July 17, 2026 • 19 mins
Why do we turn to food, alcohol, shopping, or even busyness when life feels overwhelming? In this episode, Chip and Leanne dive into the real reason we numb—what we’re actually trying to escape or avoid—and how society conditions us to suppress rather than process emotions. They break down the neuroscience behind coping mechanisms, revealing why they provide short-term relief but lead to long-term suffering. If you’ve ever wondered why breaking free from old habits feels impossible, this episode will give you the clarity you need to start shifting your patterns.
Visit Chip's website at: ChipDodd.com
You can order your copy of Chip's book, The Voice of the Heart: A Call To Full Living HERE.
Listen to the Living With Heart Podcast HERE.
HOST: Leanne Ellington // StresslessEating.com // @leanneellington
To learn more about Leanne, head over to www.LeanneEllington.com, and to share your thoughts, questions, feedback, or guest suggestions instantly, head on over to www.WhatsGodGotToDoWithIt.com.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
If you want to go on a journey.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
If you're skeptical, don't worry.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
No good to preach, gonna keep it clean and talk
to me and recad where faith means files of nature
and get in touch with your creator with a bacon,
love and June. She even speaks Hebrew. What's done?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Gonza?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
What's that? Well sabomation, hil talking transformation, what's done? Donzato.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
We are back for part two of this four part
mini series here with doctor Chip Dodd.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Hello, good to see you, Yes, good to have you back.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Last week was a powerful conversation if you missed it,
we got into what is addiction really right, not just
the you know, theoretical version of it, but we talked
about it on a science level, on a logistics level,
and then of course on a cause and effect level
from where it's truly rooted, which is in the heart,
in the feelings, in the soul and the spirit.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So we are back now to talk about why.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
We numb and the real reason we avoid pain and
seek comfort. And so last week we talked a little
bit about, you know, why we turn to food and
alcohol and shopping and relationships, even busyness like hustling for
our worthiness nowadays has become a bit of an addiction.
But what we're really trying to escape or avoid? So
can we just you know, we pick up from where
(01:35):
we were last week when we're trying to escape or avoid, like,
what is that? What are we doing? And why are
we turning to those coping.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Mechanisms with you? This is going to sound strange at first,
but we actually, and this goes to probably sound very strange,
we have two enemies. We have society at large that
measures everything externally and judges accordingly right, judges like that.
And then our real primary enimy me is the brain itself.
(02:03):
Now I don't mean the whole brain, okay, but the
brain is doing exactly what it's made to do. I'm
talking about our frontal lobe logic and our executive functioning
is created to find places where there isn't pain. So
your brain as the organ, is actually a comfort seeking,
pleasure seeking instrument doing what's made to do, which means
(02:24):
pain avoidant. Okay, So your brain is doing its job
to helping you avoid honestly having to feel and having
to be indeed or having to be in situations in
which you are vulnerable, which means don't have control. Okay, Now,
so your brain is oddly pain intolerant. That's how come
your thinking can't sob can't bring you to healing because
(02:47):
your thinking is opposed to what it takes to heal.
All right, So, but your brain is intolerant for pain.
And here's the beauty. Your heart is pain tolerant. Okay,
I mean your emotional center of your being is a
pain tolerant place. You don't have to like the pain,
(03:09):
but you find that somehow or another, you're capable of
tolerating the pain. Love is painful, child bearing is painful,
Recovery is painful. And a woman named Marian Diamond, she
was the inventor of neuroplasticity, which is where we get
the idea that the brain could be changed from where
it was to a different place. This is in nineteen sixties,
(03:30):
and she was disregarded for two three decades almost And
she's the one that came up with the phrase use
it or lose it. And so she discovered there are
five ways to create what she called brain health. But
the truth was she actually had discovered, in my opinion,
she had actually discovered the five ways that the heart
(03:52):
overcomes the brain, and so that we will quote choose
health over comfort, and the five ways for us to
be maximum maximumly fulfilled. She said, she discovered nutrition, exercise, risking,
seeing new things, taking on challenges, and love. I mean,
(04:13):
these things are scientifically proven. But if you'll notice all
five of those things, eating, healthy, exercise, seeing new things,
taking on challenges, and love, all five of them require pain.
