August 29, 2023 • 27 mins
Today’s quote: “Power of empathy: I’m in it with you. I’m not here to fix you. I’m not here to feel it for you. I’m here to feel with you and let you know you’re not alone.” -Brene Brown
Amy reads a few listener emails: one about connection & sharing things, one about a co-worker conflict, and another about evolving (which FYI: if you’re not evolving, you're dead!)
Kat gives us something to keep in mind when it comes to what we share publicly (like on social media or other platforms): “There is this culture that our whole lives can be exposed if we want them to be.” (Sometimes just sharing a small detail is more powerful than giving it all.)
HOSTS:
Amy Brown // RadioAmy.com // @RadioAmy
Kat Defatta // @Kat.Defatta // @YouNeedTherapyPodcast // YouNeedTherapyPodcast.com
Please send emails for the '5th Thing' to 4ThingsWithAmyBrown@gmail.com!
ShopEspwa.com for all items that support Haiti!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Haby Tuesday. I'm Amy and I'm Kat, and welcome to
the Fifth Thing. Today's quote comes from Brene Brown because
we've been spending a lot of time with Atlas of
the Heart, which is her special that's on HBO Max.
It's also a book, but she did a five part series.
We've mentioned it on multiple episodes, but I'm actually done
(00:25):
with it now, but rewatching it and I think it
was in the fifth episode though, that she spent some
time on empathy, and I decided to pull up a
quote from her on the power of empathy because I
think this is just an important thing to remember and
I want to remember it for myself as well. But
she said, the power of empathy, I'm in it with you.
I'm not here to fix you. I'm not here to
(00:46):
feel it for you. I'm here to feel with you
and let you know you're not alone. And I just
think that that's a great reminder when you are faced
with someone in your life that might be going through something,
it's you knowing what you need from people. And I
think it's okay to also express to loved ones. But Kat,
you're the expert here, so I want you to lean
(01:07):
into this more so but that, hey, I don't need
you to fix this right now, because so many people
they want to be of service and help and fix.
But in the episode, Brene actually did role play with
someone that works with her that she was in the crowds.
She pulled her up and she gave several examples and
some of them were like, oh wow, I mean, that's
actually not a bad thing that this example or this
(01:29):
person quote unquote's trying to do. But then it's not
really what anybody needs, especially when we're going through something hard,
and a lot of times we think we can like
empathize with something, but it's really not the same thing.
It might be sympathize. I don't know. So you break
it all down, but what are your thoughts when you
hear that quote the power of empathy?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Well, one, I feel like I need to confess that
I have yet to watch this. I'll put it on
the list. But I really like that because I think
what I hear a lot of times from well mean
people is the confused on what the difference between empathy
and sympathy is. And they do think that I can
be empathetic while I give advice, I can be empathetic
(02:08):
I tell them my experience when a lot of times
empathy literally is just like sitting there and not leaving
and not being judgmental, because I know in my life
when I've had like a hard experience and I'm venting
or I'm expressing, or I'm sitting with a friend and
then they start to give me like advice or ideas,
or then they start to talk about themselves, it can
(02:29):
be really damaging. Either I feel like I'm doing something
wrong and so you're trying to tell me what I
need to do, or I'm not getting the space I
need because now you're talking about yourself.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, I've definitely done the empathy card wrong to people,
like I'm guilty of some of the things. And so
moving forward, I want to be very aware of this
and I want to be very available to just sit
and be. And that was I think the final example
when Brene was like, I want you to watch it
to get it. I don't want to mess up the
role play. They did vice saying it incorrectly, but it
(03:00):
was just this whole vibe of hey, what do you
need right now, and like you got ten minutes, you
want to go talk through it, You want to talk
about it, what would you like to do for the
ten minutes? And the person I think was even like,
I actually don't want to think about it for the
next ten minutes. Cool, let's go what what would you
like to do these next ten minutes instead of forcing
the conversation or trying again to come in and be
a fixer. So I highly recommend that special. And we
(03:24):
just talk so much about you know, coming alongside people
so that they don't feel alone. Like that's what we
do this podcast for, and that's why we share. And
you know, some days it's that you might need a laugh,
or some days it's that you might need a cry,
or some days it might be that you know, yeah,
like everybody's going through hard stuff. And I mean, kay,
(03:45):
you're a therapist. Before we even sat down, which today
Fun Factor recording from Kat's office because of her schedule
and the Bobby Bone Show studio is actually super close
by to Kat.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So I just.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Finished that and mosied on over here. I didn't even drive.
I want, oh wow, beautiful day. I feel like I'm
in a therapy session right now. And on the wall
there's a sign that says it's okay to feel things
and I'm like, yeah, that's right, it is. But you
have your podcast, you need therapy, and you are all
about like you want people to feel connected and know
(04:17):
that they're not alone. And I'm looking at another sign
in your office right now that says everything is going
to be okay. Means even when things don't go as planned,
the world can still impress you, which I love that,
like you're not alone and yeah, things might suck right now,
but guess what around the corner, you never know what's
waiting for you.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I like what you said earlier too, about like Rene
saying what do you want to do? Because a lot
of times when we think we're being empathetic, we're being
really selfish because somebody, as a therapist, I can speak
to this, and maybe you can speak to this as
like being a client too.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
A lot of times when I'm not a client of
yours at the moment, yes.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
But like as a client, but a lot of times
when clients are crying and they're not speaking right, they're
just literally sitting in my on this couch crying and
I'm what six feet away from them, just staring at them,
it can be uncomfortable for me because I'm like am I,
What do I do? What do I say? But the
client doesn't feel uncomfortable because they're sitting with their emotions
(05:14):
and they're feeling them and they just like that my
presence is there. So if I were to be like
it's okay, or say something or give a piece of
advice or try to say something that makes them feel
better or like break the silence, it's because I'm uncomfortable,
not them. So a lot of times when we think
we're being helpful, we're being selfish.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Right or even like I tried to think about something
I experienced last weekend with someone that's going through something
that I also recently experienced, and I thought like the
natural thing that was coming into my head was that
I knew exactly what they were feeling because I've been there.
