#480 - Madeline Merlo on How Keith Urban Almost Made Her Crash Her Car

Bobby sat down with Canadian artist, Madeline Merlo. Madeline talked about her journey from Canada, listening to the BobbyCast when she moved to Nashville, and the time she met Shania Twain on the night she performed a tribute for the country legend. Plus, Madeline discussed how she was able to get Keith Urban to do a solo on her song, despite being told the odds of it happening landing at under 20%. She also told Bobby about the time she was in a movie and how that paid her way to Nashville, and much more! 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
When Zach and I finished the production for A One
House Down, I knew that he knew him. I said,
would you text him this song and ask him to
play Soolow on it? And Zach was like, I'd give
it nineteen percent chance that he says yes, And I
said I'll take ninety percent and he said yes.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
I did not know she was on Songland. Do you
know that? I didn't know that. Huh? And Songland just
took like really good songwriters. Her name is Madeline Merlow.
I really enjoyed talking with her. I have this thing
where I walked down to the studio if I've never
met the person, I knew what she looked like because
I'd seen her on Dustin Lynch's Instagram. And there's always

(00:49):
that first three or four minutes of any interview where
you're kind of like early in a boxing magic, kind
of circling each other their houses, gonna work. And I
feel like, at like three or four minutes we were like, oh, okay,
we got some stuff we can talk about. I thought
the clique, Yeah, there was a click, especially when she
was volunteering like her time in therapy, and I'm like, oh,
I can I can go there and that'll open us
up to a lot of other things, because that's as

(01:10):
vulnerable as it gets when you start talking about like
your feelings and your insecurities. And then it was like
I liked her, and so I thought it went pretty good.
She grew up in Maple Ridge, BC, Canada, which is
left side right Vancouver. She said, near Vancouver. That's like
the California version of Canada, way over there. Her father

(01:34):
was a funk musician, which we found out she wasn't
with him a lot. So I was like, hey, your
dad played, but she's like yeah, but so, and that's
when we were like, oh, what about Is it jeans
or is it environment? Is it a bit of both?
She had been wanted to sing forever and she sang
Somewhere over the Rainbow, and I was kind of it Somewhere.

(01:58):
There's a really cool story on one of the last
episodes we did too by Somewhere over the Rainbow Judy Garland,
who is that with with Randa Lee? Branda Lee? Yeah,
she said. Judy Garland gave her some great advice at
a hotel in Vegas. She went up to her and
was like, what you were a kid star, what do
you do. That's a good one. That's a good one.
Madelinemurlow signed Recordhill at eighteen. She did a bunch of

(02:20):
stuff in Canada and then came to the States, and
she kind of has a cool deal now where she's
a new artist here, but she's not so new in Canada,
so she lives here like she is. Fully she's a
Nashville artist, embraced at one hundred percent. But what's cool
is every once in a while she can pop back
home and do six seven shows and pair of bills. Yeah,
and they come back down, So like, that's cool. I

(02:41):
think that's it. I really enjoyed it. Hope you check
her out. I hope you like her music. Her name
is Madeline Murlow and that is also her Instagram and
TikTok name. Her song One House Down from the Girl
next Door, which I just felt was so clever, came
out on October eleventh. We featured it on The Women
to Buy Her Country. We've also featured bar Fight on
Women of Our Country. And here she is, mad Madelene

(03:04):
madeleyn Madeleine Merlou. Here you go, Madelin. How's it going good?
I saw good? I was watching just Dustin Lynch's Instagram.
You guys just did the opry. Yeah that's cool.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
Last week.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, so I followed Dustin. What was it was that
like the first first time for you? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (03:21):
That was my debut?

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Oh cool? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (03:24):
And then the first time because we have a song together,
the first time we ever played it?

Speaker 2 (03:28):
What was that night? Like?

Speaker 3 (03:29):
It was amazing? I was wreck though.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
I was like not okay, Like when I first got there,
you do like a bunch of interviews and stuff, and
people were talking to me and I wasn't processing any information,
Like I was just freaking out. I just feel like
it's such a I don't know every artist I've looked
up to loved to have played that stage, and I've
just wanted it for so long, So I think.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
I felt like the gravity of it. But then I
saw Dustin.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
I'm like, how many times have you played? I'm freaking out?
He's like, oh, like hundreds, Like it's fine, wait you
saw that, Like sorry, When we were sound checking, he
came in and he was so mellow.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
And I was just bumping him there and be like no, no, no,
we have a song together. Got it got to yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Then he was like I don't know. He was so
mellow and so it like chilled me out a little bit.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
The room's cool that they put you in the first
time because it's got all the quotes on it. It's
got like Taylor. Yeah, it's really the only one I
can remember. Yeah, because it's pretty that's a pretty large one.
And also it's Taylor too, for sure.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
It's like, oh my god, I'm on the Oprey.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, how long ago did you know that you're going
to do the opry? They do any kind of like, hey, Madeline,
we're especially inviting you with me. I think they were like, hey,
somebody fell out, we jump in. I think that was
me my first time.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
It was when we so me and Dustin were doing
liners for our song and it was like on the
teleprompter and I like, I like announced it to myself
kind of which was fun.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
And you didn't know what was coming.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
No.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
I had gone in there a few months previous and
like met the staff and then you play some songs
and so I had hoped, but then I didn't hear anything.
So I was like, oh, oh my gosh, I like
do something and they hate me. I was scared, but they.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Did ask me, so you have your own parking spot. Yep,
do you keep the sign? Of course?

Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah, I haven't hung it up yet, but I will
for sure.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
And uh, what did you play?

Speaker 1 (05:12):
I played well, Dustin and I did the duet at
the first first No, I did Champagne Night.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Which because you need to be so nervous the first one. Yeah,
with Dustin, that's too much comfortable somebody else you don't
you want to be so petrified nervous the first song, absolutely,
for sure, of course.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
But yeah, I chose that song just because it like
kind of kicked open a lot of doors in town
for me, my mom, my sister, came so many like
friends and you know, my label.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
Industry songwriters, just just the crew. It was good.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
You'll like your second time way more than your first time.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
I've heard that, Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
I am like, as soon as it was done, it's
I mean, it's just it was so great. Everyone's so nice.
It's the very mellow thing. I was like, Man, I
wish I hadn't like freak out all day.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
I can't wait to do it. And yeah, you have to.
But see, that's the thing. The first time, you're just
like like the first time that I played it. I
don't even remember the people like in the crowd. Yeah,
it was so nervous. Yeah, but like the second time,
it's kind of cool because there's not a cake and
all your label people aren't there, and we appreciate that
for the first time. Then like the eighth time, like
I show up ten minutes before and late right after,

(06:19):
and it's still awesome. Yeah, but now it's just like
you belong and they're super cool with you. But it
all starts at that first one, like congratulations, that's super cool.
How long have you been in town?

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Almost seven years?

Speaker 2 (06:30):
Okay, so long enough, but not so so long. The
pandemic kind of cuts a couple of years.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
I think so too. I think it did.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
I LL at least that's what I say. But yeah, yeah,
almost seven years.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
You moved from where so.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
I'm originally from forty minutes outside of Vancouver, Canada. Called
me for.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Ridge, which is like California. Yeah, exactly, like that side.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
On the Yeah, west coast, Pacific, northwest, beautiful, small, blueberry town,
not a ton going on, And then.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
I'm blueberry Town that real term. Yeah did you make
that up?

