Speaker 15 (01:03:55):
Oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.

Speaker 4 (01:04:00):
All right, three three seven two five.

Speaker 6 (01:04:03):
Dean had a comment on the John Doe lawsuit we
were talking about.

Speaker 4 (01:04:07):
Basically, John Doe lawsuit.

Speaker 6 (01:04:10):
Is if you don't know who the defendant is or
their true name. You know who it is, but you
don't know their actual name, or possibly a statute of
limitations is getting ready to run out and you don't
know them.

Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
That's another reason to file one.

Speaker 6 (01:04:25):
And then maybe sometimes to protect someone's identity. I guess
maybe like in the example of a rape case or
something along those lines.

Speaker 4 (01:04:34):
I'm not exactly sure on that part, but go ahead.
What's your comment?

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
Okay? You there?

Speaker 4 (01:04:39):
Yeah, I'm here, Dean.

Speaker 3 (01:04:40):
All right, you've got a real estate attorney with you.

Speaker 4 (01:04:44):
Correct, yes, right next to me.

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
Is he familiar with the Conoradic Immigrant Tenant Protection Act?

Speaker 7 (01:04:52):
No, I'm not.

Speaker 4 (01:04:53):
What is it, Dean?

Speaker 3 (01:04:55):
Well, it has to do with a lawsuit was filed
the end of last month in a rap A Hope,
CA County buy some illegal immigrants that were renting an apartment.

Speaker 4 (01:05:04):
Hey, give me the name of that again. What is it?

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
The Colorado Immigrant Pennant peck.

Speaker 4 (01:05:12):
And it passed legislation right, It's like it's a law.

Speaker 3 (01:05:16):
Yeah, it's a thirty eight DA twelve one two zero.

Speaker 4 (01:05:20):
Three thirty eight dash.

Speaker 6 (01:05:22):
That's so, that's what I needed instead of Google thirty
eight dash twelve dot what.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
Twelve dash one two zero three b all.

Speaker 6 (01:05:34):
Right, I'm going to look it up. Keep going, So
go ahead, give us the give us the information.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
All right. So, and I don't know anybody involved in
this thing other than the plaintiffs are John Dealt. They're
illegal immigrants that moved into an apartment building in Aurora.
They gut behind on the rent and the guy that
owns the apartment says, you pay the rent or I'm

(01:05:58):
going to turn you into it. And they say to
do that, and he says, on going though, if you
don't pay the rent.

Speaker 6 (01:06:08):
Yeah, So if you cannot harass or intimidate a tenant,
or retaliate against a tenant for exercising the tenants right
opposing any conduct interfere with the tenants, right, I don't
see anything about Well, I guess in a way, Brad O'Brien,
that's kind of I mean, if you if you tell
a tenant I'm gonna turn it's kind of like blackmail

(01:06:30):
or extortion in a way, right, I mean, wouldn't that
be wrong in most cases? Just and I'll let you
keep talking in a second, dem But I'm very curious
on this.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
Well, so him and his wife have sued the guy
that owns the apartment, Yeah, based on that particular law,
and his attorneys are the ACLU.

Speaker 6 (01:06:54):
Yeah, that's a lot of money there, Okay, at least
he used to be keep going.

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
Well anyway again, and they've got a temporary shaking order
right now to stay in there.

Speaker 4 (01:07:06):
And it's going roun right now.

Speaker 3 (01:07:09):
I told you it was filed the ends of January.

Speaker 4 (01:07:12):
Oh my god, t Well, I don't know what you do.

Speaker 6 (01:07:18):
I mean, first of all, if we're talking, it's actually
a CRS and it is I'm looking at it. I mean,
that's just what the law is right now. But Brad,
give me some opinions on this.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Well.

Speaker 8 (01:07:30):
Colorado for housing purposes has several legally protected classes raised color, creed, sex, disability,
but also national origin has has been one and that's
I believe, separate from the statute that your color is referencing.
I've not had the occasion to use the statute on immigration.

Speaker 6 (01:07:45):
Yeah, it says bring an action to recover possession of
a dwelling unit based solely or in part of an
immigration or citizenship status of a tenant. So they so
honestly they weren't paying, and then he threatened to turn
him into ICE, and then the ACL you got involved.

Speaker 3 (01:08:04):
Yeah, and the plaintiffs are John Doe and Jane Doe.

Speaker 10 (01:08:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:08:09):
Yeah, that's because there, that's true. That's exactly why they
use it. What an interesting comment on what we were
talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
Dan.

Speaker 6 (01:08:16):
That really is to bring in that John Doe in
that fashion. Hey, I appreciate that call.

Speaker 3 (01:08:21):
Man.

Speaker 6 (01:08:21):
That's uh, that gives me food for thought. I don't
know what to think of that. I don't think it's right.
I don't think it's right.

Speaker 4 (01:08:28):
Well, if you're not getting paid, it sucks. Let's just
do that.

Speaker 6 (01:08:32):
But there's legal ways to go about it, right, Brad,
But can you how do you look at that?

Speaker 4 (01:08:38):
And I'll ask you after the break.

Speaker 6 (01:08:40):
But what I want you to think about, Brad, is like,
if it's outside the immigration I get Hey, if you
don't pay me, I'm going to call ICE to try
to squeeze them so you get paid as a landlord.
But that could be I can call your job and
tell your boss you're a drunk and maybe he'll fire you.
I mean, there's different ways you could kind of blackmail people.
And I'm curious us if a if a landlord did that.

(01:09:02):
Not just in the case that guy was talking about,
but can you do that everybody?

Speaker 4 (01:09:06):
Whole time? We got another hour coming.

Speaker 6 (01:09:08):
Get on the whore now three o three seven to one,
three eight two five five three oh three Martino.

Speaker 12 (01:09:17):
Go with a sure thing Denver's best roofer Excel Roofing
dot com.

Speaker 15 (01:09:21):
You don't pay a cent until you're content.

Speaker 12 (01:09:25):
Leave time for an insurance check up free, no obligation
comparison call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at
dozens of insurance companies find out now three oh three
seven seven to one help. You'll think you're his only
customer when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man
dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance three
oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
News so you don't have come, runs just as fast
as we can.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Shoot's gonna help coming man.

Speaker 5 (01:10:07):
This is the Troubleshooter Show. No, Tom Martinez, welcome you
to you.

Speaker 4 (01:10:13):
The only show. If it's kind. We're here to solve
your problem.

Speaker 6 (01:10:15):
Answer your questions, take your complaints, educate you, make your
life a little bit better. We got a great group
of people at referral list dot com, by the way,
and they're just great people. They help us solve problems.
In fact, over three hundred million dollars three hundred million
dollars in cash, merchandise, exchanges, refund services over a long

(01:10:36):
period of time, over forty years. If you have a problem,
we want to hear from you. We want to recoup
your money. God line's open three oh three seven one
three eight two five five three oh three seven one
three A two five five, or you can always email
us at help at troubleshooter dot com. Now let's talk
to Brad O'Brien, our guest today. Great guy. In fact, Brad,

(01:10:59):
you've been with his years and years at this point,
and you do real estate. The bottom line is if
it's commercial, if it's residential, I don't care. If you're
buying property, I don't care. If you're selling property. I
don't care if you know someone's suing you after you
close because they claim that you know you knew something,
didn't disclose it. Leases for landlords out there, it's pretty

(01:11:24):
complicated in Colorado, now right, I mean, honestly, it's not
complicated to you. But in other words, if you're a landlord,
my understanding is you can only raise the rent a
certain amount of times per year. You can't really just
kick a tenant out when the lease is up, as
crazy as that is. But there's a lot of changes

(01:11:44):
that have been made to Colorado law where there's a
lot of leases out there that are probably I don't
want to say invalid, but I mean they're just well,
how would that work If you sign a lease saying
you can raise rent every six month?

Speaker 4 (01:11:58):
That means nothing now right on.

Speaker 8 (01:12:01):
The resident On the residential side, we've had a lot
of changes in the last couple of years about what
has to be in the lease and what and limitations
on landlords in if a landlord is required to update
their lease, they don't have to go and change the
lease in the middle of the like a year long lease,
but at the next renewal, if they're gonna stick with
that tenant, they have to use a lease form that

(01:12:24):
complies with the law.

Speaker 6 (01:12:25):
But if let me ask you on that on that though,
so let's say I have a lease that doesn't comply
with the law, but they already signed it.

Speaker 4 (01:12:34):
I mean, it's not like it's grandfathered, right.

Speaker 7 (01:12:36):
No, it's not like.

Speaker 8 (01:12:37):
For example, pet deposits used to be you could us
to say they could be non refundable, but now they
have to be refundable less actual pets.

Speaker 6 (01:12:44):
So even though if they signed a lease that's perpetual
and it's on its fifth year or whatever the terms are,
it still doesn't matter. They have to refund the pet
the pet deposit.

