#608 - Flatland Cavalry Lead Singer Cleto Cordero on Overcoming Stage Fright and Forming the Band

Lead singer of Flatland Cavalry, Cleto Cordero joins Bobby to share the stories behind the band’s rise, from how they first came together to finding their sound and building a loyal fanbase. Cleto also opens up about overcoming stage fright, the surreal moment of smoking a joint with one of his heroes, and what he’s learned along the way as the band continues to grow. He also reflects on the moments that shaped him as a songwriter and why staying true to the band’s roots still matters.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Strange twist of fate. He's opened up for us. When
we played Red Rocks, he brought out a joint on stage.
Was the first time my parents have seen me do
illicit activities in public.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hey, everybody on this episode of the Bobbycast. It's Cledo
Cordero from Flatland Cavalry. These guys went from grinding it
out in the van to building a cult like fan
base and now racking up over a billion streams and
landing songs and shows like Yellowstone Like all my friends
love them. They're such a cool band. They've got a
new album called Work of Heart. It's their fit studio album.

(00:41):
They're all over the place, love the band, love the
lead singer. That's what we're going to talk to. H
Caitlin Butz is his wife. She's been a guest on
a previous Bobbycast. A big fan of her. So here
we go. My conversation with Cledo Cordero of Flatland Cavalry. Clato,
good to see you, man, you too good to be here.
So your name, so I got to start there because

(01:03):
I it's Kleto. But if people call you Clido, yeah,
if they haven't.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Heard it, Yeah, first time in kindergarten. Is when I
heard that, and I didn't even know that was who
they were talking about was me, but it was pronounced
glethel my whole life growing up until I entered the world.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
So what are you named after somebody?

Speaker 1 (01:21):
My grandfather Gletel Martinez. He was a farmer and I
never got to meet him. He passed before I was born.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
So mom's dad or dad's dad. My mom's dad, so
it's just pretty close to him very much. We named
our baby after we just had a baby, and uh thanks.
We named her after her grandpa. So that's my wife's dad. Yeah, yeah,
that's what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Did that picked it up beforehand?

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Or is a girl?

Speaker 1 (01:47):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, so my wife's dad, his name is Betsy. No,
I'm kidding. So my wife's dad, which is the baby's
grandpa's name is Billy. And we were thinking about names.
I really fought for Bobby with an eye, if I'm
being honest. I was fighting for it hard, and my
wife's like, we're not naming our daughter after you. And

(02:10):
then there was also the you don't want a kid
this is her. You don't want a kid to be
named after you because then there's always gonna be the
pressure of being your kid. But I have a fake name,
like Bobby's my real name, but Bones is not my
real last name. So no noboy's going to know that.
And so I said, Okay, if we can't do Bobby,
let's do Billy, after your dad, but with an I E.
And she was like, that's it. Nailed it. And so
our baby's named after her grandfather. I'm actually named after

(02:32):
my grandpa. Okay, Bob I didn't get I met him
very briefly. But we're all Grandpa named here.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
That's very synchroneous, i'd say, ah, a good word. Yeah,
I felt like the right one.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Do you read? I do?

Speaker 1 (02:45):
I do? But yeah, I'm always looking for something to read.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
That's what somebody says that reads. I never met a
single person that uses the word synchronious that doesn't read books.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Once I learned the word synchronicity, it's like, oh, that's
what's going on in my life. Like, okay, there's a
word for it.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
What kind of books you like to read?

Speaker 1 (03:00):
I really I like like metaphysical stuff. I stumbled into
a book called The Game of Life and How to
Play It on the weekend that I married Caitlin. It
was in the groom suite, and it was just like
wisdom and stuff like that, and like your thoughts influence
your actions and your words and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
And so you were in a room and there was
just books laying in there and you found it.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
And I was writing her a letter that would be
given to her later, and there was a book right
in front of me, and it said The Wisdom of
Florence s. Kulbulshin was a woman from the nineteen twenties,
and I had never heard of metaphysics. I was picked
it up and started reading it. It was really wise,
and I had a bunch of quotes in there that
were very helpful, such as like leap in the net
will appear like things that I've lived in my life

(03:43):
before that you know, in this endeavor that we're on
that's journeying through time and space and you don't really
know the end from the beginning or or what's going
to happen or so yeah, I found it very useful.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
I've read a decent amount on quantum physics, yeah, never
on metaphysics. So that's just that's massive ideas then, right
am I Right.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Meta is the mind physics is like, yeah, the physics
of the mind perhaps, and all that quantum stuff they're
they're it's all connected.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, I'll send you that book though. Yeah, it's fascinating.
I would love to read it. I like to read.
I I also like to be on TikTok, and those
two fight against each other. Yeah, I can see that
because it's you're you got to be in two different
places because I do love to read. However, I also
if I start the night on TikTok, I'm never going
to the book.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, those two things are. It's like trying to do
your taxes at the bar or something that just seems
like good luck. And sometimes the bar is just right
there in your in your bedroom fridge or whatever's got
going on there. So uh yeah, you gotta I think
you gotta put put two and two.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
Did you ever read fiction?

Speaker 1 (04:54):
I do. I love John Steinbeck, I love Ernest Hemingway.
One of my favorite songwriters grown up was Evan Felker
from The Troubadors, and befriended him and he I texted
him asking him where should I start, and he said, Hemmingway,
old man in the sea. It was like, you know
that thick and so it's fascinating how simple it was.

(05:15):
Steinbeck as well, the way he describes like characters but
all like it's like the narrative, the narrator's voice describing
what's going on in the world at large. I found
myself like writing some fiction during COVID, and it was
kind of in that voice, in that tone, real simple,
like I love one syllable words, just stringing them along.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
Until I talk one syllable word, stringing them along. Yeah
that's my man, Yeah, I understand you. I I enjoyed reading,
and I was reading all nonfiction and I just took
myself way too serious, and I thought, why don't want
to read fiction? Like fiction, I can watch a movie.
I don't like fiction until I started reading fiction. It's

(05:57):
like it's like candy to me. Whenever it comes to
what I'm consuming, I really enjoy I think my warm
up into fiction it's different than you. You're Steinbeck. You're
always Hunger Games, which is different than where you got in.
But I read the Hunger Games way back in the
day because again I was all in. I love biographies,
I love like thought books, right, but I read Hunger

(06:22):
Games and I was like, man, this one for a
twelve year old girl and it's perfect for me. So
that got me in. And like, I just read Project
Hill Mary before the movie came out. Any chance or
read that? No, yeah, you're probably reading like warn Piece
or something. Huh No, but I'll check it out. No,
I don't want to rush it to it. But it's
it's like I love fictional books now at this point,
but I'll do a thing where I have to do

(06:44):
two nonfiction before I can read one fiction. Okay, it's
kind of like dessert.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, well, what's your nonfiction style? Like what are you
checking out there?

