The Kennedy rabbit hole continues…and this time a listener connects Rosemary Kennedy's story to the Special Olympics and Best Buddies International, and it's genuinely beautiful. Plus, a powerful anonymous email from a wife who has spent years trying to "fix" her husband's depression and is finally learning she can't. And because we can't always be deep…who is your "Puma"? The random internet stranger you'd absolutely lose your mind over if you saw them in real life?
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Kat Van Buren // threecordstherapy.com // @KatVanburen
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
While we hope Couch Talks can be a tool that
helps and supports wherever you are in life, Couch Talks
does not serve as a replacement or substitute for therapy
or any mental health services.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
A right break it down. If you ever have feelings
that you just falls home, Amy and Cat gotcha covin
like and no, brother ladies and fellas, do you just
follow an the spirit where it's all us front or
real stuff to the chill stuff and the m but Swayne,
Sometimes the best thing you can do it just stop
(00:33):
you feel things.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
This is Feeling Things with Amy and Kat.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Happy Thursday. Welcome to a Couch Talks our Q and
a episode of the Feeling Things podcast. I'm Amy and
I'm Kat, and We've got an email today that has
a very very specific question. Before we do that, I'm
going to go back a couple of weeks to an
episode where you shared.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
With us a fun but sad son take the fun out?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Well, I know, but it's like fun fact, did you
know so sad fact about the Kennedy family? And I've
got an email from someone that sort of turns the
whole lobotomy situation into a positive because why don't you
summarize what you told us in case people didn't hear
that episode, which probably is nobody because I know everybody
(01:21):
listens to every.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Single episode, so this will probably be redundant. It was
about Rosemary, right, Yes, so she was the eldest or
the youngest. She was one of the I think she
was the eldest daughter of the Kennedy so Jk's sister.
So she had some mental I would call it, because
(01:43):
we don't know what it was, mental instability that worried
the father that it would impact his son's political careers
because it looked bad.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
So they thought, Okay, this lobotomy may help you. And
it turned out he gave her a lobotomy. It turned
out that she had to live in an assisted care
place for the rest of her life.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, they gave her a lobotomy. He didn't even tell
the mom, which you brought up an interesting question about
like did she even want it? Like maybe she was
in on it. We don't know.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Okay, Well, I have some information from Kelsey Rodriguez, who's
married to Mike d on The Bobby Bone Show. Kelsey's
an avid reader and she said she's read multiple books
and listened to multiple books about the Kennedy family. She's
obsessed with Kennedy lore. Did she have Rex recommendations? I mean,
I'm sure you will have to ask her. She replied
(02:39):
to us on Instagram to your Rosemary video, because we
clipped that part of the episode and put it on
Instagram and she just replied to it. So I went
back and found it and she said, okay. But do
you know why she had issues that led to the
lobotomy Because she was born in nineteen eighteen during the
Spanish flu pandemic and the mom's doctor wasn't available, so
he made her close her life legs for two hours
(03:01):
while Rosemary was in the birth canal, depriving her of oxygen. So,
based on what Kelsey shared there, it like some of
her mental things potentially stemmed from her lack of oxygen
to her brain. And when it says he made her
close her legs, I don't know if it's that the
doctor was saying, hey, keep her legs closed, I'll get
(03:23):
there when I can, or if the dad was like,
doctor's not here yet, keep your legs closed.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
That is making me tear up.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, so I know, especially because you now are do
you think you because you are with child. Yeah, if
y'all miss the announcement. On Tuesday's episode, Kat is pregnant
and she's crying.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Right, I'm crying. I am a little wit.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I literally just wiped a tear from your eyes.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
But it hasn't fallen out of my mind. I'm not
I'm tearing up. Okay, that is just sad to think about. Like,
also women back It's making me think a lot of things.
But like even women back then, Like I'm afraid of
birth in general and labor and like imagine somebody being
like keep them closed. It's not like in your body
is saying this is the time.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
And then also the guilt I would have if that
caused my child some kind of issue. So it sounds
like there was like intellectual issues, not so much like
she was just like wild and out of control. Yeah,
I'm not sure. Maybe a little combo so poor girl.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Little history there, which leads us to the now. An
email that we got about a positive that has come
from this negative situation. This is an email we got
from Dana Hey. Amy and kat I listened to the
latest podcast touching on Rosemary Kennedy's lobotomy and wanted to
share with you a positive thing that came out of
(04:48):
this horrible situation. I haven't seen the documentary, so I
don't know if they'll ever mention any of the below,
but as you'll see, some of the detail is based
on my own experience. Her sister is Eunice Kennedy Shriver,
who went on to start the Special Olympics in nineteen
sixty eight because of Rosemary. Eunice's son Anthony Shrever. He's
(05:09):
also the brother of Maria Shreiver, the ex wife of
Arnold Schwarzenegger, then went on to start Best Buddies International
about thirty years later. This is an organization that provides
a variety of opportunities to individuals with intellectual disabilities, starting
in high school and college, then throughout the rest of
their life, from simple buddy friendships, housing with others, job coaching, etc.
(05:30):
I'm lucky enough to be familiar because my company, Son Communities,
where I am Director of Talent Acquisition, has sponsored numerous
events and partners four opportunities within our organization. I have
hired one of their buddies directly on my team as
an onboarding coordinator. I attended the Best Buddies Friendship Conference
a couple of years ago, where I met incredible individuals
(05:52):
including Madison Tevlyn and Matthew Vonderre who star alongside Woody
Harrelson in Champions, which is an awesome movie by the way,
and Kennedy Garcia, who plays Felicity on Days of Our Lives.
Just that I share some of the positive that has
come from what Rosemary endured, Nana, So there you go.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, that makes me feel I mean.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
It's now possible.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yeah, it makes I don't feel better that it happened.
But like for somebody, from my understanding, from like the
little research I did, it felt like everybody like ignored
Rosemary after it happened, and so to know that her
sister started this in her honor, Yeah, yeah, they're so
good in the world.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
There. Okay, we got the email now that has a
specific question for us, and she didn't say remain anonymous.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
But I would keep her anonymous. I did that.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I deleted her. Yeah, so here you go from anonymous. Hi,
Amy and kat I've been married sixteen years with kids.
On the outside, my husband is seen as strong and stable,
just as I believed when I married him. But what
people don't know is that he struggles with anxiety at work,
which often leads to depressive episodes. I felt like I've
(07:04):
carried this burden, especially after a recent business crisis that
triggered a bad depressive loop of half a year already.
I've only recently come to terms with the fact, no
matter how supportive I've tried to be, I can't control
or fix his depression. Before I had this sense that
I could help or change things through my actions. Now
(07:27):
I know I can't, and that realization is hard to accept.
I'm struggling with how to cope with this. I'd really
love to hear your perspective and also understand how I
can better deal with having a spouse who's struggling with this.
It's so hard and I feel so lonely.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
That's a hard sentence, Yeah, I know. I feel like
a lot of times in situations like this, when there's
what we would call like I identified patient who would
be the identified like sick one in the family or
the one with the identified issue, what happens is that
everybody else kind of gets ignored because that issue trumps
(08:09):
everybody else. And then also there's some guilt associated with well,
this person can't help that they're struggling, so it feels
bad for me to have feelings about it, right, you know,
which is fair to have that feeling, but it's not
you know how we say, like all feelings are valid,
but not everything's justified. Like that doesn't make sense, Like
(08:30):
you're experiencing something too, and this is hard on you too.
