Ryan Hurd sits down with Bobby to talk about life as both an artist and one of Nashville’s most successful songwriters. He shares the stories behind writing songs for Morgan Wallen, Lady A, Jordan Davis and more, including how “Heartless” became one of the biggest songs of his career. Ryan also opens up about why songwriting feels more like a calling than a job, the reality of making a living through streaming and touring, and what it takes to keep chasing songs that stand out. Plus, he gets personal about his upcoming album, how writing helped him process a difficult chapter of his life, and why this record feels like the closing of one door and the beginning of something new.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey guys, Bobby here. In a second, we're going to
talk with Ryan Hurd, great artist, one of my favorite
songwriters in town. A few years ago, I had an
idea and it was to create an artist that could
open up a bunch of shows at the same time.
So like a baby act, that's what they would call
in a concert. So you have like the headliner, The
(00:29):
main support's the middle act, and the baby act comes
out as soon as the concert starts, whenever everybody's just
kind of moving in. And so I had this idea,
why don't we create this baby act, and it'd be
relatively cheap, and we'd write songs for it. And it
could be 10 places at once, and it would be
basically a hologram. And it all, for me, I was
(00:50):
inspired by, I saw, it was like 60 minutes on
how in Japan, they have these artists that were full
holograms that were doing concerts. I said, why, why can't
we do this here in country music? Now this is
five years or so ago, maybe more than that. COVID
messes with my brain. So I called one of my
friends named Ross Kopperman and I said, Hey, I have
(01:11):
this idea. And Ross Kopperman, by the way, he, how
many number ones does he have? I was trying to
look that he has 43 number one songs. So And
he's written for everybody. And he's written a million massive bangers.
But he's also a very close family friend. And I said,
I had this idea. And Ross said, I like it.
(01:33):
And so I said, but I feel like we need
somebody else. And we'll go in, we'll write all these
songs together. And my history of songwriting was writing comedy
songs for the most part. Wrote a bunch of comedy songs,
did a comedy album. I did write children's songs. I
did a kid's record. And that one did pretty well.
But again, I'm writing kid's songs. Never really written songs.
the actual serious country music. But I had this idea
(01:56):
for this hologram that could be the baby opener. So
I said, let's find somebody else to be part of
our trio. But no one's ever going to know it's
us creating it. We were going to do it all anonymous.
If there was a thing I would compare it to,
it would be the Gorillaz. But they had cartoons. And
the Gorillaz is Damon Auburn, who was also Blur. And
(02:19):
so we called Nicole Galleon. And so Nicole Gallion, also
a massive songwriter in Nashville. And again, so many number
ones and she's also excited by it. So we just
started writing songs. And so Nicole Gallion, she was also
named the country songwriter of the year in 2019. She
(02:40):
got the ACM song of the year twice for Automatic
from Miranda Lambert and Dan and Shay Tequila. So we're
talking about two massive songwriters in the room with me.
And I got this idea. Let's just start writing songs
and see what we come up with. And so I
kind of gave them the vision of what I wanted
this entity to be. And we came up with the
(03:02):
name Neon People. And so we wrote a bunch of
songs as Neon People. And if you go to wherever
you get your music, there are some songs by Neon People.
And what we did is Nicole sang them. There was
no AI at the time. Nicole sang them and we
just shifted her voice slightly. But I wrote with these
two people. all-star, A-plus songwriters every week, sometimes multiple times
(03:26):
a day for six months or so. So aside from
us creating Neon People, I was able to just get
baptized by beautiful fire into songwriting. I got to cheat.
I didn't have to come up through writing with people
that came to town at the same time. And I'm
young and we're all learning together. I got to cheat.
I had this idea. I was established in my career.
(03:49):
I got two grades and we just started writing. And
then I was in the room and I was just
blown away at how good they were. Now, again, they've
written so much for so long and they're also so good.
So it's like I went and tried to learn basketball
and guess who my coach is? It's LeBron. Like that's
kind of what it felt like. And so we created
Neon People. We started putting songs out. I'm going to
(04:09):
go look now and see if they're still up. They
should be. Let's see. Neon. It's Neon PPL. I don't
even know if they're still up anymore, huh? Do you
see any neon people up there?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I think I found it.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
How do you spell it?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
One little town.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Yeah, yeah. How do you spell neon people?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
It's one word.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Neon PPL. Oh, neon PPL, one word. Got it. So
we had these songs. And up right now, I think
we have, is there just two songs up? Yeah. We
wrote a bunch. We put two up. And right before
we were actually going to go public with it, Nicole
Gallion got a job as like the president of a
record label. And she said, I can't, I can't do
(04:54):
it because there's a conflict of interest. I'm running a
record label now. And we did all these songs and
we totally understood. She's president of a record label. We
don't want her to get in trouble. Yeah, we have
one song called One Little Town that we promoted none.
It has almost half a million streams. Not bad for
something that was never promoted ever. And I always felt like, man,
(05:15):
that really could have been something. Because there was a
message behind the music. It was like positivity. It was
a cheap opener for somebody that maybe couldn't afford to
bring someone out on the road to open for them.
And they just didn't want to walk out. Totally, hey,
it's me. Thanks for coming. I'll start the show now.
But what I took from it was so much about songwriting.
(05:40):
Because we wrote so many songs. And I was very
intimidated the first three or four times that we wrote songs. Now,
this is even with people I know, but I'm watching
them do what they do. And so I don't want
to say something stupid. All I've written, I wrote kid songs.
I write comedy songs. My biggest hit is Hobby Lobby Bobby,
a song about me working at Hobby Lobby. But I
(06:03):
remember taking notes as we would finish the session and
not so much about the songs, but just from what
I was learning. And so the notes that I took,
as we're about to go to a Ryan Hurd podcast
from one of the best songwriters that I know, the
notes that I took about songwriting, is that the best
songwriters aren't always the best writers. Sometimes they're the best editors. Meaning,
(06:27):
I don't know, a lot of people can stumble on
a great line or a good line, but the skill
is knowing if that line is special or what to
cut from it or a syllable, or is it actually finished?
And how do you know? And the answer is you don't.
You never actually know but I took from watching them
(06:52):
that really good lines would get thrown out a lot,
but the really great lines were often the edited really
good lines or the cadence of that line said differently.
Another note that I had here was that I feel
like a great song and a hit song are two
(07:13):
completely different things. Some hit songs are just made to
be fun and I think there are some songwriters that
could write you a hit in 30 minutes just by
using the format of verse, pre-chorus, chorus, put a whistle
and a snap in there. They know how to make
a song that's easily to sing to. But there are
(07:33):
a lot of really unbelievable songs, unbelievable country songs that
I hear that really weren't hits. Some that even are
singles that don't go number one. I remember Eric Pasley
had a song She don't love you. She's just lonely.
And I was like, that song is amazing. And so
(07:53):
I just started playing it on my radio show and
they decided to take that and go to radio. It
was never a number one song, but it ended up
winning like a, maybe a CMA. Is that what it won?
I think so.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
She don't love you. CMA. And that's because it was
such a great song. And again, It wasn't a hit song. Oh, NSAI,
10 Songs I Wish I'd Written. Yeah, but maybe it
was nominated for a CMA.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Oh, maybe so, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Yeah, but even like songwriters in town, because I don't
know if you heard Brandon or not, but it was
listed as one of the songs that year that other
songwriters had wished they had written. But I got that
from it. I also think that in songwriting, that might
be the only art form where being technically better can
sometimes make you worse. which is counterintuitive. Because I think
(08:51):
when you're first starting, especially me, when I first started
writing with real songwriters, I was going, okay, okay, okay.
Structure and rhyme scheme. I love when they do the
phrase turn. Okay, I got to find that. But then
I would start to leave out some of the human
of it. That didn't always fit, but that's often okay.
(09:12):
So the better you get sometimes, makes you worse. Now,
that being said, if you have the awareness to be
a really great songwriter and know all of the technicalities,
but still not let them own the session or the song,
like that's where it is. From my very limited six
(09:35):
months a year of writing songs, that's where it was.
It was always weird to me too, talking to them
was that I felt like songwriters are have it harder
as time goes on because we've heard every idea. There's
thousands of songs being written every single day. And you
(09:55):
feel like you've heard every idea. And I would say that, like,
how do you write something new? And it's often, well,
you don't write something wholly new as a concept, but
how that concept affects you, how it affects others. Sing
it from a different perspective. But there's so many ways to,
how do they say, chop up the cat? What do
(10:17):
they say, slice the cat? Skin of cat. Hey, that
poor cat is just getting mutilated right now. Another thing
was making the song simple without making it stupid. And
there is a fine line. To have a really great
song that is simple, anybody feels like they could have
(10:40):
written it, but nobody else did. It's one of those songs,
and I can give you an example. I remember when
Sam Hunt had Body Like a Back Road, and I
would hear Haters in Town. that were songwriters. That song
is so simple. Anybody could have written that. Okay. Well,
why didn't you? And maybe not that one. Why didn't
you write another simple song or any song at all
that had the success of Body Like a Back Road?
And so a lot of times, writing something super simple
(11:04):
is actually very hard. If what you're writing that's simple
still makes people feel at a deep level. And so
the other thing was, the elite songwriters, and I can
just go back to my time with Ross and Nicole,
(11:25):
like they knew all the rules, but they would write
trying to not sound like they lived by all the rules.
Like you kind of have to know the rules to
do it, but knowing the rules doesn't mean you have
to live by them because you can kind of dance
around them a little bit. Neon people never really got
(11:46):
to live and exist and win Grammys. Neon people could
have made us millions of dollars. Neon people could have
made me extremely respected in the songwriting world. Once I
finally pulled the mask off and been like, it's me.
And what I thought would be so funny was we'd
(12:07):
have a bunch of hits and I'd reveal it was
me and everybody would be like, oh, dang, he got
us again. He's always tricking us. And so for a
long time, I felt like, oh man, what a waste
that was. But then when I look back at all
the notes that I took and the songs that we
wrote and what I learned about songwriting from those probably
70 hours that we wrote songs, it's invaluable to even
(12:31):
understand songwriters and songwriting. Like I feel like I can
talk to a songwriter on such a different level because
I had a small season of my life doing it
almost like they do. Now I write a lot of stuff.