Speaker 2 (06:52):
My favorite book ever is Steve Martin, and I have
one of his records back here Born Standing Up, and
it's like his life story because everything he did this
this is a bit like how your your band's journey too.
The way he got to where he is was very unconventional.
The way I got to where I am is wildly unconventional.
How you guys got to where you are, especially where
we're sitting right now in Nashville in a big fancy

(07:14):
studio on Netflix. That's really not where I think people
pictured flat Land Calvary to b Whenever you guys started,
would you agree with that.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
I would because I don't. I do watch Netflix occasionally,
my wife almost every night. But yeah, it was kind
of ironic that here I am, here I am, I'm
in your bedroom.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
What's up? So that book is my like, I love
biographies of people that I admire and people who did
it I won't say difficultly, which is I don't know
if that's a word, but people whose rise was very unconventional.
So I like those. I've written a couple books, and
I feel like that's kind of what I like. Pragmatic
approaches to things. Like when I wrote my second book,

(07:54):
which is called fail until You Don't, and I'd had
success writing a biography and the book did pretty good.
It was number one for four week, so minor flex
and so I never want to write another book because
I thought I'm gonna be a one hit wonder and
I'm happy with that, like lou Bega Mambo number five chumbawamba.
Me with the book. Sure I was good. And so
I did a Ted talk and I liked the Ted

(08:16):
talk and it was called Winning by Losing. And this
is like two three years after my first book, and
I thought I can write this, and so I wrote it,
but I wanted it to be a super pragmatic approach
to life, meaning there were no this is for sure
how you win this, no grandiose ideas that sound populous
because that happens a lot. Yeah, And so I wrote

(08:37):
this really practical book about just showing up over and
over again on time, sure, with a good attitude, making
sure the people that make decisions know they can trust you.
And booked pretty good. But I feel like that's kind
of you guys's approach. Sure, Like you guys have toured relentlessly, right, yes,
when you guys started as a group, when you was

(08:59):
that the idea was it to build in Texas and
then spread out or was it not? Even were you
not worried about building? Was like, let's just see if.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
This works, the honest like adventure wonderlust of going on
a road trip. When I was a kid, we had
maybe two family vacations that were like way out of bounds,
like going to South Padre Island or something, or Galveston
where you're taking a twelve hour journey looking out the window,

(09:25):
Oh there's hills here, there's trees, Like what's going on
in the ocean? You know, feeling all these, it's visceral,
and because we only did that so much growing up,
when I had this opportunity to go see the whole country,
like it did. Start with their backyard. It was Lubbock.
Then we'd ventured down to Big Spring, Amarillo, Midland, and
the spiral got bigger and Fort Worth, Austin, and next

(09:48):
thing you know, we're playing in Missouri. I was so
excited to play Missouri. The first time we were in
a van, was so stoked to just see what that
even looks like. And next thing you know, we're on
the West coast playing Seattle and kids are singing missing you,
back to you, and the whole thing felt like it
was you're turning the page one at a time, and
each day is a new thing. It's so exciting. And
because you're building, it's there's always work to be done,

(10:10):
there's always something to hope in, there's something look forward to.
And I found too, like when you do reach milestones
that are like I don't even know what exactly, but
by the time you get to them, you've been tempered
by the road and matured enough to be able to
appreciate it. And it wasn't this extravagant thing like you

(10:32):
just explained, like balloons and confetti pop out and stuff.
It's really a lot more chill. But yeah, that I
haven't gotten tired of that feeling as much as we've
traveled around and I've seen all different kinds of people,
all different backgrounds, they look differently, but all I know
is they're singing these lyrics back with a lot of
spirit and passion. And I've seen the good side of

(10:54):
all the whole country.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Where'd you grow up?

Speaker 1 (10:57):
Midland, Texas?

Speaker 2 (11:00):
The show Landman, land Man, That's what I think of
when I think of that part of the country. Yeah,
because I've toured doing stand up all over and I've
been to Lubbock and Amarillo, and I love that area
and we have a really strong base over there. I
like the people there. But now I think a Landman. Yeah,
if you watch that show at all I have, is
it accurate or no, it's.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
It's a bit of an exaggeration, a little more. They
puffed a little more hot air into the characters. But yeah,
people are they can be that way out there.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Are there really rich oil people out there and you
know them when you see them?

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yes, Yeah, there's for sure.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah, helicopters.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
I've someone's flung me to play a Christmas party and
they're bright in their private jet. So yeah, there's those
kind of things, for sure. There's awesome on the other
side of town. I grew up on the other side
of the tracks, but that's all right. We got to
play for all kinds. So you grew up in Midland.
I know the area is Midland, Dash Odessa.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah and so, but those two towns aren't exactly right
beside each other.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
They're fifteen miles apart. And there's a saying that you
raise a family in Midland, you raise hell in Odessa.
Sorry Odessin's but you know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
And I think Odessa Permian when I think of like
great high school football. I'm not crazy, right.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
No, Yeah, that's a that is like like if you
book a show on a Friday night when people are
there to really watch their kids grow up, and they
only get so many Friday nights to play football, like,
your show might not do that great because people were
at the game. That's a real thing.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
So Friday nights, possibly in that part of Texas, you're
not going to get as much of a crowd because
of high school football.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
I would say, so, yes, wow, yeah, that's going to happen.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Why'd you go to Texas Tech?

Speaker 1 (12:43):
I applied to other schools and ut that was another
one I heard it. It was a live music capital of
the world of Texas and beyond. And so my older
brother was a had similar aspissions as me, as pursuing
a different path. He wanted to be a chef. He
went to a culinary school down there. I feel like
I know someone down there. It's beautiful, the land of

(13:05):
milk and honey. But uh, it felt like I'd be
a small fish in a huge pond of ocean. And
I heard about this place called Lubbock, just an hour
north relatively, you know, start doing my homework or I
remember sitting. I don't know where I was, but the
Middland Reporter Telegram in the paper came to me and said,
William Clott Green playing at Rock and Rodeo Midland. And

(13:26):
I look up William Clott Green. Then start realizing this
place called the Blue Light Live has put He's came
out of there, Josh Abbott Band, Wade Bowen, Pat Green,
Corey Morrow. You start going back. There's Buddy Holly. I
was like what is going on in this place? So
it made more sense for me to go up to
Lubbock than to just get lost out there in all
the noise of sixth Street and such.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Were you playing music in high school?

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yes, our drummer and I have been jamming since like
sophomore year of high school. We had We played an
event called Rebel Palooza at the it's like where the
homecoming like parade would end there in the parking lot
and meet him and I and my buddy Alex. We
were Jack Trio, Jason Alex Cleto Trio played six songs

(14:10):
for appears and like rocked out and so we got
a taste of it. But before then I wrote a song.
It was the first one I ever wrote. I was seventeen,
I had got a guitar and I was fourteen, so
I'd just been playing other people's songs. But I was
approached because I was the kid with a guitar at school.
And one of my friends comes up to me and says,
we'd like to book you to play this event where

(14:31):
they announced all the superlatives mister athletic, which wasn't me
or any of these other things. And so I remember stupidly,
I get two songs. I said, can I write a
song for the event. She's like sure, and have you
ever written one? I'm like no, So I remember I
used to clean pools with my friend Roy Johnson, who's

(14:52):
now our day to day manager. We go back real deep.
But I said, nn, I can't go clean pools with
you today. I gotta go finish this song. Ambers asking
about it. And this is a Friday. The events on
a Sunday. I go home and I realized all the
things that are needed to make a song. I figured
out in that moment, you need space, you need a
quiet place. I sat there in the living room, my guitar,

(15:13):
my little notepad and finished this lyric that I started
in English class. When I'm old, when I'm gray, we
still love me like you do today now that we're young,
having so much fun. Don't give a damn about anything
or anyone life. Will you slow down? That was the chorus,
And I played that for my peers and their moms
and dads and grandpa's at that event, and afterwards in

(15:33):
the cafeteria while we're eating sugar cookies and fruit punch,
their grandma's are coming up to me Oh my goodness,
you brought me back to being seventeen again. And so
that was kind of how it started for me as
playing music and writing songs was. It was an accident
that I stumbled into that seemed to garner an empathetic
reaction that I felt like felt meaningful and purposeful. So

(15:56):
I just kept trying my hand at it.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
If I were to I asked you at twelve, would
you have said you wanted to be a musician.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Or I didn't know what I wanted to be? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (16:06):
When did you? When did that click that not only
did you like writing music, but you wanted to do
that for your life?

