Addiction isn’t just about substances—it’s about the ways we cope with pain, stress, and unmet needs. In this episode, Chip Dodd and Leanne unpack how behaviors like emotional eating, over-exercising, workaholism, and social media addiction follow the same addictive patterns as substances. They explore the difference between coping mechanisms that help us heal versus those that keep us stuck, and how the brain wires itself for addiction. If you’ve ever felt caught in a cycle of numbing or self-sabotage, this episode will help you understand why—and what you can do about it.
Visit Chip's website at: ChipDodd.com
You can order your copy of Chip's book, The Voice of the Heart: A Call To Full Living HERE.
Listen to the Living With Heart Podcast HERE.
HOST: Leanne Ellington // StresslessEating.com // @leanneellington
To learn more about Leanne, head over to www.LeanneEllington.com, and to share your thoughts, questions, feedback, or guest suggestions instantly, head on over to www.WhatsGodGotToDoWithIt.com.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
If you want to go on a journey. If you're skeptical,
don't worry. Now here to preach.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Gonna keep it clean and talk to me and recall
where faith need, stars of nature, get in touch with
your creator with a bacon, love and June. She even
speaks Hebrew.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
What's done?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Gotta do? What's that?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
There's a sadfosation.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
You should talking transformation?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
What's that got to do? Hello?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Chip, he could see you. I love you, brought your
good energy again, Thank you so much. Well Sonia even commented,
she said she's heard you, and she said she just
has great energy. I love her energy.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Thank you so Scotch, I appreciate that well. I love yours.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
And I'm so grateful for you to be here because
this you know, the topic of this series is about
why we numb and coping mechanisms. But really, you know,
so many people identify as an addict or they don't
even know that their compulsive behaviors of weighing themselves, the
body imogipsession, the food obsession really takes over their brain
and there's so much shame with it. And so there's
no one better than you to be here for this series.
(01:23):
So just to brag on Chip for just a second.
He has been in the recovery world for decades, and
he developed his own recovery system called the Spiritual Roots System,
and he took it into the recovery world and then
ran a treatment center for twenty two years called the
Center of Professional Excellence, and now still in twenty twenty five,
he's here spreading the love, sharing his truth and the
(01:46):
truth about what addiction is and isn't and I mean
so much more than that. So you've probably know him
best from his book The Voice of the Heart, and
we're going to share all of the ways that you
can find him.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
But he was also on What's God Got to Do
with It? So we'll link that in the show.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
But specifically, we are going to be here for the
next few weeks talking about why we numb the real
root of coping mechanisms, And this is part one of
this series. Today we're going to talk about what is
addiction really okay and the coping mechanisms that become a
trap because a lot of us, I know, I'm talking
to women all the time that they think they identify
(02:21):
as an addict or they feel like something has this
addictive pull over them, but they don't necessarily know what
it is. So we're going to break it down for
you what it looks like on a logic and reason level,
on a behavioral level, on a neuroscientific level.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
But first let's just dive on in. So addiction, obviously.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
We're talking about this before. It's not just about the
substance the thing. It's about how we cope or how
we use the thing, or who we're being in the
face of the fin whether it's food, you know, social media,
weight obsession, whatever it is, right, and so how behaviors
like emotional eating and over exercising and workaholism and even
social media addiction follow those same patterns.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
So can we talk about what is addiction?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
The simplest definition that I have for addiction is it
ends up being an intolerance for vulnerability, and intolerance for vulnerability,
and vulnerability means openness to being affected, to being wounded,
to being seen exposed, to being needy, all the things
(03:21):
that sort of like our mythology of society says you've
got to be stronger than how you're made. And so
really and truly addiction is an attempt to escape how
we're actually created. To run away from how we're made.