I've written books. Again, I've written songs and I think
it would be hard for someone that writes country music
(12:51):
to write a comedy song. It's a whole different animal.
But to be with the greats, to sit and write
songs with great songwriters, I'm so grateful for that time,
even though Neon People didn't work out because I got
a real look into how excellence executes and is super cool.
(13:13):
And if you guys want to check out Neon People,
you can. I don't even know where that money goes.
There ain't much money. I mean, half a million streams,
I think that gets somebody like 70 cents. So that's
what's up. This is one of my favorite songwriters, Ryan Hurd.
We're going to go and I'll do the intro and everything.
But when I talk about songwriters that write songs that
make me feel, this is one of those guys. And
(13:36):
to couple that with he's just such a great artist
as well, and it's two completely different things. So enjoy
my talk with Ryan Hurd. and my monologue about songwriting
from my very semi-limited.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Knowledge of it.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Hang tight. The Bobbycast will be right back. And we're
back on The Bobbycast.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
All right, we're about to have in Ryan Hurd, who
I do consider a friend, who... is a wonderful artist.
He's got a record coming out next year. He's got
a song out now called Glory. You should check out.
That's one of the first songs, if not the first
song of this project, another song coming out real soon
that we'll talk about. But he's written so many songs
that we'll get into. I can list some of them here.
(14:26):
Friday Night Heartbreaker from John Party, Heartless, Morgan Wallen, Diplo,
Call It A Night, Corey Kent, Luke Bryan, Sunrise, Sunburn, Sunset.
It's literally this page right here. It's so many songs.
So you're not in here. I'm just doing your intro. Yeah.
So we really get into the weeds about songwriting and
(14:46):
about artistry and about touring and sports. So here he is,
my friend and yours, Ryan Hurd. Okay, so what music
did you bring with you?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Buddy, I brought two things. And one is shameless self-promotion.
This is my last album that I signed just for you.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
It's not just for me because it doesn't say To Bobby.
That's the biggest bullcrap. I appreciate it being signed.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
But I did make them bring a Midwest rock and
roll vinyl for you, Bobby.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Be honest, though. Was that already just like a signed
vinyl that you generically signed?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
This one was. This one was. But I brought you this.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
This is a great record, by the way.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I really enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It is perfectly... It is absolutely shameless to bring that record,
but I also brought you this, and I thought, I
don't think anyone has brought you a Charlie Brown Christmas yet.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Why do you love that record?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Let me tell you why. I, when I moved into
my house, I have a six-year-old boy named Hayes, and
we've lived there for a couple years now, and one
thing that I wanted was, I wanted a turntable and
a bunch of vinyl, but I didn't want a bunch
of vinyl with words, which is a little hypocritical, because
that one does. But, This is Hayes' favorite record. We
(16:00):
play it at least once a week. I taught him
how to move the arm on the turntable.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
You play it now once a week, even though it's
not near Christmas? Yeah, man.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I'll wake up and it'll be like, you know, before
school or like in the summer. And I'll be like, well, hey, man,
go put a record on. And he'll be like, I said,
what do you want to listen to? He'll go Charlie
Brown Christmas. So we'll listen to Charlie Brown Christmas.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
What's on that one?
Speaker 2 (16:19):
This is O Tannenbaum, O Christmas Tree. And then it
has a da-na-na-da-na-na. No, wait. Anyways. It has all the
good stuff. So it's all, there's no words.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Let me see the back. Let me see if I,
that da-na-na-na is like the real Charlie Brown song.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Well, that's the real Charlie Brown.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Let's see. Christmas time is here.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
But the music to it, but no words.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah. So it's great background music, even if it's not
Christmas time.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
You're the only person, because people bring in music that
means a lot to them to add to the collection,
you're the only person that has brought in a Christmas record.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Well, you have a baby, and when you have a five-
and six-year-old, Christmas is a pretty big deal.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
We haven't had one yet at Christmas yet. My wife
is already talking about it. She's like, I can't wait
for Christmas, because our baby just turned five months. And she's,
Christmas is going to be so special. I was never
a Christmas kid. Where I come from, we didn't have them.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
But I got to be honest, I am not one.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Well, you're living it all year now.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I love watching Hayes have Christmas. For me, I'm like, yeah,
it's hard. I think it's weird as an adult. I
think Christmas is a strange time for a lot of people.
But when you watch a six-year-old get after it, you're like,
that's fun. So he loves this record. I thought it
would be a great one to donate to the cause,
(17:39):
and I'm going to have to buy him a new
one now.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
No, take this one. If this is the one he
usually listens to, we'll get another one and just put
it in your name.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
No, there's nothing specific about this record. It's just a
record I got off Amazon.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Oh, and Charlie Brown signed it. That's so sweet. Just
not to Bobby, though. It's just Charlie Brown. I'll write
that on there for you. Do you know who did
Charlie Brown without looking? No. What? The writer, the creator
of Charlie Brown.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I'm blanking. I'm 100% blanking.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
This is trivia. And I didn't see it on here,
but I know it.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, and as soon as you say it, I'm going
to be like, oh, yeah, I know who did Peanuts.
But I don't know. I can't remember. Who is it? Charles. Blanking.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Are you blanking or do you not know it?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Buddy, as soon as you say it, I'll be like, oh, yeah,
of course, because I grew up reading the comic.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Okay, but you're acting like you grew up in the
50s where newsies would be like, paper here, get your paper.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I had a paper route.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
You did? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
My dad, my grandfather was a paper guy in Chicago.
He was a circulation director for these newspapers. So my
dad had a paper route. And then when we were kids,
my mom made us be the substitute paper boy. So
we had to be substitute paper boy.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Wow, Charles Schultz.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Charles Schultz.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Thank you. Peanuts. Excellent comics. Excellent album by Vince.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I was reading an article about you yesterday, and it said,
Ryan Heard, writer slash artist. And I thought, I wonder
how he feels like he should be referred to. I
thought writer first was interesting, because that's, to me, obviously
you're a writer and you've written so many songs. But man,
I think of you as an artist first. What is
(19:19):
it with you? Oh.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Wait a... Put me in the comfort zone real quick.
I think that's probably the way I look at myself
is like I write every day. And so I do
look at myself as a writer first. That doesn't necessarily
take the artist part out of it. I think when
I was starting out, Randy Goodman at Sony wanted me
(19:42):
to be like strictly an artist first and forget the
writing part. But I just love that part. And it
has been... a huge part of my identity maybe because
i've had a lot of success as a writer and
i had success there first before i had a record
deal before i had any hits and um i don't
think it's a bad thing.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
I don't either i just if they said hey what
is ryan hurd i'd say oh he's an artist And
they'd say, well, what else is he? Well, he writes
for everybody else too. But when I saw the article,
and maybe you saw it too, I can't even quote
what it was, but it listed you as Ryan Hurd,
writer slash artist. And I thought that was so interesting
that possibly how I think of you is different than
(20:24):
how you want to be thought of.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
I would love to be thought of as an artist first.
I just, I've always, I think being a writer, you
get to hide behind anonymity a little bit more. than
you do as an artist. Like an artist, you got
to own everything. Everything you put out is you live
and die by that. And then when you're a songwriter
or any kind of writer, you sort of just throw
(20:47):
a million things at the wall and whatever's like good
enough to get off a hard drive and onto somebody's
record is what you get to stand behind. You don't
have to stand behind the 90 songs you wrote that
year that nobody cared about. It's just the 10 that
people heard. And as an artist, when you put out
a 10 song record, Every single word that you write
gets scrutinized and the success or lack thereof of that
(21:13):
record is something that you just got to own. So
I think for me, like maybe it's a crutch and
maybe it's, but yeah, I've always been a writer first.
And I think that has made me the kind of
artist that I am, of course, but, but I don't,
I don't, I don't know. I think part of me
wishes and I wish I was a better artist, But
(21:34):
I'm also, I think I am like, I write for me.
And then the things that get onto other people's records
are just things that they've connected with too.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Really? So any of the songs that you've written, and
you have a bunch of hits, you wrote those for you?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Not for my project, but I wrote those like I
was the artist. And you throw a million things up
against the wall. And I mean, like, I'll give a
couple examples. I wrote What If I Never Get Over
You for Lady A, and we didn't write that song
for Lady A. We just all had a grief story
(22:11):
that we connected with on that day. And then Charles
and Hillary and Dave heard it, and they connected with
it too. I went to the Bahamas with my new
label at Combustion. They do a songwriter festival down there
and came back and in January wrote or no, late December,
right after we got back, I just kind of used
(22:32):
that as the backdrop to write a song called Sunburn
that ended up being the name of Tucker Wetmore's EP
because he had just gone on a beach vacation too.
And you're like, oh, okay. Like those are the things
that you, I think, use in order to like Like,
(22:54):
the more you put yourself in your art, the more
other people can connect with it, I think.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Do you feel like in the past even five years,
there has been a trend toward extreme specificity in writing
more so than ever before?
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Oh, man, that's a really good question. Thank you. Extreme specificity.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Details that you think aren't universal to everyone... But you
write it and you go about this exact day or
this emotion with this certain person that maybe in the
past you'd have been a little more general about. But
you're like, F it, we're going to write so specific.
And then it ends up being the thing that people
actually relate to the most.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
I have, there's a writer that I have just like
fallen in love with their music. And one day, like
she sent a song to me and it's like, what
do you think of this? And I said, man, I
think you write really well. the more specific that you get.
So maybe, I don't know if I've thought about it
as like a general trend, but I think, I think people,
(23:57):
when they listen to music, I think people are really
smart and they don't need you to give them vagaries, right?
They need you to put words to the things that
they feel. And when you say them correctly, they can
latch onto them. And I think, yeah, maybe, maybe it's
because like there is so much music out there that
the things that get like that you can kind of
(24:18):
feel at the end of your finger, like the pinprick
of the emotion. Like maybe that's what we're talking about
because it is hard to cut through for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
That's interesting because I never thought about it that way.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
You're right.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
We are, it's an avalanche of just content or everyone's
screaming for attention through every platform, all of our devices.