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Truthfully, I saw my first concert. I was seventeen years old.
My friend Roy again bought me a ticket. He said, hey,
you want to come to see Randy Rodgers band this
weekend at Graham Central Station, Odessa. And I'm, oh, man,
I'm trying to make up excuses. I don't know. I
didn't want to have to ask my parents and then
then them shoot me down, So I made up a
bunch of excuses. He goes, well, already bought your ticket,

(16:34):
and my folks, I had heard of Roy and he
was a good kid. Then you weren't going to get
into trouble, So let me go to the concert. I
go and I don't remember what song it was, but
it was like it was a whole new world by
a Pokemon. It's just like I'm enamored. I'm in this concert.
Everyone's vibing out, singing, dancing, spending each other around, and
then at some point one of the songs just strikes

(16:56):
me in the soul and I feel like I'm like
like awakened. I'm just like, that's exactly what I want
to do, Like I just figured it out. And so
every day after that, I just work towards that, like
trying to write songs. Though I didn't know what I
was doing, but I just knew that that's what I
feel like it was a calling or whatever have you.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
I feel like you were jumping and you let the
net appear thereafter for sure. Yeah, yeah, because again you
didn't know what you were doing. Nope, I think there's
a real beauty and being naive. I was the same.
I'm a small town in Arkansas, Like, there's no way
that I should be doing what I'm doing and the
different things that I do based on where I come from.

(17:35):
But I was just like, I had this is what
I want to do. Let me just go attack it
because I didn't know what you needed. I didn't know
how hard it was going to be, or how crazy
it was going to be, or that sacrifices I'd make,
or the things I would gain, Like, I didn't know
any of that. It was just like I was touched,
and so I pursued it, like I jumped and the
net appeared. It's one of my favorite books. It's about metaphysics.
I'll recommend it to you.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
I will swap you care about the same things.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah, Uh, did you ever tell Randy that story?

Speaker 1 (17:59):
I did, got to write with him perform. He's strange
twists of fate. He's opened up for us. When we
played Red Rocks, he brought out a joint on stage.
Was the first time my parents have seen me do
illicit activities in public.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
Did you think about that while it was happening? Yeah,
I was like, my mom's here, Randy.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
But you know, it's like what I was told a
story many years ago at a festival in Steamboat Springs
called Music Fest that like there was you know, there's
circles going around, it's legal. There some guy. When Guy
Clark was still alive, I which I wish I could
have met him, but you know, he was smoking the
dudes out there and they passed it around. He said,
I've never smoked me in my life. And when Guy
Clark kan's you a joint, You're like, okay, I guess

(18:40):
we're doing this today, and it was I was in
that situation, so it was it was fun and awesome,
and after the show, I was like, Mom, I just
you know, She's like, you're a grown ass man, like.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
You can paint her bills for like ten years. It's good,
like you're cool just to stay out of trouble.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
But yeah, to answer your question, I've I've got to
write with him and play and make a music video.
And he's a lovely person and super helpful and like me,
telling that story to him is like affirming that he
heeded the call as well.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
You know, what does your mom think about the success
that you guys have.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
She always says, I'm happy that you're doing what you
want to be doing, and like she'll love she loved
me if I wasn't successful in the world. All the same,
they're so supportive that they were my first true supporters,
and they bought me my first PA system the day
I turned eighteen and graduated from high school, so that
I could go play for people. And they're just They

(19:36):
would go when our band would play a place called
lun Star Bar in Midland. They would show up after
soundcheck with enchiladas and rice and beans and feed us
and just and then host us afterwards, let us stay there,
and we can't afford a hotel. So they're beautiful people.
And imagine they're proud, but they're happy that we're happy.
Simply would you.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Say that your mom and dad correct still together.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
Still together forty four years in August.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
That's really cool. That's a really cool model to have
as well.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
I feel thankful and blessed, Like when I go back
home to stay at their place, like it's like a
time capsule and you're at risk of being mushy. I
just I mean, it'll move me to tears, thinking like, man,
you were really lucky that you had that you got
to grow up this way, and that you had this example.
And uh, yeah, they're awesome people. Now they get to
live vicariously through us. They they're retired now, so they

(20:27):
come see us. They get to see the country and
us at the same time. It's great.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Is your room still the same pretty much?

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, there's a guitar tree with all these old shitty
guitars on it. Not fancy, but still out of tune,
you know.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
But what did you have on your walls in that
room at Pete Klatto? What was on what was on
the on your walls?

Speaker 1 (20:46):
I had a guitar chords poster, which probably I knew
like five of the chords on there, and the rest
were totally nonsense. I don't know what they meant. I'm
pretty sure I had a poster Jimmy Hendrix at one
point on there maybe some art that I painted in
senior year of high school of the Joker, the Heath
Ledger Joker, Bob Marley as well, and then a bunch

(21:08):
of like DVDs. Crossroads Festival, Eric Clapton two thousand and seven,
Stevie Ray Vaughan live at Austin CD Limits, John Mayer,
Where the Light Is.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
That live album one of my favorite, so great, that's
my favorite artist of all time is John Mayer.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor,
and we're back on the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
When you talk about you being in that environment with
where Randy Rodgers was playing. What triggered in me was
the first song that I ever heard where I thought
that song was speaking for me, which one this song
from John Mayer was stop this Train it And so

(22:01):
that's the first time that I've ever had a songwriter
say something that I didn't know I felt. It's like
a good comedian, you're like, oh my god, I was
thinking the same thing, but like you didn't think it
exactly like you didn't you didn't have the articulation to
express it in the way that they did. But I
remember hearing stop this Train and going, oh my god,

(22:22):
that's how I feel. And I didn't know how to
say that. And he's speaking for me, not to me,
not at me, he's speaking for me. Like that's the
first songwriter that I ever loved. And you know, there's
a lyric in that song it's like, I'm so scared
of getting older. I'm only good at being young. My
whole career, I've always been the youngest to do what
I was doing right forever I was either seventeen or

(22:45):
twenty two doing a national show. But like everything started
to catch up and I remember thinking, oh my god, like,
am I even good or was I just young? Like
that's that's how I felt, like, am I really good
at what I was doing? Or was I just young?
And people thought I was good because I was doing
it so young? And you know, that song hit me.
So when you talked about that Randy Rogers, just that experience,

(23:07):
that's what triggered to me. But that's like a songwriter
that writes for me. Now he's a little older than me,
so you know, I was able to kind of chase
his lyrics and his understanding and it fell into me,
who writes songs that you feel the same way about?

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Ironically at him. He was one of those ones that
was out of the country realm that my grandmother passed
away around the time the Continuum album happened, and my
sister lived right across the hallway from me. She'd play
a CD every night. It was that one, and I
remember like listening to Heart of Life and stuff that
was just like lyrics, it was something that it was another.

