August 6, 2026 • 40 mins
We're answering a heartbreaking listener question from a woman who survived a severely abusive relationship, one that included manipulation, threats, and abandonment during her pregnancy, and is now trying to figure out how to move forward knowing she may never get justice, accountability, or an apology, especially watching her ex seemingly land on his feet.
Then we shift to a listener wondering if her parents' frequent casino trips have crossed the line from hobby into addiction, and how to bring up the fact that she and her kids would love to see them more, without it turning into a fight.
We also play a voicemail from a listener with nearly 700 skydiving jumps under her belt, trying to convince us to finally give it a shot.
A heads-up: this episode touches on abuse, addiction, and suicide threats. If any of this hits close to home, please take care while listening.
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Call and leave a voicemail: 877-207-2077
Email: heythere@feelingthingspodcast.com
HOSTS:
Amy Brown // RadioAmy.com // @RadioAmy
Kat Van Buren // threecordstherapy.com // @KatVanburen
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
While we hope Couch Talks can be a tool that
helps them supports wherever you are in life. Couch Talks
does not serve as a replacement or substitute for therapy
or any mental health services.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
To good all right, break it down. If you ever
have feelings that you just won't home, Amy and Cat gotcha,
Cob and like a brother, the ladies and folks, we
just follow an the spirit where it's out of the
front and real stuff to the chill stuff and them
but swaying. Sometimes the best thing you can do it
(00:33):
just stop you feel. This is Feeling Things with Amy
and Cat.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Happy Thursday.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Welcome to Couch Talks, our Q and a episode to
the Feeling Things podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I'm Amy and I'm Cat and We're going.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
To start off with a pretty powerful email and I'm
gonna paraphrase it because it was incredibly long and we'll
just get right into it and the topic is not
light there. She even gave us a trigger warning. I'll
read that as part of the email. It starts off, Hey,
(01:07):
my name is V. I'm twenty five years old from Virginia.
V from Virginia.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
I love you love an alliteration.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Uh trigger warning This email includes references to abuse, addiction,
and suicide threats. I want to preface this by saying
that you're welcome to read, share, or paraphrase any part
of this email on the podcast at your discretion. So
after that line, we paraphrased uh and condensed everything that
(01:36):
V had to share. So the details that you need
to know to understand her question for us, she was
in a severely abusive relationship, emotional, physical, and psychological. He
was an alcoholic and an addict who cheated, lied, made
suicide threats. He held weapons to his head, forced her
(01:57):
to watch, and at one point he actually fired a
gun into a voicemail to make her think that he
had taken his life. Every time she tried to leave,
he pulled her back in through manipulation, threats or empty promises.
She became pregnant, and he abandoned her during the entire pregnancy.
After she gave birth, he denied being the father, called
her horrible names, and threatened to take their daughter away,
(02:21):
while simultaneously offering to disappear forever for one thousand dollars.
He's never met his daughter. She has since seen on
Facebook that he appears to be happy committed or in
a happy, committed relationship with someone else. She herself has
been in therapy for a year and is starting EMDR
(02:41):
with a new therapist. Her actual questions that she included
in the email, how do you accept that there may
never be justice, accountability, or an apology. How do you
move forward when the person who caused all the harm
appears to have gotten a fresh start while you are
still carrying the consequences. And how do you hold on
(03:01):
to hope for your own future when his apparent happiness
feels like proof that he was rewarded and you were discarded.
So I told you we were starting off heavy and
out of the gate. This isn't even into the deep stuff.
This is just such a reminder to all of us
(03:23):
what you see on Facebook and Instagram isn't real life.
So I think that's one thing you can do for
yourself is maybe not even look at his stuff, but
if you do look at it with a filter of
you even use that he appears to be happy in
another relationship with someone else, you know the torment you
(03:47):
went through with him.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
I don't know a person.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
If that's how they operate in life, their relationship is
probably not happy unless he's done some real work and
he's gotten healing and he's a completely different person, because
they may appear happy.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
But I just doubt that's the case.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, And it's clear he is really good at manipulating,
and he's he's a liar, and he from this email.
I don't know this person, but all of these if
all of these things are true, then he's not going
to snap his fingers and start dating somebody else and
be a completely different person to that person. However he
(04:28):
might want you to think that, like and everybody else
and everybody else. Yeah, And so I as hard as
that is, I feel like it's that's kind of some
of that advice that people let go in one ear
and out the other because you hear it so often,
but you hear it so often.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Because it is so true.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
We talk about this all the time in general, not
even about x's and stuff, but just in general being
careful of the things that you see on Instagram, like
that people are selling or whatever it is that they
might that this is working for them, but we don't
really know that. So this is the same idea, just
at a very higher risk level that yeah, anybody can
(05:09):
put anything. Also Also, you can make a lot of
fake stuff now, like on AI and chat GBT, like
you can.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Wait, do you think his girlfriend's AI?
Speaker 5 (05:21):
It could be? It could be. I mean I haven't
used like the.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Photo stuff that often, but even this last week I
typed in there and was like, can you put curtains
on my window? And it looks like a real photo
and it looks like so oh.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
You know, on Tuesday's episode, I was telling you about
my friend's Hinge profile and we were going through the
fifty men that had sent her a rose or whatever,
and one of them. I thought, oh my gosh, wait
this guy is cute and oh he's a surgeon. I mean,
there was all this stuff and then as we scrolled,
(05:58):
she was like, no, this is AI and I was like, wait,
there's AI people on Hinge. And he gave his instagram
that you could look up to and he looked up
the Instagram, and so much about it seemed so fake.
And remember cry ocat. I think on Riyah that dating
app you have to get invited to.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
I think she got.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Scammed by AI photos or some fake photos and she
thought he was some Italian model and she's like, look
at this guy that's into me I don't even know well,
and she's beautiful, so I thought, okay, yeah, this Italian
model might be under her like I don't know. But
turns out it was total scam situation and it was
through a dating app. And so that's a really good point,
Like what's It's kind of everywhere and we need to
(06:41):
be aware of it in some places like on Instagram
now it needs to be labeled, like if you upload
something AI like, it'll give.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
A tag that says that. But I don't know if Facebook.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Sometimes I feel like you can get away with it,
like I just there's probably loopholes. And I'm not saying
this guy is like made up a AI girlfriend, but
I'm just saying, like you, now is a time where
we have to question things before we believe them, which
I hate that because it feels very cynical, but we
should not just I'm the kind of person who wants
(07:13):
to believe the good and everything, but I've learned time
and time again you can't do that because I end
up hurting my own feelings by doing that. So I
would encourage her to take everything she sees with a
very large grain of salt, and also just let's say
he is in a new relationship and he's happy. Does
(07:33):
that now make you want to be back with him?
Because your relationship doesn't sound like anything that you ever wanted,
and he has hurt you, he doesn't deserve to be
in your life. He probably doesn't deserve to be in
his daughter's life at this point. Like to respect yourself,
we have to create boundaries and not allow people, even
if they've changed, like because we.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
Have been hurt in some way.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Sometimes okay to say like, good for you, I'm so
glad that you are. Don't have to be glad, but like,
good for you that you've created this new life for yourself.
I deserve somebody who would have never done that to me.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
I wonder if it would be helpful for her to
mute his account so that she doesn't have to even
see it.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I've also one of my first thoughts was, like, somebody
could have sent her these photos.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
I don't know. Maybe she's not Facebook.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Friends with him, but if she is, I would highly
recommend cut off any kind of any kind of access
you have to his life and he has to your life,
because he is an to me. This is if all
of this is true and we can't give like actual
advice because we don't know this person. This is a podcast,
but to me, this person is very unsafe, so they
(08:44):
don't need access to any part of your life. And
for your asking like how do I like accept and
move on? A part of that is cutting off this
part of your life. And we've talked recently about how
sometimes we're quick to cut off several relationships. This is
one of those situations that it makes sense, like he
(09:06):
didn't just hurt your feelings one time, he endangered you.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Yeah, and having to deal with the fact that there
may never be justice, accountability or an apology. That's where
radical acceptance comes in. Yeah, you have to look at
the type of person that you're dealing with. You have
started there, or you've been doing therapy for a year,
you're starting AMDR, You're getting the tools that you need
that will help you radically accept that. He's the type
(09:31):
of person you may not get that from.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
And well, I like to think with that is I
get that. I get it because I also would want justice.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Yes, that is like the queen of justice.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
How many times have I well, I've recently talked about
my YELP review, but I oftentimes am like, I'm going
to write a review for this.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
It's not right, and it's not.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
But what I would hope for her is that what
becomes more important about him getting what he deserves is
that you get what you deserve. So what kind of
life are you living?