And with songs, if it's not so specific, maybe it
doesn't connect.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
I think that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
For me... When I listen to Olivia Rodrigo, it is
so specific and it's so refreshing. And look, I'm not
a woman. I'm not in my twenties. There's all the
things about her that I'm not, but she can tell
a story that is so specific to her in a song.
And I go, oh, I felt that even though it's
(25:07):
not me at all. And it's so specific to her,
but I think you just nailed it.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Did you ever listen to the Joshua Sloan album?
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
That one. I think Megan Maroney too has a lot
of that in it, but like.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Megan Maroney's the only one who brought it up to
me is when I started listening to it.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Yeah. She was there talking about it and I thought
I need to listen to this.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
It's like uber specific.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Moments that like, it's almost, I don't know if I,
it's like Hemingway where you hear one side of the
conversation and I don't know, that album is ridiculous. It's like,
and I kind of do love like a guy doesn't
get the girl in the end story. That is, that
whole thing just sucked me in. And I do this
for a living every single day, not just a living,
(25:52):
but like a vocation. This is what I'm called to do.
And the reason that record is so perfect is like
you might not have experienced it that way, but you
didn't know how to say it that way because that guy,
that was his gift, right? It's like saying it in
a way that like it might not have happened to
(26:12):
you this way, but the same exact emotion is universal.
And I love that part about music. It's like, man, it,
it may not have happened the exact same way, but,
but that, that feeling, like when we did, what if
I never get over you? My mom was like, I
thought it was about a relationship. And my mom was like, man,
I feel like that about, um, like losing somebody. Like
(26:33):
I felt that about this person that we lost. And
I was like, I didn't realize that it could kind of,
I mean, it's two sides of the same coin, right?
It's all grief. Um, And I think the more specific
you get about it, the more that people are listening
can connect with it and be like, that's what I
was trying to say to myself. That's how I was
(26:54):
trying to explain it to myself. And also good writing
is just good writing. That, I don't know, I'm in
a really interesting spot in my life where like I've
used songwriting and just any kind of writing to try
to make sense of like, things that have happened to
(27:14):
me in the last few years. And, um, I don't
know if it's like the sort of thing where, where
people are like, Oh, like music's what helped me through.
But I can say that like music has, they have
been like certain songs I've written have been like little
milestones where I can look back and be like, Oh,
(27:37):
that's where I was. That's where I was in this process.
That's where I was in this grief cycle. That's where
I was. that was me finally feeling okay to feel this.
And this was me, like, coming to terms with this
part of my life. And so, yeah, man, I just,
I do think that, like, the more you, the more
(27:57):
of yourself and the more specificity, I love that word
that you used. I think it gives listeners, fans, whoever
cares about what you're doing, the opportunity to, like, really
actually connect with.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
It hang tight the bobby cast will be right back
and we're back on the bobby cast.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Do you ever have a healthy resentment about songs that
become hits for other people that you.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Wrote no not one time no no i i love
what i do and i i love the game.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Healthy resentment though I want to say it again healthy
resentment to where you think man that's awesome I love
it they kill it I think it.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Goes the other way like I think there's a lot
of artists that feel like man why I'm a good
songwriter why don't other people want to record my songs
and it's just like well it's really just it is
two completely separate jobs I do two jobs like writing
for yourself it takes me a long time to write
albums like even if they're not heavy, like I have
(29:13):
to write 200 songs a year because I'm going to
write 12 for me. And then I need to write
probably 130 or something. That's not good math, but 88,
I need to write a lot of songs to, to
get cuts on other people's record and make a living
that way. So, especially if I'm not going to tour,
like I, I need to have songs on the chart
in order to make a living. And so, um, so
(29:37):
for me, like you do have to write, write quite
a bit. I do not have any resentment. Anytime someone
records your song, and I've said this into a microphone
a lot, and I mean it a hundred percent. Anytime
someone records your song, it is a gigantic honor.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
There are some songwriters that were right on that edge
of whenever hard music was being sold and then digital
music became Apple iTunes. And, they will talk about the
money they used to make if they could get a
cut on a hard album.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
But when you could buy singles that changed for songwriters,
because some of the songs that weren't singles just weren't
getting bought anymore. That being said, you have songs with
Morgan Wallen, some that weren't singles, but I'm assuming pure assumption.
Those probably did financially pretty well for you because albums
do so well.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Uh, I don't know. I don't want to misspeak about
like the economics of this, but I do feel like
we're catching up. Like I talked, when you talk to publishers,
you talk to people that are looking at the books
all the time. Like that's, there's real money in streaming
for songwriters. It's just not quite fair compared to what
(30:42):
everybody else is making. And it's really, really, really hard
to be a new artist or a new writer right
now because like it, there's just, The economics are weighted
so much differently. But yeah, with... Like I have the 10th...
Someone told me I have the 10th diamond certified song
in country music with Morgan and Diplo. I don't know
(31:06):
how that happened. We wrote... Me, Charlie, and Earn wrote Heartless.
And like... So yeah, that song, even though it wasn't
like a number one song on the country charts, it
went to pop radio and did pretty good. And then
obviously has... streamed to the equivalent of selling 10 million songs. So.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Has that been your most financially?
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah. But then like the radio songs are like pretty,
pretty gnarly too sometimes.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
That is so funny.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Sorry. I don't know. I don't know how to talk
about that on a camera, into a camera. The one,
the one that snuck up on me was, um, what
my world spins around by Jordan. Like I wrote that
song with Jordan and Matt Dragstrom and like, like looked
up one day and I was like, that song, That
song did really, really good. People still play that song
on the radio like crazy. So that was probably my
(31:59):
second biggest one.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
The song, though, that you did for Morgan, though, Last
Drive Down Maine. Mm-hmm. Like, that's a song that I
would consider, unless you're in on the album, you probably
don't know that. If you're just gobbling up the hits.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Those are just such massive copyrights just because the streaming
is so big.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
And then, but I was, with that song, I tried
to do this thing. And it worked. It worked. And
I'm really proud of it. But like that double time,
really fast country thing, I was trying to do Kid
LAROI Stay.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
For country music. And I started with Last Drive Down Maine.
And then I started writing a bunch of them. And
then I wrote Lost for Bailey Zimmerman, which is the
exact same tempo. It's just like double time. And I
remember sitting on my porch. My manager, Tracy, is sitting
right up there. And she called me. She's like, you'll
(32:52):
never guess what happened with Lost because I knew Bailey
was going to record it. And she's like, Kid LAROI
is going to be on it. And I have a
text message that I was sending to Randy Goodman because
I pitched him a song for another artist. And I said,
I'm trying to do Kid LAROI Country. And then Kid
LAROI jumps on the exact same style of song that
I was going. And it was just like a cool
little full circle moment where like I'm bragging about myself now,
(33:15):
which feels really weird into a camera because like when
you're a writer, you're like kind of behind the scenes
and you don't want to say like, oh, I did that.
But I like. consciously tried to make that style of
country music and it turned into like a cool thing.
And I feel like I hear it a lot now
and I don't hear it. Like I just, I feel
like just like a little tiny little piece of like,
like pride in that because like those songs are not
(33:37):
like massive radio hits or anything like that, but they
are like, I have a ton of people come up
to me and talk about like, Oh man, I heard that.
And it like made me want to, it just, I
think it sped the tempo up a little bit for
country music.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
You have two different lives, I feel like, when it
comes to your art. Because, again, you're talking right now
primarily as a songwriter. You have written so many songs
as the anonymous songwriter. But also you're the guy that's
with a guitar in his hand touring.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
That feels like a different person.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
It's a different part of your brain. I don't tour
nearly as much as I used to. I played stagecoach
this year. And it was really neat because... I don't know.
You just, touring is hard right now for a lot
of people. And, um, I feel like it's, it's the most,
any people are talking about touring right now are like
(34:32):
Noah's tour and how hard it is like for everybody else.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
And, and, um, Like Noah sells out stadiums.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
And everybody else is having a really hard time. And
I'm not like, obviously, we're not begrudging anybody who's selling
out stadiums. That's awesome. Let's keep people paid. But it
is hard to tour. And I just don't do it
as much as I used to because we have a six-year-old.
And I just, when he was three, I felt like
I was missing it all. And I just, I was like,
I got to take the foot off the gas. And
people don't really talk about not just the economics of
(35:01):
like tickets, but like the economics of touring. And when
you're a songwriter... all you hear is like, all these
artists are making all the money on the road. They're
making all the money on the road. And you're like, yeah,
there's a lot of revenue, but there's a lot of
expense too. There's a massive amount of expenses out there
to where like, you think all these artists are taking
home millions of dollars just by walking out the door.
And it's like, man, a lot more of them are
(35:22):
breaking even than you think.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
What's funny about that is I have a very close
friend that would tour, I'll say pretty big, would play
amphitheater-ish shows. And would sell really well. And I would
be touring and doing theater. So far less people. But
I have no overhead. I would travel by myself. Or
I would take like some blow up letters. Or something
(35:45):
that I would just take myself. Yeah. And his math.
I made more because I had no overhead.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Than him having to take three trucks out.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Have a whole crew. When it was washed. I was
actually making more touring than he was doing an eighth.
Of the amount of tickets that he was doing.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
What does everybody say? It's not about how much you make,
it's how much you keep. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Is it possible to chase a sound to pay the
bills and also do your own thing to hopefully pay
the bills later at the same time?
Speaker 2 (36:20):
I don't know. You write so much that you're sort
of doing both at the same time without, like, I
don't know. Every time you get someone to record your song,
it's kind of a little miracle just because of how
much competition there is and also these artists are generally
really good songwriters or they wouldn't be such a good artist.
I don't know if you're like.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
And by chasing, what we're talking about is chasing whatever
the current sound is that's working right now that has
multiple hits streaming or on the radio.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I mean, you got to straddle that line pretty good, right?
Like you want it to sound current. Language is a
really big deal too. It's like understanding the language of
the genre that you want to write and lot of that.