(23:46):
It wasn't the radio, which you know, it has a
certain if it's tune to a country station, it's only
going to play this. But she played that when He
was one of them for me that I just like
every word that he sang and expressed about was I
could relate to as well. Willie Nelson's another one. I
feel like a really as I started to learn songwriting,
you could read his lyrics and they're so simple, and

(24:07):
the rhymes are so simple, but yet how he delivers
them and they're still profound and emotional. I like is
Bill's work too, Like when Southeast? That Southeastern record and
the one thereafter was a it's not if it takes
a lifetime, it's something more than free, just stuff that

(24:28):
you're like, Wow, how did he like? He said, he
expressed something that we felt, But I don't know how
many lifetimes I'd have to live to be able to
string it out that way. Those are something that come
to mind.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Did you feel the need to listen to a lot
of Texas music or were you just in the middle
of a lot of Texas music so that's what you
listened to.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
I was exposed to it, for sure. They had a
two hour block every Saturday that was like Texas country.
Guys like Kevin Fowler, Pat Green, Randy Rod, Joshabbit Band,
Stony LaRue, and the Red dirt scene, Jason Bullen and
the Stragglers turned Pike Troubadoors. So it was definitely in

(25:10):
my orbit once I started, But before that it was
just whatever country stations my mom kept the radio on,
and Brooks and dun George Stray, Alan Jackson, just all
that era of country two thousands, nineties. But yeah, the
whole when I saw Randy playing in my backyard, essentially
I realized that, okay, you can write your own songs

(25:32):
and tour and sing them and play different people. So
if he's doing, and I started going catching all these
Texas red dirt dudes doing their thing, and just gave
me more hope and faith that we could do it too, hopefully,
you know, if we got to write songs. So it
spurred all these other things that I had to buckle
down and learn singing. Goodness, gracious, people compliment my voice now,

(25:54):
But it took this whole time since I met you
to figure out what I'm doing, and even then, I
still know there's a lot more to learn. But yeah,
being graceful to yourself along the way and not quitting
because am I good enough? You know? Or am I
just young? Like you're saying people gave me a slack
for but yeah, I'm just trying to learn and still

(26:15):
learn from those guys. When I hang out with Randy,
I'm not I understand that we're peers, but I also
hold reverence to those that came before us, and I
feel like we can learn from each other because I
before I was a songwriter or a singer, a guitar player,
and I think about things. I was a son and
then I was a brother, a little brother first, so
I still know how to be a little brother and

(26:37):
learn from people. At least I want to stay that
way to some degree.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
I wasn't exposed to Texas Country growing up in Arkansas.
But when I moved to Texas because I lived there
for twelve years, I've did in Austin. I was dunked
in because you get to Austin, it's Kevin Fowler, Pat Green,
It's every night of the week. Yeah, And the most
passionate musical people I've ever in my life are people
that live in Texas when it comes to Texas artists,

(27:04):
and so I got to know that world really well.
Now I'm gonna ask you a question, and then based
on your answer, I'm gonna tell you a story. But
what's the difference? And I know the answer, I think,
but you being a Texas artist, what's the difference in
Texas and Red Dirt?

Speaker 1 (27:24):
The name that you prescribe to it, and geographically where
you're from, like the Red Rivers, the line that separates
the two. Yeah, they're they're just homegrown. It's homegrown, homespun music.
And you write about the characters and the people that
you're around. There's different dialects where you go. Oaki's are different.
Texans are a little different. They got their own, you know,

(27:46):
way of boasting and their own sayings that are kind
of quirky and stuff like that. So I just think, yeah,
it's pretty much you're writing whatever your spawn in, you know,
whatever seed in the soil you're from, you're gonna sprout
and be like those flowers that are from there or
whatever have you.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
Can you be Texas Country and Red Dirt at the
same time, That's my first question? Yes or no?

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Cannot Can you be Texas?

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Can you be considered both Texas Country and Red Dirt?

Speaker 1 (28:22):
Like as an artist? Yes?

Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yes, because I would I would say yes that I
have friends that are Texas Country. They're also Red dirt,
But I have friends that are red dirt Oklahoma that
aren't Texas country.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Yeah, sure that well, And I grew up with the
phrase Texas country, like now I just call it Texas music.
There's so many different guys that have come into the scene,
like co Etzel's and parkham Columns, Like some of it's
rocky or some of it's grungy. But if you go
back to like guys like Willie that were here in
Nashville and they went back to Texas to just be
what they are, sound like what they want to sound like.

(28:56):
I think it has that is still the same, like
DNA that's within all of it. It is this like
express yourself how you see fit. And Texas has a
lot of history with fiddles and all that kind of stuff,
so like it does have a sound. But yeah, there
definitely was an era of like singing about Texas and
if you're not from there, you're probably not gonna write

(29:17):
a song about Texas. But I stand corrected myself because
Jason Bowen and the Stragglers has one called somewhere down
in Texas.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
But yeah, my watch from Oklahoma, massive Turnpike fan. Now
you called them Troubadour, so that may be the real
thing to call them, but she calls them Turnpike. Yeah,
and they're from a town that she lived right next to,
and so she brought them into my life because she
would listen to them NonStop, and from there obviously cross

(29:44):
Canadian ragweed. Oklahoma guys. Yep, you mentioned Evan Felker earlier,
and I was lucky enough they came and played a
charity show with me because and especially for my wife,
it was the coolest thing ever, because I think she
thought I was cool because they came and played a
show with me at the Ryman, So that was awesome.
And I asked the question about red Dirt in Texas Country,
because if you're from Oklahoma and you're making red dirt,

(30:04):
can you be considered a Texas artist?

Speaker 1 (30:06):
See that's where I think it gets, like you're putting
the label on something that it's just like, yeah, I mean,
if you're from Oklahoma, we're probably gonna call you red dirt,
you know. And then there's Texas.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah, because anybody I know from Oklahoma hates Texas, but
they really love it, like they have to be like
I hate Texas if they really love it. Know the same.
It's like people from Oklahoma and Arkansas. Yeah, I call
my wife like a hillbilly and she's like, dude, we
grew up forty minutes from each other. Like there's really
no the trailers are the same, there's just a different
line in the middle of the two totally to move
to Nashville. What was behind that thought, Well.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
I I was living during twenty twenty. We Kaitlyn was
living here. And now that's just so who your wife
is real? Your wife is Kaitlyn Buts Kitlin Butts Ye. Yes,
singer songwriter who I met through this whole thing, and
which is why I have faith in like doing what
you love will lead you to people that you love
and a lot of good things. And she was living

(30:57):
in Nashville and like twenty at the top of twenty
twenty and things are trying to shut down, and she
was like, hey, let's go stay at my mom's house
and Ard Moore for a week. So I was living
in Fort Worth. I meet her there. We ended up
staying there for a whole year. And that's a whole
other story. But at the end of this year, circumstances,

(31:18):
you know, presented themselves where we had an opportunity to
be managed by Chris Cappy, who manages Luke Comb's, and
so it was like faced with the whole, like move
to Nashville.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Does that felt dirty a little bit?

