November 28, 2025 • 42 mins
What do astrology and storytelling have in common?
Both have an amazing way of taking the seemingly disconnected events of our lives and giving them meaning and order.
On this week’s episode, I interview author, teacher and world-renowned astrologist Debra Silverman and dig into the power astrology offers to organize the experiences of our lives. Together we discover just how much our work has in common.
Whether you are curious about astrology, a devoted student, or an admitted skeptic, this conversation will help you make meaning of your life story.
I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.
You can buy Debra’s latest book HERE!
You can join me in her applied astrology class HERE!
Host: Ally Fallon // @allyfallon // allisonfallon.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Pick up the pieces of your life, put them back
together with the word you write, all the beauty and
peace and the magic that you'll start too fun when
you write your story.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
You got the words and said, don't you think it's
down to.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Let them out and write them down on cold It's
all about and write your story. Write you write your story.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Well, welcome to write your story podcast ever self, I mean,
we're so happy to have you.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm excited to get to talk about your books today.
And I'm also just excited to get to chat with
you about astrology. I mean partly selfishly because this is
a topic that I've been interested in for a long time.
And I also feel like your book. I was just
saying to you that your book met me in the
perfect moment because I feel like I've been on this
kind of roller coaster ride with astrology where I was
introduced to astrology a couple years ago, I was really
(00:56):
excited about it. I started learning all these things, I
started meeting with an astrologist and really feeling like everything
was just lining up and hitting perfectly and really making
sense to me. And then I went through a period
where I feel like I became somewhat of a skeptic,
where some of the things that she had said to
me that were like a little more predictive didn't turn
out the way that she said that they were going
to turn out, and so then I had like a
(01:18):
little falling it up, I think with astrology, where I
was like with the Yeah, I have been calling it
my second deconstruction because I also grew up in organized
religion and had a first deconstruction when I left that church,
and so this had been calling my second deconstruction. I
feel like your book met me, your book's held I
don't believe in astrology. First of all, this is your
most recent book, A therapists Guide to the life changing
(01:39):
Wisdom of the Stars, and a couple of things I
love about it is that one, it really approaches the
topic from this kind of skeptical point of view. It's like, Okay,
if you want to be a skeptic about this, here,
I'm going to meet you and answer all of the
questions that you have. And then the second piece that
I love about it is that it integrates that therapist perspective,
which I feel like brings the astrology stuff down to
(01:59):
earth and makes it more accessible for the average person.
Tell me where the idea for this book came from
and what made you want to write it.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
You know, if you read the last chapter, I confess
that I didn't want to write it. I was interested
in your whole podcast because writing for me is so
unnatural and I've written two books, so yeah, the process
of writing as a personality, we're both geminis. It's I'm
a great communicator. It's what I do in my sleep.
(02:28):
I'm always talking and thinking and organizing my thoughts and
writing and reading, and it's a full time job. But
the translation of sharing it with people and creating an
art forms just a communication device is radical for me.
So that's where I get self conscious, inhibited, cautious, reluctant, ambivalent,
(02:53):
all those words, which you know for a writer and
everyone on your podcast. It's the process of doing it,
and I'm the person that goes no.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
So when they called me, like probably three times, different
publishing houses called me and said we want you to
write an astrology book, and I was like, thanks for sharing.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Click.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
I just clicked, Like there's enough astrology books for twenty
five Like the rest of our lives. We could read
astrology books and then I had this really good idea
that I shared with this publisher, the agent, and he
was like, no, I writ about my idea. And I
had gathered all the work together and I compiled it.
It was a compilation of I have a writing class
(03:34):
called tell me a Story, and I've been doing it
for the last probably five six years, and I had
accumulated incredibly great writers that were not even identified as writers.
They were just telling their story and yes, so compelling.
I was like, let's write about this. And then he
was like, no, we want an astrology book.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
And I was like yeah, So.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Finally, what was the turning point? I say to people?
Human manipulated me. He made me an offer I couldn't refuse,
and so I went with and I was like, okay, life,
Obviously somebody wants the legacy of an astrologer who's been
in it for almost fifty years, I may as well,
and so I reluctantly did it. And then I had
this amazing ghost writer who made me sound better than
(04:21):
I actually sound, and we had such a rapport. She
took all my classes. She came to the school and
really stood out. She has four planets and Aquarius. She's
a genius and that was what did it. But to
be honest, and this is what I was excited about
your podcast is the transparency of a reluctant artist, which
is not the norm. I'm sure you have a lot
(04:42):
of writers on your love to write.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yeah, we do, But you know, I think writers kind
of I can kind of in my head divide them
into two categories. I've worked with a lot of authors
like you who have because you have a platform, because
you have something to say, because you've already been communicating
about your work. You have people who paying attention and
just like the story you're sharing, who are like, hey,
we want you to write a book, we want it
(05:05):
to be about X or X, y Z whatever. And
as the author, you might be like, you know, either
not that interested in writing that book, or maybe you
are interested in writing that book, but you feel like, well,
I'm not really a writer. I could never put something
like that together, And just exactly like the story that
you're describing, you're a reluctant writer for those reasons. Well,
then you have another type of writer, which I would
(05:25):
put myself in this category. I have known since I
was young, young, young, young, young, that I wanted to write.
I always wanted to be a published author. I was
always like scribbling away in notebooks and you know, writing
poetry and just writing things that nobody was ever reading.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
It was like breathing. For me.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Writing was just that easy. But then those writers become
reluctant because we see that there's a whole industry of
writing out there, and we tell ourselves, well, I don't
really have an Instagram following, I don't have a platform.
No one's really listening to me. I'm not on TV.
I don't have that much to add. I guess I'll
just you know, journal quietly by myself. And we talk
ourselves out of sharing our writing beyond just our own
(06:02):
little journal or like maybe with our family members or whatever.
And so what I say is that the universal aspect
to writing is that it is a tool that's here
for us to share our stories, our thoughts, our beliefs
with the world around us, which is like a very
human impulse. Every human being, whether they want a publish
or not, has that impulse to share themselves and share
(06:23):
their story.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
With the world.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
But some of us talk ourselves out of it because
we say, well, I'm not really a writer, and others
of us talk ourselves out of it because we say, well,
I don't have a platform, I'm not on TV, whatever
it is. So everyone has their own way of kind
of swirling out of the act of writing. And yet
for me, the reason I love this podcast and love
talking to the listeners on this podcast is because I
believe that writing, just like you're talking about with astrology,
(06:47):
writing is this amazing tool that every single one of
us have access to that we can use to bring
us back to our life and to bring us back
to the agency that we have to shape and change
our lives. And when I got the email about interviewing you,
one of the reasons I was so excited about it because,
like I mentioned, I was in this kind of like
lull where I was like, I don't even know if
I believe in astrology anymore. But one of the reasons
(07:10):
I was so excited to talk to you is I'm like,
maybe astrology is less this predictive element and more this
way to shape and understand ourselves in the world, just
like writing is. Like writing is not like your surefire
ticket to a publishing contract. For me, at least, writing
is about meeting the moment in your life and seeing
(07:30):
yourself more clearly and then sharing that self with the
people around you.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Everything you said, yes, yeah, I really agree that everything
you said that was so brilliant. It's funny because our
charts are so similar. We're both Gemini with mercury and yeah,
which is a skeptic. That's why I wrote the book. Okay,
astrology is not exclusively for predicting. There are brilliant astrologers
who predict and I'm all over supporting them, but that
(07:56):
is not my specialty, and you saw it my book.
My specialty is you have gremlins who talk shit about
you all day long in the mirror when you're lying
in bed in the middle of the night, and where
is the off button? And the gremlins are specific. You
and I both have Mercury and Taurus to our mercuries,
like where does the mind interrupt the actual truth? And
(08:16):
for you and I, it's all about logic. It's like,
can you just make this real?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Is there evidence? Can you just show me.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Something that's kind of so the thing? Didn't you told
me this was gonna happen to well forget? Yeah, well
that is not so knowing that my gremlins are based
on practicality. I had to say to them, excuse.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Me, you need to sit down now.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
I figured you out. You've been busted. Now I'm in charge.
And once I did that, my mind became an ally
when it's kind of like a wild kid who doesn't
have an off button because there's no subpsion. So astrology
at its best is a psychological I mean it's young
said it. The best psychology will be a dinosaur science
(08:56):
until it includes astrology. Like psycho logical understanding of your
operating system has a code that you can decode by
looking at the chart. And I have a school where
I start like at a third grade level. Fourth yes,
class to school, and at first you're like, you think
you're a kid in class, and it's really fun because
I make everything fun, said the Gemini. And then by
(09:18):
the time you're at the fourth class, you're like, what
just happen? Because you know why we address your shadow. Yeah,
and so I worked at psychologically. So in the book
you get a taste of it. But in the school,
it's a six week class. There's only ten people in
the room, and you get your chart comes on the
screen and there's a mentor who studied your chart and
(09:40):
you begin to the second class is exactly what we're
talking about? What mercury? What thoughts are you having that
just through astrology in the bathtub, in the garbage in
the toilet, Like what'd you do with it? So everyone,
you have to pick your medicine, and this is a
medicine that is very soothing. I would say that the
best part of astrology is the relief that occurs when
(10:05):
you realize you're not a mistake, that exactly what your
gremlins are saying is untrue.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, Which reminds me of an exercise that you in
Missing Element, which was your first book, that this is
a like such a great writing assignment, but you gave
this exercise where and I still have I literally pulled
this out for our conversation. I still have the page
where I wrote down my answers to your exercise, something
to the effect of thinking about like who you were
(10:32):
before or you had to be anybody different, and just
writing down some of those words about.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Like how you were as a child.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
So I wrote down all of these words and was
realizing that a lot of the ways that I've adjusted
myself to become more acceptable in the world is yeah,
that I've adjusted myself away from my essential nature because
I was called flighty forgetful, you know. I wrote disorganized, unreliable, idealistic,
overly spiritual. So I'm almost like a just did myself
(11:01):
in my life to be more like intellectual. I wrote
down on this list that she's writing poems when she
should be studying.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Calculus, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
So it's like then I'm realizing, like as an adult,
that I've formulated this whole personality around someone who is
like more studious, more serious, more and there is a
part of me that's that. But as I looked at
this list, I was like, oh, that's the missing element.