Speaker 6 (10:10):
Like?
Speaker 1 (10:10):
You're doing the work to heal from this. You one
day will have a relationship that brings you joy and
feel safe and loving, and that is more important. Your
life is more important than what happens.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
To him and the type of life you get to
provide for your daughter. And that's so there's radical acceptance
in there. There's also you doing what you need to
do for your life, which is you're already doing it,
minus the you may need to. However, you're getting access
to his Facebook information, and if friends are sending that
to you, you maybe ask friends like, hey, I don't
(10:45):
I'd rather not know unless it's information that I need
because of my daughter, I probably don't need to know
what's going on with his life and his relationship. That
(11:06):
question was how do I move forward when the person
who caused harm appears?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Who've gotten a.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Fresh start, Well, you're getting a new start too, because
you've gotten him out of your life, So I would
shift perspective on Thank goodness you're out from under that,
because you could still be stuck there. So this is
a fresh start for you, and you've already started with
the tools that you have, and then you get to
move and from your path and what is now possible
(11:33):
from this? How do you get to come alongside and
support other people that have gone through something similar.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
It may not be right.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Away, but then that's one of the ways we get
to use our pain to help others.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
Do you did you see that interview? I wish I
knew who it was with.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I want to say, with Stephen Colbert and somebody else,
but it could be wrong, but it was asking, like
one of them, how do you deal with like the
hardest parts of your life and these things that you've
been through.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
Is this ringing a bell to you?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yep?
Speaker 5 (12:05):
Okay? Well his response was this will make me cry. God,
I've been doing so good.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
His response was, Kat's seven and a half months pregnant.
By the way, in case you're having to be tuning
in for the very first time, not all of our
emails are this heavy.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Yeah, but Kat does cry a lot.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
He's I'm paraphrasing, he said it much more eloquently, but
it just felt so good and it's so true, he said.
I have a lot of gratitude for the things that
have hurt me in my life, not because I'm happy
that they have happened, but because that is what connects
us to other human beings. Being able to relate to
somebody else and be able to hear somebody else's story
(12:49):
and have compassion for them and be able to help
them through something.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Those are the most meaningful parts of relationships.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yes, it's fun to go to party and go on
vacations and do all this stuff, but the most meaningful
parts of life are when you're going through something and
I can be there for you and I can understand you.
So that's how I have gratitude for and can accept
that these things have happened to me, is because I
have to believe that they are there to bring me
(13:20):
closer to other people and connect me to people.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
I did a pretty good getting through that, actually I did.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
So there's that I wish I had that video because
then I would send that to this person that it
was as that was really helpful to hear.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
But I think all that's true.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Yeah, And I think that if you're wondering how to
hold on to hope, like to me, I have to
cling to hope at times when it doesn't I even
tattooed it on my arm whenever I was in the
process of adoption like my husband and I at the
time it took us five years to get our kids
(13:58):
from Haiti and a spaw me hope and Haitian creole,
and I tattooed a spot on my wrist so that
every day I would look at it and I was
reminded to keep the faith and to have hope. And
you may need to just have little reminders for yourself.
Doesn't mean it has to be a tattoo. But my
story wasn't working out the way I thought, but I
(14:21):
had to surrender my dream of getting pregnant and having babies.
That storyline shifted completely, and becoming a mom happened in
a way that I never would have imagined for myself
at all whatsoever. Not only did we end up not
ever having a baby, then we were going to adopt
a baby, and we didn't even adopt a baby. We
(14:43):
adopted two older children, so everything looked different, like I
never got to change diapers or wake up in the
middle of the night because they're crying and hold them.
And like, there's a lot of things that I was
looking forward to when it came to becoming a mom
that I.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Had to.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
You know, I had hope for that too, And then
my period would come, and every time that would be
the vicious cycle of crying and then starting that. But
then this my story shifted, and your story is shifting.
Like this is a completely different chapter that you now
get to write for yourself, and thank goodness, he's not
a part of it.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
M H.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
So have a little way for you to remember that
hope is there. You're doing the work and these are
going to be some beautiful chapters with you and your daughter.
And I'm so sorry that you went through this with
this guy who seems very unwell.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
Yeah, to put it lightly.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
To put it lightly, all right, Next email, this is
from Oh it's supposed to be anonymous.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yep, literally in bold.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Keep this anonymous, please, so but we can say they're well,
I don't even know if we should say where they're
from now.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Dang, they're from America.
Speaker 5 (15:56):
Which we do need to clarify because we're international.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Yes, we do have listeners in Canada and.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
It was so from Africa somewhere.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Yeah, yeah, oh Nigeria, Nigeria, I think, yeah, Nigeria.
Speaker 5 (16:13):
I feel like we had an Australian.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
I'm sure we did.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
I love somebody vacationing in Australia.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
We need to pull up that map again that gives
us the percentages of like who's listening where, so just
know this person's in America.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Hey, Amy and Kat.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
I'm processing some big feelings regarding my parents and reaching
out to get some advice on this situation. I'm thirty
five years old, happily married to children. My parents are
in their mid sixties, and I believe they both have
a gambling addiction. First, I love my parents dearly. They
own a business and they are very blessed financially. And
while I do not know the details of their gambling
(16:58):
wins and losses, I definitely only hear about the winds
and perks of being their elite status of the casino lol.
But I do have serious concerns of how gambling affects
their mentical and physical health, along with fears of what
this hobby slash addiction could be doing to them financially.
My parents are the most excited and happiest when they
(17:20):
are at the casino or talking about their recent trip
to the casino. Outside of those times, they are fairly
negative people. Gambling brings them the most joy in life.
I have my two children their only grandchildren, and they
enjoy spending time with them that they rarely come to
visit or ask about their grandchildren unless I reach out
for context. I live two hours from them, and the
(17:43):
casino is an hour forty five from them the other direction.
It makes me incredibly sad that my parents will randomly
drive to the casino on a weeknight or spend every
other week in there, when I've mentioned that their grandchildren
would like to see them and would appreciate help occasionally
during the week if their schedule would allow. Am I
(18:03):
being too critical of the thing that brings them the
most joy? How can I address this with them? How
do you truly know that a gambling hobby might just
that it's just a hobby, or it could actually be
an addiction. Thank you for any and all advice. Have
the day you need to have your friend Anonymous from America.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Which I had that thought because you clarified it is
I wonder if there have to be casinos in other countries, right, yeah, okay,
I just had that thought. You know how some states
it's illegal. In some states it's legal that, Like, I
didn't know if other countries. I'm sure some countries are
around want.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
To do it at all.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, So clearly that's not the country that this person
would be emily from.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
Okay, I have some thoughts. Do you have some thoughts?
Can I just jump in.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Jump in therapists?
Speaker 1 (18:52):
So there's some main questions you want to us to address,
And one of them was, am I being too critical?
Speaker 5 (19:00):
Thing that brings them the most joy? I don't hear.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I love the introspection of am I being too hard
on them? I don't hear you being critical. I hear
a lot of sadness and fear, which to me isn't
being a critic. It's just having emotions towards what you're seeing.
So we can't diagnose somebody. I was gonna say, we
(19:26):
can't diagnose somebody having an addiction without you know, having
them kind of be part of the process. However, that's
not true because we can see behaviors, but you're not
seeing all of your parents' behaviors exactly, So we can't.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
And yeah, we're definitely not.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
So I think you're not going to be able to
see if this is truly an addiction for them because
you don't have you're not privy to all of the information.