Speaker 1 (31:31):
I'll tell you honestly, I was a little fearful, which
fear doesn't do us any good. I've learned it just
gets in the way of stuff. But I was like,
I don't know, Caitlin, like people are going to call
me a trader and this and that, and She's like,
listen to what you're saying. She's like, it'd be like
me opening up for Casey Musgraves and then her manager
going Wow, she was really good. I want to manage

(31:53):
you now, Like, look at what you could be passing
up on if you don't do this. So she really
with her blessing, we we leaped, you know, and the
net did appear. We moved here into East nash And
twenty twenty one in February, so I went from living
with my mother in law too now I'm living in
and Nashville of all places, And that to me was

(32:13):
like the proverbial dream, Like I think of the scene
from the movie The Iron Giant. Have you heard of
that movie, So like, you know, at the very end,
the iron Giant sends up the little beacon again and
all the stuff goes back to go find it. And
I felt like the radio that I listened to on
the window so as a kid like called me to
this place, and now here I am, thirty years later,

(32:35):
getting to work with great creatives and managers and people
that help us, that have helped us take our music
to the whole country. So yeah, I was genuinely concerned
that people would think I was a trader or something.
But some people that I run into here lately, they're like, wait,
you've been in Nashville. They have no idea because we
live all over the place. We live on the road
half the time.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
So when you go to Tech, how quickly do you
start to your people.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
In the beginning? Yeah, pretty soon. Within the first week
we found our first bass player. I moved to Tech
to Lubvick. On a Saturday Sunday, Jason and I go
to an open mic night. No luck there. The very
next you know, Wednesday or something, we find ourselves at
an open mic and Broadway which is right across the street,

(33:24):
little bar called bar PM. Was the only kid that
showed up, and this guy named Ryan de la Garza
just let me keep playing until I ran out of
songs to sing and saw a lot of promise. So
he was our first bass player, got us connected to
the college scene, and then started to add band members
as we came across them at parties or like our

(33:46):
guitar player Read, for example, his older brother was my
We were in a business fraternity together and we're eating
taco Tuesday at Roses Cafe. If you never had it,
God bless you. But he said, man, my little brother
play guitar. And I was like, man, everyone's little brother
plays guitar. And he said, well, he's pretty good. So

(34:07):
I took his advice and Read came over and we jammed,
and Read got added to the group. And so yeah,
it was always it was always within reach. That's something
I've learned too, is like whatever it is you're looking
for is probably within your wheelhouse or someone knows someone that,
but within By the time June twenty fourteen happened, we
had Johnny on bass, Read on guitar, Jason on the drums,

(34:30):
we had another violinist at the time, Laura, and so
we were at five piece we played our Oliver, these
songs I'd collected for the first two years of loving
and love it going to songwriter night.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
In your mind, was the band a way to do
life or was it just something to do while you
were in school?

Speaker 1 (34:53):
It felt no, I feel like going to school was
something to do while I was in Lubbock. I feel
like it was. It's like, once that expiration date approached,
I felt my first panic attack when I was about
to graduate and I was sitting at a coffee table.
I'm like, oh my God, Like, what am I going
to do? Do I have to get an accounting job?

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Like?

Speaker 1 (35:11):
And then I was like something told me pick up
the phone, call Scott Ferris and record a single, and
then it turned into the EP. Then that got picked
up on the local radio station. That turned into a
sold out show. Then that led to a booking agent
and a manager, and so it started to pick up speed.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Within the group. Was it We're going to try to
do this as long as the will stay on the
car pretty much? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
I think everyone was in starting a band in college
and all the fun that that entails was just it
was just fun. You know. Initially I had sites to
like take it and be like Randy, you know, get
a bus and travel around and do it and do
it well. But initially it was just playing frat parties

(35:57):
and cover songs and having fun doing it too. Not
that we don't anymore, it's just it definitely turned into
a lot more.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Was there a recommitment time within everybody in the band,
meaning everybody's done with school, so you have to like
are we going to do this? Like are you going
to do this? Because I'm going to do this. I
feel like that's the time when it's okay, school's over.
Are we committed? Was there ever a period of that?

Speaker 1 (36:18):
There was never any like stern chats of like are
we going to do this? Guys? It was like no
one flew the coop or said man, I'm going to
go be a doctor or do something else. Like there
were challenging times when like I waited for two years
in Lubbock for the guys to graduate, and then people
start graduating. Our drummer moved to Florida and our bass

(36:40):
player moved to Fort Worth, and I was kind of
like I didn't know what we were going to do
or we're going to be located at it because once
again going to college in this garage was like our
hearth and now we passed. We turned the page. But
I was tempted with a lot of dismay. But we
had dates on the calendar. We had a bus call location.
So as long as he made it to bus call
and made it to the game, Like I don't doesn't

(37:02):
matter to me where you live, So you made it through.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Was there ever a weird time where you had to
start hiring for me? It was a business manager because
I never had money growing up, and I said, I'm
going to pay somebody to like do my money. That's crazy. Yeah,
but I had so many percentages I was having to
pay at this point. Yeah, So I was, you know,
I was to pay an agent, pay a manager, and
I was touring a lot and I was having to
pay for buses and pay you know, people that were

(37:26):
with me, like a road manager, and it was just
so overwhelming. But I was blown away that I had
to pay a business man. They were getting a percentage
of my money. Crazy to me. Now it's it's invaluable, right.
Did you have that experience? Well?

Speaker 1 (37:39):
Yeah, I remember having eleven bucks in my bank account
with an accounting degree, building road cases trying to make
my quota of three hundred bucks a month to make rent.
So that was all I had to make and it
was still stressful and like, so all that to say,
I had no money before, and so the bank account
grew from eleven dollars to more anything after that, Like

(38:00):
all the help that business manager and manager brought to
the table was, like you said, invaluable. I don't even
think about it, like it's always been better than that
eleven bucks.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
So man, I thought about it. It's five percent of
everything I made as a business manager. That's great. Correct.
That was crazy, Like I'm going to pay you to
I don't even want you in my money, and I'm
going to pay you to do stuff with it. It's
wild crazy. It was crazy that people even had access
to my money because I had no money. And then
when I had money, I was like I just want
to hold on to it, like I don't want anybody
to have. But then I what's something else that you learn?

(38:30):
And I had to learn the hard ways. When you
play shows in different states, you gotta pay different state taxes. Yeah,
like you end up getting if you have to do
taxes in California because you did shows in California. That's wild.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Can you try calculating all that stuff?

Speaker 2 (38:42):
No, that's why I got a business manager. I und
up in jail like Wesley Snipes like that was the
whole Yeah, it was crazy.

Speaker 4 (38:49):
The Bobby Cast will be right back. This is the
Bobby Cast.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
That was a weird thing for me in this business.
But I even, you know, getting a manager, and my
manager is fifteen percent, and that's pretty standard. But even
paying a manager fifteen percent of your money my money,
that was weird. But then I just I had to
live with it and understand that they're bringing in, let's say,

(39:27):
twenty seven percent. So for me to pay them fifteen percent,
I'm actually still making twelve percent of what I'd be
making anyway. Like I had to have those conversations with myself,
but it was really hard to do that. Sure an
agent ten percent, Oh my god, when it's all done,
I'm paying fifteen for a manager, ten for an agent,
five for a financial I'm thirty percent in.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
We got we all got the same uncle too. Uncle
Sam takes it and Uncle Sam's taking forty.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Crazy. Yeah, So because but again, you have an accounting
background a bit, so I think you were probably you know,
you got to wait in you get to learn the
rules before they were actually affecting you. I know, any
of the rules. Like I was broke as a joke,
didn't know anything, and all of a sudden, the money
I'm making I'm paying out I had. It was an
existential crisis. I'll be honest with you. Yeah, I struggle
with paying people money that ironed.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
It's I mean, it makes sense. One thing that brings
me comfort is knowing that when I am dead and gone.
I mean, sure my family will get whatever is was
allotted to me, but like I can't. I'm not going
to be clinging to those coins or whatever it is.
Now it's all ones and zeros, you know what I'm saying. Like, so,
I don't know. I focus on the work. Is it
bringing me joy? And do I enjoy doing it? Do
I enjoy the people I'm working with? And is it

(40:39):
helping provide provision for many? To me, that gives me
like a sense of duty purposefulness. But yeah, definitely you
don't want to pay overpay for something that's not, you know,
having any value. So there is makes sense.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
That's crazy to me. Sometimes I still can't believe it.
But I've been doing it long enough, and I do
see the value in those jobs. Yeah, but I'd alwas
se Pole on award shows and they would think like
their lawyer or they'd think their agent. I'd be like,
you're not a person of the people. Why are you Now?
I'm like talking to my lawyer and the agent like
thank you everybody, Like I get it now. In the
creative space, you have to have people that are looking
out for you. Because I didn't know how to do everything.

