Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
I think Seth England had a falling out with Morgan
Ballin freaked out and dropped me and a lot of
other people who had stuff going on. And I also
think that they realized that they didn't have the capacity
within their staff to work the kind of music I
was releasing.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Episode four to ninety with Maggie Rose, who's really one
of the best singers in town, and she definitely chose
her own path to do it. She's always been kind
of on the fringe of what is considered mainstream, and
that's always what's made her so cool, kind of ahead
of her time even And what's hilarious we talk about this, Well,
she got a Grammy nomination, and that's not hilarious, but
(00:45):
what happened right before the Grammy nomination, So I don't
want to spoil what we talked about in this episode,
but she was just nominated for Grammy for Best Americana Album,
which is super cool. What was fun to me, Like
I've known Maggie for a decade. It's crazy to say
that word because I've even been here for a decade.
But when I first moved to town and we were touring,
she was on the road with us a lot, and
(01:05):
I didn't know some of the stories that she told
from pre me moving here, Like I didn't know that
she had a whole different name. Yeah, I had no idea.
So Maggie Rose, I'm super happy for her. I think
she had some stuff she wanted to get off her
chest here as well. Yeah, I could tell us. She'd
be like, wait to talk about that stuff. Honored. She
wanted to do it here with me, and she trusted
(01:27):
me that, you know, I would walk through her with it.
I you know, full transparency. Had had some talks with
her about it during the process where she'd call and
be like, what do you think? And I'm no expert
on record labels for sure, but that even that really
wasn't what I was talking to her about. It was
kind of like, don't worry about other folks at all,
Like do you and let all the chips fall? At
(01:48):
least you can be proud of that. But man, she's awesome.
On January tenth, she released a cover of I Can't
Make You Love Me featuring Vince Gill. I Can't Make
You Love Me? Maybe I should do a cover of
that with Maggie very Good featuring featuring Maggie No One
Gets out Alive. That's a record. I hope you check
it out. I hope you like this interview. She's expecting
a baby April with her husband Austin Marshall. She has
(02:10):
a podcast called Salute the Songbird, and she's all over
the road. And here she is on Instagram at I
am Maggie Rose. Here is Maggie Rose.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
A lot of labels would say like, we love what
you do, we just don't know what to do with you.
And I would be met with that all the time.
And so I think you just got to keep making music. Well,
and you know, this whole Big Loud thing, Like I talked.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
To you after that happened, And do you want to
say what that is before you talk about it? Do
you mind talking what saying?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Well, I haven't gotten to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Would you like to talk about it?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
So then let's let's back up. And first of all,
Big Loud is a label. Yes, it's also management. It's all.
It's a thing.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
But they signed you, they signed me, and like they are,
you know, by all conventional standards, crushing it. They at
the time that I signed with them, had Morgan Wallen
and Hardy and Earnest, and they were trying to expand
and I had already made No One Gets Out Alive.
(03:18):
The record was done, it was mastered. I was probably
going to just release it the way I'd released my
previous two albums, which is change the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
No no, no, you say, released it as you did
your last two albums.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Just independently, like with A. I have a good team
of publicists and distributors, and you know, we would hire
independent promotion and everything more for Triple A Radio and
Americana focuses. But Nate Yetton heard this record and he
was hired as an A and R, which is kind
(03:51):
of the could be the coolest job ever. Your job
is to cultivate.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, let's go find it and build it.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
He His specific Fick objective with Big Loud was to
broaden their musical roster to find critical acclaim Like he
told me and my husband Austin, He's like, you know,
we want a Grammy.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Critical acclaim by the way, artists that you're respected for
having but may not be commercially as viable. But you're like,
they're really good and the critics love them. But and
there's a difference but they wanted something that wasn't populous.
Yes type, because Morgan's killing a Harty's killing it, and
people will be like, well, you got people that are
(04:36):
making hits. They wanted a symphony. Yeah, and that's you.
They wanted you.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I was totally flattered and inspired by the vision and
it was surprising to me. I don't feel like I
was definitely the outlier on their roster, and in terms
of critical acclaim like, no, I'm not shy about saying
that we've had no shortage of that the last couple
of records. And that goes back to your question about
(05:03):
you know, frustration and myself and people. It's like, yeah,
that was there.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
But I think credibility is another word I would use.
Not to interrupt you, I just want to make sure
our audience knows what's going on. I think they wanted
credibility from music with depth. Yeah, not that the other
guys don't have it, but they're killing it again, I
use work populous in a very populous way. They want
a credibility, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
When I think they're a young enough company that that
was the right time for them to then take that
step in the direction to say okay, we can do
more than just have these massive streaming darlings and you know,
go direct to consumer and have a hit. And I
have no doubt that they love this record. Like that's
(05:46):
not something that I negate and I appreciate their vision
in it, but like it was an undeniable offer. It
was like, we're going to acquire this whole album. We
made beautiful music videos, We did all this incredible artwork
and packaging, you know, with Sofia Matanezade and Nikki Fletcher
(06:08):
shooting these videos, and they talked about partnering with Polydor
out of UK and just how like this was going
to be, you know, an adult contemporary pop album, and
they were really going to strategize on the marketing plan,
like and.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
They were promising and using resources, yes, and.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
It wasn't like they implemented those resources in a lot
of ways. And you know, I'd already waited to put
this music out, so with that promise of this plan,
I waited a little longer. And it came out in
April of twenty four and they put billboards all over
(06:49):
East Nashville, and we did these showcases in New York
City in LA and you know, we got on like
these great reviews upon the release, and then it was
like radio silence, which is.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
What they were looking for, by the way, to have
an artist that would be reviewed wonderfully by critics. Right,
this this snobby part which is important. Yeah, yeah, the
people that. Yeah, so so you get ever, you get
what they brought you to do. You've created something, and
what you created was exactly what they had asked you
to do. You went and did it all and then
(07:24):
silent Yeah from who what do you mean? Silent?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Like from And there's a lot of people like I
think Candice Watkins is amazing there. She was really engaged,
and I'm not sure that she she liked me. I
think was blindsided about the whole thing. But I'm out
on the road. I'm on the No One Gets Out
Alive tour. I find out that like some of the
(07:49):
digital marketing spending is comparable to like what I did
on my own with one song on the previous record,
And it's like all this investment leading up to the
release and then it's like someone freaked out or something happened,
and I can speculate, and I can only speculate because
(08:09):
no one's called me and told me what's happened?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
What happened?