But then because of the work that I'm doing and
(05:52):
amazing people that you know, are speaking about these topics
of empathy, I realized, like, actually, I have been exactly
where she is. But because my other life experiences are
totally different, our filters are totally different, and I have
no idea. I think I may know how she's feeling,
but I really have no idea how she's feeling, so
(06:14):
I tried to really be careful with my words, like
if she asked me what my personal experience was like
and what I did, then I shared. But other than that,
I stayed very like, how can I support you in
this moment? And that's because I've been, you know, intentional
and trying to pay attention to thought leaders in this
area because I want to be of help to people,
(06:37):
especially those directly in my life. But you know, we're
on this podcast twice a week and listeners send us
emails like I'm going to read a few here and
we're going to be sharing things with them, and I
want to make sure that I'm trying to do the
best that I can to come alongside people. So this
email is from Sarah. She said, Hey, Amy, I just
wanted to thank you for the little piece of hope
(06:59):
that you gave at the end of the Bobby Bone
Show post show. I'm as soon to be stepmom of
three and last night I was having a bit of
a breakdown, feeling guilty about the lack of emotional connection
that I've had with the kids lately. I turn on
the post show podcast as I laid down in bed
as a way to help my mind relax, she said.
Side note, I listened to the Bobby Bone Show and
the Four Things podcast often when I need to relax
(07:20):
or I need to pick me up, because it feels
like I'm listening to a conversation with some of my friends.
At the end of the podcast, you mentioned you had
a breakthrough type conversation with your son where he willingly
expressed his emotions to you and you felt a better
connection with him. You said to take this as a
sense of hope for any parent out there that might
not be feeling very connected with their kids right now,
(07:41):
and that was exactly what I needed to hear at
that moment. So thank you. Loving and caring for children
that aren't biologically yours can be so hard some days,
and it just feels good to know that others have
been there or in the same boat. And I hesitated
in even sharing that story because it was such a
personal but it just came out. I had mentioned it
(08:03):
to Bobby and then I didn't give all the details
surrounding it. And I think that's another thing that I'll
pull from the Brene Brown special is not your story
doesn't have to be for everybody, And actually my story
with my kids. Isn't just my story, it's their story too,
So I have to be very careful about what I say.
But I do want to offer bits of hope and
(08:24):
encouragement to other parents that are in the thick of it,
especially if they have adopted or maybe they're becoming a
step mom. But I feel like there is this like, oh,
I have to share everything type culture at times, and
I want to tread lightly with what I do say
and don't say. But I'm glad that this met this
listener exactly where they needed to be met. And relationships
(08:46):
are tricky, and relationships are hard. But just again, like
this feeling, this is the perfect example of her knowing
right away, Oh, I'm not alone in this feeling was
comforting to her what.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I think, what's important, what just came out of your mouth.
You don't have to share every detail, like you can
share the bones of an experience and somebody can say, oh,
I've been in a similar place, so it doesn't have
to be I've been in that exact same space. So
I think about when we are sharing, especially because there
is this culture where it's like our whole lives can
(09:18):
be exposed if we want them. To with social media,
and sometimes it feels like we should be doing that,
But even sharing a small glimpse can be just just as,
if not more powerful, than giving every detail of every
part of your life.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, and I was hesitant in sharing that. I remember
exactly how I felt in the post show when Bobby
brought that up, and I was like, oh, I don't know,
but I said it in a way that I think
was okay, and I felt okay with And again, it's
like that one person can ask you.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
A question, Yeah, can I ask you a question? Yeah,
go ahead.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
You just looked so happy when I said I can't
ask you a question. Yeah, I was gonna say fire away.
For this is not rapid fire, don't worry. But for
you when you think about because I have to think
about this a lot while I'm doing therapy and on
You Need Therapy podcast, of what's the line between what
I do share and what I don't. So for you,
are there questions that you ask yourself for boundaries that
(10:25):
you have around what you share on the show versus
what you share with friends versus what you share on
your podcast.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I think that I've matured in that area. I think
early on in my career. I just was like, oh
my goodness, I'm on the radio. This is so fun.
And I mean I've thrown all kinds of things out there,
and you know, everything was show prep, like I was
so called this a week.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Great.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
There's a couple of stories that I told early on
in my career that I cringe now thinking that I
told them. Oh wow, And I'm not going to repeat
them now because I don't think they exist anywhere now,
thank goodness. But they involved other people, and again I
think it was my maturity level and not knowing boundaries
with storytelling. And yes, it was something that happened to me,
(11:08):
so I had every right to share the story. But
now that I have more years under my belt and
more life experience, knowing what the other people involved, like,
there was more to it than that. It wasn't as
black and white. There was likely some real serious things
going on, and I just kind of made it this like,
(11:28):
listen to this crazy story that happened to me, and
it is sensational, and yeah, it is a great story,
but is it for public airwaves? But I didn't ever
say the person's name. You know, it's still gotten backed,
but right, and the thing is I don't know if
it ever did. The forty one year old me would
be mortified if I chose to tell that story today,
(11:50):
But that was twenty five year old me, And you know, honestly,
I've even thought about reconnecting with that person in just
a way of like just in case it ever did
get back to them. I would like to now apologize
for that, because yes, it was my story, but it
wasn't mine alone. And so I think that's the boundary
(12:11):
that I've learned over time, is like if I want
to tell it, I've got to find a way to
tell it where it's just my side and not really
details that not involving the.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Other person didn't agree to it, right, And.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I mean I wasn't even in communication with that person anymore.
So you have people that are in your outer outer
circle and then you have your inner circle too, and
that has caused I mean that caused issues with you know,
with my mom and her cancer journey. I wouldn't say
it caused issues, but there was one day like my
mom was like, oh, I wish you would have said
it this way. And so then from then on out,
(12:42):
I even had my mom ride out like she knew
listeners wanted to be involved in her journey, and she
was so thankful for their thoughts and prayers, and that's
why it became such a big thing on the show
and Pimp and Joy, and so I had her start
writing out statements and I would open up a piece
of paper and I'll be like, this is from my mother,
and I would read the update verbatim, because I wanted
to respect her and her journey and that she was
(13:04):
willing to share so much and get vulnerable. If I
felt comfortable with what I was saying, I would say
it in my own words. But there were times where
I literally read verbatim notes that my mom had typed
up or written for me to share updates. And so
that was something that I had to learn. There was,
you know, sometimes my sister would make a comment, you know,
we'd be eating and'd be like, well that, hey, careful
(13:24):
what you say. Everything's show prep for Amy. That's why you.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Sent me that message the other day. Whenever I was like, so,
so we had had a conversation and I remember you
saying like, oh my gosh, that could be show prep.