And so the issue that often happens in families like
this is that identified patient, like I said, gets all
the attention, they get, all the help, they get, all
of the support. Everything's focused on them. And while we're
rescuing that person or helping or foregoing our own needs,
we forgot our own needs and like the things that
come up for us don't get taken care of. It's
(08:53):
it's a form of I think codependency in that, but
I don't think it's necessarily the same because it feels
like so I don't Sometimes I think she's at the point.
What I'm hearing is that she's like, I've been doing
it wrong kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Oh, she's had the realization, like that's what that line
the I've only recently come to terms with the fact,
no matter how supportive I've tried to be I can't
control or fix his depression. That is wonderful awareness. That's
like stepping back from potentially any codependent behavior you've had,
because when we are in our codependent tendencies, which I've
(09:27):
been there in my own home in relationships, I.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Feel as though or I felt as though.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
I could control yeah, the scenario, I could fix the situation,
and it was exhausting.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
But also doesn't I think that that there's a version
of that that almost feels better When it feels like
I can control it. It feels better than like if
I have no control. Sometimes that feels too much so
that letting go can be super hard, oh for sure,
because then it's like, well then what do I do?
And so when you make that transition from I'm like, oh,
I can't control it, there's oftentimes this limbo of like, well,
(10:03):
now what if I can't at least pretend I can
control it, what do I do? Because then it feels
like I'm drowning, you know? And so I have a
lot of especially because she said this is like Newer,
a lot of empathy for her right now in this
moment when she's like, Okay, I've made this huge step,
but now it feels like I'm in an ocean by
myself and I have no floaties, no paddle board, no nothing.
(10:28):
So well, and you can speak to what was helpful
for you, but I recommend anybody who is a helper
also needs to be helped, and so having your own therapist,
Like you might not be struggling with the level of
depression that your husband has, but you still have stuff
that I think deserves its own space, so you can
figure out your needs. Because oftentimes when we're taking care
(10:49):
of somebody else, we literally don't even know what we
our needs are because we're we've just kind of blocked
it all out. So having a therapist and having like
a non negotiable self care routine where like it gets
done no matter what I think, it's so critical.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yeah, I had some of that. I had my own therapists.
I had Now my situation was different than hers. I
had to surrender daily. I had to detach from the
situation with love, so I never felt like I was
detaching from my family or my home. It was part
(11:28):
of it was almost just detaching from even my codependent
behavior with love.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I love that phrase, detached with love. Yeah, because.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
You know I guess I probably think differently because my
situation ended in divorce. But I think even if we
had stayed married, you can detach with love in your yeah,
in your in your marriage that could grow to be
stronger than ever once y'all are on the other side
of this, after proper care is given and healing takes place.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And that's the other thing.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
What I don't know what your spouse is willing to do.
It sounds like on the outside everybody sees him as
let me see what you said, strong and stable. So
if the perception is strong and stable, I don't know
if he wants to keep it that way. And if
therapy is even an option or getting help as an option,
(12:21):
or medication is an option in some sorm, some form
of intervention needs to take place. Is he willing to
do that well?
Speaker 1 (12:30):
And that makes me wonder if he's strong And this
is me taking it in like the most extreme case,
But if he's strong and steady on the outside, does
that mean to everybody accept you? Because you should as
as somebody's partner. Yes, we support our partners, but we
aren't the sole supporter. Like we have friends, we have
community that are outside of our like just family in
(12:50):
the household, and so if he is, if he is
under the impression that he needs to maintain that identity
of strong and stable, then that's a lot of pressure
being put on you that you don't deserve to have
and you can't handle. He needs to be reaching out.
So that's a good point.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I feel like my personal experience with depression and me
was circumstantial at least that's how irapy that it was
because of what I was going through was but I
was high functioning at the same time. So like my
therapist at the time, she was a big proponent of
me doing puzzles and bird watching because that was a
(13:42):
way for me to be with my depression in a
healthy way. That makes sense, Like it was good for
my brain to have those moments, but it was a season,
Like I don't sit at my kitchen table staring at
birds and doing puzzles like I did during that season.
I mean, but I would sit there for hours. But
(14:02):
she said that was my that was one of my
tools at the time. Like the puzzling wasn't negative, it
was actually helping my brain. And at the same time
she was like, you sitting there for hours puzzling and
looking at birds was your depression, right?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah? But you also weren't like suffering in a vacuum,
like I feel like people around you that you were
close with new.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
So let's talk about being in a vacuum, okay, because
I hear other people use that phrase a lot and
they're like, well, in a vacuum, this makes sense, And
I'm like, where is this coming from? What can you
explain it to me? I get what you're saying. In
my I wasn't in a bag all by myself. I
had therapists, I had friends, I had a small circle
(14:48):
of people that knew exactly what was going on. So
I wasn't your right alone in my depression. And I
was showing up for work every day sort of like
you could. I wasn't my best self. Yeah, but that's
why to me, when my therapist is like, I think
you've got some depression going on, I was just as
sure I was well taken aback and shocked does if
(15:09):
someone was telling me something else, because I was like, what,
I don't know that I'm depressed. I don't know that
I need to get on anything. And then of course
I got on some well buttrin and it helped me,
and I was on that first season and then I
got off of it in it with medical help. But
I say that because it was it was good for
me for that season. If I ever needed intervention like
(15:31):
that again, I would go back to it. But other
people their chemical makeup, they may need something more long term.
I don't know. It sounds like he had a trigger
through a work event that happened for him, and so
maybe his is brought on by certain stressors and situations
at work. So it could be that for seasons, he
has certain tools that he pulls out of his toolbox,
(15:51):
but we need to get him those tools, well, he
needs to find them. Yeah, we can't do that for him.
You're right, that would be very codependent on me and
I don't I don't even know him.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
But back to the vacuum.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
I personally don't use that, but it sounds good when
other people do, so I want to start using it.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah. I was gonna say, feel you're gonna start using
it now. It just means like sucked in alone, insular, like.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
O insular another word tell me more.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Like you're in this thing alone versus like you're out
in the world. That's how I see it. Yeah, No,
I mean, sure it is.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
I just wanted more background so I can really use
it properly.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah. Well, I think you probably were gonna use You
would have used it probably anyway because you had the
context clues. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
But then other times I hear people just say it's
so cat like when you said it, it was like, hey,
for this circumstances situation, it totally makes sense. I've heard
others use it at times where I'm like, I don't know,
I'm getting the vacuum saying.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
You should call them out, like can you explain that,
because I don't think that works.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yeah, And maybe that's the thing. Maybe how they used
it doesn't work. But in this case, you were not
suffering in a vacuum. I was not, And it looks
like maybe here, yeah, he might be in the vacuum.
And then sometimes she's along for the right Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
And I don't know how their kids are impacted or
just in the home. Like I think of how some
stuff we had going on with my adopted son, like
at school and all day long he was so wonderful,
and at home he would fall apart. And our therapists
explained it to us that like Yeah, by the time
he gets home, he's exhausted, and y'all are the safe space.
(17:25):
So yeah, his teachers have never seen him act this way.
His friends, at other people's homes, he would never he
can't be that vulnerable with them. But at home, that
was his place where he could no longer keep it
together because he's working so hard at school to do
that all day, so he would come home and fall apart.
And so maybe to the outside world, I don't know.
(17:48):
I'm just guessing maybe your husband has on this mask
or this facade, and by the time he's home with you,
his safe place, he's tired, he's exhausted, and the real him.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
When it makes it worse because you're so comes top
of the stuff you're struggling with, you're exhausted of covering up.
And so it's like twofold, yeah, like double So yeah.