There's a saying that the suppression of expression equals depression,
(03:43):
And I don't mean the clinical depression. I'm talking about
depressing how we're created. That we actually are told somewhere
along in our lives that what you're bringing to this
need for connection is not what we're looking for, so
we attempt to disconnect from ourselves. Almost every person who's addicted,
whether they realize it or not, grew up in an
(04:06):
environment where they were the heart of who they are, feedings, needs, desire, longings,
and hope was oppressed pushed away, and then that person
becomes obsessed with the need to belong and matter at
the same time without being who I'm really made to
be as an expressive person. So the need to belong
(04:28):
and matter is still there, but I can't do it
like I'm creating. So I practiced not being myself. So
that's what oppression turns to obsession, obsession with control, and
then that turns into possession and so as crazy it
sounds at first, the thinking takes over the frontal lobe,
(04:49):
the executive functionings takes over for the heart, so it
becomes a mind over heart problem rather than a heart
actually overmind. So recovery is about returning to how we're created.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Wow, and so beautifully put that, it's an escape from
who we are. We never got we never felt safe
to be all of who we are, and so somewhere
along the line we picked up a storyline or a
belief that if I just could go control that obsess
over that, then that'll fill this need. And it wasn't conscious.
We did consciously know we were doing it right. But
it's so powerful to hear that because so often addiction
(05:24):
and compulsion is categorizees just this physiological thing, and that's
the cause and effects, you know, cascade.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
But really, what you're.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Saying I so agree with and what I'm finding with
you know, all of the women that come through my program,
is that it starts at the mental, emotional, spiritual side
of it. And when you address that, then you might
also need to make some altercations.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
In the physical realm, right absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
But that's when everything is possible.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So I sooch and I would even say it even starts,
if we wanted to make a pinpoint start, It actually
starts with this idea that we can't accept ourselves emotionally
it's not our faults the problem. It's not even our
actions that are their problem. It's actually that somehow or another,
it's not okay the way I actually feel. And that's
where the Voice of the Heart book is about our
(06:09):
core feelings. So we end up rejecting literally the core
feelings of how we're created, which actually open up the
door to needs and desire and longings. So guess what.
Once we're growing up in an oppressive place, oppressing the heart,
we don't get to practice learning how to live. We
don't get to practice figuring things out. We don't get
(06:32):
the practice making mistakes. And almost every bit of learning
in life is about practice, which is vulnerability being seen.
So it's almost like we have to have the answers
before we arrive at the problem. We have to have
the answers before we get the questions, and that becomes
the external validation versus internal risking on an external world,
you know. So we eye ourselves and.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
You just defined self rejection at its core, that's where
it starts, that's where it festers outward.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
And then we go as humans.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I've done it too, and now I'm learning is that
like you can't solve an emotional problem with logic and reason.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
And you know that's it.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yes, it is, absolutely and and that's what we do.
So coming back to you know, I love how you
set the stage for this, where this starts, where the
problem is, where it starts, what the real problem is
and what it isn't. So when we're talking about now
the difference between addiction and coping mechanisms, because a lot
of people might not say, well, yes, I'm realizing that
I'm coping with something, whether they don't know what it is,
(07:32):
with food, you know, numbing out on social media, Netflix, whatever,
versus I talk to a lot of women who are
on the other camp where they're like, no, leanne, I
am an addict, right, and they swear they're an addict
to sugar specifically. So you know, there's some coping mechanisms
that can actually help us heal and actually comfort right
and do good, versus others that keep us stuck and
(07:53):
create a toxic cycle. So can you share a bit
about the distinction between not just addiction and coping mechanisms,
but strategies that he.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
In Yeah, you know, it's interesting. A coping mechanism can
be part of an addiction, A coping mechanism can be
part of an addiction, and an addiction is also a
form of coping if you're attempting to escape one thing,
(08:25):
so coping an addiction becomes synonyms if you're attempting to
use your actions to escape having to do one thing,
you're trying to get away from feeling because even of
books about stress management, coping strategies for stress, even those
things can be used to try to escape having to
(08:46):
be human, having to be in need, having to feel
so recovery. Whether it's the use of coping or addiction itself. See,
addiction is not a badness, it's not an evil. It's
an attempt to have normal needs met without having to
be in need. And coping strategies are a way to
(09:06):
make sure that we put ourselves in positions so that
we have a place to go where who we are
and how we live, how who we really are is received.
So the coping strategies need to be actions we take
to stick around people and be with people who can
receive us as God made us as feeling creatures who
(09:27):
have needs, desire, longings, and hope, and we can find
the places to struggle with others who are doing the
same versus struggling with those who judge us for being human. Wow,
So coping strategies need to be getting around people who
have the same strengths we have of being human, so
we're able to tolerate an inhuman world.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yeah, and you're how to be safe in who we
are And this being safe, it's one thing to I
identify that I'm not safe and.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Like have an idea of like, oh what would be safe,
But to be in.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Crist living out being a human being all of who
you are around people where you're safe, that is everything.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
And the safety is actually a place where you can
practice being yourself and then go out into a world
that may not receive it, but you can still practice
being yourself in that world and then come back and resustain. See,
because we're made for relationship. I mean, even neuroscience, more
than ever before, finally has awakened to what we've known forever,
(10:27):
that you come out of the woom looking for who's
looking for you, That we're created to find fulfillment relationship.