We have to delay gratification for benefits. And so if
you're not raised in a world where feelings are forms
(04:36):
of strength, see now we're being raised more than ever before.
Children are being raised with having feelings, but the feedings
in so many ways because the parents don't trust them.
The feedings become permission to not have to risk, rather
than yes, you're gonna feel it, but I'll be here
when you're done. Yes, okay, versus don't feel it, and
so many of us came from but don't feel it,
(04:58):
And now there's great permission to feel nobody could tolerate them.
So there's a but there's a tweeter world. It's called
delay gratification for benefit, and all of recovery is about
taking the risk of having feelings to delay gratification, but
it's a promise of gratification being better than satisfaction. When
I eat an apple pie muffin, I mean, just go
(05:20):
down the list. It hits the blood brain barrier in seconds.
If I eat healthy, I have to wait for the
benefit to ucome. And it all has to do with
feelings like I won't be okay your brain, and your
brain is literally saying, look, you can do this tomorrow.
Let's wait till tomorrow. I promise tomorrow will be a
great day, but tonight for right now. And then when
(05:44):
we go through the thing that that makes us comfortable,
we wind up judging ourselves for being weak, and we
weren't weak. We're not weak.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
What the brain is we're with the brains telling us
to do to avoid feeling because your brain is a
mechanism that I want to take care of you, right,
And that's why it's so important for us to learn
and take back ownership from our brain and influence it
in the direction that it needs to go rich than
having it drive us around.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Yes, so, but what is it that takes control of
the brain, And it's the one thing we run from heart,
the heart. I know it sounds so weird, But the
heart is created by God to take precedence over the brain.
In fact, the God Peace here in Proverbs four twenty
three says above all else, I mean, like above everything else.
(06:33):
It says guard your heart, And it doesn't mean lock
it in prison and be set it free and treasure
it both. It's very valuable part of you to guard
your heart above all else, because out of it flow
all the issues of life. Another translation says, because it's
the well spring of life. So if you don't know
your heart, you'll never be free. If you don't have
(06:54):
your heart, you'll never be courageous. If you don't have
your heart, you can't be really curious. Everything's about controlling
rather than experiencing.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
And so if you have ever heard yourself feeling like
or identified with this whole, you know short term gratification trap.
Not only did you just get the neuroscientific explanation from
doctor Chip DoD over here, but also you know again
you cannot solve a logical problem or emotional problem with
this logic and reason, you know, And it's it's a.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Hard In fact, all addiction is a logic problem. Yeah.
In other words, it's trusting the logic too much. If
I do this, I'll get that. If I get that,
I'll do this if I do And your logic will
always take you away from having to deal with feelings.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
They'll always win every drum.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Yeah, every one of us who goes and does something
that we know ahead of time is going to hurt us, right,
and we do it anyway. It's not because we're stupid,
it's because the logic said, go there, absolutely avoid feeling.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
And I have so many conversations with these highly intelligent
women and they're like, leanne, I'm so good everything else,
And I tell them, this is not an intelligence problem.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
This is not lack of you know it.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Is really it's so much deeper, and it's hardwired. It's
a product of cause and effective. A lot of times,
decades or a lifetime of these practices where the brain
has gotten hijacked.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Hijack or is the doing the hijacking.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
And gets hijacked, and people are very successful through their thinking.
Almost most of the people that I treated years ago
at the Center for Professional Excellence, most of those people
were highly influential, highly achieved, super people, pleasing people. I've
talked about politicians, the lawyers, the doctors and so on,
male and female. I remember I would say to them, Look,
(08:43):
you're intelligent, amazingly. I know you're smarter than I am.
I know that you have the willpower of like a rhinoceros.
You know, I mean your toughest nails. You couldn't endure
what you've endured, even residency for example, in medical school.
And you're moral. I mean you seek So that's a
form of morality if nothing else. You know how to
(09:03):
hide your secrets cause you fear being judged. But I'm saying,
you're so smart, you're so tough, and you're so strong,
but you look stupid, you look weak, and you look bad.