That's the part of me that I need to reclaim
in order to be my whole self. And it was
(11:31):
just such an insightful exercise that you offered. I think
everybody should should do that.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
It's so powerful, the missing element. The first book I wrote,
there's no astrology in it. I did that on purpose
so that no one that didn't believe in astrology wouldn't
read the book. And it's simply a description of the
four personality types that are based on every single system,
from the Enneagram to the human design to the gene keys.
Every single thing is based on astrology, so I use
(11:57):
the four elements. And then the second book was a
deeper dive into astrology, and it was all about astrology,
so I did kind of It's so Gemini, I did
do book. There's no astrology ont atrology. Go ahead and
take your FIP and the first if you buy the
first book from my website, I will stick your chart
in it. So I will actually calculate your chart and
put it in and you can and I'll mail it
(12:18):
to So the second book you have to go to Amazon.
You don't need to go to my website. But I
did do astrology secretly inside the book by sending everyone
their chart.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, both books were great, And actually you just brought
up a question that I've had since reading your book,
because I definitely was into the aenneagram for a long
period of time. To you, and I think some of
my listeners have been into the anagram, and I wonder
what the connection was. I mean, there feels like an
obvious connection between aneagram, numerology, astrology, but can you explain
in any more detail what that connection is?
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Which I love the anagram? What are you in the anagram?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
A four with a three wing. Huh. That makes sense.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
So in astrology it's so detailed in the aneagram, it's
the Christian mystics that wrote it. It's based on the
same system, which is understanding your soul's impulse and giving
you a permission slip. That's essentially what astrology is. It's
like when you were a kid and you'd go to
the teacher and say, can I go to the bathroom
and she'd give you a hall pass and I'd love
(13:14):
memory is so fun, and then you go outside Without astrology.
The enneagram or the gene kis certainly and the humans.
All of the systems are based underneath on the elemental description.
So the enneagram is really steeped in that most people
don't know how to marry the two because they're so separated.
And people don't want to learn astrology because it seems
(13:36):
so complicated. Where the edim my numbers and you study
the nine numbers and you go into depth. But it's
not so complicated. The way I teach it, I teach
it in a childlike way.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
I think that's what I was saying at the beginning
of our conversation. Even though astrology is it is complicated.
You know, I can see how that would be an
obstacle for people, But the way that you teach it
really brings it down to earth and helps it helps
me feel like I could engage with this and kind
of in some ways figure out my own chart. I mean, obviously,
like I'm so new at this, You're gonna be able
to see things in my chart that I'm not going
(14:17):
to be able to see. But I started doing this
to my husband too, who is like maybe even more
of a skeptic than I am. And I'll be like, oh,
that's because you know that's the Taurus and you or
that's your exactly your Satittarius rising or whatever.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
And it's the difference.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Between calculus and math. So astralle the higher level is calculus.
It's so abstract and it's so mathematic, and the simple
version that I teach is like one plus one equals too.
Like you you have fire, You personally have fire and air.
So if you have fire and air and that's a
combustive you you add air in the fireplace to the
(14:50):
fire and the fire gets bigger. Well, you add air
everywhere you go. You're like, let me ask you a question.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
I just was.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
I just underline that, well, hold on a thing, let
me just do this up. Your fire is your primary element,
and that's English. That's simple. I make astrology simple, and
I'm unfortunately astrology is bad pr Like people talk about
it like it's some kind of parlor trick. That's one
and then two. It seems complicated. It's not. But it
(15:19):
took me a long time. I mean, this has been
my life's work. And I'm almost seventy, so it took
me fifty years of doing this over. I mean, it's
really funny to think about when I started and I
was in high school. I just had my fiftieth high
school reunion and I saw all the kids and I
knew what their moons were because when I was in
high school, I was obsessed. So yeah, this life, I
(15:42):
had a mission.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Yeah, this has been calling to you and inviting youth, and.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I in love with it.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
It doesn't ever ever, Like skeptics are my favorite people
because I one reading for them and by the way,
I don't do reading, so don't ask me. But I
have trained. There's twenty four people that are certified by
me that have gone through a rigorous training, and I
do this thing called matchmaking, where they write in they
don't want to take the class. I wish that everyone
in the world would study, but they want a proper
(16:10):
reading with someone they can trust. So I do their
chart and then I look at the charts of all
my certified astrologias and I matchmake. It's like one of
my favorite things to do because I want people to
see the practical value. Yes, okay, so to your point,
it's not always predictive. It is assessing your personality.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
So I don't know how much of my personal experience
to share, but that was one of the things that
happened to me that really as an astrologer.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I loved her.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
She actually taught me so much and helped me to
find my way in astrology. And there were so many
things she said that that held true. But I think
because I was on this quest to build something, to
make something happen, and she kept saying, like, yes, all
the stars that are aligning for this, like everything's this
is the perfect moment for this to be happening, and
this to be happening. And she was telling me, you know,
(16:56):
not like exactly, this is what's going to happen next,
and this is the data's to happen, but kind of
like that's how I took it.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
And so then.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
When that endeavor fell apart and I suffered quite a
bit from the fall apart, I've had a hard time
making sense of that story in retrospect. And I wonder if, actually,
now that I say that, I wonder if astrology could
help me read writing helps you make sense of it.
So could astrology help me reframe what I experienced?
Speaker 4 (17:23):
This is the distinction between a good astrologer and a
less trained astrologer. Predictive qualities are absolutely dangerous because there
is the free will button, there is the unknown, there
is the lessons that are hidden behind the door that
you had to learn. Because one of your life lessons
clearly is partnering with people in understanding relationships. That's one
(17:46):
of your hardest things. So if part of your lesson
was to be disappointed, and that's in part, then why
didn't she say that?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Not that you yeah going to work?
Speaker 4 (17:56):
But I just aim at the lesson, I don't aim
at the practical concrete. There are certainly obvious times. I'm
thinking of a woman who is now I think she's
twenty nine, but I met her when she was like
fifteen young girl. Her mother came for a reading and
I looked at her chart and I was like, oh, oh,
this chart. She's going to be famous, this girl definitely,
(18:16):
And she ended up becoming the number one serf girl
in all of Hawaii.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
And her mom never stopped saying, never saw this when
you were a teenager. So there's an obvious loud messenger
when the sun is on the mid heaven, there's a
clue about fame. On the other hand, to your point
to say to someone your business is going to be
successful or you're especially when you're collaborating, because that's your
big issue this life. When you're working with people, they
(18:40):
will disappoint you. So that's a psychological truth about human nature,
but it's specifically true to your life. Lesson is how
do you partner without having expectations? Now that's not an
easy quest. And I simply in my astrology in our school,
we're looking at your purpose. You're like lessons your challenges.
(19:02):
We're not just looking at timing. Although that is a
big part of astrology, it's not my focus.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Okay, So I want to dive a little deeper into
that because if someone's wanting to take a look at
their chart. I mean, I feel like probably most of
my listeners, maybe not every single one, but most of them.
And I know I am in this place where I
know like the basic sun moon rising, but beyond that,
you know, everything that I'm learning in your book is
learning where my mercury is placed, and all of that
stuff is new. So if you were talking to someone
(19:29):
who you know had my preschool understanding astrology, where would
you have me start as far as understanding like my
what you just talked about, like life lessons, my life purpose.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
The first thing I would look at is your missing
element from the first book, and so you don't have
any water in your chart. So your life lesson is
your emotional body. And when you get caught either in
sadness or disappointment or being able to deal with your
inner world and wanting to not share it because you're secretive,
you're like, h, we have to go there. Your reluctance
(20:02):
or your ambivalence about the emotional content of being human
is your one of your big issues. So either you
cry easily or you don't cry at all, Which is it?
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Well, I cry easily, but I present as very put together,
cool headed, and when really in real life, I'm like
extremely emotional and yeah, and what I'll do is like
if I'm having a day where I'm just feeling like
really down or really I just shut the world out,
you know, and then when I feel better, then I
re engage.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
Yeah. So this is a classical story of water. When
it's not well developed, it becomes a secret, it stays internal.
This is my first book. The missing element for you
is water, so that you internalize and you secret, you
go off by yourself and you process with a stretch
would be for you to start letting the emotion's surface,
share them and tag them, accept them, rather than stuffing
(20:53):
them because it just creates symptoms, any pal symptom in
the body. I hate to say this, it's so dangerous,
is unprocessed emotions. And it's not necessarily like you stubbed
your toe and oh, it's not like when there's a
big symptom that it follows you around in your body
or it's been a hereditary issue. There's some unfinished processing.