I think gambling addictions can be more insidious because you
can hide to an extent some of the repercussions versus
if you're.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
An alcoholic or you're a drug addict or something like that.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
You're oftentimes you're out in public and those things are
being shown more often and the consequences can be seen
to other people.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Bloodshot eyes, slurring words right, like, without access to their
bank account and seeing yeah, and however time they're actually
sending there.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
But I guess true, it doesn't matter if they're in debt.
It can still be an addiction.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
Yeah, that's what I was going to say. They could
be doing really great and they're still addicted to it.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
So what I would encourage you to do is not
so much focus on are my parents' gambling addicts? Because
that is going You're not going to really be able
to figure that out. And I don't know if that's
the most important thing in this moment. It's that you
have a lot of feelings about what their hobby feels like.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
It's taking from you and your family.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
And so could you have a conversation with them about
literally what you said in this email.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
I think it was really well written.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
It makes me incredibly sad that my parents will drive
to this casino on a weeknight and spend every other
weekend there when I've mentioned that their grandchildren and daughter.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
Would like to see them.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
What would happen if you said that to them, Like,
I feel really sad because I see you doing all
this and you talk about going to the casino, and
I'm so happy that you found you have this hobby
that brings you joy, and I feel hurt when you
choose that over us. And so is there a way
to spend more time together or is there something going
(21:31):
on that I don't know about? And then what you
do after that is out of your control, Like what
happens after that is after out of your control. But
I would highly highly recommend sharing those feelings, not the
accusatory ones, which I don't. I think again, this was
very well written. I don't hear her being like my
(21:52):
parents are terrible and they're this and they're running in
their life. This is genuine concern and genuine feelings that
I would be. I think it's fair to share with them.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
I think it's just where the intentional dialogue script could
come into play. So I don't know if you've heard
us mentioned that script in the past, but.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
It's a fill in the blank. So you say when you.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
So I'll do it, say when blank? Okay, okay, because
you want to try to not use well, that's.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
In our script, that right it is?
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Did you take that when I wrote that? Okay, Well,
let's edit that.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I would just because when you if you start it, especially.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Say you you language, because then people get on the defense.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
So I agree with that, but that's been sometimes you
can't avoid it.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
So okay, when.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
You feel it out, okay, when you could fill in
what she could kind of say, like I'll say that.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
You could give her a script.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Oh so you want me to fill it in.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
I'll say you fill it in. I'm going to say
the first part and then you fill it in. Okay,
So be like a little activity.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Okay, when.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
I request that you spend more time with us, and
it doesn't happen because.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
You're at the casino. From what I can see, I
feel hurt and sad.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
The story I tell myself is it's the casino is
more important to you and you have you get more
joy from gambling than you do from.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
Our family, And what I need is more time with you.
And it doesn't have to be that if exactly that
that was just.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Like an example.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
Yeah, I love a good script, though if I or her,
i'd be like writing that dog, I'd be like, okay.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
But I would pick the stuff that feels the most big, authentic.
And also my other feedback for using that script is
keep it as short as possible because as soon as
you start, even though this is a very non threatening script,
as soon as somebody feels that confrontation and this is
a form of confrontation, they automatically will start getting defensive,
(24:14):
and so you want to make it as short as
possible so they can stay in it with you versus
you know, when we start feeling somebody is like coming
at us, we're already thinking about how we want to respond.
So at the end of this too, if you're having
trouble hearing each other. And this is for this listener,
this is for anybody. I like when people then repeat
(24:37):
it back. What I heard you say is this, And
then they'll repeat what you said and they'll say did
I get it right? And maybe they got it right
and you're like yes, okay, and they'll say is there
anything else? And you can say no, or did I
get it right? No, I didn't say that, because they
might say, what I heard you say is you think
that I'm an addict and you want me to go
(24:59):
to rehab. It's like, well, I didn't say that at all,
but that might be what they heard because they immediately
felt a little defensive.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
So the repeating is really helpful.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Very it's a good one.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
What if the grandparents are like, we lived life like
we raised our children, we did we worked for however
long now we're retired and living our best life, like
going the casino, and it's great.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
You're saying, what if that was their response?
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah, well, I think that would not be addressing the
sadness of I want to see you more. And that's
why I think it's helpful to not focus on their actions.
Well they're perceived addiction versus how this affects our family,
how is this affecting me?
Speaker 5 (25:47):
Versus you? You you you you.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Because then they could assess like, oh, okay, wow, we've
been waiting our whole lives to just gamble and have
fun together, and wow, we didn't realize with that we've
been neglecting our daughter and grandchildren. So then they can
assess how to prioritize their time.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
And the hope is that they're like, oh my gosh,
we didn't realize that that was so important to you.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
That's the hope.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
But if they don't respond, well, that's where you have
to sit with some of those uncomfortable feelings and we
can't control people, which sucks.
Speaker 5 (26:22):
Sure does.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Okay, we have a voicemail. This is I don't think
it's anonymous, no, because.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
She's just encouraging us to skydive, because she's got like
seven hundred jumps under her belt, which I've forgotten. We
talked about skydiving the other day, which is why she
even called in with this message of encouragement for us.
She's Maria and Plano, Texas, by the way, But I
have a cousin who's an avid skydiver, has hundreds and
hundreds of jumps, and I was thinking I could call
(27:03):
him and we could go.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
We aren't doing anything did you see.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
The dad that was para gliding with his child, And
some people were calling it child abuse because the child's
like five, and it's like can a kid decide if
they want to go? But the kid was having a blast,
Like the kid was.
Speaker 5 (27:22):
The beach.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
I mean, that's paras sailing, Okay, it's more think of
like if you were to go skydiving. You're jumping out
and when you're once, you pull the parachute and you're floating.
It's sort of paragliding is like you've got this big shoot,
but you may jump off of a bridge, you may
jump off somewhere, and then you're gliding like I don't
I don't think you're you exit from a plane.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
I don't know, but it looks sort of similar.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
But I'm just saying it was a viral clip, so
I was going to ask you about it because he'd
obviously been taking her since before she was five. But
she was really sweet in the video, and she was
even holding and like trying to steer a little bit
and she's like, okay, I'm tied or whatever. But people
were very divided on if that was a cute father
daughter moment or if that is child abuse?
Speaker 5 (28:08):
What do you think.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I thought it was fine because he's not gonna put
his daughter in harm's way. But I guess that activity
in itself is dangerous. Yeah, but he's clearly a professional.
So it's like to me, I thought it was a
precious moment. I would not scream child abuse. But Eddie
and Lunchbox on the Bobby Bone Show, they both said
child abuse.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I don't know that it is necessarily child abuse, but
it does ring alarm for me, Like I wouldn't feel
comfortable doing that, but I also wouldn't feel comfortable pair gliding.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
Now the child was skydiving. To me, that feels different.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Those feel the same to me, Like.
Speaker 5 (28:50):
If you see the video, I guess I don't really
understand what pearagliding is.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Well, just imagine you're falling from the sky in a parachute.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
But you're can we look at the law on this,
because I would.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
If it was child abuse, I would be like, that
makes sense, But if it wasn't, I also would be like, Okay,
I can see why that also makes sense, but I
don't like it.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
Okay, I do not like it.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Yeah, I don't want my adult child to do this,
So I'm definitely not taking my five year old.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
To do it.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
Yeah, but I guess if it's something that you love doing,
like the voicemail abrout to play, she's got seven hundred jumps,
Like if she has a baby and she feels safe
doing it.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Yeah, I wonder what the law is.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
You cannot take a baby sky diving. There's no way. Yeah,
that feels like a liability. Uh huh.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
When I did it, that was the scariest part for
me was right when I jumped. Sorry, how my computer
volume up? Because we're gonna play the voicemail. But the
when I jumped, the scariest part for me was up
at the top where it's really cold and you're kind
of grasping for air a little bit. But then once
you pull the shoot, it's like, oh and it's really
(29:58):
everything relaxes and you like see the city and everything
around you, and.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
It's like it's really cool.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
You wouldn't do it again.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
No, I don't want to do it again exactly, But
Mariah here would like to convince us, So let's go
ahead and play her voicemail.