But we know you're not, because it's proven that you're not.
So you don't have an intelligence problem. You don't have
a willpower problem. Yeah, you don't have a moral problem.
You have a heart problem, honestly, not taking a risk
(09:23):
of trusting honestly, that limbic system, that part of your
brain that is the emotional center and the long term
memory center. Yeah you know.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, the elephant that never forgets that have boonianfas.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Yea. So let's talk about avoidance, okay, because this is
a big one no matter who's listening, I know we've
all that can be procrastination.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Avoidance, numbing. So let's talk about avoidance.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Why does that happen? And I feel like there is
not that we're making this a you know, society's bad conversation,
but there is a societal pattern of kind of teaching
us to numb instead of process avoidance and how that
just continues that disconnect ourselves.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
You know, talk about that avoidance is actually just an
impaired expression of wisdom. And what I mean by that
because see, wisdom, wisdom is because I've experienced life, I've
learned from it, and I know how to process the
feelings of it. Wisdom becomes a sense of intuitively knowing
when to do something and when not to. Avoidance is
(10:24):
a beat up form of wisdom that says, I don't
want to have to feel that, I don't want to
have to risk that, I don't want to be told
I'm wrong. So avoidance becomes like a beat up form
of wisdom and also a demand for perfectionism, like I'm
not even going to step into yeah, And so it's
part of the control addiction, and ultimately, in all addiction,
(10:50):
all impairments related to addiction, because the core addiction is
control addiction that out of which comes all the expressions
of our multi layered, multi dimensional, multi factorial expressions of
the sickness of addiction. Whether it's you know, like the
disordered eating eating disorders. It could be you know, like
(11:13):
the drug of choice in this area. It can be
believe it or not, some taking something very healthy and
taking it to extremes. It was like even spinning things
to avoid having to face things. I mean, the politicians
expertise is the addiction of spinning, and it's an addiction
to avoiding to have to avoid having to actually stand
(11:35):
up and say this is where I am, this is
what I feel, because we're trying to keep ourselves brain
safe rather than carry the integrity of their own hearts.
That makes sense, absolutely, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
No, for sure.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
And then the avoidance itself becomes its own identity of
like the well, this is just what I do, this
is who I am, and then they forget that again
it's just and then there's a numbing that comes with
the avoidance because you.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Don't even know what you're doing, like what you're hiding
from anymore.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
So a lot of times I'll ask a woman, you know,
why does she think it is that she's not able
to do?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Is there something?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Is there a story that she's telling herself, a thought
that she's thinking, a fear that she has. And the
answer often is like, I don't even know.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I've never asked myself.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
That's a great that's a great question you're asking. And
avoidance is always about not having to touch a feeling
I don't know what to do with. I mean, avoidance
is about not having to feel. I know it sounds,
you know, I sound like I'm what one trick pony,
But I'm telling you it's the most astounding thing. Every
one of our problems that isn't just truly a sort
(12:41):
of genetic neurophysiological purely, you know, like a brain's broken,
so to speak. Every one of our problems has to
do with avoiding, over extending, reacting to doing everything we
can to keep from having to do one thing. Feel
our feelings, tell the truth about them, and trust that
(13:02):
there's a process that allows us to heal from even
feelings we don't want to have. That's it. I know
it sounds, so it's well.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I think people need to hear the oversimplification, because I
think that what a lot of people are being told
is that it is a willpower problem.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
In order you need to avoid restrict control, which.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Is creating more of the problem, absolutely, versus like, well,
why don't we look at what hole am I trying to.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Fill a void of with food, social media, whatever?
Speaker 3 (13:26):
And how do I learn how to become emotionally and
spiritually available to myself in those moments rather than turning
to food.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Jesus was so clear, unless you change and become like
and he said one of these. He was literally talking
about a three year old child standing at his knee,
and he said, unless you change and become like one
of these. And I just said something that every child
can understand, and every child already knows. What are you feeling?
(13:53):
What's the truth? What happened that you feel this way? Right?