Speaker 7 (01:12:55):
Right.

Speaker 8 (01:12:56):
If there's a lease provision in an existing lease that
says non refundable pet depot, that is no longer enforceable.

Speaker 6 (01:13:01):
But if there's things that are not enforceable, is different
than making it invalid. So it's not necessarily the other
provisions in there would become invalid because some are right.
I mean, it's still it's still in the framework of
a lease and the things that you can do it
still covers.

Speaker 4 (01:13:19):
Well.

Speaker 8 (01:13:20):
I think invalid probably means the same thing or equivalent
to enforceable uninforceable. But there is one thing on a
prevailing party attorney feed provisions where it used to be
a one sided provision where it says if the landlord collects,
they can get their attorney fees when they win.

Speaker 4 (01:13:36):
Oh, but the tenant couldn't.

Speaker 8 (01:13:38):
Yeah, but now the change of law says that that
is no longer enforceable and it's void unless it's the
two way attorney feed provision that either side prevails, they
get their feast paid by the loser.

Speaker 4 (01:13:48):
You know, I actually think that's fair.

Speaker 6 (01:13:51):
I mean, you know, regardless, Yeah, it's kind of interesting
that it was the other way before. But still, as
a tenant, you didn't have to sign it. I mean, really,
you could have negotiated that at the time. I mean,
that would be the smart thing to do. Although most
people aren't going to negotiate with an apartment complex.

Speaker 7 (01:14:10):
Right people.

Speaker 8 (01:14:10):
It's hard to find housing and good housing that's at
a good rate, so people will But.

Speaker 6 (01:14:15):
No matter what, if I'm a tenant, I mean, let's
just saw commercial property, then you look at a lot
of those leases.

Speaker 4 (01:14:20):
If I am going to be someone's tenant.

Speaker 6 (01:14:23):
Anytime I have done a commercial lease, and I have
done probably twenty of them, I have the attorney look
at over. Okay, this is going back in my day.
His name was Michael Kopez, great guy. So Kupez would
go over the lease and then we would enter into
negotiations whatever they were. It might say, for example, that
they can increase it in the second year X amount,

(01:14:45):
or it might say it could say anything. It doesn't matter,
we would negotiate it. But you're right when it comes
to consumer or residential, Yeah, apartment complexes aren't going to
do really anything, are they.

Speaker 4 (01:14:56):
I mean, it's just not heard of. I mean they might,
but I doubt it.

Speaker 7 (01:15:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:15:00):
I think on the commercial side, both sides should have
an attorney. Oh, at leases, because they're the dollars that
are at risk are much higher and there's more things
that could be a cost that you wouldn't think of
on the commercial side.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:15:15):
And the other thing that we got to the point where,
you know, we were our cash flow was good enough
to where we didn't have to have personal guarantees on stuff.
That's another big one. If you're a tenant, I mean,
it depends on what side of the table you're on,
But if you're a landlord, you're gonna want a personal
guarantee in most circumstances. I mean, if you're if you're
you know, leasing your building the Walmart or Microsoft, you're

(01:15:39):
probably not going to care whatsoever, nor would you ever
get a personal But if you're running to Joe Blow,
that's you know, opening up an automotive shop, you're probably
gonna want a personal right.

Speaker 7 (01:15:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:15:50):
If you're if you're leasing to a if you're a
commercial lease a landlord, and you're leasing to a credit
rated tenant like a company that's on the stock market, yeah, sure,
you're looking to the credit rating of that tenant. So
that's that's why you wouldn't get a personal guarantee there.

Speaker 6 (01:16:04):
What are some of the tricks that you've seen. Let's
go on the landlord side. Were a landlord and let's
just talk commercial. You do a ton of commercial I do,
so let's talk some of the tricks. Like back in
the day when I had computer stores, I would find
a location, generally in a strip mall. I liked it
next to a King Soupers, and I'd figure out who
the landlord was, and then I'd engage in a conversation.

(01:16:28):
So what kind of things can the landlord do to
protect themselves? So right now you're on the landlord side,
So something that might most people aren't going to think
about in a commercial lease for a box like that,
for like a radio shack size strip mall thing.

Speaker 8 (01:16:45):
Well, then I was negotiating what expenses for maintenance repairs
are included in the rent. You know, if there's a
base rent, does that include real estate taxes? Who's going
to pay that bill? Is there a cap on year
of a year increases?

Speaker 4 (01:16:58):
So on the tennis side.

Speaker 6 (01:17:00):
So on the tenant side though, or I'm sorry, on
the landlord side, you would probably want to write it
up like, you know, your rents five thousand a month
or whatever it is, and then you break down, but
they're going to pay for this, this, this, this, and
this cam charges. They're going to pay whatever triple whatever
it is. And a lot of people that are probably
new to the business world might really not even understand

(01:17:22):
that their rent could easily be six or seven thousand,
not five thousand.

Speaker 8 (01:17:26):
Yeah, there's usually a base rent component and an additional
rent component that is the operating expenses the program to
share of that unit as compared to the percentage of
the whole building.

Speaker 4 (01:17:38):
Yeah, and so the cam, the.

Speaker 7 (01:17:40):
Cam could be equal to the amount of the base rent.

Speaker 6 (01:17:44):
And then on the tenant side, if someone comes into
you and says, hey, I'm going to lease this thing,
what are you looking for in that least to protect
your client.

Speaker 8 (01:17:55):
Tenants like to see that they have options to extend.
If they start with five years, they want to have
the right to have an additional five years at their option,
and then they want to lock down. What's the rate
going to be for those five years. Is it going
to be based on market the market rate at the time,
which is really wide open, or is it going to
be based off of an increase from the last year
of the first term.

Speaker 6 (01:18:14):
Yeah, And if you think about that, if you run
a business and it's successful, and man, they'd really have
you by the Cohunes at the end of that five years.

Speaker 4 (01:18:23):
Let's say it's a restaurant. Can you imagine that?

Speaker 6 (01:18:26):
I mean, a restaurant is something you travel to and
you go eat there, and it's usually in your vicinity.
And what happens is that five years comes up, you
don't have any options. Even if the price goes up.
You negotiated that. But if there is no options, they
got you right, right, I mean really, and moving a
restaurant is generally a failure.

Speaker 4 (01:18:48):
Do you rent anything, Dmitri No.

Speaker 10 (01:18:51):
I used to have a large production facility for my
company that.

Speaker 4 (01:18:55):
You rented, or at least it proper least.

Speaker 16 (01:18:57):
Expired and I shut it down so I never had
to move. But god, that would be a nightmare to
move any kind of business, especially restaurant total.

Speaker 4 (01:19:03):
Do you ever deal with eminent domain?

Speaker 14 (01:19:07):
Umm?

Speaker 7 (01:19:09):
Not really no, but I know about it.

Speaker 6 (01:19:11):
Yeah, of course you do, but it's crazy. Anyhow, I
gotta take this break. Three oh three seven one three
eight two five five. We want to hear from you
three two three Martino.

Speaker 12 (01:19:25):
Go with a sure thing Denver's best roofer Excel Roofing
dot com. You don't pay a cent until you're contenth
time for an insurance check up free, no obligation comparison
call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven
seven to one help. You'll think you're his only customer

(01:19:47):
when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot
com to list your home with Remax Alliance three oh
three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.

Speaker 6 (01:19:56):
All right, three O three seven one three A two
five five three oh three Martine. You know during the
breaks we talk on YouTube a lot. I love giving
information out and I'll go to that phone in a second.

Speaker 4 (01:20:07):
But you know, I think.

Speaker 6 (01:20:09):
The main part of this show is the educational value.
No matter what, Helping people recouping money is what I
love to my heart. But I was thinking back on
a situation I had, and we have a real estate
attorney in with us, Brad O'Brien and Brad. So this
was like nineteen or two thousand and one. Suzanne and
I sold our house in Clark Farms and Parker and

(01:20:33):
we bought a new house in Castle Rock from Lenar.
So if you I'm sure you've seen one hundred of them,
the contracts with a new builder compared to buying like
a house from each other a standard real estate agreement. Man,
there couldn't be anything further away. I mean it's crazy.

(01:20:54):
I mean some of the things you agree to are
absolutely nuts. And every one of them's different. I mean, really,
every single one's different. I would highly suggest, and i'd
like your opinion, that you definitely get an attorney if
you're buying a new home from I don't care if
it's KB or Leonar or whoever it is, especially a

(01:21:15):
custom builder. That could be completely different as well. What
are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 8 (01:21:19):
I agree, I think a home builder contract is so
complex and long and nuanced, and so many pitfalls in
there that you really do have to have an attorney
review that each and every time.

Speaker 4 (01:21:29):
The pitfalls are unbelievable.

Speaker 6 (01:21:30):
We've seen somewhere the house takes an extraordinary amount of
time to get built and they're finally like two years
down the road and they're like, this is crazy, but
they couldn't get out.