Speaker 3 (07:01):
No, it's just like there's a lot of blueberry fields.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
Oh, there literally are blueberry I thought there was like
some term I'd never heard. It was like a nice
lang blueberry town. Yeah, okay, okay, so you have blueberries there.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
And then I moved to Toronto, which is like Canada's
like New York and lived there for like a year
and a half, and then Pat do u Hall moved
to Nashville.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
When you moved to Toronto, what'd you do that for
what purpose?

Speaker 1 (07:25):
I just wanted to there's more of like a music
scene and business scene in Toronto. There's just not I mean,
Canada is a very large country in size, but population why,
it's not very big. And when it came to like
my label was there and I felt like I could
put together a band, and I felt like a lot
of my shows were in that area, so it was more.
And also I was just young. I was like ready
to get out and just be on my own and

(07:46):
it was a harsh reality.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
What prompted you to move to Nashville specifically?

Speaker 3 (07:50):
I always wanted to.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
I visited Nashville I think at like fifteen or sixteen
for the first time as soon as I figured out
there was like a magical way and where people came
and wrote songs for a living and yeah, and then
I was pretty determined. But as a Canadian, it's hard.
You need a visa, you can only stay for six
months without once. You kind of need a company to
like sign off on you. It's expensive. There's like a

(08:14):
lot of kind of hoops you got to jump through.
So I just like worked and saved up money and
had a career up in Canada and still do tour
it a lot and had a lot.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Of great experiences.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
But it was always like, as soon as I could
move to Nashville, I was going to do it.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
So did you need someone in the States to like
co sign mm hmm, not even use.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Kind of yeah, I mean it's a process, right. They
have to like basically vouch for you that like they'll
send you back if needed, and they're like low key
responsible for you and that they're going to supply you
with work. And so when I moved down, like I
didn't really have that, and so you just started like
harassing anyone that would like make eye contact with me and.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
Be like listen to my song? Have you heard my song?
It was like this clock that was counting down.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
You moved here without that. Yeah, so you basically had
six months. It was like the numbers dud, dude, it's
counting down. Yeah, I think it.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
Like to play in the US, there's a visa call
to P two which will kind of like get you
in for like one specific show. So I think I
had one of those at the time, so didn't like
raise any red flags.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
But that was done and the.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Clock had started, and I was like, Okay, I need
to get a publishing deal essentially.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
And how did you go about getting that? You move here?
What was your apartment like? I'm always curious that people's
first Yeah, like the first like three months here? What
was your apartment like? And what were your first couple of,
you know, ventures out in the music world.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
I lived in Midtown in one of like the little
apartments there.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
I cried like every day. I had no friends and
no anybody.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
No roommate, no.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
I would listen to your guy's show actually, and I
listened to a ton of Bobby Cast and I felt
like you had the scoop on everything, and I had
no friends and.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
So you guys were I was your friend? I just
you are?

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yes, Yeah, But honestly, it was like anyone like you'd
have one kind of friend.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
I actually remember Hannah Ellis, who was an artist.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
I had to write with her, and she invited me
to a party. I remember, and I was so scared
and I never forgot that she did that because I
was like literally knew nobody was petrified and just rolled up.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
So how do you make friends? No, no, no, I've
been had to do it. It's hard to do. I
just wonder how you did it here and all your
friends are probably also competing or trying for the same
goals you have.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, I would say, I mean it's hard. I remember
being like, if you're at like a yoga class, do
you just like be like Hi?

Speaker 3 (10:31):
Like, I mean, I'm awkward as it is. So I
don't really know.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
I think through like song writing and then you meet
kind of one friend who introduces you to their friend
and you kind of click with people.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
But I find that Nashville's pretty open.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
Like when I moved to Toronto, I made like one
friend in like two years, like.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
I had the whole time. You left one friend?

Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yeah, like one friend I could call.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Did you do the n S A? I A And
I say, I deal on songwriters? Or how did you
get your first rites.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
I like I had just known a couple people through
Canada because I would come down here and write with
a couple of people, like I knew Phil Barton and
knew like a few people. And then I went to
be my I went to ask cap and just was
like please, like just set me up with rights and
just started like compounding and then like can I jump
up with you and sing at the listening room or
can I do this? And just I felt like really

(11:19):
did everything I could to meet anyone, like going out,
if you were playing a show, I was going to
be there. I was just trying to talk to people,
and yeah, I just needed to be able to stay.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
I'm assuming you beat your six month goal. Did you
get a publishing a deal before six months? Yeah? How close?

Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, I think so you can stay. I don't know
the exactly because you can stay in the US six
months at a time.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
So I had gone home and then like would come
stack over.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
So if you go home and push the button and
start over, yeah something as long as your like parents
out white, I'd make sure you didn't get a job,
so you had to come home. Yeah, I guess if
she doesn't get a job, she has to go home
every six months. Yeah, do you check in kind?

Speaker 3 (11:56):
I mean I would.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
I would go play shows in Canada mainly, and then
it would kind of like reset or I'd spent like
you be really strategic with like how much time you'd spend.
But I think it was like pretty close. Yea, yeah,
I'm so grateful. The company is called Delusion. They were like, sure,
we'll give you down. I was like, thank God, Like
it was just the most you know, amazing thing.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
I had to vouch for someone from Australia for a
few years, okay, yeah, and so like I know the
process and I would write the letter like she's not
murdered anyone. Yeah, I believe in her. What was home
like for your dad as a musician.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
Yeah, yeah, he was.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
I wouldn't say he like fostered anything that I did,
but he I think hereditarily like passed down his gifts
to me.

Speaker 3 (12:41):
I guess.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
But my mom was really the one that saw something
in me. I was very tenacious and I wasn't like
the star ever, Like I was obsessed with it and
I would audition for everything, go to the talent shows
and do musical theater and I'd always get cast in
the course, and I'd always get third place or not
even play, and for whatever reason, I was just like, Okay,

(13:02):
what's next, Okay, I just gotta do this.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
I just gotta do that. Like sometimes they look back,
I'm like, how like, Yeah, you.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Ever think why did I keep going if I never
got it? Yeah? I think about that with me too,
because I was never like the person. I was always
mid but I always tried.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Yes, Oh I always say that.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
I say, like, I do be out here trying, like
I will try and try and try and failm film film,
keep trying.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Did your mom have musical background.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
No, like not really. I think she just she was
just a rock star.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
She she really pretty much raised me and my sister
on her own.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
And so your parents were together, Uh No.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
They got divorced when I was like kind of a
I think I was like twelve or thirty and you live.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
With your mom mostly. So were there instruments? Did your
sister like music or did was it just like you're
just wondering why all of a sudden you love music?
It was genetic of it, you think.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
I think so.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
I think so, Like my dad had a guitar that
I would steal and play, and but I just like
loved music. I just remember feeling it's differently like I
remember listening to like an Eda James song and being
like feeling very emotional, like a really young age about
these songs, and it just felt like it mattered. And