Speaker 6 (30:15):
Hi. This is Mariah in Plano, Texas. I am forty
years old and I'm feeling a little bit bummed that
Kat doesn't want to go skydiving, and Amy they you
wouldn't do it again. I am a skydiver.
Speaker 7 (30:34):
I have almost seven hundred jumps. My husband has almost
eleven hundred jumps. And we have jumped in Egypt, France.
We're going to Iceland in about two weeks to skydive
during the eclipse. We've jumped in Bali. We actually wing
suit and it's just it's so fun and just as experience,
(31:01):
and it's like there's a lot of safety protocols in place,
and it's not in I mean, yeah, it's dangerous to
some extent, but as Amy said, like you get in
a car every day and that's incredibly dangerous. But I
(31:22):
think it's something that everybody should try, at least once
you get a whole different perspective of life and the world.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
And it's just, I.
Speaker 7 (31:33):
Don't know, it kind of bumms me out that you
wouldn't give it at least a consideration.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
So I don't know.
Speaker 7 (31:41):
I just thought i'd call and share my feelings on that. Anyways,
love you guys, and have the day you need to have.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
She's genuinely really sad that this is like her passion
and the fact that you don't even want to.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Try it or that I don't want to do it again.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
He's so that's good. She expressed her feelings on it,
which we appreciate. That's what this podcast is all about.
It is about feelings. And I think that is so
cool that she's jumped all those different places. After she
said how many jumps her husband has, I'm like, she's
from Texas. I'm like, I wonder if she's married to
my cousin that like, but that would be funny. But
(32:20):
I feel like he has a ton of jumps like that.
This is a cousin on my dad's side where my
dad was the youngest of seven kids, and then I
was his youngest. My dad had me when he was
really old, so all of my cousins on his side
are way older than me.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
What is really old to you? How old was your dad?
Speaker 3 (32:39):
I mean my dad? Okay, well, I say really old
when he had me, but he was late forties. Oh yeah, I.
Speaker 5 (32:45):
Thought you were going to say, like, no, thirty eight,
and I'm like, no, he had.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Me on his third marriage.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
Why don't know how fast his divorces came about? Well, Okay,
that's the.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Older Yeah, and then I'm the last of his four kids,
and then he was the last. I'm just saying all
of his siblings that had kids, So I don't really
know my cousins. That's well, that's why I don't on
his side. So that's why I don't know his wife,
Like they're from Texas and he jumps a lot, or
maybe she maybe knows him. But first of all, Mariah, Mariah,
(33:19):
thank you for sharing your experience. I love that and
your husband have found something that I'll enjoy doing together
and that you are traveling the world doing it and
they're about to go.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Would she say she's going to do it during the eclipse.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
Eclipse that's gonna be rightand.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Iceland that's gonna be so sick.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
Yeah, but I'll go to Iceland and not skydive.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Well, what's crazy is when you have your baby, you're
gonna put it in a car, but.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
You won't like child abuse her.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
You're gonna put that baby on the highway.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
In a really safe car seat. Again, I will say
that I said this last time. Don't give me those
dies kidding. I feel skydiving would be an elective activity
I have to get in a car to function in
my everyday life.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
That's what the difference is.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
I do recognize that I'm more likely to get hurt
in a car wreck than if I go skydiving once.
But the difference is I have to do one the other.
I'm just choosing to be a little you know, crazy,
and I'm not somebody which I'm okay that other people
are not this way. Actually, you know what I really do?
(34:39):
What is it called when I admire?
Speaker 3 (34:44):
What is it called when you look up to someone
know what they're doing and you think it's cool.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I admire when other people can have more risk taking
in their lives. I am risk averse when it comes
to safety, and I have a little bit of that.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Like when I ride a jet ski.
Speaker 5 (35:03):
Oh, I got like so slow.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
If like I'm riding a jet ski with someone and
they try to like take off and like return, like
I'm like freaking out and I'm like, get me off
of this.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
So if I'm the one driving, I'm.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Like like going down the lake like barely with my
my hair is not even flowing because I like don't
want to drive the jet ski fast water water sports
freak me out.
Speaker 5 (35:27):
Well, so little behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
My husband is here helping us with video, and he
also does not like jet skis. It's hard, he said,
Not because.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Yeah, he says they're they're hard to drive.
Speaker 5 (35:54):
He said, not because I think the dangerous because they're
hard to drive. But we The last time I was
on a jet ski was with him. It was probably
three years ago. We went out for maybe five minutes
and I.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Was like, take me back, we're gonna capsize.
Speaker 5 (36:07):
I haven't been on one set.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Yeah, i'd say, I'm not.
Speaker 5 (36:12):
Really, that's the risk you see.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
I know your risk verse which risk averse, risk averse,
that's me.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
That's me.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Yeah, start labeling myself as.
Speaker 5 (36:21):
That which I yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Again, I admire that other people are not that way.
This is I feel okay with it.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
But thank you for calling and sharing your experience because
I know that somebody listening is motivated and will.
Speaker 5 (36:36):
Go skydive and don't let me keep it from doing.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
That's why I'm glad that I've checked that box. I
don't know what got into me and made me actually
do it. I know that it was my thirtieth birthday
lunchbox went to and a friend.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
I just I guess I just decided I was going
to do it, and I did it, and now I'm
good with that.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
I don't have any other thing like wild adventure things
on my life except for I do want to go
to that hotel in Kenya where the giraffes come up
to the window and you can feed them breakfast.
Speaker 5 (37:09):
I don't think that is risky.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
That's an adventure though, Oh yeah, yeah, that's can be adventurous.
Yeah I don't.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
That's what I'm saying, like I don't have because I
was going to say I don't have anything adventuress on
my list, but that's when I corrected myself, because that's
adventures I want to go. But then I'm like, well,
I've already gone to Kenya before and I've gone on
a safari, so on one of my travel trips, would
I waste going back to Kenya again.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
You can't go to Kenya until you go to Paris,
I know.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
So you can tell my adventuress in Paris if you
know where I might go on my next vacation is
to see I don't.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
I don't think I have enough time for that.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
Okay, for booking it, I get it, but I can
still plan that but my cousin moved to Ecuador, so
I might go see her in Ecuador.
Speaker 5 (37:54):
That would be fun, you could. I'm sure she'll do
something adventurous with you.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
Yeah, like I know that we'll go hike.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
And I've seen a ziplining. That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Oh, my sister had a little zipline in her backyard.
Speaker 5 (38:07):
I think ziplining. No, I didn't.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
I didn't do like you're probably talking in, like like
a jungle zipline.
Speaker 5 (38:15):
Yeah, I haven't done that. That's scary.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
I went diplining at an adventure place in Dixon, Tennessee.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yeah I did. I jumped on my sister's trampoline a
couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 5 (38:27):
Okay, at our age is kind of adventuress.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
I know.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
I was thinking about how I haven't need to go
to the capactor after ended up having to get knee surgery.
A mom friend of mine, she also adopted from Haiti.
She was jumping on a trampoline once. Her husband is
really well known, so the story is kind of funny.
She's like, I was like, what happened to your knee?
And she's like, I was jumping on a trampoline with
Lady Gaga and I popped my knee and was like
(38:54):
what what? So then yeah, they had to go to
the hospital. It was a whole thing. She was like
out on the trampline like three seconds later. I was
down for the count and I was like, oh what
just like funny some people's lives, like what happened to
your knee?
Speaker 5 (39:09):
Well me and Lady g.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
I was like, what are you doing with?
Speaker 5 (39:13):
Lady Gaga was just hanging out.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
I have no idea, I don't I think maybe wherever
her favorite friends have friends that were somewhere and they
had trampoline and somehow she ended up on the trampling
with Lady Gaga.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
Yeah, okay, Well.