And people who are addicted are coping to hide their
feelings all right, or trying to get relationship without having
to be in need. So we need to be in
the places where we can be ourselves so we can
cope with a world that isn't very interested in who
(10:48):
we are. It doesn't mean that you try to hide
from the world. You have the strength to go live it.
And how do we have the strength to go live
in the world. We do that through having relationships that
we're secure in we've belong in matter.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
And it comes back to what we literally started with
with just this concept of vulnerability, where it's like, where
does that even fit into addiction? What might some people
be thinking, But you just said it. It's this idea
of not a feeling like we can't go be in need.
It's what's causing the addiction, and that's a vulnerable place
to be to be like, no, I need connection and
we yeah, there's a.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
World of truth efficiency. Yeah, exactly. It's not a desire,
it's a require and so obviously my you know, my mind.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Desire, it is a required.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
And I love that you brought up the geeky neuroscience
stuff because one of the things I'm talking about all
the time is the anterior singular cortex.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
It's my favorite part of the brain.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
It's the social brain and it's bigger in females and
more active. And that's where I to oversimplify it. What
I teach my clients is that that is where our
addiction and compulsion lives, because it's not what's happening is
we're being overfed by dopamine, right, these hits of dopamine.
That again, now we know what that dopamine is a
response to of not of being needed, but not feeling
(11:58):
comfortable to go be quotes needy, right or receive that
support and that connection that we need.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Not just desire, but require. But so what's happening is
we're going to you're describing.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Even though that need to get hits of dopamine to
get relief, hits a dope way to relieve ourselves from
anxiety exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
But that what happens is that initial hunger what we're
really needing, which is oxytocin. By connection, we are feeding dopamine.
So therefore our brain is being overfed and undernourished. And
it's a cycle cycles.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
And I want your audience to hear that it's not
either or we're made to experience dopamine because we're made
to have relief from fight flight freeze and a piece, okay,
but the thing that dopamine won't answer that both and
and part. We're craving dopamine from a standpoint of relief,
but we're even more craving oxytocin for life giving experience.
(12:51):
So dopamine relieves, oxytocin grants us a full life. One's
a life giving chemical, one's a life relieving chemical. Yes so,
and oxytocin occurs. But we can bring how we're made
and who we're made to be to people who can
receive that. And also people can come get the same
thing from us. So recovery ultimately, no matter what what're
(13:13):
you're recovering from. Recovery Ultimately it's two things. One, I
admit that I don't have control of life, and the
more I try to control it, my life becomes unmanageable.
And then number two, I become somebody others can come
to to receive oxytocin, and I have people to go
to to get oxytocin in no worries. Not only am
(13:34):
I safe, but I'm cared about and that strengthens me
to go risk being myself in a world that's not
very interested in me, or a world that is coping
with sickness or addicted and leanne. You and I both
know that, and so many people talk what the pandemic
really is. We talked about the pandemic was COVID, and
(13:55):
that became a word that everybody knew suddenly. But the
real pandemic in our societ is addiction because there are
over two hundred million plus people who carry addiction, and
addiction ultimately is about running from feelings. So guess what
if you deal with feelings in a healthy way, you
(14:16):
get recovery from that which would silence you, numb you
knock you out, anesthetize you, or literally control your life
to the standpoint that even when you walk outside your
own home, you're obsessed with the appearance of what people
think about what you look like. And the only power
hits are. The only sense of security you have is
(14:37):
somebody affirming your outsides, but nobody really being interested in
your insights.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Absolutely, and insights heals even just a stap on that
because what you said is just so beautiful, I believe
are The first thing is like.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
We have to become interested in our insights.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yes, you know what I mean, and we run away from.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Yeah, absolutely, and learn how to be emotionally available to ourselves,
and a lot of times that means going and getting
support and being in need.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
But they have to learn to wake that ticker up.