Then I was trying to remember what it even was,
not that I didn't want you to use it, and
you sent me a voice memo that was like, I
just want you to know that if there's anything that
you ever tell me and you don't want it to
be using the show, you can tell me that. Don't
(13:47):
feel like I get to say whatever we talk about
in conversation because your life is not my job. And
I really appreciated that, but I was like, oh, I
would tell you.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, so I show prepped it the next day.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
So yes, I just feel like because in my mind
I'm like, ooh, interesting topic, So out of my mouth
comes show prep.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
But you don't use my name. No.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, but still, just because I say show prep, I
wanted to follow that up and send you a message
and being like, hey, I know you heard me say
show prep, but just so you know, I'm going to
run this by you if I do choose to prep
it or talk about it, because yeah, in my stuff,
in my marriage with my kids, I think anybody in
(14:33):
media that tells personal stories has likely had a relationship
that's been affected by what they've said, unless they're just
like incredibly wise and they have all the right boundaries
and they know all the right things to say. But yeah,
when you're publicly sharing things, there's times where it gets
a little muddy and you're like, oh, shoot, you know,
I hope that this doesn't get taken that way, or
(14:54):
like on the Bobby Bone Show, you have other people,
so then other comments get thrown in the mix, and
then the conversation goes different direction, but the origin of
the story is still involving the other people and they're like, wait,
what so And this can be just a lesson, Like
not everybody is on a public platform where they're sharing
stories publicly, but this could be what are you sharing
about someone else on Instagram? On social media? What are
you sharing with your your friend group? What are you
(15:17):
sharing at church with your prayer request group? Because I
just you know, hey, prayer request for so and so.
They're da da da da da da da. And I
even I think that to some friends that I'm like
so close to. I have other friends that are going
through something, and I'll I don't pause because I trust
the friend that I'm talking to, So I just kind
of roll into like, oh, I don't know, I just
(15:39):
hung up with this person, and then I'm like, ooh,
I got to rein that in I trust the person
I'm saying that to one hundred percent wholeheartedly. It doesn't
have I know that person is not going to say anything,
but it doesn't matter. I still shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Say get somebody else's information.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I've got to work on that. That's me confessing that
right now, Like I probably did that last week.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
And something I heard in what you said is that
you learned this by messing up a little bit, yes,
which I think everybody used to hear, like you're gonna
mess up when it comes to that stuff, and that's
probably how you learned it. That was such a big
deal is because it felt so icky after you did it,
You're like, oh, this means I need to put a
boundary here.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah. When I was twenty five years old, I don't
know that I felt the ickiness right away. I think
it took some maturing because I was just so new
to everything that I was doing and just looking for
reaction and not considering the consequences of that.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Which we all did that when we were twenty five.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Yeah, it's like okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Right, I'm going to get into another email, which is
straight up anonymous. Hey, Amy, I just want to say
that I've always been a person with plenty of self confidence.
I keep to myself and I don't care about what
other do. But lately there's been this one person at
work who makes me feel really insecure. She looks exactly
(17:06):
like me, dresses exactly like me, and people even call
me her name on accident. I don't like the negative
and competitive feelings that I get around this person, and
I'm wondering if you had any good words of advice.
Thanks Amy Anonymous. And that's when I say, thanks, Kat,
take it away.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
She say that this is somebody at work or somebody
like in her life at work, and she's saying people
are accidentally.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Confusing from her, and this is someone that is like
dressing like her, acting like her, And so I guess
she's admitting to being someone with a lot of confidence.
So we could just pivot this conversation to anybody that
is feeling insecure in a certain area in their life, Like,
what are some some tools we can keep in our
back pocket where we keep the focus on ourselves. Yeah,
(17:53):
because that's probably what I would have to do. I'd
be like, well, I can't control what this person is doing,
and I can't control if someone accidentally calls me this person,
and I just have to focus on me and continue
showing up as my best self at work, and that's
what I can do.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Yeah, I think that stuff like this there's not like
an awesome answer that will like make everything feel better.
But what I often offer people who ask for advice
like that is I offer them questions to think about.
So I would wonder, like, what is it about this
situation that makes you feel uncomfortable? Or what are you feeling?
And if if the feeling is I feel angry? Okay, well,
(18:29):
anger is a justice emotion, So what feels like is
not right or unjust in this situation? And then once
you have that, then you have like a need that
you can fulfill. So I would ask her questions back
of like, what is it about this that's frustrating? What
are you feeling when this happens? What is that feeling
saying to you? And then have a conversation with that
feeling until it leads you down the road to what
(18:51):
you need. And a lot of times the need is
something within yourself versus I need to go tell them this.
I need to go make sure she SUPs doing this.
You're right, we can't control other people. No, wish we
could if she wants to, it would be nice.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Go buy the outfit you were literally wearing last week.
There's nothing you can do about that. There's nothing you
can't be like I had this dress first.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Well, I mean you could, but I don't know what
I think you would be like. Well, I did in
high school. I bought this dress for spring break and
my best friend at the time went and bought the
same dress. It was from Dillard's went bought the same
dress in a different pattern, and I didn't talk to
her for two weeks because I was mad. So I
don't suggest to.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Well, I'm glad you've matured since then.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I've learned a little bit. Yeah, now we can laugh
about it. But it wasn't funny. But Cat's evolved.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Remind me to never buy anything that Kat has.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
No, let's get the same thing.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Okay, hopefully that helps. That's a tricky situation, and you
know it's hard. Yes, you're typically a super confident person
and you have something that's like a curveball that's thrown
at you. But what do they say, like when you flattery?
Like when someone oh flatter you? So mimicking is flattery.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
A link it's a lyric and a Drake song.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Well, I'm sure it is, but I think it was
the same before.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
That is the most sincere form of flattery. But Drake
says it's really just annoying to me, and you know
it's true.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yeah, okay, so yeah, just throw on some Drake when
you're driving into work and leave it in the car
because once you get in the office, it's your time
to shine. You got to focus on you and you'll
see what happens with her. Who knows, maybe if you
get to know her, you'll become like.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Bff and then you dressed a leg on purpose and.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Then you get to share clothes and you're like save money. Yeah,
I don't know. Next email is from Christine in Massachusetts.
