July 30, 2026 • 51 mins
This week we're tackling a listener question that's been on everyone's mind: is it okay to use AI as your therapist? We break down the real pros and cons, from accessibility to the risk of over-relying on something that can't read a room or hold real accountability.
Then we dig into a gut-wrenching anonymous voicemail from a mom navigating estrangement from one of her sons…we also talk about how social media algorithms may be quietly reinforcing family cutoffs once someone goes down that road.
We lighten things up with a listener's amazing story about her mom, a 1960s nursing student who was so determined to give birth without twilight sleep medication that she bit her lip through labor rather than make a sound, delivered 7 of her 9 kids naturally, and went on to become a Lamaze instructor.
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HOSTS:
Amy Brown // RadioAmy.com // @RadioAmy
Kat Van Buren // threecordstherapy.com // @KatVanburen
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
While we hope Couch Talks can be a tool that
helps them supports wherever you are in life, Couch Talks
does not serve as a replacement or substitute for therapy
or any mental health services to good all right, break
it down.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
If you ever have feelings that, it just falls home.
Amy and Cat got your cob and like and now,
ladies and fellas, you just follow the spirit where it's
soundings front and real stuff to the jail stuff and
the m but sway, sometimes the best thing you can
do it jest, stop to feel that. This is Feeling
(00:37):
Things with.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Amy and Kat.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Happy Thursday, Welcome to Couch Talks, our Q and a
episode to the Feeling Things podcast. I'm Amy and I'm Kat,
And we got two emails today. Well, actually the second
one is a voicemail, but she wants to be anonymous,
and the voicemail is kind of long, and I feel
like we could use a voice changer, but for a
long voicemail it would be like this. And so I
(01:03):
just summarized her voicemail and I'll read it. But this
first email that we got is from Sarah in North Carolina.
She said she's in her mid thirties, so keep that
in mind as you considered the question at hand.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Mid thirties. I don't know why I feel like that's.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
So important, but I feel like people, and a lot
of people are mid thirties are probably contemplating this, especially
in the twenties.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Twenties they're already doing it.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Twenties are doing it. Mid thirties are thinking about it.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Forty year olds are like, what, how do you do that?
Fifty year olds are like never. Sixty year olds might
be like, can someone teach me? Yeah, Hi, Amy and Kat,
I'm curious as to how you feel about using an
AI chatbot for therapy. I realized that an AI bought
has no certification or ethical authority to provide insight. However,
it does have a vast range of access to therapeutic practices.
(01:53):
I understand there is no board governoring, governoring, governoring, governing.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Governor, you got it at.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Less, you know, I'm that AI.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Governoring governing.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Thank you, She says, there's no board.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
You know, you get it, So there's no one to
complain to if they give crap advice. But there are
plenty of life coaches out there, so I had a
few conversations with an AI system when I was feeling
on edge and vulnerable. It helped me name and identify
my feelings, provided practical, step by step things to go
(02:30):
forward and things that would help like a cold ice pack,
as well as providing scripts for me for conversations I
needed to have with people in my life at an
appropriate time, for example, not while I'm emotionally exhausted. It
all seemed like sound, insightful advice and kept me from
slamming a few doors, which I mean, have you ever
(02:52):
slammed a door?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yes, it's why my door got taken off the hinges.
As a child, yeah, I don't think I've slammed a door,
But as like as an adult, I no, I did
throw something against a wall recently.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Oh okay, save that smish email, and I need to
hear what you threw and what it felt like. Okay,
because I've done that and I've slimmed doors, I try
not to do it.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
When now I think I care because it's like my
door other people are onto. Yeah, when it was my
mom's door, I was like, oh, this door breaks.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
And now you're like, shoot, I don't want to pay
to repair this door. Back to the email. Now, I
should probably find a legit therapist to work through some stuff,
But is it reasonable to use AI during acute moments
of stress. I don't want to become dependent on an
inanimate force, but having someone to turn to when I'm
(03:45):
spiraling seems like a good thing.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Thoughts.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Thanks Sarah, and see and again, like I said, mid thirties.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I think this is a really good question, and I think,
like you said, there's probably so many people contemplating this,
and she brings up so many good points. There is
not a black and white answer to this.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
And Cat's a therapist, by the way, Yeah, reports.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
To a there's a governing board that you can complain
to me about, complain to them about you. Yes, yeah, yeah, yes,
So she's there's all the points you made it are true,
including like there are so many other ways you could
get it, non regulated advice and information from, including all
(04:32):
types of helpers out there that anybody can say they
do anything these days, and social media and before that
we had Google, we could google things, And so I
think I don't what I don't want to do is
say like this is bad. But what I wish we
had is like parameters in things that we could use
(04:54):
us for and things that we don't use us for
that or rules, And that's where I think the problem lies,
because there's no rules, and this could go so many
different ways, and you can get enmeshed with an AI
chat bot, and I mean, we've talked about people having
relationships with these chat bot things, and there's also been
(05:16):
a couple instances where they have given really poor, scary
advice and have helped people carry out things that they
that a therapist or a human would be calling a
crisis line over. So that's what scares me. And then
the other thing that scares me is, and I say this,
(05:40):
I've used chat shabt. I recently used it to help
me draw a picture of curtains and my baby nursery,
and I feel really guilt. There's a part of me
that feels really guilty every time I use it because
I'm like, how much water am I wasting?
Speaker 3 (05:56):
You know?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
And so if that's what we're always going towards, where
we're always used the thing that we're always using versus
you know, a person there, it does bring up some
other environmental issues too. So this is I think weighted
in so many ways. If you have no other option
(06:20):
and you really need help and you're in a pickle.
I don't see the harm in asking a simple question
that isn't life threatening.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Well, she's saying she wants to find a therapist to
go through it, but she would like to have this
as a So.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah, I think that is. I think I struggle even
saying that because I feel like I shouldn't say that,
but there's a part of me that's like, there are
people that don't have any other resources, and it's better
to have something than nothing. But also saying that this
is not error free, so you're also risking something. But
(06:57):
they're not all therapists.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Are good, so yeah, there's risk there too.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, so I have a Yeah, I have a hard
time being like this is good and this is bad.
This is what you should do, this isn't what you
should should do. I think I just wish we had
regulations around it. You know.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I did ask AI, okay their thoughts on it. So
when I got this email, I thought, well, I'm going
to ask AI what they think about their advice. Okay,
So I used Claude to be specific, and I said,
are there any cons in using you as a therapist?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Hopefully they said.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yeah, oh yeah, they replied back immediately. Here are the
main cons for the person seeking help. First of all,
there's no real human connection. Empathy from AI feels hollow
to many people and can't replicate the genuine therapeutic relationship,
which is often where healing actually happens. It's a negative.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
I imagine you offer that to your clients, so you definitely do.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
It.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Can't read body language, tone or nonverbal cues that a
trained therapist picks up on. It's not equipped to handle
crisis situations, suicidal ideation or severe mental illness safety like
you were saying, may give generic responses that feel validating
in the moment, but don't actually challenge unhealthy patterns. Risk
(08:27):
of over reliance. It's always available, which can prevent someone
from building real coping skills or human support systems.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I watched Oh my gosh. I think it's called Companion.
Bobby had recommended on the show. So I don't want
to give away too much because going into it I
didn't really know.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
But it involves the documentary.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
No, it's a movie, and it involves chat bought type
connections and relationships, and it really freaked me out. Thinking
this seems so far fetched right now, but we could
be on the cusp of this actually existing. Who knows,
maybe somewhere else in the world it actually does exist.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Well, people are marrying AI bots and.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
I know, but they're they're not. This is like they're
physically there with you.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Oh that doesn't I mean, I never thought we'd have this,
so it that I'm like, yeah, maybe we could have that.
I think that's where my brain goes of Technology is
great and it's helped us in so many ways, and
I'm so grateful for it. And it feels like we
just keep putting stuff out there before we have the
safety measures in place, and so I wish before we
(09:42):
were like you can use AI for a therapist, there
were safety measures in place. And I keep reading articles
and seeing things online about how AI is like out
smarting certain things. And so now I'm afraid that, Okay,
we put these safety measures in place, but AI is
going to be smarter than the safety measures, and so
(10:04):
what is that What risk does that pose to the user.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
That sort of is in alignment with the movie I
was just talking about too, Like there's just things that
happened where you're like, oh.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Shoot, it's like the Santa Claus three or whatever. Do
you remember you have ever seen it when he's a robot?
Speaker 4 (10:18):
I don't know that I made it so three?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Oh, I love the original Santa Claus of scrap.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Okay, well in I don't know if it was exactly three.
It could have been four, honestly, But there was one
where they made like a alternate Santa I forget why,
and he ended up taking over and had all these
like robot guys with him.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
So there's no elves and stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Well, there are, the elves are there, but he like
created this own like little army. I think I haven't
seen it in a couple of years. But the whole
point of it is they created this to help them
fix a problem or find a solution to something, and
then it became smarter than everybody else and was actually
creating more more problems, so.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Well that they have more risks there.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
The AI the.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Claude, what is I don't I've heard Claude is that.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
It's just a different It's different than chat GPT, so
same mightia. Yeah, yeah, there's just different. I guess people
that produce it. I don't know the proper way to
say it, but you know, okay, different creators, Yes, sort
of like meta has Facebook and Instagram and it's like
the umbrella of where it comes from. And then you know,
(11:31):
what are the some other social Twitter is a different
I get it.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, yeah you can. You can read that.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
I was like, I don't know how to explain this.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Privacy concerns. Your most vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Thoughts aren't going into a database. Okay, how did that
not come out of my head? That is terrifying. There's
no hippo laws with AI.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
It can accidentally reinforce delusions or unhealthy healthy thinking if
not prompted. Correct.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
We kind of covered that one.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
And then lastly, no continuity of care or accountability the
way a real therapist relationship provides.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, well so, and so that I think that all
kind of goes into if this is like I need
some tips to help reduce my desire to slam this door,
right like.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
In Sarah's case, I feel like it's like, yeah, like
get a cold ice pack put on your body, Like.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, but that problem could also be a symptom of
a bigger problem that isn't then being addressed when you're
talking to this and you wouldn't know the questions to
ask AI to get to that actual root issue. So
for symptom management, it's probably fine. Just like again, we
could google what are some tips to help reduce my anxiety?