(21:15):
Now can you process and make it go away? Not necessarily.
What you can do if you're missing water is put
your hands on your heart. Put your hand on your
tummy and go what am I feeling all day long?
And then you manage it lifetime What am I feeling
right now? And it takes a real effort for a
Jebedi to have her attention on her body rather than
(21:36):
going off by yourself and turning everybody away yes and
going yeah, but if you don't share, so your issue is.
And there are other people that have water as their
issue and they cry all the time and tell everything
and they overshare.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
They can't turn.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
Button, so the water is just swamping them and they're
moody and they're addicted because they're feeling overwhelmed and assaulted
by the human experience. So the missing element we're talking about,
and that would be the first thing in the very
first class they would say to you. So your job
would be during the day as a practice, what am
I feeling? And once that becomes a familiar land, this
(22:14):
is and we're going to go through all four of
them in the name of water. You'll notice that your
intuition increases. You pay attention to being disappointed before it
hits the point where there's Niagara falls wow, yeah, and
you see attentive in the moment and you become an
expert at tracking your own emotional body, and therefore the
(22:34):
symptoms don't required. The reclusion isn't necessary.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
The ability, yes, there's a.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
Big one for you to ask for what you want
forget about it right now.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
That gets so.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
There's the first thing you would learn in our school
is so, now let's say you're missing air. Let's just
use it for the audience. And how would you know that?
You'd have to go get your chart done. But you
can find out if you can't communicate. You don't use
the phone, you never answer your text, you don't on
a date. You have only a very few people around,
and you think that people aren't interesting, so you don't listen.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
That's no error.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
That's the opposite of me and you and they aren't
listening to this podcast about writing. Anyone that doesn't have air,
doesn't like to write, doesn't like to read. They find
themselves spaced out a lot. They forget things. And the
road of error is they take all these classes, all
these writing classes, but they never publish because they don't
get things done. Now that's the road of an excessive
(23:27):
amount of air. The high road is, oh, I figured
it out, Like you put your hands on your heart
and your tummy for the water. The air person makes
a list and goes, I have a deadline and I
can't let myself off the hook. And I took the
class and I wrote the notes down and then I
practiced it, and I went and took my reiki and
did it on someone rather than just taking the yoga
class or not. Because what air people do is they
(23:48):
study all the time, and they're all listening to your
show and they don't follow. Yeah, so they would learn
some skills based on our school of what you're going
to do to insert the medicine. If it's Earth and
you're really caught by numbers and money and you're organizing
and you're not good enough and you have this in
your chart, you're not producing enough, you're not making enough
(24:10):
what you're doing, you should be. You should is the
operative word. Then there's medicine for that.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Oh. The maunter is I.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
Always get things done, yeah, and I trust myself. Now
that's not true for most Earth people. They don't think
they're getting everything done and they don't trust themselves. So
I absert medicine and Earth people are bound by shulds
productivity and not making enough money They're big thing is
they should be making money. You have this one in space.
And then the third last category is fire. And if
(24:39):
you're missing fire, you've stopped having fun, you stopped having orgasms,
you stopped working out, you stopped going to the gym.
And you think you want to because when you were young,
you were so athletic, but now you've thrown that all
to the wind and you're not doing any physical activity.
And therefore one of the side effects of not having fire,
which you have quite a bit, is they get really
disappointed in life and grum so that the people that
(25:01):
go everybody's so miserable.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
I hate they.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Say all these miserable things, and they say him loud,
and they tell every politics and their point of view,
and how stupid the other party is, like would you stop?
And the medicine for fire is there is an off button,
and it's called knowing when to stop. Now a fire
person who's just like ready to get pissed off or
or so shut down, they lost their fire and they're miserable.
(25:26):
There's this button called stop and recalibrate. I call it
the observer. But when you're missing an element, it's the
most unnatural thing in the world. If I said to
you you have to cry in front of people, You're
like no, like that, it's not yes, But you have
to learn and this is called evaline and growing and
(25:46):
why we go to therapy.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
And yeah, I mean you put the nail right on
the head. And it also it actually answers my question
about how do I recontextualize and reframe the experience that
I had with that astrology, because I think a lot
of what's unfolded in the last fighters of my life
has been about overwhelming me with such sadness and loss
that I can't anymore, like in order to hide it,
(26:10):
I realized in the last couple of years, I would
have to completely remove myself from the world. There's just
been so much loss. So it's like I have to work,
I have to keep showing up, I have to get
on Instagram, I have to do the podcast. And I
can't just fake it, fake it, fake it, fake it,
fake it forever. And so it's like I'm it's almost
like the overwhelm was on purpose so that I could
(26:30):
no longer ignore exactly.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Got you nailed it? And when loss, when water is
the topic, the vulnerability, which is what water is because
it's tears. The vulnerability of water is disclosing. I'm scared.
I'm so sad, I'm lonely. I understand why I got
left out. I don't know why that death happened. I
(26:54):
never got over it. It's it's the permission. And I
as a therapist, you know, I sell rate. It's so
bad that I celebrate people's pain.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
It's terrible to say.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
I mean, as soon as someone comes in as a
client who's really in a deep state of leftovers, I
call it like the ghosts that never went away. Okay,
now I have a because I can really help you. Yes,
And that's what a good astrology session does. It's not
just talking. It's activating the emotions, questioning people's thoughts. It's
(27:28):
giving them permission to see how accomplished they are by
looking at the track I can see in your chart,
like your writing is compulsive, and that makes me excellent
at it because it's coming out of your heart. But
you don't see you know people that are listening you,
all you writers out there who love it. You can't
measure your success by being published. Yeah that's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Yeah, or you can, but you it will break your
heart because and I think that's some of what's happened
in my career. Some people would look at my career
and be like, she's been so successful. I've really written,
you know, I've written four of my own books. I've
gost written ten for other people. And I mean I've
done my books have done well in the marketplace in
compare like in the spectrum. But and you were mentioning
this about my chart too, like whatever I do, it's
(28:11):
never good enough for me.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
So in my head, I'm like, I've put all.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
This effort in, I've put all this work in, and
I've never been on the New York Times list. I've
never you know, hit the Wall Street Journalist.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
It's called moon and Capricorn. That's the way your emotional
bodies earth. And you're measuring your emotional success by results.
And that's not accurate. It's not the right answer. It
doesn't serve you. And until you rewrite the narrative that
you're you're hard drive is operating with the narrative that
says practicality describes success.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Yeah, it's like you were saying at the beginning of
the call, it's like if I can't point to it,
it doesn't feel real to me. And so it's like,
you know, I can get messages all day long from
people who say your words change my life, Thank you
so much. You've had such an impact on me. But
it's like, but I'm not on the New York Times
list yet. And it's funny because like so much of
my teaching to people is about out like, don't worry
about the numbers, don't worry about who's reading. Just write
(29:04):
with passion, right from your heart. And I believe that.
But then there's this other part of me that says, like, no, no,
your mercury is in Earth.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
And Taurus, your emotional bodies in Capricorn and Earth and Earth.
People need results. Until it's what I said earlier about Earth,
until you start repeating over and over again, I always
get things done. And there's another mantra for Earth, and
I'm much I'm doing much better than I think. Yeah,
but you know, it's it's a real the medicine. That's
(29:41):
why I think of the book. I don't believe in
astrology as medicine is this human psyche is built to
be mean to itself, don't.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yeah, it's such.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
A bad design.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
It's so true. Yeah, it's there's so many different ways
that we do that to ourselves. And yeah, I was
just thinking too about how you wrote about a moon
in Capricorn. That Capricorn is a tricky placement for moon,
I think you said because Capricorn is so I can't
mber how you said it, but it's so earth centered
and yet illnatant. The moon is meant to be your
emotional body. So it's like if you have their like
(30:15):
a contradiction to one another.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
And so and so you guys, everyone listening. Your chart
tells me what you came to learn. Now, the question
is are you learning it? I mean, that's a different conversation,
but I'm telling you now and taking level one, and
all you got to do is just take level one.
And our school opens in September, and jail only twice
a year, September and January, so there's one coming up
in January. It's just such a permission slip. It's it's
(30:41):
like the I get to watch, particularly women because our
school is almost ninety eight and my company, the women
that teach are all women. There's such a comfort for
me as a business owner because I too missed the
New York Times and I too, like, so what but
I have mercury to just like you. So I have
(31:02):
goals that are concrete, and I have written, and I'm
like you. I've written and written and written, and I
keep it at a drawer most of the time. Yeah,
I had a horrible You're gonna this is an unbelievable story. So,
like you, I've been writing since I was a kid.
I kept it in a draw never shared. It was
always a secret for me. I kept it in my
computer for hundreds of years. And then about two years ago,
(31:25):
I had a computer that I was giving away to
a friend because she needed one and I was getting
a new one. And I didn't know that on the
iCloud there's one button a warning that if someone unplugs
that button, every single thing in your cloud is gone.
And she did it, but she didn't go and I
didn't know. And then when I went to come back
(31:46):
to my computer and it was every single thing I
wrote was gone. And I literally cried like a like
someone had died. And my kids were one of my kids,
and he was like and I'm a grown up and
he's a grown up and he was like, mom it together.
