June 18, 2026 • 43 mins
Haley Sacks, better known as Mrs. Dow Jones, joins Bobby to break down the money lessons everyone should know but rarely gets taught. She explains the difference between good and bad debt, why building wealth is usually a slow and boring process, and how small financial decisions can make a major difference over time. Haley also shares what it means to become a “future rich person,” the money habits that can quietly hold people back, and why getting your finances in order doesn’t have to feel intimidating or complicated.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
I love pop culture. I love the Kardashians, I love Beyonce,
Like I want to be these women, right, But what
if there was a woman that I wanted to be
who made it feel aspirational to grow wealth and like
to be go with money? And so I couldn't see her?
So I became her.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
My guest today is the one and only Hailey Sacks,
better known as Miss dal Jones, financial expert, host of
the Financial Tea podcast, and now a New York Times
bestselling author her book Future Rich Person. People love her.
Her content is so good. She has built a massive
following by making money feel funny and relatable and actually
understandable for millennials and gen z. And we talk investing,
(00:46):
and she's got pop culture, she's got comedy, she's got
brutally honest financial advice. We don't do a lot of
finance on this show. This is great. I really loved
this and let's get to it now Here she is
Hailey Sack. Can I tell you an investment that I
have here?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Tell me all of them?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
No, not all, but.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Besides your shoes, which I'm going to mug you for.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Thank you. I'm in New York. It feel perfect. Right,
uh Waterloo? Oh great, I like water as soon as
they started, as soon as they.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
That's a good and you're gonna be a good xcent
from that.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I am from Oh I lived in Austin for thirteen years.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Okay, I hear it.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
It's an Austin well from Arkansas. So that's probably what
you here.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't even.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
So.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
When I was moving from Austin, I had such great
relationships out of an Austin company said hey, we're starting a
water company and do you want to get in? And
I think they had an alcohol company, like, and I
said yeah, sure, And I was just starting to make
money yes, and I said sure, and I put in
some money and the company's doing awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
No, it's everywhere. It's really everywhere.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I'm pretty excited about that one.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah. I hope you got a big exit because I
feel like all the big brands like a Pepsi or
co Cola, like they want to acquire all those companies.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, that's that's what I hope. So that's one I
jumped into a restaurant.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
That's we have talked about that so correct I. So
you did all like fun investments, is what I'm hearing
so far.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
That's the only one that I talk about because the
other ones, Yeah, I know you're the expert. By the way,
congratulations on the book. Thank you so as you can
As you guys can see, she didn't even ask for
this to be put on the table for the record.
There was no demand of her putting this on the table.
This is called future rich person. So I grew up
extremely poor, like food stamps, welfare, grandma all this right,
(02:35):
So I didn't know money and it was a book
for me that helped when I started to make money,
and I think your book does the same thing current
time for people. The book that I read when I
was just starting to make money was Rich Dad, Poor Dad.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I was like, oh, okay, awsat's not liabilities.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I think your book is the newer, more connected, current
version of that for people. That's so nice, And I
hope that's a compliment to you because.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
It's a huge compliment. And that's like what I wanted
to do was well with First, I wanted to modernize
the financial advice because I mean, rich a Porto obviously
has like amazing pillars in it that are true even
in current day, like buying assets instead of liability. Yeah,
it's a very old school and the world has changed
so much, and especially like my audience as millennials and
(03:18):
gen z and we're living in this world of you know,
wages have increased seven percent since two thousand, but the
cost of living has increased sixty seven percent, and student
loan debt is crazy, and like we feel like AI
is taking all the jobs and just like all of
the we're living and we've inherited a very different world
than the financial advice is tailored to. And so we
(03:40):
need a modern book. That's why I wrote The New
Rules of Building Wealth. But I want to go back
to what you said about how you grew up, because
I talk about it in the book that the data
shows that by the time you're seven years old, your
relationship with money is set. So I'm interested in how
you sort of worked through your money mindset having grown
up with such scarcity now to still feel that way.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Oh yeah, yeah. I had a relationship with the money
that was this is never going to last. And I
had two ways to handle the money. Either save it
all and never spend a dollar, or give it all away.
And that's the only two things I would do because
having none. I wanted to make sure that I had
some to pay bills next month, even when I made
(04:23):
a lot of money. But also at the same time,
it was, well, I didn't have a whole lot, so
I want to give it all away. So I was
constantly bouncing between the two, and so that was my relationship.
Never had it and to make sure I have it,
you know what, I don't need it, I want to
give it all away. And that that was pretty much
the cycle I lived in.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
And then how did you break out of that?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I got a business manager and she shook.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Me, Yeah, you need always like you have like that
money aha moment. I talk about that in the book,
and it's either like can come from yourself or like
you know, you're lucky enough to have someone in your
life who shakes you, or it could be even just
reading a book and it wakes you up, but something
that makes you realize, like, oh this is real, Like
I have to actually learn how to do this.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I started to make money and I had to pay
a bunch of percentages out to people, which I was
not used to. I was paying like people in my band.
I was paying different taxes in all these different states.
If I was doing stand up, I was paying and
I was like, I can't do this. I don't know
what's going on. So I had to hire somebody. But
that's it was wild to hire somebody to take care
of my money, yeah, because that was my money. Yeah,
as a poor person, that was the weirdest thing I've
(05:25):
ever had to do, was pay somebody to take care
of my money. And you still have the same business
for fifteen years. Just like the closest person to me
other than my wife, Yes, yeah, it's her, so it
should be. Yeah, And I call her sometimes and I'm like,
we're good, just to be like. But I tell me,
if this is healthy. I log in because I have
like a portal into all the all my accounts. I
(05:45):
log in and probably look at it like seven times
a day.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
I mean, I don't know if that's probably not healthy,
but like, but I think that, like it's whatever works
for that. I would rather you keep a really close
eye on things versus no eye at all, because what
I see most is that people just manage to their
finances sort of on vibes, and they never actually know
what's going on because they don't want to know, and
so they just sort of live with the blanket over
(06:08):
their head.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I think my situation is so different because I went
from nothing to a lot, and I didn't have a
lot of middle time. Yeah, and so I don't think
that money you're little.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Did you always think that? Like, was that like in
your head how it was going to happen?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
In my head? My whole life, I thought I was
going to be extremely rich because I was going to
be extremely famous.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
There you go, like I always and you have to
have that sicko belief in order to make it happen,
like it's not. I'm not surprised at all to hear you.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Say that I always Yeah, I guess I didn't know,
but I knew.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
No, that's how I am too, Like I was like, oh,
I know what I'm going to do, Like I knew
the feeling that I wanted from work.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
It wasn't never about money, like I made money, not
chasing money because I was fine without money.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, you've chased your passion yep.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And so if you go into your DMS, what normal
question do people ask the most like? Because again it's
not normal for me on either side of it. So
what do people mostly hit you up about? In just dms.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Oh my god, Well, I get really the craziest dms
to be honest, because I run a segment called Financial Secrets,
So I get everyone's financial secrets about like a lot
of people hiding money from their spouses, a lot about inheritance,
like wondering what to do, like if you get a
bunch of money, A lot about finding out someone at
(07:28):
their company who has the same job as them is
making more than them. Talk about that, yeah, which is crazy.
So I mean, legally, there's nothing that says that if
you work at a company and me and you have
the same role, they have to pay us the same amount.
You know, but I might make more money because I'm
just more I'm better negotiator. And so but when you
(07:48):
find that out, I think it's really hard because you
don't really know what to do with information. But for
I think you need to reframe that and sort of
realize that it means that, like, you can get more money.
It doesn't mean that you should get more money by saying, hey,
you know, Shila is making more. But like when you negotiate,
you should say, oh, well, I've looked at, you know,
statistics of this position in other companies and you know
(08:13):
what the going rate is and I am underpaid, Like,
can we have this discussion.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I have found that when people are coming to me
to ask for more money, just the best communication method is, Hey,
what can I do to make this level of money?
Speaker 1 (08:32):
No, that's so true. I talk about that in the
book because I have a whole I'm like very much
a financial expert who is about making more. Like I
believe that there is a floor and how much we
can cut, but no ceiling to how much we can make,
and that especially for women, we encourage so much scarcity
instead of teaching women how to actually just make more,
(08:52):
which is going to create such differ like you cutting
avocado toaster a latte isn't going to move the bottom
line as much as like making you know, forty fifty
thousand dollars more a year like apples and oranges, and
so yeah, I think that it's really important for you
to focus on actually making more. And in the book
there's a whole chapter called secure the Damn Bag, which
(09:15):
is about how to make more money, and a pillar
of it is just being good at your job, like
literally try like because when you go in and negotiate,
I talk about this in the book that you have
to have a wins folder. So in your wins folder,
put in all the things that you've done right and
why you are more valuable than I think, and why
would be upset to lose you and all the great
(09:36):
work that you've done, and then ask for more.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
So present data, then ask for more.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, you have to present data, Like you don't just
deserve a raise because you've been there for a certain
amount of time. You know, you deserve get You get
a raise if you are doing more work and adding
value to the business, you know, and because I want
to keep you.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah, it's really hard to replace people too.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
So expensive and to find some like I find high.
I don't know what your experience has been with hiring,
but for me, it's been really difficult. And so it's
like if I find someone good, like that's someone that
like I want to cultivate and keep.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Where do you feel like people waste their most money?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
I think, Well, we're in this age of frictionless finance,
so like everyone is sort of using Apple Pay, like
Apple be paying, and we're just like on Instagram seeing
this influencer wear this new outfit or whatever, and we
want to be like them. It seems like their life
is so much better than ours, which is like they're
getting paid to show you that life that you aspire to,
so you will buy it, And so we buy whatever
(10:35):
they're wearing to have that feeling and that impulse by
is like all out of emotion, and that's really where
I think that people's finances deteriorate.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Social media has really mastered the dopamine hit though totally.