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I think Seth England had a falling out with Morgan
Ballin and freaked out and dropped me and a lot
of other people who had stuff going on. And I
also think that they realized that they didn't have the
capacity within their staff to work the kind of music
I was releasing. So they are great with Spotify and
(08:36):
these streaming services and all that stuff, but like the
nuance that they talked about using with this music, they
didn't have it. They just didn't have the stuff. And
it was three months after we put this record out. Like,
it can't be based on metrics. It can't be based
on analytics of how the music is performing. It hasn't
(08:56):
even been out long enough.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So I want to speculate, and I want to be
a very uneducated with my speculation. And if I'm wrong,
tell me I'm wrong.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah, they can call me if they want to correct me.
I'd happily here.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Well I know less than you because I'm not involved
in this. But when you say Seth and Morgan had
a falling out, my belief is Morgan did not want
to be managed anymore by Big Loud, which was his label,
and they have a multi if I'm right, they manage,
they produce, they do it all. And to lose that money.
(09:30):
If Morgan's like, it's devastating, devastating, because I'll just talk
about my management. My management makes RAG makes ten fifteen percent. Yeah,
so think about that millions of dollars and fifteen percent
of that is now gone. And again they may have
had a deal where instead of the twenty five or whatever,
(09:50):
we'll just say fifteen percent because that's what I know.
That's a lot of money, Yeah, which I'm sure they
are budgeting to have and to use in other places,
and now they don't have it. I guess what sucks
is you weren't communicated that.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
No. I felt like I was. Also, they were signing
up a storm, like there were so many new acts
getting signed after my initial signing, and I felt like
my guy Nate Gyetten, who I felt I was very
close to, like he took his eye off the ball.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
For sure, on you because of they were signing everyone
else or because they had not figure how to make money.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
You think, well, I think he was very ambitious about
finding these new acts to build the roster. And you
know that is his prerogative and that was his job
and what he was asked to do. But there were
I look back at, like my correspondence, like I was
sending new songs for just starting to toss out stuff
(10:53):
that I'd want to record for the next project, and
like not really getting a lot of engagement.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
What would your team sake if that happens, And it's
happened a version of this has happened with me and
TV Networks, Right if I become not the shiny toy,
two different things. You know, they don't call back as much,
they won't answer, So I'll just go to my team, like, hey,
what's up. If you're doing that with your team, what
are they telling you?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Well, I think we did talk to them. I had
a show in May in Nashville, and you know, Austin
sat down with Candace and was like, what's going on,
Like we just feel like there's a lag in communication
where it was full court press leading up to that,
(11:38):
and Candace said, this record's a baby, like we're just
getting started, and that immediately put us at ease, and like,
I thought this was my home for a long time
based on the creative freedom they had given me. How
much I knew that they.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Love this record money they'd spent.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, I mean, and I've gotten all those masters back.
I've gotten all those assets back. They made me whole lot.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Did you have to buy back?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
No, I did, like a royalty override, which I think
that's pretty telling too, that it was that I was
able to reacquire all of that.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Explain a royalty override.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
So basically, if they want to see any of the
returns on their investment, that music has to perform well,
and they get like the investment that maybe I made
in the recording and a little bit of interest on
top of that, but not on the videos, not on
like all this other stuff. So it really is a shame.
I wanted to win with them, and I ended up
(12:43):
submitting for the Grammys by myself. But I get to
take all of those things, and I've gone to I've
signed now with one Riot and Virgin Music Group, and
now they get to use all that stuff that I
got to make with Loud, but also with the creative
director and music video director who were outsourced, who I
(13:05):
have relationships with already.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Anyway, how did the conversation, When did the conversation happen?
Where it's like, Okay, we're breaking up, because again it
sounds like they were kicking they can't or they just
didn't want to have that difficult conversation with.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
You they didn't have it, or it was July twenty second.
I had gotten back from a pretty gnarly run. It
was a tough My sound guy was sick, it was
the gigs were tough. And then that Monday morning, I
go into Narvel Blackstock's office. Noarvel's been managing me with
(13:36):
Austin for eight years now, and he's a pro, like
he was married to Reba and he's seen it all.
And I sit in his office and his eyes are
so watery, and I'm just like, oh God, what is
what am I about to hear? I thought I was
going to hear news. I didn't know what I was
going to hear. And he just said, I've been holding
(13:58):
this all weekend last third. I went to the office
and Big Loud and I sat with Seth and Nate
and we walked into the conference room kind of made
small talk. We're figuring out how to work the lights.
And then after we got done talking about postmone or
whatever they said, I say, so we're not moving forward
with Maggie, and he said he was just in a daze,
(14:21):
like didn't even know how to respond because it was
such a quick, like abrupt cutting off of this long
term plan, like it took us longer to negotiate this deal.
I feel like then I was actually with them, and
I really felt and I'm not this is not my
first time around the block, like I'm not so trusting
(14:44):
of any organization, and I really do feel like I
had friendships at this at this label, and we all
were excited about the opportunity, and then it just was
like like I even feel some part of my heart
feels sympathy for Nate, even though I wish he had
(15:06):
communicated with me more. That like this was pulled on
him quickly, and Marvelle finally said he snapped back into
it and was like, well, you're gonna give her a
master's back, right. They didn't even have a plan for that.
So it took about six weeks to figure that out.
And I still hadn't heard directly from anyone, No one
(15:28):
talked to me.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
That part, to me, is crazy.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
I just that's I do not operate that way. Ghosting
and all that crazy stuff is like I don't know.
It's like for early twenties dating behavior. It's not how
you conduct business. And I like, obviously I'm still sore
about it, and I have all these great things to
(15:55):
have ended the year with, but it's and then I
found out two weeks later I was pregnant, and it
was just like, you know, truly, not that that wasn't
an amazing, happy piece of news, but it was definitely
like an oh crap.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, So what kind of closure do you feel like? Now,
I'm not gonna say neat because you don't need it,
but what kind of closure would you like?
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I think I've gotten it in so many ways. I
love my new team.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Yeah, there's still resentment there. I'd be way worse than you.
I mean I would be I'd be on fire.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Still, you know, I did get a text and I
usually don't get into this kind of like conversation talking
about texts and correspondence, but it is that's everything at
the end of the day. Like I've worked with so
many people over all these years I've been here, and
not a whole lot of bridges burned because there's mutual respect.