(41:14):
So I'm trusting people to do things for me and
look out for me in ways. Yeah, because I have
no idea sure, Like I took media lawng in college,
but like I can do like elementary contract work.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
Did you ever do the rooms where nobody was there?

Speaker 1 (41:28):
Like playing it for a room? Oh yeah, yeah, our
first that show I described to you June fourth, twenty fourteen.
I built it up in my mind as this like
packed house, gonna go see Flatling Cavalry. The people that
showed up are the same ones that showed up for
you from the beginning of your family. Mine driving from Midlands,
I'm driving from Dallas, and I think we made sixty

(41:49):
three bucks at the door and it was so slin.
It was so thin and empty in there, and I
was a little discouraged, but it was all learning curve
because I remember, you know, fast forward a year. We
had a song on the radio and local station and
that brought in Like we played our CD release party
at the Blue Light. It was sold out, packed house,

(42:12):
and my mom and dad that were in the audience,
I remember making eye contact with them. Kids are screaming
the words and they're looking around like totally enamored and
just shocked, and like that was.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
It looked up.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
But yes, we played the empty rooms and stuff too,
And I wrote with the someone I look up to
a bunch Will Hoague, him and I writing a song
one time, and he said, man, I used to show
up to rooms where like if there weren't enough people there,
I would be in a bad attitude and kind of
be crummy to who was there. And he's like that's
not right, you know, Like I had to have a
chat with myself of like that's not cool. So like

(42:47):
people that are there, give them the best show that
you can, and then it'll turn into if everyone in
there tells someone and they bring someone that's twice as
many people.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Were there periods where maybe the band wasn't moving in
a direction you wanted to positively, and you thought about,
I don't know if this is.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
It definitely like you know, we were kids in college
that were experimenting with the bottle and you know, the
sauce and everything, and kind of we can get sloppy
at times. And I remember sometimes you'd have some sloppy shows.
And granted maybe I was being dramatic or whatever, but
at the time, but our guitar player read reminded me

(43:23):
he goes man. One time you said something that was
He's like one night you had your head against the
window against the glass, and you just look so like
depressed and dismayed, and you were like, you said, guys,
if we're going to play that bad, like we just
need to stay at home. We don't need to be
doing this like you're in It was, but it was
kind of to them, it's like, okay, well let's get
our crap together. So I think you got to go
through those moments to figure out if you that's what

(43:47):
you really want to do.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
Are you the leader?

Speaker 1 (43:51):
I try to lead by example, and I made some
I made the calls in the beginning I wrangled the
cavalrymen so to that degree. But yeah, I don't ever
call myself the leader or anything.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Do you manage the group dynamic if it's not positive? Always?

Speaker 1 (44:09):
I try to initially now just growing to understand people's
if someone's having an off day. It's not my job
to fix anyone's attitude or anything of that nature. I
know in business, you gotta show up with a good attitude,
like you said, and good expectancy. And on a personal note,
I can have personal conversations and see what's going on
in someone's world. But yeah, I just try to lead

(44:30):
by example and show up. And some days, dude, I'm
I'm like so tired from the road and don't sleep
great on the bus that I don't have a lot
to give to people, saving it for the stage really,
And so if I don't have anything to say, I
won't or to like chime in on the front lounge
chats and stuff if I don't have the spirit to

(44:52):
it in a moment. But I try not to be
a bad vibe. I guess the best I can.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
I'm gonna make an assumption here that you're a pretty
introverted guy when you're not performing.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
I do appreciate solitude.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
Yeah, it's a great answer to that. Where does the
extra version come from?

Speaker 1 (45:12):
Well, I grew up in a family. As I was
telling you, I was a little brother and I was
raised Catholic. So there was a portion of my life
where my parents would turn off the TVs for the
lent season, which is how I learned how to play guitar,
and we would play charades and entertain each other and
make each other laugh. There was something about performing and
being big and just being silly. Really. It wasn't to

(45:33):
like look at me, So I think it comes from
that I used to when I started to play for people,
Like when I was eighteen, I would literally just have
to tell I would get so terrified with stage fright.
So it's not like a need to like, hey, look
at me, look at me. It was more like you
wanted to connect with people and maybe a song finds
them well, but I couldn't think about it so much

(45:55):
so that I would just like pretend that I wasn't
going to play a show. Just literally disassociated with having
to think about playing was like nerve wracking. And to
this day, I'm like, I'm confident and so I'm not nervous,
but I drink and substances and all those things never
made me a better performer. So I'm thankfully every learned
that the hard way and not to learn it again.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
What's the most nervous you've been for a show or anxious?

Speaker 1 (46:24):
When we used to play in Nashville back in the day,
like being a band from Texas, like it's such a
town of incredible guitar players, songwriter singers, performers bands that
I would get self conscious, like they would just be like,
it's the people in the back of the room, which's like,
you know what I mean. So Nashville was a little
nervous playing here first time. One that just jumped right

(46:47):
out to me is when we opened up for Luke
Combs in December of nineteen. I remember almost because it
was in a stadium or not stadiums where the Spurs play.
Forgive me I can Rina and San Antonio correct. Yeah, yeah,
sixteen thousand people sold out. We had a forty minute
time slot, and I remember like having another like existential,
like terrifying conversation with myself. I was taking a shower

(47:10):
and I was like, because I had to get away.
It's the only place you can get away from people
as the bathroom. And I remember like thinking, like, Okay, God,
if I was supposed to be selling bibles and you know,
Africa or someplace like, I would be there. But I'm here,
so I guess I'm supposed to be here, you know,
So like just sing through me, speak through me, play
through me. Let me just enjoy this moment that it
is about to happen. And I went out there and

(47:31):
just try to go about it lovingly and it led
to a lot of good things, but I definitely was
terrified to be real. Another one that comes to mind
is the O two Arena with Luke comes again. All
of the production elements were left in Dublin the night
before because apparently it was Saint Patti's weekend and no
one was there at customs when they showed up. So

(47:52):
that's kind of wild. That's a whole another story. You
can fact check that. But they had to pull a
rabbit out of a hat and drums. They had to
make the whole show happen with nothing in London. What's
that You're in London, London at the O two arena
maybe twenty two and flat Land. You know, we're where
the low guys in the total pole, we don't get
a sound check or nothing. I'm about to go walk
down the O two arena, no sound check, no line check,

(48:15):
playing on wedges, and I remember just literally like please, God,
don't let me embarrass myself, like let this, let this
go as good as it can go, and you can't.
There's no time to be scared when you're doing it.
But to play in a cave, a giant cave, when
there's no way to really hear each other was truly
made some cowboys of us, for sure.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
I used to really get upset when technically something would
mess up, and if we were doing like comedy music,
if I wouldn't have yours or i'd freak out because
I would think it was going really it was a
really poor show because something wasn't working. But then I
got through it a few times. Or if I was
doing stand up and I was I didn't feel like
I was killing I would get through it and I

(48:55):
would go, Man, if something bad happens, you still get
through it just fine. And sometimes most time the audience
doesn't even know. And so I think I can handle
adversity technically or within myself because I've done it poorly
in my mind so many times and gotten through it.
Yeah that when it happens now, I've been through it.
I've done the worst and got through it just fine.