I was like no, And after happened, which took a
long time to get over. I realized it was a
(32:06):
gift in disguise, ego to reduce the memory of being
someone special at the writing secret world and start putting
it out when I had it, And so I've changed.
But that was I hardly ever tell that story because
it's so to us, geminis what a tragedy.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Tragedy it is. I feel that in my bones. I
think I would sob for days of something.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
I was absolutely I know it was such a funny
thing because I was literally and I'm sorry that they
had to hear it. I was literally wailing. Yeah, And
then you know, it's so interesting, Like here's one of them.
I had written poems when I was a kid that
I had memorized. One of them was this one Once
upon a time when time was out of the question.
(32:50):
Once was all it took to learn a lesson, just once.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
That's gorgeous.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
I was a little person and it came.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
I mean, it's mind blowing to me. And I have kids.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
I have an almost four year old in the five
year old, and like the way that they're connected to
the truth of themselves and also to the truth of
the universe and the stuff that comes through their mouths,
and then hearing that you wrote that when you were
tiny and the same same type of thing. I mean,
I started writing when I was very young, and I
think back now to the things that I wrote back then,
and sometimes, you know, life is so.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Hard on us.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
I don't know if that's the right way to say it,
but I just feel like the loss, the heartbreak, the challenges,
the whatever, you know, you lose track of that part
of you that's five still that like trusts so deeply
trust that everything's going to be fine, and so I
don't know, hearing you recite that poem just as like
a way of connecting back to that version of ourselves.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
And I remembered I have like five of those in
my head that never went away, that were from when
I was Yeah, that was a good news.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
That you know, it speaks to to also the loss,
the deep loss of losing all of those writings. That's
part of the grief, I think is it's like the
connection to that part of ourselves that was so connected
to the universe.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
I'm I would say, I'm still connected. I have childlikeness
in a big way. Nobody believes I'm going to seventy
and you know, I'm a year and a half away.
And I think part of the gift of being a
Gemini I don't have Capricorn is that I have never lost.
I mean it's almost silly. I wake up every day
(34:27):
with like, like the colors, I'm looking at the colors
in my room, look at the art like I am.
I am in rapture. But that is my kid. Yeah,
I don't know what happened to me. I think I
ate the wrong thing or somehow, or I got the
wrong chart or something's wrong because I did not I
did not demonstrate the release of the innocence of seeing
(34:50):
every day brand new. I'm you know, in the Touro deck.
I'm teaching the Tureau right now on.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah, I noticed that on your on your email list.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
So yeah, And the first card of the Tuau deck,
the very first card is the Fool, and the fool
is the kid that jumps off a cliff. That to
your point, that just like so innocent, and that is
how I start the deck is you were an idiot
to sign up to come here because you didn't get
any instructions. They gave us nothing. And there's a fool
(35:19):
of innocence that can say willingly, I'm so confused and
this is so silly, and I don't really understand all
those lines. I don't understand that I need help, which
is one of your big lessons, the little fool going
uh oh, I jump and I forgot to bring my juice?
Can someone? Can you help me? And that innocence of
(35:41):
the fool. It's the same thing with writing.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
It took me.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
I know this is probably true for you. I took
so many of those writing classes where you write and
then you read, like before I ever wrote the first book,
and it helped me so much. Be the fool to
say I don't know.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Yeah, I mean writing even if you're if you're tactically
trained as a writer, even still writing and publishing, your
work has to have some of that energy to it.
You have to have almost like a naivete that I'm
going to just throw this out in the world and
people are gonna connect or respond or whatever. I love
that childlikeness about you. I think it's one of the
things that has drawn me to you, into your work,
and I wish I had more of that in my
(36:20):
life because.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
Your moones in Campricorn you're an old who's very practical
and grounded. I can't say the same. I mean I might,
but I had to learn. See that's the missing element.
I had to You came with Earth, and that's that's
a burden because you feel uber responsible and you're never
good enough. I didn't come with it. I had to
go look that, and that's what the Missing book, the
Missing Element really helped me when I figured out my
(36:43):
missing element and then which was Earth, and then cultivated
it and went, oh, and you're right, it's burdensome. I
see the veil, the downside of Earth. I can see. Yeah,
you're like, why is always not good enough?
Speaker 3 (36:56):
And just I take everything so seriously, you know, like
I wish I could just be like not be sin
serious about.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
It, like the fool.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah, a little bit of that would be would be nice.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
You can cook bait it. That's why my school's here
and how you're welcome to come allie.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
I'm gonna I'm gonna join in fact, and if you
can send me a link or have your team send
me a link, I'll include it in the show notes.
And you know, we'll specifically invite students to join us too,
because when I heard you talking about it. I was like,
this is a no.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Brainer for me. I've been wanting to learn. I've been learning,
and you.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
All learn it. You're gonna be so surprised because of
your we you and I both have tours. The simplicity
of it is what's going to feed you? And then
the complication of understanding your kids. Yeah, that's where the
tires hit the ground. We understand our children's charts. It's
a life changer.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Oh, I'm so excited for that. I'm because yeah, I mean,
understanding them is so essential to being the container in
which they grow up in a ball.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
When my son, here's my best story. When my son
came home. He was in like seventh grade, and he
came home and he looked ter. I was like, what
happened to you? And he was like all the teachers
put me in a circle and they got really mad
at me. And I said, what did you do? And
he said, well, I hit the bully today. I was like,
you are a double Eries.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
You didn't hit the bully.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
Who was going to hit the bully if not a
double Eries?
Speaker 2 (38:15):
If not you?
Speaker 4 (38:16):
Yeah, And then he's like, wait, you're not mad. I
was like, no, somebody had to hit the bully.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
I think you did. You tell that story in The
Missing Element.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
I feel like I recognize that story, but it's Yeah,
just the reason I love the story and love what
you're saying is it's the feeling of giving yourself permission
to be who you are and to not always have
to morph and change to be more acceptable and pleasing
to those around you, which I feel like I do
have done a fair bit of in my life. But yeah,
like making that list that I made as I was
(38:44):
reading The Missing Element, I was like, some of you know,
I could stand to bring back some of that, like
flighty forgetful writing poetry version of myself.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
Here, let me tell you the good news before we
finish here, because we're about done. Moon and Capricorn gets
better as they get older, and because they get fed
up with the disappointment, and because they get fed up
with not being good enough, they suddenly go throw their
hands in their ear and go, look that's what happens
age Really well, that fits.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
I feel like I'm getting there.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
It's like it's too tiring to you know, to live
that way anymore, so we'll move on to the night.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
I agree completely it's too tiring. For God's sake.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
Why do we have to be that person that's, oh no,
mad at themselves for doing everything right? It doesn't now
And I really want to just echo when my book
came out, and there's going to be a soft cover
coming out next year, which I'm going to do another
book launch, and they and I swear to you, I
spent too much money aiming because my Mercury's and tourist
(39:47):
for the New York Times, which of course, and I
really had to meet something in myself to your point
where I said to myself, Deborah, you wrote this book.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
With everything I had.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
I mean, I gave it everything I am.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
Yeah, And writing a book is like having a baby
times ten had a baby is nothing compared to writing
a book. And so I had to really catch myself
right after I spent all that money and call myself up,
which I was on the way in. I kept saying,
is this my ego? And the answer was.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yes, Yeah, I'm just right there with you.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
I know that feeling so well of putting you not
only emotionally put everything on the table, but then financially
put everything on the table, and to have it not
pan out is always disappointing.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
Now I want to read your books. I'm going to
find your books.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Well, I'll send you copies, give me, send me your
or have.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Your teams send good putting it.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Yeah, send me.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Your mailing address and I'll send you all my books.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
Oh, I'm so excited.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
I'm happy to get to share them with you. And
and I just I love your work so much and
I'm just so inspired by you. And I am going
to be joining your program in January because it's been
something It's just a no brainer for me. It's in
something that I've been wanting to learn more about.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Anyway.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
I've seen you launch it before. I've thought about joining before,
and for whatever reason, I haven't done it. So that's
the time, and we'll put I'll put links in the
show notes for listeners to join that and for both
of your books. Is there anything else that you want
me to link to or talk about?
Speaker 4 (41:14):
You know, I think the biggest is the school is
where the power is. It's only six weeks and it's
only like a two hour You're on zoom with only
ten people, so it's super intimate, and that is my
I love getting the gifts. It's funny, and the emails
after and the mail people mail me things. Yes, it's
like people's husbands write me back and say, she's so
(41:37):
much happier. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
That's so amazing. I love that. Oh cool.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Well, thank you so much for chatting with us and
sharing your wisdom. And I'm looking forward to learning more
from you and I will definitely send some of my
books your way. And I'm just so grateful to be
able to introduce you to our listeners. I know they're
going to learn so much from you too, So thanks
for your time.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Here's a secret.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
You'll be the first time telling this too. We haven't
told anyone this yet. In twenty twenty six, I am
picking twenty two women that I am going to personally
train because I stopped teaching ten years ago, and they'll
be going through a rigorous program to become an astrologer.
So if anyone's yeah, all you have to do is
write to info at Deborah Silverman Astrology and say I
(42:18):
want to be one of those. We're gonna vet them.
We're gonna look at their charts and we're gonna see,
like who has moon and camprigor.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Here's the upside chart.
