January 15, 2026 • 8 mins
Dr. Noah Dormady of Ohio State says they are safe and energy efficient and gives us details on how they work
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I want to spend some time talking about powering some
of these data centers in central Ohio. I don't know,
I'm kind of a geek on when it comes to
this stuff. That's fascinating. You've got all of these these
chip manufacturers, these AI data centers in central I don't
even know how many. I've lost track. I think we've
got well over one hundred in Ohio. And they all
(00:22):
need power. They all need electricity or some way to operate,
and they are power hogs. And I see a situation
where a Meta, which is the parent company of Facebook
and Instagram, has reached a deal for nuclear power in
New Albany. And let's go to our expert. It's doctor
Noah Dormandy, expert in energy economics and policy at the
(00:43):
Ohio State University. Doctor Dormidy, good morning, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Good morning? Very well? Thank you good.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I appreciate you jumping on and maybe answering some questions
and giving us some clarity. You know, people hear about
nuclear power, Noah, and you know they kind of start
to grip up a little bit because they think about
three Mile Island, or they think about Chernobyl and the
nuclear waste. And you know what does it mean for
you know, the environment and people in the area. In reality,
(01:11):
we've come a long way since then, haven't we.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
We sure have.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So when it comes to you know, producing nuclear power
on these for these AI data centers, you know you
hear about s m rs, these small modular reactors. What
can you explain what those are?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Small modular reactors. You think about the nuclear reactors that
are around SAT naval vessels. These are much smaller, much
more cost effective, much more efficient in terms of scale
facilities than the larger, you know, larger nuclear powerhouses that
(01:52):
we see up on Lake Erie for example. So they
are what we call fuel immune. You think about a
traditional power plant, like a natural gas plant, it has
to go out to the market every day, and by
natural gas, those are very speculative markets. Those markets go
up and down with the nimes. You know, the costs
(02:15):
are high and variable costs for those power plants, for
SAT natural gas power plants, which are the bulk of
what powers are grid here in Ohio. But those SMRs,
they're fuel immune. You know, they only have to really
buy fuel once you know that refueling is you know, seldom,
and they most of their costs only about ten percent
(02:37):
of their costs are fuel, so most of their costs
are the upfront build costs. So these data centers that
are using and planning for SMRs which are going to
be coming online here I think as early as twenty
thirty for some of these data centers like Meta, some
of these SMRs, you know, they're they're playing the long game.
They're looking towards you know, they're they're spending money now
(02:57):
on these SMRs for the purpose of of having stable,
locked in predictable prices going forward into the future.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
And so that's then allows these data centers sort of
to be sort of self powered and self sustaining, right,
I mean, they're going to be off the traditional the
grid as it were, or you know, AEP so you know,
I'm on the grid and you know, I see my
electric bell going up. So if these data centers are
being powered by the SMRs, these small nuclear reactors, they'll
(03:28):
be off.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
The grid, that's right. So some of these also have
co location with battery storage, so they can also provide
favorable benefits to the grid in terms of what we
call grid services and reactive demands, so you know, they
can they can essentially discharge that battery onto the grid
to provide vultage regulation and other services that we need
for the grid as well. So that's exactly right. Some
(03:51):
of these services are behind the meter, and some of
them are structured through power purchase agreements like the Terror
Power deal that Meta just signed, for example, for two
point eight gigawatts of nature and reactor power. So some
of these are are you know, traditional hooked up to
the grid, and some of them are behind the meter
on site generation.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
So explain that a little bit for me, and you know,
my my b mind is great point average. Are you
saying that they could produce more energy than they need
and put it back to and kind of resell it,
put it back to the.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Grid for absolutely, Yeah, they're hooked up to the grid,
and that's exactly right. I think let's take a step back,
though and talk about the scale of these so people
get a sense of this. Okay, Yeah, so you know
that Prometheus facility that META is about to open in
New Albany, You know that that's a gigawatt cluster, and
I think people just need to take a step back
(04:47):
and think about how how much juice we're talking about. Okay,
that's the same amount of electricity. That power is about
seven hundred and fifty to a million homes. Wow. You
know in Ohio we have, give or take twelve million people,
about five million homes, so we're talking about fifteen to
twenty percent of all the homes in the entire states.
(05:07):
That's how much juice this one data center is going
to take. Okay, so that's a lot of electricity. So
you know, some behind the meter power is not going
to be enough. That's why they're going out and they're
doing these long power purchase agreements with some of the
bigger nuclear facilities as well. This is why Constellation has
a deal with Microsoft for the three Mile Island facility.