(12:46):
I could google that before AI was a thing, and
I'm sure there are a million articles came up or
podcasts or whatever, and so that's kind of similar, so
that I don't have a problem with. But I think
Sarah has a good head on her shoulders where she
like this helped me with this? Is that? Okay, I'm
going to also go take care of this and get
an actual therapist.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
What I just typed in is slamming doors healthy?
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Well?
Speaker 4 (13:11):
I wanted to know what I'm saying now. I'm just curious.
I just typed in, is slamming doors healthy?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Well? I wanted to know what I'm saying now, I'm
just curious, is this AI?
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Uh huh?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
It says when it becomes a problem, if slamming doors
is used to intimidate someone else, when it becomes a
pattern instead of actually processing the emotion, when it scares
people around you, especially kids, and when it's a substitute
for actually communicating what is wrong. So why did you
throw something the other day, and what was it?
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Well, it actually wasn't the other day. It was in.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
November, November of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Yes, I could have swore a minute ago you said
I threw something the other.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Felt the other day, but I couldn't lie. I had
to be honest. It wasn't the other day. I haven't
been feeling angry the last through my pregnancy. I feel
like I've been feeling pretty positive. It was about how much?
What do I want to say about this? I threw
a shoe at the wall and that nothing broke, and
(14:34):
it did feel really good, and I think it was helpful.
I probably would not encourage anybody to do that. I
wish that I had like punched a pillow or something
like that to get that urge out, but I was
struggling with some changes that I was going through. Keep
in mind, I also had just come off of an
(14:54):
egg retrieval, so who knows what was going on in
my body, and I was frustrated and there was no
solution to my problem. So I just needed to like
release some of that energy. So again, I don't recommend
anybody throwing a shoe at a wall, but I did
feel really good.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
You could throw it at I'd be worried about messing
up the drywall.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah, obviously I'm not that strong.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
You could throw it, like on the floor as hard
as you possibly could if you needed to.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
My therapist at one point years ago, sometime in the
last few years told me to get ice cubes and
go outside and throw them.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, which is what I would tell somebody to do,
is go outside and throw or again, punch a pellow
or something like that. But I so you punch a
pillow exercise, it's the same I just punching a pillow.
But you're not going to break your fist by punching
your pillow and you're not gonna hurt anything, just like
screaming into a pillow or something like that. So do
(15:54):
as I say it, not as I do.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
So you just grab the pillow and have it on
the bed and like punch it with your fists.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Sure doesn't have to be on a bed, put on
a couch, put on a chair. You have somebody hold it. Oh,
and then you're just really you don't do it to
their face.
Speaker 5 (16:13):
Okay, I'm curious something or slammed the door. It's been
a minute, Okay, thank But I've thrown things. Yeah, yeah,
I've slammed milk. I've talked about that.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Before, and like a jug of milk, and milk was flying,
I went flying everywhere.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Did it feel good?
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Felt real good?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
And then you have to clean it.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
But then I was like cleaning up milk and then
finding it like on the cabinet days later, I'm like, oh, great,
it wasn't worth it, And that that one I'm not
proud of because that was in front of my kids.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Everybody, as may Sarah says, everybody makes mistakes, yes, So
that readys to be perfect in that stuff, especially because
when you're to the point where you're doing that, you've
already passed like your window of tolerance where you're not
making rational decisions. So if I before I got to
that point, was like, I'm getting really frustrated and upset.
(17:08):
I know this is bubbling up. I need to go
release some of this. Then I could have gone and
got some ice cubes or something and gone to my
backyard and really said yes. But I let myself get
to the point because I think I was trying to
hold it together versus actually acknowledging what was going on
inside of me.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
You know, all right, we have our voicemail that I'm
going to recap what it is.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Okay, again, the listener.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Left us this, but in order to keep them mononymous,
here's what they were saying. She's got three sons, including
a set of twins. One of the twins has cut
off her and her husband, insisting they never gave him
the same opportunities as his brothers, which she says is
simply not true. She has tried to have the conversation.
(17:54):
She's apologized for anything that may have made him feel
this way, and even had family members reach out, but
he's not budging. So again, the overall theme of this
is her son. What's that called?
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Well, he's severed the relationship, But what's it called?
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Like kids he's cutting off?
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Is strange?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Strange?
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, But isn't there a thing when like kids are
doing it? There's it's like a thing Oprah was talking
about it. It's like a whole thing.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Cutting them off. I mean, is this a simple word
that I just can't like come up with?
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Strange? Is it? But I feel like there's another word
that's associated with it too, that Oprah was like having
the Oprah was having the person a bunch of the
kids caring on.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
What does Oprah call kids cutting Oprah?
Speaker 4 (18:42):
But Okay, back to what she was saying.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
She raises an interesting point about how social media is
playing a role in estrangement, noting that algorithms tend to
feed and reinforce that decision once someone goes down that path.
She said, it is heartbreaking beyond words, and wonders which
version of him was real, the one who sent thirty
years of loving Mother's Day cards or the one who.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Has now walked away.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
She's not asking him to agree with her version of
events and what has happened. She just really wants her
son to meet in the middle so they can move forward,
because his decision is breaking up their family. She's praying,
staying open and looking for any insight on advice on
how to navigate this.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, I think this is becoming a I don't know
if phenomenon feels like the wrong word, because that feels
like almost a positive word. But this is becoming pervasive.
I think in I can only speak.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
To going no contact.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Oh yeah, ye, yeah, no contact, Yeah yeah, going no
contact is becoming very trebling. Yeah, I think you saying
trendy is exactly it.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
No, because it was what Oprah did a whole special
trend about going no contact, and that is what I
was looking for.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
I googled it.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
We found it.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yay s you google what is Oprah call?
Speaker 3 (20:06):
I googled Oprah child estrangement and then it brought up
articles about going no contact.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah so, and you've probably seen this on Instagram and
all that. I mean, you saw the Oprah thing. Oh
see that this is the thing, and she's right and
what she's saying about. Social media has impacted this. I
think the use of therapy speak and therapy terms and
all of that on TikTok and Instagram and I mean
(20:33):
podcasts all that. People are putting really good information out,
but it's being overgeneralized and then it's being reinforced because
if you watch one video about this, you're going to
see another one and your brain is going to start
to turn and move and shift towards thinking like, oh,
that's me. Because especially you see videos that are like
(20:54):
if this happened to you, that means this is what's
going on and you need this, And the videos are
doing what they set out to do, you know, get
people to pay attention and listen and follow and all that,
but it's changing our brains. And just how we were
talking about with the difference between like an AI therapist
and going to a therapist somebody talking about an idea,
(21:17):
which we do this too, So I want to hold
ourselves accountable for this as well. Talking about an idea
and teaching something through social media or what have you
is very different than listening to somebody's specific story to
see what actually is going on. And so if you
get if you match with like two of the things
that somebody is saying, like this is what it takes
(21:39):
to go no contact, or if these things are happening
in your family, you should go on no contact, or
your relationship is toxic or whatever like that, stuff like that.
If you match with two of those things, then you
start listening and then you're like, well, maybe I match
with that other one, and I can see how that
other one would fit too, when your brain is kind
of doing some mental gymnastics to do that, you know,
(22:01):
so I think the combination of and this is all
to say, I don't know this family, so he very
well well may have every right to go no contact.
And maybe you guys just see things very differently. I
don't want to speak on that because I don't have
any of that information, but I do want to empathize
with the mom about this is something that is happening
(22:23):
and there's not a solution right now. It honestly feels
like it's getting worse. There's this term called safety safety
ism that basically is saying that it used to be
like being safe was, you know, free from physical danger,
and now it's being shifted slowly. We started giving information
(22:47):
about emotional safety and our nervous systems and regulation and
all that, and so now safety has turned into a
term that people, I think combine with not feeling uncomfortable.
And so if we confuse safety and comfort, then we
will end up pushing away very normal things that happen
(23:11):
in relationship. It's very very normal to have rupture in relationship.
It's very very normal to be hurt by a rupture. Rupture.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Okay, I was clarifying. I thought that's what you said,
but I wanted to make sure you were saying.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah, rupture, which is like or conflict. It's very normal
to have arguments with your parents. It's very normal. I
love my parents. There are things that in my childhood.
I'm like, I wish this was different, or this is
this was messed up and they don't agree, or there's
there's stuff there, But that does not equal that my
(23:45):
parents are not safe and not good people and don't
love me and I can't have a relationship with them.
And so that, I think is where we are. We're
instead of learning how to have some internal boundaries, or
learning how to sit with the discomfort, or learning how
to have healthy confrontations with people, we're just like, well,
you did this to me and that's toxic, and so
(24:09):
I'm cutting you off. You don't deserve my time and
attention because we aren't used to being able to sit
with discomfort. Which I say this a lot. I'm sure
I've said it on here before that oftentimes we're the
safest when we're uncomfortable, and so it's really problematic to
(24:29):
assume those things have to live side by side. They're
very very different. Now, Sometimes we experience discomfort when we
are unsafe. Most people probably would. That doesn't mean that
every time we feel discomfort we are unsafe, right.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Yeah, safety ism, that's a new one for me.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
I don't know that that's not like a term that's
going to be in a psychological dictionary. I think that
comes from is it.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
An urban dictionary?
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Do you ever look stuff up there?