(14:13):
then my dad loved music and he was involved in
music too, and I think I was the kid, you know,
really desperate for you know, their parents to pay attention
to them as well. I've still dealing with that in therapy,
but we'll see.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
You know what's funny. I was talking to my friend
Eddie today today literally we were talking about some classic
rock stuff. It was way before I was born, and
he was like, how do you know the singers of
these songs? And so I don't know my real dad,
but my mom remarried my stepdad, And I said, well,

(14:44):
like I wanted any relationship at all of my stepdad. Yeah,
he loved classic rock. So I would memorize every song
we play. This thing where I just felt like he
would talk to me and pay me attention if I
knew every song and every artist. And you saying that,
I mean as basically a version the conversation I had
earlier because I thought, if I know all these songs
and all these artists, yeah, he'll have something he thinks

(15:06):
about he can talk about with me. And it feels
like a bit slightly different that you did music for
a bit of attention or at least some kind of love.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
Yeah, I think it's certainly a combination.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
When I talked to my therapist about that, she said,
you know, every villain has their origin story. That's what
she said to me.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
I had therapy girl. Yeah, therapy boy have been for
a long time.

Speaker 3 (15:28):
Game changer.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Why for you? When say win for you? Because I
think why is we'd be here for three hours because
I take over the conversation.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
And yeah, me too, Me too.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
I went for a few years and then I stopped,
and then I went for a few more years.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
Mine was literally.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
Like like it wasn't even like I needed help.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Very desperate shorty Canada. Did you start here? No?

Speaker 3 (15:50):
I started here.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Actually, how were you introduced to it? I was.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
I literally went to a doctor and I was like,
I am having five panic attacks a week, Like I
am out of control, Like physically I felt it physically.
I was like I don't know what's going on. I'm
like I don't want to leave my house, like, and
she was like, okay, okay, we need to like and
I ended up going to this place called center Stone,
which and this was like just such a god thing,

(16:15):
such a blessing. When I first moved to town, I
go to this I literally google I go this thing
called center Stone, and they're like, how much money do
you have? And I was like, I just moved here,
Like I'm like, uh, you know, I didn't have like anything,
and they were like, okay, then let's.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
Take care of and they save my life.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
One, I appreciate being open about that and even mentioning
therapy because it doesn't have the stigma that it used
to have. But I think a lot of people don't
want to mention it unless it's brought up and kind
of dragged out of them. So I really appreciate you
just even mentioning the facts out of nowhere, Like yeah, therapy,
it's a massive part of my life for sure. Didn't
even know what it was going on.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
It's like you're I always say, and I always just
really encourage people and to go because I mean, sometimes
you're just carrying so much and sometimes you don't know
what you're carrying, But I felt like I had a
lot of resentment, a lot of anger, and I was
just dragging it around with me. It was affecting my
life so much and had a lot of you know,
just a ton of different things and to actually go
through and it's hard.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
You stir it all up, and it's.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
Even harder at first, but then it starts to feel
lighter and it's like you get your life back, you
really do?

Speaker 2 (17:17):
Did they help you? Right? Meaning? And I want to
give you two versions. I felt if I got too
and this is not the correct term for someone that
goes into therapy, I thought if I got too right
or too correct, I would lose my edge. Yeah. I
really felt like I'm able to like produce this stuff,
create the stuff, right, these jokes, have these ideas and

(17:37):
these thoughts because I'm a little broken, and if I
can just say a little broken, then but if I
get if I'm fixed, nobody's ever fixed. That's what I thought.
If I'm fixed, I will not be able to have
the same creative edge that I did. Did you ever
worry about that a little bit?

Speaker 3 (17:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (17:54):
But I think like, yeah, I mean at your like
rock bottom, obviously your like safety and like life is
like more important.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
But I certainly feel like it's helped me more than.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
Anything, just understanding, like I think as a songwriter, even
when I'm like.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
In this situation, you just don't have as much perspective.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
And so then when I'm out of the situation, I
can turn around and see, you know, what was happening,
and just.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
Like a different perspective of it.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
And I think that's what therapy does, is it like
opens stuff up and gives you perspectives on situations and
validates your experiences and your emotions and stuff to help
you understand them better, which I think makes me a
better songwriter.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
I was very wrong about thinking I would lose my age,
and I agree with what you're saying, but I had
to I was very concerned that if I got right, yeah,
I would lose what got me to that point. But
then what I kind of learned was because therapies it's
weirdly intimate. Right, you don't know the person, oh for sure,
you're saying things and it's a dance. Especially when you

(18:53):
first go you're like, ah, do I trust you?

Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yeah, You're like, do I omit this or what?

Speaker 2 (18:58):
And then when I we would write and you know,
I don't write like you doub but I write comedy
stuff or just when i'd write books. It helped me be,
It helped me share more intimately exactly, so much more
so than it actually made me better. It was very
counter what I thought was going to happen. Yeah, because
of me going, I got to realize who I really am.
And also that being kind of open about it actually

(19:22):
allows more growth. And I wasn't as scared to share,
for sure. And co writes are very intimate times. But
you and somebody and you're like, here's what happened to me,
and it sucked, Like writing.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
Intimates it, Oh yeah for sure, and you feel like, Okay,
I want to write this type of song and like
you got it's going to be the right room that
you know, some songwriters just have a gift of making
you feel very safe in the room until you kind
of save that for that. But I think that's exactly it.
It's like it's made me a more of an open person.
And I think with my little platform that I have,
I don't know, I mean, and you, I'm sure how

(19:53):
many people have heard your story and have fell seen
I mean, that's important. I mean, we're only here for
a short amount of time, and it's like, if you
can make one person feel like understood in their experiences
or in their story, like, that's pretty awesome.

Speaker 4 (20:05):
Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor,
and we're back on the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Can I see a very cliche question? You ever met
Sania Twain?

Speaker 3 (20:23):
I have?

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah, that's the ultimate cliche Canadian question.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, at some point I was gonna ask it so licious.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
I actually got to do at the Canadian Country Music Awards.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
She was hosting, and I got to do a tribute
to her while she watched you.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
She yeah, she comes on stage at the end, so
I have a photo of me and her.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
Wait, you performed a tribute to her while she I
would die. I'd be a wreck. I was, I'd be
a wreck.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
It was insane and what was sad too?

Speaker 1 (20:48):
I mean we were It was me and two other
girls and we were all so nervous, like this is
as a Canadian girl, your hero, Like she was my
first concert.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
She was like made me think I could do this.
The whole thing. We were rereaking out and then I remember.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
Just like the trolls were like this is trash and
we got so much like hate and people just and
their opinions and stuff and you know they vocally sound
bad or whatever it was, and it was like we
were so nervous, Like it was just felt like the
biggest moment, you know, in our lives so far.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Remove the troll part for a second, because that had
to happen. You had to see that.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, for sure, a tribute you just you just get that,
because do you They don't feel like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
You can never do it as good as the original.
It's like a cover covers or it's like a sequel
to a movie. None of them are really as good
as the original because they're almost not allowed to be
because the original. So before, how did you feel while
you were doing it or how did you feel when
you were asked to do it? Because I think that's
pretty amazing.