It comes back to specificity and other things, but man,
I think, I think just like showing up every day
(37:09):
and really, really trying to make great work and push
the limits a little bit. And while it's, I mean,
you're talking about the dance, man, you're talking about like,
these are like, I don't have a great answer because
those are the questions that we ask every day when
we sit down. It's like, well, would so-and-so do this? No,
I don't think, you're just guessing. You're like truly just guessing.
I don't know, man, we could call them. Why don't
(37:32):
we just call them? Like, well, that's not really our
job today. Our job today is to make a copyright
and see if we can get anybody to buy in.
But I like taking big swings. Like to me, what
you're talking about, there's not really much of a difference
between like chasing what is current and pushing the limit
because it really is like, it really is difficult. It's
(37:58):
really difficult to cut through. And all the songs start
to sound the same. And Kenny Chesney doesn't want another
song that sounds like what Kenny did 10 years ago.
Kenny Chesney wants you to write him something that will
take him to the next part. That will be fresh.
That will be.
And all these artists that are this big, man, they don't... Like,
if you write a song that sounds like so-and-so, well,
they might not want that. Because they've already done that.
(38:21):
They're looking for the thing that keeps them current. That
takes them to the next... Takes them from theaters... to arenas.
And so sometimes that's like, I've never heard anything like that.
And I think I can pull it off. So.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Do you ever feel though, like if you write something
so unconventional, you just wasted four hours where you could
have been writing something that was a bit more conventional
that you could have actually made money to pay the
bills with?
Speaker 2 (38:42):
I feel like I waste my time all the time.
Like it's hard. It's a hard job.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
And, and I guess my hangup with the question is like,
it's so, it's so hard to get anything to land that,
like I am always just grasping, grasping at straws and
throwing stuff against the wall. And like, I wrote a
song called Love is a Truck and I can't get
anyone to record it because there's this like guitar riff
(39:11):
in it that sounds like McGee. It sounds like, or
is it McGee? How do you say that guy's name?
But he made all the, like the last Justin Bieber record.
It's all this like really lazy behind the beat, really
cool guitar riffs. And it has this like just different
kind of guitar riff in it. And you're like, It's just,
is it.
Maybe the lyric is too broad. Maybe it's not specific enough.
(39:32):
Maybe I need to spoon feed a little. Like these
are the things that you ask a million times. And,
but I do think that like, if you're writing music
that you love, that you're like, I love this. That's really,
that's helpful to artists too. And they will hear that
and they will, I think it will put you in
a position to, I just think it comes through. It's
(39:55):
like just the same, the more of yourself that you
put into a record, the more the listener connects with it.
Because like life is specific to you, but it's universal
in its, these are universal emotions. They're universal stories that like, Anyway,
that's a hard question to answer. And I think I'm
(40:16):
just rambling at this point. But I just don't think
it's as simple as like, well, we're going to write
a song that sounds like this and chase the money.
I was like, well, chasing the money kind of is like,
I'm going to write a song that no one's that's
like got one foot over here in what it's familiar,
but it's completely fresh at the same time. We're always
doing that.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
I want to end with what's going to be the
most clippable moment. I don't chase clips. I want to
let you know this is about to be a clip. Okay.
I think that would be fair and honest of me
to go, this is about to be a clip. And
this clip is going to be so strong that people
are going to watch it and go, I want to
go check out that interview. Okay. You're ready for the
most clippable moment. Now I can set you up and
tell you what I'm going to ask you because it's
(40:58):
right down the middle, the easiest thing ever. But it
is going to make you a little uncomfortable because like
you said, you struggle with talking about how successful your
stuff is. Okay. So you're going to feel a bit uncomfortable.
answer like a champ. You're a successful songwriter. You've written
some massive songs. I'm going to say one through five,
what are your most lucrative songs you've ever written? And
(41:18):
then you're going to list them one through five without
being uncomfortable about it. This is going to be the
clippable moment.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
I haven't asked you yet. I'm just letting you know
it's coming.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
I probably had like two or three in that last
little bit. Okay, here we go.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Here we go. Now, here we go. And the clip starts.
You've written so many songs, so many successful songs for people.
If you had to go one through five, the songs
that have been the most successful for you lucratively, what
would they be? Number one.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Heartless.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Morgan Wallen and Diplo Heartless. Number two.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Jordan Davis, What My World Spins Around.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
I'm not surprised that was a massive song. I'm surprised
it's at two. Surprised it's that high.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Okay. We'll keep going.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
There's so many.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
But there are.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
There are.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
I know this makes you uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Number three. Jordan, I don't know, man. That one.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Number three.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
It's a big one. Oh, what my world. No, I
just said that one. What if I never get over you?
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Lady A? Mm-hmm. Man, that's still such a good song.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
It stuck, too. Like, the ones that make... I hate
talking about this.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
I know. That's why I'm asking you.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
But that's not... Anyway, that one, it stayed. Like, it stayed.
People still play it.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
And I heard it at Walgreens like a week ago,
and that's how you know that it's a song that
everybody knows.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Walgreens has been good to me.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Number four.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Sunrise, Sunburn, Sunset.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
And the number five most lucrative song written by Ryan Hurd.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Only because it's been out the longest.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
You don't have to justify anything.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
I also haven't, I didn't bring my accountant either.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
That's okay.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Lonely Tonight with Blake Shelton and Ashley Monroe. I'm going
to say that one. Even though I don't know, I'm
going to say that one. But that was a two-way.
Some of these other ones are three, four ways, like
with writers. That was a two-way, me and Brent Anderson,
so I didn't have to split the money as much.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
You're making excuses for your success. I'm not making excuses.
You're making excuses for your success.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
That's the most, that's the humblest thing you could do. Okay, everybody,
you're watching. So Glory's out now. Also, Emergency Contact is
the next single. Maybe out now by the time you
watch this. But the record comes out in January. Am
I right about that? Full record in January. One of
my favorite people in town. Deceivingly large.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Dude, I could dunk in high school.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
Really?
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Five times.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
In a game.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Four times.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
You in-game dunked?
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yeah, a couple of them were awesome.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
All on fast breaks?
Speaker 2 (43:57):
No, one was driving the paint.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
No way. That's like the ultimate dude dream.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
It was awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Did you ever miss one in a game?
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Oh, yeah. Like, doink, off the front. Like, didn't get up. Also,
one time I was like 15 or 16 and I
went to individual camp at University of Michigan with my buddy.
And I got booed by the whole camp because I
had a fast break in the finals of the team
competition of individual camp. And I laid it up instead
of dunking it because I tried and I just didn't
(44:25):
get all the way. It's hard.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Did you guys have a rule in warm-ups that you
couldn't dunk or you'd get attacked if a ref was there?
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah. What a dumb rule.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
I know. Because we all want to see the guy
that can dunk dunk.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
We're like, well, come on!
Speaker 1 (44:37):
And then you lay it up. We're like, oh.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
But that's not a real thing anymore, is it?
Speaker 1 (44:40):
And I'm not sure that... Are we sure it was
then or was that just like urban legend?
Speaker 2 (44:43):
I think our coaches just told us I think they
really just didn't want us missing dunks and warmups.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Well, it's that. And it's also, if we're talking urban
legend and sports that we lived by, and I don't
know if it was true and it probably wasn't. It's
when someone hits a home run, don't touch them until
they touch home plate. You can touch them while you
want it.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
It was like, don't touch them. Run still counts.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Now that we're just riffing, I hit one time. I
hit three home runs in a high school baseball game too.
And guess what? One of them was a grand slam.
And guess what? We lost. We lost the game.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
You hit three home runs in a single game?
Speaker 2 (45:18):
We lost two. Yeah, but I guess I'm going to
hit the whole year.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
But you had at least six RBI in that game
if there was nobody else.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Seven.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Okay, so you hit a two-run shot.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
We lost like 14 to nine.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Was your team bad and you were the good player?
Speaker 2 (45:34):
No, we won our district one that year, but it
was our second pitcher and we were playing a pretty
good team.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Did you get intentionally walked a lot?
Speaker 2 (45:43):
No, because I was a leadoff hitter. People didn't do that.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
You batted a leadoff? I batted a leadoff, but it's
because I could run and I was slapping singles.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
I mean, I was like six foot and wiry. It
was fine.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
You grew after high school?
Speaker 2 (45:55):
I was like six, two or so.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
No, there's a big difference in six and six, two.
Like you just jumped two inches in a single year.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Yeah, I liked playing baseball a lot. I didn't like
basketball as much because up north it's like so cold
and the gym's just freezing and like your lungs are burning.
Like even in, like when you're in, I don't know. Yeah,
hit three homers in one game. Hit four the whole
season if that makes you feel better.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Wait, you hit 75% of your total home run output
in one game? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
That's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Were you playing on a softball field?
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Nope. They were, like, hammered. But, yeah, I think I was–
my buddy Drew was an All-State basketball player and All-State
baseball player, and I was, like, honorable mention All-State, I think,
my senior year.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
That's remarkable to– have dunked in a game multiple times,
and have hit home runs. I mean, it's very Kyler
Murray of you.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
Oh, thanks, man. I met Kyler Murray at Karni Mare.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
I would say top five high school athlete of all
time in America.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
I do not doubt it.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Because he... I'm just going to go from the dome here.
He was 10th, 11th, 12th grade, never lost a game,
won three state championships, in the highest classification in Texas
as a quarterback. 6A. Never lost a game obviously then
was a Heisman winner.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
First round draft pick.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
Yeah, and then was drafted at number nine overall in
baseball by Oakland. Like, top five overall high school athlete
to be both. First round baseball and then it being football, Heisman,
three state championships. That's how Ryan heard of him.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
That's a nice way to put it. So I... I
did a show for the Cardinals and they invited me
out to dinner and then Kyler had the entire offense out.
And he took him out to dinner and they introduced
me to Kyler and they're like, hey, this is Ryan Hurd.
He's a singer-songwriter here in Nashville. He's like, oh yeah,
nice to meet you, man. Like, just being polite. And
(48:02):
then he comes up to me like 20 minutes later
with his phone. This is Kyler Murray. This is not
like some random person in Nashville and he's got his phone.