And what do you want related to it? In other words,
there's a process that will bring you back to oxytocin,
which is the chemistry of truly being connected, life giving,
which is strength for the day we're all made to
have relationship with heart to heart.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Absolutely, yeah, I talk about oxytocin as being like the
emotional safety hormone because it's like, if you don't feel
emotionally safe, you can't be or do anything.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Isn't it true too that oxytocin if everything I've read
and I understand so far, it is the only neurochemical
that you can't produce synthetically, Yes, it is.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
You can't produce it synthetically.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
And that's what all of our addiction is an attempt
to produce the relational connection chemical without having dear risk.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Social brain, not this on licking reason and where the
dopamine is coming in.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah you can so, but we're trying. We're trying to
produce it.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
We're chancing after that quick high, that quick hit, rather
than learning. And it's not even like we talked about
last week. We're not doing it on purpose. Our brain
is doing it without our consent. And that's where we
need to get in there and do some you know,
you know when.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
You said like once, we're sort of like blocked in
heart once we sort of have noun to our hearts
and we're not able to receive oxytocin. We're still in
search of it. Like this is, as example, just you
and I doing this podcast today, this episode today. When
it's finished, you and I will have had an oxytocin experience.
(15:28):
It's not just babies being born to touch with caregivers.
But I have to be willing to believe it. You
have to be willing to believe it because in the
last episode that we did after it was always like, hey,
you said that was good. I'm like, yeah, I think
that was good. But will I believe it? Because if
I can't receive it, which means trust another person, I
(15:49):
won't get the oxytocin. So I've got to be able
and we all have to be able to ask you
mean it you telling the truth. We all have to
be willing to doubt the people who are caring about
us just oh thank you or a reject see avoidance
that you brought up. Avoidance has everything to do with
not trusting. And if you can't trust, you can't receive.
(16:12):
If you can't receive, you remain isolated, and addiction is
the ultimate best next choice. Yeah, Richid whatever.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Receivership is a teachable skill, Like I don't mean to
make it sound robotic like that, but it is like
opening your heart and then the receivership of receiving that,
not just the oxytocin but feeling.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Worthy of love and belonging all of those things.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Even saying like I'm afraid to believe you is a
beginning of experiencing oxytocin that chrisk you say I'm afraid
and be received and not rejected is a trust experience,
which is a life giving experience, which is a skill
that's been gained, which is a faith that's been attained to.
Maybe I could do that again and turn out, Okay,
we're renewing ourselves, we're regrowing all that sort of thing.
(16:55):
Seeding feeding's heal. You got to feel it to heal it.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
You sure knew if you can't see it.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Yeah, And it doesn't have it doesn't always have to mean,
like you said, go into a gred yard and digging
up every tasket in there.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Absolutely it could be right now, right now, starting today,
right amen.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
I would love it. I love this conversation.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Well, we're going to be back next week where we
talk about healing from the inside out and breaking free
from the need to, not just like trying not to knowne,
but breaking free from that actual need to.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Where could you find me at chipdod dot com, c
h I P d O d D dot com also
Spotify at Amazon. The Living with Heart from Birth to
Death podcast. I really encourage people to listen to that
because there's so much in it. I get to be unbridled,
which is really good. And go beyond the Voice of
(17:46):
the Heart book. I mean, I'm getting to go way
beyond Voice of the Art book.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
So those are two ways that I would love to
hear from people, and I'd love for people to get
on the podcast amazing.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, and definitely check out The Voice of the Heart.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
You will not be sorry.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
We will be back next week for the third part
of this series, so y'll see then bye, thank you.
We'll be back with more What's God Got to Do
with It? But in the meantime, I would definitely love
to hear from you, So just tell me where you
are in your story or maybe what questions you have,
like where do you feel you need clarity or support
(18:21):
or wisdom in your own journey. I definitely want to
hear from you, So head on over to What's God
Got to Do with It dot com and scroll down
to the form to share your thoughts, your questions, your feedback,
and you can do that instantly. So, What's God Got
to Do With it dot com. You'll find all the
ways to do that, And if you like this podcast
(18:41):
and want to hear more, go ahead and follow, like,
and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts to get your
weekly dose.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Of What's God Got to Do With It?