Speaker 3 (21:47):
It was insane.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
I honestly think like there was I got a call
about like that it might be happening, and then I
remember I got a text from like the music director
was like, hey, so here's what you're going to be
singing it just like this very I sang one of
her new songs. So I mean I think one girl
started with man, I feel like a woman, Then I
forget the second one. Then I sang live spot to

(22:10):
get good, and then we sang Who's Then I sang
Who's bet of your boots Been under? And then she
came out after so we kind of like alded like
little bits of her songs.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Did she come out and rehearsal?

Speaker 3 (22:20):
Yeah, Oh my gosh, she did. And she was so
like telling us like, oh, try this and try that
and like.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Walk on beat and was like very excited for us
and like a fun aunt is the only way like
I could explain it. She was. Yeah, she was awesome.
It was really really special.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
What's a week like for you now?

Speaker 3 (22:40):
Just depends.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
I mean I feel like we've been on the road
a lot playing shows.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
I still play a lot in Canada's.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Whiles a lot of times, you know, crossing the border up, up,
back and forth.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
I still guarantee so bigger up there because you have
a history for sure. Yeah, that's awesome to be able
to go and make money.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah it isn't Canadian dollars though, so anyway, have a backover.
It doesn't really shake out to what it is up there.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
But do you know that you know the actual difference.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
I think it's like seventy two cents to the dollar
or something.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
But still you're probably making good enough up there to
take care of it.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
For sure, able to do it. I mean touring. I
don't think people realize how expensive it is to.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Do again tour.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
I'm going to say the thing that I just said
a minute ago, and I'm so annoying when I do this.
But I was just having this conversation yesterday with my friend.
You know, George Burge is the artist. So George has
a number one song hit the song Mind on You,
and he has a song that's probably gonna be a
number one again. And he was talking about opening for
an artist and he was the baby act, and we

(23:41):
were talking about and this wasn't a microphone because George
is a dear friend of mine. He was like, we
were making just enough to almost break even. Yeah, like
taking oh big shows, but as the baby act, like
not a bus, a van, having to pay the band,
You're making fifteen hundred dollars a show. Yeah. And then
he's like, by the time we would get back, if

(24:03):
I was down seventy bucks, that was a win.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
Oh, absolutely so when you talk about.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
That, that's I mean, that's the reality of it. It's
hard to make money. Yeah, touring, just straight up for sure.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
And it's gritty too, right, Like you're on the road
and you're in a van and you're driving and you're tired,
and then you come home and your nake in the
deficit and you're.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
Like everyone else got paid and like it's.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
My name on the thing, that's why we're all here.
It's like it's hard on like the psyche sometimes too,
but like it it's so enjoyable, like playing shows is
the best part of this whole thing that it somehow
like you're.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
Just still do it.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
I don't know, it's like it you really do love
it that much for you to do a full weekend
and be down seventy dollars and still be like.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
That was sweet, though, Why do you keep going? I
don't know, Like, what's what's the ultimate goal?

Speaker 3 (24:54):
Great question?

Speaker 1 (24:54):
I feel like the with this business trying to understand
that the goal line just can take and used to
move like I mean, I would set goals for myself
and then hit the goals and then you're like okay,
like what's next. You don't even sit there and really
enjoy it. It's it's pretty crazy.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
And so I don't know. I would love to just
be able to.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Like do this and make music and tour and play
shows and support a family and but yeah, I mean
putting like specific things, it's difficult. I've thought about that
a lot.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
Are you able to enjoy successes?

Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah, I think I think I have had a Like
I started super young, and I feel like my career
I've been like a few degrees of separation of like
really cool things for a while, Like I am such
a like inch by inch by inch by inch, like
it has gone so slow for me, and it's always

(25:51):
I mean, like, for example, my producer Zat Crowell, the
reason why we met is because that Dustin duet with
Mackenzie Porter that was like a six week number one.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
I auditioned for that song and I thought I did
such a great job and it.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
Went so well, and that's how I met Zach and
him obviously, like I didn't get that, but it led
to a relationship with us.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
But like I was, like, I was so close.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
That was such a huge song that you know could
have been me or before I signed because I'm over
at BBR.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
Now I did a showcase in town. The labels came out.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Had one label literally looked me in the eem and
be like get ready, like Monday, there's gonna be a
deal on your table.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
And I was like, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
And then they were like, we just signed another girl.
I was so crushed. I like remember just like dropping
my phone and just sobbing, like I was so close,
Like how did what happened over the weekend.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
So there's been a few times that it's just.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Like gut hunt, you know, and then then something magical
happens and then folsy right back in again. And I've
had a lot of magical things and random incidences and
just opportunities fall my lap out of the sky at
the same time too.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
That had been so great.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
When let's use an example when BBR says, hey, we
want to sign you. Yeah, can you enjoy and celebrate
that before you start to worry about that?

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, you know, it was cool. After that other label
didn't sign me, I went and bought a bottle of
champagne and wrote, we'll sign a US for record deal
and put it on. I was like to I'm like,
this is happening, Like I'm tired of this, like this
just needs to happen. And it was within the year
that I that they offered me a deal, which is
pretty cool. But yeah, I mean, yeah, you're stressed there

(27:31):
because there's like a long period of time where you're
in negotiations in the contracts the whole time, and then
people are like, did you get the contract yet? I'm like,
stop asking me that, like stress that they're going to
change their mind or it's not going to come through
or and then you get the deal and then you're like,
now you got to keep the deal.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
It's just it never ends, you know.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yeah, never For me, I'm I struggle. I can't control
my thoughts, but I try to control my thinking a
bit where I don't yeah, where I don't lose myself.
But if something happens, I'm pumped before I'm able to
really enjoy it, I'm like, Okay, well this will fall
apart if I don't abc like I really I've gotten
a little better at it, but I have trouble with
identifying why I should be happy about something before I

(28:08):
move the goalpost, because I know they're gonna I know
they're gonna move, just like you mentioned a minute ago,
they're gonna move. Yeah, if I get a TV show,
I should be happy for a minute that I just
got the show instead of worrying about how it's gona
fail if I don't get ratings exactly. Yeah, so now
there are lots of therapy. I can go, well, you're
really gonna unravel very soon. However, we're going to take
this day before we fully unravel. Yeah, and enjoy this

(28:31):
for sure. Would you do you feel like you're a
positive generally a positive person.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yes, I do, yeah, And I think that's why I'm
able to still be here and still be doing it
and still be trying it, because.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
I think it's like all about your attitude.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
And at the end of the day, I mean, people
have hard jobs, you know, and I wake up and
write songs like I'm very blessed, like I'm really really lucky.
But I totally agree, Like the opera is a great
example of me like intentionally standing there being like I
set this goal for myself and I'm freaking here and
I'm standing in the circle and I accomplish what I did,
Like I felt very allowed myself to feel very very

(29:03):
proud of myself.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
And celebrate that and will continue to.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
So I feel like when it does happen for me,
it's gonna be really sweet because I've worked really hard
and waited my turn and put the work in. So yeah,
I feel like having a longer journey on the back
end just allows you to be more grateful for it
when it finally you know, you do get those opportunities
to come.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
It's very nice of you to say, wait, I don't
feel like you've waited turn. I feel like you just
get up once you get knocked down, and yeah, you're
gonna eventually take your turn. Yeah, because you're not much
of a waiter. But I think you can't be a waiter.
You have to take the blows. Yeah, because in this world,
this industry, anything creative, the blows are going to happen life,

(29:45):
I mean life, and absolutely yeah, the blows are going.
And you know, it's never about if you're gonna get
back up, it's how quickly can you get back up?
If somebody called me and said you get a record deal,
and they call a couple of days laters, they never mind.
Yeah that sucks. Yeah, how do you trust anybody ever
again to say we're gonna work on a record deal
like that would be I would be burnt out immediately. Yeah,

(30:06):
I'm gonna ask another question you probably get asked, but
what's the my Little pone the cartoon then my Little Pony. Yeah,
you had a voice, so what was was that a
real job? Assistant job? What was the job?

