August 27, 2026 • 41 mins
For episode 666, Bobby dives into some of the darkest myths and wildest conspiracy theories in music history. He breaks down the legend of Robert Johnson supposedly selling his soul to the devil at the crossroads, why virtuoso musicians were once accused of being possessed, and how Jimmy Page and Led Zeppelin became tied to satanic rumors. Bobby also gets into the strange theories surrounding “Hotel California,” the infamous “Paul is dead” Beatles conspiracy, backward masking hysteria, and whether there’s really anything sinister behind the 27 Club. Along the way, he separates the stories from what actually happened and looks at why people have always been so quick to connect great music with something darker.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey everybody, welcome to episode 666 of the Bobbycast and
we really didn't have a guest in mind and we
also felt like it would be disingenuous for us to
do an interview and then post the 666 up in
the corner like we do every episode so we are
(00:23):
not having a guest on this. Instead we are doing
something a bit special and you're going to hear me
talk about it. It's basically the history of the devil
and the devil in music, where we talk about everything
from backward masking to people claiming they met the devil,
et cetera. You're going to hear me explain all of that,
but we didn't want to put anyone on this. So
here you go. Episode 666. Enjoy. Welcome to this episode,
(00:48):
the devil and the music, stories, rumors, and falsehoods. So
why does the devil keep showing up in music? So
the file number for this is If you're listening to
the audio version is 666. So instead of avoiding it,
we're going to go right to it. And obviously no
(01:10):
artist would have wanted to be episode 666. So I
thought we'd take this time to talk about the devil
in music. For hundreds of years, there's been this weird
connection between great musicians and the devil. That's what I'm
supposed to be. If you guys are listening and you're
not watching, I'm rocking a devil outfit right now. I
(01:32):
got on a little red bow tie. I got on
a cape. I got on that thing that goes over
your head that pulls your hair back, except with devil ears.
I kind of look like Problem Child from back in
the late 80s, early 90s, but it's supposed to be
the devil. So let's talk about it in music. And
I'm not saying that the people we're going to talk
about were Satanists in any way. A lot of times
(01:53):
it was just marketing. Heck, most, if not all, weren't.
And some of these stories were completely invented, not even
by the artists that I'm going to talk about, but
by either their record company or just rumors that started
to spread about them. That's what's crazy. We have these
connections to some of these artists and the devil, and
(02:16):
they had nothing to do with it. Actually, some of
them couldn't shake it. And also they wanted to, but
then just realized, I guess we'll just go with this.
We're making money anyway. Some of these were rumors that
got repeated so many times that people started treating them
as real life history. But occasionally, there was an artist
(02:37):
that became fascinated with the occult, which made the rumors explode.
So what I find interesting mostly is this is way
before even rock and roll. Before Ozzy, before Led Zeppelin,
before the Beatles, before Robert Johnson, before... Any of the
music that we know as having a relationship with the devil,
(02:58):
classical musicians were rumored to be getting abilities from the devil.
And so when I dove in, I was surprised at
what I learned about this. There was almost a formula.
Someone becomes unbelievably talented. People pretty much can't explain how
they're doing it. The artist is mysterious or behaves differently,
(03:19):
which a lot of times they only do that because
they're an artist. And you know what? Artists are just weird.
And then something tragic happens. And eventually somebody says, they
must have made a deal with the devil. So these
are the stories behind those stories. And for me, when
I thought about who I would start with, it was easy.
(03:42):
It was Robert Johnson and the Crossroads legend. Now, this
is probably the most famous of the sold his soul
to the devil stories, at least in American music. Robert Johnson,
to give you a little background, was a Mississippi Delta
Blues musician born in 1911. The legend basically goes, he
(04:02):
wanted to be a great blues guitarist. But early on, supposedly,
he wasn't very good. And supposedly, and I'm not going
to say that over and over again, but just remember,
there's pretty much a supposedly in most of this. But
other musicians remembered This young guy trying to sit in
with him, and he was not impressive. Actually, he was
(04:24):
quite annoying. Then, Robert Johnson disappeared for a period of time.
There was no record of where he went, just that
he was gone. And eventually, he comes back. And suddenly, man,
can he play. And not just slightly better, according to
the legend, he transformed into an incredible guitarist. And people
(04:46):
couldn't understand how someone could improve so dramatically. So the
story developed that Robert Johnson went to a crossroads in
Mississippi at midnight. And while he was there, he was
supposedly met there by a mysterious man, eventually identified in
the folklore as the devil. And according to people that
(05:10):
heard the story, Robert Johnson handed him his guitar and
the devil tuned it. Sounds like a guitar tech to me.
But the devil tuned his guitar at the crossroads and
then gives it back. And in exchange for Robert Johnson's soul,
he was given supernatural ability to play the blues. And
(05:32):
people believe that. You can look at the song titles
of Robert Johnson records like Crossroad Blues, Me and the
Devil Blues, Hell Hound on My Tail, And if you're
already looking for a Satan story, there's one right there.
In Crossroad Blues, Robert Johnson sings about being at a
(05:52):
crossroads and falling to his knees. In Me and the
Devil Blues, he's literally singing about the devil walking beside him.
So after he dies, people start taking the songs as
confessions more than just a guy that was making art
or analogies where the devil could have been, well, really
anyone or anything that was treating them poorly. So here's
(06:15):
what was actually true about this. I feel so stupid
saying this. There was no reliable, credible evidence that Robert
Johnson hung out with the devil on the railroad track.
That's a stupid thing to have to say. People claimed
he went to the crossroads. They don't even know if
he was at a crossroads. They claimed he met Satan.
(06:36):
There were no footprints from Satan. They claimed he sold
his soul.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Nope.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
The Smithsonian has specifically described the devil bargain as myth.
I got seven clicks deep on this, and this is
what I think happened. I think that Robert Johnson just
got really good. That time away, he just got really good.
He worked really hard to become a great musician, and
(07:04):
because he was so good, people started to go, there's
no way that blues player without much of an education,
could be that good. And so, that's what I think happened.
People who weren't as good as him needed an excuse
because he was now better than them. And they were
freaking losers. And they created this story because they were
(07:26):
losers and now Robert Johnson was better than they were. Now,
during the period where Robert Johnson supposedly disappeared, he spent
time around a guitarist named Isaiah Zimmerman. Zimmerman was a
very accomplished player and Robert Johnson's style was started to
be a little derivative of him. Now I'm not saying
it was only Zimmerman that he knew how to play,
(07:49):
but there were definitely some techniques that the two shared.
And so another part of it was that they would
practice at night and they would practice in a field
that was near a cemetery at times, because that was
the land where they were able to practice. And there
were no satanic rituals there. They just wanted to be
out there. So they didn't bother anybody. But imagine if
(08:10):
you're just a loser and this guy shows up and
is now better than you and you're not the best
player in town anymore and you have to have an excuse.
You go, I think he sold his soul to the devil.
But imagine hearing that story. A guy disappears. Practices guitar
in graveyards. Is unbelievably good. Sings about the devil. Dies young.
Of course, someone would create a supernatural explanation. So, Robert Johnson...
(08:35):
the guy that people associate with the devil, actually, and
I'll say this, never met the devil. He died in 1938.
He was only 27 years old. So even his death
isn't completely settled historically. The most famous account there was
he was involved with a married woman and was poisoned
by a jealous husband, possibly through poisoned whiskey. And even
that story gets debated. But now you got mysterious man,
(08:58):
devil songs, crossroads, sudden talent, mysterious death, all gone at
age 27. And he later becomes a member of the
27 Club, which I'll bring up later. The craziest part,
Robert Johnson may have gotten somebody else's devil story attached
to him because there's another blues musician. Let's go back.
(09:20):
Tommy Johnson. I think this is the original Crossroads story
that they just pinned on Robert Johnson. Tommy Johnson too.
No relation, by the way. Tommy Johnson was older. He
was born in the 1890s. He was already an established
musician before Robert Johnson became famous. According to Tommy Johnson's brother,
Tommy told people the exact story that became attached to Robert.
(09:45):
And so Tommy's version was this. If you want to
learn to play guitar, take your guitar, go to the crossroads,
go there around midnight, sit there and learn to play. Eventually,
a mysterious man comes up and takes your guitar, tunes it,
play something, hands it back. And then after the That's
what he would say. And the implication there is by
giving your guitar over, you gave your soul to the devil. Now,
this story does have a more direct connection to the
crossroads bargain because in his story, he was like, just
literally go to the crossroads. So Tommy Johnson has this story.