And the pause, I mean, I know what is happening
to me, and I still enjoy it, Like I double
click that Apple Pay and like, I know it's the
dopamine here that's gonna And I don't even really want
this freshman's poster, but I'll want to hit it anyway.
Boom boom Oh that.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
It arrives and you're like, whatever, I'm going to put this, yeah,
And it's just like so annoying to send it back
because it was like thirty dollars and you're like, well,
the shipping back is sixteen dollars, so should I do it?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
And then you're stuck with junk and it's in your
garage and it's like it actually deteriorates your mental health
more than it improves it, so I would say the
frictionless spending. And that's why I always encourage more friction
in your finances. Like I'm like remove Apple, pay on,
subscribe from newsletters. I'm the queen of unfollowing, and honestly
I'm the queen of returning because even though I'm a
(11:32):
financial expert and all these things, and like I wrote
this book, whatever, it still happens to me and I
think that's really important to say. And I say that
in the book A lot is like, look, I'm not perfect.
Like it's like there's we're in a the world is
set up for us to be so targeted. Like you
go on a website and there's all these like cookies
(11:53):
in the website that then are going to follow you
around the internet trying to get you to buy that
thing that you saw. You know what I mean. Like
we're literally it's like basically impossible not to buy things,
you know, because we're so marketed.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
To what I did. And you said that, and it's
what I continue to try to do is take the
extra three seconds when you hit me with accept all cookies,
I do the go in one more level and put no,
do no. Because when I accept all cookies. Man, the
cookies at me, like, and those cookies are so good,
they're so and I buy whatever I'm buying sself like
(12:29):
crazy because they know exactly what I.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Want want, and I got annoyed to when I see it,
like I'm like, oh, they're showing me that dress again
and again and again.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
And it's so easy to hit accept all cookies though,
because you just want to see the website. But if
you just do the go, it's like whatever it is
edit setting. Literally it's one button and then it's no,
and then it doesn't see everything that you're doing. There
you go, and so I do that. It's such a
good tip to keep myself from buying as much crap
because it's really just crap.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Too, and that hurts your mental health. It's I guess
it's about the like the financial back of it, but
it's also like you're right, like it's like then you
have that poster that you didn't even really care for
and you're just like, cool, what do I do? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I got yeah, I got this baseball glove? Exactly am
I going to do? Did you ever have a like
a bottom, like a low where you're like, oh no,
I got to fix what I'm doing financially well.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
So I started as a comedian and so my first
job out of college was for David Letterman, and then
I got a job working for Lauren Michaels at his
digital production company called Above Average. And it was like
a coup of a job because you know, in comedy,
it's like you're you're out there for yourself, like there's
no like easy Street, there's no like corporate track to
(13:41):
lift yourself up if you really have to do it
just day by day, brick by brick, you know, on
your own. And so this felt like a cheat to
that because it was like, great, I'm going to be
in the you know, SNL ecosystem, and I have a
full time job, and we're going to like be put
in front of all these agents and managers and whatever
(14:03):
they're going to platform us. And this is sick. And
then so I like meant a lot to me to
have it. But I never had a full time job
because I'd been doing comedy up until that point, which
is all ten ninety nine work, or I'd been having
these part time jobs on top of it to keep
myself afloat, like I was a nanny. I worked at
a pilates studio like just whatever. I was making videos
(14:23):
on the side for companies, like just piecing it together
as we all do in our early twenties. And so
the first day of that job, where I really wanted
them to like me and like to go really well,
they asked me about like health insurance and four o
one ks and I was expected to know how to
read a paycheck and all these things, and I had
no idea, and I was so embarrassed, like truly, I
was humiliated, and so I sort of just like nodded,
(14:43):
pretended like I didn't think a four oh one k
was a road race, and went home and tried to learn.
And then what I found was the information for women
was so much about scarcity and deprivation, like literally about
like rewashing your paper towels or like never buy a
pre cut vegetable like or of course no avocado TOAs
(15:04):
no lattes, like just so much about depriving yourself and
that being like being good with money as a woman,
like whatever, that's not true at all, nothing about building
wealth or you know, negotiating or making money or anything
like that. And then the information firm that was more
like Maile centered was just by these guys who look
like they'd really never been through puberty, and they were
(15:24):
so boring and it was like so jargon heavy and
just didn't relate to me. And so what I realized
is like, Okay, I live in this world where everything
feels really like fun and aspirational, Like I love pup culture,
I love the Kardashians, I love Beyonce, Like I want
to be these women, right, But what if there was
a woman that I wanted to be who made it
feel aspirational to grow wealth and like to be good
(15:44):
with money and actually like you know, max out your
roth ira or you know, like negotiate your salary or
say no to a bacherette trip or you know, do
any of these things that are sort of pillars to
a financial life. And so I couldn't see her, so
I became her.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor,
and we're back on the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
And so that's when you realized you wanted to learn
more and educate yourself. Did you dive in?
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Well, that was like I was patient zero. So I
was like, Okay, that's how I'm going to learn. That's
what's going to interest me and then really what I did,
and you have the same story as me, where it's
like financial books are really the key to like starting
that financial journey. Like that's why I was so excited
to write a money book too, because to me, like
that is what propelled everything for me. I just read
(16:40):
so much and I became an expert through that.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I feel like there's so much bad advice on TikTok,
so much bad advice just people either saying things for
clicks or they're ill educated on what they're saying, like
even that they think they're right and they're wrong.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
You run into a lot of that.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Number said and they say it was such a gusto
that you're like, wait are they write? And they're given
like stock tips and they're you know, they're they're always
in their car and it's always like a nice car
that I'm sure is like they're in debt leasing and
like they have so much energy and enthusiasm as they're
telling you one hundred percent. But you have to be
so careful with financial advice online. What's crazy is that
(17:17):
the data shows that it's really working to have financial
advice online like gen Z is contributing to their four
O one case at a higher rate than any other generation,
and it's like, Okay, what sort of the difference. Could
it be that like they're just seeing more, they're more
financially literate because they have more access to it in
this way, I hope so. But I think it's also
really important to be discerning. And remember, you want your
(17:40):
life to be exciting. You want your relationship to be exciting.
You want like cool, exciting accessories and clothing and trips
and all this stuff. But getting rich should be boring.
So any person that you see online who's making it
seem really easy and really fast and really exciting, they're
the ones who are getting rich off of you.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
I have a lot of questions about debt.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yes, I'm your girl.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I was so afraid of debt my whole life because
I never wanted to owe anybody anything. I've never had debt.
I don't have debt in any anything now house. But
it was always that way, and so I always lived
extremely within my means, or I saved up and I
bought it because I did not want to have debt.
Now I have learned, and this is rational and irrational.
Fighting with each other to me, I've been taught that
(18:24):
not all debt is bad.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yes, exactly. So it's all about the seven percent rule.
Tell me that have you heard of this? I would
like for you to tell of course I have, but
tell them, okay, I'll tell you. Well, so you're saying
that you buy your house outright now.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
I have no debt yet. I also understand that some
debt is okay, but I'm still so scared of it.
And some debt I couldn't get a I couldn't get
a loan because I have no credit history and I
have a lot of money in the bank, but they
were like, we can't give you a loan because you
don't have a credit history at all. And so there
are also there's just tell me my debt's good, okay.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
So this is a classic like rich person versus normal
person thing where it's like, yeah, normal people are so
scared of debt. And also the financial advice, the old
rules of building wealth that we need to replace. We're
all about debt being so evil. Like Dave Ramsey is
this big pillar of financial literacy, and he literally has
a bell that people like drive like twenty hours to
(19:25):
come ring when they become debt free. Like the culture
is all about being debt free. But there's something called
the seven percent rule that rich people use to actually
leverage debt to make more money.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
But you have to be rich to use a seven
percent rule.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
No, but it it works if you have student any
So basically it's the seven percent rule is all about
your debt interest rate. So say I have student loans
that are five percent. The stock market historically returns eight
to ten percent annually, So if I'm going I would
make I would make more money paying the minimum on
(20:05):
that five percent and then investing whatever extra money that
I was going to put towards it to pay it
off aggressively in the stock market. Then I would save
by just paying off that loan. And this is why
you see celebrities have mortgages. Jay Z and Beyonce have
a mortgage. Mark Zuckerberg has a mortgage. Adele has a mortgage.
(20:28):
Why because they're borrowing money at a lower interest rate
than they could make investing it, and they're able to
turn a profit and grow wealth. And you can do
this too if you have low interest rate debt.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Okay, feel stupid.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Now, Well, I mean we should. We should REFI your house,
you're not at this point. But also, the one thing
to know about financial advice is yes, there's a there's
a right and the wrong way to do things, but
there's also a U way to do things. And I
think that we all come into this with our own gripes,
history and things that we're working through. And so it's like,
(21:03):
if what feels really safe to you and good?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
It's safe, it's a good word. Yeah, it's safe.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
You feel safe not having a mortgage. Sure, there might
be a way for you to make more money, but
it sounds like you have enough money. And if like
safe means more to you than extra zeros in your
bank account, that's okay.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
One of the habits I had to break was I
would pay bills a month extra in case I have
a rent out of money, so I'd have a month buffer.