Speaker 3 (30:21):
No?

Speaker 1 (30:21):
No, I honestly, this was so long ago, which is
just hilarious, like ten years ago, right, yeah, like it's
just floated around and I'll get comments to you on time,
be like your Sonata dusk and because.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
That was that's how you say it, I wasn't gonna
try to say it.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yes, So I sang the vocals like I sang a
lot of pad like harmony like vocals for the soundtrack
for this my Little Pony movie, and did all the
vocal parts for this pony named Sonata, and like it's
like my littling Battle of the Bands or something like that.
And I remember I made like a few thousand dollars
and I was like, this is so sick. This is like,

(30:53):
you know, I didn't have anything at the time, and
she has followed me around, you know, and people love
that movie.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
I guess I.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Don't know, So how did you get that.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
Job, I think.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
So I was in this like vocal group, like a
glee club adjacent thing, and somebody in the group like,
I don't know, it was just a really random I
just got a call for They were like, oh, you're
a singer, and I remember I had like staying country
music and listened to it a ton and they kept
being like, okay, you have a little twang in your voice,

(31:22):
like stop singing it like that.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
I was like, okay, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
And they wrote to check for a couple thousand bucks. Yeah. Yeah,
was it a one time thing? Another couple of things?
Because you did background vocals on Jelly Roll and Cole, Yeah,
a couple of their songs. You probably have done way
more than that. Yeah, So how did you get those jobs?
Were you just doing that generally, just trying to make
money at first?

Speaker 3 (31:40):
Honestly what they.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Come do as the artist?

Speaker 3 (31:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
No.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
So, so I started working with Zach and we were
writing together a bunch and.

Speaker 3 (31:50):
He called me one day and he was like, I'm
doing Cole song. He's Carolina.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
He's like a remake of this song from the nineties,
and I want to put Jody Messina's part in it
because it's in a different key. She's kind of like
sounds like a chipmunk or whatever, like.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
Can you come proof of concept.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
It's not going in the record, but I just want
to see what it would sound like if we can
like mimic her voice. And I remember I was like, okay,
so this is like I mean, I just get my car,
drive to Forest Hills or whatever and sing this thing
that's not going to be in the song.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
No one's going to hear it placeholder.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
It's really high too, so I like squeak it out
and he's like, sweet, this sounds awesome, thank you, and
I leave. And then literally like a week later, he's
like cool, loves it, like it's going to stay.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
And I was like, oh my gosh. And then became
like the biggest song ever.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
And then Zach called me for the Jelly Row record.
I did some sam Hunt stuff. I've sang some and
dust and stuff. The new Chevrolet song that just went
number one with him and Jelly. That's me singing the
background of that song and Zach will just turn me
up and I'll be things, So do.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
You sing that as loud and pure as possible? Right
then he just turns you down.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
What do you mean? Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
You're just singing the crap out of here.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
He's like, just go off flake, just saying.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
And that's the thing like I grew up listening to
Like I was obsessed. I really obsessed with Rascal Flats
and I would copy all of Gary's runs. And I
love Big Belters and Martina and singers and stuff. So
my favorite part of the recording process is the ad
lib track. I'm like, let me go, And that's what
Zach would do, like just sing like a bunch of stuff,
sing some harmonies, sing some ad libs.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
So it's really creative, it's really fun.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
And then I just get surprised about like what ends
up in it. And sometimes I feel like it's it
like adds a lot to it, and I'm yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Grateful for Sometimes I think I called Zach and be like,
why do you turn me up a little bit? Yeah?
Like I was a little too low? Yeah, Like I really,
I know it's background, but give me, give me just
a little bit more.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Sometimes I'm like, there's a song on the New Jelly
Roll record that I sang some and I'm like listening,
I'm like, oh, I in here.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
I can farely hear myself.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
That's funny. Uh. What the ad libs are interesting. Some
people hate the ad libs because you have to be
vulnerable do ad libs, meaning you're just free to do
whatever you want. And to do great ad libs you
have to be stupid and great and bad and because
it's a playground. Yeah, and to nail it, you have

(34:08):
to experiment.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
It's just like going for it. But it's what's the
craziest thing about it. And it's similar to you know,
keithur been ripping a guitar solo. It's coming to him
in real time through his brain to his hands and
out like it is happening in real time.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
And same thing with that.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
It's just like you're just singing and you're coming up
with these different notes and combinations and you just kind
of like let something else do it. And so it's
really fun, I think, but then you miss so hard.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
And it's very embarrassing.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
Yeah yeah for you very vulnerable.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
But that's how you get greatness, is to allow the
opportunity for a disaster to happen. Like exactly. You don't
get the really great unless you make yourself so vulnerable
that you get kicked on the nuts. You don't have
nuts but me to get kicked on the nuts. Yeah,
so you act right, I had done. I didn't watch it,

(35:01):
but I mean, honestly, I didn't watch Country Crush.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
Watch it, but I watched a couple of clips of it,
and I didn't know if that was like something you
did it from being a kid all the way until now. No,
because of my little pony in the Country Crush, I
was just doing a homework.

Speaker 3 (35:18):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
I like it.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
No, I have just been a girl that will I
was terrified for that. I had no acting experience. I
think I did like something really Yeah, I did some
like commercial auditions and stuff, and then I did musical theater,
but they like heard me or saw me on the
internet and they were like, she looks like our character,
she sings like our character.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
Can she act?

Speaker 1 (35:40):
And I was like not really, and yeah, and we
did it. Jana Kreamer's in the movie as well, and
so it was awesome, Like it was a fun experience
and it actually the money I made for that movie,
which wasn't like a ton, but it was enough to
actually help me move to Nashville, so that's really cool.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
I was like, I'll do it.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
And it's like a silly Hallmark key movie where I
played a country singer, so it was easy to kind
of cosplay. But yeah, I'm not an actress. I'm just
somebody ready to work.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Nerve wrack jump into. It was that though, because again
have a very small window of acting. I did a
little movie once, Vanessa Hudgens, but I had like nine lines.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
I did a bunch of Nashville where I started off
as an extra and then eventually that had me playing
myself doing lines with Connie Britton. But I felt I
go back to being vulnerable. I felt so vulnerable because
I'm with people who do this all the time. Yeah,
and their expectation is they should all nail it because
they're all professionals. And I get dragged in and they're like,
you have four lines with Connie Britton on Nashville, all
the camera, and I'm like, I just want to screw
this up. Yes, what was your feeling like acting?