Our recommendation I think it sounds like we're on the
same page here, is like you make sure that you're
getting the help that you need because you matter just
as much as your husband does. And if we do
want to be good supports for people, we need to
(18:20):
be taking care of ourselves first, right, And maybe puzzles.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Yeah, like, what's the what's the the comparison people always
give is the oxygen mask come down.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I was trying not to use that so cliche. I
prefer to use things like in a vacuum. Yeah, I
just have a little bit of a higher level of metaphor.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
But yeah, so it's more like, let's get in the car,
buckle yourself up first.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Then you can't buck anyway.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Never mind you have to buckle your baby up first. Dang,
that doesn't work there. What is another analogy? When you're
cooking dinner, make your plate first. When you're all of
this now suddenly gets really selfish.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, none of those other things.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
When you're watching TV, pick the show you want to
watch first, honestly, I do that.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
I see you have your.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Glasses on today, which I think they're so cute. When
you wear glasses, you look so sophisticated and intelligence. That's
probably why you're saying things.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Like in a vacuum and insular.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Insular.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
I got new glasses. I don't have them on right now.
I prove it.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
No, I'll show them to you after.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
But there.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
I was influenced online. I kept getting this commercial which
I think they start to realize what you what come
like if an ad pops up on your feed, if
you how long you watch it, and then if you
click into it, because I've clicked into it before, like
months ago and never ordered any but then i kept
(19:59):
getting the ad over and over and over and I'm like, finally,
and the girl, she looks so cute in these glasses.
They're the sort of like aviators and their gold with
a pink tint, and through the glasses they're regular and
then down at the very bottom they have the magnification.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
But they're pink tinted. Yeah, there's sort of a pink tent.
I'll show them to you. I posted about them a
week ago. I guess you didn't see.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Cool cool. I thought that you saw everything that I posted.
But I had a prescription for progressive type glasses. That's
what they call them. Progressive if you just need a
little bit of help, like straight on, there's no everything,
it's just clear glass. And then down at the bottom
because like readers, you know, have people sometimes to put
it at the tip of their nose and like hold
it down to read. Well, this prevents that that lot.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So this is a reader, but it's doesn't do on
the tip.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
You just kind of have to move your eyes instead
of putting them on your nose, and you look elderly.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
I think it's cute when people do that.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
You just described it cute and like people do that
they're cute and old, which that's me, by the way,
I would have to be doing that. I don't mind
that I'm aging at all whatsoever. I mean, I just
turned forty five yesterday, so I don't mind that.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
I just.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Need a little bit of help. And these seem hip
and cool, and I ordered them and they're making me happy.
My prescription that I had gotten though, I lost those
and I had paid a lot of money for them,
so ordering these from this website it was significantly less.
I don't even remember the company. I think it's like,
look like l Okay, look their prescription. They're not prescription,
(21:39):
like they're readers. Like readers have different magnifications like one,
one point five two, Like it'll just help you if
I need to read the back of a pill bottle
or the a menu at arrest, or a magnifying glass. Yeah,
that's what we like at the gas station. If you
see a thing full of readers. This is how I
know your way younger than me, okay, because you're like, oh,
(22:01):
people look so cute when they have those on. And
then also it's it's just anybody can go by them
like you can at the gas station. You go grab
that reader and you know what magnification your eye needs?
Does it need a little bit of help like a one?
A little little help one point five and a little
little help too.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
You know what are you?
Speaker 3 (22:19):
I'm a one? Okay, I'm still my vision's still kind
of okay, which I'm like, why did I waste money
on getting a prescription?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
That was my question is like was there other prescription
in your prescription ones? Or it was literally just I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
I mean, I guess it was the equivalent by prescription
was the equivalent of a one? Ish, I'm sure it
was more precise to what my eyes needed.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
You're just out here without contacts, And.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yeah, I've I've I don't want to brag, but I've
until this point in my life, the last year, I've
had twenty twenty vision.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
That is crazy and imagine, I just I can't imagine
that much freedom in my life. I've had glasses since
second grade. I've had glasses since second grade.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
That's why I didn't want to brag.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
No, it's okay, that's really cool, Like I hope my
future children are just like you.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Does Patrick have glasses?
Speaker 1 (23:23):
He has just as bad as vision as me. It's
really bad. We're legally blind. So what are the odds that.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
You're like over here?
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Maybe it's you know how like maybe too bad equals
and good yes, cancels each other out.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Too bad eyesight, yeah, equal super eyes.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
But getting contacts or getting I don't get contacts. Getting
glasses in second grade was a little traumatic. Like it's
cool at first because we were like, you get glasses,
but then like you're the kid with it, felt like
I was a kid with glasses, you know, And it's crazy.
I think about this a lot. I didn't know I
couldn't see. I just thought that's how how like the
(24:00):
world looked until I guess I got some eye test,
But like, can you imagine being like eight nine and
I don't know how old you are in those grades,
but six seven, eight nine, and you can't see, but
you just think that's the world, and then when you
put glasses on. I remember getting the glasses and going
to an assembly and being in awe that I could
actually see the people that were talking.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, it was like a hamster race or something. Yeah, late,
but it was humans. No, well, there's people up there
racing the hamsters.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
You're like, And I could see the hamsters, see it.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I thought they were just little balls. Yeah. Yeah, I
wouldn't have known what they are, or I just thought
I would probably be like, is everybody just like watching
a bunch of like fuzzy stuff happening? Like this is
kind of lame.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah, speaking of watching things, I get this account that
pops up. It's like apple Wood Landscaping that.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Bacon No have you ever seen that?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Okay, no, no, no. They're very popular on TikTok and
Instagram and it's these landscapers And I don't know who
was the genius behind the marketing of this or filming,
but somebody on their team sort of filming their landscaping crew.
And they're pretty funny guys, and they do like dance
routines and they'll I mean they'll talk about the landscaping
(25:23):
or the driveway they're putting in or something like they're
a business. They're a legit business. But there's this one employee,
I guess Apple would or applegate Apple something. I don't
even follow them, but I guess again. I watch their
videos long enough to where they showing They keep showing up.
And there's one of the landscapers. His name is Puma,
(25:46):
and he is maybe five foot five feet, little Hispanic guy.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
He's so cute, older, like not cute, like I'm.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Attracted like a no no, no, no no no, but
I'm obsessed with him so much so that if I
saw him in public. And this is what made me
think of it, like you being able to see things
and recognize faces.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Because I'm like, how are you connecting these stories? I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
It just popped in my head whenever we were talking
about it, and I guess just looking at things online
and then seeing people, and I was thinking about how
I would freak out if I saw Puma in the wild,
like if I'd like if and I don't even know
where apple Wood Landscaping or whatever they're called is located,
but like say they got a job at Nashville and
I drove by, like I would recognize Puma. I would
(26:32):
know for a this little hat like I would know Puma,
and I would.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Be like Puma.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
What up?
Speaker 3 (26:38):
You don't know me, but I love your videos and
they make me smile, like he's just funny and down
for whatever, Like I I don't know. I like his energy,
like his vibe, and I'm thinking, yeah, I would recognize
him and would see him.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And imagine if you couldn't matter, I imagine.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
If I couldn't yeah, or if like I forgot my
glasses one day and I'd be driving by and I'd
be like that just like looks like a blob working
on some landscaping. I wouldn't be able to recognize Puma.
So if you're asking how we're tying this together, like
I don't know, that's how. This is how my brain works.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
That makes sense. And it made me think of that
this book that I recently talked about reading Rock Paper Scissors.
I don't I needed to look this up. I never did.
The main character has face blindness. Oh is that? And
so he can't recognize faces, so all faces kind of
like blend together and look the same to him, so
he can Like, he wouldn't know his wife was walking
(27:31):
up to him unless she like said something or there
was some very distinct like her smell or something like that.