Hey guys, Well today I finally did it. I'm all
caught up on the podcast. I was late to the
party and just started listening in late summer of twenty
twenty one. And while I know a new episode is
(20:54):
going to be out tomorrow or today, whatever, I'm all
caught up. I loved binging. This podcast is like having
a friend in the car and on morning walks with
the dog right there with me. It's refreshing to hear
your evolvement as I listened to hear you acknowledge difficulties,
changes in thinking, new ways to try things. I love
the addition of Cat to the fifth thing. Hearing her
(21:18):
laugh is like a jolt of energy to my soul,
Like I know, I love this person. That's my favorite
heart of the email. I'll read it again. I love
the addition of Cat to the fifth thing. Hearing her
laugh is like a jolt of energy to my soul.
You have introduced me to new people, books, products, and ideas.
I feel like my life has grown and evolved right
along with you. So thank you for continuing to put
(21:40):
out episodes even when things have been hard. You've been
a source of encouragement to me. Your friend Christine in Massachusetts,
So to that, I want to say, I totally agree
about Cat's laugh. I love it. She is a great
addition to the fifth thing, and so cool that someone
just found the podcast not even a year ago and
binge the entire thing from when it first started. And yes,
(22:01):
I feel as though I was a different person then,
But that kind of puts a bow on what we're
saying here is the evolvement of who we are and everything,
even from the beginning talking about watching the Brenet special
or learning these different emotions and the Alice of the
Heart and trying to understand empathy. I mean, I'm forty
one years old and I'm trying to get a handle
on things. I want to grow and evolve and that
(22:25):
I had a little birthday gathering back in March and
we were all sitting around the table just laughing and
saying like, if we're not evolving, we're dead. Yeah. So
that was like a mantra that came out of a
little birthday Hang. I guess in this recording, I'm telling
you about the times where I'm wanting to evolve. But
I've had a few days because I think it's that
time in my cycle for me where I'm just I
(22:45):
want to throw in the towel.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
I want to be done evolving.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
What am I doing? Why am I even here? But
then Kat I get an email like this, And then
kat also sent an encouraging text yesterday that was super
and someone had found your podcast through Lisa an Outweigh,
which Lisa was my co host on Outwegh. She's a
registered dietitian that's our friend. She also has a podcast
(23:11):
called The Truthiest Life, and she recently became a mom
and she had to pivot and so now she's stepped
away from Outweigh. So every Saturday, if you have you
need some encouragement or to know that you're not alone
with any eating disorder thoughts or disordered eating patterns or
body image issues, that's just a quick fifteen twenty minute
chat where you can download, and it's a tool that
(23:31):
you can use to hopefully encourage you through your eating
disordered journey, whatever that looks like for you in the moment.
But I guess Kat someone had found you because Lisa
mentioned you or something, and you're like, hey, just wanted
to share this because like you never know who's listening
or who needs to hear something.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And I got a message from somebody who lives in
New York yesterday who I was talking about coming on
the You Need Therapy, and she said, oh my gosh,
I meant to send this to you, but somebody in
my office York City was talking about your podcast and
how somebody put this really cool dating podcast out because
I did an episode on dating and I was like, what,
Like I didn't even think that this episode was that good,
(24:10):
and then there are people talking about it and that
don't even know who I am in a state far
far away.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
That makes you think of that pace Pecante commercial from
back in the day. Did you have that where you're from? No,
I mean I'm older than you. But also this is
in Texas, but it was like cowboys sitting around a fire,
and I don't know. I think I'm pretty sure it
was pace Pecante. Some people will know what I'm talking
about right now, but probably the majority of not. But
they'd be like New York City, Like.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
I'm i gonna land far far away.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yeah, yeah, it's like New York City. So when you
say that, that's how I feel that too. Like if
someone in New York City was talking about my podcast,
I'd be like, wait, what, yes, New York City.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah I've really made it. Somebody's talking about me in
New York. But I was like, oh, I need to
hear that, Like we all need to hear that, cause
we can all get in these spots no matter what
it is that we're doing that we're like does this matter?
And like you having your podcast doing Outweigh has literally
changed the trajectory of this person's life where she was like,
I've never heard what I heard on that podcast. It
(25:09):
was life changing to me. The stuff on Outweigh is
not the typical stuff you hear in the world, and
people need to have a way to find that information well.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
And it's crazy because when it started it was just
a series here on four things, and then it evolved
into its own podcast. And when Lisa decided she was
going to step away, which I fully respected that decision
and support her wholeheartedly, and everything is great. It was
bittersweet the day we were signing the papers to remove
her as a co host, but I thought about, well,
(25:41):
do we just dissolve this and figure something else out?
But then I thought, no, what if there's just one
person that still needs it and I have the bandwidth now.
I think had Lisa come to me a year ago,
I probably would have not been able to do it,
and thought, well, you know, Outwigh, that was a good run,
what a cool thing that existed. But thankfully, right now
(26:02):
we'll figure this out, we'll come up with a plan,
we'll take this on and that's what I'm gonna do.
We're making it happen. I mean, and this is a
piece of encouragement too, of just how much like life
can change in a year, and it'll be a roller coaster.
There's gonna be ups and downs. It might the pendulum
might swing the other way. But a year ago I
couldn't even have imagined being where I am now. But
(26:24):
I had to put in work and I had to
be patient, and I'm still having to be. But just
some encouragement there too, that you know, like if you're
in the lows, just know there's peaks and there's valleys.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Oh yeah, And I think that something to remember on
both sides. If you are in a place where you're
in a valley, the valley doesn't last forever, and so
use that as encouragement. And if you're in a place
where you're in like a mountaintop moment, that's also not
going to last forever, so savor it. I think we
forget to do that a lot.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Well, we just appreciate each and every one of you
so much. And if you want to send us an email,
of course I had more. I was going to get too,
but Cat and I go on. I love how we're like,
I'm gonna set a timer and then we're gonna quit
talking at a certain time. But here we are, we're
still talking. We went over It's over thirty minutes, so
fit things. We try to keep shorter, but you know,
Kat likes to talk.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Just kidding, okay, but I do.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I know I'm the one that mostly likes me. So
thank you to the emails that we did get through.