(10:18):
Robert Johnson becomes more famous than Tommy Johnson. Robert also
records a song called Crossroads Blues, so then it's Robert
Johnson's story. So even the movie Oh Brother, We're Out
There uses this mythology. So there's a character in that
who said he sold his soul to the devil in exchange,
and that was based on Tommy Johnson's story. But that's
(10:41):
not even the first story. And as I kept digging,
there was a guy... Niccolo Paginini, 100 years earlier. He
was born in Italy in 1782. Think of him as
the Eddie Van Halen, Jimi Hendrix, but of the violin.
He was doing things with the violin that people really
weren't doing then, that people didn't think were possible. His
(11:05):
technique was so far beyond. He had a style. You
could hear him. People could not replicate what he was doing.
Audiences were even I don't want to say scared, but
it was so new to them what he was doing
that they thought there was something possessing him because there
was no explanation for it. So as I mentioned earlier,
the explanation was there's got to be something supernatural going on. Also,
(11:26):
he looked apart. He wasn't dressed like me exactly, but
he was extremely thin and pale skinned. He had like
sunken cheeks, long dark hair. He had really long fingers
and they would often talk about his fingers and how
they were long and they resembled the devil. But he
also was able to use them to play violin really well.
Like he had perfect violin fingers. The Library of Congress
(11:48):
has historical characters of this Paginini guy surrounded by demons
and witches because so many people thought of him as
a demon, as a sorcerer, as a wizard. He was
described by all of this and these ancient, I guess
not ancient, but these late 1800s like journals that people
would keep. Eventually the rumor was because he looked like
(12:10):
that and he was that good, he couldn't be that
good except for the devil giving him the abilities, which
is crazy. He also learned of this and was really
one of the first people to, I don't want to
say embrace it because he didn't create it, but he
realized that people were showing up to see the guy
that was possessed. So He understood not only playing violin,
(12:33):
but he understood theater. At performances in Paris, he would
darken the stage and then he would come out to
just a single light. And back then the light wasn't
a big, you know, light coming like a strobe light
or it was basically candles. And he would come out
in 1831, no electricity, no giant LED wall, no pyro,
(12:57):
no streaming services, just him. talking creepily like a vampire,
and then just play the crap out of the violin.
So people thought something was wrong with him, and he
played into it. He was not satanically gifted. He was
just an extraordinary musician. He developed and taught a technique
(13:19):
that changed violin performances even for people today. He has
something called 24 Caprices, and I think that's how you
say it, but it is still a very demanding and
extraordinary piece. But when music ability becomes difficult to comprehend,
people go, there must be something extra there. Not hard work,
not the foresight to see a new path to make
(13:41):
it really cool. The devil. And so that's really, I think,
where the Robert Johnson story goes back to. Robert Johnson
gets all the credit because he was kind of the
most famous. Tommy Johnson is the original with the story.
And you got the guy here who plays the crap
out of the fiddle, Niccolo Pagini. who was kind of
that guy. Now, I'm going to give you one more
(14:04):
old school one. This is the knowledge part of the show.
So there's a guy named Giuseppe Tartini. And this one's
even better because this guy really created the whole story
where the other ones didn't. So he was another Italian violinist,
but he was born in 1692. So we're going back
300 years here. Now, this is his story that he
would tell people. He described having this incredible... vivid at
(14:31):
times dark at times um he didn't use the word
satanic he would use words like scary and demonic but
it would be a dream and in the dream he
made a pact with the devil and the devil then
becomes his servant and eventually he hands the devil his
(14:51):
violin the devil starts playing now this is all in
his dream the music he hears the devil play is
astonishing It was technically more beautiful than anything he's heard before.
And so he wakes up, boom, from the dream. He
grabs his violin and he tries to recreate what the
devil played for him in his dream. And what he
(15:13):
had recreated, it was called the Devil's Trill Sonata. He
supposedly felt what he actually wrote wasn't even close to
what he'd heard in the dream. But imagine that, that
the most famous piece that you write, that people still
know about 300 years later, 400 years later, is something
that you dreamed about with the devil. Now, did he
really dream about the devil? I don't know. The guy
(15:35):
just could have been playing it up. But he would
always say, yeah, if you think that was good, you
should have heard the devil play it. So Robert Johnson folklore, Paginini,
he built off the rumors around him. And then Tartini
was a dream that he would tell himself. And so
(15:55):
There you have it. It also sounds like the devil
went down to Georgia in that guy's dream because the
devil challenges Johnny to a fiddle competition. I mean, even
that song is kind of this, but in that one,
Johnny wins.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
All right.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
So there we have it. That's about 14 minutes of
the early history of the devil in music. Now I'm
going to get to some more contemporary stuff, but I
feel like without knowing about the early stuff, this stuff
doesn't make as much sense. And also when someone says
Robert Johnson sold a soul to the devil at the crossroads,
be like, actually that was Tommy Johnson. Actually, it was
an Italian violinist because it all roots back. Also to
(16:30):
people not understanding that some people just work hard or
have a really great gift.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Hang tight. The Bobby cast will be right back. And
we're back on the Bobby cast.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Let's go to Led Zeppelin. And let's go to Jimmy Page.
This is kind of where fact and rumor collide. So
there is a bit of a documented occult connection here. Now,
that does not mean that Jimmy Page worships Satan. It
does mean that Jimmy Page had a serious fascination with
the occult. So Jimmy Page became fascinated with Aleister Crowley.
(17:16):
Crowley was an English occultist born in the late 1800s.
deliberately provocative. He wrote about magic and mysticism and yeah,
of the figures in the 20th century. So the 1900s,
they were famous by the 1900s. Like he was probably
the LeBron of it. And so the British newspapers would
(17:37):
talk about him back in the day, say it was wicked.
It was very much part of counterculture. And I'm still
talking about Aleister Crowley at this point. Jimmy Page of
Led Zeppelin was super interested. He collected books and artifacts.
He studied his writings. He eventually bought this place called
Boleskine House in Scotland. So Alistair Crowley had owned this
(17:58):
Boleskine House. And Crowley had used the property while attempting
to do things like channel the devil. So imagine you're
a rock fan in the 70s. And Led Zeppelin is enormous, mysterious.
I mean... very sexual, and they were making really heavy music.
(18:19):
And then you find out their guitarist bought Aleister Crowley's
old house. That all kind of plays into it, right?
You would think these guys play this crazy hard music.
The lead singer kind of sounds like the devil with his,
I mean, the rumors practically write themselves. And the rumor
(18:40):
was a packed rumor. One of the legends that developed
was that members of Led Zeppelin had entered some sort
of package with the occult in exchange for success. Very
familiar if you listened to the Robert Johnson story earlier.
There was no solid evidence that happened. I'd always grown
up hearing that Led Zeppelin had sold their soul to
the devil for their fame, and that's where this comes from.
And with that, when you sell your soul to the devil...
(19:02):
There's always bad things that happen afterward. It's not just
the devil gets your soul, but things around you, tragic,
must happen just to remind you that you sold your
soul to the devil. So 1975, Robert Plant suffers a
devastating car crash. Robert Plant's five-year-old son died in 1977.
John Bonham, the drummer, died in 1980. Now to somebody
(19:25):
that was already convinced that Led Zeppelin had made a bargain,
a deal with the devil, these tragedies became... Ah, looks
like prices come and do. But there's no evidence. It's mythology.
And that's how these stories start to grow. Now, Jimmy
Page is different than Robert Johnson. The difference is Robert
Johnson really never claimed of the devil bargain. Jimmy Page
(19:49):
was inspired. interested in learning about the occult, not even
being an occultist himself. With that, there was a little
factual seed. And around that, the story of Led Zeppelin
selling their soul to the devil. Also, Stairway to Heaven,
one of the greatest songs ever. One of the largest
examples of backward masking hysteria. Now back masking is you
(20:14):
can just play a song backward and it would say
something if you played it backward. So the thought was
artists could record a song but strategically make whatever you're
saying forward say really bad things if you played it backward.
If you listen to it normally and you're just listening
consciously you wouldn't hear it but your subconscious supposedly would
receive the message of the devil and in the 70s
(20:35):
and the 80s people were convinced rock bands were doing
this that they were putting in sexual messages and Satanic messages,
drug messages, um, all into the records backwards. So you
put on a record player and you just pull it
backward and it would say something. And if you've ever
heard any of this, and this is not a real example,
but let's say you thought it said, uh, the dog
(20:56):
won't stop barking and you played it backward and it went,
you would hear it like that and go, yep. I
said it. The dog won't stop barking. It was never
super clear, but Stairway to Heaven became one of the
biggest targets. Now, people started playing it backward because they
knew of the relationship they had with supposedly the devil,
and they were now claiming that this record had phrases
(21:19):
praising Satan if you played it backward. Religious groups played these.