And my business manager like, you have to start doing that,
But I was like, no, no, you don't understand. Like
back in the day, if you electricity got cut, you
(21:39):
were done. Yeah, She's like, electricity is not going to
get cut. I have the fear of mindset still in yeah,
where I've had to stop a lot of those habits. Yeah,
because I have somebody telling me, and I think you're
that somebody to a much younger generation.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Well, you're lucky that you have this business manager. It
sounds like she's been super helpful.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I pay her.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, but that's okay. People paying me buy my book.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
She gets that's good. Yeah, and the books has done fantastic. Yeah,
the book your best. They have to call you in
New York Times best seller. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I want to call you at it too, because it's
a tombstone thing. You're two acts, two times New York
Times that seller. Why does the latter? Why does the
goalpost always move? Now? I have one, and it's like,
ooh shit, I gotta do it again.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I almost didn't do it again. I didn't want to
write a sod.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
How long was it till you did it again? Four
years and you got a big fat deal.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Would you let me to tell you my story? I
would love you guys have to do with money?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, I love money. I love stories.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
You're my guest, so I wouldn't normally tell a long
story about me, but you are a money person, and
this is a money story. I think we will enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
I was pitching eight children's I had done a children's
music record. It got bought by Cracker Barrel, and so
I did this and I was like, oh, well, how
about that seems pretty easy. I'll do a kid's book.
And I had a few meetings with some publishers in
New York, and so I flew up to New York
and nobody wanted it because that kid's book market was
oversaturated and I wasn't famous enough, and so it was
(23:06):
a mixture of both of those things. And so I
had done two or three meetings and I went to
one final meeting at HarperCollins, which is a large book company.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yes familiar with, one of the big publishing houses.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And I pitched them the idea for the kids book
and they said that's not for us. But the meeting
that I pitched to there was someone in there who
was a hybrid working that worked in kids and also nonfiction,
and they said, hey, we love your life story. Would
you write it? And I said, I don't know, Like,
I'm not Michael Phelps, ye, not a Kardashian, I don't
(23:37):
know if anyone wants it. And she's like, if you'll
come tomorrow and pitch to a different group, we would
love to have you. And I was already flying back
home at the time. Only yeah, So I canceled my flight.
I stayed at extra night. I went back and I
pitched and they said, we love the book, and they
offered me like one hundred and eighty thousand dollars up front,
which was a really good advance. I felt, I don't
(24:00):
know what people make, especially to be I do. Now.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, I'm like, for you, like we could get to
hire maybe.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Well, I didn't know the difference, and I'd never written
a book, and I didn't think I deserved one hundred
and eighty thousand.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
And so I'm like, I said, no, I'm not going
to take the money, but let me write half the
book and if you still like it, I'll take your money. Wow,
then I'll finish the second. I've never written anything. I mean,
i've written blogs, yeah, but you know that's different.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
No.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Writing a book is so you have to have the
structure down and the whole thing. It's a lot.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
And I went home and I just wrote essay after
essay after essay, just about my life story. And I
turned in thirty thousand words and they said, we like it.
Will you take the money? Now, and so I took
the money.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
You're so funny.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
I didn't want the debt.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Money, so you didn't want that. You didn't want the debt.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Of the book to you didn't want the debt.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
He said, no, I'll show you I'm good for it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I was like, I want you to.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
You paid one month in advance.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I want you to actually believe that it's good by
me showing it to you, because I don't believe. Yeah,
I'm good. Yes, And so I wrote it. They paid me.
I then finished a book. It was number one for
four weeks, which.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Was four weeks number one.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Why I'll kill it, I'm telling you, is why I
did not believe.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Number one for four weeks? Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (25:09):
No, that's crazy. I agree. I was embarrassed before it
came out because I thought, and you know, the book
tour is it's grueling, it's grooling. I'm gonna do all
this book tour, nobody's gonna buy it and everyone just
gonna like laugh, and I'll never write anything again. And
so it did really well, and they were like, let's
do another one. We'll give you more money. I'm like,
I'm out. It ain't about the money. I'm out, I'm
(25:29):
a one hit wonder. I'm good. No, you did it.
And so I just number one for four weeks.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
For a second.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I don't sit with you.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Keep going.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I said no for three years or so. And then
I did a TED talk and it was called winning
by Losing and they said, write that and I said,
I don't know, and they said, here's a check. I said, okay,
I'll take that one up front. It was much it
was much more.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, I'm sure because you were you prove that you
could do it.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah. And then I didn't feel like I was stealing
their money and they were trying to convince me to
do I'd have to pitch them.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
And so then I wrote a book called fail until
You Don't and it it was two week number one.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Hill you Don't, great title, thank you, and it was
that it was very practical.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
And then I got my friends to write their failure
stories so smart that are that are super famous, like yeah, Charlottage,
the god who is one of my closest friends. So
he wrote it like a chapter in it. Wow, Chris Stapleton,
like all these artists, of these people that I it
was just like talk about your biggest failure that people
will have no idea, And so I wrote like eighty
(26:26):
five percent of it. It had some friends hop in and
do that, and then it did well and then I'm like,
I'm done. Then I wrote a kid's book and it
was it was good. But that was my book stories
that I wouldn't take the money because I was scared
to take the money because I didn't think I was
good enough.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
I mean, I totally get that. I think that, like
there's so much imposter syndrome when it comes to, you know,
taking checks, but you know, you sort of just have
to go with it, especially in this industry, because sometimes
the chucks are pretty big and you don't want you
don't want to pass them up.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
How did you negotiate your book deal? Well, we did.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
I played everyone against each other, which is always.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Good to you had multiple people. See I didn't have.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
No no But so I actually so what I initially
did my book deal. I wanted to do almost like
write like a Sex in the City or a girls,
like a story that was about girl, like four friends
in New York City starting out and like their money
journey and they have this mentor and like uh uh,
(27:25):
teach about money through that because I'm so much about
like having brownie, having spinach in the brownie, like trying
to find creative ways to teach finance that people would
be compelled by me.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Such I like that spinach in the brownie. I've never
heard that.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I think about that all the time because it's like
you want it to feel like a treat. Like That's
why I use so much humor and everything I do
and things like that, cause it's like you want it
to just feel like so palatable. And so I worked
so hard on this book. Deal. Uh, my friend Genevievan
Yellow I went to college with and she like writes
on hacks and is doing Jake Shane's show and like
is like such a big television writer shoes doing it
(28:00):
with me, And so we brought it out. I had
agents at UTA and couldn't really get more than like
hunter k for it, and they were like, okay, but
just so you know, if you just did the like
finance book, like the one oh one yeah missus dow
Jones book, you didn't like musty it up with like
all this flavor, you would get a lot more and
(28:22):
like probably help more people. And so I was like, Okay,
I get it, like I have to just start my
book journey with the one oh one. And it ended
up being so correct because I'm so happy that something
exists now that can take you from like wherever you're
starting to where you want to go and in such
a clear way, and like I'm sure there will be
another car reincarnation of that other part, like things always
(28:43):
find the way that they're supposed to happen, you know.
And so yeah, we brought it to a bunch of
publishing houses and played them against each other. And then
what was interesting is that like the four that I
really wanted to work with had the same offer number,
and which was sort of cool because then I could
really decide based on like who I actually wanted to
(29:05):
work with, versus having that in my head of like
like you know, if you get a job offer, you're
usually going to take the job with the most money,
you know, but you could actually I could actually just
decide on like who is the best people to work
with and so but I mean, all that strategy just
came from having good agents, which it sounds like you
have good coaches and people around you too, And I
really believe and I talk about this in the book,
(29:27):
investing in your human capital and like making sure that
you are, you know, making yourself as strong as you
can be, and that can also mean who you're working with.
But I also say, on the topic of failure, it's
crazy to be a New York Times bestseller because it
was so hard to do this, and so it's fun.
Like now I've been like a week of doing it,
and I find myself everything that I'm saying in response
(29:48):
to people saying, Wow, that's great, this is so cool,
it's just like this is really hard, you know, and
it's like I love that that was what your book
was about, because I'm like, it's so important. You just
see the shiny moment and people it's the same thing
with the influencer with the cool outfit that you want
to buy. Like you get this like really small moment
that you're seeing and you don't realize all that goes
(30:10):
into it. That's like a lot of grit.
Speaker 5 (30:13):
The Bobby cast will be right back. This is the
Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
What do you think has been the element in your
book that most people have resonated with so much so
they've told you.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I will say, well, I have a bunch of stories,
and I think that the stories around so for women,
especially having an emergency fund is really important, which is
basically like this three to six month sort of pot
of gold that you keep in a high heeled savings
account of bare bones living expenses, and it really gives
you the power to say no and to like walk
(30:54):
away from situations that don't serve you. And so I
have a story in the book of Most of the
people in the BOOKO I interview were followers, but this
was actually my friend and she was in an abusive
relationship and everything on the surface looked really great and
sort of in like that mid thirties way that can happen,
(31:14):
I think, especially to women where you were sort of like, ooh,
all my friends are getting married. You know, this guy's tall,
we WoT a dog together, we're living together. Is it
that bad? Maybe? Is there anyone out there for me
that's better?
Speaker 2 (31:25):
You know, you got this guy's tall.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
This guy's tall. Tall can really mess with your head.
Man like tall and a dog. The dog's name was Matilda.
Come on, man, like, those are some good things going
for you. And she pushed her around a little, but
I mean she's trying to see past it. But anyways,
(31:48):
it did get to a breaking point where she was like, oops,
gotta go, and how'd she leave with the emergency fund?
And she had she got her freedom apartment, so she
calls it. It took her over a year to rebuild
in the emergency fund, but it was like that gave
her the power to say no. And so I think
that resonates with a lot of people. Yeah. And I
(32:10):
also yet.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
If people want to invest in stocks, because something like
robinhood is so easy to just download or whatever the
app is. I'm not sponsored by anyone, so I Robin
free Agent. Yeah. So like how does someone get started,
like and what should they invest in?