Thank you for taking the time to send a note
because I know that it's kind of weird just emailing
someone that you've never met. But we love hearing from you.
So four Things with Amy Brown at gmail dot com
is where you can do that. On Instagram, I'm at
radio Amy Kat take it away with your info.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
At Kat dot defauda and also at Uni Therapy podcast Boom.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
We hope you'll have an amazing day and we'll see well,
I'll see you on Thursday for four Things. But Cat
and I together here as one. We'll see you next Tuesday. Bye.
Haby Tuesday. I'm Amy and I'm Kat, and welcome to
the Fifth Thing. Today's quote comes from Brene Brown because
we've been spending a lot of time with Atlas of
the Heart, which is her special that's on HBO Max.
It's also a book, but she did a five part series.
We've mentioned it on multiple episodes, but I'm actually done
(00:25):
with it now, but rewatching it and I think it
was in the fifth episode though, that she spent some
time on empathy, and I decided to pull up a
quote from her on the power of empathy because I
think this is just an important thing to remember and
I want to remember it for myself as well. But
she said, the power of empathy, I'm in it with you.
I'm not here to fix you. I'm not here to
(00:46):
feel it for you. I'm here to feel with you
and let you know you're not alone. And I just
think that that's a great reminder when you are faced
with someone in your life that might be going through something,
it's you knowing what you need from people. And I
think it's okay to also express to loved ones. But Kat,
you're the expert here, so I want you to lean
(01:07):
into this more so but that, hey, I don't need
you to fix this right now, because so many people
they want to be of service and help and fix.
But in the episode, Brene actually did role play with
someone that works with her that she was in the crowds.
She pulled her up and she gave several examples and
some of them were like, oh wow, I mean, that's
actually not a bad thing that this example or this
(01:29):
person quote unquote's trying to do. But then it's not
really what anybody needs, especially when we're going through something hard,
and a lot of times we think we can like
empathize with something, but it's really not the same thing.
It might be sympathize. I don't know. So you break
it all down, but what are your thoughts when you
hear that quote the power of empathy?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Well, one, I feel like I need to confess that
I have yet to watch this. I'll put it on
the list. But I really like that because I think
what I hear a lot of times from well mean
people is the confused on what the difference between empathy
and sympathy is. And they do think that I can
be empathetic while I give advice, I can be empathetic
(02:08):
I tell them my experience when a lot of times
empathy literally is just like sitting there and not leaving
and not being judgmental, because I know in my life
when I've had like a hard experience and I'm venting
or I'm expressing, or I'm sitting with a friend and
then they start to give me like advice or ideas,
or then they start to talk about themselves, it can
(02:29):
be really damaging. Either I feel like I'm doing something
wrong and so you're trying to tell me what I
need to do, or I'm not getting the space I
need because now you're talking about yourself.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, I've definitely done the empathy card wrong to people,
like I'm guilty of some of the things. And so
moving forward, I want to be very aware of this
and I want to be very available to just sit
and be. And that was I think the final example
when Brene was like, I want you to watch it
to get it. I don't want to mess up the
role play. They did vice saying it incorrectly, but it
(03:00):
was just this whole vibe of hey, what do you
need right now, and like you got ten minutes, you
want to go talk through it, You want to talk
about it, what would you like to do for the
ten minutes? And the person I think was even like,
I actually don't want to think about it for the
next ten minutes. Cool, let's go what what would you
like to do these next ten minutes instead of forcing
the conversation or trying again to come in and be
a fixer. So I highly recommend that special. And we
(03:24):
just talk so much about you know, coming alongside people
so that they don't feel alone. Like that's what we
do this podcast for, and that's why we share. And
you know, some days it's that you might need a laugh,
or some days it's that you might need a cry,
or some days it might be that you know, yeah,
like everybody's going through hard stuff. And I mean, kay,
(03:45):
you're a therapist. Before we even sat down, which today
Fun Factor recording from Kat's office because of her schedule
and the Bobby Bone Show studio is actually super close
by to Kat.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So I just.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Finished that and mosied on over here. I didn't even drive.
I want, oh wow, beautiful day. I feel like I'm
in a therapy session right now. And on the wall
there's a sign that says it's okay to feel things
and I'm like, yeah, that's right, it is. But you
have your podcast, you need therapy, and you are all
about like you want people to feel connected and know
(04:17):
that they're not alone. And I'm looking at another sign
in your office right now that says everything is going
to be okay. Means even when things don't go as planned,
the world can still impress you, which I love that,
like you're not alone and yeah, things might suck right now,
but guess what around the corner, you never know what's
waiting for you.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I like what you said earlier too, about like Rene
saying what do you want to do? Because a lot
of times when we think we're being empathetic, we're being
really selfish because somebody, as a therapist, I can speak
to this, and maybe you can speak to this as
like being a client too.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
A lot of times when I'm not a client of
yours at the moment, yes.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
But like as a client, but a lot of times
when clients are crying and they're not speaking right, they're
just literally sitting in my on this couch crying and
I'm what six feet away from them, just staring at them,
it can be uncomfortable for me because I'm like am I,
What do I do? What do I say? But the
client doesn't feel uncomfortable because they're sitting with their emotions
(05:14):
and they're feeling them and they just like that my
presence is there. So if I were to be like
it's okay, or say something or give a piece of
advice or try to say something that makes them feel
better or like break the silence, it's because I'm uncomfortable,
not them. So a lot of times when we think
we're being helpful, we're being selfish.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Right or even like I tried to think about something
I experienced last weekend with someone that's going through something
that I also recently experienced, and I thought like the
natural thing that was coming into my head was that
I knew exactly what they were feeling because I've been there.
But then because of the work that I'm doing and
(05:52):
amazing people that you know, are speaking about these topics
of empathy, I realized, like, actually, I have been exactly
where she is. But because my other life experiences are
totally different, our filters are totally different, and I have
no idea. I think I may know how she's feeling,
but I really have no idea how she's feeling, so
(06:14):
I tried to really be careful with my words, like
if she asked me what my personal experience was like
and what I did, then I shared. But other than that,
I stayed very like, how can I support you in
this moment? And that's because I've been, you know, intentional
and trying to pay attention to thought leaders in this
area because I want to be of help to people,
(06:37):
especially those directly in my life. But you know, we're
on this podcast twice a week and listeners send us
emails like I'm going to read a few here and
we're going to be sharing things with them, and I
want to make sure that I'm trying to do the
best that I can to come alongside people. So this
email is from Sarah. She said, Hey, Amy, I just
wanted to thank you for the little piece of hope
(06:59):
that you gave at the end of the Bobby Bone
Show post show. I'm as soon to be stepmom of
three and last night I was having a bit of
a breakdown, feeling guilty about the lack of emotional connection
that I've had with the kids lately. I turn on
the post show podcast as I laid down in bed
as a way to help my mind relax, she said.