Churches played these. Radio shows talked about these. It becomes
part of a larger satanic panic in the mid to
late 70s. The problem is, Humans are really good at
finding patterns. So once somebody tells us what we're supposed
(21:40):
to hear, we go and find it, even if it's
not really there. If I play a garbled sound for you,
you'll probably hear nothing. But if I put a sentence
on a screen, I say, listen for this, suddenly you're
going to be, oh, wait, I think I heard it.
So our brains find meaningful patterns and ambiguous sound. And
(22:02):
that's really what was happening here, at least until later,
because some people did start to do it. I won't
say as a joke, but they realized that it would
get them some attention and some press. But Led Zeppelin
denied it. They said, we did not put any satanic
messages backward in our songs. Robert Plant was irritated because
Stairway meant something to him. That song was a message
(22:24):
from him that meant something completely different. It's something that
was satanic. So if I played it backward for you
and you didn't know what you were supposed to hear,
you wouldn't hear it. If I played it backward and
then just gave you three or four things you were
supposed to hear, I think you'd hear all of them.
You ever hear Green Needle? You ever hear that thing
where some people hear Green Needle, Porcupine, or whatever? That's
(22:46):
basically what was happening here. So if you're asking me,
Led Zeppelin, just a band who liked to rock real hard,
and Jimmy Page was just really interested in another artist's work.
It just happened to be a little weird. Let's go
to the Eagles. Hotel California. Here's another song because it
(23:09):
was so ambiguous. It created an enormous conspiracy theory about
the devil. Hotel California, amazing song. Comes out in 1976.
The song is kind of creepy if you're just listening
and inserting what you think it means because there is
a mysterious hotel. There are voices in the night. There
are people who can't escape the hotel because you can
(23:31):
never leave. There is strange imagery. There's the beast. And again,
that idea where you can check out, but you can
never leave. I mean, that right there is perfect conspiracy
theory material. So let's go to the satanic theory. A
rumor develops that the Hotel California actually was connected to
(23:52):
Anton LaVey and the Church of Satan. So LaVey founded
this church in San Francisco in 1966. So this is
what the people were claiming back then. Hotel California That
specific hotel was a satanic church. The lyrics, according to them,
describe satanic rituals. The beast obviously was, you say it, Satan.
(24:13):
And even Anton LaVey appeared in the album artwork. None
of that is actually true. There is no evidence behind that.
And so the Eagles have talked about it individually. Don
Henley has repeatedly described the song in different ways. His version,
which I watched three interviews with, It's about the dark
(24:35):
side of the American dream. Excess, basically. Decadence. And how
they were going through this. Like all of a sudden,
here they are now with money and women and drugs.
And you think this is what you want. Then you
get it. And it turns out it's also kind of
tragic what you were wanting and how the people are
on the good side. And it's not even the good side.
It's the bad side. It's the scary side. How the
music business is awful. The transition from innocence where you
(24:58):
know nothing and you're moving out to LA to make
music to experience. But that experience... was sad or scary
or tragic. And so California becomes the symbol. Like you
arrive as they did chasing fame and money and beauty,
success and pleasure. And those things maybe aren't as good
(25:21):
as you thought they were once you get them, or
you get them once and you want to chase that
high again. And they never actually make you feel as
good as they did the first time. So the line
you can check out anytime you like, but you can
never leave. Man, it's way more interesting if it's Satan's Hotel,
isn't it? It just makes you go, dang. The actual
(25:43):
meaning of the song is dark, though. That's the irony
of Hotel California. It didn't need to be about Satan
for it to be dark. It is dark. You don't
need Satan. The song is that you finally got everything
you thought you wanted. It's not near as good as
you thought it was, and now you're trapped by it.
You can add addiction to part of that. So Hotel
(26:04):
California is not about Satan. It is not a satanic hotel.
And the guy that started the Church of the Devil
is not in the album artwork. Let's go to the Beatles.
Paul is dead. And then imagery from the occult. Now
this isn't exactly a Satan story, but it may be
(26:24):
the greatest example of people turning music into a giant
conspiracy theory. Now the theory is, and we can start
with 1969 because the rumor explodes in 69 that Paul
McCartney is dead. And there are such good YouTube videos
on this. I fully believe the earth is round. But
if you watch enough flat earth videos, you'll go, huh,
(26:48):
these guys might be onto something. They're not. The same
thing with these Paul is dead videos. If you watch
enough of them, because they're only giving you parts of
the story, you'll start to go, huh, maybe Paul is dead.
So according to the theory, Paul died in a car
crash in 1966. Yes, Paul McCartney. The Beatles, because they
were so famous, secretly replaced him with a lookalike. Then
(27:11):
because they felt guilty or because they wanted fans to know,
they're diehard fans, they hid clues that Paul was still
alive because that's what you would do. You know as
well as I do, if you were trying to hide
that somebody was dead so you could keep making millions
of dollars, there would be no clues or no hints
in anything But they had clues supposedly in songs, in
album covers, in lyrics, in backward recordings. And there were
(27:38):
so many clues. The fans began studying everything. Abbey Road
becomes a supposed funeral procession. And if you've seen the
picture of them walking, John's in white, which would mean
he would be the preacher. Ringo's in black, and so
he's mourning. George is in denim. You really got to
stretch for this one. But he was a gravedigger. And
(27:59):
Paul's barefoot. He's not wearing shoes. And so since he's
barefoot in the picture, he is obviously dead. He's a corpse.
Paul is also out of step with the others. He's
holding a cigarette in his right hand, even though he's left-handed.
I'm just walking you through some of these crazy things.
There's a Volkswagen Beetle in the background with a license
(28:20):
plate that appears to say 28IF. Now, if you were
thinking to yourself, 28IF, And I'm going to stall this
out for a second. What would you think 2-8-I-F meant?
You see a license plate and you had to actually
create some sort of conspiracy theory. 2-8-I-F. That would be
(28:43):
28 if he lived. The math itself also has problems.
Paul wasn't actually 28 when Abbey Road came out. but
that's not how conspiracy theories work. They just work because
you can say anything and some people will believe them
and then they'll spread it. And the next thing you know,
a lot more people believe them. Every coincidence then becomes evidence.
And there was a lot of playing records backward as well.
(29:07):
And Paul is dead. You would hear that, but I,
and again, I've heard it and it sounds very similar
to the words Paul is dead and I just believe
if you dug through enough albums, you would probably find
something that sounded like, oh, he is dead with the Beatles.
(29:30):
They put out so much music. Avril Lavigne supposedly is dead, too.
I don't know if you guys have heard that story,
but Avril Lavigne supposedly died and her record label replaced her.
with this new girl that's been Avril Lavigne for the
past I guess it'd be 20 years or so now
and so I'd heard this and Avril Lavigne was at
(29:50):
Dancing with the Stars for one of the shows that
I was doing she was performing that night and I'd
known that Avril Lavigne was supposedly dead and replaced with
someone else just like Paul McCartney and I yelled out
Avril's fake name, and she didn't turn. And that's how
I knew it was the real Avril Lavigne. So there
you go. Look, in the end, of all the research
(30:13):
that I've done, and trust me, I spent a lot
of time doing this, so much that I started to believe, hey,
maybe there is some devil there. There is no devil.
At least not giving anybody any sort of skill. You
did have weirdos like Judas Priest which, Judas Priest was weird.
(30:36):
And some of the time people were just weird and
the weirdness that they were in their real life also
translated through their music and people would connect with that.
But Judas Priest was sued after two young men shot
themselves with allegations that the band's music contained subliminal or
backward messages. This case became a massive story into what
could program people. Now, I do think, and I'm not
(30:59):
saying this about Judas Priest, I do think once these
stories started to hit, as I mentioned earlier, people started
doing it on purpose. They would find weird ways to
say words that you could play it backward because they
wanted the attention of, oh, they're also backward masking, even
though all they were doing was putting it on a
record so people would find it and then talk about them.
So in the end, that's all I think it is.
(31:21):
Random occurrences, trying to understand how somebody was so good
at something. So you said the devil must've given him abilities.