Speaker 3 (18:50):
New episodes drop every single Tuesday, and while you're there,
be sure to rate and review to show your support.
It really means so much. What's God Got to Do
With It is an iHeartRadio podcast on the Amy Brown
Podcast Network. It's written and hosted by me Leanne Ellington,
executive produced by Elizabeth Fozzio, post production and editing by
(19:13):
Houston Tilley, and original music written by Cheryl Stark and
produced by Adam Stark
If you want to go on a journey.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
If you're skeptical, don't worry.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
No good to preach, gonna keep it clean and talk
to me and recad where faith means files of nature
and get in touch with your creator with a bacon,
love and June. She even speaks Hebrew. What's done?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Gonza?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
What's that? Well sabomation, hil talking transformation, what's done? Donzato.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
We are back for part two of this four part
mini series here with doctor Chip Dodd.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Hello, good to see you, Yes, good to have you back.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Last week was a powerful conversation if you missed it,
we got into what is addiction really right, not just
the you know, theoretical version of it, but we talked
about it on a science level, on a logistics level,
and then of course on a cause and effect level
from where it's truly rooted, which is in the heart,
in the feelings, in the soul and the spirit.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So we are back now to talk about why.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
We numb and the real reason we avoid pain and
seek comfort. And so last week we talked a little
bit about, you know, why we turn to food and
alcohol and shopping and relationships, even busyness like hustling for
our worthiness nowadays has become a bit of an addiction.
But what we're really trying to escape or avoid? So
can we just you know, we pick up from where
(01:35):
we were last week when we're trying to escape or avoid, like,
what is that? What are we doing? And why are
we turning to those coping.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Mechanisms with you? This is going to sound strange at first,
but we actually, and this goes to probably sound very strange,
we have two enemies. We have society at large that
measures everything externally and judges accordingly right, judges like that.
And then our real primary enimy me is the brain itself.
(02:03):
Now I don't mean the whole brain, okay, but the
brain is doing exactly what it's made to do. I'm
talking about our frontal lobe logic and our executive functioning
is created to find places where there isn't pain. So
your brain as the organ, is actually a comfort seeking,
pleasure seeking instrument doing what's made to do, which means
(02:24):
pain avoidant. Okay, So your brain is doing its job
to helping you avoid honestly having to feel and having
to be indeed or having to be in situations in
which you are vulnerable, which means don't have control. Okay, Now,
so your brain is oddly pain intolerant. That's how come
your thinking can't sob can't bring you to healing because
(02:47):
your thinking is opposed to what it takes to heal.
All right, So, but your brain is intolerant for pain.
And here's the beauty. Your heart is pain tolerant. Okay,
I mean your emotional center of your being is a
pain tolerant place. You don't have to like the pain,
(03:09):
but you find that somehow or another, you're capable of
tolerating the pain. Love is painful, child bearing is painful,
Recovery is painful. And a woman named Marian Diamond, she
was the inventor of neuroplasticity, which is where we get
the idea that the brain could be changed from where
it was to a different place. This is in nineteen sixties,
(03:30):
and she was disregarded for two three decades almost And
she's the one that came up with the phrase use
it or lose it. And so she discovered there are
five ways to create what she called brain health. But
the truth was she actually had discovered, in my opinion,
she had actually discovered the five ways that the heart
(03:52):
overcomes the brain, and so that we will quote choose
health over comfort, and the five ways for us to
be maximum maximumly fulfilled. She said, she discovered nutrition, exercise, risking,
seeing new things, taking on challenges, and love. I mean,
(04:13):
these things are scientifically proven. But if you'll notice all
five of those things, eating, healthy, exercise, seeing new things,
taking on challenges, and love, all five of them require pain.
We have to delay gratification for benefits. And so if
you're not raised in a world where feelings are forms
(04:36):
of strength, see now we're being raised more than ever before.
Children are being raised with having feelings, but the feedings
in so many ways because the parents don't trust them.
The feedings become permission to not have to risk, rather
than yes, you're gonna feel it, but I'll be here
when you're done. Yes, okay, versus don't feel it, and
so many of us came from but don't feel it,
(04:58):
And now there's great permission to feel nobody could tolerate them.