Speaker 3 (36:41):
I was.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
I mean I was completely terrified for sure, and the
same thing I was just I felt really out of
my element.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
Everybody.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
I was the only non actor around, everybody knew what
they were doing, so I leaned really heavily on my
co star.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
We became really good.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
Friends, and I for like every line, I'd be like, wow,
should I say this?

Speaker 3 (36:58):
Like I was so lost.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
But I also think that there was like a level
of like naivity going into it, Like I really didn't know.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
It's hard, long hour, like actors are. It is so
such a gritty thing to.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Do long hours, and you're really just having to just
like buy into the whole thing. And really, I mean
it's very impressive what they do. And so I felt
like I was like lost, in secure the whole process really,
but I did it.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Yeah. How do you feel about watching yourself back?

Speaker 1 (37:27):
I don't know, it's hard. I think it's hard to
find the perspective. I mean now I watch a music
video back and I'm like, oh, like it's just I
don't like, I'm like, wow, so cool.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
I'm too like, I don't know, self deprecating to really
enjoy it.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
I mean, it is that movie is like a whole
market movie. It's supposed to be you know what it is.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Exactly.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
It's very but it's supposed to be exactly.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah, So I felt like, personally, I was pretty cringe,
but like that's also me and I think that about
myself mostly always, So I don't know.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
I think the one house down from the Girl next
Door is such a so clever thank you who came
up with that? Me? That's it's so clever, Thank you
so much. We just put Mike, do we just put
it on something? Yes, Women Higher Country? So so I
programm Women of by Our Country the show, and so
I go through and listen to stuff, and I just

(38:18):
saw the title even before I listened to it. I
was like, that is so clever of a title, and
obviously the song is great. So I don't know how
where did that come from? Such a vague, stupid question,
but I really it's so clever. I like, like, what
was the genesis of even that thought?

Speaker 3 (38:32):
Yeah? Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
So.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
The last single that I put out before this project
was a song called Makeup, and it's literally about like
breaking family, like trauma cycles essentially, and I felt like
I had more to say on it, but I wanted
it to be in more of a fun way. So
I feel like I could have written that song in
a bunch of different ways, but ultimately it's just about

(38:54):
feeling kind of like on the outside looking in, I
was very envious up of the other families and they
all looked really perfect to me, and mine wasn't. And
I had this kind of feeling that I carried around
with me that I was other or blemished in some
kind of way. And then I met my husband and
he is like the golden all American, you know boy,

(39:16):
and he saw my story as just like strength and
like resilience and just like I don't know, he really
like embraced it and thought it was really admirable of
everything that I had done, and he loved me for
exactly who I was, and so it just I felt
like it was like who knew? Like everything you were
looking for was one house now with the girl next door,

(39:37):
and like a line at it is like I wasn't
the daughter of the Joneses, but you saw the blue
sky in my hurricane. So it's just kind of like
I think true acceptance comes from within. But this song
is about somebody like loving you for you and your story,
and I think that can be really healing too.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
I feel like I could be wrong, Like even talking
about that, you get a little bit emotional. Yeah, like
I felt like there you got a little little bit.
I just think the title is so clever, but also
I feel I feel it a bit too. When you're like, like,
there are things that I think I was ashamed of
growing up that My wife's like, dang, you actually did
that and got through that. Yeah, but I was so

(40:13):
ashamed of it like that, I didn't even want to
talk about it much less. I can't believe somebody would
think like you said that that's admirable.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
It doesn't feel like that.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
It's like yeah, but for somebody to be like dang,
like no, like you and look where you are now,
that is amazing, Like that makes you so special. And
so to kind of like switch the narrative and be like, yeah,
I am that person coming from where I came from,
and I'm excited about that now.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
When you're like this is the name of the EP,
this is the song, were like, I nail that title. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
I walked in that day.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
I was like, I've got a song title for you,
and the writers were like, let's go.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
That's such a good title and concept that if I
had written it wrong this song, I would have kept
it and moved it and tried it again.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
For sure.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
And I and the thing was is I could have
written that song five times, Like it could have been
like a really sad, slow song, It could have been
all of these things. But I love the way that
it turned out, like it's so fun and empowering, but
in a very subtle way, like you don't listen to
it and feel all these emotions.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
But for me, it does this project more than your
past work. Do you feel like you've been given freedom
to be more emotional in your songs and maybe say
things that have a little more nuance, or maybe you've
given yourself the freedom to do so. Do you feel that, Yes,
for sure.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
I think it's so important. I mean, I just feel
like I'm just growing as a writer, growing and growing,
and my songs are just getting better and better. And
that's just as a result of my time here in
the community of songwriters my A and R. Actually, Katie Kirkover,
I was playing her some songs and she.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
Was like, did you go through that?

Speaker 1 (41:50):
And I was like, no, about like this other song
that I wrote, And She's like, I just want you
to start writing songs.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
And I wrote songs that I'm like, I don't think
this heard just.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
Really personal songs, very intimate songs, very looking back. I
kind of like looked at some experiences in love and
I'm like, I want to write about this, and like
this was a really cool thing and just really dove
in and I'm really proud of it, like as a
songwriter more than anything. But yeah, I mean, having a
label that just gives you permission to just kind of
go for it like that is really cool.

Speaker 5 (42:20):
The Bobby Cast will be right back. This is the
Bobby Cast.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
I want to ask you a hard question to answer,
and don't laugh it off. You to really try to
answer this question because I hate when I'm asked this question.
But why do you think that people like you?

Speaker 3 (42:47):
I don't know. I mean, like immediately what popped in
my head? And I'm like, what do they?

Speaker 1 (42:54):
I don't know? Which is just that says everything I guess,
But I think I think it's something about ony. I
think that I've had a few songs like in my
catalog where I've been very vulnerable and honest.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
I think people connect to that.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Let's let's not talk about fans, Let's talk about your friends.
Why do you think your friends like you? Oh?

Speaker 1 (43:13):
I think I'm a good friend. I think I show
up for people. I think that I'm not afraid to
ask hard questions. I think I like, I really desire
having a deep connection with people more than anything, Like
I want to have a real conversation. I don't want
to talk like about the weather. I want to kind
of get into it. And people are sometimes afraid to
have those conversations.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
And I'm not.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
And so I feel like I'm a friend that people
can go to and be like, I'm going through this
really hard thing, like I need some help, and I'm
like a safe place to do that.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Why do you think your husband loves you.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
I think for maybe some of the same reasons.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
Like he's like he has said before, like I felt
like I was asleep before I met you, Like I
feel like you kind of like opened this whole other
world and emotional world. And he grew up down here,
and I think like he was just in the system
kind of thinking like you know, you do this and
you do that, and everything is happens a certain way,

(44:11):
and this is what your life's going to look like.
And then we met and I was like, you can
do anything you want, Like you could be an astronaut.
Really if you wanted to like you could do anything,
and I think there's just like a freedom and strength.
And I think he was like very attracted to something
different than him, and he like kind of keeps me
grounded and on earth. And I think that I shake

