August 13, 2024 • 6 mins
Wellington-based writer Mark Derby spoke to BK about his latest book, Frontline Surgeon: New Zealand Medical Pioneer Douglas Jolly, is dedicated to telling the story of a wartime surgeon from Cromwell who influenced the way hospitals and emergency rooms around the world treat their patients.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Country Sport Breakfast with Brian Kelly on Gold Sport.
Joining me on the show now is author Mark Darby,
who has just written a wonderful, wonderful book about a
central Otago born surgeon called Doug Jolly, who was one
of the greatest war surgeons of the twentieth century, but
probably one of the most unknown war surgeons as well.
(00:24):
The book's called Frontline Surgeon and it traces Jolly's remarkable
career and he is an absolute character. Mark joins us
this morning, Morning.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Mark Morning. Brian, tell me.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
About this story and the story of Doug Jolly.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Right well born and raised in Cromwell, where his dad
was the local storekeeper, decided to study medicine at Otago
and then decided to specialize in surgery, which at that
time meant going overseas to get his specialist qualifications, and
he'd almost leaded them when the Spanish Civil War broke out.
(01:02):
This was like a kind of a little local drive
run for World War Two, and like many many other
people from around the world, he chose to volunteer to
support the Spanish government, which was being written by military coup.
He went over there to offer his services as a doctor,
(01:24):
as he was truly heroic. Everyone agrees on this. I mean,
I've had many accounts in various languages, because people came
from fifty different countries to volunteer as Jolly did in Spain,
and they've left accounts in Hungarian, in Dutch, in numerous
(01:48):
languages that I had to get translated of how humanitarian
this guy was, what a skill surgeon he was, and
how extraordinarily courageous he was. Would be falling outside, the glass,
would be breaking in the hospital window, and he'd be
performing a complex abdominal operation and it wouldn't flinch. So
(02:16):
he became legendary really in Spain for this sort of activity.
But immediately after the war, this was nineteen thirty nine,
he came back to Britain, which is where he left from,
and he chose to write a book about the experiences
that he'd had in Spain. He could see that a
world war was coming. There was pretty much no doubt
(02:38):
of it by that stage nineteen thirty nine. Like we
could see what Hitler was doing, what Muscellini was doing,
there was very little doubt that what had happened in
Spain would seem to be happening elsewhere in Europe. So
he turned out this book based on his experience of
dealing with warfare that's dominated by aerial bonding, as it
never happened before in history that they had been concentrated
(03:00):
real bombing on built up areas, cities and so on.
And he had gathered He gained this experience in Spain.
He knew that other people in other countries were going
to need it. They wrote this book. It was an
instant best seller in the States as well as in Britain.
And yeah, it's called Field Surgery and Total War. It's
(03:21):
a very good book, I believe it or not. It's
actually funny in parts. He says, when you know, when
a guy comes into operating theater and he's unconscious, it's
very important for search and carefully, or it's a search
his clothing because you know, when you take the clothing
off before you operate, check all the pockets, he said,
because it's very unpresent to be throwing, you know, burnt,
(03:42):
filthy battlefield dress into a incinulator and you've left a
hand garnad in one of the pockets.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
He obviously had. He had quite a sense of humor
because not only was an incredible war surgeon and a surgeon.
But I believe he was quite good to what invite
to parties.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, I lovely sing that, very much in demand to
sing songs at parties. He was known for performing the
Otago Boys High Hakka in the operating theater. When he
felt that his team, as nurses and so on, were
starting to flag we're getting exhausted or were feeling terrified
by approaching munitions, he would, he would, he would, he
(04:25):
would break into this hacker to reinvigorate them. They work, apparently, and.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Apparently, I mean his his feats and what he has
done is basically doesn't rate a mention in the official
war histories of either New Zealand or Britain.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Why that's correct. That's correct, And this really struck me
as surprising. There's a complex of reasons for it, Brian
and I try to sort of unpick them in the book.
One is that he wasn't entirely a New Zealander and
that he didn't serve with New Zealand forces. But he
also wasn't regarded as a brick because he he was
(05:00):
a colonial and he had a different accident as well.
The Spanish Civil War wasn't seen as a very legitimate
war to have served him later on. You know, he
wasn't serving on behalf of either Written or New Zealand
over there. He was an independent, as all of these
volunteers were, so that made it more difficult for the
(05:26):
military forces to recognize his earlier service. It was a
strange situation. But I have to say that other surgeons
who worked alongside him, particularly British guys, they went on
to have gliping careers in the National Health Service in Britain.
They got knighted, they got hospitals named after him, and
(05:46):
they said he was better than us. He was the
best he had, they said, And he got none of
that recognition, none at all.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
And basically all he's god, I believe, is a plaque
on the Cromwell General Store, which was founded by his grandfather.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, and that's better than nothing. We put that park
up in twenty eighteen. It was a great event. Actually,
his relatives came from around the country to after the unveiling,
and the Cromwell people were very good to us and
the plark is still there. You can go and look
at it.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Absolutely frontline surgeon. We could talk for hours about his
remarkable story, but I think people should get the book
Frontline Surgeon by Mark Derby. It's a wonderful, wonderful story.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Thank you so much, Mark, Thank you, Brian. Good to
talk to
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Mark Derby joining us on the show really is a great,
great story.