Speaker 8 (01:21:41):
Typically, these contracts are quick to tie your earnest money up.
They make it non refundable except for extremely limited circumstances.

Speaker 7 (01:21:49):
But they also and a lot of.

Speaker 6 (01:21:51):
Them will actually let the builder out with no oh yeah,
with no issue. So in other words, you think the
earnest money you're protected, they could get more.

Speaker 4 (01:21:59):
I've seen them. And tell me if you've seen.

Speaker 6 (01:22:01):
These where if they get offered more money for the house,
they can sell your house.

Speaker 3 (01:22:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:22:07):
We saw that when the right after COVID, when the
lumber prices went up and then the building prices in
turn went up. In reaction to that, homebuilders were putting
clauses in their contracts where they could actually increase the
price on you mid mid construction.

Speaker 6 (01:22:21):
There was one in Colorado Springs. This was during COVID.
It was probably. I'm going to say twenty twenty one,
twenty twenty two. This was the craziest thing. We had
eight people in the same condo that was being built
in Colorado Springs, so it's a high rise condo. They
sold the units. I'm making numbers up now because I
don't remember, but I think they were around two hundred
and fifty thousand. They had that exact clause you're talking

(01:22:43):
about in there. When they got almost ready to go
and they were done, they said, well, I know it
was two fifty, but this clause right here, it costs
more money to build. We want three hundred and twenty
five thousand, now seventy five thousand more dollars. And none
of these people understood how they could possibly do that,
but they did do it. We had attorneys involved, we
have everything. There's nothing anybody could do, and some people

(01:23:06):
simply couldn't afford the higher mortgage, which is insane.

Speaker 4 (01:23:09):
So they ended up getting their earnest money back.

Speaker 6 (01:23:11):
They definitely got that back, but they ended up not
getting a new unit because they could sell them for
that higher price. I mean, that's crazy. That's one of
the that's such a good thing you brought up because
how many people think of that. How about first time
home buyers? What do they know?

Speaker 11 (01:23:26):
I gotta give Cobal props. When I bought my house
during the COVID thing.

Speaker 4 (01:23:31):
Yes, they told me.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
You know, they had.

Speaker 11 (01:23:33):
Delays because the supply chain issues. Sure, and they're horrible.
They said, you know, you can get your earnest money back,
or we'll we'll build a house at the same price,
but we'll just have to wait until the supply chain
issue is resolved.

Speaker 4 (01:23:49):
And they got it done for you though.

Speaker 11 (01:23:50):
It took no problems, well other than other than the
delay in the building. Yeah, yeah, yeah, But other than that,
I thought they were pretty reasonable with what they.

Speaker 6 (01:23:58):
Offered, So they did what their do Brad give advice to,
like someone that's gonna just what we're talking about, someone
that's shopping for a new house.

Speaker 8 (01:24:06):
Well, advice to a first time home buyer would be
the same for any home buyer. Get an inspection, your
opportunities to find stuff and have it remedied, and addressment
is the highest before closing.

Speaker 6 (01:24:19):
Then after, you know, one of the biggest calls we
get on new purchases and people don't realize it is
cement the driveway. They don't you know it's not perfect?
And they'll say, hey, it's not perfect. They'll send us
a picture and it's Spaulding, and I can I can
count on one hand the times it's actually been handled
one hand. It's absolutely nuts. How about buying a regular house,

(01:24:43):
meaning not a new house. I mean, should someone hire
an attorney first time home.

Speaker 7 (01:24:47):
Buy I recommend it.

Speaker 8 (01:24:48):
In Colorado, the trend is home on the residential side
is people don't get an attorney.

Speaker 4 (01:24:53):
Why is that?

Speaker 6 (01:24:53):
Because I know when I was in New York, and
I believe even New Jersey, I'm pretty sure I had
to use an attorney.

Speaker 7 (01:24:58):
It's just not the way it's done in Colorado.

Speaker 8 (01:25:00):
In some states like New York, Illinois, Florida, it's very
common to have attorneys on both sides of all deals.
Yeahid even small residential But here people just sort of
cross their fingers hope nothing goes wrong.

Speaker 6 (01:25:11):
Well, I guess realtors though here, like Frank Duran, he's
a great realtor. He he, I guess he in a
way almost practices law when it comes to.

Speaker 7 (01:25:19):
Hey better not.

Speaker 8 (01:25:20):
Well, that's the thing is that real estate agents donnot
give legal advice.

Speaker 4 (01:25:23):
Oh, I know that.

Speaker 6 (01:25:24):
Trust me and he Frank co. Frank definitely does not.
But yeah, that's that's interesting you say that. But how
are they Well, I guess just because Colorado doesn't. In Colorado,
it's not even a part of enforcement. You don't have
to use an attorney. In some states you literally have
to use an.

Speaker 8 (01:25:42):
Attest Like South Carolina, you must close with an attorney. Yeah,
in an attorney off New York as well, I know
New York for sure. Yeah, some states are association.

Speaker 11 (01:25:50):
Frank is looking over a contract, you know, between a
boom seller and says, look, this doesn't look right. I
think you need legal advice. That's okay, I mean that's
what Frank would probably do.

Speaker 8 (01:26:01):
Oh yeah, And I know the Frank does that. That's
because I get calls from Frank from his clients. He's
very quick to recommend in an attorney, an attorney for
any kind of legal question.

Speaker 7 (01:26:09):
For you have to great advice.

Speaker 6 (01:26:11):
I mean, like especially on disclosures. I mean, disclosures are huge.
If you're selling your house and you have a realtor,
and that's great, they're trying to get the most money
for you. But if there's questions on hey, you know,
should I disclose this. I mean that's a big one
to have an attorney look at it.

Speaker 11 (01:26:26):
I just had you disclose your case with the leap
with the leech field.

Speaker 6 (01:26:30):
Yeah, that's right. And who knows where that's going. I mean,
honest to God, who knows where that's going. What What
is the biggest thing you've seen or you have dealt with,
Brad on a new build? Have you had a couple
come to you or a person come to you and
want to get out of I'm using this totally as
an example, but a kV home or a lenar home

(01:26:50):
or they have a warranty issue after the fact where
they should have hired someone like you to look at it.
What have you seen after the fact that you just
there's not much you can do.

Speaker 8 (01:27:00):
Yeah, warranty issues, the timing of closing, like the builder
taking too long to finish it and complete it and.

Speaker 7 (01:27:06):
Close on it charging more.

Speaker 8 (01:27:07):
These home builder contracts are very loose in terms of
setting a deadline for the home builder to be done
and go to closing, and when it comes to.

Speaker 3 (01:27:19):
Uh like.

Speaker 8 (01:27:22):
Upgrades and like having a budget for whatever for things
like cabinets or appliances.

Speaker 7 (01:27:29):
One problem is having.

Speaker 8 (01:27:30):
Just a just a big number for here's your budget
for plumbing, your plumbing fixtures, and you don't know what's
in that, you don't know what.

Speaker 7 (01:27:37):
Quality is on there.

Speaker 8 (01:27:38):
It is, So it's it's recommended, especially on the custom
home building side, to get a very detailed speck list
of of the make model of the fixtures and equipment
appliances rather than just like a lump sum.

Speaker 6 (01:27:50):
So when we bought our first house, Susanna and I,
it was in Clark Farms and Parker. We went with
US Homes and they built a and it went fair,
It went pretty fast, and honestly, ultimately I liked the product.
I ended up buying another one, but they changed to
I think Lenar Bottom, but we sold that house and

(01:28:11):
then we did buy the Lenar House in Castle Rocks.
So in two thousand and one we bought this house.
Now they offered free upgrades, like in other words, if
you wanted free hardwood floors in the kitchen and better
cabinets or better fixtures in the bathroom, whatever the upgrades are,
you know what I mean, upgrades better carpet for that matter,

(01:28:33):
but you had to use their mortgage company. Okay, So
we were like, oh yeah, well, we're definitely going to
do that. We're going to use their mortgage company. And
I bet these contracts are still out there till this day.
So then as we got closer to closing and I
was looking at the interest rate and looking at all this,
I started shopping around and realized they were like one

(01:28:54):
and a half points higher on the interest rate, and
I'm like, wait minute, wait a minute. And I started calculating,
you know, I'd never live in a house thirty years,
but people do. I mean, it's you're talking, You're talking
big dollars. So I said, well, can't you at least
get closer? And they wouldn't do anything nothing, absolutely wouldn't
do a damn thing. So I get upset. This is

(01:29:17):
two thousand and two. I started filling in for Martino.
Back then, I didn't do the show every day like
I do now with them. I was filling in because
I had computer businesses and other stuff going on. So
I called up Tom. I called him at home and said, hey, man,
what do you think of this? Suzanne and I are
getting ready to buy this. And I made the mistake.