(44:32):
it up and so we make a kid.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
We make a good partnership, for sure.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
I love that exercise because it's so hard to get
people to say nice things about themselves because they feel
like they're going to sound arrogant or cocky. And sometimes
people don't even know until they really think. It's hard.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
That's a hard no. I was literally like, that's that's.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
Why I press it with I'm serious. I'm being serious
about this, and I hate that.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
The first thing that I thought was like do they
like which is just you know, same, which is sad
that it shouldn't be like that, because I know I
have I have great friends, I have great relationships in
my life, like I'm you know.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
And sometimes you gotta sometimes I have to remind myself,
you know what I am kind of cool? Yeah, Like
I mean really, because I for sure constantly it's always
what is not good, what is not working? And so
my therapists was the same thing. What they ask me
a question to make me say something good, and it's
so uncomfortable totally. But then when I'm done, I'm like, oh,

(45:22):
I don't hate me as much as I thought I did.
Why do you think? Like you mentioned Dustin, you mentioned
Keith Urban, but you work with both those guys on
the project. Dustin is on the same label as you. Yeah,
so that's a natural. If he enjoys what you do,
you enjoy it he does. It's easy because you just
sign a couple of things. Everything's in house. What about Keith?
How did you guys start working together?

Speaker 1 (45:42):
So when Zach and I finished the production for a
One House Down, I thought it sounded like reminiscent of
kind of like an old Keith song. And I literally
said to Zach I knew that he knew him. I said,
would you text him this song and ask him to
play soolo on it? And Zach was like, Okay, he's.

Speaker 3 (46:02):
I don't know. I mean he's like, I'd give it.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Nineteen percent chance that he says yes, And I said
I'll take nineteen percent and he said yes.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
So you just got to go like why not?

Speaker 1 (46:10):
The worst he can say is no or like not reply,
But he replied and said the song is killer, like
I would love to And then you know, came that
week and I don't know why, Like Keith is like
very famous and like my hero, Like I don't know
why he heard that and was like, yeah, I'll play
on it.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
That just I think says so much about him.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Okay, he's just like such a music. Why do you
think Keith Urban wanted I'm not going to let you
do that. Why do you think Keith Urban agreed to
play on your song?

Speaker 1 (46:37):
I think because it's a great song. I think he's
a great song. It's a great idea.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
I don't think you were being self deprecating there, like
to be like ha hambi, I mean we just naturally
go there.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
No, I know, but it I do think that for
Keith to play on like I don't know if he's
ever seen my name before, you know what I mean,
for him to get this song of somebody even better
and hear it and be like I'm going to play
on that. This song is great, Like that is awesome.
I feel like that says so much about him, and
that also says so much about the song as well too.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
Yeah that's really cool. Yeah, for sure, the first time
you heard it, Oh my gosh, where were you? Would
you listen to it only because you get file right
and it's.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, I actually, well, I got a
video of him playing.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
The solo crazy yeah on it's so good.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
The video is amazing and he's just shredding it. I
don't know how many takes it. I feel like it
was one. It's so good and it's so Keith Urban,
Like it's like warn't weren't. Like it's everything I could
have wanted it to be. And I was literally driving
and almost crashed.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
My car, no joke.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
I was like, what, like because I just thought the
whole time, like something's gonna come up, like because I
knew he was coming on Monday to do it, and
I'm like, okay, but like he's freaking Keith Urban, Like
you know, Nicole is going to need him somewhere.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
He's gonna like have to cancel. Like I don't know.
I was just scared, you know.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
I keep my hopes on dreams on the floor of
the bars, on the floor, I always say. But then
and then Zach just sent me that video and I
was like, this is the greatest video I've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
It's super cool, it's awesome. There's six songs on the
on the EP. Did you was it at seven or eight?
Was it a three or four? And you had it
like we was to get to that number? What happened?

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Yeah, I've never had a harder time picking songs for
a project. There's two that I'm like, are I guess
left on the cutting room floor that I love so much.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
That I mean, I think that they'll have their story elsewhere.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
But it was literally just you know, packaging it to
a digestible amount and having to choose, which was really tough.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
So what's the goal in releasing music? Do you want to?
You have this Keith as an example, he will put
out singles like four or five of them over a
year and a half and never put out a project. Yeah,
and then finally he's like and here's the rest, Yeah,
and here's twelve songs after he's put out four or
five singles, Like, what is your desirable way to release music?

Speaker 1 (48:54):
I mean, I think, like I like the way that
I think there's a science behind why people release music
the way they do. I feel like when an artist
goes dark for a minute and then they released one
song you're very excited about the one song, you fall
in love with the one song, they put another one out.
Then you get the projects Like I feel like ideally,
I mean, I really want to make.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
A full length record.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
That's of course a big dream of mine, and it
to how like a cohesive story, Like I feel like
that's really cool for it to feel like they all
make sense with each other, and it's very clear, like
what direction you're going in.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
So that's like a huge goal.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
But I just try to think of, like how do
I like to digest music. I remember years ago John
Mayer released Songs and Waves.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
Do you remember that?

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Like, I thought that was so cool and he I
think it was like three songs or four songs at
a time.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
I love that because that was so amazing. I don't
know why.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
And you were just so excited about the next wave
of songs that were gonna come out.

Speaker 3 (49:45):
So I feel like there's like a bunch of different
ways to do it.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
I used to be a big album guy, and then
I slowly, like TikTok culture take me over in that
I just don't have the attention span. Yeah, And what
happened was and I think that I was losing out
because there was a lot of great music that I
wouldn't get to mm hmm. And I think I would
miss out on great songs because I'd go through once

(50:08):
and save like three of them and really never give
songs an opportunity to breathe. Therefore, I missed out on
so many great songs. So then yeah, when John may
here did that, I loved it. Yeah, because it was
three songs listen to five or six times, really got
to and if I loved them, I keep them. If not,
where if somebody puts out twelve songs, I unfairly, yeah,

(50:28):
probably don't give them the attention that they deserve. And
I'm only gonna listen to twelve songs on an album
if I love love the artists too, Like I've got
to be an a plus fan to listen to an
entire album.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
It's a lot like the double albums and stuff. It's
a lot, a lot of a lot of music to digest,
for sure.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
So the rest of the year, like what happens between
now and like Christmas?

Speaker 1 (50:47):
Yeah, I mean we I feel like we just got
back from our last IS show in Sacramento, But things
come up so often as well, So I don't want
to like say that, like, you know, there's always like, oh,
this person dropped out of this weekend of shows and stuff,
so who knows. But starting to write a little bit
and it's so crazy and like I just put this
thing out and it's like Okay, start writing again, like

(51:09):
what's mex which is exciting, and just continue to I
mean the world of like promotion is just like creating
content and new ideas and how do we you know,
get these songs heard and in a creative way and stuff.
So I think it's a lot of brainstorming, a lot
of filming, a lot of you.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
Know, are you tick talking every day? Are you every
day trying to do something? Try to Yeah?