He has my Spotify page up and he's just like,
is this you? I was like, yeah, that's me. He goes, dude,
I love this song. It was platonic. I was, that
was pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
Uh, Ryan, good to see you, buddy. There he is.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Appreciate you, man. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (48:22):
The wonderful Ryan Hurd. Thanks for listening to the Bobby cast.
Share this episode with a friend because they don't pay
to advertise us.
Hey guys, Bobby here. In a second, we're going to
talk with Ryan Hurd, great artist, one of my favorite
songwriters in town. A few years ago, I had an
idea and it was to create an artist that could
open up a bunch of shows at the same time.
So like a baby act, that's what they would call
in a concert. So you have like the headliner, The
(00:29):
main support's the middle act, and the baby act comes
out as soon as the concert starts, whenever everybody's just
kind of moving in. And so I had this idea,
why don't we create this baby act, and it'd be
relatively cheap, and we'd write songs for it. And it
could be 10 places at once, and it would be
basically a hologram. And it all, for me, I was
(00:50):
inspired by, I saw, it was like 60 minutes on
how in Japan, they have these artists that were full
holograms that were doing concerts. I said, why, why can't
we do this here in country music? Now this is
five years or so ago, maybe more than that. COVID
messes with my brain. So I called one of my
friends named Ross Kopperman and I said, Hey, I have
(01:11):
this idea. And Ross Kopperman, by the way, he, how
many number ones does he have? I was trying to
look that he has 43 number one songs. So And
he's written for everybody. And he's written a million massive bangers.
But he's also a very close family friend. And I said,
I had this idea. And Ross said, I like it.
(01:33):
And so I said, but I feel like we need
somebody else. And we'll go in, we'll write all these
songs together. And my history of songwriting was writing comedy
songs for the most part. Wrote a bunch of comedy songs,
did a comedy album. I did write children's songs. I
did a kid's record. And that one did pretty well.
But again, I'm writing kid's songs. Never really written songs.
the actual serious country music. But I had this idea
(01:56):
for this hologram that could be the baby opener. So
I said, let's find somebody else to be part of
our trio. But no one's ever going to know it's
us creating it. We were going to do it all anonymous.
If there was a thing I would compare it to,
it would be the Gorillaz. But they had cartoons. And
the Gorillaz is Damon Auburn, who was also Blur. And
(02:19):
so we called Nicole Galleon. And so Nicole Gallion, also
a massive songwriter in Nashville. And again, so many number
ones and she's also excited by it. So we just
started writing songs. And so Nicole Gallion, she was also
named the country songwriter of the year in 2019. She
(02:40):
got the ACM song of the year twice for Automatic
from Miranda Lambert and Dan and Shay Tequila. So we're
talking about two massive songwriters in the room with me.
And I got this idea. Let's just start writing songs
and see what we come up with. And so I
kind of gave them the vision of what I wanted
this entity to be. And we came up with the
(03:02):
name Neon People. And so we wrote a bunch of
songs as Neon People. And if you go to wherever
you get your music, there are some songs by Neon People.
And what we did is Nicole sang them. There was
no AI at the time. Nicole sang them and we
just shifted her voice slightly. But I wrote with these
two people. all-star, A-plus songwriters every week, sometimes multiple times
(03:26):
a day for six months or so. So aside from
us creating Neon People, I was able to just get
baptized by beautiful fire into songwriting. I got to cheat.
I didn't have to come up through writing with people
that came to town at the same time. And I'm
young and we're all learning together. I got to cheat.
I had this idea. I was established in my career.
(03:49):
I got two grades and we just started writing. And
then I was in the room and I was just
blown away at how good they were. Now, again, they've
written so much for so long and they're also so good.
So it's like I went and tried to learn basketball
and guess who my coach is? It's LeBron. Like that's
kind of what it felt like. And so we created
Neon People. We started putting songs out. I'm going to
(04:09):
go look now and see if they're still up. They
should be. Let's see. Neon. It's Neon PPL. I don't
even know if they're still up anymore, huh? Do you
see any neon people up there?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I think I found it.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
How do you spell it?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
One little town.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Yeah, yeah. How do you spell neon people?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
It's one word.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Neon PPL. Oh, neon PPL, one word. Got it. So
we had these songs. And up right now, I think
we have, is there just two songs up? Yeah. We
wrote a bunch. We put two up. And right before
we were actually going to go public with it, Nicole
Gallion got a job as like the president of a
record label. And she said, I can't, I can't do
(04:54):
it because there's a conflict of interest. I'm running a
record label now. And we did all these songs and
we totally understood. She's president of a record label. We
don't want her to get in trouble. Yeah, we have
one song called One Little Town that we promoted none.
It has almost half a million streams. Not bad for
something that was never promoted ever. And I always felt like, man,
(05:15):
that really could have been something. Because there was a
message behind the music. It was like positivity. It was
a cheap opener for somebody that maybe couldn't afford to
bring someone out on the road to open for them.
And they just didn't want to walk out. Totally, hey,
it's me. Thanks for coming. I'll start the show now.
But what I took from it was so much about songwriting.
(05:40):
Because we wrote so many songs. And I was very
intimidated the first three or four times that we wrote songs. Now,
this is even with people I know, but I'm watching
them do what they do. And so I don't want
to say something stupid. All I've written, I wrote kid songs.
I write comedy songs. My biggest hit is Hobby Lobby Bobby,
a song about me working at Hobby Lobby. But I
(06:03):
remember taking notes as we would finish the session and
not so much about the songs, but just from what
I was learning. And so the notes that I took,
as we're about to go to a Ryan Hurd podcast
from one of the best songwriters that I know, the
notes that I took about songwriting, is that the best
songwriters aren't always the best writers. Sometimes they're the best editors. Meaning,
(06:27):
I don't know, a lot of people can stumble on
a great line or a good line, but the skill
is knowing if that line is special or what to
cut from it or a syllable, or is it actually finished?
And how do you know? And the answer is you don't.
You never actually know but I took from watching them
(06:52):
that really good lines would get thrown out a lot,
but the really great lines were often the edited really
good lines or the cadence of that line said differently.
Another note that I had here was that I feel
like a great song and a hit song are two
(07:13):
completely different things. Some hit songs are just made to
be fun and I think there are some songwriters that
could write you a hit in 30 minutes just by
using the format of verse, pre-chorus, chorus, put a whistle
and a snap in there. They know how to make
a song that's easily to sing to. But there are
(07:33):
a lot of really unbelievable songs, unbelievable country songs that
I hear that really weren't hits. Some that even are
singles that don't go number one. I remember Eric Pasley
had a song She don't love you. She's just lonely.
And I was like, that song is amazing. And so
(07:53):
I just started playing it on my radio show and
they decided to take that and go to radio. It
was never a number one song, but it ended up
winning like a, maybe a CMA. Is that what it won?
I think so.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
She don't love you. CMA. And that's because it was
such a great song. And again, It wasn't a hit song. Oh, NSAI,
10 Songs I Wish I'd Written. Yeah, but maybe it
was nominated for a CMA.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Oh, maybe so, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Yeah, but even like songwriters in town, because I don't
know if you heard Brandon or not, but it was
listed as one of the songs that year that other
songwriters had wished they had written. But I got that
from it. I also think that in songwriting, that might
be the only art form where being technically better can
sometimes make you worse. which is counterintuitive. Because I think
(08:51):
when you're first starting, especially me, when I first started
writing with real songwriters, I was going, okay, okay, okay.
Structure and rhyme scheme. I love when they do the
phrase turn. Okay, I got to find that. But then
I would start to leave out some of the human
of it. That didn't always fit, but that's often okay.
(09:12):
So the better you get sometimes, makes you worse. Now,
that being said, if you have the awareness to be
a really great songwriter and know all of the technicalities,
but still not let them own the session or the song,
like that's where it is. From my very limited six
(09:35):
months a year of writing songs, that's where it was.
It was always weird to me too, talking to them
was that I felt like songwriters are have it harder
as time goes on because we've heard every idea. There's
thousands of songs being written every single day. And you
(09:55):
feel like you've heard every idea. And I would say that, like,
how do you write something new? And it's often, well,
you don't write something wholly new as a concept, but
how that concept affects you, how it affects others. Sing
it from a different perspective. But there's so many ways to,
how do they say, chop up the cat? What do
(10:17):
they say, slice the cat? Skin of cat. Hey, that
poor cat is just getting mutilated right now. Another thing
was making the song simple without making it stupid. And
there is a fine line. To have a really great
song that is simple, anybody feels like they could have
(10:40):
written it, but nobody else did. It's one of those songs,
and I can give you an example. I remember when
Sam Hunt had Body Like a Back Road, and I
would hear Haters in Town. that were songwriters. That song
is so simple. Anybody could have written that. Okay. Well,
why didn't you? And maybe not that one. Why didn't
you write another simple song or any song at all
that had the success of Body Like a Back Road?
And so a lot of times, writing something super simple
(11:04):
is actually very hard. If what you're writing that's simple
still makes people feel at a deep level. And so
the other thing was, the elite songwriters, and I can
just go back to my time with Ross and Nicole,
(11:25):
like they knew all the rules, but they would write
trying to not sound like they lived by all the rules.
Like you kind of have to know the rules to
do it, but knowing the rules doesn't mean you have
to live by them because you can kind of dance
around them a little bit. Neon people never really got
(11:46):
to live and exist and win Grammys. Neon people could
have made us millions of dollars. Neon people could have
made me extremely respected in the songwriting world. Once I
finally pulled the mask off and been like, it's me.
And what I thought would be so funny was we'd
(12:07):
have a bunch of hits and I'd reveal it was
me and everybody would be like, oh, dang, he got
us again. He's always tricking us. And so for a
long time, I felt like, oh man, what a waste
that was. But then when I look back at all
the notes that I took and the songs that we
wrote and what I learned about songwriting from those probably
70 hours that we wrote songs, it's invaluable to even
(12:31):
understand songwriters and songwriting. Like I feel like I can
talk to a songwriter on such a different level because
I had a small season of my life doing it
almost like they do. Now I write a lot of stuff.
I've written books. Again, I've written songs and I think
it would be hard for someone that writes country music
(12:51):
to write a comedy song. It's a whole different animal.