But I read that whole book wondering if that was
a real thing. I never looked it up.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Oh it's a real it is. Yeah, face blindness is
definitely a real thing. It's called prosso panngee genesia.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
You got it. Wait, so, I guess my question is,
like in a vacuum, that's what it's called. How does
that work? Because that's not that your eyesight is bad.
It must be something about it means.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
That you're incapable of recognizing anyone even after meeting them.
So Celebrities who are rumored to have face blindness include
Brad Pitt, Steve Wo's niag Jane Goodall. Could she recognize
the monkeys, gorillas, chimpanzees.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Actually, maybe it's different because they're animals.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
I don't know, And I guess they all look sort
of the same.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Stephen Fry and Chuck Close they have spoken about experiencing
face blindness, a neurological condition making face recognition difficult or impossible,
though Brad Pitt hasn't had a formal diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Excuse to cheat on his wife?
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Wait what he e would know? If he's Why would
they cheat you like that? Because she would know through
ear recognition.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Well, I know, but you could be like I didn't
know it wasn't you. She had brown hair. But I'm
not saying I don't know his history of his relationships.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
But do you use that excuse of playing shots fired?
And Brad Pitt?
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Do you know, like do you use excuse of like, oh,
I'm so sorry I didn't remember because you know, I've
talked about like my fear of like somebody not remembering
me and me not remembering them. It's like, well, I
have face blindness. It's not my fault, like right, like
can we Yeah, I can't.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
I don't have to worry about remembering people's names because
I just have face blindness.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
It's not my fault. But okay, I'm interested in that.
I want to do more research on that because I
want to know, like, well, what can they see? Can
they see the difference between like that chair and another chair?
Speaker 3 (29:26):
What can people with face blindness see?
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Let's see what the Google says.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
People with facial blindness see facial features like eyes, noses,
and mouths, but their brain cannot process them into a
recognizable hole, making faces appear interchangeable, blurry, or unfamiliar. Wow,
that's like you with your glasses off, But.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Like, could he see like a bowl of pasta and
recognize it that's different than a salad? You know, That's
what I'm wondering. Okay, let me ask.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Can they tell the difference between pasta and salad or
like a bake z in a chicken palm? That one
might be hard. People with face blindness have normal twenty
twenty vision and can see, identify, and distinguish between objects, foods,
and places perfectly.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Well. Yes, they can easily tell the difference between pasta
and sells. To be specific, I would I wish there's
you could put goggles on that could help well understand this.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
It's I feel like you have experiences back in second
grade before you could see the hamster.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
But I couldn't. I couldn't see the difference between if
you put two pasta dishes in front of me.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Oh true, But I mean I'm just talking about in
the human faces, Like that's what they're experiencing with faces.
Like just imagine if you had that with faces, but
you could.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
I can't see anything right now without my glasses, Like
I don't. I can't see like your nose.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
You cannot see my nose, I see a tan round.
She's saying she can see tan because I put self
on before we started recording it, and I'm very dark
right now.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Let's see.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yeah, it's a very specific condition where the brain cannot
recognize faces.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
So that's all.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
So it's like you when you left up your glasses
and you look at me, but that you put your
glasses on and you look at a salad, you can
see it's But then with humans, no, I wonder if
with like cats and dogs, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
So you know how they make like drunk goggles. I
wish they couldn't make a face blind this goggle so
we could like see what it's like. I feel like
you literally have that. That's what I'm trying to tell
you know, But I don't think it's the same because
because I can't see, like it was saying that he
could see like facial features when I don't have my
glasses on. Oh I can't see.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
You can't see a nose, a mouth. Could you see
my eyeballs?
Speaker 1 (31:55):
There's just like two dark spots. But like I wouldn't
know that. I'm interesting.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
That's great, that's crazy. He's crazy because I'm having a
hard time, like, my poor child. Can people with face
blindness recognize animals? Well, this might help with the Jane
Goodall thing and chimpanzees. Okay, here, I have a visual.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Okay, this is what it's like. I'm going to show
this to cat. Obviously y'all can't see it.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
But if you google, like, okay, can you see how
that one person looks like they have a face and
the other one just like a blur?
Speaker 1 (32:30):
That's like what you see? That's why I see it's okay, okay, okay, right,
you do have your own vocal. That's crazy that that
only shows up on somebody's face, but you know other things.
It's a it's a neurological cure for this.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Yeah, I wonder what bring if like it's you're born
with it, or if a certain traumatic event brings it on,
or if it just one day you wake up and
you're like, I can't recognize faces.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, it's neurological, then I would assume it was.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
It could be both, right, yeah, really wild?
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, Well thanks for looking that up, because that's something
that pops in my head every now and then. But
I keep forgetting to like, actually, and now, the more
you know, the more. You know, if you have face blindness,
send us an email, tell us about it, and if
we're totally off, please correct.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
And we don't want to be insensitive to I'm sure
it's differrible. Yeah, and I don't want to be insensitive
to that. I mean, cap, I just kind of understand
it kind of has a little bit of it.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
But what's interesting is that, like with my like eyesight,
like it can be fixed. So I'm just like, oh,
I wish there was a way to like remedy this.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Oh for them, yes, right, because if they were to
put on glasses, it doesn't solve the problem because they
likely or like they said a lot of times, they
have twenty twenty vision hy Yeah. Yeah, okay, yeah, email us, Hey,
they're at Feeling Things podcast. You can email us, yes,
if you have face blindness, but also if you just
have a question for us, like our anonymous emailer had today,
(34:00):
which I hope that what we said was helpful to
your situation. It's really hard because we never know all
of the details and everything you have going on, but
thank you for opening up and sharing that with us.
I'm sure that also resonated with somebody else listening that
might be in a familiar or similar vacuum.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Did I do it right?
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Situation? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Just kidding.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Y'all can also call us and leave us a voicemail.
Eight seven seven, two oh seven, two oh seven seven.
This is my first time signing off as a forty
five year old.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
How does it feel? Tell us good? Does it feel different? No?
Okay it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Do you feel different today being pregnant?
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Like? Does every day feel different? Like?
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Do you wake up feeling different every day?
Speaker 1 (34:49):
I wake up and I'm like, okay, this is kind
of cool, you know, like when you forget something like
your birthday is coming up, or that you're about to
go into a ca like you forget like good news.
I keep having this experience, and maybe I'm not explaining
it well, but I keep having this experiment experience where
I'm like, why am I happy? And then I'm like, oh, yeah,
(35:11):
I'm pregnant, Like I keep getting like excited about that
I'm growing a baby. Yeah, so I don't feel different
signing off, But like, first of all, I do feel
different because my body is changing at a rapid pace.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
And you're tired, so tired but happy but happy. Tired
and happy and both both and both, and I feel
like my therapist always is like Amy both and both
and both.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
And would she like that impersonation of herself? Would you
say that's accurate?
Speaker 3 (35:44):
No, I didn't mean to sound that. Guess that's how
I'm receiving. I'm like, okay, okay, like I know, she's
just passionate about like being both and amy, like as
a reminder because I know, I know, and I talk
about it, and I took improv and but sometimes just
out of habit, like I when I'll be she'll be
like hold space for hold space for both. And yes, ma'am,
(36:08):
did you not like it?
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Because you're a therapist, you know when people impersonating you.