Speaker 5 (39:27):
Just so you know, we are kind of crazy. We
do stuff like that. Wild you want a skydive, we
support you. Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Thank you for your emails and your voicemails. We always
love them.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
You can email us hey, they're at Feeling Things podcasts
dot com. No matter how serious, big, we can keep
you anonymous. We can give every detail like whatever you.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Will allow, we will try to honor and respect whatever
you would like for us to put out there. And
you can also call us eight seven seven two O
seven two O seven seven. Most importantly, we hope, wherever
you are, you have the day you need to have.
Bye Bye,
While we hope Couch Talks can be a tool that
helps them supports wherever you are in life. Couch Talks
does not serve as a replacement or substitute for therapy
or any mental health services.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
To good all right, break it down. If you ever
have feelings that you just won't home, Amy and Cat gotcha,
Cob and like a brother, the ladies and folks, we
just follow an the spirit where it's out of the
front and real stuff to the chill stuff and them
but swaying. Sometimes the best thing you can do it
(00:33):
just stop you feel. This is Feeling Things with Amy
and Cat.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Happy Thursday.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Welcome to Couch Talks, our Q and a episode to
the Feeling Things podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I'm Amy and I'm Cat and We're going.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
To start off with a pretty powerful email and I'm
gonna paraphrase it because it was incredibly long and we'll
just get right into it and the topic is not
light there. She even gave us a trigger warning. I'll
read that as part of the email. It starts off, Hey,
(01:07):
my name is V. I'm twenty five years old from Virginia.
V from Virginia.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
I love you love an alliteration.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Uh trigger warning This email includes references to abuse, addiction,
and suicide threats. I want to preface this by saying
that you're welcome to read, share, or paraphrase any part
of this email on the podcast at your discretion. So
after that line, we paraphrased uh and condensed everything that
(01:36):
V had to share. So the details that you need
to know to understand her question for us, she was
in a severely abusive relationship, emotional, physical, and psychological. He
was an alcoholic and an addict who cheated, lied, made
suicide threats. He held weapons to his head, forced her
(01:57):
to watch, and at one point he actually fired a
gun into a voicemail to make her think that he
had taken his life. Every time she tried to leave,
he pulled her back in through manipulation, threats or empty promises.
She became pregnant, and he abandoned her during the entire pregnancy.
After she gave birth, he denied being the father, called
her horrible names, and threatened to take their daughter away,
(02:21):
while simultaneously offering to disappear forever for one thousand dollars.
He's never met his daughter. She has since seen on
Facebook that he appears to be happy committed or in
a happy, committed relationship with someone else. She herself has
been in therapy for a year and is starting EMDR
(02:41):
with a new therapist. Her actual questions that she included
in the email, how do you accept that there may
never be justice, accountability, or an apology. How do you
move forward when the person who caused all the harm
appears to have gotten a fresh start while you are
still carrying the consequences. And how do you hold on
(03:01):
to hope for your own future when his apparent happiness
feels like proof that he was rewarded and you were discarded.
So I told you we were starting off heavy and
out of the gate. This isn't even into the deep stuff.
This is just such a reminder to all of us
(03:23):
what you see on Facebook and Instagram isn't real life.
So I think that's one thing you can do for
yourself is maybe not even look at his stuff, but
if you do look at it with a filter of
you even use that he appears to be happy in
another relationship with someone else, you know the torment you
(03:47):
went through with him.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
I don't know a person.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
If that's how they operate in life, their relationship is
probably not happy unless he's done some real work and
he's gotten healing and he's a completely different person, because
they may appear happy.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
But I just doubt that's the case.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, And it's clear he is really good at manipulating,
and he's he's a liar, and he from this email.
I don't know this person, but all of these if
all of these things are true, then he's not going
to snap his fingers and start dating somebody else and
be a completely different person to that person. However he
(04:28):
might want you to think that, like and everybody else
and everybody else. Yeah, And so I as hard as
that is, I feel like it's that's kind of some
of that advice that people let go in one ear
and out the other because you hear it so often,
but you hear it so often.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Because it is so true.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
We talk about this all the time in general, not
even about x's and stuff, but just in general being
careful of the things that you see on Instagram, like
that people are selling or whatever it is that they
might that this is working for them, but we don't
really know that. So this is the same idea, just
at a very higher risk level that yeah, anybody can
(05:09):
put anything. Also Also, you can make a lot of
fake stuff now, like on AI and chat GBT, like
you can.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Wait, do you think his girlfriend's AI?
Speaker 5 (05:21):
It could be? It could be. I mean I haven't
used like the.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Photo stuff that often, but even this last week I
typed in there and was like, can you put curtains
on my window? And it looks like a real photo
and it looks like so oh.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
You know, on Tuesday's episode, I was telling you about
my friend's Hinge profile and we were going through the
fifty men that had sent her a rose or whatever,
and one of them. I thought, oh my gosh, wait
this guy is cute and oh he's a surgeon. I mean,
there was all this stuff and then as we scrolled,
(05:58):
she was like, no, this is AI and I was like, wait,
there's AI people on Hinge. And he gave his instagram
that you could look up to and he looked up
the Instagram, and so much about it seemed so fake.
And remember cry ocat. I think on Riyah that dating
app you have to get invited to.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
I think she got.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Scammed by AI photos or some fake photos and she
thought he was some Italian model and she's like, look
at this guy that's into me I don't even know well,
and she's beautiful, so I thought, okay, yeah, this Italian
model might be under her like I don't know. But
turns out it was total scam situation and it was
through a dating app. And so that's a really good point,
Like what's It's kind of everywhere and we need to
(06:41):
be aware of it in some places like on Instagram
now it needs to be labeled, like if you upload
something AI like, it'll give.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
A tag that says that. But I don't know if Facebook.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Sometimes I feel like you can get away with it,
like I just there's probably loopholes. And I'm not saying
this guy is like made up a AI girlfriend, but
I'm just saying, like you, now is a time where
we have to question things before we believe them, which
I hate that because it feels very cynical, but we
should not just I'm the kind of person who wants
(07:13):
to believe the good and everything, but I've learned time
and time again you can't do that because I end
up hurting my own feelings by doing that. So I
would encourage her to take everything she sees with a
very large grain of salt, and also just let's say
he is in a new relationship and he's happy. Does
(07:33):
that now make you want to be back with him?
Because your relationship doesn't sound like anything that you ever wanted,
and he has hurt you, he doesn't deserve to be
in your life. He probably doesn't deserve to be in
his daughter's life at this point. Like to respect yourself,
we have to create boundaries and not allow people, even
if they've changed, like because we.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
Have been hurt in some way.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Sometimes okay to say like, good for you, I'm so
glad that you are. Don't have to be glad, but like,
good for you that you've created this new life for yourself.
I deserve somebody who would have never done that to me.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
I wonder if it would be helpful for her to
mute his account so that she doesn't have to even
see it.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I've also one of my first thoughts was, like, somebody
could have sent her these photos.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
I don't know. Maybe she's not Facebook.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Friends with him, but if she is, I would highly
recommend cut off any kind of any kind of access
you have to his life and he has to your life,
because he is an to me. This is if all
of this is true and we can't give like actual
advice because we don't know this person. This is a podcast,
but to me, this person is very unsafe, so they
(08:44):
don't need access to any part of your life. And
for your asking like how do I like accept and
move on? A part of that is cutting off this
part of your life. And we've talked recently about how
sometimes we're quick to cut off several relationships. This is
one of those situations that it makes sense, like he
(09:06):
didn't just hurt your feelings one time, he endangered you.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Yeah, and having to deal with the fact that there
may never be justice, accountability or an apology. That's where
radical acceptance comes in. Yeah, you have to look at
the type of person that you're dealing with. You have
started there, or you've been doing therapy for a year,
you're starting AMDR, You're getting the tools that you need
that will help you radically accept that. He's the type
(09:31):
of person you may not get that from.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
And well, I like to think with that is I
get that. I get it because I also would want justice.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Yes, that is like the queen of justice.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
How many times have I well, I've recently talked about
my YELP review, but I oftentimes am like, I'm going
to write a review for this.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
It's not right, and it's not.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
But what I would hope for her is that what
becomes more important about him getting what he deserves is
that you get what you deserve. So what kind of
life are you living?