Side note, I listened to the Bobby Bone Show and
the Four Things podcast often when I need to relax
(07:20):
or I need to pick me up, because it feels
like I'm listening to a conversation with some of my friends.
At the end of the podcast, you mentioned you had
a breakthrough type conversation with your son where he willingly
expressed his emotions to you and you felt a better
connection with him. You said to take this as a
sense of hope for any parent out there that might
not be feeling very connected with their kids right now,
(07:41):
and that was exactly what I needed to hear at
that moment. So thank you. Loving and caring for children
that aren't biologically yours can be so hard some days,
and it just feels good to know that others have
been there or in the same boat. And I hesitated
in even sharing that story because it was such a
personal but it just came out. I had mentioned it
(08:03):
to Bobby and then I didn't give all the details
surrounding it. And I think that's another thing that I'll
pull from the Brene Brown special is not your story
doesn't have to be for everybody, And actually my story
with my kids. Isn't just my story, it's their story too,
So I have to be very careful about what I say.
But I do want to offer bits of hope and
(08:24):
encouragement to other parents that are in the thick of it,
especially if they have adopted or maybe they're becoming a
step mom. But I feel like there is this like, oh,
I have to share everything type culture at times, and
I want to tread lightly with what I do say
and don't say. But I'm glad that this met this
listener exactly where they needed to be met. And relationships
(08:46):
are tricky, and relationships are hard. But just again, like
this feeling, this is the perfect example of her knowing
right away, Oh, I'm not alone in this feeling was
comforting to her what.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I think, what's important, what just came out of your mouth.
You don't have to share every detail, like you can
share the bones of an experience and somebody can say, oh,
I've been in a similar place, so it doesn't have
to be I've been in that exact same space. So
I think about when we are sharing, especially because there
is this culture where it's like our whole lives can
(09:18):
be exposed if we want them. To with social media,
and sometimes it feels like we should be doing that,
But even sharing a small glimpse can be just just as,
if not more powerful, than giving every detail of every
part of your life.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, and I was hesitant in sharing that. I remember
exactly how I felt in the post show when Bobby
brought that up, and I was like, oh, I don't know,
but I said it in a way that I think
was okay, and I felt okay with And again, it's
like that one person can ask you.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
A question, Yeah, can I ask you a question? Yeah,
go ahead.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
You just looked so happy when I said I can't
ask you a question. Yeah, I was gonna say fire away.
For this is not rapid fire, don't worry. But for
you when you think about because I have to think
about this a lot while I'm doing therapy and on
You Need Therapy podcast, of what's the line between what
I do share and what I don't. So for you,
are there questions that you ask yourself for boundaries that
(10:25):
you have around what you share on the show versus
what you share with friends versus what you share on
your podcast.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I think that I've matured in that area. I think
early on in my career. I just was like, oh
my goodness, I'm on the radio. This is so fun.
And I mean I've thrown all kinds of things out there,
and you know, everything was show prep, like I was
so called this a week.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Great.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
There's a couple of stories that I told early on
in my career that I cringe now thinking that I
told them. Oh wow, And I'm not going to repeat
them now because I don't think they exist anywhere now,
thank goodness. But they involved other people, and again I
think it was my maturity level and not knowing boundaries
with storytelling. And yes, it was something that happened to me,
(11:08):
so I had every right to share the story. But
now that I have more years under my belt and
more life experience, knowing what the other people involved, like,
there was more to it than that. It wasn't as
black and white. There was likely some real serious things
going on, and I just kind of made it this like,
(11:28):
listen to this crazy story that happened to me, and
it is sensational, and yeah, it is a great story,
but is it for public airwaves? But I didn't ever
say the person's name. You know, it's still gotten backed,
but right, and the thing is I don't know if
it ever did. The forty one year old me would
be mortified if I chose to tell that story today,
(11:50):
But that was twenty five year old me, And you know, honestly,
I've even thought about reconnecting with that person in just
a way of like just in case it ever did
get back to them. I would like to now apologize
for that, because yes, it was my story, but it
wasn't mine alone. And so I think that's the boundary
(12:11):
that I've learned over time, is like if I want
to tell it, I've got to find a way to
tell it where it's just my side and not really
details that not involving the.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Other person didn't agree to it, right, And.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I mean I wasn't even in communication with that person anymore.
So you have people that are in your outer outer
circle and then you have your inner circle too, and
that has caused I mean that caused issues with you know,
with my mom and her cancer journey. I wouldn't say
it caused issues, but there was one day like my
mom was like, oh, I wish you would have said
it this way. And so then from then on out,
(12:42):
I even had my mom ride out like she knew
listeners wanted to be involved in her journey, and she
was so thankful for their thoughts and prayers, and that's
why it became such a big thing on the show
and Pimp and Joy, and so I had her start
writing out statements and I would open up a piece
of paper and I'll be like, this is from my mother,
and I would read the update verbatim, because I wanted
to respect her and her journey and that she was
(13:04):
willing to share so much and get vulnerable. If I
felt comfortable with what I was saying, I would say
it in my own words. But there were times where
I literally read verbatim notes that my mom had typed
up or written for me to share updates. And so
that was something that I had to learn. There was,
you know, sometimes my sister would make a comment, you know,
we'd be eating and'd be like, well that, hey, careful
(13:24):
what you say. Everything's show prep for Amy. That's why you.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Sent me that message the other day. Whenever I was like, so,
so we had had a conversation and I remember you
saying like, oh my gosh, that could be show prep.