Because a lot of women, specifically that I work with,
and I know it's men too, were desensitized. We don't
even know when those alarm bells are going off anymore.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
That is so true. And there really is a thing
called denial, and denial does not mean you're lying. Denial
means you really don't see, means you're blind. I was
talking to a woman this morning and she went to
her first adult Children of Alcoholics meetings, and she wasn't
raised in alcoholic home, but it's for dysfunctional families. A
dysfunctional family is a feeling that doesn't deal with feelings
(15:32):
in a healthy way period. And she said that she
shared a little bit, and then she said that all
these other people shared, and she said, I just kept thinking,
me too, me too, And she said, I've never met
these people my whole life, and I felt like it
was okay. But and that's how you that's how you
(15:53):
know you're getting into recovery when you go to a
meeting and you look around and you're not going. That's
not me, that's not me. You're actually going this is
me too. Your home now at very quickly. But all
of us are born to have a home. And then
if you don't have a home, you still look for one. Okay,
what is a home? A home is a sanctuary, and
(16:14):
it's a place where the front porch light's always on,
the door's always unlocked, and the table set ready for
your return, and there's someone there who says, oh, no, no, no,
I'm doing the cooking, the cleaning. I'm taking care of
you until you can take care of you. And so
we all need that place where we can bring our neediness.
(16:36):
And then once addiction kicks in, we don't believe a
place like that exists or not for me, because I'm
not worth it. And the thing is, you're born worth it.
And if you don't know you're worth it, then it's
not that it went away, it's that it got buried
by the people who you needed to be home with.
(16:58):
So almost all addiction and all of our coping sicker
coping skills are all about from I hate to say
it this way, but what happened to the feelings in
your growing up experience. If you come from a place
of feeling, you're almost certainly not going to wind up
in a postion position called addiction.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
And I'll just finish by saying this because I have
to plug your Voice of the heartbook for just a moment.
But I think a lot of people think they have
to go dig up all of the skeletons into brave
yard from the past. And what I talk about is
like you can get very yes you want to become
aware of it, but getting out very right now, solutions
focused and almost start like adulting yourself through these feelings
that never got reconciled. And so if you're looking for
(17:37):
a tool to do that, the Voice of the Heart
is just it's literally a guide of how to feel
and to it'll you'll be able to recognize where you've
fit in the spectrum of almost you know, the suppressing
of it versus you know how to health use a
healthy coping mechanism to experience your feels before.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
We dive off. Can how can people find you stock?
Speaker 2 (17:56):
You find out all chipdod dot com and you'll get
into chip DoD resources, free resources recommendations, and it takes
you also to the living with Heart podcasts, Living with
Heart from Birth to Death, and then of course it
takes you to eight different books that I've written. In fact,
(18:19):
the Voice of the Heart is a seminal work. It
was written a long time ago. It was the first
emotions book actually written in terms of if we look
at in terms of bibliogphy, it's crazy. I didn't know
that was writing the first emotions book.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
You know, now like so widely and popularity used by
all therapists.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yes, that's what we felt everywhere.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah, yes, and you know what it came out. It
came out to the sounds of crickets. And now it's
become like almost like it was a little far ahead. Yeah,
And actually all it did was named something ancient. We're
created as creatures who were made for relationship, and that
heart actually really is created to take precedents over our thinking.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Absolutely, And we did a whole episode all about the
Voice of the Heart, so I will link that in
the show notes from the Godpod. But don't worry, we're
not done, because we're going to be back next week
with episode two of this series where we're going to
talk about why we numb and the real reason we
avoid pain and seek comfort. So we got into it
a bit today, but we're going to get to go
narrow and deeper, so we will see you next time.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
We'll be back with more What's God Got to Do
with It?
Speaker 3 (19:28):
But in the meantime, I would definitely love to hear
from you, so just tell me where you are in
your story or maybe what questions you have, like where
do you feel you need clarity or support or wisdom
in your own journey. I definitely want to hear from you,
So head on over to What's God Got to Do
with It? Dot com and scroll down to the form
(19:49):
to share your thoughts, your questions, your feedback, and you
can do that instantly. So What's God Got to Do
with It? Dot com You'll find all the ways to
do that. And if you like this podcast and want
to hear more, go ahead and follow, like, and subscribe
wherever you listen to podcasts to get your weekly dose
of What's God Got to Do With It? New episodes
(20:10):
drop every single Tuesday, and while you're there, be sure
to rate and review to show your support. It really
means so much. What's God Got to Do With It?