(01:29:38):
I didn't look through it. I have to use their company,
but my god, they're almost two points higher. It's insane,
and so I got him involved, and I'm going to
tell you guys the outcome, but and i'll tell it
after the break, and i'll tell you what Tom did.

Speaker 4 (01:29:51):
It's crazy.

Speaker 6 (01:29:51):
But where I really wanted to go for this is
back to the new home purchase in the contract. I
wanted out at that point to use them. I couldn't
get out of that new home or they'd keep the
earnest money and possibly come after.

Speaker 4 (01:30:05):
Me for any kind of deficit if there was one.

Speaker 6 (01:30:08):
And worse than that, if I did want to move
in and go with another mortgage company that was lower,
I had to pay for all the upgrades that were
already done, and that was like twenty five thousand dollars
in their eyes.

Speaker 4 (01:30:20):
So I was in a no win situation.

Speaker 6 (01:30:22):
I was going to have a higher than normal interest
rate or I had to come another twenty grand out
of pocket.

Speaker 4 (01:30:27):
It was crazy. But after Tom got involved, I'll tell
you what happened.

Speaker 12 (01:30:36):
Go with a sure thing Denver's Best roofer Excel roofing
dot com. You don't pay a cent until you're content,
time for an insurance check up free, no obligation. In comparison,
call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
of insurance companies. Find out now three O three seven
to seven to one help. You'll think you're his only

(01:30:58):
customer when you choose Frank to round the real estate
man dot com to list your home with Remax Alliance
three oh three nine two zero sixteen twenty.

Speaker 4 (01:31:06):
Two all right three zero three seven.

Speaker 6 (01:31:12):
One three eight two five five three oh three seven
one three eight two five five. So I'm gonna finish
that story real quick. But basically, we Susanna and I
bought a new house by Lenar and we got free upgrades.
This is going back to two thousand and one, and
we got free upgrades on it. But we agreed to

(01:31:32):
use their mortgage lender, and of course they make money
on the points. And what ultimately happened is when we
were ready to go to closing, I shopped around and
they were a point and a half to two points.

Speaker 4 (01:31:44):
I don't remember the exact amount higher, which absolutely was crazy.

Speaker 6 (01:31:49):
I mean, that's a lot of money that sturms between
five percent and seven percent. So I was literally at
their building at the time. Lenar was at Lincoln and five.
The building's still there, but I don't think they're there.
And they were on the top floor and it was
a big conference room with one of those big tables,
and I was down there trying to talk to someone
to get this done, and they weren't going to do anything.

(01:32:12):
They gave me the option to either pay for the
upgrades twenty twenty five thousand dollars if I backed out,
they were going to keep our earnest money. Plus she
was pregnant, We're ready to have a baby. I mean,
we got to get into this house. I just couldn't believe.
To me, it was just unfair. That's what it came
down to. I called up Tom, I literally did. I
was filling in for him back then. In fact, we

(01:32:32):
were national. We were in New York to California. It
was pretty crazy with west was it Westwood? I think
it was called Westwood. It was nuts what we.

Speaker 4 (01:32:41):
Still broadcasted right out of this building.

Speaker 6 (01:32:44):
But I called them up and I put them on
speakerphone in front of these two guys. We're in this
big conference room. It's got a table the size of
like is something ridiculous. I mean like thirty feet long,
and it's just three of us in this one room
and I put on the table and bottom line, they
brought it down about a point in a quarter. Yep,

(01:33:04):
brought it down for me and they agreed to it
and everything went great.

Speaker 14 (01:33:08):
Man.

Speaker 6 (01:33:09):
So that was time Tom really helped me out big time.
I mean big time. It'd be funny. I wonder if
he actually remembers that, but it's nuts, man. But we're
talking to Brad O'Brien and Brad, actually I got someone's
got a question for you. But the homeowner stuff very important, right,
new homebuilder have an attorney?

Speaker 4 (01:33:27):
Have you look at it?

Speaker 8 (01:33:28):
I could add about the affiliated businesses with homebuilders? Did
they the biggest ones do have their affiliated mortgage companies
and title companies.

Speaker 4 (01:33:36):
Do they actually own those or they're just.

Speaker 8 (01:33:38):
I think they're commonly owned. That's that's why they're affiliated.
And sometimes they have even the same name, the same
accept that my say mortgage company or insurance company.

Speaker 7 (01:33:46):
But you're not required to use them. You're free to
choose your own company.

Speaker 4 (01:33:50):
And is that is that a law in Colorado?

Speaker 7 (01:33:52):
Actually you're you're free to choose your own vendors.

Speaker 6 (01:33:54):
But if they if they incentivize you with a free
upgrade like cabinets, then they turn around like they tried
to do to me.

Speaker 4 (01:34:01):
If you don't want to use them, charge.

Speaker 8 (01:34:03):
Yes, usedly makes sense to use their affiliated company because
when when you get a lower you got a better
deal and they get a little they make money on
it as well.

Speaker 4 (01:34:11):
Yeah, and then Doc brought up an interesting point.

Speaker 6 (01:34:13):
I could have just refined, that's true, but then you're
still doing closing costs and everything. Again, but it's a lot, right,
It's less than what the upgrade would have been my mortgage.

Speaker 11 (01:34:22):
And recently I had a they had a lender. I
had to qualify for the loan through their lender. As
long as I qualified for the loan, Yeah, then I
could find my own, uh mortgage company, because if I
couldn't find anybody else, then I would be sort of
backed into their their mortgage company. So that was the

(01:34:44):
hoop I had to jump through.

Speaker 6 (01:34:45):
Brad, what do you see, Let's get out of the
new home purchase and we know all the pitfalls there.
I mean, the bottom line is, have someone look at it.
If anything, you know you still want the house, but
be aware that it can take a long time. Be
aware they might be able to up a price on it.
Be aware of what you're signing, because if you do
want to back out, chances are you're not going to.

(01:35:06):
They'll hold on to that interest or that earnest money,
like you know, like a dead man gripping his gun
or something.

Speaker 4 (01:35:13):
I mean, seriously, it's really hard to get back.

Speaker 8 (01:35:17):
It's a leap of faith to be a purchaser of
a from a home builder on a new construction. It's
it's much safer to be the first purchaser on the
first resale.

Speaker 6 (01:35:27):
Yeah, and that goes for big companies or small companies,
even if it's a guy building or developing even one neighborhood.
That might even be more important to make sure an
attorney's involved with that where you're actually paying a builder
as you go, you know, a construction loan and stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:35:42):
You can dig into all that.

Speaker 6 (01:35:43):
Now, on the commercial side, what's the biggest thing, you say,
just commercial in general, what's the biggest phone call you get?
Is it from landlords? Is it from like tenants that
are going to run out of a strip mall? Like literally,
what's the biggest call you get or or maybe the
biggest problem you see?

Speaker 8 (01:36:02):
Well, I help a commercial owner. Property owners buy and
sell and do leasing. So everything yeah, And it's also
kind of economy driven. When the economy is great, it's
a lot of transactions. When the economy turns, it's litigation
mechanics leans tenants leaving before the end of the term,
that sort of thing.

Speaker 4 (01:36:22):
Can you do you do like UCC filings on inventory
and stuff?

Speaker 8 (01:36:26):
Yes, I do, so you do sometimes landlord gets landlords
get you see rights to foreclose on the furniture, fixure,
and equipment of a tenant.

Speaker 3 (01:36:35):
See.

Speaker 6 (01:36:35):
People don't understand how important that is. I'm talking, of
course from the landlords standpoint, but they can actually own
your inventory, and those UCC filings are very important, especially
if someone goes bankrupt on you, because you actually could
be first in line with that filing to go after
the equipment compared to someone that didn't have those filings.

(01:36:56):
And that goes for almost any industry, right, and it
could go for a whipment for like a print shop
or an automotive shop or anything.

Speaker 8 (01:37:03):
Yeah, my landlord clients don't too often go after the
equipment because it's really has liquidation value. Like a restaurant
that went out of business and used restaurant equipment, used tables.

Speaker 4 (01:37:13):
Yes, it's almost worth nothing.

Speaker 7 (01:37:14):
Yes, And it almost doesn't justify the cost of going
after it.

Speaker 4 (01:37:18):
That makes a lot of sense. The other thing.

Speaker 6 (01:37:22):
Is a lot of times the UCC is filed on
the inventory by the person that sold in the inventory
or the person that sold them or leasing them the equipment,
or if they didn't SEC there's already someone above you.

Speaker 8 (01:37:34):
If they didn't pay their sales taxes. The state of
Colorado steps in line first. Oh yeah, they do on
the sales tax Lian, the state is unbelievable. Hold on,
I can take this break, bow, I promise I'll get
to you after this.

Speaker 12 (01:37:50):
Go with a sure thing Denver's Best roofer Excel Roofing
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Speaker 15 (01:37:54):
You don't pay a cent until your content.