(17:01):
If we had gone through the process of really working
this music and it just didn't work, and we had
to say, like, all right, like we tried, then that
would be fine. Or if they leveled with me and said,
this is happening with us, and you know, apparently there
(17:22):
was some suggestion this has nothing to do with Maggie
Da Da Da too, Norvel, but they left me open
to all this speculation. I think I said this to
you when I was trying to deal with like what
are people thinking out there about this? They left me
open to people just kind of wondering, oh, what did
(17:43):
she do to mess that up? Because no one they
just didn't say anything. It's like, we put this record
out in such a big way or what could have
been a big way, and then we just weren't working
together anymore. And the text I finally got in September
from Nate probably instigated by the fact that other artists
(18:06):
at Big Loud were starting to figure out. They're like, wait,
what the hell happened? It was like urging him to
then finally reach out. He's like, sorry, we haven't spoken
since we parted ways. I just was told not to
reach out until we reached a master's agreement. Well, at
that point we had reached it. A long time ago,
and the implication of parting ways is so such a
(18:29):
cop out to me because it would imply that it
was mutual and that it was humane and that it
was done with respect. So I guess that's the closure.
It's like, let's not rewrite the narrative this was. This
could have been a really devastating blow to my career,
(18:50):
to my will to keep doing this. And I think
about other artists who were dropped from Big Loud around
the same time, who, like I would I could sit
down and talk to because they might be attributing so
much value to that opportunity that was given to them
and then have it taken away and that could be
such a deterrent for them to keep making music in
(19:13):
the future. And it's just like, there are there are
repercussions for doing that to people.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Do you just wish you knew why? Like if someone
that made the decision would say, all right, for real,
here's the thing. Either nice, you know it's good we
thought you were, yeah, or we're not making it as
much much as thought we would and we couldn't afford
it like that. I feel like that would be nice. Yeah,
just that whatever it is, like the real answer.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah, I I think I want to know what they
think their reasons were. But if it were any of
those reasons, I mean we're getting all the things that
they wanted in terms of critical claim or validation, and
then in terms of performance find financially like how premature
(20:04):
well the move to make.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
And unfair if that's what they're saying, because again they
knew going into it. I assumed they knew going into
it that again they wanted critical acclaim and it's not
like an n Sync album. This does two million records
in the first week, right with critical acclaim that takes
a while, which is why that can't possibly beat it
because it's not like you're expecting on week one streams
(20:27):
to be able to you know, a ten multiply on
the investment. So yeah, I would want to know even
if it was I always don't like it anymore, like
I would like to know something because I think I
wouldt are doubting myself.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, I mean, there was a there was a danger
of that for a minute, and I mean I think
I started to regain my confidence in like October, but
it was also so weird because Bobby I got the
Master's back and I was walking into my house and
serious exem you know they do those bumpers. They're like, Hi,
(21:05):
this is Maggie Ro's and this my song Fake Flowers,
and like it was. They were playing it like every hour,
and I'm busy dealing with attorneys, like just feeling like
what's going on. And the first gig that we did
when I got that text, I was out at the
Gorge with Dave Matthews and I just felt like it
(21:25):
was working and finally taking hold. And then all this
stuff was I was navigating behind the scenes, and luckily
I have such a great partnership with Austin. I love
my band. I was trying not to freak them out.
(21:45):
There was a lot that like I couldn't tell them
right away, and like I love this music and people
were showing up and things were happening. I felt like
I was just not able and music row can be
that way. They're like so in their own bubble that
they don't see these other things that are happening around
(22:07):
a lot of artists who just because they make music
in Nashville, it doesn't mean that it's going to manifest
or perform in those spaces the way they want it to,
but it's happening elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
It's I go back to Irony. You canniinated for a Grammy.
That is the exact reason that that label wanted a relationship.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
I know, I know, I know it's weird and that's
and all these award shows have their flaws, but like,
that is a peer voted award.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
And even if it's not, there is just credibility with
a Grammy. Even if it's the shadiest worst blood diamond relate,
it doesn't matter. Yeah, there is nothing more credible than
a Grammy because the normal people don't know how that is,
how that happens. Like, yeah, I'm a voter and used
to be until a few years ago. They go into
a back room. I can change the vote. Remember, Mike,
(23:02):
we've talked about this, right, I am a Grammy voter,
and that's the most credible thing you can possibly have. Yeah,
I mean, I mean I have a doctorate other than that,
you know, after after my honorary doctorate. Yes, and you
so you submit I know the process. I submitted to
kids Record once. Yeah, and then you just wait and
you obviously I'm like, I know we're not going to
(23:25):
get nominated, but if we just submit this, maybe it's
makes creates a little more awareness for the next time.
That's what I'm telling myself. In the kids category, Yeah,
you submit what was best possible scenario when you submit
for a Grammy.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
What we got the Best Americana album?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
So you thought you possibly could be nominated when you
send it off.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I mean, I had to shoot my shot, and I'm
I'm really involved with the Academy in Nashville, like I
work with advocacy, and there's so much that I love
about it that goes beyond the awards. But I was like, yeah,
I need to go through this process.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And how'd you know they call you? Do you see
it online? First? What happens?
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I was out on a hike and did you know?
Speaker 2 (24:08):
It was like, did you know they were going to
nominate that day? So are you like waiting to hear
if you got nominated?
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I actually so. They do a broadcast a live stream,
and this was on the eleventh of November, I think,
and I knew that they everyone finds out at the
same time, so they just announced all the people in
my category on the.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Live stream and you knew the stream was happening, Yes,
But I was out and watch, but you weren't watching.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah, okay, and I guess because I had my my
fitness setting on, I wasn't getting all the texts, but
I was getting them from like those people on your
your favorites list. And Austin was also not watching at
the time. And then I just was like, well, I
haven't heard anything, so I just didn't realize that they
(24:57):
weren't coming through. And I reached out to him. I
was like, well, you know, we tried and we can
be proud of that. And then he was getting to
starstruck the office at that time, and I heard him
on the phone like as the elevator doors were opening,
and it was all the girls on his floor just
shrieking because they had seen it like moments before we did.
(25:21):
And yeah, it was surreal. I was like, I think
we deserved it. I wasn't expecting it at all. There
wasn't And I'm not just saying that to like.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
I believe say it. I believe both of those statements.
I believe you think you deserved it, and I believe
you didn't think you're going to get it.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah, because it is. It is. There's politics to it.