But to be with the greats, to sit and write
songs with great songwriters, I'm so grateful for that time,
even though Neon People didn't work out because I got
a real look into how excellence executes and is super cool.
(13:13):
And if you guys want to check out Neon People,
you can. I don't even know where that money goes.
There ain't much money. I mean, half a million streams,
I think that gets somebody like 70 cents. So that's
what's up. This is one of my favorite songwriters, Ryan Hurd.
We're going to go and I'll do the intro and everything.
But when I talk about songwriters that write songs that
make me feel, this is one of those guys. And
(13:36):
to couple that with he's just such a great artist
as well, and it's two completely different things. So enjoy
my talk with Ryan Hurd. and my monologue about songwriting
from my very semi-limited.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Knowledge of it.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Hang tight. The Bobbycast will be right back. And we're
back on The Bobbycast.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
All right, we're about to have in Ryan Hurd, who
I do consider a friend, who... is a wonderful artist.
He's got a record coming out next year. He's got
a song out now called Glory. You should check out.
That's one of the first songs, if not the first
song of this project, another song coming out real soon
that we'll talk about. But he's written so many songs
that we'll get into. I can list some of them here.
(14:26):
Friday Night Heartbreaker from John Party, Heartless, Morgan Wallen, Diplo,
Call It A Night, Corey Kent, Luke Bryan, Sunrise, Sunburn, Sunset.
It's literally this page right here. It's so many songs.
So you're not in here. I'm just doing your intro. Yeah.
So we really get into the weeds about songwriting and
(14:46):
about artistry and about touring and sports. So here he is,
my friend and yours, Ryan Hurd. Okay, so what music
did you bring with you?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Buddy, I brought two things. And one is shameless self-promotion.
This is my last album that I signed just for you.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
It's not just for me because it doesn't say To Bobby.
That's the biggest bullcrap. I appreciate it being signed.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
But I did make them bring a Midwest rock and
roll vinyl for you, Bobby.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Be honest, though. Was that already just like a signed
vinyl that you generically signed?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
This one was. This one was. But I brought you this.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
This is a great record, by the way.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I really enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It is perfectly... It is absolutely shameless to bring that record,
but I also brought you this, and I thought, I
don't think anyone has brought you a Charlie Brown Christmas yet.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Why do you love that record?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Let me tell you why. I, when I moved into
my house, I have a six-year-old boy named Hayes, and
we've lived there for a couple years now, and one
thing that I wanted was, I wanted a turntable and
a bunch of vinyl, but I didn't want a bunch
of vinyl with words, which is a little hypocritical, because
that one does. But, This is Hayes' favorite record. We
(16:00):
play it at least once a week. I taught him
how to move the arm on the turntable.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
You play it now once a week, even though it's
not near Christmas? Yeah, man.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I'll wake up and it'll be like, you know, before
school or like in the summer. And I'll be like, well, hey, man,
go put a record on. And he'll be like, I said,
what do you want to listen to? He'll go Charlie
Brown Christmas. So we'll listen to Charlie Brown Christmas.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
What's on that one?
Speaker 2 (16:19):
This is O Tannenbaum, O Christmas Tree. And then it
has a da-na-na-da-na-na. No, wait. Anyways. It has all the
good stuff. So it's all, there's no words.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Let me see the back. Let me see if I,
that da-na-na-na is like the real Charlie Brown song.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Well, that's the real Charlie Brown.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Let's see. Christmas time is here.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
But the music to it, but no words.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah. So it's great background music, even if it's not
Christmas time.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
You're the only person, because people bring in music that
means a lot to them to add to the collection,
you're the only person that has brought in a Christmas record.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Well, you have a baby, and when you have a five-
and six-year-old, Christmas is a pretty big deal.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
We haven't had one yet at Christmas yet. My wife
is already talking about it. She's like, I can't wait
for Christmas, because our baby just turned five months. And she's,
Christmas is going to be so special. I was never
a Christmas kid. Where I come from, we didn't have them.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
But I got to be honest, I am not one.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Well, you're living it all year now.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I love watching Hayes have Christmas. For me, I'm like, yeah,
it's hard. I think it's weird as an adult. I
think Christmas is a strange time for a lot of people.
But when you watch a six-year-old get after it, you're like,
that's fun. So he loves this record. I thought it
would be a great one to donate to the cause,
(17:39):
and I'm going to have to buy him a new
one now.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
No, take this one. If this is the one he
usually listens to, we'll get another one and just put
it in your name.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
No, there's nothing specific about this record. It's just a
record I got off Amazon.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Oh, and Charlie Brown signed it. That's so sweet. Just
not to Bobby, though. It's just Charlie Brown. I'll write
that on there for you. Do you know who did
Charlie Brown without looking? No. What? The writer, the creator
of Charlie Brown.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I'm blanking. I'm 100% blanking.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
This is trivia. And I didn't see it on here,
but I know it.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, and as soon as you say it, I'm going
to be like, oh, yeah, I know who did Peanuts.
But I don't know. I can't remember. Who is it? Charles. Blanking.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Are you blanking or do you not know it?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Buddy, as soon as you say it, I'll be like, oh, yeah,
of course, because I grew up reading the comic.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Okay, but you're acting like you grew up in the
50s where newsies would be like, paper here, get your paper.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I had a paper route.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
You did? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
My dad, my grandfather was a paper guy in Chicago.
He was a circulation director for these newspapers. So my
dad had a paper route. And then when we were kids,
my mom made us be the substitute paper boy. So
we had to be substitute paper boy.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Wow, Charles Schultz.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Charles Schultz.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Thank you. Peanuts. Excellent comics. Excellent album by Vince.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I was reading an article about you yesterday, and it said,
Ryan Heard, writer slash artist. And I thought, I wonder
how he feels like he should be referred to. I
thought writer first was interesting, because that's, to me, obviously
you're a writer and you've written so many songs. But man,
I think of you as an artist first. What is
(19:19):
it with you? Oh.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Wait a... Put me in the comfort zone real quick.
I think that's probably the way I look at myself
is like I write every day. And so I do
look at myself as a writer first. That doesn't necessarily
take the artist part out of it. I think when
I was starting out, Randy Goodman at Sony wanted me
(19:42):
to be like strictly an artist first and forget the
writing part. But I just love that part. And it
has been... a huge part of my identity maybe because
i've had a lot of success as a writer and
i had success there first before i had a record
deal before i had any hits and um i don't
think it's a bad thing.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
I don't either i just if they said hey what
is ryan hurd i'd say oh he's an artist And
they'd say, well, what else is he? Well, he writes
for everybody else too. But when I saw the article,
and maybe you saw it too, I can't even quote
what it was, but it listed you as Ryan Hurd,
writer slash artist. And I thought that was so interesting
that possibly how I think of you is different than
(20:24):
how you want to be thought of.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
I would love to be thought of as an artist first.
I just, I've always, I think being a writer, you
get to hide behind anonymity a little bit more. than
you do as an artist. Like an artist, you got
to own everything. Everything you put out is you live
and die by that. And then when you're a songwriter
or any kind of writer, you sort of just throw
(20:47):
a million things at the wall and whatever's like good
enough to get off a hard drive and onto somebody's
record is what you get to stand behind. You don't
have to stand behind the 90 songs you wrote that
year that nobody cared about. It's just the 10 that
people heard. And as an artist, when you put out
a 10 song record, Every single word that you write
gets scrutinized and the success or lack thereof of that
(21:13):
record is something that you just got to own. So
I think for me, like maybe it's a crutch and
maybe it's, but yeah, I've always been a writer first.
And I think that has made me the kind of
artist that I am, of course, but, but I don't,
I don't, I don't know. I think part of me
wishes and I wish I was a better artist, But
(21:34):
I'm also, I think I am like, I write for me.
And then the things that get onto other people's records
are just things that they've connected with too.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Really? So any of the songs that you've written, and
you have a bunch of hits, you wrote those for you?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Not for my project, but I wrote those like I
was the artist. And you throw a million things up
against the wall. And I mean, like, I'll give a
couple examples. I wrote What If I Never Get Over
You for Lady A, and we didn't write that song
for Lady A. We just all had a grief story
(22:11):
that we connected with on that day. And then Charles
and Hillary and Dave heard it, and they connected with
it too. I went to the Bahamas with my new
label at Combustion. They do a songwriter festival down there
and came back and in January wrote or no, late December,
right after we got back, I just kind of used
(22:32):
that as the backdrop to write a song called Sunburn
that ended up being the name of Tucker Wetmore's EP
because he had just gone on a beach vacation too.
And you're like, oh, okay. Like those are the things
that you, I think, use in order to like Like,
(22:54):
the more you put yourself in your art, the more
other people can connect with it, I think.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Do you feel like in the past even five years,
there has been a trend toward extreme specificity in writing
more so than ever before?
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Oh, man, that's a really good question. Thank you. Extreme specificity.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Details that you think aren't universal to everyone... But you
write it and you go about this exact day or
this emotion with this certain person that maybe in the
past you'd have been a little more general about. But
you're like, F it, we're going to write so specific.
And then it ends up being the thing that people
actually relate to the most.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
I have, there's a writer that I have just like
fallen in love with their music. And one day, like
she sent a song to me and it's like, what
do you think of this? And I said, man, I
think you write really well. the more specific that you get.
So maybe, I don't know if I've thought about it
as like a general trend, but I think, I think people,
(23:57):
when they listen to music, I think people are really
smart and they don't need you to give them vagaries, right?
They need you to put words to the things that
they feel. And when you say them correctly, they can
latch onto them. And I think, yeah, maybe, maybe it's
because like there is so much music out there that
the things that get like that you can kind of
(24:18):
feel at the end of your finger, like the pinprick
of the emotion. Like maybe that's what we're talking about
because it is hard to cut through for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
That's interesting because I never thought about it that way.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
You're right.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
We are, it's an avalanche of just content or everyone's
screaming for attention through every platform, all of our devices.
And with songs, if it's not so specific, maybe it
doesn't connect.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
I think that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
For me... When I listen to Olivia Rodrigo, it is
so specific and it's so refreshing. And look, I'm not
a woman. I'm not in my twenties. There's all the
things about her that I'm not, but she can tell
a story that is so specific to her in a song.