Speaker 12 (01:37:59):
Time for insurance check up free, no obligation comparison call
Compass insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens of
insurance companies find out now three oh three seven to
seven to one help. You'll think you're his only customer
when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot
com to list your home with Remax Alliance three all
three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.

Speaker 6 (01:38:26):
All right three oh three seven one three eight two
five five bo.

Speaker 4 (01:38:31):
What is going on with you.

Speaker 3 (01:38:32):
Bo.

Speaker 6 (01:38:32):
By the way, I want to tell everybody really quick,
one Clear Choice Doors dot Com. This is the garage
door company that we've been talking about for at least
fifteen years, if not twenty.

Speaker 4 (01:38:42):
They're on a.

Speaker 6 (01:38:42):
Referral list a referral list dot com. They have showrooms
up and down the front range. If you're looking for
a new garage door, but if you have a older
one and need a tune up, they got great prices
and you want to get it tuned up before it breaks,
if a spring goes out, or if you need a
new garage door opener or anything like that, these guys
can handle it. One clear Choice Doors dot Com. Now, Bo,

(01:39:08):
you have a question actually for Brad. What is your
question for Brad?

Speaker 2 (01:39:12):
Sir?

Speaker 14 (01:39:13):
Yes, hi, Brad. Hey, I've been working on this case
and Common Mark know about it. Is Joel Joe from
Alison Mechanical and Brad you helped him put a mechanics
clean on his property. Basically, he provided materials onto this.
He let his friend use an account, a plumbing account.

(01:39:36):
It was a boiler installation, so Joe did not get
paid for the materials. So Joe, with your help, put
a mechanic clean on the property.

Speaker 4 (01:39:49):
Wait a minute, so I want to get this straight.

Speaker 6 (01:39:50):
So the caller had someone he knew, like an employer
or somebody, use his account in an eight VAC company.

Speaker 14 (01:40:01):
Yeah it was. It was another company. It was called
ken Call Construction. They used his account, got it about
six thousand dollars worth of material? Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:40:11):
They did?

Speaker 2 (01:40:12):
Did they? Did? They?

Speaker 4 (01:40:13):
But hold on, bo did they use his account with permission?

Speaker 2 (01:40:17):
Yes?

Speaker 14 (01:40:18):
They did.

Speaker 6 (01:40:18):
Okay, So that's where I was getting there. And then
it got delivered and then what happened?

Speaker 14 (01:40:24):
Okay, So the contractor Ken Call installed the system, but
they didn't pay Joe for the for the materials.

Speaker 4 (01:40:32):
Now, who didn't pay Joe? Nobody.

Speaker 14 (01:40:35):
Nobody paid Joe, not the homeowner where the installation.

Speaker 6 (01:40:39):
Oh so then so then they called you, Brad. Is
this what I'm understanding?

Speaker 7 (01:40:45):
Yeah, let me clarify.

Speaker 8 (01:40:46):
So I didn't help Joe file the mechanics SLEAN, but
I did speak with him in general about mechanics leans
and his situation by the pace on it. Yeah, and
by the way, he did. He did call me this
week and authorized me to discuss his at her with Tom.

Speaker 7 (01:41:01):
So yeah, I'm not reaching any client confidentiality.

Speaker 4 (01:41:04):
Yeah, yeah, we know, of course you never would.

Speaker 6 (01:41:06):
But so so the bottom line is you just gave
him some information and then both did the guy end
up getting paid?

Speaker 2 (01:41:13):
No?

Speaker 14 (01:41:13):
This is the story that I want really good clarification
because Mark, you and Tom told me on it all right.

Speaker 6 (01:41:20):
Hold on though, man, we're coming up. Hold on, hold on,
and then Michael you hold on too. But I know
where he's going to go, and we're going to talk
about it next hour.

Speaker 4 (01:41:28):
And you can look at it either way.

Speaker 6 (01:41:31):
There's two ways to look at What I'm going to
refer to is an affirmative defense against the lean in Colorado.
It's very important pay attention to this. If you're a homeowner,
it's going to be big.

Speaker 12 (01:41:50):
Go with a sure thing Denver's Best Roofer Excel Roofing
dot com.

Speaker 15 (01:41:54):
You don't pay a cent until you're content.

Speaker 12 (01:42:00):
For an insurance check up free no obligation comparison call
Compass insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens of
insurance companies find out now three oh three, seven seven
to one help. You'll think you're his only customer when
you choose Frank durand the Real estate Man dot com
to list your home with Remax Alliance three oh three
nine two zero sixteen twenty two.

Speaker 2 (01:42:25):
D tough news.

Speaker 1 (01:42:29):
Need advice, so you don't have.

Speaker 2 (01:42:32):
Come. Run inxious as fast as we can.

Speaker 1 (01:42:36):
Shooter's gonna help come man.

Speaker 5 (01:42:40):
This is the Troubleshooter Show Now, Tom Martinez, welcome my.

Speaker 4 (01:42:44):
Friends to the only show of this came.

Speaker 6 (01:42:46):
We're here to solve problems, answer questions, take your complaints,
pick our brains. We'd love you to do that. Three
oh three Martino is a phone number. Two lines open,
three oh three seven one three eight two five five.
We're gonna go back to Deputy Bow. But I need
to tell everybody about water pros. Shuzanna and I got
a softener from Paul. How long ago is that pay?

Speaker 4 (01:43:07):
It's been a good year year plus.

Speaker 6 (01:43:08):
You love it Toash, I love it. I'll tell you
why I love it. I've had to go out and
buy the salt for it once. I mean, it's crazy.
It goes through so slow. It's probably there's only two
of us, but ours is for a big house. The
whole thing costs less than thirty five hundred dollars thirty
five hundred bucks.

Speaker 4 (01:43:24):
We got it.

Speaker 6 (01:43:24):
We had other companies out besides waterpros dot com or
dot net, and they were eight thousand to twelve thousand
more than double.

Speaker 4 (01:43:32):
And now he's got a system. Listen to this. This
is crazy.

Speaker 6 (01:43:36):
Thirty six ninety nine under thirty seven hundred bucks. It
gets rid of forever chemicals in your entire house, whole house.
It softens the water and make sure the chlorine's acceptable.
You understand what I'm saying. It's unbelievable for under thirty
seven hundred bucks. Other places, you know, thirteen thousand dollars
waterpros dot net, water pros dot net.

Speaker 4 (01:43:59):
Now I'm going back to Bow. He has an update.

Speaker 6 (01:44:01):
But we had a caller that basically Brad just talked
to the guy, didn't engage with him, but he might
actually hire him at this point. But what happened was,
I'm going to say this as quick as I can,
somebody allowed someone to use their wholesale account or account
at an.

Speaker 4 (01:44:22):
HVAC supply house.

Speaker 6 (01:44:24):
They delivered and installed I assume bo the furnace to
the person's house.

Speaker 4 (01:44:30):
Is that correct? So far?

Speaker 14 (01:44:32):
Yes, they installed two boilers in a water so.

Speaker 4 (01:44:35):
They installed that stuff.

Speaker 6 (01:44:37):
But the person that was allowed to use the account,
that's not the problem never paid the supplier.

Speaker 14 (01:44:43):
Right, they never paid the supply.

Speaker 6 (01:44:46):
So therefore the person that allowed him to use the
wholesale account is looking at a bill from the supplier period.

Speaker 14 (01:44:53):
Right. And in this situation, even though he's an individual,
I believe he is now acting as the supplier because
he is the one that basically allowed the materials to
be delivered.

Speaker 6 (01:45:04):
Yeah, no, I would agree with that he is. He
definitely is the supplier at this point. But here's where
I think you were going. The supplier can put a
lien on the property. There's no doubt about that. They
have to do it. What's the period of time? Let's
walk through that real quick for everybody. So, if a
contractor wants to put a lien on a property because

(01:45:26):
they never got paid, let's say an HVAC contractor, when
do they have to do it by? Isn't it thirty
or forty days or ninety days?

Speaker 3 (01:45:34):
What is it now?

Speaker 8 (01:45:34):
Before they record a mechanical leane against the property, they
have to serve a ten day notice of intent to
lean and that's got to be delivered at least ten
days before the recording, and that ten day notice has
to be delivered within excuse me. The ten days plus
the recording have to be done within four months after
the contractors last week, so.

Speaker 6 (01:45:53):
One hundred and twenty days roughly. Ye, so in one
hundred and twenty days. So if in other words, you wouldn't, well,
you can lean a property at any point. But what
I'm saying, in order to have a valid lian if
you will, if they didn't do any work in a
five month period, they missed the window.

Speaker 8 (01:46:10):
Yeah, a mechanic or a contractor has a lean from
day one, papering it and recording it is perfecting.

Speaker 4 (01:46:16):
The lean is god.

Speaker 8 (01:46:17):
And if you don't perfect it and follow the timeline,
then your lean expires automatically.