Is an iHeartRadio podcast on the Amy Brown Podcast Network.
It's written and hosted by me Leanne Ellington, executive produced
by Elizabeth Fozzio, post production and editing by Houston Tilley,
(20:33):
and original music written by Cheryl Stark and produced by
Adam Stark
If you want to go on a journey. If you're skeptical,
don't worry. Now here to preach.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Gonna keep it clean and talk to me and recall
where faith need, stars of nature, get in touch with
your creator with a bacon, love and June. She even
speaks Hebrew.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
What's done?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Gotta do? What's that?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
There's a sadfosation.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
You should talking transformation?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
What's that got to do? Hello?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Chip, he could see you. I love you, brought your
good energy again, Thank you so much. Well Sonia even commented,
she said she's heard you, and she said she just
has great energy. I love her energy.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Thank you so Scotch, I appreciate that well. I love yours.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
And I'm so grateful for you to be here because
this you know, the topic of this series is about
why we numb and coping mechanisms. But really, you know,
so many people identify as an addict or they don't
even know that their compulsive behaviors of weighing themselves, the
body imogipsession, the food obsession really takes over their brain
and there's so much shame with it. And so there's
no one better than you to be here for this series.
(01:23):
So just to brag on Chip for just a second.
He has been in the recovery world for decades, and
he developed his own recovery system called the Spiritual Roots System,
and he took it into the recovery world and then
ran a treatment center for twenty two years called the
Center of Professional Excellence, and now still in twenty twenty five,
he's here spreading the love, sharing his truth and the
(01:46):
truth about what addiction is and isn't and I mean
so much more than that. So you've probably know him
best from his book The Voice of the Heart, and
we're going to share all of the ways that you
can find him.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
But he was also on What's God Got to Do
with It? So we'll link that in the show.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
But specifically, we are going to be here for the
next few weeks talking about why we numb the real
root of coping mechanisms, And this is part one of
this series. Today we're going to talk about what is
addiction really okay and the coping mechanisms that become a
trap because a lot of us, I know, I'm talking
to women all the time that they think they identify
(02:21):
as an addict or they feel like something has this
addictive pull over them, but they don't necessarily know what
it is. So we're going to break it down for
you what it looks like on a logic and reason level,
on a behavioral level, on a neuroscientific level.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
But first let's just dive on in. So addiction, obviously.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
We're talking about this before. It's not just about the
substance the thing. It's about how we cope or how
we use the thing, or who we're being in the
face of the fin whether it's food, you know, social media,
weight obsession, whatever it is, right, and so how behaviors
like emotional eating and over exercising and workaholism and even
social media addiction follow those same patterns.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
So can we talk about what is addiction?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
The simplest definition that I have for addiction is it
ends up being an intolerance for vulnerability, and intolerance for vulnerability,
and vulnerability means openness to being affected, to being wounded,
to being seen exposed, to being needy, all the things
(03:21):
that sort of like our mythology of society says you've
got to be stronger than how you're made. And so
really and truly addiction is an attempt to escape how
we're actually created. To run away from how we're made.
There's a saying that the suppression of expression equals depression,
(03:43):
And I don't mean the clinical depression. I'm talking about
depressing how we're created. That we actually are told somewhere
along in our lives that what you're bringing to this
need for connection is not what we're looking for, so
we attempt to disconnect from ourselves. Almost every person who's addicted,
whether they realize it or not, grew up in an
(04:06):
environment where they were the heart of who they are, feedings, needs, desire, longings,
and hope was oppressed pushed away, and then that person
becomes obsessed with the need to belong and matter at
the same time without being who I'm really made to
be as an expressive person. So the need to belong
(04:28):
and matter is still there, but I can't do it
like I'm creating. So I practiced not being myself. So
that's what oppression turns to obsession, obsession with control, and
then that turns into possession and so as crazy it
sounds at first, the thinking takes over the frontal lobe,
(04:49):
the executive functionings takes over for the heart, so it
becomes a mind over heart problem rather than a heart
actually overmind. So recovery is about returning to how we're created.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Wow, and so beautifully put that, it's an escape from
who we are. We never got we never felt safe
to be all of who we are, and so somewhere
along the line we picked up a storyline or a
belief that if I just could go control that obsess
over that, then that'll fill this need. And it wasn't conscious.