(49:16):
Do you ever feel that way with all the shows
that you've done, things have gone completely wrong, and you
know what, it worked out just fine. So when it
goes wrong now, you're like, oh, I've done this before,
it's gonna be fine.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
One hundred and ten percent. Yes. Yeah. In going through
it and walking through those fires, you're like, oh, I survived,
you know, And when you're going through it again, you're like, oh,
this is just a moment of endurance. I've played shows
where you can't hear anything going on in those in
your monitors, and you don't throw a tantrum on stage.
You just you're in embarra it and get through it.

(49:47):
But yeah, like you said, anyone that's in the audience
will be like, it's like people that are watching football
on the couch going, oh man, the quarterback sucks, and
they you know, eating cheetos or whatever. It's like you
can't most people can't do that anyways. And here, so
uh yeah, just get through it, really, yeah, just keep
going keep going.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
That's what I would tell people. Just keep going, regardless
of what you're performing. Just keep going because most people
don't even know what's happening. They don't know that something's wrong.
And if you keep going, they're going to keep going
with you.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
Right.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
It's kind of like life. I mean, that's a bit
of a metaphor for life, Like just keep going, yes,
and if you don't stop, like you can still achieve.
So yeah, you ever have a show where you think, man,
that show sucked, but then people come up to you're like, dude,
that was awesome.

Speaker 4 (50:33):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
And I used to pine for folks of affirmation after
a show like did it go well? Like, because sometimes
you don't know you know, you're trying your best. But
here lately, like we played some markets, I'll leave them
nameless and not here to make enemies or anything. But
you're giving it everything and simply they just don't know
who you are, and maybe they don't care to, or

(50:54):
they don't they don't believe in what you're doing, and
so you'll give it your best. Then after the show,
I'll be thinking, man, I wonder if we had played
that one cover during you know, the part of the
show like we'd played this cover relative to this region
where they might have Our producer goes Bro. That's real
noble and admirable of you. But sometimes you know, they're

(51:16):
just audiences just don't like you, and that's okay, and
I'm just like, I know, but it's our job to
entertain and to love the audience, and so I want
to get my best foot forward or tried as much
as you may too, not for them to like you,
but to do the job that you were hired to do.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
Here's Minneapolis, wasn't it? No, it wasn't. We've got good
luck in not in case, I don't want to say
I like the album artwork on this record, thank you. Yeah.
I like the heart and the call, and obviously it
makes sense it's work of heart is the album. But
I like the album or work.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
It's cool.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Who designed that?

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Scott and Rachel Ferris who did all the album artwork
for a whole discography?

Speaker 2 (51:57):
Did they give you multiple and you picked or how
did that come together?

Speaker 1 (52:01):
That album art went through like twelve rounds and you know,
different adaptation at one point. It's probably gonna make Caitlin
pull her hair out bringing this up. But like I
even like was like, what if there's like robot hands
holding the heart and it's like an allegory between the
digital world, and so we tried that it looks terrible

(52:22):
and stupid and so but yeah, they they had his
moms hold the hands. Eventually I realized that I wanted
to get my hands on it, so I flew to
Lubbock and got my hands on it myself and wanted
it to look particular and but yeah, they designed all
those fabrics by hand. It's cool.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
Yeah, it's really great. And it's so hard to like
get to appreciate album right now because we're not getting
anything hard anymore. So it's not guaranteed to'll ever see it. Yeah,
you know, I've you're just listening back in the day.
You have a CD. Right now, Vinyl is more than
it probably was ever in my life. I think now
vinyl's more popular than it was ever m because before me,

(53:01):
vinyl was actually popular. But yeah, I'm not drawn to
a lot of album artwork I was to you guys.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
That's I'm thankful that you see it that way. Now
that we work it with you know, label and a
lot of people and everyone's sharing their opinions you know,
not everyone was in favor of it. I don't say that,
you know, detriment of my team. Just yeah, just just
learning to trust your gut and your hunch, you know.
And I had the songwriter whom I wrote Work of

(53:28):
Heart with texted me the day that it came out
and she said she had a vision that like like
God gave her a dream, and she was like, this
is totally it's amazing, supernatural if you will, we're talking
about quantum stuff, you know. It's like she had a
dream that there was this heart made of stone and
God was pulling these pins out of it that were
representing pain and suffering and stuff, and then the heart

(53:49):
softened into this like fabric fabric quilt work Hart and
she goes, when I saw your album artwork, it was
the same heart that I saw in my dream. So
totally wild. So I'm glad that I stuck with that
because it was like we could have just balked and
done something different. But yeah, that's one thing that word

(54:09):
jumped out to me. Is different. It's like if someone
else gets their hands on something and does it, they
why not do it just like you doesn't mean it's bad.
It's just different, And so I'm okay with different because
I've written a lot of good songs with people that
oh I wanted to say it just this way, you know,
And it's like, if that's the case, then make it yourself.
But if you're hiring other artists to work alongside, then

(54:32):
I've learned to be okay with different.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
My favorite song is on and on on this record,
thank You. Usually I'm not drawn to tempo ish type songs.
I like really slow sad songs like I want to
be cut. Yeah, when I listen to music, I want
to hurt. Okay, that's all that makes me feel is
music on and on. Not really that oddly, it's it's
definitely that's my favor I just want to say that

(54:54):
because I've been listen to for a while. That's my
favorite song.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
Well, thank you. That one was A wrote that one,
and I thought it was like a piece of bubblegum
to feel simple, chew it a little bit of flavor.
When everyone added their magic to it, it really added
that hop and skip like feel good vibe.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
So yeah, I'm not a feel good guy like hurt me.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
Let's take a quick pause for a message from our
sponsor and we're back on the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
We have artists come in and they bring music that
has meant a lot to them. Yes, it can be
the perfect album. It could be the album that meant
the most of them, and we end up donating this
worthwhile music. What did you bring here? I don't know
what it is because you got it wrapped up, So
if you don't mind grabbing it and wrapping it, yeah,
unwrap it, okay and tell me the story behind it.
Hold it up.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Story behind this album is I stumbled into it, our
old merch guy. He was really a music connoisseur by
the alias side.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
Yeah, that's what I thought it was.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
He told us about willing Man. Okay, you've heard on
the road again, but have you heard his jazz stuff?
And like, I love the album artwork unless I'm yeah,
guy Clark's wife Susanna actually painted this apparently pretty amazing.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
That will and also that starred Us album. For those
that are just listening and aren't watching, that album was
met very oddly. People did not love it because it
wasn't what he was known for doing.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Sure, yeah it if you were used to like drinking
some lone stars and turning up at the Bar. I mean,
this is not that album, but my goodness, Stardust George
on My Mind Blue Skies.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
Now it's one of the most beloved Willly albums of
all time.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
It's fantastic. I mean, dude, you can clean that, put
the sucker on, clean the house, or go for a cruise.
I would go out to far West Texas where my
folks are from that way, So like when I'm driving
through Alpine Marfa, like, this is like syncs up to
my life man, so good.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
But you still listen to Stardus I still do.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Yeah, cool, I go back to it. It's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
I feel like that record. There's a couple that stick
out of my mind, records that were underappreciated at the
time that then got there just due years later. I'm
not sure if you're a Weezer fan, yeah, but Pinkerton
is that album where everybod's like, what the crap is?
This sucks? And now people like Pickerton rocks Man.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Which songs are on there. I'm not familiar with that
record per se, but I.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Like this, Oh Score Show is on Pinkerton, Mike and
it was it was just done different. It wasn't like
the Blue and have the Blue record. All the guys
signed it for me. I'm a massive Weezer fan. That's
why were my glove buddy Holly and Rivers squamore or
why I wear these glasses Because there was two nerdy
dudes who I thought were awesome, and I was a
nerdy dude and I wanted to be awesome and I
couldn't see. So I want to look like other nerdy