And then later on, I do believe that people started
just to use it to market themselves. I did mention earlier,
Robert Johnson and the 27 club. Robert Johnson, Jimi Hendrix,
(31:42):
Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, Kurt Cobain, Amy Winehouse. Is 27
somehow cursed? Is 27 the price to pay for extraordinary talent?
I mean, statistically, there is no supernatural demonstrated 27 phenomenon,
but people know of the 27 Club. So did these
(32:04):
people actually sell their souls? No, I don't think so.
You can kind of trace a very similar story through
all of them. Paginini, Tartini, Tommy Johnson, Robert Johnson, The Beatles,
Led Zeppelin, even Black Sabbath and Judas Priest and Avril Lavigne,
(32:26):
even Avril Lavigne. So the devil is not in music,
but the devil is going to get you. if you're
not good. So eat your vitamins, say your prayers, and
be thankful I didn't put an artist on episode 666
of the Bobbycast. Because if so, it probably would have
(32:50):
ended tragic. That's it. Thank you all. Don't believe everything
you see or hear or read on the internet. Goodbye, everybody.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Hang tight. The Bobbycast will be right back. And we're
back on the Bobby cast.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Okay. Thanks for listening to that. I do want to
share a clip from get real with Caroline hobby with
Jesse James Decker and Eric Decker. So Caroline hobby has
a really great podcast and I hope you hear this
and you go over and subscribe. And so Jesse and
Eric talk about their family life, their shared core values
and their and why work-life balance always comes first. So
(33:38):
here you go from Get Real with Caroline Hobby.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
I have encountered now several women like you who just
have this enormous bandwidth. You have such a huge bandwidth. Like,
let alone four kids. That's enough in itself.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
One kid. I have one kid.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
And I'm like, my bandwidth is stretched. You've got four kids.
Then you have a huge career. I mean, you started
off in singing, and then that led to reality TV.
And then it led to cookbooks, which, by the way,
I have to show you this because this is not
planned at all.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
No way. But we use this.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
Cookbook all the time.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
You do?
Speaker 4 (34:19):
Because first off, we do Bananas Foster nonstop in Puppy Chow.
Sunny and I make it all the time.
Speaker 5 (34:26):
It is literally— It's the best. I crave it mostly during, um,
like the holidays. It's, oh my God, I just love it.
I'm so glad you like it too.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
It's, it's addicting.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
We make it once a week. Sunny's like, can we
make puppy chow and we use your cookbook? And then
we make the name of the podcast.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
Oh, that makes me so happy. That's why I made
those books though. Like it's, you know, it's not, I'm
not a chef. I'm, I'm a, I'm a home cook.
I'm a, I just want recipes and food. that people
can like make as a family and together and like
have their own traditions and stuff. And hearing those stories
like make me so happy. Cause that's honestly like the whole,
(35:03):
that's what makes me feel happy, you know, hearing.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
The most of.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
And also like who is a chef, you know, like
most people, most moms are not chefs. I'm not a chef.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
I can't cook at all.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
I have to follow a cookbook and I don't want
27 steps in like four hours of baking something. I
want it to be good. I want it to be
a crowd pleaser and, I want to be able to
cook with Sunny, you know?
Speaker 1 (35:23):
I don't want it to be so complicated.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
But it still tastes so good. Yeah, and I didn't
want my books to feel intimidating.
Speaker 5 (35:31):
I didn't want them to feel like this is chef-y
fancy food because it's just not me.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
I just... I don't know.
Speaker 5 (35:37):
I wanted it to be as simple as possible. And
if you notice there, every single recipe is a picture
because I want you to know what it looks like. Like,
you know, those books where you get it and it's like,
it's duck confit and it's all this stuff and there's
no picture. And I'm just like, I don't.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Know what it's going to look like.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
You know? I have another cookbook that I use all
the time and about half of the recipes don't have pictures.
And I have never even attempted to make those recipes
because I don't, I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I know.
Speaker 5 (36:03):
You don't know what it looks like.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
That's a big thing for me.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
So. Well, you're very practical.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
You know, as hot as you are and as talented
as you are, you're very practical, which I appreciate.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
Well, thank you for that. Yay.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
Come say hello.
Speaker 5 (36:17):
No, I got an Eric. Oh, what's up, Eric?
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I'm talking to Caroline.
Speaker 5 (36:21):
We're doing a podcast right now. We can say hi.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Yes, we're recording.
Speaker 5 (36:24):
You can come say hello.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Well, hi, Eric.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Caroline.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (36:29):
How are you doing? Are you guys live right now?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yes, we're live.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Come join.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
No, Jesse and I just Zoom call sometimes to catch
up for fun.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
Honestly, that's about an easier way to do it these days.
Do you ever get time to hang out with friends? Like,
unless you're doing something with them? You're pretty good about that.
Y'all are good about hanging out with people.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
You know what it is, though?
Speaker 5 (36:52):
We always tell everyone to come to the house.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
I think that makes it easiest.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
If you try to invite us out to do things,
more than likely, we're not really going to do them.
But my response when people are like, do you want
to come do this or should we go do this?
I'm always like, no, but you can come to the house.
I'll make something.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Just come over.
Speaker 5 (37:08):
And it always works out that way.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
More fun anyway. Kids can run wild, you know, and
y'all have like a pool and all the things. That's
why you got to build your backyard. Like, I feel
like y'all have done a great job building a great backyard.
That was important to him.
Speaker 5 (37:23):
He wants to have a situation.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Where no one ever leaves and no one wants.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
To go anywhere and that when the kids continue to
get older, we're the house that they want to come to. Because,
you know, you want to have eyes on all your
chickens at all times. So for us, it's like, you know,
as long as they're out here and they're running wild
and I'm bringing out snacks, he's made it amazing. Got
the pickleball court and we've got all the gidgets and
the gadgets and the, you.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Know, all the things.
Speaker 5 (37:47):
It just, it's great.
Speaker 4 (37:48):
You guys are really not supposed to have both of
you here. We'll just dive into y'all. You guys are
such a great couple.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Y'all really are.
Speaker 4 (37:56):
Like, I feel like and I told Jesse to be
as hot as she is and to be as hot
as you guys are as a power couple. Y'all are
also just like so real and y'all do so many things.
I was like, Jesse, how do you have this bandwidth?
I do not have a bandwidth like you guys. But like,
y'all just literally do it all as a family too,
(38:16):
which I love because I feel like, and Jessie, I
feel like you probably have had to fight for this
and you too, Eric. The industry and entertainment can, it
can really try to tear you apart from your family.
And I feel like you have put a strong no
to that. And you're like, everything we do is going
to be a family.
Speaker 5 (38:34):
Yeah, I think for us, it's not even a try.
I think luckily it's come so natural to us just
to like, It just feels good to be a family
and continue to stay grounded in that because I think
we just both grew up like that. So it would
feel really strange to not continue on that. I think
(38:54):
we have blessings and we're grateful for all the things
that we've worked for in our life and that we have.
But I think that when it comes down to it,
the foundation has stayed the same since we've met each other.
And I think that's why we were a great match
because I think we view the world the same way,
(39:14):
our values are the same, and what always comes first
is our family and our relationship. And I just think
when you put those things first, everything else falls into
place the way it should because it's it's putting what's
most important into focus. When you, when you put things
that are superficial first or money or fame or whatever
it may be, like, look at how those things turn out.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
It's, it doesn't turn out well or right.
Speaker 5 (39:40):
Cause it's, it's unnatural or it take all this stuff
away and look back hundreds and hundreds of years, what
is always and always will be most important is your
family and your unit that you've created together, you know?
Speaker 2 (39:54):
I'll break on Jess for a moment because she does
a great job. I mean, she's the busy one. She's
doing a million things and it's fun watching her have
success in all these different industries, in a sense, or
just categories. But, you know, she like, obviously.
Makes family first in the sense that we went on
(40:15):
a trip last week and she tried to fit in
like four different shoots, like the day that we got
in so she could be done with work to spend time.
And also, you know, the work life balance is pretty amazing.
But when she goes on trips too, she's last slide out,
first slide in, you know, so there's no sacrifice when
it comes to being there for her kiddos and for
(40:36):
her family. And, you know, really, um, we'll say no
to things to make sure that family's first and that,
you know, we are keen into what our kids are doing,
their activities and schools to function. So it's, it's been
amazing seeing her be able to, to do that. And,
you know, it comes with maturity and just experience. And so, yeah,
(40:59):
I think.