We did consciously know we were doing it right. But
it's so powerful to hear that because so often addiction
(05:24):
and compulsion is categorizees just this physiological thing, and that's
the cause and effects, you know, cascade.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
But really, what you're.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Saying I so agree with and what I'm finding with
you know, all of the women that come through my program,
is that it starts at the mental, emotional, spiritual side
of it. And when you address that, then you might
also need to make some altercations.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
In the physical realm, right absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
But that's when everything is possible.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So I sooch and I would even say it even starts,
if we wanted to make a pinpoint start, It actually
starts with this idea that we can't accept ourselves emotionally
it's not our faults the problem. It's not even our
actions that are their problem. It's actually that somehow or another,
it's not okay the way I actually feel. And that's
where the Voice of the Heart book is about our
(06:09):
core feelings. So we end up rejecting literally the core
feelings of how we're created, which actually open up the
door to needs and desire and longings. So guess what.
Once we're growing up in an oppressive place, oppressing the heart,
we don't get to practice learning how to live. We
don't get to practice figuring things out. We don't get
(06:32):
the practice making mistakes. And almost every bit of learning
in life is about practice, which is vulnerability being seen.
So it's almost like we have to have the answers
before we arrive at the problem. We have to have
the answers before we get the questions, and that becomes
the external validation versus internal risking on an external world,
you know. So we eye ourselves and.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
You just defined self rejection at its core, that's where
it starts, that's where it festers outward.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
And then we go as humans.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I've done it too, and now I'm learning is that
like you can't solve an emotional problem with logic and reason.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
And you know that's it.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yes, it is, absolutely and and that's what we do.
So coming back to you know, I love how you
set the stage for this, where this starts, where the
problem is, where it starts, what the real problem is
and what it isn't. So when we're talking about now
the difference between addiction and coping mechanisms, because a lot
of people might not say, well, yes, I'm realizing that
I'm coping with something, whether they don't know what it is,
(07:32):
with food, you know, numbing out on social media, Netflix, whatever,
versus I talk to a lot of women who are
on the other camp where they're like, no, leanne, I
am an addict, right, and they swear they're an addict
to sugar specifically. So you know, there's some coping mechanisms
that can actually help us heal and actually comfort right
and do good, versus others that keep us stuck and
(07:53):
create a toxic cycle. So can you share a bit
about the distinction between not just addiction and coping mechanisms,
but strategies that he.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
In Yeah, you know, it's interesting. A coping mechanism can
be part of an addiction, A coping mechanism can be
part of an addiction, and an addiction is also a
form of coping if you're attempting to escape one thing,
(08:25):
so coping an addiction becomes synonyms if you're attempting to
use your actions to escape having to do one thing,
you're trying to get away from feeling because even of
books about stress management, coping strategies for stress, even those
things can be used to try to escape having to
(08:46):
be human, having to be in need, having to feel
so recovery. Whether it's the use of coping or addiction itself. See,
addiction is not a badness, it's not an evil. It's
an attempt to have normal needs met without having to
be in need. And coping strategies are a way to
(09:06):
make sure that we put ourselves in positions so that
we have a place to go where who we are
and how we live, how who we really are is received.
So the coping strategies need to be actions we take
to stick around people and be with people who can
receive us as God made us as feeling creatures who
(09:27):
have needs, desire, longings, and hope, and we can find
the places to struggle with others who are doing the
same versus struggling with those who judge us for being human. Wow,
So coping strategies need to be getting around people who
have the same strengths we have of being human, so
we're able to tolerate an inhuman world.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yeah, and you're how to be safe in who we
are And this being safe, it's one thing to I
identify that I'm not safe and.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Like have an idea of like, oh what would be safe,
But to be in.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Crist living out being a human being all of who
you are around people where you're safe, that is everything.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
And the safety is actually a place where you can
practice being yourself and then go out into a world
that may not receive it, but you can still practice
being yourself in that world and then come back and resustain. See,
because we're made for relationship. I mean, even neuroscience, more
than ever before, finally has awakened to what we've known forever,
(10:27):
that you come out of the woom looking for who's
looking for you, That we're created to find fulfillment relationship.