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (25:05):
But I hope that that is. I don't know what
it would be an urban dictionary. I think it might
have a different look it up. I'm sure it has
a different.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
Safety safety isism.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Okay, refers to a culture or belief system in which
safety has become a sacred value, which means that people
become unwilling to make trade offs demanded by their practical
and moral concerns.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Okay, that's pretty close.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Another, because urban dictionary gives you different things, it says
basically means that we are putting a safety in children. Wow,
these kids are so soft. Maybe if the world wasn't
so full of safetyism, we wouldn't have this.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yeah, okay, So basically what's happening is we're being taught
like never to feel hurt or anxious or misunderstood, and
when those things happen, that is bad, and we must
(26:12):
create these like very rigid boundaries versus exploring when those
things happen and learning how to cope and handle them.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Something popped in my head when you were talking about
you see like two of the seven things listed.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
If you've got two, you're like, oh.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
This is me.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
That makes me think of ADHD. And a lot of
the self diagnosis that happens online or everyone seems to
be claiming it, which I'm sure a lot of people
have it, and that's fine. When like you really have it,
and then you see everybody just casually throwing it around,
I'm like.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
And I think that's where there's It's like this double
edged sword where it has been so helpful for people
to learn about ADHD and figure out, oh, I might
have that, and then go explore that and maybe they
get a diagnosis and maybe they get.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Help actually diagnosed.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Well. On the flip side of that is that people
see that that don't have it and are just like, oh,
that's me. And then now whether they I don't want
to say this as a blanket, but it can then
be used as a crutch for them. I was like, well,
I have ADHD. So I'm like, well, that's not the
point of diagnosis is to just excuse certain things. It's
to give you information so you can figure out what
you need and understand yourself better. And so yeah, it's
(27:33):
the double edge that I fight with. I mean, we've
had conversations about this all the time. There are moments.
This hasn't happened in a while, but for a couple
of years, every like six months, I was like, I'm
shutting down my Instagram and I'm deleting this podcast, the
old podcast that I used to have. You need therapy
because I'm part of the problem. But that's also not
(27:54):
the solution, because you need voices that are kind of
in the middle to separate from the extreme voices that
are saying if you have all this, this is who
you are, follow me and buy my program.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Well, you weren't selling a program.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
I was. You weren't a part of the problem.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Well, I also trust me.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
I've told Kat like she could put together a really
good course and like sell it. She was like, I'm
not not doing a course. I have no interest in
doing a course. I don't want to do a course.
I don't want to sell a course.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Like I Yeah, you were hot on me doing a course.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
I wouldn't describe it as hot on you. I just
saw these and this was this was a few years ago.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Yeah, yeah, I just thought, why are you doing good
for you?
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Because I was seeing all these other people do it now,
I feel like it's courses galore out there, and any Tom, Sally,
Jim Suzie has a course and you don't. I mean,
who knows what's even in that course? And did they
write it or did a I write it?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Speaking of courses, Oh.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
What, I just well, let me finish.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
I saw it.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
I just thought you were I wanted you're trying.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
I know how good you are at this sort of thing,
and I'm like, you should do a course like this
would be good for you.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
I thought you would.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
And then I'm glad you used to your grounds and
you didn't want to do your course, And that's fine.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
There are probably some great courses in the world.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
I just feel like it would stress me out to
not be able to have that if the course was
a live course and I could interact.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
With the people like that makes me think of Ali
Fallon's courses, for example, and because not again, yeah, we
should preface. The courses can be good. It depends on
what you can put into them and how you're operating them.
But she would every week there was live zoom calls
and everybody's on there and she's hands on. I think
my cousin has even had a course with some of
(29:44):
her stuff, and she meets with the people regularly.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
I guess some that yeah, I bought.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
You did her course.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
I did lease this course. I work the noise.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Like six years ago.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I was a guest with her because she did she
did cohorts, so like you would do the course together,
and I did like a group call with them. So
it's a course, but it's not. They're interacting to and
having actual conversations.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
Right whereas some courses.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
You're it's just information and getting.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
The yeah, and you don't have this interaction, which some
of those might be great too. I don't want to
be like dogging on all the courses. I just I
believed in you.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
I thought you could do it. You had no interest,
which is fine.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Thanks.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Okay, what else you were going.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
To say something I was gonna say speaking of courses. Okay,
I tried to do a course yesterday and I could
not get through it. I'm doing a birth in class online.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Don't recommend what you recommend.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
You should do it in person.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Or maybe just just I could be just my course
that I chose, but I think that in person definitely
would help, because one I fell asleep at one point
and my husband fell asleep at another point. But it
was just like cheesy, you know, you know, it felt
like it was from the nineties, and like it's something
that I would watch in school that your teacher is like,
(31:02):
write down three facts you learn during this to make
sure you're paying attention. I had my notes out at
the top of my notepad. I wrote birth class. Guess
what else? I wrote nothing. I didn't take any notes,
So if anybody has a good birth class recommendation. I
thought we were gonna be learning about baby care, but
(31:23):
it ended up being like.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Not that. So I thought a book you don't know,
I'm sleep You're like me about a lot.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Of it is just about and maybe we haven't gotten
it to it yet, but a lot of it was
just about like pregnancy, and I'm like, well, I'm through
behalf of this. So where's the like how to give
a baby a bath part, you know, which I do know.
You don't give them a bath until a full body bath,
until the umbilical chord comes.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
Off, and then they can take their little sink bath.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yeah, and you put them, yeah in a little I
got a little bathtub.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
That's cute. Yeah, your nursery's coming along. It looks really good.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Thanks.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Well, how much we're down, We're getting down to it?
Not two months?
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Uh yeah, I think sa I'm thirty weeks.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
I think like, yeah, or less than two months.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Because I'll probably give birth early.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
So yeah, are you gonna have people come up to
the hospital or no.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
So I've been talking about this with Patrick. I believe
that I will not want that. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Okay,
I'm sorry. Do you get to apologize? Okay, that is
totally fine.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Well you made like a because.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
I was just I'm just being around with you.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
I get it. Or I think what I might do
is have my family will come, I'm sure. But also
I don't know how long you're at the hospital, so
like maybe it would won't.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Matter as soon as well, I don't know. I think
it varies for everybody, but I think you'll want to
get out of there as soon as.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
Possible, say you can be dish charged.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
But I'm even toying around with the idea of like
not having visitors for two weeks.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Okay, I've heard of that.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Just because I'm anxious about germs and I know myself
this is really coming from me. I can't control myself
so around a baby, you know, like I just want
to like squeeze it and kiss it, and like, you know,
do you get that way?
Speaker 4 (33:26):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I don't, So I just don't want to also be
worried about like did they wash their hands long enough,
or like they kissed the baby, like what if? Or
having to say to somebody you can't come because you've
been doing this, but like this other friend could come.
I'm just gonna make a blanket. I think we're gonna
wait two weeks. This also could change because I might
(33:47):
be like, I don't care. I want my friends to
see this baby. I might be at Target a week later.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
I doubt it.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
I won't be a target, but not That's what I'm
thinking is gonna happen. But I was hoping this birth
course would give me more information about that, and I
just it didn't.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Well, yeah, you don't know if it did, because you
fell asleep. We did get another email. This isn't a question,
but it's just something since we're talking about births. I'll
added in because it's over the last several weeks, we've
had random Twilight birth stories ever since We brought that
up a while back, and a listener sent an email saying,
(34:28):
your discussion on twilight births made me remember a funny
story my mom told me. My mom was a nurse
and in nineteen sixty two, she was a one year
out of nursing school and pregnant with her first baby.
She had done rotations in nursing school and labor and
delivery and witnessed the effects of the medication used during
twilight births. She said that she did not want to
give birth not being aware of what was happening.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
She wanted to be present.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
She did not like feeling out of control or want
to be embarrassed not knowing how she behaved during delivery.
So she found a doctor that would allow her to
give birth naturally with no medication. But the doctor told
her very curtly that if she made one peep during delivery,
he would immediately give.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
Her the twilight medication.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
She was so determined that she bit her lip and
did not make one sound of the entire delivery. Needless
to say, my mom was not only strong but stubborn.
She gave birth to seven of her nine babies naturally.
The last two twins ended up as an emergency c section.
She ended up becoming a Letmama's instructor in the seventies
(35:35):
and eighties, teaching expecting parents about childbirth and what to
expect and all the natural methods they can do to
reduce medical interventions.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
Love your show, that's not allowed?
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Wait, what did you just saying that that's like a consent?
Don't you have to consent to take medication if you're coherent?
Like I can refuse things.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Well, this was in sixty two, Like women weren't Like
you couldn't even get a credit card or I open
your own bank account without your husband's signature.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
You probably couldn't buy a house by yourself.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Without your dad or your husband.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I need to ask because my mom was born in
nineteen sixty three. I want to ask her. Her Mom's
not still alive, but I wonder if she if that
was a thing for her, for my grandma. I didn't
think about my grandma. I mean, we've been talking about
this for weeks, but I think about this was like
my grandma's time of having kids.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Yeah, I wish I could ask my mom about it,
or even my grandma. My aunt's so alive, I might
need to call her. But some of this stuff yet
it doesn't make you think about when my mom got
with my dad in the seventies.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
She couldn't.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
My own mom couldn't go open a bank account.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Your mom couldn't, well, yeah, women couldn't.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
She was my mom was woman like.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
No, I think, I'm I'm when were women allowed to
open bank accounts? Do we know?
Speaker 3 (37:04):
We need to fact check it late late seventies or
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Let me Because my mom got married in nineteen eighty four,
I think surely she could have a credit card by then.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
Well, credit cards weren't as popular back then too.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Yeah, I guess so, well, could she have a bank account?