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Yeah, so it's actually so easy. I always say it's
like basically take seventh grade math some like just bravery
because most people are so scared of doing it wrong
and automation and you can start investing. And so I
really recommend low cost index funds, which are basically these
like big baskets of stocks. And so what that means
(32:46):
is you're not going all in, Like for you, Okay,
you have this investment in Waterloo. If Waterloo tanks, that
money is gone gone.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
But if you have a low cost index fund like
say buy the S and P five hundred. I'm buying
a little piece of five hundred of the biggest companies
in America. So if one of those, say is Waterloo,
when they go under, I've got four hundred and ninety
nine other stocks to bring the next fund back up
and get me to those eight to ten percent returns.
And all the data shows this is like the most
(33:18):
effective way to invest for the long term. And so
I don't really know why people mess around with like
day trading and buying individual stocks, because all the data
shows that you're never really going to beat the market,
like even active traders don't really beat the market. And
so I would say, yeah, two to three locals index
funds I have on my website at missus Dow Jones
dot com, like my low cost index fund guide that
(33:40):
has all the index funds that I like, And all
that you need to do is buy two to three
and automate that investment every month, and then you will
literally your wealth will be compounding and growing and you
ten twenty thirty years from now will have millions of dollars.
It's that simple.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
How do you feel about cryptocurrency?
Speaker 1 (33:58):
I like to look at it as like a accessory
to a portfolio, you know, not the main event, like
I think with a stock. With your investment portfolio, you
can take like five to ten percent if you want
and be experimental, buy Crypto, buy Waterloo, you know, do
the thing whatever, Like your cousin gives you a tip,
(34:20):
go for it. But the ninety percent of that portfolio
should be in low cost index funds so that you
have your own back, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
So you said earlier, and of course.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
There's always ways to get rich quick, right, and everything
looks better in hindsight, you know. So you see Crypto
when it's up and you're like, shit, I should have
bought it, and it gives you that fomo feeling, but
you should like it's not. I wish I had a
crystal ball. I don't, but all I do have is
like the data, and that shows if I buy low
cost index funds, I'm probably going to get eight to
ten percent returns and that in twenty or thirty years,
(34:53):
like that's going to make me a shit ton of money.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
So you said earlier, be boring, make more money, but
index funds are very boring.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yeah, it's an but you're gambling and investing are not
the same thing, right.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
So that's very boring, which means you're gonna make yeah,
probably more money, right Like yeah, overall, macro speaking, you
might have a stock or too that pops, so you're
gonna have something that fall if you're buying individual stocks.
But if you're doing, like you said, an index fund
of the sort, what do you call them? A low
cost index contentive fun Yeah, uh, that is generally ones
(35:24):
that succeed more. That's what you're saying, dude. Like if
you buy the SP five hundred, pretty successful rate year over.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Year, Yeah, the eight percent, got it, and like over
twenty years, like there's like a ninety nine percent chance
that you're making money.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Oh it's that high.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yeah, it's insane because if that's INP five hundred goes down,
those are the top five hundred companies in America. So
it's like it's pretty much armageddon.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Like it's not like we all dying.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah, it's like okay, like go on your bunker, babe,
Like I'm not sure the stock portfolio is really the
issue here, Like pretty sure, Like we got bigger fish
to fry, so you know, like you're pretty safe.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
I'm genuinely asking these questions, like I don't know the answers. No,
I'm loving I'm not being the I am the dumb
guy when it comes to things like this.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
No, I love it because.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
I didn't learn it, and then once I could have
learned it, I had somebody doing it for me.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Yeah, which is also a way to do it.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
You say, invest in human human capital?
Speaker 1 (36:15):
How do you do that?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
What capital?
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah? Like how do you make yourself better at what
you do? Like, you're clearly really good at what you do? Like,
you touched a lot of things and they've turned to gold.
Where do you think that comes from?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I've also touched a lot of things and they have
not turned to gold.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah. But like doing a Ted talk and having it
pop the fuck off, Like that's okay, curse, okay, fuck.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Shit, get them all out, get them all out.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I was gonna say a worse one, but I'm a lady.
No the P word.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Oh, that one's not bad as the C word.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Do both? I don't want to, though, I'm scared.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
I prom I well, I don't know the question now.
After after that, I'm sure, uh oh human capital?
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Yeah, okay, Like about having a ted talk that pops
the fuck off Like that's no, Like what that's crazy?
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah, it did pretty good. I don't know that it
popped super hard, but it did pretty good enough to
where my book company was like, that's what you should write.
But how I invest in human capital is I find
people that I think have a great energy and a
great work ethic, and I believe they can then learn
anything I need them to learn.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
That's so great.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
I love that all of depending on what part of
my business, for example, like my radio show, my national
my syndicated show, they're all my friends of the love,
I hired all my friends because they made me better.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yeah, no, I hired my best friend to work with
me too.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
And you know, there's certain there are some good things,
and there are things you have to work through to
hire your friends, for sure. But then even in like
my other business, like we have you know, this podcast
on Netflix and I have a whole crew and they're
all my friends too that you know have worked with
me in other parts of my job, who I know
have a like great work ethic, massive energy. And then
(37:53):
also I know they're able to learn because I've seen
them learn in other ways and having them around me,
make me feel good, make me perform better. That's my
human capital. So I like investing in those people.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
You like investing in your in like people around you
who can make you look good, and like.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Make me feel good. Feel good, I feel good. Everything
else goes right. If I feel good, I play good.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
I love that. But do you ever do things like
you have like a vocal cultu or like a like
a mindset person.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
A trainer at therapists?
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yeah, exactly, Like so that's that's also like human capital too,
where it's like you have to fine tune yourself so
that when you get out on the field and you
do play, you're the best version of yourself. And by
the way, I'm obsessed with having a trainer. I think
that when you are busy, it is so hard to
get your ass to the gym.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
That's the best part about it. It's not even there
teaching you what to do. It's you're now dedicated at
that time because you're paying that money.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Like you think I would ever do a lunge if
someone was paying someone like a lune Absolutely not. That's
not on the menu for me. So maybe a walk to.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Keep yourself healthy. Another thing would be like things I
do to keep myself healthy peptide.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Yeah, so that's what you mean by.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
That plasma I could see you doing.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Plasma blow spinning.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, I could you spinning.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Prp Oh. Yes, all the letters Okay.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
I love it. I surprised I don't have an IV right.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Here, got letters? I are probably staking in my bodies.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Okay, I love the season two. Maybe you've got some
needles going.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
So that's what you mean by human capital, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Like things that you do like I think, well, okay,
so like say you're uh starting your career, you might
feel like you're just like on this hodonic treadmill and
like nothing's really working and whatever. But like if you
invest in your skill, like people who are so scared
of AI, right, I doesn't take all my jobs whatever.
The people who win, they are gonna be the ones
who know how to use it. So instead of being
(39:42):
scared of AI, learn how to use it, get really
good at it. Things like that where you put yourself
in the position to win because you invest in making
yourself better. I think that you are your best investment always.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
I completely agree. I think you and the people you
surround yourself to totally like you are your environment. So
and if your environment ain't good, you ain't gonna be
good for long. Like you might be good for a minute,
but you're not gonna be good for long. Yeah, So
I completely subscribe to your theory.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah, one bad Apple ruin the bunch? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Would you have any content early that popped off so
hard they kind of told you were going in the
right direction?
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Such a question. I am not an overnight success. I
don't know if that's your journey. But for me, I
have been grinding for like nine years. There's certainly been
content that really pushed me to the next level. Like
I did a video about Remember I don't know if
this was came across your desk, but when Beyonce was
on tour, she was every her daughter was dancing with
(40:38):
her every weekend, and the internet would go crazy, like
analyzing Blue Ivy Beyonce's daughters dance moves and is she
and Nepo baby, is she even good? La? And like
and Blue invested in her own human capital actually and
like worked really hard to get better. So if you
see the videos from the beginning of the tour to
the end, she's like, she's like pro by the end,
(41:00):
which is I mean just an aside, but I made
a video about custodial rothy raise connected to that, which
are these investment accounts that you can open for children
who have taxable income, which, of course, if you're dancing
on a tour, whether or not it's your mother's tour
or not, you have taxable income. And I showed how
(41:21):
much money you could make by doing that through telling
the story of Blue Ivy that, of course the whole
Internet was aware of because every weekend she's performing and
then there's a discourse, and you know, it was right
in the culture pop but it was the perfect Missus
dow Jones moment of taking the pop culture and using
it to tell you something about money.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Spinach in the Brownie.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Spinach and the Brownie Baby, and that was insane. That
was like three hundred thousand followers, Yeah, three hundred thousand followers,
like push me really quickly to a million. That video
got like thirteen million views. But instead of just getting
the views and sometimes the video is viral and nothing happens,
(42:04):
it actually grew me. So that's one that I think about,
But I think everything else is just one foot in
front of the other. And like you said, so many failures.
Like that's one video that worked. Guess what, there were
like one hundred other videos that didn't work that broke
my heart that I worked just as hard on. So
you can't, you know, ever figure out what's going to hit.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Well, congratulations, it's fantastic, Thank you, future rich person. Here
it is. I'm gonna show all the cameras so nice.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
I feel so lucky I get to sit down with you.
I'm such a big fan you.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
No, did stop.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
It's true you did.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
I know your content. I'm not even gonna challenge you.
I'm just gonna say thank you. My therapist says I
should say thank you when people say something, and not
like you're lying.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
No, I do that too. You reflect.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Yeah, you're like, oh, Bobby, I like you. You're lying.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
No, Bobby, I like you and you're lying.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Okay, here's the book. It is a New York Times bestseller. Hayley,
thank you so much. And I will continue to consume
your content tent so nice. Me too, ditto, She'll consume
our content to perfect All right, there it is you guys,
get the book.