The Country Sport Breakfast with Brian Kelly on Gold Sport.
Joining me on the show now is author Mark Darby,
who has just written a wonderful, wonderful book about a
central Otago born surgeon called Doug Jolly, who was one
of the greatest war surgeons of the twentieth century, but
probably one of the most unknown war surgeons as well.
(00:24):
The book's called Frontline Surgeon and it traces Jolly's remarkable
career and he is an absolute character. Mark joins us
this morning, Morning.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Mark Morning. Brian, tell me.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
About this story and the story of Doug Jolly.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Right well born and raised in Cromwell, where his dad
was the local storekeeper, decided to study medicine at Otago
and then decided to specialize in surgery, which at that
time meant going overseas to get his specialist qualifications, and
he'd almost leaded them when the Spanish Civil War broke out.
(01:02):
This was like a kind of a little local drive
run for World War Two, and like many many other
people from around the world, he chose to volunteer to
support the Spanish government, which was being written by military coup.
He went over there to offer his services as a doctor,
(01:24):
as he was truly heroic. Everyone agrees on this. I mean,
I've had many accounts in various languages, because people came
from fifty different countries to volunteer as Jolly did in Spain,
and they've left accounts in Hungarian, in Dutch, in numerous
(01:48):
languages that I had to get translated of how humanitarian
this guy was, what a skill surgeon he was, and
how extraordinarily courageous he was. Would be falling outside, the glass,
would be breaking in the hospital window, and he'd be
performing a complex abdominal operation and it wouldn't flinch. So
(02:16):
he became legendary really in Spain for this sort of activity.
But immediately after the war, this was nineteen thirty nine,
he came back to Britain, which is where he left from,
and he chose to write a book about the experiences
that he'd had in Spain. He could see that a
world war was coming. There was pretty much no doubt
(02:38):
of it by that stage nineteen thirty nine. Like we
could see what Hitler was doing, what Muscellini was doing,
there was very little doubt that what had happened in
Spain would seem to be happening elsewhere in Europe. So
he turned out this book based on his experience of
dealing with warfare that's dominated by aerial bonding, as it
never happened before in history that they had been concentrated
(03:00):
real bombing on built up areas, cities and so on.
And he had gathered He gained this experience in Spain.
He knew that other people in other countries were going
to need it. They wrote this book. It was an
instant best seller in the States as well as in Britain.
And yeah, it's called Field Surgery and Total War. It's
(03:21):
a very good book, I believe it or not. It's
actually funny in parts. He says, when you know, when
a guy comes into operating theater and he's unconscious, it's
very important for search and carefully, or it's a search
his clothing because you know, when you take the clothing
off before you operate, check all the pockets, he said,
because it's very unpresent to be throwing, you know, burnt,
(03:42):
filthy battlefield dress into a incinulator and you've left a
hand garnad in one of the pockets.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
He obviously had. He had quite a sense of humor
because not only was an incredible war surgeon and a surgeon.
But I believe he was quite good to what invite
to parties.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, I lovely sing that, very much in demand to
sing songs at parties. He was known for performing the
Otago Boys High Hakka in the operating theater. When he
felt that his team, as nurses and so on, were
starting to flag we're getting exhausted or were feeling terrified
by approaching munitions, he would, he would, he would, he
(04:25):
would break into this hacker to reinvigorate them. They work, apparently, and.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Apparently, I mean his his feats and what he has
done is basically doesn't rate a mention in the official
war histories of either New Zealand or Britain.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Why that's correct. That's correct, And this really struck me
as surprising. There's a complex of reasons for it, Brian
and I try to sort of unpick them in the book.
One is that he wasn't entirely a New Zealander and
that he didn't serve with New Zealand forces. But he
also wasn't regarded as a brick because he he was
(05:00):
a colonial and he had a different accident as well.
The Spanish Civil War wasn't seen as a very legitimate
war to have served him later on. You know, he
wasn't serving on behalf of either Written or New Zealand
over there. He was an independent, as all of these
volunteers were, so that made it more difficult for the
(05:26):
military forces to recognize his earlier service. It was a
strange situation. But I have to say that other surgeons
who worked alongside him, particularly British guys, they went on
to have gliping careers in the National Health Service in Britain.
They got knighted, they got hospitals named after him, and
(05:46):
they said he was better than us. He was the
best he had, they said, And he got none of
that recognition, none at all.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
And basically all he's god, I believe, is a plaque
on the Cromwell General Store, which was founded by his grandfather.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, and that's better than nothing. We put that park
up in twenty eighteen. It was a great event. Actually,
his relatives came from around the country to after the unveiling,
and the Cromwell people were very good to us and
the plark is still there. You can go and look
at it.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Absolutely frontline surgeon. We could talk for hours about his
remarkable story, but I think people should get the book
Frontline Surgeon by Mark Derby. It's a wonderful, wonderful story.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Thank you so much, Mark, Thank you, Brian. Good to
talk to
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Mark Derby joining us on the show really is a great,
great story.
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