Speaker 4 (42:24):
Who will seriously do the over and you would get
all a's.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
Yes, yeah, you know for sure, for sure that if
I tell you I'm going to be somewhere, I am
one hundred percent going to be there exactly.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Thank so, I will see you in January.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
Yeah, okay, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
I'd love it. I'm person. Thank you, oh, thank you
for everything. Appreciate you
Pick up the pieces of your life, put them back
together with the word you write, all the beauty and
peace and the magic that you'll start too fun when
you write your story.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
You got the words and said, don't you think it's
down to.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Let them out and write them down on cold It's
all about and write your story. Write you write your story.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Well, welcome to write your story podcast ever self, I mean,
we're so happy to have you.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm excited to get to talk about your books today.
And I'm also just excited to get to chat with
you about astrology. I mean partly selfishly because this is
a topic that I've been interested in for a long time.
And I also feel like your book. I was just
saying to you that your book met me in the
perfect moment because I feel like I've been on this
kind of roller coaster ride with astrology where I was
introduced to astrology a couple years ago, I was really
(00:56):
excited about it. I started learning all these things, I
started meeting with an astrologist and really feeling like everything
was just lining up and hitting perfectly and really making
sense to me. And then I went through a period
where I feel like I became somewhat of a skeptic,
where some of the things that she had said to
me that were like a little more predictive didn't turn
out the way that she said that they were going
to turn out, and so then I had like a
(01:18):
little falling it up, I think with astrology, where I
was like with the Yeah, I have been calling it
my second deconstruction because I also grew up in organized
religion and had a first deconstruction when I left that church,
and so this had been calling my second deconstruction. I
feel like your book met me, your book's held I
don't believe in astrology. First of all, this is your
most recent book, A therapists Guide to the life changing
(01:39):
Wisdom of the Stars, and a couple of things I
love about it is that one, it really approaches the
topic from this kind of skeptical point of view. It's like, Okay,
if you want to be a skeptic about this, here,
I'm going to meet you and answer all of the
questions that you have. And then the second piece that
I love about it is that it integrates that therapist perspective,
which I feel like brings the astrology stuff down to
(01:59):
earth and makes it more accessible for the average person.
Tell me where the idea for this book came from
and what made you want to write it.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
You know, if you read the last chapter, I confess
that I didn't want to write it. I was interested
in your whole podcast because writing for me is so
unnatural and I've written two books, so yeah, the process
of writing as a personality, we're both geminis. It's I'm
a great communicator. It's what I do in my sleep.
(02:28):
I'm always talking and thinking and organizing my thoughts and
writing and reading, and it's a full time job. But
the translation of sharing it with people and creating an
art forms just a communication device is radical for me.
So that's where I get self conscious, inhibited, cautious, reluctant, ambivalent,
(02:53):
all those words, which you know for a writer and
everyone on your podcast. It's the process of doing it,
and I'm the person that goes no.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
So when they called me, like probably three times, different
publishing houses called me and said we want you to
write an astrology book, and I was like, thanks for sharing.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Click.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
I just clicked, Like there's enough astrology books for twenty
five Like the rest of our lives. We could read
astrology books and then I had this really good idea
that I shared with this publisher, the agent, and he
was like, no, I writ about my idea. And I
had gathered all the work together and I compiled it.
It was a compilation of I have a writing class
(03:34):
called tell me a Story, and I've been doing it
for the last probably five six years, and I had
accumulated incredibly great writers that were not even identified as writers.
They were just telling their story and yes, so compelling.
I was like, let's write about this. And then he
was like, no, we want an astrology book.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
And I was like yeah, So.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Finally, what was the turning point? I say to people?
Human manipulated me. He made me an offer I couldn't refuse,
and so I went with and I was like, okay, life,
Obviously somebody wants the legacy of an astrologer who's been
in it for almost fifty years, I may as well,
and so I reluctantly did it. And then I had
this amazing ghost writer who made me sound better than
(04:21):
I actually sound, and we had such a rapport. She
took all my classes. She came to the school and
really stood out. She has four planets and Aquarius. She's
a genius and that was what did it. But to
be honest, and this is what I was excited about
your podcast is the transparency of a reluctant artist, which
is not the norm. I'm sure you have a lot
(04:42):
of writers on your love to write.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yeah, we do, But you know, I think writers kind
of I can kind of in my head divide them
into two categories. I've worked with a lot of authors
like you who have because you have a platform, because
you have something to say, because you've already been communicating
about your work. You have people who paying attention and
just like the story you're sharing, who are like, hey,
we want you to write a book, we want it
(05:05):
to be about X or X, y Z whatever. And
as the author, you might be like, you know, either
not that interested in writing that book, or maybe you
are interested in writing that book, but you feel like, well,
I'm not really a writer. I could never put something
like that together, And just exactly like the story that
you're describing, you're a reluctant writer for those reasons. Well,
then you have another type of writer, which I would
(05:25):
put myself in this category. I have known since I
was young, young, young, young, young, that I wanted to write.
I always wanted to be a published author. I was
always like scribbling away in notebooks and you know, writing
poetry and just writing things that nobody was ever reading.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
It was like breathing. For me.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Writing was just that easy. But then those writers become
reluctant because we see that there's a whole industry of
writing out there, and we tell ourselves, well, I don't
really have an Instagram following, I don't have a platform.
No one's really listening to me. I'm not on TV.
I don't have that much to add. I guess I'll
just you know, journal quietly by myself. And we talk
ourselves out of sharing our writing beyond just our own
(06:02):
little journal or like maybe with our family members or whatever.
And so what I say is that the universal aspect
to writing is that it is a tool that's here
for us to share our stories, our thoughts, our beliefs
with the world around us, which is like a very
human impulse. Every human being, whether they want a publish
or not, has that impulse to share themselves and share
(06:23):
their story.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
With the world.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
But some of us talk ourselves out of it because
we say, well, I'm not really a writer, and others
of us talk ourselves out of it because we say, well,
I don't have a platform, I'm not on TV, whatever
it is. So everyone has their own way of kind
of swirling out of the act of writing. And yet
for me, the reason I love this podcast and love
talking to the listeners on this podcast is because I
believe that writing, just like you're talking about with astrology,
(06:47):
writing is this amazing tool that every single one of
us have access to that we can use to bring
us back to our life and to bring us back
to the agency that we have to shape and change
our lives. And when I got the email about interviewing you,
one of the reasons I was so excited about it because,
like I mentioned, I was in this kind of like
lull where I was like, I don't even know if
I believe in astrology anymore. But one of the reasons
(07:10):
I was so excited to talk to you is I'm like,
maybe astrology is less this predictive element and more this
way to shape and understand ourselves in the world, just
like writing is. Like writing is not like your surefire
ticket to a publishing contract. For me, at least, writing
is about meeting the moment in your life and seeing
(07:30):
yourself more clearly and then sharing that self with the
people around you.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Everything you said, yes, yeah, I really agree that everything
you said that was so brilliant. It's funny because our
charts are so similar. We're both Gemini with mercury and yeah,
which is a skeptic. That's why I wrote the book. Okay,
astrology is not exclusively for predicting. There are brilliant astrologers
who predict and I'm all over supporting them, but that
(07:56):
is not my specialty, and you saw it my book.
My specialty is you have gremlins who talk shit about
you all day long in the mirror when you're lying
in bed in the middle of the night, and where
is the off button? And the gremlins are specific. You
and I both have Mercury and Taurus to our mercuries,
like where does the mind interrupt the actual truth? And
(08:16):
for you and I, it's all about logic. It's like,
can you just make this real?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Is there evidence? Can you just show me.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Something that's kind of so the thing? Didn't you told
me this was gonna happen to well forget? Yeah, well
that is not so knowing that my gremlins are based
on practicality. I had to say to them, excuse.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Me, you need to sit down now.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
I figured you out. You've been busted. Now I'm in charge.
And once I did that, my mind became an ally
when it's kind of like a wild kid who doesn't
have an off button because there's no subpsion. So astrology
at its best is a psychological I mean it's young
said it. The best psychology will be a dinosaur science
(08:56):
until it includes astrology. Like psycho logical understanding of your
operating system has a code that you can decode by
looking at the chart. And I have a school where
I start like at a third grade level. Fourth yes,
class to school, and at first you're like, you think
you're a kid in class, and it's really fun because
I make everything fun, said the Gemini. And then by
(09:18):
the time you're at the fourth class, you're like, what
just happen? Because you know why we address your shadow. Yeah,
and so I worked at psychologically. So in the book
you get a taste of it. But in the school,
it's a six week class. There's only ten people in
the room, and you get your chart comes on the
screen and there's a mentor who studied your chart and
(09:40):
you begin to the second class is exactly what we're
talking about? What mercury? What thoughts are you having that
just through astrology in the bathtub, in the garbage in
the toilet, Like what'd you do with it? So everyone,
you have to pick your medicine, and this is a
medicine that is very soothing. I would say that the
best part of astrology is the relief that occurs when
(10:05):
you realize you're not a mistake, that exactly what your
gremlins are saying is untrue.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, Which reminds me of an exercise that you in
Missing Element, which was your first book, that this is
a like such a great writing assignment, but you gave
this exercise where and I still have I literally pulled
this out for our conversation. I still have the page
where I wrote down my answers to your exercise, something
to the effect of thinking about like who you were
(10:32):
before or you had to be anybody different, and just
writing down some of those words about.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Like how you were as a child.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
So I wrote down all of these words and was
realizing that a lot of the ways that I've adjusted
myself to become more acceptable in the world is yeah,
that I've adjusted myself away from my essential nature because
I was called flighty forgetful, you know. I wrote disorganized, unreliable, idealistic,
overly spiritual. So I'm almost like a just did myself
(11:01):
in my life to be more like intellectual. I wrote
down on this list that she's writing poems when she
should be studying.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Calculus, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
So it's like then I'm realizing, like as an adult,
that I've formulated this whole personality around someone who is
like more studious, more serious, more and there is a
part of me that's that. But as I looked at
this list, I was like, oh, that's the missing element.