Then I was trying to remember what it even was,
not that I didn't want you to use it, and
you sent me a voice memo that was like, I
just want you to know that if there's anything that
you ever tell me and you don't want it to
be using the show, you can tell me that. Don't
(13:47):
feel like I get to say whatever we talk about
in conversation because your life is not my job. And
I really appreciated that, but I was like, oh, I
would tell you.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, so I show prepped it the next day.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
So yes, I just feel like because in my mind
I'm like, ooh, interesting topic, So out of my mouth
comes show prep.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
But you don't use my name. No.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, but still, just because I say show prep, I
wanted to follow that up and send you a message
and being like, hey, I know you heard me say
show prep, but just so you know, I'm going to
run this by you if I do choose to prep
it or talk about it, because yeah, in my stuff,
in my marriage with my kids, I think anybody in
(14:33):
media that tells personal stories has likely had a relationship
that's been affected by what they've said, unless they're just
like incredibly wise and they have all the right boundaries
and they know all the right things to say. But yeah,
when you're publicly sharing things, there's times where it gets
a little muddy and you're like, oh, shoot, you know,
I hope that this doesn't get taken that way, or
(14:54):
like on the Bobby Bone Show, you have other people,
so then other comments get thrown in the mix, and
then the conversation goes different direction, but the origin of
the story is still involving the other people and they're like, wait,
what so And this can be just a lesson, Like
not everybody is on a public platform where they're sharing
stories publicly, but this could be what are you sharing
about someone else on Instagram? On social media? What are
you sharing with your your friend group? What are you
(15:17):
sharing at church with your prayer request group? Because I
just you know, hey, prayer request for so and so.
They're da da da da da da da. And I
even I think that to some friends that I'm like
so close to. I have other friends that are going
through something, and I'll I don't pause because I trust
the friend that I'm talking to, So I just kind
of roll into like, oh, I don't know, I just
(15:39):
hung up with this person, and then I'm like, ooh,
I got to rein that in I trust the person
I'm saying that to one hundred percent wholeheartedly. It doesn't
have I know that person is not going to say anything,
but it doesn't matter. I still shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Say get somebody else's information.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I've got to work on that. That's me confessing that
right now, Like I probably did that last week.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
And something I heard in what you said is that
you learned this by messing up a little bit, yes,
which I think everybody used to hear, like you're gonna
mess up when it comes to that stuff, and that's
probably how you learned it. That was such a big
deal is because it felt so icky after you did it,
You're like, oh, this means I need to put a
boundary here.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah. When I was twenty five years old, I don't
know that I felt the ickiness right away. I think
it took some maturing because I was just so new
to everything that I was doing and just looking for
reaction and not considering the consequences of that.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Which we all did that when we were twenty five.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Yeah, it's like okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Right, I'm going to get into another email, which is
straight up anonymous. Hey, Amy, I just want to say
that I've always been a person with plenty of self confidence.
I keep to myself and I don't care about what
other do. But lately there's been this one person at
work who makes me feel really insecure. She looks exactly
(17:06):
like me, dresses exactly like me, and people even call
me her name on accident. I don't like the negative
and competitive feelings that I get around this person, and
I'm wondering if you had any good words of advice.
Thanks Amy Anonymous. And that's when I say, thanks, Kat,
take it away.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
She say that this is somebody at work or somebody
like in her life at work, and she's saying people
are accidentally.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Confusing from her, and this is someone that is like
dressing like her, acting like her, And so I guess
she's admitting to being someone with a lot of confidence.
So we could just pivot this conversation to anybody that
is feeling insecure in a certain area in their life, Like,
what are some some tools we can keep in our
back pocket where we keep the focus on ourselves. Yeah,
(17:53):
because that's probably what I would have to do. I'd
be like, well, I can't control what this person is doing,
and I can't control if someone accidentally calls me this person,
and I just have to focus on me and continue
showing up as my best self at work, and that's
what I can do.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Yeah, I think that stuff like this there's not like
an awesome answer that will like make everything feel better.
But what I often offer people who ask for advice
like that is I offer them questions to think about.
So I would wonder, like, what is it about this
situation that makes you feel uncomfortable? Or what are you feeling?
And if if the feeling is I feel angry? Okay, well,
(18:29):
anger is a justice emotion, So what feels like is
not right or unjust in this situation? And then once
you have that, then you have like a need that
you can fulfill. So I would ask her questions back
of like, what is it about this that's frustrating? What
are you feeling when this happens? What is that feeling
saying to you? And then have a conversation with that
feeling until it leads you down the road to what
(18:51):
you need. And a lot of times the need is
something within yourself versus I need to go tell them this.
I need to go make sure she SUPs doing this.
You're right, we can't control other people. No, wish we
could if she wants to, it would be nice.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Go buy the outfit you were literally wearing last week.
There's nothing you can do about that. There's nothing you
can't be like I had this dress first.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Well, I mean you could, but I don't know what
I think you would be like. Well, I did in
high school. I bought this dress for spring break and
my best friend at the time went and bought the
same dress. It was from Dillard's went bought the same
dress in a different pattern, and I didn't talk to
her for two weeks because I was mad. So I
don't suggest to.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Well, I'm glad you've matured since then.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I've learned a little bit. Yeah, now we can laugh
about it. But it wasn't funny. But Cat's evolved.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Remind me to never buy anything that Kat has.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
No, let's get the same thing.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Okay, hopefully that helps. That's a tricky situation, and you
know it's hard. Yes, you're typically a super confident person
and you have something that's like a curveball that's thrown
at you. But what do they say, like when you flattery?
Like when someone oh flatter you? So mimicking is flattery.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
A link it's a lyric and a Drake song.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Well, I'm sure it is, but I think it was
the same before.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
That is the most sincere form of flattery. But Drake
says it's really just annoying to me, and you know
it's true.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yeah, okay, so yeah, just throw on some Drake when
you're driving into work and leave it in the car
because once you get in the office, it's your time
to shine. You got to focus on you and you'll
see what happens with her. Who knows, maybe if you
get to know her, you'll become like.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Bff and then you dressed a leg on purpose and.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Then you get to share clothes and you're like save money. Yeah,
I don't know. Next email is from Christine in Massachusetts.