I was just wondering if that was a dramatic how
do you say that dramatization dramatization or if that's literally.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
No, she's probably like not as I was probably sounding
really urgent.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Yeah, and she's the story.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah, it's a little flair. So anyway, if anybody else knows,
if anybody knows, Puma hit us up, let me know
tell him. I said, hey, okay, well, Kat and I
both hope wherever you are and whatever you're doing, have
the day you need to have bye bye
While we hope Couch Talks can be a tool that
helps and supports wherever you are in life, Couch Talks
does not serve as a replacement or substitute for therapy
or any mental health services.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
A right break it down. If you ever have feelings
that you just falls home, Amy and Cat gotcha covin
like and no, brother ladies and fellas, do you just
follow an the spirit where it's all us front or
real stuff to the chill stuff and the m but Swayne,
Sometimes the best thing you can do it just stop
(00:33):
you feel things.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
This is Feeling Things with Amy and Kat.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Happy Thursday. Welcome to a Couch Talks our Q and
a episode of the Feeling Things podcast. I'm Amy and
I'm Kat, and We've got an email today that has
a very very specific question. Before we do that, I'm
going to go back a couple of weeks to an
episode where you shared.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
With us a fun but sad son take the fun out?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Well, I know, but it's like fun fact, did you
know so sad fact about the Kennedy family? And I've
got an email from someone that sort of turns the
whole lobotomy situation into a positive because why don't you
summarize what you told us in case people didn't hear
that episode, which probably is nobody because I know everybody
(01:21):
listens to every.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Single episode, so this will probably be redundant. It was
about Rosemary, right, Yes, so she was the eldest or
the youngest. She was one of the I think she
was the eldest daughter of the Kennedy so Jk's sister.
So she had some mental I would call it, because
(01:43):
we don't know what it was, mental instability that worried
the father that it would impact his son's political careers
because it looked bad.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
So they thought, Okay, this lobotomy may help you. And
it turned out he gave her a lobotomy. It turned
out that she had to live in an assisted care
place for the rest of her life.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, they gave her a lobotomy. He didn't even tell
the mom, which you brought up an interesting question about
like did she even want it? Like maybe she was
in on it. We don't know.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Okay, Well, I have some information from Kelsey Rodriguez, who's
married to Mike d on The Bobby Bone Show. Kelsey's
an avid reader and she said she's read multiple books
and listened to multiple books about the Kennedy family. She's
obsessed with Kennedy lore. Did she have Rex recommendations? I mean,
I'm sure you will have to ask her. She replied
(02:39):
to us on Instagram to your Rosemary video, because we
clipped that part of the episode and put it on
Instagram and she just replied to it. So I went
back and found it and she said, okay. But do
you know why she had issues that led to the
lobotomy Because she was born in nineteen eighteen during the
Spanish flu pandemic and the mom's doctor wasn't available, so
he made her close her life legs for two hours
(03:01):
while Rosemary was in the birth canal, depriving her of oxygen. So,
based on what Kelsey shared there, it like some of
her mental things potentially stemmed from her lack of oxygen
to her brain. And when it says he made her
close her legs, I don't know if it's that the
doctor was saying, hey, keep her legs closed, I'll get
(03:23):
there when I can, or if the dad was like,
doctor's not here yet, keep your legs closed.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
That is making me tear up.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, so I know, especially because you now are do
you think you because you are with child. Yeah, if
y'all miss the announcement. On Tuesday's episode, Kat is pregnant
and she's crying.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Right, I'm crying. I am a little wit.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I literally just wiped a tear from your eyes.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
But it hasn't fallen out of my mind. I'm not
I'm tearing up. Okay, that is just sad to think about. Like,
also women back It's making me think a lot of things.
But like even women back then, Like I'm afraid of
birth in general and labor and like imagine somebody being
like keep them closed. It's not like in your body
is saying this is the time.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
And then also the guilt I would have if that
caused my child some kind of issue. So it sounds
like there was like intellectual issues, not so much like
she was just like wild and out of control. Yeah,
I'm not sure. Maybe a little combo so poor girl.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Little history there, which leads us to the now. An
email that we got about a positive that has come
from this negative situation. This is an email we got
from Dana Hey. Amy and kat I listened to the
latest podcast touching on Rosemary Kennedy's lobotomy and wanted to
share with you a positive thing that came out of
(04:48):
this horrible situation. I haven't seen the documentary, so I
don't know if they'll ever mention any of the below,
but as you'll see, some of the detail is based
on my own experience. Her sister is Eunice Kennedy Shriver,
who went on to start the Special Olympics in nineteen
sixty eight because of Rosemary. Eunice's son Anthony Shrever. He's
(05:09):
also the brother of Maria Shreiver, the ex wife of
Arnold Schwarzenegger, then went on to start Best Buddies International
about thirty years later. This is an organization that provides
a variety of opportunities to individuals with intellectual disabilities, starting
in high school and college, then throughout the rest of
their life, from simple buddy friendships, housing with others, job coaching, etc.
(05:30):
I'm lucky enough to be familiar because my company, Son Communities,
where I am Director of Talent Acquisition, has sponsored numerous
events and partners four opportunities within our organization. I have
hired one of their buddies directly on my team as
an onboarding coordinator. I attended the Best Buddies Friendship Conference
a couple of years ago, where I met incredible individuals
(05:52):
including Madison Tevlyn and Matthew Vonderre who star alongside Woody
Harrelson in Champions, which is an awesome movie by the way,
and Kennedy Garcia, who plays Felicity on Days of Our Lives.
Just that I share some of the positive that has
come from what Rosemary endured, Nana, So there you go.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, that makes me feel I mean.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
It's now possible.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yeah, it makes I don't feel better that it happened.
But like for somebody, from my understanding, from like the
little research I did, it felt like everybody like ignored
Rosemary after it happened, and so to know that her
sister started this in her honor, Yeah, yeah, they're so
good in the world.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
There. Okay, we got the email now that has a
specific question for us, and she didn't say remain anonymous.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
But I would keep her anonymous. I did that.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I deleted her. Yeah, so here you go from anonymous. Hi,
Amy and kat I've been married sixteen years with kids.
On the outside, my husband is seen as strong and stable,
just as I believed when I married him. But what
people don't know is that he struggles with anxiety at work,
which often leads to depressive episodes. I felt like I've
(07:04):
carried this burden, especially after a recent business crisis that
triggered a bad depressive loop of half a year already.
I've only recently come to terms with the fact, no
matter how supportive I've tried to be, I can't control
or fix his depression. Before I had this sense that
I could help or change things through my actions. Now
(07:27):
I know I can't, and that realization is hard to accept.
I'm struggling with how to cope with this. I'd really
love to hear your perspective and also understand how I
can better deal with having a spouse who's struggling with this.
It's so hard and I feel so lonely.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
That's a hard sentence, Yeah, I know. I feel like
a lot of times in situations like this, when there's
what we would call like I identified patient who would
be the identified like sick one in the family or
the one with the identified issue, what happens is that
everybody else kind of gets ignored because that issue trumps
(08:09):
everybody else. And then also there's some guilt associated with well,
this person can't help that they're struggling, so it feels
bad for me to have feelings about it, right, you know,
which is fair to have that feeling, but it's not
you know how we say, like all feelings are valid,
but not everything's justified. Like that doesn't make sense, Like
(08:30):
you're experiencing something too, and this is hard on you too.
And so the issue that often happens in families like
this is that identified patient, like I said, gets all
the attention, they get, all the help, they get, all
of the support. Everything's focused on them. And while we're
rescuing that person or helping or foregoing our own needs,
we forgot our own needs and like the things that
come up for us don't get taken care of. It's
(08:53):
it's a form of I think codependency in that, but
I don't think it's necessarily the same because it feels
like so I don't Sometimes I think she's at the point.