That's the part of me that I need to reclaim
in order to be my whole self. And it was
(11:31):
just such an insightful exercise that you offered. I think
everybody should should do that.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
It's so powerful, the missing element. The first book I wrote,
there's no astrology in it. I did that on purpose
so that no one that didn't believe in astrology wouldn't
read the book. And it's simply a description of the
four personality types that are based on every single system,
from the Enneagram to the human design to the gene keys.
Every single thing is based on astrology, so I use
(11:57):
the four elements. And then the second book was a
deeper dive into astrology, and it was all about astrology,
so I did kind of It's so Gemini, I did
do book. There's no astrology ont atrology. Go ahead and
take your FIP and the first if you buy the
first book from my website, I will stick your chart
in it. So I will actually calculate your chart and
put it in and you can and I'll mail it
(12:18):
to So the second book you have to go to Amazon.
You don't need to go to my website. But I
did do astrology secretly inside the book by sending everyone
their chart.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, both books were great, And actually you just brought
up a question that I've had since reading your book,
because I definitely was into the aenneagram for a long
period of time. To you, and I think some of
my listeners have been into the anagram, and I wonder
what the connection was. I mean, there feels like an
obvious connection between aneagram, numerology, astrology, but can you explain
in any more detail what that connection is?
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Which I love the anagram? What are you in the anagram?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
A four with a three wing. Huh. That makes sense.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
So in astrology it's so detailed in the aneagram, it's
the Christian mystics that wrote it. It's based on the
same system, which is understanding your soul's impulse and giving
you a permission slip. That's essentially what astrology is. It's
like when you were a kid and you'd go to
the teacher and say, can I go to the bathroom
and she'd give you a hall pass and I'd love
(13:14):
memory is so fun, and then you go outside Without astrology.
The enneagram or the gene kis certainly and the humans.
All of the systems are based underneath on the elemental description.
So the enneagram is really steeped in that most people
don't know how to marry the two because they're so separated.
And people don't want to learn astrology because it seems
(13:36):
so complicated. Where the edim my numbers and you study
the nine numbers and you go into depth. But it's
not so complicated. The way I teach it, I teach
it in a childlike way.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
I think that's what I was saying at the beginning
of our conversation. Even though astrology is it is complicated.
You know, I can see how that would be an
obstacle for people, But the way that you teach it
really brings it down to earth and helps it helps
me feel like I could engage with this and kind
of in some ways figure out my own chart. I mean, obviously,
like I'm so new at this, You're gonna be able
to see things in my chart that I'm not going
(14:17):
to be able to see. But I started doing this
to my husband too, who is like maybe even more
of a skeptic than I am. And I'll be like, oh,
that's because you know that's the Taurus and you or
that's your exactly your Satittarius rising or whatever.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
And it's the difference.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Between calculus and math. So astralle the higher level is calculus.
It's so abstract and it's so mathematic, and the simple
version that I teach is like one plus one equals too.
Like you you have fire, You personally have fire and air.
So if you have fire and air and that's a
combustive you you add air in the fireplace to the
(14:50):
fire and the fire gets bigger. Well, you add air
everywhere you go. You're like, let me ask you a question.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
I just was.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
I just underline that, well, hold on a thing, let
me just do this up. Your fire is your primary element,
and that's English. That's simple. I make astrology simple, and
I'm unfortunately astrology is bad pr Like people talk about
it like it's some kind of parlor trick. That's one
and then two. It seems complicated. It's not. But it
(15:19):
took me a long time. I mean, this has been
my life's work. And I'm almost seventy, so it took
me fifty years of doing this over. I mean, it's
really funny to think about when I started and I
was in high school. I just had my fiftieth high
school reunion and I saw all the kids and I
knew what their moons were because when I was in
high school, I was obsessed. So yeah, this life, I
(15:42):
had a mission.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Yeah, this has been calling to you and inviting youth, and.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I in love with it.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
It doesn't ever ever, Like skeptics are my favorite people
because I one reading for them and by the way,
I don't do reading, so don't ask me. But I
have trained. There's twenty four people that are certified by
me that have gone through a rigorous training, and I
do this thing called matchmaking, where they write in they
don't want to take the class. I wish that everyone
in the world would study, but they want a proper
(16:10):
reading with someone they can trust. So I do their
chart and then I look at the charts of all
my certified astrologias and I matchmake. It's like one of
my favorite things to do because I want people to
see the practical value. Yes, okay, so to your point,
it's not always predictive. It is assessing your personality.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
So I don't know how much of my personal experience
to share, but that was one of the things that
happened to me that really as an astrologer.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I loved her.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
She actually taught me so much and helped me to
find my way in astrology. And there were so many
things she said that that held true. But I think
because I was on this quest to build something, to
make something happen, and she kept saying, like, yes, all
the stars that are aligning for this, like everything's this
is the perfect moment for this to be happening, and
this to be happening. And she was telling me, you know,
(16:56):
not like exactly, this is what's going to happen next,
and this is the data's to happen, but kind of
like that's how I took it.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
And so then.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
When that endeavor fell apart and I suffered quite a
bit from the fall apart, I've had a hard time
making sense of that story in retrospect. And I wonder if, actually,
now that I say that, I wonder if astrology could
help me read writing helps you make sense of it.
So could astrology help me reframe what I experienced?
Speaker 4 (17:23):
This is the distinction between a good astrologer and a
less trained astrologer. Predictive qualities are absolutely dangerous because there
is the free will button, there is the unknown, there
is the lessons that are hidden behind the door that
you had to learn. Because one of your life lessons
clearly is partnering with people in understanding relationships. That's one
(17:46):
of your hardest things. So if part of your lesson
was to be disappointed, and that's in part, then why
didn't she say that?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Not that you yeah going to work?
Speaker 4 (17:56):
But I just aim at the lesson, I don't aim
at the practical concrete. There are certainly obvious times. I'm
thinking of a woman who is now I think she's
twenty nine, but I met her when she was like
fifteen young girl. Her mother came for a reading and
I looked at her chart and I was like, oh, oh,
this chart. She's going to be famous, this girl definitely,
(18:16):
And she ended up becoming the number one serf girl
in all of Hawaii.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
And her mom never stopped saying, never saw this when
you were a teenager. So there's an obvious loud messenger
when the sun is on the mid heaven, there's a
clue about fame. On the other hand, to your point
to say to someone your business is going to be
successful or you're especially when you're collaborating, because that's your
big issue this life. When you're working with people, they
(18:40):
will disappoint you. So that's a psychological truth about human nature,
but it's specifically true to your life. Lesson is how
do you partner without having expectations? Now that's not an
easy quest. And I simply in my astrology in our school,
we're looking at your purpose. You're like lessons your challenges.
(19:02):
We're not just looking at timing. Although that is a
big part of astrology, it's not my focus.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Okay, So I want to dive a little deeper into
that because if someone's wanting to take a look at
their chart. I mean, I feel like probably most of
my listeners, maybe not every single one, but most of them.
And I know I am in this place where I
know like the basic sun moon rising, but beyond that,
you know, everything that I'm learning in your book is
learning where my mercury is placed, and all of that
stuff is new. So if you were talking to someone
(19:29):
who you know had my preschool understanding astrology, where would
you have me start as far as understanding like my
what you just talked about, like life lessons, my life purpose.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
The first thing I would look at is your missing
element from the first book, and so you don't have
any water in your chart. So your life lesson is
your emotional body. And when you get caught either in
sadness or disappointment or being able to deal with your
inner world and wanting to not share it because you're secretive,
you're like, h, we have to go there. Your reluctance
(20:02):
or your ambivalence about the emotional content of being human
is your one of your big issues. So either you
cry easily or you don't cry at all, Which is it?
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Well, I cry easily, but I present as very put together,
cool headed, and when really in real life, I'm like
extremely emotional and yeah, and what I'll do is like
if I'm having a day where I'm just feeling like
really down or really I just shut the world out,
you know, and then when I feel better, then I
re engage.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
Yeah. So this is a classical story of water. When
it's not well developed, it becomes a secret, it stays internal.
This is my first book. The missing element for you
is water, so that you internalize and you secret, you
go off by yourself and you process with a stretch
would be for you to start letting the emotion's surface,
share them and tag them, accept them, rather than stuffing
(20:53):
them because it just creates symptoms, any pal symptom in
the body. I hate to say this, it's so dangerous,
is unprocessed emotions. And it's not necessarily like you stubbed
your toe and oh, it's not like when there's a
big symptom that it follows you around in your body
or it's been a hereditary issue. There's some unfinished processing.
(21:15):
Now can you process and make it go away? Not necessarily.
What you can do if you're missing water is put
your hands on your heart. Put your hand on your
tummy and go what am I feeling all day long?