Speaker 3 (37:22):
That's sure sure looking account that we when could women
open their own bank account without a man? Women were
allowed to open checking accounts by themselves in nineteen seventy
four with the passage of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act,
(37:43):
which prohibited credit discrimination based on gender. Before this, many
banks required a male co signer for women to access
banking services.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
So for Trivia.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Night, it would be the Equal Credit Opportunity Act of
nineteen seventy four, for sure, remember that.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
But that's crazy. But I also am just thinking about, like,
in general, how women were treated. I would not want
to be be giving birth back then, if women didn't
even have the right to refuse or the right to
make decisions. Like I'm getting very overwhelmed right now because
I have to have a birth plan and I downloaded
(38:22):
like a template from online somewhere, and it was all
these things that I have to decide that I am like,
I don't It's so many decisions that I don't understand
that I'm like, I'll do this later, which is a
better problem to have then Back then, you weren't allowed
to make any decisions. It sounds like, well, I'm sure
there were some, but you just had to.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
Have the male co signer, like you couldn't do.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
So what if your husband was like, you will be
giving a twilight birth and I was like I want one, yeah,
I mean, or like you will be getting an epidural
and I wanted to have a natural birth, Like you
don't get to make that decision. Versus if my husband
gave any input about what I'm allowed to do and
not allowed to do during birth or labor, he would
(39:10):
not be in the room with me, you know, Like
I get to actually decide is he allowed to be
in the room or not? He didn't just get to
be there powerful.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Okay, this guy just popped into my head because this
was a viral clip that I was seeing it on
social media everywhere.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
But it could have just been my algorithm. So let
me know.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
If you saw the guy, the young husband praying with
his young wife and his baby for his wife's period.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Did you see that? Wait? Is this the thing? Everything?
Speaker 4 (39:45):
Okay he was stitching it or wait?
Speaker 1 (39:46):
But is this the thing where I saw something else
where somebody was going viral for It was something to
do with like refusing fertilities. They were just praying to God.
This must have been something.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
I don't know if they're the same couple.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
This is. They're sitting on the bed, they're holding the baby,
and they've he's set up the camera. The husband is
very much a performative Christian. I'm not challenging his faith.
Maybe a lovely person. I'm not even gonna say who
he is because but I watched it enough with my
own eyeballs to get the biggest ick as a Christian myself.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Yeah, the biggest ick.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Like I felt for his wife and I felt for
his baby, and I'm like, I mean to give grace
because like he maybe means well, and he's grown up
in an era of like maybe he's a document or
he likes to film himself doing things. So he set
up a camera to film their prayer time. So he
(40:56):
set up a camera to film their prayer time. And
I'm paraphrasing, but imagine the camera is him his wife.
They're kind of holding their baby. The baby's awake, moving around.
She doesn't know it's for a time. But he's like, Lord,
I just pray for Brenda, Brenda's period. You know that
(41:16):
she would able, she would be able to be productive
today and.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
Not be lazy.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
Not what I that, you know, I can't even the
words don't even come to me to reenactivity said is
just so not normal for me. But he was almost
like putting little digs at his wife. But he said
lazy and the name of the devil sort of well
I don't know if he said, but he was giving
those vibes. I got a paraphrasing, but it had that energy,
(41:46):
so it's not that far off. But he was putting
it as though it's you know, of the devil. But
his wife is like laying in bed and pain, but
like the Lord is gonna prevent that so his wife
can be up and being productive with her day and
that her period doesn't win. Like, the whole thing was
so awkward. I wish I had a transcript of it
(42:07):
so I could just read it to you, because you
would get back of this.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
But I probably i'll watch it later. I'll probably get
really angry versus like, hey, honey, what do you need today?
I know you're you might be on your period, and
I know that makes things tough, and I don't know
what that's like because I've never had a period. It's
actually a major thing that goes on in your body.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
None of that or how show how can I can
be of servos to her?
Speaker 1 (42:34):
And that poor poor wife?
Speaker 4 (42:38):
Oh well, yeah, she was sitting there right along with
the part.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
I mean she they were young, Like I was just thinking,
oh gosh, I just do not I mean yeah, I
just googled it and there's so many videos. I'm looking
at the comments of one YouTuber that posted it. What
I hate about this era is the performative nonsense. God forbid,
(43:04):
the wife of the wife appliance isn't working at full
capacity for a few days. Wives are not applying.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Also, like why are we posting? What was his m
O for posting that.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Someone else put in the comments? It's ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
I'm on my period, but my husband's going to put
up a tripod.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
In him record.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Then he's kind of pray.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
This is maddening. Yeah, that's wild. I mean it really
was like, you have nothing else to do but to
film this prayer? And what was he thinking? I guess
what I think he.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Thought he was being genuinely helpful in a good okay.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
Stewart, like a good partner, good steward.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Of the lord, obedient like here, I am as the
man of this house, taking care of my home.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
For when like he could just like cook her dinner,
you know.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
Right, Like that's how he could, like if she does
need to stay in better shoes. Oh oh oh, I
wonder if I could just turn this up.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
It's flying pain and we like to start her period
in prayer.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Oh sure, this is the person breaking it down.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Oh dang, I'm going to start my period in prayer.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Uh yeah, I'm going to start her period in prayer.
And so this is someone on YouTube named Destiny who
is breaking down the husband's period prayer, so I thought
it was going to play the whole video.
Speaker 4 (44:43):
That's a skipping commentary. Dang, dang, dang.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
I'm sure we can all search that now if no,
but if people you haven't seen it, I'm going to
be searching that. I don't know if I should search
it because I think it will just bring me anger,
and you know, I don't want to be thrown to
shoes at the wall again. Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
I wish does nobody where's AI out for this? I
just asked for the transcript. I googled it. I googled
Christian man praying for wife's period viral video online transcript.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Has he taken it down?
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Though?
Speaker 1 (45:13):
I feel like maybe he might have taken it down.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
I don't know because I don't follow him, but I
did mosey on over to his account at one point
when I think I realized, like, oh, this is his
actual page, and there were a lot of videos of
him in the car talking about nonsense, you know, sharing
his wisdom and insight. And I think he's from what
(45:37):
I gather I am generalizing, I would think he would
see all of this as he's needs to keep it up.
This is the devil and he needs to stay the course, okay,
because he's doing the right thing, and of course there's
gonna be resistance, right.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
That's just that's the mental gymnastics you do.
Speaker 4 (45:58):
Just the vibe that I was getting.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
I don't think he's gonna be like, oh gosh, maybe
I need to reconsider.
Speaker 4 (46:04):
I think he's the type that might be like, oh,
we need to double down.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
The devil's working harder.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
Yeah, so we're gonna pray for your period every month
like this. Okay, Well, sorry, that was a little bit
of a mess of me trying to explain that and
even play that video back. But you saw that I
got the vine there, Yeah, yeah, got it. I don't
know we would get into that, or obviously i'd be
a little more prepared with it. But it's it was
(46:28):
weeks ago that it was viral. I'm so shocked you
didn't see it.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
No, I've seen some other that's first of all, my
algorithm is still so messed up right now that I
sometimes don't even enjoy being on social media. It's all
like what to pack in your hospital bag. And you know,
those videos have been making me cry and you can
only watch so many of them. But I've been seeing
I've seen videos of the like, but nothing that bad. Bad.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
Yeah, frustrating. Frustrating might be the worst.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
And I just felt for the wife and I again,
I'm going to go I'm going to err on the
side of like, he had good he has good intentions.
Speaker 4 (47:08):
They're just young.
Speaker 3 (47:09):
Well.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
And also, I should say this because I probably sound judgmental,
that if that works for their family, if that's what
she wants, and she has full autonomy to think for
herself and she has options and choices and all of that,
then I good for her. Different strokes for different folks.
Speaker 4 (47:32):
YEA, thank you for saying that for both of us.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yes, I said that, yeah, and that would not work
for me, and that there's a lot of I think
problems that could arise from that kind of thinking working
for me. I'm treading carefully. I just want to make
sure that she like knows that she deserves to be
(48:01):
taken care of when or take care of herself when
she's having a.
Speaker 4 (48:04):
Physical reaction to her period.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
Yeah, it's like physical emotional reaction. It's like I just
prayed it.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
There's countries that get paid leave when they're on their period,
like they we wouldn't be having that if it wasn't
a thing. I think in our neck of the woods,
it's really really and part of that is because people
don't understand it. I didn't understand what was happening in
my body until recently. It's an actual major thing that happens.
(48:38):
And if you're feeling something, you don't have to like
gaslight yourself out of it. And I don't use that
term lightly, but I think for a while in my
life I was like, Oh, it's no big deal, and
I want to be a baby tough enough. It's just
your period.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Oh. I know for a fact if men were the
ones having the period, it would be different.
Speaker 4 (49:00):
How gross, Well, no, it would be probably more.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
It wouldn't be Oh, we would be very accommodating to it.
We wouldn't no choice.
Speaker 3 (49:09):
They and but they would know everything is gross because
part of what they do. And then they if they
were in pain that much, there would be a system like, yes,
there would be a way to support them and they
would have time off. And this isn't me being a
man hater. I just think I'll get the email like
why is Amy so hating against them? I actually don't
hate man.
Speaker 4 (49:28):
I love men. I have a son, I love my son.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
I have a brother.
Speaker 4 (49:32):
I love my brother. I loved my dad.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Yeah, I had a boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
I loved him.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
I'm not anti men.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
Men think different.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
Yeah, And it's not the men that were like, it's
not the men that I'm talking about in our lives.
I'm talking about, Like the.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Man you're talking about. The patriarchy is what you're talking yes, like.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
Just like like the system, Yes, the system it would
be like there would be it would be way more
accommodating to periods if men were the ones with the periods.
Just just think about it.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
You could take your little credit card that you've been
able to have.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
Since nineteen time.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
Then you would go by yourself, some min doll and
a heating pad and you would take a week off work. Well,
tampons would probably be free, yeah for sure.
Speaker 4 (50:22):
Might all would be free.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Yeah yeah, free heating pad for you, Free heating pad
for you.
Speaker 3 (50:28):
Yeah. Anyway, Well there you go. You can hit us
up via email or voicemail. Hey, they're at Feeling Things
Podcasts at gmail dot No.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
What I can't think it's okay, we're all riled up.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
Hey they're at Feeling Things podcast dot com.
Speaker 1 (50:49):
Good job.