But what I do love about the Grammys is it's
not like other award shows where you have labels being like,
all right, we'll vote for you if you vote for us,
and all this block voting stuff like you have to
be making music or in broadcasting or kind of participating
(26:06):
in that output to be able to vote.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
And you people vote for the Grammy because again, I'm
a Grammy voter from all over, Right, We're here. Most
of the voting's coming from like a twelve mile radius,
right where a lot of people are being exposed to
a lot of different things and aren't in the specific
clicks and don't even know the people to trade votes with. Yeah,
and I think that helps broaden the Grammys a little
(26:31):
more than a specific Nashville Country Music award, Right.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
I mean, you can get someone who's not necessarily got
the best numbers who's going to qualify for that award,
and you have to also vote. This is kind of new.
You have to pick the categories in addition to like
the Big Five, which are Album of the Year, Arts
of the Year. The additional categories you have to select
(26:57):
have to pertain somewhat to what you work within, so
you're not like voting just based on nothing for artists
who make music that's totally outside of what you do.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Like you don't see a name, it just click it
because it looks cool. Like sometimes when voting, you're like, oh,
I saw that that billboard that's sign Yeah I like
the name Clint, So I'm gonna vote for Clint. Yeah. Yeah,
that doesn't happen anymore, which which even in my time
is being a voter. I used to be like that
you could vote for all the awards totally and so
it didn't matter. And then I never wanted to not
vote in a category, so.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I would just vote for something mm hmm exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
I literally would because I didn't participation. I didn't want
to look like I think I was lazy. Yeah, I
just click something. And so once you're nominated, like what,
I don't know what happens. Does your team go, let's
strike while the iron is hot. Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
So at that point once when I submitted, I was
not signed yet to my new label with Virgin, and
now I have to say, they're kind of like, holy shit,
what have we stepped into? There was even you know,
I just cut like six songs at the very beginning
(28:10):
of this year to kind of start putting together the
next thing. But this bought me a whole new life
for this record. So with that nomination, I think they've
refocused on all the life that's left and what we
can do with this music. But we we reworked some
of the songs from the record, like I have a
(28:32):
song with Vince Gill coming out on Friday that's completing
like the deluxe version of this record, and I think
it just sort of was like we threw this hot
potato at them and we've been trying to extract as
much as we can out of it.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
It's also kind of funny feeling that you do this
record a year ago and now it's new again.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Yeah, and some of these songs are very prophetic, Like
if you listen to it, it's a lot about like
what I went through this year and the themes and everything.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
And we're back on the Bobby Cast. When you and
I talked, I have to constantly like keep myself from
like doing anything creative and everything being based on if
people like it. What's a weird life to live. Yeah,
you're giving a lot of power to something you have
no control over or people you will never meet and see,
(29:38):
and something you cannot predict. At times, I wish I
were like my stepdad and he went to the mill,
knew what he was doing, did his eight hours, went home,
didn't worry about anything else, didn't, wasn't neurotic. Was like
at times, not mostly, but at times I'm pretty envious
(29:58):
of the But I am and you are wired like
we're wired. We have a screw loose. It happens to
be a good screw at times, which is why we
pursue this. But I have to constantly wind myself, and
I do this if I meditate. I try to meditate,
and my mantra is nothing matters, nobody cares. Yeah, And
(30:22):
I remember talking the most joyful way, yes, And I
remember talking to you about that specifically and going, nobody
cares about you in the best way because it sounds harsh.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Look at what's going on, and we're so lucky to
get to do.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
This, and people have spent so much of their time
thinking about themselves. Yeah, I think that if I'm on
a show that doesn't get picked up and I'm embarrassed
and I'm like, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
This shows like the theme My takeaway from this year
is what you just said.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
It's I would obsess over it. I mean, like, I'm
so embarrassed, how am I even going to go in
front of people? You know what, Nobody cared and not
that nobody cares about me, and not that nobody cares,
but nobody invests so much time in thinking about what
I didn't do right, and that gives me a freedom
to not care either but care fully right. And so
(31:16):
nothing matters. Nobody cares. I say that, And there's a
lot of off that matters, like little things matter way
more at times than I give them credit for. But
nothing Sometimes that I put all my worth and value
to none of that matters.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
And I know what you mean. You're not saying that
in like a nihilistic way. It's like this is we're
adding joy and color to the world. And I find
it liberating that it's all like on a whim. If
people like it or not, there's no rhyme or reason
to it. And I think I I, as someone who
makes music, care when I see someone else have a
(31:54):
perceived failure and then they keep going because like that
that you're out there doing it and you're taking chances
and you're daring to grow. So yeah, I mean I
care in that regard, but I'm obviously watching from a
different perspective.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
And I care at times blindly about so many things.
But the most positive, freeing thing I can tell myself
is nothing matters. Nobody cares, yeah, and I should not
worry about something matter. And what I mean is to
other people when it comes to me, I invest so
much time in thinking, oh man, this failure mattered so
much that people are going to look at me different
(32:34):
that nobody cares.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah. I needed to hear that at that time too,
because that was what I was so worried about. Was God,
we made such a big splash about this partnership, and
for me, it was I kept saying in interviews and
I kind of like WinCE when I hear them again.
I was like, my jaded heart grew three sizes, like
(32:57):
this music real label actually is letting me do what
I want to do and believing in me. And then
there's just aged like milk, and it's like I was
just worried about people wondering how I had messed it up,
and no.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
One, nobody thought about that's.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Just not And it's also most likely not about me,
and it sucks that I was a casualty of that.
But I think you also just need to make music
that or whatever it is that you do creatively that
you're going to enjoy and hope that people will like
(33:36):
it as well.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
And if they don't, they're not gonna not like it
for very long. Doesn't mean they're gonna like it, They're
not gonna spend It's even the world of haters. I
felt that world almost dissipate completely in that there are
ten million things out there. It used to be when
there were like four four people, and I was one
of the four people, a lot of haters because I
was different, I didn't really fit anywhere. I would compare
(34:00):
our careers they're very similar in that we've never actually
belonged to a specific group that traditionally resides here.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Oh yeah, you were like, oh yeah, just a total
wild card.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Didn't really belong didn't have.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Because it challenged other people to then have to get
out of their box, didn't have people projecting their own
worries about what it is that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
And because I felt like I never belonged anywhere, the
exterior got a little rougher.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah, I'm a different person than I was, you know.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
And so it got so rough that it got extremely
soft because I think I've experienced with yourself, with not
only with myself, but with other people now that are
told they're not quite like the rest, and where they
feel like that's a bad thing, that'll end up being
the thing. That is the way you will be successful
(35:08):
beyond mildly successful. Right, And if your goal is to
be mildly successful, there's a pattern and you can do
the I'm gonna make this type of song. You gonna
have a certain amount of talent makes this type of
song gonna sound this way. I'm gonna do it. Okay,
you'll be monley successful, like be like everybody else. Good
for you. You go and you do some shows, you'll
have a five year window of a shelf life of
a career as an artist, and you'll go about your
(35:30):
way and play your hits forever and you'll be mindly successful.