(05:30):
They have to do in all the above approach because
there is a lot of power demand associated with these
data centers.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Speaking with sorry, go ahead, Oh no, go ahead. Now,
I was going to just reset you a little bit,
doctor Noah Dormandy from OSU, expert in energy economics and policy,
talking about the nuclear reactors, these SMRs, the small modular
reactors coming into New Albany to power some of these
data centers. So I was just going to ask though,
so based on how much juice that these SMRs can generate.
(05:59):
You see a future, Noah, where we install these in
cities just to power households. If if you know, one
of these can power a million households, you put you
put a couple into a big city, and you're off
the traditional grid as it were.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Oh, let me clarify. I'm talking about the consumption of
power about a million households. So that's the that's the
amount of juice that the data center, the Prometheus data
Center needs to operate. The SMRs are vary in scale
and size in terms of their capacity. So the recent
(06:35):
SMR terror power deal, like I mentioned the Natrium reactor design,
that's eight Natrium reactors for you know, essentially each will
produce about three hundred and fifty megawatts of electricity, or
in total about two point eight gigawats of electricity. So
that's you know, that's a lot of electricity that'll that'll
(06:57):
cover more than the Prometheus Center. But each of those
reactors is about three hundred to you know, at most
five hundred megawatts of electricity. A megawat is enough power
to power a thousand homes, give or take.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Okay, all right, I appreciate the clarity there, and I know,
you know, nuclear safety is not necessarily your wheelhouse. But again,
as I said in the open, these are incredibly clean
and incredibly efficient operations, and you know, people have I
think there are people who are concerned about an SMR
or some sort of nuclear facility going in their neighborhood.
(07:32):
But there really is a lot of safety precautions that
go into.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
These, that's for sure. And you know, if you think
about the safety concerns of a of a of an SMR,
they're much easier to contain in terms of you know,
if there's any sort of breakdown at the plant than
in a larger scale nuclear facility. They're you know, they're
much smaller, so in terms of safety, it just makes
(07:59):
a lot more sense, you know, as I understand it. Again,
I'm an economist, so I want to be clear that
I'm not the expert, but from from everything that I've read,
they're they're much because of their scale, much more uh
safe safety concerned.
I want to spend some time talking about powering some
of these data centers in central Ohio. I don't know,
I'm kind of a geek on when it comes to
this stuff. That's fascinating. You've got all of these these
chip manufacturers, these AI data centers in central I don't
even know how many. I've lost track. I think we've
got well over one hundred in Ohio. And they all
(00:22):
need power. They all need electricity or some way to operate,
and they are power hogs. And I see a situation
where a Meta, which is the parent company of Facebook
and Instagram, has reached a deal for nuclear power in
New Albany. And let's go to our expert. It's doctor
Noah Dormandy, expert in energy economics and policy at the
(00:43):
Ohio State University. Doctor Dormidy, good morning, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Good morning? Very well? Thank you good.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I appreciate you jumping on and maybe answering some questions
and giving us some clarity. You know, people hear about
nuclear power, Noah, and you know they kind of start
to grip up a little bit because they think about
three Mile Island, or they think about Chernobyl and the
nuclear waste. And you know what does it mean for
you know, the environment and people in the area. In reality,
(01:11):
we've come a long way since then, haven't we.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
We sure have.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So when it comes to you know, producing nuclear power
on these for these AI data centers, you know you
hear about s m rs, these small modular reactors. What
can you explain what those are?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Small modular reactors. You think about the nuclear reactors that
are around SAT naval vessels. These are much smaller, much
more cost effective, much more efficient in terms of scale
facilities than the larger, you know, larger nuclear powerhouses that
(01:52):
we see up on Lake Erie for example. So they
are what we call fuel immune. You think about a
traditional power plant, like a natural gas plant, it has
to go out to the market every day, and by
natural gas, those are very speculative markets. Those markets go
up and down with the nimes. You know, the costs
(02:15):
are high and variable costs for those power plants, for
SAT natural gas power plants, which are the bulk of
what powers are grid here in Ohio. But those SMRs,
they're fuel immune. You know, they only have to really
buy fuel once you know that refueling is you know, seldom,
and they most of their costs only about ten percent
(02:37):
of their costs are fuel, so most of their costs
are the upfront build costs. So these data centers that
are using and planning for SMRs which are going to
be coming online here I think as early as twenty
thirty for some of these data centers like Meta, some
of these SMRs, you know, they're they're playing the long game.