And people who are addicted are coping to hide their
feelings all right, or trying to get relationship without having
to be in need. So we need to be in
the places where we can be ourselves so we can
cope with a world that isn't very interested in who
(10:48):
we are. It doesn't mean that you try to hide
from the world. You have the strength to go live it.
And how do we have the strength to go live
in the world. We do that through having relationships that
we're secure in we've belong in matter.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
And it comes back to what we literally started with
with just this concept of vulnerability, where it's like, where
does that even fit into addiction? What might some people
be thinking, But you just said it. It's this idea
of not a feeling like we can't go be in need.
It's what's causing the addiction, and that's a vulnerable place
to be to be like, no, I need connection and
we yeah, there's a.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
World of truth efficiency. Yeah, exactly. It's not a desire,
it's a require and so obviously my you know, my mind.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Desire, it is a required.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
And I love that you brought up the geeky neuroscience
stuff because one of the things I'm talking about all
the time is the anterior singular cortex.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
It's my favorite part of the brain.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
It's the social brain and it's bigger in females and
more active. And that's where I to oversimplify it. What
I teach my clients is that that is where our
addiction and compulsion lives, because it's not what's happening is
we're being overfed by dopamine, right, these hits of dopamine.
That again, now we know what that dopamine is a
response to of not of being needed, but not feeling
(11:58):
comfortable to go be quotes needy, right or receive that
support and that connection that we need.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Not just desire, but require. But so what's happening is
we're going to you're describing.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Even though that need to get hits of dopamine to
get relief, hits a dope way to relieve ourselves from
anxiety exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
But that what happens is that initial hunger what we're
really needing, which is oxytocin. By connection, we are feeding dopamine.
So therefore our brain is being overfed and undernourished. And
it's a cycle cycles.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
And I want your audience to hear that it's not
either or we're made to experience dopamine because we're made
to have relief from fight flight freeze and a piece, okay,
but the thing that dopamine won't answer that both and
and part. We're craving dopamine from a standpoint of relief,
but we're even more craving oxytocin for life giving experience.
(12:51):
So dopamine relieves, oxytocin grants us a full life. One's
a life giving chemical, one's a life relieving chemical. Yes so,
and oxytocin occurs. But we can bring how we're made
and who we're made to be to people who can
receive that. And also people can come get the same
thing from us. So recovery ultimately, no matter what what're
(13:13):
you're recovering from. Recovery Ultimately it's two things. One, I
admit that I don't have control of life, and the
more I try to control it, my life becomes unmanageable.
And then number two, I become somebody others can come
to to receive oxytocin, and I have people to go
to to get oxytocin in no worries. Not only am
(13:34):
I safe, but I'm cared about and that strengthens me
to go risk being myself in a world that's not
very interested in me, or a world that is coping
with sickness or addicted and leanne. You and I both
know that, and so many people talk what the pandemic
really is. We talked about the pandemic was COVID, and
(13:55):
that became a word that everybody knew suddenly. But the
real pandemic in our societ is addiction because there are
over two hundred million plus people who carry addiction, and
addiction ultimately is about running from feelings. So guess what
if you deal with feelings in a healthy way, you
(14:16):
get recovery from that which would silence you, numb you
knock you out, anesthetize you, or literally control your life
to the standpoint that even when you walk outside your
own home, you're obsessed with the appearance of what people
think about what you look like. And the only power
hits are. The only sense of security you have is
(14:37):
somebody affirming your outsides, but nobody really being interested in
your insights.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Absolutely, and insights heals even just a stap on that
because what you said is just so beautiful, I believe
are The first thing is like.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
We have to become interested in our insights.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yes, you know what I mean, and we run away from.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Yeah, absolutely, and learn how to be emotionally available to ourselves,
and a lot of times that means going and getting
support and being in need.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
But they have to learn to wake that ticker up.