Speaker 6 (01:46:22):
Okay, now in this case, and then I want to
pick your brain on leans, just so everybody understands how
they work. But in this case, they were in the
time frame and the supplier, who was this guy who
allowed this other company that apparently is no good to
use his account, is going to lean the property right bo.

Speaker 14 (01:46:44):
Yes, And he already leaned the PEAT file the intent
and recorded the lean and it was all done within
the time period.

Speaker 6 (01:46:52):
Yep, it's all done in the time period. So the
next party's got to do and Brad please, you're the
attorney that does this all the time. But he's got
to literally take them to court and basically prove that
they owe money, right yese.

Speaker 8 (01:47:05):
Within six months after the last work or after the
completion of the project, the mechanic who's the starting a
lean has to file a claim, a court claim for
foreclosure of that mechanic's.

Speaker 4 (01:47:16):
Lane, right. And that's basically in front of a judge.
I mean it is.

Speaker 7 (01:47:19):
It's in district court too, not county court.

Speaker 18 (01:47:21):
Yees.

Speaker 6 (01:47:21):
So I mean it's a real court date. You show
up and you prove that they owe you money or
prove whatever. You prove your case and then if that happens,
we can talk about the collection part of it later.
But that's that's it. It's it's pretty much done and
over the leans on the property.

Speaker 4 (01:47:35):
Now.

Speaker 6 (01:47:36):
The problem that I see with this, and Bo this
was the question I think you were going to is
in Colorado we actually have an affirmative defense, but only
certain things. Certain things have to be in place for
it to work. One was this property a single family dwelling.

Speaker 14 (01:47:58):
Yes, okay, assl.

Speaker 4 (01:48:00):
Pines yes, correct.

Speaker 6 (01:48:02):
Did they have a contract in writing a contract with
the person that installed the furnace. Yes, did they pay
that person for the furnace?

Speaker 14 (01:48:15):
Yes, a contractor was Ken Call Construction. The amount of
the job is thirty eight thousand dollars in the ladies
that own the house paid the contractor for.

Speaker 6 (01:48:24):
The work, so the contractor was paid in full. It's
a single family home. And does the owner of that
single family home actually live there?

Speaker 14 (01:48:34):
She lives there, and she's the owner.

Speaker 4 (01:48:36):
And that's it.

Speaker 6 (01:48:37):
I mean, so when they go to perfect it, actually,
what is that called? You already said when the perfection was,
what's it called? When you bring them to court, you're not.
I mean, you're basically suing them.

Speaker 7 (01:48:49):
So foreclosure of the mechanics lane, that's what is.

Speaker 6 (01:48:51):
Called the foreclosure. So when they go to that part,
the foreclosure of the mechanics lane, that woman or that guy,
whoever it is is, they could simply assert that affirmative
defense if they met that criteria, and then that person
or that supplier would not win the case.

Speaker 14 (01:49:12):
That's what I want to know, because you guys told
me last week, since she's the homeowner and she paid
the bill, that she could get out of the she
could get out of this.

Speaker 6 (01:49:21):
Tradition everything, if everything I just said, if everything I
just said, or if everything that you answered the questions
I said is correct, Yes, single family dwelling. She paid
the contractor in full. She has that affirmative defense, so.

Speaker 14 (01:49:38):
The supplier has no right to collect on the materials
that were supplied. Well, I don't understand the.

Speaker 6 (01:49:47):
Homeowner bo bo bo listen. I mean whether you understand it,
whether it's right or not, doesn't matter. But here's the
interesting part. They would have to assert that defense. I mean,
am I correcting that, Brad? I mean if they walked
in in the woman had no idea about that, would
a judge automatically do that?

Speaker 4 (01:50:04):
In your eyes?

Speaker 6 (01:50:04):
Or the judge doesn't get involved in the argument side
or do they if there is an affirmative defense to
anything for that matter, and.

Speaker 8 (01:50:12):
Affirmative this affirmative defense is not like you you assert
it and then the case is over. You still have
to win with this affirmative defense, either at trial or
an emotion for summery judgment.

Speaker 4 (01:50:23):
Correct.

Speaker 6 (01:50:23):
But I'm saying if the homeowner in this did not
even know this was a and shows up by themselves
when they get sued or when they go for the
foreclosure action.

Speaker 4 (01:50:32):
Would the judge actually tell her about it.

Speaker 7 (01:50:35):
No, judges don't give legal advice, That's what I mean.

Speaker 6 (01:50:37):
So they wouldn't. So if she doesn't know about it,
they could still get paid.

Speaker 4 (01:50:42):
You're right, I'll give you another.

Speaker 6 (01:50:43):
I'll give everybody out there another instance. You know, there's
a statute of limitation on debt collection. So if you
didn't pay in most circumstances, depending on where you live
or what state, six seven years, and you didn't renew it,
and you didn't make any payments on it, the statute's gone.

Speaker 4 (01:51:02):
It's just simply gone.

Speaker 6 (01:51:03):
But they can still serve you bring you to court
in front of a judge and try to prove their case.
But if you don't point out to them that it's
past the statute of limitations, they could literally win the case.

Speaker 4 (01:51:16):
Do you follow what I'm saying.

Speaker 14 (01:51:18):
Yeah, So basically this guy's hose, he's not going to
be able to collect if.

Speaker 6 (01:51:23):
She asserts that. If she asserts that affirmative defense.

Speaker 14 (01:51:27):
Well I'm sure she'll hire an attorney. And Brad quoted
you know a cost to do a judicial foreclosure of
ten thousand dollars. Well, markets like these rooping companies roofing
companies supply rooping materials YEP, and roopers do roughs, and
then the supply the rooting.

Speaker 2 (01:51:44):
It.

Speaker 6 (01:51:45):
It's just it's the exact same thing. Bo, there's no difference.
It's the exact same thing. If they meet the criteria.

Speaker 11 (01:51:52):
Can't they suit subcontractors to the contractor for the materials.

Speaker 4 (01:51:56):
Bough, Yeah, that's what they have to do. That's that's
his remedy.

Speaker 6 (01:52:00):
This is if she asserts this and she doesn't have
to pay the supplier and everything goes in her favor,
which I'm pretty sure it would if she has an attorney.

Speaker 4 (01:52:09):
I know it would. But but then he.

Speaker 6 (01:52:11):
Goes after that contractor that used his account.

Speaker 14 (01:52:15):
That would be an alternative, but he's explored that.

Speaker 4 (01:52:17):
Well, I think that's going to be the only alternative
in this case. You know, I'll give it. And I
know where you're saying he has no recourse.

Speaker 10 (01:52:24):
He does have recourse, Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:52:25):
After that person. But I know what Bo saying. Both
saying it's not fair. It's just simply not fair, because
it's just not fair. That's really saying. It's got nothing
to do with law. But I'll give you, I'll give
you an idea because people might not think. A contractor
might not like or a subcontractor, i should say, might
not like this affirmative defense.

Speaker 4 (01:52:45):
But I'll give you. I'll give you an idea. If
your employer.

Speaker 6 (01:52:50):
Takes money out of your check to pay taxes, okay,
if they take money out of your check, you're just
a regular employee, and you made a hundred dollars and
of course your checks for eighty because the twenty dollars
was taken out for taxes, and that employer is unscrupulous
and decides instead of sending that twenty dollars to Uncle Sam,

(01:53:15):
that that employer keeps the twenty dollars. Okay, Eventually the
irs the W two's will match up and everything will
come down. A guy named Don Eiley did this and
he ripped off so many small businesses and Colorado was crazy.
So basically what happens here is the small business is
left holding the bag, believe it or not, with the irs.

(01:53:38):
And in this case, the small business is left holding
the bag. So the small business, even though they paid
the accountant that was supposed to give it to the
Uncle Sam, didn't give it to Uncle Sam.

Speaker 4 (01:53:49):
They still owe all the payroll.

Speaker 6 (01:53:51):
Taxes in don Eiley's case over ten million dollars across
fifty sixty different small businesses, and some of them are
listening today. I guarantee it. That's how don on Iley
got busted. But it took ten years and they went
after the small businesses. But the affirmative defense, you might think,
wait a second, why.

Speaker 4 (01:54:10):
Doesn't the employee actually owe it?

Speaker 6 (01:54:13):
How come these people get stuck holding the bag because
why couldn't you use the same defense with the employee,
Because ultimately that money coming out of the paycheck is
on my behalf, So ultimately I didn't pay the IRS, but.

Speaker 4 (01:54:28):
They do hold it there.

Speaker 6 (01:54:30):
So the affirmative defense, the IRS won't go after the employee,
but they'll nail the business to the wall, which is
absolutely incredible. And that guy ruined a lot of lives.
Hey bo, I appreciate it. Three oh three seven one
three talk.

Speaker 12 (01:54:50):
Go with a sure thing Denver's Best roofer Excel Roofing
dot com. You don't pay a cent until you're content.
Time for an insurance check up free, no obligation. In comparison,
call Compass insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven
seven to one.