Speaker 6 (10:10):
Like?
Speaker 1 (10:10):
You're doing the work to heal from this. You one
day will have a relationship that brings you joy and
feel safe and loving, and that is more important. Your
life is more important than what happens.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
To him and the type of life you get to
provide for your daughter. And that's so there's radical acceptance
in there. There's also you doing what you need to
do for your life, which is you're already doing it,
minus the you may need to. However, you're getting access
to his Facebook information, and if friends are sending that
to you, you maybe ask friends like, hey, I don't
(10:45):
I'd rather not know unless it's information that I need
because of my daughter, I probably don't need to know
what's going on with his life and his relationship. That
(11:06):
question was how do I move forward when the person
who caused harm appears?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Who've gotten a.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Fresh start, Well, you're getting a new start too, because
you've gotten him out of your life, So I would
shift perspective on Thank goodness you're out from under that,
because you could still be stuck there. So this is
a fresh start for you, and you've already started with
the tools that you have, and then you get to
move and from your path and what is now possible
(11:33):
from this? How do you get to come alongside and
support other people that have gone through something similar.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
It may not be right.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Away, but then that's one of the ways we get
to use our pain to help others.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
Do you did you see that interview? I wish I
knew who it was with.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I want to say, with Stephen Colbert and somebody else,
but it could be wrong, but it was asking, like
one of them, how do you deal with like the
hardest parts of your life and these things that you've
been through.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
Is this ringing a bell to you?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yep?
Speaker 5 (12:05):
Okay? Well his response was this will make me cry. God,
I've been doing so good.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
His response was, Kat's seven and a half months pregnant.
By the way, in case you're having to be tuning
in for the very first time, not all of our
emails are this heavy.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Yeah, but Kat does cry a lot.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
He's I'm paraphrasing, he said it much more eloquently, but
it just felt so good and it's so true, he said.
I have a lot of gratitude for the things that
have hurt me in my life, not because I'm happy
that they have happened, but because that is what connects
us to other human beings. Being able to relate to
somebody else and be able to hear somebody else's story
(12:49):
and have compassion for them and be able to help
them through something.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Those are the most meaningful parts of relationships.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yes, it's fun to go to party and go on
vacations and do all this stuff, but the most meaningful
parts of life are when you're going through something and
I can be there for you and I can understand you.
So that's how I have gratitude for and can accept
that these things have happened to me, is because I
have to believe that they are there to bring me
(13:20):
closer to other people and connect me to people.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
I did a pretty good getting through that, actually I did.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
So there's that I wish I had that video because
then I would send that to this person that it
was as that was really helpful to hear.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
But I think all that's true.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Yeah, And I think that if you're wondering how to
hold on to hope, like to me, I have to
cling to hope at times when it doesn't I even
tattooed it on my arm whenever I was in the
process of adoption like my husband and I at the
time it took us five years to get our kids
(13:58):
from Haiti and a spaw me hope and Haitian creole,
and I tattooed a spot on my wrist so that
every day I would look at it and I was
reminded to keep the faith and to have hope. And
you may need to just have little reminders for yourself.
Doesn't mean it has to be a tattoo. But my
story wasn't working out the way I thought, but I
(14:21):
had to surrender my dream of getting pregnant and having babies.
That storyline shifted completely, and becoming a mom happened in
a way that I never would have imagined for myself
at all whatsoever. Not only did we end up not
ever having a baby, then we were going to adopt
a baby, and we didn't even adopt a baby. We
(14:43):
adopted two older children, so everything looked different, like I
never got to change diapers or wake up in the
middle of the night because they're crying and hold them.
And like, there's a lot of things that I was
looking forward to when it came to becoming a mom
that I.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Had to.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
You know, I had hope for that too, And then
my period would come, and every time that would be
the vicious cycle of crying and then starting that. But
then this my story shifted, and your story is shifting.
Like this is a completely different chapter that you now
get to write for yourself, and thank goodness, he's not
a part of it.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
M H.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
So have a little way for you to remember that
hope is there. You're doing the work and these are
going to be some beautiful chapters with you and your daughter.
And I'm so sorry that you went through this with
this guy who seems very unwell.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
Yeah, to put it lightly.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
To put it lightly, all right, Next email, this is
from Oh it's supposed to be anonymous.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yep, literally in bold.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Keep this anonymous, please, so but we can say they're well,
I don't even know if we should say where they're
from now.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Dang, they're from America.
Speaker 5 (15:56):
Which we do need to clarify because we're international.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Yes, we do have listeners in Canada and.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
It was so from Africa somewhere.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Yeah, yeah, oh Nigeria, Nigeria, I think, yeah, Nigeria.
Speaker 5 (16:13):
I feel like we had an Australian.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
I'm sure we did.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
I love somebody vacationing in Australia.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
We need to pull up that map again that gives
us the percentages of like who's listening where, so just
know this person's in America.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Hey, Amy and Kat.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
I'm processing some big feelings regarding my parents and reaching
out to get some advice on this situation. I'm thirty
five years old, happily married to children. My parents are
in their mid sixties, and I believe they both have
a gambling addiction. First, I love my parents dearly. They
own a business and they are very blessed financially. And
while I do not know the details of their gambling
(16:58):
wins and losses, I definitely only hear about the winds
and perks of being their elite status of the casino lol.
But I do have serious concerns of how gambling affects
their mentical and physical health, along with fears of what
this hobby slash addiction could be doing to them financially.
My parents are the most excited and happiest when they
(17:20):
are at the casino or talking about their recent trip
to the casino. Outside of those times, they are fairly
negative people. Gambling brings them the most joy in life.
I have my two children their only grandchildren, and they
enjoy spending time with them that they rarely come to
visit or ask about their grandchildren unless I reach out
for context. I live two hours from them, and the
(17:43):
casino is an hour forty five from them the other direction.
It makes me incredibly sad that my parents will randomly
drive to the casino on a weeknight or spend every
other week in there, when I've mentioned that their grandchildren
would like to see them and would appreciate help occasionally
during the week if their schedule would allow. Am I
(18:03):
being too critical of the thing that brings them the
most joy? How can I address this with them? How
do you truly know that a gambling hobby might just
that it's just a hobby, or it could actually be
an addiction. Thank you for any and all advice. Have
the day you need to have your friend Anonymous from America.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Which I had that thought because you clarified it is
I wonder if there have to be casinos in other countries, right, yeah, okay,
I just had that thought. You know how some states
it's illegal. In some states it's legal that, Like, I
didn't know if other countries. I'm sure some countries are
around want.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
To do it at all.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, So clearly that's not the country that this person
would be emily from.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
Okay, I have some thoughts. Do you have some thoughts?
Can I just jump in.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Jump in therapists?
Speaker 1 (18:52):
So there's some main questions you want to us to address,
And one of them was, am I being too critical?
Speaker 5 (19:00):
Thing that brings them the most joy? I don't hear.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I love the introspection of am I being too hard
on them? I don't hear you being critical. I hear
a lot of sadness and fear, which to me isn't
being a critic. It's just having emotions towards what you're seeing.
So we can't diagnose somebody. I was gonna say, we
(19:26):
can't diagnose somebody having an addiction without you know, having
them kind of be part of the process. However, that's
not true because we can see behaviors, but you're not
seeing all of your parents' behaviors exactly, So we can't.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
And yeah, we're definitely not.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
So I think you're not going to be able to
see if this is truly an addiction for them because
you don't have you're not privy to all of the information.
I think gambling addictions can be more insidious because you
can hide to an extent some of the repercussions versus
if you're.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
An alcoholic or you're a drug addict or something like that.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
You're oftentimes you're out in public and those things are
being shown more often and the consequences can be seen
to other people.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Bloodshot eyes, slurring words right, like, without access to their
bank account and seeing yeah, and however time they're actually
sending there.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
But I guess true, it doesn't matter if they're in debt.