Hey guys, Well today I finally did it. I'm all
caught up on the podcast. I was late to the
party and just started listening in late summer of twenty
twenty one. And while I know a new episode is
(20:54):
going to be out tomorrow or today, whatever, I'm all
caught up. I loved binging. This podcast is like having
a friend in the car and on morning walks with
the dog right there with me. It's refreshing to hear
your evolvement as I listened to hear you acknowledge difficulties,
changes in thinking, new ways to try things. I love
the addition of Cat to the fifth thing. Hearing her
(21:18):
laugh is like a jolt of energy to my soul,
Like I know, I love this person. That's my favorite
heart of the email. I'll read it again. I love
the addition of Cat to the fifth thing. Hearing her
laugh is like a jolt of energy to my soul.
You have introduced me to new people, books, products, and ideas.
I feel like my life has grown and evolved right
along with you. So thank you for continuing to put
(21:40):
out episodes even when things have been hard. You've been
a source of encouragement to me. Your friend Christine in Massachusetts,
So to that, I want to say, I totally agree
about Cat's laugh. I love it. She is a great
addition to the fifth thing, and so cool that someone
just found the podcast not even a year ago and
binge the entire thing from when it first started. And yes,
(22:01):
I feel as though I was a different person then,
But that kind of puts a bow on what we're
saying here is the evolvement of who we are and everything,
even from the beginning talking about watching the Brenet special
or learning these different emotions and the Alice of the
Heart and trying to understand empathy. I mean, I'm forty
one years old and I'm trying to get a handle
on things. I want to grow and evolve and that
(22:25):
I had a little birthday gathering back in March and
we were all sitting around the table just laughing and
saying like, if we're not evolving, we're dead. Yeah. So
that was like a mantra that came out of a
little birthday Hang. I guess in this recording, I'm telling
you about the times where I'm wanting to evolve. But
I've had a few days because I think it's that
time in my cycle for me where I'm just I
(22:45):
want to throw in the towel.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
I want to be done evolving.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
What am I doing? Why am I even here? But
then Kat I get an email like this, And then
kat also sent an encouraging text yesterday that was super
and someone had found your podcast through Lisa an Outweigh,
which Lisa was my co host on Outwegh. She's a
registered dietitian that's our friend. She also has a podcast
(23:11):
called The Truthiest Life, and she recently became a mom
and she had to pivot and so now she's stepped
away from Outweigh. So every Saturday, if you have you
need some encouragement or to know that you're not alone
with any eating disorder thoughts or disordered eating patterns or
body image issues, that's just a quick fifteen twenty minute
chat where you can download, and it's a tool that
(23:31):
you can use to hopefully encourage you through your eating
disordered journey, whatever that looks like for you in the moment.
But I guess Kat someone had found you because Lisa
mentioned you or something, and you're like, hey, just wanted
to share this because like you never know who's listening
or who needs to hear something.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And I got a message from somebody who lives in
New York yesterday who I was talking about coming on
the You Need Therapy, and she said, oh my gosh,
I meant to send this to you, but somebody in
my office York City was talking about your podcast and
how somebody put this really cool dating podcast out because
I did an episode on dating and I was like, what,
Like I didn't even think that this episode was that good,
(24:10):
and then there are people talking about it and that
don't even know who I am in a state far
far away.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
That makes you think of that pace Pecante commercial from
back in the day. Did you have that where you're from? No,
I mean I'm older than you. But also this is
in Texas, but it was like cowboys sitting around a fire,
and I don't know. I think I'm pretty sure it
was pace Pecante. Some people will know what I'm talking
about right now, but probably the majority of not. But
they'd be like New York City, Like.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
I'm i gonna land far far away.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yeah, yeah, it's like New York City. So when you
say that, that's how I feel that too. Like if
someone in New York City was talking about my podcast,
I'd be like, wait, what, yes, New York City.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah I've really made it. Somebody's talking about me in
New York. But I was like, oh, I need to
hear that, Like we all need to hear that, cause
we can all get in these spots no matter what
it is that we're doing that we're like does this matter?
And like you having your podcast doing Outweigh has literally
changed the trajectory of this person's life where she was like,
I've never heard what I heard on that podcast. It
(25:09):
was life changing to me. The stuff on Outweigh is
not the typical stuff you hear in the world, and
people need to have a way to find that information well.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
And it's crazy because when it started it was just
a series here on four things, and then it evolved
into its own podcast. And when Lisa decided she was
going to step away, which I fully respected that decision
and support her wholeheartedly, and everything is great. It was
bittersweet the day we were signing the papers to remove
her as a co host, but I thought about, well,
(25:41):
do we just dissolve this and figure something else out?
But then I thought, no, what if there's just one
person that still needs it and I have the bandwidth now.
I think had Lisa come to me a year ago,
I probably would have not been able to do it,
and thought, well, you know, Outwigh, that was a good run,
what a cool thing that existed. But thankfully, right now
(26:02):
we'll figure this out, we'll come up with a plan,
we'll take this on and that's what I'm gonna do.
We're making it happen. I mean, and this is a
piece of encouragement too, of just how much like life
can change in a year, and it'll be a roller coaster.
There's gonna be ups and downs. It might the pendulum
might swing the other way. But a year ago I
couldn't even have imagined being where I am now. But
(26:24):
I had to put in work and I had to
be patient, and I'm still having to be. But just
some encouragement there too, that you know, like if you're
in the lows, just know there's peaks and there's valleys.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Oh yeah, And I think that something to remember on
both sides. If you are in a place where you're
in a valley, the valley doesn't last forever, and so
use that as encouragement. And if you're in a place
where you're in like a mountaintop moment, that's also not
going to last forever, so savor it. I think we
forget to do that a lot.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Well, we just appreciate each and every one of you
so much. And if you want to send us an email,
of course I had more. I was going to get too,
but Cat and I go on. I love how we're like,
I'm gonna set a timer and then we're gonna quit
talking at a certain time. But here we are, we're
still talking. We went over It's over thirty minutes, so
fit things. We try to keep shorter, but you know,
Kat likes to talk.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Just kidding, okay, but I do.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I know I'm the one that mostly likes me. So
thank you to the emails that we did get through.
Thank you for taking the time to send a note
because I know that it's kind of weird just emailing
someone that you've never met. But we love hearing from you.
So four Things with Amy Brown at gmail dot com
is where you can do that. On Instagram, I'm at
radio Amy Kat take it away with your info.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
At Kat dot defauda and also at Uni Therapy podcast Boom.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
We hope you'll have an amazing day and we'll see well,
I'll see you on Thursday for four Things. But Cat
and I together here as one. We'll see you next Tuesday. Bye.
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.