Speaker 4 (51:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (51:31):
And I wouldn't say, like, I mean, I've had songs
do great on TikTok. I've got you know, a decent
you know, amount of followers and stuff on TikTok. It's
definitely like not my favorite thing about this, Like I mean,
I'd rather play the show and like do write the
song and record the music and stuff.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
But I think it's cool that you can connect with
your fans every single day.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
It's like the modern day putting your sometimes it's poster
on the well.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
I mean I could go. I mean it's just such.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
A secular thing goes around. It's like it's good and bad.
It's oversaturated. I feel like we're all just screaming into.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
A canyon like lessen to I saw Please.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Like over and over. Like my whole news feed is
just like overwhelming. Because I follows somebody like artists and stuff.
It's it's a lot, for sure.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
It is definitely a tool. That's how I have to
look at it. Yeah, because if it used wrong mm hmm,
it's terrible.

Speaker 3 (52:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
If used right, it's awesome.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
And I kind of fit somewhere in the middle and
do it both ways. You know. I saw jelly roll
just like I'm out on Twitter. Yeah, that's such a
toxic place. Yeah, I now I don't respond to people
on Twitter anymore. Have them aren't even real anyway? Yeah,
I get way too, like I want to fight people.

Speaker 3 (52:39):
It's but it's psychological violence. It's messed up.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
It really is what people think that they can say
about other people. It surprises me every day when all
like read something and I'm like, who are you? Are
you like a regular person like who says like that
to anybody, it's it's unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
I've assigned myself to not responding, and I'm using it
as a tool because I think I gave it too
much of a space ye to actually worry about caring
about what people thought there. Yeah, when that place, it
doesn't matter if it's Facebook and Twitter's now assessble like
they want to not care. Yeah, they want it's it's

(53:18):
so like there's great from it and then there's really
terrible from it. Yeah, And I think if people going
into it understand that it's not real either way, the
best and the worst.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
Totally.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Yeah, I think though I'm a little worried, Like I
feel like as artists and people in this industry were
often very insecure.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
We're often while we do it, we're looking for love.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
We're just looking for love. We're like very self deprecating,
like whatever. And now we're like kind of in front
of this camera with this filter on and we're staring
at ourselves all day, and like I'm like, I don't know, Like.

Speaker 3 (53:51):
I just am worried.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
I feel like we're all just so sensitive to and
then you're I mean, you're exposing yourself to all of that,
Like every single day. It's just it's an added like
a mental health element to this that I don't know.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
It's hard.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
I worry about, like I don't know some people with it,
like if they couldn't handle that aspect of it that
they bow out And you're like, I know, but you're
so talented, Like it shouldn't be whether or not you're
mentally strong enough to handle that.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
Like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
It just feels like we're going to miss out on
some really great artists.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
I mean never thought about it like that. That's super interesting,
and that my generation was the first to really have
social media and so there was no mental health about
what happens because of it.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
M hmmm.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
Where I think now it has gotten extremely violent at
times online, but I think now there's an understanding though
of what it can do to people. And I think
we're now starting to see an understanding too of there
being a of a need for mental health understanding with

(54:57):
social media. Yeah, I didn't have that as a kid,
have that as a kid, you know, when we started
using it, But now hopefully, yeah, they're starting to be
an understanding of how it affects mental health, yes, and
that it's being taught. Maybe how do you hope so
I know? Otherwise it's just death. I can't look at
comments to anything I know. I start. I feel I

(55:18):
should feel liked on social media because I have a
big fun But I go on social media. I go
to like the by Bone Show page. I'm the most
hated man in America on my own page. It's so
bizarre where I go twice a year. That's it. Yeah,
And those are the rules I put on myself because

(55:39):
I know how it makes me feel. But it took
me a long time to get there because it did
not make me feel good. And I would just keep
going back, searching, wanting to get it. But it's but
that if that doesn't tell you, because we have, you
know whatever, a million amount of people. I'm just that
faith Facebook's I don't get on Facebook anyway, but just
an example. Yeah, it's ugly anyway, but I should go there.
That's a page that celebrates me and my friends and

(56:00):
what we've built. I'm the most hated man in America
on that page. It's so often. It should be the
one place I should go if I'm having a down.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Days the crap out of me come on, confusing it's
so confused.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
It really is. That's so confusing on your own stuff.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
The one thing I have learned about social media, though,
if you just do it consistently, your numbers go way up.
Like just like, continue to do it. I put up
the stupidest video the other day. I was like, let
me test this out, because you have you bring in
these consultants come in or people like an agency will
get on and be like, this is what we've learned
about the algorithm. Nobody knows anything. However, they'll go if
you do his post every day. So I was like,

(56:40):
I'm just gonna put up stuid stuff for a while.
And I put up the dumb like dumbest three videos
all three days, and they went crazy. I shouldn't care, right,
I just talked about mental health. I shouldn't care. I
still care, of course, but it's like if I just
put something stupid up sometimes I focus on it's going
to be great, yeah, or if I just put up
it should be quality over quantity. It's not. How if
you just thought up quantity, like you end up winning

(57:02):
that bull crab. Yeah, that's why it's bull crap totally,
and that's why some people are stars. Because they just
do quantity, not as so we do quality, especially you. Yeah,
I'm I'm a fan. I'm super happy that we were
able to do this.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
Yeah, me too, thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
I just again, the first time I saw One House
Down from the Girl next Door, I was like, that's
so clever. Everything has been written every single way. Yeah,
it feels like that, right, every song has been written
every way. And when I read that before, I was like, oh,
that's the holy p we were just going through music.
I was like that. I already liked the song before

(57:39):
I even heard it. I was like, if that's that concept,
I was just like lightning strike. So that did that
to me.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
Oh I love that, Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
So yeah, so check out. I mean that's the whole
name of the project. It's six songs. I don't know anything,
what about anything else. People should follow you on social media,
but only write nice comments.

Speaker 3 (57:59):
Sensitive.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Okay, you have your name, which is nice because you
have a unique name.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
Yes, I didn't get my name. Oh yeah, I know.
It sucks, mister Bobby Bones. They can't even get my
freaking name made La Marlowe. Hey, good job here, thank you.
That's cool and they we're playing bar fight, right, Mike, yep, sweet,
I love that one, I hope.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
So it's good that one. I'm very proud of BLA.
Actually I'm proud.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
Of all of them, but that was why I would
have been like, oh no, I hate that one. We're like,
why do we do this interview if you hate? Like, okay,
well dude, spend a second on that. Why did you
react that way? Why do you love bar fight? Oh?

Speaker 3 (58:33):
I'm so proud of it.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
I had this like very I mean, I was like,
remember it was like a middle of an idea. I'm like,
my heart and my mind are in a bar fight
over you, and I just am like, oh my gosh,
Like the heart is out of control, it's flipping tables,
it's like freaking out, and then the mind is like
running after it.

Speaker 3 (58:48):
Like I had this whole like movie in my head and.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
I was like, this is gonna be an epic song
and it was and it is.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
That's pretty cool. I like, I like confident mad one. Yeah,
she's pretty cool.

Speaker 3 (58:57):
I'm working on it.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Cool. All right, you guys follow at Madeline and I
will see you sometime very soon. I'm sure. All right,
if we had an applause room, we'd all applaud, but
we don't, so we just ended awkwardly perfect cool.

Speaker 3 (59:08):
Love it.

Speaker 5 (59:10):
Thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production.