Speaker 5 (40:59):
It's really nice.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Success is just like she said, being grounded and what's
truly important. I think we've, you know, as we've gotten older, you,
you know, what's, more valuable you know time is more
valuable than than money
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Thanks for listening to the bobby cast share this episode
with a friend because they don't pay to advertise us
Hey everybody, welcome to episode 666 of the Bobbycast and
we really didn't have a guest in mind and we
also felt like it would be disingenuous for us to
do an interview and then post the 666 up in
the corner like we do every episode so we are
(00:23):
not having a guest on this. Instead we are doing
something a bit special and you're going to hear me
talk about it. It's basically the history of the devil
and the devil in music, where we talk about everything
from backward masking to people claiming they met the devil,
et cetera. You're going to hear me explain all of that,
but we didn't want to put anyone on this. So
here you go. Episode 666. Enjoy. Welcome to this episode,
(00:48):
the devil and the music, stories, rumors, and falsehoods. So
why does the devil keep showing up in music? So
the file number for this is If you're listening to
the audio version is 666. So instead of avoiding it,
we're going to go right to it. And obviously no
(01:10):
artist would have wanted to be episode 666. So I
thought we'd take this time to talk about the devil
in music. For hundreds of years, there's been this weird
connection between great musicians and the devil. That's what I'm
supposed to be. If you guys are listening and you're
not watching, I'm rocking a devil outfit right now. I
(01:32):
got on a little red bow tie. I got on
a cape. I got on that thing that goes over
your head that pulls your hair back, except with devil ears.
I kind of look like Problem Child from back in
the late 80s, early 90s, but it's supposed to be
the devil. So let's talk about it in music. And
I'm not saying that the people we're going to talk
about were Satanists in any way. A lot of times
(01:53):
it was just marketing. Heck, most, if not all, weren't.
And some of these stories were completely invented, not even
by the artists that I'm going to talk about, but
by either their record company or just rumors that started
to spread about them. That's what's crazy. We have these
connections to some of these artists and the devil, and
(02:16):
they had nothing to do with it. Actually, some of
them couldn't shake it. And also they wanted to, but
then just realized, I guess we'll just go with this.
We're making money anyway. Some of these were rumors that
got repeated so many times that people started treating them
as real life history. But occasionally, there was an artist
(02:37):
that became fascinated with the occult, which made the rumors explode.
So what I find interesting mostly is this is way
before even rock and roll. Before Ozzy, before Led Zeppelin,
before the Beatles, before Robert Johnson, before... Any of the
music that we know as having a relationship with the devil,
(02:58):
classical musicians were rumored to be getting abilities from the devil.
And so when I dove in, I was surprised at
what I learned about this. There was almost a formula.
Someone becomes unbelievably talented. People pretty much can't explain how
they're doing it. The artist is mysterious or behaves differently,
(03:19):
which a lot of times they only do that because
they're an artist. And you know what? Artists are just weird.
And then something tragic happens. And eventually somebody says, they
must have made a deal with the devil. So these
are the stories behind those stories. And for me, when
I thought about who I would start with, it was easy.
(03:42):
It was Robert Johnson and the Crossroads legend. Now, this
is probably the most famous of the sold his soul
to the devil stories, at least in American music. Robert Johnson,
to give you a little background, was a Mississippi Delta
Blues musician born in 1911. The legend basically goes, he
(04:02):
wanted to be a great blues guitarist. But early on, supposedly,
he wasn't very good. And supposedly, and I'm not going
to say that over and over again, but just remember,
there's pretty much a supposedly in most of this. But
other musicians remembered This young guy trying to sit in
with him, and he was not impressive. Actually, he was
(04:24):
quite annoying. Then, Robert Johnson disappeared for a period of time.
There was no record of where he went, just that
he was gone. And eventually, he comes back. And suddenly, man,
can he play. And not just slightly better, according to
the legend, he transformed into an incredible guitarist. And people
(04:46):
couldn't understand how someone could improve so dramatically. So the
story developed that Robert Johnson went to a crossroads in
Mississippi at midnight. And while he was there, he was
supposedly met there by a mysterious man, eventually identified in
the folklore as the devil. And according to people that
(05:10):
heard the story, Robert Johnson handed him his guitar and
the devil tuned it. Sounds like a guitar tech to me.
But the devil tuned his guitar at the crossroads and
then gives it back. And in exchange for Robert Johnson's soul,
he was given supernatural ability to play the blues. And
(05:32):
people believe that. You can look at the song titles
of Robert Johnson records like Crossroad Blues, Me and the
Devil Blues, Hell Hound on My Tail, And if you're
already looking for a Satan story, there's one right there.
In Crossroad Blues, Robert Johnson sings about being at a
(05:52):
crossroads and falling to his knees. In Me and the
Devil Blues, he's literally singing about the devil walking beside him.
So after he dies, people start taking the songs as
confessions more than just a guy that was making art
or analogies where the devil could have been, well, really
anyone or anything that was treating them poorly. So here's
(06:15):
what was actually true about this. I feel so stupid
saying this. There was no reliable, credible evidence that Robert
Johnson hung out with the devil on the railroad track.
That's a stupid thing to have to say. People claimed
he went to the crossroads. They don't even know if
he was at a crossroads. They claimed he met Satan.
(06:36):
There were no footprints from Satan. They claimed he sold
his soul.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Nope.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
The Smithsonian has specifically described the devil bargain as myth.
I got seven clicks deep on this, and this is
what I think happened. I think that Robert Johnson just
got really good. That time away, he just got really good.
He worked really hard to become a great musician, and
(07:04):
because he was so good, people started to go, there's
no way that blues player without much of an education,
could be that good. And so, that's what I think happened.
People who weren't as good as him needed an excuse
because he was now better than them. And they were
freaking losers. And they created this story because they were
(07:26):
losers and now Robert Johnson was better than they were. Now,
during the period where Robert Johnson supposedly disappeared, he spent
time around a guitarist named Isaiah Zimmerman. Zimmerman was a
very accomplished player and Robert Johnson's style was started to
be a little derivative of him. Now I'm not saying
it was only Zimmerman that he knew how to play,
(07:49):
but there were definitely some techniques that the two shared.
And so another part of it was that they would
practice at night and they would practice in a field
that was near a cemetery at times, because that was
the land where they were able to practice. And there
were no satanic rituals there. They just wanted to be
out there. So they didn't bother anybody. But imagine if
(08:10):
you're just a loser and this guy shows up and
is now better than you and you're not the best
player in town anymore and you have to have an excuse.
You go, I think he sold his soul to the devil.
But imagine hearing that story. A guy disappears. Practices guitar
in graveyards. Is unbelievably good. Sings about the devil. Dies young.
Of course, someone would create a supernatural explanation. So, Robert Johnson...
(08:35):
the guy that people associate with the devil, actually, and
I'll say this, never met the devil. He died in 1938.
He was only 27 years old. So even his death
isn't completely settled historically. The most famous account there was
he was involved with a married woman and was poisoned
by a jealous husband, possibly through poisoned whiskey. And even
that story gets debated. But now you got mysterious man,
(08:58):
devil songs, crossroads, sudden talent, mysterious death, all gone at
age 27. And he later becomes a member of the
27 Club, which I'll bring up later. The craziest part,
Robert Johnson may have gotten somebody else's devil story attached
to him because there's another blues musician. Let's go back.
(09:20):
Tommy Johnson. I think this is the original Crossroads story
that they just pinned on Robert Johnson. Tommy Johnson too.
No relation, by the way. Tommy Johnson was older. He
was born in the 1890s. He was already an established
musician before Robert Johnson became famous. According to Tommy Johnson's brother,
Tommy told people the exact story that became attached to Robert.
(09:45):
And so Tommy's version was this. If you want to
learn to play guitar, take your guitar, go to the crossroads,
go there around midnight, sit there and learn to play. Eventually,
a mysterious man comes up and takes your guitar, tunes it,
play something, hands it back. And then after the That's
what he would say. And the implication there is by
giving your guitar over, you gave your soul to the devil. Now,
this story does have a more direct connection to the
crossroads bargain because in his story, he was like, just
literally go to the crossroads. So Tommy Johnson has this story.