They're looking towards you know, they're they're spending money now
(02:57):
on these SMRs for the purpose of of having stable,
locked in predictable prices going forward into the future.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
And so that's then allows these data centers sort of
to be sort of self powered and self sustaining, right,
I mean, they're going to be off the traditional the
grid as it were, or you know, AEP so you know,
I'm on the grid and you know, I see my
electric bell going up. So if these data centers are
being powered by the SMRs, these small nuclear reactors, they'll
(03:28):
be off.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
The grid, that's right. So some of these also have
co location with battery storage, so they can also provide
favorable benefits to the grid in terms of what we
call grid services and reactive demands, so you know, they
can they can essentially discharge that battery onto the grid
to provide vultage regulation and other services that we need
for the grid as well. So that's exactly right. Some
(03:51):
of these services are behind the meter, and some of
them are structured through power purchase agreements like the Terror
Power deal that Meta just signed, for example, for two
point eight gigawatts of nature and reactor power. So some
of these are are you know, traditional hooked up to
the grid, and some of them are behind the meter
on site generation.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
So explain that a little bit for me, and you know,
my my b mind is great point average. Are you
saying that they could produce more energy than they need
and put it back to and kind of resell it,
put it back to the.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Grid for absolutely, Yeah, they're hooked up to the grid,
and that's exactly right. I think let's take a step back,
though and talk about the scale of these so people
get a sense of this. Okay, Yeah, so you know
that Prometheus facility that META is about to open in
New Albany, You know that that's a gigawatt cluster, and
I think people just need to take a step back
(04:47):
and think about how how much juice we're talking about. Okay,
that's the same amount of electricity. That power is about
seven hundred and fifty to a million homes. Wow. You
know in Ohio we have, give or take twelve million people,
about five million homes, so we're talking about fifteen to
twenty percent of all the homes in the entire states.
(05:07):
That's how much juice this one data center is going
to take. Okay, so that's a lot of electricity. So
you know, some behind the meter power is not going
to be enough. That's why they're going out and they're
doing these long power purchase agreements with some of the
bigger nuclear facilities as well. This is why Constellation has
a deal with Microsoft for the three Mile Island facility.
(05:30):
They have to do in all the above approach because
there is a lot of power demand associated with these
data centers.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Speaking with sorry, go ahead, Oh no, go ahead. Now,
I was going to just reset you a little bit,
doctor Noah Dormandy from OSU, expert in energy economics and policy,
talking about the nuclear reactors, these SMRs, the small modular
reactors coming into New Albany to power some of these
data centers. So I was just going to ask though,
so based on how much juice that these SMRs can generate.
(05:59):
You see a future, Noah, where we install these in
cities just to power households. If if you know, one
of these can power a million households, you put you
put a couple into a big city, and you're off
the traditional grid as it were.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Oh, let me clarify. I'm talking about the consumption of
power about a million households. So that's the that's the
amount of juice that the data center, the Prometheus data
Center needs to operate. The SMRs are vary in scale
and size in terms of their capacity. So the recent
(06:35):
SMR terror power deal, like I mentioned the Natrium reactor design,
that's eight Natrium reactors for you know, essentially each will
produce about three hundred and fifty megawatts of electricity, or
in total about two point eight gigawats of electricity. So
that's you know, that's a lot of electricity that'll that'll
(06:57):
cover more than the Prometheus Center. But each of those
reactors is about three hundred to you know, at most
five hundred megawatts of electricity. A megawat is enough power
to power a thousand homes, give or take.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Okay, all right, I appreciate the clarity there, and I know,
you know, nuclear safety is not necessarily your wheelhouse. But again,
as I said in the open, these are incredibly clean
and incredibly efficient operations, and you know, people have I
think there are people who are concerned about an SMR
or some sort of nuclear facility going in their neighborhood.
(07:32):
But there really is a lot of safety precautions that
go into.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
These, that's for sure. And you know, if you think
about the safety concerns of a of a of an SMR,
they're much easier to contain in terms of you know,
if there's any sort of breakdown at the plant than
in a larger scale nuclear facility. They're you know, they're
much smaller, so in terms of safety, it just makes
(07:59):
a lot more sense, you know, as I understand it. Again,
I'm an economist, so I want to be clear that
I'm not the expert, but from from everything that I've read,
they're they're much because of their scale, much more uh
safe safety concerned.
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