That's great if that's your goal. But if it's to
be like transcendent and different, you have to be different,
and that's hurts and that's awkward for everybody. And it's
cool to see that now happen with you, because that's all.
It sucked for a while and you've been different and
(35:51):
it's been awkward, and people are like, we don't know
what to do with you.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah, I didn't necessarily make it really easy for like the.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Powers that be, okay, but you were always things conditioned
you to not make it easy also, Right, So I
don't think you're a person that just decided I want
to be difficult to work with. You're not. That's not you.
But I can understand how being jerked around a bunch
of times or being told that something over and over
again would make you not easy to deal with, because
it hasn't been easy to be dealt with, right.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah, And I'm not afraid to work hard. You're not
afraid to work hard, but I am not willing to
do work that I feel like is a shortcut or
just a compromise all the time.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Yeah, I go. I'm pure investment now, like I'm not
doing I'm not investing in anything time, energy, money, who
cares that that? But creatively, I'm not investing anything less.
It's pure.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
And if it's.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Because you've been around long enough, you're not going anywhere.
You're gonna have to live with that credit.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
It exists forever, and I've and it's okay if it
doesn't work, yeah, because it's not worked a lot of times.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Well, and look at all this, I feel like there's
so much music now that the one good thing I
will say about TikTok is there's songs that are four
years old from these Sacred Souls that's just now popping off.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
It's like.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Everything you do is worth doing well because even if
it lies dormant for a while. Like I know, people
are now discovering this record because of the Grammy nomination,
but there's songs from previous albums that people know now
that they wouldn't have known, and I'm glad I made
those with the best intentions.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
I appreciate being scared now. Yeah, I think I was.
There was an expected node to everything, and so I
was always fighting and angry or trying to prove myself.
(37:55):
And now creatively, I give you an example my comedy
special right, and it's it's gonna be terrible.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Why what do you mean? I wasn't expecting sentenced that way.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I look at it, I hate it. I watch it.
Oh No, But the thing is, I bet it's awesome.
I've done this, is it awesome? Nobody's seen it read.
I've done this enough time. I've hated every book I've written.
I've hated I've hated everything I've ever done. But it's
happened so many times, and most, not all, have turned
(38:28):
into something good or something You've hated every book, Oh
my god, I couldn't read them back, hated them.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
I don't ride around town listening to my album.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Cringe, like, don't want it, but I don't.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah yeah so, but but so here's what's fun about it.
I hate it. I hate my comedy. Special worked extremely
hard on. It's extremely personal, and it's it's it's and
it's not even pure. It's again it's awkward because it's
not pure comedy. It is it's called comedically inspirational. I've
not seen anything like this, and it could be. It
could because it's odd, but it's it's fun to be scared,
(39:08):
and it's fun to hate it because I have to
go back to loving it while I was touring it.
I have to go back and remember that, yeah, how
I felt doing it, how I felt when something would
work but once it got to the edit part, or
like I hated it because I was like, this is
not good.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
You'll fall in love with it.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Again maybe in five years, honestly, Oh my god. But
the creative process is a bizarre.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Right, absolutely, Oh I I felt like I didn't. It
was painful to even listen to these songs for a
while when this happened, I just felt like it was
a it was weaponized against me. And then I kind
of had to confront it because I was in the
middle of this tour. I was had to sing these songs.
(39:57):
But that happened with Havist too, when the pandemic happened.
That album was done, and then I had to wait
forever and I couldn't even listen to it. It was too painful,
But that was more circumstantial.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Different reasons, Yeah, but same Yeah, like the one, I
avoid it right, and again, this may be a disaster
for me and people may go, you're completely unfunny.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
But if I don't get that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
No, but it actually might. And that's okay because I'm
okay with it now. And this is my point about
all the crap and the nose and the it doesn't
really work, or that being getting so close to landing
certain TV jobs and not getting it, and that nothing matters.
None of that stuff that didn't work in the past.
It's not connected to me at all right now, like
I've bombed hard, I've missed things hard. I've gotten so
close to big things and not gotten them many many times.
(40:44):
It doesn't matter. But that is I'm wearing none of
that today, and so if this doesn't work out, it
doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I feel like the universe removes those things from your
path if they're not right. It could have just those
big opportunities could have become all consuming to you and
where you would have ended up. But you also have
these big partners investing in that risk with you. They
have skin in the game.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
But I'm not even talking about me. I'm just using
this as an example of the the bizarre world of
creating and needing approval from people you don't know, hoping
that what you're doing resonates when you don't know feeling
great about it. And then again, we have different relationships
(41:30):
with our art, and that relationship change one hundred times
in the next fifty years. And now I'm appreciative of
which is nobody cares for that because I've been able
to go through crap so many times, right, and I'm
able to see other people that get put in awkward
situations and go, hey, it's gonna be good. That's that
(41:51):
softness though, that's it. That's so hard that it made
me soft. That's a weird thing to say right there.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
I felt that so hard though, when you said that,
because it does allow you to get reacquainted with it
every time you need.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
To, and I yeah, and have peace with it. So
when you're pregnant and you sing, I feel like it
that's not standard anything and everything right, like diaphragm.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Yes, you're a diaphragm. Like it has to be pretty strong.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Does it. I don't know. I don't know pregnant. You know,
you don't have to tell me. I don't know the
rules about asking about that. You're allowed, it's okay, but
I don't even know the rules.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
I'm twenty seven weeks. I'm about to start my seventh month.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Yeah, even that's tough for me because, yeah, I don't
really know where that is yet.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
But I also have always been the person who's like,
do you really need to talk in weeks saying, And
now that I'm there, it's like, oh, I get why
they do it, Like when people like my baby is
fourteen months, I'm like, just say a year. But there's
a reason, like.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
I should I should start saying he well, I am
in weeks. I know when they ask, yeah, I'm thirty
two thousand weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
That's not overwhelming at all.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah, are you singing? Are you performing? Is it a
slow adjustment? As again, pardon any ignorantly asked pregnancy question. Okay,
as that grows.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
You don't need to preface it.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Okay, question Well for the people, because I get messages,
you ask that question appropriately. So for all the haters
out there, relax when that grows and it takes up
space from your tool that you're used to using it,
is it different and is a slow gradual change?