Speaker 4 (01:55:10):
Help.

Speaker 12 (01:55:10):
You'll think you're his only customer when you choose Frank
durand the real estate man dot Com to list your
home with Remax Alliance. Three oh three nine two zero
sixteen twenty two.

Speaker 4 (01:55:22):
All right, three oh three seven one three eight two
five five three oh.

Speaker 6 (01:55:27):
Three Martino, you know we were talking during the break, Well,
real quick, I do want to tell you about somebody
and eight eight eight heating dot Com. I know another commercial.
Blah blah blah, I can already. These are good guys, though,
here's the bottom line. You want someone that'll come out
and actually give you a bit on fixing something.

Speaker 4 (01:55:44):
These are your guys. They're not going to.

Speaker 6 (01:55:46):
Just say, hey, that furnace needs a blower, so therefore
you should spend you know, a million dollars on a
new furnace. They're going to give you a price to
repair it, and it's going to be a fair price.
Then if you do want an estimate on a new system,
they'll give it to you. And they have high efficiency systems,
they have cheaper systems like eighty percent furnaces. They've got
it all. They've got the whole gamut. They have heat pumps,

(01:56:08):
they got mini splits, the sky's got at all. They're
really good people. Eight eighty eight Heating dot Com. Now
we were talking about the affirmative defense. Now I trust fund.
I want to talk about trust fund because this is
a big one in Colorado. If you pay a contractor,
I'll give you an example. You call a guy up

(01:56:32):
to finish your basement, a general contractor, and he comes
over and he quotes you fifty thousand dollars to do
the basement, and he says, I want ten thousand dollars
down to get started. So you write him a check
for ten and he cashes the check and then basically
he never shows up again. So Brad Brad O'Brien, attorney,

(01:56:53):
real estate attorney, at that point when he cashes at
ten thousand dollars, explain the trust fund.

Speaker 8 (01:57:00):
Well, there is the trust fund Statute in Colorado which
is under the Mechanics Lean Statutes. That says, basically, if
if a property owner pays some money to the general
contractor for further payment to the sub the subs and
suppliers of the general contractor, then that general contractor holds
those funds in trust.

Speaker 4 (01:57:18):
YEP, meaning it's only for that job.

Speaker 7 (01:57:21):
Yeah, and right, no commingling allowed.

Speaker 8 (01:57:24):
A general can't contractor cannot take funds from one project
and allocate to other projects.

Speaker 6 (01:57:29):
So we always hear the scenario Rob Peter to pay Paul.
That's basically what this stops because a lot of contractors,
and it's true, a lot, I don't care what they do.
You know, they get that ten thousand dollars check and
they still got to finish another job somewhere and they
basically use that ten thousand dollars to finish that before
they start this job. It just happens all the time. Yes,

(01:57:52):
but technically they're not supposed to do it. But I
also don't want people to think like contractors have to
have fifty different bank accounts.

Speaker 4 (01:58:00):
Doesn't work that way. So when you said you.

Speaker 6 (01:58:02):
Don't co mingle funds, it's kind of strange because honestly,
all the funds can be in the same bank account,
but they got to be earmarked, right.

Speaker 8 (01:58:10):
The funds can't be expended so that they're no longer
in the bank account.

Speaker 4 (01:58:13):
Yeah, so that's a great way to look at it.

Speaker 8 (01:58:16):
I mean, if somebody gives you one thousand dollars, earn
the other one.

Speaker 4 (01:58:19):
Thousand bucks in there exactly.

Speaker 6 (01:58:21):
And if they gave you ten thousand dollars and did
five thousand dollars worth of work, there needs to be
five thousand in that's right.

Speaker 4 (01:58:27):
So what happens if that does happen?

Speaker 8 (01:58:29):
Well, under this trust fund statute, it basically says that
if a general contractor violates it, then they're held responsible
as well under the civil theft statute in Colorado, which
is even worse because that makes the company and its
officers personally liable for those amounts.

Speaker 6 (01:58:49):
So, therefore, if I wrote a check to ABC contractor
for ten thousand dollars in the scenario we're using, and
he never shows up, and.

Speaker 4 (01:58:59):
What do you do? Then you call an attorney.

Speaker 6 (01:59:00):
I mean that's basically the first place you'd start. I'm
saying real world because these are the calls we take
all the time. So real world. What does someone do
like that when they're sitting there? Well, you start off
with the demand letter to return the money.

Speaker 4 (01:59:15):
Yeah, But I mean generally you're going to hire an attorney, right.

Speaker 7 (01:59:17):
Do the work. Yeah, And if that doesn't work, then
you look to a lawsuit.

Speaker 4 (01:59:21):
Yeah, you would look at a lawsuit.

Speaker 6 (01:59:23):
And the cool part you just said, is how about
if how about if ABC Construction went out of business.
That's where you're saying the owners of it or whoever
this person was, could be held personally liable. Yeah, the officers, right,
any of them, if there was ten owners, all of
them possibly yep.

Speaker 8 (01:59:39):
And the civil theest statute also provides for a troubling
and if it's really egregious.

Speaker 6 (01:59:43):
Trouble damages. But here's the problem, you know the problem
with this law.

Speaker 4 (01:59:48):
Think about it.

Speaker 6 (01:59:49):
What's the problem Generally when you're up against this what happens.

Speaker 4 (01:59:53):
Well, you get a judgment.

Speaker 8 (01:59:55):
If there's no money to pay the judgment, then the
defense is judgment proof.

Speaker 18 (01:59:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:59:59):
So what I think think that law should do, and
I'm curious if you agree or disagree.

Speaker 4 (02:00:04):
I think there should be jail time associated.

Speaker 7 (02:00:06):
Well, that would be a criminal theft. This is a
civil theF I.

Speaker 6 (02:00:08):
Know that, But I mean, there's no These guys go
out of business left and right. These contractors take money,
You go after them, you get the judgment, and there's
nothing else.

Speaker 4 (02:00:18):
That's it.

Speaker 6 (02:00:19):
They go bankrupt and they move to They moved to
New Mexico and do the same damn thing again.

Speaker 4 (02:00:24):
It drives me insane.

Speaker 6 (02:00:25):
So but if you had a criminal and I don't
think there might be a small part of the criminal
part in there, but I think it's like a misdemeanor.

Speaker 4 (02:00:33):
I'm not even sure if you would do jail time.
Do you know off top of your head.

Speaker 7 (02:00:36):
I don't practice criminal law.

Speaker 4 (02:00:37):
Yeah, so I don't know.

Speaker 6 (02:00:40):
But if they have assets, absolutely, I mean then you
could go after them.

Speaker 4 (02:00:44):
What other.

Speaker 6 (02:00:46):
I'll go to Donna in a second. What what other
things When it comes to the Trust Fund Statute, Well.

Speaker 8 (02:00:54):
It also has an attorney feed provision, so you can
get that back.

Speaker 7 (02:00:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (02:00:57):
If a lot of contracts don't have an attorney prevailing
party attorney feed provisions, so you could see somebody win
but not get your attorney fees reimbursed.

Speaker 7 (02:01:05):
He might break even for example.

Speaker 10 (02:01:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (02:01:06):
Yeah, but if you have a claim under the Trust
Fund Statute, it has its own attorney feed provision for
the party, for the the party that brought the claim
and wins.

Speaker 6 (02:01:17):
So even though there's no criminal on what we're talking about,
but it is interesting because trouble damages and attorney's fees
that could be big if there was assets on the
other side. If it's a decent sized company, or if
the officers literally had money.

Speaker 4 (02:01:31):
I mean, you could recover a lot.

Speaker 6 (02:01:33):
In the scenario we use, you could get thirty thousand
dollars and whatever you pay for the attorney. That's a
possible outcome. Yeah, I mean that's pretty that. That does
have some teeth. It's very similar to like bad checks
in Colorado. You get to treble damages and other stuff
like that. So that that is kind of cool. How

(02:01:54):
do I put this?

Speaker 3 (02:01:55):
What?

Speaker 6 (02:01:57):
I want to revisit this? If it was up to you,
I know you're not a criminal attorney, I get that,
but if it was up to you, actually you just
simply I don't think you care because you work both sides,
which is cool. I mean that's what attorneys do. But
do you think there should be jail time for breaking
those kind of statutes.

Speaker 8 (02:02:16):
Someone feels strongly that they want to get the person
in trouble criminally, yeah, and they're free to contact the
district attorney and make a claim, you know, a criminal
reporting yeah, a theft? Yeah, all right, I don't get
involved in that.

Speaker 4 (02:02:29):
Kelly. What's your comment on contractors?

Speaker 17 (02:02:32):
Hey, you guys, I just make a comment.

Speaker 4 (02:02:35):
Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 17 (02:02:36):
A real general, a real general contractor that is upright,
and a real general contractor that is upright doesn't take
money up front. They financed the entire job mostly yeah,
send you No not.