Speaker 3 (50:50):
Hey they're at Feeling Things podcast dot com.
Speaker 4 (50:53):
Yep, one more time.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
I was gonna want to say it again.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
Hey, they're at Feeling Things podcast dot com. And then
our phone number is eight seven seven two O seven
two O seven seven, and we hope you have the
day you need to have.
Speaker 5 (51:06):
Bye.
Speaker 3 (51:06):
Bye,
While we hope Couch Talks can be a tool that
helps them supports wherever you are in life, Couch Talks
does not serve as a replacement or substitute for therapy
or any mental health services to good all right, break
it down.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
If you ever have feelings that, it just falls home.
Amy and Cat got your cob and like and now,
ladies and fellas, you just follow the spirit where it's
soundings front and real stuff to the jail stuff and
the m but sway, sometimes the best thing you can
do it jest, stop to feel that. This is Feeling
(00:37):
Things with.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Amy and Kat.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Happy Thursday, Welcome to Couch Talks, our Q and a
episode to the Feeling Things podcast. I'm Amy and I'm Kat,
And we got two emails today. Well, actually the second
one is a voicemail, but she wants to be anonymous,
and the voicemail is kind of long, and I feel
like we could use a voice changer, but for a
long voicemail it would be like this. And so I
(01:03):
just summarized her voicemail and I'll read it. But this
first email that we got is from Sarah in North Carolina.
She said she's in her mid thirties, so keep that
in mind as you considered the question at hand.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Mid thirties. I don't know why I feel like that's.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
So important, but I feel like people, and a lot
of people are mid thirties are probably contemplating this, especially
in the twenties.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Twenties they're already doing it.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Twenties are doing it. Mid thirties are thinking about it.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Forty year olds are like, what, how do you do that?
Fifty year olds are like never. Sixty year olds might
be like, can someone teach me? Yeah, Hi, Amy and Kat,
I'm curious as to how you feel about using an
AI chatbot for therapy. I realized that an AI bought
has no certification or ethical authority to provide insight. However,
it does have a vast range of access to therapeutic practices.
(01:53):
I understand there is no board governoring, governoring, governoring, governing.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Governor, you got it at.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Less, you know, I'm that AI.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Governoring governing.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Thank you, She says, there's no board.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
You know, you get it, So there's no one to
complain to if they give crap advice. But there are
plenty of life coaches out there, so I had a
few conversations with an AI system when I was feeling
on edge and vulnerable. It helped me name and identify
my feelings, provided practical, step by step things to go
(02:30):
forward and things that would help like a cold ice pack,
as well as providing scripts for me for conversations I
needed to have with people in my life at an
appropriate time, for example, not while I'm emotionally exhausted. It
all seemed like sound, insightful advice and kept me from
slamming a few doors, which I mean, have you ever
(02:52):
slammed a door?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yes, it's why my door got taken off the hinges.
As a child, yeah, I don't think I've slammed a door,
But as like as an adult, I no, I did
throw something against a wall recently.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Oh okay, save that smish email, and I need to
hear what you threw and what it felt like. Okay,
because I've done that and I've slimmed doors, I try
not to do it.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
When now I think I care because it's like my
door other people are onto. Yeah, when it was my
mom's door, I was like, oh, this door breaks.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
And now you're like, shoot, I don't want to pay
to repair this door. Back to the email. Now, I
should probably find a legit therapist to work through some stuff,
But is it reasonable to use AI during acute moments
of stress. I don't want to become dependent on an
inanimate force, but having someone to turn to when I'm
(03:45):
spiraling seems like a good thing.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Thoughts.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Thanks Sarah, and see and again, like I said, mid thirties.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I think this is a really good question, and I think,
like you said, there's probably so many people contemplating this,
and she brings up so many good points. There is
not a black and white answer to this.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
And Cat's a therapist, by the way, Yeah, reports.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
To a there's a governing board that you can complain
to me about, complain to them about you. Yes, yeah, yeah, yes,
So she's there's all the points you made it are true,
including like there are so many other ways you could
get it, non regulated advice and information from, including all
(04:32):
types of helpers out there that anybody can say they
do anything these days, and social media and before that
we had Google, we could google things, And so I
think I don't what I don't want to do is
say like this is bad. But what I wish we
had is like parameters in things that we could use
(04:54):
us for and things that we don't use us for
that or rules, And that's where I think the problem lies,
because there's no rules, and this could go so many
different ways, and you can get enmeshed with an AI
chat bot, and I mean, we've talked about people having
relationships with these chat bot things, and there's also been
(05:16):
a couple instances where they have given really poor, scary
advice and have helped people carry out things that they
that a therapist or a human would be calling a
crisis line over. So that's what scares me. And then
the other thing that scares me is, and I say this,
(05:40):
I've used chat shabt. I recently used it to help
me draw a picture of curtains and my baby nursery,
and I feel really guilt. There's a part of me
that feels really guilty every time I use it because
I'm like, how much water am I wasting?
Speaker 3 (05:56):
You know?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
And so if that's what we're always going towards, where
we're always used the thing that we're always using versus
you know, a person there, it does bring up some
other environmental issues too. So this is I think weighted
in so many ways. If you have no other option
(06:20):
and you really need help and you're in a pickle.
I don't see the harm in asking a simple question
that isn't life threatening.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Well, she's saying she wants to find a therapist to
go through it, but she would like to have this
as a So.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah, I think that is. I think I struggle even
saying that because I feel like I shouldn't say that,
but there's a part of me that's like, there are
people that don't have any other resources, and it's better
to have something than nothing. But also saying that this
is not error free, so you're also risking something. But
(06:57):
they're not all therapists.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Are good, so yeah, there's risk there too.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, so I have a Yeah, I have a hard
time being like this is good and this is bad.
This is what you should do, this isn't what you
should should do. I think I just wish we had
regulations around it. You know.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I did ask AI, okay their thoughts on it. So
when I got this email, I thought, well, I'm going
to ask AI what they think about their advice. Okay,
So I used Claude to be specific, and I said,
are there any cons in using you as a therapist?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Hopefully they said.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yeah, oh yeah, they replied back immediately. Here are the
main cons for the person seeking help. First of all,
there's no real human connection. Empathy from AI feels hollow
to many people and can't replicate the genuine therapeutic relationship,
which is often where healing actually happens. It's a negative.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
I imagine you offer that to your clients, so you definitely do.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
It.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Can't read body language, tone or nonverbal cues that a
trained therapist picks up on. It's not equipped to handle
crisis situations, suicidal ideation or severe mental illness safety like
you were saying, may give generic responses that feel validating
in the moment, but don't actually challenge unhealthy patterns. Risk
(08:27):
of over reliance. It's always available, which can prevent someone
from building real coping skills or human support systems.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I watched Oh my gosh. I think it's called Companion.
Bobby had recommended on the show. So I don't want
to give away too much because going into it I
didn't really know.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
But it involves the documentary.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
No, it's a movie, and it involves chat bought type
connections and relationships, and it really freaked me out. Thinking
this seems so far fetched right now, but we could
be on the cusp of this actually existing. Who knows,
maybe somewhere else in the world it actually does exist.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Well, people are marrying AI bots and.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
I know, but they're they're not. This is like they're
physically there with you.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Oh that doesn't I mean, I never thought we'd have this,
so it that I'm like, yeah, maybe we could have that.
I think that's where my brain goes of Technology is
great and it's helped us in so many ways, and
I'm so grateful for it. And it feels like we
just keep putting stuff out there before we have the
safety measures in place, and so I wish before we
(09:42):
were like you can use AI for a therapist, there
were safety measures in place. And I keep reading articles
and seeing things online about how AI is like out
smarting certain things. And so now I'm afraid that, Okay,
we put these safety measures in place, but AI is
going to be smarter than the safety measures, and so
(10:04):
what is that What risk does that pose to the user.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
That sort of is in alignment with the movie I
was just talking about too, Like there's just things that
happened where you're like, oh.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Shoot, it's like the Santa Claus three or whatever. Do
you remember you have ever seen it when he's a robot?
Speaker 4 (10:18):
I don't know that I made it so three?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Oh, I love the original Santa Claus of scrap.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Okay, well in I don't know if it was exactly three.
It could have been four, honestly, But there was one
where they made like a alternate Santa I forget why,
and he ended up taking over and had all these
like robot guys with him.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
So there's no elves and stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Well, there are, the elves are there, but he like
created this own like little army. I think I haven't
seen it in a couple of years. But the whole
point of it is they created this to help them
fix a problem or find a solution to something, and
then it became smarter than everybody else and was actually
creating more more problems, so.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Well that they have more risks there.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
The AI the.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Claude, what is I don't I've heard Claude is that.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
It's just a different It's different than chat GPT, so
same mightia. Yeah, yeah, there's just different. I guess people
that produce it. I don't know the proper way to
say it, but you know, okay, different creators, Yes, sort
of like meta has Facebook and Instagram and it's like
the umbrella of where it comes from. And then you know,
(11:31):
what are the some other social Twitter is a different
I get it.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, yeah you can. You can read that.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
I was like, I don't know how to explain this.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Privacy concerns. Your most vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Thoughts aren't going into a database. Okay, how did that
not come out of my head? That is terrifying. There's
no hippo laws with AI.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
It can accidentally reinforce delusions or unhealthy healthy thinking if
not prompted. Correct.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
We kind of covered that one.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
And then lastly, no continuity of care or accountability the
way a real therapist relationship provides.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, well so, and so that I think that all
kind of goes into if this is like I need
some tips to help reduce my desire to slam this door,
right like.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
In Sarah's case, I feel like it's like, yeah, like
get a cold ice pack put on your body, Like.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, but that problem could also be a symptom of
a bigger problem that isn't then being addressed when you're
talking to this and you wouldn't know the questions to
ask AI to get to that actual root issue. So
for symptom management, it's probably fine. Just like again, we
could google what are some tips to help reduce my anxiety?