And I go, oh, I felt that even though it's
(25:07):
not me at all. And it's so specific to her,
but I think you just nailed it.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Did you ever listen to the Joshua Sloan album?
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
That one. I think Megan Maroney too has a lot
of that in it, but like.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Megan Maroney's the only one who brought it up to
me is when I started listening to it.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Yeah. She was there talking about it and I thought
I need to listen to this.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
It's like uber specific.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Moments that like, it's almost, I don't know if I,
it's like Hemingway where you hear one side of the
conversation and I don't know, that album is ridiculous. It's like,
and I kind of do love like a guy doesn't
get the girl in the end story. That is, that
whole thing just sucked me in. And I do this
for a living every single day, not just a living,
(25:52):
but like a vocation. This is what I'm called to do.
And the reason that record is so perfect is like
you might not have experienced it that way, but you
didn't know how to say it that way because that guy,
that was his gift, right? It's like saying it in
a way that like it might not have happened to
(26:12):
you this way, but the same exact emotion is universal.
And I love that part about music. It's like, man, it,
it may not have happened the exact same way, but,
but that, that feeling, like when we did, what if
I never get over you? My mom was like, I
thought it was about a relationship. And my mom was like, man,
I feel like that about, um, like losing somebody. Like
(26:33):
I felt that about this person that we lost. And
I was like, I didn't realize that it could kind of,
I mean, it's two sides of the same coin, right?
It's all grief. Um, And I think the more specific
you get about it, the more that people are listening
can connect with it and be like, that's what I
was trying to say to myself. That's how I was
(26:54):
trying to explain it to myself. And also good writing
is just good writing. That, I don't know, I'm in
a really interesting spot in my life where like I've
used songwriting and just any kind of writing to try
to make sense of like, things that have happened to
(27:14):
me in the last few years. And, um, I don't
know if it's like the sort of thing where, where
people are like, Oh, like music's what helped me through.
But I can say that like music has, they have
been like certain songs I've written have been like little
milestones where I can look back and be like, Oh,
(27:37):
that's where I was. That's where I was in this process.
That's where I was in this grief cycle. That's where
I was. that was me finally feeling okay to feel this.
And this was me, like, coming to terms with this
part of my life. And so, yeah, man, I just,
I do think that, like, the more you, the more
(27:57):
of yourself and the more specificity, I love that word
that you used. I think it gives listeners, fans, whoever
cares about what you're doing, the opportunity to, like, really
actually connect with.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
It hang tight the bobby cast will be right back
and we're back on the bobby cast.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Do you ever have a healthy resentment about songs that
become hits for other people that you.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Wrote no not one time no no i i love
what i do and i i love the game.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Healthy resentment though I want to say it again healthy
resentment to where you think man that's awesome I love
it they kill it I think it.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Goes the other way like I think there's a lot
of artists that feel like man why I'm a good
songwriter why don't other people want to record my songs
and it's just like well it's really just it is
two completely separate jobs I do two jobs like writing
for yourself it takes me a long time to write
albums like even if they're not heavy, like I have
(29:13):
to write 200 songs a year because I'm going to
write 12 for me. And then I need to write
probably 130 or something. That's not good math, but 88,
I need to write a lot of songs to, to
get cuts on other people's record and make a living
that way. So, especially if I'm not going to tour,
like I, I need to have songs on the chart
in order to make a living. And so, um, so
(29:37):
for me, like you do have to write, write quite
a bit. I do not have any resentment. Anytime someone
records your song, and I've said this into a microphone
a lot, and I mean it a hundred percent. Anytime
someone records your song, it is a gigantic honor.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
There are some songwriters that were right on that edge
of whenever hard music was being sold and then digital
music became Apple iTunes. And, they will talk about the
money they used to make if they could get a
cut on a hard album.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
But when you could buy singles that changed for songwriters,
because some of the songs that weren't singles just weren't
getting bought anymore. That being said, you have songs with
Morgan Wallen, some that weren't singles, but I'm assuming pure assumption.
Those probably did financially pretty well for you because albums
do so well.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Uh, I don't know. I don't want to misspeak about
like the economics of this, but I do feel like
we're catching up. Like I talked, when you talk to publishers,
you talk to people that are looking at the books
all the time. Like that's, there's real money in streaming
for songwriters. It's just not quite fair compared to what
(30:42):
everybody else is making. And it's really, really, really hard
to be a new artist or a new writer right
now because like it, there's just, The economics are weighted
so much differently. But yeah, with... Like I have the 10th...
Someone told me I have the 10th diamond certified song
in country music with Morgan and Diplo. I don't know
(31:06):
how that happened. We wrote... Me, Charlie, and Earn wrote Heartless.
And like... So yeah, that song, even though it wasn't
like a number one song on the country charts, it
went to pop radio and did pretty good. And then
obviously has... streamed to the equivalent of selling 10 million songs. So.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Has that been your most financially?
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah. But then like the radio songs are like pretty,
pretty gnarly too sometimes.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
That is so funny.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Sorry. I don't know. I don't know how to talk
about that on a camera, into a camera. The one,
the one that snuck up on me was, um, what
my world spins around by Jordan. Like I wrote that
song with Jordan and Matt Dragstrom and like, like looked
up one day and I was like, that song, That
song did really, really good. People still play that song
on the radio like crazy. So that was probably my
(31:59):
second biggest one.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
The song, though, that you did for Morgan, though, Last
Drive Down Maine. Mm-hmm. Like, that's a song that I
would consider, unless you're in on the album, you probably
don't know that. If you're just gobbling up the hits.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Those are just such massive copyrights just because the streaming
is so big.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
And then, but I was, with that song, I tried
to do this thing. And it worked. It worked. And
I'm really proud of it. But like that double time,
really fast country thing, I was trying to do Kid
LAROI Stay.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
For country music. And I started with Last Drive Down Maine.
And then I started writing a bunch of them. And
then I wrote Lost for Bailey Zimmerman, which is the
exact same tempo. It's just like double time. And I
remember sitting on my porch. My manager, Tracy, is sitting
right up there. And she called me. She's like, you'll
(32:52):
never guess what happened with Lost because I knew Bailey
was going to record it. And she's like, Kid LAROI
is going to be on it. And I have a
text message that I was sending to Randy Goodman because
I pitched him a song for another artist. And I said,
I'm trying to do Kid LAROI Country. And then Kid
LAROI jumps on the exact same style of song that
I was going. And it was just like a cool
little full circle moment where like I'm bragging about myself now,
(33:15):
which feels really weird into a camera because like when
you're a writer, you're like kind of behind the scenes
and you don't want to say like, oh, I did that.
But I like. consciously tried to make that style of
country music and it turned into like a cool thing.
And I feel like I hear it a lot now
and I don't hear it. Like I just, I feel
like just like a little tiny little piece of like,
like pride in that because like those songs are not
(33:37):
like massive radio hits or anything like that, but they
are like, I have a ton of people come up
to me and talk about like, Oh man, I heard that.
And it like made me want to, it just, I
think it sped the tempo up a little bit for
country music.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
You have two different lives, I feel like, when it
comes to your art. Because, again, you're talking right now
primarily as a songwriter. You have written so many songs
as the anonymous songwriter. But also you're the guy that's
with a guitar in his hand touring.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
That feels like a different person.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
It's a different part of your brain. I don't tour
nearly as much as I used to. I played stagecoach
this year. And it was really neat because... I don't know.
You just, touring is hard right now for a lot
of people. And, um, I feel like it's, it's the most,
any people are talking about touring right now are like
(34:32):
Noah's tour and how hard it is like for everybody else.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
And, and, um, Like Noah sells out stadiums.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
And everybody else is having a really hard time. And
I'm not like, obviously, we're not begrudging anybody who's selling
out stadiums. That's awesome. Let's keep people paid. But it
is hard to tour. And I just don't do it
as much as I used to because we have a six-year-old.
And I just, when he was three, I felt like
I was missing it all. And I just, I was like,
I got to take the foot off the gas. And
people don't really talk about not just the economics of
(35:01):
like tickets, but like the economics of touring. And when
you're a songwriter... all you hear is like, all these
artists are making all the money on the road. They're
making all the money on the road. And you're like, yeah,
there's a lot of revenue, but there's a lot of
expense too. There's a massive amount of expenses out there
to where like, you think all these artists are taking
home millions of dollars just by walking out the door.
And it's like, man, a lot more of them are
(35:22):
breaking even than you think.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
What's funny about that is I have a very close
friend that would tour, I'll say pretty big, would play
amphitheater-ish shows. And would sell really well. And I would
be touring and doing theater. So far less people. But
I have no overhead. I would travel by myself. Or
I would take like some blow up letters. Or something
(35:45):
that I would just take myself. Yeah. And his math.
I made more because I had no overhead.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Than him having to take three trucks out.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Have a whole crew. When it was washed. I was
actually making more touring than he was doing an eighth.
Of the amount of tickets that he was doing.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
What does everybody say? It's not about how much you make,
it's how much you keep. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Is it possible to chase a sound to pay the
bills and also do your own thing to hopefully pay
the bills later at the same time?
Speaker 2 (36:20):
I don't know. You write so much that you're sort
of doing both at the same time without, like, I
don't know. Every time you get someone to record your song,
it's kind of a little miracle just because of how
much competition there is and also these artists are generally
really good songwriters or they wouldn't be such a good artist.
I don't know if you're like.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
And by chasing, what we're talking about is chasing whatever
the current sound is that's working right now that has
multiple hits streaming or on the radio.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I mean, you got to straddle that line pretty good, right?
Like you want it to sound current. Language is a
really big deal too. It's like understanding the language of
the genre that you want to write and lot of that.
It comes back to specificity and other things, but man,
I think, I think just like showing up every day
(37:09):
and really, really trying to make great work and push
the limits a little bit. And while it's, I mean,
you're talking about the dance, man, you're talking about like,
these are like, I don't have a great answer because
those are the questions that we ask every day when
we sit down. It's like, well, would so-and-so do this? No,
I don't think, you're just guessing. You're like truly just guessing.