Speaker 1 (43:32):
I think because I just haven't stopped performing, it's not
as perceptible to me. Yeah, But like I just cut
six songs right at the beginning of the year so
that I would have some songs in the can before
it gets to the point where you know I'm not
gonna want to do it And.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Can you go hard?
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Now?
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Can you sing hard? Still? Yes?
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah, I'm doing Jimmy Kimmel.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Next week's congratulations.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
So that's going to be probably one of the last
big performances, and then we do performing a couple of
things around the Grammys and then we'll peace out for
maternity leave for a little bit.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Ironny, you get don it for a Grammy. I think
it's awesome that you're pregnant, but it's you get down
it for a Grammy when you could really be on
the road, right And it's again, both are amazing things,
but the irony is that it happens right when you
kind of have to put yourself off for a little bit.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yeah, I kind of have to wrap it up for
a little bit. And that's all I feel like I've
ever really known is just staying on the road. That's
kind of how especially you know, when I was more
of an independent artist, that was how I road tested
my songs, Like that's how I knew what to put
on a record. But I don't know, it feels it
feels kind of awesome just with the music and everything.
(44:54):
It's something I've wanted to do, which part the starting
a family obviously when a Grammy something.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
I didn't know. It's both are awesome, yeah, in different ways.
And just being nominated for a Grammy. It makes people like,
have you done Kimmel before?
Speaker 1 (45:07):
No?
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Have you done any late night shots before?
Speaker 1 (45:09):
No?
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Because having a Grammy nomination gives you a lot of
leverage to land the spots. Yes, and I'll just assume
I'm assuming it didn't hurt. When you have a Grammy nomination,
you're like, I want to come to Jimmy Kimmel or
they call you and goat like that's probably a big
part of why they were put on too, you unless
there's like a great music producer that happens to where
they just know really good music and they're looking for
(45:31):
an opportunity to put somebody on that they really like,
but they can't really convince their higher ups yet because so.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
This music supervisor at Kimmel, who is it? Jim Pitt?
And I know that he's been interested in booking us, and.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
That's what I mean, like he probably is wanted it,
but you.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Know, this does move the needlet bit. And you know,
there was an offer for us to do it earlier
in December, and two of my bandmates was like, the
only I'd given the band off all year. They'd just
got into Hawaii and it was Monday. They wanted us
on Wednesday, and that was really hard to not be
(46:10):
able to just jump at and do. And then the
first Monday of this year they they made good on
the date and invited us back. But it is funny
that all these very visible opportunities are coming when I'm
like aesthetically just different than you know, I normally would be.
But I also have always said that it would be
(46:31):
nice to see more female performers that are pregnant kind
of out there doing it because I think there's no
stigma to it, and for what I do, I feel
like it's definitely just, you know, part of the process.
It's just my life and I'll figure it out.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
Stigma is interesting because that word doesn't even come to mind.
I'm also not a woman right right, and I'm not
feeling the things emotionally or the pressures that you are,
So I say that, but I don't think stigma. I
think if I were pregnant, I just wouldn't want to sing, right, Like,
that's literally what I would be, like, Yeah, we don't
see a lot of people that are performing pregnant, and
(47:11):
I in my head go, yeah, I definitely wouldn't want
to perform pregnant. Because physically wouldn't feel good.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
I've been really lucky. I felt good. And also just
I love singing physically. I think there's something about just
the act of doing that that's very satisfying to me.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
Also, you're really good. I don't have us I'm not
fishing say nothing back to this positive about me. I
don't have a single skill that is half as good
as you singing, and so.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
I will not allow that comment.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
But I truly believe that with all of my heart, Like,
you are really one of the great vocalists, just period.
And I've been lucky enough to know you for a decade.
At this point, it has been it's been over ten
years ago, yeah, or right at it.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
I'm about to tip my seventeen year in Nashville. How
many seventeen years? But I really feel like, and I'm
not just saying this because I'm sitting with you, Like
the ten year town process for me began around the
time that we met, and that's when I started I
think doing things more on my terms. Like that's when
the clock really started, because the first seven years were
(48:18):
crazy and I was thrown around.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
I don't know that seven years, so i'd like to
know about that seven years if we can, because I
do want to come back to the Grammys and how
I have lots of questions, But again, I do know you.
I do know you.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
Yeah, You've given me lots of really great moments too.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
And it's I know some people in their acquaintances, but
like I know you. I would say I know you
like because we've been on the road together years ago.
We you know, talk on the phone. I'm talking on
the phone to anybody. I hate talking on the phone.
It's the worst thing talking on the phone. It's the
literal worst thing.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Oh I feel I enjoy a phone call.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
I hate a phone call.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
So I have to be in the right mood. But
if I am there long.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
When did you come to town? Why did you come to town?
And what was the expectation you had when you got
to town?
Speaker 1 (49:00):
I was nineteen. It was January fourteenth, two thousand and
eight that I moved into my apartment, which is very
awesome because I'll be performing Kimmel the same day as
my anniversary. And I moved here with Tommy Mottola kind
(49:20):
of as like the liaison for me.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Sony guy. Yeah, Mary Carry's my husband. In that order.
What I would think of when you say that, Yeah,
me too.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
And he was a pretty old school kind of like
how do you know him? I met him through a
family friend of mine who actually was like my financier
in the beginning. He helped fund a lot of my
music and projects. And I got to go to Tommy
(49:50):
Mattola's office because my friend Tom Totelly, who is still
a friend, He's going to come to the Grammys with us,
even though he's not directly involved in my career. He
was there from the beginning, so it felt kind of
meaningful to have him there. But he had a business
associate who knew Tommy, and by some miracle, we caught
(50:15):
him on a day where he was open to having
me visit him at his office, which was in Bergdorf Goodman,
and I was so green. I just like walked in there. Yeah,
played three songs and the melodies were strong, Like I
think he obviously saw that there was something there, and
he agreed to kind of be a consultant. I guess
(50:37):
for my initial move to Nashville. That's how I got
signed to Republic before Republic Nashville even existed, So I
was working with the New York office but operating out
of Nashville, and I just was on this track to
put some music together in six months. So I was
(50:58):
writing with all these amazing writers and did not know
who I was, you know. I think it was like
a baptism by fire experience because I was who knows.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Who they are at nineteen though, even though I'm in
much less an artist, which well, and I.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Think a lot of those initial years I learned so much,
but I was course correcting a lot of it. It's
almost harder to undo those first impressions because you want
to be intentional about who you represent yourself to be.