So there's a but there's a tweeter world. It's called
delay gratification for benefit, and all of recovery is about
taking the risk of having feelings to delay gratification, but
it's a promise of gratification being better than satisfaction. When
I eat an apple pie muffin, I mean, just go
(05:20):
down the list. It hits the blood brain barrier in seconds.
If I eat healthy, I have to wait for the
benefit to ucome. And it all has to do with
feelings like I won't be okay your brain, and your
brain is literally saying, look, you can do this tomorrow.
Let's wait till tomorrow. I promise tomorrow will be a
great day, but tonight for right now. And then when
(05:44):
we go through the thing that that makes us comfortable,
we wind up judging ourselves for being weak, and we
weren't weak. We're not weak.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
What the brain is we're with the brains telling us
to do to avoid feeling because your brain is a
mechanism that I want to take care of you, right,
And that's why it's so important for us to learn
and take back ownership from our brain and influence it
in the direction that it needs to go rich than
having it drive us around.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Yes, so, but what is it that takes control of
the brain, And it's the one thing we run from heart,
the heart. I know it sounds so weird, But the
heart is created by God to take precedence over the brain.
In fact, the God Peace here in Proverbs four twenty
three says above all else, I mean, like above everything else.
(06:33):
It says guard your heart, And it doesn't mean lock
it in prison and be set it free and treasure
it both. It's very valuable part of you to guard
your heart above all else, because out of it flow
all the issues of life. Another translation says, because it's
the well spring of life. So if you don't know
your heart, you'll never be free. If you don't have
(06:54):
your heart, you'll never be courageous. If you don't have
your heart, you can't be really curious. Everything's about controlling
rather than experiencing.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
And so if you have ever heard yourself feeling like
or identified with this whole, you know short term gratification trap.
Not only did you just get the neuroscientific explanation from
doctor Chip DoD over here, but also you know again
you cannot solve a logical problem or emotional problem with
this logic and reason, you know, And it's it's a.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Hard In fact, all addiction is a logic problem. Yeah.
In other words, it's trusting the logic too much. If
I do this, I'll get that. If I get that,
I'll do this if I do And your logic will
always take you away from having to deal with feelings.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
They'll always win every drum.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Yeah, every one of us who goes and does something
that we know ahead of time is going to hurt us, right,
and we do it anyway. It's not because we're stupid,
it's because the logic said, go there, absolutely avoid feeling.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
And I have so many conversations with these highly intelligent
women and they're like, leanne, I'm so good everything else,
And I tell them, this is not an intelligence problem.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
This is not lack of you know it.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Is really it's so much deeper, and it's hardwired. It's
a product of cause and effective. A lot of times,
decades or a lifetime of these practices where the brain
has gotten hijacked.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Hijack or is the doing the hijacking.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
And gets hijacked, and people are very successful through their thinking.
Almost most of the people that I treated years ago
at the Center for Professional Excellence, most of those people
were highly influential, highly achieved, super people, pleasing people. I've
talked about politicians, the lawyers, the doctors and so on,
male and female. I remember I would say to them, Look,
(08:43):
you're intelligent, amazingly. I know you're smarter than I am.
I know that you have the willpower of like a rhinoceros.
You know, I mean your toughest nails. You couldn't endure
what you've endured, even residency for example, in medical school.
And you're moral. I mean you seek So that's a
form of morality if nothing else. You know how to
(09:03):
hide your secrets cause you fear being judged. But I'm saying,
you're so smart, you're so tough, and you're so strong,
but you look stupid, you look weak, and you look bad.
But we know you're not, because it's proven that you're not.
So you don't have an intelligence problem. You don't have
a willpower problem. Yeah, you don't have a moral problem.