Speaker 5 (43:07):
Thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production
I love pop culture. I love the Kardashians, I love Beyonce,
Like I want to be these women, right, But what
if there was a woman that I wanted to be
who made it feel aspirational to grow wealth and like
to be go with money? And so I couldn't see her?
So I became her.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
My guest today is the one and only Hailey Sacks,
better known as Miss dal Jones, financial expert, host of
the Financial Tea podcast, and now a New York Times
bestselling author her book Future Rich Person. People love her.
Her content is so good. She has built a massive
following by making money feel funny and relatable and actually
understandable for millennials and gen z. And we talk investing,
(00:46):
and she's got pop culture, she's got comedy, she's got
brutally honest financial advice. We don't do a lot of
finance on this show. This is great. I really loved
this and let's get to it now Here she is
Hailey Sack. Can I tell you an investment that I
have here?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Tell me all of them?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
No, not all, but.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Besides your shoes, which I'm going to mug you for.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Thank you. I'm in New York. It feel perfect. Right,
uh Waterloo? Oh great, I like water as soon as
they started, as soon as they.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
That's a good and you're gonna be a good xcent
from that.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I am from Oh I lived in Austin for thirteen years.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Okay, I hear it.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
It's an Austin well from Arkansas. So that's probably what
you here.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't even.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
So.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
When I was moving from Austin, I had such great
relationships out of an Austin company said hey, we're starting a
water company and do you want to get in? And
I think they had an alcohol company, like, and I
said yeah, sure, And I was just starting to make
money yes, and I said sure, and I put in
some money and the company's doing awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
No, it's everywhere. It's really everywhere.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I'm pretty excited about that one.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah. I hope you got a big exit because I
feel like all the big brands like a Pepsi or
co Cola, like they want to acquire all those companies.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, that's that's what I hope. So that's one I
jumped into a restaurant.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
That's we have talked about that so correct I. So
you did all like fun investments, is what I'm hearing
so far.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
That's the only one that I talk about because the
other ones, Yeah, I know you're the expert. By the way,
congratulations on the book. Thank you so as you can
As you guys can see, she didn't even ask for
this to be put on the table for the record.
There was no demand of her putting this on the table.
This is called future rich person. So I grew up
extremely poor, like food stamps, welfare, grandma all this right,
(02:35):
So I didn't know money and it was a book
for me that helped when I started to make money,
and I think your book does the same thing current
time for people. The book that I read when I
was just starting to make money was Rich Dad, Poor Dad.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I was like, oh, okay, awsat's not liabilities.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I think your book is the newer, more connected, current
version of that for people. That's so nice, And I
hope that's a compliment to you because.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
It's a huge compliment. And that's like what I wanted
to do was well with First, I wanted to modernize
the financial advice because I mean, rich a Porto obviously
has like amazing pillars in it that are true even
in current day, like buying assets instead of liability. Yeah,
it's a very old school and the world has changed
so much, and especially like my audience as millennials and
(03:18):
gen z and we're living in this world of you know,
wages have increased seven percent since two thousand, but the
cost of living has increased sixty seven percent, and student
loan debt is crazy, and like we feel like AI
is taking all the jobs and just like all of
the we're living and we've inherited a very different world
than the financial advice is tailored to. And so we
(03:40):
need a modern book. That's why I wrote The New
Rules of Building Wealth. But I want to go back
to what you said about how you grew up, because
I talk about it in the book that the data
shows that by the time you're seven years old, your
relationship with money is set. So I'm interested in how
you sort of worked through your money mindset having grown
up with such scarcity now to still feel that way.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Oh yeah, yeah. I had a relationship with the money
that was this is never going to last. And I
had two ways to handle the money. Either save it
all and never spend a dollar, or give it all away.
And that's the only two things I would do because
having none. I wanted to make sure that I had
some to pay bills next month, even when I made
(04:23):
a lot of money. But also at the same time,
it was, well, I didn't have a whole lot, so
I want to give it all away. So I was
constantly bouncing between the two, and so that was my relationship.
Never had it and to make sure I have it,
you know what, I don't need it, I want to
give it all away. And that that was pretty much
the cycle I lived in.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
And then how did you break out of that?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I got a business manager and she shook.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Me, Yeah, you need always like you have like that
money aha moment. I talk about that in the book,
and it's either like can come from yourself or like
you know, you're lucky enough to have someone in your
life who shakes you, or it could be even just
reading a book and it wakes you up, but something
that makes you realize, like, oh this is real, Like
I have to actually learn how to do this.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I started to make money and I had to pay
a bunch of percentages out to people, which I was
not used to. I was paying like people in my band.
I was paying different taxes in all these different states.
If I was doing stand up, I was paying and
I was like, I can't do this. I don't know
what's going on. So I had to hire somebody. But
that's it was wild to hire somebody to take care
of my money, yeah, because that was my money. Yeah,
as a poor person, that was the weirdest thing I've
(05:25):
ever had to do, was pay somebody to take care
of my money. And you still have the same business
for fifteen years. Just like the closest person to me
other than my wife, Yes, yeah, it's her, so it
should be. Yeah, And I call her sometimes and I'm like,
we're good, just to be like. But I tell me,
if this is healthy. I log in because I have
like a portal into all the all my accounts. I
(05:45):
log in and probably look at it like seven times
a day.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
I mean, I don't know if that's probably not healthy,
but like, but I think that, like it's whatever works
for that. I would rather you keep a really close
eye on things versus no eye at all, because what
I see most is that people just manage to their
finances sort of on vibes, and they never actually know
what's going on because they don't want to know, and
so they just sort of live with the blanket over
(06:08):
their head.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I think my situation is so different because I went
from nothing to a lot, and I didn't have a
lot of middle time. Yeah, and so I don't think
that money you're little.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Did you always think that? Like, was that like in
your head how it was going to happen?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
In my head? My whole life, I thought I was
going to be extremely rich because I was going to
be extremely famous.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
There you go, like I always and you have to
have that sicko belief in order to make it happen,
like it's not. I'm not surprised at all to hear you.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Say that I always Yeah, I guess I didn't know,
but I knew.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
No, that's how I am too, Like I was like, oh,
I know what I'm going to do, Like I knew
the feeling that I wanted from work.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
It wasn't never about money, like I made money, not
chasing money because I was fine without money.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, you've chased your passion yep.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And so if you go into your DMS, what normal
question do people ask the most like? Because again it's
not normal for me on either side of it. So
what do people mostly hit you up about? In just dms.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Oh my god, Well, I get really the craziest dms
to be honest, because I run a segment called Financial Secrets,
So I get everyone's financial secrets about like a lot
of people hiding money from their spouses, a lot about inheritance,
like wondering what to do, like if you get a
bunch of money, A lot about finding out someone at
(07:28):
their company who has the same job as them is
making more than them. Talk about that, yeah, which is crazy.
So I mean, legally, there's nothing that says that if
you work at a company and me and you have
the same role, they have to pay us the same amount.
You know, but I might make more money because I'm
just more I'm better negotiator. And so but when you
(07:48):
find that out, I think it's really hard because you
don't really know what to do with information. But for
I think you need to reframe that and sort of
realize that it means that, like, you can get more money.
It doesn't mean that you should get more money by saying, hey,
you know, Shila is making more. But like when you negotiate,
you should say, oh, well, I've looked at, you know,
statistics of this position in other companies and you know
(08:13):
what the going rate is and I am underpaid, Like,
can we have this discussion.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I have found that when people are coming to me
to ask for more money, just the best communication method is, Hey,
what can I do to make this level of money?
Speaker 1 (08:32):
No, that's so true. I talk about that in the
book because I have a whole I'm like very much
a financial expert who is about making more. Like I
believe that there is a floor and how much we
can cut, but no ceiling to how much we can make,
and that especially for women, we encourage so much scarcity
instead of teaching women how to actually just make more,
(08:52):
which is going to create such differ like you cutting
avocado toaster a latte isn't going to move the bottom
line as much as like making you know, forty fifty
thousand dollars more a year like apples and oranges, and
so yeah, I think that it's really important for you
to focus on actually making more. And in the book
there's a whole chapter called secure the Damn Bag, which
(09:15):
is about how to make more money, and a pillar
of it is just being good at your job, like
literally try like because when you go in and negotiate,
I talk about this in the book that you have
to have a wins folder. So in your wins folder,
put in all the things that you've done right and
why you are more valuable than I think, and why
would be upset to lose you and all the great
(09:36):
work that you've done, and then ask for more.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
So present data, then ask for more.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, you have to present data, Like you don't just
deserve a raise because you've been there for a certain
amount of time. You know, you deserve get You get
a raise if you are doing more work and adding
value to the business, you know, and because I want
to keep you.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah, it's really hard to replace people too.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
So expensive and to find some like I find high.
I don't know what your experience has been with hiring,
but for me, it's been really difficult. And so it's
like if I find someone good, like that's someone that
like I want to cultivate and keep.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Where do you feel like people waste their most money?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
I think, Well, we're in this age of frictionless finance,
so like everyone is sort of using Apple Pay, like
Apple be paying, and we're just like on Instagram seeing
this influencer wear this new outfit or whatever, and we
want to be like them. It seems like their life
is so much better than ours, which is like they're
getting paid to show you that life that you aspire to,
so you will buy it, And so we buy whatever
(10:35):
they're wearing to have that feeling and that impulse by
is like all out of emotion, and that's really where
I think that people's finances deteriorate.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Social media has really mastered the dopamine hit though totally.