Because a lot of women, specifically that I work with,
and I know it's men too, were desensitized. We don't
even know when those alarm bells are going off anymore.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
That is so true. And there really is a thing
called denial, and denial does not mean you're lying. Denial
means you really don't see, means you're blind. I was
talking to a woman this morning and she went to
her first adult Children of Alcoholics meetings, and she wasn't
raised in alcoholic home, but it's for dysfunctional families. A
dysfunctional family is a feeling that doesn't deal with feelings
(15:32):
in a healthy way period. And she said that she
shared a little bit, and then she said that all
these other people shared, and she said, I just kept thinking,
me too, me too, And she said, I've never met
these people my whole life, and I felt like it
was okay. But and that's how you that's how you
(15:53):
know you're getting into recovery when you go to a
meeting and you look around and you're not going. That's
not me, that's not me. You're actually going this is
me too. Your home now at very quickly. But all
of us are born to have a home. And then
if you don't have a home, you still look for one. Okay,
what is a home? A home is a sanctuary, and
(16:14):
it's a place where the front porch light's always on,
the door's always unlocked, and the table set ready for
your return, and there's someone there who says, oh, no, no, no,
I'm doing the cooking, the cleaning. I'm taking care of
you until you can take care of you. And so
we all need that place where we can bring our neediness.
(16:36):
And then once addiction kicks in, we don't believe a
place like that exists or not for me, because I'm
not worth it. And the thing is, you're born worth it.
And if you don't know you're worth it, then it's
not that it went away, it's that it got buried
by the people who you needed to be home with.
(16:58):
So almost all addiction and all of our coping sicker
coping skills are all about from I hate to say
it this way, but what happened to the feelings in
your growing up experience. If you come from a place
of feeling, you're almost certainly not going to wind up
in a postion position called addiction.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
And I'll just finish by saying this because I have
to plug your Voice of the heartbook for just a moment.
But I think a lot of people think they have
to go dig up all of the skeletons into brave
yard from the past. And what I talk about is
like you can get very yes you want to become
aware of it, but getting out very right now, solutions
focused and almost start like adulting yourself through these feelings
that never got reconciled. And so if you're looking for
(17:37):
a tool to do that, the Voice of the Heart
is just it's literally a guide of how to feel
and to it'll you'll be able to recognize where you've
fit in the spectrum of almost you know, the suppressing
of it versus you know how to health use a
healthy coping mechanism to experience your feels before.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
We dive off. Can how can people find you stock?
Speaker 2 (17:56):
You find out all chipdod dot com and you'll get
into chip DoD resources, free resources recommendations, and it takes
you also to the living with Heart podcasts, Living with
Heart from Birth to Death, and then of course it
takes you to eight different books that I've written. In fact,
(18:19):
the Voice of the Heart is a seminal work. It
was written a long time ago. It was the first
emotions book actually written in terms of if we look
at in terms of bibliogphy, it's crazy. I didn't know
that was writing the first emotions book.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
You know, now like so widely and popularity used by
all therapists.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yes, that's what we felt everywhere.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah, yes, and you know what it came out. It
came out to the sounds of crickets. And now it's
become like almost like it was a little far ahead. Yeah,
And actually all it did was named something ancient. We're
created as creatures who were made for relationship, and that
heart actually really is created to take precedents over our thinking.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Absolutely, And we did a whole episode all about the
Voice of the Heart, so I will link that in
the show notes from the Godpod. But don't worry, we're
not done, because we're going to be back next week
with episode two of this series where we're going to
talk about why we numb and the real reason we
avoid pain and seek comfort. So we got into it
a bit today, but we're going to get to go
narrow and deeper, so we will see you next time.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
We'll be back with more What's God Got to Do
with It?
Speaker 3 (19:28):
But in the meantime, I would definitely love to hear
from you, so just tell me where you are in
your story or maybe what questions you have, like where
do you feel you need clarity or support or wisdom
in your own journey. I definitely want to hear from you,
So head on over to What's God Got to Do
with It? Dot com and scroll down to the form
(19:49):
to share your thoughts, your questions, your feedback, and you
can do that instantly. So What's God Got to Do
with It? Dot com You'll find all the ways to
do that. And if you like this podcast and want
to hear more, go ahead and follow, like, and subscribe
wherever you listen to podcasts to get your weekly dose
of What's God Got to Do With It? New episodes
(20:10):
drop every single Tuesday, and while you're there, be sure
to rate and review to show your support. It really
means so much. What's God Got to Do With It?
Is an iHeartRadio podcast on the Amy Brown Podcast Network.
It's written and hosted by me Leanne Ellington, executive produced
by Elizabeth Fozzio, post production and editing by Houston Tilley,
(20:33):
and original music written by Cheryl Stark and produced by
Adam Stark
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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