(12:46):
I could google that before AI was a thing, and
I'm sure there are a million articles came up or
podcasts or whatever, and so that's kind of similar, so
that I don't have a problem with. But I think
Sarah has a good head on her shoulders where she
like this helped me with this? Is that? Okay, I'm
going to also go take care of this and get
an actual therapist.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
What I just typed in is slamming doors healthy?
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Well?
Speaker 4 (13:11):
I wanted to know what I'm saying now. I'm just curious.
I just typed in, is slamming doors healthy?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Well? I wanted to know what I'm saying now, I'm
just curious, is this AI?
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Uh huh?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
It says when it becomes a problem, if slamming doors
is used to intimidate someone else, when it becomes a
pattern instead of actually processing the emotion, when it scares
people around you, especially kids, and when it's a substitute
for actually communicating what is wrong. So why did you
throw something the other day, and what was it?
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Well, it actually wasn't the other day. It was in.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
November, November of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Yes, I could have swore a minute ago you said
I threw something the other.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Felt the other day, but I couldn't lie. I had
to be honest. It wasn't the other day. I haven't
been feeling angry the last through my pregnancy. I feel
like I've been feeling pretty positive. It was about how much?
What do I want to say about this? I threw
a shoe at the wall and that nothing broke, and
(14:34):
it did feel really good, and I think it was helpful.
I probably would not encourage anybody to do that. I
wish that I had like punched a pillow or something
like that to get that urge out, but I was
struggling with some changes that I was going through. Keep
in mind, I also had just come off of an
(14:54):
egg retrieval, so who knows what was going on in
my body, and I was frustrated and there was no
solution to my problem. So I just needed to like
release some of that energy. So again, I don't recommend
anybody throwing a shoe at a wall, but I did
feel really good.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
You could throw it at I'd be worried about messing
up the drywall.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah, obviously I'm not that strong.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
You could throw it, like on the floor as hard
as you possibly could if you needed to.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
My therapist at one point years ago, sometime in the
last few years told me to get ice cubes and
go outside and throw them.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, which is what I would tell somebody to do,
is go outside and throw or again, punch a pellow
or something like that. But I so you punch a
pillow exercise, it's the same I just punching a pillow.
But you're not going to break your fist by punching
your pillow and you're not gonna hurt anything, just like
screaming into a pillow or something like that. So do
(15:54):
as I say it, not as I do.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
So you just grab the pillow and have it on
the bed and like punch it with your fists.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Sure doesn't have to be on a bed, put on
a couch, put on a chair. You have somebody hold it. Oh,
and then you're just really you don't do it to
their face.
Speaker 5 (16:13):
Okay, I'm curious something or slammed the door. It's been
a minute, Okay, thank But I've thrown things. Yeah, yeah,
I've slammed milk. I've talked about that.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Before, and like a jug of milk, and milk was flying,
I went flying everywhere.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Did it feel good?
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Felt real good?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
And then you have to clean it.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
But then I was like cleaning up milk and then
finding it like on the cabinet days later, I'm like, oh, great,
it wasn't worth it, And that that one I'm not
proud of because that was in front of my kids.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Everybody, as may Sarah says, everybody makes mistakes, yes, So
that readys to be perfect in that stuff, especially because
when you're to the point where you're doing that, you've
already passed like your window of tolerance where you're not
making rational decisions. So if I before I got to
that point, was like, I'm getting really frustrated and upset.
(17:08):
I know this is bubbling up. I need to go
release some of this. Then I could have gone and
got some ice cubes or something and gone to my
backyard and really said yes. But I let myself get
to the point because I think I was trying to
hold it together versus actually acknowledging what was going on
inside of me.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
You know, all right, we have our voicemail that I'm
going to recap what it is.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Okay, again, the listener.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Left us this, but in order to keep them mononymous,
here's what they were saying. She's got three sons, including
a set of twins. One of the twins has cut
off her and her husband, insisting they never gave him
the same opportunities as his brothers, which she says is
simply not true. She has tried to have the conversation.
(17:54):
She's apologized for anything that may have made him feel
this way, and even had family members reach out, but
he's not budging. So again, the overall theme of this
is her son. What's that called?
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Well, he's severed the relationship, But what's it called?
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Like kids he's cutting off?
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Is strange?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Strange?
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, But isn't there a thing when like kids are
doing it? There's it's like a thing Oprah was talking
about it. It's like a whole thing.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Cutting them off. I mean, is this a simple word
that I just can't like come up with?
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Strange? Is it? But I feel like there's another word
that's associated with it too, that Oprah was like having
the Oprah was having the person a bunch of the
kids caring on.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
What does Oprah call kids cutting Oprah?
Speaker 4 (18:42):
But Okay, back to what she was saying.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
She raises an interesting point about how social media is
playing a role in estrangement, noting that algorithms tend to
feed and reinforce that decision once someone goes down that path.
She said, it is heartbreaking beyond words, and wonders which
version of him was real, the one who sent thirty
years of loving Mother's Day cards or the one who.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Has now walked away.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
She's not asking him to agree with her version of
events and what has happened. She just really wants her
son to meet in the middle so they can move forward,
because his decision is breaking up their family. She's praying,
staying open and looking for any insight on advice on
how to navigate this.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, I think this is becoming a I don't know
if phenomenon feels like the wrong word, because that feels
like almost a positive word. But this is becoming pervasive.
I think in I can only speak.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
To going no contact.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Oh yeah, ye, yeah, no contact, Yeah yeah, going no
contact is becoming very trebling. Yeah, I think you saying
trendy is exactly it.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
No, because it was what Oprah did a whole special
trend about going no contact, and that is what I
was looking for.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
I googled it.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
We found it.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yay s you google what is Oprah call?
Speaker 3 (20:06):
I googled Oprah child estrangement and then it brought up
articles about going no contact.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah so, and you've probably seen this on Instagram and
all that. I mean, you saw the Oprah thing. Oh
see that this is the thing, and she's right and
what she's saying about. Social media has impacted this. I
think the use of therapy speak and therapy terms and
all of that on TikTok and Instagram and I mean
(20:33):
podcasts all that. People are putting really good information out,
but it's being overgeneralized and then it's being reinforced because
if you watch one video about this, you're going to
see another one and your brain is going to start
to turn and move and shift towards thinking like, oh,
that's me. Because especially you see videos that are like
(20:54):
if this happened to you, that means this is what's
going on and you need this, And the videos are
doing what they set out to do, you know, get
people to pay attention and listen and follow and all that,
but it's changing our brains. And just how we were
talking about with the difference between like an AI therapist
and going to a therapist somebody talking about an idea,
(21:17):
which we do this too, So I want to hold
ourselves accountable for this as well. Talking about an idea
and teaching something through social media or what have you
is very different than listening to somebody's specific story to
see what actually is going on. And so if you
get if you match with like two of the things
that somebody is saying, like this is what it takes
(21:39):
to go no contact, or if these things are happening
in your family, you should go on no contact, or
your relationship is toxic or whatever like that, stuff like that.
If you match with two of those things, then you
start listening and then you're like, well, maybe I match
with that other one, and I can see how that
other one would fit too, when your brain is kind
of doing some mental gymnastics to do that, you know,
(22:01):
so I think the combination of and this is all
to say, I don't know this family, so he very
well well may have every right to go no contact.
And maybe you guys just see things very differently. I
don't want to speak on that because I don't have
any of that information, but I do want to empathize
with the mom about this is something that is happening
(22:23):
and there's not a solution right now. It honestly feels
like it's getting worse. There's this term called safety safety
ism that basically is saying that it used to be
like being safe was, you know, free from physical danger,
and now it's being shifted slowly. We started giving information
(22:47):
about emotional safety and our nervous systems and regulation and
all that, and so now safety has turned into a
term that people, I think combine with not feeling uncomfortable.
And so if we confuse safety and comfort, then we
will end up pushing away very normal things that happen
(23:11):
in relationship. It's very very normal to have rupture in relationship.
It's very very normal to be hurt by a rupture. Rupture.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Okay, I was clarifying. I thought that's what you said,
but I wanted to make sure you were saying.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah, rupture, which is like or conflict. It's very normal
to have arguments with your parents. It's very normal. I
love my parents. There are things that in my childhood.
I'm like, I wish this was different, or this is
this was messed up and they don't agree, or there's
there's stuff there, But that does not equal that my
(23:45):
parents are not safe and not good people and don't
love me and I can't have a relationship with them.
And so that, I think is where we are. We're
instead of learning how to have some internal boundaries, or
learning how to sit with the discomfort, or learning how
to have healthy confrontations with people, we're just like, well,
you did this to me and that's toxic, and so
(24:09):
I'm cutting you off. You don't deserve my time and
attention because we aren't used to being able to sit
with discomfort. Which I say this a lot. I'm sure
I've said it on here before that oftentimes we're the
safest when we're uncomfortable, and so it's really problematic to
(24:29):
assume those things have to live side by side. They're
very very different. Now, Sometimes we experience discomfort when we
are unsafe. Most people probably would. That doesn't mean that
every time we feel discomfort we are unsafe, right.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Yeah, safety ism, that's a new one for me.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
I don't know that that's not like a term that's
going to be in a psychological dictionary. I think that
comes from is it.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
An urban dictionary?
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Do you ever look stuff up there?