It can still be an addiction.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
Yeah, that's what I was going to say. They could
be doing really great and they're still addicted to it.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
So what I would encourage you to do is not
so much focus on are my parents' gambling addicts? Because
that is going You're not going to really be able
to figure that out. And I don't know if that's
the most important thing in this moment. It's that you
have a lot of feelings about what their hobby feels like.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
It's taking from you and your family.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
And so could you have a conversation with them about
literally what you said in this email.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
I think it was really well written.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
It makes me incredibly sad that my parents will drive
to this casino on a weeknight and spend every other
weekend there when I've mentioned that their grandchildren and daughter.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
Would like to see them.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
What would happen if you said that to them, Like,
I feel really sad because I see you doing all
this and you talk about going to the casino, and
I'm so happy that you found you have this hobby
that brings you joy, and I feel hurt when you
choose that over us. And so is there a way
to spend more time together or is there something going
(21:31):
on that I don't know about? And then what you
do after that is out of your control, Like what
happens after that is after out of your control. But
I would highly highly recommend sharing those feelings, not the
accusatory ones, which I don't. I think again, this was
very well written. I don't hear her being like my
(21:52):
parents are terrible and they're this and they're running in
their life. This is genuine concern and genuine feelings that
I would be. I think it's fair to share with them.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
I think it's just where the intentional dialogue script could
come into play. So I don't know if you've heard
us mentioned that script in the past, but.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
It's a fill in the blank. So you say when you.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
So I'll do it, say when blank? Okay, okay, because
you want to try to not use well, that's.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
In our script, that right it is?
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Did you take that when I wrote that? Okay, Well,
let's edit that.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I would just because when you if you start it, especially.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Say you you language, because then people get on the defense.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
So I agree with that, but that's been sometimes you
can't avoid it.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
So okay, when.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
You feel it out, okay, when you could fill in
what she could kind of say, like I'll say that.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
You could give her a script.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Oh so you want me to fill it in.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
I'll say you fill it in. I'm going to say
the first part and then you fill it in. Okay,
So be like a little activity.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Okay, when.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
I request that you spend more time with us, and
it doesn't happen because.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
You're at the casino. From what I can see, I
feel hurt and sad.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
The story I tell myself is it's the casino is
more important to you and you have you get more
joy from gambling than you do from.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
Our family, And what I need is more time with you.
And it doesn't have to be that if exactly that
that was just.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Like an example.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
Yeah, I love a good script, though if I or her,
i'd be like writing that dog, I'd be like, okay.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
But I would pick the stuff that feels the most big, authentic.
And also my other feedback for using that script is
keep it as short as possible because as soon as
you start, even though this is a very non threatening script,
as soon as somebody feels that confrontation and this is
a form of confrontation, they automatically will start getting defensive,
(24:14):
and so you want to make it as short as
possible so they can stay in it with you versus
you know, when we start feeling somebody is like coming
at us, we're already thinking about how we want to respond.
So at the end of this too, if you're having
trouble hearing each other. And this is for this listener,
this is for anybody. I like when people then repeat
(24:37):
it back. What I heard you say is this, And
then they'll repeat what you said and they'll say did
I get it right? And maybe they got it right
and you're like yes, okay, and they'll say is there
anything else? And you can say no, or did I
get it right? No, I didn't say that, because they
might say, what I heard you say is you think
that I'm an addict and you want me to go
(24:59):
to rehab. It's like, well, I didn't say that at all,
but that might be what they heard because they immediately
felt a little defensive.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
So the repeating is really helpful.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Very it's a good one.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
What if the grandparents are like, we lived life like
we raised our children, we did we worked for however
long now we're retired and living our best life, like
going the casino, and it's great.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
You're saying, what if that was their response?
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah, well, I think that would not be addressing the
sadness of I want to see you more. And that's
why I think it's helpful to not focus on their actions.
Well they're perceived addiction versus how this affects our family,
how is this affecting me?
Speaker 5 (25:47):
Versus you? You you you you.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Because then they could assess like, oh, okay, wow, we've
been waiting our whole lives to just gamble and have
fun together, and wow, we didn't realize with that we've
been neglecting our daughter and grandchildren. So then they can
assess how to prioritize their time.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
And the hope is that they're like, oh my gosh,
we didn't realize that that was so important to you.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
That's the hope.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
But if they don't respond, well, that's where you have
to sit with some of those uncomfortable feelings and we
can't control people, which sucks.
Speaker 5 (26:22):
Sure does.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Okay, we have a voicemail. This is I don't think
it's anonymous, no, because.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
She's just encouraging us to skydive, because she's got like
seven hundred jumps under her belt, which I've forgotten. We
talked about skydiving the other day, which is why she
even called in with this message of encouragement for us.
She's Maria and Plano, Texas, by the way, But I
have a cousin who's an avid skydiver, has hundreds and
hundreds of jumps, and I was thinking I could call
(27:03):
him and we could go.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
We aren't doing anything did you see.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
The dad that was para gliding with his child, And
some people were calling it child abuse because the child's
like five, and it's like can a kid decide if
they want to go? But the kid was having a blast,
Like the kid was.
Speaker 5 (27:22):
The beach.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
I mean, that's paras sailing, Okay, it's more think of
like if you were to go skydiving. You're jumping out
and when you're once, you pull the parachute and you're floating.
It's sort of paragliding is like you've got this big shoot,
but you may jump off of a bridge, you may
jump off somewhere, and then you're gliding like I don't
I don't think you're you exit from a plane.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
I don't know, but it looks sort of similar.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
But I'm just saying it was a viral clip, so
I was going to ask you about it because he'd
obviously been taking her since before she was five. But
she was really sweet in the video, and she was
even holding and like trying to steer a little bit
and she's like, okay, I'm tied or whatever. But people
were very divided on if that was a cute father
daughter moment or if that is child abuse?
Speaker 5 (28:08):
What do you think.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I thought it was fine because he's not gonna put
his daughter in harm's way. But I guess that activity
in itself is dangerous. Yeah, but he's clearly a professional.
So it's like to me, I thought it was a
precious moment. I would not scream child abuse. But Eddie
and Lunchbox on the Bobby Bone Show, they both said
child abuse.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I don't know that it is necessarily child abuse, but
it does ring alarm for me, Like I wouldn't feel
comfortable doing that, but I also wouldn't feel comfortable pair gliding.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
Now the child was skydiving. To me, that feels different.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Those feel the same to me, Like.
Speaker 5 (28:50):
If you see the video, I guess I don't really
understand what pearagliding is.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Well, just imagine you're falling from the sky in a parachute.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
But you're can we look at the law on this,
because I would.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
If it was child abuse, I would be like, that
makes sense, But if it wasn't, I also would be like, Okay,
I can see why that also makes sense, but I
don't like it.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
Okay, I do not like it.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Yeah, I don't want my adult child to do this,
So I'm definitely not taking my five year old.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
To do it.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
Yeah, but I guess if it's something that you love doing,
like the voicemail abrout to play, she's got seven hundred jumps,
Like if she has a baby and she feels safe
doing it.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Yeah, I wonder what the law is.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
You cannot take a baby sky diving. There's no way. Yeah,
that feels like a liability. Uh huh.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
When I did it, that was the scariest part for
me was right when I jumped. Sorry, how my computer
volume up? Because we're gonna play the voicemail. But the
when I jumped, the scariest part for me was up
at the top where it's really cold and you're kind
of grasping for air a little bit. But then once
you pull the shoot, it's like, oh and it's really
(29:58):
everything relaxes and you like see the city and everything
around you, and.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
It's like it's really cool.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
You wouldn't do it again.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
No, I don't want to do it again exactly, But
Mariah here would like to convince us, So let's go
ahead and play her voicemail.
Speaker 6 (30:15):
Hi. This is Mariah in Plano, Texas. I am forty
years old and I'm feeling a little bit bummed that
Kat doesn't want to go skydiving, and Amy they you
wouldn't do it again. I am a skydiver.