And then you manage it lifetime What am I feeling
right now? And it takes a real effort for a
Jebedi to have her attention on her body rather than
(21:36):
going off by yourself and turning everybody away yes and
going yeah, but if you don't share, so your issue is.
And there are other people that have water as their
issue and they cry all the time and tell everything
and they overshare.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
They can't turn.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
Button, so the water is just swamping them and they're
moody and they're addicted because they're feeling overwhelmed and assaulted
by the human experience. So the missing element we're talking about,
and that would be the first thing in the very
first class they would say to you. So your job
would be during the day as a practice, what am
I feeling? And once that becomes a familiar land, this
(22:14):
is and we're going to go through all four of
them in the name of water. You'll notice that your
intuition increases. You pay attention to being disappointed before it
hits the point where there's Niagara falls wow, yeah, and
you see attentive in the moment and you become an
expert at tracking your own emotional body, and therefore the
(22:34):
symptoms don't required. The reclusion isn't necessary.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
The ability, yes, there's a.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
Big one for you to ask for what you want
forget about it right now.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
That gets so.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
There's the first thing you would learn in our school
is so, now let's say you're missing air. Let's just
use it for the audience. And how would you know that?
You'd have to go get your chart done. But you
can find out if you can't communicate. You don't use
the phone, you never answer your text, you don't on
a date. You have only a very few people around,
and you think that people aren't interesting, so you don't listen.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
That's no error.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
That's the opposite of me and you and they aren't
listening to this podcast about writing. Anyone that doesn't have air,
doesn't like to write, doesn't like to read. They find
themselves spaced out a lot. They forget things. And the
road of error is they take all these classes, all
these writing classes, but they never publish because they don't
get things done. Now that's the road of an excessive
(23:27):
amount of air. The high road is, oh, I figured
it out, Like you put your hands on your heart
and your tummy for the water. The air person makes
a list and goes, I have a deadline and I
can't let myself off the hook. And I took the
class and I wrote the notes down and then I
practiced it, and I went and took my reiki and
did it on someone rather than just taking the yoga
class or not. Because what air people do is they
(23:48):
study all the time, and they're all listening to your
show and they don't follow. Yeah, so they would learn
some skills based on our school of what you're going
to do to insert the medicine. If it's Earth and
you're really caught by numbers and money and you're organizing
and you're not good enough and you have this in
your chart, you're not producing enough, you're not making enough
(24:10):
what you're doing, you should be. You should is the
operative word. Then there's medicine for that.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Oh. The maunter is I.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
Always get things done, yeah, and I trust myself. Now
that's not true for most Earth people. They don't think
they're getting everything done and they don't trust themselves. So
I absert medicine and Earth people are bound by shulds
productivity and not making enough money They're big thing is
they should be making money. You have this one in space.
And then the third last category is fire. And if
(24:39):
you're missing fire, you've stopped having fun, you stopped having orgasms,
you stopped working out, you stopped going to the gym.
And you think you want to because when you were young,
you were so athletic, but now you've thrown that all
to the wind and you're not doing any physical activity.
And therefore one of the side effects of not having fire,
which you have quite a bit, is they get really
disappointed in life and grum so that the people that
(25:01):
go everybody's so miserable.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
I hate they.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Say all these miserable things, and they say him loud,
and they tell every politics and their point of view,
and how stupid the other party is, like would you stop?
And the medicine for fire is there is an off button,
and it's called knowing when to stop. Now a fire
person who's just like ready to get pissed off or
or so shut down, they lost their fire and they're miserable.
(25:26):
There's this button called stop and recalibrate. I call it
the observer. But when you're missing an element, it's the
most unnatural thing in the world. If I said to
you you have to cry in front of people, You're
like no, like that, it's not yes, But you have
to learn and this is called evaline and growing and
(25:46):
why we go to therapy.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
And yeah, I mean you put the nail right on
the head. And it also it actually answers my question
about how do I recontextualize and reframe the experience that
I had with that astrology, because I think a lot
of what's unfolded in the last fighters of my life
has been about overwhelming me with such sadness and loss
that I can't anymore, like in order to hide it,
(26:10):
I realized in the last couple of years, I would
have to completely remove myself from the world. There's just
been so much loss. So it's like I have to work,
I have to keep showing up, I have to get
on Instagram, I have to do the podcast. And I
can't just fake it, fake it, fake it, fake it,
fake it forever. And so it's like I'm it's almost
like the overwhelm was on purpose so that I could
(26:30):
no longer ignore exactly.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Got you nailed it? And when loss, when water is
the topic, the vulnerability, which is what water is because
it's tears. The vulnerability of water is disclosing. I'm scared.
I'm so sad, I'm lonely. I understand why I got
left out. I don't know why that death happened. I
(26:54):
never got over it. It's it's the permission. And I
as a therapist, you know, I sell rate. It's so
bad that I celebrate people's pain.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
It's terrible to say.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
I mean, as soon as someone comes in as a
client who's really in a deep state of leftovers, I
call it like the ghosts that never went away. Okay,
now I have a because I can really help you. Yes,
And that's what a good astrology session does. It's not
just talking. It's activating the emotions, questioning people's thoughts. It's
(27:28):
giving them permission to see how accomplished they are by
looking at the track I can see in your chart,
like your writing is compulsive, and that makes me excellent
at it because it's coming out of your heart. But
you don't see you know people that are listening you,
all you writers out there who love it. You can't
measure your success by being published. Yeah that's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Yeah, or you can, but you it will break your
heart because and I think that's some of what's happened
in my career. Some people would look at my career
and be like, she's been so successful. I've really written,
you know, I've written four of my own books. I've
gost written ten for other people. And I mean I've
done my books have done well in the marketplace in
compare like in the spectrum. But and you were mentioning
this about my chart too, like whatever I do, it's
(28:11):
never good enough for me.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
So in my head, I'm like, I've put all.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
This effort in, I've put all this work in, and
I've never been on the New York Times list. I've
never you know, hit the Wall Street Journalist.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
It's called moon and Capricorn. That's the way your emotional
bodies earth. And you're measuring your emotional success by results.
And that's not accurate. It's not the right answer. It
doesn't serve you. And until you rewrite the narrative that
you're you're hard drive is operating with the narrative that
says practicality describes success.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Yeah, it's like you were saying at the beginning of
the call, it's like if I can't point to it,
it doesn't feel real to me. And so it's like,
you know, I can get messages all day long from
people who say your words change my life, Thank you
so much. You've had such an impact on me. But
it's like, but I'm not on the New York Times
list yet. And it's funny because like so much of
my teaching to people is about out like, don't worry
about the numbers, don't worry about who's reading. Just write
(29:04):
with passion, right from your heart. And I believe that.
But then there's this other part of me that says, like, no, no,
your mercury is in Earth.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
And Taurus, your emotional bodies in Capricorn and Earth and Earth.
People need results. Until it's what I said earlier about Earth,
until you start repeating over and over again, I always
get things done. And there's another mantra for Earth, and
I'm much I'm doing much better than I think. Yeah,
but you know, it's it's a real the medicine. That's
(29:41):
why I think of the book. I don't believe in
astrology as medicine is this human psyche is built to
be mean to itself, don't.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yeah, it's such.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
A bad design.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
It's so true. Yeah, it's there's so many different ways
that we do that to ourselves. And yeah, I was
just thinking too about how you wrote about a moon
in Capricorn. That Capricorn is a tricky placement for moon,
I think you said because Capricorn is so I can't
mber how you said it, but it's so earth centered
and yet illnatant. The moon is meant to be your
emotional body. So it's like if you have their like
(30:15):
a contradiction to one another.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
And so and so you guys, everyone listening. Your chart
tells me what you came to learn. Now, the question
is are you learning it? I mean, that's a different conversation,
but I'm telling you now and taking level one, and
all you got to do is just take level one.
And our school opens in September, and jail only twice
a year, September and January, so there's one coming up
in January. It's just such a permission slip. It's it's
(30:41):
like the I get to watch, particularly women because our
school is almost ninety eight and my company, the women
that teach are all women. There's such a comfort for
me as a business owner because I too missed the
New York Times and I too, like, so what but
I have mercury to just like you. So I have
(31:02):
goals that are concrete, and I have written, and I'm
like you. I've written and written and written, and I
keep it at a drawer most of the time. Yeah,
I had a horrible You're gonna this is an unbelievable story. So,
like you, I've been writing since I was a kid.
I kept it in a draw never shared. It was
always a secret for me. I kept it in my
computer for hundreds of years. And then about two years ago,
(31:25):
I had a computer that I was giving away to
a friend because she needed one and I was getting
a new one. And I didn't know that on the
iCloud there's one button a warning that if someone unplugs
that button, every single thing in your cloud is gone.
And she did it, but she didn't go and I
didn't know. And then when I went to come back
(31:46):
to my computer and it was every single thing I
wrote was gone. And I literally cried like a like
someone had died. And my kids were one of my kids,
and he was like and I'm a grown up and
he's a grown up and he was like, mom it together.
I was like no, And after happened, which took a
long time to get over. I realized it was a
(32:06):
gift in disguise, ego to reduce the memory of being
someone special at the writing secret world and start putting
it out when I had it, And so I've changed.