(10:18):
Robert Johnson becomes more famous than Tommy Johnson. Robert also
records a song called Crossroads Blues, so then it's Robert
Johnson's story. So even the movie Oh Brother, We're Out
There uses this mythology. So there's a character in that
who said he sold his soul to the devil in exchange,
and that was based on Tommy Johnson's story. But that's
(10:41):
not even the first story. And as I kept digging,
there was a guy... Niccolo Paginini, 100 years earlier. He
was born in Italy in 1782. Think of him as
the Eddie Van Halen, Jimi Hendrix, but of the violin.
He was doing things with the violin that people really
weren't doing then, that people didn't think were possible. His
(11:05):
technique was so far beyond. He had a style. You
could hear him. People could not replicate what he was doing.
Audiences were even I don't want to say scared, but
it was so new to them what he was doing
that they thought there was something possessing him because there
was no explanation for it. So as I mentioned earlier,
the explanation was there's got to be something supernatural going on. Also,
(11:26):
he looked apart. He wasn't dressed like me exactly, but
he was extremely thin and pale skinned. He had like
sunken cheeks, long dark hair. He had really long fingers
and they would often talk about his fingers and how
they were long and they resembled the devil. But he
also was able to use them to play violin really well.
Like he had perfect violin fingers. The Library of Congress
(11:48):
has historical characters of this Paginini guy surrounded by demons
and witches because so many people thought of him as
a demon, as a sorcerer, as a wizard. He was
described by all of this and these ancient, I guess
not ancient, but these late 1800s like journals that people
would keep. Eventually the rumor was because he looked like
(12:10):
that and he was that good, he couldn't be that
good except for the devil giving him the abilities, which
is crazy. He also learned of this and was really
one of the first people to, I don't want to
say embrace it because he didn't create it, but he
realized that people were showing up to see the guy
that was possessed. So He understood not only playing violin,
(12:33):
but he understood theater. At performances in Paris, he would
darken the stage and then he would come out to
just a single light. And back then the light wasn't
a big, you know, light coming like a strobe light
or it was basically candles. And he would come out
in 1831, no electricity, no giant LED wall, no pyro,
(12:57):
no streaming services, just him. talking creepily like a vampire,
and then just play the crap out of the violin.
So people thought something was wrong with him, and he
played into it. He was not satanically gifted. He was
just an extraordinary musician. He developed and taught a technique
(13:19):
that changed violin performances even for people today. He has
something called 24 Caprices, and I think that's how you
say it, but it is still a very demanding and
extraordinary piece. But when music ability becomes difficult to comprehend,
people go, there must be something extra there. Not hard work,
not the foresight to see a new path to make
(13:41):
it really cool. The devil. And so that's really, I think,
where the Robert Johnson story goes back to. Robert Johnson
gets all the credit because he was kind of the
most famous. Tommy Johnson is the original with the story.
And you got the guy here who plays the crap
out of the fiddle, Niccolo Pagini. who was kind of
that guy. Now, I'm going to give you one more
(14:04):
old school one. This is the knowledge part of the show.
So there's a guy named Giuseppe Tartini. And this one's
even better because this guy really created the whole story
where the other ones didn't. So he was another Italian violinist,
but he was born in 1692. So we're going back
300 years here. Now, this is his story that he
would tell people. He described having this incredible... vivid at
(14:31):
times dark at times um he didn't use the word
satanic he would use words like scary and demonic but
it would be a dream and in the dream he
made a pact with the devil and the devil then
becomes his servant and eventually he hands the devil his
(14:51):
violin the devil starts playing now this is all in
his dream the music he hears the devil play is
astonishing It was technically more beautiful than anything he's heard before.
And so he wakes up, boom, from the dream. He
grabs his violin and he tries to recreate what the
devil played for him in his dream. And what he
(15:13):
had recreated, it was called the Devil's Trill Sonata. He
supposedly felt what he actually wrote wasn't even close to
what he'd heard in the dream. But imagine that, that
the most famous piece that you write, that people still
know about 300 years later, 400 years later, is something
that you dreamed about with the devil. Now, did he
really dream about the devil? I don't know. The guy
(15:35):
just could have been playing it up. But he would
always say, yeah, if you think that was good, you
should have heard the devil play it. So Robert Johnson folklore, Paginini,
he built off the rumors around him. And then Tartini
was a dream that he would tell himself. And so
(15:55):
There you have it. It also sounds like the devil
went down to Georgia in that guy's dream because the
devil challenges Johnny to a fiddle competition. I mean, even
that song is kind of this, but in that one,
Johnny wins.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
All right.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
So there we have it. That's about 14 minutes of
the early history of the devil in music. Now I'm
going to get to some more contemporary stuff, but I
feel like without knowing about the early stuff, this stuff
doesn't make as much sense. And also when someone says
Robert Johnson sold a soul to the devil at the crossroads,
be like, actually that was Tommy Johnson. Actually, it was
an Italian violinist because it all roots back. Also to
(16:30):
people not understanding that some people just work hard or
have a really great gift.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Hang tight. The Bobby cast will be right back. And
we're back on the Bobby cast.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Let's go to Led Zeppelin. And let's go to Jimmy Page.
This is kind of where fact and rumor collide. So
there is a bit of a documented occult connection here. Now,
that does not mean that Jimmy Page worships Satan. It
does mean that Jimmy Page had a serious fascination with
the occult. So Jimmy Page became fascinated with Aleister Crowley.
(17:16):
Crowley was an English occultist born in the late 1800s.
deliberately provocative. He wrote about magic and mysticism and yeah,
of the figures in the 20th century. So the 1900s,
they were famous by the 1900s. Like he was probably
the LeBron of it. And so the British newspapers would
(17:37):
talk about him back in the day, say it was wicked.
It was very much part of counterculture. And I'm still
talking about Aleister Crowley at this point. Jimmy Page of
Led Zeppelin was super interested. He collected books and artifacts.
He studied his writings. He eventually bought this place called
Boleskine House in Scotland. So Alistair Crowley had owned this
(17:58):
Boleskine House. And Crowley had used the property while attempting
to do things like channel the devil. So imagine you're
a rock fan in the 70s. And Led Zeppelin is enormous, mysterious.
I mean... very sexual, and they were making really heavy music.
(18:19):
And then you find out their guitarist bought Aleister Crowley's
old house. That all kind of plays into it, right?
You would think these guys play this crazy hard music.
The lead singer kind of sounds like the devil with his,
I mean, the rumors practically write themselves. And the rumor
(18:40):
was a packed rumor. One of the legends that developed
was that members of Led Zeppelin had entered some sort
of package with the occult in exchange for success. Very
familiar if you listened to the Robert Johnson story earlier.
There was no solid evidence that happened. I'd always grown
up hearing that Led Zeppelin had sold their soul to
the devil for their fame, and that's where this comes from.
And with that, when you sell your soul to the devil...
(19:02):
There's always bad things that happen afterward. It's not just
the devil gets your soul, but things around you, tragic,
must happen just to remind you that you sold your
soul to the devil. So 1975, Robert Plant suffers a
devastating car crash. Robert Plant's five-year-old son died in 1977.
John Bonham, the drummer, died in 1980. Now to somebody
(19:25):
that was already convinced that Led Zeppelin had made a bargain,
a deal with the devil, these tragedies became... Ah, looks
like prices come and do. But there's no evidence. It's mythology.
And that's how these stories start to grow. Now, Jimmy
Page is different than Robert Johnson. The difference is Robert
Johnson really never claimed of the devil bargain. Jimmy Page
(19:49):
was inspired. interested in learning about the occult, not even
being an occultist himself. With that, there was a little
factual seed. And around that, the story of Led Zeppelin
selling their soul to the devil. Also, Stairway to Heaven,
one of the greatest songs ever. One of the largest
examples of backward masking hysteria. Now back masking is you
(20:14):
can just play a song backward and it would say
something if you played it backward. So the thought was
artists could record a song but strategically make whatever you're
saying forward say really bad things if you played it backward.
If you listen to it normally and you're just listening
consciously you wouldn't hear it but your subconscious supposedly would
receive the message of the devil and in the 70s
(20:35):
and the 80s people were convinced rock bands were doing
this that they were putting in sexual messages and Satanic messages,
drug messages, um, all into the records backwards. So you
put on a record player and you just pull it
backward and it would say something. And if you've ever
heard any of this, and this is not a real example,
but let's say you thought it said, uh, the dog
(20:56):
won't stop barking and you played it backward and it went,
you would hear it like that and go, yep. I
said it. The dog won't stop barking. It was never
super clear, but Stairway to Heaven became one of the
biggest targets. Now, people started playing it backward because they
knew of the relationship they had with supposedly the devil,
and they were now claiming that this record had phrases
(21:19):
praising Satan if you played it backward. Religious groups played these.