And I just didn't really get that opportunity. And I
(51:34):
don't think there were any bad actors in that. It
was just we had a very powerful person in Tommy
saying like, you know, you're gonna be a star, and
we're gonna do a music video and do this and that,
and that's just really, first of all, not not exactly
my aspiration. I want to have a sustainable career and
(51:54):
make lots of different types of music for a very
long time. And that's also how the Kings of leon
Cover came to be of use. Somebody, and at that
time I already had some other music that probably would
have sent me musically on a more accurate path to
where I've ended up. But we were just kind of
(52:15):
firing from the hip and that Republic deal fell apart.
It was a singles deal, and Scott Roshadow was kind
of involved, but not really like everyone was like one
foot in, one foot out, And I also think understandably
Scott probably didn't want to be told by someone in
(52:37):
New York who he was and was not going to
work with.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
What's difficult about the one foot in one foot out,
because I've had experiences with that in my career. Is
the one foot in is in case you pop and
you make it.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
Yeah, it felt very conditional.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
The one foot out is I'm not committed, and I
don't plan to be committed unless you pop and you
make it. But if you do, I got my foot in.
I'm happy to like throw throw some support occasionally, but
unless you have unless you're building your own momentum. In
my experience with one footers, that one foot out is
the dominant foot. Yeah, that one foot in is the
I got to foot in and I'm gonna help a
(53:14):
little bit. But it's only really here because if it pops,
I want to be able to get both feed in.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
Yeah. I like the term one footers. Yeah, it's happening
all the time right now. I agree just with how
disposable I think we treat so many of our artists
in town, Like a lot of the labels around town
are signing up a bunch of TikTok artists because you know,
if it works, it works, but there's not a lot
of development.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
And also the label aren't committing a whole lot to
it either, right, I mean on the front side, we're
going to commit and like you said, singles, it's a
new version of that. Yeah, but they're able to now
because I think there's been so much failure with the
TikTok artists. There have really been some that have popped,
no doubt about it. But you're right, it was a
(53:58):
cattle call of all cattle that have had songs have
gone viral, and a race to sign them all. Yeah,
and how that's really translated in the way of you
got a couple of good ones and thirteen that didn't
quite work out. And I think now it's starting to
even itself out a bit a bit more where it's
(54:19):
not totally on an algorithm because you're about two years ago,
that's all it was, right. They were only signing people,
and it.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Was devastating to the people who thought they had gotten
that opportunity.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
And that we're looking to have a sustain like PA
in that career.
Speaker 1 (54:34):
And they couldn't put a thirty minute live set together.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
Because did you feel like you were going to be
because of the people that you had around you, even
if it was temporary or momentary, did you feel like
in your heart like, oh I'm here, it's star time,
Like I got Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
I felt like I was following the full proof template
that had worked so many times for so many people.
And you know, I pushed back a little bit at
the suggestion of doing the Kings of leoncover because I
was like, why would I do someone else's song when
I have these originals that I think are more representative
(55:13):
of who I am. It was like, just do this
and then you can go do it your way like
that was always kind of the mantra I was hearing,
which you know, that's just never really the case. And
when it didn't work out, I felt like I just
kind of had to put the pieces back together and
that there are a few iterations of that over the years.
(55:35):
Like I even went back to the drawing board and
I was like, I'm going to go buy Maggie Rose
now and I'm going to reclaim Mike because it was
it was my government name, Margaret Duranny.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
I didn't see. I didn't know that. Yeah, so you
were Margaret though, well when you did your very first
introductions to people, it was Margaret.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
I never met Margaret.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
No. No, maybe not well you know Margaret.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Yes, but I never met Hi. I'm Margaret, right, you
were Maggie by the time that I that I met you.
Speaker 1 (56:05):
Yeah, And that was sort of me trying to take
my power back and get another crack at that first impression,
and there was like not just you know, I cut
my hair off and I started writing all sorts of
music and performing live was a big way for me
to explore what kind of music I wanted to end
(56:27):
up recording. But then even then I was dealing with
country radio and all the confinements of that, and it
was just tough. There was it was felt very one dimensional,
like your whole life was poured into the success of
whatever radio single you chose, and that could be your
(56:50):
entire year. That's how people know you. And I just
felt like, in a lot of ways when it just
became on Cannibal, that that's maybe the best thing that
happened to me. Like my label folded, I knew you
at this point, and I had a song out at
radio that I was told by the label I was
(57:13):
with at the time, and all my programming friends like,
that's testing the best. You gotta go put out a
girl in your truck song, which that's not who I
am either, And then Maddie and Tay had girl in
a country song and just became this David and Goliath thing,
and I was like, I don't, why would I want
to be here anymore? And put up with that, And
(57:36):
I feel like that's when I made change the whole thing,
which was just still country in its own way, but
like soulful, and I had all my friends in the
studio and we recorded a live record, and like that's
what I mean by the ten year o'clock kind of
starting around that time because I just felt like I
(57:58):
had to. I had like almost to do damage control
more than take all these years I had invested and
build upon them.
Speaker 2 (58:07):
Do you ever think about leaving yes, did you ever
leave for a minute? No, how close you get to leaving.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
I thought very seriously about moving to la in twenty fifteen.
Speaker 2 (58:20):
Why didn't you?
Speaker 1 (58:22):
I think a lot of things happen in Nashville that
encouraged me to stay that record. Being able to just
make a record with my friends and realized that I
was capable without an investor and without a label and
like really be hungry for a while and have it
(58:45):
turned out the way it did was encouraging. And I think, like,
I owe so much of the success I have to
this community. I owe a lot of the reasons that
I'm better at what I do to like opticles that
this city presented me. But I don't know, I feel
really really rooted here now.
Speaker 2 (59:08):
I feel like the common sentiment about you, I would
hear this obviously when you weren't around. So that's how
you know it's the truth. That's why people say when
you're not around. The actual truth is I think a
lot of people were frustrated for you. Yeah, meaning it
wasn't that they're like, Maggie got screwed over. It was
(59:29):
Maggie's awesome in the music she's making awesome, and the
landscape of whatever the current popular country format was wasn't
exactly where you were. You were ahead of it a bit,
and it was just like people just wanted them to match. Yeah,
because you're wildly talented and you work very hard, and
(59:51):
when those two things come together, that's usually a great combination.