And the pause, I mean, I know what is happening
to me, and I still enjoy it, Like I double
click that Apple Pay and like, I know it's the
dopamine here that's gonna And I don't even really want
this freshman's poster, but I'll want to hit it anyway.
Boom boom Oh that.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
It arrives and you're like, whatever, I'm going to put this, yeah,
And it's just like so annoying to send it back
because it was like thirty dollars and you're like, well,
the shipping back is sixteen dollars, so should I do it?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
And then you're stuck with junk and it's in your
garage and it's like it actually deteriorates your mental health
more than it improves it, so I would say the
frictionless spending. And that's why I always encourage more friction
in your finances. Like I'm like remove Apple, pay on,
subscribe from newsletters. I'm the queen of unfollowing, and honestly
I'm the queen of returning because even though I'm a
(11:32):
financial expert and all these things, and like I wrote
this book, whatever, it still happens to me and I
think that's really important to say. And I say that
in the book A lot is like, look, I'm not perfect.
Like it's like there's we're in a the world is
set up for us to be so targeted. Like you
go on a website and there's all these like cookies
(11:53):
in the website that then are going to follow you
around the internet trying to get you to buy that
thing that you saw. You know what I mean. Like
we're literally it's like basically impossible not to buy things,
you know, because we're so marketed.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
To what I did. And you said that, and it's
what I continue to try to do is take the
extra three seconds when you hit me with accept all cookies,
I do the go in one more level and put no,
do no. Because when I accept all cookies. Man, the
cookies at me, like, and those cookies are so good,
they're so and I buy whatever I'm buying sself like
(12:29):
crazy because they know exactly what I.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Want want, and I got annoyed to when I see it,
like I'm like, oh, they're showing me that dress again
and again and again.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
And it's so easy to hit accept all cookies though,
because you just want to see the website. But if
you just do the go, it's like whatever it is
edit setting. Literally it's one button and then it's no,
and then it doesn't see everything that you're doing. There
you go, and so I do that. It's such a
good tip to keep myself from buying as much crap
because it's really just crap.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Too, and that hurts your mental health. It's I guess
it's about the like the financial back of it, but
it's also like you're right, like it's like then you
have that poster that you didn't even really care for
and you're just like, cool, what do I do? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I got yeah, I got this baseball glove? Exactly am
I going to do? Did you ever have a like
a bottom, like a low where you're like, oh no,
I got to fix what I'm doing financially well.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
So I started as a comedian and so my first
job out of college was for David Letterman, and then
I got a job working for Lauren Michaels at his
digital production company called Above Average. And it was like
a coup of a job because you know, in comedy,
it's like you're you're out there for yourself, like there's
no like easy Street, there's no like corporate track to
(13:41):
lift yourself up if you really have to do it
just day by day, brick by brick, you know, on
your own. And so this felt like a cheat to
that because it was like, great, I'm going to be
in the you know, SNL ecosystem, and I have a
full time job, and we're going to like be put
in front of all these agents and managers and whatever
(14:03):
they're going to platform us. And this is sick. And
then so I like meant a lot to me to
have it. But I never had a full time job
because I'd been doing comedy up until that point, which
is all ten ninety nine work, or I'd been having
these part time jobs on top of it to keep
myself afloat, like I was a nanny. I worked at
a pilates studio like just whatever. I was making videos
(14:23):
on the side for companies, like just piecing it together
as we all do in our early twenties. And so
the first day of that job, where I really wanted
them to like me and like to go really well,
they asked me about like health insurance and four o
one ks and I was expected to know how to
read a paycheck and all these things, and I had
no idea, and I was so embarrassed, like truly, I
was humiliated, and so I sort of just like nodded,
(14:43):
pretended like I didn't think a four oh one k
was a road race, and went home and tried to learn.
And then what I found was the information for women
was so much about scarcity and deprivation, like literally about
like rewashing your paper towels or like never buy a
pre cut vegetable like or of course no avocado TOAs
(15:04):
no lattes, like just so much about depriving yourself and
that being like being good with money as a woman,
like whatever, that's not true at all, nothing about building
wealth or you know, negotiating or making money or anything
like that. And then the information firm that was more
like Maile centered was just by these guys who look
like they'd really never been through puberty, and they were
(15:24):
so boring and it was like so jargon heavy and
just didn't relate to me. And so what I realized
is like, Okay, I live in this world where everything
feels really like fun and aspirational, Like I love pup culture,
I love the Kardashians, I love Beyonce, Like I want
to be these women, right, But what if there was
a woman that I wanted to be who made it
feel aspirational to grow wealth and like to be good
(15:44):
with money and actually like you know, max out your
roth ira or you know, like negotiate your salary or
say no to a bacherette trip or you know, do
any of these things that are sort of pillars to
a financial life. And so I couldn't see her, so
I became her.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor,
and we're back on the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
And so that's when you realized you wanted to learn
more and educate yourself. Did you dive in?
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Well, that was like I was patient zero. So I
was like, Okay, that's how I'm going to learn. That's
what's going to interest me and then really what I did,
and you have the same story as me, where it's
like financial books are really the key to like starting
that financial journey. Like that's why I was so excited
to write a money book too, because to me, like
that is what propelled everything for me. I just read
(16:40):
so much and I became an expert through that.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I feel like there's so much bad advice on TikTok,
so much bad advice just people either saying things for
clicks or they're ill educated on what they're saying, like
even that they think they're right and they're wrong.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
You run into a lot of that.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Number said and they say it was such a gusto
that you're like, wait are they write? And they're given
like stock tips and they're you know, they're they're always
in their car and it's always like a nice car
that I'm sure is like they're in debt leasing and
like they have so much energy and enthusiasm as they're
telling you one hundred percent. But you have to be
so careful with financial advice online. What's crazy is that
(17:17):
the data shows that it's really working to have financial
advice online like gen Z is contributing to their four
O one case at a higher rate than any other generation,
and it's like, Okay, what sort of the difference. Could
it be that like they're just seeing more, they're more
financially literate because they have more access to it in
this way, I hope so. But I think it's also
really important to be discerning. And remember, you want your
(17:40):
life to be exciting. You want your relationship to be exciting.
You want like cool, exciting accessories and clothing and trips
and all this stuff. But getting rich should be boring.
So any person that you see online who's making it
seem really easy and really fast and really exciting, they're
the ones who are getting rich off of you.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
I have a lot of questions about debt.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yes, I'm your girl.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I was so afraid of debt my whole life because
I never wanted to owe anybody anything. I've never had debt.
I don't have debt in any anything now house. But
it was always that way, and so I always lived
extremely within my means, or I saved up and I
bought it because I did not want to have debt.
Now I have learned, and this is rational and irrational.
Fighting with each other to me, I've been taught that
(18:24):
not all debt is bad.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yes, exactly. So it's all about the seven percent rule.
Tell me that have you heard of this? I would
like for you to tell of course I have, but
tell them, okay, I'll tell you. Well, so you're saying
that you buy your house outright now.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
I have no debt yet. I also understand that some
debt is okay, but I'm still so scared of it.
And some debt I couldn't get a I couldn't get
a loan because I have no credit history and I
have a lot of money in the bank, but they
were like, we can't give you a loan because you
don't have a credit history at all. And so there
are also there's just tell me my debt's good, okay.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
So this is a classic like rich person versus normal
person thing where it's like, yeah, normal people are so
scared of debt. And also the financial advice, the old
rules of building wealth that we need to replace. We're
all about debt being so evil. Like Dave Ramsey is
this big pillar of financial literacy, and he literally has
a bell that people like drive like twenty hours to
(19:25):
come ring when they become debt free. Like the culture
is all about being debt free. But there's something called
the seven percent rule that rich people use to actually
leverage debt to make more money.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
But you have to be rich to use a seven
percent rule.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
No, but it it works if you have student any
So basically it's the seven percent rule is all about
your debt interest rate. So say I have student loans
that are five percent. The stock market historically returns eight
to ten percent annually, So if I'm going I would
make I would make more money paying the minimum on
(20:05):
that five percent and then investing whatever extra money that
I was going to put towards it to pay it
off aggressively in the stock market. Then I would save
by just paying off that loan. And this is why
you see celebrities have mortgages. Jay Z and Beyonce have
a mortgage. Mark Zuckerberg has a mortgage. Adele has a mortgage.
(20:28):
Why because they're borrowing money at a lower interest rate
than they could make investing it, and they're able to
turn a profit and grow wealth. And you can do
this too if you have low interest rate debt.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Okay, feel stupid.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Now, Well, I mean we should. We should REFI your house,
you're not at this point. But also, the one thing
to know about financial advice is yes, there's a there's
a right and the wrong way to do things, but
there's also a U way to do things. And I
think that we all come into this with our own gripes,
history and things that we're working through. And so it's like,
(21:03):
if what feels really safe to you and good?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
It's safe, it's a good word. Yeah, it's safe.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
You feel safe not having a mortgage. Sure, there might
be a way for you to make more money, but
it sounds like you have enough money. And if like
safe means more to you than extra zeros in your
bank account, that's okay.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
One of the habits I had to break was I
would pay bills a month extra in case I have
a rent out of money, so I'd have a month buffer.