What I'm hearing is that she's like, I've been doing
it wrong kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Oh, she's had the realization, like that's what that line
the I've only recently come to terms with the fact,
no matter how supportive I've tried to be I can't
control or fix his depression. That is wonderful awareness. That's
like stepping back from potentially any codependent behavior you've had,
because when we are in our codependent tendencies, which I've
(09:27):
been there in my own home in relationships, I.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Feel as though or I felt as though.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
I could control yeah, the scenario, I could fix the situation,
and it was exhausting.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
But also doesn't I think that that there's a version
of that that almost feels better When it feels like
I can control it. It feels better than like if
I have no control. Sometimes that feels too much so
that letting go can be super hard, oh for sure,
because then it's like, well then what do I do?
And so when you make that transition from I'm like, oh,
I can't control it, there's oftentimes this limbo of like, well,
(10:03):
now what if I can't at least pretend I can
control it, what do I do? Because then it feels
like I'm drowning, you know? And so I have a
lot of especially because she said this is like Newer,
a lot of empathy for her right now in this
moment when she's like, Okay, I've made this huge step,
but now it feels like I'm in an ocean by
myself and I have no floaties, no paddle board, no nothing.
(10:28):
So well, and you can speak to what was helpful
for you, but I recommend anybody who is a helper
also needs to be helped, and so having your own therapist,
Like you might not be struggling with the level of
depression that your husband has, but you still have stuff
that I think deserves its own space, so you can
figure out your needs. Because oftentimes when we're taking care
(10:49):
of somebody else, we literally don't even know what we
our needs are because we're we've just kind of blocked
it all out. So having a therapist and having like
a non negotiable self care routine where like it gets
done no matter what I think, it's so critical.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yeah, I had some of that. I had my own therapists.
I had Now my situation was different than hers. I
had to surrender daily. I had to detach from the
situation with love, so I never felt like I was
detaching from my family or my home. It was part
(11:28):
of it was almost just detaching from even my codependent
behavior with love.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I love that phrase, detached with love. Yeah, because.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
You know I guess I probably think differently because my
situation ended in divorce. But I think even if we
had stayed married, you can detach with love in your yeah,
in your in your marriage that could grow to be
stronger than ever once y'all are on the other side
of this, after proper care is given and healing takes place.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And that's the other thing.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
What I don't know what your spouse is willing to do.
It sounds like on the outside everybody sees him as
let me see what you said, strong and stable. So
if the perception is strong and stable, I don't know
if he wants to keep it that way. And if
therapy is even an option or getting help as an option,
(12:21):
or medication is an option in some sorm, some form
of intervention needs to take place. Is he willing to
do that well?
Speaker 1 (12:30):
And that makes me wonder if he's strong And this
is me taking it in like the most extreme case,
But if he's strong and steady on the outside, does
that mean to everybody accept you? Because you should as
as somebody's partner. Yes, we support our partners, but we
aren't the sole supporter. Like we have friends, we have
community that are outside of our like just family in
(12:50):
the household, and so if he is, if he is
under the impression that he needs to maintain that identity
of strong and stable, then that's a lot of pressure
being put on you that you don't deserve to have
and you can't handle. He needs to be reaching out.
So that's a good point.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I feel like my personal experience with depression and me
was circumstantial at least that's how irapy that it was
because of what I was going through was but I
was high functioning at the same time. So like my
therapist at the time, she was a big proponent of
me doing puzzles and bird watching because that was a
(13:42):
way for me to be with my depression in a
healthy way. That makes sense, Like it was good for
my brain to have those moments, but it was a season,
Like I don't sit at my kitchen table staring at
birds and doing puzzles like I did during that season.
I mean, but I would sit there for hours. But
(14:02):
she said that was my that was one of my
tools at the time. Like the puzzling wasn't negative, it
was actually helping my brain. And at the same time
she was like, you sitting there for hours puzzling and
looking at birds was your depression, right?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah? But you also weren't like suffering in a vacuum,
like I feel like people around you that you were
close with new.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
So let's talk about being in a vacuum, okay, because
I hear other people use that phrase a lot and
they're like, well, in a vacuum, this makes sense, And
I'm like, where is this coming from? What can you
explain it to me? I get what you're saying. In
my I wasn't in a bag all by myself. I
had therapists, I had friends, I had a small circle
(14:48):
of people that knew exactly what was going on. So
I wasn't your right alone in my depression. And I
was showing up for work every day sort of like
you could. I wasn't my best self. Yeah, but that's
why to me, when my therapist is like, I think
you've got some depression going on, I was just as
sure I was well taken aback and shocked does if
(15:09):
someone was telling me something else, because I was like, what,
I don't know that I'm depressed. I don't know that
I need to get on anything. And then of course
I got on some well buttrin and it helped me,
and I was on that first season and then I
got off of it in it with medical help. But
I say that because it was it was good for
me for that season. If I ever needed intervention like
(15:31):
that again, I would go back to it. But other
people their chemical makeup, they may need something more long term.
I don't know. It sounds like he had a trigger
through a work event that happened for him, and so
maybe his is brought on by certain stressors and situations
at work. So it could be that for seasons, he
has certain tools that he pulls out of his toolbox,
(15:51):
but we need to get him those tools, well, he
needs to find them. Yeah, we can't do that for him.
You're right, that would be very codependent on me and
I don't I don't even know him.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
But back to the vacuum.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
I personally don't use that, but it sounds good when
other people do, so I want to start using it.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah. I was gonna say, feel you're gonna start using
it now. It just means like sucked in alone, insular, like.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
O insular another word tell me more.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Like you're in this thing alone versus like you're out
in the world. That's how I see it. Yeah, No,
I mean, sure it is.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
I just wanted more background so I can really use
it properly.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah. Well, I think you probably were gonna use You
would have used it probably anyway because you had the
context clues. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
But then other times I hear people just say it's
so cat like when you said it, it was like, hey,
for this circumstances situation, it totally makes sense. I've heard
others use it at times where I'm like, I don't know,
I'm getting the vacuum saying.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
You should call them out, like can you explain that,
because I don't think that works.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yeah, And maybe that's the thing. Maybe how they used
it doesn't work. But in this case, you were not
suffering in a vacuum. I was not, And it looks
like maybe here, yeah, he might be in the vacuum.
And then sometimes she's along for the right Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
And I don't know how their kids are impacted or
just in the home. Like I think of how some
stuff we had going on with my adopted son, like
at school and all day long he was so wonderful,
and at home he would fall apart. And our therapists
explained it to us that like Yeah, by the time
he gets home, he's exhausted, and y'all are the safe space.
(17:25):
So yeah, his teachers have never seen him act this way.
His friends, at other people's homes, he would never he
can't be that vulnerable with them. But at home, that
was his place where he could no longer keep it
together because he's working so hard at school to do
that all day, so he would come home and fall apart.
And so maybe to the outside world, I don't know.
(17:48):
I'm just guessing maybe your husband has on this mask
or this facade, and by the time he's home with you,
his safe place, he's tired, he's exhausted, and the real him.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
When it makes it worse because you're so comes top
of the stuff you're struggling with, you're exhausted of covering up.
And so it's like twofold, yeah, like double So yeah.