Speaker 4 (02:02:52):
Mostly well no, wait wait Kelly, Kelly, No.

Speaker 17 (02:02:57):
There is no that's what That's what people are getting screwed.
I'm not talking just roof in a house or something, Kelly.
Having a plumber come over and run you a drain,
Kelly and stuff?

Speaker 4 (02:03:06):
Kelly, Can I talk for a second. How about if
how about if.

Speaker 6 (02:03:09):
I have a custom house and I want to get
new windows for it, and I have K and H
or Garvinus or someone come out and they're going to measure,
and they're going to order from a factory custom windows.
You don't think you're gonna you shouldn't put a deposit down,
Absolutely you should. Those windows can't be used anywhere else.

Speaker 14 (02:03:28):
No.

Speaker 17 (02:03:29):
I work on Mark. We work on eighteen million dollar houses,
forty forty.

Speaker 4 (02:03:33):
Million dollar housw do you do on them.

Speaker 3 (02:03:35):
Our custom houses?

Speaker 17 (02:03:36):
I'm on a fire sprinker company, okay, okay, And I
have never been paid up front ever, one can I
for anything?

Speaker 15 (02:03:45):
Kelly?

Speaker 6 (02:03:46):
I agree with you ninety five percent of the time.
If you listen to the show. I'm the one always
touting that. But there is some special order stuff. I
simply disagree with you. You know we can we can disagree.

Speaker 17 (02:04:00):
But general contractor, if you have a custom house, when
you're ordering sixty five different windows at each of them,
the cost on them is over three and four grand.

Speaker 12 (02:04:09):
Go with a sure thing Denver's Best roofer Excel Roofing
dot com.

Speaker 15 (02:04:13):
You don't pay a cent until you're content.

Speaker 12 (02:04:19):
Time for an insurance check up free no obligation comparison
call Compass Insurance paying too much your coverage at dozens
of insurance companies find out now three oh three seven
seven to one help. You'll think you're his only customer
when you choose Frank durand the real estate Man dot
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three nine two zero sixteen twenty two.

Speaker 6 (02:04:41):
All right, three oh three seven one three eight two
five five three zero three Martino. Now, mister Dimitri, you've
got some questions for Brad.

Speaker 4 (02:04:52):
What do you got?

Speaker 6 (02:04:53):
I love educating people, honestly, God, And by the way,
I'm gonna turn over you in a second. But olslaw
dot com. If you're a landlord out there, really, if
you haven't updated your lease, call Brad. If you're looking
at buying a house, I don't care if it's a
brand new house like we talked about new construction, I
just don't care. And if you're buying a house with
somebody other than your spouse, my goodness, called Brad. That's

(02:05:16):
a big one, because that can create more issues than
you've ever seen. If your kids going off to college,
here's one that has hit me. If your kid's going
off to college and is looking at moving into a
house with other roommates, my goodness, have Brad look over it. Brad,
I'm sure you know this, but in most of these settings,
I'm not talking a dorm room. I'm talking these rentals

(02:05:37):
around campuses. You're responsible for everything. Everybody on the lease
is responsible for everything. So if everybody else ditches, they
can come after you. If you're the parent, they can
come after you if you co signed on it. But
go ahead, sir, Brad.

Speaker 16 (02:05:52):
Let's talk about bad neighbors for a moment and what
and what relief one can find in civil courts. So
all seen all of these stories about a typical, you know,
hoarder situation where they fill their house in the yard
with all kinds of junk. Those homes inevitably burned down
and sometimes they explode.

Speaker 4 (02:06:13):
What are you saying an iceore?

Speaker 16 (02:06:14):
Not just an iceore, but a safety problem. How many
times have we heard of hoarders homes blowing up?

Speaker 4 (02:06:20):
What's the question to him?

Speaker 10 (02:06:22):
What can the neighbors do? If anything?

Speaker 8 (02:06:25):
Well, the most expedient thing is to call the local
city or county building department because that's probably a building
code violation Arizona.

Speaker 7 (02:06:33):
Yeah, yeah, and.

Speaker 8 (02:06:34):
Get them, get the city or county working against the
neighbor's who's got a bunch of stuff. But if you
have to sue the homeowner directly for some nuisance situation,
that's a nuisance lawsuit that takes a whole lot longer
to resolve.

Speaker 16 (02:06:50):
And what is a nuisance lawsuit? I mean, it doesn't
sound like there's a simple and cheap solution to this.
This sounds like a difficult I mean, I can't even
wrap my mind around what a nuisance lawsuit looks like.

Speaker 10 (02:07:02):
What the relief basket.

Speaker 8 (02:07:03):
In case, there's a threshold to bring a nuisance lawsuit
because the courts and the law presumed that people have
thick skins, so garden variety disputes between neighbors, like shouting
and name calling. There's really no remedy in court. Courts
really are not set up to do to handle this
kind of situations, because if they were, courts would be
overfull with lawsuits about people yelling at each other and

(02:07:26):
calling each other names.

Speaker 6 (02:07:27):
On that topic, Suzanne, do you remember the light, the
guy with the bright light? So listen to this Tomitri
a little before your time, he had I think it
was a newer house he just built, and he put
up these beautiful they like street lights, but they were.

Speaker 4 (02:07:43):
In his driveway. But when they were turned on, they were.

Speaker 6 (02:07:46):
So bright the neighbors were going ape, you know what
I'm saying. So, but the curious part is he actually
had a company come out and measure the light. The
light was too bright for the zoning. Well well, but
hold on, it really was. It wasn't supposed to be
as bright as it was according to the municipality.

Speaker 4 (02:08:08):
I think it was indepth.

Speaker 8 (02:08:09):
But very few municipalities have actual objective numbers for lumens
or or if it's a sound violation for decibels. Yeah,
and so if there is something like that, great you
can say oh this, this municipality has this decibel limit and.

Speaker 19 (02:08:23):
They did Okay, but they wouldn't do anything. But that's
really I know, so do a damn thing, right. Noosan's
cases are the strongest when there's some physical manifestation of
something off site coming on site.

Speaker 4 (02:08:35):
Got it.

Speaker 7 (02:08:35):
So if there's like a factory.

Speaker 8 (02:08:37):
That's blowing smoke and the smoke lands on your property, Okay,
then that's a stronger lawsuit than if it's some off
site noise.

Speaker 4 (02:08:43):
Yeah, I got it.

Speaker 6 (02:08:44):
No, that makes sense, and then that's a big one
in apartments of course, here all the time, you know,
the person above me's making noise.

Speaker 4 (02:08:50):
Go ahead, Dmitri.

Speaker 3 (02:08:51):
Yeah. No.

Speaker 16 (02:08:52):
In the example, the theoretical example that I cited, you
know this, the nuisance that that I told you about
also has a direct impact on the value of the
neighbor's properties.

Speaker 10 (02:09:02):
I mean, it's much more.

Speaker 16 (02:09:03):
Difficult to sell a house or big to do when
the potential buyers come over and witness this mess.

Speaker 10 (02:09:09):
So is that part of the damages that I can see?

Speaker 8 (02:09:12):
Concord, Well, you don't get to the damages question, like
how much you owe somebody for something you did, until
you've gotten past the causation and you're shown that you
have a claim that's recognized under law. So somebody calls
you a name, your neighbor calls you a name.

Speaker 10 (02:09:28):
And that's not part of my example.

Speaker 16 (02:09:31):
I want you think exactly about, well, the hoarder situation
you're saying full of garbage.

Speaker 6 (02:09:36):
Hold on, So we're in a we're in a neighborhood
with no ho aa and the guy next to me
has a house and he's got old couches in the
front yard and a refrigerator. You know, we're talking the
craziest looking hillbilly house ever and that and he's not
supposed to. He's simply not supposed to. Is that kind
of where you're going?

Speaker 10 (02:09:56):
And let's make it even worse.

Speaker 16 (02:09:58):
Loud music at all hours of the nine, the motorcycles revving,
and gunshots once in a while, you name it. And
I can't sell my house because of that.

Speaker 6 (02:10:06):
Wait, here's a real world case, Brad, and let's let
me use this as an example. I got to take
the break. But this is real world. This happened. Not
only did they call into this show, it was on
Fox thirty one. They were selling their house in a
cul de sac. The guy on the other end of
the cul de sac had a banner on the side
of his house. On the side of his house that

(02:10:26):
was massive, and the banner said something like I party
and I'm paraphrasing I party all night, play loud music,
and I have pit bulls. It was the craziest thing ever.
And they were having trouble selling their house because as
soon as someone would come in and look at it,
and in this case, there was no HOA.

Speaker 4 (02:10:44):
Is that a good example.

Speaker 10 (02:10:45):
That's perfect example of what I'm asking.

Speaker 4 (02:10:47):
We'll talk about it right after this