And we're seeing it now. As a matter of fact,
I mean this is it should probably taken a little longer
than you initially thought. Hey, I took it longer me
for what I thought too. Yeah, But I think most
people were frustrated for you because they knew you and
liked you. They would see you perform and were intimidated
by you in the best way, and it was like, man,
(01:00:14):
she's either swung and missed so hard or she's ahead
of her time. And I think it was the latter,
is that you were just a bit ahead of where
the landscape of country music is. Maybe so and okay,
because I felt frustration for you, did you feel other
(01:00:35):
people being frustrated for you? Yes, yeah, not sad for you.
There's a difference.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
I think it's shared frustration with a lot of artists
who are not totally doing like the country thing, or
even artists who are country adjacent and can't seem to
like click.
Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
The funny thing about country adjacent, though, is that country
adjacent most of the time ends up being made country. Yeah,
Like you can look at Sam Hunt, you can, we can,
we can do ten artists who were country adjacent when
they came out, and everybody's like that, that's not really it.
It's a country adjacent but it was so strong and
powerful that it kind of removed the adjacent from itself.
(01:01:17):
And that live record was incredible and even like the
media you shot for it, like all that was just
such a like a powerful project. Because again, you're you're,
you're one of the best. Yeah. I think everybody, just
myself included, was like, oh, it's not.
Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
If it's when the Bobby Cast will be right back.
This is the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
We before you came in, we talked about the album
and did a whole deal. And I'm really I'm really
happy for you in a way of not like condescending,
like I'm happy for you. It's not about the Grammy nomination.
It's like when someone owes you money and they finally
pay the money.
Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
It's like it's like it's a good analogy.
Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
Yeah, like I think you're finally getting paid back. Yeah,
a bit.
Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
So it doesn't feel it feels sturdy in a way
that I feel a lot of peace with. Like I'm
very excited. I feel like a calm about it. And
I think if all these things had happened to me
five years ago, I don't know if i'd be as.
Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
It wouldn't calm.
Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
You kind of needed, probably like let it affect me
and get weird or something.
Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
I'm a fan. Well likewise, yeah, no, I I'm so
happy for you, and you're going to go through this
and I'm going to go through this another I don't know,
one hundred times in the next twenty years.
Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Well, I can't say we're not ready for it.
Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
And we'll have an understand even a little more every
single time it happens, and we'll be able to pass
that along to other folks too. And you know, how's
the podcast going? By the way, you still doing it?
Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Yeah, it's great. We're doing it live at Chief or
Churches Bar. Yes, And I love him. He's been like
an interesting friend in all of this stuff. And it's
it's all women guests, and I love the fact that
it's in front of a live audience because conversations just
seem to fly by and everyone's on like you know,
(01:03:30):
they're extra sparkly behavior and there's music involved. But we
do it once a month because I wanted to once
I came out with a new format. I don't ever
want to commit to something and then under deliver. But yeah,
we'll have Caitlin Smith on and Britney Spencer and Molly Tuttle,
(01:03:52):
and I just it makes me a better musician to
talk to people and to kind of dive into their
world and realize as even these people who you think
have it all figured out, you know, I've interviewed Melissa
Ethridge and Kathy Wilson from Heart and they've just been
through it and they're going through it in other ways.
(01:04:14):
I feel like it's is it weird to say that
that's comforting?
Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
You're not isolated and the loan everyone. It's just nobody's
sharing it out openly unless you can have a relationship
about it. So yeah, it's not like you and I
could have this conversation with many other people that haven't
had to suffer through a similar thing. But there are
conferences we can't have with people about their you know,
you have to find somebody that relates right, because it's weird.
(01:04:41):
Even with my job for the radio show, for example,
I will complain like crazy about waking up in the
morning and I hate it's worse. I'm not a morning
person quite the profession exactly. There's only certain people I
can complain to about it and know that it's really
not that bad. Like it sucks, I hate it, but
in the grand scheme it's okay. Yeah, but I feel
(01:05:01):
like I can really you know, or if I'm on
the road a lot, touring and I'm like, it sucks.
Someone that knows how sucky it is to be on
the road going in the back doors of places eating
crabby food. Yea, even though you're telling jokes to fifteen
hundred people.
Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
You know, it's a juxtaposition loneliness to extreme extra version.
Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
I like talking with people that are crazy like me.
It doesn't make me feel as crazy.
Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
Yeah, that's exactly it, because.
Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
I'm not crazy. They just don't get to share it
just the right amount. I have a screw screwless, a
couple of screws, a lot of screws.
Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
You need to be a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
I'm like a I'm like an ikea table that when
you're done with it, you got parts left over. Yeah,
Like I guess that was supposed to be in there.
That's me. Okay, look slut Songbird. That is the podcast
we talked about the album a bunch before you got here.
Congratulations on the Grammy nomination. And I think you did
(01:05:57):
this awesome. Thank you because I think and I don't know,
you may leave and go, how do I like what
I said about the things that have been affecting me
over the past few months. I think you handled it awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
I feel well, thank you for saying that. It's also
nice to tell the story from this vantage point, you know,
I feel having some time between it that event and
also just all the great things that have happened at
the end of this year, and also like talking about
(01:06:31):
being softer and putting things into perspective, like I'm on
the precipice of like one of the most seismic shifts
with becoming a mom that you're just like, I'll figure
it out. I will, and we just we have like
Stapleton dates two months after he arrives, and we're just
gonna figure it out. But I think it helps that
(01:06:55):
I don't think there was anyone with malintent in this,
just think there was a lack of consideration and I
hate that for.
Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
Marriage, some embarrassment on their side. Yeah, like like I
mean honestly right, maybe at times I've found that where
the people are embarrassed and meet stubbornness and they don't
want to have to have the hard conversation, but just
they're embarrassed.
Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
Or if someone feels they're sparing me something, well whatever,
the proof is in the pudding with what has happened now,
And I think it's like nice for me to share
the story for any artists who feels maybe like they're
attributing way too much of their value to these things
that are totally like circumstantial, and they'll come and go
(01:07:41):
like what you're saying, you just have to keep attempting
and try and do it in the most sincere way.
Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
It doesn't work because it's not gonna work because if
you're a tempting it there, things aren't gonna work.
Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
Yeah, that's that's guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
Yeah, and everything's working and then you're not really trying hard.
Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
Enough, yes, yeah, or you're too comfortable, which is what
you did when you came in and ruffled all the feathers.
Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
I am Maggie Rose, I am not. That's her Instagram name.
I am Bobby. Go follow Maggie. Check out the music,
and Maggie, good to see you, and good to see you.
Good luck and I'll see you. Thanks for listening to
a Bobby Cast production.