Our recommendation I think it sounds like we're on the
same page here, is like you make sure that you're
getting the help that you need because you matter just
as much as your husband does. And if we do
want to be good supports for people, we need to
(18:20):
be taking care of ourselves first, right, And maybe puzzles.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Yeah, like, what's the what's the the comparison people always
give is the oxygen mask come down.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I was trying not to use that so cliche. I
prefer to use things like in a vacuum. Yeah, I
just have a little bit of a higher level of metaphor.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
But yeah, so it's more like, let's get in the car,
buckle yourself up first.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Then you can't buck anyway.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Never mind you have to buckle your baby up first. Dang,
that doesn't work there. What is another analogy? When you're
cooking dinner, make your plate first. When you're all of
this now suddenly gets really selfish.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, none of those other things.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
When you're watching TV, pick the show you want to
watch first, honestly, I do that.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
I see you have your.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Glasses on today, which I think they're so cute. When
you wear glasses, you look so sophisticated and intelligence. That's
probably why you're saying things.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Like in a vacuum and insular.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Insular.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
I got new glasses. I don't have them on right now.
I prove it.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
No, I'll show them to you after.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
But there.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
I was influenced online. I kept getting this commercial which
I think they start to realize what you what come
like if an ad pops up on your feed, if
you how long you watch it, and then if you
click into it, because I've clicked into it before, like
months ago and never ordered any but then i kept
(19:59):
getting the ad over and over and over and I'm like, finally,
and the girl, she looks so cute in these glasses.
They're the sort of like aviators and their gold with
a pink tint, and through the glasses they're regular and
then down at the very bottom they have the magnification.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
But they're pink tinted. Yeah, there's sort of a pink tent.
I'll show them to you. I posted about them a
week ago. I guess you didn't see.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Cool cool. I thought that you saw everything that I posted.
But I had a prescription for progressive type glasses. That's
what they call them. Progressive if you just need a
little bit of help, like straight on, there's no everything,
it's just clear glass. And then down at the bottom
because like readers, you know, have people sometimes to put
it at the tip of their nose and like hold
it down to read. Well, this prevents that that lot.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So this is a reader, but it's doesn't do on
the tip.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
You just kind of have to move your eyes instead
of putting them on your nose, and you look elderly.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
I think it's cute when people do that.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
You just described it cute and like people do that
they're cute and old, which that's me, by the way,
I would have to be doing that. I don't mind
that I'm aging at all whatsoever. I mean, I just
turned forty five yesterday, so I don't mind that.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
I just.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Need a little bit of help. And these seem hip
and cool, and I ordered them and they're making me happy.
My prescription that I had gotten though, I lost those
and I had paid a lot of money for them,
so ordering these from this website it was significantly less.
I don't even remember the company. I think it's like,
look like l Okay, look their prescription. They're not prescription,
(21:39):
like they're readers. Like readers have different magnifications like one,
one point five two, Like it'll just help you if
I need to read the back of a pill bottle
or the a menu at arrest, or a magnifying glass. Yeah,
that's what we like at the gas station. If you
see a thing full of readers. This is how I
know your way younger than me, okay, because you're like, oh,
(22:01):
people look so cute when they have those on. And
then also it's it's just anybody can go by them
like you can at the gas station. You go grab
that reader and you know what magnification your eye needs?
Does it need a little bit of help like a one?
A little little help one point five and a little
little help too.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
You know what are you?
Speaker 3 (22:19):
I'm a one? Okay, I'm still my vision's still kind
of okay, which I'm like, why did I waste money
on getting a prescription?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
That was my question is like was there other prescription
in your prescription ones? Or it was literally just I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
I mean, I guess it was the equivalent by prescription
was the equivalent of a one? Ish, I'm sure it
was more precise to what my eyes needed.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
You're just out here without contacts, And.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yeah, I've I've I don't want to brag, but I've
until this point in my life, the last year, I've
had twenty twenty vision.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
That is crazy and imagine, I just I can't imagine
that much freedom in my life. I've had glasses since
second grade. I've had glasses since second grade.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
That's why I didn't want to brag.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
No, it's okay, that's really cool, Like I hope my
future children are just like you.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Does Patrick have glasses?
Speaker 1 (23:23):
He has just as bad as vision as me. It's
really bad. We're legally blind. So what are the odds that.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
You're like over here?
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Maybe it's you know how like maybe too bad equals
and good yes, cancels each other out.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Too bad eyesight, yeah, equal super eyes.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
But getting contacts or getting I don't get contacts. Getting
glasses in second grade was a little traumatic. Like it's
cool at first because we were like, you get glasses,
but then like you're the kid with it, felt like
I was a kid with glasses, you know, And it's crazy.
I think about this a lot. I didn't know I
couldn't see. I just thought that's how how like the
(24:00):
world looked until I guess I got some eye test,
But like, can you imagine being like eight nine and
I don't know how old you are in those grades,
but six seven, eight nine, and you can't see, but
you just think that's the world, and then when you
put glasses on. I remember getting the glasses and going
to an assembly and being in awe that I could
actually see the people that were talking.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, it was like a hamster race or something. Yeah, late,
but it was humans. No, well, there's people up there
racing the hamsters.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
You're like, And I could see the hamsters, see it.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I thought they were just little balls. Yeah. Yeah, I
wouldn't have known what they are, or I just thought
I would probably be like, is everybody just like watching
a bunch of like fuzzy stuff happening? Like this is
kind of lame.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah, speaking of watching things, I get this account that
pops up. It's like apple Wood Landscaping that.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Bacon No have you ever seen that?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Okay, no, no, no. They're very popular on TikTok and
Instagram and it's these landscapers And I don't know who
was the genius behind the marketing of this or filming,
but somebody on their team sort of filming their landscaping crew.
And they're pretty funny guys, and they do like dance
routines and they'll I mean they'll talk about the landscaping
(25:23):
or the driveway they're putting in or something like they're
a business. They're a legit business. But there's this one employee,
I guess Apple would or applegate Apple something. I don't
even follow them, but I guess again. I watch their
videos long enough to where they showing They keep showing up.
And there's one of the landscapers. His name is Puma,
(25:46):
and he is maybe five foot five feet, little Hispanic guy.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
He's so cute, older, like not cute, like I'm.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Attracted like a no no, no, no no no, but
I'm obsessed with him so much so that if I
saw him in public. And this is what made me
think of it, like you being able to see things
and recognize faces.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Because I'm like, how are you connecting these stories? I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
It just popped in my head whenever we were talking
about it, and I guess just looking at things online
and then seeing people, and I was thinking about how
I would freak out if I saw Puma in the wild,
like if I'd like if and I don't even know
where apple Wood Landscaping or whatever they're called is located,
but like say they got a job at Nashville and
I drove by, like I would recognize Puma. I would
(26:32):
know for a this little hat like I would know Puma,
and I would.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Be like Puma.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
What up?
Speaker 3 (26:38):
You don't know me, but I love your videos and
they make me smile, like he's just funny and down
for whatever, Like I I don't know. I like his energy,
like his vibe, and I'm thinking, yeah, I would recognize
him and would see him.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And imagine if you couldn't matter, I imagine.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
If I couldn't yeah, or if like I forgot my
glasses one day and I'd be driving by and I'd
be like that just like looks like a blob working
on some landscaping. I wouldn't be able to recognize Puma.
So if you're asking how we're tying this together, like
I don't know, that's how. This is how my brain works.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
That makes sense. And it made me think of that
this book that I recently talked about reading Rock Paper Scissors.
I don't I needed to look this up. I never did.
The main character has face blindness. Oh is that? And
so he can't recognize faces, so all faces kind of
like blend together and look the same to him, so
he can Like, he wouldn't know his wife was walking
(27:31):
up to him unless she like said something or there
was some very distinct like her smell or something like that.