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (25:05):
But I hope that that is. I don't know what
it would be an urban dictionary. I think it might
have a different look it up. I'm sure it has
a different.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
Safety safety isism.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Okay, refers to a culture or belief system in which
safety has become a sacred value, which means that people
become unwilling to make trade offs demanded by their practical
and moral concerns.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Okay, that's pretty close.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Another, because urban dictionary gives you different things, it says
basically means that we are putting a safety in children. Wow,
these kids are so soft. Maybe if the world wasn't
so full of safetyism, we wouldn't have this.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yeah, okay, So basically what's happening is we're being taught
like never to feel hurt or anxious or misunderstood, and
when those things happen, that is bad, and we must
(26:12):
create these like very rigid boundaries versus exploring when those
things happen and learning how to cope and handle them.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Something popped in my head when you were talking about
you see like two of the seven things listed.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
If you've got two, you're like, oh.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
This is me.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
That makes me think of ADHD. And a lot of
the self diagnosis that happens online or everyone seems to
be claiming it, which I'm sure a lot of people
have it, and that's fine. When like you really have it,
and then you see everybody just casually throwing it around,
I'm like.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
And I think that's where there's It's like this double
edged sword where it has been so helpful for people
to learn about ADHD and figure out, oh, I might
have that, and then go explore that and maybe they
get a diagnosis and maybe they get.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Help actually diagnosed.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Well. On the flip side of that is that people
see that that don't have it and are just like, oh,
that's me. And then now whether they I don't want
to say this as a blanket, but it can then
be used as a crutch for them. I was like, well,
I have ADHD. So I'm like, well, that's not the
point of diagnosis is to just excuse certain things. It's
to give you information so you can figure out what
you need and understand yourself better. And so yeah, it's
(27:33):
the double edge that I fight with. I mean, we've
had conversations about this all the time. There are moments.
This hasn't happened in a while, but for a couple
of years, every like six months, I was like, I'm
shutting down my Instagram and I'm deleting this podcast, the
old podcast that I used to have. You need therapy
because I'm part of the problem. But that's also not
(27:54):
the solution, because you need voices that are kind of
in the middle to separate from the extreme voices that
are saying if you have all this, this is who
you are, follow me and buy my program.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Well, you weren't selling a program.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
I was. You weren't a part of the problem.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Well, I also trust me.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
I've told Kat like she could put together a really
good course and like sell it. She was like, I'm
not not doing a course. I have no interest in
doing a course. I don't want to do a course.
I don't want to sell a course.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Like I Yeah, you were hot on me doing a course.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
I wouldn't describe it as hot on you. I just
saw these and this was this was a few years ago.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Yeah, yeah, I just thought, why are you doing good
for you?
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Because I was seeing all these other people do it now,
I feel like it's courses galore out there, and any Tom, Sally,
Jim Suzie has a course and you don't. I mean,
who knows what's even in that course? And did they
write it or did a I write it?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Speaking of courses, Oh.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
What, I just well, let me finish.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
I saw it.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
I just thought you were I wanted you're trying.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
I know how good you are at this sort of thing,
and I'm like, you should do a course like this
would be good for you.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
I thought you would.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
And then I'm glad you used to your grounds and
you didn't want to do your course, And that's fine.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
There are probably some great courses in the world.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
I just feel like it would stress me out to
not be able to have that if the course was
a live course and I could interact.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
With the people like that makes me think of Ali
Fallon's courses, for example, and because not again, yeah, we
should preface. The courses can be good. It depends on
what you can put into them and how you're operating them.
But she would every week there was live zoom calls
and everybody's on there and she's hands on. I think
my cousin has even had a course with some of
(29:44):
her stuff, and she meets with the people regularly.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
I guess some that yeah, I bought.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
You did her course.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
I did lease this course. I work the noise.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Like six years ago.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I was a guest with her because she did she
did cohorts, so like you would do the course together,
and I did like a group call with them. So
it's a course, but it's not. They're interacting to and
having actual conversations.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
Right whereas some courses.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
You're it's just information and getting.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
The yeah, and you don't have this interaction, which some
of those might be great too. I don't want to
be like dogging on all the courses. I just I
believed in you.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
I thought you could do it. You had no interest,
which is fine.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Thanks.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Okay, what else you were going.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
To say something I was gonna say speaking of courses. Okay,
I tried to do a course yesterday and I could
not get through it. I'm doing a birth in class online.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Don't recommend what you recommend.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
You should do it in person.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Or maybe just just I could be just my course
that I chose, but I think that in person definitely
would help, because one I fell asleep at one point
and my husband fell asleep at another point. But it
was just like cheesy, you know, you know, it felt
like it was from the nineties, and like it's something
that I would watch in school that your teacher is like,
(31:02):
write down three facts you learn during this to make
sure you're paying attention. I had my notes out at
the top of my notepad. I wrote birth class. Guess
what else? I wrote nothing. I didn't take any notes,
So if anybody has a good birth class recommendation. I
thought we were gonna be learning about baby care, but
(31:23):
it ended up being like.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Not that. So I thought a book you don't know,
I'm sleep You're like me about a lot.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Of it is just about and maybe we haven't gotten
it to it yet, but a lot of it was
just about like pregnancy, and I'm like, well, I'm through
behalf of this. So where's the like how to give
a baby a bath part, you know, which I do know.
You don't give them a bath until a full body bath,
until the umbilical chord comes.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
Off, and then they can take their little sink bath.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yeah, and you put them, yeah in a little I
got a little bathtub.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
That's cute. Yeah, your nursery's coming along. It looks really good.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Thanks.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Well, how much we're down, We're getting down to it?
Not two months?
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Uh yeah, I think sa I'm thirty weeks.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
I think like, yeah, or less than two months.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Because I'll probably give birth early.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
So yeah, are you gonna have people come up to
the hospital or no.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
So I've been talking about this with Patrick. I believe
that I will not want that. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Okay,
I'm sorry. Do you get to apologize? Okay, that is
totally fine.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Well you made like a because.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
I was just I'm just being around with you.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
I get it. Or I think what I might do
is have my family will come, I'm sure. But also
I don't know how long you're at the hospital, so
like maybe it would won't.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Matter as soon as well, I don't know. I think
it varies for everybody, but I think you'll want to
get out of there as soon as.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
Possible, say you can be dish charged.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
But I'm even toying around with the idea of like
not having visitors for two weeks.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Okay, I've heard of that.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Just because I'm anxious about germs and I know myself
this is really coming from me. I can't control myself
so around a baby, you know, like I just want
to like squeeze it and kiss it, and like, you know,
do you get that way?
Speaker 4 (33:26):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I don't, So I just don't want to also be
worried about like did they wash their hands long enough,
or like they kissed the baby, like what if? Or
having to say to somebody you can't come because you've
been doing this, but like this other friend could come.
I'm just gonna make a blanket. I think we're gonna
wait two weeks. This also could change because I might
(33:47):
be like, I don't care. I want my friends to
see this baby. I might be at Target a week later.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
I doubt it.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
I won't be a target, but not That's what I'm
thinking is gonna happen. But I was hoping this birth
course would give me more information about that, and I
just it didn't.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Well, yeah, you don't know if it did, because you
fell asleep. We did get another email. This isn't a question,
but it's just something since we're talking about births. I'll
added in because it's over the last several weeks, we've
had random Twilight birth stories ever since We brought that
up a while back, and a listener sent an email saying,
(34:28):
your discussion on twilight births made me remember a funny
story my mom told me. My mom was a nurse
and in nineteen sixty two, she was a one year
out of nursing school and pregnant with her first baby.
She had done rotations in nursing school and labor and
delivery and witnessed the effects of the medication used during
twilight births. She said that she did not want to
give birth not being aware of what was happening.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
She wanted to be present.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
She did not like feeling out of control or want
to be embarrassed not knowing how she behaved during delivery.
So she found a doctor that would allow her to
give birth naturally with no medication. But the doctor told
her very curtly that if she made one peep during delivery,
he would immediately give.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
Her the twilight medication.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
She was so determined that she bit her lip and
did not make one sound of the entire delivery. Needless
to say, my mom was not only strong but stubborn.
She gave birth to seven of her nine babies naturally.
The last two twins ended up as an emergency c section.
She ended up becoming a Letmama's instructor in the seventies
(35:35):
and eighties, teaching expecting parents about childbirth and what to
expect and all the natural methods they can do to
reduce medical interventions.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
Love your show, that's not allowed?
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Wait, what did you just saying that that's like a consent?
Don't you have to consent to take medication if you're coherent?
Like I can refuse things.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Well, this was in sixty two, Like women weren't Like
you couldn't even get a credit card or I open
your own bank account without your husband's signature.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
You probably couldn't buy a house by yourself.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Without your dad or your husband.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I need to ask because my mom was born in
nineteen sixty three. I want to ask her. Her Mom's
not still alive, but I wonder if she if that
was a thing for her, for my grandma. I didn't
think about my grandma. I mean, we've been talking about
this for weeks, but I think about this was like
my grandma's time of having kids.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Yeah, I wish I could ask my mom about it,
or even my grandma. My aunt's so alive, I might
need to call her. But some of this stuff yet
it doesn't make you think about when my mom got
with my dad in the seventies.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
She couldn't.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
My own mom couldn't go open a bank account.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Your mom couldn't, well, yeah, women couldn't.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
She was my mom was woman like.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
No, I think, I'm I'm when were women allowed to
open bank accounts? Do we know?
Speaker 3 (37:04):
We need to fact check it late late seventies or
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Let me Because my mom got married in nineteen eighty four,
I think surely she could have a credit card by then.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
Well, credit cards weren't as popular back then too.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Yeah, I guess so, well, could she have a bank account?
Speaker 3 (37:22):
That's sure sure looking account that we when could women
open their own bank account without a man? Women were
allowed to open checking accounts by themselves in nineteen seventy
four with the passage of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act,
(37:43):
which prohibited credit discrimination based on gender. Before this, many
banks required a male co signer for women to access
banking services.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
So for Trivia.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Night, it would be the Equal Credit Opportunity Act of
nineteen seventy four, for sure, remember that.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
But that's crazy. But I also am just thinking about, like,
in general, how women were treated. I would not want
to be be giving birth back then, if women didn't
even have the right to refuse or the right to
make decisions. Like I'm getting very overwhelmed right now because
I have to have a birth plan and I downloaded
(38:22):
like a template from online somewhere, and it was all
these things that I have to decide that I am like,
I don't It's so many decisions that I don't understand
that I'm like, I'll do this later, which is a
better problem to have then Back then, you weren't allowed
to make any decisions. It sounds like, well, I'm sure
there were some, but you just had to.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
Have the male co signer, like you couldn't do.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
So what if your husband was like, you will be
giving a twilight birth and I was like I want one, yeah,
I mean, or like you will be getting an epidural
and I wanted to have a natural birth, Like you
don't get to make that decision. Versus if my husband
gave any input about what I'm allowed to do and
not allowed to do during birth or labor, he would
(39:10):
not be in the room with me, you know, Like
I get to actually decide is he allowed to be
in the room or not? He didn't just get to
be there powerful.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Okay, this guy just popped into my head because this
was a viral clip that I was seeing it on
social media everywhere.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
But it could have just been my algorithm. So let
me know.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
If you saw the guy, the young husband praying with
his young wife and his baby for his wife's period.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Did you see that? Wait? Is this the thing? Everything?