And my business manager like, you have to start doing that,
But I was like, no, no, you don't understand. Like
back in the day, if you electricity got cut, you
(21:39):
were done. Yeah, She's like, electricity is not going to
get cut. I have the fear of mindset still in yeah,
where I've had to stop a lot of those habits. Yeah,
because I have somebody telling me, and I think you're
that somebody to a much younger generation.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Well, you're lucky that you have this business manager. It
sounds like she's been super helpful.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I pay her.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, but that's okay. People paying me buy my book.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
She gets that's good. Yeah, and the books has done fantastic. Yeah,
the book your best. They have to call you in
New York Times best seller. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I want to call you at it too, because it's
a tombstone thing. You're two acts, two times New York
Times that seller. Why does the latter? Why does the
goalpost always move? Now? I have one, and it's like,
ooh shit, I gotta do it again.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I almost didn't do it again. I didn't want to
write a sod.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
How long was it till you did it again? Four
years and you got a big fat deal.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Would you let me to tell you my story? I
would love you guys have to do with money?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, I love money. I love stories.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
You're my guest, so I wouldn't normally tell a long
story about me, but you are a money person, and
this is a money story. I think we will enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
I was pitching eight children's I had done a children's
music record. It got bought by Cracker Barrel, and so
I did this and I was like, oh, well, how
about that seems pretty easy. I'll do a kid's book.
And I had a few meetings with some publishers in
New York, and so I flew up to New York
and nobody wanted it because that kid's book market was
oversaturated and I wasn't famous enough, and so it was
(23:06):
a mixture of both of those things. And so I
had done two or three meetings and I went to
one final meeting at HarperCollins, which is a large book company.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yes familiar with, one of the big publishing houses.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And I pitched them the idea for the kids book
and they said that's not for us. But the meeting
that I pitched to there was someone in there who
was a hybrid working that worked in kids and also nonfiction,
and they said, hey, we love your life story. Would
you write it? And I said, I don't know, Like,
I'm not Michael Phelps, ye, not a Kardashian, I don't
(23:37):
know if anyone wants it. And she's like, if you'll
come tomorrow and pitch to a different group, we would
love to have you. And I was already flying back
home at the time. Only yeah, So I canceled my flight.
I stayed at extra night. I went back and I
pitched and they said, we love the book, and they
offered me like one hundred and eighty thousand dollars up front,
which was a really good advance. I felt, I don't
(24:00):
know what people make, especially to be I do. Now.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, I'm like, for you, like we could get to
hire maybe.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Well, I didn't know the difference, and I'd never written
a book, and I didn't think I deserved one hundred
and eighty thousand.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
And so I'm like, I said, no, I'm not going
to take the money, but let me write half the
book and if you still like it, I'll take your money. Wow,
then I'll finish the second. I've never written anything. I mean,
i've written blogs, yeah, but you know that's different.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
No.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Writing a book is so you have to have the
structure down and the whole thing. It's a lot.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
And I went home and I just wrote essay after
essay after essay, just about my life story. And I
turned in thirty thousand words and they said, we like it.
Will you take the money? Now, and so I took
the money.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
You're so funny.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
I didn't want the debt.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Money, so you didn't want that. You didn't want the debt.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Of the book to you didn't want the debt.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
He said, no, I'll show you I'm good for it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I was like, I want you to.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
You paid one month in advance.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I want you to actually believe that it's good by
me showing it to you, because I don't believe. Yeah,
I'm good. Yes, And so I wrote it. They paid me.
I then finished a book. It was number one for
four weeks, which.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Was four weeks number one.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Why I'll kill it, I'm telling you, is why I
did not believe.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Number one for four weeks? Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (25:09):
No, that's crazy. I agree. I was embarrassed before it
came out because I thought, and you know, the book
tour is it's grueling, it's grooling. I'm gonna do all
this book tour, nobody's gonna buy it and everyone just
gonna like laugh, and I'll never write anything again. And
so it did really well, and they were like, let's
do another one. We'll give you more money. I'm like,
I'm out. It ain't about the money. I'm out, I'm
(25:29):
a one hit wonder. I'm good. No, you did it.
And so I just number one for four weeks.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
For a second.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I don't sit with you.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Keep going.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I said no for three years or so. And then
I did a TED talk and it was called winning
by Losing and they said, write that and I said,
I don't know, and they said, here's a check. I said, okay,
I'll take that one up front. It was much it
was much more.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, I'm sure because you were you prove that you
could do it.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah. And then I didn't feel like I was stealing
their money and they were trying to convince me to
do I'd have to pitch them.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
And so then I wrote a book called fail until
You Don't and it it was two week number one.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Hill you Don't, great title, thank you, and it was
that it was very practical.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
And then I got my friends to write their failure
stories so smart that are that are super famous, like yeah, Charlottage,
the god who is one of my closest friends. So
he wrote it like a chapter in it. Wow, Chris Stapleton,
like all these artists, of these people that I it
was just like talk about your biggest failure that people
will have no idea, And so I wrote like eighty
(26:26):
five percent of it. It had some friends hop in and
do that, and then it did well and then I'm like,
I'm done. Then I wrote a kid's book and it
was it was good. But that was my book stories
that I wouldn't take the money because I was scared
to take the money because I didn't think I was
good enough.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
I mean, I totally get that. I think that, like
there's so much imposter syndrome when it comes to, you know,
taking checks, but you know, you sort of just have
to go with it, especially in this industry, because sometimes
the chucks are pretty big and you don't want you
don't want to pass them up.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
How did you negotiate your book deal? Well, we did.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
I played everyone against each other, which is always.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Good to you had multiple people. See I didn't have.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
No no But so I actually so what I initially
did my book deal. I wanted to do almost like
write like a Sex in the City or a girls,
like a story that was about girl, like four friends
in New York City starting out and like their money
journey and they have this mentor and like uh uh,
(27:25):
teach about money through that because I'm so much about
like having brownie, having spinach in the brownie, like trying
to find creative ways to teach finance that people would
be compelled by me.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Such I like that spinach in the brownie. I've never
heard that.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I think about that all the time because it's like
you want it to feel like a treat. Like That's
why I use so much humor and everything I do
and things like that, cause it's like you want it
to just feel like so palatable. And so I worked
so hard on this book. Deal. Uh, my friend Genevievan
Yellow I went to college with and she like writes
on hacks and is doing Jake Shane's show and like
is like such a big television writer shoes doing it
(28:00):
with me, And so we brought it out. I had
agents at UTA and couldn't really get more than like
hunter k for it, and they were like, okay, but
just so you know, if you just did the like
finance book, like the one oh one yeah missus dow
Jones book, you didn't like musty it up with like
all this flavor, you would get a lot more and
(28:22):
like probably help more people. And so I was like, Okay,
I get it, like I have to just start my
book journey with the one oh one. And it ended
up being so correct because I'm so happy that something
exists now that can take you from like wherever you're
starting to where you want to go and in such
a clear way, and like I'm sure there will be
another car reincarnation of that other part, like things always
(28:43):
find the way that they're supposed to happen, you know.
And so yeah, we brought it to a bunch of
publishing houses and played them against each other. And then
what was interesting is that like the four that I
really wanted to work with had the same offer number,
and which was sort of cool because then I could
really decide based on like who I actually wanted to
(29:05):
work with, versus having that in my head of like
like you know, if you get a job offer, you're
usually going to take the job with the most money,
you know, but you could actually I could actually just
decide on like who is the best people to work
with and so but I mean, all that strategy just
came from having good agents, which it sounds like you
have good coaches and people around you too, And I
really believe and I talk about this in the book,
(29:27):
investing in your human capital and like making sure that
you are, you know, making yourself as strong as you
can be, and that can also mean who you're working with.
But I also say, on the topic of failure, it's
crazy to be a New York Times bestseller because it
was so hard to do this, and so it's fun.
Like now I've been like a week of doing it,
and I find myself everything that I'm saying in response
(29:48):
to people saying, Wow, that's great, this is so cool,
it's just like this is really hard, you know, and
it's like I love that that was what your book
was about, because I'm like, it's so important. You just
see the shiny moment and people it's the same thing
with the influencer with the cool outfit that you want
to buy. Like you get this like really small moment
that you're seeing and you don't realize all that goes
(30:10):
into it. That's like a lot of grit.
Speaker 5 (30:13):
The Bobby cast will be right back. This is the
Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
What do you think has been the element in your
book that most people have resonated with so much so
they've told you.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I will say, well, I have a bunch of stories,
and I think that the stories around so for women,
especially having an emergency fund is really important, which is
basically like this three to six month sort of pot
of gold that you keep in a high heeled savings
account of bare bones living expenses, and it really gives
you the power to say no and to like walk
(30:54):
away from situations that don't serve you. And so I
have a story in the book of Most of the
people in the BOOKO I interview were followers, but this
was actually my friend and she was in an abusive
relationship and everything on the surface looked really great and
sort of in like that mid thirties way that can happen,
(31:14):
I think, especially to women where you were sort of like, ooh,
all my friends are getting married. You know, this guy's tall,
we WoT a dog together, we're living together. Is it
that bad? Maybe? Is there anyone out there for me
that's better?
Speaker 2 (31:25):
You know, you got this guy's tall.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
This guy's tall. Tall can really mess with your head.
Man like tall and a dog. The dog's name was Matilda.
Come on, man, like, those are some good things going
for you. And she pushed her around a little, but
I mean she's trying to see past it. But anyways,
(31:48):
it did get to a breaking point where she was like, oops,
gotta go, and how'd she leave with the emergency fund?
And she had she got her freedom apartment, so she
calls it. It took her over a year to rebuild
in the emergency fund, but it was like that gave
her the power to say no. And so I think
that resonates with a lot of people. Yeah. And I
(32:10):
also yet.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
If people want to invest in stocks, because something like
robinhood is so easy to just download or whatever the
app is. I'm not sponsored by anyone, so I Robin
free Agent. Yeah. So like how does someone get started,
like and what should they invest in?