But I read that whole book wondering if that was
a real thing. I never looked it up.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Oh it's a real it is. Yeah, face blindness is
definitely a real thing. It's called prosso panngee genesia.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
You got it. Wait, so, I guess my question is,
like in a vacuum, that's what it's called. How does
that work? Because that's not that your eyesight is bad.
It must be something about it means.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
That you're incapable of recognizing anyone even after meeting them.
So Celebrities who are rumored to have face blindness include
Brad Pitt, Steve Wo's niag Jane Goodall. Could she recognize
the monkeys, gorillas, chimpanzees.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Actually, maybe it's different because they're animals.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
I don't know, And I guess they all look sort
of the same.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Stephen Fry and Chuck Close they have spoken about experiencing
face blindness, a neurological condition making face recognition difficult or impossible,
though Brad Pitt hasn't had a formal diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Excuse to cheat on his wife?
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Wait what he e would know? If he's Why would
they cheat you like that? Because she would know through
ear recognition.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Well, I know, but you could be like I didn't
know it wasn't you. She had brown hair. But I'm
not saying I don't know his history of his relationships.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
But do you use that excuse of playing shots fired?
And Brad Pitt?
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Do you know, like do you use excuse of like, oh,
I'm so sorry I didn't remember because you know, I've
talked about like my fear of like somebody not remembering
me and me not remembering them. It's like, well, I
have face blindness. It's not my fault, like right, like
can we Yeah, I can't.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
I don't have to worry about remembering people's names because
I just have face blindness.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
It's not my fault. But okay, I'm interested in that.
I want to do more research on that because I
want to know, like, well, what can they see? Can
they see the difference between like that chair and another chair?
Speaker 3 (29:26):
What can people with face blindness see?
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Let's see what the Google says.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
People with facial blindness see facial features like eyes, noses,
and mouths, but their brain cannot process them into a
recognizable hole, making faces appear interchangeable, blurry, or unfamiliar. Wow,
that's like you with your glasses off, But.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Like, could he see like a bowl of pasta and
recognize it that's different than a salad? You know, That's
what I'm wondering. Okay, let me ask.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Can they tell the difference between pasta and salad or
like a bake z in a chicken palm? That one
might be hard. People with face blindness have normal twenty
twenty vision and can see, identify, and distinguish between objects, foods,
and places perfectly.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Well. Yes, they can easily tell the difference between pasta
and sells. To be specific, I would I wish there's
you could put goggles on that could help well understand this.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
It's I feel like you have experiences back in second
grade before you could see the hamster.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
But I couldn't. I couldn't see the difference between if
you put two pasta dishes in front of me.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Oh true, But I mean I'm just talking about in
the human faces, Like that's what they're experiencing with faces.
Like just imagine if you had that with faces, but
you could.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
I can't see anything right now without my glasses, Like
I don't. I can't see like your nose.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
You cannot see my nose, I see a tan round.
She's saying she can see tan because I put self
on before we started recording it, and I'm very dark
right now.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Let's see.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yeah, it's a very specific condition where the brain cannot
recognize faces.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
So that's all.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
So it's like you when you left up your glasses
and you look at me, but that you put your
glasses on and you look at a salad, you can
see it's But then with humans, no, I wonder if
with like cats and dogs, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
So you know how they make like drunk goggles. I
wish they couldn't make a face blind this goggle so
we could like see what it's like. I feel like
you literally have that. That's what I'm trying to tell
you know, But I don't think it's the same because
because I can't see, like it was saying that he
could see like facial features when I don't have my
glasses on. Oh I can't see.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
You can't see a nose, a mouth. Could you see
my eyeballs?
Speaker 1 (31:55):
There's just like two dark spots. But like I wouldn't
know that. I'm interesting.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
That's great, that's crazy. He's crazy because I'm having a
hard time, like, my poor child. Can people with face
blindness recognize animals? Well, this might help with the Jane
Goodall thing and chimpanzees. Okay, here, I have a visual.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Okay, this is what it's like. I'm going to show
this to cat. Obviously y'all can't see it.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
But if you google, like, okay, can you see how
that one person looks like they have a face and
the other one just like a blur?
Speaker 1 (32:30):
That's like what you see? That's why I see it's okay, okay, okay, right,
you do have your own vocal. That's crazy that that
only shows up on somebody's face, but you know other things.
It's a it's a neurological cure for this.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Yeah, I wonder what bring if like it's you're born
with it, or if a certain traumatic event brings it on,
or if it just one day you wake up and
you're like, I can't recognize faces.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, it's neurological, then I would assume it was.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
It could be both, right, yeah, really wild?
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, Well thanks for looking that up, because that's something
that pops in my head every now and then. But
I keep forgetting to like, actually, and now, the more
you know, the more. You know, if you have face blindness,
send us an email, tell us about it, and if
we're totally off, please correct.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
And we don't want to be insensitive to I'm sure
it's differrible. Yeah, and I don't want to be insensitive
to that. I mean, cap, I just kind of understand
it kind of has a little bit of it.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
But what's interesting is that, like with my like eyesight,
like it can be fixed. So I'm just like, oh,
I wish there was a way to like remedy this.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Oh for them, yes, right, because if they were to
put on glasses, it doesn't solve the problem because they
likely or like they said a lot of times, they
have twenty twenty vision hy Yeah. Yeah, okay, yeah, email us, Hey,
they're at Feeling Things podcast. You can email us, yes,
if you have face blindness, but also if you just
have a question for us, like our anonymous emailer had today,
(34:00):
which I hope that what we said was helpful to
your situation. It's really hard because we never know all
of the details and everything you have going on, but
thank you for opening up and sharing that with us.
I'm sure that also resonated with somebody else listening that
might be in a familiar or similar vacuum.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Did I do it right?
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Situation? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Just kidding.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Y'all can also call us and leave us a voicemail.
Eight seven seven, two oh seven, two oh seven seven.
This is my first time signing off as a forty
five year old.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
How does it feel? Tell us good? Does it feel different? No?
Okay it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Do you feel different today being pregnant?
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Like? Does every day feel different? Like?
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Do you wake up feeling different every day?
Speaker 1 (34:49):
I wake up and I'm like, okay, this is kind
of cool, you know, like when you forget something like
your birthday is coming up, or that you're about to
go into a ca like you forget like good news.
I keep having this experience, and maybe I'm not explaining
it well, but I keep having this experiment experience where
I'm like, why am I happy? And then I'm like, oh, yeah,
(35:11):
I'm pregnant, Like I keep getting like excited about that
I'm growing a baby. Yeah, so I don't feel different
signing off, But like, first of all, I do feel
different because my body is changing at a rapid pace.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
And you're tired, so tired but happy but happy. Tired
and happy and both both and both, and I feel
like my therapist always is like Amy both and both
and both.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
And would she like that impersonation of herself? Would you
say that's accurate?
Speaker 3 (35:44):
No, I didn't mean to sound that. Guess that's how
I'm receiving. I'm like, okay, okay, like I know, she's
just passionate about like being both and amy, like as
a reminder because I know, I know, and I talk
about it, and I took improv and but sometimes just
out of habit, like I when I'll be she'll be
like hold space for hold space for both. And yes, ma'am,
(36:08):
did you not like it?
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Because you're a therapist, you know when people impersonating you.
I was just wondering if that was a dramatic how
do you say that dramatization dramatization or if that's literally.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
No, she's probably like not as I was probably sounding
really urgent.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Yeah, and she's the story.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah, it's a little flair. So anyway, if anybody else knows,
if anybody knows, Puma hit us up, let me know
tell him. I said, hey, okay, well, Kat and I
both hope wherever you are and whatever you're doing, have
the day you need to have bye bye
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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