Speaker 7 (30:34):
I have almost seven hundred jumps. My husband has almost
eleven hundred jumps. And we have jumped in Egypt, France.
We're going to Iceland in about two weeks to skydive
during the eclipse. We've jumped in Bali. We actually wing
suit and it's just it's so fun and just as experience,
(31:01):
and it's like there's a lot of safety protocols in place,
and it's not in I mean, yeah, it's dangerous to
some extent, but as Amy said, like you get in
a car every day and that's incredibly dangerous. But I
(31:22):
think it's something that everybody should try, at least once
you get a whole different perspective of life and the world.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
And it's just, I.
Speaker 7 (31:33):
Don't know, it kind of bumms me out that you
wouldn't give it at least a consideration.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
So I don't know.
Speaker 7 (31:41):
I just thought i'd call and share my feelings on that. Anyways,
love you guys, and have the day you need to have.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
She's genuinely really sad that this is like her passion
and the fact that you don't even want to.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Try it or that I don't want to do it again.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
He's so that's good. She expressed her feelings on it,
which we appreciate. That's what this podcast is all about.
It is about feelings. And I think that is so
cool that she's jumped all those different places. After she
said how many jumps her husband has, I'm like, she's
from Texas. I'm like, I wonder if she's married to
my cousin that like, but that would be funny. But
(32:20):
I feel like he has a ton of jumps like that.
This is a cousin on my dad's side where my
dad was the youngest of seven kids, and then I
was his youngest. My dad had me when he was
really old, so all of my cousins on his side
are way older than me.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
What is really old to you? How old was your dad?
Speaker 3 (32:39):
I mean my dad? Okay, well, I say really old
when he had me, but he was late forties. Oh yeah, I.
Speaker 5 (32:45):
Thought you were going to say, like, no, thirty eight,
and I'm like, no, he had.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Me on his third marriage.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
Why don't know how fast his divorces came about? Well, Okay,
that's the.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Older Yeah, and then I'm the last of his four kids,
and then he was the last. I'm just saying all
of his siblings that had kids, So I don't really
know my cousins. That's well, that's why I don't on
his side. So that's why I don't know his wife,
Like they're from Texas and he jumps a lot, or
maybe she maybe knows him. But first of all, Mariah, Mariah,
(33:19):
thank you for sharing your experience. I love that and
your husband have found something that I'll enjoy doing together
and that you are traveling the world doing it and
they're about to go.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Would she say she's going to do it during the eclipse.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
Eclipse that's gonna be rightand.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Iceland that's gonna be so sick.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
Yeah, but I'll go to Iceland and not skydive.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Well, what's crazy is when you have your baby, you're
gonna put it in a car, but.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
You won't like child abuse her.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
You're gonna put that baby on the highway.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
In a really safe car seat. Again, I will say
that I said this last time. Don't give me those
dies kidding. I feel skydiving would be an elective activity
I have to get in a car to function in
my everyday life.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
That's what the difference is.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
I do recognize that I'm more likely to get hurt
in a car wreck than if I go skydiving once.
But the difference is I have to do one the other.
I'm just choosing to be a little you know, crazy,
and I'm not somebody which I'm okay that other people
are not this way. Actually, you know what I really do?
(34:39):
What is it called when I admire?
Speaker 3 (34:44):
What is it called when you look up to someone
know what they're doing and you think it's cool.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I admire when other people can have more risk taking
in their lives. I am risk averse when it comes
to safety, and I have a little bit of that.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Like when I ride a jet ski.
Speaker 5 (35:03):
Oh, I got like so slow.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
If like I'm riding a jet ski with someone and
they try to like take off and like return, like
I'm like freaking out and I'm like, get me off
of this.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
So if I'm the one driving, I'm.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Like like going down the lake like barely with my
my hair is not even flowing because I like don't
want to drive the jet ski fast water water sports
freak me out.
Speaker 5 (35:27):
Well, so little behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
My husband is here helping us with video, and he
also does not like jet skis. It's hard, he said,
Not because.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Yeah, he says they're they're hard to drive.
Speaker 5 (35:54):
He said, not because I think the dangerous because they're
hard to drive. But we The last time I was
on a jet ski was with him. It was probably
three years ago. We went out for maybe five minutes
and I.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Was like, take me back, we're gonna capsize.
Speaker 5 (36:07):
I haven't been on one set.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Yeah, i'd say, I'm not.
Speaker 5 (36:12):
Really, that's the risk you see.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
I know your risk verse which risk averse, risk averse,
that's me.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
That's me.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Yeah, start labeling myself as.
Speaker 5 (36:21):
That which I yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Again, I admire that other people are not that way.
This is I feel okay with it.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
But thank you for calling and sharing your experience because
I know that somebody listening is motivated and will.
Speaker 5 (36:36):
Go skydive and don't let me keep it from doing.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
That's why I'm glad that I've checked that box. I
don't know what got into me and made me actually
do it. I know that it was my thirtieth birthday
lunchbox went to and a friend.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
I just I guess I just decided I was going
to do it, and I did it, and now I'm
good with that.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
I don't have any other thing like wild adventure things
on my life except for I do want to go
to that hotel in Kenya where the giraffes come up
to the window and you can feed them breakfast.
Speaker 5 (37:09):
I don't think that is risky.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
That's an adventure though, Oh yeah, yeah, that's can be adventurous.
Yeah I don't.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
That's what I'm saying, like I don't have because I
was going to say I don't have anything adventuress on
my list, but that's when I corrected myself, because that's
adventures I want to go. But then I'm like, well,
I've already gone to Kenya before and I've gone on
a safari, so on one of my travel trips, would
I waste going back to Kenya again.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
You can't go to Kenya until you go to Paris,
I know.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
So you can tell my adventuress in Paris if you
know where I might go on my next vacation is
to see I don't.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
I don't think I have enough time for that.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
Okay, for booking it, I get it, but I can
still plan that but my cousin moved to Ecuador, so
I might go see her in Ecuador.
Speaker 5 (37:54):
That would be fun, you could. I'm sure she'll do
something adventurous with you.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
Yeah, like I know that we'll go hike.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
And I've seen a ziplining. That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Oh, my sister had a little zipline in her backyard.
Speaker 5 (38:07):
I think ziplining. No, I didn't.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
I didn't do like you're probably talking in, like like
a jungle zipline.
Speaker 5 (38:15):
Yeah, I haven't done that. That's scary.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
I went diplining at an adventure place in Dixon, Tennessee.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yeah I did. I jumped on my sister's trampoline a
couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 5 (38:27):
Okay, at our age is kind of adventuress.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
I know.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
I was thinking about how I haven't need to go
to the capactor after ended up having to get knee surgery.
A mom friend of mine, she also adopted from Haiti.
She was jumping on a trampoline once. Her husband is
really well known, so the story is kind of funny.
She's like, I was like, what happened to your knee?
And she's like, I was jumping on a trampoline with
Lady Gaga and I popped my knee and was like
(38:54):
what what? So then yeah, they had to go to
the hospital. It was a whole thing. She was like
out on the trampline like three seconds later. I was
down for the count and I was like, oh what
just like funny some people's lives, like what happened to
your knee?
Speaker 5 (39:09):
Well me and Lady g.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
I was like, what are you doing with?
Speaker 5 (39:13):
Lady Gaga was just hanging out.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
I have no idea, I don't I think maybe wherever
her favorite friends have friends that were somewhere and they
had trampoline and somehow she ended up on the trampling
with Lady Gaga.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
Yeah, okay, Well.
Speaker 5 (39:27):
Just so you know, we are kind of crazy. We
do stuff like that. Wild you want a skydive, we
support you. Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Thank you for your emails and your voicemails. We always
love them.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
You can email us hey, they're at Feeling Things podcasts
dot com. No matter how serious, big, we can keep
you anonymous. We can give every detail like whatever you.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Will allow, we will try to honor and respect whatever
you would like for us to put out there. And
you can also call us eight seven seven two O
seven two O seven seven. Most importantly, we hope, wherever
you are, you have the day you need to have.
Bye Bye,
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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