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Yeah, so it's actually so easy. I always say it's
like basically take seventh grade math some like just bravery
because most people are so scared of doing it wrong
and automation and you can start investing. And so I
really recommend low cost index funds, which are basically these
like big baskets of stocks. And so what that means
(32:46):
is you're not going all in, Like for you, Okay,
you have this investment in Waterloo. If Waterloo tanks, that
money is gone gone.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
But if you have a low cost index fund like
say buy the S and P five hundred. I'm buying
a little piece of five hundred of the biggest companies
in America. So if one of those, say is Waterloo,
when they go under, I've got four hundred and ninety
nine other stocks to bring the next fund back up
and get me to those eight to ten percent returns.
And all the data shows this is like the most
(33:18):
effective way to invest for the long term. And so
I don't really know why people mess around with like
day trading and buying individual stocks, because all the data
shows that you're never really going to beat the market,
like even active traders don't really beat the market. And
so I would say, yeah, two to three locals index
funds I have on my website at missus Dow Jones
dot com, like my low cost index fund guide that
(33:40):
has all the index funds that I like, And all
that you need to do is buy two to three
and automate that investment every month, and then you will
literally your wealth will be compounding and growing and you
ten twenty thirty years from now will have millions of dollars.
It's that simple.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
How do you feel about cryptocurrency?
Speaker 1 (33:58):
I like to look at it as like a accessory
to a portfolio, you know, not the main event, like
I think with a stock. With your investment portfolio, you
can take like five to ten percent if you want
and be experimental, buy Crypto, buy Waterloo, you know, do
the thing whatever, Like your cousin gives you a tip,
(34:20):
go for it. But the ninety percent of that portfolio
should be in low cost index funds so that you
have your own back, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
So you said earlier, and of course.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
There's always ways to get rich quick, right, and everything
looks better in hindsight, you know. So you see Crypto
when it's up and you're like, shit, I should have
bought it, and it gives you that fomo feeling, but
you should like it's not. I wish I had a
crystal ball. I don't, but all I do have is
like the data, and that shows if I buy low
cost index funds, I'm probably going to get eight to
ten percent returns and that in twenty or thirty years,
(34:53):
like that's going to make me a shit ton of money.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
So you said earlier, be boring, make more money, but
index funds are very boring.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yeah, it's an but you're gambling and investing are not
the same thing, right.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
So that's very boring, which means you're gonna make yeah,
probably more money, right Like yeah, overall, macro speaking, you
might have a stock or too that pops, so you're
gonna have something that fall if you're buying individual stocks.
But if you're doing, like you said, an index fund
of the sort, what do you call them? A low
cost index contentive fun Yeah, uh, that is generally ones
(35:24):
that succeed more. That's what you're saying, dude. Like if
you buy the SP five hundred, pretty successful rate year over.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Year, Yeah, the eight percent, got it, and like over
twenty years, like there's like a ninety nine percent chance
that you're making money.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Oh it's that high.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yeah, it's insane because if that's INP five hundred goes down,
those are the top five hundred companies in America. So
it's like it's pretty much armageddon.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Like it's not like we all dying.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah, it's like okay, like go on your bunker, babe,
Like I'm not sure the stock portfolio is really the
issue here, Like pretty sure, Like we got bigger fish
to fry, so you know, like you're pretty safe.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
I'm genuinely asking these questions, like I don't know the answers. No,
I'm loving I'm not being the I am the dumb
guy when it comes to things like this.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
No, I love it because.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
I didn't learn it, and then once I could have
learned it, I had somebody doing it for me.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Yeah, which is also a way to do it.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
You say, invest in human human capital?
Speaker 1 (36:15):
How do you do that?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
What capital?
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah? Like how do you make yourself better at what
you do? Like, you're clearly really good at what you do? Like,
you touched a lot of things and they've turned to gold.
Where do you think that comes from?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I've also touched a lot of things and they have
not turned to gold.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah. But like doing a Ted talk and having it
pop the fuck off, Like that's okay, curse, okay, fuck.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Shit, get them all out, get them all out.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I was gonna say a worse one, but I'm a lady.
No the P word.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Oh, that one's not bad as the C word.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Do both? I don't want to, though, I'm scared.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
I prom I well, I don't know the question now.
After after that, I'm sure, uh oh human capital?
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Yeah, okay, Like about having a ted talk that pops
the fuck off Like that's no, Like what that's crazy?
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah, it did pretty good. I don't know that it
popped super hard, but it did pretty good enough to
where my book company was like, that's what you should write.
But how I invest in human capital is I find
people that I think have a great energy and a
great work ethic, and I believe they can then learn
anything I need them to learn.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
That's so great.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
I love that all of depending on what part of
my business, for example, like my radio show, my national
my syndicated show, they're all my friends of the love,
I hired all my friends because they made me better.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yeah, no, I hired my best friend to work with
me too.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
And you know, there's certain there are some good things,
and there are things you have to work through to
hire your friends, for sure. But then even in like
my other business, like we have you know, this podcast
on Netflix and I have a whole crew and they're
all my friends too that you know have worked with
me in other parts of my job, who I know
have a like great work ethic, massive energy. And then
(37:53):
also I know they're able to learn because I've seen
them learn in other ways and having them around me,
make me feel good, make me perform better. That's my
human capital. So I like investing in those people.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
You like investing in your in like people around you
who can make you look good, and like.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Make me feel good. Feel good, I feel good. Everything
else goes right. If I feel good, I play good.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
I love that. But do you ever do things like
you have like a vocal cultu or like a like
a mindset person.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
A trainer at therapists?
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yeah, exactly, Like so that's that's also like human capital too,
where it's like you have to fine tune yourself so
that when you get out on the field and you
do play, you're the best version of yourself. And by
the way, I'm obsessed with having a trainer. I think
that when you are busy, it is so hard to
get your ass to the gym.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
That's the best part about it. It's not even there
teaching you what to do. It's you're now dedicated at
that time because you're paying that money.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Like you think I would ever do a lunge if
someone was paying someone like a lune Absolutely not. That's
not on the menu for me. So maybe a walk to.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Keep yourself healthy. Another thing would be like things I
do to keep myself healthy peptide.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Yeah, so that's what you mean by.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
That plasma I could see you doing.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Plasma blow spinning.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, I could you spinning.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Prp Oh. Yes, all the letters Okay.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
I love it. I surprised I don't have an IV right.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Here, got letters? I are probably staking in my bodies.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Okay, I love the season two. Maybe you've got some
needles going.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
So that's what you mean by human capital, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Like things that you do like I think, well, okay,
so like say you're uh starting your career, you might
feel like you're just like on this hodonic treadmill and
like nothing's really working and whatever. But like if you
invest in your skill, like people who are so scared
of AI, right, I doesn't take all my jobs whatever.
The people who win, they are gonna be the ones
who know how to use it. So instead of being
(39:42):
scared of AI, learn how to use it, get really
good at it. Things like that where you put yourself
in the position to win because you invest in making
yourself better. I think that you are your best investment always.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
I completely agree. I think you and the people you
surround yourself to totally like you are your environment. So
and if your environment ain't good, you ain't gonna be
good for long. Like you might be good for a minute,
but you're not gonna be good for long. Yeah, So
I completely subscribe to your theory.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah, one bad Apple ruin the bunch? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Would you have any content early that popped off so
hard they kind of told you were going in the
right direction?
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Such a question. I am not an overnight success. I
don't know if that's your journey. But for me, I
have been grinding for like nine years. There's certainly been
content that really pushed me to the next level. Like
I did a video about Remember I don't know if
this was came across your desk, but when Beyonce was
on tour, she was every her daughter was dancing with
(40:38):
her every weekend, and the internet would go crazy, like
analyzing Blue Ivy Beyonce's daughters dance moves and is she
and Nepo baby, is she even good? La? And like
and Blue invested in her own human capital actually and
like worked really hard to get better. So if you
see the videos from the beginning of the tour to
the end, she's like, she's like pro by the end,
(41:00):
which is I mean just an aside, but I made
a video about custodial rothy raise connected to that, which
are these investment accounts that you can open for children
who have taxable income, which, of course, if you're dancing
on a tour, whether or not it's your mother's tour
or not, you have taxable income. And I showed how
(41:21):
much money you could make by doing that through telling
the story of Blue Ivy that, of course the whole
Internet was aware of because every weekend she's performing and
then there's a discourse, and you know, it was right
in the culture pop but it was the perfect Missus
dow Jones moment of taking the pop culture and using
it to tell you something about money.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Spinach in the Brownie.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Spinach and the Brownie Baby, and that was insane. That
was like three hundred thousand followers, Yeah, three hundred thousand followers,
like push me really quickly to a million. That video
got like thirteen million views. But instead of just getting
the views and sometimes the video is viral and nothing happens,
(42:04):
it actually grew me. So that's one that I think about,
But I think everything else is just one foot in
front of the other. And like you said, so many failures.
Like that's one video that worked. Guess what, there were
like one hundred other videos that didn't work that broke
my heart that I worked just as hard on. So
you can't, you know, ever figure out what's going to hit.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Well, congratulations, it's fantastic, Thank you, future rich person. Here
it is. I'm gonna show all the cameras so nice.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
I feel so lucky I get to sit down with you.
I'm such a big fan you.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
No, did stop.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
It's true you did.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
I know your content. I'm not even gonna challenge you.
I'm just gonna say thank you. My therapist says I
should say thank you when people say something, and not
like you're lying.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
No, I do that too. You reflect.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Yeah, you're like, oh, Bobby, I like you. You're lying.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
No, Bobby, I like you and you're lying.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Okay, here's the book. It is a New York Times bestseller. Hayley,
thank you so much. And I will continue to consume
your content tent so nice. Me too, ditto, She'll consume
our content to perfect All right, there it is you guys,
get the book.
Speaker 5 (43:07):
Thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production
Host
Bobby Bones
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