You have a heart problem, honestly, not taking a risk
(09:23):
of trusting honestly, that limbic system, that part of your
brain that is the emotional center and the long term
memory center. Yeah you know.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, the elephant that never forgets that have boonianfas.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Yea. So let's talk about avoidance, okay, because this is
a big one no matter who's listening, I know we've
all that can be procrastination.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Avoidance, numbing. So let's talk about avoidance.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Why does that happen? And I feel like there is
not that we're making this a you know, society's bad conversation,
but there is a societal pattern of kind of teaching
us to numb instead of process avoidance and how that
just continues that disconnect ourselves.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
You know, talk about that avoidance is actually just an
impaired expression of wisdom. And what I mean by that
because see, wisdom, wisdom is because I've experienced life, I've
learned from it, and I know how to process the
feelings of it. Wisdom becomes a sense of intuitively knowing
when to do something and when not to. Avoidance is
(10:24):
a beat up form of wisdom that says, I don't
want to have to feel that, I don't want to
have to risk that, I don't want to be told
I'm wrong. So avoidance becomes like a beat up form
of wisdom and also a demand for perfectionism, like I'm
not even going to step into yeah, And so it's
part of the control addiction, and ultimately, in all addiction,
(10:50):
all impairments related to addiction, because the core addiction is
control addiction that out of which comes all the expressions
of our multi layered, multi dimensional, multi factorial expressions of
the sickness of addiction. Whether it's you know, like the
disordered eating eating disorders. It could be you know, like
(11:13):
the drug of choice in this area. It can be
believe it or not, some taking something very healthy and
taking it to extremes. It was like even spinning things
to avoid having to face things. I mean, the politicians
expertise is the addiction of spinning, and it's an addiction
to avoiding to have to avoid having to actually stand
(11:35):
up and say this is where I am, this is
what I feel, because we're trying to keep ourselves brain
safe rather than carry the integrity of their own hearts.
That makes sense, absolutely, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
No, for sure.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
And then the avoidance itself becomes its own identity of
like the well, this is just what I do, this
is who I am, and then they forget that again
it's just and then there's a numbing that comes with
the avoidance because you.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Don't even know what you're doing, like what you're hiding
from anymore.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
So a lot of times I'll ask a woman, you know,
why does she think it is that she's not able
to do?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Is there something?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Is there a story that she's telling herself, a thought
that she's thinking, a fear that she has. And the
answer often is like, I don't even know.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I've never asked myself.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
That's a great that's a great question you're asking. And
avoidance is always about not having to touch a feeling
I don't know what to do with. I mean, avoidance
is about not having to feel. I know it sounds,
you know, I sound like I'm what one trick pony,
But I'm telling you it's the most astounding thing. Every
one of our problems that isn't just truly a sort
(12:41):
of genetic neurophysiological purely, you know, like a brain's broken,
so to speak. Every one of our problems has to
do with avoiding, over extending, reacting to doing everything we
can to keep from having to do one thing. Feel
our feelings, tell the truth about them, and trust that
(13:02):
there's a process that allows us to heal from even
feelings we don't want to have. That's it. I know
it sounds, so it's well.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I think people need to hear the oversimplification, because I
think that what a lot of people are being told
is that it is a willpower problem.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
In order you need to avoid restrict control, which.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Is creating more of the problem, absolutely, versus like, well,
why don't we look at what hole am I trying to.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Fill a void of with food, social media, whatever?
Speaker 3 (13:26):
And how do I learn how to become emotionally and
spiritually available to myself in those moments rather than turning
to food.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Jesus was so clear, unless you change and become like
and he said one of these. He was literally talking
about a three year old child standing at his knee,
and he said, unless you change and become like one
of these. And I just said something that every child
can understand, and every child already knows. What are you feeling?
(13:53):
What's the truth? What happened that you feel this way? Right?