(57:43):
dudes that can't see and so. But that album not
loved at the time, but now people love it. And
I'm not comparing Weezer it at Willie, although I should.
They're both amazing two of my favorites. I keep all
the vinyl that is important to me, and I have
a couple of Willy albums out there. Glad you picked that.
Nobody's picked that yet.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
So you don't have this in the collection.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
I do not have it in the collection. No, So
I'm very appreciative of that. Yeah, and you have listened
to it, Oh take ten thousand times cool. Yeah. My
grandma was a massive Willie Nelson fan, and so I
know Willie from not being an adult and chasing it
because it's cool or historic or it means a lot
to country music. But because my grandma played it all
the time, and so Willie and like Ray Charles, Johnny

(58:29):
Cashell from Arkansas, so they're only like four people from marketsall,
but we loved all four of them. They made music,
and then it was a lot of like gospel stuff.
So that's what I grew up listening to. OK, because
my grandma raised me. Yeah, I thought that was current
contemporary country music for the youngest part of my life.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
Yeah, well, those are great influences, are great musical bedrock
to start from.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
Like Ray Charles, Modern sounds of country music ten thousand times. Wow,
what a great right.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
I got a woman on that one.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
I don't think i'd need to look. I have a
bunch of Rach Charles at the house.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
I don't mi. We see if I got a woman's
on that, I would bet No, let's see if I'd
lose the money.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
Also, in the meantime, if I don't, I'm blind to
without correct division. So really you're two blind nerds.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
Thank god. I didn't want to miss that. So I
was nervous and I was good. I still have my cred.
The one ounce that I have Cluse, I've really enjoyed
this man. Likewise, yeah, every time we've done a good
chunk here, I'm a fan of you guys' music.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
I always appreciate artists from Texas who moved to Nashville
and don't hate Nashville because I lived in Texas for
a long time and everybody had to say they hated
Nashville because that was part of what you had to
say when you're a Texas country artist. Yeah, but like
I'm close with Parker and he moved back to Texas.
But even, like you know, Josh Abbott, I used to

(59:56):
have all those guys on my show in Austin when
I was doing like pop radio cool and so I
became a fan of all that music. Like when Pat
Green did Wave on Wave, like I loved it. I
still love that song. Yeah, that was weird to me
that people were mad at Pat Green for doing Wave
on Wave because it was a Nashville type song. I
was like, dude, this is a great song. Sure, I
think today if he did it wouldn't be the same.

(01:00:16):
I think people would would just embrace it. Oh yeah yeah, yeah,
like it would still be a massive hit. But it
just wouldn't have any of the flak or no division
with it. I think it would still be a massive song.
But I think he was one of the first of
like my consuming days to be an artist from Texas. Yeah,
who went up to Nashville to cut a song and

(01:00:37):
it just wasn't I think. But I think he walked
so others could run.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
For sure. Randy told me something. He said, the roads
that we drive down were paved by guys like Pat
and Jerry Jeff Walker. And he's like, like I said,
we shouldn't so, Like I mentioned earlier about holding reverence
for those that came before, Pats called me out of
the blue before and before we played the Dicki's Arena
and our band played it and sold it out, and

(01:01:03):
he called and was, hey, man, and one, just congratulations
and that's huge, Like you don't, like, I hope that
you're taking the time to soak this in because it's
so rare, and also can I get a few tickets
from my daughter?

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
That's awesome? But yeah, congratulations on you guys success, but
mostly congratulations on doing something that's fulfilling you and it
just so happens to be done at a high level.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Now, thank you much.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Yeah, I think that's it. You're doing it. You would
have been doing it anyway, regardless of where you were
sitting on the total pole, and you'll go up and
down the total pole through the years. But that you're
doing something that fulfills you, like, that's real success.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
I do you feel successful in those regards and wake
up and I get to do what I love to do,
have chats with cool people, meet people from all different kinds,
and it doesn't No day is the same, so it's exciting,
and I look forward to the next one and seeing
what the next song is going to be too, you know,
seeing what's going to come through you. What time you
wake up in the morning here lately about eight am,

(01:01:57):
which is early for me too early. Yeah, you're a
rock star now eleven, let's do better.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
No, yeah, that's huguely, that's more like you on the
road eleven. Yeah, yeah, roads tough.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
Have you slept on the tour bus before?

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Many times? Night one? Difficult, Night two, a little better,
Night three? I'm good, But then I'm off the bus
right after that and I go through the same cycle again.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
It's wild.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Night one. I'm like this and when he goes over
the Oh god, as soon as he hit those sides
of it, I'm up. Yeah, I'm also a bit of
a Beyonce like Starbunk. I got the Starbunk that with
the bed in the back of the eye.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Yeah, good for you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Yeah, and everybody else has a little bond. I'm back there,
sprawed up. Yeah. Yeah, a tour bus sleeping is a
little bit annoying early, but then I get used to it.
And then when I get used to it, it's time
to come home. You don't do very well.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
It's a challenge. Yeah, I got this ordering to try
to help with that same Yeah, to be like, keep
me accountable because I want to be a superman. Oh,
I'll good. I'm good at three four hours these days.
I'm like I took a nap. For example, it said
I got four hours of sleep the other night before
our first show, and I took a nap. I found
a moment It was I literally had an hour and like, dude,

(01:03:08):
I was conked out, knocked out for like twenty six minutes.
But whenever you come to you're like, oh, dang, I
feel a lot better, Like your body needs sleep. I'm
gonna quit pretending it doesn't. I'm not Tesla or Edison
or whoever it is, and I just yeah, So I'm
trying to prioritize my sleep and rest so that I
can put on a good show and be energetic and
give the crowd your best. So yeah, I'm glad that

(01:03:31):
I figured It took me twelve years to figure that out, though.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
I think we I was just about to go into
some Tesla stuff, but you need to go worl over
an hour in, I was gonna talk about time machines,
but we'll move. Thank you for coming in. Thank you,
gratulations on the record, Thank you, and uh yeah, I'm
looking forward to see what you guys continue to do
there he is.

Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
Thanks Kleto, Thank you, Bobby, Thanks for listening to a
Bobby Cast production.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
M