But that was I hardly ever tell that story because
it's so to us, geminis what a tragedy.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Tragedy it is. I feel that in my bones. I
think I would sob for days of something.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
I was absolutely I know it was such a funny
thing because I was literally and I'm sorry that they
had to hear it. I was literally wailing. Yeah, And
then you know, it's so interesting, Like here's one of them.
I had written poems when I was a kid that
I had memorized. One of them was this one Once
upon a time when time was out of the question.
(32:50):
Once was all it took to learn a lesson, just once.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
That's gorgeous.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
I was a little person and it came.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
I mean, it's mind blowing to me. And I have kids.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
I have an almost four year old in the five
year old, and like the way that they're connected to
the truth of themselves and also to the truth of
the universe and the stuff that comes through their mouths,
and then hearing that you wrote that when you were
tiny and the same same type of thing. I mean,
I started writing when I was very young, and I
think back now to the things that I wrote back then,
and sometimes, you know, life is so.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Hard on us.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
I don't know if that's the right way to say it,
but I just feel like the loss, the heartbreak, the challenges,
the whatever, you know, you lose track of that part
of you that's five still that like trusts so deeply
trust that everything's going to be fine, and so I
don't know, hearing you recite that poem just as like
a way of connecting back to that version of ourselves.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
And I remembered I have like five of those in
my head that never went away, that were from when
I was Yeah, that was a good news.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
That you know, it speaks to to also the loss,
the deep loss of losing all of those writings. That's
part of the grief, I think is it's like the
connection to that part of ourselves that was so connected
to the universe.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
I'm I would say, I'm still connected. I have childlikeness
in a big way. Nobody believes I'm going to seventy
and you know, I'm a year and a half away.
And I think part of the gift of being a
Gemini I don't have Capricorn is that I have never lost.
I mean it's almost silly. I wake up every day
(34:27):
with like, like the colors, I'm looking at the colors
in my room, look at the art like I am.
I am in rapture. But that is my kid. Yeah,
I don't know what happened to me. I think I
ate the wrong thing or somehow, or I got the
wrong chart or something's wrong because I did not I
did not demonstrate the release of the innocence of seeing
(34:50):
every day brand new. I'm you know, in the Touro deck.
I'm teaching the Tureau right now on.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah, I noticed that on your on your email list.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
So yeah, And the first card of the Tuau deck,
the very first card is the Fool, and the fool
is the kid that jumps off a cliff. That to
your point, that just like so innocent, and that is
how I start the deck is you were an idiot
to sign up to come here because you didn't get
any instructions. They gave us nothing. And there's a fool
(35:19):
of innocence that can say willingly, I'm so confused and
this is so silly, and I don't really understand all
those lines. I don't understand that I need help, which
is one of your big lessons, the little fool going
uh oh, I jump and I forgot to bring my juice?
Can someone? Can you help me? And that innocence of
(35:41):
the fool. It's the same thing with writing.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
It took me.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
I know this is probably true for you. I took
so many of those writing classes where you write and
then you read, like before I ever wrote the first book,
and it helped me so much. Be the fool to
say I don't know.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Yeah, I mean writing even if you're if you're tactically
trained as a writer, even still writing and publishing, your
work has to have some of that energy to it.
You have to have almost like a naivete that I'm
going to just throw this out in the world and
people are gonna connect or respond or whatever. I love
that childlikeness about you. I think it's one of the
things that has drawn me to you, into your work,
and I wish I had more of that in my
(36:20):
life because.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
Your moones in Campricorn you're an old who's very practical
and grounded. I can't say the same. I mean I might,
but I had to learn. See that's the missing element.
I had to You came with Earth, and that's that's
a burden because you feel uber responsible and you're never
good enough. I didn't come with it. I had to
go look that, and that's what the Missing book, the
Missing Element really helped me when I figured out my
(36:43):
missing element and then which was Earth, and then cultivated
it and went, oh, and you're right, it's burdensome. I
see the veil, the downside of Earth. I can see. Yeah,
you're like, why is always not good enough?
Speaker 3 (36:56):
And just I take everything so seriously, you know, like
I wish I could just be like not be sin
serious about.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
It, like the fool.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah, a little bit of that would be would be nice.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
You can cook bait it. That's why my school's here
and how you're welcome to come allie.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
I'm gonna I'm gonna join in fact, and if you
can send me a link or have your team send
me a link, I'll include it in the show notes.
And you know, we'll specifically invite students to join us too,
because when I heard you talking about it. I was like,
this is a no.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Brainer for me. I've been wanting to learn. I've been learning,
and you.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
All learn it. You're gonna be so surprised because of
your we you and I both have tours. The simplicity
of it is what's going to feed you? And then
the complication of understanding your kids. Yeah, that's where the
tires hit the ground. We understand our children's charts. It's
a life changer.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Oh, I'm so excited for that. I'm because yeah, I mean,
understanding them is so essential to being the container in
which they grow up in a ball.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
When my son, here's my best story. When my son
came home. He was in like seventh grade, and he
came home and he looked ter. I was like, what
happened to you? And he was like all the teachers
put me in a circle and they got really mad
at me. And I said, what did you do? And
he said, well, I hit the bully today. I was like,
you are a double Eries.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
You didn't hit the bully.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
Who was going to hit the bully if not a
double Eries?
Speaker 2 (38:15):
If not you?
Speaker 4 (38:16):
Yeah, And then he's like, wait, you're not mad. I
was like, no, somebody had to hit the bully.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
I think you did. You tell that story in The
Missing Element.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
I feel like I recognize that story, but it's Yeah,
just the reason I love the story and love what
you're saying is it's the feeling of giving yourself permission
to be who you are and to not always have
to morph and change to be more acceptable and pleasing
to those around you, which I feel like I do
have done a fair bit of in my life. But yeah,
like making that list that I made as I was
(38:44):
reading The Missing Element, I was like, some of you know,
I could stand to bring back some of that, like
flighty forgetful writing poetry version of myself.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
Here, let me tell you the good news before we
finish here, because we're about done. Moon and Capricorn gets
better as they get older, and because they get fed
up with the disappointment, and because they get fed up
with not being good enough, they suddenly go throw their
hands in their ear and go, look that's what happens
age Really well, that fits.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
I feel like I'm getting there.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
It's like it's too tiring to you know, to live
that way anymore, so we'll move on to the night.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
I agree completely it's too tiring. For God's sake.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
Why do we have to be that person that's, oh no,
mad at themselves for doing everything right? It doesn't now
And I really want to just echo when my book
came out, and there's going to be a soft cover
coming out next year, which I'm going to do another
book launch, and they and I swear to you, I
spent too much money aiming because my Mercury's and tourist
(39:47):
for the New York Times, which of course, and I
really had to meet something in myself to your point
where I said to myself, Deborah, you wrote this book.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
With everything I had.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
I mean, I gave it everything I am.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
Yeah, And writing a book is like having a baby
times ten had a baby is nothing compared to writing
a book. And so I had to really catch myself
right after I spent all that money and call myself up,
which I was on the way in. I kept saying,
is this my ego? And the answer was.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yes, Yeah, I'm just right there with you.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
I know that feeling so well of putting you not
only emotionally put everything on the table, but then financially
put everything on the table, and to have it not
pan out is always disappointing.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
Now I want to read your books. I'm going to
find your books.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Well, I'll send you copies, give me, send me your
or have.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Your teams send good putting it.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Yeah, send me.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Your mailing address and I'll send you all my books.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
Oh, I'm so excited.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
I'm happy to get to share them with you. And
and I just I love your work so much and
I'm just so inspired by you. And I am going
to be joining your program in January because it's been
something It's just a no brainer for me. It's in
something that I've been wanting to learn more about.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Anyway.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
I've seen you launch it before. I've thought about joining before,
and for whatever reason, I haven't done it. So that's
the time, and we'll put I'll put links in the
show notes for listeners to join that and for both
of your books. Is there anything else that you want
me to link to or talk about?
Speaker 4 (41:14):
You know, I think the biggest is the school is
where the power is. It's only six weeks and it's
only like a two hour You're on zoom with only
ten people, so it's super intimate, and that is my
I love getting the gifts. It's funny, and the emails
after and the mail people mail me things. Yes, it's
like people's husbands write me back and say, she's so
(41:37):
much happier. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
That's so amazing. I love that. Oh cool.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Well, thank you so much for chatting with us and
sharing your wisdom. And I'm looking forward to learning more
from you and I will definitely send some of my
books your way. And I'm just so grateful to be
able to introduce you to our listeners. I know they're
going to learn so much from you too, So thanks
for your time.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Here's a secret.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
You'll be the first time telling this too. We haven't
told anyone this yet. In twenty twenty six, I am
picking twenty two women that I am going to personally
train because I stopped teaching ten years ago, and they'll
be going through a rigorous program to become an astrologer.
So if anyone's yeah, all you have to do is
write to info at Deborah Silverman Astrology and say I
(42:18):
want to be one of those. We're gonna vet them.
We're gonna look at their charts and we're gonna see,
like who has moon and camprigor.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Here's the upside chart.
Speaker 4 (42:24):
Who will seriously do the over and you would get
all a's.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
Yes, yeah, you know for sure, for sure that if
I tell you I'm going to be somewhere, I am
one hundred percent going to be there exactly.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Thank so, I will see you in January.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
Yeah, okay, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
I'd love it. I'm person. Thank you, oh, thank you
for everything. Appreciate you
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Host
Amy Brown
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