Churches played these. Radio shows talked about these. It becomes
part of a larger satanic panic in the mid to
late 70s. The problem is, Humans are really good at
finding patterns. So once somebody tells us what we're supposed
(21:40):
to hear, we go and find it, even if it's
not really there. If I play a garbled sound for you,
you'll probably hear nothing. But if I put a sentence
on a screen, I say, listen for this, suddenly you're
going to be, oh, wait, I think I heard it.
So our brains find meaningful patterns and ambiguous sound. And
(22:02):
that's really what was happening here, at least until later,
because some people did start to do it. I won't
say as a joke, but they realized that it would
get them some attention and some press. But Led Zeppelin
denied it. They said, we did not put any satanic
messages backward in our songs. Robert Plant was irritated because
Stairway meant something to him. That song was a message
(22:24):
from him that meant something completely different. It's something that
was satanic. So if I played it backward for you
and you didn't know what you were supposed to hear,
you wouldn't hear it. If I played it backward and
then just gave you three or four things you were
supposed to hear, I think you'd hear all of them.
You ever hear Green Needle? You ever hear that thing
where some people hear Green Needle, Porcupine, or whatever? That's
(22:46):
basically what was happening here. So if you're asking me,
Led Zeppelin, just a band who liked to rock real hard,
and Jimmy Page was just really interested in another artist's work.
It just happened to be a little weird. Let's go
to the Eagles. Hotel California. Here's another song because it
(23:09):
was so ambiguous. It created an enormous conspiracy theory about
the devil. Hotel California, amazing song. Comes out in 1976.
The song is kind of creepy if you're just listening
and inserting what you think it means because there is
a mysterious hotel. There are voices in the night. There
are people who can't escape the hotel because you can
(23:31):
never leave. There is strange imagery. There's the beast. And again,
that idea where you can check out, but you can
never leave. I mean, that right there is perfect conspiracy
theory material. So let's go to the satanic theory. A
rumor develops that the Hotel California actually was connected to
(23:52):
Anton LaVey and the Church of Satan. So LaVey founded
this church in San Francisco in 1966. So this is
what the people were claiming back then. Hotel California That
specific hotel was a satanic church. The lyrics, according to them,
describe satanic rituals. The beast obviously was, you say it, Satan.
(24:13):
And even Anton LaVey appeared in the album artwork. None
of that is actually true. There is no evidence behind that.
And so the Eagles have talked about it individually. Don
Henley has repeatedly described the song in different ways. His version,
which I watched three interviews with, It's about the dark
(24:35):
side of the American dream. Excess, basically. Decadence. And how
they were going through this. Like all of a sudden,
here they are now with money and women and drugs.
And you think this is what you want. Then you
get it. And it turns out it's also kind of
tragic what you were wanting and how the people are
on the good side. And it's not even the good side.
It's the bad side. It's the scary side. How the
music business is awful. The transition from innocence where you
(24:58):
know nothing and you're moving out to LA to make
music to experience. But that experience... was sad or scary
or tragic. And so California becomes the symbol. Like you
arrive as they did chasing fame and money and beauty,
success and pleasure. And those things maybe aren't as good
(25:21):
as you thought they were once you get them, or
you get them once and you want to chase that
high again. And they never actually make you feel as
good as they did the first time. So the line
you can check out anytime you like, but you can
never leave. Man, it's way more interesting if it's Satan's Hotel,
isn't it? It just makes you go, dang. The actual
(25:43):
meaning of the song is dark, though. That's the irony
of Hotel California. It didn't need to be about Satan
for it to be dark. It is dark. You don't
need Satan. The song is that you finally got everything
you thought you wanted. It's not near as good as
you thought it was, and now you're trapped by it.
You can add addiction to part of that. So Hotel
(26:04):
California is not about Satan. It is not a satanic hotel.
And the guy that started the Church of the Devil
is not in the album artwork. Let's go to the Beatles.
Paul is dead. And then imagery from the occult. Now
this isn't exactly a Satan story, but it may be
(26:24):
the greatest example of people turning music into a giant
conspiracy theory. Now the theory is, and we can start
with 1969 because the rumor explodes in 69 that Paul
McCartney is dead. And there are such good YouTube videos
on this. I fully believe the earth is round. But
if you watch enough flat earth videos, you'll go, huh,
(26:48):
these guys might be onto something. They're not. The same
thing with these Paul is dead videos. If you watch
enough of them, because they're only giving you parts of
the story, you'll start to go, huh, maybe Paul is dead.
So according to the theory, Paul died in a car
crash in 1966. Yes, Paul McCartney. The Beatles, because they
were so famous, secretly replaced him with a lookalike. Then
(27:11):
because they felt guilty or because they wanted fans to know,
they're diehard fans, they hid clues that Paul was still
alive because that's what you would do. You know as
well as I do, if you were trying to hide
that somebody was dead so you could keep making millions
of dollars, there would be no clues or no hints
in anything But they had clues supposedly in songs, in
album covers, in lyrics, in backward recordings. And there were
(27:38):
so many clues. The fans began studying everything. Abbey Road
becomes a supposed funeral procession. And if you've seen the
picture of them walking, John's in white, which would mean
he would be the preacher. Ringo's in black, and so
he's mourning. George is in denim. You really got to
stretch for this one. But he was a gravedigger. And
(27:59):
Paul's barefoot. He's not wearing shoes. And so since he's
barefoot in the picture, he is obviously dead. He's a corpse.
Paul is also out of step with the others. He's
holding a cigarette in his right hand, even though he's left-handed.
I'm just walking you through some of these crazy things.
There's a Volkswagen Beetle in the background with a license
(28:20):
plate that appears to say 28IF. Now, if you were
thinking to yourself, 28IF, And I'm going to stall this
out for a second. What would you think 2-8-I-F meant?
You see a license plate and you had to actually
create some sort of conspiracy theory. 2-8-I-F. That would be
(28:43):
28 if he lived. The math itself also has problems.
Paul wasn't actually 28 when Abbey Road came out. but
that's not how conspiracy theories work. They just work because
you can say anything and some people will believe them
and then they'll spread it. And the next thing you know,
a lot more people believe them. Every coincidence then becomes evidence.
And there was a lot of playing records backward as well.
(29:07):
And Paul is dead. You would hear that, but I,
and again, I've heard it and it sounds very similar
to the words Paul is dead and I just believe
if you dug through enough albums, you would probably find
something that sounded like, oh, he is dead with the Beatles.
(29:30):
They put out so much music. Avril Lavigne supposedly is dead, too.
I don't know if you guys have heard that story,
but Avril Lavigne supposedly died and her record label replaced her.
with this new girl that's been Avril Lavigne for the
past I guess it'd be 20 years or so now
and so I'd heard this and Avril Lavigne was at
(29:50):
Dancing with the Stars for one of the shows that
I was doing she was performing that night and I'd
known that Avril Lavigne was supposedly dead and replaced with
someone else just like Paul McCartney and I yelled out
Avril's fake name, and she didn't turn. And that's how
I knew it was the real Avril Lavigne. So there
you go. Look, in the end, of all the research
(30:13):
that I've done, and trust me, I spent a lot
of time doing this, so much that I started to believe, hey,
maybe there is some devil there. There is no devil.
At least not giving anybody any sort of skill. You
did have weirdos like Judas Priest which, Judas Priest was weird.
(30:36):
And some of the time people were just weird and
the weirdness that they were in their real life also
translated through their music and people would connect with that.
But Judas Priest was sued after two young men shot
themselves with allegations that the band's music contained subliminal or
backward messages. This case became a massive story into what
could program people. Now, I do think, and I'm not
(30:59):
saying this about Judas Priest, I do think once these
stories started to hit, as I mentioned earlier, people started
doing it on purpose. They would find weird ways to
say words that you could play it backward because they
wanted the attention of, oh, they're also backward masking, even
though all they were doing was putting it on a
record so people would find it and then talk about them.
So in the end, that's all I think it is.
(31:21):
Random occurrences, trying to understand how somebody was so good
at something. So you said the devil must've given him abilities.
And then later on, I do believe that people started
just to use it to market themselves. I did mention earlier,
Robert Johnson and the 27 club. Robert Johnson, Jimi Hendrix,
(31:42):
Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, Kurt Cobain, Amy Winehouse. Is 27
somehow cursed? Is 27 the price to pay for extraordinary talent?