Speaker 4 (39:45):
Okay he was stitching it or wait?
Speaker 1 (39:46):
But is this the thing where I saw something else
where somebody was going viral for It was something to
do with like refusing fertilities. They were just praying to God.
This must have been something.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
I don't know if they're the same couple.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
This is. They're sitting on the bed, they're holding the baby,
and they've he's set up the camera. The husband is
very much a performative Christian. I'm not challenging his faith.
Maybe a lovely person. I'm not even gonna say who
he is because but I watched it enough with my
own eyeballs to get the biggest ick as a Christian myself.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Yeah, the biggest ick.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Like I felt for his wife and I felt for
his baby, and I'm like, I mean to give grace
because like he maybe means well, and he's grown up
in an era of like maybe he's a document or
he likes to film himself doing things. So he set
up a camera to film their prayer time. So he
(40:56):
set up a camera to film their prayer time. And
I'm paraphrasing, but imagine the camera is him his wife.
They're kind of holding their baby. The baby's awake, moving around.
She doesn't know it's for a time. But he's like, Lord,
I just pray for Brenda, Brenda's period. You know that
(41:16):
she would able, she would be able to be productive
today and.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
Not be lazy.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
Not what I that, you know, I can't even the
words don't even come to me to reenactivity said is
just so not normal for me. But he was almost
like putting little digs at his wife. But he said
lazy and the name of the devil sort of well
I don't know if he said, but he was giving
those vibes. I got a paraphrasing, but it had that energy,
(41:46):
so it's not that far off. But he was putting
it as though it's you know, of the devil. But
his wife is like laying in bed and pain, but
like the Lord is gonna prevent that so his wife
can be up and being productive with her day and
that her period doesn't win. Like, the whole thing was
so awkward. I wish I had a transcript of it
(42:07):
so I could just read it to you, because you
would get back of this.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
But I probably i'll watch it later. I'll probably get
really angry versus like, hey, honey, what do you need today?
I know you're you might be on your period, and
I know that makes things tough, and I don't know
what that's like because I've never had a period. It's
actually a major thing that goes on in your body.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
None of that or how show how can I can
be of servos to her?
Speaker 1 (42:34):
And that poor poor wife?
Speaker 4 (42:38):
Oh well, yeah, she was sitting there right along with
the part.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
I mean she they were young, Like I was just thinking,
oh gosh, I just do not I mean yeah, I
just googled it and there's so many videos. I'm looking
at the comments of one YouTuber that posted it. What
I hate about this era is the performative nonsense. God forbid,
(43:04):
the wife of the wife appliance isn't working at full
capacity for a few days. Wives are not applying.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Also, like why are we posting? What was his m
O for posting that.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Someone else put in the comments? It's ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
I'm on my period, but my husband's going to put
up a tripod.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
In him record.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Then he's kind of pray.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
This is maddening. Yeah, that's wild. I mean it really
was like, you have nothing else to do but to
film this prayer? And what was he thinking? I guess
what I think he.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Thought he was being genuinely helpful in a good okay.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
Stewart, like a good partner, good steward.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Of the lord, obedient like here, I am as the
man of this house, taking care of my home.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
For when like he could just like cook her dinner,
you know.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
Right, Like that's how he could, like if she does
need to stay in better shoes. Oh oh oh, I
wonder if I could just turn this up.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
It's flying pain and we like to start her period
in prayer.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Oh sure, this is the person breaking it down.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Oh dang, I'm going to start my period in prayer.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Uh yeah, I'm going to start her period in prayer.
And so this is someone on YouTube named Destiny who
is breaking down the husband's period prayer, so I thought
it was going to play the whole video.
Speaker 4 (44:43):
That's a skipping commentary. Dang, dang, dang.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
I'm sure we can all search that now if no,
but if people you haven't seen it, I'm going to
be searching that. I don't know if I should search
it because I think it will just bring me anger,
and you know, I don't want to be thrown to
shoes at the wall again. Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
I wish does nobody where's AI out for this? I
just asked for the transcript. I googled it. I googled
Christian man praying for wife's period viral video online transcript.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Has he taken it down?
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Though?
Speaker 1 (45:13):
I feel like maybe he might have taken it down.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
I don't know because I don't follow him, but I
did mosey on over to his account at one point
when I think I realized, like, oh, this is his
actual page, and there were a lot of videos of
him in the car talking about nonsense, you know, sharing
his wisdom and insight. And I think he's from what
(45:37):
I gather I am generalizing, I would think he would
see all of this as he's needs to keep it up.
This is the devil and he needs to stay the course, okay,
because he's doing the right thing, and of course there's
gonna be resistance, right.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
That's just that's the mental gymnastics you do.
Speaker 4 (45:58):
Just the vibe that I was getting.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
I don't think he's gonna be like, oh gosh, maybe
I need to reconsider.
Speaker 4 (46:04):
I think he's the type that might be like, oh,
we need to double down.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
The devil's working harder.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
Yeah, so we're gonna pray for your period every month
like this. Okay, Well, sorry, that was a little bit
of a mess of me trying to explain that and
even play that video back. But you saw that I
got the vine there, Yeah, yeah, got it. I don't
know we would get into that, or obviously i'd be
a little more prepared with it. But it's it was
(46:28):
weeks ago that it was viral. I'm so shocked you
didn't see it.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
No, I've seen some other that's first of all, my
algorithm is still so messed up right now that I
sometimes don't even enjoy being on social media. It's all
like what to pack in your hospital bag. And you know,
those videos have been making me cry and you can
only watch so many of them. But I've been seeing
I've seen videos of the like, but nothing that bad. Bad.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
Yeah, frustrating. Frustrating might be the worst.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
And I just felt for the wife and I again,
I'm going to go I'm going to err on the
side of like, he had good he has good intentions.
Speaker 4 (47:08):
They're just young.
Speaker 3 (47:09):
Well.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
And also, I should say this because I probably sound judgmental,
that if that works for their family, if that's what
she wants, and she has full autonomy to think for
herself and she has options and choices and all of that,
then I good for her. Different strokes for different folks.
Speaker 4 (47:32):
YEA, thank you for saying that for both of us.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yes, I said that, yeah, and that would not work
for me, and that there's a lot of I think
problems that could arise from that kind of thinking working
for me. I'm treading carefully. I just want to make
sure that she like knows that she deserves to be
(48:01):
taken care of when or take care of herself when
she's having a.
Speaker 4 (48:04):
Physical reaction to her period.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
Yeah, it's like physical emotional reaction. It's like I just
prayed it.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
There's countries that get paid leave when they're on their period,
like they we wouldn't be having that if it wasn't
a thing. I think in our neck of the woods,
it's really really and part of that is because people
don't understand it. I didn't understand what was happening in
my body until recently. It's an actual major thing that happens.
(48:38):
And if you're feeling something, you don't have to like
gaslight yourself out of it. And I don't use that
term lightly, but I think for a while in my
life I was like, Oh, it's no big deal, and
I want to be a baby tough enough. It's just
your period.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Oh. I know for a fact if men were the
ones having the period, it would be different.
Speaker 4 (49:00):
How gross, Well, no, it would be probably more.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
It wouldn't be Oh, we would be very accommodating to it.
We wouldn't no choice.
Speaker 3 (49:09):
They and but they would know everything is gross because
part of what they do. And then they if they
were in pain that much, there would be a system like, yes,
there would be a way to support them and they
would have time off. And this isn't me being a
man hater. I just think I'll get the email like
why is Amy so hating against them? I actually don't
hate man.
Speaker 4 (49:28):
I love men. I have a son, I love my son.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
I have a brother.
Speaker 4 (49:32):
I love my brother. I loved my dad.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Yeah, I had a boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
I loved him.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
I'm not anti men.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
Men think different.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
Yeah, And it's not the men that were like, it's
not the men that I'm talking about in our lives.
I'm talking about, Like the.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Man you're talking about. The patriarchy is what you're talking yes, like.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
Just like like the system, Yes, the system it would
be like there would be it would be way more
accommodating to periods if men were the ones with the periods.
Just just think about it.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
You could take your little credit card that you've been
able to have.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
Since nineteen time.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
Then you would go by yourself, some min doll and
a heating pad and you would take a week off work. Well,
tampons would probably be free, yeah for sure.
Speaker 4 (50:22):
Might all would be free.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Yeah yeah, free heating pad for you, Free heating pad
for you.
Speaker 3 (50:28):
Yeah. Anyway, Well there you go. You can hit us
up via email or voicemail. Hey, they're at Feeling Things
Podcasts at gmail dot No.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
What I can't think it's okay, we're all riled up.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
Hey they're at Feeling Things podcast dot com.
Speaker 1 (50:49):
Good job.
Speaker 3 (50:50):
Hey they're at Feeling Things podcast dot com.
Speaker 4 (50:53):
Yep, one more time.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
I was gonna want to say it again.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
Hey, they're at Feeling Things podcast dot com. And then
our phone number is eight seven seven two O seven
two O seven seven, and we hope you have the
day you need to have.
Speaker 5 (51:06):
Bye.
Speaker 3 (51:06):
Bye,
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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