And what do you want related to it? In other words,
there's a process that will bring you back to oxytocin,
which is the chemistry of truly being connected, life giving,
which is strength for the day we're all made to
have relationship with heart to heart.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Absolutely, yeah, I talk about oxytocin as being like the
emotional safety hormone because it's like, if you don't feel
emotionally safe, you can't be or do anything.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Isn't it true too that oxytocin if everything I've read
and I understand so far, it is the only neurochemical
that you can't produce synthetically, Yes, it is.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
You can't produce it synthetically.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
And that's what all of our addiction is an attempt
to produce the relational connection chemical without having dear risk.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Social brain, not this on licking reason and where the
dopamine is coming in.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah you can so, but we're trying. We're trying to
produce it.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
We're chancing after that quick high, that quick hit, rather
than learning. And it's not even like we talked about
last week. We're not doing it on purpose. Our brain
is doing it without our consent. And that's where we
need to get in there and do some you know,
you know when.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
You said like once, we're sort of like blocked in
heart once we sort of have noun to our hearts
and we're not able to receive oxytocin. We're still in
search of it. Like this is, as example, just you
and I doing this podcast today, this episode today. When
it's finished, you and I will have had an oxytocin experience.
(15:28):
It's not just babies being born to touch with caregivers.
But I have to be willing to believe it. You
have to be willing to believe it because in the
last episode that we did after it was always like, hey,
you said that was good. I'm like, yeah, I think
that was good. But will I believe it? Because if
I can't receive it, which means trust another person, I
(15:49):
won't get the oxytocin. So I've got to be able
and we all have to be able to ask you
mean it you telling the truth. We all have to
be willing to doubt the people who are caring about
us just oh thank you or a reject see avoidance
that you brought up. Avoidance has everything to do with
not trusting. And if you can't trust, you can't receive.
(16:12):
If you can't receive, you remain isolated, and addiction is
the ultimate best next choice. Yeah, Richid whatever.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Receivership is a teachable skill, Like I don't mean to
make it sound robotic like that, but it is like
opening your heart and then the receivership of receiving that,
not just the oxytocin but feeling.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Worthy of love and belonging all of those things.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Even saying like I'm afraid to believe you is a
beginning of experiencing oxytocin that chrisk you say I'm afraid
and be received and not rejected is a trust experience,
which is a life giving experience, which is a skill
that's been gained, which is a faith that's been attained to.
Maybe I could do that again and turn out, Okay,
we're renewing ourselves, we're regrowing all that sort of thing.
(16:55):
Seeding feeding's heal. You got to feel it to heal it.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
You sure knew if you can't see it.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Yeah, And it doesn't have it doesn't always have to mean,
like you said, go into a gred yard and digging
up every tasket in there.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Absolutely it could be right now, right now, starting today,
right amen.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
I would love it. I love this conversation.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Well, we're going to be back next week where we
talk about healing from the inside out and breaking free
from the need to, not just like trying not to knowne,
but breaking free from that actual need to.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Where could you find me at chipdod dot com, c
h I P d O d D dot com also
Spotify at Amazon. The Living with Heart from Birth to
Death podcast. I really encourage people to listen to that
because there's so much in it. I get to be unbridled,
which is really good. And go beyond the Voice of
(17:46):
the Heart book. I mean, I'm getting to go way
beyond Voice of the Art book.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
So those are two ways that I would love to
hear from people, and I'd love for people to get
on the podcast amazing.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, and definitely check out The Voice of the Heart.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
You will not be sorry.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
We will be back next week for the third part
of this series, so y'll see then bye, thank you.
We'll be back with more What's God Got to Do
with It? But in the meantime, I would definitely love
to hear from you, So just tell me where you
are in your story or maybe what questions you have,
like where do you feel you need clarity or support
(18:21):
or wisdom in your own journey. I definitely want to
hear from you, So head on over to What's God
Got to Do with It dot com and scroll down
to the form to share your thoughts, your questions, your feedback,
and you can do that instantly. So, What's God Got
to Do With it dot com. You'll find all the
ways to do that, And if you like this podcast
(18:41):
and want to hear more, go ahead and follow, like,
and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts to get your
weekly dose.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Of What's God Got to Do With It?
Speaker 3 (18:50):
New episodes drop every single Tuesday, and while you're there,
be sure to rate and review to show your support.
It really means so much. What's God Got to Do
With It is an iHeartRadio podcast on the Amy Brown
Podcast Network. It's written and hosted by me Leanne Ellington,
executive produced by Elizabeth Fozzio, post production and editing by
(19:13):
Houston Tilley, and original music written by Cheryl Stark and
produced by Adam Stark
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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