I mean, statistically, there is no supernatural demonstrated 27 phenomenon,
but people know of the 27 Club. So did these
(32:04):
people actually sell their souls? No, I don't think so.
You can kind of trace a very similar story through
all of them. Paginini, Tartini, Tommy Johnson, Robert Johnson, The Beatles,
Led Zeppelin, even Black Sabbath and Judas Priest and Avril Lavigne,
(32:26):
even Avril Lavigne. So the devil is not in music,
but the devil is going to get you. if you're
not good. So eat your vitamins, say your prayers, and
be thankful I didn't put an artist on episode 666
of the Bobbycast. Because if so, it probably would have
(32:50):
ended tragic. That's it. Thank you all. Don't believe everything
you see or hear or read on the internet. Goodbye, everybody.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Hang tight. The Bobbycast will be right back. And we're
back on the Bobby cast.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Okay. Thanks for listening to that. I do want to
share a clip from get real with Caroline hobby with
Jesse James Decker and Eric Decker. So Caroline hobby has
a really great podcast and I hope you hear this
and you go over and subscribe. And so Jesse and
Eric talk about their family life, their shared core values
and their and why work-life balance always comes first. So
(33:38):
here you go from Get Real with Caroline Hobby.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
I have encountered now several women like you who just
have this enormous bandwidth. You have such a huge bandwidth. Like,
let alone four kids. That's enough in itself.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
One kid. I have one kid.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
And I'm like, my bandwidth is stretched. You've got four kids.
Then you have a huge career. I mean, you started
off in singing, and then that led to reality TV.
And then it led to cookbooks, which, by the way,
I have to show you this because this is not
planned at all.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
No way. But we use this.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
Cookbook all the time.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
You do?
Speaker 4 (34:19):
Because first off, we do Bananas Foster nonstop in Puppy Chow.
Sunny and I make it all the time.
Speaker 5 (34:26):
It is literally— It's the best. I crave it mostly during, um,
like the holidays. It's, oh my God, I just love it.
I'm so glad you like it too.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
It's, it's addicting.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
We make it once a week. Sunny's like, can we
make puppy chow and we use your cookbook? And then
we make the name of the podcast.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
Oh, that makes me so happy. That's why I made
those books though. Like it's, you know, it's not, I'm
not a chef. I'm, I'm a, I'm a home cook.
I'm a, I just want recipes and food. that people
can like make as a family and together and like
have their own traditions and stuff. And hearing those stories
like make me so happy. Cause that's honestly like the whole,
(35:03):
that's what makes me feel happy, you know, hearing.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
The most of.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
And also like who is a chef, you know, like
most people, most moms are not chefs. I'm not a chef.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
I can't cook at all.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
I have to follow a cookbook and I don't want
27 steps in like four hours of baking something. I
want it to be good. I want it to be
a crowd pleaser and, I want to be able to
cook with Sunny, you know?
Speaker 1 (35:23):
I don't want it to be so complicated.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
But it still tastes so good. Yeah, and I didn't
want my books to feel intimidating.
Speaker 5 (35:31):
I didn't want them to feel like this is chef-y
fancy food because it's just not me.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
I just... I don't know.
Speaker 5 (35:37):
I wanted it to be as simple as possible. And
if you notice there, every single recipe is a picture
because I want you to know what it looks like. Like,
you know, those books where you get it and it's like,
it's duck confit and it's all this stuff and there's
no picture. And I'm just like, I don't.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Know what it's going to look like.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
You know? I have another cookbook that I use all
the time and about half of the recipes don't have pictures.
And I have never even attempted to make those recipes
because I don't, I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I know.
Speaker 5 (36:03):
You don't know what it looks like.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
That's a big thing for me.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
So. Well, you're very practical.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
You know, as hot as you are and as talented
as you are, you're very practical, which I appreciate.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
Well, thank you for that. Yay.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
Come say hello.
Speaker 5 (36:17):
No, I got an Eric. Oh, what's up, Eric?
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I'm talking to Caroline.
Speaker 5 (36:21):
We're doing a podcast right now. We can say hi.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Yes, we're recording.
Speaker 5 (36:24):
You can come say hello.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Well, hi, Eric.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Caroline.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (36:29):
How are you doing? Are you guys live right now?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yes, we're live.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Come join.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
No, Jesse and I just Zoom call sometimes to catch
up for fun.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
Honestly, that's about an easier way to do it these days.
Do you ever get time to hang out with friends? Like,
unless you're doing something with them? You're pretty good about that.
Y'all are good about hanging out with people.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
You know what it is, though?
Speaker 5 (36:52):
We always tell everyone to come to the house.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
I think that makes it easiest.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
If you try to invite us out to do things,
more than likely, we're not really going to do them.
But my response when people are like, do you want
to come do this or should we go do this?
I'm always like, no, but you can come to the house.
I'll make something.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Just come over.
Speaker 5 (37:08):
And it always works out that way.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
More fun anyway. Kids can run wild, you know, and
y'all have like a pool and all the things. That's
why you got to build your backyard. Like, I feel
like y'all have done a great job building a great backyard.
That was important to him.
Speaker 5 (37:23):
He wants to have a situation.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Where no one ever leaves and no one wants.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
To go anywhere and that when the kids continue to
get older, we're the house that they want to come to. Because,
you know, you want to have eyes on all your
chickens at all times. So for us, it's like, you know,
as long as they're out here and they're running wild
and I'm bringing out snacks, he's made it amazing. Got
the pickleball court and we've got all the gidgets and
the gadgets and the, you.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Know, all the things.
Speaker 5 (37:47):
It just, it's great.
Speaker 4 (37:48):
You guys are really not supposed to have both of
you here. We'll just dive into y'all. You guys are
such a great couple.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Y'all really are.
Speaker 4 (37:56):
Like, I feel like and I told Jesse to be
as hot as she is and to be as hot
as you guys are as a power couple. Y'all are
also just like so real and y'all do so many things.
I was like, Jesse, how do you have this bandwidth?
I do not have a bandwidth like you guys. But like,
y'all just literally do it all as a family too,
(38:16):
which I love because I feel like, and Jessie, I
feel like you probably have had to fight for this
and you too, Eric. The industry and entertainment can, it
can really try to tear you apart from your family.
And I feel like you have put a strong no
to that. And you're like, everything we do is going
to be a family.
Speaker 5 (38:34):
Yeah, I think for us, it's not even a try.
I think luckily it's come so natural to us just
to like, It just feels good to be a family
and continue to stay grounded in that because I think
we just both grew up like that. So it would
feel really strange to not continue on that. I think
(38:54):
we have blessings and we're grateful for all the things
that we've worked for in our life and that we have.
But I think that when it comes down to it,
the foundation has stayed the same since we've met each other.
And I think that's why we were a great match
because I think we view the world the same way,
(39:14):
our values are the same, and what always comes first
is our family and our relationship. And I just think
when you put those things first, everything else falls into
place the way it should because it's it's putting what's
most important into focus. When you, when you put things
that are superficial first or money or fame or whatever
it may be, like, look at how those things turn out.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
It's, it doesn't turn out well or right.
Speaker 5 (39:40):
Cause it's, it's unnatural or it take all this stuff
away and look back hundreds and hundreds of years, what
is always and always will be most important is your
family and your unit that you've created together, you know?
Speaker 2 (39:54):
I'll break on Jess for a moment because she does
a great job. I mean, she's the busy one. She's
doing a million things and it's fun watching her have
success in all these different industries, in a sense, or
just categories. But, you know, she like, obviously.
Makes family first in the sense that we went on
(40:15):
a trip last week and she tried to fit in
like four different shoots, like the day that we got
in so she could be done with work to spend time.
And also, you know, the work life balance is pretty amazing.
But when she goes on trips too, she's last slide out,
first slide in, you know, so there's no sacrifice when
it comes to being there for her kiddos and for
(40:36):
her family. And, you know, really, um, we'll say no
to things to make sure that family's first and that,
you know, we are keen into what our kids are doing,
their activities and schools to function. So it's, it's been
amazing seeing her be able to, to do that. And,
you know, it comes with maturity and just experience. And so, yeah,
(40:59):
I think.
Speaker 5 (40:59):
It's really nice.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Success is just like she said, being grounded and what's
truly important. I think we've, you know, as we've gotten older, you,
you know, what's, more valuable you know time is more
valuable than than money
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Thanks for listening to the bobby cast share this episode
with a friend because they don't pay to advertise us
Host
Bobby Bones
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