I don't know, man, we could call them. Why don't
(37:32):
we just call them? Like, well, that's not really our
job today. Our job today is to make a copyright
and see if we can get anybody to buy in.
But I like taking big swings. Like to me, what
you're talking about, there's not really much of a difference
between like chasing what is current and pushing the limit
because it really is like, it really is difficult. It's
(37:58):
really difficult to cut through. And all the songs start
to sound the same. And Kenny Chesney doesn't want another
song that sounds like what Kenny did 10 years ago.
Kenny Chesney wants you to write him something that will
take him to the next part. That will be fresh.
That will be.
And all these artists that are this big, man, they don't... Like,
if you write a song that sounds like so-and-so, well,
they might not want that. Because they've already done that.
(38:21):
They're looking for the thing that keeps them current. That
takes them to the next... Takes them from theaters... to arenas.
And so sometimes that's like, I've never heard anything like that.
And I think I can pull it off. So.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Do you ever feel though, like if you write something
so unconventional, you just wasted four hours where you could
have been writing something that was a bit more conventional
that you could have actually made money to pay the
bills with?
Speaker 2 (38:42):
I feel like I waste my time all the time.
Like it's hard. It's a hard job.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
And, and I guess my hangup with the question is like,
it's so, it's so hard to get anything to land that,
like I am always just grasping, grasping at straws and
throwing stuff against the wall. And like, I wrote a
song called Love is a Truck and I can't get
anyone to record it because there's this like guitar riff
(39:11):
in it that sounds like McGee. It sounds like, or
is it McGee? How do you say that guy's name?
But he made all the, like the last Justin Bieber record.
It's all this like really lazy behind the beat, really
cool guitar riffs. And it has this like just different
kind of guitar riff in it. And you're like, It's just,
is it.
Maybe the lyric is too broad. Maybe it's not specific enough.
(39:32):
Maybe I need to spoon feed a little. Like these
are the things that you ask a million times. And,
but I do think that like, if you're writing music
that you love, that you're like, I love this. That's really,
that's helpful to artists too. And they will hear that
and they will, I think it will put you in
a position to, I just think it comes through. It's
(39:55):
like just the same, the more of yourself that you
put into a record, the more the listener connects with it.
Because like life is specific to you, but it's universal
in its, these are universal emotions. They're universal stories that like, Anyway,
that's a hard question to answer. And I think I'm
(40:16):
just rambling at this point. But I just don't think
it's as simple as like, well, we're going to write
a song that sounds like this and chase the money.
I was like, well, chasing the money kind of is like,
I'm going to write a song that no one's that's
like got one foot over here in what it's familiar,
but it's completely fresh at the same time. We're always
doing that.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
I want to end with what's going to be the
most clippable moment. I don't chase clips. I want to
let you know this is about to be a clip. Okay.
I think that would be fair and honest of me
to go, this is about to be a clip. And
this clip is going to be so strong that people
are going to watch it and go, I want to
go check out that interview. Okay. You're ready for the
most clippable moment. Now I can set you up and
tell you what I'm going to ask you because it's
(40:58):
right down the middle, the easiest thing ever. But it
is going to make you a little uncomfortable because like
you said, you struggle with talking about how successful your
stuff is. Okay. So you're going to feel a bit uncomfortable.
answer like a champ. You're a successful songwriter. You've written
some massive songs. I'm going to say one through five,
what are your most lucrative songs you've ever written? And
(41:18):
then you're going to list them one through five without
being uncomfortable about it. This is going to be the
clippable moment.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
I haven't asked you yet. I'm just letting you know
it's coming.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
I probably had like two or three in that last
little bit. Okay, here we go.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Here we go. Now, here we go. And the clip starts.
You've written so many songs, so many successful songs for people.
If you had to go one through five, the songs
that have been the most successful for you lucratively, what
would they be? Number one.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Heartless.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Morgan Wallen and Diplo Heartless. Number two.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Jordan Davis, What My World Spins Around.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
I'm not surprised that was a massive song. I'm surprised
it's at two. Surprised it's that high.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Okay. We'll keep going.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
There's so many.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
But there are.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
There are.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
I know this makes you uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Number three. Jordan, I don't know, man. That one.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Number three.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
It's a big one. Oh, what my world. No, I
just said that one. What if I never get over you?
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Lady A? Mm-hmm. Man, that's still such a good song.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
It stuck, too. Like, the ones that make... I hate
talking about this.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
I know. That's why I'm asking you.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
But that's not... Anyway, that one, it stayed. Like, it stayed.
People still play it.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
And I heard it at Walgreens like a week ago,
and that's how you know that it's a song that
everybody knows.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Walgreens has been good to me.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Number four.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Sunrise, Sunburn, Sunset.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
And the number five most lucrative song written by Ryan Hurd.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Only because it's been out the longest.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
You don't have to justify anything.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
I also haven't, I didn't bring my accountant either.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
That's okay.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Lonely Tonight with Blake Shelton and Ashley Monroe. I'm going
to say that one. Even though I don't know, I'm
going to say that one. But that was a two-way.
Some of these other ones are three, four ways, like
with writers. That was a two-way, me and Brent Anderson,
so I didn't have to split the money as much.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
You're making excuses for your success. I'm not making excuses.
You're making excuses for your success.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
That's the most, that's the humblest thing you could do. Okay, everybody,
you're watching. So Glory's out now. Also, Emergency Contact is
the next single. Maybe out now by the time you
watch this. But the record comes out in January. Am
I right about that? Full record in January. One of
my favorite people in town. Deceivingly large.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Dude, I could dunk in high school.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
Really?
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Five times.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
In a game.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Four times.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
You in-game dunked?
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yeah, a couple of them were awesome.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
All on fast breaks?
Speaker 2 (43:57):
No, one was driving the paint.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
No way. That's like the ultimate dude dream.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
It was awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Did you ever miss one in a game?
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Oh, yeah. Like, doink, off the front. Like, didn't get up. Also,
one time I was like 15 or 16 and I
went to individual camp at University of Michigan with my buddy.
And I got booed by the whole camp because I
had a fast break in the finals of the team
competition of individual camp. And I laid it up instead
of dunking it because I tried and I just didn't
(44:25):
get all the way. It's hard.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Did you guys have a rule in warm-ups that you
couldn't dunk or you'd get attacked if a ref was there?
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah. What a dumb rule.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
I know. Because we all want to see the guy
that can dunk dunk.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
We're like, well, come on!
Speaker 1 (44:37):
And then you lay it up. We're like, oh.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
But that's not a real thing anymore, is it?
Speaker 1 (44:40):
And I'm not sure that... Are we sure it was
then or was that just like urban legend?
Speaker 2 (44:43):
I think our coaches just told us I think they
really just didn't want us missing dunks and warmups.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Well, it's that. And it's also, if we're talking urban
legend and sports that we lived by, and I don't
know if it was true and it probably wasn't. It's
when someone hits a home run, don't touch them until
they touch home plate. You can touch them while you
want it.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
It was like, don't touch them. Run still counts.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Now that we're just riffing, I hit one time. I
hit three home runs in a high school baseball game too.
And guess what? One of them was a grand slam.
And guess what? We lost. We lost the game.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
You hit three home runs in a single game?
Speaker 2 (45:18):
We lost two. Yeah, but I guess I'm going to
hit the whole year.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
But you had at least six RBI in that game
if there was nobody else.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Seven.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Okay, so you hit a two-run shot.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
We lost like 14 to nine.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Was your team bad and you were the good player?
Speaker 2 (45:34):
No, we won our district one that year, but it
was our second pitcher and we were playing a pretty
good team.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Did you get intentionally walked a lot?
Speaker 2 (45:43):
No, because I was a leadoff hitter. People didn't do that.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
You batted a leadoff? I batted a leadoff, but it's
because I could run and I was slapping singles.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
I mean, I was like six foot and wiry. It
was fine.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
You grew after high school?
Speaker 2 (45:55):
I was like six, two or so.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
No, there's a big difference in six and six, two.
Like you just jumped two inches in a single year.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Yeah, I liked playing baseball a lot. I didn't like
basketball as much because up north it's like so cold
and the gym's just freezing and like your lungs are burning.
Like even in, like when you're in, I don't know. Yeah,
hit three homers in one game. Hit four the whole
season if that makes you feel better.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Wait, you hit 75% of your total home run output
in one game? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
That's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Were you playing on a softball field?
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Nope. They were, like, hammered. But, yeah, I think I was–
my buddy Drew was an All-State basketball player and All-State
baseball player, and I was, like, honorable mention All-State, I think,
my senior year.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
That's remarkable to– have dunked in a game multiple times,
and have hit home runs. I mean, it's very Kyler
Murray of you.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
Oh, thanks, man. I met Kyler Murray at Karni Mare.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
I would say top five high school athlete of all
time in America.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
I do not doubt it.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Because he... I'm just going to go from the dome here.
He was 10th, 11th, 12th grade, never lost a game,
won three state championships, in the highest classification in Texas
as a quarterback. 6A. Never lost a game obviously then
was a Heisman winner.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
First round draft pick.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
Yeah, and then was drafted at number nine overall in
baseball by Oakland. Like, top five overall high school athlete
to be both. First round baseball and then it being football, Heisman,
three state championships. That's how Ryan heard of him.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
That's a nice way to put it. So I... I
did a show for the Cardinals and they invited me
out to dinner and then Kyler had the entire offense out.
And he took him out to dinner and they introduced
me to Kyler and they're like, hey, this is Ryan Hurd.
He's a singer-songwriter here in Nashville. He's like, oh yeah,
nice to meet you, man. Like, just being polite. And
(48:02):
then he comes up to me like 20 minutes later
with his phone. This is Kyler Murray. This is not
like some random person in Nashville and he's got his phone.
He has my Spotify page up and he's just like,
is this you? I was like, yeah, that's me. He goes, dude,
I love this song. It was platonic. I was, that
was pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
Uh, Ryan, good to see you, buddy. There he is.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Appreciate you, man. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (48:22):
The wonderful Ryan Hurd. Thanks for listening to the Bobby cast.
Share this episode with a friend because they don't pay
to advertise us.
Host
Bobby Bones
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